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乔·罗根播客。
Joe Rogan podcast.
去看看。
Check it out.
乔
The Joe
罗根体验。
Rogan experience.
展示我的一天。
Showing my day.
晚上听乔·罗根播客。
Joe Rogan podcast by night.
一整天。
All day.
先生，你好吗？
How are you, sir?
很好。
Fine.
谢谢。
Thank you.
非常感谢你来到这里。
Thank you very much for being here.
我非常兴奋能和你交谈。
I'm really excited to talk to you.
显然，由于你的研究，引起了巨大的关注和争议。
Obviously, there's been an amazing amount of interest and controversy because of your work.
我们一开始就该向大家解释一下这究竟是怎么回事。
We should explain to everybody right off the bat what this is about.
你就是这项研究的负责人，这项研究在金字塔底部下方发现了结构，极具争议，也非常引人入胜。
You are the man that was at the head of this research that is looking at structures that are underneath the bottom of the pyramid and incredibly controversial, very fascinating.
如果这是真的，它几乎将彻底改写整个人类历史。
And if it's accurate, it essentially rewrites all of human history.
是的。
Yes.
感谢您的邀请。
Thank you for this invitation.
是的，这个团队由科拉多·马兰加领导，他是比萨大学的化学系教授兼团队负责人。
And, yes, the group is composed by Corrado Malanga, which is the head of the group and the dean professor of chemistry at the University of Pisa.
您能解释一下您的背景吗？以便大家理解。
Could you explain your background, please, so people will understand?
好的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yes.
我的背景是通信工程。
My background is this I am a telecommunication engineering.
我在大学毕业后。
I graduate at the university.
这个词是什么来着？
What is that word again?
再说一遍。
Say it again.
通信工程。
Telecommunication engineering.
好的。
Okay.
你的英语非常好，虽然意大利口音非常迷人，但有时候很难理解。
It's like your your English is excellent, but the Italian accent, although fabulous, sometimes it's difficult to translate.
非常感谢你，约翰。
Thank you very much, John.
对不起，是的，我的母语不是英语。
I'm sorry, yes, that I'm not mother tongue of English.
这还是比我的意大利语好太多了。
It's still much better than my Italian.
好的。
Okay.
谢谢。
Thank you.
是的。
Yes.
我毕业于意大利南部莱切大学。
I graduated myself in university at the University of Lecce, South Of Italy.
一所非常不错的大学。
Very nice university.
它以一位著名的意大利数学家恩诺·德·吉奥吉命名。
And it it was it is has the name of a famous mathematic mathematic Italian, which is Enno de Giorgi.
恩诺·德·吉奥吉生活的时代，约翰·纳什也生活在同一时期。
Enno de Giorgi was living in the era than John Nash was living also.
他们当时是彼此竞争的关系。
And they were they were one against to the other.
他们俩都在研究第19个希尔伯特问题。
And they were they was both studying the 19 Hilbert prod problem.
恩诺·德·吉奥吉在约翰·纳什之前一周解决了这个问题。
And Joan Enno DeGiorgi solved this pro this problem one week before John Nash.
很有趣。
Interesting.
约翰·纳什，就是那部著名电影《美丽心灵》里的主角。
John Nash who from the famous movie, Brilliant Mind.
是的。
Yes.
罗素·克劳。
Russell Crowe.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
所以，我在罗马的拉撒皮恩扎大学完成了我的博士学业，现在我在这里。
And so then I performed my PhD at La Sapienza in Rome and now I'm here.
你是怎么参与到这个发现中的呢？
And how did you get involved in this this discovery?
是的。
Yes.
我长期从事雷达和合成孔径雷达的研究。
I worked on radar and synthetic aperture radar for a lot of time.
雷达用于
Radar For
意大利军方。
the Italian military.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yes.
一些工作。
Some work.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
一些工作。
Some work.
真正谈谈。
Really talk about.
不。
No.
对。
Right.
而且
And
我参与了
I was involved
一项研究，与意大利巴里研究委员会合作，该委员会位于意大利南部，我们当时在测试一种特殊的处理技术，能够实现某种特殊效果。
in some research where together with the Italian Research Council of Bari, always South Of Italy, we we was testing some special processing that were able were able to to to perform something special.
所以这就是。
And so this is.
所以你为意大利政府从事的这项绝密研究，让你尝试了这种技术，对吧？
So this top secret research that you work on for the Italian government led you to try this stuff out, try this technology Yes.
这是一种基于卫星的技术。
And this is satellite based technology.
是的。
Yes.
对吗？
Correct?
对。
Yes.
这是一种无线电层析成像技术吗？
And it's a radio tomography?
是的。
Yes.
在我看来，这非常简单。
It is something, in my personal opinion, very simple.
雷达安装在卫星上。
The radar is installed on board on the satellite.
卫星在太空中以每秒七公里的速度，距地面六百公里的高度飞行。
The satellite flies at, in the space at a distance of 600 kilometers at seven kilometers per second in velocity.
因此，在它沿轨道飞行时，能够捕捉地球的快照。
So while it flies along the orbit, it is able to catch snapshots of the earth.
这些快照需要聚焦，我们以方位向为例，这个聚焦过程——可以轻松地说——是通过声音处理完成的，因为它涉及所谓的多普勒频率。
The snapshots has to be focused and this focusing procedure, let's say it in the azimuth, I take it easy in the azimuth direction, is done by sound, by the processing of sound because it is involved at the so called Doppler frequency.
你知道吗，乔，当你听到接近你的噪音时，这种噪音的频率会升高，因为目标相对于你具有正向速度。
You know, Joe, when you hear noises that are approaching to you, the this noise will rise the frequency because it the the target has a velocity, a positive velocity with respect to u.
因此频率会上升。
And so the frequencies rise up.
这一过程使我们能够估计或获取地表始终存在的衰减波所携带的振动信息。
And this procedure allow us to estimate or to to grab, let's say, the vibration information that is always present at the surface of the earth in terms of evanescent waves that are present on the surface of the earth.
这种振动，即机械振动，包含了地下位置的信息。
So this vibration, which is mechanical vibration, carries inside of this the the information that is located underground.
于是我们进行了这项工作。
And so we did this.
这是一个特定的构想吗？是专门为了探测金字塔下方，还是偶然发现的？
And was it a specific idea, was it the, the idea specifically to look under the pyramids or was this something that was discovered accidentally?
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yes.
在我们发现这种方法后，巧合的是，我认识了科拉多·马兰加。
Once we discovered I we discovered this this method, it was a coincidence that I knew Corrado Malanga.
那时候，我们处于2018年。
And at that time, I speak I am we are in 2018.
他当时正在研究金字塔。
He was studying the pyramids.
所以我们聊到了，是否有什么方法可以扫描金字塔内部，因为他需要一些信息来完成他的研究。
And so we were talking about, something that, if if there was some methods able to scan inside the pyramids because he needed some information to, to, to conclude the research that he was doing.
于是我向他提议使用我的技术，我们便开始合作。
And so I proposed him to use my technique and we started to work together.
因此，当时我们专注于金字塔的研究。
And so we focused at in that time on the pyramids.
那第一次扫描是什么时候进行的？
And when was this when was the first scans?
是的。
Yes.
在2019年。
In 2019.
2019年。
In 2019.
是的。
Yeah.
当你们拿到数据后，是否立即就得到了今天展示的这些数据，也就是能看到围绕着线圈的柱状结构？
And when you got the data back, did you immediately get the data that you're showing today where you see the columns with the coils around it?
好的。
Okay.
可以说，这项研究可以分为两个阶段。
In, let's say that this research is, can be divided by two.
第一阶段，1.0版。
The first one, one point zero.
