#218 低强度训练时你的身体内部发生了什么？| 特邀精英教练布兰特·斯塔切尔

比如说，以你们国家为例，现在在多个耐力运动项目上都在大放异彩，无论是按人口比例还是绝对成绩来看，我觉得都是这样。

Like, your country as an example is, like, cleaning up an endurance sport across multiple domains right now relative to population size and even absolute, I think.

然后大家就会问，他们到底是怎么做到的？

And it's like, well, what are they doing?

比如过去两年，大家都在讨论他的书，还有英格布里格森在做什么之类的。

Like, for the last two years, it's like, back in his book and and, you know, what's Ingebritson doing and all these things.

这些话题在这里彻底火了。

And it's completely exploded over here.

如果这些方法不管用的话，根本不可能这么火。

It's like that stuff wouldn't have caught fire if it didn't work.

所以我没法确切告诉你为什么有效，但我可以告诉你，当一个团队在每个运动员身上投入六位数以上的资金，在教练上投入六位数，在旅行费用上投入50万去争取奥运奖牌时，他们肯定在尝试一切可能的方法，探索每一条训练途径。

And so I can't tell you exactly why it works, but I can tell you that when, you know, a group is putting 6 figures plus into each athlete, 6 figures plus into coaching, 500,000 into travel expenses and such to go and win Olympic medals, they are doing everything possible and finding every training avenue.

而且一次又一次，我发誓，自从九十年代中期我们有过一次糟糕的经历以来，每次都是这样……

And time and time again, I swear every time since, like, the mid nineteen nineties when we had a horrible...

西方在低强度训练时，长跑表现就很差，我们又回到了这个话题。

The West sucked at distance running when they went low intensity, we come back to this.

所以，嗯。

And so Mhmm.

我没办法告诉你确切的机制，因为我觉得我们以前说的可能有点不准确，但我可以告诉你它确实有效。

I can't tell you the exact mechanism because I think there's now a little bit of inaccuracy potentially in what we used to say, but I can tell you that it works.

好的。

Okay.

但这很棒，我觉得这是一个很好的切入点，可以引出我的一些理论……

But but this is great, and I think it's it's a great great way to to to go into some theories that I've...

不是理论，是我用过的一些解释。

Not theories, but some explanations that I've used.

我很想听听你的看法。

And I'm curious to hear what you think.

因为我记得我小时候刚开始训练时，我爸为了让我明白骑车和所有训练中放松有多重要，跟我说过一些话。

Because I remember my dad telling me when I was younger and when I started training and to to make me understand how important it was to go easy for my bike rides and everything that we did.

他说，如果我说错了你纠正我，就是那个毛细血管系统，是这么叫的吗？

And he said that, and correct my English if it's not the right term, but the capillary system, do you call it?

对，毛细血管。

Yeah, capillary.

你说对了。

You got it.

就是换个说法。

It's a different tense.

你没问题。

You're good.

你没问题。

You're good.

我记得他跟我说，你可以把这看作是血液在肌肉里开辟新的路径、新的道路来流动。

So I remember he told me that you can look at this as almost a blood getting new paths, new roads to move around in your muscles.

他说，当你做低强度训练的时候，比如轻松跑或轻松骑车，就是这种情况。

And he said that whenever you're doing low intensity training, if you go out for an easy run or easy bike ride, that is what is happening.

反过来，事实就是，如果血液有更多的路径、更多的方式、更多的道路，不管我们怎么叫它，都会更好，因为我们的肌肉需要血液才能正常工作。

And in turn, what happens is that or like it's just a fact that if the blood has more paths, more ways, more roads, whatever we call it, it's gonna be better because we need blood to our muscles for them to function.

你觉得这个解释怎么样？

What do you what do you think of that, like, explanation?

你同意吗？

Do you agree with that?

是的，我同意。

Yeah, I agree with it.

我觉得挺有意思的。

I think, it's funny.

一直有人让我深入讲生理学。

I keep getting people asking me to go deep into physiology.

其实自从本科毕业以后，我忘了很多生理学知识。

Like, I've forgotten so much physiology over the years since my undergraduate days.

我不是那种生理学迷。

I'm not a physiology nerd.

我同意这个说法。

I agree with it.

我相信这是真的，而且我觉得它挺合理的……

I believe it to be true, and I think it fits...

我觉得这已经被证实是真的了。

I think it's been proven to be true.

我不能百分百确定，因为我对那方面的文献不太熟，但我相信这是真的。

I I can't say for certainty because I'm not up on that literature, but I believe it to be true.

我觉得最能准确描述你父亲所做贡献的方式，让观众明白为什么这很重要，就是耐力运动的核心问题在于让更多氧气到达工作肌肉，并更快地清除代谢废物。

I think the best way to describe exactly what your dad did for, like, viewers to think about why that matters is the central problem in endurance sport is get more oxygen to the working muscles and move byproducts faster.

所以如果你有更多的毛细血管，可以想象成有很多小血管延伸到你的工作肌肉。

And so if you have more capillaries, think of it as like little, like veins coming down to all your working muscles.

这样就有更大的表面积来进行氧气交换。

There's a greater surface area for oxygen transport.

如果是这样，而且我们知道这来自于低强度训练，但再说一次，前提是，从来不只是低强度训练。

And so if that's the case and we know that that comes from, you know, low intensity training, and again, caveat, it's never just low intensity training.

是所有这些因素结合在一起，但这是让你能做其他所有事情的一部分原因。

It's like everything put together, but this is part of what allows you to do all the other things.

是的。

Yes.

百分之百。

A thousand percent.

我完全相信这一点，而且我之前也用过非常类似的解释。

I have full belief in that, and I've used a very similar explanation in in prior.

不错。

Cool.

这真的很有意思。

It's it's very interesting.

我今天骑车的时候就在想，我整个职业生涯中学到的东西，有些时候，我很喜欢你刚才说的，三个月前答案可能会不一样，因为这也说明你在学习和理解更多东西时是多么谦虚。因为当你在运动领域待了一段时间后，你那些理论、别人告诉你的东西、或者你一直在练习的东西，最终会变成事实，你不会再去质疑它们。

I was thinking about it on my bike ride today that all the things that I've learned throughout my career, you know, at some point and I love what you were saying about like three months ago, it would have been a different answer because it also says a lot about how humble you are in your approach to learning and understanding more because you also get to a point when you've been in the sport for a while where those theories that you have or things you've been told or things you've been practicing, it ends up being facts and you don't go away from them.

所以就像我刚才说的，我现在都不知道这到底是不是事实了。

That's why like when I said it now, I don't know anymore if this is a fact.

这就是我想说的。

Like, this is what I'm saying.

这就是我跟我妻子解释的时候说的。

This is what I explained to my wife when she asked me.

但我很好奇你是否同意这个观点。

But I was very curious if you agreed on that.

我很高兴你确实同意。

And I'm happy that that is the case.

不是因为我想要自己是对的，而是因为这样解释和理解起来真的很简单。

Not for me to be right, but it's just like such a simple way of explaining it and understanding it.

然后我还喜欢……

And then I also like...

因为这是一个非常……

Because it's a very...

就像你说的，不仅仅是训练，不仅仅是那些路线或者我们怎么称呼它们，或者那些脉络，不是只有这些。

Like you said, it's not just that training, it's not just these roads or whatever we end up calling them or the veins like that's not all there is.

