吉米·坎摩尔的停职与特朗普的联邦通信委员会

来自HollyGrant，这里是《吉米·坎摩尔直播秀》。今晚

From HollyGrant, it's Jimmy Kimmel Live. Tonight

周一深夜秀《吉米·坎摩尔直播秀》的节目开始时和往常一样。大家好，我们开始吧。开始吧。开始吧。

Monday's episode of the late night show Jimmy Kimmel Live started off like most other days. Hi, everybody. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.

坎摩尔在直播观众面前登台，开始了他的独白。

Kimmel took the stage in front of a live audience and launched into a monologue.

坎摩尔进行了很多人预期中那种典型的吉米·坎摩尔式独白，对吧？其中包含了对特朗普的批评。

Kimmel delivered what a lot of people would expect to be kind of a normal Jimmy Kimmel monologue, right, which included criticism of Trump.

这是我们的同事玛吉·塞维林斯。

That's our colleague Maggie Severins.

但这一切发生在人们正为查理·柯克之死哀悼的特殊时刻。

But it was happening at this extraordinary moment where people are grieving the death of Charlie Kirk.

周末我们见证了一些新低点，MAGA团伙拼命试图将杀害查理·柯克的那个年轻人描述成与他们无关的人，并竭尽所能从中捞取政治资本。在相互指责之间，周五人们沉浸在悲痛中

We had some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it. In between the finger pointing, there was grieving on Friday the

吉米·坎摩尔还对特朗普总统的哀悼方式提出了批评。

Kimmel was also critical of president Trump's grieving process.

这不是一个成年人哀悼他称之为朋友的人被谋杀的方式。这是一个四岁孩子哀悼金鱼的方式。明白吗？

This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he called a friend. This is how a four year old mourns a goldfish. Okay?

事情并非仅仅

It didn't just

坎摩尔几乎每天都在他的节目中抨击特朗普。但这一次，保守派认为他的独白有些过火了。

Kimmel goes after Trump almost every day on his show. But this time, conservatives felt that his monologue took things too far.

这个群体已经被吉米·坎摩尔多次冒犯，而这次成了压垮骆驼的最后一根稻草。

This is a crowd that has already been offended many times by Jimmy Kimmel, and this became the straw that broke the camel's back.

周三，迪士尼公司表示将无限期停播坎摩尔的节目。表面上看，这似乎是公司对公众压力的直接回应。但玛吉表示，实际上事情远不止这么简单。

On Wednesday, Disney said it was suspending Kimmel's show indefinitely. On its face, it looked like a straightforward case of a company responding to public pressure. But Maggie says there was actually a lot more to it than that.

这里涉及到关于什么是言论自由的问题。还有关于特朗普如何行使联邦政府权力的问题。这一切在某种程度上都指向此刻，指向这个机构及其官员布伦丹·卡尔，他似乎掌握着这些法律和行政手段来真正落实特朗普的议程。

There are questions in here about what is free speech. There are questions about what is Trump doing to wield the federal government's power. And it all kind of leads to this, right now, this one agency and this one bureaucrat, Brendan Carr, who feels like he has these legal and bureaucratic tools to really carry out Trump's agenda.

欢迎收听《华尔街日报》节目，我们的节目探讨金钱、商业与权力。我是瑞恩·努森。今天是9月19日星期五。本期节目将聚焦：吉米·坎摩尔的停职风波与特朗普不断升级的竞选活动。联邦通信委员会主席布伦丹·卡尔是众多要求对坎摩尔言论进行惩戒的保守派人士之一。

Welcome to the journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knutson. It's Friday, September 19. Coming up on the show, Jimmy Kimmel's suspension and Trump's escalating campaign Among the many conservatives calling for Jimmy Kimmel to be reprimanded for his comments was Brendan Carr, the head of the Federal Communications Commission.

美国证券交易委员会主席布伦丹·卡尔参加了本尼·约翰逊的播客节目。本尼·约翰逊是右翼媒体的重要人物。

Brendan Carr, who's the chairman of the SEC, went on Benny Johnson's podcast. Benny Johnson being a big right wing media figure.

