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好的。
Alright.
今天会有几个朋友过来。
So today, got some friends coming in.
是的。
Yes.
我们请来了两位节目嘉宾。
We got two friends of the show.
我甚至不知道我们要聊什么，但我们会和他们俩一起进去的。
I don't even know what we're gonna talk about, but we'll get in I mean, with these two.
是的。
Yeah.
你永远无法预料。
You never know.
你知道的，事情总是难以预料。
You know you never know.
你真有趣。
You've got fun.
你们俩自我介绍一下吧？
Why don't you guys introduce yourself?
我是查尔斯，查理汉堡的创始人。
I'm Charles, founder of Charlie's Burger.
我是詹姆斯。
I'm James.
节目的朋友。
Friends of the show.
我以前来过这里。
I've been on here before.
我每年从美国来一次，所以是上海人。
I visit from The States about once a year, so Shanghainese.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，其实你们两位之前都上过这个节目。
Well, actually, both of you have been on the show before.
哦，对的。
Oh, yeah.
所以老听众都知道你们是谁。
So long time listeners will know who you guys are.
总之，我们开始吧。
Anyway, let's get into it.
我是贾斯汀。
I'm Justin.
我是豪伊。
I'm Howie.
这里是《诚饮》节目。
This is The Honest Drink.
请大家为查尔斯和詹姆斯鼓掌。
Please give it up for Charles and James.
测试测试，一二一。
Check check one two one.
那么今天的话题是什么？
So what is the topic today?
既然我们已经开始了，那就先聊聊孩子们吧
Let's start with the kids first since we got the ball rolling
好的。
between Okay.
那你们
So have you
真的聊过PTSD的事情吗？
guys actually talked about the PTSD ever?
没有。
No.
你是说有了孩子之后，那种创伤后应激障碍的——等等。
You mean after having children, the PTSD of Hold on.
所以，詹姆斯，你知道，你结婚了。
So James, you know, you're married.
你结婚已经有一段时间了。
You've been married for a while.
十二年了。
Twelve years.
是的。
Yeah.
但没有孩子，也没有计划要，为什么？
But no children, no plans for Why?
绝对不。
Hell no.
等等。
Wait.
但是但是但是，我们之前明明在聊孩子之类的事情，我却从来没问过你。
But but but why why we're having a conversation beforehand about children and stuff like that, and I just never asked you.
为什么要生孩子？
Why why have kids?
为什么要生孩子？
Why have kids?
对啊。
Yeah.
为什么要生孩子？
Why have kids?
我认为这完全是个人的选择。
I think that's totally a personal choice.
如果你不想要孩子，那就不要
If you don't want kids, you don't
想要孩子。
want kids.
这其实是个问号。
It's a it's a it's a question mark, actually.
但人们一生都在想，所以金达拉，生个孩子吧。
But people go through life thinking, so Jindala, have a kid.
对吧？
Right?
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
社会、父母、压力，不管什么。
Society, parent, pressure, whatever.
他们从来没有真正思考过这个问题。
They never really think about the question.
我只是花了更多时间去思考它。
I just took the extra time to think about it.
是的。
Yeah.
然后我在我自己脑子里分析了它。
And then I analyzed it, you know, in my own head.
我觉得那根本一点都不有趣。
I'm like, that's not that's not fun.
什么一点都不有趣？
What's not fun?
整个这件事。
The whole entire thing.
抚养一个属于你的孩子这个完整的过程？
The whole entire process of raising human being that's your child?
你你得到我明白
You you get the I get all
那些美好的部分，甜蜜温馨的时刻。
the good stuff, the lovey dovey stuff.
不。
No.
不。
No.
但你没有。
But you don't.
你没有。
You don't.
你没有。
You don't.
我大概猜到了。
I kinda guessed.
没有。
No.
你没有。
You don't.
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
因为我现在是以盟友的身份在说这些。
Because I'm I'm saying this as an ally right now.
我以盟友的身份这么说，是因为我完全理解你的感受，我本人也曾有过完全相同的念头。
I'm saying this as an ally because your sentiment, I 100% get because I was I mean, I was in the exact same thought.
你会这么想，我完全同意。
You would and I agree a 100%.
比如，如果你做出这个决定，那为什么要生孩子呢？
Like, if you make that decision, like, why have a kid?
为什么呢？
Like, why?
难道仅仅因为社会告诉我们该生孩子，我们就必须生吗？
Just because society tells us to have kids, we have to have kids.
对吧？
Right?
这就像是，我为什么非得去上学？
It's like, why do I have go to, like, school?
为什么必须买房子？
Why do have to buy a house?
所有这些事情，我百分之百同意。
Like, all these things, I a 100% agree.
而且我当时也是那种心态。
And I was also in that mode.
现在回想起来，我可以告诉你的是，尽管我当时自以为很了解有孩子会是什么样子，但其实我一无所知。
And and what I can tell you now looking back on it is that as much as I thought I knew about, like, what it would be like to have a kid, I knew nothing.
我大致分析了其中的利弊得失。
I kind of analyzed it between the pros and cons.
我投入了什么，最终能得到什么，以及我的性格、我妻子的性格。
What I put in and what I get out at the end of the day and my personality, my wife's personality.
如果你把所有因素都考虑进去，作为一个完整的方案，就能做出决定。
If you factor all those into one complete package comes a decision.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Right.
在这个年纪，我足够了解自己，能负责任地回答：孩子不适合我。
I know myself enough at this age where I can have a responsible answer kid of not, it's not for me.
你就是不想当个
You just didn't want be a or a a
当个或
kid or or
或一个，但比如，当你六七十岁的时候呢？
or a or But like, what what if, like, when you're like 60 or 70?
我不知道。
I don't know.
那时候你会不会感到孤单？
Like, like, then would you be lonely?
这也是我在思考的问题。
Like, that's also something I think about.
年轻还是什么？
Young or yeah?
我 我
I I
嗯，这大概是他已经考虑进自己计算中的因素了。
Well, that's probably something he's already factored into his calculations.
而且那是他愿意为没有养育孩子的额外负担而付出的代价。
And that that's a that's a cost that he's willing to pay for not having the extra burden of having a kid.
我会这么说。
I'm a say so.
不知道我是不是在替别人说话
Don't if I'm putting words
说到底，孩子会有他自己的人生。
The kid is gonna have his own life at the end of the day.
现在呢，对吧，我难道24小时都和我爸待在一起吗？
Right now, right, am I spending time with my dad twenty four seven?
