《基业长青：走进霍尔曼物流公司，对话迈克·加德纳》

所以我总是跟我老婆讲这些乱七八糟的事。

That's why I try to tell my wife all these various incidents.

现在又来了伊朗战争。

And now we've got the war in Iran.

霍尔木兹海峡是开还是关。

The Strait Of Hormuz is open or closed.

我周末还跟她聊来着。

I was talking to her over the weekend.

我就说，我觉得这就是新常态了。

I just said, I think that's just the new normal.

以后我们大家都会不断遇到挑战。

There are gonna be continuing challenges for all of us.

部分原因就是我们比以前知道得更多了。

And part of it is just because we know more than we used to know.

对。

Yeah.

然而，在我成长的过程中，华盛顿特区是存在的。

And yet, when I was growing up, Washington DC existed.

我只是没有每天都听到它们。

I just didn't hear about them every single day.

你得去读。

You had to read it.

你得去看报纸。

You had to look in the newspaper.

你得真的去留意才能找到。

You had to, like, actually pay attention to find it.

现在它追着你跑，我不得不从我的播客中删掉。

Now it chases you down and I have to cut out of my podcast.

这不是一个政治播客。

It's not a political podcast.

但是，是的，世界上的很多挑战都摆在眼前，然而我们的世界比以往任何时候都更好。

But, yeah, it's so much of the challenges in the world are front and center, yet we have a better world than ever before.

不过，你们能坚持到现在，真的很不容易。

Yet, so you guys have survived all this time.

你说过，现在拥有公司的唐尼家族，他们是一百年前买下的。

And you said the the Downie family, which owns it now, they bought it a hundred years ago.

就算是一百年前，那也是了不起的成功。

Even a hundred years ago is an unbelievable success.

我不知道还有哪家物流公司能由同一个家族经营这么久。

I don't know that there's a logistics company that's been around in the same family.

我记得在开始录音之前，我跟你提到过鲁昂。

I think I talked to you about Rouen just before we hit record.

我记得鲁昂有九十年了，但你们比他们多经营了两代人。

I think they're ninety years with the Rouen, but you guys you had two generations longer.

这太不可思议了。

That's incredible.

是的。

Yeah.

这真是一份了不起的传承。

It's quite a legacy.

是的。

Yeah.

你说得对。

You're right.

对。

Yeah.

是的，没错。

And yeah.

那么，谈谈你们的……我知道你们有这个，我们之前通过邮件交流过。

So talk about your I know you guys have this we exchanged some emails.

我们在开始录音前也聊过。

We talked before we hit record.

你们有这种以人为本、绩效驱动的文化。

You have this people first performance driven culture.

跟我们说说，你是怎么在全国这么多地方保持这种文化的？

Talk about how you keep that culture going across all of these all of these locations across the country.

首先从安全说起。

It starts with safety.

对吧？

Right?

我们要提供合适的工作环境，要有一些核心价值观，并且要认可那些践行这些核心价值观的领导者和团队。

That we provide the right work environment, that we've got some core values, and we try to recognize the leaders and teams that live those core values.

我们有一个奖项，是为了纪念布莱恩的父亲。

We've got something to honor Brian's father.

叫做“鲍勃·唐尼传承奖”。

It's called the Bob Downie Legacy Award.

鲍勃有一句话，也算是一种信念，就是“能做”的态度。

Bob had this saying and kind of mantra about a can do attitude.

所以你想，我们是怎么挺过这一百年的？

So you think about how have we survived a hundred years?

对。

Yeah.

我们能做到。

We can do this.

挂掉电话。

Hang up the phone.

你不知道该怎么做，但你会想办法解决。

You're not sure how you're gonna do it, you're gonna try to figure it out.

所以就是那种韧性，我们一定要完成它。

So it's just that kind of resilience around we're gonna get this done.

我们会和团队一起完成，而且始终以客户为中心。

We're gonna get done with our team and again with the North Star being a customer.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

我经常对年轻人说，以前我在物流公司工作，招聘很多刚毕业的年轻人时，也总是这么说。

I always say to young people that I talk to and when I used to hire a lot of people, I was at a logistics company, I would hired a lot of young people out of school.

我总说，招人的时候，就看态度、技能和知识。

And I would always say, when I hired them, There's attitudes, skills, and knowledge.

我就看这三样。

That's all I'm gonna get.

技能我可以教你，你缺什么我教什么。

I can get you the skills you'll need, the ones you don't already have.

你会打电话吧。

You can pick up the phone.

会用电脑吧。

You can use computer.

会拼写、会说话吧。

You can spell and speak.

对吧？

Right?

会写邮件吧。

Write emails.

那是需要的技能。

That's a skill I need.

客户服务方面，我们会确保教你这些。

Customer service will get make sure we teach you that.

行业知识，你需要了解。

The knowledge, you're gonna need to the industry.

很多可以通过培训或在工作中学习。

You can learn a lot of that either through our training or through just on the job.

我说过，我不担心技能。

And I said, but I'm not worried about the skills.

我不担心技能，我担心的是态度。

I'm not worried about the I'm worried about the attitude.

因为如果态度对了，技能和知识就容易了。

Because if you can get the attitude piece right, the skills and knowledge are easy.

这些都能学到。

Can acquire those.

如果你没有好的态度，那好的态度是很难学来的。

It's hard to acquire a good attitude if you don't have one.

你说得太对了。

You're exactly right.

我跟你说，如果你能带着好态度去仓库工作，那你就是抢手货。

And I'm telling you, if you can bring a good attitude to a warehouse, you are in demand.

以前我觉得我们太看重大学文凭了。

In the past, I think we overvalued college degrees.

每个人都得拿个大学文凭。

Everyone has to get a college degree.

