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大家好。
Hello, friends.
欢迎来到物流伯爵的物流世界。
Welcome to the logistics of Logistics Viscount.
我叫乔·林奇。
My name is Joe Lynch.
非常感谢大家今天参加。
Thank you so much for joining us today.
今天我们要聊的是物流管理者如何提升销售业绩，我的朋友特雷·格里格斯会和我一起分享。
Today's topic is sales insights for logistics leaders with my friend Trey Griggs.
特雷，最近怎么样？
How's it going, Trey Griggs?
挺好的，乔。
Good, Joe.
谢谢你邀请我来。
Thanks for having me on.
又见到你了，真好。
Good to see you again, man.
是的。
Yeah.
好久没见了。
It's been a minute.
我在一次会议上见过你。
I saw you at a conference.
我们偶尔通个电话，但能在播客里好好聊聊真不错。
We talk on the phone every once in a while, but good to catch up with you on the podcast.
特雷，你来介绍一下自己和你的公司吧。
Trey, please introduce yourself and your companies.
我知道你身兼数职。
I know you do you wear a number of different hats.
请介绍一下你自己、你的公司，还有你今天在哪儿连线。
Please introduce yourself and your companies and where you're calling from today.
我叫特雷·格里格斯。
I'm Trey Griggs.
我目前在密苏里州圣路易斯郊外的一个小镇叫威尔德伍德。
I'm calling from Saint Louis, Missouri, actually just outside of Saint Louis in a little town called Wildwood, Missouri.
我已经在这个行业干了十三年了。
I've been in the industry for about thirteen years now.
真不敢相信时间过得这么快。
It's hard to believe how fast it's going.
我大部分时间都在做销售和市场相关的工作。
Almost always in sales and marketing.
三年半前，我创办了自己的公司，帮企业设计市场进入策略，优化他们的品牌表达、客户证言、邮件营销、社交媒体活动，还有展会方案——只要是能帮他们吸引关注、激发兴趣、推动业务的事，我都做。
And about three and a half years ago, I started my own company to consult companies on their go to market strategies, help them with lot of their messaging, their testimonials, their email campaigns, their social media campaigns, their trade show strategy, just whatever it is that's gonna help move the needle, get some attention, build some curiosity around what they do.
另外我还组织一些有趣的高尔夫球赛，叫‘Post and Pray Classic’。
And then I have some fun organizing some golf tournaments called the post and pray classic.
我刚完成了一本关于自我觉察力量的书稿，今年年底就要出版了，我也围绕这个主题做主题演讲。
And then I also just finished my first manuscript from my book that's gonna be coming out at the end this year on the power of self awareness, and I do some keynote speaking around that.
你可真是忙得不可开交啊。
You're a busy man, busy man.
Trey，为了让大家更清楚，你主要服务哪些人？帮他们解决什么问题？
Trey, just to make it simple for everyone, who do you serve and what problem do you solve for them?
我主要帮运输和物流行业的创业者、创始人以及行业内的领导者，优化他们的市场进入策略，让他们更有效地与客户沟通，真正推动销售增长，缩短销售周期，提升收入。
I serve transportation and logistics, entrepreneurs, founders primarily, leaders in the space, and I help them with their go to market strategies that are gonna help them communicate with their audience better and really move the needle from a sales perspective, create that air cover that that's gonna speed up their sales cycles and increase their revenue.
对。
Yes.
在录之前，我们提到‘市场进入策略’这个词。
And before we hit the record button, we use the term go to market.
我还跟你提过，Kara Smith Brown，她是一位非常出色的营销专家。
And I mentioned to you that Kara Smith Brown, obviously, great marketer.
她也出过书。
She wrote a book also.
她上过我们节目好几次了。
She's been on the podcast multiple times.
卡娜·史密斯·布朗用‘上市策略’这个词而不是‘营销’，因为她觉得‘营销’这个词容易让人联想到跟销售没关系。
Kara Smith Brown uses the term go to market rather than marketing because she feels like sometimes marketing, there's connotations with it, which is, oh, it's not sales.
在录播之前，你跟我说过，咱们得别再把销售和营销当成两个互不相干的盒子了。
And you said to me before we hit the record button, we gotta stop looking at sales and marketing as these distinct buckets.
然后，我记得是你或我提到过，最厉害的营销人，其实也是最厉害的销售人。
And then in I think you said or I said, one of us, said the best marketers are the best salespeople.
你真正该找的就是这样的人合作。
That's who you wanna work with.
过去二十年，我们把太多精力花在了陌生电话上，最近五到十年，情况才开始有变化。
And we have given a lot of our attention over the last twenty years, and I think it's changed over the last five or ten on cold calling.
就是打个电话而已。
Just hey.
你得拿起电话。
You gotta pick up that phone.
你得打一百个电话。
You gotta make a 100 phone calls.
这种方式现在没以前那么有效了。
It's not working as well as it once did.
现在做生意有了新方法，而且得先从线上开始。
There's a new way to do business, and I and it's online first.
我们都明白品牌有多重要。
And and we all know how important our our brands are.
我知道这个词被用得太滥了，但你确实帮企业做这方面的工作。
I know that's an overused word, but you help companies with that.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
打造一个品牌，得让别人明白它的价值，理解它向市场传递的信息。
Building a brand that people don't understand the value of their brand and what it connotates, what it communicates to the marketplace.
我觉得这一期节目完全可以专门聊聊卡拉·史密斯·布朗说过的话。
I think we could rightly so do this whole episode on things that Kara Smith Brown has said.
她最近也发了一条帖子，提醒大家销售和市场其实是一个团队，必须紧密配合。
She also put a post out recently just reminding people that sales and marketing is one team and that they need to work together.
我觉得很多公司就像你之前说的那样，把这两块割裂开了。
And I think a lot of companies, they silo them like you mentioned earlier.
换个角度看，销售和市场对一家公司来说，就像足球队的进攻和防守。
And a a way good way to look at it is sales and marketing for a company is like the offense and defense of a football team.
如果两方面缺一，根本赢不了比赛。
You're not gonna win very well if you don't have both teams.
大多数公司做的，是直接招销售的人。
And what most companies do is they hire salespeople.
他们想要的是销量。
They want sales.
我觉得这正是他们真正想要的。
I think that's what they want.
但他们让销售团队同时承担进攻和防守的全部任务。
What they're asking their sales team to do is play both offense and defense.
他们得同时干销售和市场的工作，因为你如果不先跟市场沟通、不把产品推广出去，根本卖不动东西。
They're having to do both the sales and the marketing work because you can't sell anything without communicating to the market first and marketing what you're doing.
所以我觉得，理解销售和市场怎么配合、他们的职能怎么整合特别重要，得让他们在一个团队里，盯着同样的指标，一起努力推动收入增长。
So I think it's it's important to understand how sales and marketing work together, how their function is together, and really have them on the same team looking at some of the same metrics to work together to make sure that they're driving revenue.
跟我们聊聊你吧。
Tell us a little bit about you.
你是在哪儿长大的？
Where'd you grow up?
你上的是哪所学校？
Where'd you go to school?
在你创办这些公司之前，职业生涯里有哪些值得一提的经历？
Some career highlights before you started all these companies.
我是在密苏里州雷顿镇长大的，就在堪萨斯城附近。
I grew up in Kansas City in a little town called Raytown, Missouri.
我一辈子都在那儿，大学毕业后还曾在当地的高中教过一段时间书。
I spent my whole life there, and I actually taught at the local high school after college for a while.
那是我第一份工作。
That was my first job.
大学毕业后的第一份正经工作是教高中物理，我特别喜欢。
My first real job out of college was teaching high school physics, which I loved.
顺便说一句，要是教书能赚到钱，根本没人会认识我，因为我真的超爱教书和带学生。
And by the way, if it paid anything, nobody in transportation would even know who I am because I really loved teaching coaching.
但我赚的钱实在不够养家，我妻子一直待在家里，孩子出生后也没出去工作。
I just couldn't make enough money to provide for my family because my wife, she stayed home whenever she retired and stayed home whenever we had kids.
我不想当校长，所以只好转行，找一份能多挣点钱的活儿。
And I didn't wanna be a principal, and so I had to move on to something else where I can make a little more money.
就这样，我进入了销售行业，也由此踏入了运输行业。
So that's how I got into sales, and that's how I got into transportation.
