#2451 - 谢丽尔·海因斯

这时候你就该出来了。

That's when you get out.

但如果你在里面待上几个小时，那就没命了。

But if you stayed in there for a few hours, you're a dead man.

我本来就有点慌了，心想，这真是一个家伙和他那帮人干过的最疯狂的事了。

And so I'm kind of freaking out already, and I'm like, this is the nuttiest story of one guy and his cohorts who have been doing this kind of shit.

他们疫情期间干的那些事——打压其他药物，推销自己能大赚一笔的产品，欺骗公众，篡改数据，这些他们早在艾滋病危机时就干过了。

The same shit they were doing during the pandemic, suppressing other medication, promoting something that they had that they're gonna make a massive profit off of, gaslighting people, lying about the data, lying about this is the thing they did during the AIDS crisis.

危机。

Crisis.

对，没错。

And Yeah.

确实如此。

Yeah.

而且每一页都有无数的脚注

And there are footnote after footnote

对。

Yes.

一个引用接着一个引用

Reference after reference

没错。

Exactly.

说这个是这里有个东西。

Saying this is here's this.

那里有个东西。

Here's that.

我不是编造的

I'm not making

这些都是有据可查的。

this up.

诉讼案件

Lawsuits.

没人打算起诉他。

No one's tried to sue him.

你们知道，这一点我一直想提出来。

They you're and this is one thing I keep bringing up.

如果那些都是假的，人们早就该拿出证据证明它不真实了。

If none if that was lies, people would have they would document how it's not true.

他们会出示实际的文件。

They would show the actual paperwork.

他们会展示真实的数据。

They'd show the actual data.

这根本不是假的。

This is how it's not no.

全都是真的，这就让人想问：我怎么之前一点都不知道？

It's all true, which is you go, well, how do I not know this?

我们国家的新闻报道到底有多不负责任？这种事情发生了这么久，居然要等这个人出书，大家才开始讨论。

And what what kind of irresponsible journalism do we have in this country where this has happened, and it takes this one guy to publish this book before people start talking about it.

是的

Yeah.

我也了解他作为环境律师的工作。

I also knew his work as an environmental attorney.

没错。

Right.

我觉得这一点非常重要，大家应该意识到。

I think that was that's a very important thing for people to realize.

他所做的，本质上是帮助清理了东河。

Like, what he did was essentially help clean up the East River.

如果不是因为他和他的努力，那条河现在可能还是个污染严重的垃圾场，除非有其他人站出来阻止这些企业排污，并强迫他们清理干净。

And if it wasn't for him and his work, that would still be probably a polluted shithole unless somebody else came along and stopped these corporations from polluting the river and then forced them to clean it up.

没错。

Right.

那真是

That's

对。

Right.

规模巨大。

Gigantic.

顺便说一下，当人们提起鲍比，想把他描绘成一个想伤害人、害死人之类的人时，

And by the way, you know, when people talk about Bobby and they want to paint him as somebody who is trying to hurt people or kill people or whatever that sounds like or looks like.

但你看看他的职业生涯、他这个人，以及他所取得的成就——他花了很多时间起诉大公司，因为他们污染水道，伤害人们，害人得癌症。

When you look at his career and who he is and what he's accomplished, yeah, he spent a lot of time suing huge corporations because they're polluting waterways, because it's hurting people, killing people, giving people cancer.

那他为什么一辈子都在为普通人、为个体争取权益，却突然间转性，想要伤害这么多人呢？

So why would he spend all of his life fighting for people, fighting for individuals, you know, and then suddenly change and want to really hurt a lot of people?

这根本说不通。

It just doesn't track.

完全不合逻辑。

It doesn't make sense at all.

这件事的起因其实是疫苗，以及他对疫苗主流说法的质疑，而如今这种质疑已经变得普遍多了。

Well, the whole thing came about because of vaccines and his questioning of the vaccine narrative, which is now way more mainstream.

因为我和很多人一样，觉得科学家肯定是对的。

Because I, like many people, said the scientists must be correct.

别人都疯了。

Everybody else is a kook.

你必须打疫苗。

You gotta get your vaccines.

该做什么就做什么吧。

You gotta do whatever you have to do.

但我当时也听说，我有个朋友的孩子打了疫苗后，就不再回应任何人了，从此再也没有反应过来。

But I was also pretty aware of I had a a friend who had a child that they vaccinated him, and when they vaccinated him, he stopped responding, and he never responded again.

