#2054 - 埃隆·马斯克

告诉他们我们会在播客中提到他们的名字。

Tell them we'll mention their name on the podcast.

别告诉他们是我们。对，就说是我们。

Don't tell them it's us. Yeah. Tell them it's us.

管他呢。如果他们真要关门，就告诉他们我们会提到他们的名字。

Fuck it. If they're gonna close, tell them we'll we'll mention their name.

这是什么咸酱？太神秘了。

What is this what is this salty sauce? That's so mysterious.

哦，不。对，别告诉他们是我们。

Oh, no. Right. Don't tell them it's us.

明智的决定。没错。

Good call. Yeah.

别告诉他们是我们。确保你别从任何肝脏那里买。

Don't tell them it's us. Make sure you don't buy it from any livers.

那咸咸的、带酸味的物质是什么？别买

What what is the salty, tangy substance? Don't buy

东奥斯汀的货。别别从还戴口罩的人那里买。

it from East Austin. Don't don't buy it from anyone who still wears a mask.

这种人可不少

There's a lot of them

在外面。

out there.

有很多

There's a lot of

他们在外面。他们还戴着口罩。真疯狂。

them out there. They're still masked up. It's wild.

是啊。偶尔会看到有人很偏执。我就想，在大街上？

Yeah. Once in a while, see someone paranoid. I'm like On the street?

对。前几天我在街上看到一个家伙戴着口罩走来走去。我就想，好吧，老兄。你看起来大概28岁左右。

Yeah. I saw a guy on the street the other day just walking around with a mask on. I'm like, okay, buddy. You look like you're about 28 years old. Yeah.

我觉得你会没事的。

I think you're gonna be okay.

会没事的。

Be okay.

是啊。你戴着那该死的口罩呼吸同样的空气，所有细菌都吐在上面。对，它们都附着在那块布上了。

Yeah. You're probably not gonna be okay breathing that fucking same air in that mask and all the bacteria are spitting out. Yeah. It's attaching to that cloth.

没错。口罩不是什么神奇的健康护盾。我是说，有些时候戴口罩是有必要的，比如外科医生给你做手术时，你肯定不希望医生往你伤口上吐口水吧？当然。

Yeah. It it it's masks are not like some magic health shield. I mean, there are times where, you know, masks are warranted, like, if a surgeon is operating on you or whatever, then you don't want the surgeon spitting in your wound. You know? Of course.

但大多数时候，口罩对你没好处。而且如果你

But most of the time, a mask is not good for you. And If you

如果能从口罩中呼出气体，意味着你也在吸入。那么它在过滤多少？具体来说，它到底在...

can breathe out of it, that means you can you're you're breathing in. That means you're also exhaling. So, like, how much is it filtering? Like, what is it what

这就像...我想说，口罩有点像战场上的盾牌，它能帮你挡掉一些箭矢之类的，但并不能让你刀枪不入。我们只是在讨论射箭之类的情况。所以，确实有些场合需要戴口罩，但大多数时候反而适得其反。

it It's like a I I'd say, like, a mask is much like a sort of a shield in battle in that, you know, it'll help protect you a little bit from arrows and stuff, but it's not doesn't make you arrow proof. We're just talking about, you know, shooting arrows and stuff. There's So, I mean, there are times when when masks are warranted, but most of the time, it's it's actually counterproductive.

旧推特的问题之一就是那些宣传...

Well, that was one of the things about the old Twitter was the propaganda and

是啊。

Yeah.

盲目遵从CDC的说法，却排斥像斯坦福的杰伊·巴塔查里亚这样的真正科学家。他们甚至封禁了亚历克斯·贝伦森，这太疯狂了。

The adherence to whatever the CDC was saying and the dismissing of legitimate scientists, guys like Jay Bhattachar from Stanford and legit guys. Yes. And they were suppressing them and even banning them. They banned Alex Berenson. I mean, this is it was wild.

他们封禁亚历克斯，本质上只是因为他解读了同行评审的论文。

They banned Alex for essentially reading peer reviewed papers.

没错。整个推特基本上就是政府的附属机构。

Yeah. No. I mean, all all Twitter was basically an arm of the government.

对。当时震惊吗？推特文件曝光时，让谢伦伯格和马特·泰比他们进去调查，结果马特·泰比就被查税了...

Yeah. So Was that shocking? Like, what was that like? Because that to me, that was the most bizarre, was the Twitter files. When you let Schellenberger and Matt Taibi and all those guys get in the and the the response were Matt Taibi gets audited.

这简直太明目张胆了，毫不掩饰。

I mean, which is just wild. I mean, it's just so blatant and so in your face.

是啊，很诡异。杰克其实并不完全知情，但公众根本不知道推特在多大程度上就是政府的工具。

Yeah. It's weird. No. I mean, the yeah. The the degree which and and by by the way, Jack didn't really know know this, but the degree to which Twitter was simply an arm of the government was not well understood by the public.

而且它那里根本没有所谓的官方立场，我的意思是，它基本上就像《真理报》一样。你知道的，那是一份国家出版物。可以这样理解旧推特——它就是个国家喉舌。

And it it was there was no it was whatever the official go I mean, it was like Pravda, basically. You know, it's a state publication. It's the way to think of old Twitter. It was a state publication.

从他们的角度辩解，是否因为他们是进步自由派？他们怀有正确意图，重要的是让他们继续掌权。进步自由派必须保持在政府和权力体系中，因为这是他们的...

And was the justification from their perspective that they are progressive liberals. They have the right intentions. It's important that they stay in power. The progressive liberals stay in government and power because this is the this is their

基本上任何观点都会遭到压制，我甚至要说，连中间路线的观点也不例外。当然，任何偏右的——我不是指极右翼，只是温和右派——像共和党人遭受压制的频率是民主党人的十倍。这是因为旧推特从根本上被极左翼控制着。

There there was there was basically oppression of any any views that would even, I would say, be considered middle of the road. But, certainly, anything on the the right I'm not talking about, like, like, far right. I'm just talking mildly right. The people like, Republicans were suppressed at 10 times the rate of Democrats. Now that's because, old Twitter was fundamentally controlled by the far left.

它完全被极左翼掌控。所以我说旧金山、伯克利代表了一种小众意识形态。很难说还有哪里比旧金山-伯克利更极左了。

It was, like, completely controlled by the the the far left. And that that's why I say, like, the the like, San Francisco, Berkeley is a niche ideology. It's hard to say, like, is there a place that's more far left than San Francisco, Berkeley?

也许波特兰吧。

Maybe Portland.

也许波特兰。但差不多就在那儿了。对，这两个地方算是美国最极左的据点。没错。

Maybe Portland. But it's like it's a Right there. Yeah. Like, it's those two places are the the most far left places in America. Yes.

所以从他们的立场看，连温和派都算右翼。如果你内化了极左立场，任何非极左的东西在你眼里都是错误的。

So from their standpoint, everything is to the right, including moderates. Right. Right. So but now if if if but if if you internalize a far left position, everything seems wrong to you that if that is not far left. Right.

所以他们天然会压制任何与自己观点相左的声音。这就是为什么我说它是个偶然形成的极左信息武器——因为硅谷聚集了全球最聪明的工程师和技术专家，他们创造出的信息武器恰好被无法自主研发武器的极左翼所利用，只因他们与技术人员同处一地。

And so they naturally oppressed any anything that didn't agree with their views. That's why I say that it was an accidental far left information weapon. So it's it's because it's like Silicon Valley attracts the smartest engineers, the smartest sort of technologists and programmers from around the world. They created an information weapon that was then harnessed by the far left who could not themselves create the weapon, but happened to be collocated where the technologists were.

恰好与掌握这项工具的人在政治上立场一致。

It happened to be aligned politically with the people that possessed it.

技术人员总体偏温和，或许温和偏左，但绝非极左。所以我说旧金山-伯克利——这种极左甚至蔓延不到南旧金山或帕罗奥图。要说全美最极左的地方，旧金山-伯克利或许和波特兰有得一争，但我认为前者更甚。实际上我们谈论的不过是个半径十英里的区域。

The technologists generally are moderate, maybe moderate left, but they're they're not they're they're they're not far left. That's why I say San Francisco, Berkeley, it's it's it doesn't even extend to South San Francisco or even to Palo Alto. So so SF Berkeley is the most far left. Perhaps, you know, in a competition with Portland, but I'd say SF Berkeley is more far left even than Portland. But, like, literally in America, it's we're talking about an area that's maybe a 10 mile radius.

通常情况下，极左意识形态的负面影响原本会局限在10英里半径的地理范围内。那范围很小，所以这种意识形态的任何不良影响在正常情况下都会受到地理限制，过去也确实如此。但当你拥有一个技术上的扩音器——即推特和整个社交媒体——突然间，极左分子就被递上了一个面向全球的扩音器。这是一种他们自己无法创造、却因偶然与技术开发者同处一地而获得的极其强大的技术武器。

And so the the normally, the effects the negative effects of a far left ideology that is would be geographically limited to a 10 mile radius. That's like not it's small like the so so any any bad effects of that ideology would be geographically constrained under normal circumstances and have been in the past. But when you have basically a techno technological megaphone, which which was Twitter and and social media in general, suddenly, the the far left are handed a megaphone to Earth. A a an incredibly powerful technology weapon that they themselves could not create, but they happen to be collocated with the technologists who created it by accident.

令人震惊的是，竟然没有更多人意识到这有多危险？

Is it shocking that more people don't understand how dangerous that is?

我认为有些人明白。确实有人明白。从一些前推特员工的立场来看，他们会觉得这是明显右倾。这个说法没错。

I think some people understand. Some people do. Some people understand. So, I mean, from the standpoint of of some of the people who used to be at Twitter, the people were like, well, it's a a big shift to the right. That is correct.

之所以说是右倾，是因为站在极左立场看，所有事物都是右倾的。但事实上，有多少极左人士真正被现在的推特（X）封禁过？零。所以平台只是回归中立，但在极左视角下就成了右转。

It is a shift to the right because everything is to the right if you're far left. Everything is to the right. But it's but how many far left people have actually been suspended or or banned from from Twitter now x? Zero. So it's really just moved to the center, but from the perspective of the far left, it is it's moved to the right.

这就像一切都是相对的。

It's like everything's relative.

内容审核的差异

The the the difference in moderation

应该说，这种辐射哲学不仅影响了美国，还波及了全球各地。没错。

I should say it's I propagated that fallout philosophy not just to America, but to everywhere on Earth. Right. Yeah.

在其他国家也实施了同等程度的压制吗？

Yeah. And with the same level of suppression in other countries as well?

是的。

Yes.

但塔利班却在推特上活跃着，对吧？

But the Taliban is on Twitter. Right?

就像，我总忍不住想，嘿，塔利班先生，给我讲个香蕉的故事。嘿，塔利班先生。

Like, I always think of, like, hey, mister Taliban, telling me a banana. Hey, mister Taliban.