我进入运输业的第一份工作，是我们住在俄勒冈州波特兰的时候。
My first job in transportation was when we lived in Portland, Oregon.
之前我做了十五个月的上门推销。
After I did door to door sales for fifteen months.
我加入了DAT，也就是货运与数据分析公司。
I got a job with DAT, Freight and Analytics.
那时候，它还叫TransCore DAT。
At the time, it was TransCore DAT.
我在内销团队和珍妮丝·康普顿一起，向承运商和货代销售运力平台和运价查询服务，从上门推销转过来后表现得相当不错。
On the inside sales team with Janice Compton, I was selling the load board service and and rate view to carriers and brokers and did really well there after door to door sales.
对那些需要这些服务的承运商和货代来说，卖这个产品其实挺容易的。
That was pretty easy to sell their service to carriers and brokers who needed it.
所以进展非常顺利。
And so that went really well.
后来我升到了企业销售团队，开始接触更大的货代和承运商，那四年干得特别顺，最后决定想试试创业公司。
Got promoted to the enterprise sales team, started working with larger brokers and carriers at that point, and I just had a great run there for four years and then decided that I wanted to jump into startups.
之后我换了几家创业公司，主要都是这个领域的科技企业。
So I moved around from a couple startups, mainly technology companies in the space.
有些人应该听说过Trucker Tools和Lean Solutions Group。
Some of the people have definitely heard of Trucker Tools and Lean Solutions Group.
三年半前，我决定自己单干，帮公司优化销售和营销流程，推动业务增长。
And then three and a half years ago, decided to go out on my own and start helping companies with their sales and marketing processes and everything that they needed to drive revenue.
我太喜欢了。
I love it.
我太喜欢了。
I love it.
前几天我们打电话时，我问你：你平时是怎么跟客户打交道的？
So the other day when we're talking on the phone, I asked, tell me what you're doing with your customers.
你跟我详细讲了客户是怎么看待你的。
And you walked me through this whole idea of how they're perceived by their customers.
我记得你当时在收集客户评价，还顺便问他们：
I think you were collecting testimonials, also collecting just, hey.
这是他们对你的看法。
This is what they think of you.
你可能觉得自己挺清楚自己是谁、别人怎么看，但其实未必准确。
It's not some you know, you might have a sense of who you are and how you're perceived, but it's not actually how you're perceived.
那是你觉得自己被怎么看的。
It's how you think you're perceived.
我知道你正在写一本关于自我认知的书。
And I know you're writing a book on self awareness.
自我认知其实就是了解别人怎么看你。
Self awareness is other awareness.
别人是怎么看待我的？
How do other people perceive me?
说说你和客户合作时用的这套方法吧。
So talk about the process you're working with when you engage with your customers.
和客户聊聊他们如何看待自己确实很重要，这其中总有些道理。
It's definitely important to speak with my clients about who they think they are, and there's always some truth in that.
当他们告诉我为什么创办公司、使命是什么、想达成什么目标、怎么做事时，这些说法里都藏着一些真实的东西。
There's a little bit of truth in the message when they tell me why they started the company, what their mission is, what they're trying to accomplish, how they do it, all of those things that they see from their perspective.
但他们的视角并不完整。
But that perspective is not whole.
当你想跟市场沟通时，你需要的是完整的故事。
When you're wanting to communicate with the marketplace, you want the whole story.
所以我花很多时间直接跟客户的客户聊天，问他们对产品、服务、团队、响应速度、入门流程等等的看法。
And so I spend a lot of time with my clients' customers just asking them what they think about the product or the service or the team or the responsiveness or the onboarding or whatever it is.
我想了解他们的经历和感受，因为在我看来，这是你在设计市场沟通信息时能获得的最重要的信息。
I wanna know their story, their experience with customer because that's, to me, the most important information that you can get when you're thinking about the messaging that you wanna create to the marketplace.
我常说的是，客户其实掌握着营销的关键。
I often say that the customers hold a marketing goal.
我的意思是，如果你想搞清楚自己真正擅长什么、哪里有短板、给市场带来了什么价值、在所有事情中哪一项做得最出色，那就去问你的客户。
What I mean by that is if you wanna know what you're really good at, if you wanna know where you struggle, if you wanna know what value you bring to the marketplace, if you wanna know what you do best of all the things that you do, ask your customers.
我觉得很多公司其实不敢去问客户。
And I think a lot of companies are afraid to ask their customers.
他们怕听到一些不太中听的话。
They're afraid to maybe uncover some words.
他们怕揭开那些让人不舒服的对话，比如客户的失望之类的问题。
They're afraid to uncover uncomfortable conversations about maybe disappointments or whatever.
但我发现，当你向客户征求他们的意见时，其实是在给他们勇气。
But what I found is when you ask customers for their opinion, you actually embolden them.
你反而会让他们更喜欢你，因为他们会想：哇。
Likely, you endear them to yourself because they go, wow.
这些人真的在乎我的看法。
These people really care about my opinion.
他们想知道我的想法，这带来的正面影响远大于负面效果。
They wanna know what I think, and it's much more of a net positive than a net negative across the board.
而且这会让你变得更好。
And and it makes you better.
当你问客户哪里做得不够好，而他们对你坦诚相告时，这非常有帮助。
When you ask your customers where you're struggling and they're honest with you, that's really helpful.
这才是最关键的一点。
And this is what's really key.
我发现，客户很难直接对作为供应商的你讲真话。
What I found is that it's really hard for customers to be honest to you directly as the vendor.
他们跟第三方说话时反而更愿意说真话，而这正是我的角色。
It's much easier for them to be honest with a third party, and that's where I come in.
我带来的价值之一就是，我会去跟这些客户交谈，而且毫不避讳地问他们尖锐的问题。
And that's one of the values that I bring is I speak to these customers, and I don't mind asking them really tough questions.
我也乐意听他们怎么说，而他们也不介意向我坦白，因为这不涉及个人情绪。
And I don't mind hearing what they have to say, and they don't mind sharing it with me because it's not personal.
我只是整个过程中的一个第三方，负责收集信息而已。
I'm just a third party in this whole thing, kind of collecting the information.
当我回去向客户反馈时，这为他们带来了极大的帮助。
And that's been really valuable for my clients when I go back to them.
我会说，你们知道你们提供的价值其实是这样的吗？
I'd say, did you guys know the value that you're bringing is this?
你们甚至有没有意识到这一点？
Did you guys even realize that?
或者我会说，我反复听到客户说非常喜欢你们的产品，但这里有一个明显的短板。
Or I say, I'm hearing consistently that customers love your product, but this is one sore spot.
你们听说过这个吗？
Have you guys heard that?
这让他们看清了实际情况。
And it opens their eyes to what's actually going on.
这让他们变得更好。
It makes them better.
对我来说，真正的营销宝藏就在客户身上。
So it's to me, it's just really the marketing gold is with the customer.
这也是在接近真相。
It's also getting to the truth.
对吧？
Right?
你说得对，确实不想听到全部反馈，因为怕听到不好的结果。
So you're absolutely right when you say you don't wanna hear back all of it because you're afraid of what it might be.
顺便说一下，我之前和我的高管教练安妮·霍尔姆做过这个练习。
And by the way, I went through this exercise with my executive coach, Anne Holm.
我觉得你见过安妮。
I think you met Anne.
我还没见过安妮，但听你提起过她。
I haven't met Anne, but I've heard you talk about her.
是的。
Yeah.
我好像试着给你们介绍过。
I think I tried to introduce you guys.
我记不清了，因为你当时告诉我你在写一本书。
I don't remember because I think you when you told me you're writing a book.
不过，总之我和安妮一起做了这个自我觉察的练习。
But, anyway, I went through this self awareness thing with Anne.
她说，
And, basically, it was, hey.
我要去问问你推荐的那些人，朋友和家人。
I'm gonna go around and ask people you give me, friends and family.
这是名单。
Here's the list.
去跟这些人聊聊。
Go talk to these people.
你对乔的印象怎么样？
What are your impressions of Joe?
他擅长什么？
What's he good at?
他特别擅长什么？
What's he great at?
他不太擅长什么？
What's he bad at?
我当时就说，好啊。
And I was like, okay.
我把名字给了她，还给每个人都发了条消息，说嗨。
I gave her the names, and I sent them all a note saying, hey.
安妮会主动联系她。
Anne's gonna reach out.
你介意花几分钟跟她聊聊吗？
Do you mind taking a few minutes talking to her?
