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54321。
54321.
欢迎你，考特尼。
Welcome, Courtney.
谢谢。
Thank you.
感谢邀请我。
Thanks for having me.
首先，你是怎么做到的？现在感觉怎么样？
First of all, how did you do what you did, and how are you right now?
我们这就直接开始了。
We're just jumping right in.
对。
Yeah.
那我们就直接开始吧。
Let's just jump right in.
给那些刚收听的人说一下，Courtney赢得了MOAB 240，那是一场238英里的耐力赛，穿越了摩押。
For people who are just tuning in to, Courtney won the MOAB two forty, which is a 238 mile endurance race through the it's MOAB.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Right.
在犹他州。
In Utah.
沙漠、峡谷、山脉。
Deserts, canyons, mountains.
那你跑完238英里花了多长时间？
And how long did it take you to run 238 miles?
花了不到58个小时。
It took just under fifty eight hours.
那真是太疯狂了。
That is so crazy.
而且你比亚军多跑了20多英里。
And you beat the second place person by more than 20 miles.
对吧？
Right?
差距是多少？
What was the distance?
是的。
Yeah.
我不太确定具体差距。
I'm not sure the distance.
我觉得大概20英里左右。
I think it was around 20 or so.
大约领先了十个小时。
It was about ten hours.
你是怎么做到的？
How did you do that?
我的意思是，你现在多大年纪？
How I mean, this is and you're how old are you?
32岁。
32.
对于这种比赛来说，你算年轻的了。
That's young for these kind of races.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yeah.
确实。
That's true.
因为这种比赛，通常靠的是坚韧和对世界的愤怒才能撑过去。
Because these kind of races, usually, it's like grit and anger at the world that gets you through.
是的。
Yeah.
而且你才32岁。
And you're only 32.
你还年轻，而且你赢的方式，怎么说呢，你参加这种大型比赛的时间其实很短。
You're young, and you you the way you're winning is, like, so and you've only been doing this, like, big time races like this for a short amount of time.
对吧？
Correct?
对。
Yeah.
没错。
That's right.
多久了？
How long?
我跑超级马拉松大概七八年了，但最近几年才开始变得很有竞争力。
I've been running ultramarathons for maybe seven, eight years, but, getting pretty competitive in the past couple years.
哇。
Wow.
那你最开始是怎么开始的？
So how did you start out?
你是说比赛吗？
The race?
你是怎么开始跑步的？
How did you start out running?
你是在高中就开始了吗？
Did you start out in high school?
对。
Yeah.
初中和高中时，我跑越野和径赛，大学时继续耐力运动，还尝试过马拉松，然后很自然地就过渡到了越野跑。
Back in junior high, high school, I ran cross country and track and continued endurance sports through college and tried some marathons, and then it was just like a natural segue into trail racing.
但你击败这些人的方式太不可思议了。
But it's just the way you're beating these people is insane.
你不只是击败他们。
You're not just beating them.
你简直是在打击别人的士气。
You're, like, demoralizing people.
我是说，当你超过第二名的时候，你希望不是这样。
I mean, when you beat the second you you hope not.
哦，你太善良了。
Oh, you're too nice.
当你领先第二名二十个小时或者二十英里的时候，那真的太疯狂了。
When you beat the second place person by twenty hours or 20 miles, that's so crazy.
你说的是十个小时？
Ten hours, you said?
差不多十个小时。
It was about ten hours.
那太不可思议了。
That is insane.
你们俩是同时出发的。
You're you both start at the same time.
各就各位，预备，跑。
Ready, set, go.
你提前十个小时完赛。
You're finishing ten hours ahead.
就是说，你可以去睡个觉，睡八个小时，吃顿好的，坐下来休息一下，然后干干净净地洗个澡，收拾利索了再出现。
Like, you could go go to sleep, get eight hours sleep, have a nice meal, like, sit down, and and then just just show up clean and showered and everything like that.
哦，你现在才完赛？
Oh, you're finishing now?
真可爱。
How cute.
我都睡了一整晚了。
I just slept all night.
这太疯狂了。
I mean, that's crazy.
对。
Yeah.
那挺酷的。
It was it was cool.
我是说，用双脚走238英里，这趟冒险挺酷的。对我来说完全是全新的领域，所以我不知道会怎么样。
I mean, it was a cool adventure to to travel with your feet for 238 miles was I mean, it was brand new territory for me, so I didn't know how it was going to go.
嗯，对所有跑者来说，这基本上都是全新的领域。
Well, it's pretty much brand new territory for all the runners.
对吧？
Right?
这是第一次有240英里，MOAB 240？
This is, like, the first ever two forty, MOAB two forty?
他们中有不少人之前跑过很多200英里的比赛。
Quite a few of them had done a bunch of 200 mile races before.
对。
Yeah.
那就对了。
There you go.
那是你徒步赶路的照片。
That's picture you hoofing it.
徒步赶路。
Hoofing.
太疯狂了。
Crazy.
那到底是怎么回事？
So what is going on?
为什么你比别人强那么多？
Why are you so much better than everybody else?
我
I
觉得那天我状态很好。
think I I had a good day out there.
别开玩笑了。
Get out of here.
你可是过了精彩的三天。
You had a good three days.
所以我觉得你只是太谦虚了。
So I just you're trying to be too nice.
没有。
No.
但是，说真的，客观来讲，你怎么就比别人强那么多呢？
But but but, really, like, objectively, like, how are you so much better than everybody else?
我不确定我是不是在体能上比他们强，但我一直在努力学着在身体变得吃力的时候，去调动我的大脑，因为我觉得大脑能帮我们克服很多困难，而且它非常强大。
I don't I don't know that I'm physically better than any of them, but I, have been really trying to learn how to, like, tap into my brain when it physically becomes hard because I think our brain can help us overcome so much, and it's so powerful.
所以，就是那种意志力战胜一切的感觉。
So, kind of that mind over matter thing.
当身体真的撑不住的时候，就试着切换到心理层面，然后继续坚持下去。
And and when it physically becomes impossible to try and switch gears into, like, have it be a mental thing and and just keep pushing.
那你具体是怎么做的呢？
So what are you doing to do that?
比如，你有没有学过一些冥想的方法？
Like, have you studied some forms of meditation?
或者
Or
没有。
No.
我觉得就是靠经验。
I think just experience.
就是，我一直在参加那些让我身体很难受的比赛，然后我就试着记住，只要我继续坚持，我的大脑就能帮我克服这种身体上的痛苦。
Like, I keep on doing these races that put me in uncomfortable physical states, and and then I I try and keep in mind that, like, my brain can help me overcome this physical pain if I just keep going.
哇。
Wow.
就这么简单？
So that's it?
就是硬撑？
Just just stay tough?
就是不断尝试和犯错。
Trial and error.
对。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
所以基本上你是自学成才，在心理韧性这方面。
So essentially self taught in in terms of, like, your mental fortitude.
算是吧。
Kind of.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得是这样。
I guess.
可能也得归功于我的父母、我的成长环境，还有一路上的教练们。
Probably could give some of that credit to, like, my parents or my upbringing or, you know, coaches I've had along the way.
但最近这几年，我就是不让自己有借口停下来。
But in these in these past couple years, it's been just, like, not letting myself have an excuse to stop.
