对许多Z世代来说，赌博就是投资

NPR。

NPR.

现在投资和赌博之间的界限已经模糊了。

The line between investing and gambling is blurry now.

对。

Yeah.

你听这个。

Get this.

过去一年里，超过一半的Z世代表示，他们把原本打算投资的钱拿去做了体育博彩。

In the past year, more than half of Gen Z say they've taken dollars intended for investing and put it towards sports gambling.

而且你也能理解为什么体育博彩看起来像是轻松赚钱，因为很多体育博彩广告都宣传，只要小额存款就能获得几百美元的免费投注。

And you can understand why sports betting seems like easy money when many sports betting commercials advertise hundreds of dollars in free bets just for making a small deposit.

所有客户在每场NBA季后赛都能获得利润加成。

All customers get a profit boost every NBA playoff game.

新客户只需花5美元，赢了就能获得300美元的奖金投注。

New customers spend $5 and get 300 in bonus bets if you win.

新客户只需

New customers turn

5美元就能立刻获得200美元的投注奖励。

$5 into 200 instantly in bonus bets.

这里是《金钱星球》的《指标》节目。

This is The Indicator from Planet Money.

我是瑞奇·穆尔维。

I'm Ricky Mulvey.

我是阿德里安·马。

And I'm Adrian Ma.

联邦对体育博彩的禁令八年前被推翻，我们现在才刚开始看到这对年轻人的影响。

The federal ban on sports betting was struck down eight years ago, and we're just now learning the effects on younger people.

今天在节目中，我们来探讨无处不在的博彩广告对Z世代造成了什么影响。

Today on the show, we take a look at what ubiquitous gambling advertising has done to Gen Z.

以及一个州政府如何开始设置防护措施。

And how one state government is starting to put up guardrails.

那是在休息之后。

That's after the break.

本播客及以下内容的支持来自Rula。

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Rula.

使用Rula，找到治疗师并获得你需要的帮助，比说服自己不去做更容易，因为Rula提供个性化的费用估算，没有隐藏费用，每次会话平均15美元，并且在全国范围内接受超过120种保险计划。

With Rula, finding a therapist and getting the help you need is easier than talking yourself out of it because Rula offers personalized cost estimates and has no hidden fees with sessions costing an average of $15 and over a 120 insurance plans accepted nationwide.

如果你准备好不再说服自己不去寻求帮助并取得进展，请访问rula.com。

If you're ready to stop talking yourself out of finding care and making progress, head to rula.com.

那就是rula.com，迈出第一步吧。

That's rula.com and take the first step.

本周的新闻人物节目中，在喜剧界打拼十多年之后

This week on newsmakers, after more than a decade in comedy

我不确定我们能走到这一步。

I wasn't sure that we would get here.

Robbie Hoffman无所畏惧，嗯，

Robbie Hoffman is fearless Well,

我隐约有点感觉，但没想到会这样。

I had a small feeling I wasn't oh.

还有福莉本人。

And Foley herself.

我的房东。

My landlord.

喂？

Hello?

你可以直接闪一下。

You can go ahead and flash.

嗯，我现在不在家。

Well, I'm not home now.

我在忙别的事。

I'm doing something.

我们和罗比·霍夫曼一起深入探讨喜剧与成功，欢迎收听NPR的《新闻人物》。

We plunge into comedy and success with Robbie Hoffman on NPR's Newsmakers.

与其漫无目的地刷手机，不如用心使用NPR应用。

Instead of scrolling mindlessly, engage mindfully with the NPR app.

它汇集了电台的即时新闻和你喜欢的播客，让你既能放松，又不会让大脑完全停转。

With a mix of on demand news stories from the station and your favorite podcast, you can relax without shutting off your brain.

今天就下载NPR应用吧。

Download the NPR app today.

对一些人来说，体育博彩不仅仅是娱乐。

For some people, sports betting is more than entertainment.

他们想靠这个真正赚到钱。

They're trying to make real money with it.

最近一项调查显示，大约四分之一的Z世代认为体育博彩是一种高风险的投资方式，或者是一种加速实现某种目标的途径。

In a recent survey, about a quarter of Gen Z said they view sports betting as a high risk investment strategy or a way to accelerate some kind of goal.

Z世代指的是年龄大约在18到29岁之间的人。

Gen Z is anyone aged around 18 to 29.

我觉得，首先，这可不是什么好事。

I think, you know, number one, it's not good.

这是丹·伊根，Betterment公司行为科学和投资部门的副总裁。

That's Dan Egan, vice president of behavioral science and investing at Betterment.

他们研究了不同世代与投资和赌博之间的关系。

They studied the relationship different generations have with investing and gambling.

