#2473 - 比尔·汤普森

你知道，这正是建国者们在联邦制上的初衷。

You know, that was kind of the founders intent with federalism.

他们真的是联邦主义者，重视州权。

They're really federalist minded, state minded.

即使那是二百五十年前的事了，其中仍蕴含着深刻的智慧。

And even for that being two fifty years ago, there's a profound amount of profundity in that.

比如，让我们缓慢地改变，让社会实验得以进行，采纳这些实验中最好的部分，然后在前进的过程中将它们融入整体文化。

Like, let's change things slowly and let social experiments take place and adopt the best parts of those things and then integrate them to the culture overall as we move along.

但你知道，我们不能把婴儿和洗澡水一起倒掉。

But, you know, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为在这个国家，人们面临的主要问题之一，是对纪律的严重缺乏尊重，以及对纪律在人生中重要性的忽视。

I think in this country, one of the primary problems that people have is a profound lack of respect for discipline and how important discipline is for your life.

是的。

Yeah.

而自律与保守主义相关。

And discipline is associated with conservatism.

正因为如此，很多人认为我——其实我不觉得自己是什么特定的人。

And because of that, like, lot of people think that I'm I don't think I'm anything.

我在政治或意识形态上，其实拥有各种各样的特质。

I I think I I have politically or ideologically, I have a lot of everything in me.

我不觉得自己归属于某一方或另一方。

I don't think I identify with one side or another.

但有一件事我同意保守派的观点，那就是保守派更重视自律的重要性。

But if one thing that I agree with conservative people on, conservative people lend more towards the importance of discipline.

努力工作、自律、不抱怨、把事情做完、接受你所面对的现实，自己理清问题并开始行动。

Hard work, discipline, don't complain, get things done, deal with the hand that you've been dealt with, and just sort it out and get to work.

别哭。

Don't don't cry.

别指望别人来救你。

Don't look for other people to save you.

他们不会的。

They're not going to.

这在社会上并不被推崇。

And this is not something that's celebrated in society.

人们认为，如果你说你需要纪律，那就是在对那些遭遇不幸的人缺乏应有的尊重或同理心，但我觉得，在某些时候，过多的同理心对你未必是好事。

It's thought of as a cruelty that if you you say that you need discipline, that will you bet you bet you're not treating these people that are victims of circumstance with the proper respect or with the proper empathy, and I think a certain amount of empathy is probably not so good for you at a certain point in time.

总有一天，你会允许人们沉溺于自己的借口，为他们一事无成找各种理由。

There comes a point in time where you're letting people wallow in their bullshit and just make excuses for why they're not getting anything done.

从这个意义上说，我认为加利福尼亚的问题很大一部分就在这里。

And in that sense, I think California is that that is a giant part of what's wrong with California.

加利福尼亚在犯罪问题上哪里出了问题？

What's wrong with California when it comes to crime?

加利福尼亚的问题出在哪里？

What's wrong with California?

你知道，他们在应对犯罪、无家可归以及所有这些问题时，都不肯强硬起来。

You know, they're the way they address crime and the way they address homelessness and all these issues that they have, they don't put their foot down.

在某个时刻，你必须意识到，所谓的自杀式共情其实是上帝所警示的。

At a certain point in time, you gotta realize, like, what God's had called suicidal empathy.

一个社会可能会陷入自杀式共情。

A society can suffer from suicidal empathy.

在某个时刻，你必须制定规则，迫使人们整顿好自己的生活。

And at a certain point in time, you gotta enforce rules and you gotta make it so that people have to get their shit together.

是的。

Yeah.

这种自杀式共情成了施加者自我感觉良好的方式，嗯。

And that suicidal empathy becomes a way for the person who's imposing it on someone else to feel good about themselves Mhmm.

这使得情况更加复杂和阴险，因为他们通过利用他人的不幸来获得自我满足。

Which makes it even trickier and even more insidious because they're feeling good from weaponization of other people's lot in life.

问题是，你所制定的任何规则——尤其是作为立法者或智库人士——你永远不会亲身承受其后果。

And the thing about that is none of the rules that you're going to impose, especially as a legislator or as somebody in a think tank, you'll never feel the repercussions of them.

你永远不会每天直面这些后果。

You'll never have to actually deal with it day to day.

你只是在强加于他人，并说：我更理解现实的结构和世界的本质，而你别无选择，只能如此。

You're just imposing it on someone else and saying, I better understand the structure of reality and the fabric of the world and you can't help but be this way.

是这个系统害了你。

It's the system that's done this to you.

所以让我给你一点施舍，这钱是我从别人那里拿来的。

So let me give you pittance that I'm gonna take from someone else.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这让我显得仁慈。

And and that makes me benevolent.

我能因此感到良好。

I get to feel good about that.

这确实是政府的一个重要组成部分。

That's a giant part of government for sure.

这正是自由派政府问题的核心所在。

That's a giant part of what's the problem with, like, liberal governments.

自由派政府的薪酬应该根据他们在任期间城市财政状况是变好还是变差来决定。

Liberal governments should they should get paid based on whether or not the city does better or worse financially than when they were in office.

如果他们的政策促进了国内商品和服务的生产，GDP增长，各方面都改善了，那么你就应该获得更高的报酬。

If their policies lead to greater domestic production of goods and services and, you know, GDP does better and everything does better, then you should get paid more.

如果房地产销售增加，更多人赚到更多钱，中位数收入提高，无家可归者减少，你就应该获得更高的报酬。

If more real estate sales, more people are making more money, median median income raises, less homeless people, you should get paid more.

但如果无家可归者增多、犯罪率上升、破坏加剧、袭击和入室盗窃增多，你就应该获得更少的报酬。

And you should get paid less if homelessness goes up, if crime goes up, if there's more destruction, if there's more, you know, assaults and home invasions, you should get paid less.

对。

Right.

你干得一团糟。

You're you're doing a shitty job.

如果实行这种制度，我认为他们会制定法律，让城市更安全、更健康，对社会更有利。

And if you did that, I think they would impose laws that made it safer and healthier and made it for you know, better for society.

是的。

Yeah.

然后他们不可避免地会改变我们追踪和衡量这些指标的方式，从而给自己支付更多报酬。

And then they would just inevitably change the ways that we track and measure those things and pay themselves more.

他们不应该有这种机会。

Well, they shouldn't have the opportunity to do that.

那么你需要一种完全 cynical 的监督机制。

Then you need some sort of an oversight that's completely cynical.

不过你说得对。

You'd be right, though.

你有理由持怀疑态度，因为他们对所有事情都是这样做的。

You're right to be cynical because that's what they do about everything.

