英伟达CEO的中国芯片销售之旅

我们的同事魏玲玲是《华尔街日报》的首席中国记者。最近，她不得不学习很多关于科技的知识，特别是半导体芯片。

Our colleague Ling Ling Wei is the chief China correspondent for The Wall Street Journal. And lately, she's had to learn a lot about tech, specifically semiconductor chips.

我正在恶补芯片知识。说实话，我自己也真的被深深吸引住了。

I'm getting a crash course over chips. And seriously, I'm I'm I'm really fascinated myself.

尤其是，玲玲一直在报道一位科技CEO——黄仁勋。

In particular, Ling Ling has been reporting on one tech CEO, Jensen Huang.

黄仁勋是总部位于加州的芯片设计公司英伟达的CEO。英伟达目前是全球市值最高的公司，超过4万亿美元。

Jensen Huang is the CEO of NVIDIA, a California based chip designer. NVIDIA is the most valuable company in the whole world right now with the market capitalization of over $4,000,000,000,000.

英伟达的芯片为全球一些最大的人工智能模型提供动力。随着该公司在人工智能竞赛中变得越来越重要，它也发现自己处于美中之间紧张的贸易战中。玲玲表示，这为这位科技公司CEO带来了新的角色。

NVIDIA chips power some of the biggest AI models in the world. And as the company has become more important in the race for artificial intelligence, it's also found itself in the middle of a tense trade battle between The US and China. Lingling says that's meant a new role for the tech company's CEO.

多年来，黄仁勋基本上避开了华盛顿政治圈的纷争。他大多将游说这类棘手任务委托给一些关键下属。但这一情况在去年年底特朗普赢得大选后开始改变。

Huang, for many years, he had largely avoided the rough and tumble world of politics in Washington. He mostly delegated the messy task of lobbying to some of his key underlings. But that started to change after Trump won the election late last year.

黄仁勋一直忙于在华盛顿和北京之间进行游说。现在，他正在为公司争取一笔价值数十亿美元的重大交易。这笔交易可能会重塑企业与美国政府开展业务的方式，并将这位英伟达CEO转变为地缘政治中的重要角色。

Huang has been busy lobbying both Washington and Beijing. Now he's looking at a massive deal for his company worth billions of dollars. The deal could reshape how companies navigate business with the US government, and it's transformed the NVIDIA CEO into a major player in geopolitics.

如今，他基本上身兼双重角色：既是全球最具价值、最具影响力的科技公司之一的CEO，又是一种外交官，试图驾驭美中之间极其复杂的关系。

Nowadays, he's basically taking on this dual role as both the CEO of the most valuable, one of the most powerful tech companies in the whole world, and a diplomat of sorts, trying to navigate the very complex relationship between The US and China.

欢迎收听《The Journal》，我们的节目关注金钱、商业和权力。我是杰西卡·门多萨。今天是8月18日星期一。本期节目将讲述：黄仁勋在美中之间走钢丝，而他可能从中获利数十亿美元。

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Monday, August 18. Coming up on the show, Jensen Huang is walking a fine line between The US and China, and he stands to make billions.

本集节目由Indeed赞助播出。当你的冰箱坏了，你不会坐等所有食物变质。你会寻找解决方案。那么为什么要等待雇佣公司急需的人才呢？使用Indeed的赞助职位快速找到优秀人才。

This episode is brought to you by Indeed. When your fridge stops working, you don't sit around waiting for all your food to spoil. You find a solution. So why wait to hire the people your company desperately needs? Use Indeed sponsored jobs to find great talent fast.

它能将您的招聘信息置顶显示，让相关求职者一搜索就能最先看到。效果确实显著——根据Indeed数据，赞助职位的申请量比非赞助职位高出45%。而且赞助职位无需月费或长期合约，您只需为实际效果付费。

It moves your job post to the top of the page, so it's the first thing relevant candidates see when they start searching. And it truly does make a difference. Sponsored jobs receive 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs according to Indeed Data. Plus, with sponsored jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions or long term contracts. You're only paying for results.