但然后你还有，我想稍微回顾一下Knobs，他能在马拉松中跑那么快，甚至没有在训练中触及那些配速。

But then you have, I guess a little look back to knobs and being able to run as fast as he did for his marathon without even touching those paces or that pace that's in training.

你还得带着一些精力站到起跑线上，感觉状态好才行。

You also have to get to the start line with some energy and to feel good.

而且不管怎样，可能那些更难的训练确实能让我们变得更强。

And regardless of like it could be that hard, harder workouts make will make us better.

但我最近也在用一个比喻，就是把它看作一杯水。

But I've also been using this thing where I've been looking at it as like a water glass.

所以你有这杯训练，然后在整个训练周期里，你得一点点往杯子里加水，然后你显然会达到超量恢复，就像，好吧，你训练很辛苦，很累，也许你训练量少一点或者强度低一点。

So you have this glass of training and then throughout your block, have to fill this glass a little bit and then you obviously get to the super compensation and getting like, okay, you're training hard and you're very tired and maybe you train a bit less or less hard.

然后到了比赛那天，你会感觉更好。

And then when you get to race day, you'll feel better.

但我一直在说的是，当我到比赛那天，我希望这杯水……

But what I've been saying is that when I get to race day, I want this...

我不希望这杯水是空的，因为我需要背后有那些训练。

I don't want this glass to be empty because I need to have that I need to have that training behind me.

我需要状态好，但我也不希望它太满，因为我觉得在比赛过程中，我们会把这杯水加满。

I need to to be in good shape, but I also don't want it to be full because I feel like during the race, will fill this glass up.

等到水开始溢出来的时候，那才是我真正挣扎的时候。

And when it starts pouring over, that's when I will really struggle.

所以如果杯子几乎是满的，我把这些水看作高强度训练，如果杯子非常满，我就没法达到那些配速了。

And so if the glass is almost full and I look at this water then as high intensity, if if that glass is very full, I won't be able to push the paces.

所以，就像你之前问我训练进展如何，我那次马拉松是给我爸爸配速的。

So, like, you asked me before how my training was going and I paced my dad for that marathon.

我陪我妻子跑了半程马拉松，之后又跑了个十公里。

I did the half marathon with my wife and a 10 k after.

所以这周，我觉得自然很累，连续两周这样跑。

So this week, I think naturally, I've been pretty tired, two weeks of doing that.

我甚至远远达不到训练中的配速。

And I'm not even close to be able to hit my paces during my workouts.

我离那个目标差得远呢。

Like, I'm like so far away from that.

我觉得这正好说明了这个道理。

And I feel like that is a great example of that.

这是因为我一直……

It's because I've been...

一方面，虽然有些是低强度训练，但高强度训练也不少，这真的会消耗掉我发挥所需的那股额外的冲劲或能量。

One thing is that although it's been some of it low intensity, but more high intensity as well, that just kills that extra kick or energy that I need to be able to perform.

那你怎么看低强度……

And and so what are your thoughts on on the low intent...

不，高强度几乎就像是一种消耗，不一定是受伤，而是指当人们说‘我训练这么刻苦，但还是达不到配速’时，缺少那股额外的冲劲。

No, the high intensity almost as like a burning out part, not necessarily in terms of injuries, but just in terms of having that extra kick when people are like, oh, I've been training so hard, but I still can't hit my paces.

是的，我会分两部分来回答这个问题。

Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna answer that question in two parts.

我会先讲生理学方面的，再讲心理学方面的。

I'm going talk about the the more physiology based and then the psychology based.

为了做到这一点，我会看看你的杯子，并在分析中再加一个杯子。

And in order to do that, I'm going to see your cup and add another cup to this analysis.

你提到的杯子更多是生理学上的，比如超量恢复等等。

And so your cup you spoke of more so the the physiology, the super compensation, etcetera.

我的杯子，我要说的是……

My cup, I'm gonna talk about...

我把它拿到镜头前给你看。

I'm gonna get it on camera here.

这是我一个朋友手工做的马克杯。

This is a handmade mug by one of my, friends.

但是

But

不错嘛。

Nice one.

它很漂亮。

It's it's beautiful.

我很喜欢。

I love it.

这是我最喜欢的咖啡杯。

It's my favorite coffee cup.

但是，把这个想象成你的心理水杯。

But, think of this as your psychological cup.

好。

Okay.

你去轻松地跑个步。

You go for a nice, easy run.

你在外面。

You're out there.

风景很美。

It's beautiful.

不会消耗你太多精力。

It doesn't take a lot out of you.

也许你甚至能恢复精力，因为你的一天挺忙乱的。

Maybe you even recharge because your day is kind of crazy and everything.

你加入高强度训练，然后可能会想，天哪，那可真累。

You throw a high intensity in and then maybe like, Oh my God, that was pretty hard.

两三天后我又来了一次那种高强度训练。

I got into another one of those in like two or three days.

哦，你开始害怕它了。

Oh, you start dreading it.

所以那个心理杯子就空了。

So that's psychological cup gets empty.

这就是为什么你看到很多人在马拉松前四五周会这么做。

So this is what you see a lot of people do in the last like four or five weeks for a marathon.

他们把那些高强度的训练都塞进去，想证明自己状态很好。

They, they jam all that hard stuff in there to try and prove and show that they're fit.

因为要经历那种超量恢复，就像你的杯子一样，尽量让这个满起来，同时把那个耗空。

Cause it's going through that super compensatory, like with your cups, try and get as close to full as possible while draining this one.

所以到了比赛那天，你突然就发现，天哪，我得跑这个。

So now all a sudden you show up to race day and you're like, oh my God, I gotta do this.

我挺累的。

I'm pretty tired.

这真的很难。

Like this is hard.

我能做到吗？

Am I gonna be able to do it?

所有这些事情。

All these things.

你最终也不会让心理上的杯子保持满满的。

You don't end up with this like great psychological cup being full too.

这在游泳运动员身上很常见。

You see this a lot with swimmers.

游泳这项运动，相对于其他运动，按年龄来看的退出率很低，因为高强度训练更多。

Swimming swimming has a very, low chronological age dropout rate relative to other sports because there's a lot more high intensity.

我觉得还有一些其他因素，比如，我不知道你怎么想，但我不想每周花十个小时盯着泳池的瓷砖看，但游泳训练强度更高，社交性更少，而跑步则相反。

I think there's also some other side pieces in terms of like, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to stare at pool tiles ten hours a week, but they skew a little bit more high intensity and lack social versus in running, have the opposite.

所以，如果你看看这些因素，对吧，这也是人们休息几天的原因。

And so, if you look at those factors, right, that's also why people take days off.

我就是做不到。

I just I just can't do it.

我经历了那么多艰难的长跑，所以需要休息一天。

I've had so many hard that last long run, so I need a day off.

好吧，现在连续性又没了。

Well now consistency is gone again.

如果我们看看……

And so if we look on the...

如果我们把心理方面放一放，转到生理方面，你越努力，外周神经系统、中枢神经系统和机械负荷就越大。

If we close that piece on the psychological side and we go to the physiological side, the harder you go, the more of a like peripheral nervous system, central nervous system, like, mechanical load.

在跑步中，我们很擅长测量有氧负荷。

So we are very good in running at measuring our aerobic load.

