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Harvest 系统把家里90%的供暖和热水需求，全都安排在最节能的时间段运行。
Harvest is shifting 90% of the heating and hot water load of the home to whenever is most efficient.
从成本角度，还有电网的角度来看都是这样。
And from cost perspective, from a grid perspective.
我们谈的是家里绝大部分的能源消耗。
And we're talking about most of the energy use of the home.
对吧？
Right?
你想想供暖和热水，平均下来占家里总耗能的六成左右。
When you think about heating and hot water, that's on average about 60% of the energy use in the home.
我们移动的负荷量非常大，比如燃气灶虽然重要，但耗能其实微不足道。
We're shifting a huge amount of load, like when you think of your gas stove, that's important, but it's very small in terms of energy use.
供暖和热水才是家里耗能的‘巨无霸’，而我们正在全面调整它们的用电时间。
Heating and hot water are kind of the Goliath in terms of energy use in your home, and we're shifting all of that.
这意味着，每个 Harvest 系统每天相比普通热泵，都能转移大约十到十一千瓦时的用电量。
What that means is each harvest system every day, when you compare it to a regular heat pump, is shifting about 10 or 11 kilowatt hours of electricity.
如果和电热元件系统相比，我们每天能将多达35千瓦时的用电量，灵活调整到最合适的时段。
When you compare it to an electric resistance system, we're shifting upwards of 35 kilowatt hours of electricity to whenever makes the most sense.
大家好。
Hey, everyone.
在这个播客里，我们几乎只采访创业者、创始人和首席执行官。
On this podcast, we pretty much only interview entrepreneurs, founders, CEOs.
很多时候，这些人都是一线施工人员，做得非常出色。
Often, those are contractors doing remarkable work.
但我们也很喜欢聊那些与施工人员密切相关的创业者。
But we also love talking to the entrepreneurs who are adjacent to contractors.
他们可能是为施工人员提供服务的，也可能是直接服务业主的。
Maybe they're serving contractors, maybe they're serving homeowners.
今天我们就请到了Harvest Thermal的联合创始人Jane Melia博士。
That's what we do today with doctor Jane Melia, cofounder of Harvest Thermal.
Jane是博士出身，长期痴迷于能源领域。
Jane's a PhD and a long time energy nerd.
她想要一台热泵。
She wanted a heat pump.
她知道这是最节能的选择，但后来她看到了一个再也无法忽视的问题。
She knew it was the most efficient option, but then she saw something she couldn't unsee.
她住的地方冬季供暖需求远大于制冷，她明白热泵在白天温度最高的时候运行效率最高，可偏偏那时候她根本不需要供暖。
Her biggest load was heating, not cooling based on where she lives, and she knew her heat pump would run most efficiently in the middle of the day when it's warm out, exactly when she didn't need heat where she lives.
她真正需要的是晚上九点或者凌晨五点。
She needed it at 9PM or 5AM.
这种时间错配每天都在浪费效率，而大多数人早就习惯了忍着。
That gap costs you efficiency every day, and most of us have just learned to live with it.
但简和她丈夫都是工程师，他们不想就这样忍下去。
But Jane and her husband are both engineers, and they didn't wanna live with it.
于是她设计了一套系统，彻底消除了这个矛盾。
So she built a system that erases that trade off.
她把热泵和储水式热水器结合起来，用水箱当热能电池，把热量存起来。
She paired a heat pump with a hot water heater using that water tank as a thermal battery, a place to store the heat.
所以她的系统在电价最低、电力最清洁的时候运行，然后在家中需要热量时再释放出来，间隔可能长达十二小时甚至更久。
So her system runs when energy is cheapest and cleanest, and then delivers the heat whenever the home needs it, which could be twelve hours apart or more.
我们和简聊了聊，这对安装人员意味着什么。
We talk with Jane about what that means for contractors.
对你在厨房里向客户推销时、安装过程中，以及对住户的账单和舒适度，又有什么影响。
What it means for you at the kitchen table when you're selling, at during install, and then what it means for the homeowner and their bill and comfort.
我觉得这会让你重新思考，什么叫真正的高效热泵，甚至什么叫真正有差异化的设备。
I think it's gonna make you reconsider what an efficient heat pump even means, and frankly, what differentiated hardware means.
我的很多客户都是安装公司，他们和所安装的原厂品牌绑定得很深。
So many of my customers are contractors, and they are deeply tied to the OEM brand they install.
这期节目可能会让你开始怀疑，这个品牌真的和别的主流品牌有本质区别吗？
This episode is likely to make you ask, is that brand actually differentiated from the other incumbent brands?
这期节目特别有意思。
Super interesting episode.
希望你会喜欢。
I hope you enjoy it.
在开始之前，先插个广告。
And before we start, one plug.
埃里克开发了一个培训课程，叫《如何设计一个不会让你后期头疼的热泵系统》。
Eric has a training he's developed called how to design a heat pump system that will not come back to haunt you.
我们的朋友三菱正在为埃里克举办一场网络研讨会，任何人都可以参加。
Our friends at Mitsubishi are hosting a webinar for Eric to give it, and it's open to anyone.
他会讲几个重点。
He'll cover a few things.
第一，快速核实家中手动J计算的假设是否准确。
One, verifying your Manual J assumptions in the home quickly.
第二，正确应用手动S来匹配变频系统。
Two, applying Manual S the right way for variable speed systems.
第三，什么时候该用辅助电加热，什么时候用双燃料，什么时候根本不需要额外加热。
Three, when to use strip heat versus dual fuel versus nothing at all.
第四，不同地区容易被忽略的运行成本陷阱。
Four, the hidden operating cost traps by region of the country.
最后但同样重要的是，几个真实的案例，让这些内容活起来。
And last but not least, a few real world case studies to bring it to life.
这场培训定在2026年6月18日，具体看你什么时候听到这段话。
That training is 06/18/2026, depending on when you're listening to this.
6月18日下午两点，东部时间。
It's June 18 at 2PM eastern.
注册链接在节目笔记里。
The link to register is in the show notes.
我们很期待你在现场。
We'd love to see you there.
好了。
Alright.
希望你们喜欢我们的对话。
Enjoy our conversation.
医生。
Doctor.
简·梅莉亚
Jane Melia.
你好
Hi.
欢迎收听热泵播客
And welcome to the heat pump podcast.
我是埃德·史密斯
I'm Ed Smith.
我是埃里克·菲茨
And I'm Eric Fitz.
我们是Amply Energy的联合创始人
We are cofounders of Amply Energy.
今天，我们请到了一位医生
Today, we have Doctor.
简·梅莉亚
Jane Melia.
她是 Harvest Thermal 的首席营收官兼联合创始人。
She's the Chief Revenue Officer and cofounder of Harvest Thermal.
Harvest 公司推出了一种他们称之为智能热能电池的产品。
Harvest makes what they call a smart thermal battery.
这套系统把超高效热泵和热能存储结合起来，提供供暖、制冷和热水。
It's a system that combines an ultra efficient heat pump with thermal storage to deliver heating, cooling, and hot water.
他们的做法已经引起了广泛关注。
Their approach is getting some serious attention.
他们被《时代》杂志评为顶级绿色科技公司之一。
They are one of Time Magazine's top green tech companies.
他们还入选了《快公司》最具创新力企业榜单，并获得了加州能源委员会 165 万美元的资助。
They're one of Fast Company's most innovative companies, and they got a 1,650,000 grant from the California Energy Commission.
最重要的是，针对我们节目的听众——主要是承包商——你们正与全国各地的承包商合作，把这种超创新的系统安装到家庭中。
Most importantly, for our audience, are generally contractors, you're partnering with contractors across the country to get this super innovative system in homes.
Jane，非常感谢你加入我们的节目。
Jane, thanks so much for joining us.
谢谢。
Thank you.
很高兴能来参加。
It's a pleasure to be here.
感谢你的介绍。
Thanks for that introduction.
很高兴能和你还有埃里克聊聊，埃德。
Good to chat to you, Ed, and also Eric.
期待看看这次对话会带我们走向哪里。
Looking forward to seeing where this conversation takes us.
太好了。
Excellent.
那我们直接切入正题吧。
Well, let's jump right in.
我们想聊聊这项技术还有公司是怎么起步的。
We wanna get into the origin story a bit about the technology, about the business.
所以你是2018年换了自家的燃气炉之后，才创立了Harvest这家公司的，对吧？
So you started Harvest after replacing your own gas furnace in 2018.
没错吧？
Is that right?
能跟我们多讲讲吗？当时你具体在找什么样的产品，而市场上却没有现成的？
Can you tell us a bit more about like what you were looking for that didn't exist in the market at that point?
对的。
That's right.
事实上，他们常说，要创立一家公司，最好基于你自己亲身经历过的一种真实需求。
In fact, they often say is found a company based on a real need that you've experienced.
这就是这样一个故事。
And this is one of those stories.
当时我住在一栋老旧的、吱呀作响的二十年代老房子里，位于湾区，那房子的供暖系统非常陈旧。
I'm sitting in an old, like, creaky old nineteen twenties house in in the Bay Area, which had a very old heating system.
我们一直在寻找替代燃气供暖的方案，想改用热泵，但希望电费不要涨，同时还能最大限度地利用清洁、便宜的可再生能源。
And we were looking for an alternative to a gas system, wanted to move to heat pumps, but we wanted something that didn't increase bills and that also could maximize the use of clean, cheap, renewable energy.
但市场上找不到这样的产品。
And we couldn't find one on the market.
所以我们就开始琢磨，设计出了适合我家的方案，结果发现，等等，我的账单居然降了40%。
And so that's when we got our thinking caps on and developed the concept for my home and found that, wait a minute, my bills are down by 40%.
效果真的很好。
This worked really well.
这确实是我们需要推向市场的好东西。
This is something we really need to bring to market.
这就是大概的情况，我很乐意分享接下来发生了什么。
And that's the very short story, and I'm happy to give more details on what happened next.
好的。
Alright.
你提到成本是个需要解决的问题。
So you mentioned cost was like an issue that you were trying to address.
还有哪些主要的痛点或技术难题，是你现有的系统没能解决的？
What were some of the other, like, major pain points, technical challenges you were trying to overcome that your existing system couldn't take care of?
你们的产品有哪些关键创新？
What are the key innovations that you've created with your product?