当时根本没怎么把他放在心上。
And didn't give him much thought.
后来我想起来，反馈都是匿名的。
And then I remember I got the feedback, and it's all anonymous.
但绝大多数都是正面的评价。
But the vast majority of it is positive.
这些人都是我的朋友和家人。
These are my friends and family.
很明显，他们喜欢我。
Obviously, they like me.
至少能忍得了我。
They tolerate me.
但里面有些小地方说，乔不错，就是不太擅长这个，话太多，或者别的什么问题。
But there was little pieces of it that were like, oh, Joe's great, but blah blah blah, not good at this or talks too much or this, that, the other thing.
你知道，这些话确实有道理。
And you know it's true.
对吧？
Right?
然后你就想，唉，真头疼。
And then you go, ah, damn.
我得说，整体反馈 overwhelmingly 是正面的，毕竟都是我的亲友，但每一点负面评价都让人难受，虽然也是成长的机会。
And I gotta tell you, overwhelmingly positive because these are my friends and family, but every little negative thing, it's an opportunity to grow, but it's also very painful.
我刚听到康南·奥布莱恩说过类似的话。
And I've heard I just heard Conan O'Brien say this.
他说，我在这个行业待了这么久，最难受的就是收到那些特别棒的评价。
He said, the painful part of being in the business I was in for so long is you get these wonderful reviews.
结果里面偏偏有一句：一切都很好，就一件事不行。
And the one thing that say, everything was great except this one thing.
他说，就是最后一段里那一点点小问题，简直让我坐立不安。
And he goes, and the little one thing that is in the last paragraph eats me alive.
但你恰恰就点出了这一点。
But it is where you said it.
机会就藏在这里面。
It's where the opportunity lies.
如果我在客户入门环节做得不够好，我必须得知道。
If I'm not onboarding my customers, I need to know that.
对。
Yeah.
但这又回到了我这几年一直推崇的一个原则——萨凡纳香蕉队的粉丝优先原则。
But it comes back to this principle that I've I've been enjoying for several years now, and that is the fans first principle of the Savannah Bananas.
他们在收集客户反馈和体验客户旅程方面，做得最到位。
They are the best at getting customer feedback and experiencing the customer experience.
你可能不知道，每一场萨凡纳香蕉队的棒球赛，都会有一名员工专门以球迷的身份观赛。
I don't know if you know this, but at every Savannah Bananas baseball game, one employee is a fan for the game.
意思是，他们像普通观众一样买票。
Meaning, they order tickets just like a fan.
他们像普通观众一样开车去看比赛。
They drive to the game just like a fan.
他们进场时也完全像个观众。
They come in like a fan.
他们不会把工作人员当自己人，说话时完全不把自己当员工。
They don't talk to any of the people that work there as if they are an employee.
他们会完全按照观众的方式体验一切，然后第二天回来写报告，讲哪些地方好、哪些地方不够好、哪些地方还能改进。
They do everything that a fan would do, and then they come back, and their job is to write a report the next day about what was great and what they what didn't go well, what could have been better.
他们一直在努力改进公司，因为他们知道吸引粉丝才是关键，这很合理。
And they're constantly trying to improve as a company because they want fans, and it makes sense.
每个企业都应该想方设法吸引粉丝，因为粉丝会做三件特别重要的事。
Every cut every business out there should want fans because fans do three things that are really important.
粉丝愿意原价买单。
Fans pay full price.
粉丝会不断回来，还会把他们的体验告诉身边所有人。
Fans continue to come back over, and fans tell everybody about their experience.
哪家公司不想要这样的粉丝呢？
What business doesn't want that?
不管你做什么行业，都一样。
Don't care what business you're in.
哪家公司不想要这样的粉丝呢？
What business doesn't want that?
所以，理解客户的体验至关重要。
And so understanding the customer experience is critical.
要想真正赢得粉丝，改进你的服务是重中之重。
It is paramount to improving what you're doing to truly have fans.
当你亲自站在客户的角度去体验，或者主动征求他们的意见时，他们会真切感受到你的用心，也会格外珍惜。
And when you jump in the customer seat and experience it or when you ask them for their opinion, then they really see that and they value that while these people really care.
即使他们的反馈里有批评或指出需要改进的地方，反而会让他们更认同你，成为更忠实的粉丝。
And it makes them even a greater fan even if their feedback has some negative things in it or things where areas where you can improve.
他们还是会更亲近你，因为你主动问了。
They still feel more endeared to you because you asked.
对。
Yes.
你刚才还提到，你是中间人。
And you mentioned also that you're the middleman.
是你在收集大家的意见。
You're the one soliciting the inputs.
我认识你很多年了。
I know I've known you for a number of years.
你是个很温和的人。
You're a kind person.
我相信你是真心的，而且也懂得用柔软的方式表达，不会让客户因为负面反馈感到被打击。
I'm sure you're you're being truthful, but also not putting putting that iron fist a little bit in the velvet glove so you're not killing your customers with negative feedback.
再说一遍，我觉得大多数来找你求助的公司，过去都没把事情搞得很糟。
And, again, I don't think most companies are getting most companies that are asking you for your help, they aren't companies that have done a horrible job in the past.
这些公司多半是真的很在意自己的表现和客户体验的。
They're companies that, I'm guessing, for the most part, really care about their performance and about their customers.
不然他们也不会来找你。
Otherwise, they wouldn't be engaging with you.
是的。
Yeah.
当然了。
Absolutely.
收到负面反馈只是我想获取的信息中的一小部分。
And getting that negative feedback is just one piece of information that I'm trying to get.
你当然希望了解所有可以改进的地方。
So, obviously, you wanna get any areas where you can improve.
这对公司总是有帮助的。
That always helps your company out.
但我更想弄清楚，哪些地方藏着没被发现的价值？
But I'm also wanting to find out where is the hidden value?
我所关心的是，客户有没有因为你们服务或技术的某个部分，而提供了他们自己都没意识到的额外价值？
Is the added benefit that my clients don't even realize they're providing because of some part of their service or their technology or whatever it is?
所以我想要发现那些隐藏的价值时刻，那些可以被挖掘出来的宝藏。
And so I wanna find out those hidden moments of value, that hidden gold that we can use.
同时，我也在琢磨，哪些客户最适合作为推荐案例？
And, also, I'm trying to figure out which customers would be the best potential testimonial candidates.
谁在极力称赞你们？谁又愿意主动向别人推荐？
Like, who who's raving about this, and who wants to tell more people about it?
谁真正认同并接受了你们的产品？
Who really has bought into it?
我正在努力弄清楚这些问题。
And I'm trying to figure all that out.
所以，我做这件事有好几个原因。
So there's several reasons for doing it.
负面信息，或者
The negative information or
那个数字。
the No.
我们总盯着这个，但它其实是最小的一部分。
It's what we focus on, but it's the smallest piece.
我明白。
I understand that.
聊聊客户证言的力量吧。
So talk about the power of testimonials.
这个我早知道了，我读过不少相关的内容。
I know already about this because I've read quite a bit about it.
说说客户证言在网站上、演讲中，或者口口相传时有多大的影响力。
Talk about that power of testimonials on a website or in a presentation or word-of-mouth.
这直接关系到人的心理，以及人们为什么做出这样的决定。
It goes directly to understanding human psyche and why people make the decisions that they make.
我经常对客户说，也常在节目里提到，成交其实就是降低风险、增强信任的过程。
I often tell my clients and I tell people this when I'm on shows is that a sale is the result of decreasing the risk and increasing the trust that a prospect has.
如果你降低了风险，增强了信任，只要对方确实需要这项服务，他们通常就会答应。
If you decrease the risk and increase the trust, then a prospect usually says yes if it's something that they need in their business.
人们签不了单，往往是因为风险还没降下来。
When people don't get a sale, it's because they haven't decreased the risk.
对他们来说，风险还是太高，信任也没建立起来。
It's still too risky for them, and they haven't built up the trust.
当你处在这种状态时，订单根本拿不到。
When you're here, you don't get the sale.
当你处在风险低、信任高的状态时，订单自然就来了。
When you're here, when the risk is lower, the trust is higher, you get a sale.
最快降低风险、建立信任的方法，就是让潜在客户听到那些已经付费并选择了这项服务的客户怎么说。
The fastest way to decrease risk and increase trust is for prospects to hear from customers who paid for and chose the service that they're thinking about doing.
