“Neolabs”挑战OpenAI，为创始人打造的新 finishing 学校，Circle第三季度财报 | 2025年11月12日

欢迎各位收看Informations TI TV。

Welcome, everyone, to the Informations TI TV.

我叫阿卡什·帕什里特沙。

My name is Akash Pashritsha.

今天是11月12日，星期三。

It is Wednesday, November 12.

今天我们为大家准备了一场精彩的节目。

We have got a great show lined up for you today.

今天早上，Circle公司在公布季度财报后，股价略有下跌。

First up, Circle shares are down a bit this morning after reporting quarterly earnings.

我们将与公司首席财务官讨论这些财报结果。

We'll discuss the results with the company's CFO.

接着，我们会采访我们的AI记者，聊聊近期对所谓新创实验室（neolabs）的投资激增现象——这些初创公司采用不同于OpenAI或Anthropic的方式构建AI模型。

Then we'll talk to our AI reporter about a surge of investment into so called neolabs, startups taking a different approach to building AI models than OpenAI or Anthropic.

我还将采访本节目的朋友萨姆·莱森，他创办了一所面向创业者的礼仪进修学校。

I'm also talking to a friend of the show, Sam Lesson, who started an etiquette finishing school for founders.

我们会为您提供一些有用的建议。

We'll get you some helpful tips there.

最后，我们将深入探讨企业软件公司如何在它们的AI代理开始重叠时相互碰撞。

And we will finish off with a deep dive into the ways in which enterprise software companies are brushing up against each other as their AI agents start to overlap.

这是一场精彩的节目，让我们马上开始。

It is an exciting show, so let's get right on into things.

Circle今天早上公布了财报。

Circle reported earnings this morning.

总收入和储备收入较去年增长了66%，公司还表示可能将在其ARK稳定币区块链网络上推出一种新的原生代币。

Total revenue and reserve income was up 66% compared to last year, and the company indicated it might launch a new token native to its ARK stablecoin blockchain network.

现在加入我们的是Circle的首席财务官杰里米·福克斯·金。

Joining me now is Jeremy Fox Gein, CFO of Circle.

杰里米，很高兴您能做客我们的节目。

Jeremy, it's great to have you on the show.

欢迎来到TI TV。

Welcome to TI TV.

谢谢，阿卡什。

Thank you, Akash.

很高兴来到这里。

It's great to be here.

期待与您交谈。

Looking forward to talking to you.

我们先简单聊聊您这个季度的表现。

So let's talk briefly about the quarter that you had.

然后我想谈谈今天早上您在财报中公布的一些重大消息。

And then I do want to talk about some of the bigger announcements that you made in your earnings this morning.

与去年同期相比，您的美元流通量翻了一番。

You doubled USD circulation compared to this time last year.

与上个季度报告时相比，增长了20%。

It's up 20% compared to last quarter when you reported.

是什么推动了这里的采用？

What is driving the adoption here?

从Circle的角度来看，哪些方面是有效的？

What is working from Circle's end?

哪些方面有效？

What is working?

我们正处于一场全球性宏观趋势的最初阶段，这场趋势就是新型互联网金融体系的构建与增长。

We're at the very beginning of what can best only be described as a global megatrend, which is the building and growth of the new internet financial system.

而这一趋势的基础是区块链。

And that's grounded in blockchains.

正如你所提到的，我们有ARC，这是我们最近推出测试网的底层区块链。

And we have ARC, as you mentioned, our layer one blockchain that we've recently launched into Testnet.

这是数字资产层。

That's the digital asset layer.

我们有USDC，我们的领先监管稳定币，正如你所说，它同比增长了108%，在本季度末达到7370亿美元。

We have USDC, our leading regulated stablecoin, which, as you said, grew a 108% year on year, to $73,700,000,000 at the end of the quarter.

更重要的是，在同一时期，其使用率增长了580%，链上交易量增长至9.6万亿美元。

And importantly, its utility grew 580% during that same time period as on chain transactions grew to 9,600,000,000,000.

此外，还有一层构建在其上的应用层。

And also then there's the application layer that's built on top of that.

在这一层中，我们有Circle支付网络。

And and within that, we have Circle Payments Network.

因此，在所有这些方面，Circle是一家在这一新兴互联网金融系统的每一层都在成长、建设和创新的公司。

So within all of these things, Circle is a company that's growing and building and innovating at every layer of this new Internet financial system.

我们是市场中立的基础设施，越来越多的世界领先企业选择与我们合作并基于我们进行构建。

And we're market neutral infrastructure that increasingly the world's leading companies are choosing to partner with and build upon.

对。

Right.

这让我们处于一个非常非常好的位置。

And that's just putting us in a very, very good position.

但跟我谈谈这种增长具体来自哪里。

But talk to me about where that growth specifically comes from.

这是不是因为USDC在海外获得了更多采用？

Is this getting more adoption of USDC abroad?

Circle 具体采取了哪些举措推动了这种增长？

What specific initiatives has Circle been undertaking that is really driving that growth?

我会先从宏观层面讲起，然后再具体展开。

Well, I'll the macro, and then I'll bring it down a little bit.

要记住的一个根本要点是，这是一种互联网架构。

The the fundamental point to remember is this is Internet architecture.

把它看作是一种基于互联网的通用货币架构。

Think about it as general purpose Internet based architecture for money.

