#56 热泵调试真实场景——以及难点所在，与韦斯·戴维斯和布莱恩·菲尼

如果这些资料找不到，经销商也帮不上忙，品牌方也不愿提供，那我就考虑换别家了。

If that documentation is not there, if your distributor can't help you find it, if the brand is not willing to share it with you, that's where I think about going somewhere else.

因为市面上确实有不少公司在这方面做得很好。

Because there are companies out there that are doing a great job here.

我希望如果有更多承包商都这么做，

And I'm hoping if we get more contractors doing that Yep.

就能向行业传递一个明确的信号：市场必须做出改变了。

Then that's gonna help send a very clear signal up the chain that, like, this has got to change in the marketplace.

我本来想稍后再聊这个，但韦斯，你提到了低温环境下调试的问题，

I was thinking we might get to it later, but I Wes, you brought up this issue of cold weather commissioning.

我们说的是热泵，可变容量的热泵。

We're talking about heat pumps, variable capacity heat pumps.

过去十五到二十年最大的进步之一，就是这项新技术让热泵在寒冷地区也能高效运行。

One of the biggest advantages in the last fifteen to twenty years is this shift to to these this new technology that's really enabled cold climate heat pumps.

我觉得我们应该深入聊聊这些在寒冷气候下特有的挑战。

I think we should get into some of these cold climate specific challenges.

我觉得最好从最基础的抽真空开始讲起。

And I actually thought it would be great to start with the most basic around evacuation.

当室外温度很低的时候，具体会遇到哪些问题呢？

And what are some of the challenges specifically when it's you've got a cold outdoor temperature?

我们说的是接近冰点的温度。

We're talking you're getting near freezing point.

在这么冷的环境下，从安装设备的基本步骤开始，比如抽真空，有哪些地方特别需要注意？

What are some of the things that we need to be thinking about from those basic steps of setting up a piece of equipment, like starting with evacuation?

主要问题是水分会结冰。

The challenge is water boiling off.

我在制冷管路里抽真空，这样能让水分更容易蒸发掉。

So I create a vacuum in that refrigerant tubing, that line set, and that helps create a situation where water can boil off more easily.

但外面一冷，水分还是更愿意保持固态。

But when it gets cold outside, water still likes to remain a solid.

吉姆·伯格曼拍过一个很棒的视频，他把一台设备放在室外，做了真空保持测试。

And Jim Bergmann did a great video on this where he had a system that was sitting outside, and he did a vacuum decay.

那密封程度简直严丝合缝。

It looked tighter than Dick's hatband.

把它搬进屋里暖一暖，天哪，这东西完全不对劲了。

Bring it inside, let it warm up, and, oh my god, this thing's way out of whack.

所以这是第一个难题。

So that's challenge number one.

具体要看情况，如果天气冷，但系统已经坏了，或者运行得不好，又或者虽然还在运行，但我打算提前更换——毕竟屋里还算暖和。

And depending on the situation, if it's cold, but the system died, yes, or was not maybe not operating well or it was operating, but I'm gonna replace it early retirement So the house is fairly comfortable.

这跟新房装修、房子从来没开过暖气的情况，完全是两回事。

That's a little different situation than if it's a residential new construction and the house has had no heat ever.

我们面对的管路都冻得透彻。

We've got line sets that are below freezing.

在现场把所有这些部件都暖起来，几乎是不可能的。

Trying to warm all of that up in the field is virtually impossible.

我相信肯定有办法解决。

I'm sure there's a way to do it.

干脆点火烧了算了。

Maybe set the thing on fire.

随便吧。

Whatever.

这确实是个问题。

It is a problem.

我相信至少在更换市场里，这个问题最终是能解决的。

And I believe it's one that can eventually be overcome at least in the replacement market.

我们还得再好好想想，但这确实是个不小的难题。

We need to give that some more thought, but it is that's a real challenge.

感谢吉姆把这个问题提出来，或者说是提醒了我们一下。

And thank you to Jim for bringing that to everyone's attention or or re reminding us, maybe.

我从来没看过哪个视频在业内遭到这么多批评。

I've never seen a video get so much criticism from the industry.

简直像他害死了谁家的猫一样。

Like, you would have thought he killed somebody's cat.

他就是拿那段视频去捅了森林里最大的那只熊。

Like, it was just that he poked the biggest bear in the forest with that video.

我真佩服他敢这么做，因为这事以前大家都是睁一只眼闭一只眼，觉得算了，随它去吧。

And I I applaud him for for doing it because it's something that's just looked the other way and, oh, it is what it is.

现在设备越来越精密、越来越先进、操作也越来越娇贵，我们不能再随便说‘我不在乎’了。

And we just can't with how technical equipment is getting and how advanced it's getting and how delicate it operates, We cannot afford to just say, well, I don't care.

这种态度已经不够看了。

Like, it's not good enough anymore.

真的不够看了。

It just isn't.

我觉得有一部分原因就是无知。

I was just saying some of it's just ignorance.

很多人根本不知道事情有多严重。

I mean, people are not aware.

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

真的吗？

Really?

我还不知道呢。

I didn't know.

我一直在尽力做到最好。

I'm trying to do the best I can.

我有微米真空计。

I've got my micron gauge.

我的真空泵上用的是大口径软管。

I am got the big hoses on my vacuum pump.

我以为自己一切都做对了。

I thought I was doing everything right.

天哪。

Son of a gun.

好吧。

Okay.

这下明白了。

Good to know.

谢谢。

Thanks.

提醒得及时，谢谢。

Thanks for the heads up.

所以是两者都有点。

So it's a little bit of both.

确实有不少优秀的空调技师，他们每天都在学习新东西，并且能马上用上。

There are great contractors out there, HVAC professionals, and they learn something new every day, and they apply it.

但可惜的是，也有一部分人还没意识到这个问题。

And there are, unfortunately, a bunch of those who just need to learn that lesson.

就这些了。

That's all.

对。

Yep.

从实际操作的角度来看，这个抽真空的问题，对吧？

And from, like, a practical standpoint, this particular issue of evacuation, I mean, this right?

通常的抽真空时间是以分钟为单位的。

This drives typical evacuation is usually measured on the order of minutes.

你会做保压测试。

You do your decay tests.

发现系统压力稳定了。

You see things are stable.

但如果在低温环境下参与抽真空，你降低的是管路内的水蒸气压力，水蒸气会瞬间结冰，这时候你实际上是在试图从固态冰里除湿。

If you're in colder temperatures and you're part of the process of evacuation, you're dropping the vapor pressure, you can go from vapor, water vapor that's inside the line set to instantly freezing, and now you're trying to remove moisture from a solid.

