682：威尔·吉达拉——痴迷、逆境、向丹尼·迈耶学习，以及唯一持久的竞争优势……非理性的款待

正如你比任何人都更清楚的那样，他们希望你去演讲，帮助他们，不管怎样。

As you know more than anybody, they want you to come speak and help them out, whatever.

所以，让我们跳出餐饮业，假设我们想打造某个领域的‘奇客富来’。

So let's go outside of restaurants and say, we want to make the Chick fil A of fill in the blank.

我希望我的公司成为‘我乐意为您服务’那样的公司。

I want my company to be the my pleasure company.

我希望我的公司是那种让人感受到某种特定情绪的企业。

I want my company to be the one that makes people feel a certain way.

这要怎么实现呢？

How does that work?

在不直接为人们提供食物的领域，这又该如何运作呢？

How does that work outside of the world of where you're actually serving people food?

对我来说，食物始终只是表达待客之道的一种媒介。

Food is and has always been for me just a conduit through which I've been able to express hospitality.

如果你从事的是服务他人的行业，我认为，这样的机会是无穷无尽的。

If you were in the business of serving other people, these opportunities exist for you in, I'd argue, an endless way.

我总是鼓励人们去倾听。

One of the things I'm always encouraging people to do listen.

Chick-fil-A 做的那些引起最多关注的事情，我认为他们称之为‘额外服务’。

The things that Chick fil A does that have garnered the most attention are I think they call it second mile service.

对吧？

Right?

这不仅仅是‘我的荣幸’，尽管那也很重要。

It's not just my pleasure, although that's a significant one.

还有当他们走进餐厅，在你用餐时为你续杯，这在其他快餐店是永远不会发生的——至少在他们刚开始时，其他快餐店绝不会这么做。

It's also when they go in and they refill your drinks while you're in the dining room, something that would never happen in another fast food restaurant, or at least when they started it, would never have happened in another fast food restaurant.

实际上，他们已经彻底审视了自己提供的服务体验。

Effectively, what they've done is they've gone through the experience they serve.

他们找出了体验中所有细微的接触点。

They've identified as many of the little touch points that exist in that experience.

他们努力让尽可能多的环节变得更好一点点。

They've tried to figure out how to make as many of them just a little bit more awesome as possible.

每一个服务他人的人都在提供一种体验，这种体验充满了大大小小的接触点和互动时刻。

Everyone that serves other human beings, The experience they're serving is filled with lots of big and little touch points, big and little moments of interaction.

问题是，许多公司只关注最明显的接触点，却没意识到每一个接触点都能产生影响。

The problem is so many companies focus on only the most obvious touch points without realizing that there is impact to be made with each one of them.

如果你有一栋办公楼，有人来拜访你，会发生什么？

What happens if you have an office building and people visit you?

当他们进入电梯前往你的办公室时，这就是一个接触点。

When they get into the elevator to go to your office, that is a touch point.

当前台人员接待他们时，这就是一个接触点。

When they're greeted by the person at the front desk, that is a touch point.

当他们停车时，这也是一个接触点。

When they park the car, that is a touch point.

当他们回到车上时，这同样是一个接触点。

When they get back in the car, that is a touch point.

当他们收到账单时，这也是一个接触点。

When they receive a bill, touch point.

我可以一直说下去，没完没了。

Like, I I can just keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

无论你做什么，都要细致地描绘体验的每一个环节。

No matter what you do, detail every little part of the experience.

一旦你完成了，就会像一条长长的时光轴。

Then once you have, it's like a big long timeline.

看看这张地图上的每一个接触点，想想我们怎样才能让它们更出色？

Just look at each touch point in that map and say, how can we make these more awesome?

当你专注于那些别人都没停下来好好考虑过的体验细节时，所产生的影响会令人震惊。

And it is wild the impact you can have when you focus on parts of the experience that no one else has even paused for long enough to consider.

你能让人们惊叹不已。

You can blow people's minds.

顺便说一句，这么做也很有趣。

And by the way, it's just fun to do.

是的。

Mhmm.

这让工作变得更有趣、更有创意、更有成就感。

It makes the work more fun, more creative, more fulfilling.

现在，每一家公司、每一位企业领导者都可以花点时间想想：让我们为我们的员工和自己，关注每一个微小的接触点。

Well, every company right now, every leader of a company right now could take a second and say, let's think about every tiny little touchpoint, one, for our employees and us.

对吧？

Right?

因为你必须照顾好你的员工、你的队友，以及我们客户的每一个微小接触点。

Because you gotta take care of your employees, your teammates, and then every single tiny little touchpoint for our customers.

你可以做一次全面审查，问问自己：我们到底在做什么？

You could do that audit and say, what do we do?

我的意思是，杰西·科尔，我刚采访过他，他是萨凡纳香蕉队的负责人。

I mean, Jesse Cole, who I just recorded with the Savannah Bananas.

对吧？

Right?

他就是这么做的。

That's what he does.

他们的发票流程现在完全变了。

And, like, their invoicing completely changed now.

发票的语言、打电话时的等待音乐，以及他们如何让等待音乐变得激动人心、有趣，而不是像其他人那样无聊，这一切都有可能发生。

In the way the the language of the invoices, the way it's the hold music, when you call them and how they really optimize for the hold music to be exciting and entertaining and not boring like everybody else is like, this could happen and everything.

我读到过一种说法，你告诉我这是对的。

One of the ways I've read you tell me this is right.

我肯定没错，你这么做是因为我想多听听你是如何将这些付诸实践的——比如你举办了一些活动，我稍后再深入聊聊举办活动的事。

I'm sure it is, That that you do this because I wanna hear more about how you put this into play is so you host a couple events, and I wanna get into hosting events even more in a second.

但让我们先聚焦其中的一个具体部分。

But let's go to one particular part of this.

你的活动中会有演讲者。

There are speakers at your events.

我读到过，你在会议前一天晚上会邀请所有演讲者到你家做客。

I've read that the night before the conference, you host all the speakers at your house.

这是真的吗？

Is this right?

你给他们提供中餐，然后把所有人聚集在客厅，送他们一些特别的礼物。

You serve them Chinese food, and then you gather everyone in the living room and give them specific gifts.

这准确吗？

Is this accurate?

你能给我详细讲讲这个过程吗？

Can you walk me through this process?

你是在哪儿看到这些的？

Where did you read those?

我不太确定，老兄。

I'm not sure, dude.

我只是，你知道的，我就是喜欢尽量去搜集所有信息。

I just I'm just you know how I just go is I I try to find everything.

我喜欢你做研究的方式。

I love your approach to research.

好吧。

I okay.

我想能够谈论这件事，又不破坏它。

I wanna be able to talk about this without ruining it.

