#2083 - 泰勒·谢里丹

手机被锁在那边的包里。

The phone's in a locked up in a yonder bag.

手机关机了。

Phone's off.

好好体验一下人的时刻。

Just experience a human moment.

玩得开心点。

Have a good time.

我认识几个昨晚去你俱乐部的人。

I know a couple of guys that went to your club last night.

他们今天我开车过来时给我打了电话。

They called me when I'm driving up today.

他们问，你去过他的俱乐部吗？

They said, have you been to his club?

我说，还没去过。

Said, not yet.

他们说，他们是来自洛杉矶的经纪人。

And they said, and they're from LA, an agent from LA.

他说，

He said,

他们在里面说的一些话，你在洛杉矶可说不出来。

they say things in there you can't say in LA.

喜剧。

Comedy.

我说，有趣吗？

I said, was it funny?

他说，太好笑了。

Goes, it's hilarious.

我见过最搞笑的事情。

Funniest thing I've ever seen.

他们每一个人都这样。

Every one of them.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，这本来就应该这样。

Well, that's what it's supposed to be.

你知道的。

You know?

路易·C·K说，我们建了一座阿拉莫。

And Louis CK said, we built an Alamo.

他是这么说的。

That's what he said.

他说，本质上是因为你们建了喜剧版的阿拉莫。

He says, essentially, because you've built the comedy Alamo.

他说，我们现在正与网络世界作战。

He goes, this is we're in a war with the cyber world.

他说，而你们给我们建了一座阿拉莫。

And he goes, and you built us an Alamo.

哇。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

但你知道，当我刚来这儿的时候，根本没有什么喜剧俱乐部，所有其他喜剧演员都搬到这里，因为这是唯一能表演单口喜剧的地方。

But that's you know, when I came out here, you know, and there wasn't really a comedy club, and all these other comedians were moving out here because this is the only place we could do stand up.

那是在疫情期间。

It was during the pandemic.

对。

Right.

就好像所有碎片都完美地拼在了一起。

It's like all the pieces fell together perfectly.

仿佛宇宙在每一步都为我们打开了一扇又一扇门，然后突然间，我们就站在这里了。

It was like the universe opened up door after door at every step, and then all of sudden, we're here.

当时我们大约有十五个人，都在一些小小的摇滚俱乐部和电子舞曲俱乐部演出，我们场场爆满，而全国其他地方却完全停摆。

And there was, like, 15 of us, and we're working in these, like, little rock and roll clubs and EDM clubs, and we're doing stand sold out shows, and the rest of the country is completely shut down.

你甚至不能在室内表演脱口秀。

You can't even do stand up indoors.

他们都听说了我们在奥斯汀，然后朗·怀特说：你得开个俱乐部。

And they all heard about Austin that we're all out here, and then Ron White's like, you gotta open up a club.

于是我心想，好吧。

And so I was like, okay.

咱们干脆开个该死的俱乐部吧。

Let's open up a fucking club.

然后我们买了这栋楼，实际上我们之前还买过一栋楼，那栋楼以前是一个邪教的产业。

And then we bought this building and started we actually had a building that we bought before that was owned by a cult.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。

Yeah.

有一部关于这个邪教的纪录片，叫《圣洁之狱》。

There's a there's a documentary on the cult called holy hell.

你应该看看。

You should watch it.

太疯狂了。

Pretty crazy.

这人来自西好莱坞，在韦科事件之后，当‘宗教意识网络’开始打压这些邪教时——韦科大火后，联邦政府杀死了所有人——他们搬到了奥斯汀。

This guy came from West Hollywood, and right after Waco, when the Cult Awareness Network started cracking down all these cults after Waco burned down and the, you know, feds killed everybody, They, moved out to Austin.

这个邪教领袖改了名字，搬到奥斯汀，建了一座剧院，好在他追随者面前跳舞。

The cult member the cult leader changed his name, got a new name, moved to Austin, and built a theater so he could dance in front of his followers.

而我买下那个剧院，就是为了开一家俱乐部。

And and that was the theater I bought to start a club in.

哇。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道的？

You know?

我的表兄弟是韦科的联邦法警，他们认识克里斯。

My cousins were the federal marshals in Waco, and they knew Chris.

他们已经通知了烟酒火器管理局。

And and they had told the ATF.

他们说，我们三天前刚去过那里。

They said, we were just there three days ago.

他们可以是任何身份，但他们是有许可证的。

Like, they could be whatever they are, but they they're permitted up.

他们正沿着35号公路开车，他抬头看见了三架直升机，立刻明白发生了什么。

And they were driving down I 35, and he looked up and saw these three choppers, and he knew exactly what was going on.

等他赶到科雷什庄园时，那些人已经被杀了。

And by the time he got to the Koresh Compound, those guys had already been killed.

但他认识戴维，大概一周或两周后，他去了那里。

But he knew David, and and he went up to the oh, maybe it was a week or two later.