所以有时候你得抽上好几个小时，才能通过保压测试。

And so you might need to have that line set evacuated on the order of hours in order to pass your decay test.

如果你得站在那儿干等几个小时，才能终于给系统充氟，这确实很折腾。

And that's a big deal if you're standing out just waiting for hours and hours even get to a place where you can then charge that system.

这真是个大难题。

It's a real challenge.

那我们该怎么提醒大家，为什么抽真空这么重要呢？

And how do we remind folks, like, why is evacuation so important in the first place?

为什么我们必须把管路里的水蒸气抽干净？

Why do we need to get water vapor out of those line sets?

可别让你的空调系统变成化学工厂。

You don't wanna make the chemical factory in your HVAC system.

水分和制冷剂一混合，就会生成强酸，能把线圈和其他部件都腐蚀掉。

Moisture and refrigerant make wonderful acids that eat windings and all kinds of yeah.

这事儿可严重了。

It it's awesome.

你去问问科泊兰就知道了。

Just ask Copeland.

什么？

What?

水对空调系统来说是大忌。

Water bad in HVAC systems.

直接膨胀式空调系统。

DX HVAC.

听说锅炉还不错。

Boilers, I hear, is pretty good.

好的。

Alright.

这讲得真好。

So that was great.

这可是个大难题。

This is a huge challenge.

我确实建议大家去看看吉姆·伯格曼发的那段视频。

And, yeah, I I encourage folks to check out that video that that Jim Bergmann posted.

我们会把链接放到节目笔记里。

We'll we'll drop that in the show notes.

咱们聊聊充注方面的问题。

Let's talk about on the charge side.

低温环境下给系统加氟

Cold temperatures, trying to charge a system.

韦斯，你之前提到过无风管和有风管系统的区别

Wes, you alluded to this already, the issues around ductless versus ducted.

咱们能不能再详细聊聊这个？

Could we talk more a bit about that?

当然可以

Yes.

没错

Absolutely.

不管是无风管还是有风管，不管是变频还是定频系统，核心问题其实都一样

I would say that whether it's ductless, ducted, whether it's an inverter or a single speed system, the challenge is basically the same.

怎么才能确定制冷剂的量加得正好？

How do I verify that the charge is correct?

我觉得有个非常成熟、公认的标准方法，就是通过称重来确定制冷剂的充注量

I think there is a very well known, well established, well accepted procedure I can weigh in the refrigerant charge.

我敢打赌吉姆也拍过这方面的视频。

And I'm sure Jim's got a video on that too.

我们可能也有。

Maybe we do too.

称重加氟是业内公认的标准做法。

But weighing in the charge, well known, well accepted procedure.

加的量到底对不对？

Is it the right amount?

是厂家给的不够，还是加多了？

Did the manufacturer short me, or did they put in too much?

什么？

What what?

是不是有泄漏？

Do I have a leak?

我虽然做了压力测试，但关键是怎么确定自己操作得对不对。

Maybe I did my pressure test, but so the trick is knowing what's did did I do it right?

但很遗憾，目前我们只有在进入制冷模式后，才能确定该怎么操作。这时，制造商通常会给出一个明确的过冷度目标，或者其他制冷剂充注量的标准，用来判断是否符合他们的规格要求。

And, unfortunately, at this time, we don't know of a way to do that until we go into cooling mode, And now the manufacturer has a very specific subcooling target or some other refrigerant charge target that can be evaluated for compliance with their their specification.

对。

Yep.

明白了。

Got it.

所以，如果你在供暖季尝试做这个，外面可就太冷了。

And so, yeah, this is like, if you were trying to do it during the heating season, it's really cold out.

这时候你不是看过冷度，而是要看过热度。

You're instead of instead of subcooling, you're looking at superheat.

过热度会因为室内温度、设备运行状态的不同而大幅波动。

Superheat could be going all over the place in that unit depending on what the actual temperatures are, what's going on with the unit indoors.

对。

Yep.

就像你说的，如果是新建筑，室内可能有20度，室外却零下。

Like you're saying, whether it's if it's new construction and that the whole building is actually it's, like, 20 degrees inside the building and it's zero degrees outside.

还有这个热惯性，得等到系统达到稳定状态才行。

And that thermal mass, and it's gonna take oh, steady state.

所以不行。

So no.

你说得一点都没错。

That's exactly right.

这正是难点所在。

That's the challenge.

过去我见过一些公司，卖新系统时会附带维护协议，甚至覆盖两三年，这样他们就能等到另一个季节再回来复核。

And in the past, I've known companies that sold a maintenance agreement with the new system or maybe even for a couple of years, and it gave them a chance to come back in a different season to verify.

如果你要称量制冷剂的充注量，除非是厂家本身出了问题——不过他们的合格率其实挺高的。

If you weigh in the refrigerant charge, unless there was a problem with the manufacturer, which is I mean, they have a pretty good rate.

有时候确实会出状况。

Sometimes things happen.

我可不是说这种事从不会发生。

I'm not gonna say it doesn't happen.

但它们出厂时的合格率相当高。

But they have a pretty good success rate coming off the line.

我敢说，九成甚至九成九的情况下，只要你正确称量了制冷剂，用的是靠谱的秤，那就没问题。

And I would say nine times out of 10, maybe even 99 times out of a 100, if you weighed in the charge correctly, you've got a good scale, you're gonna be fine.

你能确认吗？

Can you verify it?

得等到夏天才行。

Not till summer.

我能给你一份安装质量认证吗？

Can I give you a quality installation certificate?

得等到进入制冷模式后才行。

Not until we get to cooling mode.

埃里克，我们加州有个QI认证承包商，他们每年会对所有安装项目进行两次调试。

Well, Eric, we have a QI contractor in California that they do their commissioning twice a year for their entire year of installations.

这是他们标准流程的一部分。

It's part of their process.

在销售过程中，我们会明确告诉客户，他们还会再收到一次上门服务。

It's communicated to the homeowner during the sales process, and that that homeowner knows that they're getting a second visit.

这叫调试服务。

It's called a commissioning.

就是专门花时间确认系统是否按设计运行，同时检查温控器或其他任何你觉得对客户重要的关键部件，这些检查可能在初次安装好几个月后才进行。

That's when the time is spent to verify that the system's operating the way it's intended and also review anything else, thermostat, any of the key things that they feel is important to view with the customer, and that might be a period of months after that initial install was done.