主席先生，非常感谢您参与我们的节目。

Mister chairman, thank you so much for being on our program.

他表示这对迪士尼而言是当前非常非常严峻的问题。

And he said this is a very, very serious issue right now for Disney.

迪士尼旗下ABC电视台制作了吉米·坎摩尔的节目。以下是卡尔的原话。

Disney owns ABC, the network that makes Jimmy Kimmel show. Here's Carr.

当你审视吉米·坎摩尔的行为时，这可能是最令人作呕的行径之一。

You know, when you look at the conduct that has taken place by Jimmy Kimmel, it appears to be some of the sickest conduct possible.

卡尔在播客中指责坎摩尔通过暗示查理·柯克枪手是特朗普支持者来误导公众。据枪手母亲向调查人员透露，其子在过去一年愈发倾向左翼立场。

On the podcast, Carr said that Kimmel was misleading the public by suggesting that the Charlie Kirk shooter was a Trump supporter. The shooter's mother has told investigators that her son had grown more left leaning over the last year.

吉米·坎摩尔的举动似乎有意迎合那种叙事，即此人某种程度上是受MAGA或共和党驱使的。如果他的行为确实如此，那真是极其病态。我一直

Appears to be in action by Jimmy Kimmel to play into that narrative that this was somehow a MAGA or Republican motivated person. If that's what happened here with his conduct, that is that is really, really sick. I've been

卡尔的批评比其他保守派批评者更有分量，因为他所在的机构——联邦通信委员会（FCC）对ABC等广播公司拥有监管权。

Carr's criticism carried a bit more weight than other conservative critics because his agency, the FCC, has regulatory oversight over broadcasters like ABC.

然后他说，我们可以用简单的方式解决，也可以用困难的方式解决。

And he said, we can do this the easy way or the hard way.

我是说，听着。我们可以用简单的方式解决，也可以用困难的方式解决。这些公司完全可以采取措施改变行为，坦率地说，针对坎摩尔采取行动，否则FCC后续还会有更多工作要做。

I mean, look. We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct to take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or, you know, there's gonna be additional work for the FCC ahead.

我们稍后再谈布伦丹·卡尔。他是谁？

Let's talk about Brendan Carr for a moment. Who who is he?

一方面，布伦丹·卡尔是这类特朗普战士，声称自己能对广播电视新闻行使巨大权力；另一方面，他又是已在FCC工作十余年的华盛顿官僚。他采取了与前任截然不同的方式，在网络上非常直言不讳。他不怕被视为政治化，也不怕被视为与总统关系密切。

So on the one hand, Brendan Carr is this kind of Trump warrior who says that he can wield this huge power over broadcast and network news. On the other hand, he is a Washington bureaucrat who's been working at the FCC for more than ten years. He's taken a very different approach from people before him, and he has been very vocal online. He's not afraid to be seen as political, and he's not afraid to be seen as very closely allied with the president.

卡尔全力支持特朗普。他甚至被看到佩戴着印有特朗普头像的金色领针。他还为《2025计划》撰写了一章内容，这份颇具争议的共和党蓝图阐述了FCC应当采取的行动。

Carr is all in on Trump. He's even been seen wearing a golden lapel pin with Trump's face. And he also wrote a chapter in Project twenty twenty five, that controversial Republican blueprint on what the FCC should be doing.

是的，他确实这么做了。他撰写了一章关于联邦通信委员会（FCC）应履行职责的内容，勾勒出一个更为强势的FCC形象。

Yeah. He did. He wrote a chapter on what the FCC should be doing that outlined a much more kind of muscular FCC.

卡斯试图展现FCC权威的方式之一，是利用其授予广播许可证的权力。你能解释一下广播许可证是什么，以及为什么它对电视网络如此重要吗？

One of the ways Cars has sought to flex the FCC's muscles is by using its power over granting broadcast licenses. Can you explain what broadcast licenses are and why they matter to a TV network?