每个人都觉得，哦，你得有个大学文凭。

Everyone, oh, you gotta get a college degree.

不然就找不到好工作。

Can't have a good job.

我现在可以向你保证，如果你在仓库里不断学习，态度又好，那你的前途不可限量。

I guarantee you right now, if you're in a warehouse and you keep learning and you have a great attitude, the sky's the limit for you.

这不是十年前，或者有人说是十五、二十年前的事了。

It's not it's not ten years ago or somebody said fifteen, twenty years ago maybe.

我们会从大学里招一个学管理专业的年轻人，来当这个仓库这片区域的新主管。

We're gonna hire this young man out of college who's got a management degree to be the new head of this this part of the warehouse.

不。

Nope.

不。

Nope.

我们会提拔一个在我们这儿干了五年的员工，他真的很懂行。

We're bringing on a guy who we've had here for five years who really gets it.

这也是我们工作的一部分。

And that's part of what we do as well.

我们确实有一种文化，就是提倡内部晋升。

There is a real culture and talk about kind of bringing promoting from within.

很多团队成员都在这儿干了好几年了，这确实有助于建立那种文化和态度。

A lot of the team has been here a number of years, and it's it does help build that culture and that that attitude.

你说得完全对。

You're exactly right.

对。

Yeah.

我不想提名字，但有一家最大的包裹公司之一。

I had I I won't mention their name, but one of the largest parcel companies.

他们之前上过我们的播客，说他们很擅长招人，不一定要求大学学历。

They were on the podcast a while back, and they said, we we do a really good job of hiring people, not necessarily college degree.

我们培训他们。

We train them.

他们做了很多医疗相关的事情。

They were doing a lot of medical stuff.

他们说，我们培训他们所需的知识，然后拼命留住他们，因为我们意识到人员流动的成本有多高。

They said, we train them in what they need to know, and then we work like crazy to keep them because we realized how expensive it is to have turnover.

我觉得我最喜欢的公司之一是开市客。

And I think one of my favorite companies is Costco.

我不知道你有没有关注过好市多。

And I don't if you're pay attention to Costco.

他们一开始就给员工更高的工资，因为不想失去他们。

They pay more money upfront to their associates because they don't wanna lose them.

而且他们的员工第一年流失率大概是7%，他们说，这比大多数零售商的流失率要低得多。

And they have, I think, 7% turnover in the first year, and they said, which is a fraction of what most retailers have.

而且去过好市多的人都会说，对。

And anyone who goes to Costco, they go, yeah.

那些员工个个精神饱满。

Those people are shining on the spot.

他们关心顾客，因为公司关心他们。

They care because the company cares.

对。

Yeah.

住在西雅图，很难不知道好市多。

It's hard to live in Seattle and not know Costco.

哦，对。

Oh, that's right.

它朝上了。

It's faced up.

我跟你说过我女儿在波特兰，他们住的地方有个老Costco，我就说，我习惯了我家附近那个新的。

I told you my daughter's in Portland and they're they got an old Costco where they live and I was like, I'm used to the new one by my house.

我超喜欢那个地方。

I love that place.

我们这儿也有几家老店，布局是反的。

We got some older ones here too and the format is backwards.

我花了好一阵子才适应。

It's taken me a while to get used to it.

动线有点不一样。

The flow is a little bit different.

对。

Yeah.

我最近听了个播客叫《Acquired》，是个商业播客。

I just I listened to a podcast called Acquired, and it's a business podcast.

那几个人做了个三小时的播客，专门讲好市多。

These guys did a three hour podcast about Costco.

要是我能找到，我会把它放在节目笔记里。

If I can find it, I'll put it in the show notes.

里面讲到好市多的创立，那几个人有个愿景，就是真的要把顾客照顾好。

And it talks about the founding, and these guys had a vision of we're really gonna take care of our customers.

而且直到今天，我刚听人说，有些银行家跟好市多开会谈事情。

And to this day, I just heard somebody say this, some bankers were in meetings with Costco about something.

最后每个人都被问到，说说这对我们的会员有什么好处。

And each one of them was asked at the end, tell me how this is gonna be good for our members.

有些人就说，对你们有好处，你们能赚钱，然后好市多的人就说，告诉我们这对会员有什么好处。

And some of them were like, what's good for you're gonna make money, and they go, tell us how it's gonna be good for our members.

他们让每个人，如果答不上来，就回去想清楚再来告诉我们这对会员有什么好处。

And they made each one of them, if they didn't have an answer, come back and tell us how this is good for our members.

对。

Yeah.

我常说，你提到运营卓越。

And I always say, you talk about operational excellence.

我觉得他们大概有三千五到四千个SKU，比中西部这里的沃尔玛或迈耶少得多。

I think they're 3,500, 4,000 SKUs, way less than, say, Walmart or Meijer here in the Midwest.

而且，显然，他们的商业模式有点不同。

And, obviously, they're a little different business.

山姆·沃尔顿从好市多那里学来的，他自己也这么说过。

Sam Walton copied from Costco and said so.

山姆会员店就是在模仿好市多。

Sam's Club was copying Costco.

他去参观，和好市多的创始人共进晚餐，然后回家说，我要改变。

He went and visited, had dinner with the founder of Costco, and then went home and said, I'm gonna I'm gonna change it.

我觉得甚至更早的，如果你听说过沃尔玛、凯马特，它们都是以好市多的前身命名的，我想那是……我忘了。

I think even the predecessor, if you hear Walmart, Kmart, those were named after the predecessor to Costco, which I think was I forgot.

有些东西被标记了。

Something marked.

所以，是的，我会在节目笔记里放一个链接，你们有机会可以去听听。

So, yeah, I'll put a link to that in the show notes so you guys can listen to that if you get a chance.