昨天有人向我解释，清理欺诈行为的一个问题是，欺诈行为占了GDP的很大比例。

Someone's explaining to me yesterday that one of the problems with cleaning up fraud is that fraud is responsible for a giant percentage of GDP.

如果这个国家有数千亿美元的欺诈行为，而你消除了它，实际上会降低GDP，因为你减少了流通中的货币总量。

And if you you have hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud in this country and you eliminated that, you actually lower GDP because you you actually lower the amount of money that's in circulation.

这很有趣。

That's interesting.

我以前从来没想过这一点。

I've never thought about that before.

他向我解释的时候，我简直惊呆了。

He was explaining to me, and I was like, oh my god.

我们GDP的很大一部分居然是欺诈，这太疯狂了。

That is crazy that a giant percentage of our GDP is fraud.

如果这些欺诈 somehow 被消除了，那就像是他们创造就业时所做的那样——会提升GDP。

And if that was somehow or another eliminated, it'd like one of the things that they do when they raise jobs, like, they increase GDP.

我们已经为市场增加了，你知道的，二十万个就业岗位。

We've we've added, you know, 200,000 jobs to the market.

那这些工作到底是什么？

Well, what are those jobs?

这些工作到底是什么？

Like, what are those jobs?

这些是政府岗位吗？

Are these government jobs?

因为政府占了我们GDP的很大一部分。

Because the government is a giant percentage of our GDP.

政府的工作。

Government jobs.

你知道，它比应该的规模大得多。

You know, it's it's way bigger than it should be.

大得多。

Way bigger.

这些工作中的很多都是胡扯和浪费。

And those jobs, a lot of them are bullshit and waste.

很多都是。

A lot of them.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

这正是在Doge期间被揭露出来的一部分内容。

And that was some of the stuff that was uncovered during Doge.

你知道吗？

You know?

Doge所能接触到的有限信息。

The limited amount of access that Doge had to it.

这只是冰山一角，你得以看到幕布被拉开，看到许多所谓的慈善组织其实只是洗钱工具的曝光。

Just just the beginning of it where you got to see the curtain pulled back and get to see exposure of so many of these fraudulent supposedly charitable organizations that were really just money laundering.

它们实际上只是把钱流入这些人的手中，就像加利福尼亚的无家可归者问题那样。

They're really just funneling money into these people's hands, like like the homeless thing in California.

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

这是一个疯狂的状况，他们已经花了240亿美元。

It's a bonkers situation where they've spent $24,000,000,000.

他们根本无法追踪这些钱的去向。

They cannot track it.

他们曾试图进行审计。

They've tried to audit it.

政府否决了这些审计，他们根本不知道这240亿美元去了哪里，但无家可归者人数却增加了。

The the government has vetoed these audits, and they have no idea where that $24,000,000,000 went, and yet homelessness went up.

是的。

Yeah.

但你面前有一个庞大的体系，这就是无家可归者体系，一个无家可归者工业复合体，是的。

But you've got a giant machine that is this homeless establishment, this homeless industrial complex Yes.

资金被源源不断地注入这个体系，而这实际上还推动了GDP增长，这简直荒谬。

That is being funneled money into that and that actually aids the GDP, which is kind of crazy.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，在我服役的最后三年里，我曾为一位上校和一位两星将军提供咨询，他们负责所有进攻性网络开发、伦理黑客和进攻性网络开发。

I mean, it it it was one of the things my last three years in the military, I was advising a colonel and a two star general, and they were in charge of all of the offensive cyber development, ethical hacking, offensive cyber development.

我是他们的技术顾问。

I was their technical advisor.

在那段时间，我逐渐了解到政府系统的内在激励机制，并不是为了实现其宣称的使命目标。

And one of the things I kind of learned about government at that point was these systems have their own incentive and the incentive is not the output of their purported mission.

真正的激励是组织的扩张和预算的执行。

The incentive is the growing of the organization and the execution of budget.

所以，当他们在位时，我从未见过哪位中级军官因为没有花完当年的预算而被训斥得更惨。

So while they're in there, you know, I've never seen a field grade officer get dressed down more than when he didn't spend all of the money that he was budgeted for for that year.

这难道不荒谬吗？

Isn't that crazy?

他会去五角大楼，然后被质问：‘你们怎么没花完那三亿美元的海外应急行动资金？’然后他们会训斥他整整一个小时。

He would go to the Pentagon, they'd and be like, well, you didn't execute $300,000,000 of OCO, of overseas contingent operations funds here, and they would dress him down for an hour.

人们不明白的是，如果你不把钱花完，明年的预算就会被削减，因为没人觉得需要这么多资金。

And what people don't understand is if you don't spend that money, your budget for the next year will be lower because there's no need to have a

更高的预算。

higher budget.

而不是以使命为导向，去评估你们是否达成了使命目标。

Instead of tying it to mission to say, did you achieve your mission objectives?

我们年初根据总统的框架——国家情报优先框架（NIPIF）——达成了要实现这些效果的共识。

We started the year agreeing from the president's framework, the NIPIF, the National Intelligence Priority Framework, we wanted to achieve these effects.

你希望听到的是：我们实现了目标，并且节省了25%的经费。

What you would want to hear is, we achieved them and we saved 25%.

但实际情况却是：我们实现了目标，但没花完所有预算，于是你被解雇了。

But instead it's we achieved them but we didn't execute all of this money, well you're fired.

我确实亲眼见过这种情况发生。

And I literally have seen that happen.

我真真切切地见过这种情况发生。

I've literally seen that happen.

什么？

What

一个病态的社会。

a sick society.

是的，这让我开始意识到，这些系统本身就有存在的动力和扩张的动机，因为那些对将军、上校们施压的人，自己也受益于这套层层下放的机制。

Yeah, and that kind of shifted my thinking in that these systems have their own incentive to exist and to grow because those guys that were holding that general officer, that O6s, that colonel's feet to the fire, they also have an incentive to because they were part of that trickle down.

而且他们周围还围着一大堆官僚体系。

And they've got bureaucracy that surrounds them.

如果他们没执行，那就是没执行。

And if they didn't execute it, that means they didn't execute it.

这意味着他们得去向任何人交代。

And that means they have to go to whomever.

这发生在拜登政府时期。

This was during the Biden administration.

尽管我们说了这么多，实际上已经把这方面的管理收紧了不少。

Believe, for everything we could say, actually tightened this up quite a bit.

他彻底改革了开发的方式，尤其是在进攻性网络方面。

And he's kind of rehauled the way development works, especially on the offensive cyber side.

但他们有官僚体系，而官僚体系的动机就是确保我们不断扩张。

But they have bureaucracies, and the incentive of the bureaucracy is to make sure that we grow.

就是这样。

And that's it.