比如，心率区间、配速区间，所有东西都会提醒我们这些，但没人测量神经系统和机械负荷。

Like, have our heart rate zones, our pace zones, and everything beeps at us to tell us all this stuff, but nobody measures what, like, the nervous system and mechanical load is.

所以当你看到这些，突然之间，你就会感觉更加疲劳。

And so when you look at that, now all of sudden, you're, like, super more fatigued.

所以如果你不尊重强度纪律，不把训练间隔开……

So then if you if you don't respect the intensity discipline of spacing your workouts out in the...

就是我们所说的训练间和训练内的强度纪律，也就是训练之间隔多久，以及训练内部怎么安排，那结果就是你太疲劳了。

So what we would call inter and intra intensity discipline, how far apart they are and within the workout, then what happens is you end up too fatigued.

也许那次训练本身很好，但你练完太累了，然后又紧接着安排了一次太近的训练。

So maybe that workout is great, but you're too fatigued coming out of it, you slam this one too close.

结果这次训练就变得特别痛苦。

So then this one's like a brutal workout.

然后你会想，我状态不好，所以我得三天后再练一次，来证明我状态好。

And you go, well, I'm not fit, so I better go again in, three days to prove that I'm fit.

突然之间，你连续三周的训练都很糟糕，全都是因为你练得太猛了。

And all of sudden, you've got, like, three weeks of, like, crummy workouts all because you were going hard.

你可能会反驳我说，至少我保持了连贯性。

And, you know, you could make the argument against me like, well, at least I'm being consistent.

对，但你并没有做到最大化的连贯性。

It's like, yeah, but you're not being maximally consistent.

你之所以能坚持，是因为你每次都练到了。

You're you're being consistent because you've hit everything.

对。

Sure.

这确实是个很好的耐久性问题，但因为你遵守了那个纪律，你并没有真正把每次训练做到你能力的极限。

Which is a great durability non problem that you have, but you're not actually hitting things to the max of the ability that you can because you respected that discipline.

我很喜欢这个说法。

I love that.

首先，我觉得你提到心理层面的部分，我真的很感激，因为那真的占了很大很大的比重。

And I'm first of all, I think it's it's a or I really appreciate you bringing up also the psychological part of this because that plays such a big, big role.

然后我不知道你自己或者你的运动员有没有经历过这种情况，但对我来说，有时候如果我……

And then I don't know if you've experienced this yourself or with your athletes, but for me, sometimes if I...

那可能不一定是有意的，我不得不只做轻松的训练。

And that could be that it's not necessarily on purpose that I had to do just do easy training.

比如说……

Say the...

我的训练量很大，所以我就觉得，我……

My workload is a lot, so I'm like, I'm...

我总觉得状态不够好，或者没力气去做更高强度的训练。

I never feel really fit enough to or up for a harder workout.

我就觉得，好吧，我现在做这个训练，可能会生病，或者就是觉得没精力去做。

I feel like, okay, I do this workout now, I might get sick or I feel like I just don't have the energy to do it.

但是经过一周大量的低强度训练之后，比如说我能完成二十小时的低强度训练。

But after a crazy week of a lot of low intensity training, say I'm able to get twenty hours of low intensity training.

如果我在第八天，也就是二十小时低强度训练之后，虽然总训练量在小时数上已经很大了，但通常我的经验是，如果我要逼自己一把，我会感觉特别好，然后会发生什么呢。

If I was to like on day eight after twenty hours of low intensity training and although that total load has been quite a lot in terms of hours, I would like usually my experience is that I feel so good if I'm going to push myself and what happens.

显然，这就是更多的持续性。

And obviously this is the more consistency.

就像你说的，一周不算持续性，但就拿这个当个不太好的例子，不过还是能说明问题，至少对我的身体来说是这样的。

Like you said, a week is not a week of consistency, but just use that as a very bad example, but still just to prove what it what happens at least to my body.

最大的区别之一是，我可能在开始一天或者开始训练的时候感觉不是特别精神。

And the big difference is one thing is that I or I might not feel super fresh when I start the day or start to work out.

但实际情况是，我从来不会觉得乳酸能积累到让我停下来的程度，所以我可能不会觉得自己像袋鼠一样蹦蹦跳跳，感觉特别有弹性，但我还是能保持相当快的速度，比如，如果我在比赛、长跑或间歇跑的时候，能保持很快的配速。

But what happens is that I never feel like that lactate is able to build up to a level where it stops, you know, so I might not be the I might not feel like jumping like a kangaroo, like feeling super bouncy, but but I can still maintain a pretty high speed, like, yeah, fast pace during if I was doing a race or a long run or repeats.

但如果我只有十小时训练，而且高强度训练更多，我觉得我会更吃力，我的腿可能甚至在心率更低的时候就会停下来。

But if I had, say, ten hours and I had more high intensity, I feel like I would struggle more and my legs would maybe stop even at a lower heart rate.

所以如果你用心率或者配速来衡量，你可能不明白，为什么我的腿在这个强度或配速下会有这种感觉？

So if you use your heart rate or you use your pace, you might not understand like, why why do my legs feel like this at this intensity right now or this pace?

你会怎么解释这种情况呢？

How how would you explain something like that?

我会用一个……

I'll use, a...

我们可能都听说过，长矛的比喻。

We've probably all heard, the spear analogy.

你是在长矛的尖端上工作。

You're working on the tip of the spear.

所以你可以说，长矛最重要的部分就是那个尖尖的顶端。

And so you could make the argument that the most important piece of the spear is the actual pointy tip.

比如说我们回到狩猎采集时代。

Let's say we're back in hunter gatherers.

我们需要，对。

We need to Yeah.

去杀一头水牛什么的。

Kill a buffalo or something.

所以就像，我要花所有时间。

And so it's like, I'm gonna spend all this time.

我要把那个尖端磨得完美，做那些所有的事情。

I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna get that tip perfectly right and do all that stuff.

但你不去打磨矛本身，就只是绑了根小棍子上去。

But then you don't actually work on the spear, so you just attach a little stick to it.

现在，对。

Now Yeah.

在这个例子里，矛就是所有高强度训练的部分。

In this example, the spear is all the high intensity stuff.

太好了。

Great.

我们得把它弄到手。

We gotta have it.

但如果你在矛尖上绑根小树枝，然后试着朝野牛扔过去

But if you put a little twig on the end of that spear and you try to huck that at some buffalo

那你就完蛋了。

You're screwed.

所以关键在于，如果你也花时间把矛做好，调整到合适的重量、长度和分布，然后再扔出去，它就能飞得又远又准。

And so what it is is if you also spend the time and you get that spear and you get it to the right weight and the distribution and the length and and all these things, and then you add it, it flies.

所以我觉得你说的这个道理是一样的，因为我也经历过这种情况，就是可以两周不练高强度训练。

And so I think it's the same way with what you're describing because I've experienced this too, where it's like, can take two weeks off of the high intensity.

也许我的状态已经不行了，或者我只是……

Maybe my weeks are fried or I just...

我又没在为什么比赛训练，所以就不想费那个劲了。

I'm not training for anything, so I'm not gonna bother.

但我保持训练量。

But I keep my volume up.

就是轻松一点。

Just easy.

每天都练一点那种。

I know every day kind of thing.