是的。

Yeah.

他们是个难缠的客户。

They're a challenging customer.

我们有很多送货是给好市多的。

We do a lot of deliveries to Costco.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我们的很多客户都有产品进入好市多，这很令人兴奋。

A lot of our customers have have products that go into Costco, and it's it's exciting.

那说说那个整合，你们是不是每天都往好市多送货？

So talk about that that consolidate so you're delivering to Costco every day.

比如说一个新品牌。

So let's just say a new brand.

他们说，嘿。

They said, hey.

我们终于和好市多谈成了合作。

We just gotta finally got a deal with Costco.

我们一直在努力，现在他们要求我们支持好市多，他们是不是说现在必须支持我们在三十个仓库、三十个地点，然后他们来找你，你说，我们能帮你？

We were working on it, and now we've gotta support do they does Costco say they now have to support us across thirty thirty warehouse thirty thirty locations, and then they come to you and you say, we can help you?

这可能是其中一种情况，或者有些品牌和好市多有全国性的合作。

It's a combination of that or some have national deals with Costco.

有时候好市多会派自己的车队来取货。

Sometimes Costco sends their fleet in to pick it up.

有时候我们送货，其实就是各种情况都有。

Sometimes we deliver it's just really all the above.

我们认识好市多的人。

We we know the people at Costco.

我们知道怎么进入好市多。

We know how to get into Costco.

所以是的，这绝对是我们帮助一些客户的方式之一。

So yeah, that's absolutely part of how we can help some of our customers.

哦，我个人很喜欢去那里，但我也很钦佩这些公司。

Oh, I love I personally love going there, but I also I admire these companies.

他们不是唯一的一家。

They're not the only one.

我觉得还有乔氏超市、奥乐齐。

I think Trader Joe's, ALDI.

奥乐齐现在是增长最快的杂货店。

ALDI is the fastest growing grocery store right now.

和克罗格及其他超市相比，他们的单品数量很少，我觉得这不是偶然的。

Very few SKUs compared to Kroger and the others, and I don't think that's by accident.

我觉得管理3500个单品比管理10万个单品要容易得多，就像你看到的那样。

I think it's a lot easier to manage 3,500 SKUs than a 100,000 SKUs like you see.

我觉得沃尔玛也能做到这一点。

I think Walmart's up to that.

顺便说一句，它们是不同的商店。

And by the way, they're different stores.

沃尔玛做得显然非常出色。

Walmart's obviously fantastic what they do.

我去沃尔玛的时候，刚去过。

And when I go to Walmart, I just was there.

我同时买了一个床架和日用品。

I bought a a bed frame and groceries at the same time.

所以这就是我对沃尔玛的期望。

So that's what I want from my Walmart.

你去好市多的时候，千万别带老婆去。

I just you have to make sure you don't take your wife with you when you go to Costco.

那是

That's

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

顺便说一句，我姐姐说她受不了好市多。

By the way, my my sister says, I can't stand Costco.

而她丈夫，当然，他超爱去。

And her husband, of course, he loves it.

他老是往那儿跑。

He's going there constantly.

他特别爱喝葡萄酒，而且他是意大利人，在南非长大，家里有超棒的葡萄酒。

He is really big into wine, and he's Italian and grew up in South Africa, has fantastic wine.

他超爱好市多。

And he loves Costco.

他说，所以当我去那儿的时候，我说，我要挑一瓶葡萄酒。

He says this so when I've been there, I say, I'm picking up a bottle of wine.

他说，哇。

He goes, woah.

哇。

Woah.

等等。

Wait.

你在哪儿？

Where are you at?

他说，我想让你去拿，然后他详细描述了具体位置和哪瓶酒。

He goes, I want you to pick it up, and he describes exactly where it's at and what bottle.

我说，好的。

I'm like, okay.

感觉他就像如鱼得水一样。

It's like he's in his element.

听起来像我女儿。

Sounds like my daughter.

嘿，老爸。

Hey, dad.

把这个捡起来。

Pick this up.

所以我想谈谈这种真正的伙伴关系模式。

So I wanna talk about this this true partnership model.

我知道我们在按下录音键之前已经讨论过这个。

I know we talked about this before we hit the record button.

就是你不希望只是交易关系。

Is you don't wanna be transactional.

如果你只是交易关系，你就无法得到你们想要的那种结果。

You can't be transactional and get the kind of results that you guys wanna get.

如果有人出现并说，嘿。

If somebody shows up and says, hey.

我们不想做你的入职培训。

We're we don't wanna do your orientation.

我们不想花时间去帮你了解我们。

We don't wanna we don't want to spend the time to help you understand us.

我们不会完全整合我们的系统。

We're not gonna integrate our systems completely.

我们只是想试试你。

We're just gonna try you out.

这行不通。

It doesn't work.

我觉得你必须要有这样的决心：我要去筛选。

I feel like you have to have the dedication of I'm going to vet.

我要为我们挑选最好的合作伙伴，然后投入这段关系，直到它成功。

I'm gonna pick the very best partner for us, and then I'm gonna invest in that partnership until it works.

对。

Yeah.

我同意。

I agree.

我们做过的一件事是，有些客户可以追溯到上世纪六十年代。

One of the things we've done, some of our customers date back to the nineteen sixties.

所以，大型跨国客户从六十年代就有了。

So large multinational customer back to the nineteen sixties.

想想看。

Think about that.

其他的则是八十年代开始的。

Others are in the nineteen eighties.

所以我们一直在投入这段关系。

So we've invested in the relationship.

他们也投入了这段关系。

They've invested in the relationship.

这有点像婚姻。

It's a bit of a marriage.

