比特币暴跌，1Password进入新增长阶段，Beehiiv推出创作者工具集 | 2025年11月17日

欢迎各位收看Informations TI TV。

Welcome everyone to the Informations TI TV.

我叫阿卡什·帕什里查。

My name is Akash Pashricha.

今天是11月17日，星期一。

It is Monday, November 17.

今天我们为大家准备了一场精彩的节目。

We have got a great show lined up for you today.

首先，比特币和加密货币股票正在下跌。

First up, Bitcoin and crypto stocks are falling.

我们的加密货币记者将剖析近期走势背后的原因。

Our crypto reporter will break down the why behind the latest moves.

接下来，在人工智能时代，安全既是挑战，也比以往任何时候都更加重要。

Next up, in the age of AI, security is both a challenge and also more important than ever.

我很高兴邀请1Password的首席执行官来谈谈安全问题，以及他公司目前的经营状况。

I'm excited to bring on the CEO of 1Password to talk about that and also about the state of his business.

我们还将与我们的埃隆·马斯克记者对话，探讨埃隆如何努力让特斯拉和xAI更紧密地协同工作。

We're also talking with our Elon Musk reporter about the ways Elon is trying to get Tesla and xAI to work more closely together.

最后，快速增长的通讯平台Beehive正扩展其业务，推出新功能，包括AI网站构建器和数字商业工具。

And finally, Beehive, the fast growing newsletters platform is expanding beyond just newsletters with new features, including an AI website builder and digital commerce tools.

你一定不要错过我与公司首席执行官泰勒·登克的对话。

You won't want to miss my conversation with the company CEO, Tyler Denck.

我真的很期待这次访谈。

I'm really excited for that one.

事情很多，让我们马上进入正题。

There is a lot going on, and so let's get right on into things.

最近加密货币价格有所降温，但真正的焦点是加密货币股票的暴跌，尤其是那些最近将主营业务转变为仅在资产负债表上持有加密货币的公司股票。

Crypto prices have been cooling off lately, but the real story has been the plunge of crypto stocks, especially the ones of companies whose sole purpose recently became just holding crypto on their balance sheets.

现在邀请我的是我们的加密货币记者杨越驰，他昨天在我们的《周日洞察》专栏中发表了一篇关于这一趋势的精彩文章。

Joining me now to discuss this is Yuechi Yang, our crypto reporter, who wrote a strong piece on that trend yesterday in our Sunday Insights column.

Yuechi，欢迎再次来到节目。

Yuechi, welcome back to the show.

很高兴你来这里。

It's great to have you here.

嘿，阿卡什。

Hey, Akash.

那我们来聊聊我们最喜欢的话题——加密货币库藏股票。

So let's talk about our favorite topic, the crypto treasury stocks.

这是我们新闻室里经常讨论的话题，我和你，因为这是一个持续发生的疯狂现象。

It's something that we talk about a lot in the newsroom, me and you, because it's it's a crazy phenomenon that has been going on.

在我们深入讨论加密货币库藏股票之前，我们先从加密货币价格本身说起。

Before we get to the crypto treasury stocks, let's just start with crypto prices directly.

最近比特币价格为何下跌？

Why are Bitcoin prices down as of late?

比特币已经抹去了今年的所有涨幅，这既是因为宏观原因，也是因为加密货币自身的因素。

So Bitcoin has erased all its gains this year, and it's down for both macro reasons and also crypto specific reasons.

总的来说，目前所有风险资产，包括一些科技股和加密货币，都在经历抛售。

Broadly speaking, there's currently a market sell off in all risky assets, including some tech stocks, crypto as well.

但在加密货币市场中，长期持有比特币的人正在套现。

But then within the crypto markets, long term Bitcoin holders are cashing out.

我们知道比特币历史上遵循四年周期，而这个周期原定于明年2026年结束。

We know that Bitcoin historically trade at a four year cycle, and the cycle was due to end next year in '26.

因此，人们正在试图提前布局这个周期。

So people are trying to front run that cycle.

但早在上个月初，就发生了一次大规模的清算事件，许多交易者被彻底击垮。

But also, earlier last month, there was a huge liquidation event that happened, and a lot of traders got wiped out.

因此，加密货币市场仍在从那次事件中恢复。

So the crypto market is still reeling from that.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们现在距离四年周期还早了一年。

So we're about a year early from the four year cycle.

但正如我们所知，泡沫担忧无处不在，因此加密货币价格开始下跌也就不难理解了。

But as we know, the bubble concerns are everywhere, so it kind of makes sense that maybe crypto prices are starting to dip.

现在加密货币 treasury 股票那边情况如何？

What's going on in the land of crypto treasury stocks now?

给我们说说现在发生了什么。

Tell us about what's what's happening.

今年，加密货币 treasury 股票已经成为加密领域最热门的现象。

The crypto treasury stock this year has really been the hottest phenomenon in crypto.

美国有超过160家公司转型为加密货币 treasury 股票公司，这意味着它们转向将购买并持有加密货币作为主要商业模式。

There were more than 160 stocks in The US that have turned themselves into crypto treasury stocks, which essentially mean that they're pivot team to buy crypto and hold crypto as their primary business model.

它们都在效仿 MicroStrategy 的策略，即购买并持有比特币，作为投资者接触加密资产的股票替代品。

And this they're all following the playbook of micro strategies micro strategy, which is buying Bitcoin and holding Bitcoin as a stock proxy for investors to exposure.

因此，根据 MyTally 的数据，这些股票大多数的交易表现甚至比其底层代币还要差。

So these stocks, from MyTally, they've been most of them have been trading down more so than than the underlying tokens themselves.

没错。

Right.