我们当时专注于库姆库孚金字塔，也就是胡夫金字塔，以观测金字塔内部结构。
We were concentrating research on the Ku, Kunum Kufu Pyramid, the Kops Pyramid, to watch inside the pyramid.
因此，我们专门优化了数据处理方法，只针对金字塔内部进行分析，因为我们当时只研究这一座金字塔。
And so we have detailed, tailored our processing to watch only inside the pyramids because that pyramid, only one pyramid, because we were doing that kind of research.
然后，一旦我们在2020年发现了这些成果，就发表了同行评审论文，并公开了我们在胡夫金字塔内部发现的结果，之后我们决定将研究范围扩展到整个吉萨高原。
Then once we discovered things in 2020, we published the peer review paper and we gave public the results that we found in inside the Kun Kunum Kufu Pyramid, we decided to expand our research in all the the Giza Plateau.
我能在这里打断一下吗？
Can I stop you there?
当你们研究胡夫金字塔时，我们对它已经了解不少了，是的。
The when you looked into so we know quite a bit about the Kufu Pyramid Yeah.
也知道它内部有哪些墓室。
And what the chambers are inside of it.
这项技术是否准确地描绘了金字塔本身以及我们已知的内部墓室结构？
Did this technology accurately describe the pyramid itself and the insides of it, the chambers that we know exist?
当然，没错。
Absolutely, yes.
因为我们探测到了胡夫金字塔内部的多层结构，也就是所谓的‘Z’结构。
Because we have detected this multilayer structure that is inside the Khnun Kufu Pyramid, the so called Z.
我们从太空中清晰地发现了它，并且它位于金字塔内部。
We have discovered it very well from the space and it is located inside the pyramid.
而且我们还在新的地方发现了它，我们没有。
And also we discovered it in the new, we no.
我们发现了它。
We discovered it.
我们还提供了其他已知结构的图像，比如大走廊。
We we gave an image also of the other known structures like the the Grand Gallery.
大走廊。
The Grand Gallery.
走廊。
Gallery.
的
The
还有女王密室和国王密室。
And then also the Queen's Chamber and the king's chamber also.
所以
So
而且在尺寸和比例上是精确的。
And accurate in terms of size and dimension.
还有位置和地点。
And also position and location.
好的。
Okay.
那么你们是什么时候决定专注于金字塔下方的？
So when did you decide to focus below the pyramid?
是的。
Yes.
我们决定专注于金字塔下方，因为我们的目标是扩展研究范围。
We decided to focus below the pyramid because we we were, our intention was to expand our research.
此外，得益于研究团队的第三位成员阿尔曼多·梅，他建议我们扩展研究，对整个高原区域进行扫描。
And then also thanks to the third component of the research group, which is Armando May, he suggests us to expand our research and scan all digits of plateau.
对。
Yeah.
那么，你们是什么时候发现这些巨大的柱子，以及金字塔下方那些带有线圈的结构的？
And so what, what date was it that you discovered these immense columns with the coils around it and all those structures that are underneath the pyramid?
是的。
Yes.
在我们研究的第二阶段，我们开始将扫描重点放在凯夫拉金字塔和库努姆库福上。
In the second part of, of our research, we started focusing our scans on the Kerfra Pyramid and like Kunum Kufo.
然后我们调整了算法，以探测更深的地层。
And then we adjust our algorithms to go deeper.
当我们这样做时，我们的结果中开始出现许多非常有趣的现象。
And so when we did this very nice things began to to appear on our results.
当你第一次看到那些看起来像是巨大柱子的图像时，你有什么感受？
What what did you feel when you first saw those images that do appear to be immense columns?
我认为它们的直径有20米。
I believe they're the diameter is 20 meters.
20米。
20 meters.
所以它们非常巨大。
So they're huge.
巨大的柱子。
Enormous columns.
是的。
Yes.
当你第一次看到那些图像时，你心里想到了什么？
What what what went through your mind
怀疑。
when Skepticism.
怀疑。
Skepticism.
我告诉奥托索·科拉多，他和我在一起，因为我们把这些结果放在桌上整整六个月，没有对外公开。
I told for Ottosso Corrado was with me because we had those results for in our desk without disclosure or anything for six months.
因为我的看法是，这并不真实。
Because my, my opinion was that was not real.
我当时在想，也许这只是噪声，或者是我们的处理流程产生的某些伪影。
I, I did, I was thinking that maybe it was noise or some artifacts due due by our processing procedures.
你有没有因此犹豫过？这些柱状物如此均匀，而且正好出现在非常特定的位置，还彼此对齐。
Did give you pause at all that they were so uniform, that these columns were in very specific places and that they they lined up.
它们之间保持着均匀的间距。
There was a uniform gap in between them.
是的。
Yes.
那我们为什么公开这个呢？
And why we disclosure this?
因为我们开始也使用其他卫星了。
Because we started to use also other satellites.
一开始，我们只使用意大利的卫星系统，也就是宇宙神号和宇宙神号第二代。
And once we at the beginning, we were using only the Italian satellite system that is it is Cosmos Kymed and Cosmos Kymed second generation.
它非常出色，精度很高。
It's very good, very precise.
但我们希望扩展研究，使用其他卫星，因为乔，在研究中，多样性是好事，因为它能验证我们正在寻找的其他结果。
But we wanted to shift our research using also other satellites because, Joe, in research, when we have diversity, diversity is a good thing because it confirms other things that we were searching.
我们一直在寻找验证，反复验证。
We were searching confirmation confirmation.
当我们使用美国的卡佩拉卫星以及其他卫星时，始终得到相同的结果，于是我们决定公开。
So once we had the same results while we were we was using American satellites called the Capella Space and and also other satellites having always the same results, we decided to disclose.
这个区域一共进行了多少次不同的扫描？
How many different scans have been done on this area?
两到三次，超过两百次。
Two or three two more than 200.
超过两百次。
More than 200.
而且所有结果都一致吗？
And all with uniform results?
是的。
Yes.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yes.
对此有很多抵触，而且都来自那些惯常的人物。
There's a lot of resistance to this, and it's from the usual characters.
还有那些我认为是考古信息守门人的人。
And it's from people that I would characterize as gatekeepers of archaeological information.
不幸的是，他们不愿意以开放的心态来对待这个问题。
And, unfortunately, they are not willing to approach this with an open mind.
你看到这种怀疑，对我来说，这分明就是确认偏误。
And you see this skepticism that just seems to me to be confirmation bias.
无论扫描次数多么多、结果多么一致，他们都希望这并非真实。
They they want this to not be true regardless of the sheer number of scans and the uniformity of the results of these scans.
而且，这些东西已经被证明在其他事物上是有效的。
And also the fact that this stuff has been proven to work on other things.
你们不是用过这种技术来获取粒子对撞机的精确尺寸吗？
Like, didn't you guys use this exact technology to get the exact dimensions of a particle collider that you have?
是的。
Yes.
我出生在意大利中部的拉阿圭拉，那里有一个粒子对撞机。
We have a particle collider where I have born in La Aguila, which is located in the center of Italy, at the center of Italy.
有一座叫大萨索的高山，全称是大萨索山，海拔约3000米，精确来说是2993米。
There is a huge mountain called Gran Sasso, the Gran Sasso D'Italia, which is has a maximum altitude of about 3,000 meters for being precise 2,993 meters.
因此，这里有一条非常长的隧道，大约十一到十二公里长。
And so that there is a tunnel, very, very long tunnel about eleven, twelve kilometers.
在这座山的内部，有一个粒子对撞机。
And in the core of this mountain, there is a particle collider.
那里有一个实验室，差不多就是这样。
There is a laboratory, let's say, like that.
这项技术获取了这个粒子对撞机的精确尺寸
And this technology got the exact dimensions of this particle collider that's
当然。
Absolutely.
