#2428 - 迈克尔·P·马斯特斯

是啊，老兄。

Yeah, dude.

那是在我下来之前不久的事。

That was, like, right before I was coming down here.

你这玩笑真够烂的。

Like, you're That kidding sucks.

对那个。

To that.

是啊。

Yeah.

我摔断过好几根脚趾。

Well, I've broken a bunch of toes.

这真的很烦人。

It's it's very, very annoying.

这太

It's so

真烦人。

annoying.

你可以想象一下，如果你下面长的是两个巨大的该死的肘骨，而不是这些该死的小脚趾。

And you would imagine if you had two giant fucking elbow bones down there instead of these bitchy ass little toesies.

我知道。

I know.

也许这就是他们这么设计的原因。

Maybe that's why they did it.

也许这就是他们的真实情况。

Maybe that's what they got going on.

这确实有点道理，这会是一种适应性进化。

Kinda makes sense that that would be an adaptation.

刀枪不入的壮举。

Invincible feat.

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯，你知道，我们非常脆弱。

Well, you know, we're we're so vulnerable.

而且这是更奇怪的事情之一，首先，我们会谈到你的工作，因为你有一个非常有趣的理论。

We're and that's one of the weirder things, like so first, we should we'll get into what you do because you have you have a very interesting theory.

跟大家说说你的背景吧，

Tell everybody what your background is,

首先。

first of all.

嗯。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

这似乎是个不错的起点。

That does seem like a good place to start.

我的背景是人类学和生物人类学。

My background is in anthropology and biological anthropology.

我的研究主要集中在进化解剖学和生物医学方面。

My research mostly focuses on evolutionary anatomy, biomedicine.

我曾在世界各地，包括蒙大拿州，进行过一些考古工作。

I've done some archaeology in various places around the world in Montana.

但我来这里的原因，我想是因为我的朋友马特说，我们当时正在宰杀一头骡鹿，我想是我开的枪。

But the reason I'm here, I assume, because according to my friend Matt, we were were butchering a a mule deer, I think, I shot.

我当时说，是啊。

And I was like, yeah.

我得去参加这个会议。

I gotta go to this conference.

然后我问他：你想知道这个会议是关于什么的吗？

And I was like, do you wanna know what it's about?

他说：除了UFO，没人关心你做什么，老兄。

He's like, nobody gives a shit about what you do other than UFOs, man.

我当时想：该死。

I was like, damn it.

他说得对。

He's right.

事实上，我以前确实做过很多我觉得很酷的事情。

Like, I did actually used to do a lot of what I thought was cool stuff.

但主要的是，我因倡导一种观点而闻名，即UFO和外星人实际上是来自未来的时间旅行者，是我们人类的后代。

But, no, the the main thing is that I've I've become known for advocating for this idea that UFOs and the aliens are actually our time traveling future human descendants.

我甚至不会说这与地外生命对立，因为我确实也认为地外生命是其中的一部分。

I wouldn't even say as opposed to extraterrestrials because I do think that's a component too.

我经常被贴上标签。

I oftentimes get pigeonholed.

人们会说：‘哦，你就是觉得它们全是时间旅行者。’

People are like, oh, you just think they're all time travelers.

我不是这样想的。

I don't.

我其实经常这么说，但都没人在意。

I actually say this all the time, but it doesn't matter.

我认为确实有很多事情在发生。

I do think there's a lot going on.

但我的背景以及我之所以这样看待这个问题，是因为这些外星人身上有很多特征看起来非常像人科动物。

But but my background and and the reason I approach this question this way is because there's a lot of characteristics of these aliens that look so hominin.

它们看起来就跟我们一模一样。

They look just like us.

特别是，如果我们当前的进化趋势继续下去，我们预期在人类未来中看到的样子。

And specifically, what we'd expect to see in our hominin future if the same evolutionary trends continue into the future.

所以我只是把这些事情联系在一起。

So I kinda just tie those things together.

甚至那些碟形飞行器，似乎本身就是时间机器。

And even the the saucer shaped craft seemingly are time machines themselves.

所以这算是一个简要的版本。

So that's kind of the cliff notes version.

这是一个很多人独立得出的理论。

Well, it's a theory that a lot of people have independently sort of come to.

对吧？

Right?

尤其是最近。

Especially recently.

还有这个概念，如果你想想古代人类的话。

And the the concept of well, we just if you just think about ancient man.

昨晚我看了一个关于尼安德特人的纪录片，讲的是他们发现了一具保存完好的尼安德特人骨架，他死在了一个洞穴里，你知道，那些钟乳石还是石笋？

I was watching this documentary on Neanderthals last night about this one intact Neanderthal skeleton that they found that was it had sort of been he had died in a cave and, you know, the stalagmites is stalactites or mites?

该怎么说来着？

How do you say it?

高处是石幔。

Tights are up.

低处是石笋。

Mites are down.

所以他基本上被矿化了。

So he was essentially mineralized.

嗯。

Mhmm.

身体上到处都是东西，他们花了很长时间才把这具尸体清理出来。

There was stuff all over the body, and it took a long time for them to break this body.

我想我看过这个。

I think I saw that.

是在Netflix上看的吗？

Was that on Netflix?

不是。

No.

我当时看的是，也许最初是在Netflix上播的。

I was watching it on Maybe originally it was on Netflix.

但纪录片主要记录了他们发现的这具尸体有多奇特，它非常强壮，比我们还强壮。

But it was just documenting how strange this this body was that they had found, but it was immensely strong, like, stronger than us.

一个有趣的地方是，他们的视觉皮层——负责处理图像的大脑部分——比我们的大10%到20%。

One of the interesting things was that their visual cortex, the the the part of the brain that would process imagery was larger than ours, 10 to 20% larger.

嗯。

Yep.

而且这些生物可能拥有比我们更好的视力，甚至能在夜间视物，它们是比我们更庞大、更强壮的人类版本，比现代2025年的智人要坚韧得多。

And that these so these things probably had better eyesight than us, perhaps even were able to see at night, and that this was a bigger, stronger version of a human being, like, much more durable than what we are, modern twenty twenty five homo sapiens.

嗯。

Yep.

如果你只是看一下，没错。

If you just look yeah.

就是这样。

That's it.

所以这是其中之一。

So that's one of them.

酷。

Cool.

既不是人类，也不是尼安德特人。

Neither human nor Neanderthal.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

这是已发表的

This is a published

这可能不是同一个。

Is this the this might not be the same one.