这对其他人来说太可怕了，因为如果你真的决定开始学冥想什么的，那岂不是要更上一层楼？
Well, that's terrifying to everybody else because if you did decide to start, like, learning meditation or something, what if I could took it to another level?
那会很酷。
That'd be cool.
你冥想吗？
Do you meditate?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我那个？
I that?
我不知道，因为我做不到你那样。
I don't know because I can't do what you do.
所以我可以，嗯，
So I could Well
告诉你。
tell you.
我的意思是，也许就是习惯了那种极度的痛苦和煎熬，然后找到一种你显然知道怎么达到的心态。
I mean, maybe it's just being comfortable with that excruciating agony and pain and just, like, finding a a state of mind that you obviously know how to achieve.
也许没有别的了。
Maybe there's nothing more to it.
也许就是极其努力和坚韧，而你这两样都有。
Maybe it's just incredibly hard work and just grit, which which you obviously have both of those.
我觉得可能就是这样。
I mean, that could be just it.
对。
Yeah.
可能这就是秘诀吧。
Might have the formula.
对。
Yeah.
我是说，很多时候人们就是想得太多了。
I mean, a lot of times people try to overthink things.
对吧？
Right?
嗯。
Mhmm.
比如说，你认识多少人，他们的生活从来没变过，但总是去上自我提升的课，读一堆书，结果什么都没变。
Like, how many people do you know where their life sort of never changes, but they're always, like, doing self help seminars and reading all these books, and fucking nothing changes.
他们还是老样子。
It's just they're just the same person.
他们一直搞砸。
They keep screwing up.
他们总是陷入糟糕的关系。
They keep getting involved in bad relationships.
而且，你知道，有时候可能答案或者事情本身更简单。
And, you know, sometimes maybe it's it's just there's a simpler thing or simpler answer.
对。
Right.
下定决心去做某件事。
Set your mind to something.
付出努力去实现它，然后按计划执行。
Put in the the work to get there, and then just execute the plan.
这是你跑过的最远距离吗？
Now is this the furthest you've ever run?
这是最远的。
That is the furthest.
是的。
Yeah.
之前最远是多少？
What was the previous furthest?
之前最远跑过150英里。
The previous furthest was a 150 miles.
哇。
Wow.
那差别挺大的。
That's a big difference.
是的。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
而且那还是在平坦的跑道上跑的。
And that was just on a flat track.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
所以这次跟我以前跑的很不一样。
So this was really different than what I had done before.
嗯，这就是山地赛跑的有趣之处。
Well, that's the interesting thing about these mountain races.
就是说，这不仅仅关乎你的心血管耐力。
Like, because it's not just in terms of it's not just your cardiovascular endurance.
你还得有肌肉耐力，因为你要爬山。
You have to have muscular endurance because you're climbing.
海拔变化很大。
There's a lot of elevation change.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yeah.
确实不少。
Quite a bit.
不过这样也挺好，因为你可以换着肌肉用，算是种休息。
It's nice, though, because then you get the, like, reprieve of using different muscles.
哦。
Oh.
你徒步用的肌肉可能跟平路跑步或者下坡用的肌肉不一样。
Your hiking muscles might be different than, like, your flat running or your downhill muscles.
所以你可以换着来，换着发力。
So you get to kinda switch it around, switch the effort around.
那为什么这次比赛里大家都用登山杖呢？
And why is everybody in this race using trekking poles?
我注意到了。
I noticed that.
对我来说，它们挺有用的。
For me, they were helpful.
我大概到比赛最后四分之一的时候才开始用。
I didn't use them until the the probably last quarter of the race.
真的吗？
Really?
它们确实很有用，因为那时候我的脚开始有点疼，肌肉在下坡和上坡时反应也没那么快了，用它们可以把一部分力气分散到手臂上。
And they were helpful just as my feet were becoming a little more tender and, my muscles not quite as quick to catch me on the downhills and the uphills just to, like, disperse the effort a little bit to my arms.
杰米，把那个视频调出来，就是那个MOAB 240的预告片，里面有很多人跑过山顶的画面。
Well, Jamie, pull up that video of the what the you know, the sort of preview video of the MOAB two forty when they showed all these people running over the top.
那里有些路段挺危险的。
There's some precarious section.
对。
Yeah.
而且当你已经跑了八九十英里，累得不行的时候，还要面对这些危险的路段。
Like and when you're tired, you've already run, like, eighty, ninety miles, then you hit these crazy precarious sections.
那是什么感觉？
Like, what is that like?
就是别死在那儿。
That's like, don't die.
而且旁边也没人看着你。
And no one's there watching you.
又不是说有人会跟你一起跑，除了其他参赛者。
It's not like anybody's running with you other than other runners.
对吧？
Right?
那可真是一个孤独的死法。
Like, this would be a lonely death.
MOAB两百耐力赛是一场穿越犹他州最壮丽、最具挑战性地形的238英里徒步赛跑，而且景色确实令人惊叹。
MOAB two hundred endurance run is 238 mile foot race through some of Utah's most stunning and challenging terrain, and it really is stunning.
是的。
Yeah.
看看那个。
Look at that.
太美了。
That's beautiful.
真美。
So beautiful.
所以所罗门是这次比赛的赞助商？
And so Solomon is the sponsor of this?
他们是主要赞助商，然后还有一堆次级赞助商。
They're the presenting sponsor, and then there's a bunch of, like, sub sponsors.
我喜欢他们的越野跑鞋。
I love their trail shoes.
看看这一段。
Look at this section.
这太疯狂了。
That is insane.
这一段最让我受不了。
This is the one that drives me nuts.
要是你从边上滑下去，那就完了，兄弟。
It's like if you just stumble off the side, that's a wrap, son.
对。
Yeah.
哇。
Woah.
他们跑下来看起来好轻松啊。
Well and they're making it look, like, so easy to run down.
我敢肯定我当时跑下来的时候可没这么优雅，跌跌撞撞的。
I'm pretty sure I was, like, stumbling my way down that a lot less gracefully.
那为什么其他人不能像你那样跑呢？
Well, how come these guys can't do it the way you do it, though?
感觉有点不对劲。
Like, something's going on.
因为这对其他参赛者来说肯定特别疯狂，你赢的差距那么大。
Because, like, this has gotta be, like, insane to for the other people that were running it that you win by these giant margins.
对。
Yeah.
我也不知道。
I don't know.
我觉得你真的不知道吗？
I think You really don't know?
比如，你的饮食是什么样的？
Like, are you what is your diet like?
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
玉米片，糖果。
Nachos, candy.
玉米片和糖果？
Nachos and candy?
哇。
Wow.
是吗？
Yeah?
我的意思是，就是正常饮食。
I mean, just a normal diet.
我不会刻意限制或者特意去吃什么不一样的东西，就是普通美国人的正常饮食吧。
I don't restrict or, like, try and include anything different than than normal, I guess, the average American.
哇。
Wow.
那你有没有补充维生素，或者吃其他什么？
So do you supplement with vitamins, or do you take anything else?
我会吃复合维生素。
I take a multivitamin.
就这些？
That's it?
对。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
不吃矿物质吗？
No minerals?
什么都没有？肌酸也不吃？
Nothing no creatine?