我们整合系统。

We integrate systems.

我们了解他们的期望。

We understand their expectations.

我们提供完整的解决方案。

We provide a full solution.

所以很多时候，这包括车队，这样我们就能把货送到他们的客户手中。

So oftentimes, it includes the fleet so we can deliver to their customers.

另外，我们喜欢加入利益共享机制。

And the other thing we like to do is include gain sharing.

他们赢了。

They win.

哦，我喜欢这个。

Oh, I like that.

他们赢，我们也赢。

They win, we win.

然后你们一起合作，想办法省点钱。

And you work together to try to create opportunities to save a bit of money.

你之前在我们加入前提到的一个例子，就是你以前的一个客户，不一定要是最便宜的。

One of examples you talked about before we joined was one of your former clients and not gonna be the cheapest.

但为客户创造价值的一个方法就是一起合作，解决问题，然后，嘿，我们分享收益，分享好处。

But one way to get to the value for the customer is to work together, solve a problem, and then, hey, let's share the gain, share the benefit.

对。

Yep.

有两家公司在我的播客上说过这个。

Two companies said it on my podcast.

Ruon的安全副总裁说过，还有Joyce Brenny。

Ruon, their vice president of safety, said this, and then Joyce Brenny.

她经营着Brenny Trucking。

She owns Brenny Trucking.

他们都说，人们从我们这里购买是因为他们认同我们的价值观，这很不一样。

They both said, people buy from us because they share our values, and that's different.

当你和客户价值观一致时，你们之间的承诺程度就会不同。

And when you share values with your customers, are you there's gonna be a different level of commitment.

当你说，嘿。

And when you say, hey.

你为什么选择Rowan？

Why'd you go with Rowan?

因为他们是公路上最安全的卡车运输公司之一，这对我们很重要。

Because they are one of the safest over the road trucking companies that and that's important to us.

好的。

Okay.

所以你不会因为有人说，嘿，他们最便宜，就离开。

They so you don't leave at the first if somebody says, hey.

猜猜怎么着？

Because they're cheapest, guess what?

下周就会有别人更便宜。

There's gonna be someone else cheapest next week.

便宜不是一种策略。

Cheap is not a strategy.

当我们谈到真正的合作伙伴模式时，我记得在按下录音键之前我们就说过这个。

And when we talk about true partnership model, I said I think we said it before we hit the record button.

现在，我们有网络安全问题，而网络安全问题往往演变成货物安全问题。

Right now, we have cybersecurity issues, and cybersecurity issues often turn into cargo security issues.

货物盗窃在我们行业一直是个问题。

And cargo theft has been a problem in our industry.

如果你和供应商有长期合作关系，你可能就不会遇到这个问题。

And if you have long term relationship with your suppliers, you probably don't have that problem.

我并不是反对自动化。

And I'm not against automation.

我们完全支持自动化。

We're all for automation.

那种即使你不认识对方也能自动选车的技术，我觉得我们都支持。

The technology that allows somebody to automatically pick a truck even if you don't know who they are, I think we're all for that.

但这同时也给一些不法分子打开了方便之门，他们非常老练，我们已经看到了后果。

But that has also let the door open to some bad actors, and they're very sophisticated, and we've seen the results.

而且如果你是给客户供货的公司，比如给好市多或者其他大型零售商供货，我觉得如果发生货物被盗，他们肯定不会高兴。

And if you're if you're a company that's providing product to your customers, to Costco or to some of the other big box stores, I don't think they're gonna like it very much if there's a cargo theft.

而且这是个很大的问题。

And it's a huge issue.

我最近参加了另一个播客节目。

I recently was on another podcast.

那个节目叫“欺诈女孩”。

It was fraud girl.

主持人叫丹妮尔·斯皮内利。

It's Danielle Spinelli.

我跟一个朋友说过，他是律师，他说，嘿，乔。

And I said one of my friends, he's an attorney, he said, hey, Joe.

我刚在脸书市场上看到。

I was just on Facebook Marketplace.

我看到我可以买一托盘的床单。

I see I could buy a pallet of linens.

我当时就想，他单身，从来没结过婚。

I was like, he's single, never married.

我们就是在那儿看足球的。

That's where we watch football.

我说，那你拿一托盘干嘛？

I go, but what are you gonna do with a palette?

你连床单都没有，更别说一整托盘了。

You don't even have any linens, let alone a whole palette.

然后我说，那是偷来的。

And I said, that's stolen.

就是这么回事。

That's what that is.

所以，在Facebook Marketplace和eBay这些地方，我觉得最后会有大量偷来的东西。

They so we have Facebook Marketplace and eBay and other places where I believe a whole bunch of stolen stuff ends up.

这些不是那种长期合作关系，比如你说我跟Holman Logistics合作了二十五年。

Not those aren't happening in the long term relationships where you say I've been working with Holman Logistics for the last twenty five years.

你的东西不会被偷的。

You're not gonna get your stuff stolen.

也不是说完全不可能，但可能性小多了。

It's and not to say it can't happen, but it's a lot less likely.

但你看，这些长期合作关系有趣的地方在于，问题总会有的。

But see, what's interesting too about these long term partnerships is there will be issues.

供应链会出现中断。

There will be disruptions in supply chain.

会有发错货的情况。

There will be miss shipments.

可能还会丢个拖车。

There may be a stolen trailer.

对吧？

Right?

当这些事情发生时，并不意味着关系的结束。

When those things happen, it's not the end of the relationship.

对吧？

Right?

你们一起合作，找出问题所在，然后纠正它。

You work together, you identify what happened, and you correct it.

有个客户，我们遇到了盗窃，有人闯进了仓库。

Had a customer that we had a theft broke into the warehouse.

