频繁跳槽的人是否更擅长他们的工作？

NPR。

NPR.

这里是《金钱星球》的《指标》节目。

This is The Indicator from Planet Money.

我是阿德里安·马。

I'm Adrian Ma.

我是韦伦·王。

And I'm Waylon Wong.

我们又迎来了一个就业数据发布的周五，每个月我们都会在这一天查看最新的就业数据，并关注劳动力市场的趋势。

And we have arrived at yet another jobs Friday, the day each month where we check-in on the latest jobs numbers and spotlight trends in the labor market.

没错。

That's right.

根据劳工统计局的数据，上个月失业率稳定在4.1%左右，经济新增了16.2万个就业岗位。

And according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the unemployment rate remained steady around 4.1% last month, and the economy added 162,000 jobs.

其中很大一部分增长来自食品服务和饮酒场所的招聘激增，用劳工统计局的话说，就是餐馆和酒吧。

Much of that growth came from a surge in hiring at food services and drinking places, which is BLS speak for restaurants and bars.

我去年有点被打击了，因为一个月前，就业报告比预期的要弱得多。

I am feeling a little whipped last year because a month ago, the jobs report came in a lot weaker than expected.

所以这个月的数字就像是一个受欢迎的惊喜。

And so this month's numbers are like a welcome surprise.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我们我们下降了。

I mean, we're we're down.

我们上升了。

We're up.

那该怎么办呢？

What is one to do?

我们应该去个喝酒的地方讨论一下。

We should go to a drinking place and discuss.

录完这个就去。

Right after we record this.

没错。

That's right.

考虑到月度数据里的各种波动，退一步看看长期趋势可能会更有帮助。

With all the noise in the month to month numbers, you know, it it can be helpful to step back and consider the longer term trends.

根据劳工统计局的数据，过去几年公司招聘新员工的速度基本保持平稳。

According to the BLS, the rate at which companies are hiring new employees has remained pretty flat the past couple of years.

还有一个叫做“离职率”的指标显示，有工作的人并不急于离开现在的岗位。

And one measurement called the quits rate shows that people with jobs are not eager to leave them.

但也有例外。

But there are exceptions.

这些人可以称为“跳槽者”，他们每隔几年甚至几个月就决定换一次工作。

Call them job hoppers, people who decide to change jobs every few years or even every few months.

虽然很多雇主看不起这种职业上的“不专一”，但新研究表明，跳槽者本人和他们所在的公司都能从中获得实实在在的好处。

And while many employers look down on this sort of professional promiscuity, new research suggests there are real benefits for job hoppers and the companies they work for.

休息之后我们来详细解释。

We'll explain after the break.

本播客及以下内容的支持来自Rula。

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Rula.

有了Rula，找治疗师和获得你需要的帮助，比说服自己不去做更容易。

With Rula, finding a therapist and getting the help you need is easier than talking yourself out of it.

因为Rula提供个性化的费用估算，而且没有隐藏费用。

Because Rula offers personalized cost estimates and has no hidden fees.

每次治疗平均花费15美元，并且全美接受超过120种保险计划。

With sessions costing an average of $15 and over a 120 insurance plans accepted nationwide.

如果你准备好不再说服自己放弃寻求帮助和取得进展，请访问rula.com。

If you're ready to stop talking yourself out of finding care and making progress, head to rula.com.

网址是rula.com，迈出第一步吧。

That's rula.com and take the first step.

在《亲爱的生活工具包》节目中，我们的团队用过去节目中的经久考验的建议来回答听众的问题，

On dear life kit, our team answers your listener questions with time tested advice from past episodes,

但我们并不总是意见一致。

but we don't always agree.

恰恰相反。

Opposite.

不对。

No.

我们不是这么想的。

That's not what we thought.

万一他就是那个人呢？

What if he's the one?

天哪。

Oh my god.

什么？

What?

快去NPR应用或你收听播客的任何平台，收听《亲爱的生活锦囊》最新一期精彩节目。

Listen to the latest juicy episode of dear life kit on the life kit podcast in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

重大新闻不一定按你的时间表来。

Big news stories don't always break on your schedule.

但是有了NPR应用，新闻、文化和播客随时都在你的口袋里，想听就听。

But with the NPR app, news, culture, and podcasts are ready when you want them in your pocket.

今天就下载NPR应用吧。

Download the NPR app today.

Aaron Brotchy今年25岁，来自纽约州罗切斯特，Aaron自称是个频繁跳槽的人。

Aaron Brotchy is 25 years old from Rochester, New York, and Aaron is a self described job hopper.

我们来梳理一下你的跳槽经历，就按时间顺序给我们讲讲吧。

Let's go through the job hopping era and just, like, chronologically walk us through

天哪。

Oh, god.

