比特币矿工正押注于人工智能而非加密货币

NPR。

NPR.

这里是《金钱星球》的指标节目。

This is the indicator from Planet Money.

我是达里安·伍兹。

I'm Darian Woods.

我是史蒂文·比萨哈。

And I'm Steven Bisaha.

比特币世界正在发生一场重大转变。

There's a big shift happening right now in the world of Bitcoin.

不，我们讨论的不是近几个月价格暴跌的情况。

And no, we are not talking about how much the price has plummeted in recent months.

我们说的是更深层次的转变。

We're talking about a deeper shift.

一场触及加密货币运作核心的地下变革正在发生。

One happening underground that gets to the core of how the cryptocurrency works.

我们要深入比特币矿场了。

We're going into the Bitcoin mines.

比特币的特点在于，它不像美元那样由美国财政部这样的单一机构负责发行新币。

The thing about Bitcoin is that it does not have one group in charge of making new coins like the US treasury for the dollar.

相反，所谓的比特币矿工通过计算机解决复杂的数学问题。

Instead, the so called Bitcoin miners solve complex math problems on computers.

如果他们成功了，一枚比特币就诞生了。

And if they're successful, a Bitcoin is born.

过去

It used

几乎任何人都可以在卧室里完成这项工作。

to be that pretty much anyone could do this, in their bedroom even.

但现在你需要相当强大的计算机和大量能源。

But you need pretty powerful computers and a lot of energy.

所以如今，这项工作主要由拥有大型数据中心的公司来完成。

So today, it's mostly done by companies with big data centers.

但最近，这些公司正从比特币挖矿转向一项新技术。

But recently, those companies are shifting away from Bitcoin mining to a new technology.

是的。

Yes.

它是整个经济的巨大颠覆者，也在撼动比特币领域。

It is the great disruptor of the entire economy, and it's shaking up Bitcoin too.

他们正在转向人工智能。

They're switching to AI.

AI终将取代我们所有人。

AI comes for us all.

所以在今天的节目中，我们将探讨为何这些公司放下虚拟的镐头，转而成为AI世界里的房东。

So on today's show, why these companies are putting down their virtual pickaxes and becoming landlords in the world of AI.

我们谈论的其中一家比特币挖矿公司名为Bitfarms，其CEO是本·加格农。

One of the Bitcoin mining companies we're talking about is called Bitfarms, and the CEO is Ben Gagnon.

我们有四位联合创始人，其中两位来自阿根廷，他们曾在一家阿根廷小旅馆里开采比特币和以太币。

We had four cofounders, two of them from Argentina who were actually mining Bitcoin and ether in a small Argentinian hotel.

我觉得那些长期从事加密货币挖矿的人，典型形象就是在酒店房间里，服务器堆得乱七八糟，还用胶带粘在一起。

I feel like the stereotypical image of people who have been coin mining for so long was, like, in a hotel room with a bunch of servers all, like, duct taped together.

你们当初真的是这样起步的吗？

That's how you all actually started?

我想最初是在地下室开始的，但没错，后来确实搬到了酒店。

I think it started in a basement, but yeah, it was it was in a hotel for sure.

Bitfarm已经从地下室搬到了大型数据中心。

Bitfarm has since moved up from a basement to big data centers.

该公司在北美拥有十几处这样的数据中心。

The company has a dozen of them in North America.

而且Bitfarms远不是唯一从地下时期发展起来的公司。

And Bitfarms is far from the only company that's grown since those underground days.

不同估计显示，去年加密货币挖矿市场规模约在15亿到20多亿美元之间。

Different estimates put the market size for crypto mining last year at around 1 and a half to over $2,000,000,000.

但这个市场规模最终可能会萎缩。

But that market size could end up shrinking.

像Iron Riot、TerraWolf和Cypher Mining这样的公司最近都宣布从挖矿业务转向运营AI数据中心。

Companies like Iron Riot, TerraWolf, and Cypher Mining have all recently announced moves away from mining to running data centers for AI.

Bitfarm的比特币挖矿业务未来会怎样？

What is the future of Bitcoin mining at Bitfarm?

实际上我们正在大幅缩减比特币挖矿业务。

Well, we're actually scaling back the Bitcoin mining business quite aggressively.

我们已经出售了多处矿场。

We've we've sold off a number of sites.

很可能在未来一两年内，比特币挖矿业务将完全终止。

Likely over the next year or two, the Bitcoin mining business is is gonna, you know, completely wind up.

问题是公司名叫Bitfarms（比特币农场）。

I mean, the name is Bitfarms.

不挖比特币的Bitfarms算什么？

What is Bitfarms without the Bitcoin?

要知道，比特（bits）并不专指比特币。

Well, you know, bits are are not specific to Bitcoin.

对吧？

Right?

是比特。

It's bits.

AI也使用比特。

AI uses bits.

好吧。

Okay.

不错的反驳。

Good comeback.

而且，你知道，比特其实是思考这个问题相当有用的方式。

And, you know, bits are actually a pretty useful way of thinking about this.