没有什么特别的补剂？
Nothing crazy?
没有。
No.
真的没有？
No?
真没有。
Nope.
所以基本上就只吃复合维生素，然后靠肚子里的玉米片硬扛？
So just essentially multivitamin and just hoofing it with nachos in your belly?
对。
Yeah.
好。
Yeah.
这也太夸张了。
That's crazy.
我本来以为，像你这样遥遥领先的人，应该会去科罗拉多斯普林斯的奥运训练营，然后被接到那些《洛奇4》里的机器上。
Like, I would expect that someone who is so far ahead of the rest of the pack that you would have some, like you go to Colorado Springs, the Olympic training program, and they get you hooked up to these Rocky four machines.
就像那个俄国人德拉戈一样。
Like, they had Drago, the Russian guy.
你在那儿拼命训练，旁边还放着音乐录影带当背景音乐。
And you're doing all this stuff, and they got, like, a music video soundtrack playing in the background.
你就是最棒的。
You're the best.
对吧？
Right?
我是说，我本来以为会是那样。
I mean, that's what I would think.
但实际上，你就在那儿喝啤酒、吃玉米片。
But meanwhile, you're just drinking beer, eating nachos.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
住在科罗拉多州有帮助吗？
Does it help living in Colorado?
比如，你那里的海拔很高。
Like, you're you're at a good altitude.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yeah.
海拔确实很高。
Great altitude.
我觉得可能挺有帮助的。
I think it probably helps.
其实我就住在丹佛边上，出门就是步道。
I mean, I'm right outside Denver, so there's trails out my door.
所以我每天的跑步就是在科罗拉多山脚下的小路上爬坡。
So I that's my, like, everyday run is on trails climbing around the foothills of Colorado.
所以爬升量挺大的。
So quite a bit of climbing.
我们已经在高海拔了，所以肯定有帮助。
We're already at altitude, so it's gotta it's gotta help.
那你跟我讲讲你的准备过程吧。
So talk me through your preparation.
是什么时候开始的？
So when did it start?
比如，你是什么时候报名参加这场比赛的？
Like, when when did you sign up for this race?
你什么时候决定要参加的？
When did you know that you're gonna do it?
我是五月份报的名，但我在MOAB之前一个月，也就是九月中旬，还报了一个一百英里的比赛。
I signed up in May, but I also was signed up for a 100 mile race a month prior to MOAB in so, like, mid September.
所以我之前的训练主要是为了那个一百英里的比赛。
And so my preparation was mostly for that 100 mile race.
跑完那个一百英里之后，我就想着恢复，确保腿和身体状态都恢复好了，然后又挤出了几周扎实的训练，为MOAB做准备。
And then after the 100 miler, it was just trying to recover, make sure my legs and body felt fresh again, and then got squeezed in a couple more weeks of solid training to get ready for MOAB.
你说一百英里，这真有意思。
It's so funny because you say a 100 miles.
我就觉得，那算什么。
I'm like, that ain't shit.
对。
Yeah.
这也是相对的。
It's also relative.
你懂吧？
You know?
因为对我来说，跑个马拉松就能要了我的命。
Because you I mean, a marathon to me would kill me.
但是你说你跑了238英里，然后100英里听起来就不算什么了。
But, I mean, you saying that you ran 238 miles, and then a 100 mile doesn't sound like much.
是啊。
I know.
小菜一碟。
Child's play.
跑100英里你需要多长时间？
It's How long does it take you to run a 100 miles?
通常大概24小时以内，具体看赛道和爬升情况。
Usually, somewhere around twenty four hours or under depending on the trail and the climbing and stuff.
所以你在准备的时候，主要是为100英里比赛做准备，然后就是恢复。
So when you're getting ready so so you're preparing mostly for the 100 mile race and then sort of recovery.
那100英里比赛是不是基本上让你达到了跑240英里的状态？
And then did the 100 mile race essentially get you in condition for the two forty?
对。
Yeah.
我就是希望它能成为下一场比赛的良好跳板。
That's what I hoped is that it could be a good springboard to the next one.
那这种状态，是心理上的，还是说既有身体上的也有心理上的？
So, is that condition is that a mental thing, or are we talking about a physical thing and a mental thing?
我觉得两者都有。
I think both.
明白。
Mhmm.
对。
Yeah.
身体很重要，所以身体方面也很关键。
Your body I mean, your body is important, so, like, the physical aspect is important as well.
而且，能够让你的双腿承受这些比赛所需的时间和里程，这绝对是身体上练出来的。
And just being able to, like, pound your legs for the the amount of time, the amount of miles that you need to for these races is physically learned for sure.
那你准备100英里赛的时候，每天大概跑多少英里？
So what kind of daily miles were you putting in when you're getting ready for the 100?
我平均每周大概跑100英里。
I would average about a 100 miles per week.
所以我也说不好。
So I don't know.
那其实也不算太夸张。
So that's not even too crazy.
确实不算太夸张。
That's not too crazy.
对。
Right.
因为我朋友卡姆·海恩斯当时想每天跑一个马拉松。
Because my friend Cam Haynes was trying to do a marathon a day.
是的。
Yeah.
他太疯狂了。
He's insane.
那太酷了。
That's so cool.
那是不是太多了？
Is that too much?
我觉得不会。
I mean, no.
他做得挺好的。
He was doing great with it.
所以呢，
So
他比你晚了一天到。
Well, he came in at a day later than you.
你就像，对。
You're like, yeah.
继续保持。
Keep it up.
你知道吗？
You know what?
你应该每天跑个40英里。
You should do, like, 40 miles a day.
继续加油，伙计。
Keep going, buddy.
不。
No.
我觉得这得看个人体质。
I think it depends on people's bodies.
比如，有些人每周跑100英里就算很多了。
Like, some some people, a 100 miles per week is a lot.
对。
Mhmm.
他们的身体承受不了那个强度。
Their bodies can't sustain that.
而对有些人来说，比如那些跑者，他们可以每天跑一个马拉松，而且身体状态还特别好。
And for some, like, campaigns, he can do a marathon a day and and be in great physical form for it.
但他就是个肌肉男，我一直好奇——顺便说一句，我很喜欢他。
But he's a meathead, and I always wonder I love him, by the way.
我说这话是出于尊重。
I say this with all due respect.
我就在想，他是不是练得太猛了。
I wonder if, like, he pushes too hard.
就像，可能有个临界点，过了那个点，收益就开始递减了。
Like, maybe there's, like, a fine line between there's, like, a point of diminishing return perhaps.
对。
Yeah.
你知道，就是练得太狠，有点过度训练了，就算你扛得住，其实少练一点，表现反而更好。
You know, where you you go so hard that you're kind of overtraining, and even though you can sustain it, really, you get better performance out of being, like, pushing less.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我没法评价他的训练方式，但我觉得他对于这些超长距离赛跑也挺新的。
I can't speak to to his training, but, I think he's pretty he's pretty new to all these ultras as well.
对。
Yeah.
我也这么觉得。
I think so.
过去几年里，他去年跑了Bigfoot两百英里赛。
Over the last few years, he did the Bigfoot two hundred last year.
他确实跑了。
He did
就205英里。
it with just 205 miles.
他用了78小时完成。
He did that in seventy eight hours.