无需再等待，立即通过Indeed加速招聘流程。本节目听众可领取75美元赞助职位信用额度，提升职位曝光度，请访问indeed.com/journal。现在就登录indeed.com/journal，并告知我们您通过本播客了解Indeed以支持节目。

There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/journal. That's indeed.com/journal right now. And support the show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.

indeed.com/journal。条款与条件适用。招人？Indeed就是您所需的一切。

Indeed.com/journal. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring? Indeed is all you need.

本节目由KPMG赞助播出。创造影响力是KPMG的核心使命。我们运用先进工具与战略思维，将数据转化为可执行洞见，通过转型提升绩效、技术驱动流程现代化、释放数据价值、驾驭复杂并购交易及增强利益相关方信任来创造价值。访问kpmg.us/advisory了解更多。KPMG。

This episode is brought to you by KPMG. Making an impact is how KPMG helps make the difference. KPMG applies advanced tools and strategic thinking to convert data into actionable knowledge and deliver value by improving performance through transformation, modernizing processes with technology, harnessing the power of data, navigating complex M and A transactions, and enhancing trust among stakeholders. Go to kpmg.us/advisory to learn more. KPMG.

创造改变的力量。

Make the difference.

当全球拥抱AI时，英伟达业务腾飞，但其关键市场中国却遭遇挫折。由于美国以国家安全为由限制对华销售先进计算芯片，黄仁勋近期在接受CNBC采访时谈及此事。

As the world embraces AI, NVIDIA's business has soared. But the company has faced setbacks in one of its key markets, China. That's because The US has restricted sales of advanced computer chips to China, citing national security concerns. Jensen Huang talked about this recently in a CNBC interview.

四年前英伟达在中国市场份额约95%，如今因产品销售限制已降至50%左右。

NVIDIA's market share in China was about ninety five percent four years ago. It's about 50% today because of the limitations on the products that we sell.

这些限制迫使英伟达另辟蹊径，专门设计可在中国销售的芯片。

The restrictions forced NVIDIA to get creative and design a chip that could be sold in China.

H20芯片是英伟达为符合美国现行出口管制而开发的低性能版本，虽无法用于创建ChatGPT等大型AI模型，但工程师普遍认为其仍擅长推理任务——即AI程序调用训练数据回答用户问题的能力。

The H20 chip was created by NVIDIA as kind of a less powerful chip, for the Chinese market to comply with existing US export controls. They're not the most advanced chips NVIDIA has. The H20 chips cannot be used for, for example, creating large AI models such as the ones powering ChatGPT and other chatbots. However, many engineers and experts say the chip is still good at inference. Basically, that's the kind of ability of AI programs to tap their training to answer user questions.

黄仁勋和英伟达专门开发这款芯片以符合美国法规，从而维持中国市场准入。那么白宫对H20这款产品是否满意呢？

And so the idea was Jensen Huang and NVIDIA built this chip specifically to comply with US regulations so that they could still access the Chinese market. Was the White House satisfied with the H20 as a product?

最初并非如此。今年四月，特朗普政府基本释放出信号，基于国家安全考虑将禁止向中国销售H20芯片。这引发了郑正黄（音）疯狂游说活动的开始。

Initially, were not. Back in April, the Trump administration basically sent out signals they were going to ban sales of H20 chips to China based on national security concerns. So that set off a frenetic lobbying effort attempt by Zheng Zheng Huang.

玲玲和其他记者采访了美中两国现任及前任官员，以及了解黄及其游说行动的人士。他们获悉黄曾在海湖庄园参加与总统共进的晚宴，每人花费百万美元。席间黄陈述了他的观点。

Lingling and other journal reporters spoke to current and former officials in both The US and China, and people familiar with Huang and his lobbying efforts. They learned that Huang attended a dinner with the president at Mar A Lago, which cost a million dollars per head. And at that dinner, Huang made his case.

