#2151 - 里兹万·维尔克

我们只是还没打开盒子，所以还不知道而已。

We just haven't figured it out yet until we open the box.

这看起来确实像是这样。

That's what it would seem like.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

这会是常识性的观点。

That would be, like, common sense point of view.

对吧？

Right?

但过去将近一百年来，所有物理学家都在告诉我们，从二十世纪二十年代量子力学刚开始成形时就是这样：实际情况并非如此。

But what all the physicists have been telling us now for almost a hundred years, right, going back to the nineteen twenties when quantum mechanics first started to get formalized, is that that's not actually the case.

实际情况是，你有一个概率波，猫活着或死亡的概率是不同的。

That what happens is you have this probability wave and that there are different probabilities of the cat being alive or dead.

当然，他们当时谈论的并不是猫。

Now, of course, they weren't talking about cats.

猫这个例子可能太简单了。

Was The cat is maybe too simplistic.

它就像一个替代表达。

It's like a placeholder.

你知道我说的是什么意思吧？

You you know what I'm saying?

就像是

Like, it's

是的。

Yeah.

这是一种让人从宏观层面理解这个问题的方式。

It's it's a it's a way for somebody to think about this at a high level.

所以薛定谔，作为量子力学的奠基人之一，通过他的波动方程，提出这个想法其实是认为整个理论很荒谬。

So Schrodinger, who is one of the the founders of quantum mechanics through his wave equation, he he basically came up with this because he thought the whole idea was ridiculous.

他说，你看。

He's like, look.

你不可能有一只既活着又死了的猫。

You can't have a cat that's both alive and dead.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

所以这个实验虽然荒谬，但现在却成了我们解释量子力学这种奇特现象的方式。

So so this is a ridiculous experiment except it's become the the way in which we explain this weird effect about quantum mechanics now.

量子力学中的奇特现象是，事物可以同时处于运动和静止状态，这就是叠加态。

And the weird effect in quantum mechanics is things can be both moving and still at the same time, which is superposition.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

或者它们可以处于两种不同的状态，比如运动和静止、活着或死亡，其实他们讨论的是粒子。

Or they can be in two different states, which could be moving and still could be alive or dead, or they're they're really talking about particles.

所以它可能是左旋或右旋。

So then it could be, like, left rotated or right located or right rotated.

所以你有这些所有属性，但它们可以处于不同的状态。

So you've got all these properties, but they can be in different they can be in different states.

顺便说一下，这就是量子计算的基础。

And this is the basis for quantum computing, by the way.

你可能听说过

And you probably heard about

是的。

Yes.

新的量子计算机正在

New quantum computers that

问世，我听说过，但我完全不懂。

are coming I have, but I totally don't understand it.

所以这和薛定谔的猫是一回事，只不过我们这里讨论的是一个信息比特。

What so it's the same thing as Schrodinger's cat, whereas we have a bit of information.

对吧？

Right?

那么一个比特可以取哪些值呢？

So what are the values that a bit can have?

就是零或者一。

It's like zero or one.

就这么简单。

That's it.

这是信息的基本单位。

That's like the basic unit of information.

而一个比特只能取这两个值中的一个。

And the bit can only have one of those values.

比如在我的iPhone或笔记本电脑上，如果你一直深入到硬件层面，就可以看到寄存器。

Like on my iPhone or my laptop, if you look down all the way down into hardware, you can look at the registers.

当我还在麻省理工学院的时候，我们实际上在课堂上从零开始组装了一台计算机。

Like when I was at when I was at MIT, we actually built a computer in class from scratch.

你会看到，有些电压表示这是1，或者这是0。

You'll see there's some voltage that says this is a one or this is a zero.

对吧？

Right?

就是这样。

That's it.

所有的计算，我们所做的一切视频流媒体，所有这些都归结为一个比特只能是0或1。

All the computing, everything we're doing with video streaming, like all that stuff comes down to having a bit that can be either a zero or a one.

它必须是其中之一。

It has to be one or the other.

它不能同时是两者。

It can't be both.

对。

Right.

所以量子计算有被称为量子比特的东西。

So quantum computing has these things called qubits.

好的。

Okay.

Q-u-b-i-t-s，也就是量子比特，就像薛定谔的猫。

Q u b I t s, qubits, which a qubit is like Schrodinger's cat.

它不仅仅取值为一或零。

It doesn't just have a value of a one or a zero.

它处于叠加态。

It is in superposition.

叠加态意味着包含所有可能状态的集合。

Superposition means a superset of all the positions that are possible.

那么一个比特有多少种可能性呢？

So how many possibilities are there in in a bit too?

对吧？

Right?

零和一。

Zero and one.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以量子比特是比特的叠加态，意味着在被测量之前，它同时具有零和一两个值。

So a qubit is a superposition of a bit, which means it has both values, zero and one, until someone measures that bit.

因此，理论上，这正是量子计算机能够解决那些呈指数级增长的复杂问题的原因。

And so theoretically, that's what allows quantum computers to solve problems that are that grow exponentially, that are really big.

我们仍处于早期阶段，但如果你想想像破解加密这样的指数级增长问题，传统计算机也能做到。

And we're still in the early stages, but if you think of an exponential growth problem like like cracking encryption, It can be done by a regular computer.

你可以让你的笔记本电脑去尝试破解。

You can set up your laptop to to crack.

它可能需要一千年左右的时间。

It'll take, like, a thousand years or something.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Mhmm.

因为你必须遍历每一个可能的值。

Because you have to go through every single possible value.

所以如果你有64位，那就是2的64次方个值，这个数字非常庞大。

So if you have 64 bits, that's, like, two to the 64 values, which is which is huge.

