#2470 - 皮埃尔·波利弗

后来他在教学中发现，决定人们幸福的并不是他们的处境，

And then he found in his teaching that it wasn't so much people's circumstances that determined their happiness.

而是他们是否在生活中找到了意义。

It was whether they had a meaning in life.

他讲了一个令人惊叹的故事，关于一次团体治疗，其中有一位非常富有的女性，嫁给了一个非常富有的男人。

And he tells this incredible story of a group therapy session where he had this very rich woman who was married to a very rich man.

他旁边坐着另一位生活在极度贫困中的女士。

And he had next to him another lady who was living in terrible poverty.

她失去过一个儿子，还有一个儿子严重残疾。

She'd lost a son and had a second severely disabled son.

他问她们两人：当你80岁、躺在病床上即将离世时，你的生活会是什么样子？

And he said to both of them, what will your life look like when you're 80 years old and you're on your deathbed?

那位富有的女士说：我会回想，我曾经享受过一些乐趣，体验过富有带来的奢华和安逸的生活，但那并没有太多意义。

And the wealthier lady said, well I will look back and think that I had some fun and enjoyed the simple, the luxuries of being very wealthy and having an easy life that there wasn't a lot of meaning to it.

而那位饱受苦难的母亲，失去了一个孩子，又照顾着另一个残疾的孩子，她说：我给了我的第一个孩子一段美好的人生，虽然短暂，但非常美好。

And whereas the mother who was struggling with a disabled child and had lost another one said, well I gave my first child a great life, a short one, but a great one.

我努力让我的残疾孩子过上美好而有尊严的生活。

I struggled to give my disabled child a good dignified existence.

我离开这个世界时感到满足和幸福，因为我的人生有目标和意义。

And I leave this world satisfied and happy that my life had purpose and meaning.

我从中学到的教训是，这并不在于你拥有亿万财富或生活是否轻松。

And the lesson I take from that is that it is not about whether you have a gazillion dollars or whether your life is easy.

而在于你是否能找到一些意义，去投入你的生命。

It's whether you have some meaning to invest your life into.

我认为我们必须为人们的生活注入意义，让他们能够过上美好的生活。

And I think we have to infuse people's lives with meaning so that they that they can they can live a good life.

这真是一个很棒的讯息，我认为作为一名领导者，最重要的一点就是拥有深刻的理念、哲学和视角。

Well, that's a great message, and I think that's one of the most important parts of being a leader is having a great message and having a great philosophy and having a great perspective.

当我看到特鲁多执政时，最让我感到不安的是，我总觉得……

And, I mean, that's what disturbed me the most about when Trudeau was running the country that I I didn't feel like.

我认为他是在用觉醒政治和意识形态操控人们，这就像一条诡异的滑坡，人们正在失去权利，丧失表达自我的能力。

I thought I felt like he was manipulating people with woke politics and ideology and that it was just this weird slippery slope that people were falling down where they're losing rights and you're you're losing your ability to express yourself.

这真的让我很不安，因为我一直觉得加拿大是世界上最自由、最开放的地方之一。

And it just it just really disturbed me because I always felt that Canada was, like, one of the freest places and one of the most open minded places.

我实在不明白，怎么会这么快就变成这样。

And it just I I didn't understand how it could fall so quickly.

本集由Visible赞助播出。

This episode is brought to you by Visible.

朋友们，这个季节没人想遇到的一件事，就是被网络诈骗。

Folks, there's one thing nobody wants this season, and that's getting catfished.

风险不仅来自约会资料。

And it's not just dating profiles that are putting you at risk.

大型无线运营商也有问题。

It's also big wireless carriers.

你知道我说的是哪种。

You know the type.

一开始看起来很不错，承诺低价，但一旦你签约，就会出现意外费用，账单远超你的预期。

Looks great at first, promises a low price, but once you're locked in, surprise fees and an expensive bill that isn't what you were expecting.

你的闪亮骑士，Visible无线服务。

Your knight in shining armor, Visible wireless.

只需每月25美元，即可享受单线无限流量和热点功能，税费全包。

It's one line wireless with unlimited data and hotspot for just $25 a month taxes and fees included.

这才是真正的积极信号。

Now that's a green flag.

最棒的是，Visible完全数字化，切换速度就像滑动屏幕一样快。

The best part, Visible is all digital, so you can switch as fast as you can swipe.

别被无线运营商的骗局所迷惑。

Don't fall for the trap of getting catfished by wireless.

访问visible.com了解更多信息，开始爱上你的无线运营商。

Visit visible.com to learn more and start loving your wireless carrier.

条款适用。

Terms apply.

详情请见visible.com，了解套餐功能和网络管理信息。

See visible.com for plan features and network management details.

我们毕竟还是，你知道的，我们是自由国家，我们是民主国家。

We we still you know, we are a free country and we we are a democracy.

我们保留了这一点。

We have preserved that.

你知道，我的领导人，我有个有趣的小插曲，当时乔·拜登来到议会山，我对他说：总统先生，我是皮埃尔·波利弗。

You know, my leader, my edit with this funny moment when Joe Biden came to Parliament Hill and I said, mister president, I'm Pierre Poilievre.

我是女王陛下忠诚反对党的领袖。

I'm the leader of his majesty's loyal opposition.

他问：忠诚的反对党？

And he said, loyal opposition?

你怎么能同时既是忠诚的又是反对派呢？

How can you be loyal and opposition at the same time?

这到底是什么意思？

It's like, the hell are you talking about?

因为你知道，你们的制度是基于共和制，而我们的制度是英国体系。

And because you know, you guys have a system based on a republic, whereas ours is the British system.

在我们的制度中，反对派是一种忠诚的表现。

And in our system, the opposition is an act of loyalty.

这就是我们制度的含义。

That's what our system means.