这可能是另一个。

This is maybe a different one.

这很奇怪，因为它头上的那个玩意儿是什么？

That's a weird one because what's that fucking thing on its head?

上面就是这么写的。

That's what it says.

好像是从它上面长出来的钟乳石之类的。

It's a stalactite growing out of it or something.

哇。

Wow.

以一种奇怪的形式。

In a weird form.

奇怪。

Weird.

是的。

Yeah.

它像一只独角兽。

It's like a unicorn.

是的。

Yeah.

像一个冠饰。

Like a crest.

它们确实有一个矢状嵴。

They do they do have a sagittal ridge.

是的。

Yes.

直立人也有一个。

Homo Homo erectus had one.

在我们人科谱系中有一个分支，叫做傍人或粗壮南方古猿，它们有着完全像大猩猩一样的矢状嵴，真的吗？

Well, there's an offshoot in in our hominin lineage called the Paranthropus or robust australopithecines, and they had a full on, like, gorilla style Really?

矢状嵴。

Sagittal ridge.

是的。

Yeah.

因为它们是素食者，所以整天都在咀嚼。

Because they were vegetarians, so they just chewed all day.

对。

Right.

所以它们有巨大的咀嚼肌肉。

So they had massive muscles to chew.

是的。

Yeah.

他们的整个脸部都非常大。

Their whole face is huge.

哇。

Wow.

尼安德特人嘛，他们就是体型庞大。

Neanderthals kinda I mean, they were just big.

这只是一个粗壮性的问题，但在伊拉克的沙尼达尔洞穴中发现了他们用牙齿作为工具的证据。

It's just a robusticity thing, but there is evidence from Shanidar Cave in Iraq where they were using their teeth as tools.

我们认为他们是在处理兽皮。

We think they were, like, tannin hides.

他们把兽皮咬在嘴里，然后刮掉所有脏东西。

They were holding the hide in their mouth and then, like, scraping all the nasty bits off.

你可以在牙齿磨损痕迹中看到这一点。

And you can see that in the tooth wear.

所以，没错，他们确实很厉害。

So, yeah, they were they were pretty badass.

他们是第一个，我不知道。

They were the first I don't know.

我觉得这很酷，但很多人觉得我是个书呆子。

I think this is cool, but a lot of people think I'm a nerd too.

他们是第一个使用石片的人。

They were the first to to use the flake.

比如，在二百八十万年里，我们只是敲击一块石头，然后说，哦，这真是个不错的工具。

Like, for two point eight million years, we just hit a piece of rock and, like, oh, it's a cool tool.

但后来他们发现，如果以正确的方式敲击石头，掉下来的碎片会形成更好的工具。

But then they figured out that if you hit the rock in just the right way, the piece that falls off makes an even better tool.

这花了我们大约二百五十万年。

It took us, like, two point five.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

你制作了一个箭头。

You make an arrowhead.

从那时起，我在法国南部的一个地方工作了一个夏天，那是一个尼安德特人遗址。

And from that point on, like, I I got to work at a a place called in Southern France for a summer, and it was a Neanderthal site.

我们发现了这些工具，这挺有趣的，因为刚到那里时，这些工具被称为莫斯特手斧，属于舒利安传统手斧。

And we found these actually, it's pretty funny because when we first got there, these these tools called MTA hand axes, Mousterian, it was Schulian tradition hand axes.

在整个欧洲只发现了八件。

There were only eight found in all of Europe.

他们说，如果你们找到一件，我们就请你们喝够你们能喝的啤酒和白兰地。

And they said, if you guys find one of these, we'll buy you all the beer and all the cognac you can drink.

我们身处法国的白兰地产区。

We're in the cognac region of France.

我们在第四或第五天就找到了一件。

And we found one, like, the fourth or fifth day.

在那一周里，我们又陆续找到了另外七件。

We went on to find seven more over the course of that week.

我们把这种东西在全球的数量翻了一倍，哇。

We doubled the number of these things in existence Wow.

在整个欧洲，他们没骗我们。

In all of Europe, and they were not lying.

他们给我们买了好多好多啤酒。

They bought us so many damn beers.

考古学家都喜欢喝酒。

Like, archaeologists like to drink.

你知道吗？

You know?

我们挖掘的时候，无聊得要命。

That's we we dig, and it's boring as hell.

你知道吗？

You know?

这可不是《夺宝奇兵》。

It's not Indiana Jones.

我们可不是到处跑着追美女、坐飞机到处飞。

We're not running around banging hot chicks and flying on planes.

我们就是拿着一把勺子，一干就是八个小时。

We're like, we got a spoon, and we're doing this for eight hours.

所以，没错，我是在最后一天找到了最后一个，而且它绝对是其中最差的一个。

So, yeah, I actually found the last one on the last day, and it was by far the worst one.

我甚至得争辩说，这根本算不上是其中之一。

Like, I had to argue that this is even it should even count as one of these.

但没错，我知道那确实是个很酷的场景。

But, yeah, I know it was it was a cool sight.

所以，没错，他们表现得还不错，但我们表现得更好。

So, yeah, they were they were they were doing well, but we were doing better.

我们进场后

We came in and

取代了他们，我们取而代之。

replaced happened where we replaced them.

是的。

Yeah.

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This is an ad for BetterHelp.

假期伴随着许多传统：与家人团聚、制作一年仅做一次的菜肴，以及融入那些将大家凝聚在一起的小仪式。

The holidays come with a lot of traditions, gathering with family, cooking those once a year recipes, and leaning into the little rituals that bring everyone together.

这一直是我一直期待的事情。

That's something I always look forward to.

但还有一个传统，我认为我们在假期期间都应该开始践行，那就是为自己留出一些时间。

But there's another tradition I think we should all start doing during the holidays, and that's taking some time for ourselves.

这个季节，你为生活中其他人的事情做了很多事情。

This season, you do so many things for the other people in your life.

你围绕每个人的日程安排聚会。

You plan get togethers around everyone's schedule.

你花数小时挑选合适的礼物、烹制合适的菜肴，但你也同样值得获得关注。

You spend hours picking out the right gifts and cooking the right food, but you also deserve just as much attention.

否则你会精疲力尽的。

Otherwise, you'll burn yourself out.

所以善待自己，留点属于自己的时间吧。

So do yourself a favor and take some me time.

去打猎一趟。

Go on a hunting trip.

安静地读一晚上书。

Have a quiet night with a book.