事实上，有一个关于印度国王和下棋的智者的老故事，说明了指数增长时这个数字会变得多么巨大。

In fact, there's an old story about the the Indian king and the the wise man who played chess that illustrates the story of how big that number gets when you have exponential growth.

有一位国王喜欢下棋，但没人愿意再和他下棋了，因为他总是赢。

So there was a king who liked to play chess, and no one wanted to play chess with him anymore because he, you know, he kept winning.

最后，来了一个智者。

And finally, there's this wise man.

他说：请和我下盘棋吧。

He's like, please play chess with me.

智者说：好吧。

And the wise man says, okay.

我跟你下棋。

I'll play chess with you.

如果我赢了，你就在棋盘的第一个格子给我一粒米。

If if I win for the first square on the chessboard, you give me one grain of rice.

第二个格子给我两粒米，再下一个格子给我四粒米，然后是八粒米。

And then the second square on the chessboard, you give me you double that, two grains of rice, and you double that to four grains of rice and six grains of rice.

所以每个格子都是前一个的两倍。

So we're doubling in each square.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

国王说：好吧。

King's like, okay.

当然。

Sure.

你知道的，没什么大不了的。

You know, no big deal.

只是一些大米而已。

It's just a bunch of rice.

对吧？

Right?

结果当这位智者赢了的时候，到了第64格（因为棋盘有64个格子），所需的米粒数量已经超过了印度全国能容纳的总量。

And so it turns out when the wise man won, by the time you get to two to the 64, because there's 64 squares on the chessboard, that basically it was more rice than would fit in all of India.

对吧？

Right?

这是一个指数级的问题。

That's an exponential problem.

它增长得太快了。

It just grows so fast.

而它之所以增长这么快，是因为可能性太多了。

And the reason it grows is there are too many possibilities.

对吧？

Right?

但现在出现了一种新东西，叫做量子比特，它能同时处于两种状态。

But now this new thing called the qubit's coming along, and the qubit has both possibilities at the same time.

所以如果你有64个比特，并考虑这64个比特的所有可能取值，那么可能的组合数就和我们之前说的米粒数量一样。

So if you have 64 bits and you take all the possible values of those 64 bits, you've got the same number of possibilities as the grains of rice we talked about.

就是2的64次方。

It's two to the 64.

这是一个非常大的数字。

It's a very big number.

它是180亿亿，对吧？

It's it's 18 quintillion, right, is the number.

有一款游戏叫《无人深空》。

There's a game called No Man's Sky.

我不知道你有没有玩过。

I don't know if you ever played it.

不。

No.

所以它变得有名是因为它是最早拥有近乎无限数量行星的游戏之一。

So it was it became famous because they were it was one of the first games to have an almost infinite number of planets that

哦，是那个生成整个宇宙的游戏吗？

you Oh, is this the game where it just creates a universe?

是的。

Yeah.

它有点无聊。

It It was kinda boring.

听说过。

Heard.

是的。

Yeah.

一开始它有点无聊。

It was kinda boring at first.

我的意思是，我有一阵子没玩过了。

I mean, I haven't played it in a while.

我只是大概看了一下，但它是为你自动生成一切的，因为不可能有一支团队，我以前在游戏行业工作过。

I just kinda looked at it, but it procedurally generates everything for you because there's no way a team of like, I was in the video game industry.

对吧？

Right?

不可能有一支团队能创造出180亿亿个世界。

There's no way a team could create 18 quintillion worlds.

结果发现，这个游戏里的世界数量正是这个数字，因为那是多少？

And turns out that's exactly the number of worlds they have in that game because that is, what?

64位。

64 bits.

如果你用64位，这就是你能得到的最大数字。

That's the biggest number you can get, if you use 64 bits.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

我们回到指数的问题。

So come back to exponent.

这是指数增长。

That's exponential growth.

它是

It's

太大了。

too big.

所以用量子计算机，理论上是这样，不过这些技术现在还很新。

And so with a with a quantum computer, theoretically and these are pretty new right now.

对吧？

Right?

亚马逊有一台。

Amazon has one.

微软有一台。

Microsoft has one.

IBM有一台，你可以在线编程。

IBM has one that you can actually program online.

谷歌也有自己的。

Google has their own.

大家都在努力研究如何让这些量子比特稳定并正常工作。

Everyone's trying to figure out how to make these qubits stable and work.

但基本理念是——我不确定我们现在进展到第几个了——你只能拥有四个量子比特，就像回到我们年轻时的旧时代，比如苹果II或者那时候的其他设备。

But the basic idea and I don't know what number we're up to for a while, was like you could only have four bits, qubits, kind of like going back to the old, you know, when we were young, the, you know, the Apple II or whatever came out.

再之前，还有那些基于八位处理器的套件，人们会自己组装。

And before that, there were these, you know, small eight bit processor based kits that people would assemble.

它们无法处理大量数据，因为根本无法管理那么多位。

And they just couldn't have a lot of data because they just didn't couldn't keep track of that many bits.

量子计算机现在就处于这个阶段。

And that's where quantum computers are today.

但这个想法是，如果你能拥有64个量子比特，你就能瞬间解决一个指数级复杂的问题，因为你能同时探索所有可能性。

But the idea is if you can have 64 qubits, you can instantaneously solve a problem that is exponential because you can explore all of those at the same time.

当你测量结果时，一切就都确定了。

And then when you measure the result, it's all now.

没人确切知道这究竟是如何运作的，但有两种解释，好吧。

Nobody knows exactly how this works, but the two explanations okay.