我知道。

I know.

我不想破坏这个惊喜，

I don't wanna mess with a surprise,

但对啊。

but yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

你现在说的这个是欢迎大会，是我第一次创办的。

This is the Welcome Conference you're talking about right now, which is the first one I ever started.

这是一个关于纽约市 Hospitality 的一天制研讨会，现在在林肯中心举行。

It's a one day symposium about hospitality in New York City that is now held at Lincoln Center.

它已经变得非常盛大了。

It's become a a very big thing.

但这个活动最初是为餐饮行业的人创办的。

But it was started for restaurant people.

我希望那些在餐厅当服务员、怀有开自己餐厅梦想的人，能有一个学习待客之道的地方。

I wanted someone who was a server at a restaurant who had dreams to own their own restaurant, to have a place where they could learn about the craft of hospitality.

我特意使用这些词，因为我确实相信待客之道是一种技艺。

And I'm using those words with intention because I do believe hospitality is a craft.

这是一种可以锻炼增强的肌肉。

It's a muscle that you can strengthen.

因此，有些会议的票价高达203美元、45000美元一张。

And so for those reasons, some of these conferences you go to, it's like $2.03, $45,000 a ticket.

欢迎大会的票价大约是250美元一张。

The Welcome Conference costs, like, $250 a ticket.

从经济上来说，这对我来说基本是盈亏平衡，但我希望保持票价低廉，因为现在有很多参会者其实负担得起更贵的票价，但我希望确保其他人也始终能负担得起参加。

It's generally effectively a breakeven proposal for me, but I wanna keep the tickets inexpensive because now there's plenty of people that go that could afford a much more expensive ticket, but I wanna make sure others can always afford to be there.

因此，我们无力支付那些在台上激励他人的人应得的演讲费用。

For that reason, we cannot afford the kind of speaking fees that people who inspire others on that stage deserve.

这就是为什么我得想出一种更有创意的方式来表达感激。

That's why had to come up with a more creative way to show appreciation.

那场晚餐就是为此而设的。

And that's what that dinner is.

而且，是的，这与中餐有关，因为听好了，我现在可能不住在纳什维尔，但我一辈子都是纽约人。

And, yes, it's about Chinese food because, listen, I don't think I live in Nashville now, but I'm a New Yorker my whole life.

有一些事物让人感觉像家、像友谊、像社区，比如纽约的中餐外送。

And there are a few things that feel like home and friendship and community, like delivery Chinese food in New York.

这关乎社区，因为站在那个舞台上的人，他们的责任不仅是激励台下的人，还要创造条件，让与会者能够聚在一起，形成社区。

It's about community because the people that take that stage, their responsibility is to inspire the people in the room, but also to create the conditions through which those attendees can come together and form community.

在你自身尚未感受到归属感之前，你不可能为他人营造出社区氛围。

And it's impossible to form community for others until you first feel a sense of community yourselves.

而对我来说，要表达真挚的感激，既然我无法用金钱做到，那就用时间来实现——送他们一份被看见的礼物。

And then for me to show genuine appreciation and what I can't necessarily afford to do with money, can afford to do with time, to give them the gift of feeling seen.

我就先说到这里。

And that's where I'm gonna leave it for right now.

好的。

K.

我多读了一点，但我真的很喜欢。

I've read a little bit more, but I love it.

只是关于你和你的团队为确保

Just about the amount of effort and work that you and your team put in to make sure

他们感受到这一点。

they feel into this.

是的。

Yeah.

确保我们花费数月、数月、数月的事情。

To make sure something we spend months and months and months.

你并不是仅仅给他们一瓶昂贵的葡萄酒，比如说。

You're not just getting, like, an expensive bottle of wine, let's just say, to give to them.

不是。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

你在做一件更加个性化的事情，让他们感受到被重视。

You're doing something much more personalized to make them feel seen.

这可能是

It's probably the

最好的方式。

best way.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢魔术的一点是，我热爱魔术。

One of the things I love about magic, I love magic.

我喜欢通过款待创造魔法，但我也单纯地喜欢观看优秀的魔术师表演。

I love creating magic through hospitality, but I also just love seeing great magicians.

我热爱这一点，因为这里依然有惊喜。

And I love it because there's still surprise.

在这个很少有事情能让我们感到惊讶的时代，那种对未知或猝不及防之事所感受到的、充满童真的喜悦，显得尤为珍贵。

And in this day and age where there's so few things that can surprise us, there's like a youth filled joy in not understanding something or being prepared for something.

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道是不是别人提过欢迎这件事，还是我被误导了才谈到这个，但这就是我不愿深入探讨的原因。

So I don't know if someone else talked about the welcome thing or if someone else tricked me into talking about it, but that's why I choose not to go into too much depth.

我明白。

I got you.

没问题。

It's all good.

我其实想更深入聊聊现场活动，因为你不仅在纽约办过一场，刚才你提到了，还在纳什维尔办过。

I wanna get further actually into the live events because you you do one in New York, which you just talked about, and you also do one in Nashville.

因为我觉得现在的现场活动至关重要。

Because I think live events are everything right now.

我每年举办一次。

I host one a year.

对吧？

Right?

我本来想让你来参加的那个活动，你那时会在纳什维尔，据我本人举办这类活动的经验，每个人都渴望那种连接感和归属感，渴望真正地与人肩并肩地相处。

The one I was trying to get you to come to, you're gonna be out of town in Nashville, is that I think from my experience of hosting them myself, everybody just, like, they they crave that feeling of connection and community and being and literally touching shoulders with people.

他们希望亲自聚在一起。

They they wanna be together in person.

所以我特别想听听你多聊聊举办活动的事。

So I'd love just to hear you riff more about hosting events.

每个人可能都抱有极高的期待，毕竟你是《非理性的款待》的作者。

Everyone probably has crazy high expectations because you're the guy who wrote Unreasonable Hospitality.

所以他们期待的是最疯狂、最不可思议的体验。

So they're they're expecting the craziest of crazy things.

所以你可能感受到，我猜，有一些压力要去兑现这种期待。

And so you probably feel, I'm guessing, some pressure to deliver on that.

我觉得在如何策划活动以及如何让参与者感到特别、感受到那种魔力方面，我还有很多要向你学习的地方，无论是在纳什维尔、纽约，还是其他我读到你将举办活动的地方。

So I feel like I have a lot to learn from you on how you approach events and how you make people feel special or feel some of that magic when they come to your event in Nashville or New York or other places where I I've read that you're going to have them.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我想说的第一点是，活动的存在必须有一个充分的理由。

So the first thing I'd say is there needs to be a good reason for the event to exist.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我觉得人们有时太快跳过了这一步，仅仅为了办活动而办活动。

And I think people skip that step a little bit too quickly sometimes, doing an event just for the sake of having an event.