我不记得他们在那里坚持了多久。

I can't remember how long they held up in there.

但他表示，让我去跟科雷什谈谈，看看能不能救出一些妇女和孩子。

But he said, let me just go talk to Koresh and, and see if I can get any of these women and kids out.

他确实去了，走上前敲了前门，带出了大约三十人。

And he did, and he walked up and knocked on the front door and took, like, 30 of them out

哇。

Wow.

就在他们彻底烧毁那个地方之前。

Before they just torched that place.

是的。

Yeah.

他们确实烧了那个地方，却否认了这一点。

They did torch that place, and they denied doing it too.

有坦克的视频录像。

There's video footage of the tank.

坦克直接开进去了，哦，那又怎样？

Tank driving right oh, what does?

开车冲进去，朝建筑物里喷火焰，把所有人都点着了。

Driving in and shooting flames in into the buildings, and they just fucking lit everybody on fire.

是的。

Yeah.

去你的。

Fuck you.

是的。

Yeah.

我根本不知道是什么引发的。

I don't even know what started it.

不会的。

It would no.

当时有一个联邦探员出现，然后他们遭到了射击，或者发生了什么别的事。

It was like one fed showed up, and then they got shot at or some something happened.

我知道，第一批人去袭击那里时，有四个人被杀了。

Well, I know four were killed in the first when they went to hit that place.

我觉得有九个人中枪了。

I think, like, nine got shot.

我知道我们可以调出所有记录来看。

I know we can pull it all up and look.

但是是的。

But Yeah.

你知道吗，那时候人们对恶意行为感到非常恐慌。

You know, at that time, there there was this big panic about malicious.

你知道的？

You know?

因为与此同时，鲁比岭事件也正好发生在差不多的时候。

Because at the same time, got Ruby Ridge happened right around the same time.

没错。

Right.

你当时有这么多事情，FBI正逐渐——不是ATF——在某些地方被教训了，他们正试图挽回形象或防止类似事件发生。

You had all these, and the FBI was just getting kinda not ATF, kinda getting spanked in spots, and and they were trying to clean up their image or or prevent whatever.

他们的使命就是把这些所谓的恶意分子彻底清除。

And that was their mission to sure was, like, get rid of all these malicious.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，你知道，政府还出现了些令人惊讶的过度行为。

And and, you know, surprising little overreach on the governments.

过度行为。

Little overreach.

但每个邪教的开端都是一样的。

But also, like, every cult starts the same way.

起初看起来是个好主意。

Seems like a good idea.

我们要把事情做对。

We're gonna do things right.

我们该怎样解决社会的问题？

We're gonna what's wrong with society?

让我们来解决它。

Let's fix it.

让我们一起团结起来。

Let's all commune together.

它们都是这样开始的。

Well, they all start like this.

首先，你需要一个看起来像吉姆·莫里森那样的人。

First, you you need you need a like a Jim Morrison adjacent looking Right.

wannabe摇滚明星演员。

Wannabe rock star actor.

是的。

Yes.

对吧？

Right?

这个人极度自恋却又魅力十足，能说服一些人说：我需要你的妻子

Who's so wildly narcissistic and yet charming that he can convince some shit like, I need your wife

是的。

Yes.

但我需要

But I need

你来负责花园。

you here to do the garden.

是的。

Yes.

然后他就成了自己的神。

And then he becomes his own god.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

然后他会选一个日子，让所有这些烂事都出问题。

And then he's gonna pick a date where all this shit's gonna go wrong.

世界将终结，而我会向你展示救赎。

The world's gonna end, and I'm gonna show you salvation.

那一天会过去，然后我们需要另一个问题，直到他们搞定这件事，弄来一堆机器

That day's gonna pass, and then we need another problem until they wing that out and get a bunch of machine

枪。

guns.

外面那个家伙叫海梅·戈麦斯，他是个男同性恋色情演员，也是个催眠师。

The guy out here, his name was Jaime Gomez, and he was a gay porn star and a hypnotist.

就是那个家伙开始的，你觉得这事结果会怎样？

That was the guy who start so how do you think that worked out?

所以，大概在2000年或21世纪初，有一个人离开了这个教派，发了一封群发邮件，内容大概是：嘿。

So so one guy in, like, 2000 or the early two thousands sent out he left the cult and sent out a mass email that was like, hey.

这 guy 过去十年一直催眠我、和我发生关系。

This guy's been hypnotizing me and fucking me for the last ten years.

然后大家都说：我还以为只有我这样呢。

And then everybody was like, I thought it was just me.

就是这个人。

That's the guy.

但当他年轻的时候，

But when he was young,

当他看起来像模特的时候。

when he got say, looked like a model.

哦，他年轻的时候很漂亮。

Oh, when he was young, he was beautiful.

他很漂亮。

He was beautiful.