他向总统表示，向中国出售H20芯片对国家安全的威胁不大。他还强调，切断中国获取美国技术的渠道只会加速中国本土芯片发展，长远来看将损害美国的技术领导地位——这是他论点的核心所在。

He told the president that selling the h 20 trip in China wasn't really a threat to national security. And he also said basically that cutting off China from US tech would only accelerate China's own domestic trip development, ultimately harming American leadership in the long run. That's his argument, the gist of his argument.

为促成交易，黄向特朗普提供了重大诱惑：承诺在美国人工智能基础设施领域投资5000亿美元。特朗普虽欢迎投资，但未在H20芯片禁令上松口，部分原因是另一位科技CEO提出了反对意见。

To sweeten the deal, Huang offered Trump a big incentive, a $500,000,000,000 investment in AI infrastructure in The United States. Trump welcomed the investment, but he still didn't budge on the h 20 chip ban. That's in part because there was another tech CEO making a counterpoint.

猜猜谁介入其中？正是当时仍与特朗普关系密切的埃隆·马斯克。马斯克提出反驳论点：即便是性能不及最先进水平的芯片，若落入中国手中仍可能威胁美国技术领导地位。持续向中国出售技术存在风险，中国未来或利用这些技术反制美国。这一观点加上国家安全官员的反对，最终促使特朗普实施了黄仁勋试图阻止的禁令。

Guess who intervened? It was Elon Musk, who at the time was still close to Trump. And Musk presented a counter argument, which was, you know, any trip, even though not as powerful as the most advanced trip in the Chinese hands could have threatened US technology leadership. If you keep selling American technology to China, that runs the risk of China potentially using the know how and products against America someday. And that view combined with opposition from national security minded officials persuaded Trump to impose the restriction Jensen Huang had tried to stop.

好的。那么特朗普最终还是禁止了H20芯片销售。但有没有迹象表明特朗普曾对黄的魅力攻势有所动摇？

Okay. So Trump did wind up banning the sale of the h 20 chip. But were there any hints at all that Trump was, like, warming to Huang's charm offensive?

毫无疑问。黄仁勋在建立与总统关系方面相当成功。根据报道，特朗普确实欣赏黄，认为他是所谓的'赢家'之一。

Absolutely. Jensen Huang really has been quite successful in terms of building a relationship with the president. Based on reporting, Trump really likes Huang and thinks that he's one of those, quote, winners.

七月，黄与其他科技CEO共同参加了华盛顿的AI峰会。特朗普发表主题演讲时，多次向台下就座的黄喊话。

In July, Huang, along with other tech CEOs, attended an AI summit in DC. Trump delivered a keynote address. And throughout his speech, he called out to Huang in the audience.

黄仁勋，能站起来吗？干得太棒了。伙计，你做得太出色了。

Jensen, will you stand up? What a job. What a job you've done. Man.

特朗普多次公开称赞黄仁勋。

Trump praised Huang several times.

他起初规模很小，如今已成长得令人惊叹。

He started as very small, and now he's really become very amazing.

因此他确实已将詹森视为赢家之一，并希望在政策事务及其他问题上向其咨询。

So he really has come to view Jensen as one of those winners and somebody he would like to consult with on policy matters and other issues.

最终，黄仁勋获得重大胜利。特朗普撤销了H20芯片在中国的销售禁令。这对英伟达是重大转机，其股价应声上涨，助力公司突破4万亿美元市值。

Eventually, Huang got his big win. Trump reversed the ban on sales of the H20 chip in China. It was a huge break for NVIDIA. Its stock immediately ticked up, helping the company crack a $4,000,000,000,000 valuation.

但仍存在一个障碍。

But there was still one hitch.

特朗普还有一项要求：他要抽取销售分成。英伟达及另一家获准在华销售芯片的公司，须将中国区芯片销售额的15%上缴美国政府。这一提案在特朗普执政时期有多不寻常？

Trump had one more demand. He wanted a cut of the sales. NVIDIA, and another chip company that was also given the go ahead to sell in China, will have to pay a 15% cut of their chip sales in China to the US government. How unusual is this proposal coming from the Trump administration?

