The multimillion dollar Saturday Night Live UK gamble

NPR。

NPR.

这是《金钱星球》的标识。

This is the indicator for Planet Money.

我是韦隆·王，今天和我在一起的是英国记者塔拉·维斯特拉姆。

I'm Waylon Wong, and here with me today is British journalist, Tala Vistram.

嗨，韦隆。

Hey, Waylon.

很高兴来到这里。

Great to be here.

很高兴有你。

Great to have you.

如果你在过去五十年里接触过任何电视节目，你一定听过这句熟悉的口号。

Now if you've been anywhere near a TV set in the past fifty years, you've certainly heard this familiar catchphrase.

来自纽约的现场直播，这里是《周六夜现场》。

Live from New York, it's Saturday Night.

你从未听过的是这个。

What you've never heard is this.

来自伦敦，这是周六夜现场。

Live from London, it's Saturday Night.

哇。

Wow.

对。

Yes.

平扭辫。

Flat twist.

直到上个周末，美国标志性的深夜喜剧小品节目《周六夜现场》才在英国首播。

That is until this past weekend when America's iconic late night sketch show, Saturday Night Live, made its British debut.

就像英国幽默本身一样，我忍不住对这个前景持怀疑态度。

And like British humor itself, I couldn't help but be cynical about the prospect.

我的意思是，你怎么能复制一个像苹果派一样美国化的机构，并且超越一个斩获了93座艾美奖的巨无霸呢？

I mean, how do you copy an institution as American as apple pie and measure up to a behemoth that's racked up 93 Emmys?

答案就是多加点牛铃。

The answer to that is more cowbell.

今天在节目中，我们将探讨SNL英国版这一价值数百万美元的豪赌。

Today on the show, the multimillion dollar gamble that is SNL UK.

你知道吗？在NPR的黄金时段新闻播客《Up First》中，我们每天都会为你带来三条关键新闻。

You know, every day on Up First, NPR's Golden Globe nominated morning news podcast, we bring you three essential stories.

每条新闻的核心都是问题。

At the heart of each story are questions.

到底发生了什么？

What really happened?

真正重要的是什么？

What really mattered?

接下来会发生什么？

What happens next?

在NPR，我们捍卫你追求好奇心和追寻事实的权利。

At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious and to follow the facts.

在您收听播客的任何平台关注《Follow-up First》，开启您的一天，了解哪些事情重要以及为什么重要。

Follow-up First wherever you get your podcasts and start your day knowing what matters and why.

《周六夜现场》可能已不再像半个世纪前那样具有前沿性。

Saturday Night Live may not be the cutting edge offering it was half a century ago.

许多曾经忠实的观众已经不再观看，至少不再通过电视收看。

Many once faithful viewers have tuned out, at least on the television.

如今的节目平均每集观众人数为四到五百万。

Episodes today average four to 5,000,000 viewers.

这一数字相比七十年代末的一千三百万已经大幅下降。

That's down from 13,000,000 in the late seventies.

那么，为什么现在要推出英国版呢？

So why a British version now?

在并购盛行的时代，有一起收购为这个项目铺平了道路。

Well, in an era of mergers and acquisitions, one buyout has paved the way for this project.

2018年，美国媒体巨头收购了英国媒体网络天空电视台，而该节目正是由天空电视台播出。

In 2018, American media giant, purchased The UK media network Sky, which is airing the show.

康卡斯特还拥有环球影业，后者正在制作英国版节目，同时拥有NBC，负责在美国播出《周六夜现场》。

Comcast also owns Universal, which is producing The UK show, and NBC, which airs SNL in The States.

所以保持怀疑态度是很自然的。

So it's easy to be skeptical.

这难道只是全球企业扩张而已吗？

Is this nothing more than just global corporate expansion?

是的。

Yeah.

而且，你知道，这也面临不少挑战。

And, you know, there's a fair share of challenges too.

首先，这是一种非常美式的喜剧风格。

First, it's a very American style of comedy.

我花了很多时间思考，什么是本质上英国式的幽默，或者英式幽默，与美式幽默有何不同。

I spend a lot of my time thinking about what's a fundamentally English sense of humor or British sense of humor versus a very American sense of humor.

埃里卡·霍顿在攻读博士学位时研究了英国电视和喜剧。

Erica Horton studied British television and comedy for her PhD.