对吧？
Right?
他希望我24小时陪着吗？不。
Does he want me to be there twenty four no.
事情不是这样的。
It doesn't work out like that.
所以，这个
So The
你对当父亲的价值怎么看？至少对你来说，是不是被高估了？
value you put on being a dad, you think is overrated for you at least?
我认为，一个人投入的时间、精力、承诺和责任，这些只是其中一半。
I think the amount of investment that not money, That a person in into a time, the energy, the commitment, the responsibility, that's only half.
还有另一半人们很少谈论，那就是担忧。
There's other half people don't talk about, the worry.
从幼儿到上学，他能过得好吗？
Is he gonna be okay from toddler to school?
他在学校能表现得好吗？
Is he gonna do well in school?
毕业了，他能找到好工作吗？
Graduation, is he gonna get a good job?
他能找到合适的搭配吗？
Is he gonna find a good mix?
你这是
You're
你这一生都会为他担心。
gonna be worrying throughout your life for him as well.
是的。
Yeah.
我真的想经历这些吗？
Do I wanna do I wanna go through that?
我是在事情发生之前就主动做出这些决定。
I'm I'm making these active decisions prior to the fact.
对吧？
Right?
要仔细考虑清楚，你知道的，而不是草率决定。
To think it all over and, you know, versus, okay.
苏珊宝贝，我们生一个吧。
Susan doll, let's have one.
不。
No.
这很有意思。
That's interesting.
那太好了。
That's great.
不是的。
No.
我尊重这一点。
I respect that.
尤其是和伴侣一起做出决定，要清醒而主动，而不是懵懵懂懂地陷入某种情况。
Especially with a partner to make that decision clear headedly and actively instead of, you know, just like stumbling into something.
即使在建立关系之前，你也应该了解你约会的对象。
Even prior to the relationship, I think you should know who you're dating.
因为如果你约会的对象打心底里想要孩子，他们开口第一句话可能就是‘我想当妈妈’。
Because if you're dating a person that absolutely wants a baby, I want to be a mom like the first word that came out of their mouth.
你得在这一点上好好反省自己。
You gotta check yourself there.
是的。
Yeah.
就像
Like
我想是这样。
I guess so.
对。
Yes.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
你得看看你们的目标是否一致。
Well, you have to see if your goals are aligned.
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
这很难。
It's tough.
这很难。
It's tough.
我的意思是，我会这么说。
I mean, I I would say this.
这是我在生孩子之后才明白的道理。
This is something I've learned post kid.
对吧？
Right?
只有有了孩子，你才算真正结婚了。
It's you're not actually married until you have a kid.
从我跟妻子约会，到订婚，再到法律上结婚，我们的关系根本没有改变。
The relationship I had with my wife when we were just dating to when we got engaged to when we were legally married didn't change at all.
我们还是原来那对情侣。
We were still the same couple.
我们的相处模式也一直没变。
Our dynamic was still the same.
我们还是做着同样的事情。
We're still doing the same things.
即使我们已经结婚了，还是点外卖、睡懒觉、窝在沙发上整晚看电影，想做什么就做什么。
We were ordering in, sleeping late, you know, cuddling up on the couch, watching movies all night long, doing whatever we wanted to do whenever we wanted to do it even though we were married.
直到你真正有了孩子，养育孩子的责任、压力和风险，所有这些都升级了。
It's not until you actually have a kid and the responsibility and the pressure and the stakes of having a kid, all that elevates.
然后你才意识到，哦，我现在是已婚状态了。
Then you realize, oh, I'm in a marriage now.
就好像这才是真正的婚姻。
It's like it's like it's an actual marriage.
彼此之间有了责任。
There's responsibilities to each other.
有了孩子就有了责任。
There's responsibility to a kid.
有了劳动分工。
There's division of labor.
还有资源的分配，无论是物质上还是精神上的。
There's division of resources, both, you know, like physically and mentally.
需要形成一种真正的伙伴关系，或者说理想情况下，必须建立起真正的伙伴关系，才能高效地共同完成这项使命。
There's a a real partnership or ideally, a real partnership has to actually form for you to carry out this mission, you know, together in a productive way.
当你意识到现在必须与这个人合作，彼此之间有了互动和依赖，你才会明白，哦，原来如此。
And so when you realize that you actually have to work with this person now, and you actually there's a back and forth, and there's a reliance on each other now, then you realize, oh, okay.
这实际上已经变成一段真正的关系了。
Well, this is actually a real relationship now.
在孩子出生前，我可以随时离开，做我想做的事，她也可以做她想做的事，彼此之间不会有任何后果。
Whether before before the kid, I could just bounce out and do whatever I wanted, she could do whatever I wanted, there would be really no consequences to each other or to anything.
对吧？
Right?
我们当时是自由的。
We were free.
但一旦有了孩子，你才会意识到，这段关系必须多么牢固，才能让婚姻维持下去，让孩子在积极的环境中成长。
But once you have that kid, then you realize how important the strength of that relationship has to be in order for that marriage to stay intact, in order for the the kid to grow up in in a in a positive environment.
为了让你拥有基本的生活质量，理想情况下还能拥有更幸福的生活，你真的必须建立起一种真正的伙伴关系。
Just in order for you to have a a general quality of life and ideally a happier quality of life, you really you really has to be it's like, it's a real true partnership at that point.
而我直到有了孩子之后，才真正理解了这一点。
Whereas I never really understood that until after having a kid.
这说明了，是的，孩子会给这段关系带来巨大的压力和负担。
And it speaks to the fact that, yeah, a kid puts a tremendous amount of stress and pressure on on the thing.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我认为你之前说的没错，你直到有了孩子之后，才真正理解了婚姻这个概念或感受。
So I think that what you were saying about you don't really you didn't really understand marriage, the idea or the feeling of marriage until you had the kid.
很多人对婚姻的定义，显然是两个人的结合。
A lot of people define marriage as, obviously, the the union of two people.
在更西方的观念里，这仅仅是两个人之间的事。
In a more western way, it's just per just one on one.
你很少会想到两个家庭的融合。
You don't really think too much about families coming together.
你只想着我们两个人。
You just think about us.
对吧？
Right?
在这里，这种结合更偏向家庭层面。
Here, the union's a lot more familial.
是的。
Yeah.
从传统意义上讲，是两个家庭的结合，而这正是关键所在——哦，现在我们才算真正名正言顺了。
It's two sides of family coming together in a traditional sense, and that becomes that difference maker of, oh, now we're now we're legit.