这意味着，如果你反对政府，那是出于对人民福祉的忠诚。

It means that if you are opposing the government, you're doing it out of loyalty to the good of the people.

在我们的下议院，你们国会是半圆形的。

In our House of Commons, you have a half circle in your Congress.

我们的议会分为两派。

We have two sides in our parliament.

两派相距两个半剑身的距离，因为在古老的英国时代，他们真的会互相厮杀。

It's two and a half sword lengths apart because they used to literally kill each other in the old English days.

但其理念是，反对派要彻底追究政府的责任，让权势者低头。

But the idea is the opposition is to prosecute the hell out of the government, make the mighty low.

国家最有权力的人走进这个地方时，理应战战兢兢，因为他们知道，自己每一个错误、每一次权力滥用、任何可能的腐败行为，都会在众目睽睽之下被揭露出来。

The most powerful people in the country are supposed to tremble every time they walk in that place because knowing every mistake they made, every abuse of power, every corruption they might have done can be exposed and in front of all eyes.

因此，我们的制度通过我们所说的议会来约束政府的权力。

So our system is really designed to constrain the power of government through what we call parliament.

我不为政府工作。

Like I don't work for government.

我为议会工作，而议会为人民服务。

I work for parliament and parliament works for the people.

我们称之为下议院，因为它是普通民众的议会。

We call it the house of commons because it's the house of the common people.

那里是绿色的，因为以前他们曾在英格兰的田野里开会。

It's green in there because they used to meet in the fields of England.

因此，我真正看待议会的运作方式，是限制政府的权力，最大化人民的力量，让人民变得更强大、更充实，而政府则专注于它本应做的那些事情。

And so I really view the whirl of our parliament to limit the power of government, to maximize the power of the people, make people bigger, stronger, and more fulfilled by having the government narrowly focus on the things it's supposed to do.

道路、军事、基本社会保障、边境、警察等等，但除此之外，就让人民自由生活。

Roads, military, basic social safety net, borders, police, etcetera, but then leave people alone to live their lives.

如果我要从零开始组建一个政党，我会叫它‘管好你自己的事党’，就是让政府把工作做好，把四五件事真正做好，然后让人民自由生活。

If I were to start a political party from scratch, it would be the mind your own damn business party, You know, just get the government to do its job well, do, you know, do four or five things really well and then let people live their lives.

嗯，这听起来非常合理。

Well, that sounds very reasonable.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，任何不认同这一点、反对这一点的人，根本就说不通。

I mean, anybody that doesn't go along with that, anybody that's opposed to that, that doesn't even make sense.

没错。

No.

听我说。

Look.

就像我之前说的，根据我成长的经历和此后所见，当我与农民、工厂工人、电工交谈时，我发现他们对事物的了解丝毫不亚于，甚至超过我在议会山遇到的所谓专家。

Like I said, with the way I grew up and everything I've seen ever since, when I talk to farmers or factory workers, electricians, I find they know just as much or more than the so called experts I encounter on Parliament Hill.

比如在新冠疫情期间，当所有政府都在印钞，政客和银行家们都说，哦，这太棒了。

Like back during COVID when all these governments were printing money and all the politicians and bankers said, oh, this is great.

看看我们有这么多钱可以花。

Well, look at all this money we get to spend.

我走遍各个社区，经常听到修理工说，你知道，我们要面临通货膨胀了。

I walk around communities and I'd have like mechanics say, you know, we're going to have inflation.

我会说，这对我来说很有道理。

And I would say, yeah, it makes sense to me.

然后我回到议会山，那些专家们却都说，不，不，不会有任何通货膨胀。

And I'd go back to Parliament Hill and the experts would all say, no, no, there's not going to be any inflation.

结果果然，所有这些钱流入了经济，推高了我们购买的所有商品价格，人人都被更高的物价压得喘不过气。

And sure enough, all that money filtered into the economy, bid up all the goods we buy and everybody got smoked with higher prices.

但重点是，那些不靠研究这行吃饭、不读无尽报告和研究的普通人，反而能明白：如果大量资金涌入经济，却没有相应的商品和服务匹配，必然会导致所有东西价格上涨。

But the point is that it was the common people who don't study this stuff for a living, who don't read endless reports and studies who could just figure out that if there's money pouring into the economy, that's not matched by goods and services, it's gonna bid up the cost of everything.

这就是我的经历，我的理念是：普通人知道如何为自己做决定。

So that's my experience and my my ideology is the common guy knows how to make his own decisions.

我们需要赋予他们这样的能力。

We need to empower him to do that.

是的

Yeah.

别干涉人们的生活。

Just stay out of people's lives.

没错。

Exactly.

在美国有一种说法，称你们原本就要赢了，你们的政党即将获胜，但特朗普突然出现，说要将加拿大变成第51个州，结果所有人都炸锅了。

So there's a narrative in America, and the narrative is that you were about to win and your party was about to win, but then Trump came along and said he was gonna turn Canada into a fifty first state, and everybody went crazy.

这准确吗？

Is that accurate?

我不觉得他们疯了。

I wouldn't say they went crazy.

我的意思是，他们确实非常愤怒。

I mean, it like, it was a They got very upset.

但他们确实应该生气。

They should be upset though.

我的意思是

I mean

说什么才叫疯狂？

What's crazy thing to say?

这确实是个疯狂的说法。

It is a crazy thing to say.

加拿大不是待售品。

Canada's not for sale.

我们永远不会成为第51个州。

We're never gonna be the fifty first state.

我们尊重美国人作为邻居和朋友，但我们希望作为加拿大人保持独特性，保持主权。

You know, we love Americans as neighbors and friends, but we we wanna be uniquely and we want to be sovereign as Canadians.

这是我们的国家。

It's our country.

这是我们长大的地方。

It's where we grow up.

你作为一个美国人是个爱国者。

You're a patriot as an American.

我作为一个加拿大人是个爱国者。

I'm a patriot as a Canadian.