这跟任何人想换家新餐厅时，都不会打电话去问他们家牛排怎么样，是一个道理。
It's the exact same reason why anybody, and I mean anybody who's thinking about going to a new restaurant, they would never call the restaurant and ask them how their steaks are.
他们也绝对不会打电话去问：你们的开胃菜好吃吗？
They would never call the restaurant and say, are the appetizers good?
沙拉好吃吗？
Is the salad good?
他们绝对不会这么做的。
They would never do that.
他们第一件，也是唯一一件会做的事，就是去找那些已经去过的人聊聊，比如看评论、Yelp评价，或者问问朋友有没有去过。
The first thing and the only thing that they would do is they would try to hear from somebody who's been there through a review, through a Yelp review, through maybe a friend who's been there.
你总是靠这个来判断决策，因为这样能降低风险，增强信任，让你觉得这体验值得花时间、花金钱。
You're always trying to gauge decisions based upon that because it lowers the risk and it increases the trust that this is gonna be a good experience, that this is worth my time, worth my money.
不管是什么产品都一样。
And it doesn't matter what the product is.
不管你是在买货运服务，还是在餐馆吃饭，或者计划度假，道理都一样。
It doesn't matter if you're buying freight services or if you're buying food somewhere or if you're thinking about a vacation.
你得降低风险，增强信任，而客户证言是最快的方法。
You gotta lower the risk and increase the trust, and testimonials is the fastest way to do that.
这就是为什么它这么有效。
And that's why they're so powerful.
所以当你想到评价，想到在网站上直接听到客户的声音，这些都是让人快速下定决心的最快方式。
And so when you think of reviews, when you think of on your website, hearing from customers directly, those are the fastest ways for people to go, okay.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得这个能行。
I think this is gonna work.
我觉得这不错。
I think this is good.
对。
Yeah.
特雷，今天咱们开始之前，我听了一个播客，是密歇根本地的一个节目。
Trey, I was listening to a podcast before we got started today, and it's a local podcast here in Michigan.
它排在第一。
And it's number one.
是个很晚的深夜节目。
It's a true late show.
以前是在电台播的。
It used to be on the radio.
不过，他们有个广告商是家贷款公司，总说有七千零五条五星评价。
Anyway, they have a advertiser that's a mortgage company, and they say, over 7,005 star reviews.
这话一直记在我心里。
And I it sticks in my mind.
七千零五条五星评价。
7,005 star reviews.
当我拿到七千零五条五星评价时，说明我一直在持续收集客户反馈。
And when I got 7,005 star reviews, it means that I'm focused on getting that feedback on a regular basis.
而且，只要看到三星、二星或者四星，我就会想：
It also means if I see three star or two star or four star, I'm gonna say, hey.
我该怎么做才能改进？
What do I need to do?
特雷，我该怎么把你给我的四星提升到五星呢？
How Trey, how do I need to go from four to five with you?
我哪里做错了？
What did I do wrong?
然后你就说，这花的时间太长了，或者谁谁没回我电话。
And you go, this took too long or so and so didn't call me back.
明白了。
Okay.
我们会改进这一点。
We're gonna work on that.
一旦你开始用全新的视角来看待客户评价，就会发现，这些评价其实提供了一种可衡量的指标。
And I think as soon as you start thinking about testimonials or reviews into a new mindset, there's all of a sudden a measurement to to some extent if it's a review.
这对销售团队来说尤其重要，因为你提到的，能增强信任，降低客户的购买风险。
And it becomes really important to the sales team because to your point, on an increased trust, reduce risk in this sale.
是的。
Yep.
完全正确。
That's exactly right.
我觉得太多企业不敢开口请求，我只是想鼓励大家别害怕。
And, I just think the I think that too many businesses are afraid to ask, and I just wanna encourage them to not be afraid
去开口问，或者
to ask or
让负责的人去问也行。
somebody else in in charge.
对。
Yeah.
他们不必非得自己去问，我来问也没关系。
They don't have to they don't be the one doing the asking, and I don't mind doing the asking.
这真的
It really
不是的。
is No.
我觉得你还会再深入了解一下。
I think you you're also gonna probe a little bit.
你现在要是去见所有客户，跟他们说：嘿。
You you right now, if I go see all my customers and say, hey.
能给我点反馈吗？
Please give me feedback.
我可没像你那样定期做这件事。
I have not done that on a regular basis like you have.
这可是你的强项。
That's your business.
你特别在行。
You're pro at it.
你还知道该问哪些问题。
You're also know the right questions to ask.
你有一套方法，这很重要。
You have a process, and that's important.
是的。
Yeah.
这确实很有帮助。
It definitely helps.
这能让客户放松警惕。
It definitely dis it disarms clients.
他们会感觉可以坦诚相待。
They feel like they can be honest.
他们会愿意多分享一些。
They feel like they can share a little bit more.
他们知道反馈一定会传到，但找第三方聊和直接跟他们聊，感觉就是不一样。
They know the feedback's gonna get there, but there's just something different about talking to a third party than there is talking directly to them.
是的。
Yeah.
我知道你也是个播客主持人。
I know you're a podcaster too.
我们待会儿再聊这个。
We'll talk about that in a minute.
但在播客上，你会收到听众评价。
But on the podcast, you get reviews.
我看了下我的评价，大部分都是五星，我很开心是这样。
And I looked at my reviews, and most of them are five star, and I'm very happy that's the case.
有次有人给了四星，我当时就想，哦，这样啊。
Somebody went in and did, like, a four star one time, and I was like, oh, okay.
算了。
Whatever.
顺便说一句，四星也不差。
And by the way, four star is not bad.
你知道的。
You know?
这会让你忍不住想，他到底哪里不满意呢？
That's but it makes you go, oh, I wonder what he didn't like.
这很正常。
That's the nature of it.
但我觉得很多评论的价值在于听众说了什么，这让我更想顺着他们的反馈去做。
But I think where the value in a lot of the reviews are is what they say, and it makes me wanna lean into that what they say.
很多人提到，在物流这个话题上，乔总总是问一些基础的问题。
A lot of them say, on the logistics of logistics, Joe always asks basic questions.
他总能把事情讲得清清楚楚。
He always explains things.
我们这行的特点就是，我可能在货运代理这块儿懂个大概，但具体货运是怎么运作的，我真不清楚，新技术更是摸不着门道。
And I think the nature of our business is I might be a freight broker and be a mile wide and inch deep on that, but I don't know how freight forwarding works exactly, and I don't even know how the new technologies work.
所以我才会一直问这些最基础的问题。
So I always ask the very basic questions.
但既然听到反馈说听众喜欢这样的内容，我就更愿意多这么做。
But as I get that feedback that people who listen to my podcast like that, I do more of it.
视频片段也是同样的道理。
And same with, like, video clips.
视频片段现在已经成了播客里特别重要的一部分。
Video clips became a very important part of podcasting.
真希望不是这样。
I wish it didn't.
要是早知道会这样，我这辈子至少该长得更帅一点。
I would have looked I would have been more handsome in this life if I knew that was gonna be the case.
总之，你收到这样的反馈，就会多做些视频。
Anyway, you get that feedback, and you have more videos.
我得提醒一下你的听众，关于评价这件事，很多人会想：我们得要评价。
And let me give your listeners a warning about reviews because the temptation is to say, oh, we need reviews.
于是就去刷五星好评。
Let's go and manufacture five star reviews.
去求人给五星好评。
Let's go and ask people for five star reviews.
只找那些肯定会给五星的人来评价。
Let's only ask the people who will give us five star reviews.
但说实话，当别人看评价时，如果全是五星，反而会起疑心。
The truth is when people look at reviews, if it's only five star reviews, they're skeptical.
当然。
Of course.
评论得真实才行。
They needs to be realistic.
你可以请别人给你写评价。
You ask people to give you a review.
如果有人给了差评，还写了具体原因，那就去回应。一个有回应的差评，比一堆五星好评更有说服力。
If some people give you a one and there's the reason on there, then go and address it because a one review with a company who answers that criticism is more powerful than all five star reviews.
作为顾客，你希望看到的是真实的评价，大部分是四星和五星。
What you wanna see when you're a customer is you wanna see a realistic perspective of reviews with the majority being fours and fives.
如果你去看一些评价，一百条里有八十五条是四星五星，但也有一两条一星、二星。
If you go look at some reviews and there's a 100 reviews and 85 of them fours and fives, but you have a couple ones, couple twos in there.