我是说，推特上确实有些人

I mean, there but there's definitely some people on Twitter that are

天亮了。我想走了。对。对。所以关键在于，从我的立场看，X（原推特）应该代表人类某种集体意识。

Daylight coming. I wanna go. Yeah. Yeah. So the the point the point is I that I from my standpoint, that is that x f k Twitter should represent the sort of collective consciousness of humanity.

这意味着平台上会出现你不喜欢或反对的观点。但这就是人性。那么你要排斥它们吗？当然，如果有人违法——比如公开煽动谋杀——账号就会被封禁。

So now that that means that they're gonna be views on there that you don't like or disagree with. But that's humanity. So are you gonna exclude them or or not? Now I mean, if if somebody, you know, breaks the law, then then the the account is suspended. I mean, if they actively advocate murder, then the account is suspended.

我们确实有类似'联合国例外原则'：比如允许伊朗最高领袖（他可能希望以色列不存在）进入纽约联合国大楼。事实上尽管伊朗受严厉制裁，其官员仍常去联合国。就像联合国存在有其价值一样，我认为让各国领导人出现在社交平台也有价值——尽管我们可以不认同联合国，也不该对全球政府卑躬屈膝。

We we do have what we call, like, the kind of United Nations exclusion rule, which is that you can have, say, the Ayatollah who, you know, would would prefer that Israel didn't exist, for example. And but he's allowed to go to the UN Building in New York. And in fact, generally, officials from Iran do in fact go to the UN Building in New York even though they are a heavily sanctioned country. So so I think that there's there's merit to having, just like there's merit there's some merit to the UN. One can disagree with UN, and I think one we shouldn't have a wolf government that we bow down to.

但让文明承担这种风险是值得的。你确实需要各国领导人在社交媒体发声，哪怕他们说的内容很糟糕。

But, in fact, that's risky for civilization. But I think you do wanna have the leaders of countries represented on social media. You wanna hear what they have to say even if you what they say is terrible.

这适用于所有领域。你刚才说的很重要——这就是人性。最大的社交平台理应反映人性，让我们看清现实。如果因为意识形态过滤气泡而扭曲人们对他人需求的认知...

I think that is true across the board. And I think one of the things you just said that's very important is that's humanity. And it's Yeah. I think it's important that a a social media platform, especially the biggest one, represents humanity so we understand what we're talking about. Because if we have this distorted idea of what people think and want and need because everyone only exists inside this ideological bubble and anything outside of that bubble gets censored

没错。

Yes.

那会彻底改变整个国家的舆论基调，改变人们对是非的认知，影响人们的感受。

Then that changes literally changes the tone of the entire country. Yeah. Changes what people think is okay and not okay, makes people feel differently.

是的。

Yes.

这不是人性。这是不同的。这是一种非常强制的人为版本。

It's not humanity. It's different. It's a a very forced version of humanity.

是的。完全正确。所以，我的意思是，言论自由的整个意义在于，只有当允许你不喜欢的人说你不喜欢的话时，第一修正案才有意义。

Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. So, I mean, the the whole point of free speech, the only free speech is only relevant. The First Amendment is only relevant, if you allow people you don't like to say things you don't like.

因为如果你喜欢那些话，你就不需要第一修正案。所以言论自由的核心在于，坦率地说，即使是你讨厌的人说你讨厌的话，因为如果他们能说——如果你讨厌的人能说你讨厌的话，那就意味着他们不能阻止你说你想说的话。这非常非常重要。

Because if you like it, you don't need a First Amendment. So the whole point of free speech is that, frankly, even people you hate say things you hate because if they can say if people you hate can say things that that you hate, that means that they can't stop you from saying what you wanna say Right. Which is very, very important.

对。但推特的问题在于情况并非如此。正确的是，那些你讨厌的人无法发声。

Right. But the problem with Twitter is it was not the case. It was Correct. The op it was people that you hate couldn't say.

任何他们不喜欢的人，他们都会审查。是的。或者所谓的‘降权’。

Anyone they didn't like, they censored. Yeah. Or that what what's called de amplify.

不。不仅仅是降权，而是在政府的授意下压制真实新闻，这非常奇怪。是的。所以他们很清楚某些内容是准确的，但仍然压制它，因为政府希望他们这么做。

No. Well, not just de amplify, but under the behest of the government would suppress real news, which was very bizarre. Yes. So they were very aware of something being accurate, and they still suppressed it because the government wanted them to suppress it.

在我看来，多个政府机构已经严重违反了第一修正案，应该为此承担后果。

I mean, in my view, there have been severe first amendment violations by multiple government agencies, and there should be repercussions for that.

那么，因为这是一家私人所有的社交媒体公司，是否适用不同的法律？我的意思是，当你审视它时，到底适用哪些法律？

And is it is it do different laws apply because it's a privately owned social media company? I mean, what what what what laws do apply in terms of, like, when you're looking at it?

如果他们得到了——

If they got One

左派常用的一个论点是，这是一家私人公司，他们可以做任何他们想做的事。

of the arguments that the leftist would use is it's a private company. They could do whatever they want.

是啊，有趣的是当角色互换时，他们现在却说私营公司不能为所欲为。

Yeah. It's funny that when the shoe's on the other foot, they now say the private company can't do whatever it wants.

嗯对，现在他们不高兴了。

Well yeah. Now they're upset.

不。这就像是...但但但政府本身不被允许审查言论。而在我看来，政府实际上确实审查了言论，至少应该有一个案例让公众听到。因为如果政府严重胁迫，你知道，一个平台或者说胁迫新闻界，那么我认为这应该构成第一修正案的违反。

No. That's like but but the the the government itself is not allowed to censor speech. But in in my view, the government de facto did censor speech, and there should at least be a case where, that is heard by the public. Because if the government, severely coerces, you know, a a platform a sort of a coerces the press, then I think that is a or should be a First Amendment violation.

但他们不能对其他媒体形式这么做，对吧？他们不被允许对其他任何媒体...他们不能...他们不会那么做

Well, they can't do it with other media forms. Right? They're they're not allowed to do it with any other they're they're not they're not do that

对报纸那样做，没错。那会惹上麻烦。

with a newspaper, that Right. That get in trouble.

还是说他们真会？你知道，问题就在这儿。就像我们之前不知道联邦政府...不知道情报机构在推特内部的活动，直到被曝光。你觉得这种现象普遍存在吗？

Or would they? You know, that's the question. It's like, you didn't know about f the the the federal government. You didn't know about the intelligence agencies inside of Twitter until we found out. Like, do you think that this is ubiquitous?

这绝对涉及所有社交媒体公司。事实上现在，X或者说以前叫推特的公司，是唯一没有被政府束缚的。只有它。其他所有公司都对政府唯命是从。

Is this It's absolutely all the social media companies. In fact, right now, x or f you know, formerly known as Twitter is the only one that that is not cow tied to the government. It's the only one. There isn't all the others just do exactly what the government wants.

这太疯狂了。对。我想问的是，你觉得这种现象无处不在吗？

That is wild. Yes. What I was getting at, do you think that that's everywhere?

是啊。你觉得...

Yeah. Do you think

CNN也这样吗？《纽约时报》也这样吗？《华盛顿邮报》也这样吗？因为他们既然能渗透社交媒体...

that that's CNN? Do you think that that's the New York Times? Do you think that that's the Washington Post? Because if they were gonna infiltrate media Yeah. Infiltrate social media.

我是说，媒体步调一致的程度真是奇怪。为什么媒体会步调一致？为什么媒体不再质疑政府了？他们过去可是会质疑的。

The the the I mean, it is weird the degree to which the media is in lockstep. Like, why is the media in lockstep? And why doesn't the media question the government? They used to.

没错。

Right.

为什么他们不再那样做了？这很奇怪。有些事情说不通。你觉得...

Why don't they do that anymore? Seems weird. Something doesn't add up. What do you

我认为有很多因素在起作用。其中一个重要因素是制药公司被允许在电视上打广告，而全球只有两个国家允许这样做。

think well, there seems like there's a bunch of factors. Right? I think one of the big factors is pharmaceutical drug companies allowed to advertise on television, and we're one of two countries in the world that allow that.

其实我支持医药广告。只要内容真实——毕竟有些药物确实能帮到人，但宣传必须准确。说句公道话，我认为医药广告总体上还是准确的，这没什么问题。

I actually agree with pharmaceutical advertising provider. It is truthful because they could they could be some drug that is helpful to someone, but, obviously, the claims need to be accurate. So I actually think pharmaceutical advertising, if it is accurate I think it actually, you know, play devil's advocate here. I think pharmaceutical advertising is generally accurate. I I think that's actually okay.

现在很多审查其实间接来自广告商、公关公司和非营利组织。这些机构要么想推广特定观点，要么被非营利组织驱使——比如某些组织会施压广告商在某些平台投不投广告。常听到乔治·索罗斯这个反面典型，但他确实是民主党最大金主，第二是山姆·班克曼-弗里德。

Now now I should say that that a lot of the censorship that we see is is is coming from indirectly from advertisers and advertising agencies and from PR companies who who want a particular viewpoint pushed or are being driven by nonprofits to push a like, what what'll happen is there's a there'll be a sort of a group of nonprofits or or or, you know, that that that push advertisers to advertise or not advertise in particular platform. You know, one often hears of the sort of George Soros bogeyman. But, I mean, Soros actually, you know, he he is, I believe, the top contributor to the Democratic Party. The second one was Sam Baccarat Free. Free.

索罗斯的成长经历很坎坷，但在我看来，他骨子里憎恨人类。这是我的看法。

Yeah. So and and Soros, I don't know. I mean, he had a very difficult upbringing, and I in my opinion, he fundamentally hates humanity. That's my opinion.

真的吗？

Really?

是啊。他的所作所为在侵蚀文明根基——比如扶持那些拒绝起诉犯罪的检察官上位，这就是旧金山、洛杉矶等城市问题的根源。他为什么要这么做？

Yeah. I mean, well, he's doing things that erode the fabric of civilization. You know, getting DAs elected who refused to prosecute crime. That's part of the problem in San Francisco and LA and much other cities. So why would you do that?

他恨的是全人类，还是仅仅针对美国？

Was it humanity, or is it just The United States as a whole?

我是说，他也在把业务推向其他国家。

I mean, he's pushing things to other countries too.

他正在做同样的事情。

He's doing the same thing.

是啊。现在的乔治已经相当年迈了。我是说，他基本上已经有点老年痴呆了。但他很聪明，非常擅长套利。你知道，他因做空英镑而闻名。

Yeah. Now George, at this point, is pretty old. I mean, he's not, you know, he's basically a bet senile at this point. But, I mean, he he and and he's he's he's smart, and he's very good at arbitrage. You know, famously, he shorted the British pound.