现在才算真正成真了。
Now it's now it's real.
对吧？
Right?
但从关系的角度我能理解。
But I get it from a relationship wise.
对我来说也是一样。
Same thing for me as well.
一旦签了文件，我们就算'结婚'了，但日常生活没有任何改变。
Once the papers were signed, we're quote unquote married, nothing changed from our day to day.
但直到孩子出生后，一切才真的变了。
But until the kids came, then, oh Everything changed.
一切都变了。
Everything changed.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
突然间，这种两个人之间的伙伴关系不再只是关心‘我们吃什么’，而是更多地变成了妥协、沟通，以及共同决定该做什么。
Then all of a sudden, not only was the idea of this partnership between one and another person became more about compromise, communication, figuring out what to do as opposed to what are we gonna eat?
我们去哪儿？
Where are we gonna go?
你知道的。
You know?
今天看什么电影？
What movie are we gonna watch today?
简单来说，孩子就像是加速这一过程的催化剂。
Here here to simplify, the kid is an accelerant, okay, to that process.
没有孩子，你们仍然可以互相了解、学会妥协等等。
You could still go through and learn about each other, compromise all that stuff without the kid as well.
但孩子就像催化剂，砰的一声。
But the kid adds in the accelerant, bam.
现在你们今天就必须把这事给解决了。
Now you got you guys gotta figure this shit out today.
我…我会说它是一种催化剂。
I I would I would say it's a catalyst.
催化剂。
Catalyst.
是的。
Yes.
加速剂意味着即使没有孩子你最终也会达到那个目标，但我认为情况不一定如此。
An accelerant implies that you would eventually reach that goal without the kid anyway, which I don't think is necessarily the case.
当然，生活中也可能有其他因素介入，即使没有孩子。
Now, of course, there can be other factors that come into your life without having a kid.
也许你们经历了一些真正的困难，你知道，那些与孩子无关的事情，也能催化出那种相互依赖的关系。
Maybe you guys go through some real hardships, you know, you know, that have nothing to do with kid that also can catalyze that kind of dependency on each other.
但除非有什么能真正戏剧性地提高赌注、增加压力，就像往齿轮里扔扳手那样，否则你们永远不会真正考验这段关系，而关系在我看也无法真正超越其萌芽阶段。
But unless you have something that can really dramatically raise the stakes, raise the pressure, put the hard like, put that wrench in the gears, so to speak, then you never really test the relationship, and a relationship can never really kind of grow beyond its embryonic kind of stage in my mind.
我觉得直到你意识到，哦，我真的必须依赖你，而你也真的必须依赖我。
I feel like until you realize, oh, I really have to rely on you and you really have to rely on me.
就像，这有点像生死攸关的场景。
Like, it's kind of like a life and death scenario.
那一切就只是玩玩而已。
Then it's all just fun and games.
除非是那样，否则一切就只是玩玩而已。
Unless that's the case, it's all just fun and games.
我想提出一个问题，真的有必要测试到那种程度吗？
I would pose the question, does that even need to be tested though to that extent?
没必要。
No.
不需要。
It doesn't.
不需要。
It doesn't.
你完全可以顺利度过一生。
You can go through life with just fine.
而且你完全可以非常快乐地
And you can be perfectly happy that
方式
way.
是的
Yeah.
或者你可以
Or you could
我不是说哪种方式更好或不好
I'm not saying one way is better or not.
我只是想说，这种变化是真实存在的。
I'm just saying it's just the the change is real.
这种变化绝对是真实的。
The change is definitely real.
是的。
Yeah.
这种变化绝对是真实的。
The change is definitely real.
是的。
Yeah.
而且我认为确实如此。
And I think yeah.
就像，在我看来，有孩子和没有孩子的关系完全是不同层次的关系，这是根据我个人的经历得出的看法。
Like, you don't the the relationship is just it's just a whole different order of relationship between kid and not kid, in in my opinion, from what I, you know, personally went through.
这里有个问题。
Here here's a question.
我认为这会随着时间改变。
I think this it'll it'll it'll change over time.
因为这到底是什么？
Cause this is what?
你已经三年了。
You're three years into it.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
相比之下，十年后，或者更久以后。
Versus ten years into it versus, you know, longer.
但在这个阶段，三年了，因为你现在了解了这件事的两面。
But at this point, three years, because now you know both sides of this the story.
如果你能重新选择是否要孩子，你会要吗？
If you get to make that decision again to have a kid, would you have one?
我想，在第一年内，是的。
I think, like, within the first year Yeah.
说实话，是的。
To be honest Yeah.
在第一年内，如果你问我这个问题，我会说我会选择不要孩子。
Within the first year, if you were to ask me this, I would say I would choose not to have a kid.
对。
Right.
但随着时间推移，情况会改变
But it changes over
在第一年里，我会说，如果让我重新来过一次的话
that first year, I I would I would have I would said, you know, if I were to redo everything again
对。
Yep.
至少，我会推迟要孩子。
I'd, at the very least, they'll postpone the kid.
我不能说我不想要孩子。
I I can't say I wouldn't have the kid.
对。
Right.
但我认为，我可能会推迟一下。
But I say, like, I'd probably push it off.
对。
Right.
现在过了两三年，我和我儿子的关系真的变了。
Two years, three years in now, my relationship with my son has really changed.
我们以前聊过这个，因为第一年的时候，他们只是婴儿。
And we spoke about this before because when the first year, they're just babies.
他们其实并不怎么和你互动。
They're not really interacting with you.
他们就像一堆会动的肉，你得照顾这么一堆活着的肉。
They're just like living thick meats, like a living pile of meat that you had to take care of.
对吧？
Right?
直到他们开始说话，开始形成自己的个性。
Until they start speaking and they start becoming their own person.
一块真正可爱的肉。
A real cute piece of meat.
是的。
Yeah.
一块真正可爱的肉。
A real cute piece of meat.
你知道，直到他们开始发育，你才会真正开始与他们建立那种社会纽带。
You know, until they start developing, then you really start forming that social bond with them.
而现在，如果你问我那个问题，我无法想象自己会说不想再要孩子了。
And now, if you ask me that question, I couldn't imagine saying I wouldn't have the kid again.
百分之百我会再要一个。
Like, a 100% I would have it again.
所以这些你现在正在积累的感受，你已经把这些情感打包存在脑海里了。
So the the feelings, those feelings that you're accumulating now that you're feeling, and so you have that package in your head already.