实际上，他跑这场比赛比跑205英里那次还快了2小时。
He actually did this race two hours quicker than he did the 205.
这太酷了。
Which is so cool.
太疯狂了。
Crazy.
对。
Yeah.
可能是因为他被你羞辱了吧。
Probably because he's just humiliated by you.
哦，不会吧。
Oh, no.
就是说
It's like
那个女的
this chick
比我快了一天。
beat me by a day.
她比我快了一天。
She beat me by a day.
所以，别管第二名了，你本来可以好好睡上八个小时，在餐厅吃顿好的，喝杯红酒，洗个澡，刷个牙，要是还有脚趾甲的话，还能涂个指甲油。
So, like, forget about the second place person who you could have taken a nice restful eight hour sleep, gotten a fine meal at a restaurant, had a glass of wine, and took a shower and brushed your teeth, painted your toenails if you have any left.
脚趾甲都掉光了吗？
Did they all fall off?
没有。
No.
还有十个呢。
Still got 10.
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真的吗？
Really?
对。
Yeah.
脚趾甲全掉了。
Cams all fall off.
他拍的照片里，脚趾甲都用胶带缠着。
They he takes pictures of them all taped up
就像我的一样。
like mine.
是的。
Yeah.
真恶心。
Disgusting.
所以，当你从这种伤病中恢复的时候，大概要多久才能感觉恢复正常？
So when you when you're recovering from something like this, how long does it take before you feel normal again?
这次之后，我感觉自己像个人了。
After this one, I felt like a human.
我周日晚上结束的，大概到周三就感觉恢复正常了。
So I finished Sunday night, and I felt human by Wednesday, probably.
然后
And
哇。
Wow.
然后周五、周六就出去慢跑了。
Got out for some jogs then, like, Friday, Saturday.
真的吗？
Really?
对。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
我可能就再也不跑步了。
I would be done with jogging forever.
我会说，够了，不跑了。
I'd be like, enough of this.
这太傻了。
This is so stupid.
下次我直接坐车算了。
I'll just take a car next time.
那你说的重新感觉像个人，具体是什么意思呢？
What So, like, when you say you've be felt like a human again, like, what do you mean by that?
对我来说，头几个晚上睡得不太好，感觉一切都处于超负荷状态。
For me, those first couple of nights after I don't sleep very well, I think, like, everything is just on overdrive.
我的腿又酸又难受，而且很难像你想的那样把脑子关掉。
My my legs are throbbing and uncomfortable, and it's hard to, like, turn your brain off as much as you want to.
所以到周三我终于能好好睡一觉了，而且那几天胃口也受影响，即使我营养完全跟不上，食物听起来也不怎么诱人。
So I was finally, like, getting good normal sleep by Wednesday, and it kinda messed with my appetite for a couple days as well where food just, like, wasn't it didn't sound that great even though I was, like, totally depleted of nutrition.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这对你的身体肯定是个很大的冲击。
It's gotta be such a shock for your body.
哦，那当然。
Oh, for sure.
谁知道呢？
Who knows?
那可能对我们不太好。
That's probably not good for us.
但是……
But
就是说，肯定不可能好。
Like, it can't be.
嗯，我说不可能，但也许真的可能。
Well, I say it can't be, but maybe it can be.
对吧？
Right?
因为也许你正在恢复，当你从那种极度劳累中恢复过来时，你的活力会提升。
Because maybe you're recovering, and maybe when you recover from that extreme exertion, your vitality ups.
对。
Right.
因为，你看，有很多人这么说，我读过，如果你跑马拉松，你应该休息六个月。
Because, like, there's all these, like, people that say like, I've read this, that if you take a if you'd run a marathon, you should take six months off.
我读过这个。
I've read that.
我真的读过。
I actually read that.
就像有人建议，跑完马拉松需要六个月来恢复。
Like, someone's recommendation, it takes you six months to recover from marathon.
跑一次马拉松。
From one marathon.
嗯，谁说的？
Well, who?
谁？
Who?
你胖成这样？
You fat so?
对。
Yeah.
你说的是谁啊？
Like, who are you talking about?
谁这么说的？
Who who's saying this?
显然，有人比你厉害多了。
Like, obviously, there's people that can do more than you.
那些把这些东西写下来的人真是傻，因为不是这样的。
Like, people people who are writing this stuff down are silly because no.
因为Cam，如果他每天能跑一个马拉松，显然他不需要休息六个月。
Because Cam, if he can run a marathon a day, obviously, he doesn't need six months off.
对。
Right.
而且他跑完之后我还跟他一起玩过，他完全正常。
And I've hung out with him after he's done this, and he's totally normal.
是的。
Yeah.
看起来他一点问题都没有。
Like, it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with him.
所以那不是真的。
So that's not true.
所以问题就是，我们是在跟谁比？
So the question is like, who are we comparing to?
比如说，我们的基准是谁？
Like, who who's our baseline?
我们的基准是一个几乎不锻炼的人，还是你？
Is our baseline, like, a guy who barely works out, or is our baseline you?
因为这两种情况得出的结果会截然不同。
Because you're gonna get two radically different results.
对。
Right.
那些文章不能全信。
Gotta take those articles with a grain of salt.
是的。
Yeah.
但这就是我跟Kim说的，我说，你怎么知道该训练多少呢？
But that's the thing what I was saying to Kim, I was like, well, how do you know how much to train?
他说，没人知道该为这些训练多少，因为真的就是靠猜。
He goes, no one knows how much to train for this stuff because it's really just guesswork.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这也是它有趣的地方。
Which is part of the cool part.
你知道吗？
You know?
就像超长跑这个谜题有无数个碎片，而解开它们正是这项运动的乐趣所在。
It's like there's a million pieces to the puzzle of ultra running, and and figuring them out is part of the fun of doing this sport.
那你赢了之后感觉怎么样？
Now what has it been like for you after you won?
因为你知道吗，我遇到过很多平时对耐力跑完全不感兴趣的人，他们却经常提起你。
Because you're like, I I've talked to so many people that really have no interest normally in endurance running, and they've brought you up constantly.
你就像个超级明星一样。
Like, you're like a superstar.
听起来，我猜你肯定觉得这很疯狂。
It sounds so I'm I'm sure it sounds crazy to you.
但是，比如我朋友布莱恩·史蒂文斯，他全程都在跟我发短信，来回聊这事儿。
But, like, my friend Brian Stevens, he was texting me the whole way back and forth while this was going on.
然后，你知道，他一直在看你的数据和成绩。
And, you know, he was, like, looking at your numbers and your times.
他说，这太他妈疯狂了。
He's like, this is fucking insane.
他说，这个女人太疯狂了。
Like, this woman is insane.
他说，她是怎么做到的？
Like, how is she doing this?
嗯，谢谢你。
Well, thank you.
他们有个很好的追踪系统。
They had a good tracking system.
大家看着都觉得特别有意思。
That was so fun for people to watch.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
布莱恩也是这么说的。
That's what Brian was saying.
他说，我从来没这么不专心过。
He's like, I've never been less productive.
是啊。
Right.
因为我就是不停地上网刷这个。
Because I'm just going online and checking this thing constantly.
对。
Yeah.
