第2435期 - 布莱德利·库珀

所以所有这些人都是真实的。

So all those people are real.

但观众方面，我不记得邮件里具体说了什么，或者当时是怎么要求的，但就是那些喜欢去看脱口秀、经常去的人。

But then the patrons, we've I can't remember what the email was or what the the the the the ask was, but, like, people who like to go to stand up comedy, who go who go regularly.

一旦他们到场，我从没告诉他们会发生什么。

And then once they were there, I never told them what was gonna happen.

我从未指导过他们一次。

I never directed them once.

他们笑什么，就让它自然发生。

It was like whatever the they're laughing at, that's it.

我很少拍很多遍。

And I don't do many takes.

所以你得到的是真实的反应。

So you're getting an authentic reaction.

现在因为有摄像机和电影的氛围，气氛被烘托得更热烈了，但他们并不知道该做什么。

Now it's hyped up because there's cameras there and it's a movie, but they're not told what to do.

就是这种感觉。

It feels like that.

所以在后期制作中，我们根本没添加任何东西。

And so and even in the mix, like, we never added anything.

没有添加任何笑声。

There was no added laugh.

什么都没加。

Nothing.

哦，太棒了。

Oh, that's great.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这都是因为我坚持要真实。

It's all because I was like, it's just gotta be real.

因为我希望威尔只是，你知道的，我不想让他表演。

Because I wanted Will to just you know, I just don't want him to act.

对吧？

Right?

我只是想

I just want

他能去，这就是为什么，你知道的，谢恩·吉利斯很慷慨。

him to and that's why, you know, you Shane Gillis was kind enough.

他第一次上台就是在母舰这里。

The first time he went up was here at the mothership.

谢恩给了他四分钟的表演时间，然后我和我、威尔还有我飞到了奥斯汀，我们坐在休息室里。

Shane gave him four minutes of his set, and he and I and Will and I flew to Austin, and we're sitting in the green room.

谢恩迟到了一个半小时，托尼也在那里，他非常友善。

And Shane was like an hour and a half late, and Tony was there, and he was so nice.

我以前从没见过托尼，就是在那里我闻到了那股味道。

I'd never met Tony before, and that's where I smelled the thing.

你知道，我做了这个，哦，

Know, I did this Oh,

这气味也太棒了。

the smell is awesome too.

我。

Me.

这玩意儿也不是闹着玩的。

That shit is no joke too.

对。

Yeah.

那是威尔回首次登台，我们当时只是试了试那些段子，以亚历克斯·诺瓦克的身份上台。

And and that was the first time Will ever went up, and we we were just trying some of that material and went up as Alex Novak.

因为我想，作为一个演员，什么时候才能真正有机会去实践你一直在准备的事情呢？

Because I was like, when do you have an opportunity as an actor to actually do the thing you're preparing to do?

就像，你可以，对。

Like, you can Right.

想想看这花了多少钱。

And, like, think about how much that cost.

你走进一个有真实人的房间。

Like, you go into a room where there's real people.

对。

Right.

每一步你都在一个俱乐部里。

It's all and then every step that you're taking, you're in a club.

所以他这么做了。

So he did that.

当我们回到纽约后，他每周做三次，每晚四到五次，持续了大约六周。

And then when we back went back to New York, he did it, like, three times a week, four or five times a night for, like, six weeks.

哇。

Wow.

只是为了理解那是什么感觉。

Just so he could understand what it's like.

有些人并不认识他。

And some people didn't know who he was.

你知道的，有很多游客会来纽约市。

You know, you get a lot of tourists come in to New York City.

嗯。

Mhmm.

有些晚上，当他报出亚历克斯·诺瓦克的名字时，人家就只是说，不错。

And there were nights where you knew that he when he said Alex Novak, they're like, cool.

对。

Right.

并不是说你不是亚历克斯·诺瓦克。

Not like you're not Alex Novak.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

让我们看看你有什么。

Let's see what you got.

所以那真的很棒。

And so that was really that was really great.

谁写了这部电影？

How did you who wrote this film?

他和一个叫马克·查佩尔的人一起写的。

He wrote it with this guy Mark Chappell.

这部电影是基于一位名叫约翰·毕晓普的喜剧演员，他是一位真正的喜剧演员。

It was it was a movie that was more about his based on this guy, John Bishop, who's a real comedian.

他是英国非常成功的喜剧演员。

He's a very successful comedian in The UK.

他在一艘驳船上遇到了那个人，他们聊起了他的故事。

And and he Will met that guy on a barge somewhere, and and he was at talking about his story.

他就说，嗯。

And he was like, yeah.

我当时在做别的事情。

I was in I was doing something else.

我和我妻子正在分手，有一天晚上我走进了一家酒吧。

My wife and I were breaking up, and I walked into a bar a pub one night.

我不想付入场费。

I didn't wanna pay the cover.