英国喜剧擅长讽刺、高端和戏剧性的表达，许多来自剑桥和牛津的高学历人才成为了我们的电视明星。

British kind of has the satire, the prestige, the theatrical understanding, a lot of very well educated people coming out of Cambridge and Oxford becoming our big TV stars.

而美国模式则更注重魅力与性感，总在说‘看我’；相比之下，英国喜剧更像是‘天啊，你真的在看我吗？’

Whereas the American model is kind of glamorous and sexy and it's saying look at me whereas British comedy is much more like, oh god, are you looking at me?

我真的很抱歉。

I'm so sorry.

这解释了为什么许多喜剧在跨大西洋传播时总是难以成功。

That explains why many comedies have struggled to stick the Transatlantic landing.

是的。

Yes.

本尼·希尔或许曾经一度大获成功。

Benny Hill might have struck gold once upon a time.

但每一个本尼·希尔背后，都有像《阿曼达》这样失败的《弗尔蒂旅馆》翻拍版。

But for every Benny Hill, there are failed copies, like a remake of Fawlty Towers called Amanda's.

我对这个完全没印象。

I have no memory of this.

我以前根本没听说过

I had never even heard

它。

of it.

但在全球媒体环境中，今天出现了更多跨大西洋融合的迹象。

But there are more signs of crossover potential today in a global media landscape.

以英国广播公司的节目《新闻问答》为例。

Take the BBC series, Have I Got News For You?

像一个问答节目，但有名人参与和轻松的闲聊。

Like a quiz show, but with celebrities and banter.

它已经持续了三十六年，而美国版已于2024年在CNN推出。

It's been going strong for thirty six years, and an American version just launched in 2024 on CNN.

由《每日秀》的前成员罗伊·伍德 Jr. 主持。

It's hosted by Daily Show alum Roy Wood junior.

当局表示，这个病房里只有一个人负责做决定。

Administration says that there's only one person that's in charge of calling the shots on this ward.

那个人是谁？

Who is that person?

内塔尼亚胡。

Netanyahu.

这

The

杰弗里·爱泼斯坦的幽灵。

ghost of Jeffrey Epstein.

出乎意料的是，它表现得相当不错。

Against the odds, it's doing pretty well.

现在已经播到第四季了。

It's now on its fourth season.

这并不太合我的口味，因为它和原版感觉不一样。

It's not really to my taste because it feels different to the original.

也许我只是陷入了评判美国喜剧总是更尴尬的典型陷阱。

Maybe I'm just falling into the classic trap of judging American comedy to be a bit more, I don't know, cringey.

你怎么敢？

How dare you?

我们这儿可喜欢这种尴尬了。

We love our cringe around here.

我觉得说《周六夜现场》很尴尬，这种想法简直太对了。

And I think the idea that Saturday Night Live is cringe is kind of absolutely, yeah.

有时候笑话会翻车，但这就是现场直播的刺激之处。

Sometimes jokes go wrong, but that's part of the excitement of the live setting.

正因如此，你才会看到威尔·法瑞尔和牛铃一起出演的蓝牡蛎崇拜小品。

And out of that, you do get the blue oyster cult sketch with Will Ferrell and the cowbell.

迪金森想要更多的牛铃。

Dickinson wants more cowbell.

我们或许真该给他更多牛铃。

We should probably give him more cowbell.

嘿，宝贝。

Hey, babe.

我必须要有更多的牛铃。

I gotta have more cowbell.

还有蒂娜·菲扮演的莎拉·佩林，以及这些被反复剪辑和播放的片段。

Oh, and you get Tina Feyre's Sarah Palin and all of these things that get chopped and played and played and played.

嘿。

Hey.

让开。

Get out of my way.

别再试图干涉我从直升机上射杀狼的权利。

Stop trying to impose on my right to shoot wolves from a helicopter.

关键是，也许别把同一档节目的两个版本拿来比较。

The key is maybe don't compare two versions of the same show.

它们是独立的个体，比如《办公室》，在大西洋两岸都成了截然不同但大获成功的热门剧集。

They are their own entities like The Office, which became two very different but massive hits on both sides of the pond.

英国版《周六夜现场》已经采纳了这一观点。

SNL UK has taken that theory on board.

演员阵容主要来自当地的喜剧圈。

The cast of players is largely from local comedy circles.