在这座山的深处？
Deep in this mountain?
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
在距离山顶1.4公里处。
At 1.4 kilometers with respect to the top.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
所以我们知道它是准确的。
So we know it's accurate.
我们知道它是有效的。
We know it works.
除了我说过的，它是考古信息的守门人之外，你认为它到底是什么意思呢？
What do you think it I mean, other than what I said that it's gatekeepers of archaeological information.
是一些人不愿意承认，这里可能存在着比金字塔本身更大的谜团。
It's people that don't want to admit that there's perhaps a quite a bit bigger mystery than just the pyramids themselves.
你认为是什么原因导致了这种抵制？
What what is what do you think it is that is causing this resistance?
我个人觉得确实如此。
Personally, it's true.
我们发现了很多阻力。
We found a lot of resistance.
是的。
Yes.
这是真的。
It's true.
但就我个人而言，我不知道为什么。
But personally, I don't know why.
我可以谈谈我的个人看法。
I can say something regarding to my personal opinion.
乔，这可能是一件太大、太庞大了，以至于今天无法如此公开披露的事情。
Joe, it is something that maybe is too big, too too huge to to be disclosure at like that today.
我不知道为什么。
I don't know why.
这让人感到困惑，因为这从根本上颠覆了人们的认知——毕竟金字塔本身就已经极其壮观了。
It's confusing to people because they it's it's essentially paradigm shattering because the pyramids themselves are absolutely spectacular.
大金字塔由230万块石头组成。
The Great Pyramid is 2,300,000 stones.
它的方位精确地对准了真正的正北、正南、正东和正西。
The the alignment is to perfect true now true north, south, east, and west.
无论谁建造了它，无论何时建造的，这都是一项令人难以置信的成就。
It's a really incredible accomplishment, whoever built it and when they built it.
至少在公元前2500年就完成了，这简直无可否认地令人着迷，甚至可能更早。
It's just undeniably fascinating that this was done at the the very least 2,500 BC, probably even older than
是的。
that.
对。
Yeah.
我们真的不知道。
We really don't know.
但光是这一点就已经非常壮观了。
But that alone is spectacular.
但当你再加上你发现的那些证据时，就会让人觉得我们其实什么都不知道。
But then when you add the findings that you have, it just makes everybody go, we don't know anything.
我们真的什么都不知道。
We really don't.
我们知道这些事物是存在的，但它们的用途一直只是推测。
We we know that these things exist, but their purpose has always been speculative.
有人推测这是一座坟墓，但这说不通，因为里面没有任何象形文字。
The speculation was that it is some sort of a tomb, but that doesn't make any sense because there's there's no hieroglyphs inside of it.
这不像是一个坟墓。
It doesn't seem like a tomb.
看起来不像一座坟墓。
Doesn't look like a tomb.
我相信你了解克里斯托弗·邓恩的研究，是的。
And I'm sure you're aware of Christopher Dunn's work Yes.
是的。
Yes.
他是一位工程师，认为这东西似乎是一种机械装置，很可能是用来产生某种能量的。
Which, you know, he's an engineer, and he said it it appears that this thing is some sort of a mechanical thing, and that it's probably designed to generate some kind of power.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yes.
在这个背景下，我与克里斯托弗·邓恩有过很多交流。
In this in this context, I have spoke a lot with Christopher Dunn.
我非常赞同他的理论，这很有道理。
And in in I like a lot his theory and it it makes sense.
这些发现与他的观点，以及其他一些科学家的观点高度吻合，他们都重新审视了金字塔的真实用途——它并非陵墓。
And and so these discoveries matches a lot with his with his and also to other scientists that makes make recast the effective purpose of the pyramid not to to be tombs.
如今我们确信。
Today we are sure.
我们确信一件事：金字塔不是陵墓。
We are sure all of one thing, that the pyramids are not tombs.
它们不是陵墓。
They're not tombs.
真正令人惊叹的是，如果这些数据准确，那么这些长期以来令人类困惑的宏伟结构，可能只是冰山一角。
And what is truly spectacular is that if if this data is accurate, those immense structures that have baffled mankind forever are just the tip of the iceberg.
是的。
Yes.
那只是表面。
That's just the top.
对。
Yes.
而在它下面
And underneath it
那里有。
There is.
你有这些庞大的结构
You have these immense structures
好的。
Yeah.
我们尚未完全探索，但你有数据展示，让我们看看这些图像。
That we have not yet fully explored, but you have data that shows that let's let's look at the images.
我们调出一些图片吧，这样大家就能看到我们在讨论什么了。
Let's pull up some of the images so people can see what we're talking about.
因为一旦你看到它，你的大脑就会立刻明白：好吧。
Because once you see it, you your mind just goes, okay.
我们到底在讨论什么？
What are we even talking about?
这会是一个文明吗？
Like, was this civilization?
它是什么时候存在的？什么样的技术能让他们不仅建造出金字塔——这已经令人完全困惑了——而且如果根据你的研究，金字塔下方的这个结构是准确描述的，那我们面对的将是彻底改变人类历史认知的事物。
When did it exist, and what kind of technology would allow them to not just construct the pyramids, which is absolutely baffling, but if this structure that is underneath the pyramids is accurately described by your work, We're looking at something that it it it is going to have to change our entire perspective on the history of humanity.
是的。
Yes.
我同意你的观点，乔，因为我们发现的东西，已经通过我们的测量得到了证实。
I agree with you, Joe, because what we found, it is something that is, has been confirmed by by our measurements.
目前，我认为我们的测量是唯一的数据，因为没有其他数据了。
And at the moment, I suppose that our measurements are the only, are the only data that we have because there aren't other data.
那么我们观察到的是什么？
So what we are observing?
我们主要观察到的是垂直结构。
We are, we are observing principally vertical structure.
这种垂直结构具有某种模式，一种规则的模式，而这种规则模式是由所谓的螺旋结构构成的。
This vertical structure has a, a pattern, a regular pattern, and this regular pattern is constituted by a so called spiral nature.
我发现了这一点。
I found this.
好的。
And Okay.
那么我们在这里看到的是什么？
So what are we looking at here?
这些是对的那一个。
These are That's the right one.
是的。
Yes.
是的
Yeah.
好的
Okay.
对
Yes.
那就是卡弗雷金字塔。
That is the Caffrey Pyramid.
你看，乔，在断层扫描的顶部，断层扫描的横轴是空间。
And you see, Joe, at the top of the tomography, the tomography is on the x so the horizontal dimension we have the space.
明白？
Okay?
嗯
Mhmm.
空间，调整范围。
Space, adjust the range.
在垂直方向上我们有深度。
And on the vertical we have the depth.
好的。
Okay.
在顶部我们能看到金字塔。
On the top we have the the pyramid you see.
你看到顶部的金字塔了。
You see the pyramid on the top.
嗯。
Mhmm.
当你往下看时，你观察到的是向下延伸的结构，看，这些结构具有螺旋状的特性。
And while you go down, you are observing the structures that are going down and look, you have the spiral nature of the of the of the structures.
好的。
Okay.
这并不是我见过最清晰的图像。
This is not the clearest image that I've seen.
所以让我看看其他一些图片。
So what are let me see some other images.
不。
No.
因为这只是其中一张。
Because this is just one.
对吧？
Right?
我知道这是来自他的演示，但我不知道去哪里找最好的版本，好吧。
I know that's what this is from his presentation and I didn't know where to get the best Okay.
从那里。
From it.
倒回一张。
Back up one.
所以，好的，好的。
So Go go okay.
再放一遍。
Again.
我们这里有很多图片，嗯。
We have a lot of images here that Mhmm.