这件事真的发生在那个家伙身上。

That really happened to this guy.

所以他报了名，然后他们叫了他。

So he put his name down, and then they called him.

然后他就说，嗯。

And then he was like, yeah.

我正在离婚，说了几句让人发笑的话，但他特别喜欢。

I'm getting a divorce and got a couple chuckles, but he just loved it.

他以前从没做过喜剧，之前什么都没干过，但他一直回去表演。

Never done comedy, nothing before that, he kept going back.

他对此着了迷。

And he like was obsessed by it.

几周后，他的前妻带着朋友走进了他参加开放麦的场所，而他正在表演关于他们关系的段子。

And then like weeks later, his wife estranged wife walked into a place he was doing an open mic at with her girlfriends, and he was doing a set about their relationship.

这确实发生了。

So that actually happened.

哇。

Wow.

我知道。

I know.

然后他们和好了，到现在还在一起。

And then they got back together, and they're still together.

现在他到处巡回演出。

And then now he, like, he tours around the world.

他靠当喜剧演员谋生。

Like, he makes a living as a comedian.

这太不可思议了。

That's incredible.

是啊。

Yeah.

当他告诉我这些时，我正在拍另一部电影，我记得我当时问：‘你正在做什么项目？’

So when he was telling me that, I was doing another movie, and I remember I was like, what are you working on?

因为我们已经做了二十五年的朋友。

Cause we've been friends for for like twenty five years.

他跟我讲这些的时候，我就在想威尔，因为我太了解他了，他如此有魅力、幽默，而且有一种独特的气场。

And and he was telling me that, and I was like, I just imagine Will because I know him so well, and he's so charismatic and funny and just has this presence that that is kinda lacking.

我觉得现在市场上没有一个男性角色类型能匹配他。

I don't feel like there's like a male archetype now that fits him.

他就像罗伯特·米彻姆。

He's like he's like Robert Mitchum.

他让我想起年轻时的罗伯特·米彻姆，威尔·阿奈特。

He reminds me like a young Robert Mitchum Will Arnett.

他告诉我，我就像那个单口喜剧演员，他的声音和那张脸。

And he's telling me that I'm like, his voice and like that face stand up comic.

我就是说不出来。

I just couldn't get it out

在我脑子里挥之不去，乔。

of my head, Joe.

我就说，嘿，老兄。

And I was like, hey, man.

我能看看剧本吗？

Like, can can I read it?

你们进展到哪儿了？

Like, how far along are you guys?

我读了之后，觉得还没完全到位。

And I read it and I was like, I didn't quite.

因为像你一样，我从未看过一部我觉得完美呈现了这一点的电影，而我如此热爱单口喜剧。

Because like you, I had never seen a movie that I thought nailed it, and I love stand up comedy so much.

我当时就想，我根本不想去重新演绎它。

I was like and I have no desire to try to redo it.

而且现在喜剧领域太庞大了，那些特别节目如此出色、如此富有电影感，根本没必要去拍一部虚构电影来讲述我们完全可以看纪录片、纪实系列或真实节目就能感受到的内容。

And also comedy is so massive right now, and and the specials are so great and cinematic right now that there's no reason to try to make a fictional movie about something that we can watch as a documentary or a docu series or a show that is authentic.

我当时就想，但我仍然非常希望以电影的方式捕捉它。

I was like, so but I still would really love to capture it cinematically.

那如果把它当作对比，电影讲的是他们两个人的故事呢？

So what if it's a foil and the movie's about the two of them?

因为那样很有趣。

Because that's interesting.

是的。

Yes.

而你真差劲。

And you suck.

嗯，那是乔丹说的一段精彩场景：

Well, that was one of the great scenes where Jordan was like,

你很糟糕。

you're bad.

你真的很糟糕。

You're really bad.

这其实更多是关于单口喜剧本身，还有你在节目中提到的，任何让你走出舒适区的事情，没错。

And it's much more about just what what stand up comedy with anything, and you talk about this on your show, doing anything that puts you out of your comfort zone Yeah.

任何能推动你的事情，都会让你作为一个普通人变得更好。

Anything that pushes you, you're gonna you're gonna improve as a human being.

整个事情的核心其实就是这个。

That was really what that that whole thing is about.

我就是喜欢这种文化和世界，我觉得那里有太多具体的东西能让我在电影和故事层面感到兴奋。

And I just love the culture in the world, and I thought there's so much tangible stuff there for me to get excited about cinematically and story wise.

但其实，它本来可以是任何事情。

But, really, it's like it could have been anything.

是的。

Yeah.

就是一些他从未做过、却让自己走出舒适区的事情，通过不断尝试，他渐渐变得越来越自在。

Just something that he'd never done that had he had puts himself out there, and that in doing it and doing it, he just sort of gets more comfortable.

然后，话筒从支架上拿下来，他靠在了墙上。

And, you know, and then the mic comes off the stand, and then he's leaning against the wall.