然后你仔细想想，就会明白，为什么我们会有三万亿美元的债务，这已经不再是个问题了。

And then you think about that for a minute, and you're like, well, it's no longer a question why we have $30,000,000,000,000 of debt.

39。

39.

39万亿，再加上大约150万亿的未融资负债。

39,000,000,000,000 and then what like 150,000,000,000,000 of unfunded liability.

换句话说，我们已经承诺在未来三十年内向人们支付资金，而这笔债务我看不到任何摆脱的可能。

In other words, we've promised people money for the next thirty years and it's debt that I don't see how we'll ever escape that debt.

关键是，我不希望被贴上标签，因为我在政治上其实相当自由派，和你一样，我是个无家可归的人。

The thing about it is, and I don't want to be pigeonholed because I'm actually quite liberal when it comes to my politics are like yours in that I'm kind of a man without a home.

但它们在不同分析层面也会发生变化。

But they also change at different levels of analysis.

我对家人非常自由派，甚至像共产主义者一样。

I'm very liberal with my family and I'm very communist.

我保护他们，给他们一切所需，努力为他们提供结构。

I protect them, I give them everything they need, I'm trying to give them structure.

甚至在我的社区里，我会自掏腰包帮助别人，或者为他们做些事情，哪怕这会占用我的时间或影响其他事情，因为真的没有更好的解决方案。

And even in my community, I'll help someone out out of pocket or do something for them that's a strain on my time or might hurt something else because there are really no solutions.

只有权衡取舍。

There's just trade offs.

但这对社区来说是一种支持。

That's supportive for the community, though.

这才是人们该做的慈善方式。

That's how people are supposed to do charity.

而且我对别人如何生活也毫不评判。

And and I'm also very nonjudgmental in someone how they care.

我不关心他们在家里做什么。

I don't care what they do in their house.

我不在乎他们周末是不是开罗马式狂欢派对。

I don't care if it's a Roman orgy on the weekends.

只要周一到周五做个可预测、有生产力的人，周末去开你的罗马派对就行了。

Like, be a predictable, productive person Monday through Friday and go do your Roman orgy on the on the weekend.

我不在乎。

I don't care.

我不会评判你。

I won't judge you.

说实话，我自己的生活已经够乱的了。

Like, I don't I really have enough crap in my own life.

只要没人受到伤害。

As long as someone's not getting hurt.

是的，只要 consenting adults 没有受到伤害。

Yeah, long as no one's getting hurt, consenting adults.

我自己的问题已经够多了，我也犯过很多错，人们可以列出一大堆我这辈子犯过的错误。

I have enough problems and I screw up enough and there's a laundry list of things that people can say about me how I've screwed up in my life.

但随着我不断成长、地位越来越高，保守主义也逐渐增多。

But then as I graduate and get higher and higher, more conservatism takes place.

这源于我作为工程师的思维方式——看待生活时，明白它根本不是共和党或民主党、左派或右派、自由派或古典自由派那么简单。

And that's a result of just having an engineering mindset when I'm looking at life and understanding that it's just not Republican or Democrat or leftist or rightist or or liberal or or classically liberal.

这些标签都不适合我，因为在某种程度的分析下它们都会失效。

All of these monikers don't work for me because they break down at at some level of analysis.

对。

Right.

我认为这就是问题所在。

And I think that's the problem.

我认为问题在于人们所信奉的这些意识形态，它们要求你采纳一套预设的思维模式。

I think the problem is these ideologies that people subscribe to where you have a predetermined pattern of thinking that you're supposed to adopt.

是的。

Yes.

你被要求接受这些观点，但其中一些根本不符合实际情况。

You're supposed to adopt these opinions, and some of them just don't fit.

这就是为什么左派的人会被贴上标签。

And that's how people get pigeon that's like on people on the left.

他们被强行归类到一些难以真正合理化的事情上，比如跨性别女性参加体育比赛。

They get pigeonholed into weird stuff that you can't really really justify, like trans women in sports.

你到底在干什么？

Like, what the fuck are you doing?

而且，我们明明是在包容啊。

And, like, we're we're, you know, we're being inclusive.

不，你不是。

Like, no.

你根本不是。

You're not.

一边热爱乌克兰的边界，一边憎恨我们自己的边界。

Or loving the borders of Ukraine while hating our own border.

是的。

Yeah.

简直疯了。

Fucking bonkers.

是的。

Yeah.

有太多疯狂的事情了。

It's there's so many crazy things.

有太多荒谬的事情，人们却盲目接受，完全不合逻辑。

There's so many crazy things that people just adopt that don't make any sense.

当你认同某种意识形态时，问题在于，如果你把自己定义为某种人，比如‘我就是这样的人’。

And, you know, when you subscribe subscribe to to an an ideology, ideology, the problem is if, like, if you you define yourself as this person, I am this.

我是铁杆右翼， blah blah，不管是什么。

I am a hardcore right wing blah blah, whatever it is.

你立刻关闭了通往对方观点中所有富有成效且有趣内容的大门。

You you immediately close the door to all the very productive and interesting things that the other side thinks.

是的。

Yeah.

而且你还在把自己变成宣传工具。

And you're also making yourself into a tool of propaganda.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为如果我遇到一个人，他们直接说我是这样的右翼。

Because if I if someone if I meet someone and they just say I'm this Right.

这就意味着，我可以合理地预测你接下来会说的每一句话。

It's like, well, I could reasonably predict everything that's gonna come out of your mouth.

是的。

Yeah.

这并不有趣。

That's not entertaining.

我不想和这样的人交谈。

I don't wanna a conversation with that person.

对。

Right.

我无法从他们身上学到东西，因为我只要拿起《共产党宣言》或者《我的奋斗》，就能大致了解我面对的是什么样的人。

I can't seek to learn from them because I could just pick up the communist manifesto or Mein Kampf Right.

因此，对话也就没有意义了。

And have a pretty good understanding of who I'm dealing with, and therefore, conversation is not is not relevant.

这没必要。

It's not needed.

很多人也害怕被社会排斥，所以他们不敢偏离既定的叙事，无论他们该站在哪一边。

A lot of people are afraid of social ostracization too, so they're they're afraid of straying outside of the narrative, whatever side they're supposed to be on.

有些群体特别擅长让你觉得，只要你不完全同意那些甚至毫无道理的事情，你就是个废物。

And, you know, some groups are really good at making you feel like dog shit if you don't agree entirely with even things that don't even make any sense.

是的。

Yes.

所以人们才会顺从那些不合逻辑的主张，比如开放边境之类的。

So that's why people go along with stuff that's illogical like open borders or what whatever it is.

对。

Yeah.