我保持这种持续性。

I keep that consistency.

然后我去锻炼的时候，感觉其实还不错。

And then I go for a workout, it's like, that wasn't half bad, actually.

这有一部分是因为你保持了肌肉的张力。

Like, you know, part of that is, like, the muscle tone that you keep.

所以休息日也可能有坏处。

Like, that's why days off can be detrimental as well too.

有时候你失去了肌肉张力，就会感觉怪怪的。

Like, sometimes you lose that muscle tone, which then feels weird.

你的步幅确实会感觉很奇怪。

Like, your stride actually feels weird.

你会觉得没劲，很多人都会这么说。

You feel flat, you hear a lot of people say.

所以坚持训练真的很有帮助。

So that's why that training going can be really helpful.

但如果你只专注于……

But if you just focus...

我看到很多年龄组选手会这样，他们觉得，行吧。

And I see a lot of age groupers do this where they're like, k.

我特别忙，所以这周就砍掉轻松跑，只做强度训练。

I'm I'm super busy, so I'm just gonna cut the easy runs, and I'm just gonna do the intensity sessions this week.

这听起来挺酷的。

It's like, cool.

但这样就像没有长矛杆的矛，扔出去肯定不行。

But you got no long shaft on that spear to throw, and it's probably not gonna go well.

我喜欢这个说法。

I love that.

所以这就像……

So it's...

而且几乎可以把它想象成一个……

And it's almost like you you could think of a a...

我……

I...

我最近经常想到弹簧这个比喻。

I've been thinking about a spring quite quite often.

我觉得如果是低强度训练，我可以把弹簧完全压下去，然后它蓄满力，砰的一下弹起来。

Like, I feel like with the low intensity, I can pull it all the way down and then it it's just loaded and boom.

但如果我高强度训练太多，我就没法把它完全压下去。

But if I do too much high intensity, I can't pull it, push it all the way down.

然后虽然我可能还能表现，但效果就不一样了。

And then it just like, yes, I might be able to perform, but not in the same way it wants.

这个道理还可以再延伸一下，对吧？

Extend that even too, right?

就像你做低强度训练，有点像在施加一种可控的压力。

Like, you're doing low intensity, it's kind of like a controlled pressure.

你是在用可控的压力，把它推到你想去的位置。

You're you're applying controlled pressure to get it where you want.

但如果你拿一个弹簧，比如这是一张桌子，上面放个弹簧，你突然一松手，会怎么样？

But if you take a spring, like, this was a table and you had a spring and you just went, when?

弹簧肯定会弹飞出去。

Like, the spring is gonna shoot out.

你就没法控制它，没法在你想释放的时候让它停在你想停的地方。

You're not gonna have to control to keep it where you want it to unload it when you want.

因为关键就在这里。

Because that's the key.

我们一直在压缩、压缩、压缩，是为了积累体能和适应能力，然后在需要的时候释放出来，这就是关键。

We're compressing, compressing, compressing to gain fitness and adaptation to unload it when we want, which is.

但如果你只是猛地压下去，那东西就会到处乱飞。

But if you just, like, jam it down, like, thing's going all over the place.

我觉得这也是高强度训练的一个很好的例子。

I think they think that is also a great example of high intensity training in general.

我不想……

I don't wanna...

现在我们聊的是低强度训练，就像我说的，我们会再做一期节目，专门讲讲高强度训练，让大家明白。

Now we're talking about low intensity training and like I said, we'll we'll do another episode where we'll talk about the higher intensity just for people to understand.

并不是说你不应该做高强度训练。

And it's not like you can't you shouldn't do high intensity.

重要的是要知道，高强度训练更需要小心，更需要警觉，要知道什么时候做、怎么做。

Just important to know that the high intensity is it's so much more important to be careful, be more aware, know when and how to do it.

而且显然，什么是高强度训练也是个问题，因为你可以说，关于二区的一切都可以算是高强度。

And also obviously like what is high intensity because you could there's so much you could argue that everything about zone two is high intensity.

有些人甚至会回到挪威人的例子，我觉得如果你问克里斯蒂安·布卢门菲尔特，他有时会说二区也算高强度，因为他们改变了这个领域的游戏规则。

Some people would even like back to the Norwegians, I think that if you ask Kristian Blumenfeldt sometimes he would say zone two is even high intensity because they changed the game with that.

所以，是的，我觉得这一切都很有意思。

So it's yeah, I think that this is all so interesting.

然后，关于二区训练和一区训练，因为二区已经变得……

And then to that, like zone two versus zone one, because zone two has become...

它成了热门话题。

It became the hype.

大概一两年前，我感觉每个人都在谈论二区训练。

Like a year or two ago, I feel like everyone was talking about zone two.

这么做可能也是对的。

And it might be be right to do so.

但如果我们看看像Knobs这样的马拉松爱好者，他轻松跑配速是每公里5分钟或更慢，那对他来说不可能是二区。

But if we look at a two zero nine marathon nerd like Knobs running his easy runs at five minutes or slower at times per k, that can't be zone two for him.

那肯定……

Like, that must

会被定义为……

be would be defined.

我没看他的心率什么的，所以我也说不上来。

I mean, I don't look at his heart rate or anything, so I couldn't tell you later.

但如果你要带我们了解一下，比如一区和二区的区别，因为从我的角度来看，我觉得很实际地说，二区其实和一区是一样的。

But but if if you were to to take us through, like, maybe that difference between zone one and zone two, because where I come from, I feel like very in a very pragmatic way, I would say zone two is only it's the same as zone one.

它只是会延长我的恢复时间。

It's just gonna extend my recovery.

就像，那个……

Like, that...

这就是我对二区和一区的看法。

That's what I would say about zone two versus zone one.

这是个好问题。

It's a good question.

我其实有一个视频是关于这个的，还有一篇论文。

I actually have a video on this on a paper.

那是一个小样本研究论文。

It's a small n study paper.

我记得好像是12个运动员，如果我没记错的话，那项研究显示，数据是怎样的？

I think it was 12 athletes, if I recall, that showed that there was, what's the data?

如果你比你的二区阈值，也就是你的LT1，慢10%到15%，你就能获得同样的好处，而且酸痛、外周疲劳会更少，还有，对，受伤风险也更低。

If you go 10 to 15% slower than your zone two threshold, so your l t one, right, you get all the same benefits and less of the soreness, peripheral fatigue, and Yeah.

受伤风险。

Injury risk.

所以我很看重一区和二区。

And so I very much look at zone one and zone two.

在 aerobic 发展方面，这两者之间没有根本性的区别，可以说。

There is no fundamental difference in aerobic development, let's say, between that.

不过这里要加一些前提条件。

Now let's put some caveats in here.

一区可以是走路。

Zone one can be walking.

也可以高到接近马拉松配速。

And it could be, upwards of getting closer to marathon pace.

所以这个范围其实挺宽的。

So there's a pretty wide range in terms of what that can be.

我刚才只讲了有氧的部分。

I was speaking solely to the aerobic piece

对，就是有氧那部分。

of it.

走路、慢跑、轻松跑、还有那种拖着步子跑，这些的力学机制都不一样。

Now walking versus jogging versus easy running versus shuffling all have different biomechanical pieces.

对。

So Yep.