而影片的结构设计让他能够在结尾完成那段吸血鬼段子，那时他只是在释放内心的情感，因为他在这个环境中已经感到自在了。

And by the end of it, and then the way it was structured, it allows him to do that vampire set at the end of the movie where all he's doing is exercising what he's feeling emotionally because he's comfortable in this setting.

是的。

Yeah.

因为过去的他，在阁楼里和她争吵时，只会把所有情绪都憋在心里。

Because the old him, when he has that fight with her in the attic, he just woulda kept that all inside.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他也会在电影开头我们见到他的孩子集会上变得呆滞，因为你根本不知道该如何应对所有这些情绪。

And he would have been catatonic at his kid's assembly where we meet him in the beginning of the movie because you just don't know what to do with all that.

但如果你有一个出口，一种表达的方式

But if you have an outlet, something expressive

是的。

Yes.

你可以以一种健康的方式去释放它。

You can you can, you know, exercise it in a healthy way.

是的。

Yeah.

所以那就是那个，那就是真正

So that that's what that that's that really

整个这部分的核心就是脱口秀和开放麦。

was the point of that whole part of it being stand up comedy and open mic.

你真正抓住了一个人第一次尝试时的状态。

What you really nailed is someone trying it for the first time.

你们真的把这一点把握得很到位。

You you guys really nailed that.

你真的把喜剧新手演得特别到位。

You really nailed a beginner in comedy.

看起来完全真实。

Like, seemed completely realistic.

太棒了。

Great.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得这就是Kill Tony这么受欢迎的原因之一。

And, like, I think that's one of the reasons why Kill Tony is so popular.

没错。

Yes.

你知道的？

You know?

因为你能看到。

Because you get to see.

是的。

Yes.

你无法复制那种从未上过单口喜剧舞台的人的原始真实感。

You can't that that raw reality of someone who has never done stand up before.

比如，有人在麦迪逊广场花园、在一万六千人面前首次登台表演单口喜剧。

Like, there was people that went up at Madison Square Garden in front of 16,000 people that had never done stand up before.

老兄，老兄。

Dude, dude.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

这是谁懂的？

That's this this is who knows?

别那样做。

Don't do that.

是的。

Yeah.

你应该在一个烟雾缭绕的房间里。

You should be in a fucking smoky room.

好吧，现在不那么烟雾弥漫了，但得在一个小得要命的房间里，周围都是心不在焉的人，大家都在砸场子，你也跟着砸。

Well, not smoky anymore, but a tiny fucking room where disinterested people, where everyone's bombing and you bomb to it.

这没什么大不了的。

It's not that big a deal.

对。

Right.

因为你可能有些潜力。

Because you might have some potential.

但如果你在一万六千人面前彻底砸了，那种痛苦，你可能永远都缓不过来。

But if you fucking bomb in front of 16,000 people, the pain of that, you may never recover.

还有，想想看，因为你会通过音响听到自己的声音，那种回响效果。

Also, think about the like, because you're gonna hear your voice through the, you know, echoing.

它不能只是单纯地在里面。

It's it's can't be just in it.

比如，我想象那里会有回声。

Like, so there I imagine there's an echo.

所以你不仅是在搞砸，还在听到它回荡。

So you're not only bombing, but you're hearing it reverberate.

你其实感觉不到回声。

You don't really feel the echo.

你听不到回声，因为舞台上你有监听音箱，声音传到你那里是很平的。

You don't hear the echo because you you have monitors on stage, so it's coming to you pretty flat.

好吧。

Okay.

但你从未听过自己的声音通过麦克风传出来时是什么样子。

But the noise of your voice where you've never heard your voice into a microphone before ever.

对。

Right.

现在你站在一万六千人面前表演。

And now you're in front of 16,000 people doing it.

然后托尼坐在那里看着你，谢恩也在，我也在。

And then Tony's sitting there looking at you, and Shane's there, and I'm there.

这就像一场噩梦。

It's like a nightmare.

就像你走进了一场噩梦。

It's like you're you're walking into a nightmare.

那又怎样？

Well, what?

在像谢恩·吉利斯这样的人面前单口喜剧，简直疯狂。

Just doing stand up in front of, like, a guy like Shane Gillis is crazy.

疯狂。

Crazy.

就坐在你旁边。

Sitting right next to you.

你从来没说过单口喜剧。

You've never done stand up.

你就要在一位能卖爆体育馆的喜剧演员旁边说单口喜剧。

You're gonna do stand up right next to a guy who's selling out arenas.

这简直疯了。

Like, that's nuts.

是啊。

Yeah.

那种感觉太疯狂了。

That feeling is nuts.

但观看这一切很棒，因为你正在实时见证真实的反应。

But it's wonderful to watch because you're watching authentic reactions happening in real time.