他有一副雕塑般的身材。

He had, like, a chiseled body.

他是一名瑜伽教练。

He was a yoga instructor.

我想这就是他开始的方式，他是个演员。

I think that's how he start he was an actor.

他出演过《罗斯玛丽的婴儿》。

He was in Rosemary's Baby.

他在《罗斯玛丽的婴儿》里只是个群演。

He was like an extra in Rosemary's Baby.

但当他开始建立邪教时，最初只是个瑜伽班，他非常有魅力，说服了这些人生活中还有另一种方式。

But he when he started the cult, it really just kinda started out as a a yoga class, and he was very charismatic and convinced these people that there was a different way to live.

就这样，我确定你看过《狂野国度》。

And and, like, just like that, I'm sure you've seen Wild Wild Country.

没有。

No.

你看过吗？

You ever seen that?

天啊。

Oh my god.

太棒了。

It's fucking amazing.

这是Netflix出品的一部剧集，讲述了一个邪教占领俄勒冈州一个小镇的故事。

It's a Netflix series about this cult that took over a town in Oregon.

是的。

Yes.

我知道什么是

I do know what

这个。

this is.

他们毒害了镇上所有人。

They poisoned everyone in the town.

他们把无家可归者运进来以便投票。

They shipped in homeless people so that they could vote.

他们把无家可归者带进邪教，让他们成为社区一员并参与投票，然后就这样接管了整个该死的小镇。

So they brought they they took homeless people, and they brought them into the cult so that they would be a part of the community and they could vote, and then they just took over the fucking town.

一旦他们做到了，就把无家可归者赶了出去，这简直太疯狂了

And then once they did that, they kicked the homeless people out, and it's it's a wild

如果我写这个剧本，人们会说这太荒谬了。

If I wrote that screenplay, people would say that that's ridiculous.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

有很多。

There's a lot

这种人很多。

of those.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

有很多这种人。

There's a lot of those.

关于1883年最疯狂的事情是，你根本不需要任何夸张的修饰。

Well, that's the craziest thing about eighteen eighty three is that you don't have to do any dramatic embellishment.

根本不需要对事实进行任何歪曲。

There's no doesn't have to be any any fucking with the truth.

这 literally 就是当时发生的事。

It's that is literally what went down.

那些人真的来到了这里。

Those people literally came here.

你之前在电话里告诉我，跨越大洋过来的人中有多少比例根本不会说英语？

They do you were telling me on the phone that what percentage of the people that that made the trek across couldn't even speak English?

你知道吗，大概有40%。

You know, it something like 40%.

你知道，他们当时从各地赶来，而我们政府之所以这么做，是因为内战后我们需要人手，原因多种多样。

You know, they used to come in from they they would come into and, of course, what what our government was doing was we needed people for a multitude of reasons, after the civil war.

当时有太多劳动力在战争中丧生。

So many of the workforce had been killed.

你知道吧？

You know?

我们已知的就有一百多万士兵阵亡，还不知道有多少平民丧生。

One point something million soldiers died that that we know of, and we don't know how many other civilians.

所以我们需要人。

So we needed people.

我们需要人去开发西部，因为天定命运论基本上就是说：嘿。

We needed people to settle the West because manifest destiny basically said, hey.

你知道，我们从 whoever 那儿买下的那片土地——大概是法国，路易斯安那购地。

We you know, there's all this land we bought from whoever we bought it from, France, I guess, the Louisiana Purchase.

但我们没法定居，因为每次我们试图去，拉科塔人或科曼奇人就把我们打得落花流水。

And we can't settle it because every time we we try the Lakota or the Comanche, kick the shit out of us.

所以我们应该送一大批中欧和东欧人过去，让他们置身其中。

So we should send a bunch of Central Europeans and Eastern Europeans over there and let them get in the middle of it.

在所有这些情况下，如果你在电脑上搜索一下，你就能查到。

And so in all of these and you can you can look up if you were to put it into the computer.

你可以找到他们当时在罗马尼亚、挪威，当然还有爱尔兰的报纸上发布的所有宣传册和广告。

You can pull up all of these pamphlets they would put out and ads they would put out in newspapers in Romania and Norway, obviously, Ireland.

他们在各地都这么宣传，比如德国，说：来吧，免费的土地。

They did it everywhere, Germany, and said, come free land.

是的。

Yeah.

来领取你们的免费土地吧。

Come get your free land.

当我开始研究这个话题时，发现有些人来自那些游泳是违法的地方。

And when I started researching it, you know, there were people that would come from areas where it was against the law to swim.

他们不被允许游泳。

They were not allowed to swim.

哇。

Wow.

根本没人会游泳。

There weren't no one knew how to swim.

游泳是违法的。

It was against the law to swim.

游泳是违法的。

The law to swim.

什么？！

What the fuck?