他们顺从那些不符合自身利益的事情，是因为害怕。

They go along with things that's not in their best interest because they're scared.

他们害怕被孤立。

They're scared of being ostracized.

他们害怕被逐出王国。

They're scared of being cast out of the kingdom.

你知道，他们害怕被革除教籍。

There's you know, they're scared of being excommunicated.

是的。

Yeah.

我退休后刚开始接触很多人，最近直到上一次选举前，我更多地接触了这些人，当时，你懂的，我曾考虑过为政府做一些工作，你可能不信。

I dealt with a lot of people first when I retired from the military and then more recently leading up to the last election where, you know, I was entertaining the deal of doing some work for government, believe it or not.

因为随着我们聊得越多，你会了解到，我非常反对各种体制。

Because I'm as we talk more you'll figure out I'm pretty anti institutions.

我真的很反对这类东西。

I'm I'm really against those types of things.

但如果你三年前问我对特朗普选举以及所有那些事情的看法，我会非常兴奋，因为他说了许多我想有人去说的事情。

But I really felt if you would have asked me three years ago how I felt about the Trump election and all of that stuff, I was very excited because he was saying a lot of things that I wanted someone to say.

特朗普符合某种模式，而我认为人们在这一点上缺乏认知——我一生都建立在模式分析之上。

Trump fits a pattern and this is what people I think kind of lack when they my whole life is built around pattern analysis.

我真的很喜欢分析模式，挖掘并研究这些模式。

I really enjoy patterns and exhuming and looking into patterns.

这个模式是这样的——我说第一部分时你可能会笑，但稍后我会让它更合理，总之他符合这个模式。

And there's a pattern of like a you'll laugh when I say this first part of the pattern but then I'll make it make more sense later but he fits the pattern.

首先，他是一个杰克逊式的人物，他执政的方式很务实，这一点我很欣赏。

Well, first he's a Jacksonian and that he's a pragmatic person the way that he governs, which I liked.

至少我曾经欣赏，但最近他做的一些事情我不太喜欢。

Or at least I did and, you know, there's some things he's done recently that I don't enjoy.

但他也是一个局外人或救世主类型的人物，就像我记不清名字的那部老电影《豪勇七蛟龙》。

But he's also an outsider or savior type a la, you know, I don't remember the movie, but The Magnificent Seven back in the day.

我记不起那位演员的名字了。

Don't remember the actor's name.

有一群人，你知道的，一个西部小镇，一切都在崩溃。

There's this group of, you know, there's this Western town, everything's going to shit.

这七个人走了进来。

These seven guys walk in.

我觉得克里斯·帕拉特和丹泽尔·华盛顿或者其他演员翻拍过。

I think Chris Pratt remade it with Denzel Washington or someone else.

真的吗？

Oh, really?

我觉得是的。

I think so.

我记不清了。

I I can't remember.

但有一部老版的，我以前和我爷爷一起看过。

But there's an old one that I used to watch with my grandpa.

天啊。

God.

电影太多了。

There's too many movies.

是的。

Yeah.

有一种模式是，你不会邀请这些人参加晚宴。

And there's this pattern where you wouldn't invite these guys to a dinner party.

你也不希望他们在星期天去教堂。

You wouldn't want them in church on Sunday.

但当一个系统如此腐败和糟糕时，你不得不依赖这类人来介入并制衡这个系统。

But when a system is so corrupt and so horrible, you have to rely on these types of people to come in and be a check to the system.

但当系统重新整顿后，你又不希望他们继续留下来。

But then also you don't want them to stick around when the system is reset.

所以电影里有一个场景，他说：你知道吗，这七个人在聊天，他们说：这些人一定非常希望我们来，真是疯狂，他们一定很高兴我们在这里。

So there's a scene in the movie where he says you know man these seven guys are talking and they said man these people must have really wanted us like it's crazy they must be happy we're here.

我觉得是加里·库珀或者类似的人看着他说：等我们走了，他们会更高兴。

I think it's Gary Cooper or someone or one of these guys says, looks at him and says, They're gonna be even happier when we leave.

特朗普某种程度上符合这个叙事。

And Trump kind of fits that narrative.

X战警里的金刚狼是另一个符合这种叙事的人。

Wolverine from the X Men would be another one who fits this narrative.

他会不会去X战警的圣诞派对？

Like, is he gonna be at the X Men Christmas party?

不会。

No.

对吧？

Right?

他是不是在勾引斯科特·格雷的妻子，独眼龙？

Is he trying to hit on Scott Gray's wife, Cyclops?

我是漫画迷，抱歉。

I'm a comic nerd, so I'm sorry.

他是不是想勾引独眼龙的妻子？

Is he trying to hit on is he trying to sleep with Cyclops' wife?

是的。

Yes.

他是不是砍了一个人的头，扔到车上？

Did he chop a guy's head off and throw it at a car?

是的。

Yes.

但我们即将面对加拉克图斯，我们需要他。

But we're about to go face Galactus, and we're gonna need him.

所以我们必须忍受这一切，因为我们明白，当整个系统在每一层都腐败时，你需要一个置身系统之外的人来纠正这个系统。

And so we have to put up with all of this other stuff because we understand that when the system is corrupt at every level you need someone who's outside of the system to come in and set the system right.

这在西方也是一种模式。

It's a western pattern as well.

其他符合这种形象的人比如巴顿。

Other people who fit this would be like Patton.

对吧？

Right?

娶了自己的表妹，还扇了士兵耳光

Married his cousin, slapped soldiers who

他真的这么做了吗？

Did he really?

他娶了自己的表亲？

He married his cousin?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得是他的三表亲。

I think it's his third cousin.

到底是几代堂表亲？还是说表亲就算了？

How many cousins removed or his cousin become okay?

我不知道。

I don't know.

三表亲，

Third,

四表亲？

fourth?

有血缘关系的，你从来没见过他们？

There's blood Have you never met them?

我是冰岛人，所以我真的没法说什么。

I'm Icelandic, so I really can't say anything.

对吧？

Right?

冰岛真的有专门的应用程序。

They literally have apps in Iceland.

比如，我的祖父母和曾祖父母都来自冰岛。

Like, my grandparents and my great grandparents are all from Iceland.

他们定居在曼尼托巴省的吉姆利，那是冰岛人社区，冰岛确实有应用程序来确保你不会和表亲约会。

They settled in Manitoba, Gimli, Manitoba, which is this Icelandic community, They literally have apps in Iceland to make sure you're not dating your cousin.

因为那是个很小的社群。

Because it's such a small community.

不到一百万人全住在同一个岛上。

Less than a million people all on one island.

所以你们是在试图避免这种情况。

So you're trying to prevent that stuff.