当然重要。因为广播许可证赋予你使用无线电波的权利，明白吗？无线电波就在那里，就像对待广播一样，需要有人来规范谁可以使用它们。国会将这一理念写入法律：如果你获得了使用无线电波的许可证，就意味着你承担着某些责任。

Yeah. They matter because a broadcast license lets you use the airwaves. Right? The airwaves are out there, and someone needed to, just like with radio, kind of regulate who gets them. And there's this idea written into the law by congress that if you have a license to use the airwaves, there are certain responsibilities then that you carry.

对吧？

Right?

没错。因为政府实质上是在将这些电波资源分配给企业，所以要求它们必须为了公共利益来使用这部分公共资源——其他人无法使用的资源。

Right. Because the government is basically giving these companies a slice of the airwaves, and so the command is that they ought to be using that piece, that public resource that nobody else can use in the public interest.

正是如此。几十年来，这个‘公共利益’理念基本处于边缘地位。我们的记者仅发现过一例实际应用：七十年代初南方某电视台因宣扬种族隔离而被吊销广播许可证。明白吗？于是，布伦丹·卡斯一年多来不断强调——我们应当重新审视这一权力。

Yes. And for decades, that public interest idea has basically kind of sat on the sidelines. There was one time that one of our reporters could find that that's actually been used, and it was a station in the South in the early nineteen seventies that had its broadcast license revoked, over promoting segregation. Right? And so, you know, for a year, more than a year, Brendan Carr said, we should be looking at this.

他曾说，这些许可证并非神圣不可侵犯。如果持证者违背公共利益，我们有权收回。问题在于：究竟什么是公共利益？

Like, these licenses, he would say, are not sacred cows. We can take away someone's license if they aren't acting in the public interest. The question then is, what is the public interest?

玛吉和我们的同事乔·弗林特最近在华盛顿特区的办公室采访了卡尔。卡尔向他们讲述了他认为什么是符合或不符合公众利益的事情。

Maggie and our colleague Joe Flint recently interviewed Carr at his office in Washington, DC. Carr told them about what he thinks is and is not in the public interest.

嗯，这不是为了针对他们

Well, it's not going after them for

有利或不利的报道。他们也有很多有利的报道。关键在于是否符合公众利益标准。而这一标准的一个要素，就是新闻失真。所以我认为其中一点

favorable or unfavorable coverage. There's lots of favorable covers that they do as well. It's it's holding it to that, you know, public interest standard. And one of the, you know, the elements of that public interest standard, is, you know, news distortion. And so I think one of

FCC有一项禁止新闻失真的规定，要求广播公司不得利用公共电波故意传播关于重大新闻事件的明显不实信息。该规定很少被应用。转播ABC节目的地方电视台需要获得广播执照，因此失去这些权利将对其业务极为不利。这些广播执照也给了卡尔在并购问题上的另一个杠杆。广播执照若要转让给另一家公司（如并购情况下），必须获得FCC批准。

The FCC has a rule against news distortion, which says broadcasters aren't allowed to use the public airwaves to knowingly spread blatantly inaccurate information about a major news event. The rule has rarely been applied. Local stations that carry ABC need a license to broadcast over the airwaves, so losing those rights would be very detrimental to their business. Those broadcast licenses also give Carr another point of leverage, over mergers. In order for a broadcast license to be transferred to another company, like in the case of a merger, the FCC has to sign off.

以今年早些时候Skydance想要与派拉蒙合并为例，卡尔的FCC负责监督此事。在交易获批前，派拉蒙同意支付1600万美元和解特朗普对CBS（派拉蒙旗下网络之一）的诉讼。该公司还聘请了一位特朗普盟友来监督其报道中是否存在偏见迹象。以下是卡尔在CNBC上谈论这次合并的内容。

Take, for example, earlier this year when Skydance wanted to merge with Paramount. Carr's FCC got to oversee that. And before the deal was approved, Paramount agreed to pay $16,000,000 to settle a Trump lawsuit against CBS, one of Paramount's networks. The company also hired a Trump ally to keep an eye out for signs of bias in its coverage. Here's Carr talking about the merger on CNBC.

在整个过程中，对我来说最重要的是CBS的新东家表示是时候做出改变了。我们将重新调整方向，消除偏见，注重基于事实的报道。他们说要废除有害的DEI歧视形式。

The thing that was really important to me in all of this was that the new owners of CBS came in and said, it's time for a change. We're gonna reorient it towards getting rid of bias to looking at fact based reporting. They said they're gonna get rid of invidious forms of DEI discrimination.