我是说，从那以后，我不得不注册一个推特账号。
I mean, since then, I I had to create a Twitter.
你之前没有任何社交媒体吗？
You didn't have any social media?
有Instagram。
Instagram.
我有个Facebook，但是……
I had a Facebook, but
我觉得这可能就是你成功的原因。
I love Maybe that's how you were successful.
我不知道。
I don't know.
你没有……
You weren't
被那些乱七八糟的东西拖累，你知道，社交媒体上的那些无聊内容会浪费你很多时间。
just bogged down by all the nonsense that people just you know, social media nonsense could eat up a lot of your dick.
对。
Yeah.
嗯，我还在摸索中。
Well, I'm still figuring it out.
所以……
So
别费那个劲了。
Don't don't even bother.
偶尔发点东西，其他一概不理就行。
Just occasionally post things and just ignore everything else.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我就转发一些东西就好。
Just I'll just retweet a few things.
这就对了。
That's the move.
我还在慢慢了解这些。
Just learning about those.
对。
Yeah.
看到什么有趣的就按一下那个转发按钮就行了。
Just press that little retweet button whenever anything's interesting.
这招不错。
That's a good move.
对。
Yeah.
所以，比如说，当你跑完比赛，冲过终点线，回头一看，连个人影都看不到的时候，那是什么感觉？
So, like, when you when you finish the race, like, what is the feeling like when you cross the line and you look back and you don't even see a person?
就是说，你就算拿个望远镜都看不到他们。
Like, you you wouldn't be able to see them with fucking binoculars.
他们就像在地球的另一边。
Like, they're on the other side of the earth.
不过，如果你相信地球是圆的的话。
Like, the curve of the earth, if you believe that, though.
地球的曲率真的有那么远。
The curve of the earth is literally so far.
他们就在曲率的那一边。
Like, they they're beyond the curve.
确实。
That's true.
对吧？
Right?
不是吗？
Isn't it?
20英里？
20 miles?
我觉得你可能连20英里外都看不清。
I would imagine you can't see straight 20 miles.
20英里远的话，我想想看。
I would imagine 20 miles.
你大概能看到一个人的头顶，而且那人可能还得拿个那种很夸张的望远镜。
You might be able to see, like, the top of dude's head, and he's like he'd have to have one of them crazy binos.
就像说，如果
It was like If
你用望远镜扫视的话，说不定能看到他们。
you're glassing, you could probably see them.
但是对。
But Yeah.
如果你在用望远镜看。
If you're glassing.
只是在观望。
Just glassing.
我是说，那是什么感觉？
I mean, what is that feeling like?
感觉太棒了。
It felt amazing.
你知道，我们有那个追踪系统，当我离开最后一个补给站时，还有大概17英里要走，基本上我们已经能确定，只要我不在半路上打个盹，我就能第一个冲过终点线。
You know, with the tracking system that we had, when I left the last aid station, there's, like, 17 miles to go, and it was pretty much we could see that it was certain that I could get to the line first as long as I didn't, like, take a nap out there.
对。
Right.
或者突然身体不行了。
Or become, like, physically incapable.
但你确实可以打个盹。
But you could take a nap.
这就是关键。
That was the thing.
你可以好好睡一觉。
You could take a nice one.
我确实想过。
I Did
你当时想过这个吗？
you think about that?
你刚才说，让我在这儿好好睡一觉。
You just said, let me just take a nice nap here.
哦，睡个五小时的好觉，然后你还能比别人领先五个多小时。
Oh, a nice five hour nap, and you still have, like, five plus hours ahead of everybody.
对。
Yeah.
哦，也许你会，对。
Oh, maybe you'd yeah.
那会很不错。
That would be nice.
而且那感觉很好，因为那时候我是和我丈夫一起跑的，我们可以享受赛道，不用特别紧张地追求效率，只要在赛道上保持高效就行。
Also, it was nice because we could I was running with my husband at that point, and we could enjoy the trail and, like, not be, like, super, anxious about trying to be really efficient, but just trying to be efficient on the course.
但后来我们发现，跑进五十八小时以内是有可能的。
But then we saw that getting under fifty eight hours was possible.
所以我就有点按捺不住了，想再加快一点节奏。
So then I got a little, like, bee in my bonnet about about trying to push the pace a little bit more.
你脑子里进蜜蜂了。
A bee in your bonnet.
我以前从没听过这个说法。
I've never heard that phrase before.
这个说法真有意思。
That's a great phrase.
哦，那你真该来明尼苏达看看。
Oh, you should come to Minnesota.
我们这儿有各种有趣的说法。
We've got all sorts of good phrases.
那你丈夫是跟你跑一样的比赛，还是只是偶尔来凑个热闹？
So does your husband run the same kind of races that you run, or did he just, like, hop in every now and then?
他跑50英里和50公里，也就是31英里。
He runs 50 milers and 50 k, so 31 miles.
但他没参加这场比赛？
But he didn't enter this race?
没有。
No.
他没参加。
He didn't.
所以他只是帮你，比如在特定地点加入你。
So he just kinda helped you along, like, jumped into certain spots.
那他是怎么到那些地点的？
So how does he get to these spots?
你得开车吗？
You have to drive?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以他很轻松。
So he's all relaxed
而且他照片里还拿着星巴克，在238英里的赛道上。嗯。
and kinda got Starbucks in his picture a 238 mile loop Mhmm.
他得开车去这条赛道上的所有地方。
He he had to drive to all of the places on this course.
所以宝贝。
So baby.
他花了一整天在车里，好几天都在车里，而我有一群很棒的朋友在外面当后援。
He spent the day in the car the couple days in the car, and I had a, a fantastic crew of friends out there.
在这种比赛里，某些路段你可以有陪跑员。
And in these races, you can have pacers for certain sections.
所以我可以让一个朋友跟我一起跑，他精力充沛，脑子、眼睛和腿都更清醒，能帮我盯着赛道标记，确保不跑偏。哦。
So I could have a buddy run with me, who was fresh and, like, their brain and their eyes and their legs were, more alert to help me just keep track of the course flags, like staying on course and Oh.
就是诸如此类的事情。
Stuff like that.
那挺有意思的。
That's interesting.
比如，你跑这么长时间，总共是多少小时来着？
Like, when you're doing this for this amount of hours what was the total hours again?
五十。
Fifty
不到五十八小时。
Right under fifty eight.
那你跑这么长时间，能睡多少觉？
So when you're doing it for this amount of hours, how much sleep are you getting?
我睡了二十一分钟。
I slept twenty one minutes.
哇。
Wow.
这也太夸张了吧。
That is so crazy.
那是分开两次小睡。
That was two separate naps.
真的吗？
Really?
对。
Yeah.
所以，大概10分钟加10分钟再加11分钟？
So, like, 10 and a 10 and an 11?
20分钟加1分钟。
20 and a one.
真的吗？
Really?
对。
Yeah.
那一分钟的觉你也算？
The one minute nap you count?
天哪，那感觉太棒了。
Man, it was amazing.
那真是
It was
我睡得最好的一次。
the best sleep I've ever had.
真的吗？
Was it really?
真的。
It really was.
那你为什么一分钟后就起来了呢？
Why'd you why'd you get up, though, after a minute?
我是故意睡二十分钟的。
So I did the twenty minute nap intentionally.