这太荒谬了，真的太疯狂了。让我印象深刻的是，昨晚我花了很多时间思考那个节目。

That seems so ins what seems so insane, what what really struck me I mean, I I did a lot of thinking about that show last night.

就像，我追完了整季。

Like, it ended I did my binge.

我是在凌晨两点左右追完的。

I ended the binge at, like, 02:00 in the morning.

你知道的，在夜里，我会有一些最疯狂的想法，因为家里所有人都睡着了。

And, you know, at nighttime, I do some of my most fucked up thinking because everyone is asleep in in my house.

只有我一个人，我通常都在别人睡着的时候写作。

It's just me, and I I I generally do most of my writing when everyone's asleep.

我只是在想，那是140年前的事了。

And I was just thinking, that's a 140 ago.

这算不了什么。

That's nothing.

我56岁了。

I'm 56 years old.

我上高中的时候是1983年。

When I was in high school, it was in 1983.

所以那是一百年前了。

So that was a 100 ago.

我当时是高二学生。

I was a sophomore in high school.

所以一百年前算不了什么。

So I was a hundred years is nothing.

再往前一百年，你得靠一辆该死的马车横跨全国，才能获得免费的土地。

Hundred years before that, you make your way across the country on a fucking wagon, and you get free land.

是的。

Yeah.

一百年。

A hundred years.

这是一段非常短暂的时间。

That's so short a period of time.

我们很难真正体会到，如此短的时间内，这个国家发生了多么疯狂的变革。

It's so hard for us to really appreciate how recent that is and how how fucking insane the change in this country over such a short period of time has been.

迅猛的。

Metioric.

迅猛的。

Metioric.

我最近一两天读到一些东西，可能会记错，但1937年离1984年比2023年离1984年更近，类似这样的话。

I just read something in the last day or two that and I'm gonna get it wrong, but 1937 is closer to 1984 than 2023 is to '84 or something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

但如果你想想，是的。

But if you think about the Yeah.

从1984年到2023年之间的差距，还有1984年那时的样子，我当时活着，你也活着，到现在。

The gap between 1984 and 2023 and then what '84 was like, I was alive, you were alive, to now.

这看起来并不像有那么巨大的变化。

It doesn't seem like that dramatic a a change.

显然，现在有了互联网，但你那时候已经有汽车了。

Obviously, there is Internet, but you still had cars.

你那时候也有电话。

You had phones.

你不能随身带着，但你确实有电话。

You couldn't take them with you, but you had them.

那1937年呢？

But 1937?

我们甚至都还没发明青霉素。

We haven't even we haven't even made penicillin yet.

对。

Right.

这才四十年。

That's just forty years.

是的。

Yeah.

堑壕战。

Trench warfare.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

第一次世界大战。

World War one.

不。

No.

他们来到了这里。

These these they came over here.

他们不会说这种语言。

They didn't speak the language.

他们对这片土地一无所知，对水域也一无所知；顺便说一句，你可以放心，罗马尼亚时报上的那则广告根本没提到，那里已经有人居住，你一到就会被他们杀死。

They knew nothing about the land, knew nothing about the water, had no it did by the way, you can be rest assured it did not say in that advertisement in the Romanian times, there's other people who already live there who will kill you when you show up.

广告里根本没提这些事。

It didn't mention any of that.

他们直到抵达加尔维斯顿才听说印第安人。

They didn't hear about the Indians till they got to Galveston.

你知道，他们正在购买补给品。

And, you know, they're buying their supplies.

你需要一把枪吗？

You need a gun?

那你为什么要买枪？

Well, what do you need a gun?

因为印第安人啊。

Well, the Indians.

谁？

The who?

你在说什么？

What are you talking about?

印第安人是谁？

Who are Indians?

你会慢慢知道的。

Well, you're gonna find out.

是的。

Yeah.

那是《夏日之月》帝国的一部分，你知道，这些人刚建立家园，完全一无所知。

That was a a part of empire of the summer moon, you know, that these folks had just established these homesteads and had no idea.

科曼奇人会出现并把他们屠杀殆尽。

And the Comanches would show up and just slaughter them.

他们根本不知道。

They had no idea.

他们根本不知道，是的。

They had no idea Yeah.

他们甚至没意识到这会是个问题，只能边走边摸索。

That there was even a a concern, and they had to figure it out along the way.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，你知道的，你在那本书里读到过。

And that, you know, and you read in that book.

从军事角度来看，纳科纳决定一路袭击到加尔维斯顿，这真是令人惊叹的壮举。

And and from a military standpoint, it's such a just an impressive achievement that Nakona decided he was gonna raid all the way to Galveston.

他率军穿过被焚毁的奥斯汀，一路行军至加尔维斯顿。

And he marched through burned Austin, went all the way to Galveston.

所有人都登上自己的船，出海观看他焚烧加尔维斯顿。

Everybody got on their boats, went out on their boats and watched him burn Galveston.