这意味着，货币的各种不同用途都面临着这种技术颠覆，它能让事物运行得更快、成本更低，最终为全球的企业和消费者带来巨大益处。

And that means all of the different use cases for money are ripe for this technology disruption that can make things move quicker, that can make things move cheaper, and that will ultimately bring massive benefits to businesses and consumers all the way over the world.

但更具体地说，数字货币的初始应用场景是在数字资产市场，这些市场对我们的业务仍然非常重要。

But more specifically, right, the bootstrap use case for digital money was in the digital asset markets, and those remain very important to our business.

在这些市场中，我们看到了强劲的增长，并且在现货交易、永续合约交易以及这些市场的整体使用中，我们都在不断抢占市场份额。

And within those markets, we're seeing strong growth, and indeed, we're taking share both in spot trading, both in perps trading, and in the usage within those markets overall.

从数字资产市场转向更传统的货币用途，美元化正呈现出强劲增长，即全球各地的人们都希望持有美元，而互联网正使这一过程变得更加便捷。

Moving away from kind of digital asset markets into more traditional money uses, there's strong growth in dollarization, which is just people all around the world want to hold US dollars, and the Internet is making it easier for them to do that.

对。

Right.

重要的是，跨境支付也在增长。

Importantly, there's growth in cross border payments.

对吧？

Right?

这正是传统金融体系摩擦最高的地方，跨境资金流动更慢、成本更高。

This is where the frictions of the traditional financial system are typically the highest with cross border flows being slower and being more expensive.

如果你是一家有这些业务需求的企业，你会希望投资这些新技术，并希望你的金融机构合作伙伴为你带来这些优势。

And if you're a business operating with those business needs, you'd be looking to invest in these new technologies, and you'd be wanting your financial institution partners to bring these benefits to you.

我们在这一领域也看到了巨大的增长。

We're seeing tremendous growth there as well.

但展望未来，我们面前还有很多其他增长点。

But looking forward, there are many, many other growth vectors ahead of us.

那么，让我们谈谈一些这些增长点。

And so let's talk about some of those growth vectors.

你知道吗，我想听听你的看法，我们看到像Paxos和Anchorage这样的公司推出了稳定币发行即服务的产品和方案。

You know, one thing I wanted to get your perspective on is we've seen companies like Paxos and Anchorage launch stablecoin issuance as a service products and offerings.

我们能期待Circle也推出类似的服务吗？

Can we expect Circle to launch that kind of an offering?

这很有趣。

Well, it's interesting.

我们看到市场上出现了各种各样的竞争，尤其是在美国通过《天才法案》之后，这为美国市场提供了更明确的监管环境。

We're seeing lots and lots of different types of competition kind of emerging in the market, particularly post Genius giving the Genius Act in The United States, which within The US market gives greater regulatory clarity.

然而，我要指出的是，这个市场一直以来都竞争激烈。

I'd note, however, that, you know, this has always been an incredibly competitive market.

市场上有上百种稳定币，包括由许多领先企业联盟推出的，以及许多非常重要的公司过去已经发行的稳定币。

There's like a $100 stablecoins, including ones launched by many consortia of leading companies and many very, you know, very significant companies have launched stablecoins in the past.

但我们发现，这些稳定币的采用率相对较低。

And we see that those have achieved relatively little traction.

因此，我们看到各种形式的竞争正在涌现，但我们仍专注于扩大我们稳定币网络的核心价值，因为稳定币对世界的价值不在于它的存在本身。

So we see lots of different types of kind of competition coming up, but we remain focused on growing the core utility of our stablecoin network because the value to the world of a stablecoin is not in its existence.

对吧？

Right?

在当今世界，任何人发行的新稳定币的边际价值几乎为零，这从竞争格局中可见一斑。

The marginal value of a new stablecoin launched by anyone in today's world is close to zero as evidenced by the competitive structure.

但其价值在于与传统金融体系的互操作性，以及在全球范围内的分发和流动性。

But the value comes from its interoperability with the traditional financial system with distribution with liquidity at scale globally.

而且，我们拥有广泛的合作伙伴关系和互操作性。

And, you know, we have the partnership reaches, we have the interoperability.

你可以在全球主要金融中心以大规模、风险可控的方式铸造和赎回USDC。

You can mint and redeem USDC at scale in a well risk managed manner in major financial market centers worldwide.

所以，近期没有计划推出稳定币发行即服务产品？

So no plans to go with a stablecoin issuance as a service product in the near future?

不，我们不会完全排除这种可能性，但目前不在我们的短期路线图上。

No, we would say never say no, but that's not on our immediate roadmap.

好的。

Okay.

你提到了竞争。

You talked about competition.

我想知道你如何看待维萨和万事达。

I wonder how you think about Visa and Mastercard.

他们已经深度涉足稳定币行业，我不知道dive的过去式是dove还是dove，但他们确实更深地进入了稳定币领域。

They have dove deep I don't know what the past tense of dive is is dove they've they've dove in deeper into the stablecoin industry.

我想知道，对于他们来说，更深入地参与稳定币并真正采用这项技术，对这套基础设施真正发挥作用有多重要。

I wonder how important you think it is to bring for them to weigh deeper into it, into stablecoins and really adopt the technology in order for this infrastructure to really work.