这样才更真实，也比一百条全是五星的评价让人更放心。
That's more realistic, and that's a better experience than a 100 reviews that are all five stars.
你说得对。
You're right.
我上亚马逊的时候，其实是在Audible上浏览。
When I go on Amazon, I look I'm on Audible.
我经常听很多有声书。
I listen to a lot of books.
我喜欢看看哪些书销量最高，哪些作者我读过好几本，哪本卖得最好。
I like to see which has the most sales, which ones some authors that I read will have multiple books, which has the most sales.
然后我会看看那些高赞评价，再翻到最下面的评价。
And then I look at some of the top reviews, and then I look at the bottom reviews.
有时候看下面的评价，我会想，哦，原来如此。
And sometimes when I'm reading the bottom reviews, I go, oh, okay.
你根本没必要读这本书。
You shouldn't be reading this book anyway.
你那天心情不好吧。
You were having a bad day.
他们做了什么根本不重要。
It doesn't matter what they did.
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你大概会给出差评吧。
You're probably gonna be a negative review.
这没关系。
And that's okay.
这就是因为
That's what
但并不是每个人都会喜欢我们。
was But there's but we're not for everybody.
我们适合某些地方，顺便说一句，我经常对年轻人这么说。
There's places where we fit and play by the way, I say this all the time to young people.
我总是帮别人找新工作。
I'm always helping somebody look for a new job.
我经常跟人说，你得找到属于你的那群人。
And one of the things I say all the time to people is you gotta find your people.
Trey，你就是我圈子里的人，所以我特别想跟你一起做点事。
Trey, you're one of my people, so I would like to work with you on stuff.
你也会遇到一些人，他们本身不坏，但我曾经待过一些地方，发现自己根本不适合那里。
There are other people that you can run across and go, not a bad guy, not a bad gal, but they I've worked places where I was not a good fit.
作为成年人，看到年轻人刚工作就发现‘我不属于这儿’，我一点都不会觉得受伤。
It doesn't hurt my feelings as an adult when you're young and you get a job where you're like, oh, I don't fit.
我这一生怕是没什么出息了。
I'm never gonna make anything of my life.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我真是个失败者。
I'm a failure.
等你年纪大了，就会明白，确实如此。
As you get older, you're like, yeah.
不是所有人都适合我。
Not everybody's for me.
我也不是适合所有人。
I'm not for everybody.
顺便说一下，我最适合在小范围内发挥作用。
I'm gonna by the way, I'm best in small amounts.
所以，就这么定吧。
So make a yeah.
把这些都理清楚。
Figure that all out.
你一直在寻求反馈，真诚的反馈，因为他们知道怎么给你真实的建议。
So with all this feedback you get so you're asking for feedback, honest feedback that they'll give to you because you know how to get it.
而且，你迟早也会收到一些客户证言。
And you're also at some point getting testimonials.
但当你收集到这些之后，回去面对客户时，你会怎么做？这个过程具体是怎样的？
But when you get all that, what do you do when you go back to your customers, and what does that process look like?
首先，从客户的角度出发非常重要，尤其是信息传达。
So having the customer's perspective is really important, first of all, messaging.
比如，我们该怎么在网站、社交媒体、领英页面，还有邮件里向市场传达我们的业务？
Like, how are we gonna communicate to the market about what we do on our website, on our social media, on our LinkedIn pages, the emails that we send out?
我们怎么根据从我的客户和他们的客户那里收集到的信息来跟他们沟通？
How are we communicating to them based upon this information that we've gathered both from my customer and from their customers?
我们怎么把这些整合起来，形成一个简洁有力的信息，清楚地告诉市场：你做什么，你懂他们的痛点，而且你最有能力解决这些问题。
How do we put it together and create a simple cohesive message that communicates to the marketplace exactly what you do, that you understand their problems, and that you are uniquely qualified to solve those problems.
如果你能抓住这三点——让人知道你是做什么的，知道你专门解决他们哪些问题，而且相信你真能解决，这就能降低他们的顾虑，增强信任。
And if you can hit on those three things where people know what you do, they know what problems specifically you solve that they have, and they they believe you can solve them, that's, again, a part of lowering risk and increasing trust in terms of what they do.
所以，第一步就是沟通信息的打磨。
So that's the beginning portion is the messaging.
我常讲，所有出色的销售，都始于出色的沟通信息。
I often say that all great sales starts with great messaging.
如果你能跟市场清晰地沟通，就能教育他们。
If you can communicate well to your market, that's gonna educate them.
这会吸引他们，因为他们觉得你真正懂他们。
It's gonna entice them because they recognize that you understand who they are.
你用他们的语言说话，而且你确实有这个能力。
You speak their language, and then that you're qualified.
他们会愿意和你合作，解决自己的问题，达成目标。
They're gonna wanna work with you to solve their problems and get what they want.
如果你能用简洁的方式把这些都表达清楚，就能大大加快销售进程。
If you can capture all that in a really succinct way, then you're gonna expedite the sales process.
你会缩短销售周期，而这正是每个人都在追求的。
You're gonna you're shrinking the sales cycle, and that's what everybody's looking to.
所以，这是第一件事。
So that's the first thing.
第一件事是，我们怎么才能在网站上更好地传达信息。
The first thing is how can we message better on our website.
这里顺便提一下。
And here's just a little sidebar.
没人会认真读网站内容。
People don't read websites.
他们只是快速浏览。
They scan them.
他们只想尽快获取尽可能多的信息。
They wanna just get as much information as quickly as possible.
所以你怎么让你的网站特别容易快速浏览？这意味着你要把那些复杂的概念拆解成小块，让人一眼就能看懂。
So how can you make your website incredibly scannable, which means you have to take these massive concepts and shrink them down into bite sized pieces that people can get really quickly.
而且，这种能力并不是人人都有。
And, again, that's a skill that not everybody has.
把信息浓缩成简洁明了、容易理解的表达，紧扣这些要点，非常重要。
And so taking that information and shrinking it down to a very concise, easy to understand message that hits on those things, super important.
接下来，你要想想怎么把从客户那里收集到的信息传播出去。
The next thing is you start to think about how can we disseminate this information that we've gotten from our clients?
怎么分享客户评价？
How can we disseminate testimonials?
你可以把它们嵌入到网站上。
You can embed them on your website.
也可以剪成短视频，发到社交媒体上。
You can create short clips to put on social media.
你可以根据这些客户评价写博客，讲讲背后的故事。
You can write blogs from those testimonials to tell stories.
然后通过邮件营销或者社交媒体活动，把那些博客文章或评价视频链接推广出去。
You can then link to those blogs or testimonial videos through email outreach that you're doing or through your social media campaigns.
还可以让公司负责人聊聊这些评价和反馈。
You can have owners talk about those testimonials and feedback about that.
我现在特别喜欢和客户一起做的一件事，就是办网络研讨会。
One of my one of my favorite things to do with clients right now is hosting webinars.
不是随便办一场，我特别喜欢说服客户——尤其是创始人——和一位客户一起主持一场研讨会。
And not just any webinar, but I love talking my clients into hosting a webinar where my client, the founder in particular, is doing a webinar with a customer.
他们一起讨论这位客户遇到的具体问题，以及是怎么解决的，这样一来，就不再是简单的。
And they're talking through that customer specific problem and how they were able to fix it because now it's not just, hey.
看我们多厉害。
Look how great we are.
而是说：
It's, hey.
咱们来聊聊我们实际做了什么。
Let's talk about what we actually did.
客户说，确实是这样。
The customer is saying, yeah.
你听好了。
Listen.
这简直就是一场实时的客户证言。
Our life would be so It's like a it's like a live testimonial, essentially, is what it is.
但更像是一场深入的对话。
But it's more of a dial.
我做过，效果真的非常强。
I've done that, and it is very powerful.
没错。
Yeah.
他们也因此有机会分享自己的经历。
And they're getting to talk about that.
那我们该怎么把这些客户证言和反馈有效传播出去，好让潜在买家减少顾虑、增强信任呢？
So it's like, how do we disseminate this information of test testimonials and customer feedback in a way that's gonna help decrease the risk and increase the trust for a potential buyer?
没错。
Yep.
特雷，我想说一点，我知道这对身为市场人员、市场推广和销售专家的你来说非常重要。
And, Trey, if I could make this point, I know it's very important to you as a marketer and as a go to market guy and as a sales guy.