抱歉，我回来一下。

Coming back sorry.

我知道我有点混乱，刚才在思考。

I know I'm kinda I was wondering a bit.

回到薛定谔的猫，我们说有两种可能性。

Coming back to Schrodinger's cat, we say there's two possibilities.

对吧？

Right?

所以有64个量子比特时，就有2的64次方种可能性。

So with 64 qubits, there's two to the 64 possibilities.

如果它们都处于叠加态，就包含了所有可能的取值。

If they're all in superposition, they have all the possible values of it.

因此，当你进行测量时，它就会回到一个确定状态。

And so basically, when you measure that, it brings it back.

物理学家称这种现象为概率波的坍缩。

And so physicists call this the collapse of the probability wave.

所以所有这些可能性都有其概率，最终只留下一种结果。

So there's a probability of all these possibilities, and then it comes down to one.

这可以说是目前人们普遍接受的对这一现象的最佳解释。

And that's sort of the best one of the accepted ways that people think this whole thing works.

但没有人真正完全了解其中的原理。

But nobody totally knows.

于是，另一位曾是约翰·惠勒在普林斯顿的研究生的人提出了另一种想法。

So another guy who was John Wheeler's grad student in in at Princeton came up with another idea.

我们从超级英雄电影中听说过这个想法。

And we've heard about this idea from the superhero movies.

对吧？

Right?

这就是多重宇宙的概念。

And this is the multiverse idea.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，他基本上说，如果你有薛定谔的猫，会发生的情况是宇宙会分裂成两个不同的宇宙。

And so, basically, he said that if you've got Schrodinger's cat, what happens is you're splitting the universe into two different universes.

在一个宇宙中，猫是活着的，在另一个宇宙中，猫是死的。

In one of them, the cat is alive, and another one, the cat is dead.

对吧？

Right?

所以多元宇宙的概念是，当我们进行测量时，我们只看到其中一种状态，因为我们处于这个宇宙中。

So that's the multiverse idea is that when we measure it, we only see one of those two because we're in this universe.

但如果我们恰好处于另一个宇宙，那只猫就已经死了。

But if we happen to be in this other universe, the cat would have been dead.

对吧？

Right?

在这里，猫是活着的。

The cat is alive here.

这就产生了一系列可能性，而这些现在经常被用在超级英雄故事中。

And so that creates a whole series of possibilities when you and which are being used now in in superhero stories all the time.

对吧？

Right?

你有不同版本的蝙蝠侠，不同版本的超人。

You've got your different versions of Batman, your versions of Superman.

蜘蛛

Spider

天啊。

Man.

是的。

Yeah.

蜘蛛侠，对。

Spy yeah.

那个著名的蜘蛛侠梗，就是好几个蜘蛛侠互相指着对方。

The famous Spider Man meme where you have, like, the the Spider Man all kinda pointing at each other.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

而且他们用了不同的演员。

And they have the different actors.

所以这个想法现在开始流行起来了。

So that idea has started to catch on now.

这就是我所说的，它已经通过了十岁孩子的测试。

It's what I like to call it's past the 10 year old test.

对吧？

Right?

而所谓的十岁孩子测试，是指一个科学概念传播得如此广泛，以至于十岁孩子都能理解，这要归功于超级英雄电影，就像上世纪三十年代人们试图解释超人一样。

And and the 10 year old test is when a scientific idea gets out there so much that even 10 year olds can kind of understand it because of superhero movies or because, like like, in the nineteen thirties when people they were trying to explain, Superman.

比如，超人是怎么获得超能力的？

Like, how does Superman get his powers?

你会说，哦，他来自另一个星球。

You say, oh, he came from another planet.

他来自一个叫克里普顿的星球。

He came from a planet called Krypton.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

所以，二十世纪三十年代的十岁孩子也能理解这一点。

So even a 10 year old in the nineteen thirties could have understood that.

但在十七世纪三十年代，你就不能这么说。

But in the seventeen thirties, like, you couldn't say that.

没人会明白你在说什么。

No one would know what the heck you're talking about.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

没错。

Right.

于是这个想法逐渐渗透到了社会中。

And so that idea kinda diffused to society.

现在，多元宇宙这个概念也在发生同样的情况。

And so that's happening now with the multiverse idea too.

这种想法正以这种方式通过流行文化、媒体叙事等逐渐渗透到社会中。

It's kind of diffusing, you know, through society in in this way through popular culture, you know, and and and media narratives and stuff.

所以这是对量子怪异现象如何运作的另一种解释，那就是多重宇宙。

So that's the other explanation for how all this weirdness quantum weirdness works, which is it's the multiverse.

于是人们问：量子计算机如何能理论上解决一个普通计算机需要数千年才能解决的问题？

And so people said, how can a quantum computer theoretically solve a problem that would take thousands of years for a regular computer to solve?

一位名叫大卫·多伊奇的牛津大学学者说，这是因为量子计算机在同时考察所有可能的比特值，而每个值对应一个不同的宇宙。

And one explanation, a guy named David Deutsche out at Oxford says, well, because it's looking at all the possible values of the bits, there's that many different universes.

对吧？

Right?

它在所有这些宇宙中同时进行计算。

And it's computing in all of those universes instantaneously.

然后在最后返回你想要的值。

And then it's bringing back the value that you want at the end.

而这个值就成了你的答案。

And and that becomes your answer.

所以我觉得我们有点偏离了你最初的问题。

So I I think we've gotten a little bit, away from you, the original question.

这个话题似乎不可避免地会让人跑偏。

It it seems like that's inevitable with the subject.

是的。

Yeah.

