#2424 - 果冻卷

哦，老兄，我们要嗨起来了。

Oh, dude, we're turning up.

我们他妈的一定能解决这个问题。

We're fucking we're we're gonna figure this out.

于是我知道这是个心理问题。

So then I knew it was a mental thing.

我读了本书叫《狐狸、马、鼹鼠和男孩》。

And I read a book called The Fox, The Horse, The Mole, The Boy.

你听说过这本书吗？

You ever heard of this book?

没有。

No.

这是本儿童读物。

It's a children's book.

杰米，如果你不介意的话查一下这本书，因为它就像是有人为我们的孩子重新创作的小熊维尼故事。

Jamie, if you don't mind pulling it up because it's it's just it's just it's somebody kinda recreated Winnie the Pooh, but for our kids.

你知道吗？

You know?

这是本儿童读物，我翻开它，里面有个瞬间写着'是的'。

And it was a children's book, and I open it up, and it has a moment where it goes yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

男孩、狐狸、

The boy, the fox,

噢，我见过这个。

and the it's a Oh, I have seen this.

是啊。

Yeah.

想不想聊聊这篇七分钟就能读完却能改变你人生的故事？

You wanna talk about a seven minute read that will change your life.

但书里有句台词——我忘了是鼹鼠还是狐狸——看着马问道：'你一生中做过最难的事是什么？'

But there's a quote in there that goes I forgot if it was the mole, but the the fox or something looks at the horse and goes, what's the hardest thing you've ever done in your life?

马儿回答说，寻求帮助。

And the horse goes, ask for help.

是啊。

Yeah.

这些都是些非常酷的小细节。

It's just all these, like, really cool little things.

但当他提到'寻求帮助'时，真是让人醍醐灌顶。

But when he said ask for help, was like, wow.

我需要学会寻求帮助。

I need to ask for help.

就像当初我药物成瘾时，第一次走进戒毒所承认自己失控那样。

Just like whenever I was addicted to drugs and I had to walk in that room for the first time and go, I don't have control.

于是我联系了一家叫On-site的治疗机构。

So I called a company called On-site that does therapy.

我和一位名叫玛丽·B的女士相处了两周，她是全球食物成瘾治疗课程的编写者。

And I went and spent two weeks with a lady named Mary B who wrote the curriculum for food addiction in the world.

她是一位80岁戴眼镜的老太太，有着温柔的灵魂，我们被关在一间小木屋里。

Like she is a 80 year old woman with glasses, sweet soul of a woman, and we locked in a cabin.

她说：‘我们要弄清楚这是怎么回事。’

And she said, we're gonna figure out what this is.

我大概在这间小木屋里和这位慈祥的老太太共度了两三周，就像在森林里与世隔绝，没有手机。

And I spent, I think, maybe two or three weeks in this cabin with this sweet old woman, and it was like no phone out in the woods.

我每天都去散步。

I walked every day.

我和马儿玩耍。

I played with the horses.

我的意思是，我就躺在草地上，这真的让我回顾了这些年的经历，这是我第一次没有急着想要减掉体重。

I mean I just went laid in grass and it really took me all the way back through all my years and it was the first time that I didn't just try to rush to lose the weight.

我试图弄清楚为什么我要背负这些重量。

I tried to figure out what why I was carrying the weight.

你知道吗，就在那时我明白了，暴饮暴食对我来说并不是自律的失败。

You know, and that's whenever I figured out that I've that that overeating for me wasn't a failure of discipline.

我是个相当自律的人。

I'm a pretty disciplined guy.

这只是我还没学会如何阻断的生理反应。

It was just a biological thing I hadn't learned how to interrupt.

我这辈子都是这样过来的。

I've been doing it my whole life.

它一直是我应对压力的惯用方式。

It had been my constant go to for stress.

它无处不在，无时不在。

It had been it was everywhere all the time.

我开始思考自己真正渴望的是什么——我到底在为怎样的饥饿而进食。

I was eating for I had to start figuring out what I was actually hungry for.

你明白吗？

You know?

就像我们讨论肥胖问题时，乔，这涉及到不同群体。

Like, when we talk about obesity, Joe, there's groups.

如果你这边340磅（约154公斤），那边330磅（约150公斤），要知道，这取决于你的身高，当然，你可能面临的是自律问题。

If you're three hundred and forty pounds here, three hundred and thirty pounds here, you know, that's pot depending on your height, of course, you might be dealing with a discipline issue.

也许你就是喜欢多吃点。

Maybe you just like extra food.

我们可以做些小改变来减掉这些体重。

We can make small changes and get that off.

当你超过340磅（约154公斤），开始超过340磅（约154公斤）时。

You start getting over three hundred, three twenty.

那开始变成病态肥胖了。

You start that starts being morbid obesity.

就像，那里开始出现真正的问题了，你懂吗？

Like, there starts to be a real thing there, you know?

现在我看到的更多了，因为我和几十个超过500磅（约227公斤）的人交谈过，他们联系我说，求你了，这是什么魔法，尤达大师？

And I'm seeing it more now because I talked to tens, twenties of guys that are over five hundred pounds that have reached out to me like, please, what is this magic, Yoda?