好，让我想想。

Let me yeah.

我把简历调出来。

Let me pull up my resume.

我敢肯定上面有些工作我都完全忘了。

I'm sure I think there's jobs on there that I've completely forgotten about.

2022年的时候，我在一家收容所工作，服务对象是那些曾经坐过牢的人。

In 2022, I worked at a halfway house for individuals who were previously incarcerated.

读研期间，我担任学校内部杂志的主编。

While I was getting my master's degree, I was the editor in chief for the school's in house magazine.

那份工作是带薪的。

That was a paid job.

毕业后，我做了一名机器人讲师，在……

After I graduated, I was a robotics instructor at

一家青年会。

a YMCA.

之后

After

我在一家面包店工作过。

that, I worked at a bakery.

后来，我在另一家面包店当过经理。

After that, I was a manager at a different bakery.

亚伦经历了好多不同的人生。

Aaron has lived so many lives.

亚伦是罗切斯特的第四个阿甘。

Aaron is the fourth gump of Rochester.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

太厉害了。

Amazing.

现在，亚伦在一家为智力和发育障碍人士提供服务的机构担任助理住宿主管。

Currently, Aaron works as an assistant resident supervisor at a home for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

我觉得我真的在让别人的生活变得更好。

I feel like I'm actually making people's lives better.

就像，我真的在帮助别人。

Like, I'm actually helping people.

虽然亚伦喜欢这份工作，但他说自己一直在留意更好的机会。

And while Aaron likes the job, they say they've always got their radar up for better opportunities.

当我们问他们过去换工作的原因时，他们说其实很简单。

When we asked what's driven them to switch jobs in the past, they said it's pretty basic.

就是员工被重视的感觉。

It's worker appreciation.

就是薪水。

It's pay.

我在几份工作里都说过这个。

I've said it at a couple of my jobs.

我接受表扬，也接受加薪。

I take my praises and raises.

你可以说尽好话，但如果我的工资单没变，那你到底有多重视我呢？

You you can say all the words you want, but if my check remains the same, then how much do you really appreciate me?

我接受表扬，也接受加薪。

I take my praises and raises.

这真是……

It's so

真顺口。

catchy.

确实很顺口。

That is catchy.

我知道。

I know.

现在劳工统计局的调查显示，跳槽在二三十岁的人群中很常见，但各个年龄段的人都会这么做。

Now BLS research shows job hopping is common among people in their twenties and thirties, but people of all ages do it.

不过，亚伦虽然才二十多岁，还是担心自己长长的简历会给潜在雇主留下不好的印象。

Still, Aaron, who's still in their twenties, does worry their long resume might look bad to potential employers.

好消息是，亚伦。

Well, good news, Aaron.

最近一项研究表明，跳槽者拥有一种非常特别且被低估的技能，那就是适应能力。

A recent study suggests job hoppers possess a very special and undervalued skill, and that is adaptability.

丽贝卡·基奥是那项研究的合著者。

Rebecca Kehoe is coauthor on that study.

她是康奈尔大学的教授，研究人力资源。

She's a professor at Cornell University where she studies human resources.

她说，每次开始新工作，总会有一个适应过程。

And she says, whenever you start a new job, there's always a learning curve.

所以即使你对工作内容很熟悉，但你在一个新的大楼、新的环境里，你还是会……

So even if you're familiar with kind of the tasks of of the job, I mean, physically, you're in a new building, a new space, but you're

你还在摸索，比如洗手间在哪儿？

You're still trying to figure out, like, where's the bathroom?

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

有这些基本的事情，还有更微妙的事情，比如我需要认识谁？

There's the basic things like that, and then there's the more nuanced things like who do I need to know?

这里的事情是怎么运作的？

How do things work around here?

我和别人打交道时，大家对我有什么期望？

What are kind of the expectations for how I interact with people?

我们这里是怎么做事的？

How we do things?

丽贝卡说，这种迷茫感可能会持续好几个月。

Rebecca says this disorientation can last for months.

即使你做的是同样的工作，只是换了一家公司，你的效率也不会像平时那么高。

Even if you are doing the same type of job just at a different company, you're not gonna be quite as productive as you usually are.

阿德里安，你有过这种经历吗？

Have you had this experience, Adrian?

当你还在找洗手间的时候，很难高效工作。

It's hard to be productive when you're still looking for the bathroom.

对。

Yeah.

或者还在琢磨大家是怎么吃午饭的。

Or trying to figure out, like, how do people take lunch?

你知道吗？

You know?

比如，大家会出去吃吗？

Like, do people go out?

还是在办公桌前吃？

Do they eat at their desk?

天哪。

Oh, man.

看看我的脑子里在想什么。

Peek into my brain.

就像开学第一天一样。

It's like the first day of school.