这个话题确实容易带你进入一个又一个岔路。

This subject does tend to take you down, you know, many, many different rabbit holes.

对。

Yeah.

我认为你最初的问题是关于记忆的。

And I think your original question was about memory.

对吧？

Right?

我们怎么知道记忆呢？我之所以绕到量子物理和多重宇宙这个话题，是因为——顺便说一句，我为此专门写了一本关于模拟理论的第二本书，叫《模拟多重宇宙》。

And how do we know that the memory so the reason I went down this this rabbit hole on the the quantum physics stuff in the multiverse, which, by the way, that's the subject of the I wrote a whole second book on simulation theory just for that, which is the Simulated Multiverse.

因为科学家喜欢多重宇宙这个想法，是因为从数学上讲，你可以算出这些不同世界中方程是如何运作的。

Because the reason scientists like this multiverse idea is that mathematically, you can figure out how the equations work in all these different worlds.

你知道吗？

You know?

而相比之下，第一个想法——哥本哈根解释——则存在各种可能性。

Whereas with the the the first idea, which is the Copenhagen interpretation, you have, you have all these possibilities.

你有一个概率波，然后突然间就只剩下一个状态，但没人能从数学上解释这一点。

You have a probability wave, and then suddenly, you're down to one, and nobody can explain that mathematically.

没人能说清楚，坍缩究竟是如何发生的？

Nobody can say, how does the collapse occur?

比如，没有一个你可以直接代入的小公式。

Like, there's no little equation you can pop into.

因此这被称为观测者效应，被认为是一个巨大的谜团。

And so that's why it's called the observer effect, and it's considered a big mystery.

比如，是观测行为本身导致了这种变化吗？

Like, is it the act of observation?

是测量行为本身吗？

Is it the act of measurement?

对吧？

Right?

所以这些物理学家们彼此争论不休。

So all these physicists are debating with each other.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

所以他们不喜欢哥本哈根解释，因为它似乎依赖于意识或某种观察者，而科学家们不太喜欢这种说法。

So they don't like the Copenhagen interpretation because it seems to rely on consciousness or some kind of an observer, and scientists kinda hate that.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

他们不愿意谈论意识是真实存在的，我们稍后会深入探讨模拟假说中的宗教层面。

They hate to talk about consciousness being real, and we'll get into the whole religious aspects of the simulation hypothesis in in a little bit.

所以他们觉得这个理论不错，因为数学上完全成立，就是多重宇宙的概念。

So they're like, well, this one's nice because it's the mathematics all work, the multiverse idea.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但多重宇宙理论的问题在于，它不符合科学家所说的简约性，也就是说，宇宙正在不断分裂出来。

But the problem with the multiverse idea is that it's not what scientists like to call parsimonious, which means that what's happening is there's a new universe splitting off, like, all the time.

对吧？

Right?

每次出现量子事件时——我们现在讨论的是量子决策。

Every time there's a quantum now we're talking about quantum decisions.

对吧？

Right?

我们其实并不是在讨论像猫这样的宏观事物。

We're we're not really talking about big things like cats.

我们讨论的是在纳秒内发生的微小决定。

We're talking about little decisions that occur within a nanosecond.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

因此，每次做出决定时，你就会分裂出一个新的物理宇宙。

And so every time there's a decision, you're splitting off to new a new physical universe.

所以想想看，我们现在谈论的是呈指数增长，而且是加强版的。

So think about now we're talking exponential growth, but on steroids.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

因为这是无限的。

Because it's just infinite.

它一直在持续下去。

It just keeps going.

对。

Right.

这是一个有点奇怪的概念，竟然会有如此多的物理宇宙被创造出来。

And that's that's kind of a weird concept that there would be so many physical universes being created.

所以，关于这个话题，我的结论是：猜猜怎么着？

And so, you know, where I came out on this subject is, well, guess what?

模拟假说为你提供了一种方式，来同时理解这两者，一个让它们变得合理的框架。

The simulation hypothesis gives you a way to look at both of these, a framework that makes it make sense.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，当人们研究量子力学时，他们就是这么说的。

I mean, this is what people say when they look at quantum mechanics.

他们说：让它变得合理。

They say, make it make sense.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

因为猫应该是活着的或者死了的。

Because the cat should be alive or dead.

它怎么可能同时是两者呢？

How can it be both?

对。

Right.

所以当你思考信息和模拟理论时，其核心是世界并非物理的。

And so when you think of information and you think of the simulation idea, the core of it is that the world is not physical.

好的。

Okay.

这张桌子看起来相当物理。

This table seems pretty physical.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

但如果你走近细看，它大部分是空的，大约90%多，可能高达99%。

But if you go and you look inside, it's mostly empty space, Something like 90 some percent, maybe 99%.

然后你再看原子内部，发现它也主要是空的。

And then you go to the atoms and you look inside those and it's mostly empty space.

对吧？

Right?

还有电子云之类的东西。

And there's these electron clouds and stuff.

但确实。

But Yeah.

除了原子核之外，它基本上都是空的。

Except for the the the nucleus, it's mostly empty space.

问题是，这就像俄罗斯套娃。

And the problem is like these Russian dolls.

如果你不断往里看，他们一直在寻找一种叫做物质的东西，却找不到。

If you keep looking inside, they keep looking for this thing called physical matter, and they can't find it.

就像，它其实并不存在。

Like, it's not really there.

当你走到最小的俄罗斯套娃时，他们唯一能找到的只有信息。

It's like you go to the the very smallest of the Russian dolls, and the only thing they can find is information.