我们刚才听到的那些数字，就是来自他们最近的民调。

And we got some of the numbers you heard from their recent poll.

我有朋友喜欢，怎么说呢，收集汽车。

I have friends who like, I don't know, collecting cars.

但他们很坦诚，那辆车他们并不指望靠它赚钱。

But they're honest about the fact that that car, they're not making money on it.

那只是个爱好。

It's a hobby.

他们乐在其中。

They enjoy it.

他们喜欢欣赏那辆车。

They enjoy looking at the car.

我觉得危险的地方在于，我们开始把爱好和投资混为一谈。

I think the dangerous aspect is when we start confusing our hobbies for investing.

丹说，很多Z世代的人把投资的钱拿去赌博，其中一个原因就是过度自信。

Dan says one reason why so many members of Gen Z are using investing dollars for gambling is overconfidence.

比如，我看很多篮球比赛。

Like, I watch a ton of basketball.

我能看出谁会赢。

I can spot a winner.

而且，一些年轻人觉得这个经济体系对他们不利。

And also, some people in younger generations feel this economy just isn't working for them.

所以我觉得，其中一个驱动因素就是，要想出人头地，光靠做好本职工作、定期存钱、专注于事业是不够的，必须得在财务上有大的收获。

So I think that's one of the drivers is the idea that in order to get ahead, just like doing my job, saving regularly, and focusing on my career isn't gonna be enough, I have to have some big financial wins.

但这并不是普遍情况。

But this isn't true across the board.

你是Z世代吗？

Are you Gen Z?

是的。

Yes.

山姆·马斯卡拉是一位27岁的博士生，即将进入密歇根大学学习。

Sam Mascarra is a 27 year old incoming PhD student at the University of Michigan.

需要说明的是，他比我小三岁，所以阿德里安，我们说的可不是什么外星人群体。

And to be clear, he is three years younger than me, so we are not talking about an alien population here, Adrian.

山姆以前赌篮球，他看到那些广告说只要存一小笔钱就能获得几百美元的免费投注。

Sam used to bet on basketball, and he saw the ads promising hundreds of dollars in free bets for just a small deposit.

山姆的一个同事跟他说，嘿。

And one of Sam's coworkers said, hey.

如果你注册一个体育博彩账户，我也能拿到奖励。

If you sign up for a sports betting account, then I get a reward too.

所以他就说，如果你加入，现在有个促销活动。

So he was like, if you join, there's this promotion going on.

我以为就5美元呢。

And I figured it was, like, $5.

NBA季前赛刚开始，所以我觉得可以试试。

The NBA preseason was just starting, so I figured it'd be something to try.

这怎么感觉像是一部即将上演的课后特别节目？

Why does this feel like a after school special in the making?

萨姆说，他几乎用过所有有奖励的平台。

Sam says he'd used just about any platform that had a bonus.

BetMGM、FanDuel，甚至还有老版的ESPN平台。

BetMGM, FanDuel, even the old ESPN platform.

他说他从来不会下超过自己承受能力的赌注，但他担心比他更年轻的一代，也就是阿尔法一代。

And he says that he never bet more money than he was willing to lose, but worries about people even younger than him, Gen Alpha.

他教过高中生。

He taught high schoolers.

我见过经济困难的学生。

I was seeing economically disadvantaged students.

他们会跟我说，这是个稳赢的赌注，或者说，这是轻松赚钱的方法。

Like, they would tell me, like, this is an easy bet or, like, this is, like, an easy way to make money.

他说有些学生会找个成年人帮他们注册体育博彩账户，然后开始下注。

He says that some students would find an adult to sign them up for a sports betting account and start playing.

这些孩子才16岁。

These are 16 year old kids.

他们根本没有自制力去说，我只用促销赠送的钱。

They did not have the self control to say, I'll only use the promotion money.

我听到孩子们跟我说，他们好像拿自己的钱，比如200美元，去随便赌一场篮球赛。

I'd hear kids talking to me like they're putting up, like, $200 of their money on a random, like, basketball game.

需要说明的是，我们这里说的只是体育博彩公司，比如FanDuel和DraftKings，不包括预测市场。

And to be clear, we're just talking about the sports books here, like FanDuel and DraftKings, not prediction markets.

那是另一回事。

That's a slightly different beast.

对。

Yeah.

而且我们之前报道过，像Polymarket和Kalshi这样的预测市场，可能会向弱势人群做广告。

And and we've reported on how prediction markets like Polymarket and Kalshi can advertise to vulnerable people.

你可以在节目说明里找到那个链接。

You can find a link to that in the show notes.

州政府开始对体育博彩的负面影响，比如成瘾，做出反应了。

State governments are starting to react to the negative effects of sports betting, like addiction.