我觉得他就是靠做空英镑赚到第一桶金的。所以他擅长发现别人看不到的价值套利机会。他注意到地方选举的资金价值远高于全国性选举。总统选举的资金价值最低，其次是参议院选举，然后是国会选举，但到了地方检察官这一级，资金价值就变得极高。

That's sort of how I think he made his first money with shorting the pound. So he's he's good at spotting, basically, arbitrage like spotting value for money that other people don't see. So one of the things he noticed was that in it it that that the value for money in local races is much higher than it is in national races. The lowest value for money is a presidential race. Then next lowest value for money is a senate race, then a congress, and then but once you get to sort of city and state district attorneys, the value of money is extremely good.

索罗斯意识到你其实不需要改变法律，只需要改变执法方式。如果没人选择执行法律或选择性执法，效果就和修改法律一样。这就是他的发现。

And Soros realized that you don't actually need to change the laws. You just need to change how they're enforced. If nobody chooses to enforce the law or the laws are differentially enforced, it's like changing the laws. That's what he that's what he figured out.

但这正是套利。这种趋势没人踩刹车让它逆转。

But it's what's It's arbitrage. That this trend that people haven't pulled the brakes on this and have it reverse course.

他们在踩刹车？是啊，现在就在踩刹车。

They're pulling the brakes? Yeah. Yeah. Pulling the brakes right now.

对，你是。但你可能是个例外。

Yeah. You are. But you might be the only one.

我觉得应该有更多人这么做。大多数人不想惹是生非，他们渴望社会认同。要是看到负面报道，他们就崩溃了。我可不在乎这些。

Well, I think more people should. Most people just don't wanna rock the boat. Most people are looking for acceptance from society, and they they're you know, if there's some negative press article, they're, like, shattered. I couldn't give a damn.

没错。

Right.

来吧，让我开心一下。

Go ahead. Make my day.

嗯，这很有趣，如果你是像你这样高调的公众人物，不可能让每个人都满意。所以总会有人说你的坏话。是的。不知怎么的，当这些言论印出来时，是否意味着更严重？因为其他人会看到这些糟糕的话？

Well, it's fascinating where if you're a high profile public figure like yourself, no there's no there's it's impossible to make everybody happy. So there's going to be someone who says something shitty about you. Yeah. Somehow or another when it's in print, does that mean more? Because other people are gonna see this shitty thing?

嗯，我想是的。

Well, I guess

这变得很奇怪。因为本质上，《纽约时报》的一篇文章只是一个人的观点，而且谁...是的...会参与其中。

where it gets odd. Because, essentially, an article in the New York Times is just a single person's opinion and who Yeah. Gets involved.

只是会有很多人读到它。我是说，读的人比以前少了。但人们知道

It's just a lot of people will read that. I mean, less less people lease it. But think people know

现在。

that now.

人们知道。发现现在的《纽约时报》很难读下去。

People know that. Find the New York Times these days to be hard to read.

嗯，不幸的是，他们犯了一些严重的错误。

Well, unfortunately, they make some grave errors.

是的。

Yeah.

比如那个哈马斯轰炸...哈马斯？那个...不。是的。我是说轰炸医院的故事。是的。

Like that Hamas bombing the the Hamas? The the no. Yeah. I mean bombing the hospital story. Yes.

很好吃。

It's delicious.

我是说，我认为我们应该直接切断福来鸡的出口。这样就能立刻让他们屈服。不然怎么办？拿块薯片蘸空气吃吗？

I mean, that I think we should just cut off Chick fil A exports. That'll that'll bring them to the knees right away. What do do? Take a chip and dip it in nothing?

我们需要做的是让他们尝尝菠萝凤尾鱼披萨。我希望这个计划能成。

What we need to do is introduce them to pineapple and anchovy pizza. They will have I hope that's coming.

那会

That'll be

能成吗？

Is that coming?

应该可以。我是说

Should be. Yeah. I mean

我们有披萨品牌吗，比如公司名字？

Do we have a a pizza name, like a company?

有的。我去...我去搜集些信息。不过我想做个好的。就叫'莱昂披萨'。

I think so. I'll I'll I'll get some information. I wanna make this good one, though. Pizza Leon.

哦，这名字靠谱。

Oh, that's legit.

挺接近了。

It's pretty close.

好的，相当不错。就这样，很好。他们给我们时间表了吗？

Okay. It's pretty good. There we go. Nice. Did they give us a timeline?

我觉得应该不会太久。他们离得不远，而且现在很晚了，所以我估计二十分钟，也许三十分钟吧。最多四十分钟。但是

I'd it shouldn't take too long. They're not too far away, and it's late, so it shouldn't I would have bet twenty minutes, thirty minutes maybe. Alright. Max 40. But

保持健康并不总是容易的，但它应该很简单。这就是为什么过去三年我每天都喝AG1。AG1是一种基础营养补充剂，支持全身健康。它简单、有效且全面。只需每天一勺，混入水中饮用即可。

Taking care of your health isn't always easy, but it should be simple. And that's why for the last three years, I've been drinking AG one every day. AG one is a foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole body health. It's simple, effective, and comprehensive. It's just one scoop mixed in water once a day, every day.

再简单不过了，而且味道很棒，带有菠萝和香草的香气。无论在家还是在外，当我服用AG1时，我知道我获得了保持最佳状态所需的营养。AG1是一种科学配方的维生素、益生菌和全食物来源成分，支持大脑、肠道和免疫系统。它是一种旨在提升你基础健康水平的基础营养补充剂。每一勺AG1都含有75种高品质成分，这些成分经过精心挑选以确保吸收、效力和营养密度，让你真正感受到益处。

It couldn't be easier and it tastes great with hints of pineapple and vanilla. And whether I'm at home or on the road, when I take AG1, I know I'm getting the nutrients that I need to help me feel my best. AG1 is a science driven formula of vitamins, probiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients that support your brain, gut, and immune system. It's a foundational nutrition supplement designed to raise your baseline health. Every scoop of AG1 contains 75 high quality ingredients that are obsessively sourced for absorption, potency, and nutrient density, So you can actually feel the benefits.

相信我，你会爱上服用AG1后的感觉。所以如果你想掌控自己的健康，就从AG1开始。尝试AG1，首次购买即可免费获得一年份的维生素D3和K2，以及五份免费的AG1旅行装。访问drinkag1.com/joerogan。

Trust me. You're going to love the way you feel when you take AG one. So if you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG one. Try AG one and get a free one year supply of vitamin d three and k two and five free a g one travel packs with your first purchase. Go to drinkag1.com/joerogan.

网址是drinkag1.com/joerogan。去看看吧。本期节目由Oracle赞助。AI可能是迄今为止最重要的新计算机技术。它正在席卷每个行业，投资金额高达数百亿美元。

That's drinkag1.com/joerogan. Check it out. This episode is brought to you by Oracle. AI might be the most important new computer technology ever. It's storming every industry and literally billions of dollars are being invested.

所以做好准备吧。问题是AI需要大量的速度和处理能力。那么如何在成本不失控的情况下竞争呢？是时候升级到下一代云——Oracle云基础设施（OCI）了。OCI是一个统一的平台，满足你的基础设施、数据库、应用开发和AI需求。

So buckle up. The problem is that AI needs a lot of speed and processing power. So how do you compete without costs spiraling out of control? It's time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure or OCI. OCI is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs.

OCI的带宽是其他云的四到八倍，提供统一价格而非区域浮动定价。当然，在数据方面没有人比Oracle做得更好。现在你可以以两倍的速度训练AI模型，成本却不到其他云的一半。如果你想做得更多而花费更少，像Uber和其他数千家企业一样，免费试用OCI，请访问oracle.com/rogan。网址是oracle.com/rogan。oracle.com/rogan。

OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds, offers one consistent price instead of variable regional pricing, And of course, nobody does data better than Oracle. So now you can train your AI models at twice the speed and less than half the costs of other clouds. If you wanna do more and spend less like Uber and thousands of others, take a free test drive of OCI at oracle.com/rogan. That's oracle.com/rogan. Oracle.com/rogan.

你知道，这真是……就像我说的，我非常尊重这一点。有人愿意在深夜做披萨。是的，我脱帽致敬。我是说，感谢……这真是太棒了。

You know, that's something, like, after I say I've got a lot of respect for it. Somebody's, like, willing to make pizza late at night. Yeah. My my hat is off. I mean, thank thank that is, like, great.

绝对。你知道吗？深夜美食。我很感激……如果你能吃到一顿很棒的深夜大餐。是的，脱帽致敬。

Absolutely. You know? Late night food. I appreciate the if you can get a really good late night meal Yeah. Hats off

完全同意。或者摘掉假发。百分百赞同。

Totally. Or wigs off. 100%.

是啊。我我超爱高品质的深夜美食，这曾是洛杉矶的一大特色。没错。他们有家太平洋餐车，全天24小时都能吃到正宗牛排。

Yeah. I'm I'm a giant fan of very good late night food, and that's one of the things that, like, Los Angeles really used to have. Yeah. They had a Pacific Dining Cart where you can get a legit steak twenty four hours a day.

真的吗？太棒了。

Really? That's great.

不确定洛杉矶市中心那家是否还在营业。圣莫尼卡的分店应该关了，但市中心那家太平洋餐车曾是正经牛排馆，凌晨两三点从喜剧俱乐部出来就能吃到。

I don't know if it's still open in Downtown LA. I believe the one in Santa Monica closed, but a Pacific Dining Cart in Downtown LA was a legit steakhouse, and you get it. We would leave the Comedy Store two, three in the morning, get a legit steak.

真酷。

That's cool.

现在还开着吗？显示暂时关闭。

Is that still open? Temporarily closed.

该死的疫情搞垮了他们。疫情摧毁了太多餐厅，太疯狂了。

Fucking COVID got them. COVID just took out so many restaurants. It's crazy.

它不会重开了。

It's not coming back.

是啊。他们的网站似乎也挂了。

Yeah. Their website seems to be down too.

没错。它们回不来了。该死的疫情一度让洛杉矶70%的餐厅倒闭。

Yeah. They're not coming back. Motherfucker. COVID got 70% of the restaurants in LA at one point.

哇。

Wow.

应该说不是新冠本身，而是政策。

Not COVID, I should say. Policies.

封城措施。那种精神病毒。简直太疯狂了。是啊。

Well Lockdowns. The mind virus. I mean, it's, like, just crazy. Yeah.

这就是我搬来这里的原因之一。2020年5月我们来这时，还能进餐厅堂食。当时我两个孩子才10岁和12岁，他们就说想住在这里。

Well, that's why I moved here. One one of the reasons why I moved here is we came here in May 2020, and you could go indoors and eat in restaurants. And Yeah. And my kids who were pretty young at the time, 10 and 12, they were like, we wanna live here. Yeah.

他们被吓坏了。洛杉矶那边太诡异了。我是说，

So it's like they're freaked out. Like, LA was weird. Yeah. I mean,

疫情期间大部分时间我都在南德州建星际飞船工厂。我们根本不戴口罩，就正常建厂造火箭。加州来的团队全副武装，看到我们没戴口罩都吓坏了，我们就说：老兄，我们还活得好好的呢。

for for most of COVID, I was actually in South Texas building this this Starship factory. And, you know, we're just we had no mask, no nothing. Just building a factory, building rockets. And then, you know, that you have teams from California visit all masked up, and that freak out that we don't have masks, and we're like, we're still alive, man. Yeah.