他这一生都成了非语言自闭症患者。

He became nonverbal autistic for his whole life.

是的。

Yeah.

他坚信这完全是疫苗引发的反应。

And he firmly believed it was because of the child's reaction to the vaccines.

提起这个可是个禁忌。

That's a taboo to bring up.

你一说这个，别人马上就躲开了。

When you bring that up, people immediately back off.

他们害怕了。

They get scared.

他们紧张了。

They get nervous.

我坚信，当你对这类话题产生如此强烈的本能反应，却不理性地去审视客观事实时，

I firmly believe that when you have this sort of a visceral reaction reaction to any sort of a subject like that without a a rational examining of what is objective truth

没错。

Right.

一旦出现这种本能反应，就说明出问题了。

When you have that visceral reaction, something's happened.

你已经被操控了。

You've been co opted.

你脑子里有个念头，觉得不能质疑这个，否则就会被孤立。

There's a thought in your head that you can't question this or you'll be ostracized.

你会被赶出这个群体，这个圈子。

You'll be cast out of the crew you the crew, the tribe.

你就被排除在外了。

You're out.

对。

Yeah.

而这就是每个人都在害怕的事。

And that's what everyone's afraid of.

确实如此，因为正如我们所见，事情就是这样的。

That is what because that is what happens as we as as we've seen.

但说到这点，作为母亲，听到父母说‘这是我的亲身经历’，真的让人特别沮丧。

But to that point, you know, as mother, it's so frustrating to hear parents say, this is my experience.

这是我和我孩子相处时的真实体验。

This is the experience I had with my own child.

我每天都和这个孩子在一起。

I'm with this child every day.

打完疫苗后，孩子变了。

After the vaccine, there was a change.

事情就是这样发生的。

Is what happened.

这就是我的亲身经历。

This is my experience.

别人居然还因为她们提起这件事而生气？就像你说的那样。

And for people to get mad at them for even, like you're saying, talking about it?

对啊。

Mhmm.

她们连分享自己的经历都不被允许。

They're not allowed to talk about the experience they had

这太荒谬了。

It's crazy.

应该问问为什么会发生，让大伙儿聊聊，看看有没有相似的经历，也许能找出更好的办法。

Ask why it happened or, you know, let people talk to each other to see if they have shared experiences that can lead us to something better.

没错。

Right.

太荒唐了。

It's crazy.

太荒唐了。

It's crazy.

这不应该被接受。

And it shouldn't be it shouldn't be accepted.

我们不该这样交流。

We shouldn't communicate like that.

这不理智。

It's not smart.

我们被骗了太多次了。

It's we've been lied to so many times.

我的意思是，你凭什么觉得这事就真结束了？

I mean, why would you just assume that that stopped, that that has ended?

你想想看，政府和制药公司多少次撒过谎，或者至少犯过错误。

You know, if you just go back and think about all the different things that both the government and, of course, pharmaceutical drug companies have lied about or at least been wrong about.

对。

Right.

他们撤回的药品数量多得惊人。

The amount of drugs that they had to pull, it's fuck substantial.

这可不是小数目。

It's a giant chunk.

这正是问题的关键。

Well, that's the question.

我们都知道，曾经有不少药，大家都觉得有效又安全。

So we understand and accept that there have been drugs out there that everybody thought were good, were helpful.

可十年、二十年后，公司的科学家们才发现，原来这些药害处比好处还多。

And then ten years later, twenty years later, the company's scientists, whomever realize, oh, actually, they're doing more harm than good.

说到反应停？

About thalidomide?

它导致了婴儿出生缺陷。

Like, it did with birth defects in children.

你知道吗？

It's you know what?

这太离谱了。

It's crazy.

他们以前还给孕妇开这种药。

They used to prescribe that to mothers.

这就像做X光检查一样。

Well, it's even like getting X rayed.

是的。

Yeah.

很久以前，医生会给孕妇做X光，就为了看看胎儿发育得怎么样。

They used to have mothers, you know, that were pregnant, X rayed to see how the baby was doing for a long time.

要是真能让孩子获得超能力就好了，可惜从来不会发生。

It'd be cool if it gave the baby superpowers, but it never does.