警察来了，以为大楼安全了，就走了。

Police responded, thought the building was secured, left.

那些坏人，不法分子还在楼里。

The bad guys, bad actors were still in the building.

他们知道警察不会再来第二次，所以就把门撬开了。

And they know the police aren't coming back twice, so they popped the doors.

警报又响了，但警察还是不会再来第二次。

The alarms went off again, but again, the police aren't gonna come a second time.

他们装好货就跑了，这种事就是会发生。

Loaded the trailer and left and it happens.

我记得给客户的CEO打电话，说，嘿，事情是这样的，他非常理解。

And I remember calling the CEO of our customer saying, hey, here's what happened and very understanding.

我说，我们会赔偿产品。

And I said, we'll pay for the product.

他说，哦，我知道你们会。

He said, oh, I know you will.

我

I

当时我在一家小型第三方物流公司，我们只有，我们没有，我们无法从零担运输承运商那里获得好的价格，除非我们拿到他们所有的业务。

was at a little 3PL and we only had we didn't have we couldn't get great pricing from the LTL carriers unless we had all their business.

我们不能做任何零散交易。

We couldn't do anything transactional.

如果我们得到一个客户，就拿到他们所有的货运。

If we got a customer, got all their freight.

而且，当然，你得和200个不想建立那种关系的人谈。

And, of course, you have to have that conversation with 200 people who don't wanna have that type of relationship.

我总说，你可以把Excel表格发给你合作的所有第三方物流公司和货运代理，我们每周都会填写。

And I would always say, you are you are you wanna send an Excel spreadsheet to all the 3PLs you work with, all the freight brokers you work with, and we all fill that out every week.

然后呢，你们会选最便宜的价格吗？

And then and will you go with the cheapest price?

是的。

Yep.

我说，你确信这是最便宜的经营方式吗？

And I said, and you're convinced that's the cheapest way to do business?

她说，是的。

She said, yeah.

我说，我有一些客户，当我们搞砸了，或者货物没按时到达时，我们会去码头把货救回来，然后加急处理。

I said, I have customers that when I screw up, when we don't it's not on time, we'll go rescue it off the dock and expedite it.

她说，那得额外收费吧。

And she goes, well, that costs extra.

我说，我们付钱，因为那是我们的错。

I go, we pay for it because it's our fault.

我跟她说，你没法对那种只讲交易的人做这种投入。

And I said, you can't make that investment in someone who is transactional.

我说，我明白，我们也说过，那批货我们不收你钱，或者我们会把那次运输的所有利润都扣掉，因为我们没做到该做的事。

I said, I get we've also said we're not billing you for that shipment, or we're gonna we're gonna take all the profit off of that movement because we didn't do something we were supposed to do.

长期的好处真的比那种只讲交易的做法强多了，那是省了一分钱，却让自己亏了一毛钱。

The long term long term benefits really outweigh that transactional approach, and it's saving a penny and costing yourself a dime.

这样做生意太傻了。

Silly way to do business.

你永远说服不了任何人，我得这么说。

You're not gonna ever convince anyone I gotta say that.

一个人。

One person.

大概两百次这样的谈话里，我只说服了一个人。

I convinced one person out of probably 200 of those conversations.

他说，不。

And he said, no.

我明白。

I get it.

我明白。

I get it.

他是个老采购，他说，我明白。

He's an old purchasing guy, and he said, I get it.

我喜欢这个。

I like it.

他说，我一直不喜欢中间商这个概念。

He goes, I never liked the idea of middleman.

我总说，你怎么能说我是中间商？

And I would always say, how do you call me a middleman?

我带来了一个团队。

I'm bringing a team.

我带来了技术，而且我比你自己拿货还便宜。

I'm bringing technology, and I'm cheaper than what you get it for.

我就说，你去杂货店买东西，会因为自己没法直接从产地拿香蕉而指责他们是中间商吗？还是你就直接买一把香蕉，然后就算了？

I was like, do you go to the grocery store and accuse them of being a middleman because you can't get your own bananas from the source, or do you just buy a bunch of bananas and leave it at that?

最后我想跟你聊的是关于现代能力这个想法。

The last point I wanna talk to you about is this whole idea of, like, modern capabilities.

所以有人坐在那家老公司里。

So somebody sits on this old company.

就像，天哪。

It's like, oh, god.

他们可能很古老了。

They're probably ancient.

他们可能很破旧了。

They're probably decrepit.

对吧？

Right?

他们就是，这是你脑子里冒出的第一个念头。

They it's this that's the first thought you have.

但是各位，你们能在这里待一百六十二年，是因为你们一直在投资。

But you guys the reason you're here after a hundred and sixty two years is because you've made the investments.

你们跟上了时代，显然也拥有与世界大公司以及我最喜欢的像Costco这样的公司做生意所需的技术。

You've kept up, and obviously have the technology necessary to do business with the biggest companies in the world and some of my favorite like Costco.

那就谈谈这个吧。

So talk about that.

对。

Yeah.

我们喜欢称自己为一家有思想的公司。

We like to call ourselves a thinking company.

对吧？

Right?

我们有很多聪明的年轻人才。

We've got a lot of bright young talent.

是的。

Yeah.

我们的想法可能比一些大公司要小一些。

We got ideas being a little smaller than some.

作为家族企业，我们行动很快。

We're able to move pretty quickly against a family owned business.

比如，我们开发了一个AI工具，用在叉车上。

We identify we've got an AI tool, for example, that we put on our forklifts.

这样我们就能看到所有发生的事情。

So we can see everything that happens.

我用它来做指导和培训。

I use that for coaching and training.

我们很快就做到了。

We did that very quickly.

