第8集 | 非同寻常的嫌疑人

我做到了。

I did.

我举办过一场派对。

I threw one party.

我从未公开谈论过这些事情，从未。

I have never talked about these things publicly, ever.

关于那所房子里发生的一切，我都觉得必须保密，永远不能对任何人提起。

And everything about what was happening in that house was something I felt I had to keep to myself and to keep private and never ever ever talk about to anybody.

我当时正在谈判一件事，我记得看到了自己。

I was negotiating something, and I remember seeing myself.

我记得把电话从耳边拿开，它掉到了地上。

And I remembered dropping the phone out of my ear, and it fell on the floor.

我记得对自己说，如果我继续这样下去，我最终会坐在酒吧高脚凳上说：‘本该是我。’

And I remember thinking to myself, if I keep this up, I'm gonna end up on a barstool saying, it should have been me.

我把香烟和那杯啤酒放下了。

And I put the cigarette down and that beer.

我把那杯啤酒放下了，之后八年我再也没有喝酒、吸烟或使用任何娱乐性药物。

And I put that beer down, and I did not drink or smoke or do any recreational drugs for eight years.

欢迎收看Filtered频道对凯文·斯佩西审判的报道。

Welcome to the Kevin Spacey trial on Filtered.

这是第八集。

This is episode eight.

凯文·斯佩西发言。

Kevin Spacey speaks.

我叫安·麦克埃尔亨尼。

My name is Anne McElhenny.

请把椅子拉到麦克风前。

Pull your chair up to the mic.

能否请报出您的姓名，并拼出您的姓氏以供记录？

If you can please state your name and spell your last name for the record.

凯文·斯佩西·福勒，F-O-W-L-E-R。

Kevin Spacey Fowler, F O W L E R.

你可以开始了，先生。

You may proceed, Mr.

斯科尔尼克。

Skolnick.

谢谢，法官大人。

Thank you, Your Honor.

在对凯文·斯帕西·福勒的审判中，到了被告出庭作证的时候。

The time had come in the trial of Kevin Spacey Fowler for the defendant to take the stand.

在某些方面，每个人都知道凯文·斯帕西会说什么。

In some ways, everyone knew what Kevin Spacey was going to say.

他否认了这项指控。

He was pleading not liable to the charge.

对吧？

Right?

但对于陪审团来说，他的证词不仅关乎他说了什么，也关乎他是怎么说的。

But for the jury, his testimony wasn't going to be just about what he said, also about how he said it.

他必须显得诚实且富有同情心，甚至要超过安东尼·拉普。

He had to appear honest and sympathetic, more so than Anthony Rapp.

陪审团成员可能通过他饰演的反派角色认识他，但他必须打破这种表象，以一个被冤枉的人的身份与他们对话。

Members of the jury would probably know him through his villainous roles, but he had to break through that veneer and speak to them as a person unjustly accused.

斯帕西的律师蔡斯·斯科尼克立即通过第一个问题澄清了事实。

Spacey's lawyer, Chase Skolnick, cleared the air immediately with his first question to the defendant.

以下是对他们对话的重现，内容基于真实的法庭记录。

What follows are reenactments of their exchanges using actual court transcripts.

早上好，斯帕西先生。

Good morning, mister Spacey.

早上好。

Good morning.

拉普先生指控您在1986年将他抱起并放在床上。

Now mister Rapp has accused you of picking him up and placing him on a bed in 1986.

这些指控属实吗？

Are those allegations true?

这些都不是真的。

They are not true.

在拉普作证期间，他的律师向他提出了简单的问题，让他以冗长详尽的方式回答，以表明他是个神童，而早年的天赋显然因太空里的袭击而被毁。

During Rapp's testimony, his lawyers asked him easy questions that he could answer in meandering detail to show he was a child prodigy whose early promise was apparently destroyed by Spacey's assault.

太空里的律师对他们的当事人采取了不同的策略。

Spacey's lawyers had a different approach to their client.

他的职业生涯本身就说明了一切。

His career spoke for itself.

他们需要展示的是关于太空里生活中那些无人知晓的部分。

What they needed to show were the parts of Spacey's life that no one knew about.

这位极度低调的人几十年来一直保持沉默的那些方面。

That this deeply private man had left unspoken for decades.

他们让他谈起了自己功能失调的童年。

They got him talking about his dysfunctional childhood.

太空里的回答为他极度的隐私提供了一种新的解读。

Species' answers cast a new light on his intense privacy.

拉普先生批评你过于封闭，称这种行为是躲在柜子里。

Mister Rapp has criticized you for being so private, and he's called that living in the closet.