所以当我们直接说没区别的时候，就像我，因为有个两周大的宝宝，我老婆需要睡觉，所以我每天走三个小时。

When we make that argument just bluntly, like, there's no difference, it's like, you know, I'm walking three hours a day because I have a two week old, and so my wife needs to sleep.

我并不会觉得，天哪，

I'm not looking at that and going, oh my god.

我的跑步成绩会因为每天三小时的一区训练而突飞猛进，因为力学机制不一样。

My running is going to take off because I'm doing zone one training for three hours a day because the mechanics aren't the same.

这里面确实有一些要素需要具备，才能帮助实现那个目标。

There's there's there's pieces that have to be there to help with that.

不过话说回来，如果你的二区上限，比如说，是……

But that said, if you're an athlete whose upper end of your zone two, let's say, is...

我们就用五分钟配速来举例，因为之前我们提到过这个数字。

We'll just say five minute case because we've used that number here before.

那是你的上限，然后你心想，我得把上限提上去，因为我要最大化它。

And that's the upper end, and you're like, I gotta get that upper end because I gotta maximize it.

你可以放慢10%到15%。

You could go 10 to 15% slower.

对我来说数学不太算得过来，因为我有脑雾，就像刚有新生儿一样，但我们就假设是五分三十秒吧。

Math is not mathing for me because I have brain fog for every two week old, but let's just say it's five thirties.

行吧？

K?

你得到的有氧收益和跑五分钟配速完全一样，但你减少了肌肉紧张、肌肉疲劳、外周疲劳、受伤风险、地面冲击力、制动力等等这些，却获得了同样的好处。

You're getting the exact same benefit as running five minute case aerobically, but you're decreasing the the muscle tone, the muscle fatigue, the peripheral fatigue, the injury risk, the ground forces, the braking forces, all of these things to get the exact same benefit.

所以当我跟我的运动员聊这个，或者他们问起这个，或者我看到他们跑得太快的时候。

And so when I talk to my athletes about this or athletes have questions about it, or I'll see their run and it's a little too fast.

他们就说，哎呀，我就是慢不下来。

They're like, well, I just couldn't slow down.

我就说，不是的。

It's like, no.

是你自己选择继续用那个速度跑的。

You made a choice to keep going at that pace.

这就是我作为认知行为治疗师直截了当的一面。

Like, this is the blunt, like, CBT therapist in me.

就是说，你当时有个念头。

It's like, you had a thought.

你看了手表。

You looked at your watch.

你看到速度很快，但你觉得轻松，所以决定继续跑。

You saw that it was fast, but you said it's easy, so you decided to keep going.

因为我在想，如果托马斯，他轻松跑都能跑出三分四十五秒的配速，都能主动选择去……

Because I'm like, if Thomas, who could run three forty fives on his easy days technically, can make the active choice to sort of...

那我们所有人都能做到。

We all can.

只是我们的自尊心或者别的什么，我们的信念体系不允许我们这么做。

It's just our ego or whatever it is, our belief system doesn't allow us to do it.

所以这就是教育的关键所在。

And so that's where the education piece.

这也是我当初开YouTube频道的原因，就是为了教育我的运动员。

That's where like, that's why I started my YouTube was literally to educate my athletes.

现在可能稍微扩大了一点范围。

And now it's slightly bigger, I suppose.

但如果我们能做到这一点，并且改变那种想法，告诉自己：等等，我可以最大化我的有氧收益，同时还能在训练中保持更好的状态。

But, if we can do that and we can change that thought process to go, wait a second, I can maximize my aerobic gains and actually be fresher for my workouts.

这就是极化训练的意义所在，因为你同样需要做高强度的训练。

And this is where polarized training comes in because you've got to do the hard stuff too.

这样我就能变得更好。

I can be better for it.

所以我在那些训练中表现更好，然后在其他日子里恢复得也更好。

So I perform better on those, and then I recover better on my other days.

这一切都会带来一致性。

Well, all that's gonna lead to consistency.

如果我更一致，那我就能达成比赛目标。

And if I'm more consistent, then I hit my race goals.

所以这是个很棒的主张。

So that's a great proposition.

我真的很喜欢这个想法。

Like, I love that idea.

如果在我当运动员的时候有人跟我说，你这样做就能保持高度一致，跑得好。

If somebody came to me when I was an athlete and was like, if you do this, you'll be super consistent, you run well.

我会说，那就来吧。

I'd be like, let's go.

那就这么干吧。

Let's do it kind of thing.

但是，我觉得你刚才说的机械负荷，这正是跑步和其他很多耐力运动不同的地方，对吧？

But but it's it's also, I I think that what you were saying about the mechanical load is that's where running differs from a lot of other endurance sports, right?

因为我们需要那种冲击，你需要那种冲击，如果我们看看像诺布斯这样的精英运动员，我们一直提到他，但我觉得他是个很好的例子。

Because we need to have you need to have that pounding, you need to get that and if we look at elite athletes like Knobs, we keep referring to him, but I think he's a great example.

如果你看看像他这样的人，他还有一点是很多其他人，比如你和我，没有的，就是他有时间训练。

If you look at someone like him, he what he also has that a lot of others like you and me, for instance, he has the time to train.

他确实每周训练大约二十个小时。

He does train like twenty hours a week.

所以他还会增加很多其他机械负荷或者更高机械负荷的训练。

And so he is adding to a lot of other mechanical or like higher mechanical load sessions.

所以对他来说，这真的很有效。

And so for him that really works.

我记得挪威有个速度滑冰运动员，他会用……

I remember we had a speed skater in Norway who he would use...

他经常跳过一些训练，去山里打猎。

He usually skipped some of his training to go hunting in the mountains.

这听起来特别疯狂，特别傻。

And and that sounds super crazy, like super silly of him to do.

但当我们开始分析时，我们意识到他通过这样做获得了大量的低强度训练，因为他在山里走路。

But when starting to analyze it, we actually realized that he got so much zone one training by doing that because he was walking in the mountains.

所以，是的。

So, yes.

好几个小时，好几个小时。

Hours and hours.

他从不认为那是训练，但那可能对他和轻松的骑行一样有益。

And so he never thought of that as training, but that was probably just as good for him as an easy bike ride.

这也是为什么今天我出去骑车，我先跑了步，然后去骑车，在自行车上你其实可以夸大这一点，因为机械负荷是一样的。

And that's also where like when I go out on my bike today, I had a run and then I went out for a bike ride and then on the bike you can actually just exaggerate that someone because the mechanical load will be the same.

就像你还是在做同样的事情，你可以保持同样的节奏。

Like it's not you are still doing the same thing and you can have the same cadence.

其实没什么变化。

It doesn't really change.

但跑步就不一样了。

But with running that is different.

然后我的问题就来了，关于职业运动员每周能投入那么多小时，和刚开始增加跑步量的跑者之间的区别。

And then comes my question in terms of like the difference between a pro athlete who is able to put in so many hours every week and then you have a runner who is now starting to run a little bit more.

首先，对初学者来说，可能连一区跑都很难做到。

And first of all, it could be hard for beginner to even run-in zone one.

比如，一开始跑步时，你可能自动就进入三区，因为跑步对你来说很吃力。

Like, it could be that zone three is where you automatically get to when you start running because running is hard for you.