回到金梅尔这件事上，当卡尔说'我们可以用简单的方式或困难的方式解决'时，似乎暗示FCC可以采取很多措施向ABC施压。

Well, getting back to this Kimmel situation, it seems like when Carr said, we can do this the easy way or the hard way, he's implying that there's a lot the FCC can do to put pressure on ABC.

言下之意是，嘿，我手握所有这些杠杆，而且我不惮于使用它们。这些大公司必须与FCC打交道，我认为将卡尔的话解读为一种威胁并不牵强——他实际上在说，我能让你们的日子难过得多。

The implication there is, hey. I have all these levers, and I'm not afraid to use them. So these large companies have to interact with the FCC, and I don't think it's a stretch to interpret that as a threat from Carr saying, hey, I can make your life much harder.

卡尔最终并未采取强硬手段。接下来，揭秘迪士尼决定停播吉米秀的内幕。FCC并非唯一对迪士尼（ABC母公司）具有影响力的角色，其两大主要附属合作伙伴也在施加压力。

Carr didn't end up needing to do things the hard way. Coming up, inside Disney's decision to pull the plug on Kimmel. The FCC wasn't the only player with leverage over Disney, ABC's parent company. Two of its biggest affiliate partners were also dialing up the pressure.

这些全国性公司如ABC、NBC、CBS存在，但当你收看网络新闻时，实际接收的是地方附属台的信号。对吧？正是这些地方台转播着全国性节目。因此存在拥有地方频道的公司，以及像NBC或CBS这样通过地方频道播出的全国性公司。

You have these national companies, ABC, NBC, CBS. But when you think about what actually happens when you're watching network news, you're watching your local affiliate. Right? And those local affiliates are actually carrying the national broadcast. And so there's a company that owns that local affiliate, and then there's a national company like NBC or CBS that's being carried on the local channel.

开始向迪士尼施压的附属台之一是Nexstar，该公司运营着全美超过30家ABC电视台。

One of the affiliates that started pressuring Disney is called Nexstar. It operates more than 30 ABC stations around the country.

Nexstar宣布将停播吉米秀。其总裁公开表示：'吉米先生关于柯克先生逝世的言论，在我们国家 discourse 的关键时刻显得冒犯且缺乏同理心。'

Nexstar said that it was not going to carry Kimmel's show. So the president of NextStar came out and said, mister Kimmel's comments about the death of mister Kirk are offensive and insensitive at a critical time in our national discourse.

Nexstar目前正向FCC申请以62亿美元收购另一个地方电视台网络。该公司称停播决定前未与FCC或任何政府机构沟通。另一家采取行动的附属台Sinclair拥有30家ABC电视台，决定在该时段播出纪念柯克的特别节目而非吉米秀。FCC的卡尔后来在福克斯新闻采访中对此举表示赞赏。

NextStar is currently seeking approval from the FCC to acquire another network of local stations in a deal valued at $6,200,000,000. The company said it had no communication with the FCC or any government agency prior to making the decision to pull Kimmel's show. The other affiliate to take action was Sinclair, which owns another 30 ABC stations. Sinclair said that instead of airing Kimmel's show, it would air a special during that time slot in remembrance of Kirk. Carr, at the FCC, later applauded these moves during an interview on Fox News.

如您所言，Nexstar站出来声明：'我们持有许可证，但不愿继续播出。这不符合社区利益。'Sinclair也采取了相同行动。虽然还有工作要做，但很高兴看到美国广播公司们正挺身维护社区利益。

Nexstar, as you noted, stood up and said, look. We have the license, and we don't wanna run this anymore. We don't think it serves the interest of our community. Sinclair did the same thing. So there's more work to go, but I'm very glad to see that America's broadcasters are standing up to serve the interest of their community.

我们不仅仅有来自纽约和好莱坞这种所谓进步派的鹅肝酱。

We don't just have this progressive foie gras coming out from New York and Hollywood.