这重新呈现了我们共同完成的所有研究。
That is recasting all the the research that we have done together.
所以网上流传的那些图片，人们看到的是这三张，能再调一些出来吗？
So the images that are going around online that people have seen are these three d replicate pull up some more of those?
是的。
Yeah.
我本来打算从网上获取它们。
I was gonna get them off the web.
好的。
Okay.
网上的一些图片是对观测结果的再现，以及你认为其下方可能呈现的样子。
Some of the images online are recreations of what it is observed and what you believe this could look like underneath.
对吗？
Correct?
我们
We
我们已经进行了测量。
have performed measurements.
这些是通过卫星从地球表面采集的声音测量数据。
And that they are sound measurements that are, that has been picked up from the surface of the earth by satellites.
因此它们非常精确且一致。
So they are very precise and they are coherent.
一致意味着包含大量信息。
A coherent it means that contains a lot of information.
因此它具有高熵的特征。
So it is characterized to have high entropy.
因此当我们进行所谓的层析反演时，就能看到地表以下的情况。
And so when we perform the so called tomographic inversion, we can see what there is underneath.
好的。
Okay.
所以这是对你认为它看起来样子的还原。
So this is a recreation of what you believe it looks like.
是的。
Yes.
你是如何从下面那张图像中得出这个结论的？
And how are you getting that from the image that's below that?
好的。
Okay.
所以这张图像只是数据的一个方面。
So the image is just one aspect of the data.
对吗？
Correct?
是的。
Yes.
这个图像吗？
The the imagery?
这个。
This.
是的。
Yes.
这个多彩的图像。
This multi colored image.
好的。
Okay.
我们现在正在观察卡夫拉金字塔内部。
Here we are observing inside the Kafre Pyramid.
在卡夫拉金字塔内部，我们观察到了那些结构。
And inside the Kafre Pyramid, we are observing those structures there.
那些结构就在卡夫拉金字塔内部。
The the those are inside the Kafre Pyramid.
还有上面的图片。
And the image above.
是的。
Yes.
那是艺术家根据你认为的样子所作的复原图。
That is an artist recreation of what you think it looks like.
对。
Yes.
那么，你是如何得出这个结论的，认为它就是长这样的？
Now how did you make that determination that that's what it looks like?
好的。
Okay.
三维模型已经被提取出来了，不是只观察了一个结果，而是观察了很多结果。
The three d model has been has been retrieved, not observing just only one result, but observing a lot of results.
所以，我们将所有我们能够提取出的结果都列在了表格中。
So putting on a table all the results that we have, we were able to retrieve.
为了方便人们阅读我们的测量数据。
So to facilitate people to read our measurements.
好的。
Okay.
通过观察这些结果，我们能够确定从卡夫拉金字塔底部向下延伸的螺旋结构。
So observing the results, we were able to determine the spirals and the structures that are located starting from the base of the Kaphra Pyramid going down.
我见过其他一些扫描图像，比下面这张更有说服力。
I've seen other images of the scans that are more convincing than the one that's below.
那我们来看看能不能找到一些那样的图片。
So let's see if we can find some of those.
它们还有什么其他的图像吗？
What are they what else do you have here?
是的。
Yes.
这些都与第一个有关
These are all images that are related to the first
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这只是一个新闻文章。
So this is just an article that's in the news.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我甚至都去过那里。
I had just, I mean, I even went here.
我不
I don't
哪里能拿到这些图像的最佳版本？
What is like, where's a a good place to get the best versions of these images?
就像那里一样。
Like that right there.
好的。
Okay.
它只是有点
It's just kind of
好的。
Okay.
这是什么？
What is this?
好的。
Okay.
我们现在正在观察我们断层扫描的广阔区域。
Here we are watching a wide area of our of our tomography.
所以看。
So look.
我们看到了向下延伸的结构。
And we see the structures that are going down.
是的。
Yes.
这清楚多了。
This is much clearer.
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
在这些结构的下方，结构末端有巨大的腔室，而且真的非常大。
And And below the below the structure, at the end of the structures, there are huge chambers, but they are really huge.
大约有八十米宽、八十米长、八十米高。
Approximately having a a width and the length and the height of eighty eighty meters.
所以是80米高的结构，是的。
So 80 meter structures Yes.
这些都在所有这些结构的下方。
That are below all of this.
是的。
Yes.
所以，在这一切下方，几乎有一个足球场大小的某种腔室。
So almost the size of a football field below all this that is some sort of a chamber.
是的。
Yeah.
杰米，看看你能不能找到一些其他的图片。
And see see if you can find some other images, Jamie.
这些线圈，你是怎么确定它们存在的？
So the coils, how did you determine that there was coils?
是因为你在图像中看到的间隙呈现出这种均匀的模式吗？
Is it just because of the gaps that you see in the imagery, whether they come in this uniform pattern that it's
在我的演示文稿中，有两到三张幻灯片展示了这些线圈。
I I have two or three slides on my presentation where we find the coils.
好的。
Okay.
我们来看看能不能找到那些幻灯片。
Let's see if we can find those slides.
你
You
知道是哪张幻灯片吗？
know which you know which slide maybe?
请往下看。
If you go down, please.
是的。
Yeah.
等等，等一下。
Wait, wait a minute.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
在这儿。
Here.
好的。
Okay.
在这里我们可以观察到一个规律性的模式。
Here we can observe a regular pattern.
所以不是线圈。
So not not coils.
而且我们，我们往下看，请。
And we, and we go, we go down please.
好的。
Okay.
规律性的模式，线圈开始在那里显现了，嗯。
Regular pattern and the coils are beginning to be seen there Mhmm.
在第三张图像上。
On the third image.
这里，规律性的模式。
Here, regular pattern.
请往下看。
Go down please.
在这里，依我个人看法，这是从左到右的第四张图像，第五张图像。
And here, this is, in my personal opinion, the fourth image from the left to the right, the fifth image.
一、二、三、四。
One, two, three, four.
第四张图像，抱歉。
The fourth image, I'm sorry.
在螺旋结构或线圈的中心有一个核心，然后我们看到某种东西呈螺旋状向下延伸。
Where you have a core at the at the center of the the the coil or at the at the center of the the structure, and then we have something that spirals down.
所以有没有人推测过这可能是什么？
So has anybody speculated about, about what this could possibly be?
这些线圈到底是什么？
Like what these coils are?
是的。
Yes.
我与两位独立研究人员，特别是克里斯托弗·纳恩，进行过交流。
I spoke with two independent, with let's say with some independent researchers and especially with Christopher Nunn.
我还与杰弗里交谈过，他也认为GSA能源计划可能是一种化学反应器之类的东西。
And and also I spoke also with Jeffrey that is considering also the GSA power plan like a chemical reactor or something like that.
因此，一方面有些科学家认为这可能与电力有关，另一方面也有人认为这与化学或其他因素有关。
So we have on one side scientists that say, okay, can be something related to electricity or or we have something related to chemical to chemicals or other things.
就我个人而言，我看不出任何东西。
In my personal opinion, me, I can't see anything.
我无法做出任何判断，因为我只是测量了那里存在的东西。
I can't say anything because I just measured what there is there.
所以，这并不是我的职责所在，怎么说呢。
So it is not my, how you say, my my job to do this.
我的职责是，好吧，我们有了这些测量数据，现在需要看看里面到底是什么。
My job is, okay, here we have the measurements and now we have to see what there is inside.
就我个人而言，现在是时候说：好吧，我们去那里看看究竟有什么。
In my in my personal opinion, this is the right time to say, okay, let's go bit let's go there and see what there is.
我们开始挖掘吧。
Let's start digging.
好的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
杰里米，请再调一些图片出来。
Pull up some more images, please, Jeremy.
所以，是的。
So Yes.