你所看到的是，领先的金融机构——无论是银行、像维萨和万事达这样的支付公司，还是资本市场机构——都在努力将这些新技术的好处带给客户，因为他们都意识到这些好处是切实存在的。

Well, what you're seeing is is leading financial institutions, whether they're banks, payments companies like Visa and Mastercard, capital markets institutions, all are looking to bring the benefits of these new technologies to their customers because they're all seeing that the benefits are real.

因此，这些公司内部出现了大量的活动。

And so that leads to, you know, enormous amounts of activity within those companies.

你提到的那些公司，没错，他们与我们合作，并已基于USDC开发并推出了产品。

And the names you mentioned, right, they partner with us, and they have built products and launched products using and leveraging USDC.

我们看到，整个金融机构领域的这种增长，对世界、对这些机构的客户，最终对我们自己的业务，都是有益的。

So we see this growth across the whole financial institution landscape as only beneficial for the world, beneficial for the customers of those institutions, and ultimately beneficial for our business.

那么从长远来看，你根本不会把Visa和Mastercard视为竞争对手吗？

And so long term, you don't see Visa and Mastercard as competition at all?

嗯，我的意思是，从很多方面来看，这确实是一个高度竞争的环境。

Well, I I mean, in many ways, right, this is a highly competitive landscape.

对吧？

Right?

Visa和Mastercard正在利用他们的产品和服务，帮助客户以最有效的方式在全球范围内转移资金。

Visa and Mastercard are, you know, using their products and services to help their customers move money around the world in the most efficient way possible.

你如何看待Circle的业务？我们是一家基础设施公司。

The way you think about Circle's business, right, we're an infrastructure company.

我们对市场中立有着坚定的承诺。

You know, we have a deep commitment to market neutrality.

我们是一家基础设施公司，你提到的这些金融机构都基于我们、与我们合作，将这些新技术的好处带给他们的客户。

And we're an infrastructure company that all of these financial institutions that you mentioned that they build upon and they partner with to bring the benefits of these new technologies to their customers.

所以基础设施这一块很有趣，因为你们最近刚刚推出了Arc区块链，这是Circle为进一步构建基础设施所做的努力。

So the infrastructure piece is interesting because you also just recently launched the Arc blockchain, which is Circle's bid to further build out that infrastructure.

今天在财报中，你们宣布了可能为Arc区块链发行原生代币的可能性。

And you announced today in the earnings that there could be a possibility that you actually issue a native token to the Arc blockchain.

我想了解从费用角度来看，这将如何运作。

I want to understand how that would work from a fees perspective.

我的意思是，如果Circle确实发行了面向Arc区块链的原生代币——我们应当提醒大家，Arc区块链是Circle试图真正掌控支付通道、并打造原生稳定币基础设施的尝试。

I mean, in a world where Circle did issue a token native to the Arc blockchain, and again, we should remind people, the Arc blockchain is sort of it's it's Circle's attempt to really own the rails and and and create something that is native to stablecoin infrastructure.

但在Circle为这条链发行原生代币的情况下，费用会流向哪里？

But in a world where you issued a token native to that chain, where would the fees go?

这个区块链产生的收入，会归代币持有者所有吗？

Revenue from this blockchain, would that accrue to the token holders?

还是会归Circle的股东所有？

Would it go to Circle shareholders?

你们是怎么看待这个问题的？

How do you think about that?

在设计代币时，存在许多不同的设计选择、经济模型选择和治理结构选择。

There's lots of different design choices and economic design choices and governance design choices that are inherent in designing a token.

我们知道，许多在ARC测试网与我们一同构建和测试的公司，都与我们展开了对话，探讨他们希望看到的内容。

You know, we've had a lot of companies, a lot of the the companies that are building on and testing the ARC testnet along with us, engage us in dialogue about what they would like to see.

因此，现在还太早，无法确定这些具体的设计选择会如何发展。

And so it's too early to say how any of those specific design choices will play out.

但我们想分享的是，我们正在考虑发行代币的可能性，并且正在深入思考所有这些不同的可能性。

But we wanted to share that we were considering the possibility of launching a token, and we're in the middle of thinking through what all of those different possibilities are.

首先，目前尚未做出任何决定。

So one, no decisions have been made yet.

我们正在听取来自合作伙伴、市场参与者以及更广泛生态系统的意见。

We're taking feedback from our kind of our partners and market participants and the broader set of ecosystems.

随着事态发展，我们会持续向市场通报最新进展。

And, you know, we'll keep the market appraised as things move on.

在您离开之前，我还有一个最后的问题。

Last question before you for you, before we let you go.

最近，稳定币领域的并购活动有所升温。

We've seen M and A in the stablecoin sector heat up recently.

Circle打算收购什么？

What is Circle looking to buy?

确实有很多活动。

There's a lot of activity, that's for sure.

我们对并购策略非常明确。

We've been very clear about our M and A strategy.

我们通过并购来加速实现我们的核心战略。

We use M and A to accelerate along our core strategy.

今年，我想我们已经完成了三笔并购交易。

So we've done, I think, three we've closed three m and a deals this year.

我预计我们未来将继续把并购作为战略的重要组成部分。

And I would expect we will do continue to use m and a as an important part of the strategy going forward.