如果你在跟货运中介、运输公司、仓储企业，或者过去二十年进入我们行业的那些科技公司打交道，很多公司都会觉得：嘿。
If you're talking to freight brokers or trucking companies or warehousing or the tech that has kind of come into our industry in the last twenty years, a lot of companies feel like, hey.
我被同质化了。
I'm getting commoditized.
我的卡车跟别人的没什么区别，价格也高不起来。
I'm my truck is no no more expensive than the other guy's truck.
我没法多收五十或一百块，不然利润才说得过去。
I can't get an extra 50 or $100, which would make my margin reasonable.
但当你在流程中收集到客户反馈时，有时候这些反馈能让你摆脱同质化的困境，我就听两家公司这么跟我说过。
And when you get feedback through your process, I think there's sometimes there's things that take you out of that commodity, and I've heard two different companies say this to me.
来自明尼苏达的乔伊斯·布伦尼。
Joyce Brenny from up in Minnesota.
她经营着布伦尼运输公司。
She owns a Brenny Transportation.
布伦尼运输公司。
Brenny Transportation.
对。
Yeah.
还有位于得梅因的鲁克斯运输公司。
And then Roux en Transportation out at Des Moines.
乔伊斯说，客户选择我们是因为我们的价值观。
Joyce said people buy from us because of our values.
他们认同我们的价值观，所以才愿意和我们合作。
They share our values, and then as a result, they buy from us.
在鲁克斯，负责安全的副总裁——我一时想不起他的名字了——他说，乔，鲁克斯的司机是最好的。
Out at Rouen, the vice president of safety, I forgot his name now, he said, Joe, Rouen has the best the best drivers.
我们经常拿奖。
We win awards on a regular basis.
安全是我们最看重的。
Safety is our thing.
我们善待司机，很多人一干就是二十五年、三十五年，正是这种文化让我们拥有这些价值观。
We take care of our drivers where they stick around with us for twenty five, thirty five years so that we have these values.
他说，我们从来不会是最便宜的。
He goes, we will never ever be the cheapest ever.
我们很可能比你接触的其他公司都贵。
We're likely more expensive than everyone else you're talking to.
但客户找我们，是因为他们说：我们欣赏你们的价值观。
But people come to us because they say, we like your values.
我们喜欢你们做事的方式。
We like the way you roll.
我们想和你们合作。
We wanna work with you.
我觉得你们的流程能帮人看清，客户真正选择你们的原因到底是什么。
And I think your process has the ability to pull out the things that this is really why they bought from you.
你可能以为，客户选你们是因为卡车价格合适，服务也还行。
You thought because you got them a truck that seemed a reasonable price and the service was okay.
但你可能会说，不是这么回事。
But you might say, no.
他们选择你们，是因为你们的某种特质。
They bought free me from you because of blank.
请详细说说。
Please elaborate.
价值观确实很重要。
Values are definitely important.
归根结底，还是关系，或者说是客户对关系的感知。
I think at the end the day, comes down to relationship or perceived relationships.
当双方价值观一致时，关系会迅速升温。
And when you have shared values, that increases relationship really fast.
我今天下午这个电话结束后要开一个Storybrand工作坊，是和一位新客户一起的。
I'm doing a workshop today, actually, after this call, a Storybrand workshop with one of my new clients.
在这个工作坊的初次沟通里，我会问他们一个问题：你们有没有一份写下来的使命宣言，不仅自己背得滚瓜烂熟，而且团队人人都知道，并且能凝聚人心？
And one of the questions that I asked them in this workshop in the first intake session is, do you have a written mission that you've memorized and everybody knows and is, like, galvanizing mission?
你们有没有清晰的愿景，知道公司要往哪里去？有没有明确的核心价值观？
Do you have a vision of where your company's going, and do you have core values?
我接触的大多数客户其实都没有这些东西。
And most of the clients I work with don't have it.
有时候他们心里有，但没写下来，也没跟团队沟通清楚。
They have it in their heads sometimes, but it's not on paper and they haven't communicated.
可能四年前做过一次相关练习，但早就没人用了。
Might have done an exercise four years ago, but they're not using it.
他们不用这些来指导招聘决策。
They're not using it to make hiring decisions.
也不用它们来做其他业务上的决定。
They're not using it to make other business decisions.
问题在于，你的团队根本没个明确的方向来指引他们。
And the problem is your team does not have any north star to lead them.
如果你有清晰的使命、愿景，并且根据这些和核心价值观来招聘，那就能让员工更快地做决定、更高效地推进工作，因为他们知道自己的行动是和你设定的使命、愿景和价值观保持一致的。
If you have really strong mission vision and you hire people based upon that mission vision and core values, then you're freeing people up to make decisions faster and to move faster because they're moving in line with this north star that you've given them of your mission vision core values.
很多公司其实没把这一点用好，但这正是沟通的关键部分。
And a lot of companies don't use that very effectively, but that's a part of the messaging.
因为归根结底，你卖的东西是要打动那些真正想和你产生共鸣的人。
Because, again, at the end of the day, you're selling to people who want you wanna connect with.
你希望吸引对的人加入，而唯一能吸引到对的人的方式，就是清楚地传达你的使命、愿景和价值观。
You want to invite the right people in, and the only reason that you can attract the right people is if you actually communicate your mission, vision, and values.
你刚才说过，我完全同意。
You said it earlier, and I totally agree.
我们想要的是铁粉。
We want fans.
我们想要的是愿意全价买单的铁粉。
We want fans will pay full price.
粉丝是希望你成功的。
Fans are want you to do well.
如果你发现自己在跟那些看不出你做的事有什么独特和优越之处的人交谈，那你就找错对象了。
If you find yourself talking to people who don't see what you do as different and better, then you're you've fallen into the wrong conversation.
你得让人说：特雷，我认识你很多年了。
You wanna get people to say, Trey, I've known you for years.
我一直在听你的播客。
I've heard your podcast.
我看过你在大会上做的演讲。
I saw you give a speech at a conference.
我们有很多共同的朋友。
We have a lot of common friends.
我想和你合作。
I wanna work with you.
他们不会说：嘿。
They aren't saying, hey.
我看着你们六个，都跟你们一样，得填这个Excel表格，我想试着给你们量化一下。
I I'm looking at six guys just like you, and you all have to fill in this Excel spreadsheet, and I'm gonna try and quantify you guys.
你们肯定在想：别闹了。
You're like, no.
这可不是我想参与的对话。
That's not the conversation I wanna be part of.
昨天有个客户跟我聊，说他在选我或者另一个跟我类似的供应商，他说：你真的懂我。
I just had a client yesterday have this conversation with me about working with me and working with another vendor similar to me, and he said, you just get me.
他说：你就是能理解我。
He says, you just understand me.
我觉得，这确实特别关键。
And what I'm it's like, that's a big part of it.
就像你说的，找到对的人，找到你的圈子，找到那些和你价值观一致、目标相近的人。
Like, just like you said, finding the right people, finding your tribe, finding people that you share values with, that you share that kind of common goal towards.
没错。
Yeah.
我找到了我的那群人。
I found my people.
他们老是跑掉，我得一直去追。
They just keep getting away, and I have to chase them down.
对了，你刚才提到Storybrand。
That's anyway, you mentioned Storybrand.
我知道你是Storybrand的粉丝，我也特别喜欢这个理念。
I know you're a Storybrand guy, and I've, loved Storybrand.
能聊聊这个方法吗？为什么它这么普及，又这么有效？
Talk about that process and why it is so widely used and so successful.
没错。
Yeah.
这个框架其实很简单，但和好莱坞拍大片用的是同一套逻辑。
It's a really simple framework, but it's the same framework that Hollywood uses to make great films.
事实上，想想看，我们每个人都有手机，整天被它打扰。
In fact, if you think about it, we all have these phones that are distracting us all throughout the day.
手机上的短信不断弹出，邮件不停地进来，各种通知和提醒响个不停。
The text messages are going off, emails are coming in, whatever notifications on your phone, alarms.
这些事儿整天都在分散我们的注意力。
It's all it's distracting us all day.
但如果你今晚去看了场电影，乔，故事特别精彩，你肯定会坐上两个小时，完全忘了自己还有一部手机，因为你完全被剧情吸引了。
But if you went to a movie tonight, Joe, and there's a really good story, you would sit there for two hours and forget that you even owned a phone because you're so engaged in the story.