所以，我之前提到过的约翰·惠勒，在我探索模拟理论的过程中扮演了极其重要的角色。

And so John Wheeler, who I talked about earlier, you know, he plays an outsized role in in in at least my explorations of simulation theory.

他提出了一句名言，那就是‘万物源于比特’。

He came up with a phrase, and his phrase was it from bit.

如果存在某种‘物’，比如这个杯子或这张桌子，当你不断用显微镜往下观察时。

So if there's something that's an it, physical object like this cup or this table, that if you just keep keep looking down, you have a microscope that just keeps going down.

他说，最终你所发现的只有粒子。

He goes, in the end, the only thing you find are particles.

但粒子到底是什么东西？

But what the heck are particles?

他说，粒子本质上只是一系列对是非问题的回答。

He said, well, the only thing that particles really are is a series of answers to yes, no questions.

所以，粒子是自旋向上吗？

So it's like, does the particle spin up?

它是自旋向下吗？

Does it spin down?

它有着各种不同的极性之类的东西。

It's got, like, you know, various different polarities and and things.

但他认为，最终你所拥有的只有信息比特，因为那正是一个比特。

But so he said, in the end, the only thing you have are bits of information because that's a bit.

对吧？

Right?

每一个决定都是一个比特。

Every single decision is a bit.

是或否？

Yes or no?

一或零？

One or zero?

这就是计算的基本单位。

That's like the fundamental unit of computation.

这就是我们，正如我所说，传输视频和其他一切的方式。

That's how we, you know, like I said, stream video, everything else.

所以他说道，其中的一切实际上都来自信息比特。

And so he he said everything that's in it is actually from bits of information.

而且出现了一个全新的领域，称为数字物理学。

And there's a whole new, there's a whole new kind of, field within physics, which is called digital physics.

对吧？

Right?

所以过去，你知道，物理学是关于物理对象的运动。

So in the past, you know, physics was about physical objects moving around.

因此，数字物理学关注的是信息，比如宇宙中的信息会发生什么变化。

And so digital physics is about information, like what happens to information in the universe.

它会在黑洞中被销毁吗？

Does it get destroyed in a black hole?

它会被创造出来吗？

Does it get created?

所以，你不再有动量守恒和能量守恒，而是信息守恒。

So you have instead of conservation of momentum and, you know, conservation of energy, you have conservation of information.

这是一种看待物理世界的不同方式。

So it's like a different way of looking at the physical world.

你把它看作一种计算过程，而不是像经典物理学那样看待物体的运动。

You look at it as a computation rather than looking at it as physical objects moving around like in classical physics.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

问题是，据我们所知，我们确实生活在一个物理世界中。

The problem is, like, we do live in a physical world as far as we can tell.

但如果你去测量物理世界中的实际事物，就会遇到这种怪异的现象。

But then if you measure the actual things in the physical world, then you get to this weirdness.

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

在最底层，你会遇到这种怪异的现象。

You get to this weirdness down at the bottom level.

这是所有事物的核心。

The very core of it all.

就我们能测量的而言，到底发生了什么？

Like, what is what is going on as far as we can measure?

所以，对。

So Right.

而且这是有极限的。

And there's a limit.

比如，我们只能测量到最小的单位

Like, we can only measure up to the smallest unit

对。

Right.

这个最小单位被称为普朗克尺度。

Which is called, like, the Planck.

但当我们深入下去时，得到的答案越来越少，事情也变得越来越诡异。

But as we go deeper, we get less answers, and it gets more weird.

事情变得越来越诡异，世界看起来不再像一个真实的物理存在，而更像是在我们观察世界，或一群人观察世界时才被渲染出来的一堆信息。

It gets more weird, and it starts to look less like the physical world exists and more like it's a bunch of information that gets rendered as we observe the world or as groups of people observe the world.

你有没有试着把这个问题追溯到极致，想想究竟是什么创造了这一切，或者可能是什么创造了它，或者是否曾经存在过一个物理世界？

Have you ever taken this back as far as you can and, like, try to figure out, like, what created this or what possibilities could have created this, or was there ever a physical world?

这真是个好问题。

Well, that's a good question.

所以我最终想到的是，当你观察时，世界是如何被渲染出来的。

So where I ended up with this was looking at how the world gets rendered as you observe it.

比如，正如我所说，我的背景是计算机科学家和电子游戏设计师与开发者，这正是我们渲染电子游戏的方式。

Like, for me, my background is, as I said, a computer scientist and a video game designer and developer, is that that's pretty much how we render video games.

对吧？

Right?

所以，如果你和我都在游戏中，我们的角色在同一片田野或同一个房间里准备互相射击，我们其实并不在同一个房间，对吧？

So if you and I are in the our avatars are in the same field or the same room about to shoot each other in a video game, we're not really in the same room, are we?

是的。

Right.

你在你的屏幕上渲染它，而我在我的屏幕上渲染它。

You're rendering it on your screen, and I'm rendering it on my screen.

是的。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

因此，有一些信息是从服务器传来的。

And so there's information that's coming from the server.

然后，我们只渲染自己能看到的部分。

And then what happens is we render only the part that we can see.

对吧？

Right?

只渲染你角色周围的那个视角。

Only that that view around your avatar.

你可以是第一人称视角，也可以像这样，嗯。

You could be a first person point of view, you could be, like, kinda Mhmm.

悬浮在你的角色上方，或者像现在很多游戏那样，采用第三人称或第二人称视角。

Hovering over your character or, like, many video games do that these days, like a kind of a third person or second person point of view.