我爬进了我们工作车的后座。
I crawled in the back of our crew car.
后面有个睡袋，我试着好好休息一下，那时候已经是第二个晚上的中间了。
We had a sleeping bag back there, and I, tried to, like, get some good rest after it was, like, middle of the second night.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但我睡得不太好。
And I didn't sleep very well.
就是特别不舒服。
I was just really uncomfortable.
累垮了？
Wrecked?
对。
Yeah.
而且我还是挺兴奋的，所以脑子根本停不下来，虽然已经有点神志不清了。
And I was still, like, pretty amped up, so I couldn't shut my brain off even though it was, like, becoming pretty delirious.
所以我在车里躺了二十分钟后离开了那个补给站，然后和我的一个好朋友兼陪跑员一起回到了赛道上。
So then I left that aid station after laying in the car for twenty minutes, and I was on the trail with one of my good friends and pacers.
我一边跑一边打瞌睡，在赛道上走得歪歪扭扭的。
And I was falling asleep as I was running, like, zigzagging all over the trail.
我眼睛都睁不开了。
I couldn't keep my eyes open.
所以有一次，我弯着腰，脸都快贴到地上了。
So at one point, I was bent over, and I was, like, face planting towards the ground.
然后他说，你就躺下吧。
And he's like, just lay down.
就在这儿，在赛道上打个盹。
Like, take a nap right here, right on the trail.
所以我躺下，已经打呼噜了，就像，一分钟。
So I'm, like, laying down, already snoring as I'm like, one minute.
就一分钟。
Just one minute.
一分钟后他把我叫醒，我从来没这么清醒过。
Wakes me up one minute later, and I was, like, more alert than I've ever been.
然后我们剩下的时间都特别兴奋，因为觉得，哇，一分钟的小睡居然管用。
And then we were super pumped up the rest of the time because we were like, oh, one minute nap.
真的管用。
It worked.
这是我听过最疯狂的事，
That's the craziest thing I've ever heard in
在我这辈子。
my life.
很多人，比如我跟卡姆聊过。
A bunch of people, like, I talked to Cam.
我觉得他也睡了很短的一觉，但就是有种奇怪的方式让你恢复精神。
I think he took a similarly, like, really short nap, and it just, like, rejuvenates you in a weird way.
哇。
Wow.
我之前听说过，如果你真的很累，睡二十分钟会有很大帮助。对。
I've I've heard that before that, like, if you're really tired, a twenty minute nap will make a huge difference Yeah.
如果你能躺下来。
If you could just lie down.
但我一直没当回事。
And I've always, like, ignored that.
我就想，那怎么可能
Like, how is that gonna be
对。
Yeah.
有用呢。
Beneficial.
试试就睡一分钟。
Time, try just one minute.
我太懒了。
I I'm too lazy.
我会一直睡下去的。
I would I would stay asleep.
那当他一分钟后就叫醒你的时候，你是不是觉得，干嘛叫醒我？
So how did like, when he woke you up after one minute, were you like, why'd you wake me up?
没有。
No.
我当时想的是，你怎么让我睡了这么久？
I was like, why'd you let me sleep so long?
我以为至少过了三十分钟。
I thought it had been I thought it had been at least thirty minutes.
然后我就说，哥们，我们得走了。
And I was like, dude, we gotta go.
你怎么让我睡了这么久？
Why'd you let me sleep so long?
他说，哇。
He's like Wow.
那才一分钟。
That was one minute.
整整一分钟。
One whole minute.
准备好了吗？
Ready?
开始。
Go.
然后你就睡死过去了？
And you were just out cold?
睡死过去了。
Out cold.
我都经历快速眼动周期了，还做梦什么的。
I REM cycled, like, dreams and everything.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
你还记得那些梦吗？
Do you remember them?
我不记得了。
I don't.
但我觉得那是我睡得最沉的一次。
But I it was, like, the deepest sleep.
哇。
Wow.
而且很酷的是，我在小路上躺了一分钟，周围黑漆漆的，星星特别漂亮，山坡上还有麋鹿在叫。
And what was cool is as I was laying on the trail for one minute, it was dark and beautiful stars out, and there were elk bugling, like, up on the hillside.
那感觉真不错。
It was cool.
我并没有产生幻觉。
I didn't I didn't hallucinate that.
那是真的。
That was real.
你有没有产生幻觉？
Did you hallucinate at all?
我确实有一些幻觉。
I had some hallucinations.
是的。
Yeah.
你看到了什么？
What what'd you see?
你知道，在夜晚的森林里，一切都好像变成了别的东西。
You know, in the forest at night, everything just, like, becomes something.
所以有很多像脸和动物一样的东西。
So there were tons of, like, faces and animals.
还有一个拉大提琴的人。
There was a guy playing a cello.
有一只豹子躺在吊床上。
There was a leopard hanging out in a hammock.
就像……
It was like
这些幻觉有多清晰？
And how vivid are these?
我是说，非常清晰，我都以为是真的，还朝他们挥手。
I mean, pretty like, where I think they're real, and I'm, like, waving at them.
你在朝吊床上的豹子挥手？
You're waving at the leopard in the hammock?
呃，我没朝它挥手。
Well, I didn't wave to him.
我朝拉大提琴的人挥手。
I waved to the cello player.
真的吗？
Really?
对。
Yeah.
但你跑过去的时候，你知道他不是真的吗？
But did you know he wasn't real as you were running by?
知道。
Yeah.
我是说，现在晚上经历过好几次这种情况后，我通常会看到一些东西。
I mean, now that I've done these quite a few times in the night, I usually see some things.
所以现在就是觉得挺酷的，能意识到这种情况发生，然后试着记住，这样之后可以告诉朋友们。
And so now it's just, like, kinda cool to acknowledge that it's happening and try and remember so I can tell my tell my friends afterwards.
那你有没有哪部分会想，嘿。
So is there any part of you that thinks like, hey.
树林里有个拉大提琴的人，还是只是意识到自己因为跑了58英里或58个小时而有点疯癫？
There's a guy with a cello in the woods, or is there just a recognition that you're freaking out because you're running 58 miles or fifty eight hours?
我觉得就是意识到，有个拉大提琴的人。
I think just a recognition like, guy with cello.
明白了。
Noted.
就像
Like
所以你太专注于自己正在做的事情，以至于即使是最奇怪的事情，比如吊床上的豹子。
So you're just so focused on what you're doing that even the most bizarre thing, like a leopard in a hammock.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，现在这种情况就是会发生。
I mean, there it just happens now.
所以我知道实际上并没有。
So I know there's not actually one.
但是这种情况多久发生一次？我是说，你跑过多少次这种超级马拉松了？
But how often does this take I mean, when how many of these have you done, these ultramarathons?
挺多次的。
Quite a few.
那早期的比赛里就开始出现幻觉了吗？
And did they start the hallucinations start in the early ones?
对。
Yeah.
基本上，我最初跑的那几场一百英里比赛，要通宵跑，总是在夜里，影子什么的就会跟你开玩笑。
Basically, like, my first couple 100 milers where you go through the night, it's always the nighttime where shadows just, like, play tricks on you.
