#880 - Jon Jones

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我就是觉得特别糟糕。

I just felt terrible.

我真的觉得很难受。

I felt I felt really bad.

我当时主要就是担心那位女士的健康和安全，而且我真的很高兴她最后没事。

I was just I was mainly just concerned with this woman's health and safety, and and I'm really glad that she ended up being okay.

我真的觉得很难受。

I felt really bad.

我当时就想，天哪，就算在公众眼里，你也是伤害了一个孕妇。

I was just like, dude, even in the public side, it's like, you just hurt a pregnant woman.

这真的没有比这更糟的了。

Like, doesn't really get worse than that.

但是，是的，我当时真的完全不知道。

But but, yeah, I had no clue.

我根本不知道我撞的是个女人，你知道，我当时觉得特别难受。

I had no clue that it was even a woman that I hit, and, you know, I felt terrible.

那不只是你，你的家人和朋友有什么反应？

And what was the what was not just the what was the reaction from your family and friends?

你知道吗，出乎意料，他们反应还好。

You know, surprisingly, it was it was okay.

你懂吗？

You know?

他们特别支持我，特别爱我。

They they they support me so much, and they love me so much.

他们知道，你知道，我有一颗非常好的心。

And they know that, you know, that I have a really, I believe I have a good heart.

他们知道我心肠好。

They know that I have a good heart.

他们当时只是在想，

And they were just they were just thinking,

天哪，有没有人站出来说，嘿，哥们。

man, like Did anybody step in and say, hey, man.

你得振作起来。

You gotta get your shit together.

哦，有很多人跟我说过我得振作起来。

Oh, I've had I've had a lot of people tell me I need to get my shit together.

那是关于什么的？

And what was it about?

除了那件事，还有什么？

Like, what besides that?

你

What do you

什么意思？

mean?

除了这件事，还有哪些事情别人来找你，说，嘿，乔恩。

Like, besides this one instance, what other things have people come to you and said, hey, Jon.

你得振作起来。

You gotta get your shit together.

嗯，差不多所有方面吧。

Well, kinda all of it.

过去两年发生的所有事情，你知道的，让人觉得他们可以跟我说我需要振作起来。

Everything that's happened over the last, you know, two years or not makes people feel like they can tell me that I need to get my shit together.

我最近出去倒垃圾，收垃圾的人正好过来，我差点没把垃圾放到路边。

I I recently I recently went outside to my garbage my garbage man was coming up, and I was late getting one of the garbage out to the side of the road.

他等了我一下，还跟我说。

So he waited for me, and he even told me.

他一边倒垃圾一边说，嘿，哥们。

He was like he he was dumping my garbage, and he was like, hey, man.

我等着看你再打一场呢。

Like, I'm waiting to see you fight again.

他说，你真的得振作起来。

He's like, you really need to get it together.

我就想，天哪。

I'm like, man.

这两个人停在我家门口，基本上就是在告诉我，我得振作起来。

These two's parked outside of my my little man chin pretty much telling me to get my shit together.

好像每个人都觉得自己有资格跟我说，我得振作起来。

Like everybody feels like they have the right to tell me to get my shit together.

说到底，你知道，我坐在那儿，虚心接受，因为他们说得对。

And at the end of the day, you know, I I sit there and I humbly take it because They're right.

他们说得对。

They're right.

但与此同时，你知道这世上有多少人吗？

But at the same time, you know how many motherfuckers there are in this in the world.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

有太多人沉迷于各种疯狂的事情。

Like so many people are into all types of crazy shit.

但你不能拿自己和那些最差劲的人比。

But you can't compare yourself to the the losers of the losers.

我知道你在说什么。

I know what you're talking about.

你知道

You know

我是说，你可以说，嘿。

what I You could say, hey.

好吧，跟那些喜欢出去玩的家伙比

Well, compared to dudes who like to go out

谁知道呢

and Who knows

谁知道呢？

who knows?

我挺好的。

I'm fine.

没错。

Exactly.

谁知道这家伙在搞什么乱七八糟的事，还叫我把自己的生活整理好。

Who knows what weird shit this guy's at, and he's telling me to get my shit together.

就好像，我的生活虽然公开，但也不代表你比我好到哪里去。

It's like, just because my shit's publicly don't mean you're any better than I am.

这倒是真的。

That's true.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

这种冲突是没完没了的，你不能陷进去。

That that conflict is never ending, and you can't get involved in it.

比如，你现在脑子里开始的那种冲突，就是一种合理化冲突。

Like, that that conflict that you're starting up in your own brain right now, it's it's a rationalization conflict.

你开始为自己的行为找理由，然后想，反正很多人做得更差。

You You start rationalizing your behavior versus, well, a lot of other people do worse.

嗯，这个嘛

Well, a

对，很多。

lot Right.

那是一条死路。

That is a dead end.

为什么？

Why?

很多人为了让自己好受点，都会走上这条歪路。

It's a bad road that a lot of people go down to make themselves feel better.

唯一能让你真正好受的，就是保持纯净，或者

The only thing that can make you feel better is to be pure or

保持干净。

to be clean.

把自己的事情处理好。

Get your shit together.

对，是的。

Because Yeah.

比如，如果有人走过来对我说，嘿，哥们。

Like, if someone comes up to me and says, hey, man.

你一直在骗老太太的钱，还偷教堂的钱。

You've been ripping off old ladies and stealing money from the church.

我会说，

I'd like,

什么

what the

你在说什么鬼话？

fuck are you talking about?

这完全说不通。

It doesn't make any sense.

这根本不是真的。

It's not true at all.

所以如果有人对你说些无礼的话，但那些话不是真的，那对你没有任何影响。

So if someone says something to you that's rude, that's not true, it doesn't have any impact on you.