科罗拉多州刚刚通过了一项新法律，为体育博彩公司引入了新规定。

Colorado just passed a new law that introduced new rules for sports betting companies.

比如，不能再使用信用卡存款了。

For example, no more depositing money with a credit card.

如果你想赌博，你不能借债。

If you wanna gamble, you can't take out debt.

马特·鲍尔是科罗拉多州的民主党州参议员。

Matt Ball is a democratic state senator in Colorado.

他和共和党同事拜伦·佩尔顿共同提出了这项法案。

He cosponsored the bill with a republican colleague, Byron Pelton.

马特说，他并不是要禁止体育博彩。

Matt says he's not banning sports gambling.

事实上，他自己也赌过。

In fact, he's gambled himself.

我以前也赌过体育。

I've bet on sports before.

我担任一个梦幻联赛的专员大概有十五年了。

I've the commissioner of a fantasy league for about fifteen years.

但他看到了Z世代和赌博的问题，特别是年轻男性。

But he sees issues with Gen Z and gambling, specifically young men.

有几个选民来找他谈过这件事。

A couple of constituents came to talk with him about it.

这引发了很多对话，你知道，从那些儿子从大学回家、一晚就在信用卡上刷了一万五千美元的母亲，到问题赌博的全国专家，都有。

And that led to a lot more conversations with, you know, everyone from mothers who had sons come home from college having put, you know, $15,000 on the credit card in one night to national experts in problem gambling.

马特担心体育博彩成为一个公共健康问题。

Matt is worried about sports betting as a public health issue.

是的。

Yeah.

而且问题赌博还和更多的破产、贷款违约、家庭暴力和自杀有关。

And problem gambling is associated with more bankruptcies, loan defaults, domestic violence, and suicides.

所以马特和拜伦的大胆想法是，增加一些阻力。

So Matt and Byron's big idea, add some friction.

限制体育博彩公司接触客户的方式。

Limit the ways that sportsbooks can reach their customers.

科罗拉多州成为第一个允许体育博彩的州，禁止体育博彩公司向客户发送手机推送通知和短信。

Colorado became the first state where sports betting is allowed to ban sportsbooks from sending customers push notifications on their phones and text messages.

比如提醒你，嘿。

Reminders like, hey.

看起来有场比赛要开始了。

Looks like a game is on.

想下注吗？

Wanna bet?

他们法律中的另一部分是限制客户每天存款的次数。

Another part of their law is limiting the number of deposits that a customer can make in a single day.

现在这个数字是六。

That number is now six.

一开始我觉得这听起来有点疯狂。

And at first, I thought this sounded kind of nuts.

顾客总是可以换到其他体育博彩公司，找到绕过的方法。

Customers can always move to another sports book, find ways around it.

但马特解释了他为什么想限制赌徒一天内往账户里加钱的次数。

But Matt explained why he wanted to limit the number of times gamblers could add money to their accounts in just one day.

当你有问题的时候，你可能会设定一个预算。

When you have a problem, you might set a budget.

我有100美元。

I've got a $100.

我打算这个周末把它赌掉。

I'm gonna bet it this weekend.

你一下子就把那笔钱花光了。

You blow through that.

嘿。

Hey.

我得把钱赢回来。

I gotta make it back.

你存了200美元。

You deposit $200.

对吧？

Right?

你输了。

You lose that.

你又存了400美元。

You deposit $400.

你一直在追回损失。

You just keep chasing your losses.

我们想衡量的一件事是，这有多有效？

One thing that we wanna measure is how effective is that?

马特说，归根结底，这项法案是一次考验。

And Matt says, ultimately, this bill is a test.

设置存款限额真的会有用吗？

Would a deposit limit even make a difference?

我第一个承认，我们目前没有任何数据。

I'd be the first to admit we don't have any data.

所以从某种意义上说，我们其实是在猜测。

So in some sense, like, we're kinda guessing here.

阿德里安，你很少听到立法者直接承认他们是在凭感觉制定法律。

You rarely hear lawmakers just say we're kind of guessing with a law, Adrian.

我觉得，这恰恰说明了这个情况有多新鲜。

I mean, I guess it speaks to just how novel this situation is.

他们写法案的方式有点像乱枪打鸟，什么都试一下。

They're kind of taking the spaghetti at the wall approach to bill writing.

马特和拜伦的法案是难得的跨党派共识，想为实际问题找些解决办法。

Matt and Byron's bill is a rare bipartisan agreement to find some solutions for a real problem.

我们接触了各种人，有关心心理健康和孩子的组织，也有宗教右翼团体，他们对赌博有根本性的反对意见，其中一些团体在2019年就反对过赌博合法化。

We had everyone from, you know, organizations that care about mental health and care about kids to, you know, groups on the religious right who have a, you know, fundamental objection to gambling, who were some of the same groups that opposed the legalization of gambling back in 2019.