15%的抽成引发两大担忧：首先是否合法？因2018年《出口管制法》明确规定不得对许可证（即出口许可证）申请收取费用；其次更令人警觉的是，许多专家警告这可能构成勒索形式——是否意味着国家安全正在被标价出售？

So the 15% cut sparks two major concerns. First, is it even legal? Because there is Export Control Act back in 2018 clearly states no fee may be charged in connection with any application for a license, meaning an export license. And the second issue here is potentially more alarmingly, many experts have warned that this could function as a form of extortion. So do you mean that national security is for sale now?

这是否暗示只要企业向美国政府支付足够金额，敏感技术就可出售给中国等竞争对手？该决定极具争议性，必然引发诸多法律与安全问题，我们将持续关注这项交易是否会面临司法挑战。

Does that suggest sensitive technology could be sold to a rival like China, provided the company makes a large enough payment to the US government? So it's been hugely controversial and definitely raising a bunch of legal and security questions. And we're going to see if this decision and this deal would be challenged in court.

我们是否知道这15%抽成的收益用途？

Do we have any idea what the revenue from this 15% cut might be going towards?

不清楚。

No idea.

好的。

Okay.

不知道。简单的回答。

No idea. Simple answer.

特朗普政府和英伟达均未公布协议细节。知情人士表示，金融架构中的许多细节仍需敲定。白宫发言人表示，总统经常与黄仁勋等商界领袖交谈。他补充说，引用原话，指导总统决策的唯一特殊利益就是美国人民的最大利益。黄仁勋花了数月时间与白宫谈判才达成这项协议，但赢得特朗普的支持只是成功了一半。

Neither the Trump administration nor NVIDIA have released details of the agreement. People close to them say many of the details in the financial structure still need to be worked out. A White House spokesman said that the president regularly talks to business leaders like Huang. He added, quote, the only special interest guiding the president's decision making is the best interest of the American people. It's taken months of negotiations with the White House for Huang to score this agreement, but winning over Trump was only half the battle.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

本期节目由洲际酒店集团旗下假日酒店赞助。对商务旅客而言，假日酒店迎来了焕新入住体验的新时代——配备现代化会议与办公空间，提供从早餐、欢乐时光到晚餐的美味餐饮，满足您高效完成工作的一切需求。为您的日常差旅升级体验。立即登录holidayinn.com预订您下一次商务出行。

This episode is brought to you by Holiday Inn by IHG. It's a new day for a new stay at Holiday Inn for business travelers With modern spaces for meeting and working, plus delicious dining from breakfast to happy hour and dinner, you have everything you need to get work done. Give your everyday business travel an upgrade. Book your next business trip at Holiday Inn by IHG. Visit holidayinn.com to book your stay.

本期节目由LifeLock赞助。当您就诊时，通常会提交保险卡、身份证和联系方式。这只是掌握您个人信息的众多场景之一。若其中任一环节意外泄露信息，您可能面临身份盗用风险。LifeLock每秒监控数百万数据节点。

This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. When you visit the doctor, you probably hand over your insurance, your ID, and contact details. It's just one of the many places that has your personal info. And if any of them accidentally expose it, you could be at risk for identity theft. LifeLock monitors millions of data points a second.

若您成为受害者，他们将负责解决并保证退款。首年最高可省40%，登录lifelock.com/podcast了解详情。条款适用。

If you become a victim, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year at lifelock.com/podcast. Terms apply.

美国贸易政策并非英伟达在华业务的唯一障碍。该公司还需说服北京官员为其芯片开辟通路。

US trade policy hasn't been the only roadblock for NVIDIA's business in China. NVIDIA has also had to convince officials in Beijing to clear a path for its chips.