然后他们进城洗劫了所有商店，找到了这些阳伞。

Then they went in and looted all the stores and found these parasols.

你知道，你可以坐在那儿遮挡阳光。

You know, you could sit there and block the sun.

而科曼奇人认为这简直是太聪明了。

And the Comanche thought that's the freaking smartest thing.

真希望我们当时有布料可以这么做。

I wish we'd had fabric to do that with.

于是所有的勇士们都拿起了这些降落伞。

So all the braves took these parachutes.

当他们策马离去时，成千上万的科曼奇战士手持各种颜色的阳伞，

And when they rode off, there's thousands of Comanche warriors with parasols of all these different colors,

遮挡着阳光，保护肩膀。

blocks getting the sun off their shoulders.

逃跑时还带着雨伞。

Running away with umbrellas.

是的。

Yeah.

这太疯狂了。

That's insane.

但那画面真是令人恐惧。

But what a what a terrifying visual that

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

哦，我的意思是，在读完《夏日之王的帝国》之前，我根本不知道这些。

Oh, I mean, I had no idea until I read Empire of the Summer Moon.

然后作者出现了。

And then the author come in.

他叫什么名字来着？

What is his name again?

S·G·格温？

S g Gwen?

S是这个名字吗？

S is that it?

超级棒的家伙，真的。

Great great fucking guy.

他搬到德克萨斯后才了解到。

And he found out when he moved to Texas.

他搬到这里后，开始研究德克萨斯的历史。

Like, he he moved here and then was researching Texas history.

西万。

Sicuan.

当他搬到这里，开始研究德克萨斯历史时，他简直惊呆了。

And when he moved here and he was researching Texas, then he was like, oh my god.

我怎么从来不知道这些事？

Like, how how do I not know about all this?

我怎么从来没听说过这些事？

How do I not know what this happened?

我怎么从来没听说过

How do I know not know

关于德克萨斯游骑兵是如何成立的，为什么需要他们，以及当时发生了什么。

about the Texas Rangers and how they were established and why they they needed them and what what went down.

是的。

Yeah.

那就是狂野的西部。

It was the it was the Wild West.

对。

Yeah.

这就是德克萨斯如此疯狂的原因之一。

Well, it's one of reasons why Texas is such a crazy place.

这简直像是最后的抵抗。

It's like this was kind of the last stand.

是的。

Yeah.

而且德克萨斯曾经独立存在了十四年、十三年，至今那种独立精神依然深深植根于这里。

And and Texas was its own nation for, you know, fourteen years, thirteen years, and it and it's still, you know, that independence is still pretty embedded in it.

是的。

Yeah.

他们想把它重新列入投票表决中，以

They wanna put it back on the ballot to

每年。

Every year.

这个实验没有成功。

This experiment hasn't worked.

是的。

Yeah.

但当你想到美国直到1776年才成立，这在人类历史上其实非常近期。

Well, what's crazy is when you think about The United States only being established in 1776 and how recent that is in human history.

但如今再建立一个新国家的想法似乎荒谬至极。

But the idea of a new country being established today seems insane.

就像，根本不可能。

Like, there's no one no way.

不可能。

Impossible.

他们有一部分俄勒冈州的人想脱离，并

Not gonna you know, they there's part of Oregon wants to secede and

是的。

Yeah.

并加入爱达荷州。

And and join Idaho.

加利福尼亚州北部，洪堡县及其周边地区有一片区域。

There's there's there's a section up there around Humboldt County and and up in that area in California.

他们也想要同样的事情。

They want the same thing.

这可以理解，因为你看看俄勒冈州东部，几乎所有人都从事某种形式的农业。

And and it's understandable because you have people who you know, you take the Eastern Half Of Oregon, virtually all of them are in some form of agriculture.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

他们要么养牛，要么种地，要么做别的农活。

They're ranching or they're farming or they're doing something.

加利福尼亚北部那个地区也是一样。

Same with with with that part of Northern California.

你在做伐木。

You're doing timber.

你在种植东西，不管是大麻还是别的什么。

You're growing something, whether it's weed or whether it's whatever.

你在从事某种农业活动。

You're doing something agricultural.

但当你来到这些大城市，人们根本不知道他们的食物是从哪里来的。

And then you come to these big urban centers and where people do not understand where their food comes from.

对。

Right.

我读过一篇文章。

I read an article.

那是我住在洛杉矶当演员的时候。

This is when I lived in LA as an actor.

当时引发了一场轩然大波。

And there was some uproar.

有个啦啦队员去打猎，射杀了一头鹿之类的。

Some cheerleader had gone hunting and killed a deer or something.

照片登上了报纸，或者以某种方式流传开来，结果一群人彻底炸了。

And the picture made it in the paper or somehow made it somewhere, and there was this massive people went nuts.

我翻着报纸，读着读者来信。

And I'm flipping through the paper and and I'm reading the letters to the editor.