我们已经收购了一些技术知识产权，以加速和拓展我们的核心业务。

We've we've acquired, we've brought in IP so that we can accelerate and expand kind of the core of what we're doing.

我应该指出，我们

I should note that we

你们目前最关注哪些领域？

What pockets are you looking at most closely right now?

我的意思是，我们当然不会忽视任何领域，但现在谈任何尚未发生的事情的计划都为时过早。

I mean, we it would be it would be remiss of us not to look at all pockets, but it is way too early to say any plans for things that have not happened yet.

很好。

Great.

杰里米，感谢你参加我们的节目。

Well, Jeremy, I want to thank you for coming on the show.

这是一个令人着迷的季度，我期待在你们三个月后发布财报时再次邀请你。

It was a fascinating quarter, and I look forward to having you on again when you guys report in three months.

我也很期待。

Look forward to it.

阿卡什，非常感谢你。

Akash, thank you so much.

我们在这个节目中曾讨论过新兴云服务商，它们现在正与大型云服务商正面竞争。

Okay, we've talked on this show about neo clouds, which are now going head to head with big cloud providers.

但昨天，我们发布了一篇关于新兴实验室崛起的文章，这些公司试图采用一些大型AI实验室（如OpenAI和Anthropic）可能忽视的技术和方法来构建AI模型。

But yesterday, we published a story on the rise of neo labs, or a group of companies that are looking to build AI models with techniques and approaches they believe big AI labs like OpenAI and Anthropic may be overlooking.

事实证明，新兴实验室获得了大量资金，投资者已向这些初创公司投入了25亿美元。

It turns out NeoLabs have gotten a ton of funding and investors have poured $2,500,000,000 into these startups.

为了让我们更深入了解这些公司是谁以及为何如此吸引人，我邀请了报道所有AI相关事务的斯特凡妮·帕拉佐洛。

To tell us more about who these companies are and why they're so attractive, I want to bring on Stephanie Palazzolo, who covers all things AI.

斯特凡妮，欢迎再次做客我们的节目。

Stephanie, welcome back to the show.

很高兴见到你。

It's great to see you.

嗨，谢谢邀请我。

Hi, thanks for having me.

那么，我们来谈谈新兴实验室。

So let's talk about Neolabs.

什么是新兴实验室？

What is a Neolab?

我们先来定义一下，然后再讨论趋势。

Let's define it, and then we'll get into the trends.

当然。

Totally.

而且提前道歉，因为我觉得报道AI的有趣之处在于，他们喜欢创造新术语来让人困惑。

And yes, apologies in advance because I feel like the fun thing about covering AI is they love to create new terms to confuse everyone.

但本质上，NeoLabs其实很简单。

But essentially, Neolabs are pretty simple.

这个术语基本上指的是那些不同于OpenAI、Anthropic、谷歌、Meta等这些更成熟实验室的新兴大型AI实验室。

Basically, they that term is kind of referring to this newer group of large AI labs that are not, you know, OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, Meta, some of these more established labs.

这些实验室在过去几年里陆续出现，但最近我们注意到，有大量此类实验室在过去三到六个月里获得了投资者的大量投资。

So these labs have kind of popped up over the last couple of years, but, you know, we've kind of noticed more recently that there's been a flurry of them that have gotten lots of investments from investors, you know, in the last, you know, say, three to six months or so.

这些实验室声称，通过专注于某些研究领域或技术，它们能够超越OpenAI和Anthropic等大型实验室，而这些领域正是大公司忽视的。

And these labs say that they can outmaneuver some of the bigger labs like OpenAI and Anthropic by really focusing on either research areas or certain techniques that they feel like the larger labs are not paying enough attention to.

有趣的是，一些Neo实验室实际上是由研究人员创立的。

And the interesting part here is some of these Neo labs are actually founded by researchers.

我的意思是，我们聊了聊最近出现的研究员创始人这一现象。

I mean, talked to the story about the researcher founder dynamic that is popping up.

给我们讲讲这方面的情况吧。

Tell us a little bit about that.

当然。

Totally.

是的。

Yeah.

在过去几年里，AI行业一直存在一种长期的现象：研究人员离开谷歌、Meta，甚至现在包括OpenAI、Anthropic和xAI这样的老牌实验室，去创办自己的公司。

I mean, has been a very long running dynamic within the AI industry over the past couple of years where you see researchers leaving more established labs like Google, Meta, and now even OpenAI, Anthropic, and xAI to basically start their own thing.

我认为，我们从研究人员、创始人和投资者那里听到了几种不同的原因。

And I think there's a couple of different reasons for that that we've heard from, you know, researchers, founders, and investors.

首先，这些人很多在这些实验室已经待了两三年甚至四年，他们的股票可能已经解禁，他们发现这些公司未来的财务回报空间有限。

Think first, a lot of these folks are coming up on kind of their, you know, two, three, four year mark at these labs and maybe a lot of their stock has kind of vested at this point and they're seeing that there's limited financial upside remaining at these companies.

此外，随着这些公司规模越来越大，它们开始越来越像大型科技公司。

I think additionally, you know, as these companies get larger, they're starting to look more like big tech companies.

因此，他们更加关注商业成功和盈利，而对尝试可能不会成功的实验性方法或研究持更保守的态度。

And so, you know, a focus on commercial success and making profits and maybe less openness to try and like more experimental approaches or research that might not pan out.