我多年前创办了‘欢迎大会’，因为当时世界各地都有厨师大会，而我总是唯一一个在这些大会上发言的餐厅人员。

I I created the Welcome Conference years ago because there were chef conferences all over the world, and I was always the only dining room person speaking at them.

我希望为餐厅工作人员创造一个能建立社群的地方。

And I wanted a place for dining room people to have community.

然后它随着时间的推移演变，不再仅仅是餐厅人员，而是包括了餐厅人员和厨师。

And then it evolved over the years and became not just dining room, but dining room and chefs.

后来书出版了，这个活动也远远超出了原来的规模。

And then the book came out and exploded into much more than that.

如果你五年前问我是否还会办另一个活动，我会说不会。

Had you asked me five years ago whether I'd ever do another event, I would have said no.

这就是那个活动。

That's the event.

我办了它。

I did it.

我有理由举办这一次。

I had a reason for doing this one.

我没有理由再办另一个了。

I don't have a reason for doing another one.

但欢迎。

But welcome.

我只是主持人。

I'm just the host.

我负责邀请演讲者，但这不是关于我的书。

I curate the speakers, but it's not about my book.

这也不是关于我的观点。

It's not about my ideas.

我是想搭建一个舞台，让其他人能够展示他们的想法。

It's about me creating a stage through which other people can present their ideas.

我记得当这本书真正走红后，随之举办的欢迎大会是我们第一次收到投诉，因为人们原本期待能学到更多关于这本书和我的内容。

And I remember after the book really gained traction, the Welcome Conference that followed was the first we'd ever gotten complaints about because people went expecting to learn more about the book and from me.

所以，是时候举办另一个活动了，因为我不会改变‘欢迎大会’。

And so then it was time to create another event because I wasn't gonna change Welcome.

我从不希望‘欢迎大会’完全围绕我展开，但显然，我们让一些人失望了，这意味着我们必须提升自己，为他们创造新的东西。

I never wanted Welcome to be all about me, but clearly, we were letting some people down, which meant we needed to step it up and create something for them.

于是，我们就创办了这个峰会。

And so that's when we created the summit.

Welcome大会有几千人参加。

Welcome is a couple thousand people.

Summit只有几百人，持续两天。

Summit is just a few 100, and it's over a two day period.

这本质上是一个培训工作坊兼会议兼派对，让那些和我有着相同世界观的人聚在一起，找到志同道合的人。

And it's a training workshop slash conference slash party, effectively, where people who see the world through the same lens as I do can come together and find other people who feel the same way.

同时，我们也会在这里真正地指导和培训人们，让他们掌握非理性的热情服务框架，并将其付诸实践。

And it's also where we guide people, truly train them on the unreasonable hospitality framework and how to bring it to life.

那么，你如何让一场活动更具包容性呢？

Now how do you make an event more hospitable?

嗯，就用我刚才提到的相同方法。

Well, using the exact same process I just talked about before.

如果以前食物是我传递非理性热情服务的媒介，那么现在，理念就是我传递它的媒介。

Again, if food was the conduit through which I served unreasonable hospitality, now ideas are the conduit through which I serve it.

这其实就是审视每一个瞬间，思考如何让它变得更富包容性。

And that's just looking at every moment and figuring out how to make it a little bit more hospitable.

顺便说一下，这并不总是意味着越多越好。

And by the way, that does not always mean more.

一般来说，我讨厌活动中的礼品袋。

As a rule, I hate gift bags at events.

我觉得它们就像是装满劣质周边产品的机场垃圾桶，人们之所以往礼品袋里塞这么多东西，是因为觉得东西越多，就越显得慷慨。

I think they're airport garbage cans just filled with terrible swag that's been given out at events because people feel like the more stuff they put in the gift bag, the more generous they will come across as having been.

我给得更少，因为我自己也接过这样的礼品袋，对我而言，这种方式根本行不通。

I give less because I've been on the receiving end of that, and for me, it doesn't work.

有些对个人的款待举动确实夸张到离谱。

There are some crazy over the top gestures of hospitality for individuals.

但大多数时候，我一直以来都喜欢用以下方式来创造东西。

But for the most part, I have always liked to create things in the following way.

我会观察某样东西，设计出我理想中应该存在的版本，然后疯狂地努力让这个愿景成真，最终有一天，我能邀请人们走进我的想象世界。

I look at something, design the version of it that I wish existed, work obsessively to bring that vision to life, and then one day I get to welcome people into my imagination.

我认为我们只能提供自己希望收到的东西，然后寄望于其他人也想要收到同样的东西。

Think we can only serve the thing that we want to receive and then just hope that other people want to receive that thing too.

当我们过于努力去创造我们认为别人想要的东西时，它永远不会真实动人。

When we try too hard to create what we think other people want, it's never gonna ring true.

再想想那些细微的接触点，这也是一个非常适合与你的团队或一群创意人士共同进行的练习，同时回顾你参加过的过去活动中的亮点或最佳时刻，然后尝试优化这些方面。

Thinking about all of those little touch points again, that would be another great exercise to do with your team or a group of creative people, as well as thinking about the highlights or the best moments of past events you went to and then try to optimize for that.

我知道，从我参加过的某些最棒的活动中，我是在会议间隙结识了那些了不起的人。

I know from some of the best events I've went to where I met amazing people in between meetings.

好的。

Okay.

让我们想想这一点。

Let's think about that.

让我们稍微优化一下会议之间的空档时间。

Let's optimize a little bit for the time in between meetings.

而大多数人却认为，应该尽可能塞进更多内容。

Whereas most people think, let's cram as much stuff as possible.

但据我所知，这并不是让一场会议变得出色的真正原因。

That, in my experience, is not what makes a great meeting.

一场出色的会议、大会或聚会，通常取决于在场的人，以及为这些人创造相遇的机会、氛围或空间，从而可能建立起改变人生的关系。

What makes a great meeting or makes a great conference or a great gathering is usually the people who are in the room and creating an opportunity or the container or the space for those people to meet and potentially have life changing relationships.

这只是一个例子。

That's just one example.

所以我认为关于会议和大会，还有很多值得探讨的地方，

So I think there's so much there on conferences and meetings, with

我给你举个我们去年峰会的例子，今年我们也会这么做。

the I'll give you I'll give you an example from our summit last year, which we're doing in this year.

去年是我们第一次这么做。

Last year was the first time we did it.

在我想象中，我预期现场会充满两三人、四五人或六七人的小组。

And in my mind, I expected that it would be filled with groups of two or four or six people.

对吧？

Right?