没错。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
首先，从基础来说，热泵才是正确的方向。
So first of all, as a baseline, heat pumps are the right way to go.
它们是非常出色的设备。
They are fantastic devices.
能效特别高。
They're super efficient.
它们是转移热量，而不是产生热量，比其他任何方案都高效得多。
They move heat rather than generating it, they're so much more efficient than any other option.
给现场已经安装了热泵的朋友们点个赞。
So kudos to anybody in the audience who's already got a heat pump installed.
但我们还能做得更好。
However, we can do better.
有几件事值得注意。
And there are a few things.
首先是效率问题。
One is efficiency.
其实天气暖和的时候运行热泵效果更好。
It's actually better to run your heat pump when it's warm.
通常就是白天中午的时候。
That's typically in the middle of the day at noon.
但你得在晚上九点和早上五点给房子供暖。
But you need to heat your house at 9PM and at 5AM.
这就造成了脱节。
And so you have that disconnect.
效率会下降，大概损失百分之二十到二十五。
You're losing efficiency, maybe about twenty-twenty 5% efficiency.
这意味着你用电更多，花的钱也更多。
What that means is you're using more electricity and you're paying more for it.
所以第一个问题是时间依赖性。
So that's one thing which is that time dependency.
另一个密切相关的问题是，你在晚上九点或凌晨五点开热泵时，用的电未必最清洁，因为那时候没有太阳能。
Another thing is which is closely tied to it is when you're running your heat pump at 9PM or you're running your heat pump at at 5AM, you're not necessarily using the cleanest electricity because there's no solar electricity at that time.
你所在的地方可能有水力发电，那当然很好。
You might have some hydro depending on where you're living, which is great.
有时候清晨可能会有风能，但电网里的可再生能源大部分是太阳能，而太阳能在晚上九点和凌晨五点根本不存在。
You might in some cases in the early morning have some wind, but most renewable electricity on the grid is solar and that is not at 9PM and it's not at 5AM.
第三个问题是电网的友好性。
And then the third one is grid friendliness.
对吧？
Right?
如果我们想大规模推广电气化，就不能只考虑自家的情况，还得看整体格局——也就是电网。
If we want to scale electrification, we have to think not just about our homes, but about the overall picture and that is the grid.
如果大家都集中在同一时段用电，就会迫使电网大规模扩容，成本自然就上去了。
And if we're all adding load at the same times of the day, that drives the need for costly capacity upgrades, that drives up cost.
而且这种扩建耗时很长。
It also takes a long time to get there.
所以，如果我们能把热泵这种好东西利用起来，但把运行时间和实际供暖需求的时间分开，就能打造一个更优的系统。
So a few things together mean that if we can take heat pumps, which are awesome, but find a way to decouple the time when we run the heat pump from the time when we deliver the value, which is the heating in hot water, we can have an even better system.
我们解决的问题就是：保留热泵的优异性能，再搭配热能储存系统，把两者拆分开来。
And that's the problem that we were solving for is take an awesome heat pump, but decouple it by partnering it with thermal energy storage.
这样一来，我们既能享受热泵超高效率的优势，又能用白天丰富的清洁电力，还能灵活调度，选在电网电力最充裕的时候运行，电费也降下来了。
And that means that we get all those good things about heat pumps super high efficiency, using that clean electricity in the middle of the day, being grid flexible, so running when there's most available electricity from a grid perspective and getting those bills down.
我们的客户平均能比使用传统热泵省下约三成的电费，但舒适度一点都没打折扣。
And so our customers see bills going down by on average about 30% compared to a conventional heat pump, but with no compromise in customer comfort.
客户该供暖的时候，晚上九点、下午五点，想用就用，完全不受影响。
The customer just gets their heating at 9PM, 5PM, whenever they need it.
热水想开就开。
They run the hot water.
他们想用热水的时候，随时都有。
They get the hot water whenever they need it.
他们什么都不用操心，只要调好恒温器，打开水龙头，热水就来了。
They don't actually have to do anything except for set their thermostat and run their faucets and and get their hot water.
整个系统都是自动运行的。
It just runs automatically.
我们既能提供极高的舒适度，又能实现节能，还能使用清洁电力。
But we deliver a very high level of comfort while getting those savings and using that clean electricity.
太棒了。
Love it.
你们用的是空气源热水热泵，连着热能储存装置，再配上你们自己研发的智能控制系统来管理整个系统，对吧？
So it's you've got a air to water heat pump that's connected to thermal storage, and then you've got, like, your own proprietary sort of brain that helps run this whole thing.
差不多是这样吗？
Is that about right?
能再详细说说，你们的系统具体包含哪些部件吗？
Can you tell us more about, like, what are all the components of your system?
你们的热泵也是你们独有的吗？
And are there do you also is your heat pump uniquely yours?
它是第三方的热泵吗？
Is it a third party heat pump?
市面上任何一款空气源到水源的热泵都能用吗？
Can you use any heat pump, any air to water heat pump on the market?
是的。
Yeah.
咱们详细说说这些技术细节吧。
Just get into some of those details.
对。
Yeah.
当然可以。
Absolutely.
这是个非常好的问题。
This is a great question.
你已经了解了整体情况。
And you've got the overall.
我们使用的是第三方的空气源水暖热泵，这种热泵已经在数十万家庭中得到验证，纯粹作为空气源水暖热泵使用。
We're using an air to water heat pump, a third party air to water heat pump, which is proven being deployed in hundreds of thousands of homes, but just as an air to water heat pump.
我们把它和储水箱结合起来，再通过我们的Harvest Pod进行智能控制。
We combine that with a tank and with our control over the Harvest Pod.
如果感兴趣，可以去我们的网站看看。
If people are interested, take a look on our website.
它的大小跟鞋盒差不多，安装在水箱上方或旁边墙上。
It's about the size of a shoebox and it sits on the wall above your tank or beside your tank.
而房屋内的供暖则采用传统的供暖系统。
And then the actual heating delivery to the home is using conventional systems.
如果你家是风管供暖，我们就用风管供暖。
If you've got forced air, we use forced air.
如果你家是地暖，我们就用地板辐射供暖。
If you've radiant floor, we use radiant floor.
我们对您家里如何分配热量其实没什么限制。
We're pretty agnostic as to how you deliver it in your home.
我们的目标是尽量不打扰您的日常生活。
The idea is we don't disrupt your home.
安装了Harvest系统后，您的家看起来和以前完全一样，根本看不出区别。
In fact, your home doesn't look any different with Harvest system than it does with any other system.
墙上再也不用装那些乱七八糟的设备了。
No more widgets on your walls.
我们只是利用您现有的风管或地暖系统，用您本来就有的那套东西。
It's just using the ductwork, using the radiant floor, whatever you happen to use.
不过关键在于，我们用的是空气源热水热泵。
The key thing though is we're using an air to water heat pump.
为什么呢？
Why?
因为热水可以储存。
Because you can store hot water.
市面上大多数用于供暖的热泵其实都是空气对空气的。
Most heat pumps out there for heating are actually air to air.
热空气很难储存。
You can't really store hot air.
它根本不是个合适的储能介质。
That's not a good medium for storage.
所以，Harvest Pod 真正做的是协调所有其他设备。
So what we're really doing with the Harvest Pod is orchestrating all the other devices.
如果你不介意，我来稍微解释一下。
And if you don't mind, I'm just going to unpack that a little bit.
首先，我们做的是预测性需求分析。
So first of all, we're doing predictive demand.
这是一款智能设备。
So this is a smart device.
它会根据你家人的生活习惯，再加上天气预报，预测出埃里克一家未来24小时需要多少热量。
So it's figuring out how much heat will Eric's household need in the next twenty four hours based on how your family behaves, and based also on the weather forecast.
明天天气预报已经知道了，你们家取暖和热水一共需要多少热量？
So how much heat will you need in terms of heating and hot water with a known weather forecast tomorrow?
这样我们就能算出需要提供多少英热单位的热量。
And that tells us how many BTU of heat we're going to have to deliver.
根据这些信息，Harvest Pod 还会判断，什么时候运行热泵最划算。
And then based on that knowledge, the harvest pot is also going to determine, well, when is the optimum time to run that heat pump?
我们之前提到过室外温度，系统也会把这个因素考虑进去。
We talked a bit about outdoor temperature, so it's going to take that into account.
我会尽量选在室外最暖和的时候启动设备。
I'm going to try and run it when it's warmest outside.
但系统还会考虑其他因素，比如热泵本身的性能特点。
But it's also going to take into account other things like what are the characteristics of the heat pump.
还有，Eric 用的是哪种电价方案？
Also, what rate schedule is Eric on?
你用的是分时电价吗？
Do you have a time of use rate?
你是按固定费率收费的吗？
Do you have a flat rate?
你参与了需求响应计划吗？
Are you playing into a demand response programme?
对吧？
Right?
我们怎么才能帮你省下更多电费？
How do we optimise for your bills to save you money?
我们的首要目标就是帮你省钱。
That's our number one objective, save you money.
其次，是保证足够的供暖和热水供应。
Two, delivering all that heat and hot water.
还要考虑热损失这些因素。
And then it's also optimising for things like thermal losses.
在其他条件相同的情况下，热水储存的时间越短越好。
All things being equal, you want to store that hot water for the least time possible.
对吧？
Right?
我们的系统保温性能非常好，但热量还是会随时间流失。
Our systems are highly insulated, but you lose heat as a function of time.
所以我们也会针对这一点进行优化。
So we're going to optimize for that as well.
因此， Harvest 罐体的设计重点是优化热泵的运行时间。
The harvest pot is therefore optimizing for the time of operation of the heat pump.
但我觉得我们另一项关键工作，是把储水罐当电池来管理。
But then I'd say the key thing that we're also doing is managing a tank as a battery.
这其实是个相当复杂的问题，要做好并不容易，而 Harvest 在这方面做得非常出色，这也是我们核心专利的所在。
And that is really, I'd say, a relatively complex problem to do really well and that's something where Harvest has really done a really good job right and that's where we have a lot of our IP.
所以，这个看似普通的热水罐，实际上被我们当作一个模块化的电池在使用。
And so basically that tank, which is a standard hot water tank, we're really operating as a modular battery.
我这么说是什么意思呢？
And what do I mean by that?
大多数热泵热水器都是所谓的多回路设计。
Well, most heat pump water heaters are what they call multi pass.