正如韦斯提到的，现在行业内公认的黄金标准就是：只要制冷剂充注准确，所有环节都规范，系统就一定能正常运行。

So to Wes' point, like, we know that the gold standard at this point that we could say across an industry is you could weigh in a charge and know that as long as everything is on the up and up, it will work.

这样你依然能为客户提供稳定的供暖和制冷，特别是热泵系统。

So you can still provide that heating and cooling to that customer, especially with heat pump.

对吧？

Right?

但有意识地、认真地做这些步骤，是我们流程中不可或缺的一部分。

But doing it with intent and being intentional with this is part of our process.

有人可能会说，这又得多跑一趟，成本也增加了。

And some would say, well, that that's another truck roll or but now I've got additional cost.

如果跟客户交代清楚了，而且他们为安装花了一万八到两万五千美元，那我真想不出还有什么不清楚的。

If it's communicated properly with the customer and they're spending 18 to $25,000 for an installation, I don't know what I don't know.

对吧？

Right?

普通家庭一辈子也就买一到两个空调系统。

Because average homeowner buys one and a half HVAC systems in a lifetime.

所以如果是第一次买，他们可能根本分不清，一次上门和两次上门到底有什么区别。

So if it's the first time buying one, I don't know if the difference between one visit or two visits as part of the package.

既然已经清楚说明了，而且我也认可了AI的QI认证，那还有什么理由不按这个标准来做呢？

It's communicated properly and I approve with AI the QI certification, why would you risk having it done any other way?

因为实际证明，这样做才能确保万无一失。

Because it's actually proven that it's done correctly.

现在我们开始看到，回头再上门检查已经变得完全可以接受了。

So we're starting to see that happen now that it's actually okay to go back.

就像Wes说的，我们能不能把这一步藏在日常维护里？

As Wes said, could we hide it in a maintenance visit?

当然。

Absolutely.

我们至少应该这么做，毕竟在低温环境下充注时，可以用加热毯。

We probably should at a minimum because even going back to that cold weather charging, you can use charging blankets.

有些人会用保温材料包裹管道，尽量把活儿一次做完，避免返工。

Some guys use duct blinds and try to get as much of that job done so they don't have to go back.

但有些情况是突破物理极限的，真的没办法强行完成。

But there's a certain limit where you're outside of physics, and you can't you just can't do it.

我们在亚利桑那那边也看到相反的情况，房子里面热得不行。

We see it on the flip side in markets in Arizona where a house is extremely hot.

外面高温，根本没法准确调试。

It's hot outside, and you can't commission it properly.

就是不行。

You just can't.

所以你只能让系统先运行几天，指望当初充注时剂量准确、操作规范，然后再回去复查。

So you have to let that system run for a number of days where you can only hope that you weighed in that charge correctly, did all the best practices, and then go back and verify.

我们现在正处在一个关键节点上，要不要鼓励这种实地调试的做法，尤其是针对我们刚才说的这些设备——它们必须一次做对，否则根本撑不了多久。

We're kind of at a crossroads with that of do we encourage that behave of an actual commissioning visit, especially with some of this equipment we're talking about, especially, like, it's gotta be right or it's not gonna last.

对。

Yeah.

把调试作为流程的一部分，这个想法真的非常好。

It's such a great idea to have that as part of your process.

我了解很多承包商都提到，最大的挑战之一就是改变经营模式：每个项目都要跑一趟，还得三、四个月甚至半年后再次回访，把调试变成常规流程。

And I know thinking a lot of contractors that we've talked with, one of the biggest challenges is like, man, making that change as a business that you're gonna go on every project, you're gonna go back three, four, six months later, whatever it is, to do that sort of as part of your commissioning process.

我们的建议是，不管你是想调整调试流程，还是其他任何环节，不妨先从小范围开始，比如每四个项目做一次，或者每五个做一次。

What we recommend, whether it's this kind of a change for commissioning or something else in your process, start with maybe do do it like one out of four projects or one out of five, whatever.

选个比例慢慢试，边做边学，你会发现，其实这根本不是问题。

Pick some fractions so you start to learn, and then you'll realize, hey, this is actually not a problem.

这其实是个机会，就像你刚才说的。

This is an opportunity like you're saying.

这是重新联系客户、深化关系、确认关键细节的好方法。

It's a way to reengage with the customer, further build that relationship, verify these key details.

这也能让你们团队更深入了解你们安装的设备，以及在知道之后还要回来检查的情况下，如何从一开始就更好地设置这些设备。

It's a way for your team to learn more about the equipment you're installing and how you might adjust your process knowing that you're gonna come back later, how you set up that equipment initially.

这样回头再跟进，就能真正闭环，确保你们在整体流程中获得宝贵的反馈。

And so it it really helps close that loop and make sure you're getting that feedback in your overall process by going back.

但先从小处着手。

But start small.

找个地方开始就行。

Start somewhere.

不用一下子把整个公司的流程全改掉。

You don't have to change the whole company full process all at once.

而且，埃里克，这个机会还可以再进一步。

Well, and even one one step further in that, Eric, like, that opportunity.

对吧？

Right?

大多数客户在安装后的头三年内就失联了。

Most customers disappear in the first three years after their install.

他们根本不会买维护服务。

They they don't buy maintenance.

对吧？

Right?

除非我们免费提供，还每年硬闯上门。

So unless we gave it to them for free and force our way there every year.

但通常他们不会参与，毕竟设备是全新的。

But, typically, they're not gonna participate because it's brand new.

我为什么要这么做？

Why should I?

所以很多人在第二到第五年都脱离了我们的服务范围，除非设备出问题。

And so there's this people like, a lot of consumers are off the playing field for years two through five unless something breaks.

如果我现在经营一家暖通公司，我一定会拼命想进这些家庭的门。

If I owned an HVAC business right now, I would desperately be trying to get into that house.

第二年、第三年、第四年。

Year two, year three, year four.

如果通过调试服务，我能多安排一次上门，借此和客户建立信任，用透明的报告向他们展示我来这儿确实带来了好处，我们就得做一点调整。

If commissioning was my gateway to do that by adding that second visit and create that bond with the customer and show them through transparency and reporting that good thing I came out to do this, we had to make a little adjustment.

现在我能让你看到，设备实际运行状态完全符合设计标准。

Now I can show you it's actually running exactly as designed.

真的吗？太棒了。

Oh, wow.

不错。

That's great.