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我就说，坚持才是魔法。

I'm like I'm like, consistency is the magic.

但首先，当我明白自己为何进食时——这是我治疗时记下的笔记。

But one, once I realized why I was eating, eighty eighty here here's the note I took from therapy.

我让妻子翻译了我在治疗期间的所有笔记。

I had I took had my wife translate all my notes from when I was out there.

笔记上写着：首先，你要改变思考和说话的方式。

And it goes, change first of all, you change the way you think and talk.

因为80%到90%的强迫性进食发生在两耳之间（大脑），而非牙齿之间。

But because eighty to ninety percent of compulsive eating happens between the ears, not the teeth.

我从她那里学到，普通肥胖者实际进食量只有他们想吃东西时念头的20%。

So the average obese person is that big, and I learned this from her, is that they're only eating 20% of what they're thinking about eating.

这种念头整天在你脑海里循环播放。

This is an all day loop that's in a in a in your head.

这就像毒瘾一样。

It's like a drug addiction.

知道吗，我和舒尔茨以前常拿这事开玩笑。

You know, I used to walk in me and Schultz laughed about this.

我以前走进房间就会四处扫视。

I used to walk in rooms and scan.

就像捕食者那样走进房间。

Like, I would walk in a room like the predator.

我能像终结者一样，一边盯着你的眼睛，一边知道'柜台上有碗士力架'。

Like, I would I would do one thing like the Terminator and be able to look you in the eye and be like, there's a bowl of Snickers on that counter.

这边还有两颗M&M豆。

There's two M and M's over here.

那边还有些乐事薯片。

They have some Lay's potato chips over there.

我对这些了如指掌。

Like, I knew my way.

主要是糖分？

It was mostly sugar?

全是糖。

All sugar.

我和你在聊的就是糖啊，老兄。

Me and you were talking about, dude, sugar.

嗯，加工食品。

Well, processed food.

我...我不...你知道他们说加里一开始建议我尝试生酮饮食或全食物饮食。

I I didn't You know how they said so Gary was like, get on a keto diet or a whole food diet at first.

我当时就想，反正我现在根本不吃全食物。

And I was like, I don't think I eat whole foods now at all anyways.

我觉得我只吃些可能含蛋白质的加工食品。

I think I just eat processed foods with maybe protein in it.

你懂我意思吗？

You know what mean?

老兄，我已经两年没吃过面包了，除了感恩节那次。

I don't dude, I haven't ate a piece of bread except for Thanksgiving in two years.

乔，我曾经是色盲。

Joe, I was color blind.

我们讨论过这个。

We talked about this.

是啊。

Yeah.

这是个疯狂的故事。

This is a crazy story.

这是个真实的故事，乔。

This is a true story, Joe.

我妻子可以作证。

I my wife will tell you.

她现在会笑这件事，但我当时真的看不见。

This is she laughs about it now, but I couldn't see.

我只能看到颜色的阴影。

I've seen shades of colors.

比如，我对颜色只有笼统的概念，但像猎人绿、翡翠绿这些，对我来说都是‘绿色’而已。

Like, I general concepts, but, like, hunter green, emerald green, like what green's green to me.

我从没意识到颜色还有细微差别和美感，有些更亮，色调也不同。

I never realized there was nuances and prettiness and that some were brighter and toned different.

我只看到它们像是不同的阴影。

I just seen them like shades.

糟糕到这种程度，所以我总是穿黑色衣服。

So bad that, like, that's why I wore black.

Johnny Cass（原因之一），但主要是我总得问别人：我的鞋子配色搭吗？

Johnny Cass was a lot of it, but two, you know, I'd always have to ask people, does my shoes match?

你知道，我的搭配总是出错。

You know, I was always off.

老兄，戒糖九个月后，有次我看到家里的植物——我忘了具体是什么——突然意识到它的颜色。

Dude, I'd say nine months into No Sugar, I start I think I forgot what it was, but it was a plant at our house.

我跑到外面拉着妻子问：我们那株漂亮的紫色郁金香种了多久了？

And I come outside, and I grab my wife, and I go, dude, how long have we had that pretty purple tulip there?

或者随便什么吧。

Or whatever it was.

然后她说，什么？

And she goes, what?

我说，那是我见过最漂亮的紫色植物。

I was like, that is the prettiest purple plant I've ever seen.

她说，你从那株植物旁边走了两年。

She was like, you've walked by that plant for two years.

你在说什么啊？

What are you talking about?

我说，不可能有这么漂亮的植物在我们家。

I was like, there's no way we've had a plant that pretty.

我两年都没注意到它。

I didn't notice it for two years.

那是亮紫色的，乔。

It was bright purple, Joe.

我是说，那紫色鲜艳得像是圣袍的颜色。

I mean, it was screaming, holy robe purple.

慢慢地，我开始在接下来的几天里四处观察。

And slowly, I started looking around the next few days.