没错。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

如果你的新年决心是彻底改变，做个全新的人，祝你好运。

If your New Year's resolution was change everything and be a new person, good luck.

所以别再假装你会永远准备羽衣甘蓝餐，或者每天早上泡冰水了，这里有一个真正现实的建议：AG1。

So instead of pretending you're going to meal prep kale forever or do morning cold plunges, here's one actually realistic thing, AG one.

AG1是一种日常健康饮品，有助于提升你的能量、肠道健康和免疫健康，并填补常见的营养缺口。

AG1 is a daily health drink that supports your energy, gut health, immune health, and helps fill common nutrient gaps.

每天早上只需将一勺倒入冷水中，就可以开始了。

Just one scoop in cold water each morning and you're off.

它含有75多种维生素、矿物质、益生菌和全食物成分。

It's got over 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food ingredients in there.

所以，与其猜测自己是否需要益生菌或益生元，或者在十多种瓶瓶罐罐的药片和粉剂中挑来挑去，你只需一勺，就能轻松搞定，继续你的日常。

So instead of guessing whether you need a probiotic or a prebiotic or sorting through 10 different bottles of pills and powders, you can just do one scoop and get on with your day.

它很棒，因为这感觉像是成熟人士的选择，但这一次，它真的非常简单。

It's great because it feels like the grown up move, but for once, it's actually really easy.

只需要大约三十秒，你就能感受到那种为全天奠定基础的稳定感。

It takes, like, thirty seconds, and you'll notice the steadiness that sets you up for the day.

不会过度兴奋，也不会崩溃，只是充满正常人应有的能量。

Not wired, not crashing, just functional human being energy.

我多年来一直与AG One合作，如果你想试试，可以前往drinkag1.com/joerogan。

I partnered with AG One for years, and if you wanna give it a try, head to drinkag1.com/joerogan.

在限时优惠期间，你首次订阅AG1时将免费获得一个AG1邮差包和一份AG1欢迎礼包。

And for a limited time, you'll get a free a g one duffel bag and free a g one welcome kit with your first a g one subscription order.

数量有限，仅限此刻，访问drinkag1.com/joerogan或查看描述中的链接即可开始。

Only while supplies last, that's drinkag1.com/joerogan or visit the link in the description to get started.

它没有经过加工。

It's not processed.

它是你能吃到的最纯净的精神食物。

It's it's as as clean a mental food as you're gonna get.

确实如此。

It's true.

是的。

Yeah.

只是我觉得，人类真的很喜欢看别人刚开始做某件事时的样子。

It's just that we I think human beings really love seeing what it's like when someone starts out doing something.

因为很多人心里都有这样的想法：哦，也许我可以试试，或者也许我可以学弹吉他，或者也许我可以做那个。

Because a lot of people have these ideas like, oh, maybe I could try that, or maybe I could learn how to play guitar, or maybe I could do that.

但刚开始时笨手笨脚、表现糟糕，对很多人来说都太可怕了。

But it's just the getting going and sucking at something in the beginning is terrifying for people.

所以当他们看到有人真的去尝试时，他们会想：看，他真在干啊。

So when they see someone just try it, I think they're like, oh, look at him go.

看，他真在干啊。

Look at him go.

他就在那儿行动了。

He's out there doing it.

没错。

Right.

他骑在自行车上。

He's on the bike.

他在移动。

He's moving.

你知道吗？

You know?

就像你看到真实的人在尝试他们从未做过的事情，这令人兴奋。

It's like you see actual people that are trying to do something that they've never done before, and it's exciting.

而且，还有就是

And, also, the the the one thing

我想谈谈的是它的技艺

I wanted to touch on is the craft of it

你知道，这需要很多努力。

all, you know, that it's that it takes a lot of work.

我知道这不仅仅是写作，你知道的。

I know that it's not you know, just, you know, the writing.

你知道吗，她提到过这一点。

You know, she says that one point.

她说，你必须写作，而且要坚持不断前进。

She's like, you gotta write, you know, and keep going up.

我认为大多数人——至少在我开始之前，我并不知道，人们一晚上会上去三四次。

And I think most people, at least I didn't know before I started going, that people go up three or four times a night.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我当时并不了解，所以我觉得有必要传达这一点，那就是所需的工作态度。

Like, I didn't under and so that was something I thought it was important to convey, just the work ethic that's needed.

纽约在这方面真的很棒，而且一直都有这样的文化。

Well, New York is really great for that, and it's always had a culture of that.

它一直有着人们从一个俱乐部跳到另一个俱乐部、一场接一场表演的文化，因为曼哈顿有太多俱乐部了。

It's had a culture of guys hopping from club to club and doing set to set because there's so many clubs in in Manhattan.

所以人们就会，你知道，我听说最多的一个家伙一晚上表演了八到九场。

So guys would just you know, I think the most guy I ever heard one guy did eight eight or nine sets a night.