这种隐私是否也延伸到了你性取向之外的其他方面？

Has that privacy extended to matters beyond your sexual orientation?

是的。

Yes.

确实如此。

It has.

你对童年也一直保持低调吗？

Have you been private about your childhood as well?

是的。

Yes.

我一直如此。

I have.

为什么？

Why?

我成长在一个非常复杂家庭环境中。

Well, I grew up in a very complicated family dynamic.

我父亲很长时间都处于失业状态，因此他大部分时间都在家。

My father was unemployed a great deal of the time, so therefore, was home a lot of the time.

我们搬过很多次家。

We moved many, many different times.

在父亲失业期间，以及他试图寻找自己为何无法实现成为创意作家这一职业目标的过程中，他接触了一些观念和一些人，我认为这些损害了他的心智与感知能力。

And over the course of my father's unemployment and the reasons he was trying to find why he was unsuccessful in the business he wanted to be in, which was to be a creative writer, my father fell in with some ideas and some people that I believe damaged his mind and his sensibility.

我父亲是一个白人至上主义者和新纳粹分子。

And my father was a white supremacist and a neo Nazi.

这对你童年产生了怎样的影响？

How is it that that impacted you as a child?

首先，

Well, first of all,

这意味着我和我的兄弟姐妹被迫听父亲几个小时、几个小时地宣讲他的信仰和观点，正是这些宣讲让我对偏见和不容忍产生了最初的憎恶。

it meant that my siblings and I were forced to listen to hours and hours and hours of my father lecturing his about his beliefs and his ideas, and it was these lectures that my hatred of bigotry and intolerance really first began.

但与此同时，我根本不敢带朋友回家，因为害怕父亲会对他们说什么，更怕朋友们因此对我产生看法。

But at the same time, it was humiliating and terrifying to even consider bringing my friends home to my house because I was terrified of what my father might say to them and then what my friends might think of me because of what my father might say.

我曾经亲眼见过他对客人这样。

And I had seen him do this with guests.

所以，我高中时最好的朋友是个犹太人，直到今天他仍然是我非常好的朋友，但我不能带他来我家。

So my best friend in high school, who was Jewish, who is still a great friend of mine to this day, I couldn't bring him to my house.

家里发生的一切，我都觉得必须藏在心里，绝对不能对任何人提起。

And everything about what was happening in that house was something I felt I had to keep to myself and to keep private and never ever ever talk about to anybody.

对你来说，谈论这些事很难吗？

Is it difficult for you

现在谈论这些事很难吗？

to talk about these things now?

我从未在公共场合谈论过这些事。

I have never talked about these things publicly ever.

尽管在这种压抑的环境中，凯文·史派西的母亲仍培养了他对表演的热爱。

Despite this repressive environment, Spacey's mother nurtured his love of performance.

你是什么时候对表演产生兴趣的？

When did you develop an interest in acting?

我觉得从很小的时候就开始了。

I think from when I was very young.

我小时候很害羞，但很幸运的是，我母亲热爱电影和音乐。

I was shy as a kid, but I was fortunate that my mother loved movies and music.

因此，我接触到了三四十年代和五十年代的那一代电影明星，以及那些伟大的音乐。

And so I was introduced to a sort of different generation of movie stars from the thirties and forties and fifties, and the sort of great music.

所以我认为，我最初发现自己喜欢表演，是因为我发现我有模仿的天赋，能学会模仿我母亲最喜欢的演员和他们的声音。

So I think I first discovered that I liked performing because I found out I had an ear for impressions, and I could learn how to do some of my mother's favorite actors and their voices.

因此，由于我家里的环境，听到母亲笑是我听过最美好的声音之一。

So for me, because of the situation in my house, being able to hear my mother laugh was one of the greatest sounds I ever heard.

所以我觉得，我最初的感受就是：我能逗母亲笑。

So I think that was my initial feeling, was I could make my mother laugh.

那是一种表演的形式。

And that was a form of performance.

童年塑造了一个人生活的几乎每一个方面。

Childhood shapes nearly every aspect of a person's life.

还记得说唱音乐如何贬低空间西和其他被怀疑是同性恋却仍藏在柜子里的演员吗？

Remember how rap disparaged Spacey and other suspected gay actors who remained in the closet.

也许空间西保守性取向隐私的原因，与其说是害怕职业报复，不如说与他的成长经历有关。

Maybe Spacey's reasons for keeping his sexuality private had less to do with fear of professional reprisal and more to do with his upbringing.

在2017年10月之前，你有没有向任何媒体或记者透露过你是同性恋？

Before October 2017, had you told any media outlet or reporter that you were gay?