甚至可以预约一次心理咨询。

Maybe even schedule a session with a therapist.

心理咨询是确保你关注自己真正需求的非常有效的方式，BetterHelp 可以轻松为你安排。

Therapy is an extremely effective way to make sure you're focusing on what you need, and BetterHelp can easily set you up.

他们拥有广泛的合格心理咨询师网络，并且会为你完成大部分准备工作。

They have access to a wide network of fully qualified therapists, and they do a lot of the work for you.

即使第一次匹配的咨询师不合适，你也可以轻松更换到另一位咨询师。

Even if that first match isn't a good fit, you can easily switch to another therapist.

今年十二月，通过照顾好自己，开启一个新的传统。

This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you.

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那就是 better,help,.com/jre。

That's better,help,.com/jre.

关键是，随着时间推移，当今的人类可能是有史以来最虚弱的一代人。

The point is, as time goes on, humans today are probably the most feeble version of humans that have ever existed.

当然。

Oh, for sure.

没错。

Yeah.

而且我们是过去一个世纪以来最虚弱的一代人。

And we're we're the most feeble versions of people that have existed within the last century.

对吧？

Right?

比如，如果你回看20世纪20年代的人类和2020年代的人类，现在人的睾酮水平低得多，流产率高得多，精子数量也低得多。

Like, if you go back to humans from the nineteen twenties versus humans from the twenty twenties, people have way less testosterone now, way or higher instances of miscarriages, way lower sperm count.

你知道，现在有很多因素正在改变人类的本质。

You know, there's a lot of factors that are at play right now that are changing what a human is.

如果你进行推演，展望未来，很自然会认为，我们可能会变得非常瘦弱。

And if you extrapolate, if you look at the future, you would naturally say, well, we're probably going to be very thin.

似乎至少存在某种推动，想要消除性别。

It seems like there's at least some sort of a push to eliminate gender.

性别似乎已经被提上议程，成为是否还有必要存在的问题。

Like, gender seems like it's on the table as whether or not it's even necessary.

各种新的技术革新正在带来可能性——至少在未来某个时候，会出现人工子宫。

There's all sorts of new technological innovations that are leading to the possibility, at least sometime in the future, of an artificial womb.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有CRISPR基因编辑技术以及其他多种正在探索的技术，我们或许能够设计人类，甚至在没有母亲、没有父亲的情况下创造出完整的人类个体。

There's genetic engineering with CRISPR and a a lot of other different technologies that are being explored that we might be able to engineer human beings and then even create a complete individual human being without a mother, without a father.

所以如果你想象一下未来会是什么样子，我们这个星球上的一个问题就是，所有人都有不同的意识形态、不同的宗教，来自世界不同的地方。

So if you thought about what that looks like in the future, like, one of our problems on on this planet is we all have different ideologies, different religions, come from different parts of the world.

我们的外貌也不同。

We look different.

作为部落性的灵长类动物，人类有将他人视为‘他者’的倾向。

And human beings, as tribal primates, have a tendency to other.

我们会将不同的部落视为‘他者’。

We other different tribes.

那些不是我们。

Those are not us.

我们才是我们。

We are us.

那些是敌人。

Those are the enemy.

我们会团结起来，共同对抗他们。

We go out You rally round it.

但如果每个人都完全相同，我们共享同一个意识，很多问题就会消失。

But if everybody's exactly the same and we share one mind, you know, then a lot of our problems go away.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我们不再需要为资源竞争，不再有繁衍后代、获取土地或拥有领地的欲望。

If we no longer have to compete for resources, we no longer have the desire to procreate and to acquire land and to be you know, to have a territory.

我们就能消除很多问题，这就是这些事物的样子。

We we eliminate a lot of our issues, and that's what these things look like.

当你观察那些原型性的、标志性的形状时，它们从洞穴壁画一直延续到第三类接触。

When you look at the archetypal, these iconic sort of shapes that have been on cave walls all the way up to close encounters with the third kind.

它们共同的一点是，它们没有肌肉。

One thing they share is that they have no muscle.

它们有着巨大的头部。

They have large heads.

它们有着大大的眼睛。

They have big eyes.

而且他们孩子气。

And they're childlike.

正如我们所说，他们非常幼态化。

They're very pedomorphic, as we say.

是的。

Yeah.

你刚刚把很多与这个理论相关的重要观点联系在一起了。

You just tied together, like, a lot of really important points related to this theory.

比如，为什么他们总是对我们的配子感兴趣，为什么他们会回来，把那个小装置放在男人身上收集精液，为什么他们不断从女性身上取卵、植入胚胎，之后又把胚胎取出来。

Aspects of why they're always interested in our gametes, why they come back and put that little machine on a man to collect semen, why they're constantly taking eggs from females and implanting fetuses, pulling them back out later.

显然，他们专注于繁殖和配子采集。

Like, they're clearly focused on reproduction, gamete extraction.

而如果这些是未来的人类，我们姑且假设一下，可能推动这一行为的原因是，他们正面临由自我驯化、 feminization（女性化）趋势以及精子数量下降直接导致的问题——全球大多数人口、工业化国家的精子数量下降了百分之六十，全球范围内下降了百分之五十。

And one of the things that might be fueling that in the future, if these are future humans, let's just assume for a second hypothetically, is that they might be having problems directly resulting from these trends towards self domestication, these trends toward feminization, these trends toward reduced sperm counts, which is sixty percent across most populations of the world, the industrialized world, fifty percent across the entire world.

是的。

Yeah.

生殖方面的问题，体外受精和人工子宫可能有助于解决一些胎儿在体外发育的问题。

Problems with reproduction, in vitro fertilization, exogenesis chambers might help solve some of those problems growing the the fetus outside of the body.

所以，是的。

So so yeah.

就像你所说的，他们长什么样呢？

And and like you said, you know, what do they look like?

他们在某种程度上看起来像是男女的混合体，但仍然保留着性别的本质。

They look like kind of a hybrid between males and females to some extent, but there's still an essence of gender.

比如，如果你和惠特利·斯特里伯交谈，你知道，他提到那个豆子。

Like, if you talk to Whitley Strieber, you know, he's with this bean.

他在《交流》中说，我有一种感觉，她是个女人。

He he says in communion that I had a sense that she was a woman.

我不知道为什么，但我就是有这种感觉。

I don't know why, but I kinda sensed that.