所以

So

你们工厂有人因新冠去世吗？

Did you lose anybody? Did anybody from your factory die of COVID?

据我所知没有。某种程度上我算是看过预演——疫情最早在武汉暴发时，特斯拉在中国有两万员工，但没人死亡或重症。

Not that I'm aware of. No. So so part of it is that, like, that I I kinda saw a dress rehearsal, which is that, you know, I kinda started in Wuhan. And so Tesla's got about 20,000 employees in in China. And so the, you know, the first wave occurred happened in China, and and we had nobody died or got seriously ill.

我当时就想：既然这样，情况应该不会太糟。我们根本不看政府数据，直接看谁没来上班就知道了。

I was like, okay. Well, like, this is, you know, can't be that bad if and and and and we're just we're not relying on government statistics. We literally know who shoot up for work. You know? Right.

他们到底有没有违规进入？而我们这边没人死亡，也没有人得重病。所以我就想，不知道这有什么大不了的。

Did they bad did did they badge in or not? And we had no no one die, and no one got seriously ill. So I'm like, well, I don't know what the big deal is.

问题是人们仍固执于最初相信并宣扬的叙事。他们不断重复这套说辞，直到今天还会为此争辩。至今仍有人为封锁措施、疫苗强制令和关闭学校的合理性辩护。那些在2020年发表观点的人，现在还在进行思维体操，试图证明当初的选择是正确的。

Well, there's a problem that people still wanna stick to this initial narrative that they believed and that they espoused. They're like, they repeated it. And so they'll still fight you on this today. People still fight you today on the merits of the lockdowns, the importance of vaccine mandates, closing schools. There's people that stated an opinion in 2020, and they still are doing mental gymnastics to try to make it seem like that was the right choice.

不，这只是恐慌。而且很多死亡被归咎于新冠，其实与新冠毫无关系。说实话，一开始我就觉得治疗手段比疾病本身更糟糕。

No. It's just a panic. Yeah. And and a lot of deaths got described to COVID that had nothing to do with COVID. And in fact, I'd say in the beginning, the cure is worse than the disease.

因为人们过度恐慌。一旦有人确诊新冠，就被插管上呼吸机一周，这基本上会灼伤肺部。想象被麻醉状态下喉咙插着管子，承受高压纯氧治疗——短期手术尚可，持续一周绝对会烤焦你的肺。

So, because people panic too much. And so that somebody would get diagnosed with COVID, they put them on, intubated vent ventilator for a week, and this was gonna basically cook your lungs. So if you if you if you're on pure o two, under pressure with a a tube stuck down your throat and under anesthetic, this is this is very bad for you. Like, it's one thing if you do that for a couple hours for an operation, but you do that for a week. It's gonna it's gonna roast your lungs.

我们现在呼吸的空气含有78%氮气、1%氩气和约21%氧气。如果问大多数人呼吸什么，他们会说氧气。错，你主要呼吸的是氮气。

Like, the with the air that we're breathing right now is is 78% nitrogen, 1% argon, about 21 oxygen, and and it's a miscellaneous. So if you ask most people, what are you breathing? They say, oxygen. No. You're breathing nitrogen.

氧气只占约五分之一，氩气约71%（注：此处应为口误，实际大气中氩气占比约0.93%）。由于制造航天器需要设计生命支持系统，我对这些很了解——在真空中维持生命必须精确计算氮氧比例。

Only about a fifth of it is is oxygen, and there's about one, like, 71% argon. So I know quite a lot about life support systems because we make spaceships, and there's and you have to keep people alive in a vacuum. So you gotta say, okay. What percentage of nitrogen? What percentage of oxygen are you gonna do?

海平面气压约15磅/平方英寸，其中20%氧气的分压约3磅。航天器（尤其是宇航服）需要降低总压力——保持足够氧分压的同时减少氮含量，避免15PSI压力下宇航服像气球般僵硬影响活动。

What's the pressure gonna be? And so, like, sea level pressure is about 15 pounds per square inch. And the the partial pressure of oxygen at 20 being 20% is therefore roughly three pounds per square inch of oxygen. So in in a in a spacecraft, you wanna and especially if you're in a spacesuit, you wanna lower the pressure. So you wanna keep the the oxygen still still get people enough oxygen to function, obviously, but you wanna lower the nitrogen content so that you don't have a spacesuit that's at at 15 PSI.

通常会把压力降至5-7PSI左右，维持约3PSI氧分压，再搭配3PSI氮气。这样就是五五开的氮氧混合气体——不过这样持续一周的话，设备内部会变得相当燥热。

Because at 15 PSI, you just, you know, just pop out like a balloon. It's, like, hard to move. Ah. So so you wanna try to lower the pressure, you know, down to around, I don't know, six, seven PSI, maybe even five PSI. So you'd you'd lower it to you know, try to keep the oxygen partial pressure of oxygen roughly the same, so maybe around three PSI and then three psi of of nitrogen.

所以采用50%氮气和50%氧气的混合比例，然后你会发现运行一周后系统会变得很烫。对，可能需要调整。

So you got fifty fifty mix of nitrogen and oxygen, and and then you say it's getting pretty hot into that week. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a while.

光是听着就觉得热，我都出汗了。

I just felt like getting hot. I'm sweating.

会有点出汗和发痒。稍微有点。

It's gonna be sweaty and itchy. A little bit.

是啊。真不敢相信人们整天穿着它们。

Yeah. Can't believe people wear them all day.

没错。总之，我我我对如何在真空中维持人的生命略知一二。懂吧？我们设计了生命支持系统，用于在太空的真空环境中维持人类生命，这非常困难。

Yeah. So Anyway, so I I I know a thing or two about keeping people alive in a vacuum. You know? Right. So, you know, we designed the life support system for keeping humans alive in a vacuum in the vacuum of space, which is very difficult.

所以我们非常清楚维持生命需要什么。你你不想让人长时间呼吸100%纯氧，这实际上对身体不好。

So we we know quite a lot about, what it takes to keep people alive. So you you don't want do not wanna pee pee people, you know, a 100% oxygen. It's actually for for an extended period of time, this is not good for you.

嗯，他们给80%的人上了呼吸机后都死了。

Well, eighty percent of the people they put on ventilators died.

对。事实上我当时还发帖说过这事，因为我联系了武汉的医生问：'第一波疫情中你们犯的最大错误是什么？'他们早期时回答：'我们给太多人做了插管呼吸机治疗。'于是我当时就在推特上发帖提醒。

Yeah. So in fact, I I actually posted about that because I I called doctors in Wuhan and said, what are the biggest mistakes that you made on the first wave? Those are early on. And they said, we put far too many people on intubated ventilators. So then I I actually posted on Twitter at the time and said, hey.

我从武汉了解到的是，他们犯了个大错——长时间给病人使用插管呼吸机，这实际上才是损伤肺部的元凶，而非新冠病毒。是治疗方式的问题。疗法比疾病更致命。结果人们骂我说'你不是医生'。我说：'没错，但我确实设计带生命支持系统的太空舱啊。'

And what I'm hearing from Wuhan is that they made a big mistake in putting people, on intubated ventilators for an extended period, and that this this is actually what is damaging the lungs, not COVID. It's the treatment. It's the cure is worse than the disease. And they I just people yelled at me and said, I'm not a doctor. I'm like, yeah, but I do make space shifts with life support systems.

你是做什么的？

What do you do?

我喜欢这说法。

I like that.

我转旋钮的。好吧。太棒了。继续摇滚吧。

I twiddle knobs. I'm like, okay. Great. Yeah. Rock on.

唉，当时有种非常荒诞的叙事，要求你必须相信政府告诉你的一切。你必须全盘接受CDC的说法。甚至随着时间的推移，当我们意识到‘嘿，这病毒看起来他妈像是实验室泄漏的’——即便到那时，提出质疑仍会让你被封号，被YouTube踢出平台。

Well, again, it was there was this very bizarre narrative that you had to believe everything that the government was telling you. You had to believe everything the CDC was telling you. And that even as it time went on and we realized, hey, it looks like this came from a fucking lab. Like, even as time went on, disputing that would get you banned. It would get you kicked off YouTube.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为直到今天，YouTube上仍然禁止讨论疫苗相关的某些观点。

I think to this day, there's certain things you're not allowed to say in regards to the vaccine on YouTube. As

我说过，目前唯一没有疯狂审查制度的媒体平台就是X（推特）。就我所知是这样。其他所有平台都在搞审查。

I said, the the only media that is not does not have crazy censorship at this point is x Yeah. That I'm aware of. Everyone else either it is everything else is censored.

Spotify没有。所以这很...

Spotify isn't. That's why this can Good

丹尼尔·埃克干得漂亮。

good for Daniel Ek.

噢，丹尼尔·埃克真是个人物。

Oh, Daniel Ek's the man.

没错，他太棒了。

Yeah. He's great.

我超欣赏那家伙。要知道，我觉得更多公司应该效仿他们。本不该搞成现在这样。可惜对我们来说，他们在瑞典斯德哥尔摩，那里的人持有截然不同的立场。

I love that dude. And, you know, I think more companies should follow suit. I don't think it has to be this way. Unfortunately, for us, they're they they're in Sweden. In Stockholm, Sweden, they have a very different perspective.

综合症。关于这些破事。最离谱的是氮气那部分——我们从空气中提取的氮气主要来自化肥。抱歉。

Syndrome. On all this shit. Yeah. What's wild about the nitrogen is that, like, that's mostly nitrogen from fertilizer we suck out of the air. Sorry.

什么什么你的意思是？我们制造肥料的大部分氮气是从空气中提取的。

The what what do you mean? Most of the nitrogen for fertilizer we suck out of the air.

没错。这其实是化学领域的一项重大发明——固氮技术。氮气本身相当惰性，所以要从空气中分离并固定成氨相当困难。基本上，合成氨工艺的发明具有极其重要的意义。

Yeah. It's in one one of the actually, the the big inventions in chemistry was binding nitrogen. It's nitrogen's actually fairly inert, so it's quite hard to to actually pull nitrogen out there and bind it into into, like, ammonia. Like like, basically, the process for creating ammonia was was actually a very important

哈伯法。对，弗里茨·哈伯。就是发明齐克隆毒气的同一个人。

The Haber method. Yeah. Fritz Haber. Yeah. Same guy who invented Zyklon gas.

但从空气中获取氮气制造肥料的技术，坦白说是个拯救无数生命的规模化发明。因为天然氮源会枯竭，而纯氮处于低能态，将其转化为肥料需要光能驱动，这个过程相当棘手。

But the it was actually very important to, buy nitrogen from the air, to fertilizer. So that that that actually was, frankly, as a lifesaving invention at scale because you just run out of of of of nitrogen. So, like, nitrogen pure nitrogen is is a low energy state. So to try to bind it into fertilizer is requires light energy to do that. It's quite quite tricky.