随后的几个月里，我不断感叹自己能看到清晰的色彩了。

And over the next months, I was like, I'm seeing clear color.

我简直停不下来谈论这件事。

I couldn't quit talking about it.

我买了填色书。

I bought coloring books.

我妻子都笑我了。

My wife was laughing.

以前这婆娘还得给我挑领带搭配出庭呢。

This bitch used to have to give me a tie to match to go to court.

你懂我意思吧？

You know what I'm saying?

而我在那儿涂色。

And I'm in there coloring.

你懂我意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

她问，你在干嘛呢？

She's like, what are you doing?

我说，你要不要一起来涂色？

I was like, you wanna color?

而且我真的有，大概300色的彩铅套装。

And I I do I've got, like, 300 coloring pencil set.

昨天我还在猎鹿棚里跟Cam Hain滔滔不绝地聊一只鸟。

I was in I was in a deer blind with Cam Hain talking his face off about a bird yesterday.

他说，没想到你这么喜欢鸟。

He goes, I didn't know you like birds like that.

我只是喜欢色彩而已。

I was just I like color.

他当时就，真的假的？

He was like, really?

我就说，对啊。

I was like, yeah.

我有将近二十年都没看到色彩。

I didn't see color for, like, twenty years.

我就说，就是这样。

I was like, it is.

这简直太...肯定是糖分的问题。

That is so It had to have been the sugar.

肯定是这样。

Must have been.

那肯定是你全身都有严重炎症，极度缺乏营养。

It must have been just rampant inflammation through your whole body, massive lack of nutrients.

确实

It was

你的身体大概在想：去他妈的色彩。

And your body probably is like, fuck colors.

先保证这家伙活着再说。

Let's just keep this dude alive.

就是这样。

That's it.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

去他妈的色彩。

Fuck colors.

先让他活着就行。

Just keep him alive.

靠。

Damn.

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是啊

Yeah.

我从未计划过要活着，乔

It was I'd never planned on living, Joe.

从来都没有

Like, ever.

就像，这从来不在我的人生计划里。

Like, it was never in my plan, like, of life.

即使当我开始取得成功，生活对我变得美好时，我也是这样想的。

Even as I was getting successful, I was, like, coming out here and, like, life was getting good for me.

在我心里，我就想，好吧。

And in my mind, I was like, okay.

不错。

Good.

至少我死后，孩子们可能会过得不错，不会以我为耻。

When I die at least my kids might be okay and they won't be ashamed of me.

哇。

Wow.

我就是这么想的，乔。

That's how I was thinking, Joe.

我当时真的就是那样想的。

I was literally thinking that way.

我心里一直在想，只要我能把这台机器调低一点，我的孩子们就不会以我为耻。

In my mind, I was just pushing like, if I could just get this machine down a little bit, my kids won't be ashamed of me.

至少不用让他们觉得爸爸是因为心理健康问题死于肥胖，但他是个很酷的家伙，做过些很酷的事，你懂吗？

Won't have to be the At least their daddy died of obesity because he had mental health issues, but he was a cool fucking dude, man, that did some cool stuff, you know?

我从未想过自己能过上这样的生活。

And it was like, I never would have thought I could have this kind of life.

甚至当我之前坐在这里和你聊天时，我心里还在想，可能再也见不到乔了。

I never thought I could even even when I sat here and talked to you before, in my mind, I was thinking, I probably never see Joe again.

我当时想着，可能随时都会是我的最后一天。

I was thinking, you know, it'll probably go any day for me.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

比如，我的心脏随时都可能停止跳动。

Like, my heart could quit in any day.

我可能会复吸然后过量致死。

I could relapse and overdose.

我大部分时间脑子都不太清醒。

I'm I don't I'm not thinking right most of the time.

懂我意思吗？

You know?

就像现在坐在这儿看着你，老兄，我要和你一起活到70岁呢，兄弟。

To like sit here and look at you now like, dog, I'm gonna be a 70 year old man with you, Bubba.

明白我在说什么吗？

You know what I'm saying?

就像这样，老兄。

Like, dog.

你懂我意思吧？

You know what I'm saying?

会很酷的。

Like, it's gonna be cool.

你刚才说到我的...介意我快速过一遍这些吗？

You was talking about my you mind if I run through these for a second?

好的。

Yeah.

请讲。

Please.

让我先说明一下。

Well, let me let me preface this.

因为我想谈谈实验室检查的事。

So because I wanna talk about the labs.

你刚才提到我的炎症问题。

You were talking about my inflammation.

但我找了Gary Brecken。

But I got with Gary Brecken.

我做了血液检查，这也是我强烈建议体型较大的人去做的事。

I did a blood test, and this is something else I encourage big people to do.

而且基础医疗服务通常都会报销这项检查。

And your basic provider will pay for it more often than not.

如果你有标准保险，直接告诉他们你想做个标准血液检查。

If you have just like a standard insurance, just tell them you wanna run a just standard blood lab.