也就是说，整个水箱的水都会被加热，温度相对均匀。
So basically, you're heating up the whole tank and you're getting a relatively homogenous temperature.
水是流动的，难免会有一点分层现象。
I mean, water flows, you can have a slight stratification.
我们反而充分利用了这种分层效果。
We're really leaning into that stratification.
热泵热水器产生的热水从水箱顶部进入。
Hot water from the heat pump water heater goes into the top of the tank.
供给地暖盘管的热水，也是从水箱顶部抽出的。
Hot water to your hydronic coil leaves from the top of the tank.
冷水则从底部流入，再从底部回到热泵循环。
Cool water comes down to the bottom and cool water goes back to the heat pump from the bottom.
这样做的结果是，水箱顶部储存着热水，底部是冷水，中间只有一层很薄的温度过渡区。
What that means is we have a storage of hot water at the top of the tank, cold water at the bottom and a very narrow thermocline in between.
这样我们就实现了模块化设计。
That gives us modularity.
夏天的时候，我们可能只加热水箱的20%左右，因为家里热水需求就这么点。
In summer, we may only be heating say 20% of the tank, cause that's all you're going to need for your hot water.
春秋季节，加热三分之一或三分之二，具体要看供暖需求。
In spring and fall, we may be heating a third, two thirds depending on your heating needs.
冬天我们就得把整个水箱都加热了，一天之内甚至可能加热两遍。
In the winter, we're going to be heating the whole thing, maybe even twice over the course of twenty four hours.
我们配备了一套完整的模块化电池系统，能高效利用所有发电量，做到零浪费，还能根据家庭实际需求灵活调节。
We have a fully modular battery which is allowing us to use efficiently all the energy we're generating without any wastage and really modulating that based on the needs at the home.
这一点至关重要。
And that's really key.
另外一点是，我们不只是把水箱当电池用，还能实时掌握它的充电状态。
And I'd say another point on that is we're not just managing the tank as a battery, we have the knowledge of the state charge of that battery.
每一天的情况都不一样。
Every day is going to be different.
我们知道水箱中任意一点的温度，误差只有几华氏度，正是这份精准让我们能有效掌控。
We know to within a few degrees Fahrenheit what the temperature is at any point in that tank, and that means that knowledge gives us control.
这意味着你永远不会缺热水。
That means that you're never going to run out.
我们总能提前规划，优化你的供暖、热水使用，同时帮你节省开支。
We can always plan ahead, and we can always optimize for your heating and hot water and your bills.
这系统太棒了。
What a cool system.
作为同样爱技术的人，我特别欣赏你们在处理这么复杂的多目标优化问题，却让住户用起来简单到只用调温控器、按需用热水就行。
As a fellow nerd, I just love that you're doing a multi optimization problem that's super complex, but you turn it into this super simple experience for the homeowner where they're just in their thermostat and using their domestic hot water as they need it.
所有这些精妙的运作，都是你们的系统在背后协调的。
But all this magic is happening and being orchestrated by your system.
我有太多问题想问了。
I have so many questions.
你是不是想说点什么？
But were you gonna make a comment?
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
我的意思是，我刚才讲得有点深入，谈到了我们做的那些具体工作，但归根结底，我们最关心的还是 homeowner 的体验。
I mean, I dug a little bit deep there into kind of the types of things that we're doing, but essentially for the homeowner, right, that's the one we're thinking of.
他们家室外装了一台热泵。
They got a heat pump outdoors.
他们家原先放热水箱的地方，现在还是放着一个水箱。
They got a tank where their tank was.
他们家原先放锅炉的地方，现在装了一个空气处理器，控制单元就安装在水箱旁边。
They've got an air handler where their furnace was, and they've got this control unit above their tank, beside their tank.
它的外形尺寸基本和他们原有的设备一模一样。
It typically fits in the form factor of what they have already.
整个系统由墙上的恒温器来控制。
And it's driven by the thermostat on their wall.
他们设定好恒温器，然后就忘在一边，该干嘛干嘛，根本不用操心。
They set their thermostat and forget it and go and live their lives, and you don't have to worry about it.
当然，通过我们的App，你可以随时查看设备运行情况、负荷转移了多少，以及省了多少电。
You can, of course, on our app, how things are going, how much load shifting you've done, how much energy have you saved.
这挺不错的。
That's nice.
不过我觉得，大概有一半的客户对这些数据特别感兴趣。
But I would say about 50% of our customers are super interested in that.
另一半呢，他们有别的事要忙，就只管过自己的日子，懒得管这些。
The others have got other things to think about, and they just go and live their lives.
我特别喜欢一点，你刚才没提，但肯定有个巨大的优势。
And I love like, you didn't mention it, but there's gotta be this huge benefit.
你不仅能在最理想的条件下运行热泵热水器，把室外的热量转移到室内，或者反过来。
Not only are you operating the heat pump water heater when it's sort of ideal conditions to be moving that heat from outdoors to indoors or vice versa.
我猜你们也支持制冷，而且和传统热泵不同，你们能让热泵长时间持续运行，完全不受室内负荷剧烈变化的影响。
I'm assuming you also do cooling, but you can unlike a conventional heat pump, you can have these really long run times for that heat pump and decouple it from changes in loads that are really dynamic in the space.
这意味着热泵能在最佳运行区间持续工作，避免频繁启停，效率更高。
So that means that heat pump is gonna run even more efficiently because it's optimal part of its modulation and not be short cycling.
没错。
Yes.
这在很多方面都有好处。
That's better for a whole bunch of other reasons.
简直太棒了。
Like, it's it's fantastic.
确实如此。
That is.
能把它独立控制，就不用一直开关了。
Being able to decouple it means you're not in that mode of switching it on, switching it off.
你可以让它稳定运行，输出更平稳。
You're able to run it at a a more steady output.
事实上，回顾我们部署过的所有家庭，没有一户因为这套系统需要升级电箱。
In fact, typically, thinking back of all the homes we've deployed, no home has to have a panel upgrade because of a harvest system.
我们用的这个热泵是15安的，对吧？
The heat pump that we're using is a 15 amp heat pump, right?
这意味着它能帮住户省下不少其他安装热泵时常见的额外开销。
And so what that means is it does save on other associated costs that some homeowners have to incur when they're putting in that heat pump.
通常你得装一个大功率热泵，只为应对早上那半小时的高峰负荷，但我们能提前把热量慢慢生成并储存起来，早上再释放出来满足需求，却不用从电网大功率取电。
And often you're to put in a high power heat pump to meet a load that may happen just in half an hour in the mornings, was we're able to generate that heat over a period of time, store it up, and still deliver that peak heating load in the morning, but not by drawing high power from the grid.
明白了。
Got it.
我接下来想问的是关于需求响应的部分。
And so that that was my next question of kinda getting into the demand response piece.
听起来你们能提前预测什么时候会有需求响应事件，或者出现什么天气状况。
It sounds like you're able to forecast when there might be a demand response event or when there might be a certain weather event.
你们是靠预测来管理这些情况的。
You're sort of managing that predictively.
我们可以获取用户所在地的天气信息。
So we can get weather information on what's happening in their location.
因此，在规划时，我们会为每户家庭考虑这一点。
And so for every home, we're taking that into account in planning.
根据天气预报，他们的供暖需求会是多少？
What is that heating load going to be based on the weather forecast?
如果住户不在电网范围内，我们也会参考一个标准年份的数据来作规划。
If you're off the grid, then we're able to take a standard year and take that into account in any case.
那么，从成本角度出发，我们该如何优化呢？
Now, how do we optimise from a cost perspective?
不同家庭的情况各不相同。
And different homeowners in different situations.
我们的许多客户所在地区都实行分时电价，至少他们可以选择这种计费方式。
Many of our homeowners are in places where they have time of use rates, or or at least they have the option for time of use rates.
在这种情况下，我们会建议用户选择分时电价，因为我们总能将用电时间调整到低谷时段。
And in that case, we're saying opt in, because we can always shift to those off peak times.
如果采用分时电价，使用蓄热系统能帮您省下不少钱。
You're going to save money with the harvest system if you go to a time of use rate.
所以在这种情况下，用的是分时电价。
And so in that case, it's a it's a time of use rate.
夏季和冬季的电价可能不同，我们会针对这种情况做优化。
It may vary between the summer and the winter, and we're going to be optimised for that.
现在，动态电价的机会越来越多了。
Increasingly, we're seeing the opportunity for dynamic rates.
我们确实有一些位于佛蒙特州的住宅，已经在响应提前一天的动态电价信号。
We've actually got some homes in Vermont, which are responding to a day ahead dynamic price signal.
有了提前一天的电价信息，用户都能看到。
Doing that, they've got a day ahead pricing, they're seeing it.
下午一点电费是这个价，晚上九点又是另一个价。
1PM, the electricity is going to cost so much, but at 9PM, it's going to cost so much.
我们会根据这些信息来控制热泵运行，尽量降低用电成本。
We take that information into account and we run that heat pump, taking that to minimize the the cost.
住户的舒适度完全不受影响。
The homeowners have zero comfort impact.
他们的电费降下来了。
Their bills are down.
但对于Tilty来说，这些节省来自电力采购方面的优化。
But for the Tilty, they're making those savings from that electricity purchase perspective.
所以Harvest可以实现所有这些功能。
So Harvest can do any of those.
对吧？
Right?
关键还是看你的具体配置。
So it really is what is your setup?
我们完全可以根据这些需求做出调整。
And we can really respond to those needs.
但我觉得特别有意思的是，当我们谈到电网和电网灵活性时，电网的容量压力正在加剧，尤其是数据中心激增，这让电网的承载能力变得更加紧张。
But what I see is really interesting here is when we start to talk about the grid and grid flexibility, is a growing challenge in terms of capacity constraints on the grid, particularly with that surge of data centres, which is means that it's getting more challenging from a grid capacity perspective.
Harvest会把家中90%的供暖和热水负荷，全部转移到最高效的时间段运行。
Harvest is shifting 90% of the heating and hot water load of the home to whenever is most efficient.
从成本和电网的角度来看。
And from a cost perspective, from a grid perspective.
我们谈的是家里绝大部分的能耗。
And we're talking about most of the energy use of the home.
对吧？
Right?
你想想供暖和热水，平均占家里总用电量的六成左右。
When you think about heating and hot water, that's on average about 60% of the energy used in the home.