所以这是个非常重要的突破。

So that was a very important breakthrough.

是啊。我读到过普通人体内50%的氮元素都来自这个方法，通过食物链摄入的氮元素有一半源于此。

Yeah. I read that 50% of the nitrogen in most people's body comes from that method. 50% of the nitrogen in most people's body that they've consumed from food.

噢，对。因为光合...生命...确实如此。

Oh, yeah. Yeah. For for because of photo Yeah. Life. Because of that Yeah.

这个说法可能成立。获取植物所需的氮素是贯穿人类文明的根本难题，即使在雨林生态中，可利用的化合态氮也是限制因素。

Probably that might be true. It it was a fundamental problem for, most of civilization is how you get nitrogen for the plants. The limiting factor, in fact, even in the rainforest is, like, the nitrogen is is bound nitrogen.

未来殖民火星时，关于地球化改造的构想是什么？是建造穹顶下的封闭生态系统吗？你们计划如何使其宜居？

What are the when you do eventually colonize Mars, what what's the idea in terms of terraforming? Is it contained ecosystems that were are under domes? Like, what what are what are you planning on doing to make it habitable?

初期必须建立生命维持系统，因为火星大气密度仅有地球1%，主要成分是二氧化碳。长期来看可以进行地球化改造——即让火星环境趋近地球。如果加热火星，冻结的二氧化碳会升华增厚大气层，实际上我们需要在火星制造温室效应，毕竟火星与太阳距离比地球远50%。

Well, at first, you would have to have a life support system, because Mars has a low density atmosphere, only about 1% the density of Earth, and it's primarily c o two. Now over time, you could you can terraform Mars. Terraform means make it like Earth, essentially. And if you warm Mars up, you will, there's a bunch of frozen c o two that will evaporate, densify the atmosphere, and, you'd actually want kinda global warming on Mars. Because Mars is about 50% further away from the sun than the Earth.

因此它接收到的太阳能不到地球的一半。

So it gets about less than half the solar energy that that Earth does.

而且据信在某个时期，火星的环境与现在大不相同，对吧？

And it's believed at one point in time, Mars had a a much different environment. Right?

极有可能火星曾拥有液态海洋，尽管那是在很久以前。现在有大量冰层覆盖火星表面，这些冰层大部分被尘埃覆盖，除了两极地区。总之火星上存在大量冰。

It is it it appears highly likely that Mars had liquid oceans, albeit a long time ago. There's a lot of ice. So there's there's Mars is covered in ice. And now the ice is then covered in dust for the mo mostly except at the poles. So there's there's just there's a lot of ice.

事实上，我认为如果火星温度升高，其40%的表面将形成约一英里深的海洋。哇，那真是相当多的水。

In fact, I believe if if Mars was warmed up, you'd have an ocean about a mile deep on 40% of the of the planet. Wow. So it's it's quite a lot of water.

我们是否认为它曾经就是那样的状态？

And do we think that it was like that at one point in time?

证据表明火星极可能存在过液态水。

The evidence suggests that it is most likely that Mars had liquid water.

关于其消亡的主流理论是什么？

What's the prevailing theory of its demise?

嗯，随着时间的推移，太阳系逐渐冷却。地球早期也曾非常炽热，就像熔岩球体。要知道最初几乎没有任何生命能存活，我们就是个岩浆球。

Well, just over time, the solar system cooled. So Earth used to be much hot like, it in the very early Earth was like molten rock. You know? So really almost nothing could survive in the beginning. We're just a ball of lava.

我们现在仍然主要是个岩浆球，就像焦糖布丁——薄薄的地壳下是炽热软化的岩石。严格来说那些岩石处于半固态，但一旦压力降低，比如从海底冒出，就会形成火山喷发岩浆。

We're still mostly a ball of lava. We're like creme brulee. Like, there's a thin crust, and and it's mushy mushy rock under super very hot mushy rock underneath. And, technically, that that rock is on in a semi solid state, but as soon as it gets to a low pressure, like, pops out of the ocean, you have a volcano, obviously, with lava. Yeah.

所以在表面环境压力下，我们基本上是被液态岩石覆盖着的。

So it's, at at at at at at surface ambient pressure, the we're basically covered in liquid rock.

你意识到我们是

Are you aware We're

我们是，我们是，那只是液态岩石上的一层薄壳。

we're we're it's a thin crust on liquid rock.

你知道多贡部落的起源神话吗？

Are you aware of the origin myth of the Dogon tribe?

不知道。

No.

非洲某个部落——我记不清具体在哪个地区了——他们相信自己来自火星，认为很久很久以前有文明从火星迁徙而来。这个理论非常离奇，因为他们确实掌握了一些关于火星的知识。

There's a tribe in I believe it's a tribe in I forget what part of Africa, but they believe that they came from Mars and that there was a civilization that left Mars, you know, many, many eons ago. And it's it's a really weird it's a really weird theory because they know some things about Mars.

是啊。但我很确定他们不是火星来的。

So Yeah. I'm pretty sure they didn't come from Mars.

噢，我也很确定。

Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure too.

但问题是，太空船呢？如果没有太空船，我就不信这套说法。要是他们真有太空船，我就信。

But, I mean, it's it's one year spaceships? If there aren't any spaceships, then I'm like, I don't believe it. Well If they could have a spaceship, I'll believe it.

如果你把太空船停在那儿，金属制的太空船能停放几千年？就像把一辆赛博卡车丢在沙漠里——你觉得几千年后它还会在那儿吗？

If you parked a spaceship, how many thousands of years you've parked a metal spaceship? Like, if you left a Cybertruck in the desert Yeah. How many thousands of years do you think it would be there for before it's gone?

如果被泥土掩埋的话，就算过了一百万年我们也能找到它。

If it got burial If it got buried in dirt, we'd find it find it even, like, a million years from now.

一百万？

A million?

是啊。哇。真的吗？嗯，你会发现的是

Yeah. Wow. Really? Well, you'd what you'd find is

不锈钢。所以它必须是某种合金。它有点像...但铁不会这样。对吧？

stainless steel. So it'd have to be some sort of an alloy. It it would it's kinda like But iron wouldn't. Right?

对。你...但你会得到类似于化石的东西，基本上。懂吗？就像那些化石

Yeah. You you but you'd have something similar to, like like, fossils, basically. You know? Like, the fossils

好吧。

Okay.

它们本质上会使岩石变色。所以最终，无论化石是什么——有时化石可能是琥珀之类的东西——那些部分或多或少能保持完整。但我是说，也有像恐龙化石和树木化石那样的

They they they essentially discolor the rock. So, eventually, the whatever the fossil is and sometimes the fossil is like an amber or something like that that that's that's where it it's still they survive more or less intact. But, I mean, there's fossilized like, dinosaur fossils and tree fossils

本质上是被矿化的。对吧？对。对。

that Essentially remineralized. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

所以你基本上会在岩石里看到一个赛博卡车的形状。

So you'd you'd you'd see it like a Cybertruck shape in the rock, basically.

没错。但仅此而已。你不会找到真正的赛博卡车。

Yeah. But that's it. You wouldn't find the actual Cybertruck.

所以如果

And So if

他们确实有一艘宇宙飞船，三万年前来到了这里。

they did have a spaceship and it came here thirty thousand years ago.

哦，是啊。我们肯定会找到证据的。呃，我是说，如果只是一艘飞船，可能找不到。但如果是很多艘，那肯定能找到。

Oh, yeah. Yeah. We'd we'd definitely find it evidence of it. Well, not I mean, if it's one spaceship, maybe not. But if it was a lot of them, sure.

这就是多贡部落的起源神话对吧？我没说错吧？

That is the origin myth of the Dogon tribe. Right? Am I getting that right?

特指火星。它是天狼星系统中一颗隐藏的恒星

Mars specifically. It's a hidden star in a Sirius

哦，是别的地方啊。

Oh, somewhere else.

没错。你不可能是在说天狼星。

Yeah. You cannot be Sirius.

天狼星XM卫星广播？当人们有这种怪异的起源神话时真的很奇怪。我在想是谁第一个告诉他们来自星星的。假如我们真的成功殖民火星，而地球因为人类愚蠢或自然灾害毁灭了，最后只剩下火星殖民地...

Sirius XM? It's, it's just very strange when people have this, this bizarre origin myth. Like, I I wonder who was the first one to tell them they came from stars. And when we eventually do, I mean, how bizarre imagine if you're successful, we eventually do colonize Mars, and you're correct. We Earth winds up through human folly or natural disaster getting wiped out, and there's only the colony on Mars.

这个殖民地存在了一两万年，他们的起源神话会说我们都来自地球。我是说，如果这真的发生——你们殖民了火星而地球毁灭了，经过一段时间后...就像看看大金字塔的传统时间线，那是四千五百年前的事。

And that colony exists for ten, twenty thousand years, and they have their origin myth that we all came from Earth. I mean, ultimately, that's going if if this does happen and you do colonize Mars and Earth does get destroyed, And if there a period of time takes place like, look at the the period, like, least the conventional timeline of the Great Pyramid, which is forty five hundred years ago.

五千年。

Five thousand years.

对，那其实不算很久。

Yeah. So that's not that much time.

没那么多时间。

Not that much time.

不，我是说，如果

No. I mean, if

在银河时间尺度上根本不算什么。

It's nothing in the on the galactic time scale.

对。所以如果我们谈论两万、三万年后的火星，人们说起时代广场和地球曾经的模样。

Right. So if we're talking twenty, thirty thousand years from now on Mars and people talk about Times Square and what Earth used to

我是说，我认为这里存在一些争议。就像，如何界定文明何时开始？我会说大概是从文字出现算起。嗯。

be like. I mean, it is I I think, like, there's some debate. It's like, how do you say what the when did civilization start? And I'd say, like, probably from the first writing. Mhmm.

而最早的文字只有5500年历史。是的，值得了解一下文字的历史，但仅仅5500年。这要归功于早已消失的古代苏美尔人，他们发明了最早的文字。

And and the first the first writing is only 5,500 years old. Yeah. It's worth reading about the history of writing, but only 5,500 years. And that and one has to credit basically the ancient Sumerians who aren't around anymore with the first writing.

但你是否知道，有些象形文字记载的埃及历史可以追溯到更久远，甚至可能超过3万年前？不过考古学家认为那是神话所以不予采信。但相信新仙女木撞击理论的非传统考古学家们

Are you aware though that, like, there's hieroglyphs that depict a history of Egypt that goes back far longer, maybe even 30,000 plus years ago, but archaeologists dismiss it because they think that that's mythical. But nonconventional archaeologists who believe in what's called the Younger Dryas Impact Theory

好吧。

Okay.

认为大约11800年前，文明几乎被彗星撞击彻底毁灭。

And that somewhere around 11,800 years ago, civilization was essentially all but wiped out by common impacts.

好吧。

Okay.