因此，一些研究人员感到沮丧，他们想：如果我在 OpenAI、XAI、Meta 这样的地方无法开展我酷炫的实验性研究，为什么不自己创办一个实验室来专注于它呢？

And so some of these researchers are getting frustrated and they're thinking, you know, if I can't do like my cool experimental research here at, you know, OpenAI, XAI, Meta, why not go out and start my own lab to kind of focus on it?

有没有证据表明他们的方法比 OpenAI 或 Anthropic 更好，或者更有潜力？

Is there any evidence that their approach is better or could have more potential than an OpenAI or an Anthropic?

说实话，目前很难判断，因为这些实验室大多还处于非常早期的阶段，很多甚至还没有发布产品，或者只公开提及了寥寥数语来描述他们的方法。

I mean, it's a little bit tough to tell so far just because, again, so many of these labs are so early that, you know, a lot of them haven't even released a product or maybe have, you know, publicly said just a couple sentences about what their approach is.

所以现在很难做出判断。

So think it's very hard to tell right now.

但回顾过去，我们甚至可以说 Anthropic 就是最初的 Neo Lab 之一，因为它的创始人们离开了 OpenAI，而他们显然取得了巨大成功。

But I mean, looking back, we can even say that like Anthropic was one of the original Neo Labs because its founders left OpenAI and they've obviously had a ton of success.

因此，我认为这些创始人希望他们的研究理念最终能够取得成果。

And so I think these founders are hoping that, you know, their research ideas will kind of pan out.

但目前要看到这种情况发生还比较困难，因为 OpenAI 和 Anthropic 似乎遥遥领先，并且显然正在创造数十亿美元的收入。

But right now it's a little tough to see that happening just because OpenAI and Anthropic seem so far ahead and obviously are generating, you know, billions of dollars in revenue.

给我们举几个最近涌现的新兴实验室的例子，以及谁在为它们融资。

Give us a few examples of some of these neo labs that are popping up and who are raising money.

你在你的文章中提到过它们。

You talked about them in your story.

是的。

Yeah.

我们听说过的一个叫Humanzand。

So one that we've heard a lot about is called Humanzand.

这个实验室由一位非常知名的xAI研究员创立。

And so this was founded by a very well known x AI researcher.

抱歉，是一位在强化学习领域做了大量工作的知名xAI研究员，强化学习是一种在人工智能行业广泛应用的令人兴奋的研究技术。

Sorry, very well known xAI researcher who does a lot of work around reinforcement learning, which is a very exciting kind of popular research technique that's been used a lot in the AI industry.

因此，他真正想打造一个专注于他所谓的以人类为中心的人工智能的实验室，这种AI能更好地理解人们的动机和目标，并能处理持续数天、数周、数月甚至数年的长期任务。

And so he really wants to build an AI lab that's focused on more, you know, kind of what he calls human centric AI that understands people's motivations and goals better and is able to kind of work on longer duration tasks that can take, you know, days, weeks, months, years even.

我们还写过其他一些实验室，比如Isara，这是由一位前OpenAI安全研究员创立的另一家人工智能实验室。

There are some other ones that we've written about like Isara, which is another AI lab that's founded by an ex OpenAI safety researcher.

他们希望开发出能够启动数千个代理来处理任务的软件，而不是仅仅让一两个代理来完成。

And so they want to build software that can basically spin up like thousands of agents to work on a task versus maybe just having one or two work on them.

我们最近讨论和写过的最后一个例子是由U.com的首席执行官理查德·索彻创立的新实验室。

And then the last one that we've talked about and wrote about recently is a new lab that's founded by u.com's CEO, Richard Socher.

他希望打造一个专注于自动化AI研究的实验室。

And so he wants to make a lab that's focused on AI that can automate AI research.

因此，这涉及非常广泛的技术。

And so it is a very, I guess, wide range of techniques.

我认为这些大实验室在某种程度上也在研究这些方向，但这些创始人觉得，将100%的精力投入到这些技术上，是更有效利用时间的方式。

And I think these are all things that the big labs are working on to some extent, but I think these founders feel like having a lab that's putting 100 of its energy into some of these techniques is a better use of their time.

这些公司正在从投资者那里筹集资金，有些甚至超过十亿美元，至少也有数亿美元，以推进他们这些不同的想法。

And these companies are raising in some cases over a billion dollars or at least hundreds of millions of dollars from investors to kind of work on these different ideas that they have.

我想我真正困惑的是，也许这跟创始人的心态有关：你必须敢于冒险，独自闯荡，并相信自己能做出非凡的成就。

I guess the thing that I'm just really puzzled by, and maybe this is the founder dynamic, is that you've gotta take a shot and and go it on your own and have confidence you can do something special.

让我感到困惑的是，这些新兴实验室如何认为自己能与目前拥有数十亿美元投资的OpenAI或Anthropic竞争。

The thing that puzzles me is how do these Neolabs think that they are going to compete with an open air or with an anthropic who are in the billions of dollars of investments right now.

你知道，这是一项昂贵的追求。

You know, this is an expensive pursuit.

我想知道，你觉得他们真有机会成功吗？

Guess it's Do you think they're going to stand a chance even?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这是个很好的问题。

I mean, that's a great question.

我认为在写这篇文章时，我确实反复思考过这个问题。

I think it's one that I definitely thought a lot about while I was writing this piece.