所以，这几乎意味着个体的本质、灵魂仍然保留着这种性别认同，尽管我们的身体正变得越来越孩子气、越来越不分性别。

So it's almost like the the essence of the individual, the soul of the individual still retains that sort of gender identity even though our bodies are becoming more childlike, more gender indiscriminate.

我不知道。

I don't know.

但没错，这又是我们作为物种可能共同进化的一种方式。

But, yeah, yet another one of those ways in which we might sort of grow together as a species.

当你说到他们提取精子时，这些故事你认真对待多少呢？

Now when you say they are extracting sperm, like, many of these stories do you take seriously?

这类故事太多了。

There's a lot of these stories.

这是个很好的问题。

It's a great question.

没错。

Yeah.

你知道，不幸的是，对于任何一种流行文化中的壮观事件，比如外星人绑架，无论是惠特利·斯特里伯的《交流》还是哈佛的那位写了什么书的约翰·麦克？

You know, there's unfortunately, for any sort of spectacular public thing that's in the zeitgeist, like alien abduction, whether it's Whitley Strieber from communion or the John Mac books, the guy from Harvard that wrote what was it?

绑架？

Abduction?

宇宙护照

Passport to the cosmos

和绑架。

and abduction.

是的。

Yeah.

两本好书。

Two great books.

好书。

Great books.

但这些书都讲述的是遭遇，与来自其他地方的某种存在发生的第三次近距离接触。

But these are all books about encounters, close encounters of the third kind with some sort of a being from another place.

不管是什么，它都不是人类，至少在技术上似乎比我们更先进。

Whatever it is, it's just not a human being, and it seems to be techno technologically, at least, superior to us.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且看起来，它们都具备一种共同点，似乎能够通过心灵感应或 telepathy 进行交流。

And it seems to be one thing they all seem to share as they seem to be able to communicate telekinetically or telepathically.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

它们虽然不是人类，但又非常像人类。

And, I mean, they they aren't human, but they are very human too.

因此，比如，这是我最初开始探索这个主题的主要原因之一。

So for instance, like, that that's one of the main reasons I started exploring this.

我实际上是在八九岁时被卷入其中的，当时发生了一件奇怪的事——我被绑架了，这仿佛激活了我，让我走上了这条道路。

I was actually kind of put into this when I was eight or nine years old, sort of activated in a way and put on this path by a weird thing that happened to me when I was kidnapped.

对你吗？

To you?

嗯，我在我的前两本书《识别的飞行物》和《地外模型》中提到过，我了解到我父亲经历过一次亲密接触。

Well, so I talk about it in my first two books, Identified Flying Objects and the Extraterrestrial Model, where my I learned about a close encounter that my dad had.

他是一名兽医，住在俄亥俄州东北部，我就是在那儿长大的。有一天晚上，他和另一个家伙外出出诊。

He was a veterinarian in Northeast Ohio where I grew up, and he was out one night on a call with another guy.

从司法和伊内克可靠性量表来看，由于有多个目击者，可靠性更高。

So there's two people as far as jail and Ineck's reliability scale has more reliability because there's multiple witnesses.

在他的量表上，这件事也很奇怪，因为他们翻过了山丘。

It's also strange on his scale because they crested the hill.

有一道明亮的光。

There's a bright light.

这是阿米什人居住的地区。

This is an Amish country.

阿米什地区没有灯光。

There's no lights in Amish country.

突然间，这道明亮的光迅速朝他飞来，悬停在他们的卡车正上方，然后迅速返回原处，再以惊人的速度直冲云霄。

And all of a sudden, this bright light darts toward him, hovers just above their truck, darts back to where it was, and straight up into space, like, at incredible speed.

这件事发生在我出生之前，但我有一天晚上无意中听到他给朋友们讲这个故事。

So this happened before I was born, but I overheard him telling a story to some friends one night.

他像大多数人一样在二十世纪八十年代读了惠特利·斯特里伯的《接触》这本书，而且他们确实应该读，因为这是一本好书。

He got Whitley Strieber's book communion as most people did in the nineteen eighties and as they should because it's a great book.

我走进了客厅。

And I walked into the living room.

那本书正面朝外摆在书架上。

The book is sitting on the shelf facing out.

我记得，就像昨天发生的一样，我突然停住了，眼前出现了一道白光。

And I remember, like, it was yesterday, I sort of stopped, and there was, like, this light, like, a white light.

接着，我脑海中浮现出一幅画面：一个类似早期人猿的生物、现代人类，以及封面那个典型的灰色外星人形象，伴随着这些信息。

And then I saw this image in my mind of, like, an early hominin chimpanzee like creature, a modern human, and then that archetypal gray alien from the cover with this information.

如果它们有关联呢？

What if they're related?

如果它们是我们来自未来的自己呢？

What if they are us from the future?

显然，这正是我成为生物人类学家的原因。

And, obviously I mean, that's why I became a biological anthropologist.

人们总是说，所以

People are always like So

你看到了吗？

you saw this?

是的。

Yeah.

那就像一道闪光，一道光。

It was like a a flash, like a light.

现在回头看，这感觉很奇怪，因为我对这些经历了解得更多了。

And I you know, it's weird looking back on it because I know a lot more about these experiences.

我跟一些有过类似经历的人聊过。

I've talked to people that have had these types of experiences.

当时的环境是怎样的？

What was the setting?

是在我们的客厅里。

It was our living room.

所以你一进门，左边就是客厅，有个内置书架，威利的书就摆在那儿。

So it was like the you come in the front door and just to the left, there's this living room, built in bookshelf, Willie's books right there.

我刚转过拐角，看到它，然后那种感觉就突然来了。

I just turned the corner, saw it, and then, like, just kinda it just came.

我当时对进化生物学一无所知。

Like, I didn't know shit about evolutionary biology.

我也不知道是怎么回事。

I didn't know about how?

在我脑海中浮现了。

Saw In my mind.

就是一片白色。

Just this white

光，只是一个画面。

light Just an image.

还有那个画面中的三张脸，接着一个问题浮现：它们会是我们来自未来的样子吗？

And those that image of the three faces and then the question, could they be us from the future?

很多人问我，你是怎么开始研究UFO的？

And a lot of people are like, how'd you get into UFOs?

你明明是个生物人类学家啊。

Like, you're you're a biological anthropologist.

这恰恰相反。

It's the opposite.

我进入生物人类学领域，就是为了研究这个问题：它们会不会是我们来自未来的自己？

I got into biological anthropology to research this question of whether they could be us from the future.