这就是为什么他们不断发现这些年代久远、规模庞大的巨石建筑结构的原因。比如，当你追溯到哥贝克力石阵，那可是11600年前的遗迹。

And that that is the reason why they keep finding these insanely old, huge structures, megalithic structures that are carved out of stone. Like, when you go to back to, like, Gobekli Tepe, which is 11,600 years ago.

好吧。

Okay.

那是一座古老得惊人的建筑，直到上世纪九十年代被发现前，人们甚至不知道人类有能力建造这样的东西。按照传统时间线，11600年前的人类还只是狩猎采集者。但现在有了哥贝克力石阵及其三维雕刻物——你看过格雷厄姆·汉考克在网飞拍的精彩纪录片《远古启示录》吗？

That's that's an insanely old structure that they didn't even know people were capable of building until they discovered it in the nineteen nineties. So the conventional timeline of people when you go to eleven thousand six hundred years ago was just hunter gatherers. But now that they have Gobekli Tepe with its three d carved things and have you seen Graham Hancock's amazing series on Netflix called ancient apocalypse?

我知道。你应该

I know. You should

去看看，太震撼了。它讲的就是这个——有大量实物证据表明，早在传统认定的最古老文明（我们定位在6000年前的苏美尔文明）之前，就存在更先进的文明。

check it out. It's amazing. But it's about that. It's all about that there's a lot of physical evidence of an advanced civilization from far, far, far longer ago than we have conventionally dated, which is ancient Sumer, which is we we put it about 6,000 years ago.

是啊。但最早的...精确断代很困难，至少难以精确到几百年内，不过大致是5500年前。比如最古老的石碑是什么？因为你看，如果你是考古学家，发现比那更古老的东西，你会非常出名。

Yeah. But, like, the first it's it's difficult to date to date with precision, but or at least to within a few 100 years, but it's roughly 5,500 years. Like, if say, like, what is the oldest, like, stone tablet? Yeah. Because this is you you know, it's if if you're like an archaeologist, if you were to discover something older than that, you'd be very famous.

懂吗？就像他们真的费尽心思寻找过。确实，5500年基本就是...就我所见，任何实质性的文字证据都是5500年前的。

You know? It's like it's like they really looked hard. Yeah. And 5,500 years really is kind of the the the if you say, like, any kind of evidence that that I've that I've seen that is actually substantial is is writing is 5,500 years old.

对，就文字而言。

Yeah. In terms of writing. Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

他们认为，除了金字塔、狮身人面像这类遗迹，这个远古文明几乎没留下什么。有位地质学家罗伯特·肖赫博士（波士顿大学）冒险提出理论：狮身人面像所在神庙遍布深水侵蚀痕迹，表明曾经历数千年降雨。而尼罗河谷最后一次大规模降雨是在约...

Well, what they believe is that there's very little left of this ancient civilization other than things like the pyramids, other than things like the Sphinx. There's a geologist that really stuck his neck out. His name is doctor Robert Schacht from Boston University. And what he said was his theory is that there's deep water erosion all over the temple of the Sphinx where the Sphinx was carved out of that is indicative of thousands of years of rainfall. And the last time they had rainfall in the Nile Valley was around September.

所以他相信的是，因为那时候整个尼罗河谷还是一片茂密的热带雨林，后来才逐渐退化成沙漠。

So what he believes is because back then, the the whole Nile Valley was a lush rainforest and eventually receded into desert.

好吧。

Okay.

对。整个那片区域，甚至撒哈拉，曾经都是富饶的雨林，后来才变成现在这样。但如果你回溯到那时，他认为那个建筑就是在那时候建的。他说地质学家们实地考察过，如果他只给他们看侵蚀痕迹的图片而不说明地点，几乎所有人都会说那是数千年降雨造成的水蚀痕迹。

Yeah. So the entire that whole area, like, even the Sahara, used to be rich rainforest, and it receded into what it is now. But if you go back then, he believes that's when that thing was constructed. And he said the physical geo the the geologists look at it, And if they if if he shows it to them in terms of, like, just shows an image of the erosion, doesn't tell them where it is, they'll almost all of them will say that's water erosion from thousands of years of rainfall.

我我觉得就算你说...好吧...就算...就算文明有九千年历史，还是微不足道。

I I think even if you say, like, okay. Even if even if, you know, even if you say, like, okay. Civilization is, like, 9,000 years old. There's still nothing.

微不足道。没错。

Nothing. Yeah.

所以我们讨论的，其实只是地球存在时间的极小片段。地质证据显示地球大约有四十五亿年历史，人类文明存在的时间只占地球寿命的约百万分之一。

So, you know, we're still talking about, like, a very tiny fraction of Earth's existence. Like, Yeah. Geological edge of evidence suggests the Earth is about four and a half billion years old. So human civilization has been around for roughly one millionth of earth's existence. Yeah.

基本可以忽略不计。就算是一万年前...

There's basically nothing. And if even if it's 10,000 in its

就算是三万年前...

Even if it's 30,000

...也还是微不足道。对。

ago. Yes. Still nothing. Yeah.

但他们想说的是，文明其实脆弱得可怕。

What they're saying though is that civilization is insanely fragile.

正是如此。

That's Exactly.

而且远比我们意识到的要脆弱得多。

And much much more fragile, I don't think we realize.

没错。完全同意。我认为我们应该视文明为脆弱之物。

Yes. Absolutely. I think we should view civilization as being fragile.

是啊。但我们没有。人类奇怪的一点在于，除非威胁近在眼前，否则对我们来说那都是抽象的。除非像——披萨到了吗？哦，到了。

Yeah. But we don't. In that it's one of the weird things about people is that we in unless the threat is in front of us, it's abstract. Unless it's like real is the pizza here? Oh, yeah.

披萨到了。对。我是说文明。

Pizza's here. Yeah. Mean civilization.

不。其实我有个儿子在萨克森，他经常有深刻的观察。他问我四千年前的洛杉矶是什么样子。我说那时还不存在。他又问四千年后会是什么样？

No. Actually, one like, one of my sons who is Saxony, he he just has these profound observations. You know, he asked me what was LA like four thousand years ago. I'm like, it wasn't around. And he said, what will it be like four thousand years from now?

大概只剩废墟下的熊了吧，

Probably bear buried under rubble,

我想是吧。很可能和四千年前差不多。对，正是这样。

I guess. Probably very similar to what it was like 4,000 ago. Yeah. Exactly.

辐射会少些。他还问我四千年前人们说英语吗？我说不。然后他问四千年后还会有人说英语吗？

They So less radioactive. And he asked me, did they speak English four thousand years ago? I'm like, nope. Here we go. They will they speak English four thousand years from now?

大概不会了。

Probably not.

我得说明我从不吃披萨。真的吗？

I should point out that I never eat pizza. Really?

从不。为什么不吃？

No. Never. Why not?

因为对身体不太好。

Because it's not really good for you.

嗯，我想没人会认为披萨是世界上最健康的食物。这看起来太棒了。

Well, I don't think anyone's gonna accuse pizza of being like the healthiest thing in the world. This looks awesome.

确实看起来很诱人。要盘子吗杰米？好嘞。快动手吧先生，拿一块。

That does look awesome. You want a plate, Jamie? Yeah. Get in there, sir. Grab a piece.

行。太爽了。开动吧。这太赞了。

Alright. Sick. Let's go. This is awesome.

这家披萨店叫什么名字？

And what's the name of this pizza place, man?

披萨利昂。

Pizza Leon.

披萨利昂？没错。向披萨利昂致敬。哦耶，这正合我胃口。

Pizza Leon? Yep. Shout out to Pizza Leon. Oh, yeah. That really hit the spot.

太正宗了。虽然我不是戴夫·波特诺伊那种专业披萨评论家，不会打分什么的——但绝对出色。

That's legit. Mean, I'm no Dave Portnoy. I'm not like a pizza analyst who probably I'm not gonna rate it. It's excellent.

波特诺伊真的对披萨这么痴迷吗？

Does Portnoy really gets into pizza?

哦，老兄。

Oh, man.

哦，老兄。

Oh, man.

看过波特诺伊分析披萨的视频吗？天啊，简直像有一套完整的方法论。

Ever seen Portnoy's videos where he analyzes pizza? Oh my god. It was like a whole method.

好吧。

Okay.

评分体系。好吧。他讲究饼底、垂坠度这些方方面面。

A number system. Alright. He's into the crust and the flop and all these different things.

哇哦。确实。大家都知道规矩。对。

Wow. Yeah. Everybody knows the rules. Yeah.

什么规矩来着？众所周知——就咬一口。

What what is it? Everybody knows the rules. One bite.

是啊。吃披萨只能咬一口？嗯。

Yeah. You only get one bite of a pizza? Yeah.

不。一口

No. One

咬一口土豆。这是为了，那个规则。就像，那个规则。

bite of potato. That's for, the rule. Like, the rule.

他咬了一口，然后就开始点头。他基本上就像个披萨品鉴师。

He bites into it, and then he just starts nodding his head. He's basically like a sommelier pizza.

披萨品鉴师。好吧。是的。而且而且而且他在那里，他最喜欢的披萨店是哪家？总是奶酪披萨。

A pizza sommelier. Okay. Yeah. And and and it's is he is there, like what's his favorite pizza joint? It's always cheese.

哦，最喜欢的那个。那是大家都想知道的。

Oh, the favorite one. That's the everyone wants to know that.

总是奶酪披萨。

It's always cheese.

是啊。我们在披萨上花了这么多时间。

Yeah. We spend so much time on pizza.

是在纽黑文。康涅狄格州的纽黑文。

And it's New Haven. New Haven, Connecticut.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。不知为何，搬到康涅狄格州纽黑文的意大利人真的搞懂了披萨，比如，他们在纽黑文有超棒的披萨。

Yeah. For some reason, the Italians that moved to New Haven, Connecticut really figured pizza out, like, they have insane pizza in New Haven, Connecticut.

好吧。

Okay.

是啊，真的，简直传奇。我吃过。以前我在那边一家叫'小丑狂野'的喜剧俱乐部工作时就尝过纽黑文的披萨。那披萨就是特别好吃。

Yeah. Like, really, like, legendary. I've had it. There was a comedy club I used to work out there called the Joker's Wild, and I had New Haven pizza even back then. It's just really good pizza.

好吧。

Well, okay.

不过我不明白为什么。感觉这种东西应该是可以复制的。

I don't know why, though. It seems like something that could be replicated.

没错，确实。

Yeah. Exactly.

对，这又不是造火箭。

Yeah. It's not like rocket ship.

是啊。

Yeah.

问题是做披萨的人和造火箭的不是一类人。要是他们真那么厉害，早就复制出来了。他们会研究：'这帮人到底怎么做的？我们来逆向工程一下'。

The thing is, the people that are making pizza are not like the people that are making rocket ships. If they were, they would replicate it. Yeah. They would go, what are these guys doing? Let's back engineer it.

当然。

Sure.

能有多难？那些所谓的秘制酱料什么的——管他里面有什么鬼东西？

Can't be that hard. You know? All these secret sauces and shit. Well, fuck what's in there?