我们会尝试新事物。

And we try things out.

我们试过一些自动驾驶叉车。

We tried some autonomous forklifts.

这项技术并不符合我们的需求。

Technology didn't fit the solution that we needed.

所以我们放弃了。

So we dropped it.

所以你可以尝试一些东西，你知道，想一想。

So you could try something, you know, you think about it.

车间里有人有个想法。

Somebody on the floor has an idea.

你去试试。

You try it.

如果有效。

It works.

如果无效。

It doesn't work.

然后继续前进。

And you move on.

所以我们非常灵活，能够部署各种技术。

So we're pretty nimble and able to deploy various technologies.

对。

Yep.

所以。

So.

这不容易。

It's not easy.

你们是排名前100的第三方物流公司。

You guys are a top 100 at 3PL.

所以随着规模变大，保持灵活并不容易。

So it's not easy to stay nimble as you get big.

但作为私有企业，这是一个超能力。

But being privately owned, that is a superpower.

我之前和Acquired Global Logistics的Doug Wagner聊过，他们曾经是上市公司，后来又变回私有企业了。

I've talked to Doug Wagner from Acquired Global Logistics a while back, and they went they were publicly traded, and then they went back to privately owned.

他说，当你有大的所有权结构时，不一定非得是上市公司，如果有很多股东，他们对业务怎么运营有不同想法，比如来自纽约的。

And he said, when you have a big ownership model, and it doesn't necessarily have to be publicly traded, if you have a whole bunch of owners who are say different ideas about how the business should be run from New York.

对吧？

Right?

你可以想象这会拖慢决策，也可能让你重新考虑一个会让本季度业绩看起来更差的投资。

You can see how that would slow down and also maybe make you reconsider an investment that's gonna make this quarter's numbers look weaker.

当你是私有企业时，你会说，不。

When you have private ownership, you say, nope.

我们要做正确的事。

We're gonna do what is right.

我们会思考，然后做对的事情。

We're gonna think about it and do the right thing.

而且我们可以和客户坐下来谈。

And we can sit with our customers.

他们有个想法。

They have an idea.

我们有个想法。

We have an idea.

我们可以去做。

We can go do it.

对。

Yep.

对。

Yep.

是的。

Yeah.

随着规模变大，这并不总是容易的。

That's that isn't always easy as you get big.

但再说，你们已经搞明白了，因为你们已经存在了一百六十二年。

But, again, you guys have figured it out because you've been around a hundred and sixty two years.

我明白了。

I got it.

我做这个播客已经八年了，还没跟任何人聊过这么久的。

I I've been doing this podcast for eight years, and I've not talked to anyone anywhere near that.

再说，我觉得鲁万可能是我聊过的最老的公司。

Again, think Ruwan's probably the oldest company I talked to.

他们大概，我想想，可能92年了吧。

They're probably I think they're 92 maybe.

那太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

而你们，又比他们老两代。

And you guys, again, two generations older than that.

我们之前也聊过一些人。

And we talked about people before.

有个叫道格·斯旺森的，开了五十一年的叉车。

We've got a guy, Doug Swanson, who has been driving a forklift for fifty one years.

那挺好的。

That's nice though.

他能找到归宿，那挺好的。

That's nice that he found a home.

五十一年了。

Fifty one years.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

然后我问他，你不工作的时候都干什么？

And I said, what do you do when you're not working?

他说，我就工作。

He goes, I just work.

我热爱这个地方。

I love this place.

我跟你说，我昨晚和几个哥们儿喝酒，有个朋友退休了，我们都看着他，心想，你打算怎么打发时间啊，老兄？

I'm telling you, have I was I met some buddies for drinks last night and I have a friend who's retired and we're all kinda looking at him going, what are you gonna do with yourself, dude?

你辛苦工作已经很长时间了。

You've been working hard for a long time.

我就是不（知道）。

I just don't.

他说，我会培养一些爱好。

He goes, I'm gonna have some hobbies.

我当时想，如果达不到那个水平，这些爱好可能会很激烈。

I was like, they're gonna be pretty intense hobbies if you can't do them at that level.

我们不是天生就该退休的，我确信。

We're not meant we're not meant to be retired, I'm convinced.

我知道那个故事。

I know that story.

我有一个女婿，他是财务规划师。

I have a I have a son-in-law who is a financial planner.

他刚开始做财务规划工作后，他说他在一家大公司。

And right after he started working in financial planning, he said he's at a big company.

他说，整天都有客户打电话来聊他们的投资组合。

And he said, all day long, we get phone calls from guys who are talking about their portfolio.

他还说，很多时候，我们已经知道该怎么处理了。

And he goes, lot of times, we're we already know what we're doing with them.

我们一直在管理。

We're managing it.

所以他们才找我们。

That's why they have us.

他说，但他们整天都在看新闻。

He goes, but they've been watching the news all day.

他还说，很多时候，新闻就在背景里放着。

And he goes, and a lot of times, there's the news is out in the background.

他说，我们会把客户听的频道记在客户管理系统里。

And he said, we put whatever station they were listening to in the CRM.

他说，这是另一回事。

He goes, that's another thing.

他们总是把电视声音开得很大，所以你都能听清他们电视里在放什么。

They're always listening too loud so you can hear exactly what's going on on their TV.

他说，他们有时候很有钱，他说，多到足够退休了，他说，但他们太精明了，不会退休。

And he said, they have a lot of money sometimes, he goes, more than enough money to be retired, he goes, but they're too sharp to be retired.

所以他们转而折腾自己的投资组合。

So they mess with their portfolio instead.

他说，你最好回去。

And he goes, you'd be better off going back.

去做点别的事。

Go do something.

是的。

Yep.