MicroStrategy 就是其中之一。

MicroStrategy is one of them.

更重要的是，历史上这些股票的交易价格相对于其持有的加密货币资产存在溢价，这正是它们融资机制的核心动力。

And more importantly, historically, these stocks trade at a premium to the underlying tokens, and that's really the engine of their fundraising mechanism.

意思是，公司市值历史上通常高于其持有的加密货币本身的市值，但现在情况却反过来了。

Meaning that the market cap of the company is historically more than the market cap of the crypto itself they hold, but now it's kind of inverse.

现在，公司的市值实际上低于其所持加密货币的实际价值。

Now the market cap is actually worth less than what the crypto would actually be worth.

是的。

Yes.

这给这些公司继续融资带来了巨大挑战，因为现在投资者不再愿意给它们资金，以便它们用这些钱去购买比原计划更少的代币。

And and that really creates challenge for these companies to continue their fundraising activities because now it doesn't make sense for investors to give them money so that they can then use it to buy less tokens than they had wanted to.

因此，这些股票曾是推动加密货币价格上涨的主要买方力量，但现在这一趋势似乎正在逆转。

And so these stocks have been a major buying force, driving up token prices in the crypto market, and now it seems like the trend is getting reversed.

你之前在故事中提到，有大量公司已经上市或正在考虑采用这种策略上市。

Now, you talked in the story about the multitude of companies that had gone public or were thinking about going public with this strategy.

你能简单谈谈这一趋势的规模有多大吗？

Can you just talk a little bit about the scope that this trend sort of played out?

大概有多少家公司呢？

How many companies were there roughly?

不只是比特币。

It wasn't just Bitcoin.

他们还开始囤积其他加密货币。

It it was other cryptocurrencies too that they began hoarding.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

在美国，有超过160家公司在美股上市，并宣布计划成为加密货币储备股公司。

In The US, there are more than 160 companies that are listed in The US stock market that have announced the plan to become a crypto treasury stocks.

150家。

A 150.

天哪。

Holy moly.

这太多了。

It is a lot.

而且今年他们筹集了惊人的资金，尤其是在夏天。

And they raised a astonishing amount of money this year, especially in the summer.

我们报道中的数据显示，融资金额在八月达到峰值，此后每月都在下降。

And we had data in our story that showed that the fundraising amount peaked in August, and it's been on decline every month since.

它们持有的代币类型也各不相同。

And the kind of tokens that they hold also vary.

因此，最大的那些持有比特币、以太坊和索拉纳，但也有许多公司持有更投机的代币，甚至包括特朗普代币。

So the biggest one are holding Bitcoin, Ease and Solana, but there are also plenty of companies that are holding more speculative tokens and even mint coins, such as the Trump mint coin.

这些股票的跌幅甚至比

And those stocks have plunged even more so than the

那么监管机构有没有注意到这一趋势呢？

Now have regulators at all picked up on this trend?

他们对此有任何担忧吗？

Did they have any concerns?

我们知道，美国证券交易委员会（SEC）对这些股票交易中可能存在的操纵行为感到担忧。

We know that the SEC is concerned about potential manipulation in some of the trading for these stocks.

在九月，SEC暂停了两只小盘股的交易，因为他们怀疑在公司宣布加密货币购买计划之前，这些股票存在潜在的操纵行为，并且他们担心一些人在公司公开宣布加密货币购买策略前，已在社交媒体上大力推广这些股票。

In September, the SEC suspended two small stocks because they suspected that there was potential manipulation on for the stock before they announced their crypto purchase plan, and they were concerned that some people are promoting these stocks heavily on social media before the company publicly announced their crypto purchase strategy.

告诉我，传统金融行业拥抱加密货币的举措，是否影响了他们对这一领域的看法？

And tell me, the move of the traditional financial sector to embrace crypto, Did this movement have any impact on how they've been thinking about it?

从合法性角度来看，这是否构成了一种风险？

Was it a risk at all in terms of legitimacy for the sector?

因为这看起来更像是昙花一现的热潮，让一些人暴富，但许多散户交易者却因股价暴跌而遭受重创。

Because it very much seems like a bit of a flash in the pan movement that got some people rich and largely left many retail traders reeling in some cases because of the fact that the stock has really been plunging.

对。

Right.

我认为这取决于具体情况。

I think it depends.

我们知道，许多传统机构此前一直未能提供加密货币服务，主要原因在于监管方面的顾虑。

So I know we know that the reason that a lot of traditional institutions have been held back from offering crypto services was largely regulatory concerns.

而且我认为这一点还没有改变。

And I don't that has changed yet.

因此，对于那些试图提供加密交易的公司，比如银行，我认为它们仍会继续推进。

So for the companies like banks that are trying to offer crypto trading, I think they will still move ahead.

但我预计加密货币Treasure股票的即将推出会受到影响。

But then I expect to see impacts on, the upcoming launches of crypto treasure stocks.

我也预计加密公司的IPO市场可能会受到影响，因为目前加密市场的整体环境并不乐观，投资者不再像以前那样热衷于拥抱与加密相关的股票。

And I also expect the IPO market for crypto companies to potentially be affected just the market environment for crypto right now is is not looking great and is no longer a red hot market for investors to be embracing crypto related stocks.

这确实很遗憾，因为我们原本正看到一批公司迅速走向退出。

Well, that's really too bad because we we were starting to see a slate of companies quickly march towards the exit.

而一旦IPO窗口关闭，你知道，在某些情况下，这个窗口期本来就很短。

And to the extent that that IPO window is closing, you know, that that was a pretty short window in some cases.

UHC，总是很高兴。

UHC, it's always a pleasure.

感谢你前来做客，我们会密切关注这个故事。

Thank you for coming on, and it's a story that we'll be watching closely.