那些信就在报纸的前面部分。

It's kind of there in the front.

所有信都在谈论那个女孩，还附着她的照片。

And they were all about this girl and there's a picture of her.

其中一个人说，所有猎人都应该被处死。

And one of them said that all hunters should be killed.

他们怎么敢出去猎杀那只动物？

How dare they go out and kill that animal?

他们为什么不能去超市买现成的食物呢？

Why can't they just go get their food at the grocery store where it's made?

不。

No.

有人气得写了这封信，反复读了几遍后寄了出去，而报纸刊登它时，我怀疑并不是出于什么讽刺意味。

Someone got mad enough to write that letter and wrote it and reread it and sent it, and then it was printed not from a sense of irony from that paper, I doubt.

我记得当时心想，天啊。

And and I remember thinking, god.

人们根本不知道食物是从哪里来的。

People don't even know where it comes from.

他们完全不了解把食物端上餐桌需要付出多少代价。

They have no idea what it takes to put food on the table.

任何种类的食物。

Any kind of food.

不。

No.

我不在乎你是不是素食者。

I don't care if you're vegan or not.

对。

Right.

他们根本不知道。

They had no idea.

给你了，你只需要工作然后花钱。

Been given to you and all you have to do is work and then spend your money.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我曾经在别人吃肉的时候和他们交谈，说他们永远不可能去狩猎。

I've had conversations with people while they're eating meat saying I can never hunt.

就像，我不知道你怎么能做到。

Like, I don't know how you do it.

你在说什么呢？

Like, what are you talking about?

你正在吃肉。

You're eating meat.

你只是雇了一个超市的杀手。

You just hired a supermarket hitman.

是的。

Yeah.

就像你只是把执行过程外包了。

Like You just you just exported the execution.

是的。

Yeah.

我们太脱节了，这就是为什么在疫情期间食物供应短暂中断时，观察到狩猎人数大幅增加如此有趣。

It's it's it's we're so detached, and that was why it was fascinating to watch this massive uptick during the pandemic where where the food supply got cut off for a while.

是的，确实如此。

And, you know, it was Yeah.

这非常奇怪，很多人开始去打猎。

It was very weird, and a lot of people got into hunting.

很多人对它产生了兴趣，而且人数大幅增加。

A lot of people got interested in it, and there was a big uptick.

或者开始想要承担一些责任，采取某种控制措施。

Or started to or started to wanna take some responsibility, some kind of control measure.

种植

Grow

食物。

food.

无论是他们在后院养鸡，还是去牧场，都有很多地方可以直接向消费者销售。

Whether they get chickens in their backyard, whether they they come to a ranch, and there's plenty of places where you can buy it direct to consumer.

当我想起这一点时，是的。

You know, when that hit me Yeah.

我冷冻了三头牛和两只鹿。

I've got three steers and two deer in the freezer.

你知道的？

You know?

我有六十只鸡。

I've got 60 chickens.

我有一个温室。

I've got a greenhouse.

我没有

I didn't

是的。

Yeah.

我一点都没耽误。

I didn't I didn't miss a beat.

是的。

Yeah.

如果可能的话，这才是该有的生活方式。

Well, that's the way to live if you could.

是的。

Yeah.

但大多数人会说，不是每个人都能这样生活。

But most people are like, well, not everybody can live that way.

对。

Right.

想办法实现吧。

Figure out how you can.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

你可以。

You can.

你可以。

You can.

我在洛杉矶做到了。

I did it in LA.

真的吗？

Did you?

我用了五年时间，吃的所有东西都是野生捕捞的，或者直接从农场购买的——如果是蔬菜或水果的话。

For five years, I went everything I eat was wild caught or it was grown from I bought it from the farm if it was a vegetable or fruit.

在洛杉矶，做到这一点其实并不难。

And in in LA, it really wasn't that hard to do.

农贸市场之类的

Farmers markets and stuff like

农贸市场啊，你甚至可以去农贸市场买到野生捕捞的鱼。

markets for heck, you could even get, you know, you could go get wild caught fish at the farmers market.

对。

Right.

你可以去问清楚这是哪个农场种的？

You could go get what farm grew this?

好吧，你的羽衣甘蓝或者你想要的任何东西都在那儿。

Well, there's your kale or whatever you want.

全都就在那儿。

It's all right there.

其实并没有那么难。

Like, it's it was actually not that difficult.

我回到德克萨斯后，会去打猎一个周末，比如打三只鹿，就够吃一整年了。

And I'd come back to Texas and hunt for a weekend, and that was by, you know, go shoot three deer, and that's a year's worth of food.

对。

Right.

一年三头动物。

Three three animals for a year.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

如果你能办到的话，那是最佳情况，但大多数人已经完全脱离了这种生活方式，深深陷在城市世界里，那里没人种任何东西。

That's that's best case scenario if you can pull that off, but most people are just so disconnected from it and so connected to the urban world where no one's growing anything.