所以

So

所以当时，你感觉这不仅仅是个奇怪的想法或梦境。

so this you you felt like at that moment, it wasn't just like a a weird thought or a dream.

它像是一种启示。

It felt like a message.

那种感觉是怎样的？

Like, what did it feel like?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这确实是一种任务。

It it was some it was a tasking.

你知道，我认为鲁珀特·谢尔德雷克说过，人们并没有想法。

You know, I I think I think Rupert Sheldrake said it that that people don't have ideas.

是想法在利用人。

Ideas have people.

我觉得那就是，嘿。

I think that was like the, hey.

去做这件事吧。

Go do this thing.

于是我照做了。

And I did.

这就是我们现在在这里讨论它的原因。

That's why we're here now talking about it.

而且，显然，你得小心选择偏差和确认偏差。

And, obviously, you know, you gotta be careful about, like, selection bias and confirmation bias.

比如，我并没有一开始就打算这样。

Like, I didn't go into this.

我并没有去读研究生。

I didn't go into grad school.

我也没告诉研究生院里的任何人我去了那里，因为他们会把我开除。

I also didn't tell anybody in grad school I was there because they would have kicked me out.

但我带着开放的心态进入了这个领域，之所以这么做，是因为我八岁时发生的那件事。

But I went into it with an open mind, but I was there to study these things because of that event when I was eight years old.

哇。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

确认偏误确实是个问题。

It's it is a problem, the confirmation bias.

当你希望它真实存在时，这种偏误就会出现，我也为此挣扎，因为我非常希望它是真的。

It is a problem with wanting it to be real, and I struggle with that because I desperately want it to be real.

所以每次我跟人交谈时，你知道，我接触过很多所谓的‘吹哨人’，其中一些人，我确信是被派来传播这些信息的。

And so every time I talk to someone, you know, I've talked to a bunch of people that are, you know, air quote whistleblowers, and some of them, I think, for sure, have been sent in here to distribute this information.

是的。

Yeah.

毫无疑问。

No doubt.

当然。

For sure.

因为这里是个绝佳的传播场所。

Because it's a great place to do it.

是的。

Yeah.

我会听你说。

I'll listen to you.

嗯。

Yeah.

我几乎愿意考虑任何事情。

I'll entertain almost anything.

这很好。

Which is great.

我们需要这样。

We need that.

嗯。

Yeah.

你知道的？

You know?

但当然，会有人利用这一点。

But, yeah, I mean, obviously, there's people that are gonna take advantage of it.

但我觉得我也必须说，我不太信服。

But I think it's also important for me to say, I'm not convinced.

你知道，我不确定这其中有多少是胡说八道，但肯定不是零。

I, you know, I don't know how much of this is horseshit, but it's not zero.

没错。

No.

而这正是你的问题：我该如何……是的。

And and that was your question is how how do I Yeah.

如何区分这些不同情况？

Differentiate among these different cases?

我参考了海尼克斯在他的书《UFO体验》中的观点。

I do draw from Hynix in in his book, The UFO Experience.

他列出了我们应该如何根据可信度尺度和奇异度尺度来对待这个问题。

He lists out how we all should approach this based on the reliability scale and the strangeness scale.

雅克·瓦莱也借鉴了这一点，并将其融入隐形学院及其所有研究中。

Jacques Vallee also drew from that, helped him develop it as part of the Invisible College and all of his work.

但不管我个人的判断如何，我的第二本书《超常异象模型》包含了30个案例研究，其中15个是主要案例，我还引用了其他一些案例，探讨了不同的理论。

But regardless of like my own personal discernment, my second book, The Extra Tempestral Model is about 30 case studies, 15 main case studies, but then I pull in other ones, and it explores the different theories.

显然，最主要的是这个超常异象的概念，也就是未来——顺便说一句，我今天看到了每日一词。

Obviously, the main one being this extratempestrial idea, this future, which by the way, I saw the word of the day.

今天这个词是‘时代错置的’，我当时就想，天啊，这个词比‘超常异象’好多了，后者大家都觉得难记。

Today was anachronistic, And I was like, man, that would have been a way better word than extra tempestria, which everybody struggles with.

我本可以称他们为‘时代错置者’。

I could have called them anacronauts.

哦。

Oh.

这听起来是不是很酷？

Doesn't that sound cool?

这确实听起来很酷。

That does sound cool.

时代错置者。

Anacronauts.

哦，这听起来真酷。

Oh, that sounds really cool.

我知道。

I know.

我到底在想什么啊，老兄？

What the hell is I thinking, man?

好吧，不管怎样，你学到的这个词。

Well Anyway The word you learn.

但无论你认为哪些是胡说八道，哪些是确有其事，所有案例中最常被提及的一点是，他们真的很想要我们的精子。

But so one of the most commonly reported things across all cases, regardless of what you think is bullshit or you think this definitely happened, is they really want our sperm.

他们真的需要或想要我们的生殖细胞，我们的配子。

They really need or want our reproductive material, our gametes.

有趣的是，我写第一本书是在2020年，但其实我从2012年就开始写了，2019年才出版。

And it's funny because when I wrote my first book in '20 I started in 2012, published it in 2019.

就在书的结尾，我做了一次采访，有人问我：你听说过吉姆·佩尼斯顿吗？

Right at the end, I did an interview, and someone's like, have you heard of Jim Peniston?

我回答说没有，这某种程度上是我的疏忽。

I'm like, no, which is kind of a failing on my behalf.

我承认这一点。

I'll admit that one.

结果发现，那是伦德尔沙姆森林事件。

It turns out so it was the Rendlesham Forrest incident.

他接触了他们的飞行器。

He touched his craft.

他得到了一段二进制代码，当破译这段代码时，对方明确表示：我们来自未来。

He got this binary code, and he, when deciphering the binary code, they legitimately specifically said, we are you from the future.

我们的繁殖出了问题。

We're having problems with reproduction.

他接受了催眠回溯。

He underwent hypnotic regression.

我们的繁殖出了问题，我们需要这种遗传物质来帮助我们自己。

We're having problems with reproduction, and we need this genetic material to help ourselves.

你知道吗，很多人会问，为什么他们一再回来对我们做这些事？

You know, a lot of people are like, well, why are they coming back and doing stuff to us?

我认为他们回来是为了从我们这里获取东西，因为他们在繁殖方面遇到了问题，这和你之前提到的精子数量减少、女性不孕等问题密切相关。

I think they're coming back and getting stuff from us because of problems they're having largely related to what you were talking about earlier with the reduced sperm counts, the problem with female infertility.