哇。

Wow.

就像那样，那里有那么多俱乐部。

Like, they're just like that that's how many clubs there are.

所以你到处赶场。

So you just hop all over the place.

你晚上八点就开始了。

You start your night at, like, 8PM.

是的。

Yeah.

在下城。

Downtown.

下城有很多地方可以去表演。

A ton downtown that you can go up to.

是的。

Yeah.

你可以到处去。

You can go all over the place.

我们现在这儿有很多这样的地方。

It's we've got a lot of that here now.

现在奥斯汀的俱乐部太多了。

There's just so many clubs in Austin now.

我的意思是，我们去的时候，你打造的东西简直太棒了。

I mean, when we went there, what you built is incredible.

谢谢。

Thank you.

这是一种文化。

It's Culture.

方方面面都是。

Everything.

你知道吗，我给一个已经十五年没表演过单口喜剧的喜剧演员看了这部电影，他说你们唯一肯定搞错的就是文化。

You know, I showed the movie to a stand up who hadn't done stand up in, like, fifteen years, and he said the only thing that for sure you got wrong is the culture.

我当时想，你什么意思？

I was like, what do you mean?

他说，不是的。

He's like, no.

人们没那么友善。

People aren't that nice.

我当时想，其实你错了。

And I was like, actually, I think you're wrong.

我当时想，情况变了。

I was like, it's changed.

我当时想，现在人们都很支持。

I was like, people are supportive now.

这取决于你去的地方。

It's in where you go.

有些地方并不太支持。

There's places where it's not very supportive.

真的吗？

Really?

但至少，我以前在2000年初经常去地下室。

But at least, like, I used to go to the cellar, like, in early two thousands.

感觉和现在不一样。

Didn't feel like it does now.

对。

Right.

我觉得阿里·沙菲尔改变了很多。

Well, I think Ari Shafir changed that a lot.

他把洛杉矶的文化带到了纽约，在那里大家更互相支持。

He brought, like, the culture of LA to New York where you're, like, more supportive of each other.

以前总是你死我活，因为这一切最初始于90年代，那时所有人都在为情景喜剧试镜。

It was always, like, dog against dog because it really the way it all started out was in the nineteen nineties, it was all about everyone was auditioning for a sitcom.

对。

And Right.

如果我和你，假设我跑去试镜一部情景喜剧，天啊，真糟。

If you and I were if if I showed up to audition for a sitcom, like, oh, fuck.

布拉德利来了。

Bradley's here.

他也要竞争同一个角色。

He's going for the same part.

这混蛋真烦人。

Fuck that guy.

你知道，因为那真的可能改变你的一生。

You know, it was because it was like that could change your life.

对。

Right.

如果你拿到了那部情景喜剧，突然间你就火了，而我呢，还在为付房租发愁，天天吃泡面，那本来该是我的。

If you got that sitcom, now all of sudden, you're fucking huge, and I'm still, like, struggling to pay my rent eating ramen, and it could have been me.

对。

Right.

于是，在九十年代，人们产生了深深的怨恨，因为当时所有人心里都想着，那根挂在棍子末端的金胡萝卜就是《今夜秀》或者主持一档深夜节目，如果你能拥有自己的深夜秀，天啊。

And so there's this, like, serious resentment that happens in the nineteen nineties because everybody like, the the golden carrot at the end of the stick was the Tonight Show or, you know, hosting a late if you could get your own late night show, oh my god.

他成功了。

He made it.

他是《今夜秀》的主持人。

He's a host of the Tonight Show.

那可是唯一一个人才能得到的殊荣。

That was, like, the thing that only one person could get.

然后还有情景喜剧。

And then there was, like, the sitcom.

如果真的成功了，他们就会围绕你开发一档情景喜剧，拿到开发合约。

Like, if it really worked out, they'd make a sitcom around you to get a development deal.

所以有些人会从心理上背后捅刀子。

So there was people would psychologically backstab people.

人们会在别人上台前在背后说他们的坏话。

People would talk shit to people before they went on stage.

他们试图操控对方的思维。

They would try to hijack their fucking mind.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

真的吗？

Like, really?

那段时间很黑暗。

It was dark.

疯狂。

Crazy.

然后互联网出现了。

And then the Internet came around.

互联网出现后，人们不再是你的竞争对手，他们不仅成了你的朋友和同事，还变成了你的资源。

And then the Internet, instead of people being your competitors, they became not just your friends and not just your colleagues, but also an asset.

因为如果你做播客，邀请你那些搞笑的朋友来，你的播客就会更好。

Because if you're doing a podcast and you've got your funny friends on, then your podcast is better.

对。

Right.

然后如果你向别人推荐他们的播客，他们的播客变好了，你再去他们的播客上做客，情况也会更好，每个人都会因为别人做得好而受益。

And then if you tell people about their podcast and their podcast is better, and then you go on their podcast and that's better, and everybody benefits from everybody else doing well.