总之，我说得够多了。

Anyway, enough of my blather.

迈克，我来总结一下我们今天聊的内容，然后我想听听你对这个话题的最终看法。

I'm gonna summarize what we talked about today, Mike, and then I wanna get your final thoughts on the topic.

所以我在和我的朋友迈克·加德纳聊天，我们聊的是霍尔曼物流。

So I'm talking to my friend, Mike Gardner, and we're talking about Holman Logistics.

霍尔曼物流能长久发展，已经有162年的历史了。

So built to last inside Holman Logistics, 162 years old.

今天我们聊了五个重点，这些就是让你们能坚持162年的一些因素。

And if we talked about five big points today and these are some of the things that allowed you guys to stick around for a 162.

而且，你知道，我们今天早上还通过邮件交流过这个话题，就是关于运营安全。

And, you know, we exchanged some emails this morning about the same topic, is the whole idea of operational safety.

运营安全不仅仅是保护员工的安全。

Operational safety isn't just about keeping people safe.

它是建立一个基础，不仅重视员工，而且也是一个值得养成的好习惯。

It's about building a foundation that not only values the worker, but also is a really good habit to acquire.

如果你在一个大型设施里把安全做好了，其他很多事情也会跟着做好。

If you're getting safety right in a big facility, you're also getting a whole bunch of other things right.

如果你在一个设施里安全做得不好，我敢保证其他很多事情也会出问题。

If you're getting safety wrong in a facility, I guarantee there's a whole bunch of other things going wrong.

我是搞汽车的，以前在工程部门工作的时候，我们有安全部件。

I'm an automotive guy, and when I used to work in engineering, we had safety parts.

安全部件总是要经过更多的测试。

Safety parts always had to be tested a lot more.

我就不提那个汽车厂商了，但有一次我们单独做了一项研究，测试了一大批这样的部件，结果发现即使是我们的安全部件，质量水平也没达到我们的要求。

I won't mention the OEM, but we tested a whole bunch of these parts one time as a separate study and found out that even our safety parts did not have the quality level that we wanted them to.

我们当时就想，这些可是安全部件啊。

And we're like, these are the safety parts.

那对于那些不被视为安全的部件，我们又在做什么呢？

What are we doing for the other parts that are not deemed safety?

所以，总之，运营安全超级重要。

So, anyway, operational safety, super important.

这也是你们能坚持一百六十二年的原因之一。

One of the reasons you guys have around for a hundred and sixty two years.

而且，除了安全，还要有一种把运营做好的文化。

And, again, beyond safety, just having a culture of let's get the operations right.

让我们把事情做好。

Let's get them clean.

以人为本，绩效驱动。

People first, performance driven.

当世界上最大的公司，比如好市多这样的巨头，都和你合作，并且像对待其他客户一样对待他们时，你就必须以人为本，才能实现绩效驱动。

When you have the biggest companies in the world working with you, the the Costco's of the world, and then talk about it like your other customers, it you have to be people first so you can be performance driven.

但别搞错，这些公司对绩效要求很高。

But make no mistake, those companies demand performance.

不能只是说，嘿。

It can't be like, hey.

大家在这里唱赞歌。

Everybody's here singing Kumbaya.

我相信肯定有些日子非常艰难。

I'm sure there's some very difficult days.

不是每个人，不是每个人都在工作时哼着小曲，但如果你做对了，你就能同时兼顾好人的方面和绩效的方面。

Not everyone's not everyone's humming while they work, but if you do it right, you can get both the people part right and their performance part right.

我们还谈到了真正的合作伙伴模式的重要性。

We also talked about the importance of the true proof true partnership model.

你不是在约会。

You're not get you're not dating.

你不是在订婚。

You're not engaged.

你是结婚了。

You're married.

所以花时间好好考察那个第三方物流公司。

So take the time and vet that 3PL.

虽然我们没聊到这个，但我敢保证，Holman 公司过去肯定拒绝过一些公司，说谢谢，但不用了。

And I I and I we didn't talk about it, but I guarantee there's companies that Holman has talked to over time and said, thanks, but no thanks.

我在播客里和私下里跟很多仓储公司聊过。

I've talked to a lot of warehousing companies on my podcast and separately off my podcast.

最糟糕的那些，惹上麻烦的那些，对每个新客户都说好。

The worst ones, the ones who get in trouble, say yes to every new customer.

而且我知道你为什么这么做。

And I know why you do it.

我自己也是小企业的粉丝。

I'm a small business fan myself.

说“是”很容易，因为下周就能拿到钱，但如果选错了客户，他们会把你逼到破产。

It's really easy to say yes because you're getting the money next week, but they are going to drive you out of business if you pick the wrong customers.

而且在仓储行业，尤其是在疫情期间，每个人都在做电商品牌，那些小公司几乎不可能让你赚到钱。

And and in the warehousing business, especially during COVID when everyone was starting an ecommerce brand, those little companies are almost impossible to make money on.

他们自己都不了解自己的业务。

They don't know their own business.

你也搞不清楚。

You can't figure it out either.

最后但同样重要的是，我们谈到了现代能力与传统价值。

Last but not least, we talked about modern capabilities, heritage values.

你们已经存在很久了，但显然一直在不断适应。

You guys have been around a long time, but obviously kept adapting.

你们虽然可能有162年的历史，但你们并没有用162年前的观念来经营企业。

You're not in the might be a 162 years old, but you're not using a 162 year old ideas to run the business.

好了，我就不多说了。

Anyway, enough of my blather.

给这个话题画个圆满的句号吧，迈克。

Put a big old bow on this one, Mike.

最后说说你的想法。

Final thoughts on the topic.