但要告诉他们不只是测糖化血红蛋白，重要的是要看你的胰岛素水平。

But tell them instead of just your a one c, this is important, you wanna see your insulin level.

因为我虽然患有糖尿病，但并没有胰岛素抵抗。

Because I was diabetic, but I wasn't insulin resistant.

我第一次检查时的糖尿病指标是6.4，刚好达到糖尿病前期的临界值。

So my diabetic marker, when I first got checked, was a six point my a one c was a 6.4, okay, which is the threshold of what being a diabetic is, the pre diabetic.

糖尿病前期的最后临界点就是6.4。

The last point of being a pre diabetic is 6.4.

我原以为连续十五年体检显示处于糖尿病前期没什么大不了的。

And I thought that when you are when your blood work says you're a pre diabetic for fifteen years, it's whatever.

你懂我意思吗？

You know what I mean?

就像，这又不会要了我的命。

Like, this is not gonna kill me or nothing.

是的，我有过。

I've had yeah.

上次检查结果就是这么说的。

That's what it said last time.

我没事。

I'm fine.

最后他们终于检查了我的胰岛素水平。

And then finally, they checked for my insulin.

乔，数值超过了40。

It was over 40, Joe.

简直高得离谱。

It was, like, insane.

我不想得这个...正常值应该是多少来着？

I don't wanna get this What's it supposed to be?

正常值应该在5以下。

It's, like, under five.

哦，天哪。

Oh, Jesus.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以当你禁食时，身体会先消耗掉所有胰岛素，然后才开始燃烧储备脂肪。

So what happens is when your body goes to burn when you fast, it has to burn through all your insulin before it'll start burning through your reserved fat.

所以当你的血液中胰岛素水平这么高时，你几乎永远无法进入脂肪燃烧阶段，因为胰岛素水平一直居高不下。

So when you're at that high of an insulin level in your blood, you're having to fast so you're hardly ever getting to the resort fat burnage because it's just constant insulin.

对。

Right.

这就是G01P药物发挥作用的地方。

And this is where G01Ps come in.

现在正是讨论这个的好时机。

Be This'd a great time to talk about this.

所以Gary说，嘿，你的胰岛素水平很高。

So Gary goes, hey, Your insulin's high.

我们就给你打一针，这能改变一切。

We'll just give you a shot, and this will change all this.

我当时觉得，酷。

And I was like, cool.

来吧。

Send it.

随便吧。

Whatever.

我试试看。

I'll try it.

然后我妻子的经理米米开始打这种针。

And then my my wife's manager, Mimi, started the shot.

对她效果神奇，但她出现了最严重的胃部问题。

Did wonders for her, but she had the worst stomach issues.

我的胃也不好。

I have a bad stomach.

我开始打电话问别人：'嘿，这个针剂效果怎么样？'

I started calling people and going, Hey, How's this shot working?

我当时说：'老兄，我们在掉体重了'

I was like, Dude, we're losing weight.

食物杂念消失了

Food noise is gone.

你得试试这个

You gotta try it.

我当时问：'有什么副作用吗？'

I was like, What's the side effect?

大概就一个不好的副作用

There's like, One bad side effect.

它会严重伤害你的肠胃

It tears your gut up.

我当时...我有很严重的胃酸反流

And I was I had a So I had bad reflux.

要知道，这对歌手来说是最糟糕的情况。

And you know, that's the worst thing a singer can have.

对我们来说，没有什么比胃酸反流更糟的了。

Nothing is worse for us than reflux.

所以我被它吓到了。

So I got scared of it.

于是我打电话给加里，我说，加里，我做不到。

So I called Gary, I was like, Gary, I can't do it.

我害怕它。

I'm afraid of it.

于是我开始做研究，我想，好吧，如果我不这么做，我就得通过禁食来大幅降低胰岛素水平。

So then I started doing research, and I was like, well, if I'm not gonna do this, I'm gonna have to fast to get my insulin levels down a lot.

所以我开始禁食，但体重几乎没怎么减。

So I was fasting, and I was losing, like, next to no weight.

而且我做的明明是对的。

And I was doing the right thing.

作为一个大块头，最令人鼓舞又最令人沮丧的事，乔，就是当你实际上没有对人们撒谎的时候。

And as a big dude, that's the most encouraging thing, Joe, discouraging thing, is when you're actually not lying to people.

因为，你知道，作为一个胖子，我就像吸毒者一样被程序化地大声说出来。

Because, you know, as a fat person, I'm I'm programmed aloud like a drug addict.

比如，你今天吃了什么？

Like, what'd you eat today?

哦，烤鸡和沙拉。

Oh, grilled chicken and salads.

但其实我刚吃了七条士力架。

And I just ate seven Snickers.

你懂吗？

You know?

所以我总是把它当作小事一桩搪塞过去。

So it's like or I brush it off like a big thing.

我的营养师会进来问我，昨晚我走后你是不是又偷吃东西了？

My my nutritionist would come in and be like, did you eat something last night after I left?

我会说，是啊。

I'd be like, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我就吃了一点点。

I just ate a little bit.