你和一位同事来自同一家公司，你们会一起来参加。

You and a colleague are coming from your company, and you're gonna attend it together.

这将是一半团队建设，一半教育，不管怎样。

It's gonna be half team building, half education, whatever.

然后，在活动前一个月，我团队中的一个人带我逐个浏览了嘉宾名单，因为我希望深入了解将要出席的行业。

And then, like, a month before the event, one person on my team was walking me through the entire guest list because I wanted to start getting, like, really savvy on the industries that were gonna be represented.

很多人都是独自前来。

A lot of people were coming alone.

我当时惊呆了。

I was like, woah.

我完全没料到会这样。

I did not see that coming.

这算不上什么糟糕的逆境，毕竟不是真正的逆境，但确实是我完全没有预料到的情况。

This is not exactly adversity as a terrible thing to waste because it's not adversity, but it was certainly something I wasn't expecting.

当我们遇到意料之外的事情时，有时会让它打乱我们的节奏，但你也可以接纳它，试着找出如何把它变成一件了不起的事。

And sometimes when we encounter things that we weren't expecting, we can let them throw us off our game, or you can embrace them and try to figure out how to make that into something amazing.

所以我们做了这样的安排——这也就是为什么我原本对这么多人独自前来并不太兴奋。

So what we did was and this is the reason why I wasn't excited about so many people coming alone.

我觉得房间里的氛围非常重要。

I think energy in a room is so important.

当你做这些活动时，你希望每个人都积极参与，但我是世界上最外向的人之一。

And, like, when you do these activities, you want everyone leaning in, but I am one of the most extroverted people in the world.

即便如此，如果我走进一个鸡尾酒会，而一个人都不认识，我会变得僵硬。

Still, if I walk into a cocktail party and I don't know anyone, I seize up.

我不擅长这个。

I'm not good at it.

我不喜欢这样。

I don't like it.

我从未在酒吧搭讪过女孩。

I never picked up a girl at a bar.

那根本不是我的风格。

That's just not my thing.

我喜欢和认识的人待在一起。

Like, I like to be around people I know.

我担心，有这么多人独自参加，会破坏整个房间的氛围。

And I was worried that the energy of the entire room would be thrown off by that many people attending alone.

我还担心，他们到达纳什维尔的那个晚上会感到孤单。

I was also just worried that they'd be lonely the night they got to Nashville.

所以我们给他们所有人发了一封邮件，说：嘿。

So we sent an email to all of them, and we said, hey.

我们注意到你是独自一人前来。

We saw that you're coming alone.

我们没有任何评判。

No judgment.

事实上，你一个人来到这里参加这个活动，我们感到非常荣幸。

We're actually really honored that you are coming here by yourself to do this.

但我们有一个想法。

But we have an idea.

如果你愿意的话，也许你在这里有朋友，或者你只是想一个人在家看电视，因为你抛下家人，需要一些属于自己的时间。

If you're so inclined now maybe you have friends down here or you just want a night alone watching TV because you're leaving a family behind and you just need some some you time.

或者你可能想认识一些人。

Or maybe you'd like to meet some people.

如果你是后者，请告诉我们。

If you're the latter, let us know.

我们为我们在纳什维尔最喜爱的一些餐厅预订了晚餐，并做了一些配对。

And we set up dinner reservations at some of my favorite restaurants in Nashville, and we did some matchmaking.

最后，我们有大约40个人在纳什维尔各地的餐厅一起用餐。

And we ended up having, like, 40 people dining together at restaurants all over Nashville.

第二天，他们带着这种紧密的社群氛围直接来到了会议的开场。

They ended up then coming into the the beginning of the conference the next day already, like, this one big awesome community.

这并不是为每个人做某种夸张的Dreamweaver式举动。

That's not doing some crazy Dreamweaver gesture for each of the individuals.

这仅仅是基于想：如果我自己一个人来，我会希望别人为我做些什么？

It's simply based on saying, gosh, what would I feel like if I were coming alone, and what would I hope that someone would do for me?

那就这么做吧。

Let's do that.

只是多走一步，提前准备，看看名单上的人来自哪里？

Just the extra step of preparation, looking at the list of people, where do they come from?

等一下。

Wait a second.

这可不是我预期的那样。

This is not what I expected.

我们能做些什么？

What can we do?

我们能做些什么不寻常的事？

What can we do that's unreasonable?

我们能做些什么来体现超出活动本身之外的额外热情好客？

What can we do that will show that extra hospitality that's outside of the actual event?

再说一遍，我认为我们所有人都可以在这方面做得更好。

Again, I think we all could be better at that.

好的。

Okay.

我昨天从你的邮件中得到的一个想法是，我们都应该做得更好。

One of the things that I I just got from your email yesterday is we all should do a better job.

我知道我自己在这方面还需要做得更好。

I know I need to do a better job of this.

让别人更容易说‘好’。

Of making it easy for someone to say yes.

你提到人们会给你发试看片。

You wrote about the fact that people send you screeners.

有时候他们会寄DVD给你，这让我很惊讶，因为我根本没有DVD播放器。

And sometimes they'll send you, like, DVDs, which is surprising because I don't have a DVD player.

而其他时候，他们会发二维码给你，这样就能非常方便地观看电影或节目。

And then other times, they'll send you QR codes, which make it very easy to watch whatever the movie or the show is.

你能围绕这个例子展开聊聊，以及这种让别人更容易说‘好’的整体心态吗？

Can you maybe riff on that example and then just the overall mentality and this idea of making it easier for others to say yes?

是的。

Well, yeah.

我的意思是，这正好承接了上一段对话，因为它们是密不可分的。

I mean, this is it's a good segue from the last conversation because they're part and parcel.

对于那些没读过我通讯的人，我要借此机会为我的通讯做个毫不掩饰的推广。

For people who did not read the newsletter, and I'll seize on this as a shameless plug for the newsletter.

我写一份通讯。

I write a newsletter.

它叫《餐前》。

It's called Pre Meal.

每两周发布一次。

It comes out every two weeks.

这是我最喜欢做的事情之一。

It's one of my favorite things to do.

真的很好。

It's really good.

很好。

Good.

因为我在写书的时候养成了写作的习惯，我认为一旦养成了这样的习惯，任由它消失是不负责任的。

Cheaply because I I developed a practice of writing when I wrote the book, and I think it's irresponsible once you've built a practice, to let it die.

而且，正如你和你父亲已经提到的，写作是一种教学形式。

Well, it it also, as your dad and you have already said, is writing is a form of teaching.

所以写作能带来思维的清晰。

So writing creates clarity of thought.