这非常重要。
This is very important.
如果你愿意，我可以跟你讲讲这个吗？
If you want, I can I can tell you about this?
好的。
Okay.
因为这是我目前正在做的一个非常重要研究项目。
Because it is the very important project, research project that I am working now.
而且如果可能的话，我们不需要挖掘，就能直接到达下方。
And it is something that if could be possible, we can go there and without digging anything, we can go below.
为什么？
Why?
因为在狮身人面像和卡夫拉金字塔之间，有一些通道。
Because belonging between the Sphinx and the Caphrara Pyramid, there are some shafts.
这些是通道的照片，我们可以实地进入，亲自前往并观察这些通道。
And there there are the photos of the shafts where we can go in situ and we can physically go there and see and watch those shafts.
目前这些通道被废墟堵塞了。
Currently the shafts are blocked by debris.
里面还有一些垃圾。
And there is also rubbish inside.
因此，我对这些通道进行了大量扫描。
So we I performed I performed a lot of scans at at those shafts.
你看，乔，这些竖井一直向下延伸，不断向下，直达下方的墓室。
And you see, Joe, the shaft, the shafts goes down, down, down, down, and they reach chambers that are below.
这就是多普勒断层扫描仪。
And that is the doc, Doppler tomography
读数吗？
readings?
是的。
Yes.
所以这些竖井是向下延伸的。
So these shafts go down.
它们有多深？
How far do they go down?
是的。
Yes.
它们大约向下延伸了600米。
They go down, like, approximately 600 meters.
600米。
600 meters.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yes.
所以往下600米，是的。
So 600 meters down Yeah.
然后它们到达一个房间吗？
And then they reach a chamber?
是的。
Yes.
这些竖井的传统解释是什么？
What is the conventional explanation for these shafts?
有吗？
Is there one?
我的意思是，现在的考古学家、学术界他们认为这些通道到底是什么？
Like, what is what what do current archaeologists what does academia what do they think these things are?
先别动，就放在那儿。
Leave that right there for a second.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
这是我和科拉多一起制作的完整三维模型。
This is the complete three d model that me and Corrado did.
目的是为了观察我们通过在吉萨高原进行断层扫描所发现的所有结构。
And so to observe all the structures that we have find, that we found evaluating the tomographies that we have done on the Giza Plateau.
所以不仅仅是在大金字塔下方。
So it's not just under the Great Pyramid.
而是在三座金字塔下方都有。
It's under all three pyramids.
还有狮身人面像。
And also the Sphinx.
还有狮身人面像。
And also the Sphinx.
是的。
Yes.
它们似乎都延伸到相同的深度吗？
And they all seem to go do they go down to a uniform depth?
目前我们发现它们深度相同。
We found at the moment the same depth.
是的。
Yes.
它们底部都有房间。
And they all have chambers at the bottom.
是的。
Yes.
当然。
Absolutely.
是的。
Yes.
在我看来，接下来我们要处理的就是这个。
And that's the the the in my best opinion, my, the, the next thing that that we are dealing.
在这些向下延伸的管道结构的末端，有着巨大的 chambers。
At the end of the structures of these tubes that are going down, there are huge chambers.
有多大？
How huge?
我之前告诉过你，80米乘80米乘80米高。
As I told you before, 80 meters times 80 meters and times 80 meters of height.
所有金字塔下方都是这么统一的吗？
And that's uniform underneath all of the pyramids?
是的。
Yes.
尺寸是一样的吗？
It's the same dimensions?
是的。
Yes.
哇。
Wow.
当你这样看的时候，当你看到这个遗址的三维重建时，真是太震撼了。
When you look at it like this, when you see your three d recreation of the site, it's stunning.
对。
Yeah.
因为它让你不禁思考：这到底是什么？
Because it just it just makes you think, like, what is this?
我的意思是，我能理解怀疑，也能理解现代学术界对这种观点的抵触，因为这彻底颠覆了一切。
I mean, I can understand the skepticism, and I can understand the resistance to this that modern academics have because this throws a giant monkey wrench into everything.
这让我们对这一地区的一切认知都受到了质疑。
This make makes everything we know about that area thrown into question.
因为如果这是真的，就像我说的，这将重写历史，因为你面对的是一个明显比我们更先进的文明。
Because if this is true like I said, this this rewrites history because you're dealing with an advanced civilization that is demonstrably more advanced than us.
是的。
Yes.
因为他们能够建造非常精确的东西，但不是在地表之下。
Because they were able to to build very precise things, but not at the surface of the earth below.
嗯，他们甚至建造了许多让我们困惑的精密物品。
Well, they've even built a lot of precise things that confuse us.
比如，克里斯托弗·邓恩给我看过这样一件东西。
Like, one of the things that Christopher Dunn gave me is this.
对。
Yeah.
这是他们众多陶器中某一件的复制品，其制作方式非常精准。
That's a the recreation of the vase of one of the many vases that they have that is accurate in its the the the way it was made Yeah.
精确到极致。
Down to god.
数字是多少？
What was the number?
是人类头发的千分之一，或者类似疯狂的尺寸？
A thousandth of a human hair or something crazy like that?
它的直径比头发细得多，而且均匀一致，是在没有金属合金的时代，用极其坚硬的石头雕刻而成的。
Like, much less than a human hair in the diameter, in the uniformity of it, in the fact that it was carved that is incredibly hard stone at a time where there was no metal alloys.
他们据说只有铜制工具。
They you know, they supposedly had copper tools.
没人能理解这一点。
No one understands it.
没人知道他们是怎么做到的。
No one knows how they did it.
它还有把手，根本不可能用旋床加工出来。
And it has handles on it, it couldn't even been turned on a lathe.
是的。
Yes.
而且，如果我们进入金字塔内部，以及观察金字塔外部，可以发现它们的测量非常精确。
And also, if we go inside the pyramids, inside and also outside the pyramids, we can observe that the measurements are very precise.
这些房间的墙壁都是平整的。
The, the chambers are constituted by flat walls.
我们没有发现任何铭文，而这些尺寸都与宇宙中的主要常数相关。
We don't have inscriptions and the dimensions are all related to the constants, to the major constants of universe.
没错。
Right.
它们全都与星座对齐。
They're all aligned to the constellations.
有很多非常奇怪的计算，比如在春分和秋分时，阳光会恰好穿过某些通道。
There's a lot of like very strange calculations that they were able to make like pathways where the sun during the solar equinox passes right through.
这是一个令人着迷的地方。
It's a fascinating place.
是的。
Yes.
当你刚开始收集这些数据，逐步积累并开始与专家一起分析时，当你意识到这一切是真的，那种感觉是怎样的？
What when you started acquiring this data and you started accumulating it and then started going over it with experts, What did that feel like to you when you're when you're realizing, oh, this is real?
是的。
Yes.
这对我来说是非常美好的一件事，因为当时我总是对科拉多说。
It was something that was very very nice for me because because when we disc the, the thing was I was saying always to Corrado.
科拉多，我们该公开这个发现吗？
Corrado, shall we disclosure this or not?
我觉得目前还不行。
I think for, for now not.
目前还不行。
For now, not.
但结果始终是一样的。
But then the results were always the same.
所以我们决定公开所有这些内容。
So we decided to to disclose all these these
你们在决定公开之前，隐瞒了多久？
How long did you sit on it before you decided to disclose it?
大概一年。
About one year.
一年。
One year.
是的。
Yes.
那么在这一年里，你有多纠结？
So for that one year, how conflicted were you?
你一定整天都像背着地球上最大的秘密一样走路。
You must have been walking around like I have the biggest secret on Earth.
对。
Yes.
那感觉有多奇怪？
How weird was that?