所以，天啊。
So it's like, oh, shit.
这太棒了，根本不再是个问题。
This is so good that it's not even a question anymore.
以前这还是个问题，我当时觉得这太棒了。
Whereas before it was a question, I was like, it's so good.
我绝对想确认一下这种感觉。
I would definitely want this feeling checked.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
完全不会犹豫。
No second guess at all.
因为那是一个巨大的
Because that's a that's a huge
是的。
Yeah.
我想补充一点。
I wanna add something to this.
我没有具体的数据来支持这一点，但我感觉生完孩子后和之前在荷尔蒙上很不一样。
I don't have particular data to back this up, but I feel hormonally different after having children as opposed to before.
荷尔蒙上。
Hormonally.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
我记得你之前跟我提过这件事。
I remember you telling me this.
你更容易哭了。
You cry you out more.
我敏感多了。
I'm much more sensitive.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我的整个思维方式，我认为部分原因是责任感，以及我大脑运作的方式，我思考问题的方式。
I'm my whole mindset in terms of I think it's it's partly responsibility, just the way my mind works, the way I think about things.
在某些决策方面，我不再那么犹豫不决，而过去我可能会优柔寡断。
It's a it's a lot less wishy washy in terms of certain decision making that I'm that I may have been indecisive in the past.
但现在因为要考虑孩子们，事情变得更为...
But now because I have to think about the children, things become much more
长远的视角。
long term view of things.
对吧？
Right?
某种程度上是的。
Oh, in a way.
某种程度上是的。
In a way.
所以从荷尔蒙的角度来说，我根本无法预料到会发生这种事。
And so hormonally, this is something I could never have guessed that this would happen.
我不是说以前看电影时从不哭，但现在就连贾斯汀谈到我是否要孩子时，我突然想到孩子们将来不在身边的情景，就忍不住开始感到
I I I'm not saying I never cried when I watched a film or anything, but now just even when Justin was talking about would I ever have kids, all of sudden, I thought about my kids not being around anymore, and I started getting a
有点情绪化。
little bit emotional.
所以你现在一直在哭吗？
So are you crying all the time now?
不停地哭。
Nonstop.
就连我开玩笑的时候也是。
Even when I'm taking the I'm kidding.
但不，我真的会。
But, no, I do.
我真的会。
I do.
我现在对事情的情绪反应比以前强烈多了。
I do react to things a lot more emotionally than I used to be.
你之前也承认过。
You you you admitted it too before.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
没有。
No.
不。
No.
它
It
别用那种眼神看我，好像我还在中
Don't don't look at me like I'm in middle
晚上。
the night.
我知道。
I know.
知道。
Know.
知道。
Know.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
现在眼泪来得容易多了。
Tears come a lot easier now.
现在它们来得容易多了。
They come a lot easier now.
那是荷尔蒙失调。
That is a hormonal imbalance.
但是，就像你之前说的，詹姆斯，我不会把它描述为好的。
But, like, to what you were saying, James, before, I would not characterize it as good.
并不是说，哦，现在感觉太好了所以我当然——我不是那样想的。
It's not like, oh, it's so the feeling is so good now that I of course, it's not that's not how I think about it.
我的想法是，我现在如此热爱这件事，它已经吞噬了我，我无法想象没有这份爱的生活。
I think about it is that I love this thing so much now that it's consumed me, and I couldn't imagine living without that love.
这就是我如何
And that's how I would
描述它。
describe it.
就像说，詹姆斯，想象一下你生活中最亲近的那个人，无论他是谁，现在这个人已经不在了。
It's like saying, James, imagine you the the closest person you have in your life, whoever that is, and that person is now no longer around.
如果我问你，你希望你从未认识过这个人吗，因为
Would you if I asked you, do you wish that you never met this person because
这种痛苦？
of that pain?
你认真的吗？
Are you serious?
这又回到了巧克力的例子。
Like, it goes back to the chocolate example.
那是
That's a
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好问题。
good question.
如果我了解过巧克力的味道，问题就出在这里。
If I've known what chocolate tasted like, you're the that's where the question is.
对吧？
Right?
如果你从未尝过巧克力，你还会想要那种巧克力吗？
If you never tasted chocolate, do you still want that chocolate?
如果你尝过巧克力，当然，我会想要巧克力。
If you tasted chocolate, of course, I want the chocolate.
因为我了解巧克力味道很好。
Because I know chocolate tastes good.
如果我以前从未尝过巧克力，也不知道巧克力味道有多好，那我才能做这个决定。
Had I never tasted chocolate before and I don't know how good chocolate tastes, then I I get to make that decision.
而这个问题是：你愿意试试巧克力吗？
And that question is, would you wanna try chocolate?
答案是否定的。
The answer is no.
为什么不是？
Why not?
因为你并不，如果你不觉得它带来
Because you don't you don't If if if it brings
它带给你快乐，而且你真的很喜欢，
you happiness and you really like it,
那为什么不
why don't
你，我不知道。
you I don't know.
不。
No.
不。
No.
但你现在知道了。
But you know now.
我现在知道了，我现在像你一样问了，因为你已经知道了。
I know now I asking like you now that you know.
既然你知道自己这么喜欢巧克力，为什么还要选择不去品尝这种味道呢？
Now that you know you like chocolate so much, why why would you choose not to have that taste?
因为
Because
你们实际上在回答不同的问题。
You guys are answering the different questions actually.
我认为霍伊的问题是，如果你只能尝一次巧克力的话。
I think Howie's question is if you only get to try chocolate once.
而詹姆斯回答的是，我给你一次巧克力，然后就再也不给你了。
Well, what James is answering, I give you chocolate once, then I never give you chocolate again.
那么，你还会想尝试巧克力吗？
Then then like, would you still want to try chocolate?
对吧？
Right?
但Howie的问题更像是——
But the Howie's question is more like-
你建立了一种关系。
You built a relationship.
给你巧克力，但你不能再继续吃巧克力了。
Give you chocolate and you can't keep on having chocolate.
你还会想要巧克力出现在你的生活中吗？
Would you want chocolate in your life?
你确定吗？
Are you sure?
对吧？
Right?
就像我不能用巧克力，因为巧克力是个物品，而我用的是情感和——
Like I can't use chocolate because chocolate is an item and I'm using emotions and-
但确实，你的孩子一直和你在一起。
But yeah, like, your kids is with you all the time.