我认为当前的一种情况是，我们听说一些投资者与这些创始人交流后发现，这些创始人认为，现在风险资本很容易获得。

I think part of the dynamic that's going on is, you know, we heard from some investors that have spoken to these founders that these founders are kind of thinking, you know, right now VC money is flowing pretty easily.

他们中的许多人实际上认为，一年后，如果AI泡沫真的破裂，市场可能就不会这么开放了。

A lot of them actually think that a year from now, the market might not be so open if there's some chance that the AI bubble might pop.

所以我认为他们的想法是：既然我知道现在市场是开放的，那我还不如现在就筹集几百万，甚至在某些情况下筹集数亿美元，即使我还没有一个完全成熟的计划，而不是冒险等一年，到时候可能就没钱了。

And so I think their idea is like, you know, I might as well raise a couple million or even some cases hundreds of millions of dollars right now, like while I know the market is open, even if I don't really have a fully thought out plan versus risking waiting a year and then not having that money available to me.

但没错，我的意思是，这是一个非常艰难的市场。

But yeah, I mean, it's a very tough market.

而且对我来说，看到一些投资者支持这些公司也很有趣，因为其中一些投资者甚至投资过像OpenAI、Anthropic这样的大型实验室。

And I think for me as well, it's also interesting to see some investors backing these companies because some of these investors have even backed some of the larger labs, like OpenAI, Anthropic.

所以对他们来说，可能是想分散投资风险，确保自己不会过度集中在某一家实验室上。

So maybe for them it's, you know, wanting to kind of diversify their bets and make sure they're not too concentrated in any one lab.

对。

Right.

好吧，Stephanie，我们已经谈到了新云。

Well, Stephanie, we we've talked about the Neo Clouds.

我们还谈到了新实验室。

We've talked about the Neo Labs.

我只能想象新一类的初创公司会是什么样子——我想我们还没聊过的新芯片可能就是其中之一。

I I can only imagine what Neo class of startups is is I I guess Neo chips maybe is the one that we we haven't talked about.

当然，我们知道有大量芯片初创公司正试图与英伟达竞争。

And and we, of course, know that there are tons of chip startups trying to compete with NVIDIA.

下次你再来时，一定要跟我们多讲讲这些。

Next time you come on, have to tell us more about those.

感谢你做客。

Thank you for coming on.

这是我们的AI记者斯蒂芬妮·帕拉佐洛。

That is Stephanie Palazzolo, our AI reporter here at the information.

如果你最近关注过科技推特或TechX，你可能听说过SLO风投的礼仪终结学校。

If you've been on tech Twitter or TechX lately, you may have heard about SLO Ventures etiquette finishing school.

这是一个为创始人举办的项目，上周刚刚举行，旨在教导他们礼仪和行为规范。

It is a program for founders that happened last week, hoping to teach them about etiquette and how to conduct themselves.

它已经引起了Y Combinator圈内的广泛关注，因此我想邀请Slow Ventures的普通合伙人萨姆·莱森。

It's already gotten a lot of attention from the Y Combinator world, and so I wanna bring on Sam Lesson, general partner at Slow Ventures.

萨姆也是创始人兼主编杰西卡·莱森的丈夫。

Sam is also the husband of founder and editor in chief Jessica Lesson.

我想请萨姆来深入聊聊这件事。

Wanna bring on Sam to talk more about it.

萨姆，欢迎再次做客节目。

Sam, welcome back to the show.

很高兴见到你。

It's great to see you.

能上节目总是很棒。

Always great to be on the show.

我们来聊聊礼仪终结学校吧。

So let's talk about etiquette finishing school.

你小时候、青少年时期，或者作为创始人的时候，有接触过这个吗？

Did you grow up with this as a kid, a teenager, a founder?

你是怎么想到这个点子的？

Where did you get the idea for this?

嗯，说实话，答案荒谬地是肯定的。

Well, look, I mean, the answer is hilariously yes.

我小时候短暂地上过一所糟糕的礼仪终结学校。

I did go to a terrible etiquette finishing school as a kid briefly.

但

But the

哦，好吧。

Oh, okay.

不。

No.

这里有一个更广泛的观点，那就是，如果你回顾硅谷的历史和我们曾经去过的地方，那个时代，技术宅穿着邋遢、没有礼貌、不尊重社区或文化，却因为拥有神奇的技术而显得很可爱。

There's a there's a broader point here, which is, you know, if you think about the history of Silicon Valley and the places we've been, it was always cute to be the tech kid showing up with no manners and no etiquette and no respect for a community or culture because you have the magic technology.

人们对此充满了兴奋，并且总是为此找借口。

And people had a lot of, like, excitement for that and excuse of that.

因此，硅谷形成了一种整体氛围，那就是只关注产品。

And so there was a whole vibe of Silicon Valley, which is it's only about the product.

其他一切都无关紧要。

Nothing else matters.

你以何种方式出现并不重要。

It doesn't matter how you show up.

什么都不重要。

It doesn't matter anything.

只要交付技术就行。

Just deliver the technology.

我觉得最近这真的变了，尤其是在人工智能方面。

You know, I think that's really changed recently, especially with AI.

你知道，科技现在正在取代人们的就业。

You know, tech is now taking people's jobs.