只有两个人知道这件事
Only two person knew what
这太疯狂了。
it's That's crazy.
这太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
只有两个人，是的。
Two people Yeah.
拥有地球上最大的秘密之一。
Having one of the biggest secrets on Earth.
这是有数据支持的。
That's backed by data.
我的意思是，这可不是有人告诉你的那种情况。
I mean, it's not it's not even like, you know, someone told you something.
你拥有由令人着迷的现代技术提供的非凡数据，表明存在这些颠覆性的结构。
Like, you have extraordinary data due to fascinating modern technology that indicates that there's these paradigm shifting structures.
是的。
Yeah.
我告诉你，乔，我真的很想去那里，亲自看看那里有什么。
And I tell you, Joe, I I would like to go there and see what there is in person.
对。
Yes.
因为现在我觉得是时候了。
Because it's it's now time, I think.
埃及和控制那个区域的人有抵制吗？
Is there resistance from Egypt and the people that are in control of that area?
还是他们对此感到着迷？
Or are they fascinated by it?
我告诉你，乔，到目前为止，我没发现多少抵制。
I tell you, Joe, I didn't far, find a lot of resistance.
但在互联网上，我发现了大量的抵制。
But there is I found a lot of resistance in the Internet.
是的。
Yes.
当然。
Of course.
很多银行界人士，以及很多了解真相的人，都知道这并不真实，这并不真实。
A lot of the banking, a lot of people that know it's not true, it's not true.
有很多人继续声称，不，雷达可以穿透地球一公里，一公里。
A lot of people that continues, continue were continuing to say, no, radar can penetrate the Earth for one kilometer, for one kilometer.
他们要么不知道，要么故意不提这一点：我们并没有穿透任何东西，因为我们只是获取了地球表面的熵。
And they didn't know or they they they purposely not saying this, that we are not penetrating anything because we are just grabbing the entropy that is on the surface of the earth.
利用这些信息，我们正在重建断层扫描图像。
And with, with, with that information, we are retriving tomographies.
这是我发明的一种新方法，但它有效。
It's something new that I invented, but it works.
因为我们有基准数据，证明了这种方法的有效性。
Because we have benchmarks that demonstrates the effectiveness of the method.
而且这是100%确定的。
And it's, this is 100%.
也有人批评说专利已经过期，但那是因为你已经有了更先进的新专利。
And there's also been some criticism that the patents have expired, but that's because you have new patents on better stuff.
对吧？
Right?
JOIM在保密协议下，所以我想我可以谈一下第二项专利，因为就在昨天，我们在美国提交了专利申请。
JOIM under NDA, So I we just might think I I can say something about the second patent because just yesterday we filed the patent in USA.
真棒。
Nice.
是的。
Yes.
哇。
Wow.
有没有学者联系过你，表示支持并希望进一步研究这项技术？
Have any academics reached out to you in support that are interested in this and would like to explore this further?
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
我告诉你这个。
I tell you this.
有一些与采矿和原油开采相关的公司，还有水资源方面的公司。
There are companies related to mining and crude oil extraction and then also water.
乔，今天我们要特别关注时间，因为水非常重要。
Joe, today we are leaving a particular time because water is very important.
我们正面临全球性的水资源紧急状况。
We are in a so called water emergency in all the world.
所以对我来说，我们首先要做的就是扫描地球，寻找、尝试发现其他提取非咸水的机会。
So for me, the first thing that we have to do is to scan the Earth and to fetch, to, to find, to try and find other let's say opportunity to extract, not salty water.
这非常重要。
It's very important.
你也会用这项技术来做这件事吗？
You'll be using this technology for that as well?
我们现在还不用，但我打算这么做。
We for now, not, but I'm thinking to do it.
嗯，这很有道理。
Well, it makes sense.
我的意思是，如果它能检测到这个，那也应该能检测到那个。
I mean, if it can detect this, it should be able to detect that as well.
而且如果它能做到这一点，再加上准确性高，也会有助于争取支持。
And that will be if in its and then also if it's accurate, that'll also help garner support Yes.
为了对下面的任何东西进行勘探。
For this this exploration of whatever is under there.
是的。
Yeah.
因此，我们收到了很多公司的来电，他们想和我合作，让我们看看能做些什么。
And so we we are receiving a lot of calls from companies that want to work with me, and so let's see what what we can do.
所以这些公司都是在你发布了金字塔下方的结果之后联系你的吗？
And so this is all companies that have reached out after you released the results underneath the pyramids?
他们中的大多数最近才给我打电话。
The most of them are calling me recently.
对。
Right.
所以
So
是的。
Yes.
他们最近听说了。
They've heard about recently.
是的。
Yes.
嗯，这就是资本主义。
Well, that's capitalism.
对吧？
Right?
他们说，哦，我们可以从这个中赚钱。
They they say, oh, we can make money off of this.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
那很好。
Well, that's good.
这能引起人们的兴趣。
That gets people interested.
这能让人们参与进来。
It gets people involved in this.
所以我们还有一个慈善项目。
And so we have also philanthropic philanthropic project.
我们将在马耳他成立一个基金会。
We are opening a foundation in Malta.
我们将在两周内实现这一目标，届时将在马耳他设立一个基金会。
We, we are realizing it in two weeks and we, we will have a foundation in Malta.
通过这个基金会，我们还可以为吉萨高原以及世界各地其他古代巨型遗迹开展慈善活动。
And with the, with that foundation we can operate also philanthropically for the, the Giza Plateau and other and other ancient megalytics that are located in all the world.
我们计划对所有这些遗迹进行扫描。
We have a plan to scan everything.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
接下来呢？
What is next?
也许我们可以去看看其他遗址。
Maybe we we can see or other sites.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
哥贝克力石阵。
Gobekli Tepe.
哥贝克力石阵。
Gobekli Tepe.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
你有没有研究过希罗多德描述过的那些地下的迷宫？本·范·柯克威克在他的《未探索X》频道里提到过，那里有一个巨大的中庭，里面有一个40米长、形状像 Tic Tac 的金属物体。
Have you looked at the labyrinths underneath the the ones that were described by Herodotus that Ben Van Kirkwick has been talking about in his uncharted x channel where there is a huge atrium with a 40 meter metallic object that's the shape of a Tic Tac in
在那里。
there.
他们让我去做，我们会做的。
They asked me to do it, and we will do it.
我们必须得做那件事。
Will do have to do that.
我跟你说，乔。
I, I tell you, Joe.
这个处理过程非常不错，但需要大量的计算。
The processing is very nice, but it requests a lot of calculations.
所以它很耗时。
So it is time consuming.
所以，目前我们有一些专门用于Jitsa和其他我们正在进行的项目的计算机。
So Oh, at the moment at the moment we have some computers that are dedicated on Jitsa and other project that we are doing.
在未来，也许我们会拥有其他机器来处理其他事情。
And in the future maybe we will have other other machines that can work to, to do other things.
但我们一定会做。
But we will do it.
我们需要时间，但我们一定会做到。
We we need time, but we will do it.
现在你是否完全确信这些数据是准确的？那些试图驳斥它的人提出的批评，有没有任何一点让你觉得有道理或真实可信？
Now are you absolutely convinced that this data is accurate or have any of the criticisms of any of the people that are trying to debunk it have has any of that resonated with you and rang true?
这些批评中有没有任何一点是成立的？
Is there is there any validity to any of the criticisms?
雷达只是精确。
Radar is only precise.
雷达的好处在于它的精度，尤其是从太空中获取时。
The nice thing that has radar is the precision From, and especially from space.
因为太空是一个非常安静的环境。
Because space, it is a very silent environment.
你不会受到干扰。
You don't have noise, something.
这个平台非常稳定。
The the platform is very stable.