但如果有人对你说些无礼但真实的话，那你就得找理由了。

But when someone says something to you that's rude but true, then you have to rationalize.

然后你就会说，那你呢，老兄？

Then you have to go, well, what about you, man?

你自己的生活过得怎么样？

What's going on with your life?

也许你也在搞些见不得人的事。

Maybe you're into some dark shit.

你懂吗？

You know?

那是一条黑暗的路，也是一条防御性的路。

That's a dark that's a bad road, and it's a it's a defensive road.

作为拳手，这是一种本能。

And as a fighter, it's a natural instinct.

有人打你，你就想打回去。

Somebody hits you, you wanna hit them back.

有人攻击你，你当然会这样。

Somebody attacks you, you won't yeah.

但你的弱点呢？

But what about your weaknesses?

你会想去寻找它们。

And you wanna try to search them out.

我相信很多人在看社交媒体时都有过这种经历，看到推特上那些匿名的“鸡蛋”头像对你说些刻薄的话。

And I'm sure a lot of people go through that when they read social media and they see these anonymous eggs on Twitter saying mean shit to you.

你开始想，哦，我真想知道这混蛋是谁，他过得怎么样。

You start thinking, oh, I wanna know who this fucking guy is and what's going on in his fucking life.

那是个陷阱，兄弟。

That is a trap, man.

那是个陷阱。

That's a trap.

嗯，你知道，就像我说的，我会虚心接受。

Well, you know, like I said, I do respectfully take it.

比如，从来没有人对我说过，嘿。

Like, I've never had someone say, hey.

你知道，振作点，乔恩。

You know, get it together, Jon.

然后我坐在那里，心里想，哦，什么？

And then I sit there and be like, oh, what?

你知道吗？

You know?

我总是，我总是，你知道，你知道，非常感谢你的关心。

I always I always you know you know, thank you so much for caring.

非常感谢你，你知道，还在支持我，我真的很感激，而且我正在努力。

Thank you so much for, you know, rooting for me still, and I and I really appreciate it, and and I'm working at it.

而且我真的在个人生活上下了很大功夫。

And and I I seriously have been working on my personal life tremendously.

而且现在，我感觉棒极了。

And as of right now, I feel I feel amazing.

我今天感觉比当年打败所有人、全世界都赞助我的时候还要好。

I feel better now today than I did when I was beating everybody's ass and, you know, sponsored by the world.

而且，真的，我今天感觉更好，因为我觉得我战胜了个人生活中的很多心魔。

And and, like, I I literally feel better today because I I feel like I've conquered a lot of demons in my personal life.

所以你感觉更好，是说内心更平静了吗？

So you feel better, meaning you feel more at peace?

你感觉更平静了？

You feel more calm?

更平静了。

More at peace.

你知道，就是不再总是担心社交媒体上的事。

You know, like, not worried about social media all the time.

这给我带来了很多平静。

Like, that that has brought a lot of peace to me.

不担心别人怎么说。

Not worried about what people are saying.

甚至不担心UFC里发生了什么，比如谁拿了腰带之类的，就只是做乔纳森·琼斯，有一群真心爱我的全国各地的朋友，每天专注于我的孩子们，送女儿去练啦啦操，接她们放学，送她们上学。

Not even worrying about what's going on in the UFC, like, who has the belt or or or, you know, just just just being Jonathan Jones and having my my group of friends across the country who, genuinely love me, focusing in on my kids every day, you know, taking my girls to cheerleading practice, picking them up from school, dropping them off at school.

就是些基本的事情，比如我和我未婚妻。

Basic stuff, like, me and me and my fiance.

你懂吗？

You know?

就是过日子。

Being Just living life.

把一切打理得井井有条。

Being on top of stuff.

把一切打理得井井有条。

Being on top of stuff.

你知道，我没有任何债务。

You know, I got I mean, no debts.

你知道吗？

You know?

所有事情都处理好了。

Everything's caught up.

一切都非常到位。

Everything's everything's spot on.

你知道吗？

You know?

我想在家里修的那些东西，你知道吗，那个油漆剥落的地方现在已经补好了。

Things I wanted to get fixed around the house, you know, that paint chip is painted now.

你知道吗？

You know?

现在除了体育之外，我生活中的一切都井井有条。

Every everything is just everything's going to everything is so put together right now in my life outside of sports.

而且，显然，头脑清晰，这是我很久没有过的状态了。

And and, obviously, having having the clear mind, something that I I haven't had in a long time.

你知道吗，我现在就是感觉特别好。

You know, I just feel I just feel really good right now.

所以，而且我现在也不需要再打比赛了。

So as far as and then and then also being in a position where I don't really need to fight again either.

你明白我的意思吗？

Know what I mean?

你是说经济上吗？

Financially, you mean?

经济上。

Financially.

但你心里难道不想吗？

But don't you, though, don't you, though, in your mind?

哦，想啊。

Oh, yeah.

我必须打，因为故事不能就这样结束。

I I have to fight because I have to fight because the story can't end like this.

嗯，财务上的事情确实很美好，一切都很好。

Well, it's like the financial thing is beautiful and everything like that.

你已经衣食无忧了，可以好好享受生活，孩子们和妻子也都有保障，这真的很棒。

It's wonderful that you're set for life and you could just kick back and your children will be taken care of and your wife will be taken care of.

这一切都很美好。

That's all beautiful.

但你有责任去成就伟大。

But you have a responsibility of greatness.

很少有人能达到你这样的位置，不只是你赢得冠军的时候，你是UFC历史上最年轻的重量级或轻重量级冠军。

There's there's very few people that ever get to the position that you not just were in when you won the title when you were the youngest ever UFC heavyweight or Light Heavyweight Champion.