那是我祖父抵达的地方。

It's where my grandfather arrived.

那是我们共同的祖先穿上军装、远航去参战的地方。

It's where our collective ancestors put on military uniforms and sailed to fight wars.

那是我们的子孙后代将要生活的地方。

It's where our grandkids are gonna live.

我们为自己是加拿大人而感到无比自豪。

We're very proudly Canadian.

所以我们永远不会成为第51个州。

So we're never gonna be the fifty first state.

我只是希望你别再说这种话了，这样我们才能回到正题，讨论作为两个独立但真正友好的国家，我们能共同做些什么。

And I I just wish you'd knock that shit off so that we can get back to talking about the things that that we can do as two separate, but but two separate countries that are actually friends.

那在上面真的产生了那么大的影响吗？

Did that really have that much of an effect up there?

比如，人们真的认真对待他了吗？

Like, did people take him seriously?

我想一开始大家都觉得这是个笑话，因为我们一直有这种玩笑，你知道的，总说有一天我们要接管，底特律应该属于加拿大之类的。

I think at at first everyone thought it was a joke because we've always had these jokes like, you know, one day we're gonna take over and Detroit should be part of Canada and all that stuff.

但他一直说，一直说，结果很多人对此感到不满。

But then he kept saying it and saying it and, you know, it became an it became a lot of people got upset about it.

我觉得这完全可以理解。

And I think understandably so.

完全可以理解。

Understandably.

是的。

Yeah.

所以说，这话真是疯狂。

Mean So It's a crazy thing to say.

这确实是个疯狂的说法。

It is a crazy thing to say.

我跟它聊过。

I talked to it.

当时太搞笑了。

It was, like, so funny.

他一开始说是在开玩笑，但后来人们却说这是个好主意。

He's like, at first, I was joking, but then the people were like, it's a good idea.

就像，这

Like, that's

不是个好主意。

not a good idea.

不。

No.

他在这么说。

He's saying that.

我可以向他保证这一点。

I can assure him of that.

但关税也不是个好主意。

But and the tariffs aren't a good idea either.

我们应该取消关税，因为如果我们取消了这些关税，作为邻居和伙伴，我们可以做很多事情。

We should get the tariffs out because there's so much we could be doing together as neighbors and partners if we got rid of those tariffs.

我认为美国今天最大的问题之一是可负担性和安全性，而我们可以帮助解决这两个问题。

I think one of the biggest problems in America today, Affordability, security, and we can help with both.

我们降低了关税。

We knocked the tariffs down.

让我们来看看可负担性。

Let's look at affordability.

我们拥有全球第四大的石油储量。

We have the fourth biggest supply of oil anywhere on earth.

你们以很大的价格折扣购买我们的石油，因为我们的基础设施主要是南北走向，而且这种石油非常重，很特殊。

You guys pay a huge price discount for our oil because we're effectively all our infrastructure to ship it is North South and it's a very unique heavy oil.

因此，我们不得不暂时接受我们运送给你们的石油所获得的价格折扣，这不仅能创造更多就业机会和工资收入，还能降低能源价格。

So we accept unfortunately, and for now a price discount on the oil we send you, which can translate into more jobs and paychecks, but also lower energy prices.

现在美国很多地方的油价已经是每加仑5美元了。

You've got $5 a gallon right now in lots of places in America.

你们正在购买，而我希望增加产量，以便向美国多出口两百万桶加拿大石油。

You're buying, I want to produce more so we can sell 2,000,000 more barrels of Canadian oil into The U.

美。

S.

市场。

Market.

接下来是住房问题。

And then there's housing.

你们面临着巨大的住房压力，年轻人根本负担不起住所。

You've got huge housing pressures on young people that can't afford a place to live.

我们是向美国出口木材最多的国家，美国进口的木材绝大部分来自我们。

We're the biggest supplier of lumber for home building of any country that imports to The United States, exports to The United States.

我们拥有成本极低但质量很高的软木木材，可以出口；而美国过去四十五年来销量最好的卡车是福特系列。

We've got very low cost, but high quality softwood lumber we could be shipping or the best truck, the best selling truck in America for forty five years now is the Ford series.

它是铝合金的。

It's aluminum.

它采用军用级铝合金车身。

It's a military grade aluminum body.

你们这里生产的铝材根本不够。

You guys can't make enough aluminum here.

你们缺乏足够的铝土矿和电力来将其转化为铝材。

You don't have enough bauxite or electricity to convert it into aluminum and aluminum.

你们的铝材都是从我们这里进口的。

You get your aluminum from us.

关税并不能将生产带回美国。

A tariff does not bring the production to America.

它只会提高铝材的价格，从而推高F系列卡车的价格。

It raises the price of the aluminum and therefore the F series truck.

取消这个关税。

Get rid of that tariff.

你降低税收，就能降低阿巴拉契亚矿工或俄亥俄州电工购买F系列卡车的成本。

You lower taxes, you lower the cost of an F series truck for the miner in Appalachia or the electrician in Ohio.

而且，而且这还只是从可负担性角度来看。

And, and that's just on the affordability side.

我们还可以利用我们的矿产资源，让整个大陆变得更加安全。

There's a lot we can do with our minerals to make the continent a hell of a lot safer as well.

所以我认为，美国的利益在于达成一项免关税协议，像朋友一样自由贸易。

So I think it's in America's interest to come towards a tariff free deal and, and trade freely as friends.

这对双方都有好处。

And that will be good for both of us.

你和特朗普谈过这个问题吗？

Have you had conversations with Trump about this?

没有。

No.

我相信一次只能有一位总理。

I believe in the rule of one prime minister at a time.

所以我拼尽全力去赢。

So I fought like hell to win.

我没有赢。

I didn't win.

我们差一点就赢了。

We came very close.

所以我说过，听好了。

So I've I've said, listen.