所以当你发射电磁波时，它们会以绝对的精度返回。
So when you transmit electromagnetic waves, they return back with absolutely precision, with absolute precision.
这些超过200次扫描中，数据被反复重建，是的。
It's recreated over and over again in these 200 plus scans that you've Yes.
通过不同的卫星。
With various different satellites.
对吗？
Correct?
不是只靠一颗卫星，因为单颗卫星可能会有误差。
Not just one, so that one could have errors.
是的。
Yeah.
所以你确信了？
So you're convinced?
是的。
Yeah.
我确信。
Am convinced.
100%，因为。
100%, because.
哇。
Wow.
我做了，我发明了这个方法。
I did the, I invented the method.
是的。
Yes.
我知道。
I know.
但我告诉你，如果有人能复现这些成果，我会很高兴。
But I tell you that am happy if somebody can replicate things.
所以，如果其他研究团队能复现我展示的内容，我会很高兴。
So if other research groups can replicate the things that I'm showing, I am happy.
好吧，你先做到了。
Well, you got there first.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，是的。
So Yes.
无论如何。
No matter what.
我的意思是，如果这是正确的，你将成为考古学史上最重要的人物之一。
I mean, you if this is correct, you will go down in history as one of the most important figures in archaeology.
因为如果你
Because if you
你是
are you're
但我的意思是，这只是一个事实。
but, I mean, it's just fact.
如果你说的是真的，而我们在二十一世纪才刚刚发现这一点，那真是令人难以置信。
If what you're saying is true, and we're just recently discovering this in the twenty first century, I mean, that's absolutely mind bending.
谢谢你这么做。
Thank you for this.
是的。
Yes.
我为能参与其中感到高兴，但不仅仅是我自己，还有许多其他人帮助我完成这项工作。
I I am happy for for being in this, but not not only me, other people helping me to to do my work.
是的。
Yes.
当然了。
Oh, of sure.
当然。
Of course.
很多人。
A lot of people.
还有我的家人。
And imprincipal my family.
是的。
Yeah.
这些结构和整个区域，如果最终发现这不仅仅存在于吉萨高原，而是遍布埃及其他地区，那么一直以来人们都在猜测，撒哈拉以南非洲是否曾存在过一个先进的文明，那个文明如今已被沙土掩埋。
This these structures and this this whole area, if this turns out to be something that you don't find just at the Giza Plateau but around other parts of Egypt, I mean, there's always been a lot of speculation as to whether or not a civilization existed in Sub Saharan Africa, an advanced civilization that is in the areas that now sand.
你或许也可以在那里进行类似的研究。
You could probably do that same sort of research there as well.
是的。
Yes.
我同意这一点，我们会去做的。
I I agree with this, and we will do it.
是的。
Yes.
哇。
Wow.
现在这件事被曝光了，而且在互联网上引发了大量的猜测和热议，你的生活是怎样的？
What is life like for you now having this exposed and now, you know, having this on the Internet and all of this speculation and all this excitement?
这对你的生活有什么影响？
What has that been like for you?
是的。
Yes.
我对在网络上曝光还不太习惯。
I am not very used exposure in, on the Internet.
这是我必须慢慢适应的事情。
It is something that I have to get used of this.
是的。
Yes.
我的生活很简单，乔。
My, my life is simple, Joe.
我住在意大利，但现在我要重复一遍。
I, I live in Italy and but now I repeat this.
现在是时候前往吉萨高原实地考察了，我希望能亲自看看这些结构的实际状况，以及整个高原的用途究竟是什么。
It is time to go ahead and go on the Giza Plateau and in person, I I wish to see if the effective structure, how they are, and the purpose of the of all the plateau, what it is.
你有计划亲自去那里吗？
And is there plans to do that in person?
进行某种发掘工作吗？
To do some sort of an excavation?
是的。
Yes.
我写了一份项目提案，这既是一项研究，又不完全是研究性质的提案。
I wrote a project proposal, which is a research and also not research, a proposal.
我们现在打算将这份提案提交给埃及当局。
And is now we we are our intention is to submit this proposal at the Egyptian authorities.
如果你愿意，我可以向你解释一下这个提案。
If you want, I can explain you this proposal.
请说。
Please.
我们正在联合费拉拉大学，首席科学家是埃萨瓦卡罗教授，一位意大利地质学家。
We are involving University of Ferrara, principal scientist, Professor Esavacaro, Italian professor in, she's a geologist.
以及其他一些非常擅长进行现场扫描的意大利政府机构。
And other and other governmental, Italian governmental institutions that are very clever to do scans, in situ scans.
所以我们没有使用我的技术。
So we are not using my, my technique.
我们使用的是当今科学界公认的尖端技术。
We use the state of the art technique that it is recognized by science today.
我们的目标是集中精力研究我向你们展示过的那些竖井，因为我们已经观察到它们，而且我们有99%的把握认为这些是通向下方结构的天然入口。
And our intention is to concentrate the efforts on those shafts that I that I showed you, that we we we have seen because we are co, we are not ninety ninety nine percent convinced that or sure that those those are natural entrance into the the the structures that are below that are located below.
因为我们发现了垂直结构，而你们在断层扫描图上也看到了水平连接。
Because we have the vertical structures and you saw on the on the tomography, you have also horizontal connections.
所以有走廊吗？
So there's corridors?
是的。
Yes.
这些走廊有多大？
You have And how large are these corridors?
它们大约有三米高。
About they they are tall, about three meters tall.
好的。
Okay.
所以大约九英尺高？
So about nine feet tall?
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
通过这些走廊，你们将直接到达我们之前观察到的那些线圈内部。
That that will we using these corridors, you will arrive directly inside the the the coils that we are that we are visualizing that we we visualize before.
所以有通道和竖井，是的。
So there's passages and shafts Yes.
这些巨大的通道可以在各个结构之间来回穿梭。
And these enormous ways that they can go back and forth in between these various structures.
我们现在必须清理这些竖井。
The thing that we have to do now is to clean those shafts.
我们必须进行清理，因为现在里面都是沙子。
We have to do cleaning because now they are Sand.
是的。
Yeah.
碎片。
Debris.
是的。
Yeah.
你们希望什么时候开始清理这些竖井并开展这类工作？
And is there a timeline on when you would like to start cleaning these shafts and start doing this kind of stuff?
这取决于我们什么时候提交了项目。
It depends when we submitted the project.
项目已经准备好了。
The project is ready.
我认识一些住在埃及的人，当我们准备好了，就可以提交项目提案。
I know people that are living in in in Egypt that when we are ready, we can submit the project proposal.
然后，当我们政府批准了项目，我们就可以开始了。
Then we are, we are at when the government we if if approved the project, we can start.
现在，我想象像这样规模的项目需要巨额资金。
Now, would imagine that something like this, something at this scale would require enormous funding.
是的。
Yeah.
你们打算如何筹集这笔资金呢？
And how do you how do you hope to acquire that?
我们可以告诉人们，这项工作不是为了我，而是为了全人类。
We we can make we can say people that this this work is not for me, but is for humans.
因此，我们请求人们帮助我们筹款来开展这项工作。
And so people we we we ask people to help us in getting money to perform the work.
我们必须向人们求助。
We have to ask people.
你有没有联系过像杰夫·贝佐斯、埃隆·马斯克这样有钱人，他们可能会对这样的项目感兴趣？
Have you reached out to any like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk type people that have tons of money that might be interested in doing something like this?
我不认识他们，乔。
I don't know them, Joe.
你不认识他们？
You don't know them?
不认识。
No.
但也许
But maybe
这要求太高了。
It's a big ask.
是的。
Yes.
这要求太高了，你知道的，提这样的要求。
It's a big ask, you know, asking.
这要求太高了。
It's a big ask.