这种事只会在科幻作品里出现。对。

Only happens in the science Yeah.

而且从来不会

And that never

结果总是搞砸，根本行不通。

works out on the in good

方面。

ways.

在科幻小说里。

In science fiction.

对。

Yeah.

要是觉得有点不对劲，那也没关系。

If you feel a little off, it's okay.

现在是二月。

It's February.

二月的时候，人人都会觉得有点不对劲。

Everybody feels a little off in February.

天更黑了。

It's darker.

天气更冷了。

It's colder.

你可能已经放弃了一些新年计划，但不用等到春天才能重新调整状态。

You probably already gave up on some New Year's resolutions, but you don't have to wait till spring to get yourself right again.

一切从改变日常的小习惯开始，其中一项就是AG1。

It all starts with making small changes to your routine, and one of those is AG1.

这并不是什么大张旗鼓的彻底重启。

It's not some big dramatic reset.

这只是每天早上做的一件小事，能让你在其他一切都乱糟糟的时候依然保持稳定。

It's one small thing that you could do every morning to keep consistent when everything else is chaos.

一勺，搞定。

One scoop, done.

AG1能帮你提升精力、改善肠道健康，还能帮你度过那些阴暗的傍晚。

AG1 can help support your energy, your gut health, and can support you through the darker evenings.

它从早到晚为你提供基础营养支持，说到底，就是帮你补足每天所需的营养。

It gives that foundational support from morning to night, and it all comes down to getting your daily nutrition.

它含有75多种成分，包括抗氧化物、矿物质、益生菌和功能性蘑菇，帮助增强免疫力和整体健康。

There's more than 75 ingredients, including antioxidants, minerals, probiotics, and functional mushrooms to support your immune health and overall health.

这一年里这个时候，它特别管用。

And this is the time of year when it can really help.

如果你想试试，去 drinkag1.com/rogan，首次订阅就能免费获得三份AG1旅行装、维生素D3加K2，还有其他赠品。

If you wanna check it out, go to drinkag1.com/rogan, and you'll get three a g one travel packs, vitamin d three plus k two, and other gifts free in your welcome kit with your first subscription.

网址是 drinkag1.com/rogan。

That's drinkag1.com/rogan.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这太强烈了。

It's intense.

你有没有看过那些曾经在X光室工作的女性的照片？

Do you ever see those images of what happened to the women that used to work in those X-ray offices?

每天她们都得打开X光机。

So every day, they used to have to turn on the x-ray machine.

她们会拿自己的手去照X光，确认机器是否正常工作。

They would x-ray their hand to make sure that it would work.

天哪。

Oh, no.

我从来没听说过。

I didn't.

结果都得了手部癌症。

All got, like, hand cancer.

天啊，太可怕了。

Oh, it's horrible.

奇怪的是，她们一只手看起来正常，另一只却像女巫的手一样扭曲变形。

It's weird because they have one hand that looks normal and one hand that looks like a like a wicked witch hand.

没错。

Right.

所以你看啊。

So See

如果你能找到一些这样的照片就好了。

if you can find some of those.

当时规定很宽松，因为我们根本不知道那有多危险。

It's very strict because we didn't know any better.

没错。

Right.

因为那时候没人提醒我们，也没人出来警告。

Because we didn't nobody nobody was out to Yeah.

杀人？不会。

Kill anybody No.

不是故意去伤害人，但确实造成了伤害。

To murder to do harm, but it was doing harm.

咱们先退一步，重新想想，换个做法。

So let's take a step back, readjust, and do something different.

制药公司投入了巨额资金，就是为了掌控甚至影响公众舆论。

Well, the extreme amount of money that pharmaceutical drug companies have put into making sure that they're in control of the narrative or at least they're influencing the narrative.

这简直就是奴隶制。

So, like, this is a slave.

天哪。

Woah.

这难道不荒唐吗？

Ain't that crazy?

这难道不荒唐吗？

Isn't that crazy?

这太离谱了。

That's crazy.

而这只是对手部进行X光照射的结果。

And that's just from x raying your hand.

他们说每天都会用它来校准设备。

Said they would use it to calibrate the machine every day.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

他们会先测试自己的

They'll test their

手。

hand first.

那位女士把手给烤熟了。

That lady cooked her hand.

这难道不让人震惊吗？

Isn't that awful?

哦，这太吓人了。

Oh, it's so spooky.