我们转移的负荷量非常大。
We're shifting a huge amount of load.
比如燃气灶确实重要，但耗电量其实微不足道。
Like, when you think of your gas stove, that's important, but it's very small in terms of energy use.
供暖和热水才是家里名副其实的用电大户。
Heating and hot water are kind of the goliath in terms of energy use in your home.
而我们正在调整全部这些负荷。
And we're shifting all of that.
这意味着，每天每个收获系统相比普通热泵，能转移大约10到11千瓦时的电力。
What that means is each harvest system every day, when you compare it to a regular heat pump, is shifting about 10 or 11 kilowatt hours of electricity.
如果跟电热丝加热系统比，我们能转移的电量高达35千瓦时，而且可以灵活安排在最合适的时段。
When you compare it to an electric resistance system, we're shifting upwards of 35 kilowatt hours of electricity to whenever makes the most sense.
从容量角度看，一千个收获系统相当于提供了大约10兆瓦的免费电力容量。
Or to put it in a capacity perspective, about a thousand harvest homes is worth about 10 megawatts of free capacity.
这一点非常重要。
And that is important.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
没错。
Yeah.
这样还能减少电网升级的需求。
You can avoid more grid upgrades.
你可以缓解电网的拥堵问题。
You can offset grid congestion issues.
好处可太多了。
There's all kinds of benefits.
我还有几个关于暖通空调的具体问题，想让埃德也参与进来聊聊。
Couple of other HVAC specific questions that I wanna get Ed into the conversation here.
从暖通空调设计的角度，你能再多说一点吗？
Tell me a little bit more about from a HVAC design standpoint.
这个系统能达到的最高出水温度是多少？
What's the highest output temperature that we can do?
比如你提到佛蒙特州的那栋房子，那里常用的是水管式散热片，通常需要160到180华氏度的热水，这些系统能适配吗？
Like, can we use these systems in, like, you mentioned a house in Vermont where you often have these hydronic fin tube baseboard where normally they're designed for, like, a 160, 170, 180 degree water temperature?
这个系统在供暖和制冷方面分别有哪些选择？
What kind of options do I have for heating or cooling for that matter with this system?
没错。
Yeah.
这其实取决于热泵能提供的最高水温是多少。
So that's really a dependency of what is the maximum water temperature that you can get out of the heat pump.
我们目前用的热泵最高出水温度是150度。
So the heat pump that we're using right now operates at a maximum temperature of a 150 degrees.
所以目前就是这个水平。
So that's kind of where it sits.
那接下来就得看下游设备的情况了，得确保它们尺寸合适，能足够把热量输送到屋里。
And so you'd need to have kind of it does then depend on what equipment you have downstream and if they're sized appropriately to deliver enough heat into the home.
所以这类分析总是必不可少的。
And so you always need to do that analysis.
你们的设计供暖日温度是多少？
What's your heating design day?
家里用的是什么类型的供暖设备？
What is the type of equipment you have in the home?
如果往后选能提供更高温度的热泵，会更容易适配你们现有的设备，满足具体需求。
There are options as you move forward to work with heat pumps that can lift a little bit higher in terms of temperature, and that's gonna make it easier depending on the equipment you're using to meet those particular needs.
是的。
Yeah.
有道理。
Makes sense.
简，听了这么多，我简直好奇死了，刚才我们直接跳过去了。
Jane, having heard all of this, I'm dying to know and we skipped right past it.
你到底是谁？你的背景是什么？当你决定不再用燃气炉、改用热泵的时候，你去看了市场，发现没有哪款热泵能满足你的需求，于是你决定自己设计并安装一套系统。
Who are you and what is your background that when you thought I wanna get off a furnace and get onto a heat pump, you looked at the market, you saw that there were no heat pumps that quite did what you wanted and you said I'm gonna design my own system and install.
简单说说你的经历吧。
Like, tell us about your background a little bit.
好的。
Okay.
行。
Alright.
我是个工程师。
So I'm an engineer.
我是土木工程师，特别喜欢建筑。
I'm a civil engineer, so I love buildings.
熟人都知道，我闲暇时喜欢搭露台、砌干石墙这类活儿。
That people who know me well know that in my free time, I build patios and dry stone walls and do that kind of stuff.
说到底，我骨子里还是个工程师。
So I'm very much an engineer at heart.
我还有个流体力学的博士学位，这可是我最早的兴趣之一。
I also have a PhD in fluid mechanics, was one of my first passions.
我最早的一份工作就是研究风力涡轮机在不同风况下的性能，特别有意思。
In fact, one of my very first jobs, was working on wind turbines and the performance of wind turbines under different wind conditions, which is a lot of fun.
在进入美国企业界待了一段时间后，我从欧洲搬到了湾区，当时在那儿做着一份挺不错的企业工作，眼看着周围新能源创新如火如荼地兴起。
After a stint in corporate America, which brought me from Europe to the Bay Area, I was sitting in the Bay Area having a super interesting job in corporate America, seeing all this bubbling of innovation happening around me in terms of renewable energy.
那是在二月份。
This was in the February.
我当时就在想，等等，这不对劲。
And I was thinking, wait a minute.
如果我不回去再为清洁能源做点什么，我一定会后悔。
If I don't go back and work a bit more on some clean energy, I will regret this.
于是我离开了大公司，加入了我参与的第一家初创企业——Soul Focus，那是在2008年。
And so I left corporate America and joined the very first startup that I was part of, which is a company called Soul Focus, and that was in 2008.
从那以后，我几乎一直专注于能源领域的初创公司。
And since then, I have been working in start ups nearly exclusively in the energy sector.
Soul Focus是一家聚光光伏公司，我在那里学到了很多，明白了在小公司里每个人都有自己的角色意味着什么。
Sol Focus was a concentrator photovoltaic company, learnt a lot there, learnt about what it means to be part of a small company where everybody has a role to play.
每个人都知道正在发生什么。
Everybody knows what's going on.
大家必须紧密配合，才能确保成功。
Everybody has to have that seamless teamwork to make sure you can be successful.
我还学到了很多关于融资和投资的事，那些你迟早都会接触到的东西。
Learnt a lot also about fundraising and investment and all those other things that you learn.
那真是一所绝佳的训练营。
So that was a wonderful training school.
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后来我也加入了Innovault。
Joined Innovault as well.
那是一家储能公司，可惜已经倒闭了，但我从中学到了很多关于储能领域的知识。
That's an energy storage company, unfortunately defunct, but also learned a lot about the energy storage space.
我曾经在一家量子网络安全公司工作了几年，负责业务拓展，那是一项非常酷的技术，虽然属于完全不同的领域，但同样令人着迷，我也因此学会了如何把一项新技术真正推向市场。
I did work with a quantum cyber security company for a few years where I headed up business development, which was another really, really cool technology in a totally different sector, but super interesting technology as well, where I learned about how do you take a new technology and really bring it to market.
就在那家量子科技公司工作期间，我家的燃气炉快要坏了。
And I was actually at that quantum tech company when my gas furnace was about to break down.
我的联合创始人皮埃尔·勒福尔，同时也是我的丈夫。
And my co founder, Pierre Leforges, also happens to be my husband.
他也一直深耕能源领域。
And he has also been in the energy space.
他是一名工程师。
He's also an engineer.
他是计算机工程师，但也曾在自然资源保护委员会从事政策工作。
He's a computer engineer, but also worked in the policy space at NRDC.
所以我们俩都觉得，必须用清洁能源。
So between the two of us, right, we knew it had to be clean energy.
这一点我们很清楚。
We knew about that.
热泵我们也了解。
We knew about heat pumps.
以我们的背景，要是换成了燃气系统，简直不好意思。
And we would have been, I guess, embarrassed if we'd replaced our system by a gas system, given background.
朋友肯定不会放过我们，一辈子都会念叨。
Our friends would have never forgiven us, never let us down.
所以我们决定必须安装热泵系统。
So we knew we had to put a heat pump system in.
但后来我们突然意识到，要是大家都把热泵开在晚上九点或者早上六点，电网根本扛不住，还得靠那些峰值电厂，根本找不到更好的替代方案。
But then that realization that, wait a minute, if everybody puts a heat pump in and they're all running at 9PM or they're all running at 6AM, we're not going to be able to clean up the grid because that grid is going to have to keep those peaker plants because there are no good alternatives.
这样一来，我们根本实现不了大家嘴上说的那些气候目标。
So we're actually not going to meet those climate goals that we're all talking about.
于是我们意识到，家庭领域根本找不到好的解决方案，所以我们觉得必须自己来解决这个问题。
And so it was kind of that realization that there was no good solution for homes and we just felt we needed to solve for it.
清洁能源的知识、流体力学的背景、政策方面的理解，再加上自家房子确实急需改造，这些因素凑在一起，就催生了 Harvest Thermal 这个项目。
So a combination of clean energy knowledge, fluid mechanics knowledge, policy knowledge, and a house that really needed help came together to form Harvest Thermal.
太棒了。
That's awesome.
Eric 急着想插一句，说你们俩的背景其实特别像。
And Eric is dying to jump in and say your backgrounds are very similar.
我最早的一份工作，其实是在通用电气设计风力涡轮的叶片。
One of my first jobs was actually at GE designing wind turbine blades.
真不错。
Oh, excellent.
有一段时间我主要研究空气动力学和声学。
Air acoustics, aerodynamics for a good chunk of time.
那你呢？你的背景是怎样的？
And What's your background?
你是机械工程师吗？
Are you a mechanical engineer?
对，机械工程。
Mechanical.
对，机械工程。
Mechanical.
是的。
Yeah.
机械工程，专攻流体方向。
Mechanical with a concentration in fluids.
我九十年代末、两千年初就开始接触计算流体力学，特别着迷。
I, yeah, got into CFD in the late nineties, early two thousands, and I'm super into it.
正是这些工具和系统的接触，让我逐渐走进了软件和计算机科学领域。
And that's really what brought me into software and computer science was kinda getting exposed to all those different kinds of tools and systems.
太好了。
Excellent.
知道这个挺好的。
It's good to know.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Alright.
你对这项技术的背景介绍非常有帮助。
Super helpful background on the technology on you.
我来问几个跟承包商相关的问题。
Let me ask some contractor oriented questions.
现在有不少承包商在听，他们对热泵特别感兴趣。
So we got a bunch of contractors listening to this who are super into heat pumps.