嗯，再说一次，安全是一个不断追求零事故的过程，它确实能营造一个很棒的工作环境。

Well, again, safety is a journey to zero and really creates an environment that's a great place to work.

而这正是我们努力想要创造的。

And that's really what we're trying to create.

所以，就像你说的，我们能给客户带来好的体验。

So again, as you say, we can deliver the right experience for the customer.

作为一家有想法的公司，希望我们能带来一些好的想法和解决方案。

And being a thinking company, hopefully we can bring some good ideas, good solutions.

正如我之前提到的，我认为利益共享是建立长期合作伙伴关系的方式。

And as I mentioned before, gain sharing, I think, is the way to build that long term partnership.

所以我们带来想法，分享收益，最终大家都能赢。

So we bring ideas, we share the benefit, and everybody wins at the end of the day.

对。

Yep.

那么，对你来说，理想的客户类型是什么样的？

And who's the ideal type of customer for you?

我指的不只是行业，而是你寻求的合作伙伴价值观。

I don't mean just in terms of industry, but in terms of the partnership values you're looking for.

通常倾向于中型市场客户。

It tends to be kind of the middle market customer.

我们与跨国公司有一些长期合作关系，我们珍视这些关系。

And we've got some long standing relationships with multinationals and we value those relationships.

新兴客户，我称之为中型市场，就是其中之一。

Kind of the emerging customer is one I call it the middle market.

他们可能有大供应链团队，也可能没有。

They may or may not have a big supply chain team.

他们真正看重的是我们带来的价值观，就像你刚才提到的共同价值观。

They're really looking to they value kind of the values that we bring, back to your point about kind of shared values.

他们寻找的是创意。

And they look for ideas.

他们非常欢迎并接受我们能带来的想法。

They look and really embrace the thinking that we can bring bring to the table.

根据我在播客中学到的，中型市场公司往往从这样的合作中获益最多。

From what I've learned on my podcast, it seems as if the middle market companies often gain the most from a a partnership like this.

大公司大概知道自己想要什么。

The big companies kinda know what they want.

他们经验丰富。

They've been around.

他们有更多的能力和资金来投入。

They have a little more capability, a little more money to spend.

中型市场公司正在努力想办法进入大联盟，他们需要一个合作伙伴，能对他们说，是的。

The mid market are trying to figure out how do we get to the big leagues, and they need a partner who says, yeah.

我们已经在顶级行列了。

We already play in the big leagues.

我们会带你一起。

We'll take you with.

对。

Yeah.

我们可以展示给你看。

We could show you.

这里有一些我们合作的顶级公司，还有一些想法，是的，我们可以帮你解决那个问题。

Here's some of the big leagues players that we have, some of the ideas we have, and, yeah, we could take care of that problem.

对。

Yeah.

我们在这里没有过多讨论，但运营效率，作为真正优秀的运营者，这也体现在你的准时交付表现上。

And we didn't touch on it too much here, but that operational efficiency, being really good operators, that that also shows up in your on time performance.

我们跟沃尔玛谈的时候，会提到OTIF，就是准时且完整交付。

And we talk about with Walmart, OTIF, on time and in full.

但每个大型供应链都有自己的准时且完整交付的版本。

But every every major supply chain has some version of on time and in full.

我经常说，如果你因为缺货被品牌方罚了1500美元，然后你说，哦，我现在对我的第三方物流很生气。

And I say it all the time is, yeah, you get if you got charged as a brand $1,500 because you were out of stock, and you say, oh, now I'm angry with my 3PL.

那1500或1800美元的罚款，其实是个小数目。

That $1,500 or $1,800 that you got billed, that's the small number.

你能衡量的更大的损失是，你刚刚伤害了和大型卖场的关系。

The bigger number that you can ever measure is you just hurt your relationship with a huge big box store.

他们在评估你。

They're judging you.

他们也有记分卡。

They got scorecards too.

还有，我们作为消费者，当我们到店里说，我想买这种花生酱，但货架上没有。

Also, us consumers, when we get there and say, I want to buy this type of peanut butter, but it's not there.

我会试试别的。

I'll try something else.

你不知道你失去了多少顾客。

You don't know how many customers you lost.

所以运营效率看起来，哦，我能大概知道，因为那1500美元我付了多少次。

So operational efficiency seems like, oh, I can kinda tell because the $1,500 how many times I pay that.

那些缺货或者同样糟糕的库存过多，这些是无声的杀手，因为你并不总能衡量。

Those out of stock or just as bad, way too much stock, those are those are the silent killers because you can't always measure it.

你处于糟糕的境地，却浑然不知。

You're in a bad place and you don't know it.

而且这往往可以追溯到那些公司雇佣了最低成本的供应商。

And oftentimes that dates back to you to those companies hiring the lowest cost provider.

是的。

Yep.

是的。

Yep.

对。

Yep.

嗯，再说，如果你们是真正的合作伙伴，他们会尽一切努力来维持这段关系。

Well, again, if you have a true partnership, they're gonna do everything they can to make sure they maintain that relationship.

总之，迈克，我会确保把你的领英资料链接、你的网站链接，以及你和你的市场团队给我的任何链接都放上去。

Anyway, what I'll do, Mike, is I'll make sure I put a link to your LinkedIn profile, link to your website, any of the links you and your go to market team give me.

我会把这些放在节目说明里，这样人们就可以联系你、和你交流。

I'll put those in the show notes so people can reach out and talk to you.

你们会参加哪些会议？

What conferences will we see you guys at?

我其实已经知道了，因为今天我和你的人聊过。

I kinda already know this because I talked to your man, today.

你们会参加所有主要的会议，但你们关注的是哪些？

You guys go to all the major conferences, but what's on your radar?

所有主要的食品会议。

All the major food conferences.