所以我们期待很快再次邀请您做客。

So we look forward to having you on once again very soon.

好的。

Okay.

我们大多数人知道1Password是一款记住所有登录信息的应用程序，但这家公司已悄然成为企业安全领域的巨头，全球保护着超过十亿个用户和机器凭证。

Most of us know 1Password as the app that remembers all of your logins, but the company has quietly become a big player in enterprise security, protecting more than 1,000,000,000 human and machine credentials worldwide.

今天，我们邀请到1Password首席执行官大卫·福格诺，来谈谈公司在人工智能时代的发展历程，以及安全领域的未来走向。

Here to talk about how the company is evolving in the AI era and where security is headed next is 1Password CEO, David Fogno.

大卫，欢迎来到节目。

David, welcome to the show.

很高兴您能来到这里。

It's great to have you here.

很高兴您能来。

Lovely to have you here.

非常感谢您邀请我。

Thank you so much for having me.

那么我们来谈谈1Password。

So let's talk about 1Password.

你最近有一个重大公告。

You had a big announcement recently.

公司最近实现了4亿美元的年度经常性收入。

The company recently crossed $400,000,000 in annual recurring revenue.

这比你们两年前公布的2.5亿美元ARR有了显著增长。

That is up from the $250,000,000 in ARR that you guys posted.

我想那已经是两年前的事了。

I think it was a little more than two years ago now.

公司显然正在快速增长。

The company is clearly growing very quickly.

最近的增长主要来自哪里？

Where has the growth been coming from as of late?

正如你在介绍中提到的，我们已经开始专注于帮助企业解决身份和访问安全方面的挑战，目前我们已有18万个企业客户。

As you mentioned in your intro, we've really started to be focused on and really helping solve identity and access security challenges in the enterprise, and so we've now got 180,000 business customers.

虽然我们以消费类应用著称，但我们拥有数百万极其忠诚的个人用户，18万家企业信任我们，帮助他们在不断变化的世界中保护自身安全。随着人工智能的兴起，这些组织面临诸多新挑战，而我们现在正处在一个绝佳的时机，能够利用过去取得成功的经验，帮助客户在拥抱这些技术时获得保护。

While we're known as a consumer application, we have millions of very, very loyal consumer users, 180,000 businesses trust us to help protect them as the world changes, and AI is introducing a lot of new challenges for those organizations, and we're at a wonderful point to be able to leverage what got us here in order to be able to protect our customers as they embrace these technologies going forward.

公司上一次融资是在2022年，对吧？

Now, the company last raised money in 2022, is that right?

是的，没错。

Yes, that's right.

我知道公司正在产生大量的自由现金流。

I know the company is generating a ton of free cash flow.

不过2022年已经是很久以前的事了。

2022 was a long time ago, though.

公司现在正在融资吗？

Is the company raising it all right now?

没有，我们最近刚刚宣布了一项小规模的二级流动性计划，面向一些资深员工和创始人提供部分流动性，同时引入了一些优秀的合作伙伴，协助我们开启下一阶段的发展。

No, we've recently announced a small secondary liquidity activity for some long tenured employees and some founder liquidity, bringing in some great partners to help us on the next leg of the journey.

但正如你所说，公司非常盈利，账上资金充裕，因此我们目前的重点仍然是解决客户面临的挑战，确保我们不辜负他们对我们的信任，并在他们开始采用这些人工智能工具时，将这份信任延续到他们需要我们的每一个地方。

But as you said, the company's very profitable, we've got a lot of money in the bank, so we're really just focused on solving challenges for our customers and making sure that the trust that they've instilled in us, we can bring that trust to where they need us as they start to adopt these artificial intelligence oriented tools.

对。

Right.

谈谈你们公司与浏览器的集成吧。

Talk to me about the company's integration with browsers.

我知道你们与Perplexity合作，将其集成到他们的新Comet浏览器中。

I know you guys have partnered with Perplexity to integrate that into their new Comet browser.

这笔交易是什么样的？

What does this deal look like?

这是否类似于谷歌向苹果支付费用，以成为Safari的默认搜索引擎？

Is this a deal that's sort of similar to the way that Google would pay Apple to be the default search engine on Safari?

你们是Comet浏览器的默认密码管理引擎吗？

Are you the default password engine on Comet?

这类交易究竟是什么样的？

What do those deals actually look like?

不，我们的策略是，我们拥有世界上最受信赖的凭证，超过80%的不良事件都源于凭证泄露。

No, so our strategy here is we have the world's most trusted credential of all, and 80 plus percent of the bad things that happen are from compromised credentials.

我们真正希望成为所有新兴的AI导向浏览器的信任层，无论是无头浏览器——注意，我们已与一家名为Browserbase的无头浏览器公司合作，推出了名为‘安全智能自动填充’的功能；还是作为Perplexity的首发合作伙伴；甚至支持使用OpenAI的Atlas浏览器的客户。

We really want to just be that trust layer for all of the new emerging AI oriented browsers, whether that's the headless browsers, notice we released a capability called Secure Agentic Autofill with a headless browser company called Browserbase, or whether it's with Perplexity as a launch partner, or even supporting our customers that are using the Atlas browser from OpenAI.

因此，我们与所有这些合作伙伴密切协作，确保我们的客户在使用这些工具时，仍能以完全加密的方式访问他们的机密信息，而无需将原始凭证提供给模型或浏览器本身。

And so we've worked with all those parties to make sure that our customers can utilize those tools and still access their secrets in a fully encrypted, way without handing over raw credentials to the models or the browsers themselves.