随着Nexstar和Sinclair的投诉加剧了局势，ABC内部的高管们感受到了压力。

As complaints from Nexstar and Sinclair intensified the situation, inside ABC, executives were feeling the pressure.

所以我的同事乔·弗林特一直在报道这件事，他在一篇报道中提到，这则新闻如何迅速传到了ABC高层，成为首席执行官鲍勃·艾格等人讨论的话题，而Nexstar决定停播该节目是影响他们行动的关键因素之一。

So my colleague Joe Flint, who's been reporting on this, talks about how in one of his stories, this news really kind of shot up the ladder at ABC, and it was a conversation, you know, that the chief executive, Bob Iger, and others are having and that, you know, Nexstar's decision to stop carrying the show was one of the factors that really influenced their actions.

迪士尼高管担心金梅尔为周三节目准备的发言可能使事态恶化。据知情人士透露，金梅尔原计划告诉观众，他对柯克的言论被MAGA运动的部分成员故意曲解。公司也开始担忧节目组人员的安全，因为他们开始收到威胁信息。于是迪士尼做出了决定：金梅尔的节目被无限期停播。

Disney executives were worried that what Kimmel had planned to say for Wednesday's show might make things worse. According to people familiar with the matter, Kimmel had planned to tell the audience that his words on Kirk had been purposefully twisted by some members of the MAGA movement. The company was also growing concerned about the safety of the show's staff, who'd started receiving threatening messages. And so Disney made the call. Kimmel's show was being suspended indefinitely.

金梅尔自停播后未公开置评。节目停播后，特朗普在社交媒体上庆祝，称这是'美国的重大好消息'，并说金梅尔'毫无才华'。他还似乎呼吁另一家电视台NBC取消另外两档深夜节目——《赛斯·梅耶斯深夜秀》和《吉米·法伦今夜秀》。但这并未阻止梅耶斯和法伦发声。

Kimmel has not publicly commented since his suspension. After Kimmel was taken off the air, Trump took to social media to celebrate. He said it was, quote, great news for America and that Kimmel had, quote, zero talent. He also appeared to call in another network, NBC, to cancel two other major late night shows, Late Night with Seth Meyers and The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon. That didn't stop Meyers and Fallon from weighing in, though.

梅耶斯批评金梅尔停播是对言论自由的打压。法伦则表示希望金梅尔回归荧幕。NBC环球发言人拒绝置评。昨日特朗普还向记者表示，FCC应该吊销那些'反对他'的电视台的广播执照。

Myers criticized Kimmel's suspension as part of a crackdown on free speech. Fallon said he hopes Kimmel comes back on air. An NBC Universal spokeswoman declined to comment. Yesterday, Trump also told reporters that the FCC should revoke broadcast licenses of networks that are, quote, against him.

他们只给我负面报道。我是说，他们持有执照。我觉得或许该吊销他们的执照。这要由布伦丹·卡尔来决定。

They give me only bad publicity or press. I mean, they're getting a license. I I would think maybe their license should be taken away. I I it will be up to Brendan Carr.

这是特朗普长期谈论的话题，记得他在竞选期间就经常抨击媒体，像CBS、ABC这样的广播公司。在这件事上，对吉米·坎摩尔的威胁似乎已经足够见效了。

This is something that Trump has talked about for a while, you know, when he was on the campaign trail, this, you know, railing at the media and railing at broadcasters like CBS and ABC is something he did often. And so as we move forward with this, in this case, the threat of action seems to have been enough when it came to Jimmy Kimmel.

这看起来也像是特朗普首个任期内的情况——当时若他宣称‘所有反对我的广播公司都应吊销执照’，政府内部会有许多官员抵制这种言论。但如今有了布伦丹·卡尔，他似乎找到了同样愿意执行此类行动的人。

This also seems like something that in the first Trump administration, there were a lot of government officials who, if Trump would say something like this, that all the broadcasters should have their licenses revoked because they're against me, There'll be people in the administration and in other government agencies that would push back on that and wouldn't go along with that. But now with Brendan Carr, he has someone who seems to be also just as willing to do something like that.