没有。

No.

为什么？

Why not?

正如我所说，我小时候成长的环境让我很难开口谈论这些事。

As I said, I had grown up in a as a child where I wasn't comfortable talking about things.

而其中一部分原因是我父亲也常因我对戏剧感兴趣而冲我大喊，觉得我可能是个同性恋，他并不支持我走这条路。

And part of those things that were my father also used to, yell at me about the idea that I might be gay because I was interested in theater, and he didn't encourage me in that way.

所以我父亲会对我大喊大叫，别当一个……他会用一个对同性恋群体极为侮辱的词。

So my father would scream at me, don't be a and he would use an f word that is very derogatory to the gay community.

我不会在这里的法庭上说出那个词，但那时我刚开始探索自己的性取向，这让我感到非常不安。

I won't say it here in court, but it was very disturbing for me as I was just beginning to discover my own feelings about sexuality.

随着我继续生活，我认为我确实感到某种程度的羞耻，但我也希望人们记住我扮演的角色，而不是过多地了解我本人。

And as I continued in my life, I think I just I certainly had a degree of shame, but I think also because I wanted people to remember the characters that I played and not to know too much about me.

我想我花了不少时间强调，我不希望人们过多地了解我。

I think I spent quite a bit of time actually talking about that I didn't want people to know too much about me.

我希望人们记住的是角色，而不是我本人。

I wanted people to remember characters and not remember me.

所以我的理由就是，我在保护我的作品。

So that was my reasoning, was that I was protecting the work.

但我想，很长一段时间以来，我一直在面对许多复杂而艰难的问题，关于是否要分享自己最私密的部分。

But I think that I was going through as many complicated and difficult questions about the idea of sharing the most intimate part of myself for a very long time.

现在，我们在庭审中听到了一些提及，有文章引用了Wrap先生的话，称我因为没有更早出柜而是个骗子。

Now we've heard references in this trial to certain articles in which mister Wrap is quoted calling you a fraud for not coming out of the closet sooner.

你对此有何回应？

How do you respond to that?

我认为我曾经

I think that I've

法官，我反对这个问题。

Judge, I object to the question.

驳回。

Overruled.

我认为我听过多位LGBTQ+社群领袖的发言，他们说我们必须对每个人出柜的过程抱有同理心、理解和同情。

I think that I've listened to so many leaders in the LGBTQ plus community about how we have to have empathy, and we have to have understanding, and we have to have compassion for everyone's process of coming out.

因此，我认为称某人为骗子，大概是说你觉得他们活在谎言中。

And so I think that to call someone a fraud is to, I guess, say that you think they are living a lie.

我没有活在谎言中。

I wasn't living a lie.

我只是不愿意谈论我的私人生活。

I was just reluctant to talk about my personal life.

我一生中曾与女性有过关系，这些关系对我意义重大，都是真实的情感联系。

And I had had relationships with women in my life that meant an enormous amount to me that were genuine relationships.

拉普斯先生也谈到了他与女性的关系，因此我不明白他凭什么说我是骗子。

Mister Rapps talked about having relationships with women as well, and so I don't know on what basis he was saying that I was a fraud.

很明显，他很生气。

I think clear that he was angry.

我当时还没有出柜。

I wasn't out.

但我要提出异议。

But Objection.

驳回。

Overruled.

但这是我的选择。

But it was my choice.

即使在政治上有人不认同，我们也必须尊重这是一个非常艰难的过程。

And even though, politically, someone may not agree with it, we have to respect that it's a very difficult process.

这对我来说很困难，因为当关于我的谣言开始流传、媒体和人们开始提问时，我已经非常有名了。

And it was difficult for me because by the time rumors started about me and sort of the media and people asking questions, I was very well known.

因此，考虑出柜以及其后果对我来说非常复杂，而那时的环境与现在截然不同。

And so it was very complicated for me to think about coming out and the consequences of that, which were at a very different time than we are now.

你指的是关于你是同性恋的谣言。

You're referring to rumors about you being gay.

对吗？

Correct?

是的。

Yes.

斯派西讲述了他如何搬到纽约进入朱莉亚德学院，但一年后退学，因为他想表演，而不是学习。

Spacey told how he moved to New York to go to Juilliard, but dropped out after a year because he wanted to act, not study.

他最早的角色之一是在公共剧院出演的《公园里的莎士比亚》中《亨利四世》的演出。

One of his first roles was in the public theater in the Shakespeare in the Park production of Henry the fourth.

正是在这一时期，安德鲁·霍尔茨曼称斯派西性侵了他。

It was during this time, Andrew Holtzman said Spacey assaulted him.