还不止这些。

Not just that.

你是UFC历史上最年轻的冠军。

The youngest ever UFC champion.

还不止这些。

Not not just that.

潜力本身也伴随着责任。

There's there's also responsibility that comes with potential.

这不仅仅关乎你已经做到的，也关乎你本可以做到的。

It's not it's not just with what you've done, and, you know, it's what you could have done.

你和亚历山大·古斯塔夫森打过。

You you fought Alexander Gustafson.

老实说，那场比赛你训练了多少？

Be honest about that.

你为那场比赛训练了多少？

How much did you train for that fight?

我训练了。

I trained.

我为比赛训练了，但确实，我有种自己不可战胜的感觉，赛前做了很多疯狂的事。

I trained for the fight, but but I I definitely I I had this thing where I just felt invincible, and I did a lot of wild stuff leading up to the fight.

我确实没有全力以赴。

I definitely didn't give it my all.

说到派对和不好好睡觉。

As far as partying and not sleeping right.

真的是派对。

Really partying.

是的。

Yes.

喝酒。

Drinking.

整夜不睡。

Staying up all night.

我的意思是，当你以不是百分之百的状态赢下那样的比赛，这是不是几乎让你觉得，你想做什么就做什么，然后，天哪，想象一下如果我训练了。

I mean, when you win a fight like that where you weren't a 100%, does that sort of almost reinforce this idea that you could do anything you want and then, man, imagine if I trained.

下次

Next time

如果是大人物，我会训练的。

if it's someone big, I'll train.

对，没错。

Like Yeah.

我有个事想跟你分享，我不确定以前有没有跟别人说过，但我有个疯狂的习惯，就是每次比赛前一周都会去狂欢，整个职业生涯都是这样。

So I have this I'm gonna share something with I'm not sure if I've ever shared this with anyone else before, but I had this crazy thing that I would do where I would party one week before every fight, and I did it throughout my whole career.

这确实很蠢，但这是我心理上的一种依赖。

And and this was stupid, but it was this mental crutch that I had.

我真的是每次比赛前一周，都会出去喝得烂醉如泥。

I literally would one week before every fight, I would go out and I would get blacked out wasted.

我的逻辑是，如果这家伙万一赢了我，我可以对着镜子说，我输是因为比赛前一周喝大了。

And my logic was if this guy were to beat me somehow, I I can look myself in the mirror and say that, well, I lost because I got hammered the week before the fight.

所以，这是给自己留的退路？

So So it's a built in safety net?

就是个退路。

It was a safety net.

没错。

Exactly.

所以我整个职业生涯都是这么做的。

So I did it my whole career.

每次比赛前一周，我都会出去喝个烂醉。

I I would go out and get hammered one week before every fight.

你有没有跟运动心理学家合作过？

Have you ever worked with a sports psychologist?

没有。

No.

但现在，我现在的圣普鲁特比赛是我第一次没有这么做。

But now but now I don't my my open Saint Pruitt fight was the first fight that I did not do that.

那是我表现最差的一次。

It was my worst performance.

所以你看。

So I see.

我不觉得那是你表现最差的一次。

I don't think it was your worst performance.

我觉得那场比赛你被批评得很不公平，因为我觉得欧文·圣普鲁是个非常难缠的对手。

I think you were very unjustly criticized for that fight because I think Oven Saint Proux is a very tough guy.

他是个很难对付的选手。

He's a very difficult fighter.

他非常强壮。

He's very strong.

他的左腿踢非常凶狠。

He's got a brutal left kick.

他很有运动天赋。

He's athletic.

他移动得很好。

He moves well.

我觉得那是一场不错的比赛，但那仍然是我表现最差的一次。

I believe it was a good performance, but it was still my worst performance.

你看，我觉得欧文·圣普鲁是个非常难缠的对手，那场比赛很艰难，而且你很久没比赛了。

See, I think Oven Saint Proust is a really tough guy, and it was a tough fight, and you hadn't fought in a long time.

你知道吗，你休息了多久？

You know, you were off for how long?

几个月？

How many months?

十六个月左右？

Sixteen months or something?

超过一年了。

It was it was over a year.

挺长的一段时间。

It was a long time.

超过一年？

Over a year?

我当时有很多事情要处理。

I had a lot of stuff going.

然后你面对的是一个相当活跃的对手，他打过一些强手，还大胜了将军，很多比赛都表现得很出色，是个冉冉升起的新星。

And then you you're fighting a guy who'd been pretty active and fought some good guys, had a great victory over Shogun and looked real good in a lot of his fights and was an up and comer.

奥文斯最让我头疼的一点是，他其实是个老手。

Main thing about Ovens that really bothered me was he was he was the most, well, he was seasoned.

他实际上打比赛的时间比我还长。

He actually has been fighting longer than I have.

很多人没意识到这一点。

A lot of people don't realize that.

但他技术上还是那么青涩、不成熟。

But he was just so green and raw still.

就像

Like

技术上。

Skill wise.

技术上。

Skill wise.

我会深入研究每个对手，然后总结出他们的套路。

Like, I I don't, I study everybody extensively, and then I come up with their patterns.

我能看出他们怎么躲闪。

I figure out the way they flinch.

我能看出他们最喜欢的第一拳、第二拳、第三拳，最喜欢的组合拳，他们摔倒前的准备动作，他们什么时候会缠抱，头会偏向哪边。

I figure out their first favorite punch, their second favorite punch, their third, their favorite combinations, their their setups to their takedowns, when they clinch, what side of their heads gonna be.

所有细节都一清二楚。

Literally everything.

我对每个对手都了如指掌。

I I know everything about every opponent.