所以整个系统完全被逆转了。

So it became it completely reversed the system.

然后大家变得更加互相支持。

And then it became much more about being supportive of each other.

接着每个人都渐渐意识到，嘿。

And then everybody kinda realized, like, hey.

当我们都在享受乐趣的时候，事情要有趣得多。

It's way more fun when we're all having fun.

你知道的？

You know?

自从电视节目逐渐衰落，情景喜剧也随着真人秀的兴起而没落了。

And since the television thing kinda died off, the sitcom thing kinda died off with reality shows.

然后，重点就变成了在互联网上发布片段，接着出现了Netflix特别节目，不再只是每个人都想争取一个HBO特别节目。

And then it was really just more about getting clips up on the Internet and about getting and then there was Netflix special, so it wasn't just everybody trying to get an HBO special.

特别节目多了起来，你可以直接把特别节目上传到YouTube，整个环境变得更加协作和互助。

There was way more specials, and then you could just upload specials to YouTube and became this way more collaborative, supportive environment.

然后阿里·沙菲尔把我们在洛杉矶逐渐建立起来的这种模式带到了纽约，很多那里的家伙都跟进了。

And then Ari Shafir took that that we had kind of, like, established in LA and brought that to New York, and a lot of those guys ran with it.

没错。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这才是正确的方向。

I mean, that's the way to go.

人们总是说，顶端还有很多空间。

People always say, you know, there's a lot of room at the top.

是的。

Yeah.

有很多。

There's a lot.

单口喜剧领域确实有很多空间。

There's a lot of room in stand up for sure.

你知道吗？

You know?

而且每个人都有自己的一条路，即使在这条大高速公路上。

And it's like and everybody has their own lane even within this big highway.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

而且每个人都想和别人在一起。

It's and and everybody wants to be with other people.

谁真的想长期当一个独行侠呢？

Who wants to be a lone wolf really for a long period of time?

是啊。

Yeah.

有几个。

There's a few.

外面有几个，但他们心理上都崩溃了。

There's a few out there, but they're all psychologically destroyed.

他们一团糟。

They're just a mess.

是的。

Yeah.

谁不想有朋友呢？

Who doesn't wanna have friends?

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

是的。

Yeah.

我不明白。

I don't get it.

但你知道，我觉得你们在电影中精准地捕捉到了文化的这一方面，这是一种真实的表现。

But, you know, it's that aspect of the culture I felt like in the movie you guys nailed, which is a realistic aspect.

很好。

Good.

真实地展现了一群人互相调侃、捉弄的场景。

A realistic portrayal of what it's like where a bunch of people just they were all busting each other's balls.

是的。

Yeah.

哦，没错。

Oh, yeah.

正是如此。

Exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

你完全可以既支持对方，又保持诚实。

You could be supportive and still honest.

那就是关键所在。

That was the thing.

并不缺乏诚实或批评。

There's no lack of honesty or criticism.

只是这种批评并不是希望你垮掉。

It's just it's not done with the hope that you your your demise.

是的。

Yes.

这就是区别。

That's the difference.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得九十年代毁了不少喜剧演员。

I think the nineties, like, poisoned a lot of comedians.

它毒害了他们，因为它让你觉得这一切都只是手段，而终点就是一部情景喜剧。

It poisoned them because it gave you this idea that the whole thing was about a means to an end, and that end was a sitcom.

每个人都觉得你必须得搞个情景喜剧。

And everybody thought you just had to get a sitcom.

必须得搞个情景喜剧。

Gotta get a sitcom.

那就是所有人都在努力追求的目标。

And that was what everybody was working towards.

有些人甚至完全根据一个能卖给电视台的 persona 来打磨自己的表演。

There's people that were developing their entire act based around a around a persona that they could sell to the networks.

你在拍情景喜剧之前就做单口喜剧了吗？

Were you doing stand up before your sitcom?

是的。

Yes.

我明白了。

I see.

好的。

Okay.

所以事情就是这样发生的吗？

So is that how that happened?

有人看到你之后，就说：‘你得试试这个节目’吗？

Did someone see you and then they were like, oh, you gotta you gotta try this show?

对。

Yeah.

我真是运气好到离谱。

I got I got ridiculously lucky.

很多人说，我为了上一部情景喜剧付出了很多努力。

Like, you know, a lot of people say, oh, I work really hard to get on a sitcom.

不。

Nope.

不。

No.

我只是运气好。

I got lucky.

我做过MTV。

I did MTV.

我从来没有任何当演员的志向。

I never had any aspirations to act at all.

我做过MTV的半小时喜剧节目。

I did MTV half hour comedy hour.

我拿到了一个开发合约，突然间我就搬去洛杉矶，还出演了一部情景喜剧。

I got a development deal, and all of a sudden, I'm in living in LA, and I'm on a sitcom.