从领导力的角度来看，我将永远坚持这一点：所有领导者，无论他们是否选择发表，都应当具备某种写作习惯，以便更清晰地认识自己的信念和想法。

So from a leadership perspective, I will stand on this mountain forever that all leaders, whether they choose to publish or not, is on them, but all leaders should have some sort of a writing practice in order to get more clear on what they believe, what they think.

如果你不这么做，我认为这对你要领导的人是一种不公。

And if you're not doing that, I think it's an injustice to the people that you're leading

是的。

Yeah.

因为这非常强大，也很有挑战性，对吧？但在你的案例中，你公开发表，而且它确实在改变人们的生活。

Because it's such a It's powerful hard, right, but in your case, you're publishing and it's also changing lives.

刚开始确实很难，但就像任何事一样，就像你刚开始去健身房一样，是很困难的。

It's hard it's hard in the beginning, but like any it's like if you start going to the gym, it's hard.

太好了。

Great.

随着时间推移，会变得容易得多。

Over time, it gets much easier.

是的。

Yep.

好了，你继续说吧。

Anyway, go ahead.

对。

Yeah.

无论如何，去 unreasonablehospitality.com 发送邮件或订阅前导邮件来设置。

Anyway, that email or the pre mail newsletter, unreasonablehospitality dot com to set it up.

免费推广完毕。

Shameless plug complete.

很棒。

It's great.

我昨天提到的那个，我是《熊》的制片人，这件事大约六个月或七个月前才开始发生。

The one I wrote about yesterday was so I'm a producer for The Bear, and this just started happening seven months ago or six months ago.

我根本没想到会这样，但突然开始收到艾美奖投票的四年资格材料。

And I had no idea it was going to start happening, but I started getting the four year consideration packages for Emmy voting.

顺便说一句，不是有些人寄DVD。

And by the way, it wasn't some people send DVDs.

所有寄DVD的都是为了艾美奖，而我收到的是一堆又一堆的DVD。

It was all people send DVDs for Emmys It's and all I got were DVDs after DVDs after DVDs.

每次收到，我都会堆起一小摞，因为第一次发生时，我想：哦，这真酷。

And every time, I had this little pile because the first time it happened, I was like, oh, this is cool.

我收到了四年资格的材料。

I'm getting the four year consideration things.

我从没想过这种事会发生在我的人生里。

I never thought that would happen in my life.

我会拿给妻子看，我们还开玩笑说，我们家根本没有DVD播放器。

And I'd show my wife, and we joke about how we didn't have a DVD player.

第二次的时候，我们又拿这个开玩笑。

And then the second time, we joke about it again.

第三次，我就觉得这太荒谬了。

The third time, I was like, well, this is ridiculous.

这到底是谁在操作？

Who's running this?

我当时想，也许好莱坞的人都还用DVD播放器，但好吧，既然我收到了这些，那从技术上讲，我现在也算在好莱坞了。

And I was like, maybe people in Hollywood all still have DVD players, but, well, I guess, technically, I'm in Hollywood now if I'm receiving these.

然后，亚马逊Prime的包裹到了。

And then eventually, Amazon Primes arrived.

那不是一张DVD。

And it wasn't a DVD.

事实上，那是一个精美的印刷品，几乎像一本立体书，正面有个二维码，这是我们唯一能看的那一个。

In fact, was this beautiful printed, almost like a pop up book with the QR code on the front, and it's the only one we were able to watch.

我的教训是：

The lesson for me is this.

A，管好你自己的事。

A, just shop your own business.

去你自己的酒店。

Go to your own hotel.

我经常说这句话。

I say this all time.

我用的比喻是：待在你自己的酒店里。

Like, the metaphor I use is stay in your own hotel.

在你真正成为你所服务对象的接收方之前，你无法看清自己所有做错的地方，以及还有哪些可以做得更好的机会。

That until you've actually been on the receiving end of whatever you're serving, you have an inability to see all the things you're doing wrong or the opportunities you have to do more things right.

我举的例子是，每次我去酒店洗澡，浑身湿透了，伸手去拿洗发水，却发现它被放在洗手台上，而不是淋浴间里。

The example I use about staying in your hotel is the number of hotels where I go to get in the shower, and I'm soaking wet, and I reach for the shampoo and realize that it's set up on the sink, not in the shower itself.

每次看到这种情况，我都会想，如果这家酒店的总经理亲自住过这家酒店，第二天就会改过来。

And every single time I see that, I'm like, if the GM of this hotel ever stayed at this hotel, that would change tomorrow.

是的。

Mhmm.

或者所有那些我入住的酒店，我去找开关关灯，结果发现关掉房间里所有灯的难度堪比破解达芬奇密码。

Or all the hotels where I go there and I go to turn the lights off, and it's like the da Vinci code to figure out how to turn off every light in a hotel room.

如果这家酒店的总经理亲自住过一次，这根本不会这么难。

Like, if the GM of that hotel ever stayed in that hotel, it would not be that hard.

是的。

Yep.

这件事也是同样的道理。

It's the same thing with this.

人们在互相发送东西。

People are sending things to people.

在这种情况下，这是一种请求，却让对方回答这个请求变得难到不可思议，完全违背了他们希望的方式。

And in this case, it's an ask and making it so unbelievably hard for the person to answer that ask in the way they hope.

这并不是关于做得更多。

And it's not about doing more.

亚马逊所做的实际上更少。

What Amazon did was actually less.

他们从包装中移除了一个东西。

They removed one thing from the package.

他们只是以一种更加贴心的方式进行了重组。

They just structured it in a way that actually was more hospitable.

是的。

Yeah.

想想你所提供的、销售的或做的任何事情，都要从对方的角度出发。

Think about whatever the thing you provide, you sell, you do is from the other person's perspective.

这听起来像是最显而易见的事情，但显然并没有人这么做。

It sounds like the most obvious thing ever, and yet it's obviously not happening.

这让我难以置信。

It's unbelievable to me.

如果你经营一家企业，却没有以客户与你企业互动的每一种方式来体验自己的业务，那你就是在冒险。

Like, if you run a business and you have not engaged in your own business in every way that one of your customers engages with your business, you are being reckless.

你正在白白浪费金钱。

You are leaving money on the table.

你没有尽到你的职责。

You are not doing your job.

如果你经营一家电子商务业务，却从未自己买过东西，从未尝试过退货，从未提交过投诉，从未亲自打过客服电话。

If you run an ecommerce business and you haven't bought something yourself, if you have not tried to return something yourself, if you've not filed a complaint yourself, if you've not tried to get someone from customer service on the phone yourself.

你提到杰西·科尔和等待音乐。

You talk about Jesse Cole and hold music.