这真的太离谱了。

That's really crazy.

天哪。

Yikes.

你可能答不上来，但我也许知道。

What what are the you're not gonna have the answer to this, but I might.

我们在机场得经历哪些检查啊？

What are the what are the things, you know, that we have to go through in the airport?

哦，是安检。

Oh, TSA.

对。

Yeah.

不是的。

No.

那是无线电。

That's radio.

对。

Yeah.

那是一种无线电频率。

That's like a radio frequency.

对吧？

Right?

那是什么？

What is that?

我们查一下吧。

Let's let's pull that up.

我觉得这没什么危险，但确实很多人觉得Wi-Fi有危险。

I do not think that that's dangerous, but, look, there's a lot of people that think Wi Fi is dangerous.

很多人还认为5G有危险。

There's a lot of people that think that five g is dangerous.

他们觉得就连汽车发出的电磁场都有危险。

They think that EMF from even cars is dangerous.

有人告诉你，别戴耳塞。

There's people telling you you shouldn't have earbuds in your ears.

你知道的。

You know?

能用有线耳机或者外放，就尽量用吧。

You should only listen with a cord or speaker if you can.

没错。

Right.

对。

Yeah.

这其实挺有道理的。

Well, it makes sense.

东西直接往你脑袋里送，直通大脑。

You've got things going directly into your head, to your brain.

这可能对你不太好，但你想啊，戴AirPods的人这么多，真有那么大危害吗？

It's probably not the best thing for you, but I mean, it's like, how many people are wearing AirPods and how little damage is it actually doing?

这才是关键问题。

That's the question.

说到底，真正的问题到底是什么？

It's like, how what is the real issue?

大多数机场安检扫描仪用的是毫米波无线电波。

Most TSA body scanners use use millimeter wave radio waves.

明白。

K.

所以不是X光，也不会增加你的电离辐射暴露。

So not X rays and do not add to your ionizing radiation exposure.

也就是说，它不是靠X光工作的。

So so it's not X-ray based.

对吧？

Right?

这是无线电波。

It's radio wave.

但具体是什么呢？

But is it what is it?

它有危险吗？

Is it dangerous?

这个剂量和坐飞机比起来怎么样？

How does the dose compare to a flight?

那是什么？

What is that?

X光扫描仪？

X-ray scanners?

那只是扫描仪而已。

That's just scanners.

我不会抗拒的。

I wouldn't resist it.

你看一下就行

Dam just look at

相信吧，这没什么问题。

mind faith that this is okay.

再跟进一下。

Follow-up.

毫米波扫描仪的辐射。

Millimeter wave scanner radiation.

这有危险吗？

Is it dangerous?

它有什么危害吗？

Is there any dangerous aspects of it?

卫生和辐射防护机构指出，老式背散射X光扫描仪的辐射剂量极低。

Health and radiation protection agencies note that doses from older backscatter X-ray scanners were extremely low.

对。

Yeah.

随便吧。

Whatever.

可他们一开机，躲得远远的。

Meanwhile, they fucking don't go anywhere near it when they turn it on.

对吧？

Right?

你去牙医诊所的时候，他们立马躲到

When you go to the dentist office, they hop behind

隔壁房间的墙后面，你是不是觉得莫名其妙？

a brick the other room, and you're like, what?

他们简直躲在掩体里。

They're in a fucking bunker.

就在我脑袋旁边。

Right next to my head.

是的。

Yeah.

他们还让你穿上那种铅制防护服，真的。

And they make you wear, like, a lead vest over your your Yeah.

全身都裹得严严实实。

Body.

是的。

Yeah.

这太夸张了。

It's intense.

我的意思是，我

I mean, I'm

现在还这么操作吗？

Do they still do that?

对，还在用。

Yes.

真的吗？

Yeah?

是的。

Yes.

我好一阵子没穿过那种带铅衣的了。

I haven't got one of those with the lead vest in a while.

没有。

No.

你说得对。

And they you're right.

他们让你去另一个房间，但会说别动。

Go They into the other room, but they're like, don't move.

你就坐在那儿，身上穿着那个，你知道的……

And you're just sitting there with a, you know

如果非得用一个词来形容这些全身扫描仪的话。

If there's any word anyone should have about these body scanners.

让我想想。

Let's see.