因此，我们希望成为每一次智能交互中的信任层，无论是在我们提供的开发者工具中——人们正使用IDE构建新应用，或是你看到的那些Vibe编码工具，与Cursor等合作伙伴的合作；还是在浏览器中。

And so we want to be the trust layer inside of every agentic interaction, whether that's through the developer tools we have, folks are building new applications using IDEs, the vibe coding tools that you see out there, partners of the likes of Cursor and others, or in the browsers.

无论浏览器来自何处，客户都信任我们，他们期望我们在这些地方为他们提供这种信任。

Regardless of where the browsers come from, customers trust us, they expect us to be there with that trust for them in these places.

因此，我们只是让它们的访问变得更加便捷。

So it's just making it easy for them to access.

从一开始，我们的目标就是让人们在利用技术的同时，能够轻松地保持安全。

That's what we've been about from the beginning, making it easy for people to stay secure while they leverage technology.

我对浏览器领域很好奇，因为你在这个领域有所涉足，至少通过你的合作伙伴在关注它。

I am curious with respect to browsers, since you're playing in that space a little bit, or at least paying attention to it with your partners and stuff like that.

你如何看待浏览器领域未来的发展？

Where do you see the browser space going?

Chrome 和 Safari 都拥有巨大的市场份额。

Chrome has such tremendous market share as does Safari.

你知道，外面有几条大鱼，现在又出现了这么多 AI 驱动的浏览器。

You know, there there's a couple of big fish out there, now we have this emergence of all these AI powered browsers.

从长远来看，你认为这个领域会变得更加碎片化吗？

Do you see this becoming a much more fragmented landscape in in in the long run here?

你觉得最终会只剩下两个胜出吗？

Do you think it will end up being two that that win out?

我认为这需要一段时间才能明朗，但我认为你会看到一些碎片化现象，不同的使用场景会推动不同的采用模式，这在消费者端和企业端都是如此。

I think it's going take a while to play out, but I think you will see some fragmentation where different use cases drive different adoption models, and that's both on the consumer side and on the business side.

就我们所做的事、如何与浏览器及浏览器扩展合作，以及我们如何将安全性融入其中而言，正如我所说，我们希望在所有地方为我们的客户服务，并与所有合作伙伴合作，而我们也确实如此。

With what what we do and how we play with browsers and our browser extension and the way we bring security to the mix, we want to be, as I said, we want to be everywhere for our customers and partner with all the folks, and we do.

因此，我们的策略就是无论使用场景如何，都提供这一信任层。

And so that'll be our strategy to really just bring that trust layer regardless of the use case.

但我确实认为，在看到一些整合之前，短期内会存在一些碎片化。

But I do think there will be some fragmentation for a while before we see some convergence.

对。

Right.

我想谈谈Anthropic上周发布的这份报告，鉴于你身处网络安全领域。

I want to talk about this report that Anthropic released last week, given that you're in the cybersecurity space.

这份报告提醒大家，Anthropic指出，有一些不良行为者正在利用我们的技术，加速全球范围内的网络安全威胁。

The report, just to remind folks, is Anthropic came out saying, Hey, there are some bad actors out there that are using our technology to basically expedite these cybersecurity threats across the world.

它突显了所有这些AI技术所带来的风险程度。

It basically highlighted the extent to which there are risks that come with all this AI technology.

同时，AI也带来了好处，比如更容易编写解决方案来应对威胁。

Then also there are benefits that you can combat things better too, given that it's easier to code solutions.

你认为AI对网络安全领域是净收益，还是我们所有人都将被这些更容易被任何人编写的威胁所毁灭？

Do you think that AI is a net positive for the cybersecurity landscape, or are we all kind of doomed with these threats that are now easier to code by whoever's doing it?

关于安全，一直以来的一个事实是，坏人通常比好人更专注、资源更充足，因此安全领域一直像是打地鼠游戏，威胁格局不断变化。

Well, one thing that's always been true about security is the bad guys are usually more focused and more well resourced than the good guys, and so security has always been a little bit of a whack a mole as the threat profile continues to change.

因此，当你把AI这样的工具交给那些有强烈动机去利用它的不良行为者时，你无疑面临一场艰难的战斗。

And so you put tools like AI in the hands of bad actors with a lot of incentive to utilize them, you've got an uphill battle, for sure.

供应商将在内部利用人工智能来提升反击能力，但这仍然是善与恶之间持续的较量。

Vendors are going to leverage AI internally to improve the capability to fight back, but again, it's an ongoing battle between the good and the evil.

我认为Anthropic的公告表明，威胁格局已经发生巨大变化，并且未来还将发生显著改变——不仅体现在他们所指出的那种大规模、全自动的网络攻击上，还要考虑到那些不太引人注目的目标：如今，由于人工智能，高度复杂的社交工程攻击可以以极低的成本大规模展开，几乎无需人工干预。

I think that what Anthropix announcement shows is that the threat landscape has really changed and will change pretty dramatically going forward, Not only for something that was such a large scale, fully automated cyber attack, like the one that they pointed to, but think about less high profile targets where now because of AI, very sophisticated social engineering can happen at scale, a very, very low cost, without much human interaction.

因此，我们需要作为一道密码，在这些交易中间保护好凭证。

And so again, we need to be, as one password, in the middle of these transactions where we can secure the credentials.

因为凭证正是大多数恶意行为发生的地方。

Because again, credentials are the place where most of the bad stuff's happening.

所以要让

So making

每个人都认真对待凭证管理，不仅在大型公司和大型系统中如此，而是在整个组织、所有规模的企业中都要做到。

sure that people are taking their credential hygiene seriously at every layer, not just for the largest systems at the largest companies, but all across the organization and for companies of every size.