所有东西都得靠卡车运进来。

Everything has to be brought in by trucks.

我刚读了一个故事。

I was reading this, this story.

有一本书叫《幻觉的消解》，讲的是疫苗的引入，以及二十世纪早期的流行病。

It's a it's a book called, dissolving illusions, and it's all about, the introduction of vaccines, and it's about the pandemic diseases of the early twentieth century.

他们谈论的是在汽车出现之前，人们在这些城市里生活的可怕条件，因为那时候没有公交车。

And they were talking about just the horrific conditions that people lived in in these urban cities before cars because they there was no buses.

那么，你们是怎么获取食物的？

So how are you getting food?

你们是怎么得到蔬菜的？

How are you getting vegetables?

这些东西是怎么运进这些城市的？

How are getting all these things into these cities?

这些人长期营养不良，几乎被饿死，住在成千上万人共用厕所的地方。

These people lived with terrible nutrition, basically starved to death, living in places where there's outhouses that were shared by thousands of people.

所有人都挤在这些公寓楼里。

Everyone's stuffed in these tenement buildings.

他们呼吸着污浊的空气。

They're all breathing congested air.

人人都在生病。

Everyone's getting diseases.

没有药物可以治疗他们，没有抗生素，所有人都完蛋了。

There's no no drugs to treat them, no antibiotics to treat them, and everyone's fucked.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

你知道，这种情况已经持续了整整一千二百年。

You know, these and it's been that way, by the way, for twelve hundred years.

只要一有。

As soon as Yeah.

大规模的城市地区，你知道，一旦它们兴起，看看鼠疫就知道了。

Massive urban areas, you know, as soon as they sprouted up, I mean, look at look at the plague.

是的。

Yeah.

就是这样。

That's what that is.

这就是它的来源。

That's where it comes from.

那是

That's a

这是一种跳蚤传播的疾病，因为你和老鼠住得太过靠近。

flea born illness that you get because you're living in such close proximity to rats.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

为什么有这么多老鼠？

And why are there so many rats?

嗯，因为这里有这么多害虫和污秽，

Well, because there's that much vermin and filth and

是的。

Yeah.

供它们觅食的垃圾。

Waste for them to feast on.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这是大自然平衡事物的方式。

I mean, it's nature's way of balancing things out.

大自然会说：好吧，这真是个该死的问题。

Nature's like, well, this is a fucking problem.

你们在这里做的这一切，根本不是正确的方式。

Whatever you guys are doing here is not the way to do it.

所以是的。

So Yeah.

好好享受吧。

Have fun with this.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这还涉及到美洲原住民。

It's also with the with the Native Americans.

你知道的，看看那些命令，看看他们中的任何一个。

You know, you look at the command, you look at any of them.

是疾病导致的，嗯。

It was the disease that Mhmm.

你知道，从第一批清教徒开始。

You know, when when from the first pilgrims.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所有这些欧洲人带过来的东西。

All these things that that Europeans brought over.

我的意思是，这直接造成了毁灭性打击。

I mean, it just decimated.

我认为霍乱杀死了百分之六十的科曼奇人。

I think cholera killed sixty percent of the Comanche.

是的。

Yeah.

他们说，北美地区死亡的人中，有百分之九十是死于疾病。

They said that ninety percent of the people killed in North America were killed by diseases.

百分之九十的原住民。

Ninety percent of the Native Americans.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这个故事一直没有被正确地讲述。

And that that story hasn't been told properly.

你知道的。

You know?

这正是我特别欣赏《1883》的地方。

And that's what I I really appreciated about 1883.

你的意思是，这基本上是美洲原住民帝国的终结。

It's like, you you talked about I mean, this was, like, the end of the Native American empire, essentially.

那时候还剩下一些野牛。

This was when there were still a little bit of buffalo left.

他们还在把印第安人迁往保留地。

There's still you know, they're moving Indians to reservations.

那些在外的印第安人则在抵抗。

Then the Indians that were out, they were resisting it.

你知道的。

You know?

然后这些人正试图乘坐这该死的马车队穿越整个国家。

And it's just and then these people are trying to make their way in this fucking wagon train across the country.

那些试图这么做的人中，有多少比例死去了？

What what percentage of those people died that were trying to do that?

我的意思是，我不清楚在俄勒冈小径上，你开车经过时是否到处都能看到标记。

I mean, I don't know that there's any anywhere along the Oregon Trail, you could you can drive along or, you know, there's markers just everywhere.

到处都是。

Everywhere.

尤其是当你往怀俄明州更北边走，穿过兰德切断点和南隘口时，那些有标记的只是其中一部分。

And especially the further up you get into Wyoming and the further you start getting through, like, the Lander cutoff in South Pass, then they're just and that's the ones that, you know, that got a marker.

是的。

Yeah.

那你怎么知道呢？

So it's how do you know?