但不管怎样，巴顿曾掌掴过患有肺结核的士兵。

But anyway, Patton slaps soldiers who had tuberculosis.

其中一人可能患有炮弹休克症。

One of them probably had shell shock.

这件事上了报纸，人们要求撤他的职，但幸运的是，将军们说：不，我们现在正需要他。

It got in the newspaper, they wanted his head and thankfully the generals were like, No, he's the guy that we need for the moment.

他带着象牙手枪，穿着不像个将军，说话也不像将军，不像艾森豪威尔那样装出一副将军的派头，但我们都清楚，在阿登战役中，他是我们唯一能依靠的人——连德国人都把他当作生前就已成传奇的人物。

He had the ivory pistols and he dressed like not like a general he didn't talk like a general he wasn't like a Eisenhower where he had the veneer of a general but we knew he was the only guy we could have at the Battle of the Bulge like the Germans talked about him like he was already a mythic legend in lifetime.

这种模式中，人们应该明白的是：这些反英雄的结局从来都不好。

The part of this pattern that people should understand or when they examine this pattern is it never ends well for these anti heroes.

最终他们总是被杀或被污名化。

They're always killed or defamed in the final analysis.

所以当《七侠荡寇志》里的角色们来到一个新镇，最终都会被杀。

So when magnificent seven come in, they'll go to another town and all get killed.

巴顿退役后，死于一场诡异的吉普车事故。

When Patton retired, he died in some weird Jeep accident.

金刚狼是这个荒凉世界里唯一剩下的人，而浩克正在统治这里，生活极其糟糕。

Wolverine, he's the only guy left on this desolate world where the Hulk's in charge and it's a horrible existence.

不管是帕特还是巴顿，彼得雷乌斯是另一个例子。

Pat or not Patton, Petraeus is another one.

我，你知道的，我曾经为彼得雷乌斯做过简报。

I I you know I briefed Petraeus.

我在伊拉克时，虽然不是直接为他工作，但为那些为他工作的人服务过。

I worked for not for him but for people who worked for him in Iraq.

他就是那个带领我们度过增兵时期的人，但和他交谈时，他真是个怪人。

And he was the guy that got us through with the surge but he was really a weird guy when you would talk to him.

你明明知道他懂一些你不懂的东西，他看到的景象是你看不到的。

Like, you knew that he knew something you didn't and that he was seeing things that you weren't.

但即使像我这样当时只是初级技术员的首席 warrant officer，他也会问一些仿佛他全懂的问题。

But even for myself, as being like a Chief Warrant Officer at that time, a low level technician, he would ask questions like he got it.

他从不表现得像其他将军那样。

He didn't act like other generals.

其他将军通常只会谈他们想说的三件事，然后就想赶紧离开。

Like other generals would have the three things they want to talk about then they'd want to get out of Dodge.

他会问一些真正有深意的问题，他是另一个外来者，被派来整顿2006年在伊拉克运作失灵的体系。

He would ask questions that really had implications and he's another one of these outsiders who came in to write a system that was not working vis a vis Iraq in 2006.

那他离开之后发生了什么？

And then what happens to him when he leaves?

他们让他接管了中央情报局。

They put him in charge of the CIA.

他们知道他一直和那个女人有染。

They knew he had been screwing around with this woman.

于是他们想：好吧，他完成任务了。

And they're like, Okay, he served his function.

现在该让他滚蛋了。

Now he needs to get out of Dodge.

而现在他却因为这些事受审，包括在未婚状态下与人发生关系。

And then now he's got tried for all of these things and sleeping with someone while he wasn't married.

而且你知道，这类人并没有一个庄重的结局。

And, you know, there's it's not a ceremonious end for these types.

我看到的是，那是

I saw and Is that

贝特鲁斯真的就是这样结束的吗？

really what happened to Betrayus?

他就这样收场了？

That's how he ended?

是的。

Yeah.

他当时和一个正在为他写书的女孩有染，或者类似的事情。

He was sleeping with some girl that was writing his book or something along those lines.

就这样？

That's it?

我不是说他结婚了。

I'm not saying that's married.

是的。

Yeah.

我不是说这就是他的结局。

I'm not saying that's the end of him.

对。

Right.

我只想说，历史会记住这种模式是以不利的方式结束的。

All I'm saying is that history will remember the pattern is ending unfavorably.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

当我审视特朗普时，我说，是的，我不喜欢他说的话。

And so when I examined Trump, I said, Yeah, I don't like what he says.

我不希望他在我女儿身边。

I wouldn't want him around my daughters.

我不希望他在晚宴上。

Wouldn't want him at a dinner party.

但他似乎在说这些话时，就像要重新塑造这个体系一样。

But he seems to be saying these things like he's going to reset this system.

你知道，就像查佩尔在你的节目或其他节目上说过，关于希拉里谈论税收漏洞之类的事情。

You know, think was Chappelle was on your show or another show or someone like that where he talked about Hillary saying something about the tax loopholes or whatever.

他直接回击她说，那些资助你竞选的人也在利用同样的漏洞。

And he just hit right back at her and said, Well, the people who are funding your campaign take advantage of those same loopholes.

如果这些漏洞存在，我当然会加以利用。

If they're there, I'm going to take advantage of them.

如果我不这么做，那我就不是务实的人了。

I wouldn't be a pragmatist if I didn't.

当他开始说这类话时，我觉得他似乎要颠覆这个体系。

When he started saying stuff like that, it seemed to me like he was going to upend this system.

这一点尚无定论，因为如今我自己也不确定该怎么想。

The jury's out on that because I don't know how I feel these days.

如果我们需要、想聊的话，我们可以深入谈谈这个。

We can get into that if you need to, if we want to.

但他是个局外人型的人物，我以为他真会彻底改变这个体系。

But he's an outsider personality and I thought he was gonna really reset the system.

确实有一些积极的变化正在发生。

And there are good things that are happening.

如果要给他打分，我可能会给个C+或B-。

If I were to grade him, I would probably give him a C plus or a B minus.

他当然比拜登执政时期的情况好得多。

He's certainly better than what was happening under Biden.

拜登掌权时我还在军队服役，那简直糟糕透顶。

I was still in the military when Biden was in charge and it was awful to say the least.

当时有哪些问题？

What were the problems?

天哪。

Oh my goodness.

将军们被要求阅读的书籍，以及作为顾问的我被要求阅读的书籍。

Books that general officers were being told to read and that I as an advisor were being told to read.

比如《白人愤怒》，理解为什么你作为一个白人男性，在现代军队中是个问题，因为整个体系建立在系统性种族主义之上。

Books like White Rage, like understanding why you're a problem, you as a white man are a problem in the modern day military because this whole thing's built on systemic racism.