但也可能你每周能跑三四天，每次刚开始都是四十五到六十分钟。

But it could also be that you had three to four days a week where you can run and all those runs are like forty five to sixty minutes in the beginning.

那么，低强度训练对这样的人有多重要呢？

And then how important is the low intensity training for someone like that?

因为这样一来，我们看的是一周总训练量要少得多的情况。

Because then we're starting to look at much less load overall during the week.

对，这是个好问题，因为新手的问题经常被问到。

Yeah, it's it's a good question because the beginner question comes up quite a bit.

我觉得我们能给出的最好回答是，如果你正在听这个播客，而且你是个全新的跑者，那我要先恭喜你找到这个节目，因为这里有很多信息，克里斯蒂安和其他嘉宾都分享过。

I think the the best answer we can give to it is if if you're listening and you're a brand new runner, like kudos to you for finding this podcast because there's a wealth of information on here, that, you know, that Kristian side with people on.

但如果你是个刚开始跑步的新手，听到这些心率区间、心率上限什么的，还有你应该在哪个区间，我会说，别管那些了。

But if you were, like, a brand new runner just starting out and you're hearing all this zone stuff and heart rate caps and and where you're supposed to be, I would say, screw all of it.

把手表上那些数据都关掉，就试着轻松跑，不管那个……

Turn all of that data off your watch, and literally just try to run easy, whatever that...

就是说……

Like, that's...

那种说法没法比较，先说清楚。

That language is not gonna be comparable, to be clear.

这不是在针对你，听节目的听众。

And it's not a slight at you, the listener listening to this.

就轻松跑，每次三十分钟到四十分钟，一周三四次。

Just run easy, like, thirty to forty minutes, three to four times a week.

如果你能坚持六到八周，你就会开始看到一些变化。

If you can do that for six weeks, eight weeks, then you'll start to see some changes.

我只会把心率和配速当作事后回顾的追踪工具，而不是即时做决定的依据，因为这些东西对你现在来说毫无意义。

And I would only look at heart rate and pace in retrospection as a tracking mechanism, not an instantaneous decision making piece, because all of that stuff is so meaningless to you at this point.

那些都只是噪音，真正重要的是你需要跑得相对轻松。

It's just noise, and the signal is we just need you to run relatively easy.

对你们大多数人来说，在这个阶段，三十分钟到四十分钟跑下来并不会觉得轻松。

For most of you, like, in this camp, thirty to forty minutes will feel not easy.

这可能是你做过的最难的事情。

It's, like, the hardest thing you've ever done.

但你要知道，只要尽可能保持轻松，有些人可能需要走跑结合。

But just know that if you keep it as easy as possible to do that, that might have walk breaks for some of you.

这完全没问题。

That's totally okay.

说实话，我受伤恢复的时候也会走跑结合，我以前也算跑得不错。

Like, heck, I do walk runs when I'm coming back from injuries, and I used to be somewhat decent.

这完全没问题。

And that's totally okay.

你只需要轻松度过这个阶段。

You just have to get through this phase easy.

忘掉那些心率区间、配速、乳酸阈值之类的噪音吧，因为你的适应速度会非常快，这些指标以后自然会跟上来。

Just forget the noise of zones and heart rates and paces and all these things and my above my LT two, whatever, because your rate of adaptation is going to be so quick because it's novel that that stuff will fall in line later.

但如果你……

But if you...

比如，我现在有几个新手跑者，他们刚来找我的时候，我就跟他们说，我只要你们戴一块老式的运动手表。

Like, I have a couple new runners right now that when they came to me, I said, literally, I just want you to have a time X old school watch.

我不需要心率。

I don't want heart rate.

我不需要配速。

I don't want pace.

我什么都不需要。

I don't want anything.

那些数据我全都不要。

I don't want any of that data.

你得手动向我汇报，因为你肯定会为这些数据焦虑，觉得自己做得不对。

You're going have to manually report to me because you're just going to get so anxious about all of it and feel that you're doing it wrong.

我只要你跑三十分钟。

I just want thirty minutes.

三十分钟。

Minutes.

就这样。

That's it.

所以我会把那些噪音都忘掉。

And so I'd forget all of that noise.

如果有人跟你说，是啊，但我跑得不多，所以不如每次跑都加大点强度，你会怎么回应？

What would you say to those who would say that, yeah, but I'm not running that much, so I might as well do a bit higher intensity on all of my runs?

这个问题问得好。

It's a good question.

所以我用的比喻是，因为我是个超级篮球迷。

So the analogy I use because I'm a big basketball fan.

我是在文斯·卡特那个年代长大的，而且我们刚迎回了科怀·伦纳德。

I grew up in the Vince Carter era, and we just got Kawhi Leonard back.

所以这对我们来说挺让人兴奋的。

So that's that's quite fun for us.

但是，如果你带孩子去篮球训练，嗯，他或她进NBA的可能性其实很低。

But, if if you're taking your kid to basketball practice, k, the likelihood that he's going to make it to the NBA, he or she is gonna make it the NBA is quite low.

特别是如果你是加拿大人。

Especially if you're Canadian.

我们大概有六个。

We got, like, six of them.

我觉得你们那边一个都没有，所以可能性可能更低。

I think you guys have zero, so probably even less likely

对你来说。

for you.

但你不会说，教练，你知道吗？

But you still don't go, you know what, coach?

我不想让你教他们错误的罚球方式。

I don't want you to teach them to do free throws wrong.

我不会从一开始就教他们错误的东西。

I'm not gonna teach them the wrong thing from the beginning.

我其实想让你教他们罚球的基本功，因为不管他们练得多好。

I actually want you to teach them the fundamentals to do a free throw because it doesn't matter how good they get.

他们可能打大学联赛。

They could play college.

他们可能打高中联赛。

They could play high school.

他们可能只是打俱乐部。

They could just play club.

他们可能三十多岁了还想在社区中心的联赛里打球。

They might wanna play at a rec YMCA league in their thirties.

我不在乎。

I don't care.

他们必须把基本功练好，才能让训练效果最大化。

They need to have the fundamentals done to make the most of their training.

所以对于那些这么争辩的人，我会说，你其实是在跳过基本功。

And so for the people who make that argument, I go, you're actually just skipping the fundamentals.

这不会让你变得更好。

It's gonna make you better.

短期内你会觉得有点成就感，因为你能做到。

It's a bit of a, you know, ego boost in the short term that you can do it.

你觉得自己在最大化训练效果，但实际上你是在跟魔鬼做交易，很容易受伤，而且过了四到八周就不会再有进步了。

You feel like you're maximizing, but you're just making a deal with the devil, you're likely to get injured, you're not going to improve past about four to eight weeks.

我们知道，如果你做大量高强度训练，四十八周后效果就会达到顶峰，而受伤风险会上升。

We know that if you do lots of high intensity, it maxes out over forty eight weeks and your injury risk goes up.

所以当时感觉很好，但长期来看不值得。

And so it 'll feel good in the moment, but it's not worth it in the long term.

所以即使是那些人，比如我有客户每周大概训练三天。

And so even people like that, like I got people who are acting around three days a week.

我只让他们做一次训练，因为当生活变得忙碌，或者他们意识到自己想让训练成为生活中更重要的一部分时，他们不会走到那种‘嘿，太好了’的地步。

I'm only having them do one workout because when life opens up or they realize that they want this as a bigger part of their life, they're not going to a place where, hey, sweet.