不算糟。

Not bad.

就一点点。

Just a little bit.

有点糟糕。

Little bit bad.

但我不会具体说这点糟糕是什么程度。

But I wouldn't quantify what little bit bad was.

就像，你知道的，我当时正处于——我想开始对整个过程里的一切都更加诚实，这可能是最重要的事。

It was like, you know, it's like So I was just in a I wanted to start being way, way more honest about everything in the process, and that was probably the biggest thing.

所以我不会减肥，我就说，我向你保证，伊恩，除了你给我的东西，我什么都没吃，老兄。

So I would not lose the weight, and I'm like, promise you, Ian, I didn't eat nothing but what you handed me, Bubba.

他就说，坚持下去就好。

He's like, Just stick with it.

我就一直坚持着，一直坚持着。

I just stayed with it, stayed with it.

然后加里变成了加里·布雷卡并接管了世界，我很幸运，在德克萨斯这里遇到了你的朋友，一个叫布里格姆的家伙。

And then Gary got turned into Gary Breca and took over the world, and I was lucky for me, I bumped into your friend, a guy named Brigham down here in Texas.

他介绍我认识了丹尼斯——你见过丹尼斯的。

And he introduced me you've met Denise.

对吧？

Right?

丹尼斯？

Denise?

当然。

Sure.

我爱她。

I love her.

这位女士是真正让我开始这段旅程的加里引荐的，我永远感激不尽，但她让这一切圆满实现了。

This lady's the lady who really Gary started this journey for me, and I'll never be able to thank him enough for it, but she brought it home.

加里本来可能也会帮忙，但她有实体店更方便接触。

And Gary probably would have, but she she had a brick and mortar and was just easier to get to.

加里经常周游世界。

Gary travels the world.

我去找她复查时，通过禁食我的胰岛素指标降到了37左右。

And I go to her and she goes she runs my blood again, my insulin got down to, like, 37 by fasting.

她说：'你反对G01P治疗方案对吧？'

And she goes, You're against the G01Ps, aren't you?

我回答：'都坚持到这地步了，现在不想打折扣糊弄过去。'

I was like, Well, I made it this far, and I don't want do it with an asterisk now.

现在纯粹就是倔脾气在撑着了。

Now it's just stubbornness.

最初，这一切始于恐惧。

At first, it started out of a fear.

现在我就是他妈固执，你懂吗？

Now I'm just fucking stubborn, you know?

而在这里，我不想隐瞒我做过的任何事，因为我觉得这能帮助他人。

And this is where I don't want to hide anything that I did do because I think it'll help people.

她说，'还有替代方案'。

She said, There's an alternative.

她说，'如果你服用二甲双胍的四分之一剂量——他们给糖尿病患者开的通常是2000毫克——我们给你500毫克，这是非常低的剂量，每天一次，直到我们看到这个指标下降'。

She said, if you took a fourth of a dose of metformin, which two thousand milligrams is what they would prescribe a diabetic one, let's say we give you five hundred milligrams, which is a real low dose, once a day, until we just see this marker go down.

说可能需要一年时间，因为我们不想操之过急，用一堆GL1类药物强行压制。

Said it might take a year because we're not trying to rush it and throw a bunch of GL1s at it.

我们就想，我们要慢慢来。

We're like, we're We're gonna do this really slow.

我们就是这么做的。

And that's what we did.

第一个月我听从了她的建议，当时我在减重——我今天看了Leanne的笔记。

And the first month I listened to her and I was losing I think I looked at Leanne's notes today.

我们当时每月减掉4到6磅。

We were losing four to six pounds a month.

后来这个数字上升到了12、13磅，就是我们期待的那个数值，你懂我意思吧，对于我这个体型的人来说。

Then it got up to that twelve and thirteen, that number we were looking for, you know what I mean, of what we expect from a guy my size.

但过程就是这么简单。

But it was just that easy.

现在我来说说胰岛素的情况——我铺垫这么多就是为了告诉你这个。

Now my insulin So I said all that to give you this.

噢，我太兴奋了，Joe。

Oh, I'm so excited about this, Joe.

我的胰岛素水平曾经超过40。

My insulin was over 40.

两周前在Weighs to Well诊所，Denise医生测出我的胰岛素值是4.6。

My insulin two weeks ago at Weighs to Well with doctor Denise was 4.6.

我的糖化血红蛋白数值高得离谱。

My a one c was crazy.

对吧？

Right?

而且我们才从去年十一月开始服用二甲双胍，到现在才一年。

And that was just we've only been on the metformin for a year in November.

所以我觉得现在可以停药了。

So I think we're gonna come off of it now.

糖化血红蛋白数值是64。

A one c was 64.

现在降到54了——这个指标反映的是你三个月内的平均血糖水平。

It's now 54, which that marker is a three month average of your blood sugar.

要知道，能下降这么多真的很惊人。

Like, that's a real number to move that much.

虽然一年时间看起来这个数字变化不大，但这真的很不可思议。

I know it doesn't seem like a big number in a year, but that's, like, crazy.