如果我们试图通过基因编辑技术CRISPR创造完美的基因样本，或治愈这些遗传疾病，但搞砸了，我们可能不得不回到过去。

What if we do try to create the perfect human specimen or we try to cure these genetic diseases through genetic manipulation CRISPR and we screw something up, we might have to come back.

但我们无法前往其他星球。

Though we can't go to another planet.

这些星球上并没有人类。

There aren't people on these planets.

我们无法去这些地方采集生殖细胞。

We can't go and sample gametes from these other places.

我们可能不得不回到过去，获取那些未经人为改造的野生型生殖细胞，以解决这些问题。

We might have to go into our past to get those wild type un unmanipulated gametes in order to fix these problems.

天啊，这需要多么惊人的技术 sophistication 啊——能够穿越时间，还不破坏导致这一切的时间线，这正是关于时间旅行一直被理论化的难题。

God, that's that's a crazy level of technological sophistication, the ability to venture back in time and somehow another not fuck up the timeline that's leading to I mean, this is the problem that's always been theorized about time travel.

你任何行为，如果你回到过去，任何互动都会彻底改变未来的走向。

Anything that you do, if you went back in time, any interactions, you would completely change how the future would play out.

在多重宇宙解释中。

In the many worlds interpretation.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这个想法不幸地非常普遍，主要归因于《回到未来》，我认为这部电影毁了大多数人的思维。

So that idea is unfortunately very pervasive and mostly because of Back to the Future, which I think ruins the brains of most people.

我的也是。

Mine too.

当然，在我的……是的。

Certainly in my Yeah.

我这一代人。

My my generation.

但大多数物理学家对许多事情意见不一，不过大多数人同意我们生活在一个被称为‘块宇宙’、‘景观时间’或‘块时间’的结构中，如果你想象从大爆炸开始到宇宙终结、所有物质消失或坍缩成黑洞或发生其他任何情况的每一个时刻，所有时刻都已存在。

But what most physicists physicists don't agree on many things, but most agree that we live in what's called a block universe, landscape time, block time, where if you imagine all moments from the very beginning of the big bang to the end of the universe where all matter disappear appears into like a black hole or contracts or whatever it does, all moments are already there.

它们作为一个包含所有时刻、所有世界线的庞大四维块而存在。

They exist as this massive four dimensional block of all moments, all world lines, everything.

所以当你回到你所感知的过去时，你可以做任何你想做的事。

So you go back into the past as you perceive it, you can do whatever you want.

你可以四处走动，踩死蝴蝶，打别人耳光，踢翻恐龙，或者做任何你想做的事。

You can walk around, step on butterflies, you know, slap people on the face, kick over, you know, dinosaurs or whatever.

我认为我们不可能回到那么远的过去，但你可以做任何想做的事，这并不会改变任何东西，因为你是在块宇宙中回到过去，做那些你本来就已经会做的事。

I don't think we can go back that far, but you could do anything you want and it doesn't change anything because you're going back in the block universe and doing those things you were always already going to do.

当你回到家时，一切都没变，因为那本来就是他们的过去。

And when you get home, everything's the same because that was already their past.

对所有留在原地的人来说，那本来就是他们的过去。

To everybody that stayed behind, that was already their past.

对你而言，回到过去做那些你本来就会做的事，只是未来的事；而你只是去做了那些你本来就会做的事，回到家后，一切都没变，因为你从一开始就已经注定要做那些事。

It was only the future for you to go back and do those things that you were already gonna do, and then you just went and did them, get home, everything's the same because you were always gonna do those things in the first place.

这太奇怪了。

That's bizarre.

这很难接受。

That that's hard

吞下去。

to swallow.

如果这真的是宇宙的模型，而且again，我只能在写书时进行推演，只能基于我们现在所知的内容。

If that is the actual model of the universe and, again, I can only work in writing these books, I can only work from what we know now.

显然，我们还有很多不知道的东西。

Clearly, there's a lot of things we don't know.

我并不声称自己知道任何超越我们当前认知范围的事物。

I'm not claiming to know anything beyond what we can know right now.

但物理学家们，尽管不知道时间究竟是什么，却知道它是一种涌现现象。

But physicists, despite not knowing what time is, they know it's an emergent phenomenon.

时间源自某种更基本的东西，但他们对块宇宙模型达成了共识。

There's something more fundamental that time comes from, but they do agree on this block universe model.

在这种情况下，就不存在悖论。

And in that case, there is no paradox.

他们怎么

How do they

都同意这一点呢？

all agree on that?

难道你不必须去验证它，提出某种假设，然后尝试证明或证伪它吗？

Like, wouldn't you have to test that and come up with some sort of a hypothesis and then try to prove it or disprove it?

我不该说他们都同意，因为量子力学有多个世界诠释，在那种情况下，如果你回到过去，情况就会改变。

How I shouldn't say they all agree because there is the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics where if you went back in that situation, it would be changed.

你会改变时间线。

You would be changing the timeline.

是改变你的时间线，还是改变另一个时间线，这才是问题所在。

Would it be changing your timeline, or would it be changing a different timeline is the question.

而且

And

你怎么知道呢？

how would you know?

改变事物比不改变事物会带来更多的悖论。

There there's more paradoxes with changing things than not changing things.

你为什么如此自信地断言他们无法回到恐龙时代？

Why do you confidently state that you don't think that they can go back to the dinosaur age?

部分原因有三个。

Partly because three different reasons.

第一，我认为要回到过去，需要极其高速的运动。

One, I think they need tremendously high speed in order to be able to go back into the past.

所以，再次基于我在这个时代所能获取的所有信息，以及我在2012年至2025年间所拥有的有限原始灵长类知识，我基本上是从爱因斯坦1905年发表的《论动体的电动力学》相对论开始的。

So, basically, again, working from all I can work from in this time with the limited primitive primate knowledge that I have in the year 2012 to 2025, I basically just started with Einstein's theory of relativity, which he published in nineteen o five on the electrodynamics of moving bodies.

然后在1915年，他发表了广义相对论的论文。

And then in 1915, he published his paper on general relativity.

从那时起，几乎立即就出现了他场方程的解，表明只要具备适当参数——比如一个巨大、高能量、高速旋转的环、球体或盘状物——就能产生闭合类时曲线，使光锥朝向过去定向，从而实现物理上回到过去。

From that point on, almost instantly, there were solutions to his field equations that showed with the right parameters of a massively highly energetic rotating ring or sphere or disc that you could create closed time like curves, that you could actually orient light cones back toward the past so you can physically go into the past.