空气源到水源的热泵现在挺火的，但价格高，实际应用还不多。
Air to water is like, it's the rage, but it's also it's expensive, and it's not being put into play as much.
如果他们听了之后，觉得真想试试这种回收系统。
So if they listen to this, and they're like, I really wanna try a harvest system.
你跟我们说说，现在这种系统和安装空气源热泵，或者空气源到水源热泵，到底有什么不一样？
Talk to us about how different it is today versus what they'd be doing for air air heat pump if they're installing one of those or if they were gonna be doing an air water heat pump.
跟那两种方式比，差别主要在哪？
Like, how does this differ compared to those two alternatives?
说实话，从施工方的角度来看，这根本不算难事。
Honestly, it's really not a heavy lift from a contractor perspective.
只要你有暖通空调执照，再加上水管工执照。
If you've got your HVAC license and a plumbing license.
对吧？
Right?
这其实就是暖通和水管的结合。
This is HVAC and plumbing combined.
你只是在室外装一台热泵热水器。
You're putting in a heat pump water heater outdoors.
这跟装一台普通的热泵热水器完全一样。
That's the same as putting in a regular heat pump water heater.
你把水箱装在储藏室里，车库角落，或者地下室，基本上差不多。
You're putting in a tank, in a tank closet, the corner of a garage, a basement, pretty much the same.
你安装的是带水循环盘管的空气处理机，而不是制冷剂盘管。
You're putting in an air handler with a hydronic coil as opposed to a refrigerant coil.
所以你要拉一条水管，把水引到空气处理机那里。
So you're running a hydronic line, a water line to the air handler.
然后在水箱旁边或上方安装我们的控制单元。
And then beside or above the tank you're putting in our control unit.
控制单元设计成即插即用，接线和普通电气线路、水管接口都一样。
The control unit is designed to be plug and play, it's wiring and standard wiring and plumbing fixtures.
你的采热模块和水箱之间需要一些水管连接，因为这是控制水箱内运作的方式。
You're gonna have some plumbing connectors between your harvest pod and the tank because that's how we control what's happening in the tank.
水箱里的水在进入空气处理机或生活用水系统之前，都会先经过采热模块。
All the water from the tank goes through the harvest pod before it goes to the air handler or the domestic water.
所以采热模块和水箱之间会多几处水管连接。
So you have a few more plumbing connections between the pod and the tank.
差不多就这些了。
That's about it.
我们当然有培训资料。
We do have obviously training material.
事实上，如果有人想看看我们的网站，有个专门给承包商的页面。
In fact, if folks want to look on our website, there's a contractor page.
去 harvestdemo.com，找 contractors 那个选项。
Go to harvestdemo.com, look for contractors.
那里有一些视频，展示系统实际是什么样子。
Some videos of what the system looks like.
本质上，你做的跟平时差不多，关键是要想好把收获单元装在哪里，以及怎么连接它。
Essentially, it's very similar to what you'd be doing anyway, and what you need to think about is where you're putting the harvest pod and how you connect the harvest pod.
其他就没什么了。
Otherwise, that's it.
说实话，我们对承包商的培训，不到一个小时就能搞定。
And to be honest, our training of contractors, honestly, it takes less than an hour.
关键在于，这里有什么不同，这才是我们的核心价值。
It's more about this is what's different, and this is also the value proposition.
这才是你向消费者推销收获系统的方式。
This is how you sell the harvest system to the consumer.
我没想到它这么轻。
I'm surprised it's that light.
收获舱听起来挺技术流的，跟软件关系很大。
The Harvest Pod sounds decently technical and software oriented.
安装和启动其实没那么复杂。
Installation and startup is not terribly complicated.
对。
Yeah.
我们公司一开始做的第一件事就是，舱内其实有很多复杂的东西。
Well, I mean, one of the first things we did as a company was there's a lot of complexity inside the pod.
我们的重点是把这些复杂的东西都藏在舱里，让用户完全不用操心。
And our key thing is make sure it's inside the pod and that people don't have to deal with it.
我家墙上安装的第一个系统，你真该看看那样子。
The very first system on the wall of my home, I mean, you should have seen it.
对吧？
Right?
到处都是蓝色胶带。
There's blue tape all over the place.
对吧？
Right?
电线、电阻、温度传感器、流量计，乱七八糟的。
Wires, resistors, temperature sensors, flow meters.
那个智能舱里面东西可真不少。
There's a lot of stuff inside that pod.
因为这个智能舱本质上是个控制系统，不只是软件层面的。
Because the pod really is a control system, not just from a software perspective.
里面确实有个电子控制板，但它同时也是个水管控制系统。
There is an electronics board inside there, but it's also a plumbing controller.
对吧？
Right?
有流量计、温度传感器、混合阀，还有一个循环泵。
There's flow meters, temperature sensors, a mixing valve, a circulator pump.
我们控制着流向液压线圈的水流速度，确保最大限度地提取热量，获得理想的温差，提升整体效率。
We're controlling the speed of the flow that goes to the hydraulic coil to make sure we extract the maximum heat and we get that a really nice delta T and optimise for efficiency.
我们把这些复杂功能都集成到设备里了，这样安装人员不用操心，住户也看不见。
So what we've done is bake all of that complexity into the pod, so that the contractor doesn't have to deal with it and the homeowner doesn't have to see it.
这样一来，对所有人都更方便了。
And that makes it just better for all of everybody.
所以这些复杂的设计都是在工厂里搞定的。
So that's why the complexity is managed in the factory.
安装人员只要把它挂在墙上，接好水管，调试一下，就完事了。
The contractor attaches it to a wall, does the plumbing connections and commissions it, and off they go.
你们能详细说说，怎么帮安装人员确定合适的储水罐尺寸吗？
Can you tell us more about your process for helping a contractor figure out what's the appropriate size storage tank?
还是说需要两个罐子而不是一个？
Or should do you need two tanks versus one?
你们还用其他缓冲罐吗？
Do you have other buffer tanks?
像这类部件怎么处理？
And, like, those kind of components.
你们是怎么帮他们确定的？
How do you help with that?
我们大多数住宅的配置是室外热泵配一个储水罐。
Most of our homes, it's the heat pump outdoors, a tank.
普通独栋住宅，我们通常用119加仑的罐子。
We typically are using most single family homes, 119 gallon tank.
小一点的房子，可能用83加仑的就够了。
In a a smaller home, it might be an 83 gallon tank.
我们有一张查表，能帮他们选到最适合房子大小的罐子。
We have a lookup table that allows them to determine which is the right size for the home.
有些情况下，大多数家庭只用一台热泵，但如果房子比较大，也可以加装一台辅助热泵。
And in some cases, you can put in in most homes, you have one single heat pump, but in some cases, you may add a secondary heat pump if you've got a larger home.
就像有些房子装两台锅炉一样，你可以把两台热泵搭配使用，提升制热能力。
Just as some homes have two furnaces, you can couple them to increase that capacity.
我们会提供 sizing 的建议，不过这套方案已经很标准化了。
So we give them guidance as to how to size it, but it's pretty standard.
其实挺简单的。
It's pretty easy.
明白了。
Got it.
那些储水罐可以是任何第三方品牌的120加仑或80加仑型号。
And those tanks, it's could be any third party 120 gallon or 80 gallon tank.
不一定要用特定品牌，只要符合我们规定的技术参数就行。
It doesn't necessarily need be a certain brand, just needs to meet certain specs that you have.
我们会和热泵一起销售储水罐。
We sell the tank at the same time as the heat pump.
所以承包商可以从经销商那里购买热泵和水箱，也可以通过我们购买，看他们觉得哪种方式更方便。
So the contractor can buy that heat pump and tank, heat pump, water heater, and tank from their distributor, or they can buy it through us, whichever they prefer, whatever makes most sense.
大概一半的承包商选择我们这儿一站式采购，另一半则只从我们这儿买主机，其他部件还是找自己的经销商。
I'd say about half our contractors buy through us as a one stop shop, half our contractors just buy the pod from us and they get the rest from their distributors.
这完全看他们自己的选择。
It's really up to them.
我们确实建议，也要求必须使用特定型号的水箱。
We do recommend, we do require that you use a certain tank.
为什么呢？
Why?
水箱看起来不就是个容器吗？但其实不同水箱差别挺大的。
I mean, it is just a tank, but there are differences between tanks.
我们要求水箱顶部有两个接口，底部也有两个接口。
We need a tank with two ports at the top and two ports at the bottom.
并不是所有水箱都符合这个设计。
They don't all have that.
我们需要一个能尽量减少上下层水混合的水箱。
We need a tank which is going to minimize vertical mixing.
关键在于这个接口是怎么和水箱连接的。
So it's how is that port connected to the tank.
市场上不是只有这一种水箱可用，但用这款性能会更好。
So it's not the only tank on the market that would work, but it's just gonna give you better performance if you use this tank.
明白了。
Got it.
如果他们直接从你们这儿买设备，你们是直接发货到客户安装现场吗？
And so if they're buying the equipment directly through you, are you drop shipping equipment to the customer location when it's already installed?
具体是怎么操作的？
What does that look like?
我们有个分销合作伙伴，会把设备发到承包商的仓库，有时候也会直接发到客户现场。
So we have a distribution partner who will ship that to the contractor warehouse or in some cases, the customer site.
他们也可以直接从自己的经销商那里采购。
Or they can purchase directly from their distributor.
这很常见，对吧？
So pretty standard, right?
我们尽量让它变得简单易用。
We try and make it as easy as as possible.
我们确实直接和承包商合作，特别是针对收获舱。
We do, but we do work directly with for the harvest pod, we do work directly with contractor.
我觉得这是两回事。
I think that's the separate thing.
收获舱和配套的水力盘管。
Harvest Pod and the hydronic coil that goes with it.
对吧？
Right?
但它会安装在空气处理机组里。
But it's gonna go in the air handler.
这些产品只有 Harvest 才能提供。
These are things that you can only get from Harvest.
其余的部件，你可以从 Harvest 买，也可以从你的经销商那里买。
For the rest, you can get it either from Harvest or from your distributor.
明白了。
Got it.
你不会去你当地的家居卖场或者普通经销商那儿找这些东西吧？他们根本不会有。
And so you're not going to your, like, my local home ends or my local typical distributor, they're not gonna have this stuff.