是啊。不过我饿了。不过确实好吃对吧？嗯。

Yeah. Well, I was hungry. It's good though. Right? Mhmm.

菠萝和凤尾鱼的组合，意外地好吃。对吧？

The combination of pineapple and anchovy, surprisingly good. Right?

是啊。我可不是

Yeah. I'm not the

他们那儿做的第一份菠萝凤尾鱼披萨？

first pineapple anchovy pizza they ever made there?

我在菜单上不常见到它。没人点那玩意儿。

I don't see it on their menu very often. Nobody's ordering that shit.

我以前点外卖时会点这个，他们会问，你确定吗？我就说，你觉得我不知道自己在干嘛吗？

I used to order it when I would order for delivery, they'd go, are you sure? I'm like, don't you think I know what I'm doing?

我就要点它。现在还要额外加点砒霜。好吃。这个真不错。

I'm ordering it. With extra now with extra arsenic. It's good. This is good.

不过你知道我为什么不吃这东西，

As you know why I don't eat this stuff, though,

是因为

is that

我停不下来。这就是问题所在。

I cannot stop. That's the problem.

这披萨太美味了。

This pizza's too delicious.

哦，太棒了。高热量、高碳水化合物的食物。一旦开始往嘴里塞，就停不下来。

Oh, so good. High calorie, high carbohydrate foods. Once they start going down the hatch, they don't wanna stop.

警察就是恶魔。哦，他们就是恶魔。

The cops are the devil. Oh, they are the devil.

记得吗？他们曾经是食物链的底层。

Remember? They used to be the base of the food chain.

是啊。

Yeah.

整个金字塔。完整的金字塔。食物金字塔的底部被刻出来了。

The whole pyramid. The full pyramid. The bottom of the food pyramid was carved.

金字塔。埃及人会怎么说？

Pyramid. What would the Egyptians say?

他们会说我们他妈疯了。

They would say we're out of our fucking mind.

我们不会吃这个。对，没错。这东西简直。

We wouldn't eat it. Yeah. Exactly. This stuff is just.

这就是最诡异的地方

That's the bizarre thing about It's

就像在你嘴里放国庆节烟花。

like fourth of July in your mouth.

比如，有多少人只吃加工食品？他们饮食的大部分都是加工食品。超市的整个中心区域摆满了那些你其实不该常吃的东西，偶尔吃吃还行。味道不错，我打赌，杰米。

Like, when how many human beings eat just processed food? Like, the majority of their diet is processed food. Like, the entire center of the supermarket is shit you really probably shouldn't eat except every now and then. It's good, Jamie. I bet.

你要来一个吗？

You want one?

我不要。你好像生气了。不，我尝过这两样东西，说实话都不是我喜欢的。

I don't. You seem offended. No. I did it's two of my not, like, favorite. I don't like either of those things, honestly.

你试过

Have you tried

吗？

it?

这不是我的。

It's not mine.

好吧，菲尔，你应该试试。

Well, Phil, you should try it.

我明白。我觉得我应该

I understand. I feel like I should

尝试一下。我们朝一辆车射了一箭。

about trying it. We shot a arrow at a car.

我就是不会喜欢，而且我不想冒犯披萨利奥，我喜欢那家店。

I'm just not gonna like it, and I don't wanna offend Pizza Leo, and I like that place.

我不会介意的。

I won't be offended.

好吧。说实话，披萨很难搞砸。

Alright. It's hard to mess with pizza, frankly.

不像以前运营推特的那些怪人，我不在乎别人是否和我意见不同。

Unlike the creeps who used to run Twitter, I don't care if someone has a different opinion than me.

老实说，我就是不喜欢鱼。我试过很多次，但至今还是不喜欢。我觉得可能永远

I just don't like fish, to be that honest with you. Like, I'd I've tried it many times, and I still haven't liked it yet. Think there's

不会有

gonna be

那么一天，好吧，我可能会被说服。

the day that's gonna be well, I'm gonna be one over.

你喜欢吃哪种鱼吗？

You like any fish?

不怎么喜欢。

Not really.

你去钓过鱼吗？

You ever go fishing?

蟹肉还行。但我不喜欢整条鱼

Do crab meat. Yeah. But I don't like the whole

你喜欢寿司吗？

Do you like sushi?

不。我是说，我打算周四去尝尝菲利普推荐的那家店。

No. I'm like, I'm gonna that Phillips gonna I'm gonna try some of Phillips on Thursday, though.

你打算尝试，但你其实不喜欢吃鱼。

You're gonna try it, but you don't like fish.

我就像DC（华盛顿特区）人一样。我对那整件事有点害怕。我已经和菲利普详细讨论过了。

I'm like DC. I'm afraid of that whole thing. I've I talked to Philip about it in detail.

好吧。

Okay.

我不常吃鱼。

I don't eat fish that often.

我喜欢。尤其是自己钓的鱼特别好吃。

I like it. Yeah. It's particularly good when you catch it yourself.

你想吃新鲜的？新鲜的鱼确实好很多。好很多？好很多。

You wanna eat it fresh? Fresh fish really is way better. Way better? Way better.

是啊。鱼很容易变质

Yeah. Fish goes bad

很快 是的。

quick Yeah.

不像肉类。对，比如肉，你可以让它放上一段时间。

Unlike meat. Yeah. Like, meat, you can, like, let it sit around for a while.

有点像腌制

Kinda marinate

在烹饪之前。

before you cook.

但我觉得鱼不用腌制吧。

But you don't marinate fish, I think.

其实会的。他们确实会对鱼进行干式熟成。

Well, they do. They actually dry aged fish.

好吧。

Okay.

对，很多地方都会干式熟成鱼。

Yeah. A lot of places dry aged fish.

有意思。这是鱼的熟成。

Interesting. It's the fish.

是啊，我之前不知道。我没意识到这点，但这其实是某些寿司料理的常见做法，比如那些高端餐厅。你去过Sushi by Scratch吗？

Yeah. I didn't know that. I didn't I wasn't aware of that, but that's actually a common practice to dry aged fish for certain sushi dishes, like really gourmet places. Have you ever been to Sushi by Scratch?

是在城里吗？

Is that in town?

是的，就在城外。他以前经营寿司吧，后来卖掉了——我朋友菲利普·富兰克林·李是米其林星级厨师。他曾在城里开寿司吧，卖掉后创办了Sushi by Scratch。

Yeah. It's just outside of town. He used to run Sushi Bar, and then he sold it's my friend Philip Franklin Lee is a Michelin star chef. He used to run Sushi Bar in town. He sold that, and then he opened up Sushi by Scratch.

但由于合同限制，他必须在奥斯汀市区外经营，所以选址在约30英里外。简直太棒了，如果你喜欢寿司，这绝对是你吃过最顶级的。

But because of the contractual obligations, he has to be, like, outside of the Austin proper, so he's about 30 miles away. It's fucking fantastic. If you like sushi, it's like the best sushi you'll ever eat.

好吧。

Okay.

真的超乎想象。你尝过后会惊呼：天啊！这是史上最棒的寿司。

I mean, it's really insane. I I say that with you eat it, and you're like, Jesus Christ. The best sushi of all time.

Sushi by scratch？

Sushi by scratch?

嗯。他们在迈阿密有分店，现在芝加哥也有了，开了好多家。

Mhmm. Well, they have ones in Miami. Well, they have it now in Chicago. They got a bunch of them.

在奥斯汀不允许开？

It's not allowed to do

对，不能在奥斯汀市区。我记得他的竞业禁止协议大概有三年？具体期限不清楚。

it in Austin? No. It's not in Austin proper. I think once his contract is up, you know, he had a noncompete in Austin for, like, three years or something. I don't know how long it was.

或许合约到期后会在奥斯汀开店，现在店址在城外30分钟车程。具体是哪个城市来着？锡达？

Okay. But maybe eventually he'll open up one in Austin, but it's about thirty minutes outside of it. What what city is it again? Cedar?

对，锡达克里克，在松林区那边。

Yeah. Cedar Creek. It's out at a Lost Pines area.

是啊，就三十分钟。

Yeah. It's thirty minutes.

没什么大不了的。从头开始做寿司，明白了。

It's no big deal. Sushi by scratch. Got it.

对，挺烂的。想去的话告诉我一声。

Yeah. It's a shit. Let me know if you wanna go.

我去查查。嗯，当然。

I'll look it up. Yeah. Sure.

没错，太棒了。真的很值。对，超级赞。

Yeah. It's awesome. It's really worth it. Yeah. It's awesome.

像寿司这种，简直让人惊艳。真的绝了。而且是Omakase（主厨发办）。就是你坐下，他们给你上菜。

Like sushi, it's a mindblower. It's a mindblower. And it's Omakase. So, like, you sit down. They bring you food.

就这样。

That's it.

看起来不错。

That looks good.

简直他妈酷毙了。

It's pretty fucking cool.

你去过洛杉矶的松久吗？去过。Omakase兄弟店很棒。

You've been to Matsuhisa in LA? Yes. The Omakase brothers is great.

是的。那家店太棒了。对啊。没错。确实。

Yes. That place is outstanding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

我超爱美味的寿司。令人惊叹的是，奥斯汀有这么多优质餐厅。对于一个规模相对较小的城市来说...

I love good sushi. And it's, one of the things that's amazing is how many good restaurants there are in Austin. I mean, for a city that's relatively small

嗯。

Mhmm.

我是说，那家...

I mean, the Good

人均餐厅数量非常出色。

restaurants per capita is excellent.

太棒了。而且水准都很高。这里有很多匠人精神的餐厅。我们刚发现布莱恩·辛普森推荐的新店。

Amazing. Yeah. And they're so good. There's, like, so many, like, artisan restaurants. We just found a new one that Brian Simpson told us about.

叫Bacalar。

It's called Bacalar.

好的。

Okay.

是家墨西哥餐厅。就在城里。超级赞。真的很好吃。

It's, this Mexican restaurant. This is town. Fantastic. Really good. Yeah.

刚开业不久。大概才六周。给他们打个广告。前几天晚上刚去吃过。

They just opened up. Think they're only open for, like, six weeks. So shout out to them. Just ate there the other night.

好的。

Okay.

只是这里好地方太多了。真的。比如，在这座城市你根本找不到难吃的餐厅。不然很快就会倒闭。

It's just there's so many good places here. Yeah. Like, you can't have a bad restaurant in this town. You will go under quickly.

竞争很激烈。

The competition is strong.

竞争太激烈了，而且种类还特别丰富。

There's so much competition, and it's like and there's so much variety.

是啊。

Yeah.

各种各样的

All kinds of

城里有很多好餐厅。

good restaurants in the town.

没错。太神奇了。记得我刚搬来时，我们还在你家玩，那时候你就预言过这一切——说奥斯汀即将爆发式发展。

Yeah. It's amazing. You know, I remember we were hanging out at your place, like, way back in the day when I first moved here, and you you said something very prophetic when all this was happening. Like Austin's about to go supernova. Yeah.

确实如此。

Kinda did.

是啊。现在可是繁荣之城。

Yeah. It's BoomTown.