我的C反应蛋白之前高达6点多，现在降到1.2了。

My c reactive was like in the sixes, and it's 1.2 now.

这是个炎症指标。

That's an inflammation marker.

维生素D水平之前一直很低只有28，那会儿我总生病。

Vitamin d, while I was getting sick all the time, was a 28.

现在维生素D水平是100。

Vitamin d's at a 100.

这个变化也很关键，这时候你会问：你是自然健身吗？

This was the big one too, and this is where you say, are you natty?

我会回答：不是的，先生。

I say, no, sir.

绝对不是。

Absolutely not.

我是个40岁的男性。

I'm a 40 year old male.

我绝不可能保持自然状态。

There's no way I was going to be natty.

当你体型那么大的时候，我的睾酮水平却像个青春期前的小孩。

My testosterone was one of a pre juvenile child when you're that big.

哇哦。

Wow.

当时只有五十几（单位）。

It was in the fifties.

天啊。

Jeez.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

正常应该在七百五十左右。

Should be in, the seven fifties.

是啊。

Yeah.

我的游离睾酮值是2.3，乔·罗根。

My free test was 2.3, Joe Rogan.

我的天啊。

Oh my god.

你知道我现在的游离睾酮值是多少吗？

My free test you know what it is today?

01:49。

01:49.

还记得我们之前讨论过我和我妻子之间的问题吗？

I fucking you remember that problem we talked about with my wife?

记得。

Yeah.

现在没有了。

Not anymore.

我在家里走来走去像只老虎。

I'm walking around the house like a tiger.

我像个原始人一样把她扛过肩头，每次见到她就把她扔到床上。

I'm throwing over my shoulder like a caveman and throwing her on the bed every time I see her.

你懂我意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

这感觉太棒了。

It is awesome.

你知道吗？

You know?

哇。

Wow.

这些变化实实在在的，我建议大家去验个血，可能真能发现问题。

And it shaped these were and I encourage people to, like, if you can get your blood checked, there might be something there.

你明白我意思吗？

You know what I mean?

可能不是什么大问题。

It might not be something big.

明白吗？

You know?

就算没有二甲双胍，我本来也能减重，只是可能要再多花一年时间。

I still could have lost the weight without the metformin, but it might have took another year.

懂我意思吗？

You know what I mean?

如果我当时只能每周勉强减掉一磅，因为必须先把胰岛素水平降下来。而那个检测帮了大忙，当然也帮助提升了睾酮水平——因为我雌激素太高而睾酮太低了。

If I would have just had to keep nicking it down a pound a week because I was just having to get that insulin down so And that helped a ton, the test, of course, helped bring because my estrogen was so high, my test was so low.

最终我把雌激素降下来，睾酮升上去，脂肪就开始燃烧了。

I finally got the estrogen down and the test up so the fat starts burning.

心理建设我已经做好了。

I'd done the mental work.

我开始真正弄清楚自己为什么会有那样的饮食习惯。

I'd started really figuring out why I was eating the way I was eating.

因为一旦我认清了行为模式，我的三个R法则就帮我改变了这一切。

Because once I recognized a pattern, my three r's changed it for me.

就是重置、重新连接、重新投入。

It was reset, reconnect, reengage.

所以每次当我走进食品柜想吃东西时，因为我有暴食症，我会停下来。

So every time I would go into my pantry to eat something, because I'm a binge eater, I'd stop.

我的治疗师在On-site教我这么做的。

My my my therapist taught me this at On-site.

我会停下来，然后重置状态。

I'd stop and I'd I'd reset.

所以我会走出来。

So I'd step out.

第一件事就是离开食品柜。

First thing, get out of the pantry.

这里不该是我待的地方。

Have no business in here.

这地方对我不好。

Bad place for me.

去一个我能感到安全并能与人交流的地方

Go somewhere I'm safe where I can connect.

靠近我妻子或其他安全的地方

Near my wife or somewhere safe.

重新连接

Reconnect.

你为什么要进食品储藏室？

What was you in the pantry for?

是哪个版本的你，哪个故事线中的你走进了那个储藏室？

What version of you, what storyline of yours walked in that pantry?

是15岁的吉莉吗？那个自以为是帮派成员、自以为是暴徒，实际上只是个无法与人建立联系的悲伤小男孩，只是想装酷？

Was it 15 year old Jilly that thought he was a gangbanger and thought he was a thug that was just trying to be cool that was actually a sad little boy that couldn't connect with people?

就是那个刚走进那里想吃些饼干的小男孩吗？

Is that the boy that just walked in there and tried to eat some cookies?

还是那个35岁或39岁因工作压力大的男人？

Or is this a 35 year old man or a 39 year old man that's stressed from work?

但我告诉你，你进去吃饼干绝不是因为你需要它们。

But I tell you what you're not in there eating the cookies for is because you need them.

你刚吃了一顿丰盛的大餐。

You just ate a great meal.

你感觉棒极了。

You feel fucking awesome.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

比如，那块饼干对你没有任何好处。

Like, there's nothing about that cookie that's good for you.