简而言之，Storybrand 是唐纳德·米勒打造的一套方法论，把这种吸引人的叙事方式变成一个简单易懂、容易复制的框架，帮你或你的企业更好地吸引客户。
And, basically, Storybrand is the framework that Donald Miller came up with to put that into a framework that's easy to understand and easy to replicate for you or for your business and what you're doing to engage customers.
而这一切的核心，就是你必须彻底了解你的客户。
And the crux of it all is you gotta know your customer inside and out.
第一，这是营销最基础的道理。
Number one, this is basic marketing.
第二，你得真正明白他们正面临什么问题，以及这些问题如何阻碍他们实现人生目标。
Two, you have to really understand the problem that they're experiencing and how it is impacting or affecting them getting what they want in life.
第三，你要传达出：你是一个有经验的向导，你曾经也走过同样的路。
And then three, you have to communicate that you are a qualified guide to help them, that you've been there.
你知道发生什么事了。
You know what what's happened.
我经常拿健身这件事来打比方。
I think of this a lot of times with getting in shape.
和一个曾经超重、后来成功减下来的人一起训练，效果要好得多，因为他完全懂你经历过什么。
Man, it's more powerful to work with somebody who used to be out of shape, who got into shape, who can now say, know exactly where you've been.
我也曾经胖了五十磅。
I've been in that place where I was fifty pounds overweight.
我做了这个训练计划。
I did this program.
现在我达到了自己想要的状态。
It gotten where I want.
我也很想帮你达成同样的目标。
I can't wait to help you with it as well.
这比一个从来就没胖过、一直保持身材的人更有说服力。
That's more powerful than somebody who never struggled with their weight and who's always been in shape.
你没法和他们产生共鸣。
You can't relate to them.
这是第一点。
That's number one.
根本缺乏同理心。
There's no empathy.
真的很难感同身受。
It's hard to relate.
当你谈到做一个合格的引导者时，你得让人感受到你真的懂他们的处境，同时也要展现出你能帮上忙的能力。
And when you talk about being a qualified guide, you have to be able to communicate empathy that I really understand where you are, and you gotta be able to communicate your authority, that you can help them out.
你完全有本事帮他们走出来。
You have what it takes to help them out.
所以这只是一个把所有这些整合在一起的框架，让整个过程变得特别简单。
And so it's just a framework that puts all that together and makes it really easy to
对。
Yep.
没错。
Yep.
顺便说一下，我以前做网站的时候，早就用过Storybrand的方法了，那时候可能还没疫情呢。这个方法真的特别有效，能帮你把思路理得清清楚楚，准确传达出你真正想表达的东西。
And by by the way, I used the Storybrand methodology on some websites when I was still doing websites probably well before COVID, and it is such a powerful way to get to clarity and also get to the place where you're communicating what you should be communicating.
我觉得，听我播客的人，一个常见的问题就是：卡车就是卡车。
And, I think you if there's one challenge that people listen to my podcast have is truck a truck becomes a truck.
卡车嘛，就是个卡车。
A truck is just a truck.
飞机嘛，就是个飞机。
A plane is just a plane.
货运代理跟其他货运代理也没什么区别。
That freight forwarder is the same as all freight forwarders.
我们把自己塞进了同质化的筐里，这可是最糟糕的状态。
We get in this commodity bucket, and it's the worst place to be.
我觉得，只要你能想办法跳出这个框，不管是沟通还是销售都会轻松很多。关键是你得搞清楚，到底是什么让你与众不同、更胜一筹。
And I think anything you can do to get out of it is powerful in terms of messaging and sales just get so much easier if you say, I figured out what makes us different and better.
我觉得特雷能帮你做到这一点。
And I think Trey can do that for you.
对了，有个人曾经跟我说过，那是在一次大会上。
By the way, somebody said to me, I was at a conference.
他直接走过来找我。
They just came up.
他上过我的播客，也是我的客户。
They've been on the podcast, been a customer.
他走过来跟我说：你知道我最喜欢这个播客的哪一点吗？
They came up to me, and they said, you know what I like about the podcast?
他说：我喜欢上节目。
He goes, I like being on it.
我也喜欢听节目。
I like listening to it.
他说：你总是对人特别友善。
He goes, you're always nice to people.
我回他：哎，我为什么不该这样呢？
I go, oh, what why wouldn't I be?
但我突然意识到，这其实是一种反馈。
But it occurred to me, that's feedback.
这是提醒我，我不想对人假意讨好。
That's feedback that I need to I don't wanna be fake nice to people.
我也不想变得太夸张。
I I don't wanna be crazy.
但我记得当时听了之后，心想：这事儿我得好好想想。
But I I remember taking it, and I was like, I gotta think about this more.
这真是个绝佳的例子，说明你根本没意识到自己在这么做。
It's a great example of feedback that you didn't even know you were doing.
这真是个绝佳的例子，
It's a great example of
就是这个。
that.
这事儿挺有意思，因为你确实会听到一些话，但就是没往心里去。
And it's a funny thing because you you hear things, but you don't take it to heart.
我觉得这正是为什么需要一个外部的人，他们本身就有过很多次类似经验，能帮你弄清楚客户为什么看重你。
And then I think this is why having someone external to your organization who has already done this many times comes in and says, let me help you understand why your customers value you.
另外，我们也会发现一些需要加强的薄弱环节。
Also, we'll get some other things where we need to work on shoring up some weak areas.
顺便说一句，如果他们愿意跟你合作，那他们喜欢你的地方肯定远多于不喜欢的。
And by the way, if they're working with you, they probably like a lot more than they dislike.
正因如此，他们才愿意跟特雷聊聊。
But that's why they're willing to talk to Trey.
如果你说，嘿。
If you say, hey.
特雷，你能去跟六周前取消合作的那群人谈谈吗？
Could Trey, could you go talk to those guys who fired us six weeks ago?
他们大概不会说‘好’。
They're probably not gonna say, yeah.
大概也不会愿意跟你合作了。
Probably not gonna work with you.
这稍微难一点，但依然很重要。
It's a little more difficult, but it's still important.
这一点我会后续跟进。
And and this is a I'll follow-up with this.
每家公司都应该在客户停止合作时做一份退出调查，收集他们的反馈。
Every company should have an exit survey for customers when they stop working with them and get their feedback.
弄清楚原因。
Understand why.
Trey，我知道你还要忙别的事，我再跟你聊八分钟，之后你就要去下一个会议了。
Trey, I know you have wear some other hats and I have eight more minutes with you before you have to go to another meeting.
聊聊‘发帖后祈祷’这件事。
Talk about the post and pray.
对。
Yeah.
所以呢，我和你们当中很多人一样，对高尔夫简直上瘾了。
So I as you and many people listening to this may be well aware, I'm totally addicted to golf.
我打高尔夫已经很多年了。
I've been playing for a
很久了。
long time.
大学时有幸打过高尔夫，我常开玩笑说那就像有个毒品贩子在背后撑着。
Had the good fortune playing in college, which I often joke around as having a drug dealer.
在大学里，只要你打高尔夫，就能去最顶级的球场。
In college, if you play golf, you play the best courses.
还能到处跑。
You travel around.
所有开销都不用自己掏钱。
You don't pay for any of it.
全都是免费的。
It's all free.
然后你毕业了，就开始自己打。
And then you graduate, and then you start playing.
你上瘾了。
You addicted.
是的。
Yeah.
完全上瘾了。
Totally addicted.
所以我对高尔夫上瘾了，但我不喜欢参加四人最佳球位赛。
And so I'm addicted to golf, but I'm also I don't like playing in four person scramble golf tournaments.
我觉得那种比赛没意思。
I don't think they're very fun.
对提升球技也没好处。
They're not good for your game.
而且很多人作弊，这太糟糕了。
People are cheating too much, which is terrible.
没人相信那个获胜的分数。
Nobody believes the winning score.
这简直太糟糕了。
It's just it's a horrible experience.
而且
And
问题根本不在高尔夫本身。
It's not about it's not about golf.
这才是关键。
That's the problem.
不对。
No.
是啊，通常确实不是。
There yeah.
一般确实不是，但我是个高尔夫球迷。
It's usually not, but I'm a golfer.
我想打高尔夫，而且想打得有竞争力。
I wanna play golf and be competitive.
所以我一直在想，能不能搞出个更好的办法。
So I wanted to come up with something better.