趁我在这儿，我强烈建议你考虑加入我们的保养计划，这样我每年都能上门，确保你始终以最低成本使用，最大化你的投资回报。

While I'm here, I highly recommend that you do invest in one of our maintenance programs Because then I can do this every year and just reassure that you're gonna get keep the lowest cost of ownership, get the most value out of your investment.

这设备完全能用上十年、十五年，甚至二十年。

And so this thing does run ten, fifteen, twenty years.

尤其是现在。

Today, especially.

对吧？

Right?

我们现在处于维修还是更换的市场阶段。

We're We're in a fix versus replace market.

所以如果你在住宅市场有机会推销替换设备，作为承包商，你更得使出浑身解数留住客户。

So if you have a cherished opportunity to sell a replacement in residential, you better be doing everything you can as a contractor to keep that customer captive more than ever.

这同时也是销售过程中脱颖而出的好方法。

It's also what a way to differentiate during the sale.

我们经常听到一些人说，他们想打造的生意是那种坚持做对的事的生意。

We hear this all the time from guys who are like, the business they're building is one where they wanna do it the right way.

他们受够了总是输给那些报价低个三四五成的人。

And they're tired of losing to a guy who was three, four, five, whatever it was less.

因为commissioning的第二次回访，往往发生在你没法完美安装的季节，对很多人来说这成了风险。

The second visit for commissioning, because you're installing in time of year when you can't quite do it properly, a lot of guys are it's a liability.

我不想成为那个得跑两趟才能搞定的人。

I don't wanna be the guy who can't do it in one visit.

业主不会喜欢这样的。

The homeowner's not gonna like that.

这真是个独特的卖点。

What a way to differentiate.

一个报价低三千块的公司，如果现在没法 properly commission 系统，他们怎么保证系统以后能正常运行呢？

Like, how is this company who's $3,000 less, how are they promising to make sure your system is running right if I cannot properly commission it now?

我可以先让你用上，但我还想回来帮你做一次精细调试。

I can get it running for you, but I wanna come back to just get that fine tuned for you.

这其实是个很自然的问题，能让业主明白什么才是正确的做法，也让你和那些不认真做事的人区分开来。

Like, it's just such an easy way to ask a question that educates a homeowner on the right way to do things and create some gap between you and whoever's not gonna do it the right way.

我觉得这真是个绝佳的机会。

I think it's such an opportunity.

提一下保罗·麦休那个热泵播客的那期吧？

Do the plug for the Paul McHugh version of the heat pump podcast?

那期确实不错。

That is a good episode.

第45期，有兴趣的可以去听听。

That episode 45 for anyone who wants to tune in.

保罗·麦休对这个问题的讲解非常出色。

Paul McHugh does an exceptional job talking about this exact thing.

是的。

Yeah.

说得对，韦斯。

Exactly, Wes.

好的。

Alright.

这太棒了，各位。

This is awesome, guys.

我们已经大致聊了下你们平时是怎么做的。

So we've talked about sort of what you do at a high level.

现在来聊聊技术，看看怎么实际测量这些指标。

Let's talk about technology and how you can actually measure these things.

布赖恩，Measure Quick 是一个通用的调试平台。

So Brian, Measure Quick is a universal commissioning platform.

对于不太熟悉这个的承包商来说，最基本的工具包应该包括哪些东西？

For a contractor who's not super familiar with it, what's the minimum tool kit look like?

它能为他们带来什么帮助？

What does it do for them?

他们具体是怎么使用的？

How do they use it?

能不能再详细讲讲它是怎么运作的？

Like, fill us in a bit more on how that works.

简单来说，Measure Quick 是一个能连接蓝牙智能工具的应用，支持多个品牌，比如 JB、Field Piece、Testo、Yellowjacket、Mavac、Sauormont。

At a high level, Measure Quick is an app that connects to Bluetooth smart tools, various brands, JB, Field Piece, Testo, Yellowjacket, Mavac, Sauormont.

其实能列出的品牌还有很多。

Just I could list off many brands there.

它基本上不挑品牌，主要是一个诊断工具。

So it's brand agnostic for the most part, and it serves as a diagnostic tool, first and foremost.

你可以想象，当这些工具实时传输数据时，Measure Quick 就像一本活的暖通空调教材，在后台自动做诊断。

So imagine an HVAC textbook running diagnostics in the background when those tools are live bringing in data and information.

而且这一切都是基于科学和数据的。

So that and it's all science and data backed.

这不是ChatGPT那种东西。

So it's not chat GPT.

也不是靠谷歌搜索，去从一个早就出问题的行业里找答案。

It's not a Google question of trying to get an answer from an already broken industry.

我说它有问题，是因为我每天都能看到。

I'll call it broken because I see it every day.

我们刚才其实已经提到过这一点了。

And we just talked about it a little bit ago.

几乎所有的系统，只要考虑风量，都会存在影响性能的故障。

Almost a 100% of systems, if we take airflow into account, have a a performance affecting fault.

那我为什么还要把这种信息外包出去呢？

So why would I outsource that information?

对吧？

Right?

所以，只要我用 Measure Quick 应用配合我的智能工具，几分钟内就能清楚了解系统运行状况，比如过冷度是不是接近设备设定值，过热度和饱和温度怎么样，预估的风量如何。

So if I'm using my Measure Quick app with my smart tools, within a matter of minutes, I can actually have a good understanding of how a system is performing, whether my subcooling is even close to being correct to target of the equipment, what's happening with superheat, saturation temperature, estimated airflow.

甚至还能算出风机的功耗、CER、EER，还有热泵的 COP 值。

Heck, we can even calculate fan watt draw, CER and EER, COP on heat pumps.

这些功能全都能实现。

It's all capable.

再进一步，系统里还有标准化的操作流程，帮技术人员按步骤完成检测和调试。

And then take it one step further, there's standardized workflows that allow technicians to follow a process of testing, commissioning.

无论是热泵、空调还是燃气炉，都有明确的调试步骤，现在很多公司正急着找这样的标准流程，因为他们自己还没有。

There's an actual step by step process to commission a heat pump, to commission an air conditioner, a gas furnace, which a lot of companies are desperately seeking out right now because they don't have that standardized process.

他们有标准化的销售流程。

They have a standardized sales process.

公司里其他各个环节也都已经标准化了。

They have standardized everything else in their business.

但唯独团队的技术能力，他们一直没能成功建立起统一的标准。

But the last thing that they haven't really been able to tackle successfully is standardizing the technical competency of their team.

现在技工短缺，很多老一辈的技工都陆续退休了。

And with the skilled labor gap being what it is, a lot of folks are aging out.