我知道。

I know.

太过了。

It's too much.

这太多了。

It's too much.

但丽贝卡想知道，那些更频繁换工作的人，是不是更容易适应这个过渡期。

But Rebecca wondered whether people who change jobs more often have an easier time with this adjustment period.

为了验证这个假设，他们观察了对冲基金经理。

To test that hypothesis, they looked at hedge fund managers.

为什么选对冲基金经理呢？

And why hedge fund managers?

因为对冲基金经理的工作就是拿别人的钱去投资，理想情况下让钱生钱。

Well, a hedge fund manager's job is to invest other people's money and ideally grow it into more money.

所以雇佣他们的公司会密切跟踪他们为客户赚了多少钱。

So the companies that employ them closely track how much money they make for their clients.

而且，对研究来说很方便的是，这让丽贝卡有了具体的数据来衡量他们的工作表现随时间的变化。

And conveniently, for research purposes, that gave Rebecca concrete data to measure how their job performance changed over time.

于是，她和合著者拿到了近9000名对冲基金经理27年的数据。

So she and her co author obtained twenty seven years of data on almost 9,000 hedge fund managers.

那他们算完这些数字之后，发现了什么呢？

And when they crunched the numbers, what did they find?

那些跳槽更频繁的对冲基金经理，在换公司时业绩下滑的幅度更小，而且他们恢复到之前业绩水平的速度也更快。

Hedge fund managers who had moved more frequently experienced a smaller drop in performance when they changed firms, and they've recovered to their prior performance levels more quickly.

比如说，一个整个职业生涯只换过一次工作的对冲基金经理，可能得花大约五个月才能在新岗位上步入正轨，而换过好几次工作的人可能只需要两个月。

So for example, a hedge fund manager who only changed jobs once in their whole career might take about five months to get up to speed at a new job, while someone who changed jobs several times might only take two months.

所以换句话说，跳槽频繁的人适应期比不跳槽的人短得多。

So in other words, job hoppers had a way shorter adjustment period than non job hoppers.

丽贝卡认为，原因在于他们在适应新工作环境过程中培养出来的软技能。

Rebecca thinks the reason is the soft skills they develop in learning to navigate a new workplace.

当然，一部分是正式流程的问题。

Part of it is the formal processes, sure.

但很大一部分是文化的问题。

But a lot of it is the culture.

很大一部分是员工之间长期共事形成的共同经历。

A lot of it is the shared history between employees that are working and have been working together for a long time.

很大一部分是组织中领导者的期望。

A lot of it is the expectations of leaders in the organization.

这些都是你加入新环境时需要搞清楚的社交动态。

These are all kind of social dynamics that you've gotta figure out when you join a new context.

尽管丽贝卡的研究对象是对冲基金经理，但她认为这个基本原则可能适用于许多不同领域的跳槽者。

Now even though Rebecca's study looked at hedge fund managers, she thinks the basic principle could apply to job hoppers in lots of different fields.

任何工作，你都会经历这种学习曲线，不仅要学习工作本身，还要学习其中的动态、文化、对事情运作方式的期望，这些正是人们从一段经历带到下一段经历的东西。

Any job where you're experiencing this learning curve of not just learning the job, but the learning the dynamics, learning the culture, the expectations of how things work, that's what people are carrying with them from one experience to the next.

我能想象一些雇主对此持怀疑态度。

Now I can imagine some employers being a little skeptical of this.

对吧？

Right?

如果我是老板，我可能也不想花大量时间培训新员工，结果他们却走了。

If I were a boss, I probably wouldn't wanna sink a bunch of time into training a new hire just to have them leave.

丽贝卡说这很合理，但雇主不应该因为候选人频繁跳槽就直接排除他们。

Rebecca says that's fair, but employers shouldn't rule out potential hires just because they've hopped around.

他们上手更快。

They come up to speed more quickly.

他们可能更快适应新的协作环境。

They might adapt more quickly to new collaborative environments.

所以如果这是你的优先考虑，如果你处于高风险的环境中，招聘的岗位需要人一进来就能立刻上手，这可能是一个优势。

So if that's a priority, if you're in a high stakes context, you're hiring for a role where you really need someone to come in and hit the ground running, this might be a strength.

不过，这里有一个需要注意的地方。

Now, there is a caveat here.

丽贝卡说，这种效应可能有限。

Rebecca says there may be a limit to this effect.

如果一个人一年换好几次工作，那可能就另当别论了。

If someone changes jobs, say, several times a year, that might be a different story.

如果你在一个组织里待的时间太短，以至于从来没有真正搞清楚事情是怎么运作的，你可能就不会发展出那种适应能力，因为你是在需要适应之前就离开，从而回避了适应。

If you are spending so little time in an organization that you're never actually fully figuring out how things work, you might not develop that adaptability benefit because you're sort of avoiding adapting by just leaving before you need to.