而且，Jason，你不是那种只吃一块饼干的人。

And also, Jason, you are not a one cookie kind of guy.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

你会把整袋饼干都吃掉的。

You are gonna go eat the bag of cookies.

明白吗？

You know?

然后然后然后我重新连接，重新投入。

And then then then I reconnect, then I reengage.

因为有时候你经历了这一切后会说，你知道吗？

Because sometimes you go through all that and you go, you know what, though?

我刚才在里面想着，但我确实需要去拿盐。

I was thinking in there, but I do need to go grab the salt.

直接进去拿了盐就出来。

Just go in there and grab the salt and get out.

但我现在的思维模式还是困在旧剧情里。

But where I'm so programmed is back to old storylines.

你懂的，我走进储藏室吃垃圾食品已经很多年了。

You I walk into some I've been going into the pantry to eat bad for so many years.

我走进去就忘了要拿什么。

I walk in there forget what I'm there for.

我必须这样，因为如果我坐得够久，就会觉得，哦，原来

I have to because if I sit there long enough, then it's like, oh, there's

有些东西吃了根本没什么影响

a There's some stuff that you can eat that does nothing.

比如，如果你只是想嚼点什么，伙计，来点芹菜和小萝卜

Like, you if you just wanna munch on something, man, get some celery and some radishes.

那些玩意儿几乎零热量

Those motherfuckers have, like, zero calories.

树莓和蓝莓对我帮助很大

Raspberries and blueberries were a big one for me.

它们不是零热量的

They don't have zero calories.

它们含有热量

They have calories.

但你可以吃 这就像是

But you could eat That's like

实际上

it's actually

对你有好处。

good for you.

一大桶它们，是的。

Bucket of them Yeah.

在你摄入数百卡路里之前。

Before you get into the hundreds of calories.

如果你想

If you wanna

吃些比如撒了盐的覆盆子，或者更准确说是撒了盐的萝卜和芹菜，那里面几乎没什么热量。

have some, like, raspberries with some salt on them or not some raspberries, rather, some radishes with some salt on them and some celery, there's nothing in that.

你只管吃，完全不用担心。

You just eat it, and you don't have to worry at all.

你只是摄入了一些纤维和营养素。

You're just getting some fiber and some nutrients.

是啊。

Yeah.

泡菜？

Pickles?

泡菜很棒。

Pickles are great.

泡菜也是我会选择的食物之一。

Pickles are another one I'd get on to.

早？

Early?

比如，如果你买到好的发酵泡菜，它们其实对肠道有益。

Like, if you get, like, good fermented pickles, they're actually good for your gut.

没错。

Yeah.

我确实...我早就把所有小窍门都试遍了。

I do I I did all the cheats early.

所以，当我说'作弊'时，意思是我饿了，于是我去找营养师说，嘿老兄。

So, like but when I say cheats, like, was hungry, so I I go to my nutritionist and go, hey, man.

只管给我看起来分量最多的食物。

Just feed me whatever looks like the most food.

你懂的，把量堆起来。

You know, fluff it up.

明白我意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我就是想要一大份食物，这是我的习惯。

Like, just I want a big serving of food because it's my thing.

现在很酷的是，我开始追求营养密度了。

And the cool thing is now I'm in a place where I'm looking for density.

看，我和食物的关系已经改变这么多。

Like, my relationship's changed that much with food.

现在我会想，这东西我真的非吃不可吗？

Now I'm looking like, yo, what is like, do I have to eat this?

这里面蛋白质够吗，还是说我只能吃一半？

Is there enough protein in this, or can I only eat half of it?

不是因为我和食物之间有什么奇怪的关系。

And not because I have the the weird relationship with food otherwise.

现在我只是根据自身需求来进食。

Now I'm just really feeding myself for what I need.

对。

Right.

没错。

Right.

你懂我意思吧？

You know what I mean?

说真的，我现在和食物是健康的关系，乔。

Like, I'm actually have a healthy relationship with food now, Joe.

比如我看着食物时，不会像以前那样不健康——要是你现在煎块大牛排，想来一块吗？

Like, I look at and it's not unhealthy in a way that was like, if you cooked a big steak right now, like, you want one?

我会说，好啊。

I'd be like, yeah.

绝对没问题。

Absolutely.

我可不想错过和乔一起吃大牛排的机会。

I don't wanna miss a big steak with Joe.

我准备好了。

I'm down.

我不奇怪。

I'm not weird.

如果去吃饭，我会吃的。

If we went to dinner, I'd eat.

你懂我意思吧？

You know what I mean?

我只是不吃面包而已。

I just wouldn't eat bread.

对。

Right.

有些东西对我来说就像吸毒上瘾一样戒不掉。

There's just certain things I haven't it's like a drug addict thing for me.

就像有些事无论如何我都做不到。

It's like there's just certain things I just can't do no matter what.

是啊。

Yeah.

面包就是其中之一。

Bread is the one.

面包和意大利面都是。

Bread and pasta are the one.