归根结底，有些比特可以携带电荷，这正是比特币矿工取得领先所需的燃料。

Some bits can, at the end of the day, hold an electric charge and that is the fuel needed for Bitcoin miners to get ahead.

在AI竞赛中也是如此。

That's especially true in the AI race as well.

是啊。

Yeah.

不过需要了解的重要一点是，比特币矿工实际上并不生产能源。

And what's important to know though is that Bitcoin miners, they don't actually make energy.

相反，他们与电力公司签订协议购买电力。

Instead, they have agreements with power companies to buy power.

本提到，这类协议的谈判可能耗时很久。

Something Ben says can take a long time to negotiate.

能源才是真正的资产。

The energy is the asset.

能源才是所有价值的所在。

The energy is where all the value is.

而比特币矿工只是我们利用能源并将其货币化的方式。

And the Bitcoin miners were just how we use the energy and monetize the energy.

但核心价值始终在于能源本身。

But it was the energy which was the core value.

所以我听到的是，别叫我们比特币挖矿公司。

So what I'm hearing is don't call us a Bitcoin mining company.

别叫我们人工智能公司。

Don't call us an AI company.

叫我们能源公司。

Call us an energy company.

对。

Yeah.

叫我们能源与基础设施公司。

Call us energy and infrastructure company.

我们解决的是能源瓶颈问题。

What we solve is the bottleneck on energy.

对吧？

Right?

而且在美国获取能源需要数年时间。

And getting access to energy takes years in The United States.

因此，获得能源供应意味着你能以更高的确定性更快地推进项目。

And so having that access to energy means that you can start moving a lot faster with greater certainty.

现在需要指出的是，比特币和人工智能都消耗大量能源，这推高了全国电价，还经常排放温室气体。

Now we should mention that both Bitcoin and AI use massive amounts of energy that's driving up electricity prices across the country and often dumping greenhouse gases.

我们都知道这对气候不利。

And we know that is not good for the climate.

是的。

Yeah.

电力公司也在寻求生产更多电力以满足所有这些需求。

Power companies are also looking to generate more electricity to meet all this demand.

但目前供应量是有限的。

But for now, there's a limited supply.

所以如果你是拥有能源供应的公司，要在比特币和AI之间做选择，选AI并不难。

So if you're a company with access to this energy and you had to pick to use it for Bitcoin or AI, it's not hard to pick AI.

毕竟这是当前推动股市的热门技术。

I mean, is the hot tech that is driving the stock market right now.

这就是英伟达如何成为一家市值5万亿美元的公司。

It's how NVIDIA became a $5,000,000,000,000 company.

是啊。

Yeah.

而比特币挖矿则要经历比特币价格过山车般的起伏。

Bitcoin mining on the other hand requires riding the Bitcoin price roller coaster up and down.

长年累月这样做，可能会从刺激变成令人精疲力尽。

Do that for years and it could go from thrilling to exhausting.

比特币挖矿的波动性极大，以至于很难预测公司未来两年内的发展规划。

Bitcoin mining is so volatile that it's really hard to, you know, forecast how you wanna grow the company over the next, you know, even two years.

就像，你最多只能规划十二个月或更短的时间框架，而明天可能发生任何变故，让你的计划瞬间失去意义。

Like, you're looking at a twelve month or less time frame, and something could happen tomorrow, which means that your plans don't make sense anymore.

所以你要继续坐这趟过山车吗？

So you can stay on the roller coaster?

还是

Or

你可以转向一个业务，你知道的，既不波动又稳定可预测，拥有更高的收入、更高的利润率和更强的现金流。

You can move over to a business that is, you know, not volatile not volatile and and is predictable, has higher revenues, higher margins, higher cash flows.

我想这对你的血压会好很多。

I imagine it's a lot better for your blood pressure.

肯定没坏处。

Certainly doesn't hurt.

也许对他的血压有好处，但我们最近听到的所有关于AI泡沫的讨论让很多投资者的血压都升高了。

Good for his blood pressure maybe, but all of this AI bubble talk we've been hearing lately is raising the blood pressure of lots of investors.

现在本并不太担心泡沫问题。

Now Ben is not too worried about a bubble.

有趣的是，即使进行了这种转变，他仍然是比特币的信徒。

And interestingly, even with this switch, he is still a believer in Bitcoin.

他是个乐观主义者。

He's the optimist.

我们公司里都是比特币支持者。

We're all Bitcoiners here at this company.

我们都加入了一家比特币公司。

We are all joined a Bitcoin company.

我们都相信比特币。

We all believe in Bitcoin.

我们都持有比特币。

We all own Bitcoin.

所以这不是任何人轻易做出的决定。

So that's not a decision that anyone made lightly.

作为比特币信徒而非比特农场CEO的本，我想两者都是。

Talking to Ben as the Bitcoin believer and not Ben as the Bitfarm CEO, I I guess both.

对你来说，作为一个比特币信徒却要转型离开，这意味着什么？

What does it mean to you to be a Bitcoin believer and be like, well, we're pivoting away from it?

你知道，我不确定这其中是否存在冲突。

You know, I don't know if there's a conflict there.

对吧？

Right?