人们对此感到担忧。

People are worried about it.

它每天都占据着全世界每一份报纸的头版。

It's the front page of every newspaper in the world constantly.

这是全球性的政策辩论。

It's global policy debates.

而这里巨大的转变是，在我看来，如今再以一种无礼的局外人身份出现在这些社区中，既不讨人喜欢，也无效了。

And the big shift there is it no longer, in my mind, cute or very effective to show up in these communities as kind of an outsider with no respect.

实际上，我认为如果你在寻找合作伙伴，想与政府做生意，或寻求资本，现在必须形成一种全新的文化，那就是：是的，你拥有技术。

I actually think that if you're looking for partners, if you're looking to do business with governments, if you're looking for capital, there's actually like a very new culture that has to permeate, which is, yes, you have the technology.

是的，你带着产品出现。

Yes, you show up with a product.

但我认为，作为创始人，你还必须展现出谦逊、尊重，并证明自己是一个值得他人信赖的人，而这在过去是从未真正实现过的。

But I think you also have to and you know as a founder how to show up with humility, how to show up with respect, how to show up and demonstrate that you're someone that other people can trust in a way that just hasn't been true historically.

所以，简而言之，在礼仪学校里，我们正在讨论这个问题。

And so, look, the long story short in etiquette schools, we're having this discussion.

目前有很多YC创始人，他们的年龄比以往任何时候都更小，而且长期如此，他们缺乏

You have a lot of YC founders right now who are, by the way, younger than they've ever been or been in a long time who don't have

他们现在通常多大？

How how old are they typically right now?

哦，我不确定，他们大概25岁左右。

Oh, I don't They're they're pretty they're 25, I believe.

关于这一点已有大量报道，最近YC的创始人平均年龄确实在下降，尤其是AI领域的创始人。

There's been a lot of reporting on this, how they average out YC recently with with with AI founders actually going down.

对吧？

Right?

所以并不是更有经验的创始人。

So it's it's not more experienced founders.

也不是来自行业的专业人士。

It's not people coming out of industry.

而是更年轻的人。

It's even younger people.

他们缺乏与风险投资人、以及招募合作伙伴等打交道的技能。

And they don't have the skills to show up not only with venture capitalists, but, know, with partners to recruit, etcetera.

我们说，看吧。

We said, look.

YC正在教他们很多东西。

YC is teaching them a lot.

这很好。

That's great.

但他们还有很多其他技能急需速成培训。

But there's a bunch of other skills that they can really use a crash course in.

所以，你看。

And so, you know, look.

我认为这引发了很多争论，因为整个YC的理念，或者说很多低劣的创业观念，都认为唯一重要的是产品市场契合度。

I think it it's caused a lot of debate because the whole YC thing or a lot of the inferior thing is all that matters is, you know, product market fit.

我认为这是一种过时的思维方式。

I think that is an old way of thinking.

我认为产品市场契合度并不是不重要。

I think it's not the product market fit doesn't matter.

它显然很重要，你也应该不断迭代这一点。

It obviously does, and like, you should iterate on that.

但我们在这里，某种程度上建立了一所学校。

But we're here, and we kind of set up a school.

我们会开设更多这样的课程，帮助创始人掌握所有在信任至上的时代真正重要的其他技能。

We'll do more of them to help founders with all the other skills that really do matter in an era where trust is at a premium.

那么，YC 对此怎么看？

And so what does YC think of this?

嗯，加里·谭对此并不怎么热衷，这么说吧。

Well, I Gary Tan hasn't been super excited about it to say the least.

你知道，在他们的 Bookface 平台上，他明确表示不认为人们应该参加，而应该只专注于产品市场契合度。

You know, I think internally on their Bookface platform, he was pretty clear that he don't doesn't think people should attend and should only be focused on product market fit.

我只是不认同这种观点。

It's just not something I agree with.

这没问题。

That's fine.

这并不是对加里或 YC 的不敬。

It's no disrespect for Gary or YC.

我只是想，当我考虑要投资的人时，我认为那些愿意付出努力、愿意学习如何以优雅、谦逊的姿态出现在不同场合，并与合作伙伴建立信任的人更重要——在科技领域，信任从未如此重要。

It's just that do you think that when I think about the people I wanna back, I think it is people who make that effort and are willing to make that effort and learn how to kind of be show up in different spaces, you know, with grace, with humility, and build trust with partners where it's never mattered more for tech.

我得说，我本来还以为你今天会穿西装出现呢。

I I have to say, I I was half expecting you to show up in a suit today.

我以为你会打领带，毕竟话题这么正式。

I thought you're gonna be wearing a tie given the given the whole topic.

我觉得关键是，人们喜欢这种有趣的想法。

I think this is the thing is that people people like, there's this is a fun idea.

显然，这有点不拘一格，甚至有点傻气。

Obviously, it's a little irreverent and a little silly.

你知道，我就喜欢这种东西。

You know I love that stuff.

在2025年，你必须有这种东西才能脱颖而出。

It has to you have to have that stuff to cut through in 2025.

这事儿没法付钱。

There's no way pay.

不过，我确实觉得，什么是礼仪，这整个话题值得探讨。

That said, I do think there's a whole thing of, like, what is etiquette?

礼仪，像我们学校里说的，并不是我们想束缚人们的东西。

Etiquette is not, you know, in our school is not what we're trying to keep people.