我会让总理去负责谈判。

I'll leave it to the prime minister to do the negotiating.

我也说过，我会尽我所能支持他。

And I've said I'll support him any way I can.

即使我这次来这里，我也会给他发短信，告诉他情况，尽力支持他的工作，因为我们俩都希望加拿大能得到最好的结果。

Even in my visit down here, I'm sending him text messages to tell him what's going on, try and support his work because what we want we both want what's rep best for Canada.

你们现在的选举在哪里？

Where are your elections now?

你们下次选举是什么时候？

When do you have the next elections?

这个问题很难回答，因为

That's this is a a strangely hard question to answer because

我知道你

I know you

有一个

have a

奇怪的制度。

weird system.

是的。

Yeah.

相比起来很奇怪

It's Weird in comparison to

更像是金牛座。

Taurus rather.

你们的选举是固定的，你知道的。

Yours are fixed as you know.

我们的选举在技术上是固定日期，但政府随时可能倒台。

Ours, we have technically fixed election dates but they but the government can fall at any time.

这非常简单。

It's very simple.

有一条规定：如果反对党联合起来，能够投票推翻政府，也就是说，议会多数议员表示对政府失去信心，那么选举立即举行。

A rule is that if the opposition parties bind up and they can vote down the government, that is to say the majority of MPs in the house say we've lost confidence in the government, the election is now.

或者，如果总理决定举行选举，他可以宣布，选举立即举行。

Or if the prime minister decides he wants an election, he can call it and the election is now.

但他必须在接下来大约三年内的某个时间举行。

But he it has to be sometime in the next roughly three years.

哦，所以

Oh, so

你们有一个截止日期，

you have a deadline where

是的。

it Yeah.

必须这样，没错。

Has to take That's right.

所以，但明天就可能发生。

So But it could happen tomorrow.

不一定是明天，但比如，在未来几周内，如果出现不信任投票并且政府输了，那就会立即举行选举。

The it wouldn't necessarily be tomorrow, but like, you know, in the next few weeks, if there were a nonconfidence vote and they the government lost it, then then they then they go to an election.

所以这有点像英国的制度。

So it's kinda like the British system.

很有趣。

Interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

哦，这确实是英国的制度。

Oh, it is the British system, really.

我们几乎完全采纳了英国的制度。

We we we adopted the British system almost identically.

所以当你进行竞选时，这实际上是一场持久战。

So when you're campaigning, you're essentially this is like a long game.

是的。

Yeah.

你正在制定策略，规划你将如何让加拿大变得更好。

You're you're just laying out your strategy, laying out what you would do to make Canada a better place.

对。

Yeah.

我们有两个角色。

Well, we have two roles.

我说过我是反对党领袖，但我也算是候任总理。

So I I said I'm the leader of the opposition, but I'm also prime minister in waiting.

所以，加拿大人民不仅应该有一个政府，还应该有一个替代方案。

So the notion is that the Canadian people should not only have a government, but they should have an alternative.

而这个替代方案有两个职能，即官方反对党。

And that alternative has two functions, official opposition.

它实际上就叫这个名字。

It's actually called that.

我认为这是一个专有名词，应该是大写的‘官方反对党’，同时也是候任政府。

I think it's a proper noun, capital O official capital O opposition and also government in waiting.

因此，你必须监督政府，但同时也要以一种让民众觉得‘这个人或这个团队真的可以成为政府’的方式展示自己。

So you have to be prosecuting the government, but you have to present to yourself yourself to people in a way where they say, yeah, that guy or that team could actually be the government.

这就是我必须履行的双重角色。

Those are the dual roles that I have to carry out.

很有趣。

Interesting.

你试图成为总理多久了？

And how long have you been attempting to become prime minister for?

这种情况持续多久了？

How long has this been going on for?

差不多整整四年了，因为我在2022年2月启动了我的竞选。

Almost exactly four years because I launched my campaign in February 2022.

这一直是你心里一直有的想法吗？

Was this something that you had always had in the back of your mind?

或者

Or

我觉得这一直在我心里，但并不是我铁定要做的事。

I I I I'd say in the back of my mind, but it wasn't something I was set on.

我是说，我曾经想过，也许等我五十多岁或六十多岁的时候会尝试一下，但我并不着急。

Like, I I thought maybe, you know, when I'm in my fifties or sixties, I would try it, but I was in no rush to do that.

你现在多大了？

How old are you now?

我现在46岁。

I'm now 46.

那么，是什么促使你采取行动的呢？

And so what motivated you to do it?

你知道，疫情之后，

Well, you know, after COVID,

随着疫情的发展，问题不仅仅是防疫政策本身。

as COVID was unfolding, it wasn't just the COVID policies themselves.

还有经济政策。

It was the economic policies.

在我的议会生涯中，我一直非常关注经济问题，我看到政府的规模和开支，不仅在加拿大，而是在全球范围内都在急剧增长。

As I've been very focused on economics in my parliamentary career and I was seeing the size and cost of government, not just in Canada, but all around the world growing so much.

而通货膨胀正在摧毁工薪阶层，情况还会变得更糟。

And that inflation was just destroying the working class people and that it was going to get a lot worse.

因此，我以将加拿大打造成地球上最自由的国家为竞选纲领。

And so I ran on the platform of making Canada the freest country on earth.

加拿大曾经有着自由的传统。

We had a tradition of freedom in Canada.

我们最早的总理之一威尔弗雷德·劳里埃曾被问到：加拿大的民族身份是什么？

Our, one of our earliest prime ministers, Wilfred Laurier was asked, what's your, what's Canada's nationality?

他实际上无法列出某种族裔或宗教，因为即使在一百年前，我们就已经是多元混杂的了。

And he couldn't actually list an ethnicity or a religion because we were already mixed up even a hundred years ago.