他们会从哪边进攻，是头朝里还是头朝外，我该怎么应对，你明白吧。

What side they're gonna shoot, whether it's gonna be a head inside, head outside, what am I gonna do about that, you know.

我会分析一切，他们为什么进攻，喜欢在笼子的哪个区域进攻，所有细节。

I figure out everything, why they shoot, where what area of the cage they like to shoot, everything.

至于圣普鲁，他完全不知道自己下一步要干什么。

And with over Saint Prue, he he he he doesn't know what he's gonna do.

他太不按常理出牌了。

He's he's so Unorthodox.

不按套路出牌。

Unorthodox.

你知道吗，他经常从一些奇怪的角度打出出其不意的击倒，他就是乱挥。

You know, he gets these random knockouts from these weird angles, and he's just wing stuffing.

他几乎闭着眼睛，然后下一秒，就把人打倒了。

He almost closes his eyes, and next thing you know, he's knocked somebody out.

你懂吗？

You know?

所以他的可怕之处就在于，他太难以预测了。

So the scary thing about him was, he's so unpredictable.

而且我当时压力很大。

And so and I had a lot on the line.

所以我就说，你知道吗？

So I just said, you know what?

这家伙，整场比赛基本上都缩在壳里。

This guy is, he's in a shell pretty much the whole fight.

他整场比赛都在防守，我当时就想，我就这么打完比赛，不冒任何风险，但我觉得我让自己失望了，因为通常我会直接把他干掉。

He was defensive the whole fight, and, and I just thought I I close through the fight, and not really risk anything, which I felt like I let myself down because, normally, I would just I mean, normally, when you get someone like that, you just, you know, take them out.

你知道吗？

You know?

我应该能直接把他干掉，但我满足于赢了。

You should I should have just been able to take them out, but I was content with winning.

我觉得那是我第一次真正只想赢下比赛，拿钱走人，回到我真正的目标，也就是DC，而不是像平时那样想终结对手。

And I think that was I think that was one of the first fights where I actually just wanted to get the win, get my money, go back to, what I my actual goal, which was DC instead of wanting to finish this guy like normal.

所以我不得不认真反思自己，为什么我会那样，为什么我满足于混日子。

So I had to really question my I really questioned myself on why why I was like that, why I was content with coasting.

那场比赛是你之前压力最大的一场，因为大家都想看你如何应对八角笼外的逆境。

Well, that was a fight where you that had the most pressure on you than any fight you've had before as far as, like, people wanting to see how you respond to the adversity outside of the octagon.

我同意。

I agree.

我同意。

I agree.

我压力很大，但我觉得我很好地应对了逆境。

I I had a lot of pressure, and I feel like I responded great to my adversity.

你知道，我做了所有必须做的事，才重新回到那个舞台。

You know, I I I did all the things I had to do to get back to get back to, the stage.

我完成了所有缓刑的义务，而且我一直保持健康。

You know, I handled all my probation obligations, and and and I I stayed healthy.

我开始练力量举，还请了营养师。

I started powerlifting, and I hired a nutritionist.

我看起来比以往任何时候都好。

I I looked better than ever.

身体上，我感觉也比以往任何时候都好。

I felt better than ever physically.

我做了所有该做的事。

I did everything I had to do.

我像个男人一样，为自己的行为负责。

I manned up and and and was responsible for my actions.

是格雷格·杰克逊觉得举重可能会影响你的表现吗？

Was it Greg Jackson that thought that the powerlifting might have a a bit of an effect on on your performance?

他觉得你练得太多了？

He thought that you were doing too much of that?

嗯，我确实练得太多了。

Well, I was doing too much of it.

所以，我真的开始练举重，然后停了七个月的武术训练。

So, I literally I started powerlifting, and I took off seven months of martial arts training.

我七个月没去杰克逊的拳馆。

I didn't show up to Jackson's for seven months.

我每周去四次一个叫ZS力量系统的举重馆。

And I I showed up to this place called ZS Strength Systems, a powerlifting gym, four days a week.

就是练肌肉。

Just getting jacked.

练肌肉。

Getting jacked.

我变得痴迷于举重，而且我完全没做任何武术训练。

I became I became obsessed with lifting heavyweight, and I literally did no martial arts training.

然后大约在比赛前四个月，我开始稍微多来训练馆一些。

And then about four months out from the fight, I started to come into the room a little bit more.

实际上直到比赛前三个月，我才真正开始训练营。

And then only three months before the fight did I actually start a training camp.

那你为什么要那样做呢？比如心肺功能那些方面。

Now why why did you do that as far as, like, cardio and things like that?

你难道不觉得光靠举重，你的心肺功能会大幅下降吗？

Wouldn't you think that your cardio would dramatically suffer from just lifting weights?

嗯，我做了很多。

Well, I I did a lot.

我有很多体重要减，因为我变壮了，而且我确实做了很多有氧训练，但我也有这些新教练，新的体能教练，他们专攻力量举。

I had a lot of weight to lose because I had gotten big, and I, I actually did a lot of, a lot of cardio training, but I was also I had these new coaches, new strength and conditioning coaches who specialized in power lifting.

所以我几乎必须，我们得一起制定一个计划，关于如何开始不再举重，而是做所有有氧训练。

So I had to almost we had to come up with a plan together of how we were going to start not weightlifting and doing all cardio.

而且一开始的时候，我们就说，好吧。

And even at the beginning stages, it was like, okay.

那就多举轻一点的重量吧。

Well, let's just lift lighter weights more.

我说，不行。

And I was like, no.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

我需要做有氧运动。

I need, like, cardio.

有氧运动。

Cardio.

所以这真的是我们俩一起学习的一个大过程。

And so it was just a big learning thing that we had to do together.