比如，你可以相信比特币，但这可能对你或公司而言，在资产和战略上并不是正确的选择。

Like, you can believe in Bitcoin, and it can also not be the right thing for you or the company to do with, you know, your assets and your strategy.

这并不意味着我要卖掉我的比特币。

Doesn't mean I'm selling my Bitcoin.

也不意味着我不再相信比特币，只是对公司本身而言有更好的机会。

Doesn't mean I no longer believe in Bitcoin, but it just means that there's a better opportunity for the for the company itself.

并非所有矿工都在收拾他们的虚拟矿镐。

Not all the miners are packing up their virtual pickaxes.

讽刺的是，一家坚持运营的公司甚至不是那些比特币信徒中的一员。

And ironically, one company keeping it going isn't even one of those Bitcoin believers.

对我们来说，如今的比特币挖矿能产生极其可观的现金流。

Bitcoin mining for us today is is extremely cash flow generative.

澳大利亚人对挖矿很在行。

Aussies know a lot about mining.

是啊。

Yeah.

这位澳大利亚人就是肯特·德雷珀。

And that Aussie is Kent Draper.

他是Iron公司的首席商务官，该公司也是一家比特币挖矿企业。

He's the chief commercial officer at Iron, which is another company that mines Bitcoin.

即使近期比特币价格下跌，仍为我们创造了大量现金流。

Even with the recent falls in the Bitcoin price, still generating large amounts of cash for us.

实际上，Iron最初成立时并非为了挖比特币。

Now Iron was not actually formed to mine Bitcoin.

这家公司七年前成立时本质上是一场豪赌。

Instead, the company was created seven years ago essentially as a bet.

没错。

Yeah.

这场赌注押在快速发展的科技世界将需要先进的数据中心。

The bet was that in this rapidly growing tech world, there was going to be a need for advanced data centers.

因此，Iron建造了这些数据中心，然后将它们用于任何能带来最高收益的计算任务。

So, Iron built those centers and then put them to use on whatever computing task would make the most money.

从历史上看，那就是比特币挖矿。

And historically, that was Bitcoin mining.

直到最近才转向人工智能领域，肯特确信明年AI将成为Iron的主要盈利来源。

Only recently has that shifted over to AI and Kent is confident that next year AI will be Iron's main moneymaker.

但他也没有把所有鸡蛋都放在AI这个篮子里。

But he's also not committing all his eggs to the AI basket.

比特币挖矿是一项收入来源，而AI现在是第二项。

Bitcoin mining is one revenue stream and AI is now a second.

根据业务划分方式不同，还有第三项。

Third based on how you break up the business.

随着新技术不断涌现，肯特坚持那个赌注——未来大型计算机和大量能源将有更多我们今天甚至无法想象的用途。

And as new technologies continue to emerge, Kent's sticking with that bet that there will be more uses for big computers and lots of energy that we can't even dream of today.

如果把时间倒回五年前，如今这样的AI还只是研发人员眼中的一丝微光。

If you rewind even, you know, five years ago, I mean, AI as it is today was a was a twinkle in the eye of, you know, a bunch of R and D people.

所以展望十年后，谁知道会出现什么应用场景呢？但我们觉得现在处于绝佳位置，既拥有这个出色的数据中心平台，又能获得大规模可再生能源。

So if you fast forward ten years from now, who knows what the use cases could be, but yeah, we feel as if we're sitting in a great spot where we have access to this amazing data center platform, as well as renewable energy at large scale.

好吧，所以别称之为转型，叫它多元化发展？

Alright, so don't call it a pivot, call it a diversifying?

是的，我们一直告诉大家对我们来说这不是转型，只是平台持续演进的过程。

Yeah, I mean we consistently tell people for us it's not a pivot, it's just an ongoing evolution of the platform.

这就是我们更倾向于看待它的方式。

So that's certainly how we like to think of it.

所以Darian，这些都是关于AI未来科技的乐观看法。

So Darian, this is a lot of AI future tech optimism.

我是说，Ben Gagnon甚至用九十年代的互联网泡沫来反驳对AI泡沫的担忧，而今天我们依然拥有庞大的基于网络的经济体系。

I mean, Ben Gagnon even dismissed AI bubble concerns by saying there was a .com bubble in the nineties, and yet we still have a massive web based economy today.

是啊。

Yeah.

如果我要寻找乐观的例子，互联网泡沫可能是我最后会想到的。

If I were looking for optimism, the .com bubble might be the last place I'd look.

明天我们将讨论类似的崩盘现在可能意味着什么，情况并不乐观。

Tomorrow, we'll have a conversation about what a similar crash could mean now, and it's not pretty.

本期节目由Cooper Kasman Kim制作，Debbie Daughtry担任技术工程师。

This episode is produced by Cooper Kasman Kim and engineered by Debbie Daughtry.

事实核查由Sierra Wadis负责。

It was fact checked by Sierra Wadis.

我们的编辑是Kate Kukanan。

Kate Kukanan is our editor.

《指标》是美国国家公共电台（NPR）的出品节目。

The Indicator is production of NPR.