所以我们必须加快年轻技工的学习进度，帮助他们快速上手，而我提供的正是这些工具。

So we now have to elevate the learning curve or escalate the learning curve of younger technicians, newer technicians to the industry, and I give them the tools to do it.

一套标准配置，如果是做制冷、调试热泵或空调，需要九个探头。

So a standard kit, if we're looking at a cooling, commissioning, heat pump, or AC, nine probes.

其中包括两个室内静压探头，还有两个温湿计用来测量温差。

So that includes two static pressure probes for the indoor as well as two psychrometers to measure temp split.

室外则需要五个探头：室外空气温度温湿计、制冷剂压力传感器和制冷剂温度传感器。

And then outside, we need five probes, which would be an outdoor air temperature psychrometer, refrigerant pressures, and refrigerant temps.

这九个探头加起来，才能完整评估系统性能。我经常问技工们一个问题：

So total of nine give you an actual full performance because a lot of times when I'm talking to technicians, I'll ask them, hey.

谁能计算过冷度？

Who can calculate subcooling?

所有人都会举手。

They all raise their hand.

对吧？

Right?

我就说，好吧。

I'm like, alright.

谁能计算显热容量？

Who can calculate sensible capacity?

没人举手。

No hands.

那潜热呢？

How about latent?

总容量呢？

How about total?

然后我切换屏幕，让他们实时看到过冷度对设备容量的影响。

And then I swipe the screen over and they see it live and see the effect that a subcooling condition could have on the capacity of the equipment.

因为如果你只在三个时间点做测量，就忽略了整个系统的动态变化。

Because when you just take three measurements in time, you're missing what's happening with the entire system.

你其实根本不懂系统到底发生了什么。

You actually don't understand what's happening with the system.

所以在调试这个环节，Measure Quick 现在是绝对少不了的，因为你没法作假。

And that's where Measure Quick in the commissioning sense, to me, it nonnegotiable these days because you can't cheat.

如果有真实、可验证的实时数据，你根本没法随便填个报告糊弄过去。

You can't pencil whip a report if you have live factual data that's defensible.

如果我是老板，我干嘛要冒这个险？万一被法官质问，凭什么相信技术员交上来那份答案全对的填表报告？

And if I'm a business owner, why in the heck would I risk that and be in front of a judge having to defend myself based on a pencil whip checklist that my technician turned in with the right answers?

对吧？

Right?

所以现在拥抱技术，比五年前、十年前容易多了，因为企业里技术的进展实在太快了。

So embracing technology today, I think, is much easier to do than it was, say, five, ten years ago because we've seen a rapid advancement of tech being implemented in businesses.

现在市面上各种花哨的工具太多了。

And there's a lot of shiny toys out there right now.

这些工具名字听着都跟人工智能沾边，但好坏参半。

They rhyme with AI, but there's good and bad parts to that.

这些工具确实不错。

You know, they're certainly good.

我们在MeasureQuick里用，但用得对路。

We use it in MeasureQuick, but we use it the right way.

对我来说，数字工具很精准。

So digital tools, to me, they're precise.

它们很准确。

They're accurate.

要是我用的那套老式歧管，一直搁在货车后窗那儿，软管都晒得老化了，还得靠敲三下表盘，凭感觉猜压力值，才能得出读数——这我可不敢信。

If I have an old manifold that's been sitting in the back window of the van and my hoses are rotting and getting sun exposure, and then I have to oh, I know what that pressure's right because I have to tap it three times on the side, and I've got the right reading.

说实话，我不确定。

I don't know.

现在我们处理的都是关键系统，太精密了。

We're now working on critical systems here because of how sophisticated they are.

这种事再靠老办法可不行了。

You can't just go old school on this stuff anymore.

而且用啤酒罐测温度根本行不通，我都找不到该怎么读数。

And beer can cold doesn't work because I can't even figure out where to get that reading.

所以善用这些工具，只是让整个行业更快地进步。

So utilizing the tools is just helping the industry get better faster.

这绝不会让行业变笨，我见过很多干了二十年以上的技术员，还在不断学习。

By no means does it make the industry dumber because I find a lot of technicians that have been doing this for twenty plus years are still learning.

至少我希望他们是这样的。

At least, I hope they are.

对吧？

Right?

我们不该停止学习。

We shouldn't stop learning.

我年轻的时候，还没手机和互联网呢。

I mean, I was around before the cell phone and the Internet.

但我依然得不断学习。

I still have to learn.

完全正确。

Totally.

布莱恩，你刚才讲的每一部分我都特别认同。

Brian, I love everything you just covered.

这本来就是你们推出的产品。

I mean, it's a product you guys have.

我想回到你之前提到的，我特别喜欢这些工作流程的一点是，它们会让你想起：针对你手头的这台设备，静态压力探头到底该放在哪儿才能测准？

I think the piece that just to tie it back to what you said earlier, what I really like about a lot of the the workflows is it reminds you for your particular piece of equipment you've got, where do I put my static pressure probes in order to measure static pressure correctly?

如果读数异常，系统还会提醒你，比如探头安装可能出了问题。

Gives you warnings if you're getting weird readings that are don't make sense, and maybe, like, there's an issue with how you set up your probes.

它不只是告诉你该把传感器放哪儿，还能让你明白：读数本身固然重要，但更重要的是它该在什么范围内。

And so not only is it reminding you of where to how to place these different sensors, it's also giving you a sense not just what the number is that it's reading, but where it should be.

光告诉你压力或温度是多少，根本没意义，关键得看这个数值是不是在合理区间。

Because, like, just telling you that it's whatever pressure or whatever temperature, that doesn't mean anything unless it's in context of where it should be.

这种学习方式真的特别有效。

And that's such a powerful way to learn.

最后再聊聊手写记录这个问题。

And then just the last piece about the pencil whipping.

确实，市面上有一些不守规矩的人。

Certainly, there are bad actors out there.

但我觉得这种人其实不多。

I think they're relatively rare.

我觉得更大的价值在于，我们都是人，手写记录难免出错。

I think more of the value is we're humans trying to write stuff down manually.

人总会犯错的。

We make mistakes.

你累了。

You're tired.

你只想赶紧把活儿干完。

You're trying to get the job done.

还有人为因素。

And Human ship.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

所以，有个工具能自动测量和记录下来，就能大大减少这种人人都会犯的人为错误

And so just having a tool that can measure it and document it for you just reduces that human error that happens to any

我们每个人

of us.