我的意思是，我可不是想惹什么争议。

I mean, I don't wanna I'm not causing any outrage here.

我只是有点好奇。

I'm just curious.

是的。

Yeah.

确实挺让人好奇的。

It's curious.

挺好的。

Just fine.

你知道，就像那种——

You know, like,

TSA那些设备有危险吗？

is it The TSA ones are dangerous.

明白了。

Okay.

主要的卫生机构认为，在机场使用的这种辐射水平下，并没有发现明确的健康风险，但人们还是提出了一些实际的顾虑。

Major health agencies did not see any proven health risk at the levels used, but people still raise a few practical concerns.

毫米波扫描仪使用的是低功率、非电离的无线电波。

So millimeter wave scanners use low power, non ionizing radio waves.

各项研究和评估都表明，机场安检所用的功率水平不会对人体造成有害影响。

The studies and reviews have not found harmful effects at the power levels used in airport screening.

敏感人群。

Sensitive groups.

有分析专门模拟了儿童和孕妇的潜在风险。

Analysis that modeled risk for children, pregnant people.

啊？什么？

Oh, what?

为什么写的是‘孕妇’？

Why does it say pregnant people?

哪些人是可以怀孕的？

Which kind of people can get pregnant?

你觉得呢，AI？

Do you think hey, AI.

嘿，天才。

Hey, super genius.

你觉得可能是女性吧，你这个混蛋？

You think maybe it's women, you fucking asshole?

经常乘飞机的人也发现，背散射扫描仪带来的额外风险极低，远低于常规医疗X光，甚至低于飞行本身所受的辐射。

And frequent flyers still found that low added risk from backscatter scanners, far below routine medical X rays or even the radiation from flying itself.

嗯，这确实也是个问题。

Well, that that is a thing too.

好的。

Alright.

飞机上的辐射。

Radiation in the plane.

当你在飞行的时候。

Flying when you're flying.

我的意思是，事情太多了。

I mean, there's so many things.

这不就跟随手搜一下一样吗？

Isn't it just like Let's Google that.

我们全都要完蛋了。

We're all going down.

你去Perplexity上查一下吧。

Put that into perplexity, please.

为什么飞行会这样？

What is why is Flying.

飞行？

Flying?

为什么飞行会带来辐射？

Why why does that give you radiation?

是因为我们离太阳更近吗？

Is it because you're closer to the sun?

那到底是什么呢？

Like, what is it?

是因为防护更少吗？

Your less protection?

对。

Yes.

是这样。

It's

没错。

yeah.

是因为这个吗？

Is that what

对。

it is?

对。

Yes.

就只是这样吗？

Is that all it is?

是的。

Yeah.

主要是你身处高处，

Most I mean, you

你知道你位置很高吧？

know You're up high?

对。

Yeah.

没什么东西能散射它。

There's not a lot of stuff to diffuse it.

空气更少。

Less air.

对吧？

Right?

我最近也看到有人提到，头后面放着屏幕，因为里面就有一个。

Something that I saw someone bring up recently too, having those screens right behind your head because there's one in there.

哦，那对你肯定不好。

Oh, Oh, that's gotta be bad for you.

就在你脑袋里，毫米级的距离。

Millimeter in your head.

飞机上的Wi-Fi，信号就在机舱里来回反射。

Well, Wi Fi on the plane, it's like just bouncing around.

是啊，没错。

Is it yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我意思是，

I Well,

他们以前用

they used

能抽烟。

to be able to smoke.

这太离谱了。

Which is crazy.

我坐的那架飞机上有禁烟标志，但情况从来都不好。

I was just the plane that I was on had the no smoking sign, and it's never good.

登上那种飞机感觉特别不舒服。

Feel super uncomfortable getting on that plane.

感觉确实不好。

It's not a good feel.

老掉牙的飞机。

Old ass plane.

是啊。

Yeah.

当你觉得，好吧。

When you're like, okay.

这飞机到底有多老？

How old is this fucking plane?

以前座位上还配有小烟灰缸。

And they used to have little ashtrays.

你还记得吗？

Remember those?

记得。

Yes.

就在座位上？

In the seats?

这真的太离谱了。

And that's really crazy.

普通航班飞行时，你所接受的额外宇宙辐射量，大致相当于把一次X光检查的剂量分散在几个小时里。

And typical commercial flight, you get a small dose of extra cosmic radiation on the order of what you expect from a medical X-ray spread out over several hours.