也许需要几十亿美元去金字塔底下挖掘。
Maybe a few billion dollars to go dig around under the pyramids.
我的意思是，你觉得做这件事得花多少钱？
I mean, how much money do you think it cost to to do this?
要完成的话，我们得估算一下，大概，大概需要两千万美元左右，或者更多。
To do we we we have to do we did we did an estimation of the the an estimation about, about, I don't know, for maybe, maybe belonging for 20 millions or, or more.
两千万美元。
$20,000,000.
是的。
Yes.
而且
And
这只是为了清理竖井并深入其下方。
this is just to clean the shaft and go underneath it.
那为什么需要这么多钱？
And because, why so much money?
因为我们的目标是确保安全。
Because we are, our intention is to work safety.
我不希望有人必须下到竖井里工作。
I don't want that people has to go down the shaft and work.
我们打算使用无人机和机器人，对吧。
We will, we want to use drones, robots Right.
让事情自动化，用机器而不是人来下去。
To, to make something automatically and so go down by using machines, not humans.
是的。
Yeah.
这很有道理。
That makes sense.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这样你就能获得准确的实时视频，
And that way you can get accurate real time video and
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
哇。
Wow.
通过摄像头，这将会是一种突破。
With cameras and it it will be something.
我正在考虑这件事。
I I am thinking about this.
也许它是目前我们所研究的最古老的巨石结构之一，而如今我们能用最先进的技术将其复原。
The most maybe it is one of the most ancient megalytic structure that we are dealing now can be recovered by the most modern technology that we have now today.
因此，我们可以将现代与前所未见的元素结合起来复原它。
And so we can recover it modern and unseen together.
所以你现在一直在做这个演讲，
So you've been giving this presentation now
是的。
Yes.
而且你一直在四处奔波。
And you've been going around.
这感觉怎么样？
What has that been like?
大家对它的反响如何？
What has the reception of it been like?
是的。
Yes.
温和的正面反响。
Moderate positive reception.
温和的正面。
Moderate positive.
所以人们会说，如果这是真的，那太惊人了，但你得给我更多证据。
So people that are like, if this is true, it's amazing, but you have to show me more.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
我跟你说，在这个项目提案里，我退出了。
I tell you, in this project proposal, I am out.
你退出了。
You're out.
是的。
Yes.
这比费拉拉大学更好，那是意大利最重要的大学之一，可以留在那里并管理所有工作。
It is better than that Universio Ferrara, that is one of the most important university in Italy, can stay there and manage all the work.
这样更好。
It's better.
对。
Right.
而我退出了。
And I'm out.
对。
Right.
你向他们展示那里有什么。
You show them what's there.
是的。
Yes.
你向他们展示这项技术。
You show them the technology.
现在
Now
是的
Yes.
祝你好运
Good luck.
谢谢
Thank you.
谢谢
Thank you.
谢谢，祝你好运
Thank you, and good luck.
那么给我讲讲这个演示吧。
So tell me about this presentation.
那么你是怎么设置的？
So how do you set this up?
我知道你带了一些这个演示的幻灯片。
I know you you brought some of the slides of this presentation.
是的。
Yes.
告诉我你是怎么设置的。
Tell tell me how you set this up.
你？
How you?
你是怎么设置它的。
How you set it up.
所以，当你面对那些持半怀疑态度的科学家，告诉他们‘我即将改写人类历史’时，你要怎么向他们解释呢？
So how you explain it to these when you have these semi skeptical scientists that are sitting down there and you're gonna tell them I'm about to rewrite human history.
你是怎么设置它的？
How do you set this up?
哦，他们听得很认真，还问我一些问题，每个人最先问我的都是它是怎么运作的。
Oh, they were they were listening me very well and they asking me things about how they everyone, the first thing that they ask me is how it works.
这很好。
And that's good.
所以我慢慢向他们解释它是如何运作的，以及我是如何逐步做出这个演示的，以呈现我们的研究结果，等等。
And so I slowly explain explain them how it works and how I arrived to to to make this presentation so to have our results and and so and so on.
他们当中有些人持怀疑态度，有些人则怀疑得少一些。
And they they they someone of them is skeptical, someone a bit less skeptical.
这正是你想要的。
Which is what you want.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
你希望就这类问题展开健康的讨论
You want healthy debate about this kind
讨论。
debate.
是的。
Yes.
因为这是发现真相的唯一方式。
Because it's the only way you find out what the truth is.
是的。
Yes.
只有进行健康的辩论，我们才能找到真相。
Only only having you a healthy debate, we can find what is the truth.
我不希望为我本人制造对立。
I I don't want to polarize people for me.
你知道的？
You know?
这不是我的职责。
It's not my it's not my job.
不。
No.
不仅如此。
Well, not only that.
你不仅仅是在发现什么。
It's not you're just discovering something.
是的。
Yes.
这是本来就存在的东西。
This is something that's there.
人们只用怀疑的眼光看待，却根本不加以审视，这太疯狂了。
And for people to just put on a skeptical lens and just not look at it at all is crazy.
对。
Yes.
如果你持怀疑态度，我们或许应该去探索一下。
Like, if you're skeptical, we should probably explore it.
如果你错了，那就算了。
And if you're wrong, okay.
现在我们知道这是不真实的。
Now we know it's not true.
但如果这是真的，不进行调查就是一种罪过。
But if it is true, it's a crime to not investigate.
不要调查。
Do not investigate.
不进行调查才是罪过。
It's a crime to not investigate.
是的。
Yes.
我告诉你，我们不需要挖洞，破坏现在被保护的东西。
And I tell you, the the solution to we we don't we don't have to dig holes, ruin the what is now preserved.
不。
No.
我们只需要清理足够的部分。
We we have to only clean enough.
我们只需要清理。
We have to only clean.
我们必须利用现有的东西。
And we have to use what there is made.
这是为我们而设的，因为这些竖井。
It's for us because These shafts.
竖井，是的。
Shafts Yeah.
它们是为我们而建的。
They are for us.
它们在召唤我们。
They are calling us.
我们有权利清理它们并查看里面有什么。
We're our our rights are to clean them and see what there is.
并且亲自下去探索它们。
And go go down and explore them personally.
嗯，如果这些竖井确实存在，而且处于你描述的深度和尺寸，那确实支持了你的说法。
Well, it just seems like if these shafts exist at alone and they are at that depth that you described and they are the dimensions you described, it really does lend credence to what you're saying.
是的。
Yeah.
因为这些竖井似乎有其特定的用途。
Because it it seems like there's a purpose for those things.
如果它们真的延伸到那些结构所在的区域，那说明那里一定有什么东西。
And if they do go down to the area where all these structures are, it seems like there's something there.
在我看来，它们是被有意识建造的。
In my personal opinion, they were built purposely.
如果你看看那些，它们可能是入口。
And if you see the They're access points, probably.
对。
Yes.
这些入口。
The access points.
它们可能是为了这样而建造的，乔，当你深入地下时，温度会大幅上升。
They are they were made probably to you know, Joe, when you go deeper below the earth, the temperature rises a lot.
因此，温度随深度增加而上升的比例是一定的。
So there is a certain ratio of where the temperature rises proportional to the depth that you are going.
所以这些竖井是特意建造的，其功能是输送空气、光线，并保持内部凉爽。
So the shafts are made purposely to take the the the function is to transport air, light, and so cool what there is inside.
这说得通。
Well, that makes sense.
是的。
Yeah.
还有通行功能。
And also access.
给我看看你演示文稿中的其他幻灯片和其他内容，这样我们可以更全面地了解我们正在研究的东西。
Show me some other other slides and other things that are in your presentation so you can get a more comprehensive understanding of what we're looking at.
好的。
Okay.
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