比如说，就连目标和范围，知道该做到什么程度，另一点是，如果你有个工具能帮你诊断问题，告诉你到底该从哪儿下手

Well, like, even, like, the targets and ranges, knowing where you need to be, the other part is if you have a tool that can generate diagnostics of where do you even gets like, where do you even start?

我知道哪里不对，但根本不知道从哪儿开始改

Like, I know it's not right, but I don't even know where to start to correct it.

还能远程实时串流，和维修经理或者别的技师一起协作

And to be able to remotely stream and collaborate with the service manager or a fellow technician in the moment.

对我来说，这才是真正高级的

And, like, to me, that's next level.

我跟年轻一代的技工，不管是Z世代还是其他年龄段的人，都聊过这个。

Like, that's what I talked to younger folks in the trades, Gen z, Gen x or not Gen x.

我们再也不想那样了。

We don't want that anymore.

但千禧一代、Z世代这些新人，他们从小就在科技环境中长大。

But millennial Gen z and newer, they were raised on technology.

他们理所当然觉得工作里应该包含科技，可我们却让他们从那些刻在石头上的老教材里学，用过时的流程上课，还丢给他们一整套模拟仪表，说：去吧，自己搞定。

They expect their job to include technology in it, yet we make them learn from old books that were done in stone and old processes in school that and we give them an analog set of gauges and say, go get them.

基础你当然得懂。

You need to know the fundamentals.

这不用说。

Of course, you do.

但同时，我也需要你今天就能上手干活。

But there's also an element of I need you to do work today.

那我们该怎么弥合这个差距呢？

So, like, how do we bridge that gap?

但问题是，我们该怎么跟当今未来的年轻人建立联系呢？

But, also, how do we connect with today's future talent?

你得接受现实，得走到他们身边去。

You have to embrace you have to meet them where they are.

我女儿今年22岁。

Like, my daughter's 22.

她从小就在科技环境中长大。

She's raised on technology.

如果让我女儿用老办法做事，她肯定会觉得无聊又沮丧，根本不想干。

If I had her do things in an analog basis, she'd be very bored and frustrated and not wanna do that task.

虽然从中能学到东西，但这种事我可不想天天做。

Even though there's a learning lesson in there, it's not something I'd wanna do every day.

我肯定会换一个行当。

I'd pick a different field.

这就是我的观点。

So that's my soapbox.

我想把 Measure Quick 和另一个环节连接起来，它能帮你真正量化你的调试检查清单。

I wanna bridge another gap from Measure Quick, which is gonna help you do like, actually quantify your commissioning checklist.

我想聊聊 ACCA QI 认证这件事。

I wanna jump over to that ACCA QI certificates.

Wes 我们之前提过几次，但我发现我们还没具体讲过。

Wes, we've referenced it a couple times, but I'm realizing we haven't talked about it.

ACCA QI 认证到底是什么？流程又是怎样的？

Like, what is the ACCA QI certificate and process?

就是这样。

There we go.

Brian 是这家公司的 CEO，也是首席鼓舞官。

And Brian is the CEO of that, the chief encouragement officer.

你们两位谁来解释一下都行，跟大家说说这到底是什么。

So either one of you guys can tackle it, but, tell folks what that is.

就是把 Wes 前面提到的 QI 流程和标准，搬到 Measure Quick 里数字化了。

So it's taking the QI process or the QI standard that Wes was alluding to earlier and digitizing it in Measure Quick.

所以你现在有了一个经过验证的标准化流程，涵盖了你的最佳实践，比如管路的压强测试、抽真空、保压测试等等。

So now you've got a tried and true workflow, which is highlighting your best practices, proper pressure test on your line set, proper evacuation, proper decay test.

在执行流程的过程中，你必须对自己提出的要求负责。

You are holding yourself accountable to doing those things as you go through the workflow.

你可以上传照片作为证明，但风量和冷媒充注量这些关键环节，还有风机的功耗，都是必须完成的项目。

And you can upload pictures to verify, but your airflow and your charge, those critical pieces of the system, fan watt draw is a requirement.

要获得ACCA QI认证，你必须用万用表直接测量电气数据，最好是带蓝牙的万用表。

You actually have to direct capture electrical with a multimeter, a Bluetooth multimeter to achieve an ACCA QI certificate.

而且在Measure Quick里，你的得分必须达到A或A+，这才是最高标准。

And it has to score an a or an a plus inside of Measure Quick, which is the best.

对吧？

Right?

你的安装工作就该做到这个水平。

That's where your install should be.

所以那些已经在用Measure Quick的人，要申请QI认证其实非常简单，因为他们本来就在按这个流程操作——我今天刚和一个客户聊过。

So those that use Measure Quick, it's a very easy lift for them to do QI certificates because if they're already following that process I mean, I just had a conversation with a client today.

他们已经在用 Measure Quick 了。

They're already doing Measure Quick.

这根本不用犹豫。

It's a no brainer.

但有些人在技术转型上还卡着，想拿 ACCA QI 认证，就得买新设备，还得培训团队，这负担可不轻。

But some of those that have to cross the chasm of technology adoption, and I wanna do ACCA QI, and now I've gotta get a tool investment, and now I've gotta train my team, that's where there's a heavy lift.

对吧？

Right?

我不会忽视这个问题。

And I'm not gonna ignore that.

这对公司来说可能是个不小的投入。

That could be a big ask for a company.

但你看看返工率的下降，Measure Quick 的用户早就反复证明了，返工率能大幅降低。

But when you look at reduction in callbacks, you know, it's been proven over and over again in Measure Quick land that callbacks are drastically reduced.

我们最好的用户，返工率普遍降到了百分之二到五。

We see our best users down to two to 5% callbacks across the board.

我现在看到的实际情况是，市场上有二三十家在做。

What I see the reality is 20 to 30 in the market right now.

这规模可不小。

So That's huge.

而且这笔钱的数额相当可观。

And that's a big dollar value.

你要是算一笔账，我有个客户，今年夏天我给他做过培训。

When you quantify that I mean, I've got a client that I did some training for over the summer.

他们一年的返工成本高达34.4万美元。

Their callbacks cost them $344,000

天哪。

Wow.

一年。

A year.

这笔钱足够买不少工具了。

So you can buy plenty of tools

是的

Yeah.

还得提供大量培训，带来一堆麻烦、痛苦，还得硬拉着人把活儿干完。

And provide plenty of training and headaches and anguish and dragging people across the finish line to get the work done.