我的意思是，显然没人这么做，因为大多数等待音乐都是三十秒的音乐循环播放一小时，顺便说一句，这不仅令人不悦，还会真的让人发疯。

I mean, clearly no one's doing that based on the fact that most hold music is thirty seconds of music repeated for an hour on end, which, by the way, is not just unpleasurable, it will actually drive you insane.

这说明根本没人打过自己公司的客服电话。

That's just someone that's never called their own customer service line.

否则，这种情况早就被改掉了，因为如果有人真正关心，这些改动可以非常快速地完成。

Otherwise, that would be changed because these changes can be made so quickly if someone actually cared enough to make them.

前几天我演讲完后参加了一个见面会，有个人走过来对我说了句话，让我瞬间愣住，不得不暂停对话，把它记下来。

I was in a meet and greet after I talked the other day, and someone came up and they said something that stopped me in my tracks to the point where I had to press pause in the conversation and write it down.

他说：我非常喜欢你刚才讲的一切。

He said, I love everything you just talked about.

这让我想起我们经常说的一句话：永远不要让善意的冲动溜走。

It reminds me of something we say all the time, which is never let a gracious impulse pass.

顺便说一句，这一点也适用于你的活动。

Which, by the way, this applies to your event too.

当你在策划活动时，如果想到了一个很棒的点子，你心里总会有一个魔鬼和一个天使在争辩，魔鬼会说：这太难了。

When you're thinking about your event planning and you come up with a really cool idea, there's always gonna be, like, the devil and the angel on your shoulder, and the devil's gonna be like, that's too hard.

会花太多时间。

It's gonna take too much time.

算了吧。

Forget it.

别听它的。

Don't listen to that.

转过去找天使，对它说：嘿。

Just go over to the angel and be like, hey.

我们怎么才能让这件事实现呢？

How do we make this happen?

别让好点子溜走。

Like, don't let the good ideas go away.

优秀与卓越之间的区别，不在于他们有多少好点子，而在于他们愿意投入多少时间把这些好点子变为现实。

The difference between the good and the great are not the number of good ideas they have, but the amount of time they're gonna invest in bringing those good ideas to life.

但第二点是，如果你要为自己酒店购物，作为自己生意的顾客，你就会亲身体验到各种事情。

But the second is, like, if you are gonna shop your own hotel, if you are gonna be a customer of your own business, you're going to experience things.

当你有了想法，就要真正采取行动。

When you have the idea, actually do something about it.

不要让你的业务陷入平庸的汪洋中，只因为你太忙而忽视了明明知道存在的问题。

Don't allow your business to hover in a sea of mediocrity because you were too busy to fix a problem that you were very aware exists.

太棒了。

Love it.

在我们开始之前，我就告诉威尔，我每周都会收到出版商发来的BookScan畅销书榜单，榜单顶部永远有两个名字。

I told Will before we started that I get the BookScan bestseller list sent to me every week by book publishers, and there are two names that are permanently stuck at the top.

不管谁在写书，始终都是詹姆斯·克利尔和威尔·圭达拉。

Regardless of who else is writing books, it's James Clear and Will Guidara.

就是这样。

That's it.

每周都是如此。

Every single week.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

太棒了。

It's awesome.

对吧？

Right?

现在感觉我们有了它的延伸。

And now it feels like we have an extension of this.

《不合理的款待》指南版。

So Unreasonable Hospitality, the field guide.

再多说说。

Tell me more.

这是什么？

What is this?

它是关于什么的？

What's it about?

它如何帮助所有企业领导者？

How could it be helpful for all business leaders?

我的意思是，我对它感到非常兴奋。

I mean, I'm so excited about it.

像大多数事情一样，我们可以回到对话的起点——痴迷。

Like most things, we can circle back to the beginning of the conversation, obsession.

我让自己比实际需要的要难得多。

I made this much harder on myself than than it probably needed to be.

我开始做这个是因为你在对话进行到15%时提出的问题：其他人是如何让这一点落地的？

I started working on this because of the question you asked about 15% of the way through the conversation, how do other people bring this to life?

是的。

Yep.

这是我在各地演讲时，每次都会听到的、非常一致的问题之一。

And it's one of the questions that I've heard with a ton of consistency every time I go around and speak.

当我演讲时，我会努力做到激励与实操内容各占一半。

And when I speak, I really work hard to make it equal doses of inspiring and actionable.

我不喜欢听那些只带来激励、却让人听完后不知如何行动的演讲。

I don't like hearing someone deliver an inspiring speech where at the end of it, I don't know what to do with the information.

因此，我非常用心地为人们提供实用的工具。

So I work really hard to give people tools.

但即便如此，我一次又一次地收到类似的问题：好吧。

And yet, over and over and over again, I get questions like, okay.

但我们究竟该如何将它付诸实践？

But how exactly do we bring it to life?

因此，如果‘非理性的热情’是‘为什么’，那么这本指南就是‘怎么做’。

And so if unreasonable hospitality is the why, the field guide is the how.

这本书的结构由一系列构建模块组成。

This is structured as a series of building blocks.

这是一本工作手册。

And it's a workbook.

比如，你会拿到一支笔。

Like, you you get a pen.

到结尾时，我们已经一起合著了它。

We coauthor it together by the end.

你会完成各种练习，回答问题。

You're going through exercises, answering questions.

我要你绘制客户的旅程。

I'm asking you to map your customer journey.

我要你做一大堆类似的事情。

I'm asking you to do a bunch of stuff like that.

但它讲的是如何打造团队，如何通过关注卓越、协作、沟通、反馈与修复来建立服务文化。

But it's how to build a team, how to create a culture of hospitality through focusing on excellence, collaboration, communication, feedback, and repair.

当你完成了前两件事，打好了基础之后，如何与你的团队一起创造奇迹。

And then once you've done those first two things, once you've built that foundation, how to work with your team to create magic.

它还详细讲述了我经常提到的Premio。

And it goes through how I I talk all all the time about Premio.

这是一步步教你如何开展能产生实际效果的每日站会。

It's a literal step by step how to deliver a daily huddle that will move the needle.

我见过许多来自几乎各个行业的人，根据我书中提出的Dreamweaver理念，自行构建了他们的Dreamweaver项目，这让我意识到，我从未真正清晰地说明过这个项目应该如何构建。

I've seen so many people across pretty much every industry build their own Dreamweaver programs based on my Dreamweaver concept in the book, and that's made me realize that I never actually made super clear how that program was meant to be built.

所以我看到人们仍在用它取得不错的效果，但方式上却以各种不同的方式出现了偏差。

So I've seen people doing it still to good effect, but incorrectly in a in a bunch of different ways.

因此，这是一份关于如何构建Dreamweaver项目的指南。

So it's a how to on building a Dreamweaver program.