他提到了苏格兰人、爱尔兰人和原住民，所以他说：最重要的是法语和英语群体以及原住民。

Had Scots and Irish and first So he said, look, most of all French and English and first nations.

因此他说，加拿大是自由的，而自由就是它的民族身份。

So he said, Canada is free and freedom is its nationality.

我希望重新确立这一理念。

And I wanted to reinstate that idea.

我希望加拿大成为地球上最自由的国家。

I wanted it to be the freest country anywhere on earth.

于是我以此为政纲参选，赢得了领导权，随后在上一次大选中参选并胜出，之后一直留任。

And so I ran on that platform and won the leadership and then ran in the last election and stayed on after that election.

这就是我过去四年旅程的大致情况。

So that's kind of the the last four years of my journey.

所以你们现在的选举方式，就是你基本上是在陈述自己的立场，四处走访，谈论你将实施哪些政策，以及如何把事情做得不同，然后静待结果如何发展？

And so the way your elections work now, so you you're essentially just stating your case and going in around and talking about what policies you would implement and how you would do things differently and just waiting to see how it all plays out?

我们的总理和总统是不同的。

It's we have see, our our our prime minister is different than than the president.

他实际上是立法机构的一部分。

He's actually part of the legislative branch.

所以他进入下议院后，我们每周要辩论好几次，他和我都要参与。

So he comes in to the House of Commons and we debate multiple times a week, he and I.

所以这和你们的制度不一样，在你们那里，共和党和民主党只在选举前举行四场辩论。

So it's not just, you know, in your system, the Republican and Democrat hold like four debates right before the election.

在我们的制度中，我们一直在辩论。

In our system, we're always debating.

所以他来的时候，站在一边。

So he comes in, he's on one side.

我来的时候，站在另一边。

I come in, I'm on the other side.

我会连续问他六个问题，然后他回答，我们来回互动，这叫做质询时间。

And I ask him like six consecutive questions and then he answers and we go back and forth and that's called question period.

我们还有各种委员会，讨论并提出关于财政、自然资源、医疗保健等各个领域的议案。

Then we have these committees where we prosecute and propose on finance, natural resources, healthcare, you name it.

因此，我们不断监督政府，同时提出更好的建议。

So we're constantly prosecuting the government, proposing better ideas at the same time.

前几天，我提议恢复加拿大和美国之间的汽车协定，实现边境双向免关税贸易。

So like the other day I proposed to bring back the auto pact between Canada and The US to have tariff free trade going both ways across the border.

这就是一个例子，说明即使我不在政府内部，也能提出切实可行的解决方案。

So that's an example of how I'm in a position to actually offer solutions even though I'm not in the government.

然后，希望政府真的会采纳我的想法。

And then hopefully government actually steals my ideas.

我一直在鼓励他们采纳我的想法。

And I've been encouraging them to steal my ideas.

顺便问一下，这咖啡是什么？

So what Is this coffee by the way?

是的。

Yes.

需要一些咖啡因。

Need some caffeine.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

一些咖啡因。

Some caffeine.

对。

Yeah.

我是个严重的咖啡因成瘾者。

I'm a terrible caffeine addict.

我也是。

Me too.

干杯。

Cheers.

干杯。

Cheers.

另外，感谢乔治·圣皮埃尔安排了这件事。

Oh, and shout out to George St Pierre for hooking this up.

是的。

Yes.

乔治是个好人。

George is a good man.

他是最棒的。

He's the best.

很棒的人。

Great guy.

他说他迟早会让我和他一起做些护具训练。

He he said he's gonna have me do some pad work with him at some point.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

那挺危险的。

So that's pretty dangerous.

哦，太棒了。

Oh, that's awesome.

他一直都在这里。

He's here all the time.

他是个很棒的

He's a fantastic

人。

guy.

是的。

Yeah.

他是最好的。

He's the best.

他是你可能遇到过的最出色的武术代表之一。

He's one of the best representatives of martial arts you you could ever hope to meet.

斯科特·谦逊。

Scott Humility.

我记得几年前他来议会山的时候，我以为他会很傲慢、盛气凌人，但他却非常平易近人。

I remember when he came to Parliament Hill years ago and I thought, jeez, he's gonna be because he's I thought he'd be cocky and swagger, but he was so down to earth.

哦，真是无比谦逊。

Oh, so So much humility.

以他在综合格斗中取得的成就，我向别人介绍他时，他们却根本不知道他是谁。

For what he's accomplished in MMA, I've I've introduced him to people and they have no idea who he is.

是的。

Yep.

然后我会说，他就是其中之一

And then I go, that is one of

地球上最伟大的格斗家之一。

the greatest fighters that ever walked the face of the earth.

当然。

Absolutely.

不

No

可能。

way.

他真的太友善了。

He's so nice.

而且这确实是加拿大的风格。

And I That's the Canadian way though.

比如，他们说话轻声细语，是的。

Like, it's soft spoken Yes.

温和而善良，但

And gentle and kind, but

但很坚强。

But tough.

别惹我们生气。

Don't don't piss us off.

是的。

Yeah.

但很坚强。

But tough.

是的。

Yeah.

他真的很强硬。

He's really tough.

糟透了。

Fucked up.

我好奇如果他没有顺从那个第五十一州的胡说八道，会发生什么。

I wonder what would have happened if he didn't go along with that fifty first state nonsense.

你知道的？

You know?

我的意思是，这个国家的主流说法就是，正如我所说，如果他没有那样做，你就会赢。

I mean, that that is the narrative in this country, like I said, that if he didn't do that, that you would have won.

嗯，谁也说不准，但我从不为泼出的牛奶而哭泣。

Well, you never know, but I I try not to cry over spilt milk.

我专注于我该做的事，活在当下。

I focus on what I have to do and live in the present.

但这个新来的家伙，穆洛特，你有关注过他吗？

But but this new guy, Moulotte, have you have you followed him?

迈克·穆洛特？

Mike Moulotte?