但毕竟，这是一个活生生的人。
But how it's It's a human being.
假设我们说
Let's say we we say like
好吧，为了方便起见，我们就用巧克力吧。
Well, let's just for the sake of let's just use chocolate.
我们就
Let's just
继续用巧克力。
keep the chocolate.
好的。
Alright.
所以贾斯汀把巧克力吃掉了。
So Justin ate the chocolate now.
他知道巧克力的味道有多好，我只是问他了这个问题。
He knows how good the chocolate tasted, and I just asked him the question.
贾斯汀，如果我回到
Justin, if I go back to
但巧克力也带有负面含义，因为它可能对身体有害。
But chocolate is also there's a negative connotation to chocolate in terms of it may be bad for you physically.
不。
No.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
不。
No.
但你看，这不适用于这里，因为
But see, that that doesn't apply here because
它不可能对你的身体有害。
it can't be bad for you physically.
有一点。
A little bit.
比如，我觉得我们可以说
Like, I think let let's say
如果某样东西能给你带来大量的幸福和爱
And if something brings a lot of happiness and love into your life
嗯。
Mhmm.
对。
Yep.
而且你拥有过那样东西，不管它是什么，可能是巧克力，可能是苏打水，也可能是某种爱好，不管是什么。
And you've had that thing, whatever it is, it could be chocolate, could be soda, it can be a hobby, whatever it is.
对吧？
Right?
它也可能是一个人。
It can be a person.
如果是一年的幸福，比如说我们只是在约会。
If it's, one year of happiness let's say we're just dating.
好的。
Alright.
别提孩子了。
Let's not say kids.
对吧？
Right?
比如你遇到了你生命中的真爱。
Like like and you met the love of your life.
对吧？
Right?
然后，大概一年后，你们就分手了。
And, like, a a year later, like, you guys break up.
然后永远，就像，你会一直不开心。
And and forever, like, you're you're you're unhappy.
对吧？
Right?
那你还会愿意用那一年的幸福来交换吗？不会。
That would you have wanted that one year for to trade No.
但那不是同一个例子。
But that's not the same example.
那不是我们在讨论的事情
That's not what we're talking about
完全不是。
at all.
这有点像巧克力，因为因为
It's kinda like the chocolate because because
因为这涉及到
Because that involves
他拥有巧克力和他的孩子们。
How he has the chocolate and his kids.
对吧？
Right?
每天他都会吃到更多的巧克力。
Like, every day he will have more chocolate.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
所以在你的例子中，分手就像是你拥有巧克力，然后突然失去了这份巧克力，是的。
So it it would so the in your example, the breakup is if you if you have the chocolate and then you just lost that chocolate Yes.
然后你再也没法吃到巧克力了，你还会希望曾经尝过那种巧克力吗？
And then you were never able to have chocolate again, would you still have wanted to be able to taste that chocolate?
是的。
Yes.
但那和我们这里讨论的关于孩子的情况完全不同。
But that has that is that is so different than what we're talking about here with a kid.
对于孩子来说，孩子并不会消失。
With a kid is there's no disappearance of the kid.
孩子会永远存在于你的生活中。
The kid is in your life forever.
明白吗？
Okay?
而且你爱这个孩子。
And you love this kid.
没错。
Exactly.
但现在你
But now that you
你知道你有多爱这个孩子，你还想回到过去，不要这个孩子吗？
know how much you love this kid, do you wanna go back and not have this kid?
是的。
Yeah.
但那意味着你不能有巧克力，不行。
But that means you can have chocolate No.
不行。
No.
你可以永远拥有巧克力。
You can have chocolate forever.
可以永远拥有巧克力。
Can have chocolate forever.
你爱巧克力。
You love chocolate.
你可以一直吃巧克力
You can have chocolate for
你的一生。
the rest of your life.
是的。
Yeah.
你希望永远吃巧克力吗？
Would you want chocolate forever?
这就是问题所在。
That's the question.
但如果你有一个开关，比如，要么永远吃巧克力，要么一点都不能吃。
But if you but if there was a switch, like, Or not no chocolate.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你可以余生都享用巧克力，而且你非常喜欢巧克力。
You could have chocolate for the rest of your life, and you love chocolate.
你他妈的爱死巧克力了。
You fucking love chocolate.
对。
Yeah.
当然。
Of course.
而且你可以一辈子都拥有它。
And you can have it for the rest of your life.
但我给了你一个现在就能按的按钮。
But I gave you a button you can press right now.
然后我说，好吧。
And I said, okay.
如果你按下这个按钮，它会把你送回过去，让你重新经历你的人生，但那个版本的人生里再也没有巧克力了。
If you press this button, it will transport you back in time where you could lit relive your same life, but you will not have chocolate anymore in that life.
你会想按下这个按钮吗？
Would you wanna press that button?
每个人都想要巧克力。
Everybody wants the chocolate.
对吧？
Right?
因为我吃过巧克力。
Because I've had a chocolate.
我不能一直拥有它。
I I can't keep on having it.
我的生活更好了。
My life is better.
但但但那不是问题所在，因为，就像霍伊问他，如果你曾经拥有过巧克力
But but but that's not the question because, like, he never like, because Howie's asking him like, oh, if you had had chocolate
既然你现在知道了，是的。
Now that you know Yeah.
既然你现在知道了。
Now that you know.
让我来回答这个问题。
Let me That's the question.
对吧？
Right?
我打算
I'm gonna
把它拿回来。
bring it back.
我想我用巧克力影响了它。
I think I swayed it with the chocolate.
有点不对劲。
It was a little wrong.
有例子吗？
Do have an example?
但我有个更好的方法来立即回答你的问题，而不只是为大家澄清这件事。
But I have a better way answer your question right away without just clarify this thing for everybody.
好吗？
Okay?
詹姆斯，如果你问我这个问题，如果给我选择是否重生，比如在来到这个世界之前，对吧？
If you ask me the question, James, if I give you the option to be born again or not, like prior to coming into this world and right?
是的。
Yeah.
或者你以前根本不存在。
Or you never existed before.
比如，甚至从未是个胚胎。
Like, were never even an embryo.
就像，什么都没有。
Like, nada.
或者你选择来到这个世界，度过你42年的人生。
Or you get to come out to this life and live your 42 of life.
你会选择哪一个？
Which one would you pick?
这对你有意义吗？
Does that make sense to you?
这并没有真正暗示那个孩子，但是，但是我挺喜欢，但是我挺喜欢这个
That doesn't really imply that kid, but but I like but I like the
前提。
premise.