这其实就是我陪着你，当你决定打造这种文化时，一路同行。

It's really just me walking alongside you as you make the choice to create this kind of culture.

我特别兴奋的是这一点。

And what I'm particularly excited about it for is this.

已经有很多公司组织了《非同寻常的客户服务》读书会，让团队聚在一起阅读这本书。

There's been a lot of companies that have done unreasonable hospitality book clubs where their their team gets together and reads it.

我认为这将是一种极具影响力的方式，让整个团队一起学习和消化这些内容。

I think this will be such an impactful way to do a book club for the entire team to work through the material together.

这既是一半教育，一半团队建设，我迫不及待想看看会有什么成果。

It's half education, half team building, and I can't wait to see what comes out of it.

但我们给自己增加了难度，因为关于第一本书，我收到的最好的评价之一是：这是一本完美的海滩读物，这让我非常感动，因为我希望一本关于服务的商业书籍本身也能充满亲和力，读起来轻松有趣。

But we made it harder for ourselves because one of the best compliments I got about the first book was that it was an awesome beach read, which meant a lot to me because I wanted a business book about hospitality to itself be hospitable, to be fun to read.

我也希望这本工作手册能体现服务精神，让人读起来不觉得是工作。

And I wanted a workbook about hospitality to be hospitable, to not feel like work.

于是我们请来了一位名叫唐·克拉克的设计师，他曾为乐高、皮克斯和NASA做过设计，负责书中的插图。

And so we brought in a designer named Don Clark, who's done work for Lego and Pixar and NASA to do the illustrations.

他完成的作品简直令人惊叹。

And it's just stunning what he's done.

整本书中包含了大约200幅原创插图。

It's something like 200 pieces of original art throughout the entire thing.

太棒了。

And Wow.

我对最终的结果非常满意。

And I'm really happy with how it turned out.

他真的赋予了这些想法生命力，让它们跃然纸上。

He he really kind of breathed life into the ideas such that they jump off the pages.

你似乎对美有着深厚的追求。

It seems like you also have a deep care for beauty.

是的。

Yes.

看看这些细节，找来世界上最好的插画师之一，让产品本身成为一件艺术品，不仅实用有用，能融入你的生活，而且本身也充满美感。

Looking at that, the little details, getting the best illustrator in the world or one of them so that the product itself is like a piece of art, a work of art that there's a beauty in it in addition to being practical and useful and you could implement this into your life, but it also is beautiful.

我觉得这是一种偏执。

I think it's the obsessiveness.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，就连第一版的封面，我记得我们可能修改了大约150次。

I mean, even in the first the first cover, I remember we probably went through like a 150 iterations of the cover design.

那位设计师是谁？

Who was that designer?

他们对你如此执着是怎么回应的？

And how did they respond to to you being obsessed?

后来我从出版社的设计师换成了我自己在博物馆现代艺术部合作过的内部设计师。

Well, I ended up switching designers from the publisher's designer to my own in house designer that I'd worked with at the Museum of Modern Art.

因为所有的原始封面设计都像是盘子配亚麻餐巾。

Because all the original cover designs, it was like a plate with a linen napkin.

我当时就说：不行，各位。

I was like, no, guys.

你们没抓住重点。

You're missing the mark.

这不只是给餐厅用的。

Like, a, this is not just for restaurants.

而且，我不想迎合餐厅那种刻板的风格。

And b, I don't wanna lean into the stuffiness of restaurants.

我想突出 hospitality 的明亮与活力。

I wanna lean into the brightness of hospitality.

也许不是每个人都喜欢，但关键是，你无法选择自己在乎什么。

Now maybe not everyone likes it, but the point is that I don't think you can choose what to care about.

你在乎一切。

You care about everything.

威尔，这已经持续了十一年了。

Will, and I so it's been eleven years of this.

当我想到其中的共同点时，痴迷是其中之一。

When I think about one of the commonalities, obsession is one of them.

但紧随其后的，正是你刚才说的。

But what's like right alongside that is exactly what you just said.

我本来想说‘关心’这个词。

I was gonna say the word care.

再次强调，这听起来很显而易见，但其实不然。

Again, that sounds obvious, but it's not.

如果你走过人生，你会看到人们活在僵尸世界里。

If you go through life, you'll see people are living in zombieland.

他们只是随波逐流地活着。

They're just existing with whatever it is.

但其中最大的区别之一，就是对你所选择的事情怀有深切的关怀。

But and one of the biggest differences is this deep care for whatever it is that you're choosing to do.

我有孩子要去上大学，我发现自己给他们写一些小纸条，其中一条是：我不在乎你上大学后要做什么，但一定要做到卓越。

It's like I have kids going off to college, and I'm like I find myself writing them these little notes, and one of them is I don't care what you're gonna do when you go to college, but do it with excellence.

如果你要去温蒂汉堡工作，或者去书店，那就尽可能成为最出色的自己，无论是整理书店的书，还是把大学的衬衫挂回货架上。

If you're gonna go work at Wendy's or whatever, the bookstore, be like the most excellent version of you possible while you're sorting the books at the bookstore or you're putting the shirts of your college back on the whatever.

或者你是在帮助顾客。

Or you're helping a customer.

这都不重要。

It doesn't matter.

一定要做到卓越。

Be excellent at it.

就是在乎。

Like, care.

对吧？

Right?

要对你所做的事情追求卓越。

Care about being excellent at the thing.

不是说，我只是因为需要赚点钱才做这份工作，而且我累了，我状态不好。

It's not, well, I just have this job because, you know, I need to make a little money, and I'm tired, and I was I I'm hung up.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

我的意思是，这样也没问题。

Like, that's fine.

你会去做那些事情的。

You're gonna do those things.

我明白。

I get it.

但无论你做什么，都要做到卓越，而且你必须在乎。

But be excellent at whatever the thing is, and you gotta care.

我从你身上感受到的，正是这种对你所选择的任何事情的深切投入。

And that's that's what I feel so much from you is this this deep care for whatever it is you choose to do.

谢谢你，兄弟。

Thank you, man.

顺便说一句，我也能感受到你的这份用心。

And by the way, feel it in return.

我甚至喜欢看你屏幕的样子，灯光和背景都很棒，我知道你把书架虚化了一点，但我敢肯定，你已经对上面每一本书的摆放顺序都精雕细琢了，虽然我根本看不清都是些什么书。

I even like looking at your screen between the lighting and the backdrop, and I know you have the bookcases blurred a little bit, but I'm sure you've already obsessed over every single book that's on there in the order that it's in, though I can't even tell what books they are.