这些事儿都是你们在负责。
You guys are handling that.
所以要么直接发货给你的客户，但你得提前做好规划。
And so either drop shipping to whoever you're doing fulfillment for you, but you gotta do a little planning ahead.
除此之外，其他都差不多。
But otherwise, it's very similar.
没错。
Correct.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yes.
随着规模扩大，这种情况会变化。
And as we scale, that will change.
但现在，我们就是这样运作的。
But right now, that's how that's how we're working.
对。
Yeah.
明白了。
Makes sense.
承包商是怎么找到你们的？
How are contractors finding you guys?
你们有做广告吗？
Are you, like, are you advertising?
是不是有一些前沿的承包商，他们手里的业主特别想要环保、洁净的系统，然后就找到了你们？
They basically just you've got some cutting edge contractors who have homeowners who really want the greenest, cleanest system, and they find you guys?
现在就是这样运作的吗？
Is that how that's working today?
是的。
Yeah.
这其实涉及很多方面。
I mean, it's a range of things.
越来越多的承包商是被业主主动推荐来的，因为业主明确说想要 Harvest 系统，这样一来，承包商也就知道了 Harvest，这真的很好。
Increasingly, we're getting contractors coming to us because homeowners have said they want a harvest system, And that's how the contractor is hearing about harvest, which is really nice.
另外，我们也会主动联系承包商。
And then, alternatively, we're reaching out to contractors.
对吧？
Right?
我们会去找那些走在前沿、对热泵感兴趣、经常做电气化改造的承包商，跟他们说：你们要不要考虑试试 Harvest 系统？
We're identifying contractors who are leading edge, who are interested in heat pumps, who do a lot of electrification, and we're saying, hey, maybe you could consider doing a harvest system.
我觉得 Harvest 的价值在于，它是个非常独特的品牌。
I think the value of harvest is that that it's a very differentiated product.
对吧？
Right?
厨房餐桌上的对话就容易多了。
That kitchen table conversation is easier.
为什么？
Why?
因为我们能帮你节省30%的电费，相比热泵来说。
Because we're gonna save your bills by 30% compared to heat pumps.
很多人不愿意安装热泵，最大的顾虑就是不确定电费会怎么变，不只是现在，而是未来二十年。
One of the biggest barriers to people putting in heat pumps is that uncertainty about what it's going to do to my bills, not just today, but over the next twenty years.
Harvest 系统总能在电价最低的时候运行，而且电价一变，我们也能跟着调整。
Harvest is always able to run when the electricity is cheapest and as electricity rates change, we're able to adapt to how they are changing.
所以我们是在让你的系统抵御未来涨价的风险。
So we're future proofing your system against rising costs.
这在厨房餐桌上的讨论里，真的特别有说服力。
So that really makes a lot of difference at the kitchen table conversation.
而且我们还能最大化利用太阳能，比如你屋顶要是有太阳能板，就能用Harvest实现自发自用。
And then the fact that we're maximizing use of solar, for example, if you happen to have solar on your roof, you're able to self consume with harvest.
这样一来，用户能省下更多钱。
It really saves even more money for folks.
但就算你家没装太阳能板，我们也在最大程度使用清洁能源，这点对很多人来说很重要。
But even if you don't have solar on your roof, we're maximizing use of clean energy, matters to a lot of people.
还有，这种电网灵活性也很有价值，尤其当人们开始考虑未来的需求响应和灵活用电时。
And then that grid flexibility is also nice to have as people think about the future of demand response and flexible loads.
同样，安装Harvest系统就是为未来做准备，因为你买的不只是眼下，而是未来二十年的解决方案。
Again, they're future proof with a harvest system because you're not just buying for now, you're buying for twenty years.
我们知道，未来二十年电网的压力会越来越大。
And we know that the grid's gonna be under a lot of constraints in the next twenty years.
非常有意思。
Super interesting.
明白了。
Alright.
我现在要换几种承包商的角色来聊聊。
I'm gonna put on a couple different contractor hats now.
如果我是个有五十年、七十五年经验的老承包商，
So if I'm a contractor who does I've been around fifty, seventy five years.
像这样的承包商，通常都做暖通和水管工程。
If you're that kind of contractor, you're often HVAC and plumbing.
没错。
Yep.
所以这两项你都得会。
So you've got both of those.
现在很多人还把电气安装也加了进来。
And a lot of folks have now added on HVAC plumbing electrical.
我特别喜欢听到关于Harvest的这些内容，因为我本来就具备做这项工作的技能，这正是我的优势。
I love what I'm hearing about Harvest because I've got the training needed to do this, and that's a differentiator.
如果我是一家只专注热泵的公司，但不做水管工程，那这就成问题了。
If I'm a company, a different kind of contractor who just focuses on heat pumps, but I don't do plumbing, this is problematic for me.
我问一个问题。
Let me ask this.
如果你是第一类公司，做暖通、水管和电气，而且已经把安装五头多区热泵系统做成了成熟业务，
If you were gonna go, if you're one of the first kind of company, you do HVAC plumbing and electrical, but you've got built a good business installing like a five head multi zone heat pump system.
通常一个团队一天就能搞定。
You can typically do those with one crew in a day.
对吧？
Right?
所以他们的成本模型就是围绕这个建立的。
And so they have unit economics built around that.
你提到过安装，但如果更具体一点，比如我们装一个单罐、单室外机的热泵系统，你们那边需要一天完成吗？
You've talked a bit about the installation, but if we get like a little bit more into hours, if I'm doing a one tank, one outdoor heat pump system for you guys, is that a day install?
还是得花好几天？
Is that a multiple day install?
你觉得呢？
What do you think?
这会花更多时间，因为我们不仅要处理室内温控，还要负责热水供应，所以得拿这些项目做全面对比。
It takes a little bit longer, and we're doing your space conditioning and your hot water, so you do need to compare that apples to apples as well.
我们看到有经验的团队通常需要三天左右，时间上大概就是这个量级。
What we're seeing for experienced crews is more like three days, right, that you're looking at in terms of time.
确实耗时更长，主要是因为除了温控，你还得加装热水系统，再加上 Harvest Pod 这个额外的水管安装环节。
So it does take longer and really in part because you're doing not your space conditioning, but also your hot water, and you've got this additional plumbing step with the harvest pod.
明白了。
Clear.
但这是一次解决三个问题。
But it's a threefer.
空调、供暖制冷，还有热水，全包了。
It's your AC, it's your it's heating and cooling, and it's your hot water.
所以人们老是抱怨热泵，其实是有原因的。
So it really is because people always complain about heat pumps.
你不能光拿我们跟燃气炉比，因为我们其实是集供暖、制冷于一体的系统。
You can't just compare us to a furnace because we're more like a furnace AC.
对吧？
Right?
所以你其实说的是同一个意思。
And so you're basically saying the same thing.
这三样东西一起解决，对家庭来说意义重大。
It's all three of those items for a home, which is substantial.
所以对承包商来说，这成了一个更高价位的项目。
So it becomes a higher ticket item for the contractor.
对吧？
Right?
他们一次性安装了这三套系统。
They're deploying all these three systems.
对业主来说，就不必操心两年后还得单独换热水设备了，因为全都一起搞定了。
And for the homeowner, they don't have to worry about, oh, I've got to do my hot water in two years time because it's all done at the same time.
所以这本身就是一种价值。
So that's value.
但确实比单纯装个便宜的热泵然后完事要花更多时间。
But it does take a bit longer than it would if you were just going to put in a cheap heat pump and off you go.
是的。
Yeah.
contractors特别喜欢的一点是，我之前提到过这种独特的价值。
Now one thing that contractors really like, I mentioned that differentiated value.
所以成交率更高，转化率也更高，因为这是一款非常有差异化的商品。
So it is a higher close rate, a high conversion rate because it's a very differentiated product.
当你坐在厨房餐桌前，告诉客户我这套系统能调节用电负荷、降低账单、最大化利用太阳能等等，
It also means if you're coming to the kitchen table saying, I've got a system that's gonna shift load, reduce bills, maximize your use of solar, etcetera.
而你面对的竞争对手，可能是三菱、大金或者莱姆的热泵系统，
And you're competing against, say, somebody who's doing either a Mitsubishi or a Daikin or a Rheem heat pump system.
我的意思是，那些系统确实不错，但几乎没什么区别。
I mean, those are great systems, but they're hardly differentiated.
但如果你带着Harvest系统去见客户，那你手里握着的，是真正与众不同的东西。
And if you're the contractor coming to the table with the harvest system, you've got something which is really quite different.
这能吸引顾客的注意，帮你签下更多订单。
That gets customers' attention and that allows you to close more deals.
我们确实收到了大量消费者的关注。
We do have a lot of consumer interest.
有很多人主动联系了我们。
We have a lot of folks reaching out to us.
我们目前有一份消费者的等候名单。
We have a waitlist of consumers.
因此，我们能为承包商，尤其是刚入行的，提供他们所在邮编区域的优质潜在客户线索。
So we are actually able to give our contractors, particularly as they start out, warm qualified leads of customers in their zip codes.
承包商很喜欢这一点，因为这样他们就能直接去签单，省了不少时间。
And contractors like that because then they can go and close the deal, and it saves them time.
既省钱，又让他们能专心做自己最擅长的事——安装系统。
It saves them money, and allows them to do what they do best, which is installing systems.
简，你刚才提到了邮编区域。
So Jane, you just mentioned zip codes.
你能详细说说，目前在全国哪些地方正在安装这些系统吗？
Can you tell us a bit more about where you have systems currently being installed around the country?
是的。
Yeah.
你们在美国或其他地方的哪些区域正在安装系统？
What locations in The US or in other places are you installing systems?
我们先从加利福尼亚开始。
So we start in California.
我就坐在这里。
That's where I'm sitting right now.
刚开始的时候，尤其是部署实体设备，都会先从本地做起，现在我们在这里已经安装了数百套系统。
So you start close to home, particularly when you're deploying physical widgets, and that's where we have hundreds of systems deployed right now.
不过我们也在其他地方有部署，最北到加拿大的埃德蒙顿。
But we do also have systems in other places, as far north as Edmonton, Alberta.
在极寒的埃德蒙顿，我们的系统运行得非常好，同样在佛蒙特、科罗拉多、华盛顿和俄勒冈也都有部署。
So in ultra cold Edmonton, Alberta, we've got our harbor systems deployed and working really well, as well as in Vermont, as well as in Colorado, Washington and Oregon.