这让人想起那些在登上SNL之前还默默无闻、后来成为全球巨星的演员，从默里和墨菲，到桑德勒和费瑞尔。

That's reminiscent of the unknown names who appeared on SNL before becoming global stars, from Murray and Murphy to Sandler and Ferrell.

归根结底，它只是一档素描喜剧秀，源自蒙提·派森时代的英式传统。

At its core, it's just a sketch show, a very British tradition from the days of Monty Python.

当然。

Sure.

《名人 jeopardy》《韦恩的世界》和教堂女士这些桥段可能难以移植，但它会发展出符合本地市场的原创小品。

Celebrity Jeopardy, Wayne's World, and Church Lady might not translate, but it'll develop its own skits that fit the market.

但要让这个节目成功，压力非常大。

But there's a lot of pressure to make it work.

SNL的创作者洛恩·迈克尔斯和他的SNL元老团队深度参与，力求把握住节目的核心模式。

SNL creator, Lorne Michaels, and his crew of SNL veterans are heavily involved in getting the formula right.

据称，他和赛斯·梅耶斯曾亲临伦敦参与剧本朗读。

He and Seth Meyers reportedly sat in on table reads in London.

蒂娜·菲主持了第一期节目。

Tina Fey hosted the first episode.

但即使他们掌握了正确的模式，还有另一个挑战。

But even if they get the formula right, there's another challenge.

这非常昂贵。

It's super expensive.

在线娱乐新闻网站Vulture报道称，单集成本可达400万美元。

The online entertainment news website Vulture reported that a single episode can cost $4,000,000.

可以说，这些预算远高于英国节目惯常的水平。

It's fair to say these are budgets far higher than British shows are used to.

像《新闻问答》这样的典型综艺节目的成本远低于50万美元。

A typical panel show like Have I Got News For You costs well below half $1,000,000.

主要成本来自于直播电视的性质。

The major cost is the nature of live TV.

精心制作的布景和道具只为五分钟的小品服务，之后便永远消失。

Elaborate sets and accoutrement all made for five minute sketches then gone forever.

埃文·夏皮罗是一位媒体分析师，曾任NBC环球的执行副总裁。

Evan Shapiro is a media analyst and a former executive vice president at NBC Universal.

你去过《周六夜现场》吗？

Have you ever been to Saturday Night Live?

太棒了。

It's amazing.

有三个演播室，还有各种布景。

There's three stages, and then there's all these sets.

在拍摄间隙布景切换的流畅程度，甚至比节目本身还精彩。

And just the ballet of the sets in between takes is better than the show itself.

有x台摄像机，x名舞台工作人员。

It's x number of cameras, x number of stagehands.

每周要制作出表面上看似12个短剧，这需要一大批编剧。

There's a number of writers it takes to produce what is ostensibly 12 short plays every week.

这就是这个节目的成本所在。

That's what that show costs.

当我们询问时，Sky没有透露其单集预算，但与英国的广播频道相比，它的预算相当充裕。

Sky didn't share its episode budget when we asked, but it has a pretty healthy budget compared to The UK's broadcast channels.

而洛恩·迈克尔斯的公司Broadway Video将协助融资。

And Lorne Michaels' company Broadway Video will help with the financing.

但即使他们资金充裕，还有一个障碍，那就是英国人获取娱乐的方式。

But even if they are flush with cash, there's another obstacle, how Brits get their entertainment.

埃文表示，英国媒体行业许多人对传统电视上瘾。

Evan says many in The UK media industry are addicted to traditional television.

你看到这些人屏住呼吸，直到脸憋得通红，只盼着过去能回来。

You've got these people who just hold their breath until they're blue in the face and wish that the past would return.

这正是英国媒体行业需要更多转向数字平台、抛开对传统电视的执念的时刻，而Sky正在积极拥抱这一趋势。

This is the very moment when the British media industry needs to shift more to digital and forget its hang ups with traditional telly, and Sky is leaning into that.

该剧将在SkyOne——该卫星网络的顶级娱乐频道，以及其流媒体平台Now上播出，Now曾播出过《白莲花》和《继承之战》等重磅美剧。

The show will be airing on SkyOne, the satellite network's premier entertainment channel, and also on its streaming service Now, which has carried marquee American shows like The White Lotus and Succession.

所以这部剧本质上是在说：我们要同时兼顾互联网和电视。

So this show basically saying we're gonna be Internet and television at the same time.

是的。

Yes.

这是朝着正确方向迈出的一步。

This is a step in the right direction.