我现在每周有五天训练。

I've got five days a week now.

我只需要再加两个高强度训练日，然后他们就会崩溃。

I'll just add two more intensity days, and then they're broken.

所以你

So you

总是回到基础训练。

always go back to the fundamentals.

这和我说的‘天赋识别’是一样的道理，这个词真该被扔进垃圾桶。

And it's the same thing I say for, like, talent identification, which is a term that should be thrown in the garbage.

但我把每个运动员都当作有潜力变得非常出色来对待。

But I treat every athlete like they have the ability to be really good.

我不知道对他们来说真正优秀意味着什么。

I don't know what really good means for them.

可能是四个小时。

It could be four hours.

也可能是三个小时。

It could be three hours.

也可能是两小时零九分。

It could be two zero nine.

我当初知道汤姆能在马拉松队里跑出两小时零九分的成绩吗？

Did I know that Tom could run two zero nine three years in his marathon crew?

不知道。

No.

完全没概念。

No clue.

但我们按照他可能非常擅长这个来对待基础训练，这就是我指导每个人的方式。

But we treated the fundamentals as if he could be really good at this, and that's the way I coach everyone.

所以如果你这样做，就要尽早教他们基本功。

And so if you do that, you teach the fundamentals as early as possible.

这样他们才能探索自己的极限在哪里。

So that way they can explore what their limits are.

这就是我会对那个人说的话。

So that's what I would say to that person.

这个回答很棒。

That's a great answer.

不过很遗憾，我们的对话快结束了，但我还有一个问题想问你。

And, unfortunately, we're getting to the the end of our conversation But I I do have one one more question for you.

这个问题可能需要你分两种情况来回答，一种是针对完全的新手，因为就像你说的，你希望那个人扔掉手表。

And it might be that you have to answer that in in two different ways based on someone who's very new because, like you said, you want that person to throw away the watch.

我在播客里采访过几位跑者，他们说刚开始跑步的时候，过了好几个月才第一次在跑步中感觉良好。

And I talked to several runners on the podcast who said that when they first started running, it took them months to feel good for the first time on a run.

但我觉得对很多人来说，最大的挑战可能是真正理解低强度的轻松跑应该是什么感觉。

But I think that maybe the biggest challenge for a lot of people is to actually understand what is a low intensity, intensity easy run supposed to feel like?

你出去跑的时候说，轻松跑，我想轻松跑，然后你忘了配速，忘了心率，那应该是什么感觉呢？

You go out there and you say, run easy, I wanted to run easy and you forget about pace, you forget about heart rate, what is it supposed to feel like?

你能解释一下或者描述一下吗？

Can you explain that or describe that at all?

应该感觉很好，希望如此。

It should feel good, hopefully.

应该感觉——我先暂时不提新手的情况。

It should feel, you know, I'm gonna leave the beginner camp for a second here.

就说跑了六个月以上的人吧。

It will say, you know, six months plus in kind of thing.

应该感觉你跑完了，但不会觉得酸痛。

It should feel like you've done a run, but not that you're sore.

应该感觉跑完之后，如果必须的话，你还能继续跑。

It should feel like when you're done, you could keep going if you had to.

比如说，想想真正的轻松跑，应该能跑得比马拉松还长，不管你的马拉松成绩是多少，因为理想情况下，你的马拉松配速应该比你的轻松跑基础配速快。

Like, if you think of proper easy efforts, like, should be able to do that for longer than a marathon, whatever your marathon time is, because ideally, your marathon pace is faster than your easy base.

所以，轻松跑的感觉应该是，你能跑得比完成一场马拉松所需的时间更长。

So it should feel like you could go for longer than the time it would take you to do a marathon.

你应该能够……

You should be able to...

如果用典型的说话测试来衡量，就是能说完整的句子。

You know, if we use the typical talk test, full sentences.

在训练最紧张的时候，会不会有些轻松日无论你跑得多慢，感觉都糟透了？这种情况会发生吗？

Are there going to be easy days when you're in the thick of training that feel like absolute garbage no matter how slow you go and what happens?

当然会。

Absolutely.

这种情况肯定会发生。

They're gonna happen.

但这不应该成为常态。

But that shouldn't be what it feels like all the time.

要知道这种情况会发生，但不要接受它每次都发生。

Know that they're gonna happen, but don't accept them as being every single time.

如果你是新手，我会说，相信它会变好的。

If you're new, I would look at it and go, trust that it's gonna get better.

会的。

It will.

我向你保证。

I promise you.

但你要尽量让这些日子变得轻松。

But make the choice to make them as easy as possible.

所以对于新手来说，你可能需要加入椭圆机、骑车或游泳之类的运动来提升有氧能力，但应该让你觉得自己能胜任。

And so for new people, you might have to add an elliptical or bike or swimming or whatever to boost that aerobic capability, but it should feel like something you're capable of doing.

所以听到那个速滑运动员的比喻或故事。

So to hear that speed skater analogy or story.

就像，你能去山里徒步六个小时吗？

It's like, well, could you go hike in the mountains for, like, six hours?

也许你不是在追求一个……

Maybe you're not chasing a...

我猜那边是羊或者鹿吧，至少是在你们那美丽的乡村里。

I assume it's a sheep or a deer over there, at least on some of the beautiful countryside you guys have.

但问题是，你能坚持很久吗？

But it's like, could you do it for a long time?

如果答案是不能，如果你跑了四十分钟，然后心里想，我实在等不到四十分钟结束。

If the answer is no, if you're if you're running forty minutes and you're like, I cannot freaking wait for four.

就像，我只想赶紧跑完四十分钟。

Like, I just gotta get to forty minutes.

这样就能结束了。

This can be over.

那就不轻松了。

That's not easy.

对。

No.

这真是一个很棒的理念。

This is this is a great brand.

我真的很感激，而且我觉得听众们也会喜欢的。

I I really appreciate it, and I think that the listeners will too.

我非常喜欢深入探讨这类话题。

I I I love diving deep into these kind of things.

我觉得低强度和轻松训练这件事，我们有时候确实想得太复杂了。

And I feel like the low intensity and the easy training is something that we overcomplicate a little bit.

就像，我们……

Like, we...

其实它非常简单，非常容易，如果你客观地去看的话，但一旦我们开始做起来，就变得很难了。

It's it's it's so simple and so easy, like if you look at it very objectively, but then as soon as we start doing it, it's hard.

就像你说的，最大的挑战或障碍可能就是我们自己的自尊心。

Like you said, the biggest challenge or obstacle is probably our own ego.

比如把它发到Strava上。

Like it's it's getting it out on Strava.

就像我前几天看了一个短视频，那个人说训练或成为更快的马拉松选手最难的部分不是那些高强度的训练或长距离跑。

And, you know, like I was watching a reel the other day where this guy was saying that the hardest part of training or becoming a faster marathon is not that hard workout or that long run.

就是那一个小时轻松跑，你会觉得不好意思，不想让任何人看到。

It is that hour of easy running where you are embarrassed, you don't want it want anyone to see it.

就是那种慢得让人尴尬的轻松跑。

It's just that very easy run that is embarrassingly slow.

我觉得，对，这就是轻松训练的最好总结。

And I think that's, yeah, that's easy training summed up pretty well.