斯佩西否认了这次袭击。

Spacey denied the attack.

现在，霍尔茨曼先生指控你进入他的办公室并对他进行猥亵。

Now mister Holtzman has accused you of going into his office and groping him.

你有没有猥亵或抓挠过霍尔茨曼先生？

Did you ever grope or grab mister Holtzman?

我没有。

I did not.

你有没有把他扔到桌子上？

Did you ever throw him on a desk?

我没有。

I did not.

1981年的时候，你出柜了吗？

Were you out of the closet in 1981?

没有。

No.

我不是。

I was not.

你是否

Did you

希望你的同事知道你是同性恋？

want your colleagues to know that you were gay?

不。

No.

我没有。

I did not.

为什么？

Why not?

我的意思是，首先，我甚至都不完全确定自己是什么样的人。

Well, I mean, in the first place, I wasn't even entirely sure what I was.

我当时在试图弄清楚自己是谁，但除非感觉到和别人之间有某种相互的互动，否则我根本不会感到自在，而那时我或许会有某种经历。

I was trying to figure out what I was, but I certainly wasn't comfortable except if I felt there was something mutual happening with somebody else, and I might have an experience.

但我并没有谈论那些事情。

But I wasn't there weren't things I was talking about.

我根本没有去同性恋酒吧。

I wasn't, like, going to a gay bar.

我太害怕了，不敢做这种事。

I was too terrified to do such a thing.

斯佩西向陪审团讲述了，他在巴尔的摩的那个储藏仓库里待了多日后，找到了那场演出的原始节目单。

Spacey told the jury how, after spending many days in that storage warehouse in Baltimore, he had found the original playbill from the performance.

上面没有他的照片。

His photograph was not on it.

这摧毁了霍尔茨曼声称自己从这份节目单上认出他的说法。

This destroyed Holtzman's claim to have recognized him from that playbill.

他还描述了，正如霍尔茨曼所声称的那样，他们两人不可能再没有碰面。

He also described how it would have been impossible for the two of them not to have run into each other again, as Holtzman had claimed.

现在，霍尔茨曼先生作证说，他自1981年后再也没有在公共剧院见过你。

Now mister Holzman testified that he never saw you at the public theater after the 1981.

您认为这一陈述是准确的吗？

Do you believe that statement is accurate?

这不可能。

That would be impossible.

1981年夏天之后，您去过公共剧院吗？

Were you at the public theater after 1981, the summer?

是的。

Yes.

我去过。

I was.

1981年之后，您在公共剧院做什么？

What were you doing at the public theater after the 1981?

我从事了一系列行政工作，这些工作始于九月底或十月初，一直持续到至少1982年5月。

I was working in a series of administrative jobs that I started either late September or early October, and that lasted until at least the May 1982.

我们现在听到霍尔茨曼先生作证说，他经常进出帕普先生的办公室。

Now we heard mister Holtzman testify that he was in and out of mister Papp's office all the time.

你曾经在帕普先生的办公室工作过吗？

Did you ever work in mister Papp's office?

是的。

Yes.

我的意思是，我那里没有办公桌，但如果有事需要我去做，我确实会在帕普先生的办公室工作。

I mean, I didn't have a desk there, but if there was something they needed me to do, yes, I would be working in mister Papp's office.

斯佩西先生，剧院的演员和员工是否经常进出帕普先生的办公室？

Mister Spacey, would actors and employees of the public theater come in and out of mister Papp's office regularly?

是的。

Yes.

这包括霍尔茨曼先生吗？

Would that include mister Holtzman?

是的。

Yes.

你有没有在帕普先生的办公室见过霍尔茨曼先生？

Did you see mister Holtzman in mister Papp's office?

是的。

Yes.

他看起来看到你了吗？

Did it appear he saw you?

是的。

Yes.

斯派西被详细询问了他在公共剧院工作期间与安德鲁·霍尔茨曼见面的每一次情况。

Spacey was questioned at length about all the times he had met Andrew Holtzman whilst working at the public theater.

记住，霍尔茨曼说他在 alleged 袭击前后从未见过斯派西。

Remember, Holtzman said he had never seen Spacey before or after the alleged assault.

公共剧院会放映电影吗？

Did the public show films?

有放映活动吗？

Were there screenings?

是的。

Yes.

公共剧院里有一个放映厅。

There was a screening theater in the public theater.

你去过那些放映会吗？

Did you ever go to any of those screenings?

我去过。

I did.

公共剧院有哪些具体员工负责组织这些放映会？

And which specific employees of the public would put those screenings on?