所以我在科罗拉多的山里，看到了长颈鹿，还有会飞的鳗鱼，各种奇怪的东西。
And so I'm, like, in the mountains of Colorado, and there's giraffes and, like, flying eels and all sorts of weird things.
一开始我还挺害怕的，但现在就觉得，行吧。
And at first, I was freaked out about it, but now it's just like, alright.
之后讲起来也是个有趣的故事。
That'll be a a fun story to tell afterwards.
你有没有跟医生或者别人聊过，说，嘿。
Have you talked to a doctor or anyone that say, hey.
当大脑在那种情况下会发生什么？
What happens to the mind when
没有。
No.
我还没去看过。
I haven't.
我特别想知道，到底是什么原因导致你出现这些，嗯，这么强烈的视觉幻觉。
I'd be fascinated to know, like, what is what's happening that's
对。
Right.
就是让你看到这些极端视觉幻觉的原因。
Causing you to have these, like, extreme visual hallucinations.
因为你说它们看起来像真的一样。
Because you so you're you're saying they looked real.
对。
Yeah.
但我觉得其实就是影子，加上大脑太累了，没法正常处理，所以就把它们乱七八糟地拼在一起，拼出个看起来合理的东西。
But I think it's just, like, shadows and your brain is too tired to, like, process, so it just, like, jumbles them together into something that would make sense.
哇。
Wow.
我不知道。
I don't know.
但这并没有吓到你。
But it's not freaking you out.
你只是觉得，好吧。
You're just like, alright.
嘿，大提琴手。
Hey, cello guy.
嘿，兄弟。
Hey, man.
继续摇滚，伙计。
Rock on, dude.
对。
Yeah.
谢谢你的音乐。
Thanks for the tunes.
你能听到他吗？
Could you hear him?
听不到。
No.
听不到？
No?
所以他只是默默地拉大提琴。
So he was just, like, silently playing a cello.
这本身就挺吓人的。
Which is creepy in itself.
哇。
Wow.
这是唯一的幻觉，还是还有其他奇怪的事情？
Is that the only hallucinations, or was there anything else weird?
是在这一次吗？
During this one?
对。
Yeah.
那些算是比较明显的幻觉。
Those were, like, the significant ones.
其他的话，就是很多在树上或石头上看到随机的人脸之类的。
Otherwise, just a lot of, like, random faces on trees or rocks and stuff like that.
那你在跑步的时候，跑了五十多英里或者五十八个小时，一直在往前跑，有没有某个时刻你的身体会……那是什么感觉？
Now as you're running, right, and you're running for 50 whatever miles or fifty eight hours and you're you're constantly moving forward, is there a point in time where your body like like, what does it feel like?
你是持续疼痛，还是已经麻木了？
Do are you, like, in constant pain, or are you just numb to it?
到底会发生什么？
Like, what happens?
就是一阵一阵的。
It's kinda you go in waves.
就像，你会处在一个很好的状态，感觉特别棒，特别有精神，腿也能轻松跑，哪儿都不疼。
Like, you'll, be riding this wave where you're just feeling, like, amazing and really fresh and, like, your legs can cruise pretty well and everything nothing hurts.
你知道吗？
You know?
一切都感觉特别好。
Everything's feeling really good.
然后这个状态最终会过去，又开始疼了，你可能会在那儿哼哼唧唧一会儿。
And then that wave will eventually come crashing down where things are hurting again, and you might be, like, whimpering along for a little bit.
但最棒的是，这种状态，我是说，它们总是来了又走。
But the cool part about these is that those waves, like, I mean, they always come and then they they go.
所以整个比赛你就在这种高低起伏中度过。
So you ride this, like, high and low the whole race.
当状态特别差，感觉特别难受的时候，你只要记住，很快你就会感觉好起来的。
And when it gets really low, when you're feeling awful, you just have to remember that you're going to feel better again soon.
你只需要继续坚持往前走。
You just gotta keep chugging along.
所以你在疼痛中，然后不知怎么的，你感觉好多了，即使你没有停止跑步。
So you're in pain, and then somehow or another, you feel better even though you don't stop running.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这是怎么回事？
How does that work?
我不知道。
I don't know.
就像有个开关被拨动了，或者有时候在低谷期，我会故意多摄入一些卡路里，想着也许这能帮上忙，给身体一些东西去燃烧，让它重新开心起来。
Like, a a switch flips or sometimes I'll, like, intentionally during those lows take more calories in thinking maybe that will help just, like, give my body some something to burn for a while to make it happy again.
跑这么多的时候，你能吃些什么东西呢？
What kind of stuff can you eat while you're running this much?
在这种长度的比赛中，我喝了很多水、佳得乐，还有一种叫Tailwind的粉末，可以加在水里喝。
In one this length, I was doing a lot of, like, water, Gatorade, and then there's this powder you can put in water called Tailwind.
它含有电解质，每瓶200卡路里，所以你能摄入热量。
It has, like, electrolytes and, 200 calories per bottle, so you're getting in calories.
然后，像普通的运动食品，比如蜂蜜华夫饼产品，
And then, like, normal athletic foods, like honey stinger products,
就是
which
像凝胶、鞋之类的。
are like gels and and shoes and stuff.
但那时我在所有补给站吃了大量的奶酪玉米饼。
But then I was eating boatloads of the cheese quesadillas at all the aid stations.
他们提供奶酪玉米饼？
They serve cheese quesadillas?
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
那简直像一条自助餐线。
It was like a whole buffet line.
想吃什么都有？真的吗？
Anything you wanted were Really?
在这些补给站。
At these aid stations.
对。
Yeah.
而且味道还不错？
And it was good?
哦，太棒了。
Oh, it was amazing.
哇。
Wow.
所以你可以吃奶酪玉米饼然后继续跑？
So you could eat cheese quesadillas and just keep running?
对。
Yeah.
所以我会在每个补给站停下来，干掉一个奶酪玉米饼，稍微待一会儿让身体恢复一下，然后继续跑。
So I would stop at each aid station, demolish a cheese quesadilla, like, hang out for just a second to let my body reset, and then keep cruising.
哇。
Wow.
通常我在跑步时不太能吃下真正的食物，但这次感觉太棒了。
Which normally I'm not very good at eating real food during, but this just felt like too much.
那是Cam，拿着培根芝士汉堡。
There's Cam with the bacon cheeseburger.
对。
Yeah.
裹着毯子。
Covered in a blanket.
哦，还有一件事。
Oh, that's another thing.
比如，比赛中有一些地方非常冷。
Like, there's points in the race where it's extremely cold.
对吧？
Right?
确实变得很冷。
It got really cold.
我记得第二天晚上气温降到了九度。
I think we hit nine degrees on the second night.
那你穿的是什么？
And what are you wearing?
几件夹克，比如一件防风夹克和一件雨衣，还有手套、头带和裤子。
A couple jackets, like a windbreaker jacket and a rain jacket and some gloves and, like, a headband, some pants.
没什么特别夸张的。
Nothing, like, absurd.
所以就是因为你一直在动。
So just the fact that you're constantly moving.
你才能保持暖和。
You stay fairly warm.
对。
Yeah.
那件防风衣是防雨的还是防风的那种雨衣？
And the windbreaker is a the the the rain jacket to stop rain or from wind?
就是多穿几层。
Just layers.