是的。我们讨论过这在FCC历史上是极其罕见的。布伦丹·卡尔信奉‘单一行政官’理论，认为FCC这类机构不应独立于总统。现在这位原属独立机构的负责人公开表示愿配合总统议程，这很能说明问题。

Yeah. We've talked about how this is, historically very unprecedented from the FCC. And, you know, Brendan Carr, if you talk to him, he's someone who has subscribed to this theory of the unitary executive, this idea that the executive branch should all basically be under the control of the president, that something like the FCC or the Fed is not actually an independent agency. And here, what we have is a person who runs one of these agencies that used to see itself as independent saying, I don't believe that. And I'm happy to work with the president, and I'm happy to carry out his agenda and figure out what I can do.

因评论查理·柯克之死而惹上麻烦的不止坎摩尔。《华尔街日报》报道称，许多人在网上发表相关言论后遭到解雇。

Kimmel isn't the only person to get in trouble at his job over making comments about Charlie Kirk's death. The Wall Street Journal has also reported that many people are being fired for making comments online.

我的报道多聚焦商业与华盛顿的交叉地带。今年以来，企业界迅速响应总统要求的速度令人惊讶——无论是配合政策还是就职典礼捐款。当前文化重塑之战已蔓延至高校、律所等领域，照此趋势，两年后美国面貌可能大不相同。

So a lot of my coverage has to do with this intersection between business and Washington. And since the start of the year, I've actually been quite surprised with the speed at which business has kind of fallen in line with things that the president asked or the speed with which people donated to Trump's inauguration. This is another iteration of that, another iteration of these kind of battles to remake American culture that we're seeing across the board. We're seeing them at universities, at law firms, and I wouldn't be surprised given the way things are going if the country looks very different two years from now as Trump finds other sectors that he wants to get involved in.

节目最后提醒：我们精彩的新系列《沼泽营地》第二集将于周日上线，首集已更新。今天是9月19日周五，本期报道由乔·弗林特、伊莎贝拉·西蒙内蒂和苏珊娜·维尼卡共同完成。《华尔街日报》播客由Spotify与华尔街日报联合制作。

Before we go, heads up that episode two of our new incredible series Camp Swamp Road is out on Sunday. The first episode is in our feed. That's all for today, Friday, September 19. Additional reporting in this episode by Joe Flint, Isabella Simonetti, and Suzanne Vernica. The Journal is a coproduction of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.

节目制作团队包括凯瑟琳·布鲁尔、皮娅·加德卡里、卡洛斯·加西亚、雷切尔·汉弗莱斯、索菲·科德纳、马特·邝、科林·麦克纳尔蒂、杰西卡·门多萨、安妮·米诺夫、劳拉·莫里斯、恩里克·佩雷斯·德拉罗莎、莎拉·普拉特、艾伦·罗德里格斯·埃斯皮诺萨、希瑟·罗杰斯、皮尔斯·辛吉、吉维卡·维尔马、丽莎·王、凯瑟琳·惠兰、塔蒂亚娜·扎米斯，以及我——瑞安·努森。音效由格里芬·坦纳、内森·辛加帕克和彼得·伦纳德负责。主题音乐来自So Wiley，本周配乐由凯瑟琳·安德森、彼得·伦纳德、鲍比·洛德、艾玛·芒格、格里芬·坦纳及Blue Dot Sessions创作。事实核查由凯特·加拉格尔完成。

The show is made by Katherine Brewer, Pia Gadkari, Carlos Garcia, Rachel Humphries, Sophie Codner, Matt Quong, Colin McNulty, Jessica Mendoza, Annie Minoff, Laura Morris, Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Sarah Platt, Alan Rodriguez Espinosa, Heather Rogers, Pierce Singhi, Jeevika Verma, Lisa Wang, Katherine Whelan, Tatiana Zamis, and me, Ryan Knutson. Our engineers are Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapak, and Peter Leonard. Our theme music is by So Wiley. Additional music this week from Katherine Anderson, Peter Leonard, Bobby Lord, Emma Munger, Griffin Tanner, and Blue Dot Sessions. Fact checking this week by Kate Gallagher.

感谢收听。周日见。

Thanks for listening. See you on Sunday.