我想对正在听的人说，我们可能可以就此结束，因为我知道你还有事要忙。

What I would, what I would say to that person listening and we can probably wrap after this because I know you got to jump.

但如果你担心在Strava上得不到点赞，或者别人会怎么想，我宁愿那些黑子在你发布一个超快成绩时震惊得目瞪口呆，点赞数飙升，评论都是‘天哪，太厉害了’。

But, if you're afraid of getting the kudos or what people are going to think or all that stuff on Strava, I would rather have those haters be so shocked when you post up a super fast time and your kudos go through the roof and comments are like, oh my God, that was amazing.

没想到吧。

Didn't see that coming.

而不是每天为了多几个破赞或评论，说你的跑步有多棒。

Then every day trying to get like five more frigging likes or comments about how great your run was.

我宁愿做这样的交换。

I'd take that trade any day.

我同意。

I agree.

我不想成为……

I hate to be...

我不想成为那种只堆砌好训练和Strava成绩，但一到比赛日却完全达不到训练水平的人。

I would hate to be the one who is just stacking good workouts and Strava times and then come race day and then you're not even able to live up to those trainings at all.

所以……

So...

Instagram上有很多账号专门揭露那些Strava成绩和马拉松成绩不符的人。

I mean, there's whole there's whole Instagram accounts about people lying about their Strava times relative to their marathon times.

所以你不想成为那种人。

So you don't wanna be in that camp.

绝对不想。

Definitely not.

Brant，非常感谢你。

Brant, thank you so much.

如果你愿意的话，我们下次可以再录一期，稍微高强度一点，也聊聊怎么应对那种情况。

We'll we'll do another one if you're up for it with a bit of, like higher intensity and how how to deal with that as well.

对，这期真的很棒。

And yeah, this is great.

非常感谢你来上我们的播客。

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

你现在都快成常驻嘉宾了，我很喜欢这样。

You're becoming a very regular guest now, I love that.

嘿，我很乐意。

Hey, happy to.

是你让对话变得这么精彩，兄弟。

You make the conversations great, man.

这期聊得太开心了。

This has been a blast.

完美。

Perfect.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常感谢你，Brant，抽出时间来参加节目。

Thank you so much, Brant, for taking the time for coming on.

我真的很想我们再坐下来聊聊，更深入一点，关于高强度训练中的强度控制，比如阈值和最大摄氧量训练，什么时候该做什么，以及这到底是怎么运作的。

I really, really want us to sit down again to talk a little bit more about the intensity control of the harder workouts like threshold and VO2 max, like when to do what and how that actually works.

我觉得我们所有人都容易，尤其是刚接触耐力运动的人，把“累”就当成“累”，不会去区分是阈值那种累，还是最大摄氧量那种累。

I think that it's easy for all of us and especially if you're new to endurance sports to just think of hard as hard and not really think of like hard as in threshold or hard as in VO2 max work.

而且，要区分你看着的心率、配速，或者你自己的感觉，这三者之间的差别，也挺难的。

And also it's hard to differentiate the like difference between having a heart rate that you're looking at or the pace you're looking at or how you're feeling.

所以，深入探讨这个话题，我觉得对我自己会很有帮助，也希望对你，听众朋友，能有帮助。

And so diving deeper into that is something that I think will be very useful for for me, but also hopefully for you as a listener.

我答应过你，要跟你分享一下我这一周的训练。

I promised you that I would go through my week.

为了这个，我得把我的Strava调出来。

And to do that, I'm gonna bring up my Strava.

我很幸运，这次播客里能带着Strava。

I'm also lucky enough to have Strava with me on this podcast.

记得你可以用代码Kristian。

Remember that you can use code Kristian.

你可以在下面看到怎么拼写，用这个代码可以享受Strava年度订阅七折优惠。

You can see how you spell that down below to get 70% off a yearly subscription with Strava.

但我现在打开Strava不是为了这个。

But that's not why I brought up my Strava right now.

是为了跟你们分享一下我最近的训练情况。

That is to show you or tell you guys a little bit about what my trading has been like.

上次我们聊的时候，我刚看完房子，然后进行了一次相当扎实的训练。

So when I talked to you last time, I had just been training or had had a pretty solid day of training after showing our house.

所以周一我出去轻松跑了一下。记住，我在为铁人三项训练。

And so Monday I went out for an easy run And keep in mind that I'm training for an Ironman.

所以现在我的训练包括跑步、骑车和游泳。

So my training now consists of running, cycling and swimming.

这周本来应该是又一个扎实的训练周。

This week was supposed to be another solid week.

我真的很希望能完成它。

I was really hoping that I could get that in.

但现在工作上的任务量挺大的。

But the workload, like work wise is pretty big right now.

我现在处于一种，不能说压力大吧，但就是事情特别多，好多项目要同时兼顾。

I'm having one of them or I wouldn't call it stressful, but like I have so much to do, so many projects to balance.

而且自从我创业以来最大的那个项目，现在正处于……

And the biggest project that I've had since I started my company is currently in, like, it's...

我们快收尾了，这意味着工作量特别大。

We're at the end of it, which means that there's a lot of work.

有些天我甚至觉得都没时间来录这个播客。

And there are some days where I don't feel like I have time to be here having this podcast.

有些天我觉得连跑步、骑车或者游泳的时间都没有。

There are days where I don't feel like I have time to to run or cycle or swim.

不过话说回来，周一跑了14.6公里，用时一小时十五分钟。

But anyways, Monday, 14.6 kilometers, one hour and fifteen minutes of running.

这次我特别注重慢跑。

I was really focusing on going slow on this one.

所以每公里配速是五分零九秒。

So five zero nine pace per kilometer.

就是想好好恢复一下，毕竟上周挺累的。

Just really trying to to recover from a hard week.

如果你在Strava上关注我，或者听过这个播客，你就知道，前一天我状态不错，但周六我跑了30公里，先是和我妻子一起跑了个半马，然后紧接着又跑了个10公里，其实是个比赛，就在……

If you've followed me on Strava or on this podcast, you know that, one thing is that I had a solid day that day before, but I also had 30 kilometers of running on Saturday, half marathon with my wife first, and then running a 10 k, a race actually in the...

大概半小时之后。

Like thirty minutes after that.

再往前一个周末，我给我爸当马拉松配速员，结果跑了个全马。

And the weekend before, I was pacing my dad for his marathon, so that ended up being a full marathon.

所以我的腿最近积累了不少长距离跑量。

And so getting quite a lot of long runs in my legs.

所以虽然总跑量没那么夸张，但我觉得，让我想想，上周还是上上周……

So although the the total mileage hasn't been that crazy, I think I had, like, let's see, last week or the...

不是这周，是上上周，我跑了90……

So not this week, but the week before I had 90...

不对。

No.

89公里。

89 kilometers.

所以跟以前相比，这个公里数其实不算多。

So not a whole lot in terms of kilometers and where I've compared to what I've been at before.

但这周我希望能多跑一点，不只是这些长距离。

But this week, I was hoping to to get a little bit more and not just have these long runs.

问题是现在我的状态挺好的，所以跑的都是长距离，但每周的总跑量反而少了。

But the thing is that now I've had pretty solid days, so it's been longer runs, but less mileage in the week.

所以，是的，那个周一跑得很轻松。

So, yeah, that Monday, very easy.