黄仁勋今年至少三次访华，曾与包括经济领域最高负责人何立峰副总理在内的中国高层官员会晤。

Jensen, this year has made at least three trips to China. And he has met with very senior Chinese officials, including leader Xi Jinping's right hand man on the economy, vice premier He Li Feng.

英伟达在中国颇受欢迎，黄仁勋甚至有个绰号叫"魔法裁缝"。这源于他设计芯片的独特技艺——能在美国监管政策间游刃有余，如H20芯片。当特朗普同意解除对华销售禁令时，黄仁勋已身处北京。

NVIDIA is quite popular in China, and Huang even has a nickname there, the magic tailor. That's because of his unique skill at designing chips that managed to thread the needle of US regulations, like the h 20 chips. When Trump agreed to reverse the ban on selling those chips to China, Huang was already in Beijing.

黄仁勋亲自宣布美国政府决定解除H20对华销售禁令，并举行中外记者发布会。期间他极力盛赞中国的科技成就。

Jensen himself announced that the US government had decided to lift the ban on H20 sales to China. And he did press briefings with Chinese and Western reporters. And during those briefings, he really praised China's technological achievement to the skies.

你们在科学、数学和计算机科学领域资源丰富，这非常独特。因此整个生态系统充满活力，发展迅速。能来到这里我感到非常高兴。

You're rich with science and math and computer science and it's very unique. So the ecosystem is quite dynamic, it's moving very fast. I'm just very happy to be here.

同时，他对美国政策的批评听起来非常尖锐。这在华盛顿许多人中反响不佳，但中国人很喜欢他。

And at the same time, sounded very critical of The US policy. So that wasn't received very well by many people in Washington, but the Chinese loved him.

听起来黄仁勋必须走一条非常微妙的路线，既要确保不会过度得罪中国或美国，又要能迎合双方，说他们想听的话。

It sounds like Huang Jensen Huang has to walk a really fine line to make sure that he doesn't upset either China or The US too much, but also is able to sort of cater to each side so that he's telling them what they wanna hear.

是的。这不仅是走钢丝，而且脚下还是流沙，对吧？因为美中两国的政策不断变化。你根本不知道什么时候会突然转向。所以对黄仁勋来说，这绝对是高风险的努力。

Yes. It's a super tightrope, and not only tightrope, but shifting sand too, right? Because policies keep changing in both The US and China. You really don't know when things will just turn on a dime. So, you know, it's definitely a very high stakes effort for Huang.

黄仁勋在中国的努力似乎正在见效。中国政府暂停了去年底对英伟达发起的反垄断调查。北京还批准了一项涉及美国芯片软件制造商、价值350亿美元的交易，该交易此前已被搁置一年。但再次出现了波折——玲玲表示北京这些举动附带条件。

Huang's efforts with the Chinese seem to be paying off. The Chinese government has paused an antitrust probe that had opened into NVIDIA late last year. Beijing also approved a $35,000,000,000 deal involving US chip software makers that had been held up for the last year. But once again, there's a hitch. Lingling says these moves by Beijing come with strings attached.

深知中国市场对英伟达的重要性，中国也加大了对该公司的施压。他们希望黄仁勋继续游说华盛顿放宽出口管制，继续向国会进行游说。

Knowing the importance of the Chinese market to NVIDIA, China has also increased pressure on the company. They want Huang to keep lobbying Washington for loosened export controls, to keep lobbying Congress.

中国人还想要什么？他已经表示会放宽H20芯片的销售限制了。

What else do the Chinese want? I mean, already said he'll ease up on the H20 chip sales.

华盛顿有项提案要求为销往海外的高端芯片添加追踪功能。中国不喜欢这个主意。他们知道黄仁勋和美国科技界其他人曾游说反对该法案，但仍认为法案有可能通过，所以正在加大对黄仁勋等美国科技公司的压力，希望这些游说能阻止法案通过。

There is some proposed legislation in Washington to require tracking capabilities for advanced chips sold abroad. China doesn't like that idea. And China knows that Huang and others in the tech industry in The United States have lobbied against that bill. But they still do believe that the bill has a chance of passing, so they're amping up the pressure on Jameson Huang and other, you know, tech companies in The United States and hoping that those lobbying efforts could help kill the bill.