为什么偏偏是那些

Why does it have to be the ones that are so

该死的美味？

goddamn delicious?

所有好东西，老兄。

All the good stuff, dude.

哦，太美味了。

Oh, the So delicious.

不过顺便说一句，我学会了如何让所有好东西变得更好。

But I learned how to make all the good stuff better, by the way.

不是更好，而是Larios真的让我减重很多，就像我常听你说你开始做播客，和人们聊你感兴趣的话题。

Like, not better, but Larios is really so a lot of my weight losses come from, like, I used to always hear you say that you got into podcasting and talking to people about stuff you were just interested in.

嗯。

Mhmm.

就像你觉得很酷的对话。

Like, conversations you just thought were cool.

然后我就想，这就像是生活的态度。

And then I thought about that's like the approach to life.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

就像是，喜欢就去做。

It's like, get like dig it, do it.

懂吗？

You know?

然后从中汲取灵感。

And find draw inspiration from there.

没错。

Right.

所以我当时在看很棒的

So I was watching great

喜欢就去做。

dig it, do it.

如果你

If you

喜欢就去做。

dig it, do it.

是啊。

Yeah.

你懂的，喜欢就去做。

You know, dig it, do it.

有天晚上我在看UFC比赛，我也是个粉丝，那是六年前的事了。

And I was watching UFC one night, which I'm a fan too, and I was this was six years ago.

我当时就在想，不知道是谁在帮这些选手称体重。

And I was like, I wonder who's helping these guys get on the scale.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我当时觉得，这些拳手大多出身贫寒，不过这不是什么坏事。

I was like, most of these fighters are poor, not in a bad way.

你知道的，他们正在奋斗的路上。

You know, they're coming up.

我当时就想，我打赌我肯定能付得起同等报酬。

Was like, I bet I bet I could pay equal pay.

这是六年前的事了。

This was six years ago.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我当时就想，不知道是谁，然后我被介绍认识了乔治·洛克哈特。

I was like, I wonder who it is, and I got introduced to George Lockhart.

好的。

Okay.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

众所周知，他和迈克·多德西，我想，都是因为共同制定了现今的减重方案而闻名。

Which famously, him and Mike Dodci, I think, are kinda both famously known for the guys who created the weight cutting protocol of today.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道吗？

You know?

我给他打了电话。

And I called him.

他当时在乔治亚州度假。

He's in Georgia for the holidays.

他开车来田纳西州见我。

He drives up to Tennessee to see me.

最后我们一起玩了会儿。

We end up hanging out.

直到现在乔治和我还是好哥们。

George and me are buddies to this day.

乔治当时说：'听着，我来帮你找个合适的人'。

You know, George is like, Look, I'll let me find you a guy.

就这样他给我介绍了伊恩·拉里奥斯，刚来担任营养师。

And that's how he found me Ian Larios, who just came in to do nutritionists.

他参加过不少Bully Bees训练营，但一直跟着我工作。

He did a bunch of bully bees camps, but he's been with me.

人们说有人告诉过我这件事，乔。

People say I had somebody tell me this, Joe.

他说，当然，你减掉了体重。

He said, well, of course, you lost the weight.

这很简单。

It's easy.

你有钱。

You got money.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我当时就说，老兄，钱不能让你跑完这六英里。

I was like, buddy, money can't make you run these six miles.

不。

No.

每个这样说的人只是在为他们自己没做到找借口。

Everybody who says that is just making an excuse for why they haven't done it themselves.

是的。

Yes.

你永远不能说'你当然能做到'这种话。

You can never say, of course, you did it.

你有这个能力。

You have this.

直接他妈的去干就完了。

Just fucking do it.

直接去干就完了。

Just go do it.

干就完了。

Just do it.

而且，没错，这确实会很艰难。

And, yeah, it's gonna be hard.

特别是如果你的荷尔蒙紊乱、胰岛素水平失调，那确实会非常困难。

And especially if your hormones are all fucked up and your insulin levels all fucked up, it's gonna be hard.

但你能做到。

But you can do it.

最重要的是坚持到底，乔。

Well, the biggest thing too is stick with it, Joe.

是的。

Yes.

这是我的真心话，各位。

That's my heart, y'all.

就像全是我脑子里想的。

It's like It's all my mind.

为什么我说给自己一年时间，而不是三个月。

Why I said give yourself one year, not three months.

因为如果我给自己三个月时间，我就会很沮丧。

Because if I had gave myself three months, I'd have been upset.

我减掉的体重不够多。

I didn't lose enough weight.

事情没有按照预期发展。

It didn't go the way it's supposed to go.

我又会陷入羞耻的恶性循环。

I'd have went back into my shame spiral.

我们之前讨论过这个。

We were talking about this.

我的整个状态就是：压力、崩溃、暴食、羞耻、循环往复。

My whole thing was stress, overwhelm, food, shame, repeat.

这就是我的真实写照。

That's what I did.

是啊。

Yeah.

我曾深陷那个循环中。

I lived in that spiral.

没错。

Yeah.