但归根结底，只要我能帮客户解决这个问题，减轻他们一直忍受的风险，那这笔账就值了。

But at the end of the day, if I can impact that for a customer and mitigate that risk that they just live with, then I mean, the math works.

就是害怕改变。

It's the fear of change.

对吧？

Right?

我在研讨会上也提过这个，就是技术员的接受度问题。

I talked about this at the symposium, technician adoption.

我们公司在推动变革这方面其实挺差的，怎么让团队转变、怎么让团队进化，我们老是从上往下硬推，效果根本没发挥出来。

It it was we kinda stink at doing it in the company, like, how to change our team or how to get our team to evolve because we sometimes look at it from a top down approach and it's just not as effective as it could be.

这真很有说服力。

That's super compelling.

质量认证证书其实就是一张纸，或者是个PDF文件而已。

A QI certificate is really just a piece of paper or maybe a PDF.

但它代表的意义可远不止这些，而且它用一种很简单的方式就做到了这一点。

But what it represents is a whole lot more, and it does it in a simple way.

对于消费者来说，我的意思是，如果你给他们看图片，再给他们看具体的测量数据，这样他们就能明白了。

Consumers I mean, if you show them pictures and if you show them measurements, okay.

那又怎样呢？

What?

不过，如果你拿到了质量安装证书，那就能简化成一句非常非常简单的声明：我符合某项标准的要求。

I but if you've got a quality installation certificate, it boils it down to a very, very simple statement that I met the requirements in a standard.

我们墙上大概都挂着一张文凭，那张纸对我们来说代表着为了拿到它或者那个认证所付出的努力。

We've all probably got a diploma hanging on the wall, and that piece of paper represents something to us for what we had to do to get that or that certification.

质量安装证书也是一样的道理。

A QI certificate is no different.

它不过是一张纸或者一个PDF文件，但它所代表的关于你和你公司的形象，以及它代表了我推荐谁来你家修系统，这分量可重了。

It's just a piece of paper or PDF, but what it represents about you and your company, what it represents about who I'm gonna recommend, go to your house to fix your system, huge.

太棒了。

Love it.

好的。

Alright.

这真是对 Measure Quick 和 ACCA QI 认证的强力背书。

That is an incredible endorsement for both Measure Quick and the ACCA QI certificate.

我可不想被人说成是故意找茬，但咱们这可是热泵播客。

I do not wanna be accused of gotcha journalism, but this is the heat pump podcast.

你们之前提过好几次了。

And you referenced it a couple of times, guys.

既然聊的是热泵，那 Measure Quick 和 ACCA QI 现在能用在哪些场景？

So if you're doing heat pumps, where is Measure Quick and ACCA QI ready to go?

还有哪些热泵应用我们正在推进，但还没完全搞定？

And what heat pump applications are we working on but not quite there yet?

对。

Yes.

哦，太好了。

Oh, good.

回答得真棒。

Excellent answer.

大家一定会喜欢这个，布莱恩。

Everyone the the audience is gonna love that, Brian.

所以。

So

我们来聊聊寒冷气候下的变频热泵系统。

there's certain let's talk cold climate or inverter driven heat pump systems.

那些现在有高低压测试口、能检测压力和温度的，比如风管式系统，我们今天已经能做到。

Those that currently have high pressure, low pressure taps and be able to verify pressures and temperatures, call it a ducted system, we're there today.

我不是要点名具体品牌。

Not to call out brands.

我想到的是迪克和菲特。

I mean, Dike and Fit is what comes to mind.

在我看来，这个品牌是安装热泵最流行的之一，我以前也做过不少这类设备，完全可以用Measure Quick和ACCA QI来调试。

To me, that's a very popular brand that heat pump installed, and and I I personally worked on those in the past, and they that is very much capable of being commissioned with Measure Quick and ACCA QI.

其他一些品牌呢？

Some of the other brands.

对吧？

Right?

我们接下来要往哪个方向走？

Where are we going?

未来会怎样？行业标准迟早会统一，相信我，这一定能行。

What's the future hold that coming up with that industry standard of the weigh it in and trust me, it's gonna work.

这正是我们想解决的问题，我相信Wes也想解决它。

That's a problem that I feel we'd like to solve, and I think Wes would like to solve as well.

如果让我打赌，我觉得这完全有可能。

So if I had the bet, I'd say that's possible.

对吧？

Right?

还有那种标准品牌的热泵，就是传统的热泵，不是变频的那种。像特灵的XV系列，虽然能变频，但整体还是传统设计。

And standard brand heat pump, like, traditional heat pumps, not talking the invert like, you've got brands like Trane that have a x v series product that can do its inverter, but it's a traditional design.

这种机型完全没问题。

Like, those work.

一点问题都没有。

No problem.

目前来说，热泵市场中很大一部分已经完全可以实现兼容QI和MeasureQuick了。

So, like, as far as a I'd say a significant part of the heat pump market is possible today.

这些机型都能顺利适配QI和MeasureQuick。

Like, that can all be achieved for QI and MeasureQuick.

真正有挑战的是那些新型号，或者说是只支持‘称重’功能的机型。

It's those that newer style, I guess, I'll call it, or the weigh in only is the challenge.

还有无管机也是个问题。

Ductless is another.

你怎么把九个探头装到无管热泵上？

How do I put nine probes on a ductless heat pump?

我没有。

I don't.

对吧？

Right?

但无管式热泵有一些关键点，比如彻底抽真空、准确加氟、确保温差合适——只要我知道设备的容量，再保持滤网清洁就行。

But there's critical things on a ductless heat pump, such as proper evacuation, proper weigh in charge, making sure the temp splits right as long as I know what capacity I am, and then keeping that filter clean.

要让无管式系统正常运行，其实并没有特别复杂的流程，但一旦一个室外机接了多个室内机，比如四个室内机，事情就变复杂了。

So there's not a lot of overly complicated process behind making sure a ductless system would work properly, but it gets complicated when you have multiple heads and you've got now four heads on one outdoor.

你得搞清楚里面到底发生了什么。

There's understanding what's happening there.

这些问题都在我们的关注范围内。

So it's all on the radar.

现在发展得太快了，很多人其实都有点应付不过来。

It's hitting really fast and furious, and a lot of people are in, I think, in over their heads right now.

我们得解决这个问题。

We need to solve that problem.

每家公司都不太一样。

Every company's a little bit different.

对大多数公司来说，产品组合中，Measure Quick 和 QI 认证大概能覆盖他们安装和维护的 85% 的系统。

The product mix I would say, for most companies, Measure Quick and the QI certificate is gonna be applicable to 85 of the systems they install and service.