当你把大量精力投入到那些别人甚至注意不到的事情上时，这种执着会以非常美妙的方式展现出来，而人们是能感受到的。

I think obsession manifests itself in really beautiful ways when you focus a lot of energy on things that not everyone will even fully notice, but people can feel it.

是的

Yeah.

说实话，我投入很多精力的那些事情只是为了我自己，因为我就是喜欢事物以某种特定的方式存在，我喜欢为自己所处的房间那条走廊感到自豪——就是我现在跟你说话的这个房间的走廊。

And honestly, lot of the stuff that I pour myself into is just for me because I just like things being a certain way, and I like to be proud of the hallway that leads to the room that I'm sitting in and talking to you from?

而且我

And I

走廊是什么样的？

What's the hallway like?

其实上面挂了很多来自《田野指南》的艺术品。

It's just got a bunch of art actually from The Field Guide.

我们花了不少钱买下这些作品，真的吗？

We spent a bunch of money to Really?

把这么多东西写下来是因为啊，

Write down a bunch of these things because Oh,

我太喜欢了。

I love that.

我喜欢在将自己信奉的理念传播到外界时，不断提醒自己这些信念。

I like to be reminded of the things I believe in as I continue to perpetuate the ideas out in the world.

我从未因为太过在意而后悔过。

I've never once regretted caring more.

是的。

Yep.

我确实多次因为不够在意而后悔。

There's been plenty of times where I've regretted caring less.

我太喜欢了，兄弟。

I love it, man.

我可以一直跟你聊下去。

I could talk to you forever.

下次我们去纳什维尔吧。

Next time, we'll be in Nashville.

《非理性的款待》《指南手册》。

Unreasonable Hospitality, The Field Guide.

我非常期待这本书能面世，影响人们。

I'm pumped for this to get out into the world, man, and impact people.

它肯定会对我产生影响。

It's definitely gonna impact me.

这是我打算和我的团队一起实践的事情。

It's something I'm gonna go through with my team.

在我们交谈的过程中，我一直在思考一些问题，比如我们如何能更热情好客，如何能更不拘一格，如何能像你们对待嘉宾那样对待客人。

I was already thinking about questions while we talk through of how we can be more hospitable, how can we we can be more unreasonable, how we can be more like the way that you guys treat your guest speakers.

所有这些事情，比如对每一个接触点进行审计，都太有道理了，而我们所有人其实都忽略了这些。

All the things, like, doing the audit of every single touch point makes so much sense that we're missing we all are.

对吧？

Right?

我们忽略了那些本可以做得更好的地方，而这本书就是一个绝佳的提醒。

We're missing things that could be better, and this is just an amazing reminder.

所以谢谢你，兄弟。

So thank you, man.

我非常感激你，感谢你为这个世界所做的一切，也感谢你在录音时和平时与我交流时展现出的慷慨与友善。

I really appreciate you and all that you've put on the world and how you've been so gracious with me as well, both when we record and and in between times to just your communication.

你总是迅速回应，总是很有帮助，总是充满善意和好奇心，这真的太棒了。

Always fast, always useful, always kind, and curious, which is really cool, man.

所以我由衷地感谢你。

So I'm super appreciative of you.

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

兄弟，你好。

Hey, brother.

我也很感激你。

I appreciate you too.

谢谢。

Thanks

感谢你让我继续这场对话，让我们共同进步。

We'll for having me continue this dialogue as we both progress, man.

这会非常有趣。

Gonna be a lot of fun.

太棒了，老兄。

Awesome, dude.

这是播客俱乐部的终点。

It is the end of the podcast club.

感谢你成为播客俱乐部终点的成员。

Thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club.

如果是的话，请给我发邮件，ryan@learningleader.com。

If you are, send me a note, ryan@learningleader.com.

告诉我你从与威尔·吉达拉的这次精彩对话中学到了什么。

Let me know what you learned from this great conversation with Will Guidara.

根据我的笔记，有几个要点。

A few takeaways from my notes.

绘制每一个接触点。

Map every touch point.

列出客户与你的业务发生的每一次互动，从第一封邮件到整个体验过程，再到你的开票方式，并对每一个环节问自己一个问题。

List every single interaction a customer has with your business from the first email to the whole music to how you invoice and ask yourself one question about each one.

我怎样才能让这个环节变得很棒？

How can I make this awesome?

魔法存在于大多数人忽略的细节中。

The magic is in the details that most people ignore.

如果你想了解如何绘制每一个接触点，杰西·科尔的那期节目也非常值得听。

Jesse Cole is another great episode to listen to if you wanna talk about mapping every touchpoint.

杰西和威尔在这方面做得完美无缺。

Jesse and Will are perfect at this.

永远不要让任何善意的冲动溜走。

And then never let a gracious impulse pass.

下次当你想到要为客户、同事、队友或朋友做一件善良或慷慨的事时，就立刻去做。

The next time you think of doing something kind or generous for a customer, a colleague, a teammate, a friend, do it.

现在就去做。

Do it right now.

这种冲动正是建立忠诚度的关键，这种忠诚度是任何人都无法夺走的。

That impulse is the thing that builds loyalty that nobody can take from you.

然后，住进你自己的酒店。

And then stay in your own hotel.

这虽然是个隐喻，但Will所指的是，无论你销售或提供什么，都要以客户的角度去亲身体验。

Now this is a metaphor, but what Will's talking about is whatever you're selling or you're offering, experience it as your customer does.

自己预订一下房间。

Book the reservation yourself.

亲自打一遍你的客服热线。

Call your own customer service line.

读一读你发给客户的邮件。

Read the email you send.

你无法修复你看不到的问题。

You can't fix what you can't see.

关键在于设身处地，从那些正在体验你产品或服务的人的角度出发。

It's all about putting yourself in the shoes that from the perspective of the people who are experiencing it from you.

住在你自己的酒店里。

Stay in your own hotel.

再次感谢你们持续传播这个信息，告诉一两个朋友：‘你应该听听《学习领导者》节目中威尔·吉达拉的这一期。’

Once again, I wanna say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of the Learning Leader Show with Will Guidara.

我认为他会帮助你成为更有效的领导者，因为你持续这样做，同时也去Spotify和Apple Podcasts收听。

I think he'll help you become a more effective leader because you continue to do that and you also go to Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

订阅这个节目。

You subscribe to the show.

希望你给予五星评价，并撰写一篇有深度的评论，通过做这些事。

You're rated hopefully five stars and you write a thoughtful review by doing all of that.

你不断给我机会，让我做我痴迷的事情。

You are continually giving me the opportunity to do what I'm obsessed about.

为此，我将永远心怀感激。

And for that, I will forever be grateful.

非常非常感谢你。

Thank you so so much.

别太早下结论。

Talk to soon.

等不及了。

Can't wait.