因为人工智能使得社交工程攻击可以以极其复杂且高效的方式进行，我们必须加以反击。

Because social engineering can happen extraordinarily sophisticated manner very, very effectively because of what AI can do, and so we need to fight back.

我可以问你一个关于网络安全产品开发的问题吗？

Can I ask you a question about product development in cybersecurity?

因为我一直对这个很好奇。

Because it's something I've always been curious about.

我其实不太了解网络安全领域的产品研发过程，主要是因为当我思考它的应对对象时，它主要是在对抗各种威胁。

I don't really know how product development goes in cybersecurity land, mostly because if I think about what it's in response to, what's it protecting against, it's largely against threats.

所以我想问的是，客户研究是怎么进行的？

So I wonder I guess what I'm trying to get at is customer research.

当人们开发这些产品时，你们会去问客户：你们想要什么？

When people develop these products, you go to your customer, you ask them, Well, what do you want?

但在网络安全领域，情况似乎有点不同，因为你们实际上是在对现有的威胁做出反应来开发产品。

And in cybersecurity, it kind of seems like bit of a different scenario because it's actually you're developing that are reactive to the threats that are out there.

因此，我想知道你们如何思考公司新产品的增长？

And so I wonder how you think about growth for your company in terms of new products.

你们是通过让人尝试以不同方式攻击系统，然后加以防护吗？

Are you just getting people to try to hack systems in different ways and protect against that?

还是你们如何预判说，这个产品最终会畅销？

Or how do you have foresight into saying, well, this product will ultimately sell?

是啊，真令人好奇。

Yeah, wonder.

是啊，没错。

Yeah, yeah.

所以，在我们的情况中，我们的安全理念是零知识基础。

So, you know, in our case, we're built on a premise that we have zero knowledge base in approach to security.

因此，如果你是1Password的客户，我们永远无法看到你的凭证。

So your credentials, if you're a 1Password customer, we can never see.

我们会采取极其严格的措施，确保你的凭证只有你自己能访问，坏人也完全无法获取。

And we go through extraordinary lengths to make sure that your credentials are yours, we can't see them, and the bad guys can't get to them as well.

我们以此为核心，构建了各种功能，使其能够以你提到的主动方式发挥作用。

And so we take that element, that core, and we build around capabilities to make it useful in a proactive way, as you mentioned.

如果从广义上来看身份和访问管理这一类别，人们希望获得能帮助他们在日常工作中更高效地完成任务的资源。

So if you think about identity and access management broadly as a category, people want to have access to resources that can help them be more productive in their day.

但如果你在使用过程中增加了过多的障碍，他们就会绕开它。

But to the extent that you add too much friction for them doing that, they will work around it.

因此，我们努力提供一种极其安全的方式来利用您的各种信息。

And so what we do is we try to make that really, really secure way to leverage your things.

同时也让您的日常生活更加便捷，无论是作为消费者，登录孩子的学校门户、为他们注册并输入社会安全号码，还是在预订航班时输入伴侣的TSA号码。

Also, easy way to go about your day, whether you're a consumer, logging your kid into a school portal and signing them up and putting in a social security number or your partner's TSA number as you book a flight.

或者在企业环境中，如何确保正确的人在正确的设备上访问正确的系统，并且所有操作都可衡量、可追踪、必要时可撤销？

Or in a corporate context, how do you make sure that the right people are getting access to the right systems on the right devices and that it's all measurable, trackable, revocable when necessary?

因此，我们采取更主动的视角，思考世界将走向何方？

So we take a more proactive view to say, Where is the world going?

人们在工作和生活中如何使用各种资源？

How are people utilizing resources in their businesses and in their home lives?

我们如何才能让他们在使用这些资源时轻松保持安全？

And how can we make it really easy for them to stay secure when they do that?

这就是我们构建产品系列的思路。

And that's the way that we come about building our product set.

很好。

Great.

大卫，非常感谢你参加我们的节目。

Well, David, I want to thank you for coming on the show.

这是一次很棒的对话，我们期待很快再邀请你回来。

Was a great conversation, and we look forward to having you back on soon.

非常感谢你的到来。

Really appreciate it.

非常感谢你。

Thank Thank you very much.

很高兴见到你。

Great to see you.

几周前，在特斯拉的年度股东大会上，股东们对一项提议感到不满，该提议建议公司投资于埃隆·马斯克的AI公司XAI。

At Tesla's annual meeting a few weeks ago, shareholders weren't thrilled about a proposal that would see the company invest in XAI, Elon Musk's AI company.

我同事西奥·韦特的一篇新报道展示了马斯克如何继续寻找让这些公司合作的方式，我想请他来谈谈这一切。

A new story from my colleague, Theo Wait, shows the ways that Musk is still finding ways for the companies to collaborate, and I want to bring him on to talk all about it.

西奥，欢迎再次回到节目。

Theo, welcome back to the show.

很高兴你来到这里。

It's great to have you here.

能回来真好。

Good to be back.

让我们聊聊股东会、特斯拉和XAI。

Let's talk about the shareholder meeting, about Tesla, about XAI.

谈谈你参加完股东会后的想法吧，你为什么关注这些方面，最终发现了什么。

Tell me a little bit about what your thoughts were coming out of the shareholder meeting, why you focused on what you did and what you ultimately found.

所以，特斯拉股东会上的投票是关于特斯拉是否要对XAI进行传统股权投资。

So the, you know, the the the vote at the Tesla meeting was on Tesla investing in XAI, like, you know, traditional equity investment.

我认为特斯拉有很多其他更需要花钱的地方，而不是投资埃隆自己的公司，很多股东也同意这一点。

And, you know, I I think that Tesla has a lot of stuff they need to spend their money on besides equity investments in Elon's own companies, and a lot of, shareholders agreed with that.