你身上存在根深蒂固的隐性偏见，即使你想要摆脱或意识到它，也无法逃脱。

You have inbuilt implicit bias that you can't escape even if you wanted to or you recognized it.

这就是觉醒政治。

Is woke politics.

是的，这就是觉醒政治，你知道吗，我会坐在那里想，我认识的所有在战争中死去的朋友——不是全部，但80%的人，数据也证实了这一点——都是来自美国中部的白人男性，他们来自农场，或者，不是全部，但数据表明大约80%的人，都是来自中西部或其他类似地方的普通人，那里没什么发展机会。

Yeah, was woke politics and it was, you know, I would sit there and say, you know, all of the friends, all of the people that I know who've died during this war, not all of them, 80% of them, and the numbers bear this out when you look at them, They're all white guys from the middle of the country who were on their farms or, you know, not all of them, 80% of them, I think the numbers bear out about 80% of them, were these guys from the Midwest or these places where they didn't really have a lot going.

他们去参加一场我们本就不该打的战争，尤其是在伊拉克，为他们的信念献出了生命。

And they went off to fight a war that we probably shouldn't have been fighting in the first place, especially in Iraq, and they died for their cause.

现在你却说，这些构成战斗死亡多数的人，反而是问题的一部分，而其他人却从中受益。

Now you're saying that those people who make up the majority of the combat deaths are somehow part of this problem and that other people aren't benefiting from it.

对我来说，种族主义是令人厌恶的。

I don't believe race to me is disgusting.

即使谈论一个人的种族，无论在哪个立场，比如在选举那位最高法院大法官时——我一时想不起她的名字，因为我还有点紧张——她是黑人，他们一直在谈坦吉·布朗·杰克逊。

Even to talk about someone's race, even, you know, on both sides of the spectrum when they were, you know, electing that Supreme Court Justice, I can't remember her name right now off the top of my head just because I'm a little nervous still, she was black and they were talking Tangie Brown Jackson.

是的。

Yeah.

他们说这是历史性的一刻，因为她是个黑人，而拜登曾说过要任命一位黑人女性担任这个职位。

They were talking about how it's historic because she's black and Biden had said he's gonna hire a black woman to do this job.

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果我一生都在努力奋斗，却只因为我的性别和肤色才被提升到这个职位，我会立刻拒绝这份工作，因为我不想因此被人记住。

If I had worked my whole life to do something, but now I'm only being elevated to this next position because of my gender and the color of my skin, I would turn that job down so fast because that's not what I wanna be known for.

这些是我无法掌控的与生俱来的特征。

These are immutable characteristics that I'm not in control of.

我并没有选择自己生来就是白人或蓝眼睛。

I didn't choose to be born white or with blue eyes.

我也没有选择自己五岁时出生在偏远地区的拖车房里，而且没有父亲。

I didn't choose to be born in a trailer park in the middle of nowhere without a dad at five.

我并没有选择这些事情中的任何一件。

I didn't choose any of those things.

我不明白，从个人层面来看，这些事情如何让我受益。

I don't see how I benefit from these things at the individual level.

对我而言，个人层面的分析才是评估一个人优缺点的唯一方式。

And, you know, the individual level of analysis for me is really the only way to evaluate someone for their pluses and their minuses.

在我看来，任何超越这一点的做法本质上都是歧视。

And anything beyond that to me is discriminatory on its face.

当然。

Of course.

这是一种控制人们的好方法，因为你让彼此对立，让他们能牢牢掌控局面，让每个人都如履薄冰，觉得他们必须通过 victimizing 别人才能获得地位，还必须为自己的出身感到羞愧——而这些根本不是他们能控制的。

It's just a great way to control people because you pit people against each other that way and it's just an awesome way that they can stay in control and make everybody walk on eggshells and think that, you know, they've victimized people in order to get to their position and they have to be shameful of who they are that they had no control over.

它还给人提供了一个轻易评判他人的标准。

It also gives people an easy rubric to judge other people.

是的。

Yeah.

因为没什么是容易的，真的，这会让某些白人显得很糟糕。

Because nothing's easy, really, and it gives some, like, white guy bad.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

你知道的，黑人就是好的。

You know, black guy good.

中国人，只要他不是申请我想去的那所大学，就是好的。

Chinese guy, as long as he's not applying to the college I wanna get into, he's good.

对。

Right.

而且归根结底，它给了人们想要简单答案的倾向。

And and it gives peep people want easy answers, really, at the end of the day.

他们希望有人告诉自己一条简单的准则来应对生活，因为事实上，一切都不容易，需要像你之前说的那样，有纪律和思考。

They wanna be told the easy rubric to navigate life because, really, none of it's easy, and it requires discipline, like you said before, and thought.

所以军队里就是这种东西。

So it was that stuff in the military.

我记得在一次平等机会简报中听到过，你说的话是什么意思并不重要。

I remember getting told in an equal opportunity briefing we were getting, it doesn't matter what you meant when you said what you were saying.

重要的是对方听到你的话后有什么感受。

It only matters what the person felt when you said it.

他们在军事简报中也这么说吗？

They'd said that in a military briefing?

这是一次军事平等机会简报。

It was a military equal opportunity briefing.

而且他们举的例子是，如果一个女人走进来——我们当时在一家军事机构工作，那里有很多文职人员，我们正在开发这些进攻性网络能力。

So and and the example they gave was if a woman walks into the like, we worked with a lot of civilians at this at this military organization where we're developing these offensive cyber capabilities, a lot of civilians in there.

所以，比如说，今天女性X穿着一条裙子走进来，你心里想的是，我想给我妻子买一条类似的裙子，或者问问她在哪里买的。

And so if, you know, woman X walks in today and she's got a dress on and the thought in your head is, I'd like to get my wife that dress or something like it or find out where she bought it.

然后你只是说：‘这条裙子真好看。’

And you just say that's a nice dress.

不管怎样，这是TPS报告。

Anyway, here's the TPS reports.

如果她觉得你的话带有性暗示，或者不喜欢其中的含义，无论怎样，都会展开调查。

If she heard something sexual or didn't like the connotation or whatever, there's gonna be an investigation.

你会被调离那个办公室。

You're gonna be pulled out of that office.

这一切都会发生，不管你本意如何。

This is all gonna happen despite what you meant.

所以这个想法可能本来是好的。

So the idea probably was good.

我们想防止办公室内的性骚扰。

We wanted to prevent sexual harassment inside of the office.

被武器化了。

Weaponized.

但它被武器化了，执行方式只关注人们的感受，而不是在特定情境下合理人士的标准。

But it was weaponized and it was carried out in a way where it's only about how people feel and not what a reasonable person standard would be in a particular situation.