然后它本身就是这样。
Then And its own thing.
然后如果让我来做这个选择，只有两个选项。
And then if if I get to make that choice There's only two options.
永远不要来到这个世界。好的。
Never come into this world Okay.
或者你来到
Or you come into
这个世界。
this world.
或者就生活在刚才的地方，好吧。
Or and live exactly where you just Okay.
所以我们现在要在40岁的时候做决定
So we're making decision now at 40 years of
年龄，是的。
age Yes.
经历了我们所经历的生活，是的。
Having lived the life that we Yes.
每个人各自经历过的生活。
Individually have lived.
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
那我们都在回答这个问题吗？
So are we all answering this?
我会回答不。
And I would I would answer no.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
你不会想要拥有
You wouldn't want to have
我不希望我曾经存在过。
I would not wanna have existed.
我为什么要
Why would I want
来到这个你本来不想来的地方
to come into that you wouldn't have wanted to
我的生活其实挺好的。
My life is actually pretty good.
我对一切都心怀感激。
Everything I'm very grateful for.
你们不想存在过。
You guys don't wanna have existed.
对我拥有的一切心怀感激，而且我超级幸运。
Grateful for everything that I have, and I'm super lucky.
但我为什么要经历这一切呢？
But why do I wanna experience all this?
这和你刚才说的感恩正好相反。
That is the opposite of grateful that you you just said.
这并不冲突。
It it has no conflict.
这不是非此即彼。
It's not either or.
如果你仔细想想，你可以拥有一个充满感恩的生活。
If you think about it, you can have a grateful life
是的。
Yeah.
但如果我有一个按钮可以选择，是的。
But if I had the option with a button Yeah.
我妈妈给了我一个按钮，你要是
My mom gave me a button, you're
就像你根本不会存在那样。
like That you would have just never existed.
我依然会出现。
I would still come out.
你会出现的。
You would come out.
每个人都会现身。
Everybody would come out.
这让我觉得，我的意思是，我一个
That that makes me I mean, I an
奇怪的墙。
odd wall.
我人生的第二部分，但我不确定最后会怎么评判它。
Second part of my life, but, like, I don't know how, like, I'll judge it at the end.
但到目前为止，我想我肯定会现身。
But until this point, I would definitely come out, I think.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得
I think
我觉得有一个
I I think there's a
描述这种类型的
term for the type of
心态的术语
mindset you
是什么。
have.
是像……那种叫什么？是虚无主义吗？
Is it like, what is it what is it called where people are is it nihilist nihilism?
还是叫什么？
Or what is it called?
就是人们觉得……我也不知道。
Like, where people are I just like don't know.
就是什么都不重要。
Like like like nothing matters.
但这能回答之前的问题吗？
Does that answer the prior question though?
因为我觉得这与他问我的话题有关，然后我
Because I think that that stems along what he asked me and then I
我的问题其实基于超越你自身的东西。
Well, my question was really based off of something beyond yourself.
是的。
Yeah.
因为以孩子为例，如果你从未存在过，你根本不会知道。
Because with the kid example, because the kid that because if you've never existed, you just you won't even know.
没错。
Exactly.
但在这里，我们现在回头来看。
But with this, now we turn back now we turn back.
我们仍然会存在，只是不会在一个有孩子的时光线里。
We would still exist, just not in a timeline with a kid.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们仍然会存在，活着并体验没有孩子的生活。
So we would still be there to live and and experience a life just without a kid.
就是这样。
That's all.
在你的例子中，根本不存在任何东西。
In your example, there's no existence whatsoever.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
好吧。
Alright.
我的意思是，好吧。
I mean I mean alright.
所以你们大家都选择现身吧。
Let So you guys all pick coming out.
对吧？
Right?
在你的
In your
当然好啊。
Hell, yeah.
我们出来了。
We come out.
是的。
Yeah.
我是说，我不知道年纪大了生活会怎样，但至少到40岁之前我的生活都还不错，所以我会选择出生。
Will come I mean, don't know how when I get older, my life will be, but until I'm 40, my life been okay, so I will come out.
对。
Yeah.
百分之百，我会想要存在。
A 100% I would I would wanna exist.
是的。
Yeah.
再来一次。
Again.
我的意思是，前半段
I mean, first half
我的意思是，
I mean,
这真是一段惊心动魄的旅程。
it's been it's it's been hell of a ride.
这很有趣。
It's been fun.
我打赌99%的人都会。
I bet you 99% of the people would.
这就像是坐上了一趟非常刺激的过山车。
It's like it's like being on a really fun roller coaster.
过完这个过山车之后，你会想：你还想再玩一次吗？
Now after that roller coaster, you're like, do you wanna go again?
我会说：想。
I'd be like, yes.
我想再玩一次。
I wanna go again.
好的。
Okay.
所以现在让我稍微贡献一点意见。
So so now let me let me contribute a little bit.
我还没有孩子，但我想要孩子。
So I don't have kids yet, but I want kids.
对吧？
Right?
我得说，有孩子之前的生活就像一场过山车。
And I have to say life before a kid has been like a roller coaster.
我喜欢这样。
I like it.
你知道的，生活总有起起落落，但我总会坚持下去。
You know, there's been up and down, but I will always ride it.
我还没有孩子，但我想要孩子。
And I don't have kids, but I want kids.
在我心里，我觉得有孩子会很棒。
In my life, in my mind, feel like having a kid will be awesome.
对吧？
Right?
就像，你知道的，但之后会有很多困难。
Like, you know, but then there's so many difficulties.
这很可怕。
It's it's scary.
对吧？
Right?
就像，这有点吓人。
Like, it's kinda scary.
但是但是什么
But but what
那我们来定义一下什么是吓人。
Well, let's define scary.
比如说，你害怕什么？
Like, what scares you?
你害怕什么？
What scares you?
首先，我觉得如果我有孩子，我会是个非常淡定的父亲。
Well, first of all, like, until now, I think I'll be a very like, if I have a kid, I'll be a chill dad.
比如说，詹姆斯有那么多担忧。
Let's say, like, James have so many worries.
对吧？
Right?
比如，关于在学校表现好之类的，等等等等。
Like, about, like, doing well in school, blah blah blah.
其实我不这么认为，但我不确定。
I don't think actually like, but I don't know.
我觉得我可能会改变。
I I feel like I might change.
这一点也让我感到害怕。
That that also scares me.