国会关于用芯片追踪中国动向的讨论已引起北京警觉。上月中国监管部门召见黄仁勋，询问H20芯片是否存在安全隐患。

All this talk in Congress about using chips to track what China is up to has started to raise suspicions in Beijing. Last month, Chinese regulators called Huang to find out whether the H20 chips could be compromised.

中国非常担心英伟达H20芯片可能含有所谓后门，他们认为这可能导致芯片被追踪、定位甚至远程禁用。他们害怕依赖存在此类漏洞的美国芯片会危及中国数据和关键基础设施安全。

The Chinese are really worried that NVIDIA's H20 chips could contain so called backdoors, which basically in their views could allow for tracking, locating, and even remotely disabling the trips. And the fear is that reliance on US made trips with such vulnerabilities could compromise the security of China's data and critical infrastructure.

英伟达发言人表示，公司芯片中不存在可供任何人远程访问或控制的后门，并称网络安全至关重要。英伟达、特朗普和中国似乎都对解除H20销售禁令的协议感到满意。中国获得了英伟达芯片的采购渠道，英伟达得以继续与中国开展业务，而特朗普政府则从销售额中分得一杯羹。但玲玲认为，从全局来看，中国才是此次事件的最大赢家。

An NVIDIA spokesperson said the company does not have backdoors in its chips that would give anyone a remote way to access or control them, calling cybersecurity critically important. NVIDIA, Trump, and China all seem satisfied with the deal to lift the ban on h 20 sales. China gets access to NVIDIA's chips, NVIDIA gets to do business with China, and the Trump administration gets a cut of the sales. But in the grand scheme of things, Lingling says there's a case to be made that China is the biggest winner here.

H20禁令的撤销确实是美国政策的分水岭，因为在禁令撤销前，出口管制曾是毫无商量余地的铁律。如今人们说旧规则已被抛弃，中方得以就出口管制问题与美国谈判，这为中国未来与美政府谈判提供了强有力的筹码。

This h 20 ban reversal really is a watershed moment in US policy because up until the H20 ban reversal, export controls were not something that was negotiable. And now people say the old playbook is out of the window. The Chinese now get to negotiate with The US over export controls. And that gives China a powerful lever in future negotiations with the US government.

那黄仁勋呢？要知道他始终处于这场风暴中心。此时此刻对他意味着什么？

And what about Jensen Huang? You know, he's been at the center of all of this. What does this moment mean for him?

这整场风波表明，像黄仁勋这样的企业领袖在复杂局势中航行变得多么危机四伏——既要维护中国关键市场的经济利益，又要应对美国国家安全考量。如今担任美国大型科技公司的CEO，不仅需要专注创新和股东价值，还要能执行高风险的外交任务。目前黄仁勋虽占上风，但在对华技术销售审查日益严格的背景下，他能否持续获胜？这才是真正的关键问题。

This whole saga, it just shows how treacherous it has become for corporate leaders like Huang himself to navigate such a complex landscape where economic interests in the crucial Chinese market come into conflict with US national security concerns. Being the CEO of a major American tech company is no longer just about focusing on innovation and shareholder value. It's also about being able to conduct high stakes diplomatic tasks. For now, Huang is winning, but can he keep winning, especially given the heightened scrutiny over tech sales to China? That's really the big question.

今天是8月18日星期一，本期节目到此结束。《华尔街日报》播客由Spotify与《华尔街日报》联合制作。本期节目补充报道来自黄伟伦、阿姆里特·拉姆库马尔和拉维·惠兰。感谢收听，明天见。

That's all for today, Monday, August 18. The Journal is a coproduction of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Rafael Huang, Amrit Ramkumar, and Ravi Whelan. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.