哦，当然。

Oh, sure.

认识迈克。

Know Mike.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

他将在温尼伯比赛。

He's gonna be fighting in Winnipeg.

我觉得他是下一个GSP。

I think he's the next GSP.

他非常出色。

He's very good.

你喜欢他吗？

You like him?

是的。

Yeah.

他非常优秀。

He's excellent.

是的。

Yeah.

他在蒙特利尔表现得很出色。

He did a great job in Montreal.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

如果你在那儿看过他，但也许我之前

If you saw him there, but maybe I've

我看过很多场他的比赛。

I've been to many of us who have called bunch of his fights.

他非常出色。

He's excellent.

是的。

Yeah.

他非常出色。

He's excellent.

是的。

Yeah.

他是我的朋友，他的教练兼团队成员是艾伦·哈马尔加米安，嗯。

He's my buddy is his trainer, crew crew Allen, Hamalgamian Mhmm.

在汉密尔顿。

In in Hamilton.

他是个来自汉密尔顿钢铁小镇的家伙，我们希望他在温尼伯能取得一场大胜。

He's a Hamilton steel steel town guy and and we're we're hoping that he has a big win in Winnipeg.

你们在蒙特利尔拥有世界上最好的健身房之一，TriStar。

So Well, you guys have one of the best gyms in the world, TriStar in Montreal.

是吗？

Is that right?

法拉萨哈比。

Farasahabi.

好的。

Okay.

在综合格斗领域，教练中真正称得上大师的可能只有寥寥数人，而法拉斯绝对是其中顶尖的。

The if there there's, like, maybe a handful of great masterminds in in MMA as far as coaches, and Faras is at the top of the list.

是吗？

Is that right?

那他的……

And what what's his He

他训练过GSP。

trained GSP.

他的主攻是空手道还是

Is his discipline karate or

踢拳还是泰拳？

kickboxing, Muay Thai?

我的意思是，他是个真正的综合格斗选手，柔术黑带，擅长踢拳。

He's I mean, he's a true mixed martial artist, black belt in jujitsu, kickboxing.

我的意思是，他什么都会。

I mean, he can do everything.

TriStar是一个许多美国人去那里集训的地方。

And he has an TriStar is a place where a lot of people from America go up there for their camps.

有意思。

Interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

我得去拜访一下那些人。

I have to drop in and see those guys.

哦，太棒了。

Oh, it's phenomenal.

我的意思是，正如我所说，GSP 在那里训练过。

I mean, like I said, GSP trained up there.

很多拳手都在那里训练。

A lot a lot of fighters trained up there.

他和美国的许多人也有很好的合作关系，所以他会下来，他们互相交换拳手，一起训练。

And he also had a great working relationship with a lot of people in America, so he would come down and, you know, they would exchange fighters back and forth and train with each other.

是的。

Yeah.

加拿大有着悠久的武术传统。

Well, we have a great martial arts tradition in Canada.

我不知道你是否认识迈克·迈尔斯。

I don't know if you know Mike Miles.

他在70年代或80年代把泰拳从泰国带到了卡尔加里，至今那里还有一家很棒的拳馆。

He brought Muay Thai from from Thailand to Calgary, like, back in '7 in the seventies or eighties, and he's still got a great gym there.

而且

And

你知道让·伊夫斯特里奥是谁吗？

Do you know who Jean Yvesterio is?

知道。

Yes.

他是我的朋友。

He's a buddy of mine.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

来自渥太华。

From Ottawa.

是的。

Yeah.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, no kidding.

是的。

Yeah.

是的，没错。

He yeah.

我小时候他是我的偶像。

I He was a hero of mine when I was a kid.

是的。

Yeah.

他太厉害了。

He's incredible.

我练踢拳的时候，他就是我的偶像。

I When I was kickboxing, kickboxing, he was like my idol.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。

Yeah.

他知道吗？

Does he know that?

我从来没跟他讲过话。

I never talked to him.

嗯，他马上就会看到我买了

Well, he's gonna see I bought

他的书。

his book.

是吗？

Yeah?

我买了他的书。

I bought his book.

因为他的书，我开始爬楼梯锻炼。

I started running stairs because of his book.

因为他提到爬楼梯能增强腿部肌肉和踢击力量。

Because he was talking about how it increased his leg muscles and his kicking power.

我记得这件事。

I remember that.

这出现在他的某部纪录片里之类的。

It was in one of his documentaries or something.

他说自己的踢击力量不够，所以就去爬楼梯。

He said his kicks weren't strong enough, so he would do stairs.

但我曾去过他的拳馆几次。

But I went and traded at his dojo a few times.

它在南渥太华。

It's in South Ottawa.

他太了不起了。

He was incredible.

他是他那个时代真正顶尖的踢拳手之一。

He was he was one of the truly elite kickboxers of his time.

他是个出色的拳击手。

He he he was a great boxer.

我知道他从未以拳击手身份参赛，但他的双手简直太棒了。

Like, I know he he he never competed as a boxer, but his his hands were fantastic.

而且

And

这正是他与许多人区分开来的地方。

Well, that's really what separated him from a lot of other people.

他的精准度和技术堪称完美。

It was like his accuracy and his technique was pristine.

他告诉我，他会花数小时研究，根据你的动作不同，四肢需要移动的距离。

He told me that he would spend hours studying the distances that your limbs would have to travel depending on how you moved.

他在学习和研究方面就像一位科学家。

He was kind of like a scientist in the way he learned and studied.

他追求简单，剔除一切不必要的东西。

And he was all about simplicity and removing anything unnecessary.

我觉得李小龙说过，他说简单就是砍掉那些不必要的部分。

I think Bruce Lee said that he said simplicity hack away at the unnecessary.

你怎么才能用最短的距离打出一击？

And how do you, what's the shortest distance to hit the strike?

他本人也非常好，心地很善良。

And he's got a great, he's a really good heart too.