现在，如果我想想有了孩子，就只担心健康问题。
Right now, if I think by having a kid, just worry about health.
对吧？
Right?
而且我我我觉得健康非常重要。
And I I I think health is very important.
孩子的健康。
Health of the child.
孩子的健康。
Health of the child.
对吧？
Right?
比如身体上、心理上。
Like like, physically, mentally.
当个孩子。
Being a child.
当然。
Course.
我必须确保的一件事就是这个。
I want like, that's one thing I have to guarantee.
对吧？
Right?
第二件事可能是道德。
And second thing is probably, like, morals.
对吧？
Right?
比如，他是个好孩子吗？
Like, is he like a good kid?
好吧。
Alright.
比如
Like
或者她。
Or she.
她。
She.
她。
She.
她。
She.
是的。
Yeah.
他或者我，但是个好孩子。
He or I like But a good kid.
他会成为一个好人吗？
Is he gonna be like a good person?
对吧？
Right?
比如或者像一个非常非常邪恶的人。
Like or like a very, very evil person.
所以，我绝对不想要邪恶的。
So, like, I definitely don't want evil.
而且，这两样东西就是，那两个东西
And, like, those are, like, the two two things
那让人担心。
that worry that.
这本身就是一个有趣的问题。
And this is an interesting question in and of itself.
你认为好人和坏人是天生如此，还是认为这是
Do you think good and evil people are just born that way, or do you think it's a
环境的产物
product of
环境影响，或者两者都有？
the environment or a little bit of both?
我认为两者都有。
I think both.
两者都有。
Both.
对吧？
Right?
最近我开始种植物了。
So recently I've gotten to planting.
种植？
Planting?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
就像，就像，我现在家里种了很多树啊草药啊什么的。
Like like like, I have a lot of trees and like herbs and shit in my house now.
对吧？
Right?
所以我种些东西。
So I plant stuff.
对不对？
Right?
我跟你说，有时候你买到不好的作物或种子，就算再怎么努力想让它活下来，就是不行。
And I'll tell you, like, sometimes you buy a bad crop or a bad seed, you can try really, really hard to like make it live and just doesn't work.
对。
Right.
比如，你每天都努力尝试。
Like, and you try hard every day.
你会想方设法让这株植物活下来。
You're like thinking how to make this plant go live.
但有时候你只是买到一颗很好的种子，你只需要浇浇水它就能自己生长，明白吗？
Like, but sometimes you just buy a really good seed and all you do is water it and like it forages, you know?
所以我觉得
So I think it's
但那更多是健康方面。
But that's more health.
没错。
Exactly.
那是身体层面的。
That's physical.
你在谈论道德。
You're talking about morality.
但我觉得这是一样的。
But I think that's, that's the same.
是的。
Yeah.
也许吧。
Maybe.
是的。
Yeah.
也许吧。
Maybe.
我的意思是，这是一个争论。
I mean, it's a debate.
对吧？
Right?
谁知道呢？
Who knows?
就像你们说的，每个孩子出生时都不一样。
So every like you guys said, right, every baby come out different.
对吧？
Right?
他们都有不同的性格。
Like, they all have different personalities.
对吧？
Right?
这已经是一个基础了。
And so that's already a base.
那我能为这个补充点什么呢？
Well, this is what I can I can add to this?
我有一对双胞胎。
I have twins.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他们是异卵双胞胎，所以长得并不一样。
And they're fraternal, so they're not identical.
所以他们至少可以说是两兄弟。
So they are two brothers, to say the least.
而且他们的性格完全不同。
And they have the most different personalities.
他们是最好的朋友，但性格却截然不同。
They're best friends, but they have the most different personalities.
他们长得也不一样。
They look different.
但关键是他们在完全相同的环境、完全相同的教养方式和相同的时间投入下长大的。
And that's something but they're raised in the exact same environment, exact same parenting style, same time given.
是的。
Yeah.
就像完全一样，但他们确实是两个不同的人。
Like, right down the middle, but they're two different people.
所以我确实同意并相信，至少一个人的性格是……是的。
So I I do agree and believe that that one's personality, at least Yeah.
性格的一部分是与生俱来的。
A part of the personality is born.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得是这样。
I think so.
之后，环境因素我认为会引导、影响，或者稍微调整一些，但性格的核心——比如孩子是否更外向——
Then after that, the product environment, I think, can lead or sway or, you know, kind of adjust a little bit, but the core of the personality, whether the the child is more expressive
或不外向
or not
是的。
Yeah.
是否爱冒险，或者是否好奇，你懂的。
Adventurous or not, you know, think curious or not.
我认为这些特质已经是与生俱来的。
Those, I think, are already ingrained.
然后你基本上就像是调节音量旋钮一样。
And then you're just basically it's like a volume knob.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
你是在调高或调低它。
You're turning it up or down.
所以，贾斯汀，我觉得是这样的。
So, Justin, I think it's like this.
就像你可以买一株状态不佳的植物。
Like so you can buy a bad plant.
对吧？
Right?
然后你可以努力照料它。
And you can work hard.
你非常努力地照料，它就会生长。
You work super hard and it'll grow.
你可以把它存起来。
You can save it.
对吧？
Right?
但是，你需要付出的工作量会是三倍、四倍，对吧？
But, but the amount of work you'll need is like three X, four X, right?
而如果你买一株好植物，就只需要浇水。
Versus you, like, you buy a good plant and just water.
对吧？
Right?
就像我说的，这很简单。
Like I said, it's easy.
所以，好孩子或坏孩子，我觉得人类不能简单地定义好坏，但我们有性格对吧？孩子的性格和我的性格必须匹配，如果匹配的话，就很容易把孩子培养成一个好人，因为我知道怎么跟孩子沟通。
So, so like good kid or bad kid I think it's not like humans we can't define good or bad but we have personalities right and the kid's personality and my personality have to match right and like if we are match then it's very easy to raise the kid into, like, a good person because I know how to talk to my kid.
我，我们，我们很合拍。
I I like we we we align.
对吧？
Right?
就像，对比我和我的孩子，比如
Like, versus if my kid and me, like
这是个完全陌生的人。
This is a complete stranger.
我们是，我们是，比如，不一样的不。
We're we're, like, different no.
不是。
No.
我们只是性格不同，沟通起来会更困难。
We're we're just different personalities and, like, it gets harder to communicate.