我就是想尽量把体温留住。
I just wanted to, like, try and insulate the body heat.
你在吃那种小华夫饼吗，就是那种蜜蜂蜇的？
Are you eating those those little waffle things, those bee stingers?
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我超爱那个。
I love those.
我也是。
Too.
你吃过吗？
You've had them?
吃过。
Yeah.
它们很好吃。
They're great.
它们超棒的。
They're awesome.
所以你就是想尽量吃些高热量的东西，比如糖、奶酪、墨西哥卷饼，什么都行。
So you're just trying to take in, like, the densest stuff, like sugars and cheese and quesadilla, like, just anything.
只要能留在胃里的都行。
Just anything that would stay in.
我不想在徒步路上觉得恶心，然后开始吐。
I didn't wanna get nauseous and and start losing it on the trail.
卡姆说他全程都不用上厕所。
And Cam said he doesn't go to the bathroom the entire time.
就是，他根本不需要。
Like, he doesn't have to.
食物进去就直接被消耗掉了。
Just food just goes in and just just burned.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你也是这样吗？
Is that the case with you too?
用过的浴袍。
Used bathrobe.
问问女性。
Ask women.
对。
Yeah.
不。
No.
来吧。
Bring it.
原因。
Reason.
但他说他大概三天没大便了。
But he said he didn't poop for, like, three days.
我不知道那健不健康，Cam。
I don't know if that's healthy, Cam.
对。
Yeah.
他有很多不健康的问题。
He's got a lot of unhealthy problems.
你去跟他说说。
Talk to him.
他让我听你的。
Made me listen to you.
他根本不听我的。
He doesn't listen to me.
不。
No.
我在外面的时候上了个厕所。
I used the restroom while I was out there.
你是去小便了吗？
Did you have to pee?
对。
Yeah.
那也太奇怪了，我以为你流那么多汗，水分早就从皮肤排掉了。
Well, that's crazy because I would think that you're you're sweating so much that it would just go right through your skin.
对。
Yeah.
我也不太懂这其中的科学原理。
I'm not sure of the science of it.
有一阵子我排尿特别频繁，每跑一英里就要上好几次厕所，我觉得这可能跟摄入的盐分多少有关系。
For a while, I was peeing, like, way too much, like, multiple times per mile, I think it has something to do with the amount of salt that you you're taking in.
那正是我想问的另一个问题。
That was another question I had.
你有没有吃盐片？
Do you do you are you taking salt tablets?
在遇到这个问题之前我没吃，后来就想着得想办法解决，因为那么频繁地去厕所也不是好事。
I wasn't until I was having this this problem, and then it was like, we gotta try and stop this because that's not good either to go as often as that.
是的。
Yeah.
所以后来我就吃了些盐片之类的药丸。
So then I took some salt tabs or whatever pills.
那问题解决了吗？
Did that clear it up?
是的。
Yep.
那这些盐片是什么样的，你知道你实际摄入的盐量是多少毫克吗？
Now what are those like, do you know what milligrams, how much salt you're actually taking in?
不知道。
Nope.
不清楚。
No.
所以
So
它们就是那种胶囊之类的。
They're just like s s caps or something.
嗯。
Mhmm.
就是很普通的，你在任何体育用品店都能买到。
They're just a normal like, you can buy them at any any athletic store.
哦，所以这是
Oh, so this is a
基本上就是一小粒盐，我觉得。
Just a little pill of salt, I think, essentially.
主要是给跑步的人用的。
Mostly for runners, essentially.
我见到的都是跑步的人在用，不过你想要的话也可以试试。
That's all I've seen use them, but you could you could probably have some if you wanted.
所以
So
那这背后的原理是什么呢？
what what's the thought process behind it, though?
原理就是你的身体在流失这些矿物质，然后盐能帮你锁住水分。
The thought process is that your body is pushing through all these minerals, and then the salt helps you retain water is
这是个好主意吗？
a good idea?
是的。
Yeah.
那其他矿物质呢？
And what about other minerals?
你在做这个的时候，需要补充镁或者其他东西吗？
Do you have to take magnesium or anything else while you're doing that?
我不知道。
I didn't know.
而且我也不太清楚我加的那个Tailwind粉到底含有什么成分。
And I don't even really know the the exact contents of that tailwind powder that I was putting in.
我知道它含有大量电解质之类的，应该有帮助，但我不确定它是否包含人们在比赛中需要的其他成分。
I know it has lots of electrolytes and stuff like that that's supposed to help, but I'm not sure if it has some of the other pieces that people need during these.
那在比赛开始前，你会过度补水吗？
Now before the race gets started, do you hyperhydrate?
你会不会，比如，喝很多水来准备？
Are you do you, like, drink a ton of water to get ready?
还是
Or
对。
Yeah.
我试过。
I tried.
我是说，也没有太夸张。
I mean, nothing too crazy.
但是
But
太夸张？
too crazy?
没有。
No.
那比赛前吃什么呢？
What about food before the race?
你是不是就胡吃海塞一顿，然后准备上场？
Do you just eat like a pig and get ready?
不是。
No.
不是？
No?
不是。
No.
就正常吃。
Just normal.
正常吃。
Just normal.
正常的玉米片。
Normal nachos.
就是普通的玉米片，普通的啤酒。
Just normal nachos, normal beer.
那当你准备出发，就像“各就各位，预备，跑”的时候，你心里是什么状态？你知道自己马上要跑238英里，还要把所有人都甩在身后。
And so, like, when you're like, as you're leaving, like, as ready, set, go, what's the state of mind you go into when you know that you're about to run 238 miles and kick everybody's ass?
那很让人兴奋。
It was exciting.
我是说，这是一次大冒险，我对自己有很高的期望，但同时也没有任何期望，因为我不知道结果会怎样。
I mean, it was this big adventure that I had I had high expectations of myself while at the same time having no expectations of myself because I didn't know I didn't know how it was gonna go.
我真的很想享受在户外的感觉，用双脚连续跑上好几天，这真的让我很兴奋。
And I really wanted to just enjoy being out there, like, moving my body with my feet for multiple days was really exciting.
所以一开始我特别激动，头大概50英里，我都是和不同的人一起跑过沙漠的。
So I was pumped at the at the beginning and, spent those first probably 50 miles, like, running with various people through the desert.
两边都是高耸的峡谷岩壁，我就想好好享受这一切，告诉自己这只是个开始。
There's, like, canyon walls just, like, towering on every side, and just trying to enjoy that, like, this is just the beginning.
如果你开始去想还有多远的路要走，你会把自己吓坏的。
If you start to comprehend or think about, like, how far you have to go, you're gonna freak yourself out.
所以，就专注于当下。
So, like, just be right now.
所以你就只是活在当下？
So you just sort of stay in the moment?
那正是我想要做的。
That's what I was trying to do.
对。
Yeah.
就是左脚、右脚、左脚、右脚。
Just left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot.
是的。
Yep.
是的。
Yep.
出发。
Go.
走吧。
Go.
走吧。
Go.
就这样。
That's it.
走吧。
Go.
走吧。
Go.
就这么简单。
Easy as that.
你做这件事的时候，有没有想过要停下来？
Is there ever a moment while you're doing this where you wanna stop?
然后放弃？
And quit?
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