除了负责管理和策划影片的法比阿诺·卡诺萨之外，公共剧院还有一个叫霍尔茨曼先生的人。

Well, in addition to Fabiano Canosa, who ran and programmed the films, there was also a man named mister Holtzman at the public program.

你去了多少场这样的放映会？

And how many of those screenings, if any, did you go to?

我的记忆可能不太准确，但我记得可能去了四场。

I mean, I think it's not completely accurate in my brain, but I think maybe I went to four

场。

of them.

你在那些放映会上见过霍尔茨曼先生吗？

Did you see mister Holtzman at those screenings?

是的。

Yes.

他看起来有看到你吗？

Did it appear that he saw you?

是的。

Yes.

而且，

And, of

当然，斯佩西作为斯佩西，有照片和文章显示他当时是那栋楼的常客。

course, Spacey being Spacey, he had photos and articles showing he was a regular fixture in the building at the time.

他甚至会把邮件寄到公共影院。

He would even get his mail delivered to the public.

他仍然保留着从巴尔的摩仓库箱子里取出的信封和信件。

He still had the envelopes and letters retrieved from boxes in that warehouse in Baltimore.

简而言之，陪审团毫不怀疑，霍尔茨曼在袭击前后都见过斯佩西，这与他提供的证词相反。

In short, the jury was left with no doubt that Holtzman would have seen Spacey before and after the assault, contrary to the evidence he gave.

这个故事中的几乎所有细节都站不住脚。

Almost nothing about the story checked out.

接着，焦点转向了安东尼·拉普的指控，时间回到1986年5月。

Then it was on to Anthony Rapp's allegations, back to May 1986.

珍妮弗·凯勒在交叉询问拉普时，已经解释了斯佩西是如何与两名仍未成年的人共进晚餐并去俱乐部的。

Jennifer Keller had already explained how Spacey wound up going to dinner and a club with two people still in their teens when she cross examined rap.

她告诉陪审团，成年的约翰·巴曼与斯佩西一见如故，这种相互吸引成为后续事件的导火索。

John Barman, who was an adult, hit it off with Spacey, and that mutual attraction was a catalyst for what followed, she told the jury.

这并非如拉普和《BuzzFeed新闻》此前暗示的那样，是斯佩西从人群中挑选未成年男孩共度一夜。

It was not, as rap and BuzzFeed News previously implied, a case of Spacey picking underage boys from the crowd for a night out.

你见到拉普先生那天，对他有什么印象吗？如果你还记得的话？

What was your impression of Mr.

你见到拉普先生那天，对他有什么印象吗？如果你还记得的话？

Rapp when you met him that day, if you remember?

我没留下什么深刻印象。

I it didn't make a big impression.

他只是剧里一个孩子。

He was a kid in a play.

这就是我的记忆。

That's what I remember.

那您对巴罗曼先生的印象如何？

And what was your impression of mister Barrowman?

我对巴罗曼先生印象非常好。

I was very impressed with mister Barrowman.

为什么？

Why?

他非常英俊。

He was very handsome.

他很有魅力。

He was charming.

他很有幽默感。

He had a sense of humor.

是的。

Yeah.

我被约翰·巴罗曼深深吸引住了。

I was quite captivated by John Beroman.

在你看来，拉普先生和巴罗曼先生之间的年龄差距有多大？

What was the apparent age difference between mister Rapp and mister Beroman to you?

我当时并不太清楚，但安东尼·拉普看起来像个孩子，而约翰·巴罗曼则像个成年人。

I didn't really know at that point, but Anthony Rapp seemed like a kid, and John Barrowman seemed like a man.

巴罗曼回忆的关于那个夜晚的每一件事，斯佩西都证实了。

Everything Barrowman recalled about that night, Spacey confirmed.

他们在俱乐部跳舞，回到公寓看狗，并在拉普离开时在床上共度了一刻。

They danced at the club, went back to the apartment to see the dog, and shared a moment on the bed during Rapp's absence.

他和巴罗曼一定交换过联系方式，因为两人都说之后一直保持松散的联系。

He and Barrowman must have exchanged contact information since they both said they stayed in loose communication afterward.

Spacey不记得几天后邀请Rapp参加聚会。

Spacey didn't remember inviting Rap to a gathering a few days later.

如果Spacey在午夜举办派对显得奇怪，那是因为这确实很奇怪。

If it had seemed weird that Spacey was hosting parties at midnight, that's because it was weird.

他说，那件事没有发生。

It didn't happen, he said.

他详细描述了自己下班后的例行程序，通常要到11:45才能到家。

He detailed every part of his post work ritual, which usually didn't see him getting home until 11:45.