是啊。确实如此。没错。千真万确。对。

Yeah. It really is. Yeah. Legitimately. Yep.

说到超级工厂，光是那座工厂你们就为奥斯汀带来了多少就业机会？

And with the the Gigafactory, I mean, how many jobs have you brought into Austin from that factory alone?

直接雇员大概1万人左右，间接创造的就业机会我认为有5万。规模相当大。

Well, we're about 10,000 direct ish, and then I think 50,000 indirect. It's a slot.

这他妈太牛逼了。确实。

That's pretty fucking awesome. Yeah.

我是说，大沃斯顿地区的人口都快饱和了。

I mean, there's there's only too many people in the Great Warston area.

我知道。太疯狂了。

I know. That's crazy.

实际上限制发展的因素就是招不到足够人手。哦。是啊。

In fact, the kind of limiting factor for growth is just finding enough people. Oh. Yeah.

这段录音效果太糟了。我们只能将就着嚼——

This is terrible for sound. Just We're gonna just gonna have chew

替我嚼出声来。就像字幕里写的咀嚼声。这是我最后一块。字幕咀嚼声。

on it for me. Like the subtitle chewing sounds. This is my last piece. The subtitle chewing sounds.

观众们只能忍着了。这是我最后一块。你要抢走吗？你个狗娘养的。

People are gonna have to deal with it. This is my last piece. Are you taking it away? You son of a bitch.

我应该的。

I should.

你这个

You son of a

我突然我突然我突然吃饱了。

I suddenly I suddenly I suddenly eaten my full.

是啊。拿走它吧。我会继续吃的。我要把整他妈的都吃掉。这就是碳水化合物的问题所在。

Yeah. Take it away. I'll keep going. I'll eat the whole fucking That's the problem with and carbs.

是啊。碳水化合物太棒了。

Yeah. Carbs are awesome.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是啊。我知道。不过我感觉很好。我是说，这种碳水化合物带来的多巴胺爆发让我很开心。

Yeah. I know. It's like I feel good, though. I mean, this this dopamine explosion from carbs. I'm happy

我做到了。是啊。

I did it. Yeah.

我是说，偶尔一次没关系。

It's I mean, once in a while, it's fine.

偶尔一次。对我来说，是很久才一次。但是

Once in a while. For me, it's once in a great while. But

就像蒂姆·费里斯说的那样，你知道，每周可以放纵一餐之类的。

Well, there's like like Tim Ferriss has, that, you know, you have one, whatever, one meal a week or something.

对，这主意不错。每周一餐的话，我要选甜食。来个冰淇淋圣代什么的。

Yeah. That's good. Yeah. One meal a week, I'll go with sweets. I'll have a ice cream sundae or some shit.

冰淇淋圣代太棒了。天，简直绝了。真的绝了。我觉得除非抽过大麻，否则大多数人根本不知道冰淇淋圣代有多美味。

Ice cream sundaes are great. Oh, they're fucking amazing. Amazing. Yeah. I don't even think most people know what an ice cream sundae tastes like unless they smoke marijuana.

然后你就会感叹，哇哦。这完全是另一种体验。真是天才的发明。

And then you're like, oh. Yeah. This is a different thing. Yeah. It's an amazing invention.

没错。想到把热巧克力和打发奶油搭配在一起的人真是天才。绝妙组合。太不可思议了。

Yeah. Whoever figured out the hot fudge and then the whipped cream on top of it, what a combo. Incredible. Yeah.

是啊。想来点吗

Yeah. Want some of those

也要吗？可能吧。哦对，可能。好主意。

too? Maybe. Oh, yeah. Maybe. Great idea.

不知道行不行啊女王。肯定不行。我不...

I don't know if that's possible queen. For sure. I don't

冰雪皇后。

Dairy queen.

我是说，现在只有这家开着。哪家靠谱？现在十一点半。我知道有家披萨连锁店，他们家的冰淇淋圣代是我见过最棒的。

Well, I mean, that's what's open right now. What's legit? It's 11:30. I know. I think what's the there's, that pizza restaurant, that pizza chain that's they they got the best ice cream sundae that I've ever seen.

这是一个

It's a

巨型的。在这儿？

giant one. Out here?

天啊。我得记住它的名字，它是它是它是一个连锁店，但不是那种大型连锁。

God. I have to remember the name of the it's it's it is a it is a chain, but it's not like a big chain.

现在有些人正听着我们在跑步机上嚼东西的声音生气呢，这些混蛋居然在吃冰淇淋。

People that are upset right now because they're listening, like, on the treadmill, and they're hearing us chewing like, these motherfuckers are gonna get ice cream.

我们正看着披萨和冰淇淋圣代。而人们

We're seeing pizza and ice cream sundaes. While people

却在努力减肥。

try to lose weight.

是啊。汗流浃背。哦，Bukit Apepos。

Yeah. Sweating out. Oh, Bukit Apepos.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

他们有他们有如果你他们有超大份的冰淇淋圣代。他们所有的东西都超大份。是的。太棒了。没错。

They've they've they've if you they've got a gigantic ice cream sundae. Everything they have is gigantic. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah.

我在那儿工作了很长时间。实际上真的很好吃。没开玩笑。太惊艳了。哦，兄弟。

I worked there for a long time. It's actually really good. No kidding. It's amazing. Oh, bro.

他们有那种通心粉，肉酱通心粉，天哪。

They have that rigatoni, the rigatoni with the meat sauce and oh my god.

Rigatoni Dipos很棒。

Rigatoni Dipos is great.

太美味了。而且以食物的分量来说价格非常合理。

It's fantastic. Yeah. And it it's very reasonably priced for the amount of food you

是啊。帕洛阿尔托就有一家。

get. Yeah. There's one in Palo Alto.

分量多得离谱。

Crazy amount of food.

对，真的很好吃。我喜欢墙上那些小照片。

Yeah. It's it's really good. Yeah. I like the little photographs in the

区域。有一家

wall area. There's one

那样的

of those

就在我们旧工作室那条街上。

down the street from our old studio.

在洛杉矶？伍德兰希尔斯那边。

In LA? In Woodland Hills.

对。记得吗？对。对。对。

Yeah. Remember? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

对。是真的。对。对。

Yeah. It's legit. Yeah. Yeah.

对。我以前常带孩子们去洛杉矶The Grove的那家。

Yeah. I used I used to get take my kids to the one at The Grove in LA.

SpaceX附近有什么？你们那边都有些什么？

What, if anything, is out near SpaceX? Like, what do you guys have out there?

在洛杉矶还是这里？

In LA or or here?

这边。

Out here.

我们有Starlink终端工厂。对于Starlink v4终端，我们在这里生产。我们生产所谓的v3终端和v3迷你版。实际上，到目前为止所有终端生产都在洛杉矶完成。我们会继续在洛杉矶生产，但我们也刚在离这里约二十分钟的Bastrop建成了第二家工厂。

We've got the Starlink, terminal factory. So we, for the Starlink v four terminals, we bought them here. We bought the what's called the well, the the v the version three terminals and the version three minis. There's like there's like we we do part of part of the production or, actually, I should say, we've done all of the production of the terminals thus far in LA. And, we'll continue to do production in LA, but we're also and we've just completed a second factory in Bastrop just about twenty minutes from here.

那SpaceX是你们发射的地方。那在德州的哪个位置？

And then SpaceX is where you make the launches. What what part of Texas is that?

Starship的基地位于南德州边境附近，就在格兰德河边上。

Well, the Starship stuff is in South Texas, near the border, just right on the Rio Grande.

你们是怎么选中那个地点的？

And how did you pick that location?

我刚才正在看卫星图像，说到进入轨道，你需要向东发射，这样才能利用地球自转的助力进入轨道。这有点反直觉，达到轨道速度的关键在于你平行于地球表面的速度有多快——就像你绕地球飞驰的速度。其实空间站所在高度的重力几乎和地面相同，用‘空间站之所以在那里’这种说法其实不太准确。

I was just literally looking, at satellite images, and and you for for going to orbit, you kinda need to you wanna launch eastwards so that you can take advantage of Earth rotation to get to orbit. So it's a little counterintuitive that, reaching orbital velocity get getting to orbit is about your speed parallel to the Earth's surface. It's like how fast are you zooming around Earth? It's not a like, the gravity at the at the altitude of the space station is almost the same as it is on the ground. The reason the space station is actually up there is sort of kind of the wrong terminology.

它实际上是以每小时17000英里的速度绕地球飞行。空间站大约每90分钟绕地球一圈。由于地球自转——在赤道处的自转速度约每小时1000英里——越靠近赤道，越能利用地球自转来达到轨道速度。因此选择东海岸发射能更轻松获得轨道速度。

It's it's actually moving around the Earth at 17,000 miles an hour. So the the space station, goes around the Earth at roughly every 90 minutes. So so and and because Earth is is is turning, and the, the speed at which it is turning or the way you experience velocity is is it's moving at, like, roughly a thousand miles an hour at the Equator. So the the closer you are to the Equator, the more you can take advantage of Earth's rotation to reach orbital velocity. So you wanna and so and and since it's rotating eastward, you wanna be on East Coast to get, to make it easier to get to orbital velocity.

所以需要一段朝东偏南、未被占用的海岸线。比如佛罗里达州除了卡纳维拉尔角（政府基地）外，海滩几乎全被住宅占满。而与墨西哥边境接壤的区域恰好是少数未被开发的区域，也不太适合建造度假屋。

So so you need a section of coast that's on the East fairly southward that is not occupied. So, like, most of really almost really all all of Florida except for Cape Canaveral, is, you know, wall to wall houses on the beach. Like, there's almost no section of Florida that that every section of Florida has houses except for Cape Canaveral, which is a government base. So one of the few spots that that that wasn't occupied was the area just adjacent to the border with Mexico. And, it it just wasn't super well suited to, holiday homes.

那里曾有计划开发，但一场飓风摧毁了整个地区，甚至改变了地形，部分地块被海水淹没。这片区域建房条件恶劣，因此闲置。选址还必须是美国领土——由于火箭技术属于尖端武器技术，受出口限制，我们不能随意在其他国家部署。

And, there was at one point a development that was gonna take place, but then a hurricane came and destroyed the entire place And and, in fact, rearranged the land so some of the plots were underwater. So it's it's kind of a it's a it's a tough spot to, build a home, and that's why it was unoccupied. So we needed a piece of and it need to be US territory because we go outside The US. There are export restrictions because rocket technology is an advanced weapons technology. So we can't just, like, you know, arbitrarily go to another country.

所以必须是美国领土、东海岸且偏南的位置。

So it needed to be US land, East Coast, and and fairly southward.

这太有意思了

That's fascinating that

符合这些条件的选址寥寥无几。

rockets few spots that exist like that.

原来火箭属于武器技术范畴。

That rockets fall into the category of weapons technology.

对，洲际弹道导弹就是。

Yeah. Intercontinental ballistic missiles.

仔细想想确实合理。

I mean, it makes sense.