这一切发生在短短几个月内。

And it happened in a couple

几个月。

months.

很棒的情景喜剧。

Great sitcom.

我先演的是一部糟糕的情景喜剧。

I was on a bad one first.

我演过一部叫《Hardball》的烂剧。

I was on a bad one called Hardball.

那是福克斯电视台的一部情景喜剧，我扮演一名棒球运动员。

It was a sitcom on Fox where I played a baseball player.

那部剧被取消了，不幸的是，我当时以为它会火，因为我太傻了。

That show got canceled, and, unfortunately, I thought it was gonna go because I was retarded.

我当时大概二十五六岁。

I was, you know, 25 years old, 26 years old.

我以为这部剧肯定会火。

And I was like, oh, this is gonna take off.

我应该租个公寓。

I should get an apartment.

所以我签了公寓的租约，而且到了

So I had a lease on an apartment, and I By the

话说，我相信当时肯定也有人跟你说过这部剧会火。

way, everybody I'm sure people were telling you that it was gonna take off too.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

当然。

Of course.

大家都相信。

Everybody believed it.

是啊。

Yeah.

你肯定会得艾美奖。

You're gonna win an Emmy.

嗯，那

Well, the

制作这部剧的人，杰夫·马丁和凯文·柯伦，他们曾参与《辛普森一家》的制作。

guys who made it, Jeff Martin and Kevin Curran, they worked on the Simpsons.

他们还做过《已婚人士》。

They worked on married with children.

他们真的很棒。

They were really good.

但后来福克斯的人介入，把一切都毁了。

But then the Fox people came in and just ruined it.

高管们进来，带了一堆庸才，把这部剧彻底搞砸了。

Like, the executives came in, and they brought in a bunch of hacks and just ruined the show.

你做这个开心吗？

Did you have fun doing it?

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

我有我有

I had a I had

那段日子还算不错，但我真的很想念喜剧，想念纽约的人，想离开那里。

a kind of good time, but I also missed comedy, and I missed New York people, and I wanted to get out of there.

我当时就想，我得回纽约。

I was like, I gotta get back to New York.

这破地方真够呛。

Fuck this place.

一结束我就想，操。

As soon as it was over, but I was like, fuck.

我租了个房子。

I got this lease.

所以我租了一年的房，然后拿到了一个开发合约。

So I had a lease for a year, and then I got a development deal.

那时候你在洛杉矶吗？

Were you in LA at that time?

哦，我只在洛杉矶待了几个月。

Oh, I was only in LA for a few months.

哇。

Wow.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以我搬过去拍节目。

So I moved out there to do the show.

对。

Right.

我几乎立刻就租了房子。

I I got a lease, like, almost immediately.

然后我在那里待了几个月。

And then I was out there for a few months.

节目被取消了。

Show get canceled.

然后我拿到了一个为NBC开发新项目的合约。

And then I got a development deal to do something for NBC.

他们打算拍我的情景喜剧。

And they were gonna do my own sitcom.

但在我们开发的时候，他们说：嘿。

And but as we were developing it, they said, hey.

我们正在做一个节目。

There's a show that we're doing.

叫《新闻电台》。

It's called NewsRadio.

它已经被预订了。

It's already been picked up.

我们已经拍了试播集，但开除了试播集中的一名演员，想让你来试镜这个角色。

We already did the pilot, but we fired one peep one person from the pilot, and we want you to read for this.

我就这样加入了《新闻电台》。

And that's how I got on NewsRadio.

事情就是这样发生的。

That's how it happened.

那是我有史以来第二次试镜。

Like, that was the only second show I ever auditioned forever.

哇。

Wow.

所以我有一档节目，那是个大节目，而且你不能

So I had one show That is a big and you can't

你的经历非常独特。

you had a very unique track.

纯属运气。

Dumb luck.

太疯狂了。

That's nuts.

偶然撞上的。

Stumbled into it.

百分之百。

A 100%.

这完全不归功于我。

I can't take any credit for it.

纯属运气。

Dumb luck.

太棒了。

Amazing.

只是因为我能在试镜中保持镇定，而我根本没有表演经验。

Just my ability to keep it together in auditions and not not crack with no acting experience at all.

但这并不是我渴望的东西，所以它没有像对很多人那样带来压力。

But it was just not it wasn't something that I aspired to, so it it didn't have the kind of pressure it probably had for a lot of people.

可能也没有那种同样的喜悦感。

It probably didn't have the same kind of elation too.

对。

Right.

我觉得，如果这不是你真正想要的，那它虽然有趣，但你并不会觉得‘这就是对的’。

Like, put I assume if it's not something you really wanted, it was like it was fun, but you weren't like, this is this is like this feels right.

不。

No.

我当时的感觉是，哦，我要有钱了。

What it felt like is, oh, I'm gonna get money.