但我的电脑上需要渲染的像素，仅限于我的角色能看到的部分；你的电脑上需要渲染的像素，也仅限于你的角色能看到的部分，这些内容都会在服务器上缓存。

But the only pixels you need to render on my computer are the ones that my avatar can see, and the only ones you need to render on your computer are the ones your avatar can see, and those get cached on the server.

然后它们会被发送出去。

And so they get sent out.

所以这是一种优化技术。

And so it's it's an optimization technique.

对吧？

Right?

在上世纪八十年代，我小时候，我们用的是苹果二型电脑之类的，根本不可能做到。

There's no way in the nineteen eighties, like when I was growing up, we had, you know, the Apple two computers or whatever.

那时候根本不可能渲染出像我们现在玩的完整三维世界或三维游戏。

There's no way you could render, like, a a full three d, you know, world or a full three d game like like we play today.

所以后来我们不仅发现计算机变得更快了，还学会了各种优化技术。

And so what happened was we learned not only did the computers get faster, but we learned optimization techniques.

在计算机科学中，几乎所有事情最终都归结为优化。

So everything in computer science comes down to optimization usually.

比如物理学家们常常高兴地说‘这是无限的’，却从不深究这到底意味着什么。

Like, physicists are happy just saying, yeah, it's infinite, but without really wondering what the heck that means.

但在计算机科学中，你通常只有有限的资源。

But with computer science, you only have limited resources typically.

因此，你需要想办法用这些有限的资源来计算某些东西。

And so you need to figure out how to compute something with those limited resources.

所以对我来说，视频游戏渲染是一种优化手段，它让你看起来像是身处一个共享的物理世界，但实际上并不是。

And so video game rendering to me is a case of optimizing so that it looks like there's a shared physical world, but there really isn't.

对吧？

Right?

因为每个画面都是在我们各自的电脑上渲染的。

Because it's being rendered on each of our our own computer.

没错。

Right.

所以规则是：只渲染你能看到的东西。

And so but the rule is only render that which you can see.

当我开始研究量子力学中的这种怪异现象时，它说：只渲染被观测或测量到的东西，具体取决于你怎么理解。

Now when I started to look at this weirdness in quantum mechanics, which is saying render only that which is observed or measured, depending on how you look at it.

但即使你进行了测量，也必须有人去查看这个测量结果，你才能知道它确实被测量了。

But even if you measure it, somebody's gotta look at that measurement before you know it was actually measured.

对吧？

Right?

所以发生的是同一种情况。

So it's the same kind of thing going on.

在我看来，量子力学最终是一种优化技术，用于从底层信息中渲染物理世界。

In my opinion, quantum mechanics, it ends up being a optimization technique for rendering of the physical world from the information that lives below.

因此，这就是模拟理论中我认为非常重要的一个主要含义。

So that's kinda the one big implication of simulation theory that that I think is very important.

实际上，宇宙信息这一概念并不那么有争议。

And, actually, the idea of the universe's information is not that controversial.

今年夏天，我在伦敦剑桥大学待了一段时间，做一些人工智能研究，遇到了一位上世纪七十年代的诺贝尔奖得主物理学家。

So just I was in London this summer over at, the Cambridge University, spending a little bit of time doing some AI research, and I ran into this Nobel, prize winner physicist from, like, the seventies.

于是我们自然聊到了模拟理论。

And so I we were talking simulation theory, of course.

你知道，我说，这里的一个关键假设是，世界就是信息。

And, you know, I said, well, one of the key assumptions here is that the world is information.

他说，是的。

And he said, yeah.

在物理学中，这已经不再有争议了。

That's not controversial in physics at all anymore.

也许在过去曾经有过争议。

Like, it might have been once upon a time.

但模拟理论中的第二个假设是，世界像电子游戏一样被渲染，而且世界是一个骗局。

But then the second part, the second assumption that comes up in simulation theory is that the world is rendered like a video game and that the world is a hoax.

这是一种某种骗局。

It's some kind of a hoax.

也就是说，它并不是真实的。

Like, it's not really real.

对吧？

Right?

这是物理学家们不一定认同的另一个假设，但这也是模拟理论的另一部分。

That's the other assumption that physicists don't necessarily agree with, but that's the other part of simulation theory.

反对它的论点是什么？

What's the argument against it?

反对模拟理论？

Against simulation theory?

反对它根本不存在于物理世界这个观点

Against the fit like, that it doesn't physically exist

如果他们不同意的话。

if they disagree.

他们并不一定不同意它在物理上不存在。

Well, they don't disagree necessarily that it doesn't physically exist.

他们只是不同意信息是如何被渲染给我们这个过程。

They just disagree that on how does it that it this thing that that that is information gets rendered for us.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

对他们来说，我们就像在说不同的语言。

It's like we're talking different languages for them.

对吧？

Right?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

尽管量子力学告诉我们这么多奇怪的东西，但他们仍然常常持经典观点，认为世界就是物理对象在运动，仅此而已。

Even though quantum mechanics is telling us all this weird stuff, they're still, I think, often taking classical view, classical mechanical view of the world of physical objects moving around, and that's all it is.

对吧？

Right?

所以，人们提出了许多反对我们生活在模拟中的观点。

So, you know, there's arguments that people make against the idea that we live in a simulation.

第一个论点是，你知道，有个著名人物叫贝克莱主教。

And the first is, you know, the same argument that, you know there was a famous guy named Bishop Berkeley.

伯克利市就是以他命名的。

The city of Berkeley is named after him.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得他是乔治·贝克莱之类的。

I think it was George Berkeley or something.

他是英国的一位主教，提出了唯心主义这个观点，也就是哲学上认为世界其实并不存在。

He was a bishop in The UK, and he came up with this idea of idealism, you know, this philosophical idea that the world doesn't really exist.