他从不习惯在那个时间点，或者 вообще 邀请别人来家里。

He wasn't in the habit of having people over at that hour or really at all.

1986年，我们在37D看到的，你曾在你的公寓举办过派对吗？

Did you throw any parties at your apartment that we saw there, 37 D, in 1986?

我举办过。

I did.

我办过一次派对。

I threw one party.

跟我们说说那次聚会。

Tell us about that.

嗯，我搬进公寓的时候是1月15日，然后在1月25日办了一场乔迁派对。

Well, when I moved into the apartment, I moved in on January 15, and then I had a housewarming party on the January 25.

那是我在那个公寓里办过的唯一一场派对。

That was the only party I ever had in that apartment.

1986年5月，你在那个公寓里办过派对吗？

Did you throw any parties in May 1986 at that apartment?

没有。

No.

我没办过。

I did not.

他还证实了，除了拉普之外，所有人都表示公寓是一个没有卧室门的单间。

He also confirmed, as did everyone except Rap, that the apartment was a studio with no bedroom door.

太空西也否定了拉普的说法，即他在所谓袭击当晚喝醉了，称自己是在该剧在纽约演出结束后才开始大量饮酒的。

Spacey also refuted Rap's claim that he was drunk the night of the alleged assault, claiming that he didn't start drinking heavily until after the play had finished its New York run.

他的回答清楚地说明了为什么在他的草稿陈述中，他打算把记忆缺失归咎于酗酒和吸毒。

His answers make it clear why in one of his draft statements he was going to blame his lack of memory on heavy drinking and drug use.

但那只是因为亚当·瓦里的邮件没有说明1986年那次性侵事件具体发生在什么时候。

But that was only because Adam Vary's email didn't say at what point in 1986 the assault allegedly occurred.

1986年的时候，你有没有开始更频繁地饮酒？

Did there come a point in 1986 when you started drinking more heavily?

是的。

Yes.

跟我们说说具体情况。

Tell us about that.

当我们带着演出离开纽约后，我们去了以色列，在特拉维夫演出了两周。

Well, when we left New York with production, we traveled to Israel, and we performed for two weeks in Tel Aviv.

然后我们把演出搬到了伦敦，在一家叫海马克特的剧院演出，我想大概有四个月，也许是三个半月。

And then we moved the production to London, and we played a theater there called the Haymarket for, I think, almost four months, maybe three and a half months.

我记不清了。

I can't remember.

你知道吗，我是个来自新泽西的人，在伦敦演戏简直太棒了。

And, you know, I'm a guy from New Jersey, and being in London doing a play was incredible.

到那时，我对这部剧已经更加适应了。

And I was much more comfortable with the play by that point.

我们现在已经连续演出很长时间了。

We were performing it for a lengthy period of time now.

我感觉更有信心了，而且结识了各种我从未见过的人，还有我仰慕的演员。

I felt more confident, and I was being introduced to all kinds of people I had never met and actors I admired.

我还被带去各种地方、餐厅、酒吧和俱乐部。

And I was being taken out to places and restaurants and bars and clubs.

我想，在伦敦演出的后半段，我开始比在纽约时更放纵地参与一些过度的娱乐活动。

And I think that during, I would say, the latter part of the run-in London, I started to indulge in a little more excessive recreational playtime than I had when we were in New York.

你提到了这段大量饮酒和使用某些药物的时期。

You referenced this period of heavy drinking and using some drugs.

这种情况持续了多久？

How long did that last?

这种情况一直持续到了1987年。

It went into deeply went into 1987.

就在1987年左右，我接到一个电视剧的邀约，我记得当时正和经纪人通电话，手里拿着一支香烟和一杯啤酒，那时才早上九点半。

It was toward the 1987 that I I got offered a television series, and I I remember the moment that I was on the phone with my manager, and I had a cigarette in my hand and a beer, and it was 09:30 in the morning.

我记得自己正在谈事情，突然看到了镜中的自己。

And I remember I was negotiating something, and I remember seeing myself.

我记得把电话从耳边拿开，它掉到了地上。

And I remembered dropping the phone out of my ear, and it fell on the floor.

我当时心想，如果继续这样下去，我迟早会坐在酒吧的高脚凳上，说：‘本该是我。’

And I remember thinking to myself, if I keep this up, I'm gonna end up on a barstool saying, it should have been me.

于是我放下了香烟和那杯啤酒，此后八年我再也没有喝过酒、抽过烟，也没有使用任何娱乐性毒品。

And I put the cigarette down and that beer, and I put that beer down, and I did not drink or smoke or do any recreational drugs for eight years.