这种模式也减轻了对广告收入的依赖，因为订阅能保证一定的收入。

The model also puts less pressure on advertising pounds because subscriptions guarantee some revenue.

如今人们已经拥有流媒体订阅服务，主要目标不再是拉新，而是留住用户。

Now that people have their streaming subscriptions, the main goal isn't sign ups, it's customer retention.

有鉴于此，非剧本类内容，比如经典的素描喜剧，迎来了显著增长。

With that in mind, there's been a real rise in unscripted content, like the trusty sketch show.

埃文有一个主要疑虑，这也是第四个挑战。

Evan has one big qualm, and this is the fourth challenge.

天空电视台只订购了六集。

Sky has only ordered six episodes.

这不足以证明它值这么多钱。

That's not a lot of time to demonstrate it's worth the big bucks.

你已经告诉了编剧团队。

You've told the writing staff.

你已经告诉了演员们。

You've told the cast.

你已经告诉了剧集主创们，你们只有一个半月的时间。

You've told the showrunners you have a month and a half.

如果这行不通，我们就取消项目。

And if it doesn't work, we're gonna pull the plug.

这种压力，这种倒计时，让幽默变得难以实现。

And that pressure, that ticking time bomb makes it hard to be funny.

这个笑话得停顿一下。

That joke's gotta sit for a second.

《宋飞正传》一开始并不成功。

Seinfeld was not successful at first.

《恶搞之家》曾被取消，后来又复播了。

Family Guy got canceled and then came back.

但数字模式可能已经涵盖了这一点。

But the digital model might already have that covered.

如今，社交媒体为 sketches 提供了第二轮曝光机会，有时甚至在播出数天或数周后。

These days, social media offers a second round of exposure for sketches, sometimes days or weeks after they air.

这就是《周六夜现场》可能仍是一个潜在爆款的原因。

That's where SNL might still be a sleeper hit.

在美国，电视收视率数据可能具有误导性，因为《周六夜现场》实际上是美国 YouTube 上观看次数最多的节目。

The low TV figures might be deceiving in The US because SNL is actually the biggest show on YouTube in The US by unique views.

我原本以为以数字优先的方式可能会流失老年观众，但埃文告诉我，YouTube 上增长最快的观众群体之一是 55 岁以上的人群。

I thought digital first may run the risk of losing older audiences, but Evan actually told me one of the fastest growing audience segments on YouTube is over 55.

当然，艾丽卡说它也会吸引年轻观众。

And, of course, Erica says it will also engage the younger viewers.

寻找年轻观众是通过 TikTok。

Finding younger people is through TikTok.

是通过剪辑和社交媒体，比如蒂莫西·查拉梅特说他不在乎芭蕾舞的那段视频。

It is through clipping and social media, and a clip of Timothy Chalamet saying he doesn't care about ballet.

我们会比我们这些老一辈人守着BBC一台直播看新闻要快得多地环游世界。

We'll go around the world way faster than us old folk watching BBC One Live to watch if I got news for you.

如果英国人能给它足够的耐心，也许他们能从美国人身上借来一些乐观精神？

If only the Brits gave it the patience it needs, maybe they could borrow some optimism from Americans?

我觉得，把所有这些压力都施加在这个版本的《周六夜现场》上是不公平的，毕竟这是一个由年轻人聚集在一起、创作、实验、做着喜剧电视所需的一切的团队。

I think it's unfair for all this pressure to be put on this version of this massive successful Hollywood sprinkled meme machine of Saturday Night Live when this is a group of young people getting together, making something, experimenting, doing all the things that comedy television requires.

嗯，你知道的，为了提升国民士气，我们确实需要一些乐观情绪和更多的笑声。

Well, you know, in the spirit of raising the national morale, we could certainly use some optimism and some more laugh.

我们这边也需要这些。

We could use that on this side of the pond too.

谢谢你来参加节目，塔利布。

Thank you for coming on the show, Talib.

很高兴再次来到这里。

Great to be here again.

谢谢，魏林。

Thanks, Wei Lin.

本集由朱莉娅·里奇制作，音频工程由西诺·洛弗雷多负责。

This episode was produced by Julia Ritchie with engineering by Sino Lofredo.

本集内容由西耶拉·华雷斯核对。

It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez.

基克·坎农是我们节目的编辑，制作由美国国家公共电台提供。

Kicking Cannon is our show's editor, and the indicator is the production of NPR.