它不是，你知道的，如何成为一个精英。

It's not, you know, how to be an elitist.

对吧？

Right?

它也不是要时时刻刻穿着西装出现。

And it's not how to show up wearing a suit all the time.

事实上，我认为这在文化上是相当不敏感的。

In fact, I'd actually argue that's culturally quite insensitive.

它实际上是理解如何察言观色，如何带着谦逊进入那个场合，如何镜像你所进入的文化——无论是金融、咨询、政府还是其他领域，并以让人感到放松、建立信任的方式现身。

What it is is understanding, like, how to read a room, how to enter that room with, you know, humility, how to kind of mirror the the culture you're entering, whether it's banking or consulting or government or whoever it is, and show up on terms that put people at ease and build trust.

对吧？

Right?

所以我认为，穿着休闲装出现在CITV的学生身上很有趣，但这并不是我们教学的重点。

So I actually would argue that showing up at a student at CITV is fun, but not actually the point of what we're teaching.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

那我们来谈谈这个项目的核心内容吧。

So let's get into the brass tacks of the program here.

所以有多少人参加了？你们收费吗？

So how many people showed up, and are you charging for this?

不收费。

No.

当然，我们不会收费。

Of course, we're not charging for this.

拜托了。

Please.

好的。

Okay.

有多少人参加了？

How many people how many people were there?

我不知道。

I don't know.

说实话，那会是多少呢？

I do truth would that be?

也许这就是下一个大的趋势，你知道的，我知道你是搞教育的。

The Maybe this was maybe this is the next big, you know, the I know you're an education guy.

你知道，

You know,

也许这就是你创办的一所学校。

maybe this is a school you're starting.

不。

No.

它不是营利性的。

It not a for profit one.

我们直接开始。

We start directly.

不。

No.

我的意思是，这件事的商业动机很简单，那就是我真的很想结识那些带着出色创意、对市场有全新见解的创始人，同时他们也具备谦逊的视角，真正渴望学习如何在这些场合中表现自己。

I mean, I will say the the business motive for this is simple, which is like, actually really would love to meet founders who are coming in with great ideas that, you know, have new takes on markets, etcetera, but also have the perspective and humility and are actually eager to learn how to show up in spaces.

所以，自私地说，能遇到参加这些活动的人真是太好了。

So, you know, selfishly, it's great to meet the people who show up in these things.

你知道，对于V1，我记得大约有一百人申请了权限。

You know, the for v one, you know, I think we had about a 100 people request access.

我们只容纳了大约五十人。

We only had room for about 50.

所以现场大约有五十人。

So it was about 50 people in the room.

等候名单很长。

There was a pretty long wait list.

我们肯定会举办更多这样的活动。

We'll certainly be doing more of these.

事实上，自从我们举办过之后，来自纽约和特拉维夫的创始人，乃至全球各地的人都主动请求我们为他们举办类似的终结课程。

In fact, since we've done them, we've had requests from founders in New York and Tel Aviv, all over the world to come and do finishing schools for them.

我认为，在许多市场和地方，这种活动甚至更加相关。

And I think there's a lot of markets and places where this is even more relevant.

所以我们还会举办更多这样的活动。

So we'll be doing more of these.

我认为这是一个很好的模式。

I think it's a good template.

而且，像任何一次优秀的V1活动一样，我们学到了很多东西。

And, you know, like any good v one, we learned a lot.

你知道，我们玩得很开心。

You know, we had a lot of fun.

我们当然也做了些有趣的事情，比如品酒、吃鱼子酱、着装打扮，但更重要的是，我们探讨了无论在什么情境下都至关重要的问题，比如作为年轻创始人，你该如何在投资人会议上亮相？

We did, obviously, the the fun things like wine and caviar and dressing and that, but also the really important things that matter no matter what the scenario is, which is, you know, as a young founder, how do you show up at an investor meeting?

你该如何在当前的节日派对上得体地亮相？

How do you show up at a holiday party relevant right now?

你知道，和合作伙伴见面时，你该怎么表现呢？

You know, how do you show up, you know, with partners?

你知道，这类事情真的非常重要，而且我认为是非常可以传授的。

You know, those types of things really, really do matter and I think are very teachable.

感恩节就要到了。

So Thanksgiving is coming up.

假日季节就要来了。

The holiday season is coming up.

对于正在观看的创始人，你有什么建议吗？

For the founders who are watching, what tips do you have?

你该怎么表现呢？

How do you show up?

他们应该注意一些什么

What are some things they should

做些什么呢，嗯，

do to Well,

好的。

okay.

也许吧。

Maybe.

和你的家人一起吗？

With your family?

别管好了。

Forget Okay.

让我

Let me

告诉你一件事。

tell you this.

当你和家人在一起时，关键是不要只谈论你的初创公司。

When you show up with your family, the key is to not talk only about your startup.

除了你的初创公司之外，还要说些有趣的事情。

Have something interesting to say other than your startup.

给你妈妈带份礼物。

Bring a gift for your mom.

明白吗？

Know?

摆好餐桌。

Set the table.

这些不是

These are not

我没错。

I right.

我更想着是节日派对的氛围。

I I was more thinking holiday holiday party vibes.

你知道的？

You know?

跟我聊聊关于那个

Just talk to me a little bit about The