斯科爾尼克就他针对BuzzFeed文章所发表的声明，对他进行了多次质询。

Skolnick questioned him a lot about the statement he put out in response to the BuzzFeed article.

在那份声明中，斯帕西似乎对某件他如今坚决否认发生过的事，做出了有条件道歉。

In it, Spacey seemed to conditionally apologize for something he now vigorously claimed did not happen.

在早期的草稿中，他直接道歉，并将记忆缺失归咎于酗酒。

In earlier drafts, he outright apologized and blamed his lack of memory on heavy drinking.

他的律师希望陪审团将其视为巨大压力和混乱下的产物，而非道歉。

His lawyers wanted the jury to see it not as an apology, but as the product of the enormous pressure and confusion that surrounded its writing.

提醒一下，斯派西回应的是亚当·瓦里和BuzzFeed新闻发来的一封故意含糊的邮件，该邮件并未指明袭击 allegedly 发生的时间或城市。

As a reminder, Specy was responding to a deliberately vague email from Adam Varry and BuzzFeed News, which didn't specify the time of year or the city where the assault was alleged to have taken place.

你在邮件末尾写道：‘我希望并祈祷，我能为三十多年前的这一可怕时刻获得原谅。’

You wrote that at the bottom of the email, I hope and I pray that I can be forgiven for such an appalling moment over thirty years ago.

斯派西先生，如果您认为这些指控并不真实，为什么要在邮件中加入这句话？

Mister Spacey, why did you include that in your email if you did not think these allegations were true?

我当时被鼓励去道歉，但我学到了一课：永远不要为没做过的事道歉。

I was being encouraged to apologize, and I've learned a lesson, which is never apologize for something you didn't do.

你是否后悔对瓦尔先生做出了有条件道歉？

Do you regret conditionally apologizing to Mr.

瓦尔？

Wrap?

我后悔我整个声明。

I regret my entire statement.

斯派西表示，他最初的反应是回应顾问们的压力。

Spacey said his initial reaction was in response to pressure from his advisers.

他们告诉他，唯一的出路是认可沃普的感受，而不是指责他撒谎。

They were telling him the only way forward was to validate Wrap's feelings and to not accuse him of lying.

此时，斯派西面对的是模糊的指控，没有任何记忆可以依靠。

At this point, Spacey was dealing with vague accusations and had no memories to rely on.

要过几个月，那些关键的记忆和证明文件才会重新出现。

It would be months before those crucial memories and the documents to substantiate them would resurface.

凯文，你在2017年10月29日发布公开声明时感到有压力吗？

Kevin, did you feel any pressure to issue a public statement on 10/29/2017?

是的。

Yes.

为什么？

Why?

有人建议我，如果我对此置之不理，就会被指责有所隐瞒。

I was being advised that if I ignored it, I would be accused of having something to hide.

如果我不发表声明，看起来会很不好。

That if I didn't put out a statement, it would not look good.

而且他们鼓励我当天就必须发表一份声明。

And that I was encouraged I had to put out a statement that day.

甚至有人希望我在文章刊登之前就发布声明。

There was even people who wanted me to put out a statement before the article got printed.

但我抵制了。

That I resisted.

因为我感觉，也许当文章真正刊登时，我能从亚当·瓦里的邮件之外获得更多信息。

That because I felt that maybe when the article actually got printed, I could learn more information that I didn't have from the email from Adam Vary.

我感到压力很大，必须认真对待这件事。

I was feeling pressured that I had to take it seriously.

我必须以某种形式道歉，而这是非常早期的草稿，我当时试图找到一种方式来做到这一点。

I had to apologize in some form, and this was, you know, a very early draft in which I was attempting to try to find a way to do that.

你写这份草稿时，是否认为拉普先生的指控是真实的？

When you wrote this draft, did you think Mr.

拉普先生的指控是真实的？

Rapp's allegations were true?

不是。

No.

拉普先生，

Mr.

Spacey先生，您是否确信拉普先生所指控的事情从未发生过？

Spacey, are you confident that what Mr.

拉普先生所指控的事情从未发生过？

Rapp alleges never occurred?

我百分之百确信。

I am 100% confident.

您是否一直确信拉普先生所指控的事情从未发生过？

Have you always been confident that what Mr.

拉普所指控的事情从未发生过？

Rapp alleges never occurred?

是的。

Yes.

那时该让斯派西承受压力了。

Then it was time for Spacey to be put under pressure.

该进行交叉质询了。

It was time for his cross examination.