你知道，他还有一个柔术俱乐部。

You know, he had, he has a jujitsu club as well.

我去那里时，有个盲人也在练柔术，因为柔术非常依赖感觉，盲人也可以练。

And when I went in there, there was a blind fellow who was into jujitsu, which you can do as a blind person because it's so much about feel.

但因为新冠疫情，他不能再练柔术了，因为不允许这种近距离接触。

But with COVID, he couldn't do jujitsu anymore because they disallowed that kind of close contact.

所以他实际上找到了一种方法，用注意力靶训练这位盲人，尽管他看不见。

So he actually found a way to train this guy with focus mitts, even though he was blind.

这真的太不可思议了。

It was really incredible.

哦，哇。

Oh wow.

是的。

Yeah.

但他投入了惊人的耐心，确保这位年轻人在新冠疫情期间仍能继续进行体育活动。

Was just but it it was incredible amount of patience he had invested in making sure this this young man could keep doing his physical activity throughout COVID.

等一下。

Wait a minute.

所以他们允许打靶训练，却不允许练柔术？

So they allowed pad work, but they didn't allow jujitsu?

我不确定这是政府的政策，还是只是健身房的规定，因为你知道，你当时完全沉浸其中。

I don't know if it was a government policy or if it was just a it was a policy at the gym because they're you know, you're just so wrapped up and

是的。

Yeah.

我们每个人都在出汗。

Sweating and all each of us.

美国的健身房里，大家都只是

The gyms in America, everybody just

继续坚持。

Just kept going.

继续坚持。

Kept going.

他们躲起来了。

They hid.

他们会用锡纸遮住窗户，或者从后门偷偷进来。

They would like put foil over the windows and like hide or come in through the back door.

洛杉矶的很多健身房都是这么做的。

A lot of the gyms in LA, that's what they did.

他们只是继续前进。

They just plowed ahead.

他们只是找到了一种不惹麻烦的方法。

They just figured out a way to not get in trouble.

对，没错。

And Right.

有些人确实被抓了并惹上了麻烦，但最终都没什么事，因为禁止人们一起锻炼本质上是违宪的。

And some people did get caught and get in trouble, and nothing ever came of it because it's pretty unconstitutional to tell people that they can't work out together.

政府根本没有权利告诉人们不能做他们想做的事。

Like, the government really didn't have the right to tell people that they couldn't do what they wanted to do.

这本来就是你有权做的事情。

That was a legal thing that you can do.

突然之间，就有了这样的规定。

Like, all of a sudden, there's this mandate.

出现了一项法律或规则，至少是在被推广，说你不被允许去健身房和别人一起锻炼。

There's this law or rule being passed down or at least it's being promoted that you're not allowed to go to a gym and work out with other people.

但那些才是最健康的人。

Like but those are the healthiest people.

这些人最不可能生病。

Those are the people that are least likely to get sick.

这么说真是太疯狂了。

Like, this this is crazy to say.

你知道，如果你生病了。

And you know if you're sick.

如果你在一个氛围良好的健身房，和一群靠谱的人一起锻炼，就说吧。

And if you just have a good gym with good people, say, hey.

如果你生病了，就别来了。

Don't show up if you're sick.

大家都会没问题的。

Everybody should be okay.

这些才是你最不需要担心的人。

These are the the people you should worry about the least.

我们需要重新恢复常识。

We need to have common sense again.

西方世界的太多政府已经变得过于专横。

And too many governments in the Western world have gone way too bossy.

他们只是在寻找每一个借口来控制人们。

They're just looking for every excuse to boss people around.

而我们必须再次对此进行抵制。

And that's what we have to push back again.

这包括电动车强制政策、对互联网的过度管控，以及政府成本的急剧上升，这实际上是在将私人自愿经济纳入强制性的政府经济。

And it's EV mandates or excessive control of the internet or the massive increase in the cost of government which is really like appropriating the private voluntary economy into the coercive government economy.

我们在欧洲、英国、美国部分地区，以及我们本国都看到了这种现象。

That's what we're seeing across Europe, The UK, parts of The United States, as well as back home.

因此，我们需要扭转这一趋势，让人们重新掌握自己生活的主导权。

So we need to we need to reverse that trend and get people back in charge of their lives.

但一直以来，主流叙事都认为，失去的权利再也无法恢复，或者恢复起来极其困难。

Well, the narrative has always been that rights lost are never regained or are very, very difficult to regain them.

那么，你如何逆转这一趋势呢？

So how could you reverse that?

你必须继续抗争。

Well, you have to keep fighting.

我的意思是，我们在疫情后确实重新夺回了权利，人们得看看这段历史。

I mean, we did regain our rights after COVID and, you know, the the people have to look look at the history of it.

是怎么做到的

How did

你们重新夺回了哪些权利？

for Which rights did you regain?

嗯，所有的强制令现在都取消了。

Well, the all the mandates are gone now.

当然。

Of course.

但那些本来就很荒谬。

But those were ridiculous anyway.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

它们真的很荒谬。

They were ridiculous.

但很多都重复了商业行为。

But a lot them repeated business.

它们毁掉了人们的日常生活和社会生活。

They they ruined people's lives, social lives.

但自由从来都需要争取。

But freedom has always had to be taken.

比如，我们的传统可以追溯到1215年的《大宪章》。

Like, you go our tradition goes back to to 12/15 with the Magna Carta, the great charter.

我们今天拥有的大部分自由都源于那份原始文件。

And most of the freedoms we have today were in that original document.

陪审团审判的权利、无指控不得逮捕、无补偿不得没收、无代表不得征税，这一切都源自同一份文件——《大宪章》。

Right to a jury trial, no arrest without charge, no confiscation without compensation, no taxation without representation, all comes from that one document, the Magna Carta.