它只存在于心灵之中。

It's only in the mind.

还有另一个家伙，我想是约翰逊，他问，你怎么反驳这个观点？

And there was this other guy, I think it was Johnson, you know, who said, how do you refute that?

然后他踢了一块石头，说：这就是我反驳的方式。

And he kicks a rock and he goes, that's how I refute it.

明白吗？

See?

这是实实在在的。

It's physical.

它就在那里。

It's there.

对吧？

Right?

所以，这就是人们试图反驳这一观点的最朴素的常识方式。

And so that's, you know, the first common sense way people try to refute the idea.

但当然，物理学家们并不是这么说的。

But of course, that's not what the physicists are saying.

物理学家们恰恰告诉我们，世界并不存在，它由信息构成，时空是从这些信息中构建出来的。

The physicists are the one telling us that the world doesn't really exist, that it consists of information and space time gets constructed out of that information.

对吧？

Right?

所以，这可以说是人们试图反驳模拟理论的最主要观点之一——他们说，这根本无法被证伪。

So that's that's, like, one of the biggest, I I think, issues that that another way that people try to try to push back on the idea of simulation theory is they say, well, it's not really falsifiable.

对吧？

Right?

所以我无法设计一个实验证明我们不在模拟中。

So I can't design an experiment that proves we are not in a simulation.

这触及了科学的边界问题。

So this touches on the boundary issues of science.

比如，科学在哪里结束？

Like, where does science end?

对吧？

Right?

哲学又从哪里开始？

And where does philosophy begin?

形而上学又从哪里开始？

Where does metaphysics begin?

宗教又从哪里开始？

Where does religion begin?

这些界限实际上比你想象的要模糊得多。

And those lines are actually fuzzier than you might think.

对吧？

Right?

因为长期以来，人们一直在争论什么是科学、什么不是科学，已经持续了数百年。

Because there's been a debate over that for a long time now, for hundreds of years about what is scientific and what isn't.

对吧？

Right?

像UFO、超自然现象这些东西，都被推到了那个界限之外。

And things like, you know, UFOs and paranormal phenomena and all this stuff, you know, gets kind of pushed out beyond that boundary.

但有一位叫波普尔的人提出过一个定义：如果一个主张不可证伪，那它就不是科学的。

But one definition that a guy named Popper came up with was if it's not falsifiable, it's not scientific.

对吧？

Right?

意思是，你无法证明它是错误的。

Meaning, you can't prove that it's false.

但问题在于，有很多事情我们无法证明它们是假的，却能找到一些证据表明这些事情确实发生过，或者这些事物确实存在。

The problem with that is there are lots of things that we can't prove that they're false, but we can find some evidence that these things actually, you know, happen or that these things exist.

几百年前，有人讲过天上掉石头的故事。

Like, couple hundred years ago, there were stories of rocks falling from the sky.

当时巴黎的科学家们都说，那纯粹是胡说八道。

And all the scientists, like, in Paris said, although that's just bullshit.

对吧？

Right?

那只是乡下农民的胡言乱语。

That's just a bunch of peasants out in the countryside.

我们知道天上不可能掉石头。

We know there's no rocks falling from the sky.

为什么？

Why?

因为我们知道天上没有石头，我们的科学这么告诉我们。

Because we know there's no rocks in the sky, our our science tells us.

没错。

Right.

天上根本没石头，那它们怎么可能从天上掉下来呢？

There's no rocks up there, so how the hell could they be falling from the sky?

所以这其实并不是一个可证伪的说法。

So that's kind of an not really a falsifiable thing.

你怎么能证明天上没有石头呢？

How can you prove there's no rocks in the sky?

你真的无法证明，但你可以去证实，而他们最终确实做到了，因为他们掌握了证据。

You really can't, but you can prove, and eventually they did because they got a hold.

有一次巨大的陨石雨发生在巴黎郊外，有人前去调查，有成千上万的目击者亲眼看到了这一幕。

There was some huge meteor storm and, you know, outside of Paris, and some guys went out to investigate, and there were thousands of witnesses that saw this thing.

然后，他们最终检查了一些陨石碎片和实物证据，逐渐改变了他们对宇宙的宇宙学模型。

And then eventually, you know, they looked at some of the artifacts, some of the physical evidence, and then eventually they changed their model, their cosmological model about the universe.

所以我认为模拟理论也是同样的道理，即使你无法证明我们不在模拟中，因为这个模拟可能做得太逼真了，就像《黑客帝国》一开始也让人深信不疑。

And so I think it's the same thing with simulation theory, even even though you can't prove we're not in a simulation because the simulation could be so good, you know, like, the matrix was pretty convincing at first.

对吧？

Right?

但这个模拟可能太逼真了，以至于你无法确切地分辨出来。

But the simulation could be so good that you can't necessarily tell.

但与此同时，你可以设计一些实验，这些实验可能暗示你正在发生类似视频游戏渲染的事情。

But at the same time, you can design experiments which might indicate to you that there's something going on like this video game rendering idea.

有一些人正在尝试进行实验，试图证明量子力学的真相确实就像视频游戏一样，整个世界都在为我们实时渲染。

And there are folks out there, you know, trying to trying to run experiments to try to to try to show that this is really what's happening with quantum mechanics is that like a video game, this whole world is being rendered for us.

你知道的，信息就像视频游戏一样被渲染出来。

You know, information being rendered just like a video game.

还有意识对这个世界的影响。

And the effect that consciousness has on this world.

因此，意识是我们用来测量或与各种可能性互动的工具。

So consciousness is the the thing that we're using to measure or the thing that we're using to interact with whatever possibilities exist.