那这些人，他们有没有练过武术？

So these guys, were they were they involved in martial arts at all?

你说的是我的力量举教练吗？

These my power lifting coaches?

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

他们没练过。

They weren't.

那他们还在给你关于武术训练的建议？

So but they and they were giving you advice about martial arts training?

所以他们算是边干边学？

So they're, like, sort of learning on the job?

算是边干边学吧，但他们并没有给我武术训练方面的建议。

Kind of learning on the job, but they weren't giving me advice about martial arts training.

他们只是需要一个学习的过程。

They they it was just a learning curve.

我觉得他们以前从来没有接触过像我这样的耐力运动员。

I don't think they had ever worked with an endurance athlete the way that I am.

所以呢，

And so

他们主要接触的是橄榄球运动员或者力量举选手吗？

Mostly, work with football players or power lifters?

他们确实带过费城老鹰队的球员，还有很多力量举选手。

They work with a Philadelphia Eagle and and a lot of power lifters.

不过说实话，这些人真的很谦虚，他们愿意听我说，而且很快调整了我们的训练计划，让它更侧重于耐力，而不是保持肌肉或力量之类的。

But these guys, to their credit, they were really humble, and they they listened, and they were able to and they quickly adjusted what we were doing every day to make it more about, endurance and not about maintaining muscle or strength and things like that.

我觉得跟他们训练，我的状态真的变得非常好。

And and I I felt like I got in really good shape with these guys.

所以现在我们还在合作，因为我一直跟着他们练。

So and now we're at a place, because I'm still working with these same guys.

现在我们到了一个阶段，我们意识到耐力的重要性，而且我们会提前很多开始准备。

Now now we're at a place where, we realize the importance of endurance, and we're gonna start way farther out.

而且就像我说的，这些人很谦虚，愿意按照我的要求去做，让我经历一些我觉得非常好的高强度训练，确保我的耐力处于正确的状态。

And and and like I said, these guys are humble enough to do what I need them to do is put me through some strenuous workouts that I think are a great idea, make sure my endurance is in the right place.

那么，除了你做了那么多力量和体能训练，或者说那么多力量举重之外，还有什么？比如，你在圣犹大比赛进入八角笼时，感觉怎么样？

So other than the fact that you did so much strength and conditioning or or so much power lifting, what else like, what did you feel when you got into the octagon when you fought over in Saint Jude?

你觉得自己更强壮了吗？

Did you feel stronger?

你有没有觉得因为这么多力量举重，你的耐力有所下降？

Did you feel like your endurance had been diminished slightly because of all this power lifting?

嗯，就像我说的，我停了七个月的武术训练，然后进行了三个月的训练营。

Well, like, so so like I was saying, I I took off seven months of martial arts, and then I did a three month camp.

所以，就像任何事情一样，如果你七个月不练，你的水平肯定会有所变化。

And so if you like anything, if you take off seven months of anything, your your game is gonna change a little bit.

所以，说实话，在整个训练营期间，我发现自己一直在努力重新学习怎么打。对。

So, literally, throughout my training camp, I found myself trying to get learn how to fight again Mhmm.

差不多吧。

Pretty much.

我感觉像是

I felt like

时机不对。

Timing was off.

我的时机不对。

My timing was off.

我的创造力也不在状态。

My creativity was off.

我以前那些惯用的招数，都不太使得出来了。

The things that I the the go to moves that I used to do weren't quite there.

我会回看自己以前的训练录像或者比赛，然后就想，天哪，我现在做不出以前那些动作了。

I would watch some of my old training practices or my old fights, and I'm like, man, I'm not doing this stuff that I was doing before.

所以进场比赛前我真的很紧张，但我知道我有把握打败DC，因为我对付DC的战术和训练都准备得非常充分。

So I was really nervous going into I knew that I was ready to beat DC because I was so well rehearsed and, like, the the the drills and everything were so well rehearsed to beat DC.

但是，从武术的角度来说，按时上场的话。

But, as far as going on time, from martial arts.

所以在圣普劳德的那场比赛中，我感觉自己特别强壮。

So in the fight with over in Saint Proud, I felt really strong.

我感觉真的非常非常强壮，比如把他抱起来靠在笼子上，然后把他摔倒，感觉毫不费力。

I felt really, really strong, like, picking him up against the cage and and and, taking him down felt effortless.

和你以前的感觉不一样了。

As opposed to the way you used to feel.

你感觉更强壮了。

You felt stronger.

我感觉我真的非常强壮。

I felt I felt really strong.

更强壮了。

Stronger.

还有什么？

What else?

耐力感觉不错。

Endurance felt good.

我感觉挺好的。

I felt good.

但不像平时那么敏锐。

It wasn't as sharp as normal.

比如，有几次我把他摔倒后，我记得我挥拳，打了一记重拳。

Like, a few times when when I took him down, I remember I wound up in a punch, and I threw a big punch.

然后我又挥拳，在DC又打中了他一次。

And then I wound up, and then I hit hit him again in DC.

他说那是打在后脑勺上，其实不是。

He said it was in the back of the head, which it wasn't.

是打在脖子上。

It was on the neck.

但我是在打重拳，而不是连续出很多拳，那是因为我手臂里感觉有乳酸堆积。

But I was throwing big shots on instead of throwing a whole bunch of shots, and that was because I was feeling lactic acid in my arms.

所以这让我有点紧张，因为我没有平时那种正常的耐力水平。

So so that kind of made me nervous that I I didn't have the normal level of endurance that I normally have.

你觉得是因为你肌肉量增加了？

Do you think that's because you had more muscle bulk?

我觉得是的。

I think it was yeah.

我觉得就是因为肌肉量增加了。

I think it is because I had more muscle bulk.