但我觉得，埃隆现在拥有了特斯拉巨额的薪酬方案，这让他对公司的控制力更强，也让他更愿意将特斯拉作为他其他业务的核心。

But, you know, I think that Elon is in a place now where he has this huge compensation package at Tesla that will give him a greater level of control over the company, and that makes him a bit more comfortable making Tesla kind of central to his, other businesses.

当他当场脱口而出特斯拉可能需要建造芯片工厂时，我就在想，这不可能只是为了特斯拉。

And when he kind of blurted out on stage that Tesla will probably have to build a chip fab, you know, that kind of got me thinking, like, there's no way that's only for Tesla.

这肯定和SpaceX或XAI有某种关联。

Like, that that that has to have some kind of SpaceX or XAI, you know, element to it.

通过我的报道，我发现确实如此。

And so through my reporting, I I I found that was the case.

你知道，在他发表那番言论之前，特斯拉似乎已经讨论过内部建造晶圆厂一段时间了，而且我也发现，XAI很可能也会是客户。

You know, it seems like Tesla had kind of talked about building a fab internally for a while before he made that comment, and it's also likely that XAI would would be a customer, I I found.

能跟我讲讲这与公司对Optimus的计划有何关联吗？

Tell me a little bit about about how this all intersects with the company's plans with Optimus.

理想情况下，埃隆希望打造一款超级芯片，能同时用于Optimus——特斯拉正在研发的人形机器人、其车辆，包括Cyber Cab和其他新款特斯拉汽车，以及其数据中心。

So, ideally, Elon wants there to be one kind of super chip that will work in Optimus, the the humanoid robot Tesla's building, that will work in its vehicles, so the the cyber cab and other newer Tesla cars, and in its data centers.

这与传统上芯片开发的方式有所不同，传统上芯片会明确区分为AI训练和推理用途，但这就是他的目标。

And that's kind of a a shift from how, you know, chips have traditionally, you know, been developed and and kind of divided between, like, AI training and inference, but that's what that's what his goal is.

再跟我聊聊关于Optimus的事吧。

And and talk to me a little bit about, you know, with Optimus.

对吧？

Right?

我们谈到了这个机器人最终可能成为什么样子。

We've about what this robot could end up being.

你在报道中提到了一些关于特斯拉对Optimus愿景的精彩细节，比如它将成为未来的亚马逊，负责送货等。

You had some great store details in your story about what the company's vision of Optos could be, something about deliveries and and and, you know, being the future of Amazon.

谈谈这方面的情况。

Talk a little bit about that.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你知道，埃隆在舞台上会谈到，Optimus将能完成人类所能做的每一件事。

So, you know, Elon will will talk on stage about how Optimus is gonna do literally everything that a human is capable of.

因此，报道他希望Optimus具体完成哪些任务，几乎就像是试图从他想让它完成的庞大任务清单中缩小范围。

So it's, you know, reporting on specific, you know, things that that that optimist that he wants optimist to do is is almost like, you know, trying to narrow down this, you know, enormous basket of things he wants it to do.

但没错。

But Right.

我知道，埃隆特别提到的一个特斯拉内部讨论的用例，是让Optimus负责包裹配送。

I understand that, Elon, you know, one use case that's been talked about in particular inside Tesla is, having Optimus work for package deliveries.

所以，比如，机器人开着车到达，拿起一个箱子，走到你家门口，放下箱子，然后回去。

So, like, you know, arriving in a vehicle and picking up a box and walking to your door and setting it down and and going back.

但是，所以，所以

But So so so

机器人并不是在开车。

the it's it's not a the the the robot is not driving the car.

机器人是坐在无人驾驶汽车里面的。

The robot is sitting inside the driverless car.

理论上，机器人应该下车送货，然后回来坐在副驾驶座上。

Theoretically But the robot is supposed to get out and deliver the package, and they come back and sit in the passenger seat.

是的。

Yes.

理论上，汽车会自己驾驶。

Theoretically, the car would drive itself.

好的。

Okay.

然后机器人会自己带着包裹走路。

And then the robot would walk itself with the with the package.

在可能伴随的众多技术问题中，你们的设计团队在机器人从车里出来这个想法上遇到了哪些具体问题？

And and and among the the many technological issues that that might come with, what what are the specific issues that you found the design team is having with the idea of this robot getting out of a car?

当你思考机器人，尤其是人形机器人时，你会意识到我们对自己身体的许多功能都习以为常。

So, you know, thinking about robots and and humanoid robots in general, you just realize all these things about our own bodies that we take for granted.

其中之一就是从车里迈出来的能力，这实际上是一种相当奇怪的动作，因为你需要同时向侧面和向上移动。

And one of those is the ability to step out of a car, which is actually kind of a weird motion if you think about it right because you have to go, like, sideways and up at the same

时间。

time.

据我通过报道了解到，机器人背部和髋部与腿部的连接方式并不适合完成这个动作。

And what apparently, what I what I found out through my reporting is that kind of the the way that the the the back and, like, the hip connect to the leg is not ideal for for doing that.

他们必须在机器人能够顺畅上下车之前，先解决这个设计问题。

And and, basically, they have to figure out the design before before it's gonna be able to, like, seamlessly get in and out.

对。

Right.

实际上有一种方法

There's actually a way

我想你需要很好的腘绳肌柔韧性才能做到这一点。

be you need significant hamstring flexibility, I imagine, to make that work.

没错。

That's right.