天哪。

Woah.

我的意思是，每次坐飞机都像做了一次X光检查？

I mean So every time you fly, it's like getting X rayed?

这真有点吓人。

That's kinda crazy.

那飞行员呢？他们怎么样？

What what happens to pilots?

好吧。

Okay.

这是个问题。

That's question.

这是个好问题。

That's a good question.

飞行员长时间飞行，会因为辐射而有健康风险吗？

Do pilots have any health risks from radiation exposure while flying?

是的。

Yeah.

这确实是个好问题。

It's a good question.

因为我觉得，如果你天天都在飞的话……

Oh, because I would imagine if you're flying all the time

受影响最大的应该是飞行员。

They're the ones that would

简直就像每天都在做一次X光检查。

It's like getting an X-ray every day.

我的意思是，现在什么东西都在害人。

That's I mean, everything is killing us.

对吧？

Right?

所以我才来听的。

That's why I came on.

我想知道到底什么会要了我们的命。

I I wanted to hear what's gonna kill us.

首先。

First.

我觉得没那么多危险因素。

I don't think There's so many things.

是的。

Yes.

会不会是第一波把我们干掉的，比如一颗小行星？

This is gonna be a like a

我不觉得所有东西都那么致命。

I don't think everything's

陨石先砸中我们？

Meteorite that's gonna hit us first?

行。

K.

但现在也有很多东西让我们活得更久。

But there's a lot of stuff keeping us alive longer now too.

飞行员和其他空乘人员接触到的辐射确实比普通旅客多，但这是否会导致健康问题，目前还在研究中，好吧。

Pilots and other aircrew do get more radiation than tip or travelers, but whether that causes health problems still being studied Okay.

从个人角度来看，额外的风险似乎并不大。

And any added risk appears modest on a personal level.

真正最适合研究这个问题的，其实是飞行员和空乘人员，看看长期飞行到底对身体有没有害。

Like, they would be the ones that you would be able to study from the best whether or not flying and flight attendants, whether or not flying is actually bad for you.

不过，我们到现在还没听到任何相关消息。

Well, we haven't heard anything yet.

对。

No.

那倒是好消息。

So that's good news.

你想想看。

Imagine that

要是真有事，早该有人说了。

Somebody would have said something.

许多研究发现，飞行员和空乘人员患某些癌症的比例更高。

Many studies find pilots and flight attendants have higher rates of some cancers.

哎呀。

Uh-oh.

尤其是黑色素瘤和其他皮肤癌，有些研究还提到乳腺癌。

Particularly, melanoma and other skin cancers, and in some studies, breast cancer.

不过，综合评估认为，目前还不清楚这些癌症中有多少是来自宇宙辐射，又有多少是由于睡眠紊乱等其他因素造成的。

However, reviews say it's not clear how much of it is from cosmic radiation versus other factors such as disrupted sleep.

确实如此。

That's true.

比如在非工作时间接触紫外线，还有生活习惯的影响。

Like UV exposure during off time and lifestyle.

目前还没有确凿证据表明飞行本身的辐射会直接导致这些疾病。

Firm causal link to flight radiation alone has not been established.

这和睡眠紊乱的说法是吻合的，我以前认识一位飞行员，经常飞深夜航班，他说你的身体真的会被折腾得够呛。

That does make sense with the disrupted sleep because I I talked to a pilot once who did, like, a lot of late night flights, and he's like, your your whole body is just so wrecked.

比如上夜班的人。

Like, people who do the night shift.

对啊。

Like Yeah.

这对你肯定没好处。

That can't be good for you.

你的生物钟全乱了。

Well, your circadian rhythm's all fucked up.

你白天睡觉。

You're sleeping during the day.

能适应吗？

Adjust, though?

难道不能只是

Can't it would just If

你可以的。

you can.

但如果你每天晚上都值夜班的话

But if you're the guy who gets the night shift every night

是的

Yeah.

比如说你在工厂上班，晚上八点就得打卡上班

You know, you're working at a factory and you you punch in at, like, 8PM.

对

Yeah.

这根本就是你的生活方式了，哥们

Like, you're not that's just your life, man.

没错

Yeah.

你

You

你的生活就是这样的

that's how you live.