但好的一面是，虽然伤到人不是什么好事，但我确实用一记踢击打断或骨折了他的手臂，这是我以前从没做到过的。

But on the bright side, and not that this is a good thing to to injure someone, but I did break or fracture his arm with a kick, and that's something that I I've never done before.

所以这让我明白，这肯定和我臀部和腿部发展出的巨大力量有关。

So that showed me that definitely came that has to be connected to just developing so much power in my hips into my legs.

这就像是一个平衡点，对吧，力量和耐力之间的权衡，要找到那个完美的平衡点。

It's a point of it's there's like a balancing tipping point, right, where it's like strength versus endurance and trying to find that perfect line.

现在，当我坐在这里的时候，我在用过去的经验来衡量我现在正在做的事情。

And right now, as I as I sit here today, I'm I'm I'm using my past experience and, you know, to measure what I'm doing as we speak.

所以现在，我壮得像头牛，但我的耐力其实现在处于一个非常好的状态，而且我直到七月才比赛。

So right now, I'm strong as hell, but my endurance is actually in a really good place right now, and I'm not fighting until July.

所以现在，就在我们说话的时候，我正在琢磨这件事。

So Now when figuring it out right now as we speak.

你变得特别壮的时候，是在做那个吗？

When you got really big, were you doing that?

你有没有想过，嘿，

Were you thinking, hey.

你知道吗，有一天我要去打重量级。

You know, one day, I'm gonna fight heavyweight.

看看我作为重量级选手会是什么样子。

Let's see what I would be like as a heavyweight.

你知道吗，我当时并不知道自己接下来要做什么。

You know, I didn't know I didn't know what I was gonna do at that point.

我只是需要一些能让我充满热情、能让我有竞争感的事情。

I just I just needed something to be passionate about, something to be competitive about.

在你被禁赛的时候。

While you were suspended.

在我被禁赛的时候。

While I was suspended.

而且，你知道，车祸之后我确实经历了一段非常自暴自弃的时期。

And, you know, I I I went through a real self destructive state right after the car accident.

然后怎么个自暴自弃法？

And then How so?

我就是开始更频繁地参加派对。

I just started to party more.

我当时真的很抑郁。

I was I was really I was really depressed.

我的腰带被剥夺了，直到安东尼·约翰逊和DC第一次交手，我才加入健身房，重新振作起来。

The belt had been stripped from me and not until Anthony Johnson and DC fought that first time that I that I joined the gym and and get my get myself together.

那为什么是那个时候？

And why was that?

就是看着

Just watching

那场比赛，看着这些人在竞争

that fight, watching these guys competing

争夺你的腰带？

for your belt?

就是看着他们争夺那条腰带。

Just seeing them compete for the belt.

我心里想，天哪，我这是在浪费天赋。

I thought to myself, man, I am wasting, I'm wasting talent.

我在浪费一切。

I'm wasting everything.

你知道吗，我觉得我能打败这两个人，而他们站在台上，出现在电视上，那本该是我的位置，我却坐在家里，沉浸在抑郁里。

Like, you know, I believe I can be both of these guys, and they're up there and, on TV where I should be, and I'm sitting here at home kind of, you know, living in this depression.

所以，真的，第二天，我就打电话，我迷迷糊糊地走到那儿去了。

And so, literally, the next day, called, the I walked down there stoned.

然后我就说，嘿。

And and, I was just like, hey.

我得把生活重新整理好。

I need to get my life together.

我需要一些让我兴奋的东西，一些能激励我、推动我、让我起床、让我出门的东西。

I need something I need something to, be excited about, something to to inspire me, motivate me, get me up, get me out of the house.

然后从那天起，我彻底扭转了一切，开始寻找新的热情，那就是举重。

And, and I just completely turned everything around from that day before and just started to to find a new passion, and and that was weightlifting.

我变得又强又快，这成了我的一切，比如每周我的重量数字都在上升，事实也确实如此。

And and I I got so strong so fast, and it became it became everything to me, like, just for my numbers to go up every week, which they did.

我发现自己又真正开心起来了，比如，我身高六英尺四英寸，体重只有两百二十五磅，腿很细，却能深蹲五百磅。

And I I found myself really happy again, like, you know, squatting 500 pounds with being six four and only weighing, you know, two twenty five, you know, with these really skinny legs.

五百磅可是很重的。

500 pounds is a lot of weight.

硬拉六百磅。

Dead lifting 600 pounds.

你知道吗，那家健身房有些练了好几年的人都还达不到那个水平，但我做到了。

You know, there was there are guys who have been training at that gym for years who still can't do those type of numbers, and I was able to do it.

所以我当时就想，天哪，只要我下定决心，什么事都能做成。

So I was just like, man, you know, I can do anything I put my mind to.

我当时觉得自己会成为阿尔伯克基最强壮的人之一。

And I just thought I was gonna become one of the strongest motherfuckers in Albuquerque.

那就是我的计划。

Like, that was my that was that was my plan.

嗯，力量举健身房竞争很激烈，大家都特别执着于举更重的重量。

Well, power lifting gyms are very competitive, and guys get super hung up on the idea of, like, lifting heavier and heavier weights.

他

He's

上瘾了。

hooked.

我之前请过马克·贝尔上播客，还在哥伦布跟路易斯·西蒙斯一起做过一期节目，他是世界知名的力量举大师，那家伙简直是个疯子。

I've had Mark Bell on the podcast before, and I we also did a podcast in Columbus with Louis Simmons, who's a world famous power lifting guru, and he he's a fucking maniac.

而且对所有那些人来说，一切都只是为了举起更大的重量。

And it's all with all those guys, it's all just about putting up big numbers.

数字。

Numbers.

继续。

Keeping going.

继续。

Keeping going.