我实在无法忍受要寄出简历这件事

I cannot stomach the thought of sending out my resume

一年之内要参加那么多次面试，做那么多遍。

doing that many interviews that many times in a year.

不。

No.

谢谢。

Thank you.

对。

Yeah.

这就像是“安静辞职”的反面。

It's like the opposite of quiet quitting.

就是，我也不知道怎么说。

It it just I don't know.

快速辞职。

Quick quitting.

高调求职。

Loud applying.

对。

Yes.

所以这就让我们回到了来自罗切斯特的跳槽者亚伦，他曾在过渡教习所、杂志社、基督教青年会、两家面包店以及一家残疾人服务机构工作过。

So this brings us back to Aaron, our job hopper from Rochester, who worked at a halfway house, a magazine, a YMCA, two bakeries, and a home for people with disabilities.

亚伦虽然还没在对冲基金工作过，但他说自己从不同工作中获益良多。

Now Aaron hasn't worked for a hedge fund yet, but they say they have benefited from working at different jobs.

其中最大的收获之一就是学会了和各种各样的人打交道。

And one of the biggest benefits being learning to work with all kinds of people.

如果你能有效沟通，那你就能解决90%的问题。

If you are able to communicate efficiently, then you're gonna be able to solve 90% of the problems.

那亚伦接下来有什么打算呢？

So what's next for Aaron?

嗯，他有刑事司法硕士学位，可能会尝试找那个领域的工作。

Well, they have a master's degree in criminal justice and might try to pursue a job in that field.

最终，亚伦想要的是稳定，是能帮助他攀登财务阶梯的东西。

Ultimately, Aaron wants to find stability, something that will help them climb the financial ladder.

或者至少，不要落后。

Or at the very least, not fall behind.

虽然我非常支持跳槽，而且我觉得这对我有很多好处，但我希望这不是我不得不做的事情。

As much as I am an advocate for job hopping, and I think it has done me a lot of good, I wish it wasn't what I have to do.

但市场并不是这么决定的。

But that's that's not what the market has decided.

所以我只能尽力去适应。

And so I'm just gonna try to play it to the best of my ability.

也许亚伦应该去当对冲基金经理。

Maybe Aaron should become a hedge fund manager.

他们的薪酬很高。

They're very well compensated.

经过一年多的时间，Planet Money 游戏现在上线了。

After more than a year, the Planet Money game is out now.

卖给我一个大脚怪。

Sell me a Sasquatch.

如果你已经买了，不妨邀请一些不了解《Planet Money》的朋友来一起玩，然后告诉我们效果怎么样。

If you've purchased it, consider inviting over some friends who don't know about Planet Money and playing it with them, and let us know how it goes.

说不定你会让他们对市场失灵或者播客产生兴趣。

Maybe you'll pique their interest in market failures or podcasts.

本期节目由安吉尔·卡拉塔斯制作，特拉维斯·哈根负责工程。

This episode was produced by Angel Carratas and engineered by Travis Hagen.

事实核查由西拉·华雷斯完成，编辑是朱莉娅·里奇，凯肯·卡农担任我们的节目编辑，《指标》节目由NPR制作。

It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez, edited by Julia Ritchie, Caken Canon as our show's editor, and the Indicator's of production of NPR.

亿万富翁马克·库班深入研究了美国医疗体系的内部情况。

Billionaire Mark Cuban has stared into the belly of the beast of America's health care system.

我的意思是，情况太糟糕了，你可以列出一长串优质医院，他们却不知道自己的成本。

I mean, it's so bad, you can go through a long list of really quality hospitals and they don't know their costs.

那么，全民医保能成为解决方案吗？

So can Medicare for all be a solution?

我们和U一起深入审视这个项目的成本。

We take a hard look at the cost of the program along with U.

美国。

S.

医疗体系本身。

Health care itself.

在NPR应用上找到这期节目，并收听更多来自《Planet Money的指标》的故事。

Find this and hear more stories from The Indicator from Planet Money on the NPR app.

本周的《来源与方法》节目，探讨五角大楼和石油生意？

Week on sources methods, the Pentagon in the oil business?

这是由五角大楼执行的，但它本应专注于升级美国武器系统，而不是开采石油。

This is being carried out by the Pentagon, but it's an entity that's supposed to be focused on upgrading US weapons systems and and not on pumping oil.

我们深入探讨关于特朗普总统所谓的与委内瑞拉的协议的最新情报和重大未解问题。

We unpack the latest intel and big unanswered questions about president Trump's so called deal with Venezuela.

本周NPR的《来源与方法》节目。

This week on sources and methods from NPR.