我们这个行业里，有很多人都是高尔夫高手。
And there's there's a lot of people in our industry that are big golfers.
他们的球技真的非常棒。
They're very good golfers.
你真这么觉得？
You think?
我就是想，天啊。
And I wanna oh my goodness.
真的特别厉害。
Like, really good.
所以我希望能把这些高手吸引过来，让他们参与一个更有趣的东西。
And so I wanted to draw those people out and get them into something that's a little bit more enjoyable.
所以我创办了‘击球后祷告经典赛’，这是个双人组队的比赛，特别有意思。
And so I created the Post to Pray Classic, which is a two person team event, and it's a blast.
我们玩得非常开心。
We have a great time.
我们送出的纪念品都是最好的。
We give away the best swag.
参加这个活动，你能吃到两顿饭。
We give away you get two meals when you come to this event.
还能拿到价值超过一百美元的高品质纪念品。
You get over a $100 worth of high quality swag.
比赛既有让杆赛，也有净杆赛，都很有竞争力。
You play competitive golf with and without handicaps.
比赛结束后我们还有欢乐时光。
We have a happy hour after the round.
我们还设置了推杆和切杆比赛。
We have putting and chipping contests.
我们通常还会请一位特别嘉宾，比如PGA巡回赛的职业球员或者名人来参加活动。
We usually have a special guest like a PGA Tour pro or a celebrity that comes to the event as well.
这真的特别有意思。
So it's been a lot of fun.
我最初是把这项活动和会议结合起来办的，但现在也开始单独带到各个城市举办。
And I started that in conjunction with conferences, but I'm also now taking it just to cities as a stand alone event.
现在我们玩得特别开心。
So we're having a lot of fun with that.
2026年我们一定会玩得很尽兴。
We're gonna we're gonna have a good time in 2026.
我对它未来的样子已经有清晰的构想，接下来就专心去实现它，好好享受这个过程。
I've got a real vision for what it could be, and I'm just gonna chase that and have a good time with that.
这段经历真的很愉快。
So it's been fun.
你说你明天要飞去凤凰城考察球场，我猜你肯定也会亲自打几杆。
So you said I know you're flying to Phoenix tomorrow to check out some courses, and I suspect you'll be hitting the ball a few times too.
我明天特别想打一场。
I love play tomorrow.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
你刚才说，有时候是和会议一起办的。
You said sometimes in conjunction with conferences.
所以有时候会有个会议，然后你就说，嘿。
So sometimes there'll be a conference, and you'll say, hey.
我们会安排在那个活动之前或之后。
We're gonna be right before or right after that event.
没错。
That's correct.
是的。
Yep.
在那之前，主要是为了利用那些来城里打球的人，尤其是那些没有高尔夫赛事的会议，这招挺容易实现的。
Before it just to take advantage of the people that are coming into town that wanna play golf, Especially for conferences that don't have a golf tournament, that's an easy one to do.
但同时，也会去一些大城市，比如凤凰城、芝加哥、亚特兰大、达拉斯，那里高尔夫爱好者多，交通也方便。
But then also just going to some cities, some major markets like Phoenix, like Chicago, like Atlanta, like Dallas, where there's a lot of golfers and transportation.
这是个机会，能跟同行交流，打一场既有竞争性又轻松愉快的球。
It's a chance to come and network with your peers and have a competitive fun round.
今天我们聊了很多关于人际关系的话题。
And we've talked a lot about today about relationships.
这种场合特别容易建立人脉关系。
Relationships are forged in these kind of, environments.
你可以在电话里维系关系，也可以建立关系。
You can build relationships, or you can maintain relationships on the phone.
你可能在会议上认识某人，或者以前就一起工作过，这些关系可以通过电话维持。
You meet people at a conference or you worked with them in the past, and you can maintain.
但要建立新的关系，有时候你真得坐飞机或者开车，亲自跑一趟才行。
But to build new relationships, sometimes you get get you gotta get on a plane or get in the car, you gotta go somewhere.
这些活动正是实现这一点的绝佳机会。
These events are an awesome opportunity for that.
没错。
Yeah.
而且特别有意思。
And it's a blast.
我们一开始玩得特别开心。
We have a lot of fun at the beginning.
大家打一场有竞争性的高尔夫球。
You play a competitive round of golf.
我们打得很迅速。
We play fast.
如果你是个高尔夫球手，厌倦了六小时一场比赛，那我们这儿可不是这样。
So if you're a golfer out there and you're tired of six hour rounds of golf, we don't do that.
我们最多四个到五个小时就打完了。
We play in four to five hours max.
我们参加过的每场比赛都是这样。
Every tournament that we've played has been that way.
然后大家玩得特别开心。
And then we just have a ton of fun.
比赛结束后，还有很多社交活动，而且竞争依然很激烈。
And so afterwards, there's a lot of networking, and, again, it's very competitive.
我们会颁发大奖杯。
We give away big trophies.
真的特别过瘾。
Like, it's a blast.
玩得开心点。
Have a good time.
对。
Yep.
还有一件事。
One other thing.
我知道你现在给不少小公司当顾问。
I know you're an adviser to a lot of small companies right now.
聊聊你这份工作的这部分内容吧。
Talk about that part of your gig.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得，在做决定或者团队协作的时候，有个外部视角真的很有帮助。
I think it's really powerful to have an outside perspective whenever you're trying to make decisions or trying to work together.
我会和一些CEO进行一对一的交流，帮他们理清当下的处境，做出更清晰的决策，因为我是局外人，没有直接参与其中。
I work with a couple CEOs just one on one just to help them process what they're going through and make some decisions with a little clarity just because I'm an outside observer instead of being involved.
有句老话叫‘当局者迷’，意思就是当你离问题太近时，反而看不清全貌。
There's a saying that you can't see the forest for the trees, and that just means you're too close to the problem to see the full perspective.
所以，有个站在远处、能跳出来说句‘嘿，我看到的情况是这样的’的人，真的很有帮助。
So having somebody who's 100 yards back who could say, hey.
这种外部的视角非常宝贵。
Here's what I'm seeing is really valuable.
我特别喜欢做这件事。
And I love doing that.
能作为外部资源支持这么多高管和创业者，真的很有意思，我也随时都在。
That's been a lot of fun to to just be an outside resource for a lot of executives, a lot of founders, and just be available.
特雷，咱们今天就到这里吧。
Trey, let's wrap this bad boy up.
我知道你还有个会，得赶过去。
I know you got another meeting that we gotta get you to.
最后再讲一遍，你为客户提供什么解决方案？主要和哪些人合作？
One more time, what problem do you solve for your customers and who do you work with?
好的。
Yes.
我通常跟运输行业的专业人士合作，比如创始人、科技公司、货运中介，帮他们建立行业内的知名度和信任感。
I work with transportation professionals usually, founders, tech companies, freight brokers, and I help them become known and trusted in the industry.
太棒了。
I love it.
太棒了。
I love it.
非常感谢你。
Thank you so much.
每次和你聊天都特别愉快，Trey。
It's always a pleasure to talk to you, Trey.
很快我就会在某个会议或球场上见到你。
I will see you at one of these conferences or one of these golf courses soon.
听起来不错，Joe。
It sounds good, Joe.
谢谢你邀请我来做客。
Thanks for having me on.
非常感谢你，Trey。
Thank you so much, Trey.
我们很快再联系。
I'll talk to you soon.
也感谢各位收听我的播客。
And thank all of you for listening to my podcast.
你们的支持我非常感激。
Your support's very much appreciated.
下次再见，继续前进，不断向上。
Until time, onward and upward.
您正在收听的是《物流中的物流》播客，我们邀请物流与供应链领域的领袖人物进行深入对话。
You have been listening to the logistics of logistics podcast where we engage with leaders in the logistics and supply chain community.
如果喜欢我们的内容，请订阅、点赞，并在苹果播客、Spotify 或其他平台留下好评。
If you like what you hear, please subscribe, hit the like button, and leave us a nice review on Apple or Spotify or wherever else you listen.
也别忘了观看我们在 YouTube 上的视频，并在 LinkedIn 上关注我们。
Also, please check out our videos on YouTube and connect with us on LinkedIn.
我们在 LinkedIn 上非常活跃。
We're very big on LinkedIn.
您还可以通过 logisticsoflogistics.com 联系我们
And you can also reach us on the logisticsoflogistics.com, our
网站。
website.
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