是的。

Right.

所以在RPG版本中是这样吗？

And so that in the RPG version right?

这就是为什么我喜欢区分一下，嗯。

This is why I like to make the distinction Mhmm.

在角色扮演版本和非玩家角色版本之间。

Between the RPG version and the NPC version.

在角色扮演版本中，我们是接入其中的，就像尼奥后脑勺插着线，或者戴着虚拟现实头盔，或者某种尚未开发出来的技术。

So in the RPG version, we are plugged in, right, like Neo in the back of the head or with a virtual reality headset or some technology yet to be developed.

对吧？

Right?

所以当你玩电子游戏时，仅仅有像素是不够的。

And so when you play a video game, it's not enough that the pixels are there.

我的意思是，作为玩家，你基本上是在观看这个游戏，对吧。

I mean, you you basically are watching that game, right, as the player.

当你不看的时候，会发生什么？

And when you're not watching, what happens?

你直接关掉它。

You just turn it off.

对吧？

Right?

你关掉电脑。

You turn off your computer.

会发生什么？

What happens?

嗯，服务器上仍然有信息在运行。

Well, there's still the information going on on the server.

可能还有其他人正在玩。

Maybe other people are playing.

对吧？

Right?

但那时就不需要渲染了。

But it doesn't need to render it at that point.

服务器只需要追踪所有事物的位置即可。

It's just the server can keep track of where everything is.

所以我们在制作电子游戏时，会发送各种信息下去。

So what we did when we created video games, we would, you know, send down information.

事实上，你可以反过来做一件非常有趣的事情。

And in fact, you can then turn around and do something very interesting.

比如，如果你是一个30级的玩家，而我是一个2级玩家，我们的角色可以站在彼此旁边。

Like, if you're a level 30 player, right, and I'm a level two player, our avatars could be standing right next to each other.

一个人能看到龙，而另一个人可能看不到龙，因为我们在游戏中可能不具备这个能力。

And one could see the dragon, and one might not be able to see the dragon because maybe we don't have that ability in the game.

我们的等级还不够高。

We're not at a high enough level.

但这是服务器逻辑在决定的。

But the server logic is deciding that.

因此，在这种模拟理论的模型中，意识就成为了玩家，它为我们渲染出这个世界。

So consciousness then becomes the player in that model of simulation theory, and it renders the world for us.

结果发现，这与世界各大宗教一直告诉我们的非常相似。

And it turns out that is very similar to what the world's religions have been telling us.

对吧？

Right?

不只是世界上一两个宗教。

Not just one or two of the world's religions.

当我写我的书《模拟假说》时，我给它加了一个副标题：为什么人工智能、量子物理和东方神秘主义者都认为我们生活在一个电子游戏中。

Like, when I wrote my book, The Simulation Hypothesis, I I I gave it a subtitle of why AI, quantum physics, and eastern mystics agree we're in a video game.

我当时主要想到的是东方神秘主义者，比如印度教和佛教传统中的瑜伽修行者。

And I was thinking primarily of the eastern mystics, like, you know, in the Hindu and Buddhist traditions and the yogis.

他们谈论的是‘摩耶’这个词。

And they talk about the term Maya.

大多数人可能都听过‘摩耶’这个词，还有业力之类的术语，但摩耶的意思是幻象。

Most most people have probably heard that term in karma and all these different terms, but Maya means illusion.

对吧？

Right?

这就是它的翻译方式。

That's how it gets translated.

这是一个古老的梵语词汇。

It's like an ancient Sanskrit word.

因此，这些神秘主义者告诉我们，这个世界并不是真实的。

And so these mystics are telling us that the world isn't really real.

它是一种幻觉。

It's a kind of illusion.

但如果你仔细审视‘Maya’这个词的定义，它的含义更接近于一种精心设计的幻觉。

But if you really look at the definition of that word Maya, it means something more like a carefully crafted illusion.

对吧？

Right?

这就像是你去看魔术表演，你知道那个人并没有真的把那个女人锯成两半。

It's almost like if you go to a magic show and you know the guy's not really sawing that woman in half.

好吧。

Okay.

但你愿意暂时搁置怀疑，因为这正是让整个表演有趣的原因。

But you kind of agree to suspend your disbelief because that's what makes the whole thing fun.

对吧？

Right?

看魔术表演或者特效电影，比如《银翼杀手2049》，那辆车其实并没有在飞。

Watching a magic show or watching a special effects, you know, you know, Blade Runner 2,049, the car is not really flying.

那些只是电脑生成的图像。

Those are just CGI.

对吧？

Right?

但当我们进入那个世界时，我们默认接受了这一点，并沉浸其中。

But we agree to that to a certain extent as we go into that world and we become immersed in that world.

所以，东方传统中的神秘主义者告诉我们，我们默认进入了这个虚幻的世界，以获得这些体验。

And so what, you know, the mystics in the Eastern traditions have been telling us is that we agree to basically go into this illusory world in order to have these experiences.

对吧？

Right?

有些人会问，这个模拟的目的是什么？

Sometimes people say, well, what's the purpose of the simulation?

我说，那你为什么玩电子游戏呢？

And I say, well, why do you play video games?

那你为什么玩电子游戏呢？

And why do you play video games?

好玩。

Fun.

第一个原因是好玩。

Fun is one.

第二个原因是尝试一些你平时不可能有的体验，对吧？

Two is to try to have experiences that you probably can't have Right.

在游戏之外。

Outside of the game.

比如《侠盗猎车手》。

Like, even Grand Theft Auto.

对吧？

Right?