这就跟拍电影一样，连续拍三四次夜戏。

That's like shooting a film, and you do, like, three or four night shoots.

对啊。

Mhmm.

总有人会崩溃。

Someone snaps.

是的。

Yeah.

总会有一个人突然就受不了了，

There's always one person that just, like,

撑不住了。

goes Can't handle it.

疯了似的。

Freaking crazy.

或者有人会说，

Or someone oh,

不会吧。

no.

查德突然说：‘我们失去查德了。’

Chad just went we just lost Chad.

我不知道他怎么了，但他彻底崩溃了。

I don't know what happened to him, but he freaked out.

有些人一睡不着，就变得特别情绪化。

Some people, when they can't sleep, they become big babies.

是的。

Yeah.

特别容易激动。

Very emotional.

是的。

Yeah.

特别容易激动。

Very emotional.

在片场，演员们有时候会有一种特权心态，容易对自身处境习以为常，忘了自己能做这份工作其实有多幸运。

Well, there's a thing there's an indulgence on sets too from actors that's like there's a kind of a lack of appreciation sometimes of because you just get accustomed to it of how fortunate you are to be able to do what you do.

是的。

Yeah.

能当上电影演员的人，其实少之又少。

You know, very few people get to be an actor in a movie.

是的。

Yeah.

你因为没睡好就急得团团转。

And you're spazzing out because you didn't get enough sleep.

是的。

Yeah.

可与此同时，剧组的人也没睡好，你知道的。

And it meanwhile, the crew Right.

他们真的都没睡够。

Really didn't get enough sleep.

他们连觉都没睡成

They didn't have sleep

也是

either.

他们比你早到两小时，下班也比你晚两小时

They're they're working two hours before you and two hours after.

但他们要是撑不住，立马就被炒了

But if they spaz out, they'll get fired.

是啊

Yeah.

当场就走人

Immediately.

对

Yeah.

这就是区别

And that's the difference.

这根本不是平等的问题。

Like, it's not an equality thing.

这些人自己都觉得自己像皇室成员一样，在片场走来走去。

So these people all they're they're aware they're like royalty walking around this film set.

说实话，挺奇怪的。

You know, it's kind of odd.

确实挺奇怪的。

Well, it is odd.

但与此同时，这也是一种非常独特的体验。

And at the same time, it's it's a it's a very unique experience.

对吧？

Right?

因为这个人必须面对镜头，脸上每一处细节都会在电影院里被放大到好几英尺大。

Because this person has to be on camera, and every inch of their face is, you know, gonna be six feet tall in a movie theater.

所以大家都特别留意，确保他状态好、看起来自然、感觉舒服。

And so everybody's just making sure that person is doing okay and they look okay and they feel okay.

因为如果他们状态不对，那就什么都没了。

Because if they don't, then they don't you don't have anything.

对。

Right.

就没法拍了。

You don't have anything to shoot.

所以大家都心照不宣。

So everybody is just like Yeah.

你还好吗？

Are you okay?

感觉怎么样？

Are you feeling okay?

喝水了吗？

Are you hydrated?

需要水吗？

Do you need water?

你需要一块火鸡吗？

Do you need a piece of turkey?

从长期的心理影响来看，人们通常会变得特别古怪。

Well, the results of that, like, psychologically over a prolonged period of time, people usually get really weird.

是的。

Yeah.

我同意。

Agree.

这其实是他们正常的体验。

That's the their normal experience Yeah.

大家是不是都拿他们当回事儿，跟他们打招呼？

Is everybody's treating them like, hey.

好好照顾你的头发。

Take care of your hair.

就这样吧。

There you go.

注意保护你的嘴唇。

Take care of your lips.

真好看。

Pretty.

你

You

也照顾好你的嘴唇吗？

do your lips?

确实如此。

That's true.

拍拍肩上的灰。

Brush your shoulders off.

没错。

It's true.

这事儿真怪。

It's kooky.

这太奇怪了。

It's kooky.

所以啊，那些早早起步、尤其是早期就成功的人——

And that's why, you know, the people that start early, especially that have success early

是啊。

Oh, yeah.

这并不好。

It's not Not good.

这真的不好。

It's not good.

这样开始人生，可不是什么好方式。

It's not a good way to kick off your life.

这根本就不正常。

It's like, this is not normal.