拉普的律师理查德·斯特格曼希望证明，斯派西那番带有半道歉性质的陈述源于真实感受，尽管斯派西如今已否认了它。

Rapp's lawyer, Richard Stegman, wanted to demonstrate that Spacey's statement, which contained a quasi apology, came from a place of truth, even though Spacey now disowned it.

他还问：既然你对这件事毫无记忆，为什么要为此道歉？

He also asked, Why apologize for something you have no memory of?

但这种质询方式并没有真正奏效。

But this line of questioning didn't really land.

除了让斯派西承认，那篇道歉声明以及几乎其中所有内容都是不真实的——尽管他对声明的最终措辞拥有决定权——他们至少成功证明了斯派西有能力说出不真实的话，这对一群正在寻找诚实证据的陪审团来说，是一个重要的承认。

Apart from getting Spacey to admit that the apology and almost all of the rest of the statement was untrue, even though he had the final say over what it said, They were at least able to prove that Spacey was capable of saying something that wasn't true, a significant admission in front of a jury looking for honesty.

你当时在综合这些建议，并决定该怎么做。

And you were synthesizing that advice, and you were deciding what to do.

公平吗？

Fair?

我最终决定了该怎么做。

I eventually decided what to do.

是的。

Yes.

最终责任在你身上。

The buck stops with you.

对吧，先生？

Right, sir?

归根结底，确实如此。

It does, in the end.

好的。

Okay.

你很尊敬安东尼·拉普吗？

Did you have a lot of respect for Anthony Rapp?

我其实不太了解安东尼·拉普。

I didn't really know Anthony Rapp.

我的问题是，你很尊敬他吗？

My question was, did you have a lot of respect for him?

不，长官。

No, sir.

你对他有敬佩之情吗？

Did you have admiration for him?

他是个同行演员。

He was a fellow actor.

我知道他取得过成功。

I know he had had success.

我的问题是，你对他有敬佩之情吗？

My question is, did you have admiration for him?

我欣赏他作为演员的才华。

I appreciate him as an actor.

我并不太了解他。

I didn't know him that well.

先生，您没听懂我的问题吗？

Sir, are you not understanding the question?

我说的是是非问题。

I'm saying yes or no.

您对安东尼·拉普有敬佩之情吗？

Did you have admiration for Anthony Rapp?

没有。

No.

您写道：‘我对这次遭遇没有任何记忆。’

You wrote, I have no memory of this encounter.

这是真的吗？

Was that true?

那仍然是真的。

That is still true.

那仍然是真的。

That's still true.

你对这次遭遇完全没有记忆。

You have no memory whatsoever of this encounter.

对吧？

Right?

这是正确的。

That is correct.

你仍然感到深深的歉意和震惊吗？

Are you still deeply sorry and shocked?

这不真实，我也并不感到深深的歉意和震惊。

It is not true, and I am not deeply sorry and shocked.

胆大妄为是一个独特的美国词汇。

Chutzpah is a uniquely American word.

这个词源自意第绪语。

It has a Yiddish origin.

我曾经看到有人这样定义它：在被判定杀害了父母后，向法庭求情，说自己是孤儿，请求宽恕。

I once saw it defined as after being found guilty of murdering your parents, pleading to the court for mercy because you're an orphan.

当凯文·史派西被安东尼·拉普的律师质问为何在收到 BuzzFeed 邮件得知指控后没有联系约翰·巴雷曼时，'厚颜无耻'这个词立刻浮现在脑海中。

The word chutzpah springs to mind as Kevin Spacey was questioned by Anthony Rapp's lawyers as to why he had not reached out to John Baraman when he first received the BuzzFeed email that made him aware of the allegations.

请记住，这封邮件来自记者亚当·瓦里，他也未能联系约翰·巴雷曼，尽管他比凯文·史派西有更多时间。

Remember, the email came from Adam Vary, a journalist who had also failed to reach out to John Barreman, even though he had a lot more time than Kevin Spacey.

安东尼·拉普也曾给约翰·巴雷曼发过几条短信，但并未积极跟进。

Anthony Rapp had also sent a few texts to John Barreman, but had not followed up with any real vigor.

现在，拉普的律师正在质问史派西，为何他没有立即联系巴雷曼。

Now Rapp's lawyers were asking Spacey why he hadn't immediately reached out to Barreman.

史派西本应知道，巴雷曼本会是一个重要的证人。

As Spacey should have known, Barreman would have been an important witness.

顺便说一下，当那个灵感闪现时，巴雷曼正是那个能告诉你更多关于你当时与安东尼交往细节的人，对吧？

Barreman, by the way, when that light bulb went on, he was the one guy that could have given you some more information about your dealings with Anthony back then, right?