接下来，我们可能会先在德克萨斯州试试水。
Next on the list, we might be putting our toe in the water in Texas.
我特别期待这件事，可能就在未来几个月内展开。
I'm really excited about that, and that may be happening in the next few months.
这真让人兴奋。
Oh, exciting.
德克萨斯的电力市场非常独特，去那里确实有太多理由了。
Texas certainly has a very interesting electricity market, so I can there's all kinds of reasons to go to Texas next.
没错。
Absolutely.
那里有很多领先企业，我们也非常期待能在那里开展合作。
They got a lot of leadership there, and we're looking forward to working there too.
不错。
Nice.
好的。
Alright.
我想再回过头来聊聊我们之前稍微提到过的一个问题。
I wanna circle back to a question we started to kinda get into a little bit.
关于机组出水温度，听起来目前你们的上限大概是150华氏度。
So the water temperature coming out of the unit, it sounds like right now you're capped at around a 150 degrees Fahrenheit.
你们有没有什么建议或未来的改进方案，能帮我们把温度再提上去？
Do you have guidance or solutions, future improvements that you forgot how you can bump that up?
在东北部，这个问题特别关键，因为我们正努力推广更多空气源热水热泵，就拿我在缅因州的家来说，大约90%的住宅都没有风管系统。
It's a big discussion here in the Northeast as we're trying to get more air to water heat pumps installed because, like, where I live in Maine, about 90% of homes don't have any ductwork.
它们全都是水暖系统，而且几乎都装的是高温散热片，原本就是按180华氏度的水温设计的。
They're all hydronic, and they're almost all of them are set up with high temperature baseboard, where they were originally designed for 180 degree water.
我们该怎么帮上这些客户？
How can we help reach those customers?
这确实是个很有意思的挑战，我们也非常清楚这个问题。
That's an interesting challenge and one that we're obviously very aware of.
我觉得接下来有几条路可以走。
And I think there are a couple of paths forward.
一方面，我们最终会扩展所使用的热泵类型。
One is ultimately, we will be diversifying the types of heat pumps that we're able to work with.
随着热泵技术不断提升，能够提供更高温度的水，我们也能随之跟进。
So as heat pumps expand their capabilities and are able to deliver high temperature, we can also do that.
另一方面，虽然这可能不完全回答你的问题，但现在市面上已经出现了新型的水暖散热器，它们可以在较低温度下运行，靠对流供暖，不需要那么高的水温。
The second is, and this may not really solve the question that you're asking for, but there are now emerging baseboard, hydronic baseboard systems that can work at lower temperatures, right, that use convection that can work at lower temperatures.
我们已经把系统和这种散热器搭配使用了。
And we have deployed our systems with those as well.
所以是这两种方式的结合。
So it is that combination.
另外还有一种办法，就是继续用现有的散热器，只不过因为水温只有150度而不是180度，它们散发的热量会少一些。
There is also a way where you can use existing baseboards and what's going to happen is that they're not going to emit quite as much heat as they would with the higher temperature because it's 150 or 180.
你可以考虑在散热器串的末端加装一个对流器。
What you can do is add, say, a single convector at the end of that series.
明白吗？
Right?
所以你的目标是从水中提取更多的热量。
So what you want to do is you want to extract more heat out of the water.
如果在散热器末端加一个对流器，就有可能在设计过程中满足房屋所需的供暖量。
And so if you add a single convect at the end of your baseboard heating, you may be able to this is part of the design process deliver the heat that you need into the home.
因此在设计时要多动脑筋，确保能有效传递足够的热量。
So you want to be thoughtful and creative in that design process and making sure you're delivering the heat.
不过这些方法我们已经在不少住宅中实际应用过了。
But there are ways in that these are things that we have done in a range of homes.
明白了。
Got it.
有道理。
Makes sense.
其实市面上有各种不同的水暖散热设备，比如风机盘管、欧洲风格的，甚至老式的散热器。
So you can just use I mean, there's all kinds of different hydronic emitters that are out there, whether it's fan coils or more European style or even old fashioned emitters.
只要表面积足够大，即使水温低一点，也能输出足够的热量。
That if you get enough surface area, maybe get enough BTUs out with a lower temperature.
或者在现有住宅里多加几个散热器，这样或许就能更接近目标了。
Or just adding extra emitters to an existing home that can might, you know, get you closer to.
这可能是最经济划算的办法。
That may be the most cost effective way.
保留你现有的散热器，再在末端加一个或两个。
Keep the emitters you've got and add one at the end or add two at the end.
这样就能提供你所需的额外热量了。
That's gonna give you that extra boost of heat that you need.
完全正确。
Totally.
我得问一下，接下来我想的是，最高温度其实取决于水流速度和你输入系统的能量多少。
And I have to ask because the next piece that I think about is, well, the maximum temperature is really a function of the flow rate and how much energy you're kinda putting into your system.
那我们能不能再加一个室外机，直接连到储热系统上？
So can we just add another outdoor unit to plug into your storage?
这样单位时间内就能输入更多热能，或许就能达到更高的温度了。
You get kind of more thermal energy going in per unit time, and then maybe we can get to a higher temperature.
你们现在有在做类似的事情，好让输入的能量能再提升一些吗？
Are you working on things like that so that you could just boost that input energy?
我的意思是，室外安装多少台热泵，取决于这家人一天24小时需要多少英热单位的热量。
I mean, how many heat pumps we put outside is dependent on how many BTU of heat does the household need in twenty four hour period.
如果一台热泵满足不了需求，那绝对应该加装一台。
That exceeds what one heat pump can deliver, you should absolutely be doubling up.
如果不需要，那问题就出在分配上：你能在合适的时间内，从热水箱里送出多少热量？
If it's not, then it's more a question of the distribution, which is: do you have how much heat can you deliver from that hot water tank in a suitable time.
所以这时候关键在于热量的输送能力。
So it's a question of your delivery at that point.
我们的做法是控制热水流经空气处理单元的流速。
What we do is we manage the speed, the flow of the hot water going through the air handler.
这可以通过两种方式来调节。
And you can manage it in two ways.
如果你让水流得慢一点，就能最大化能效。
If you're going to keep that flow nice and slow, you can optimise for efficiency.
我们的温差大约是60度。
We have a delta T of about 60 degrees.
也就是说，热水进入液压线圈时，出来的时候温度降低了60度。
So what that means is the hot water going into the hydraulic coil, when it comes out, is 60 degrees lower.
这意味着我们把水中原本60度的热量传到了屋里。
That means we've transferred 60 degrees of heat that was in that water into the home.
如果你想加快供暖速度，可以加大水流。
If you want to accelerate heating delivery, you might do is you might increase the flow.
虽然效率会降低，但能输送更多热量。
You're going to reduce the efficiency, but you're going to be delivering more heat.
我们的系统正好能做到这一点。
And our system is able to do that.
我们设备里有个可调水泵，一旦需要供暖，就能加快水流速度。
We have a variable pump inside the pod, which when there is a call for heat, we're able to accelerate that delivery.
如果你刚从度假回来，家里冷得厉害，急需快速升温，系统就会先加大水流快速加热，等温度稳定后再调回低流量模式。
If you need more heat than say you're eating at the home, you've come away from vacation, your house is cold and you need to heat it up quickly, we may be be in a mode where we're going to actually accelerate the flow to get it up, and then we're going to go back to the low flow to keep it stable.
这说得通。
Makes sense.
所以，这种可变流量正是我们使用的一个关键手段。
So it's that variable flow, which is one of the levers that we use.
至于容量，我们只需要选对室外热泵的合适大小就行。
But in terms of capacity, we just wanna size it so you got the right capacity heat pump outside the house.
对。
Yeah.
这说得通。
Makes sense.
我还有两个关于安装商的问题想问一下。
I've got, I think, two more contractor oriented questions on this.
听你这么一说，我想到分销商的技术支持团队对很多安装商来说是个很大的优势。
And listening to that answer, it sparked for me the technical support teams at a distributor are a big selling point for a lot of contractors.
我听说，我可以随时打电话给本地某家分销商负责三菱技术支援的那个人。
I've heard, I can call this guy who runs Mitsubishi tech support at x distributor in my area Anytime.
二十四小时，他都会接电话。
24 and he answers.
只要我在现场，他都会帮我解答问题。
And he'll answer my question if I'm on-site.
我需要这样的支持。
I need that.
你们是新公司。
You guys are new company.
你们自己在管分销渠道。
You're sort of managing the distribution on your own.
你们给安装商提供什么样的技术支持？
What does the technical support look like for contractors for you guys?
我们一个关键优势是现场运营团队。
So I'd say one of our secret sources is our field operations team.
我们的现场运营团队非常出色。
So we have really, really good field operations team.
所以如果有什么问题，你随时都可以打给我们。
And so if there is a question, you can call us pretty much anytime.
对吧？
Right?
周末也好，其他时间也好，我们都会接电话。
Weekends, etcetera, etcetera, and we will answer that call.
不过在那之前，这个设备其实特别智能，我们有仪表盘实时监控每个系统的运行状态。
I'd say upstream of that though, this is a really smart device and we have dashboards monitoring what's happening in every system.
通常还没等业主或承包商发现，我们就已经知道出问题了。
So we typically know before the homeowner and the contractor if something's amiss.
我们知道系统有没有完成调试。
We know if the system's been properly commissioned.
我们知道所有阀门是不是都接对了。
We know if all the valves are connected properly.
我们还能知道你是不是该给盘管除垢了，尤其是水质比较硬的情况。
We know if you need to descale your coil because you've got hard water.
这些情况我们都能提前掌握。
We know all that ahead of time.
所以我们通常会提醒承包商：你得去处理一下这个，再检查一下那个，让他们能提前安排好工作。
So we typically are saying to a contractor, wait a minute, you better go and do this, you better go and do that, and so they can plan ahead of time.
这实际上非常有价值。
So that is actually really valuable.
我们的多户住宅业主——毕竟我们不只服务独栋家庭，也覆盖多户住宅——都能通过仪表盘查看所有单元的状态，知道所有单元都正常运行，或者需要为25号单元安排维护。
And our multi family property owners, because we're not just doing single family home, we're also doing multi family homes, they have a dashboard of all their units and they're able to see, yeah, all my units are working fine, or I need to go and plan and make this change in Unit number 25.