如果你觉得这很正常，那几年后你一定会特别后悔，因为

If you think this is normal, that's you're you're gonna be real sad in a few years because

而且我认为，通过这种方式是无法从一段糟糕的成长期中恢复过来的。

And I don't think you can recover from a bad developmental period that way.

这确实很难。

That's hard.

情况不一样。

It's different.

跟其他任何情况都不同。

It's different than anything else.

比如，童年不顺可能让人变得更坚强。

Like, you could have a bad childhood and it'll make you more resilient.

但要是整个世界都看着你有一个糟糕的童年，那就另当别论了。

But a bad childhood in front of the whole world Yeah.

你从来不需要真正努力，也从没经历过真正的挣扎，从小就是名人。

And you've never had to really work and you've never had to really struggle and you've been famous since you were young.

你从小跟人打交道，人家喜欢你都是因为你的作品，这情况也挺特别的。

Your So interactions with people from the time you're young is people loving you for your work, which is Yeah.

对小孩来说不太好。

Not good for kids.

确实不是。

No.

确实不是。

It's not.

还有你的外表。

And the way you look.

没错。

Right.

那也是很重要的一部分，这真的很不容易。

That that's a big part of it, which is hard.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这不只是你的工作，你知道的。

So it's not just your work, you know.

这跟我们刚才说的是一回事。

It's like what we're talking about.

做这件事的时候，你还得看起来得体。

You have to look good while you're doing it.

这本来就是工作的一部分。

That's That's part of the job.

尤其是对女性来说，这一点特别重要。

Especially as a woman, that's a big factor.

但我总拿混凝土来打比方。

But I always liken it to, like, concrete.

比如你要是混凝土配错了，像你决定搅拌了，但水加得不够，或者你想着事后还能加水——不行。

Like, if you make concrete incorrectly so, like, if you decide to mix it, but you don't add enough water or you don't it's only you can add water later No.

一旦凝固了，就没办法了。

Once it's solid.

事情就是这样，定了就改不了。

It's like, that's what it is.

它会变得

It's be

又差又脆弱，一碰就碎的混凝土。

sucky, weak ass concrete that's gonna break.

等等。

Wait.

你第一次突破是什么时候？

When did you get what what was your first break?

是新闻广播吗？

Was it was it news radio?

是的。

Yeah.

其实我上新闻广播之前，还参加过另一个节目，叫《硬球》。

Well, I was on another show before news radio called Hardball.

那是福克斯电视台的一部情景喜剧。

It was a sitcom that was on Fox.

我当初搬去洛杉矶，就是为了这个节目。

That's what I actually moved out to LA for.

如果那节目被取消了，而且我又没租公寓，我就得回纽约了。

And if if that show got canceled and if I didn't have a lease on an apartment, I would have went back to New York.

我特别讨厌那里。

I hated it.

你不是也很讨厌吗？

Didn't did you hate it?

我不喜欢整个圈子的氛围。

Well, I didn't like the whole scene.

感觉就像在拳击馆、台球厅和脱口秀俱乐部里打转。

It felt I was used to fight gyms

对。

Mhmm.

到处都是这种地方。

Pool halls, and comedy clubs.

是的

Mhmm.

我以前接触的都是这样的人。

Those are the people I was used to.

是的

Mhmm.

他们是最搞笑、最直率、最坦率的一群人，人人都爱开玩笑，气氛特别热闹。

They're they're the funniest, like, most brash, blunt people, and everybody's cracking on everybody, and it's, like, it's jolly.

那些地方确实挺热闹的。

These are those are jolly places

大部分时候是这样。

for the most part.

对。

Yeah.

然后我从那里进入了另一个奇怪的世界，大家人云亦云，天天看《好莱坞报道者》，还动不动就特别生气。

And then I went from there to this weird world of groupthink and seeing people read the Hollywood reporter every day and get really upset.

是的。

Yes.

我老跟他们说，那玩意儿是魔鬼的抹布。

And I would keep telling them, like, that's the devil's rag.

你干嘛看那个？

Like, why are you reading that?

别看那个。

Like, don't read that.

对。

Right.

他们就是气自己没拿到角色，或者没拿到片子什么的。

Because they're just mad that they didn't get the role or they they didn't get the the film or whatever.

这确实挺奇怪的，不过没错，就是这样。

It it is odd, but, yes, that's

这就像饼干一样。

It's cookie.