科罗拉多州今年夏天签署了这项法案，马特说其他州的立法者开始联系他。

Colorado signed the bill into law this summer, and Matt says legislators in other states are starting to reach out to him.

至少有10个其他州不像科罗拉多那样允许赌徒用信用卡存款，而且这个数字还在增长。

At least 10 other states don't allow betters to make deposits with a credit card like Colorado, a number that's growing.

来自Betterment的行为金融专家丹·伊根说，可能还有另一个乐观的角度。

Dan Egan from Betterment, the behavioral finance guy, he says there may be another optimistic angle.

我觉得每一代人都生活在不同的环境中，这和他们上一代人在那个年龄时的环境不同。

I feel like every generation lives in a new context that was different than the previous one's context when they were that age.

而且完全有可能我们看到的只是一个关于人们如何接触这些东西的新成长故事。

And it's entirely possible what we're seeing is just a new coming of age story about how people engage with this stuff.

随着一代人逐渐长大，他们可能会意识到体育博彩不是轻松赚钱的方式，也不是什么投资策略。

As generations grow older, they may realize that sports betting is not easy money or any kind of investment strategy.

丹指出了一项关于股市日内交易的研究，你可以说这和赌博很相似，比如交易者试图从市场的快速波动中赚钱。

Dan pointed a research on day trading in the stock market, which you could argue is adjacent to gambling, like traders are trying to make money from quick swings in the market.

研究发现，大多数日内交易者通常亏了几年钱之后就会退出。

The research found that most day traders generally quit after losing money for a couple of years.

也许这是一笔昂贵的学费，但希望他们能学到东西。

Maybe it's an expensive education, but hopefully they will learn.

持续亏钱总会让人厌倦，而且一些年轻一代的人已经不用亏钱就明白了这个游戏的规则。

Losing money consistently can get old, and some people in younger generations already understand the game without losing money.

比如山姆，我们之前那位Z世代体育博彩玩家。

Like Sam, our former Gen Z sports gambler.

他说他拿了促销奖金，下注了几场比赛，然后就把钱提出来了。

He says he took the promotion money, bet on some games, and then cashed out.

不过我从来没用自己的钱下过注。

I never bet any of my own money, though.

那感觉像是个陷阱，我不想陷进去。

That felt like a good trap that I didn't wanna get into.

我大概赢了一千多美元吧。

I won probably over, like, a thousand dollars.

倒也不是什么特别夸张的事，但确实挺有意思的。

Not anything like crazy, but it's still, like, it was fun.

一千美元什么时候不算多了？

Since when is a thousand dollars not a lot of money?

我觉得一千块也能玩得很开心啊。

I I feel like I could have some fun with a grand.

别，瑞奇。

No, Ricky.

别掉进那个陷阱里。

Don't fall into the trap.

拿了奖金就跑。

Take the bonus and run.

本期节目由库珀·卡茨·麦金制作，特拉维斯·哈根和西娜·洛弗雷多负责工程。

This episode was produced by Cooper Katz McKim and engineered by Travis Hagen and Sina Lofredo.

事实核查由西拉·华雷斯完成。

It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez.

这期节目由朱莉娅·里奇编辑。

Julia Ritchie edited this episode.

凯特·布坎南是我们节目的编辑，《指标》是NPR的一档节目。

Kate Buchanan is our show's editor, and The Indicator is a production of NPR.

本周的NPR政治播客中，民主社会主义者正迎来他们的高光时刻。

This week on the NPR politics podcast, democratic socialists are having a moment.

他们的目标是什么？

What's their goal?

目标最终是重新调整民主党，也许有一天能发展出一个独立政党，但我们认识到，在美国，就是存在两党制。

The goal being to eventually realign the democratic party to perhaps someday develop an independent party, but we recognize that in The United States, there just is a two party system.

民主社会主义者是如何划定政治版图的。

How democratic socialists are staking out political territory.

本周的NPR政治播客。

This week on the NPR politics podcast.

你好。

Hi there.

我是布兰妮·卢斯。

I'm Britney Luce.

不是吹牛，我主持的播客真的超棒。

And not to brag, but I host a really fabulous podcast.

节目叫《It's Been a Minute》。

It's called it's been a minute.

我超爱做这个节目，相信你也会喜欢听的。

I love making it, and I think you'll love listening to it.

过去一年，有几十万听众在收听。

Over the last year, hundreds of thousands of listeners have been tuning in.

我得说，如果你还没听过，那你真的错过了。

And I gotta say, if you haven't yet, you're missing out.

今天就收听NPR的《It's Been a Minute》播客吧。

Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast from NPR today.