我要赚一些钱。

I'm gonna get some money.

是啊。

Yeah.

那就有问题了。

Then something's wrong.

我当时说，对。

Was like Yeah.

出问题了。

Something's wrong.

我当时想，这不错。

I was like, this is good.

我要有钱了，而且不用再为钱发愁了。

I'm gonna get money, and I don't have to worry about money.

我就是这么想的。

That's how I thought about it.

对。

Right.

当我真正做这件事的时候，我心想：哇。

And then when I was doing it, and I was like, wow.

我真是太幸运了。

I'm so lucky.

我怎么会这么巧，竟然和菲尔·哈特曼在一起呢。

Like, how did I stumble on I'm here with Phil Hartman.

这太疯狂了。

This is crazy.

疯狂啊，

Crazy,

老兄。

dude.

戴夫·福利和史蒂文

Dave Foley and Steven

鲁特，沃伦

Root, Warren

蒂尔尼。

Tierney.

这太疯狂了。

Like, this is nuts.

是啊。

Yeah.

演员阵容太疯狂了。

It was a crazy cast.

对吧？

Right?

不。

No.

那是保罗·西姆斯。

It was Paul Sims.

保罗·西姆斯。

Paul Sims.

对。

Right.

是啊。

Yeah.

他刚离开《拉里·桑德斯秀》。

Who had just left Larry Sanders show.

对。

Right.

所以他离开了《拉里·桑德斯秀》。

So he left Larry Sanders.

是啊。

Yeah.

这简直是运气爆棚。

It was crazy luck.

纯粹是愚蠢的运气。

Just stupid dumb luck.

没错。

That's right.

索根和杰夫·丹尼尔斯一起做了那个节目。

Sorgan did that other show with Jeff Daniels.

对。

Right.

嗯。

Yeah.

就是嗯。

It was Yeah.

是

Was a

很有趣。

lot of fun.

但回到那些日子，每个人都在为此努力。

So but but back in those days, like, everybody was working towards that.

幸运的是，我早就有了。

And, fortunately, I already had that.

所以我的目标就是继续练习单口喜剧，专心打磨我的单口表演。

So my thing was just, like, continue to work on stand up and just work on my stand up.

如果这一切都消失了，我就回去当个脱口秀演员。

And if this all goes away, I'll just go back to being a comic.

在洛杉矶表演单口喜剧。

And doing stand up in LA.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Right.

所以，那也是新的吗？

So and and so that was new?

那就是

That's

是的。

Yeah.

就在那里，我遇到了我这辈子见过最恶劣的背刺行为。

And that's where I encountered, like, the worst backstabbing I've ever seen in my life.

所以你从纽约来，那里你没感受到这种事？

So you're coming from New York where you didn't feel that?

那里没那么明显。

You didn't feel it as much.

对。

Right.

你知道，那时候感觉很多人在胡说八道，但那挺有意思的。

You know, you felt like a lot of shit talking, but that was fun.

你知道，如果搞砸了， guys 就会取笑你。

You know, guys would make fun if you bombed.

对。

Right.

他们当着你的面这么做。

They were doing it to your face.

是的。

Yeah.

他们当着你的面取笑你，那种环境更疯狂、更荒唐，就是个搞笑的氛围，对。

They were doing it to your face, and it was a more, like it was just a more ball busting, like, silly environment Right.

在纽约。

In New York.

没人觉得在纽约能出名。

It wasn't no one thought they were gonna get famous in New York.

你知道的？

You know?

他们全都只是这样。

They were all just Right.

只是在做性事。

Just doing sex.

但在洛杉矶，每个人都有拍情景喜剧的想法。

But in LA, everybody had this idea to get a sitcom.

到了二十世纪九十年代，他们开始提供开发合约。

And then in the nineteen nineties, they started giving out development deals.

那是最重要的事。

That was the big thing.

你会拿到二十万，甚至五十万美元的开发经费，然后突然间你有了这么多钱，开始挥霍生活。

You get, like, a 200,000, half $1,000,000 development deal, And then all of a sudden, you have all this money and you're living it.

所以每个人都朝着这个目标努力。

And so everybody was working towards that.

因此，人们不再只是为了成为单口喜剧演员而努力，而是把单口喜剧变成了实现目标的手段。

So it became instead of, like, people working towards just being a stand up, it became stand up was a means to an end.

然后，所有这些其他人，都挡住了你实现这个目标的路。

And then all these other people, they were in your way to get that goal.

天啊。

Jesus.

然后你的经纪人告诉你，你必须这么做，因为他们也想要那笔钱。

And then your agent was telling you that's what you had to do and every because they wanted that money too.

所以它

So it

完全是在引导人们去追求

was all, like, programming people to go after the

情景喜剧。

sitcom.

那里单口喜剧圈的文化完全不一样。

Completely different culture in the stand up community there.

没错。

Exactly.