我觉得，这么说并不是贬低或居高临下，我认为这目前是一种非理性的恐惧
I I think that's I think that's kind of without belittling it or kind of being condescending, I think that's an irrational fear right now for
你所拥有的。
you to have.
你也没什么控制力。
You have no control either.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
确实如此。
Exactly.
但这样想也有点不理性，好像这孩子会跟我完全合不来似的。
So but it's also a little bit irrational to be like, this kid is gonna be so alien
对我来说。
for me.
我倒不是特别担心这个。
I'm not too fearful of this.
所以这就是为什么我说，对我来说，现在，当我考虑要孩子的时候，我只是想，好吧。
So that's why I said, like, for me, like, right now, like, when I think about having a kid, like, I I just think about, like, alright.
健康，
Healthy,
好男孩。
Good guy.
好女孩。
Good girl.
而且长得好看。
And good looking.
哦，好吧，
Oh, well,
老兄，来吧
Dude, come
啊。
on.
好的
Good
好看。
looking.
嗯，你看。
Well, look.
查尔斯。
Charles.
查尔斯。
Charles.
欢迎来到人类的其余部分，兄弟。
Welcome to the rest of humanity, bro.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不是。
Not.
再见。
Bye bye.
像，
Like,
我不知道
I don't know
你所说的，是每天最最基本的问题
what you're saying is, like, the most basic concerns that every single day
担心所有时间的历史。
worry about all the the history of time.
我的意思是。
That's I mean.
当詹姆斯谈到孩子时，他担心的事情要多得多。
Like, when James talk about kids, he he worry about much more stuff.
你知道的吗？
You know?
比如，他担心学校的事。
Like, he worry about, like, school.
他担心这啊那啊的。
He worried about blah, blah, blah.
他担心自己生活的整个结构和模式，是的。
He's worried about how the entire structure and paradigm of his life is Yeah.
要去
Going to
我认为这就是很多人不生孩子的原因，因为他们担心太多事情。
I think that's why a lot of people are not having kids because they worry about over, like, they worry about too many things.
你知道的？
You know?
比如，他们担心，嗯，比如说。
Like like, they worry about, like, okay.
我能好好照顾孩子吗？
Can I take care of the kid kid in a good way?
我有没有足够的钱？
Do I'm not like, do I have enough money?
等等等等
Blah blah
不过，我并不担心这些事。
I don't worry about those things, though.
让我在这里补充另一个视角。
Let let me add another perspective here.
这是通过自我反思后，我得出的结论。
And this is something that I've through self reflection, I've come to the conclusion.
对我来说，有孩子之前和之后最大的区别在于我的自私程度。
The biggest difference for me pre having kids and post having kids is how selfish I am.
所以在有孩子之前，我非常自私，总是优先确保自己快乐。
So before having kids, I was very selfish in terms of making sure that I was happy.
我当时做的都是让我开心、自己自私地想做的事情。
I was doing things that made me happy that I wanted to do selfishly.
当然，你也会有同理心，或者担心身边的人等等，但一切都还是以我为中心。
Of course, you one is empathetic or or worrying about people around you and stuff like that, but everything is still based based on me.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
我想去参加派对。
I wanna go party.
我想去喝酒。
I wanna go drink.
我想去那个地方。
I wanna go to that place.
我想去度假。
I wanna go on vacation.
我想和这个人约会，等等等等。
I wanna date this person, etcetera, etcetera.
有了孩子之后，自私的成分就少了很多。
Once having post kids, it's a lot less selfish.
什么是对家庭最有利的事情？
It's what's the right thing for the family?
什么是对孩子最有利的事情？
What's the right thing for the kids?
什么是对妻子正确的事？
What's the right thing for the wife?
什么是正确的事？
What's the right thing?
你知道吗？
You know?
需要考虑的事情多多了。
It's it's a lot more to think about.
是的。
Yep.
而这就是做出那个决定。
And it's just making that decision.
你对这个决定感到自在吗？
Are you comfortable with it?
不。
No.
这取决于你必须为自己牺牲多少
It it's how much you're gonna have to sacrifice yourself to to
去跨越
go over
但你用了‘牺牲’这个词。
And so but you used the word sacrifice.
是的。
Yeah.
牺牲。
Sacrifice.
牺牲。
Sacrifice.
但关键是。
But here's the thing.
我不觉得这是多大的牺牲。
I don't feel that much of a sacrifice.
很好。
Good.
我觉得我对这件事感觉很平常。
I feel that I feel very normal about it.
这和我两年前戒酒是一回事。
It's the same thing as I quit drinking about two years ago.
从几乎每天喝酒，到每两个月喝一次，对我来说非常困难。
It was so difficult for me to go from almost a daily drinker to, you know, once every two months kinda thing.
这叫诚实饮酒。
It's called the Honest drink.
我知道，这很有趣。
I know, which is funny.
对吧？
Right?
这太好笑了。
Which is hilarious.
但每个人都认为饮料必须是含酒精的。
But but everyone assumes the drink has to be alcoholic.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
But exactly.
但一开始，我总是想，天哪。
But at first, I I used to always think about, oh my god.
我永远不可能戒掉喝酒。
I could never give up drinking.
我爱喝酒。
I love it.
我喜欢喝酒。
I enjoy it.
这是一种社交活动。
It's a social thing.
它让我感觉很好，我永远无法放弃它。
It makes me feel good, and I can never give it up.
我喜欢威士忌。
I love whiskey.
但在戒酒两年后，我无法想象自己会再回去喝酒。
But after giving it up for two years, I I can't see myself going back ever.
很好。
Good.
而且确实。
And yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
但我想说的是
But what I'm saying
为这个干杯。
toast to that.
我们应该为此干杯。
We should cheers to that.
但我想说的是，只有亲身经历你才能真正了解自己的感受。
But what I'm trying to get at is you don't know how you really feel until you're in it.
这基本上就是让你回归到核心价值。
And it just basically you go back down to the core value.
我做决定的核心价值，无论是生孩子还是戒酒。
My core value of making that decision of whatever, having kids or having the quitting drinking.
为了戒酒，我的核心价值是健康。
For quitting drinking, my core value was health.
我想要保持健康。
I wanna be healthy.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
这对我来说最重要。
That's most important to me.
通过戒酒，我变得更健康了。
And by quitting drinking, I became more healthy.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且这意味着要放弃喝酒和聚会的乐趣。
And there's that sacrifice of the enjoyment of drinking and and partying.
那时候感觉真好。
That's when it feels good.
我感觉很棒。
I feel great.
是的。
Yep.
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