对。

Right.

你知道，摩门教会用推车带了很多人在没有足够钱购买完整马车的情况下出行，尽管他们原本承诺提供马车。

You know, the handcart the Mormon church brought a lot of people out and they didn't have a lot of money, enough money to give them full wagons even though that's what they promised.

于是他们制作了这些手推车，人们从俄亥俄州的某个地方出发，一路推着车前往犹他州。

And so they made these handcarts that people would pull from wherever they took off from somewhere in Ohio, to try and get to to Utah.

这些人就用手拉着这些推车。

And so these people pulled them by hand.

他们把妻子、行李、孩子等东西放在车上，然后像没有马的战车一样，自己拉着这种双轮车前进。

They put their wife and their gear and their kids or whatever and then they'd pull them, these two wheeled carts like chariots without a horse.

有一年冬天，他们出发得太晚，结果被困在了冬季。

And, you know, one winter, they left too late and got caught in the winter.

关键在于，如果你在7月4日前没能到达怀俄明州的某个地点，你就不可能赶到了。

And the whole trick was if you didn't make it to the certain spot in Wyoming by July 4, you were not gonna make it.

你会被困在途中，然后死去。

You were gonna get caught in the past, you're gonna die.

有一年，大约有两万五千人死在了路上。

And something like twenty five thousand people died in one year.

真是令人麻木的统计数据。

Just mind numbing statistics.

疯狂。

Insane.

是的。

Yeah.

疯狂。

Insane.

有趣的是，早期关于西部的电影根本没涉及过这些。

And it's it's so interesting that the the early films on the West, they were they never covered that.

早期关于西部的电影都是一些肤浅的表面作品，比如西部片，牛仔对抗印第安人，意大利式西部片之类的。

The early films on the West were like these really sort of shallow surface films that were fun movies, you know, cowboys versus Indians, the spaghetti westerns, and that kind of stuff.

但没人真正了解当时究竟发生了什么。

But no one had any sort of real understanding of what actually went down.

没错。

No.

你没有。

You didn't.

获得免费土地的概念，你可以去耕种，顺便说一句，一无所有。

The notion of getting free land, that you could go farm, with, by the way, nothing.

你要带着一无所有去某个地方。

You're gonna go somewhere with nothing.

比如，那里没有任何商店。

Like, there's no stores.

你得自己制造一切。

You're gonna have to make everything.

你得自己搞定所有事情。

You have to figure it all out on your own.

谁会选这样的生活？

Who would choose that?

不是成功的铁匠，也不是在马里兰或别处拥有舒适家园的人。

Not a successful blacksmith, not somebody that's got a nice comfortable home in Maryland or wherever.

为什么呢？

And why why?

你为什么要这么做？

Why would you do that?

你必须别无选择。

You have to have no other option.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

所有从欧洲各国过来的人，他们并不是为了冒险而来。

All the people that came over from from whatever European nation they came from, they didn't come for an adventure.

对。

Right.

他们是因为快饿死了才来的。

They came because they were fucking starving.

我的家人因为马铃薯饥荒从爱尔兰来到这里。

My family came over from Ireland because of the potato famine.

他们并不是真的想来。

They didn't they didn't want to.

他们别无选择。

They had to.

对。

Right.

他们当时快死了，所以不得不来。

They were dying, so they had to come.

所以每个人都是因为绝望才来的。

So that's why everyone came, desperation.

绝望才是推动西部开发的动力，而这种动力源自一种名为天定命运的、极其残酷且阴险的理念，那是些政客们提出的，他们说：嘿。

Like, desperation is what settled the West fueled by a manifest destiny which was which was a cruel, very cruel, you know, insidious idea that a bunch of politicians had that says, hey.

我们可以派军队过去，直接开战。

We can either send the army out there and just go to war.

我们一直这么干，结果被揍得惨不忍睹，因为直到连发步枪出现之前，拉科塔人和科曼奇人都是如此。

And we've been doing that, and we've been getting the shit handed to us because the Lakota were until the repeating rifle came around, the Lakota and the Comanche Yeah.

阿拉帕霍人，我的意思是，他们在马术上的技艺根本没法比。

The Arapaho, even the I mean, they've did not have their skill level on a horse.

他们的箭矢实际上比我们的单发火枪更有效。

Their their arrows were actually more effective than our single shot muskets.

他们简直就是一支更强大的军队，并且一直保持这种优势。

Like, they were a superior army and and stayed that way.

直到我们开始袭击那些勇士和士兵都不在的村庄时，情况才开始改变。

It wasn't until we started sacking villages when the braves were gone, when their soldiers were gone.

当这种肮脏的手段开始使用，局势才逐渐扭转。

We when that dirty shit started, then it started turning the tide.

当我们摧毁了他们的食物来源时，这一切就结束了。

And then when we killed the food source, that was the end of it.

是的。

Yeah.