当时，约翰王被贵族们拉到一旁，他们说：听着，伙计，这是你的选择。

And it was because King John was taken aside by the Barons and they said, listen pal, this is the choice.

要么签署这份文件并遵守它，要么我们就推翻你。

Either you sign this and follow it or we overthrow you.

结果，我们有了《大宪章》，而当你们在波士顿倾茶事件中说‘你们不能对我们茶叶征税，因为我们没选举你们’时，也是基于这个传统。

And as a result, we got the Magna Carta and all of when you guys had your Boston Tea Party and said you can't tax our tea cause we don't elect you.

那是一种以英国人身份提出的诉求，你们是英国人，你们说：‘我们是英国人。’

That was an appeal as English you were Englishmen saying I'm not we're Englishmen.

我们有权在未经投票同意的情况下不被征税，否则我们就把你们赶出去。

We have the right not to be taxed unless we vote for it and we're going to throw you out otherwise.

但这一切都源于1215年英格兰田野上那片泥泞的土地。

But that came out of the fields of runny meat in England in 12/15.

因此，通往自由的道路漫长而艰辛，而且永远没有终点。

So it's a long march towards freedom and it's never actually done.

没有永久的胜利或失败。

Like there's no permanent victories or defeats.

你只能继续前进。

You just have to keep going forward.

所以如果你当选了

So if you were elected

是的。

Yeah.

假设你现在就上任了。

Let's say you get in right now.

你第一件事会做什么？

What what's one of the first things you would do?

我会解封我们的资源。

I would unblock our resources.

我们的人均资源是世界上最多的，无人能及。

So we have the most resources of any country in the world per capita, bar none.

不过，我们需要让它实现，我们必须拥有世界上最快的审批流程和最低的资源生产税率。

We need to have to make it happen though, we need to have the fastest permits anywhere in the world and the lowest taxes on producing those resources.

我们在石油方面排名第四，在铀方面排名第一，在化肥用钾盐方面也是世界第一。

We're the fourth in oil, number or number one in uranium, number one in potash for fertilizer.

我们是全球第五大天然气供应国。

We have the fifth biggest supplier of natural gas.

我们拥有最长的海洋海岸线。

We have the longest oceanic coastline.

我们拥有北约定义的12种国防矿物中的10种。

We have 10 of 12 of NATO's defined defense minerals.

所以，你之前请了那个叫帕尔默·拉基的人做客。

So, you you had that guy Palmer Lucky on.

我认为如果没有加拿大的矿物，他根本没法生产他的东西。

I don't think he can make his stuff without Canadian minerals.

也许我错了，也许他会纠正我，但像夜视技术这样的东西，你需要用到锗。

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he'll correct me, but like night vision technology, you need to have germanium for that.

制造半导体和雷达需要镓。

You need to have gallium to make semiconductors and radar.

制造装甲车辆和飞机需要铝。

You need to have aluminum for armored vehicles and airplanes.

制造耐热合金和战斗机需要钴。

You need cobalt for heat resistant alloys and fighter jets.

制造穿甲弹需要钨。

You need tungsten for body, sorry, armor piercing ammunition.

我们什么都有。

We have it all.

我想做的是解除这些资源的限制，为我们自己和盟友大量生产，让我们的技术工人拿到20万美元的薪资，并建立庞大的战略储备，从而在国际关系中获得巨大优势。

What I want to do is unblock those resources, produce them in abundance for ourselves and our allies, make $200,000 paychecks for our trades workers, build up an enormous strategic stockpile of it so that we have tonnes of leverage in international relations.

如果不幸爆发全球冲突，我们将拥有赢得战争所需的一切资源。

If God forbid there is ever a global conflict, we would have all the resources necessary to win it.

所以我们必须废除大量阻碍生产的法规，并用快速审批的法律取而代之，以便能够迅速大规模生产这些物资。

So but we need to we need to pass we need to get rid of a lot of laws that are blocking and and replace them with laws that have fast permitting so that we can produce this stuff on scale very quickly.

所以，人们担心的是开采这些资源对环境的影响吗？

So is the concern the environmental impact of extracting these things?

这就是阻碍因素吗？

Is that what's holding That it

这表面上是理由。

is the, that's the ostensible reason.

但我认为，在西方世界，包括欧洲、英国、美国和加拿大的部分地区，官僚体系变得过于庞大了。

But I just think across Western, the Western world, Europe, UK, parts of The US and Canada, there's a problem with bureaucracy just growing way too damn big.

你知道，我们国家的原住民非常具有前瞻性。

Like, you know, the first nations in our country are incredibly forward looking.

斯阔米什部落在10英亩的土地上建了6000套住房。

The Squamish built 6,000 units of housing on 10 acres of land.

你可以在温哥华这样的城市里看到，由于那是他们的土地，想获得任何许可都难如登天，但他们还是做到了。

You can believe it in a town, in a city of Vancouver where it's very hard to get a permit to do anything because it was their land.

他们做到了。

They did it.

他们正在建造一个液化天然气液化厂，取代了旧的污染性工厂。

They're trying to build, they're building now an LNG liquefaction plant where they replaced an old dirty mills.

他们清理了场地，并在那里建起了液化天然气工厂。

They cleaned it up and put an LNG plant there.

但联邦政府花了很长时间，整整十四年才批准了他们的许可。

But the federal government took a lot of time, fourteen years to give them a permit.

所以我们需要像他们那样思考——具有企业家精神，注重商业效率，快速把事情办成。

So we need to think like they're thinking, which is entrepreneurial, speed of business, get it done quickly.

这才是发展的正确方式。

That's how you develop.

在我所在的选区有一个叫哈迪斯蒂的社区，只有600人。

Like we have this community in my district, it's called Hardisty, 600 people.

这个小镇管理着价值一千亿美元的石油资源。

They manage a $100,000,000,000 of oil in a town of 600 people.

为什么偏偏是在那里？

Why is it there?