而且实际上——我不知道你是否在Instagram上关注金·卡戴珊，但去年金·卡戴珊的一个照片拍摄中就有一个很好的例证，她站在一辆特斯拉赛博出租车旁边，车里坐着一个乐观主义者。

And and there's actually I don't know if you follow Kim Kardashian on Instagram, but there's a great evidence of this in a Kim Kardashian photoshoot from last year where she is standing next to a Tesla Cyber Cab that has an optimist sitting in it.

而且，你知道，他们很乐观，比如，如果你仔细观察照片，你会发现它有点被塞在里面，因为它的一条腿还伸在车外，它的头也，嗯，对。

And, you know, they they optimist, like, you can tell in the in the photoshoot if you look carefully that it's kind of been jammed in there because it has, like, one leg still sticking out of the car, and its head is, like Right.

撞到了车顶。

Hit against the ceiling.

所以这有点，你知道，我的报道不是基于那张照片，但如果你看那张照片，你能明白我在说什么。

And so that that's kind of you you know, I my reporting is not based on that picture, but if you look at the picture, you you can see what I'm talking about.

所以我们可以排除金·卡戴珊是给你提供报道消息的来源，我猜。

So we can rule out Kim Kardashian as as the as the sources that are that are that are giving you the reporting, I guess.

我真希望她能成为我的消息源，但不是现在。

I would love for her to be my source, but not not not right now.

好吧，明白了。

Well so okay.

那么，谈谈更近期的目标吧，如果这就是长期来看的样子，Optimus打算用来做什么？

So talk about the maybe the the the closer term targets that if that's sort of what what this looks like in the long run, what is Optimus trying to be used for?

或者，至少为了证明这个机器人确实有效，它内部会被用来做什么？

Or or what is the idea that it will be used for internally to at least prove out that the robot actually works?

目前，他们专注于在特斯拉的各种工厂和仓库内部部署Optimus。

So right now, they're focused on deploying Optimus internally in in various Tesla factories and warehouses and that kind of thing.

但还有很多工作要做。

And there there's still a lot left to do.

根据我之前的报道，我知道目前只有几百台Optimus机器人存在，他们明年可能想建造数千台。

I I mean, based on my previous reporting, I understand that there are only a few 100 Optimus robots that exist so far, and they wanna build thousands next year probably.

在把任何机器人投放到外界之前，特斯拉内部有大量工作需要数千台机器人来完成。

And there's plenty of stuff to do inside Tesla with thousands of robots before they put any out in the world.

这与One X和Figure等其他人形机器人公司形成了有趣的对比，它们是纯粹的人形机器人公司。

And it's an interesting contrast with, you know, other humanoid robotics companies like One X and Figure that, you know, are solely humanoid robotics companies.

它们并没有拥有大型工厂来部署自己的机器人。

They don't have huge factories that they own to put their own robots in.

而特斯拉则拥有运送零部件的仓库。

Whereas Tesla, you know, they have warehouses that ship parts.

它们当然还有制造设施。

They have, you know, obviously, manufacturing facilities.

在将Optimus投放到他人家中或工厂之前，特斯拉内部有大量用途可以应用它。

Like, there's there's a ton of stuff that they want to use Optimus for internally before they put it in someone's house or someone else's factory.

对。

Right.

在你走之前，最后一个问题是。

Last question before you go.

你在报道中提到过公司在美国奥斯汀及其他城市的无人出租车计划。

One of the things you talked about in the story are the company's cyber cab ambitions in Austin and in cities around The US.

关于自动驾驶出租车本身以及在美国推广这项技术所需的基础设施，我们现在进展到什么程度了？

Where do we stand on that with respect to not the progress of the cyber cab, but also the infrastructure they need around it to be able to roll out this technology around The US?

我认为，制造自动驾驶出租车本身并不是最难的部分。

So I think building the cyber cab itself is not really the hardest part.

埃隆很擅长造车。

Like, Elon is good at building cars.

特斯拉知道如何做到这一点。

Tesla knows how to do that.

真正困难的是自动驾驶软件必须做到完全完美，因为这是一辆没有方向盘的汽车。

It's more the software that the self driving software needs to be completely perfect because this is a car that doesn't have a steering wheel.

所以，理论上你需要能够从不亲自驾驶它。

So you theoretically need to be able to never drive it.

另一方面是监管机构，他们还需要克服大量障碍。

And then the other side is is regulators, and there are a ton of hurdles there that they're gonna have to get through still.

很好。

Great.

谢谢您来参加，感谢您向我们揭示了金·卡戴珊与埃隆的人形机器人野心之间的种种联系。

Well, Theo, thank you for coming on, and thank you for telling us all the ways in which Kim Kardashian connects to Elon's humanoid robot ambitions.

我原本根本想不到这两者之间会有联系，但正因如此，我们才邀请您来为我们解释。

It's it's it's not a connection I would have made, but that's why we have you on to explain it to us.

这位是西奥·韦特，我们《信息》杂志上报道埃隆·马斯克所有动态的记者。

That is Theo Wait, our reporter on all things Elon Musk here at The Information.

谢谢您出席，西奥。

Thanks, Theo, for coming out.

我们非常感谢。

We appreciate it.

谢谢。

Thanks.

好的。

Okay.

上周，Beehive发布了大量产品更新，将该通讯平台拓展至网站构建、播客、数字商务等领域。

Beehive last week made a big slate of product announcements that is pushing the newsletter platform into website building, podcasting, digital commerce, and more.

现在加入我们讨论这些重大公告的是该公司首席执行官泰勒·登克斯。

Joining me now to discuss that big slate of announcements is Tyler Denks, CEO of the company.

泰勒，很高兴你再次回来。

Tyler, it's great to have you back.

欢迎再次做客我们的节目。

Welcome back to the show.

嘿。

Hey.

最近怎么样？

How's it going?

谢谢邀请我。

Thanks for having me.