继续下去。

Keep it going.

更重的数字。

Heavier numbers.

你知道吗？

You know?

是的。

It yeah.

我，我一下子就爱上了它。

I I fell in love with it.

这是一种疯狂的纪律。

It's crazy sort of discipline.

确实。

It is.

对你来说太简单了。

It's so it's so simple to you.

你只是，对。

You just Yeah.

举起来。

Lift it up.

但真的很有成就感。

But it's very satisfying.

对于旁观的人来说，谁在乎你能深蹲500磅？

For people looking at it, like, gives a fuck if you can squat 500 pounds?

但当你真正在做的时候，对，就是这样。

But when you're doing it like Yeah.

你在尖叫。

You're screaming.

没错。

Exactly.

杠铃一响。

Clink.

到处都是击掌，镁粉在空中飞舞。

So many high fives, chalks flying in the air.

这感觉太棒了，兄弟。

It's the best, dude.

我跟你说。

I'm telling you.

我太喜欢了。

I love it.

我真的很喜欢力量举，非常喜欢。

I I I really love powerlifting a lot.

不过，你担心受伤吗？

Worried at all about getting injured, though?

因为受伤也是力量举很重要的一部分。

Because that's a big part of powerlifting too.

我有很好的教练，他们教我正确的做法，但很多时候也允许我姿势不到位，因为很多人总是追求完美姿势。对。

I have I have pretty good trainers, and and and they teach me the right way to do things, but they also allow me to be out of position a lot of times too because a lot of times people focus on the perfect form Mhmm.

每件事都追求完美。

At everything.

但当你举很重的重量时，你不可能总是保持完美姿势。

But when you lift a real big weight, you're not always gonna be in the perfect form.

所以他们有时候几乎允许我姿势不到位，或者不完美，然后仍然能撑过去。

So they they almost allow me to be out of position sometimes or not in the perfect form and still power through positions.

这样，你才会变得强壮。

That way, you're you're strong.

从格斗的角度来说。

In a grappling sense.

你在动作的每个阶段都很强壮。

You're strong in every you're strong in every every every part of the movement.

不管姿势好不好，你都能举起大重量。

Whether you're in good form or bad form, you're still able to lift big weight.

嗯，这就是功能性力量背后的核心理念。

Well, that's the big theory behind functional strength.

这就是为什么人们喜欢做高翻和推举这类动作，因为用重量做这些动作很别扭，你会处于各种奇怪的姿势，全身都在发力。

That's why people like doing things like power cleans and presses because it's such an awkward thing to do with the weight, and you're you're in weird movements, and you're doing things with your whole body.

那你最近在做什么？

Now what are you doing these days?

最近，我一直在做……

So these days, I am I have just been doing

你回到杰克逊那里了吗？

Are you back to Jackson's?

练了很多力量举，还有摔跤和柔术。

Bunch of power lifting and a bunch of wrestling and jujitsu.

这就是我最近在忙的事。

That's been my thing lately.

不练打击了吗？

No striking?

不练了。

No.

我一点打击都没练。

I haven't done any striking.

我的全部目标就是，完全不要被拳头打到头。

My my whole goal is to, not get punched in the head at all.

这就是你的目标？

That's your goal?

对，这就是我的计划。

Well, that's what my plan is.

我打算最终调整我的训练计划，多练练手靶，提升我的灵活性，还有脚步上的能力。

I'm I'm going to eventually alter my my workout routine to where I'm doing a lot of mitts and and working on my versatility working on my versatility and and and just my abilities on my feet.

你现在不打拳也不踢腿了？

You you're not throwing any punches these days, not throwing any kicks?

听起来挺疯狂的，

That sounds crazy to

对我来说。

me.

但我的计划就是开始练这些。

But my plan is to get into that.

那不会持续太久，但我不会做太多实战对抗，尤其是高强度的那种。

That that's not gonna last for too long, but I I won't be doing too much sparring, especially heavy sparring.

但即使不做实战对抗，你

But even without doing any sparring, you

你连沙袋都不打吗？

you don't hit the bag?

你不进去吗？

You don't go in?

不去了。

No.

最近我一直在练摔跤和柔术。

Lately, I've been doing a a whole bunch of wrestling in jujitsu.

哇。

Wow.

而且我真的开始喜欢上它了。

And I'm I'm really starting to love it too.

就是柔术。

Just jujitsu.

真的吗？

Really?

我真的开始爱上柔术了。

I'm I'm really starting to love jiu jitsu.

而柔术是我整个职业生涯中最忽视的一项技术，但令人惊讶的是，我在轻重量级历史上的降服次数是最多的。

And the jiu jitsu has been the art that I've neglected the most over my entire career, and surprisingly, I have the most submissions in Light Heavyweight history.

我觉得肯·沙姆罗克或者金·沙姆罗克就在我后面，大概五次，而我有六次。

I think Ken Shamrock Kim Shamrock is right behind me with maybe five, and I I have six.

肯·沙姆罗克？

Ken Shamrock?

或者弗兰克，他们中的一个。

Or or Frank, one of them.

沙姆罗克兄弟中的一个在我后面，降服次数最多。

One of the Shamrock brothers are behind me for most submissions in

嗯，肯从来不是轻重量级选手。

Well, Ken was never a Light Heavyweight.

我的意思是，肯在和蒂托打的时候才降到轻重量级，但早期的时候，他是重量级选手。

I mean, Ken went to Light Heavyweight when he fought Tito, but in the early days, like, when he was he was a heavyweight.

我相信有人能搞清楚这个。

I'm sure someone can figure out figure out.

在蒂托那个年代，肯确实是轻重量级选手，但那是他职业生涯后期的事了。

Was a Light Heavyweight in the Tito days, but that was Ken, you know, later on in his career.