我们在1917年和1918年伦茨和廷根的研究中就看到了这一点。

We saw this with Lenz and Thuring in, like, 1917 and '18.

库尔特·哥德尔。

Kurt Godel.

哥德尔宇宙是在那之后不久出现的，我想是在二十年代左右。

Godel universe was not long after in, I think, the twenties maybe.

然后在二十世纪七十年代，弗兰克·蒂普勒数学上证明了你可以将它缩小成一个圆盘。

And then importantly in nineteen seventies, you had Frank Tipler who showed mathematically that you can shrink that down to a disc.

他确实称之为圆盘。

He actually called it a disc.

这也是我认为它们是时间机器的原因之一，因为它们具备了弗兰克·蒂普勒所描述的所有参数。

And it's one of the reasons I think that these are time machines is because it has all of the parameters described by Frank Tipler.

他并没有谈论UFO，但它们似乎具备在时间中瞬移进出的能力。

He wasn't talking about UFOs, but it they seemingly have the ability to jump in and out of time.

它们会突然出现和消失。

They appear and disappear.

我说得太多了，马上结束。

And I'm talking too much, so I'll wrap this up in a second.

但是

But

你绝对没有说得太多。

You're definitely not talking too much.

我的意思是，我们在这里就是为了聊天，但我内心有个开关，让我想：闭嘴吧，各位大师。

Well, I mean, we're here to talk, but I I have an internal trigger where I'm like, shut up, masters.

你说到

You're talking too

别听那个，让它继续说。

Don't listen to that Let it roll.

所以，不管怎样，如果你看看我们对逆向时间旅行的理解历史，我认为它们正在将广义相对论和狭义相对论结合起来。

So, anyway, you know, if you look at the history of how we understand backward time travel, what I think they're doing is that I think they're combining general relativity and special relativity.

所以我认为它们通过让这些物体高速旋转，将光锥指向过去。

So I think they're orienting the light cones toward the past by rotating these things really, really fast.

你经常听到这种说法。

You hear that all the time.

它们启动了。

They power up.

它们在旋转，或者至少外面有一个飞轮在旋转。

They're spinning, or at least there's some sort of flywheel on the outside that's spinning.

我认为这就是它们能够向过去移动的原因，然后它们就起飞了。

I think that's what's allowing them to move toward the past, and then they take off.

所以，正是这种高速让我认为它们能够进入更远的过去。

So it's that high speed that I think allows them to go further into the past.

所以它们利用了——你肯定知道双生子佯谬。

So they're using you're aware of the twins paradox, I'm sure.

时间膨胀，就是有两个双胞胎的情况。

Time dilation, where you have two twins.

他们年龄相同。

They're the same age.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后其中一个登上了一艘宇宙飞船。

And then one goes into a spaceship.

他们以极高的速度移动。

They move at tremendously high speed.

他们返回时，比双胞胎兄弟年轻得多，因为地球上的时间流逝得更快。

They come back, and they're much younger than their twin because time moved faster back on Earth.

我认为，他们利用这种高速运动，结合光锥朝向过去的方向，通过时间膨胀效应来更深入地穿越到过去。

I think they're using that high speed motion while light cones are oriented toward the past in order to travel deeper into the past through that process of time dilation.

我们能到达的速度是有极限的。

There are limits to how fast we can go.

爱因斯坦对此非常坚定，因为随着你相对于光速的速度增加，惯性力也会增大。

Einstein was very adamant about this because there's an increase in inertial forces the faster you go relative to the speed of light.

这就是他认为我们永远无法达到光速的原因。

That's why he thought we could never go.

这就是他认为任何有质量的物体都不可能超过光速的原因。

That's why he thought that anything with mass could never go faster than the speed of light.

光可以做到，因为它是一种波、一种粒子，或者两者兼是。

Light can do it because it's a wave or a particle or both.

所以我认为我们能到达的速度是有极限的。

So I think there's a a limit to how fast we can go.

另一个原因是吉姆·佩尼斯顿在催眠回归中提到过。

The other reason is because Jim Peniston in this hypnotic regression said that.

他说，我们只能回到四万到六万年前，否则可能就回不来了。

He's like, we can only go forty to sixty thousand years into the past or we might not get back.

你还要考虑到，这是一个更富推测性的观点，权当参考。

You also have and this is a more speculative one, so take it for what it's worth.

你还得看看丹·布里希的证词，关于那个所谓的被俘外星人J-Rod，他说我们来自未来。

You also have the Dan Burish testimony of this j rod, this allegedly captured alien who said we're from the future.

我们来自你的未来，大约是五万五千到六万年后的未来。

We are you from the future, and we're from about fifty five to sixty thousand years in your future.

因此，这三者共同说明了为什么我认为我们不可能回到六千五百万年前去猎杀恐龙，虽然那确实会很有趣。

So those three things together are why I don't think we could go back sixty five million years to hunt dinosaurs, which actually would be kind of fun.

当你谈论光速时，你指的是非传统的推进方式，而是一种能让你以惊人速度前进的推进形式。

When you when talking about going the speed of light, you're talking about not traditional propulsion, but some form of propulsion that allows you to go at insane speeds.

是的。

Yeah.

看起来是电磁力。

Electromagnetic is what it seems to be.

而且重要的是，电磁力比引力强10的40次方倍。

And and importantly, the electromagnetic force is 10 to the 40 times more powerful than gravity.

所以我不但认为他们用这种力来飞行，还认为他们用它来操控时空。

So not only do I think that's what they used to fly, I think that's what they used to manipulate space time.

实际上，丹·伯里什并不是丹·伯里什。

Actually, and and Dan Burrish is not Dan Burrish.

是丹·法拉。

Dan Farrah.

我想你之前也请过他参加《披露时代》节目。

I think you just had him on too, the age of disclosure.

是的。

Yes.

在结尾处，哈尔·普特霍夫，我认为还有埃里克·戴维斯，也谈到了这个时空泡泡。

There's this really cool thing at the end where Hal Putoff and I think Eric Davis as well were talking about this space time bubble.

对吧？

Right?

发生了一件非常奇怪的事。

A really weird thing happened.

我们稍后再谈这个，但我也不想跳来跳去，否则我会让别人和我自己都跟不上。

We can get to that in a second, but I don't wanna jump around too much because I'll lose people and myself probably.