不用非得在周日下午跑一趟。
I don't have to do it on a Sunday afternoon.
可以提前规划，选在周四早上就处理好。
I could plan ahead and make sure it's done on a Thursday morning.
这真的很重要。
This really matters.
而我们正是在提供这样的支持。
But, we are delivering that type of support.
目前由我们来管理这个仪表盘，但不久之后，我们的承包商也会拥有自己的仪表盘，可以实时查看他们所有设备的运行情况。
Right now, we are owning the dashboard, but there is a near term where our contractors will have a dashboard for all their units, and they'll be able to see what's happening in my deployments.
一切正常吗？
Is everything fine?
我待会要去这个邮编区域。
I'm going to this zip code.
要不要顺便去看看那边的人？
Do I need to go and see somebody at the same time?
说实话，我觉得这才是未来的发展方向。
I think that's the future rate track, to be honest.
对吧？
Right?
这正是智能设备的未来，而Harvest就是一款智能设备。
It's that's the future of smart devices, and and Harvest is a smart device.
我们最近刚做了一期节目，邀请了开利、大金和LG的代表一起参与。
We actually we just had a episode out with reps from at all at the same time, Carrier, Daikin, and LG.
是的
Yep.
令人意外的是，对话最后几乎全围绕着这种互联洞察展开。
And the conversation surprisingly ended up centering around that sort of connected insight a ton.
你们有这个功能真是太好了。
So that's awesome you have that.
这让我更想问我的第二个问题了。
And that makes me wanna ask my second question even more.
如果承包商想联系你们，他们该怎么做？
If a contractor wants to get in touch with you guys, what should they do?
访问 harvestthermal.com，点顶部给承包商的页面，然后点击那个按钮，我们几天内就会打电话给你。
So harvestthermal.com, go to the page for contractors at the top, and click on the button, and we can we'll be on the phone with you following couple of days.
太好了。
Awesome.
好的，简。
Alright, Jane.
太有意思了。
Super fun.
回答得真好。
Great answers.
我对这个系统特别感兴趣。
I'm intrigued by this system.
你们已经筹集了不少资金。
You guys have raised a good amount of money.
用户增长也很不错，技术前景非常有潜力。
You've had a good amount of traction, really promising technology.
你们未来有什么打算？
What does the future look like for you guys?
接下来的一两年里，你们希望实现什么？
Next twelve, twenty four months, like, what are you hoping to do?
具体想达成哪些目标？
What are hoping to accomplish?
现在对于任何涉及电气化的事情来说，都是特别激动人心的时刻，尤其是电气化结合储能，因为有太多事情正在发生。
So this is really exciting times for anybody electrification, and particularly, you've got electrification and storage because of so many things happening.
电网容量、数据中心、成本上升、可再生能源政策要求，种种因素交织在一起。
This confluence of grid capacity and data centers and rising costs and renewable energy mandates and so on and so forth.
所以我看到多个趋势正在同时发生。
So I see multiple things happening.
其中一个就是灵活的电力容量。
One is that flexible capacity.
我们的一千套设备就能释放出十兆瓦的电力容量。
Our ability, thousand units is freeing up 10 megawatts of capacity.
这对电力公司，还有像数据中心这样的用电方来说，价值非常大。
That is real valuable, really valuable to utilities as well as to off takers such as data centers.
我们正越来越多地与能源供应商合作，为用户提供更优惠的电价，实现三方共赢：电力公司和电网运营商能更好地调度，用户也能省钱。
So we're seeing growing partnerships with energy providers to offer rates to consumers to help them have this win win win where utilities and grid operators benefit from shifting and consumers save money.
这对大家来说都是好事。
And that is is going to be good for all of us.
这正是一个正在兴起的领域，我们正在积极投入，而Harvest能够有效解决当前电网面临的这些关键问题。
So that's something that's emerging and that we're working on and that where Harvest can really help solve these key problems that are facing energy grid.
另外，还有一件事很快就会进入市场，那就是关于家庭用户和成本的问题——你们应该都注意到，很多针对家庭用户的热泵税收抵免政策在2025年底就取消了。
And then in terms of something else that's I think you'll see coming to market very soon is when we think about homeowners and costs, think we've all seen that many of the heat pump, say, tax credits for homeowners disappeared at the end of twenty twenty five.
但热能存储系统不一样，特别是由第三方拥有时，这些政策依然有效。
That's not the case for thermal energy storage, for third party owned thermal energy storage.
税法里其实有一项叫做48E的条款，明确规定，只要是第三方拥有的热能存储系统，就可以享受税收抵免。
There's actually something called 48e in the tax code, which is a tax credit including thermal energy storage systems if they're third party owned.
这意味着，如果你是多户住宅的业主，依然可以为安装Harvest系统获得30%到40%的税收减免。
That means if you're a multi family property owner out there, you can actually still get a 30 or 40% tax credit of a harvest system.
同样，如果 homeowners 选择租赁这类第三方拥有的系统，他们也能享受到这项税收优惠。
But it also means that homeowners will be able to benefit from that tax credit if it is a third party owned system, such as a leased system.
所以，未来市场上很可能会出现空调系统的租赁方案——先租后买，零首付、按月付款，最后还能拥有设备。
So I think you can expect to see coming to the market the option of leasing HVAC system, lease to buy at the end of the day, which allows you to deploy the system without any money down, monthly payments, and then at the end own the system.
而这样做的好处之一，就是让你能直接享受到税收抵免带来的成本节省。
And part of that is allowing you to benefit from the savings of the tax credit.
一方面是公用事业公司，另一方面是租赁模式。
So utilities one side, and then leases are the other side.
这些正是我们目前正在积极推进的事情，接下来几个月我们会提供更多细节。
These are things that we're working actively on, and we should be able to tell you more about in the coming months.
太棒了。
Very cool.
听起来简直不可思议。
Sounds incredible.
homeowner 从第一天起就能实现正向现金流。
The idea of a homeowner being essentially cash flow positive on day one.
他们用更低的租赁费用取代了高昂的电费账单，还能省下钱。
They're exchanging their high utility bills for a lower lease payment and seeing savings.
真是个绝佳的机会。
What a cool opportunity.
希望你们真能做成这件事。
I hope you guys can pull that off.
当然。
Absolutely.
我会随时向你更新进展。
I'll keep you updated.
好的。
Alright.
简，这次交流太棒了。
Jane, this has been awesome.
我们最后总会问一个问题：对于想要打造成功热泵业务的承包商，你会推荐他们去哪里获取资源？
The question we always ask at the end is for contractors who are looking to build successful heat pump focused businesses, what is a resource you'd point them towards?
考虑到你在这一领域的定位，我特别想知道你的答案。
And I'm quite curious in your answer given where you play in the space.
是的。
Yeah.
你会建议大家去关注哪些资源？
What would your point folks towards?
说到打造一家暖通空调企业，我首先建议多了解热泵，还有热能储存方面的知识。
In terms of building an HVAC business, so I mean, I would first of all say, find out more about heat pumps, find out about thermal energy storage.
我们在官网、博客上也会分享不少这方面的信息。
We try and share a fair amount of information on that on our website, blogs, and so on and so forth.
这个问题其实挺难回答的。
It's a really tough question.
在我发展这家公司的过程中，最关键的一步就是找到合适的人才。
I mean, what one I've been trying growing this business, one of the key things for me is making sure I have the right people on board.
所以我们一直在思考该怎么招到对的人，我相信其他承包商也都在面对同样的问题。
And so it's been about how do we recruit people appropriately, and I'm sure contractors are facing that.
你怎么找到合适的销售人才？
How do you get the right salespeople?
怎么招到称职的行政人员？
How do you get the right administrative people?
又该怎么吸引优秀的安装人员加入？
How do get the right contractors on board?
所以我一直在用一些资源，比如有一本书叫《Who？》
And so I've been using resources such as there's a book called Who?
你可能听说过，这本书提供了一套清晰又可复制的方法，帮助你招到合适的人，融入团队文化，确保工作表现达标。
That you might be familiar with, which is really, really also in terms of a nice and repeatable methodology for making sure you get the right people on board, you have the right culture fit, you have the right performance.
这对我帮助特别大。
So that's been really helpful.
所以如果有人想扩大团队、找到对的人，我会推荐他们去看这本书。
So I I would point folks who are looking to expand their team and get the right folks on board, I'd point them in that direction.
你听说过这本书吗？
Who do you are you familiar with that book?
作者是杰克·斯马特。
It's by Jack Jack Smart.
对。
Yeah.
我上一家公司面试时就用过《Who？》这套方法，听起来有点特别，但真的挺棒的。
My last company I worked at used the who method for interviewing, which is like kind of wild, but very cool.
是的
Yeah.
我们在Harvest就是这样做的。
That's what we do at Harvest.
我发现这真的非常有用。
So I found that has been really, really useful.
除此之外，我们的网站上还有很多资源。
And apart from that, we have a lot of resources on our website.
我还推荐你去看看Rewiring America以及其他关于热泵、补贴和价值主张的优质资源。
I'd point you also to the Rewiring America and other really good resources out there for heat pumps and incentives and value proposition.
回答得很好。
Great answer.
简，非常感谢你参加这期热泵播客。
Jane, thank you so much for joining the heat pump podcast.
谢谢你，埃德。
Thank you, Ed.
谢谢，埃里克。
Thank you, Eric.
很高兴能参加。
It's been a pleasure.
是的。
Yeah.
特别有意思。
It was really fun.
非常感谢。
Thanks so much.
感谢收听热泵播客。
Thanks for listening to the Heap Pump Podcast.
本节目由Amply Energy制作。
It is a production of Amply Energy.
请留意，节目中表达的观点均来自嘉宾或我们自己，视发言者而定。
And just a reminder that the opinions voiced were those of our guests or us depending on who was talking.
如果你喜欢刚才听到的内容，还没订阅的话，欢迎在你常用的播客平台订阅我们。
If you like what you've heard and haven't subscribed, please subscribe in your favorite podcast platform.
我们很期待听到你的反馈，随时欢迎联系。
We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to reach out.
你可以再次通过 hello@Amply.energy.No.comjust.energy 和我们取得联系。
You can reach us once again at hello@Amply.energy.No.comjust.energy.
非常感谢。
Thanks a lot.
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