弗兰克有多少次降服？

How many submissions did Frank have?

可能是弗兰克。

Maybe it's Frank.

我不知道。

I don't know.

肯或者弗兰克。

Ken or Frank.

我觉得沙姆洛克兄弟中的一个在降服次数上紧随我之后。

I think one of the Shamrock brothers are right behind me on

降服次数。

submissions.

有意思。

Interesting.

传奇人物。

Legends.

这项运动的传奇。

Legends of the sport.

不。

No.

是开拓者，兄弟。

Pioneers, man.

但现在我超爱柔术，兄弟。

But now I love jiu jitsu, man.

而且，你天生就是练这个的料。

And Well, you built for it.

那绝对没错。

That's for fuck sure.

这长胳膊，兄弟。

These long arms, man.

我我我我快变成锁喉达人了。

I'm I'm I'm I'm becoming a choke man.

我只是，我，我太震惊了。

I just I'm I'm shocked.

比如说，我会觉得一个职业综合格斗选手至少得保持一定的打击训练水平吧。

Like, I would assume that someone who's a professional mixed martial arts fighter has to at least maintain a maintenance level of striking

好吧。

Alright.

一直如此。

Constantly.

而且而且我的计划是重新回去练。

And and my plan is to get back in.

七月还早着呢。

I still July is still very far away.

那七月的时候，这怎么安排？

Now when July how does that work?

当你被禁赛的时候，这个问题我一直想知道。

When you're suspended because, this is a question that I've always wanted to know.

比如说，如果你因为使用兴奋剂或者类似的事情被禁赛，你是不是不应该和其他UFC选手一起训练，还是说那是胡说八道？

Like, if you're suspended for a PED or something along those lines, aren't you not supposed to train with other fighters that are in the UFC, or is that bullshit?

我我我还没听说过关于关于

I I I haven't heard anything about about

因为那听起来太离谱了。

because that sounds crazy.

你不能训练，尤其是如果你想帮助朋友的话。

You can't train, especially if you're trying to help friends

这对一个在外面的人来说会很有疗愈作用。

Which would be very therapeutic for someone who's on the outside.

而且你知道，我花了很多时间帮助其他选手。

And that's you know, I spend a lot of time helping other fighters.

这对你复出帮助大吗？

Does that help you a lot when you're trying to get back in

是的，绝对是这样。

things and just sort of Absolutely.

我家里总是有人在研究他们的对手。

There's always someone in my house studying their opponents.

我觉得这是MMA和武术最棒的地方之一，就是帮助朋友。

That's a that is one of the best parts about MMA and martial arts in general, I think, is helping friends.

回馈。

Giving back.

这对我来说也是新体验，因为武术可能是一项非常自私的运动。

Something that's new to me too because martial arts can be a very selfish sport.

你知道，它是一项团队运动，但如果你不把自己放在第一位，你就无法达到一定水平。

You know, it's a it's a team sport, but if you're not putting yourself first, then you're not going to make it to a certain level.

所以我的整个职业生涯都非常自私，这也是我的教练们一直批评我的地方。

So I've been really selfish my entire career, and that's one thing my coaches have always gotten on me about.

嘿，乔恩。

Hey, Jon.

我知道你住在纽约。

I know you live in New York.

我知道你有家庭，但你需要回到这里来帮助这些家伙。

I know you got a family, but you need to get back down here and help these guys.

他们有一场即将到来的比赛。

They have a fight coming up.

现在住在阿尔伯克基，我一直在回馈，帮助其他拳手，尤其是经历了这么多禁赛之后。

And now that I live in Albuquerque, I'm constantly giving back and and and helping other fighters, especially, you know, since I've had all these suspensions happen.

你是不是身边围了太多喜欢聚会的人？

Do you surround yourself with too many people that like to party?

以前是的。

I used to.

以前是吗？

You used to?

以前确实是的。

I used to, for sure.

我以前有很多爱玩的朋友。

I used to have a lot of wild friends.

那你是什么时候不再和这些人混在一起的？

And when did you stop hanging out with these people?

是车祸之后吗？

The car accident?

还是，比如，最近？

Or, like, yesterday?

不是。

No.

是车祸之后。

After the car accident.

当我决定彻底戒酒的时候，我疏远了很多朋友。

When I when I decided that I was gonna be completely sober, I I let loose a lot of friends.

那会儿挺疯狂的，因为以前每到周五晚上，我的手机就会响个不停，因为大家都知道乔恩会给大家买单。

And it was crazy because I used to my phone used to blow up on Friday nights because everybody knew that Jon was gonna be buying everything that people needed.

你知道吗，这其实就是问题所在。

Like, you know, like, I literally That was the problem.

去酒吧的时候，我会直接买大概40杯Patron龙舌兰。

Guy who went to the bar, and I would just buy, like, 40 shots of Patron.

然后我就觉得，只要你站在我旁边，就能拿到一杯Patron。

And I'm just like and literally, if you're standing around me, you're getting a shot of Patron.

我就这么一杯一杯地发出去。

I'm just passing them out.

然后不知不觉，那些互不相识的人就开始互相拥抱了。

And next thing you know, people who don't even know each other, they're all hugging.

我很擅长把大家聚在一起，让陌生人也能玩得很开心。

I'm really good at merging people together and having a look at strangers and having a great time.

这就是我的风格，走进一个只认识五个人的酒吧，最后多了二十个新朋友，大家就一起玩。

And that was my thing, like, walking to a bar where I know five people, and now I have 20 new homies, and, like, everybody's just hanging out.

所以当你这样的时候，周五晚上八点一到，就开始了。

And so when you're like that, you know, Friday nights come around 08:00.