但我认为，他们围绕飞行器形成的这个时空泡泡，也表明他们正在操控时空，穿梭于时间之中。

But this space time bubble that they form around the craft, I think, is also indicative of the fact that they're manipulating space time, that they're traveling in and out of time.

他们用它来伪装，就在众目睽睽之下隐藏起来。

They use it to hide in plain sight.

他们操控自己相对于我们的运动速率，在他们的参考系中快速地在我们周围穿梭。

They manipulate the rate at which they move relative to us in their frame of reference, and they're moving fast all around us.

他们让泡泡外的时间变慢了，所以对它们来说，外面的一切都极其缓慢，它们可以轻松躲避我们的子弹和导弹。

And they've slowed time down outside of that bubble, so everything is really, really slow to them, and they can easily evade our bullets and our missiles.

但我们看不到它们，因为我们没有那样的感知帧率。

But we don't see them because we don't have that frame rate of perception.

如果你放慢视频，我相信你经常看到这样的画面：当你放慢帧率后，就能看到一个碟形飞行器缓缓掠过天空。

And and if you slow videos down, I'm sure you've seen these all the time where there's like a and then you slow it down and you can see this saucer shaped craft moving slowly across the sky once you slow down the frame rate.

但发生了一件很有趣的事，因为我以前从未跟任何人提起过这件事。

But a really funny thing happened because I've I've never actually talked about this with anyone before.

我之所以能被人认识，很大程度上要归功于哈尔·帕特福。

I owe a lot of the fact that anybody even knows who I am to help Putoff.

当我2018年首次公开谈论这个话题，然后在2019年出版了我的书《识别飞行物》时，他联系了当时MUFON的负责人，对方正在筹备第50届MUFON会议，他就说：‘你应该让迈克·马斯特斯来谈谈。’

He when I first started talking about this publicly in 2018, and then I published my book in 2019, Identified Flying Objects, he, I guess, reached out to the head of Mufon at the time who was putting together the fiftieth Mufon event and was like, hey, you should have this Mike Masters guy come talk.

我是从MUFON的负责人那里得知这件事的。

And I found that out from the head of Mufon.

他跟我说：‘嘿，顺便告诉你，哈尔·帕特福居然推荐我联系你。’

He's like, hey, just so you know, Hal Putoff of all people recommended I contact you.

我不知道他是谁。

I had no idea who that is.

于是我上网搜索了哈尔·普托夫。

So I get on the Internet and I Google Hal Putoff.

他还在我认为他与杰西·迈克尔斯和魏斯坦进行了一次采访后，把我们联系了起来。

He also put Jesse Michaels, mutual friend, in touch with me after I think he did an interview with him and Weinstein.

我忘记他的名字了。

I forget his name.

埃里克？

Eric?

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以他采访了那两个人。

So he did an interview with those two.

我想哈尔是说：嘿。

I guess Hal was like, hey.

你应该联系麦卡斯特斯，他这么做了，我们聊过，还一起做过一些事情。

You should reach out to McMasters, and he did, and we talked, we've done stuff together.

但有趣的是，在《披露》这部电影的结尾，当他谈到时空气泡时，我想起了我的第一本书出版后，有人联系我，自称是X情报人员，并在2019年向我解释了完全相同的事情——这些物体并不会进行会碾碎内部任何东西的十万G的机动。

But what was cool is that at the end of that age of disclosure film when he's talking about the space time bubble, I thought back to after my first book came out, and I was contacted by someone who claimed to be an x intelligence person who explained that exact same thing to me back in 2019, that these things aren't doing 10,000 g maneuvers that would crush anything inside.

对他们来说，在他们的参考系中，感受完全不同于我们所看到的。

To them, in their frame of reference, what they feel is completely different than what we see.

因为在那个时空气泡中，他们可以以每小时五万英里的速度移动，然后一个右转，从外部看会把里面的一切都压碎，因为巨大的G力。

Because in that space time bubble, they can be moving at 50,000 miles an hour, do a right hand turn, and it would splatter anything inside because of the g forces.

那正是我们从外部看到的情况。

That's what we see on the outside.

但在那个时空气泡里，他们可能最多只感受到一到两个G。

But in that space time bubble, they probably feel one, two g's at the most.

所以我开始想，天啊，那是哈尔吗？

So I started thinking, man, was that Hal?

哈尔是不是用另一个邮箱联系我，说嘿。

Did Hal reach out to me with, a different email address and say, hey.

只是让你知道，这些事情就是这样发生的。

Just so you know, this is how these things are happening.

这就是它们能够做到的方式。

This is how they're able to do it.

我当时真是个傻瓜。

And I was a dumbass.

我到现在还是个傻瓜。

I still am a dumbass.

但那时候我更是个超级大傻瓜。

But I was an extra big dumbass back then.

我当时就想，哦，酷。

And I was like, oh, cool.

谢谢，老兄。

Thanks, man.

你知道吗，有个关于我书籍的故事火了，福克斯新闻和太空网都报道了。

You know, like a a story went viral about my books and Fox News picked it up and space.com.

所以我正在查看一堆邮件。

And so I was going through a bunch of emails.

他们意识到我没理解他们的意思。

They recognized I wasn't getting what they were saying.

我没跟上他们的思路。

I was not picking up what they were putting down.

他们说：不。

And they were like, no.

这很重要。

This is important.

他们又说了一遍，然后我恍然大悟。

Said it again, and then it clicked.

我当时就想，哦，对啊。

I was like, oh, yeah.

这完全说得通。

That makes perfect sense.

他们正在操纵飞船周围这个气泡内时间流逝的速率，而我们看到的却是完全不同的东西。

They're manipulating the rate at which time passes in this bubble around the craft, and we see something completely different.

所以当我们看到这个时，我们在想象我们能做什么。

So when we're seeing this, we are imagining what we can do.

我们某种程度上在说，我们能做的事情的先进版本会是什么？

And we're sort of saying, well, what would be an advanced version of what we can do?

这项技术是远远超越我们目前任何理论设想的，无论是关于未来技术发展的任何可能性。

And what this technology is is something that's levels of magnitude beyond even our theoretical, like, any sort of idea that we have currently about, you know, potential future timelines of technology.

没错。

Yeah.

因为根本没人谈论过那种能让你瞬间穿越宇宙巨大距离的引力气泡。

Because there's no one talking about gravity bubbles that allow you to instantaneously traverse immense gaps in the universe.