我同意这个说法。

I agree with that.

很有帮助。

Very helpful.

其实是 84.7%，不过我给凑了个整。

It's actually 84.7, but I rounded up.

谢谢你的说明。

Thanks for the clarification.

这个小数点真的挺关键的。

That actual decimal point really matters.

对。

Yeah.

一开始你讲得挺通俗的，后来又突然专业起来，这感觉真不错。

Well, I appreciate you dumbed it down at first, and then you kinda nerd it out at the second.

这种节奏搭配得刚刚好，Wes。

So it was a really nice combo there, Wes.

好的。

Alright.

Brian和Wes，今天聊得非常有收获。

So Brian and Wes, this has been great.

最后我还想问你们一个问题，帮我们做个总结。

I've got one final question for you to kinda help wrap up the conversation here.

我们已经聊了很多内容了。

We've covered a lot of ground.

如果能用魔杖改变一件事——或者两件事——关于变频热泵调试的方式，你们会改什么？

But if there was a magic wand that you could wave that would change one, maybe two things about the commissioning approach, particularly for inverter based heat pumps, what would it be?

Brian，我先点你来回答。

Brian, I'll I'll pick on you first.

我先来。

Me first.

如果你

If you're

愿意试一试的话。

ready to give that a shot.

我想再提一下我之前说过的制造商的问题。

I'm gonna go back to the OEM comment that I made earlier.

我觉得我们这个行业严重缺乏协作，导致这些产品每天都没法被正确安装。

I feel that there is a a huge lack of collaboration in our industry to ensure that this product is being put in properly every single day.

我特别希望看到更深入的协作，尤其是通过诊断工具，来弥合技术人才培训方面的缺口。

I would love to see collaboration at a much deeper level with diagnostic tools that help bridge that gap of workforce development at the same time.

我觉得他们的本意并不是忽视这个问题。

Like, I think that would be my wish is I don't think they ignore it per se.

只是他们跟现场实际发生的情况脱节了，而这正是让我们的行业名声受损的根本原因，一直如此。

I just think that that detached from what's actually happening every day in the field, and that's what's given our industry a bad name and it always has.

除非在那个层面有所改变，否则我看不出情况会有什么好转。

And I don't see it getting any better unless something changes at that type of level.

所以我想得有点大，但这就是我会做的事。

So I'm going kinda big for that, but that's what I would do.

如果可以的话，我会把调试——不管你怎么叫它、怎么定义它——变成常态，而不是例外。

If I could, I would make commissioning, whatever you wanna call that, however you wanna define that, the standard, not the exception.

真遗憾，他们居然还给系统做了调试。

It is unfortunate that, oh my goodness, they commissioned the system.

这事儿其实特别棒。

It's this thing that's amazing.

这本来就应该成为标准流程。

That should be standard practice.

你做到什么程度了？

How far you go?

你们会做风管漏风测试吗？

Are you doing duct leakage testing?

你们会做风量平衡吗？

Are you air balancing?

哦。

Oh.

但你们至少是正确安装设备的吧？

But are you just installing the equipment correctly?

这台机组实际输送的风量，是不是跟我在Amply里做的负荷计算结果一致？

Is the unit moving the right amount of air through it based on my load calculation I did with Amply?

还是制冷剂充注量对不对？

Or is it the right charge?

如果供电正常的话，我记得有个承包商跟我说过，他刚装了一套高端机组，位置特别偏，是整条电路最后一户人家。

Is it the right if I got power I remember a contractor telling me brand new install high end unit, and it was out in the hinterlands, and it was the last house on the electric line.

结果电压低得离谱。

And they were getting, I don't know, stupid low voltage.

可这是一台全新的高速机组啊。

Here's this brand new high speed unit.

它本该解决所有问题，结果却出故障了。

It's gonna solve all the problems, and it's broke.

这到底是怎么回事？

What's going on?

哦，我们测了电压。

Oh, well, we measured the voltage.

得叫电力公司的人来一趟，确保输入电压符合标准。

We've gotta get the power company out here to do that, to make sure we get the right amount of input voltage.

这才是确保我们工作做对的机会，但这需要一些业主转变观念。

The opportunity to ensure that we're doing our job right, And that's gonna take a change of mindset from some owners.

要实现这一点，我们需要调整思维方式，把这套流程融入日常运营中。

It's gonna take a change of mindset to figure out how we're gonna accomplish this, how we're gonna work this into our operations.

是在安装时就做吗？

Do we do it at the time of install?

还是过几天、几个月后再回来检查？

Do we come back a couple days later, a couple months later?

有些问题还需要解决。

There's problems to be overcome.

但我最想说的是，把调试流程变成标准做法。

But my one thing would be to make commissioning the standard.

这样制造商才会信任暖通专业人员能做好工作，也可能更愿意分享信息，让这些资料更公开。

And then manufacturers will trust HVAC professionals to do the job right, and maybe they'll be a little more free to share that information and make it more available.

我同意。

I agree.

目前我们只能用脚投票，但确实存在信任危机，必须打破。

We we need to vote with our feet at the moment, but we have a trust issue that we need to overcome.

我觉得，把工作做扎实，做好调试，就是解决这个问题的关键起点。

And I think that doing our job right and commissioning is a piece of that, is a great place to start.

你们俩在整个节目里的回答都非常精彩。

Awesome answers, both of you throughout the entire episode.

Brian，Wes，感谢你们参加《热泵播客》。

Brian, Wes, thank you both for joining the Heat Pump Podcast.

谢谢各位。

Thanks, guys.

很高兴能来。

Glad to be here.

谢谢你们邀请我们。

Thank you for having us.

真的很棒。

It was great.

谢谢大家。

Thanks, guys.

感谢收听热泵播客。

Thanks for listening to the Heap Pump Podcast.

本节目由Amply Energy制作。

It is a production of Amply Energy.

请留意，节目中表达的观点均来自我们的嘉宾或我们自己，视具体发言者而定。

And just a reminder that the opinions voiced were those of our guests or us, depending on who was talking.

如果你喜欢刚才听到的内容，还没订阅的话，欢迎在你常用的播客平台订阅我们。

If you like what you've heard and haven't subscribed, please subscribe in your favorite podcast platform.

我们很期待听到你的反馈，随时欢迎联系我们。

We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to reach out.

你可以再次通过 hello@Amply.energy 联系到我们。

You can reach us once again at hello@Amply.energy.

注意是 dot energy，不是 dot com。

No dot com just dot energy.

非常感谢。

Thanks a lot.