从我加入军队到那时，我们一直在打仗。

And from the time I joined the military until that time we'd been at war.

我整个军旅生涯都在打仗。

My entire time in the military we were at war.

我职业生涯中多次部署出去。

I deployed throughout my career.

我不敢说自己是个老兵。

And I wouldn't say that I was a war horse.

我不是那种长期服役的人。

I was not a long tabber.

我不是那种破门而入的酷哥。

I was not a cool guy kicking in doors.

我的工作就是戴着眼镜胶带的人，为别人指出门的位置，说：坏人就在里面。

It was my job as the guy with tape over his glasses to point out the door for someone else and say, Bad guy's in there.

所以在这一点上，我并不是特别厉害的角色。

So I was not a super badass in that regard.

我是个超级硬汉的粉丝。

I was a nerd for super badasses.

但我们所有人都会使用黑色幽默。

But we also all engaged in gallows humor.

那些笑话啊，之类的东西。

The jokes, and stuff.

即使有人刚去世，我们也会拿他开玩笑。

Even someone who had recently died, we'd make a joke about.

这是因为你承受着巨大的压力，而幽默在很大程度上是释放这种压力的阀门。

It's because you have this tremendous pressure and comedy is the relief valve for that in a lot of ways.

是的，当然。

Yeah, of course.

但有人可能会听到这个笑话，然后你就面临一场15.6调查——这是军方的调查，各种可能永久影响你人生、给你贴上耻辱标签的事情，让你再也无法就业或做任何事，因为你只是想缓解压力，或者只是想给妻子买下一件裙子，结果你的生活却被毁了。

But then someone would overhear that joke or something and now you're looking down the barrel of a 15.6 which is a military investigation and all of these things that could permanently impact your life in a way and give you a scarlet letter to where you could never be employed again or do anything ever again because you were simply trying to relieve some pressure or you were trying to find out where to buy your wife the next dress and now your life's being ruined.

我知道一些人曾深受这种打击。

And I know guys who suffered under that sword.

我不会点名，但我认识一些人，他们的职业生涯就因为一个愚蠢的笑话或类似的事情而彻底终结。

Like I wouldn't name them but I know guys who, you know, their career met at terminal end because of a dumb joke or something.

你不能指望一个人刚出去开枪打人，一小时后又对别人的感受如此敏感。

It's like you can't be expected to go out and shoot people in the face and then be sensitive to someone's feelings an hour later.

没错。

Right.

这根本行不通。

It's just, it does not work.

那你是不是该去跟那个家伙说，嘿。

Now should you talk to that guy and say, hey.

你知道，你让X女士感到不舒服。

You know, you made woman x feel so and so.

以后你跟她在一起时，要多注意这一点。

Be more cognizant of that whenever you're around her in the future.

但你也应该跟那位女士进行一次理性的对话。

Well, you should also have a rational discussion with the woman.

是的。

Yes.

他问了你什么？

And what did he ask you?

他说，你这件裙子是在哪儿买的？

He said, where did you get that dress?

很漂亮。

It's very lovely.

我想给我妻子也买一件。

I'd like to get one for my wife.

你为什么对这个感到不高兴？

Why were you upset at that?

我的意思是，这合理吗？

Like, what does this is this rational?

你要是这么敏感，怎么能在办公室工作呢？

Like, how you can't be in an office if you're that sensitive.

如果那个男人说，我想让你脱掉这件裙子，那是一回事。

Like, it's one thing if the guy said, I'd like to get you out of that dress.

嗯，目前我们是

Well, for now Now we're

你处在另一个世界了。

you're in a different world.

百分之百。

100%.

百分之百。

100%.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

但如果有人这么说，你看起来真棒，你是不是瘦了？

But if someone says, you look great, you know, have you lost weight?

你看起来太棒了。

You look fantastic.

这是一种赞美。

That's the that's a compliment.

是的。

Yes.

如果有人感到不舒服，我觉得自己被性物化了。

If someone gets upset, I felt sexually objectified.

我觉得受到了骚扰。

I felt harassed.

好吧。

Like, okay.

他只是说你看起来很棒。

He just said you look great.

是的。

Yeah.

就这样。

That's it.

健康。

Healthy.

不是说你看起来很棒。

It's not you look great.

我想让你脱光衣服。

I'd like to get you naked.

现在我们已经越过雷池了。

Now we've crossed the Rubicon.

对吧？

Right?

我们现在

Now we're

深入其中了。

into it.

当然。

For sure.

当然。

For sure.

但你只是看起来很棒，或者我喜欢你的裙子。

But just you look great or I like your dress.

这就像，如果你对一个男人这么说，嘿。

That's like, if you said that to a man, like, hey.

不错的西装。

Great suit.

是的。

Yeah.

然后他会说，哦，你得去投诉。

And he's like, oh, you need to file a complaint.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我需要提出投诉。

I need to file a complaint.

是的。

Yeah.

你剪头发了，乔。

You've trimmed up, Joe.

你看起来不错。

You're looking good.

比尔，你看起来太棒了。

Looking great, Bill.

天啊。

Like, oh my god.

我被骚扰了。

I am being harassed.

我得去投诉一下。

I need to, like, complain.

在拜登政府时期，这招是管用的。

That would have worked during the Biden administration.

太疯狂了。

Fucking crazy.

这招本来是管用的。

That would have worked.

这太离谱了。

That's so crazy.

还有他们在简报中做的另一件事，那段时间——在我军旅生涯的最后几年，我曾几次惹上麻烦，或者更准确地说，被训斥过。

And the other thing that they were doing in this briefing, which is where I kinda you know, the last couple years of my military career, I got in trouble a couple times, or I should say called down.

我当时是高级C，我是C W四。

I was a senior c I was a c w four.

我离最高级别只差一级。

I was one rank from the top.

我正在为二星将军和上校们提供关于非常重要事项的建议。

I was advising two star generals, colonels on very important matters.

我并不高阶。

I wasn't high.

我在主导层级中并不高，但作为顾问，我身边的人是高阶的。

I was at I wasn't high in the in the dominance hierarchy, but I was adjacent to people who were as an adviser.

特别是在这次简报中，他们陷入了这样的观点：白人太多是件坏事。

And the amount of in this briefing in particular, they had gotten into, you know, it's bad that there are so many white people.

我在这里强调重点，但我们更需要多样性。

This I'm doing high points here, but we need more diversity.