那么，我们来谈谈你宣布的这些内容吧。

Well, so let's talk about all the things you announced.

你们宣布了很多新东西，还制作了一段非常出色的22分钟主题演讲视频。

There was a lot of announcements that you made, and you made a really nice twenty two minute keynote video.

我觉得所有不同产品的发布都做得非常好。

Thought it was very well done with all of the different product releases.

这让我想起了我们做苹果发布会的方式。

It kinda reminded me of the Apple keynotes, the way that we do them.

我的问题是，泰勒，这场主题演讲时长是二十二分钟。

My question for you is, Tyler, twenty two minutes was the length of the keynote.

你觉得你能多快地为我们一一列出所有功能？

How long, how quickly do you think you can rattle off each and every feature for us?

你能多快做到？

How quickly can you do it?

我的侧边其实有一份清单，所以说实话，我有点作弊，但确实能很快。

I mean, I have I have a list up to to the side of me, so pretty quickly, to be honest, I'm cheating.

好的。

Okay.

好吧。

Alright.

所以，20秒，我可以给你22秒吗？

So 20 so so can I give you twenty two seconds?

我们来看看你能讲多少个？

Can we see how many you can get through?

然后我们再详细讨论它们。

And and then we'll talk about them in detail.

来吧。

Let's do it.

好的。

Okay.

22秒。

Twenty two seconds.

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Alright.

我们倒计时三、二、一，开始。

We're starting the clock in three two one.

开始。

Go.

对。

Right.

首先是数字产品：AI网站构建器、播客集成、网站分析、链接直达个人主页、模板，

Digital products first, AI website builder, podcast integration, website analytics, link in bio, templates,

动态内容。

dynamic content.

我看得到了。

I can see it.

我在作弊。

I I am cheating.

我在作弊。

I am cheating.

我之前一直在做这个。

I was working on this earlier.

我不知道问题会是什么，但我做这个的时候就打开了它。

I didn't know what the questions were gonna be, but I I had this up while I was working on it.

自动化、广告网络、付费订阅。

Automations, ad network, paid subscription.

这些是我们上周推出的十个功能。

Those are the 10 that we launched last week.

正好22秒。

Twenty two seconds on the dot.

就是这样。

There you go.

我喜欢。

I like it.

好的。

Okay.

好吧，让我们深入看看其中一些功能，因为正如你所说，这是一次非常令人兴奋的冬季发布。

Well, let's double click on on some of these because it it it was a really exciting winter release, as you say.

如果让你挑选两个对Beehive最具推动作用的功能，你觉得哪两个在吸引客户方面最值得关注，并且你认为能真正拓展我们的战略？

If you were to pick two that you think are really gonna move the dial for Beehive, which two have you been really focused on in terms of attracting customers and and you really think is gonna expand the strategy?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为我们最初推出的前两个功能中，第一个是数字产品，为我们的用户和创作者提供了另一种变现受众的方式。

I I think the first two that we launch with, which is one, digital products, just another opportunity for our users and creators to monetize their audience.

无论是电子书、模板，还是直接预约时间，我们的许多用户都是某一方面的专家。

So whether that's an ebook, a template, or booking time directly, so a lot of our users are product are, like, subject matter experts in one thing or another.

能够通过辅导或其他课程来变现自己的时间，这一点许多其他工具也能提供。

And to be able to monetize their time, whether it's through coaching or different sessions, That's something that a lot of tools in the ecosystem provide.

但我们认为我们可以做得更好，将其无缝整合到我们已有的网站构建器和通讯产品中。

We think we can do it better and, like, roll it into both the website builder and the newsletter product that we already have.

所以，数字产品，第一个。

So digital products, one.

第二个是AI网站构建器。

And then two would be the AI website builder.

我认为，正如你所看到的，这些氛围编码平台的趋势基本上降低了通过用纯英文提示和借鉴其他网站灵感来快速创建网站的门槛。

I think as you've seen trends in these vibe coding platforms, basically, reduce the friction to be able to create a website quickly with prompting in plain English text and for inspiration of other websites.

进入门槛从未如此之低，我们认为可以打造一个业界领先的AI氛围编码器，以辅助我们的用户。

Just the barriers to entry have never been lower, and we think we can build a best in class AI vibe coder to help supplement our users.

你能谈谈你们的客户研究流程吗？

Can you talk a little bit about your customer research process?

因为我认为，面对如此广泛的产品线，你们一定在不断与客户——创作者们交流。

Because I imagine with with a slate of of products as vast as this, you are constantly talking to your customers, the creators.

实地与这些创作者交流的团队规模有多大？

How big is the team on the ground that is talking to these creators?

你个人每周会进行多少次对话？

How many conversations are you having personally in a week?

我的意思是，你们究竟是如何产生这些想法的？它们来自哪里？

I mean, how do you actually generate these ideas, and where do they come from?

是的。

Yeah.

完全来自我们的客户。

I mean, entirely from our customers.

我今天早些时候写了一些东西，基本上是向我们的客户汇报，我们通过LinkedIn、X或其他社交媒体平台获得反馈循环。

I I wrote something earlier today that I basically report to our customers, and we get the feedback loops whether it's on LinkedIn or X or or different social platforms.

我们为冬季活动推出的所有功能都不是我提出的。

Everything that we launched for the winter event wasn't something I came up with.

我们在七月推出了网站构建器，然后人们开始使用这个新产品，并不断要求更多功能。

It was we launched our website builder back in July, and then people got to launch this new website product and constantly asked for more.

他们希望集成他们的播客。

So they wanted to integrate their podcast.

他们希望销售并预约时间。

They wanted to sell and book time.

他们希望销售数字产品。

They wanted to sell digital products.