我参与了一个他们开始称为‘老白男网络’的正式职业计划，因为大多数人都符合这些条件：你需要掌握几种语言，拥有工程学位或相关的工程背景，必须有过部署经历，他们希望你语言流利，能顺利完成这些工程课程和其他要求。

I was part of a accepted career program that they were starting to call, like, the old white boys network because most of the people so the the requirements for the for this network were you had to speak a couple languages, you needed an engineering degree or some kind of demonstrated engineering background, you had to have deployed, they wanted you to speak the language very well, they wanted you to be able to go through these engineering courses, these other things.

而自然发生的情况是，你现在需要对工程感兴趣的人。

And what happens naturally is you now need people who are interested in engineering.

所以你可能会遇到一些思维比较受限的人。

So you've got somebody who's maybe more constrained in their thinking.

你需要能说多种语言的人。

You need somebody who speaks languages.

现在他们还需要会说法语、俄语之类的。

Well, now they also need to be kind of, you know, speak French, speak Russian, whatever it was.

所以他们必须曾经学习过或生活在某个地区，并且经历过这些。

So they had to have studied or lived in an area and done this.

他们还需要能够完成这些疯狂的战术和战略课程。

And they need to be able to go through these crazy tactical and strategic types of courses.

由于这些条件，你最终得到的会是男性，虽然也有不少女性，但白人男性还是占多数。

By virtue of those things, you're gonna get men and were lots of women, but then there'll be more white men.

这并不是因为人才池本身就是这样构成的。

And it's not because the pool presented itself that way.

现在你必须从这个人才池中筛选出来。

Now you have to extract from that pool.

所以在这次简报中，当他们谈论‘老白男网络’或如何改变现状时，我说：你们有没有意识到，大多数男性之间的共同点，比大多数女性之间的还多？

And so in this briefing, when they were talking about the old white boys network or how we need to change things, I said, Do you realize that most men have more in common than most women?

如果我说我需要某个房间里有更多的多样性，而你指的是思想多样性，那我是完全同意的。

Or if I say I need more diversity in a particular room, if you said diversity of thought, I'd be fine with that.

但乔和同一个项目、同一个办公室里的随机黑人男性，比那个白人女性有更多的共同点。

But Joe and random black guy in the same program, in the same office have far more in common than the white woman.

但你所说的意味着这些人必须拥有完全不同的肤色，所有这些都必须如此。

But what you're saying is these people need to have all separate different colors and different like all of this needs to be this way.

这会自然地呈现出来，因为军中的男性普遍性格固执。

It's gonna naturally present itself that way because men in the military generally are disagreeable.

喜欢工程的军中男性通常极其固执。

Men in the military who like engineering are generally hyper disagreeable.

而这两个人之间的唯一区别，只是他们皮肤的色素。

And the only difference between these two people is the pigment of their skin.

所以他们强加给我们的这种虚假的多样性指标，除了给某些军官的绩效评估添上一笔外，什么也达不到。

So this fake diversity quota that they're putting on top of us doesn't achieve anything other than giving some officer a bullet on their OER.

会后我被叫到了办公室。

And I got pulled into the office afterward.

我说的比这些还多，但本质上他们会说：‘长官，你不能在那些简报会上那样说，你当时那么激动，说的话也不合适，这行不通。’

I said way more than that, but essentially afterwards they're like, Hey Chief, you can't say that in those briefings, like the way that you were getting animated in there and what you're saying what you're doing like, yeah this is not gonna fly.

这大概是2018年或者2019年左右

And this was like 2018 or 2019 or

什么的。

something.

只是保持理性。

Just being rational.

是的，我只是想理性地指出，群体内部的差异比群体之间的差异更大，相似性以及事物的分布方式是这样的：你从志愿者和候选人池中招募。

Yeah just trying to be rational and say that there's more difference in groups than there is between groups and that the similarities and the way that things stack up, you recruit from a pool of volunteers and candidates.

如果我从一个80%是男性和白人的志愿者和候选人池中招募，我就必须预期选中的人会是男性和白人。

If I'm recruiting from a pool of volunteers and candidates who are 80% male and white, I have to expect that the selected individuals are gonna be a male and white.

参军的人中绝大多数，我无法控制这一点。

The majority of people who join the military, I don't control this.

我只是作为一名工程师，在看统计数据。

I'm just as an engineer, I'm looking at statistics.

另外，如果你

Also, if you

如果你想组建一个高效、有生产力的团队，就必须基于 meritocracy（ meritocracy ）。

want a highly functional productive group, it's gotta be based on meritocracy.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

当然。

For sure.

任何其他做法都实际上是对国家安全的威胁。

Anything other than that is literally a threat to national security.

是的。

Yeah.

你是在贬低战斗力。

You're you're you're denigrating lethality.

是的。

Yeah.

军队的作用是通过展现卓越的军事战斗力和技术来威慑战争。

The role of the army is to deter war through exuding superior military fighting and technology.

当威慑失败时，那就完了。

And when deterrence fails to win, that's it.

这就是我们对军队需要做的两件事。

Those are the two things that we need to do with our military.

它必须看起来像操场里那个你不敢招惹的人。

It needs to look like the guy in the playground who you would not muck about with.

如果你真去招惹他，他会把你打得不省人事。

And if you were to muck with him, he will beat you senseless.

就是这样。

That's it.

至于我们是否应该一直使用它，或者如何使用它，那是另一个问题。

Now whether or not we should be using that all the time or how we use it, that's a separate question.

但这个实体本身必须以这种方式行事，否则你就是在危及这个真正特殊的实验——至少在它初期，它是重视个人的。

But the entity itself needs to comport itself in this way, otherwise you are endangering this truly special experiment, which at least in its beginnings valued the individual.

它重视个人权利与各州权利。

It valued individual rights and states' rights.

还有开国元勋们——这也是我在那场简报会上提到的另一点——他们都清楚，没错，他们当中不少人都是奴隶主，但他们也明白，宪法、权利法案以及《独立宣言》最终会催生出一套制度，迫使我们必须将那些人（黑奴）当作真正的人来承认。

And the Founders, and this was another thing I said in that briefing, was the Founders knew, yes, they were all slaveholders, but they knew that the constitution and the bill of rights and the declaration of independence would eventually lead to a system where we had to acknowledge these people as people.

后来我们打了一场内战，上百万白人为了推进这场实验付出了生命。

And we fought a civil war where a million white dudes died to see this experiment through.

这套制度的框架从一开始就已经存在了。

The scaffolding was there.

你必须得结合当时的时代背景来看这些事，也就是那个时代的主流思潮。

You have to look at the things, the zeitgeist of the time.

如果当初他们直接就说‘不行，所有人都必须获得自由’，

If they had just said, No, everyone's gonna be free.

‘绝不允许存在奴隶制’，

There will be no slaves.

那美国宪法根本就不可能获得南方各州的批准通过。

You would have never gotten ratification through the Southern states.