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这个BBC播客在英国以外的地区由广告支持。
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside The UK.
嘿。
Hey.
我是罗曼·马尔斯，《100件物品》系列的主持人。
It's Roman Mars, host of the 100 Object series.
本周，前《流言终结者》成员亚当·萨维奇和我一起聊聊贝尔电话的故事，这项发明彻底改变了我们的沟通方式。
This week, I'm joined by former mythbuster Adam Savage to dial into the story of the Bell Telephone, an invention that completely transformed the way we communicate.
我们会挖掘一款特别受人喜爱的电话机型背后的历史，看看它如何改变了世界，以及它作为史上最具影响力的物品之一背后的故事。
We'll uncover the history behind a very specific beloved model of the telephone, how it changed the world, and the story behind one of the most influential objects ever created.
无论你在哪里收听播客，都可以在《99% Invisible》的频道上收听《100件物品》。
Listen to 100 objects on the 99% Invisible feed wherever you get your podcasts.
别管价格上限了，那根本就是个摆设。
Get off the price cap because it's a pants cap.
它刚刚又涨了。
It's just gone up.
市场本来就是波动的。
The market is by definition volatile.
我总是会从中汲取一点小智慧，应用到日常生活中。
Always have a little nugget of something that I take away and apply to my everyday life.
说到储备，心理上的储备，我非常强烈地建议你，根据消费者合同规定，你确实拥有这些权利。
Going into the arsenal, the mental arsenal, I would push very strongly that you have those rights under the consumer contract regulations.
这个问题真有意思。
What an interesting question.
非常有意思。
Very interesting.
我很喜欢。
Enjoyed that.
大家好，欢迎收听这个巧妙命名的马丁·刘易斯播客。
Hello, and welcome to the cunningly named the MartinLewisPodcast.
我很好奇这期节目会讲些什么。
I do wonder what that's gonna be about.
这是我们的一期问答节目，你们都是非常精明的提问者。
And this is our Question Time episode where you are Esquire's extremely savvy questioners.
你们可以问我任何问题，括号里说，在合理范围内。
Get to ask me your questions on absolutely anything and everything, open bracket, within reason, close brackets.
这周你们问我，网上购物时，如果买的是定制商品，权利会少一些，那到底什么算定制商品呢？
And this week, you asked me, as you've got less rights if you buy a personalized item when you're shopping online, what exactly counts as personalized?
如果我搬家，有没有办法固定我的能源费率？
Is there a way to fix my energy tariff if I'm moving house?
然后我们要推出一个新的试验项目，叫做“你的答案”。
Then we're launching a new trial experiment called your answers.
安吉拉联系了我们，说她投了5000英镑。
Angela got in touch to say she invested £5,000.
结果马上就亏了150英镑。
It lost a £150 straight away.
她吓到了，就卖掉了。
She got spooked, sold it.
她想知道，对于如何重新开始投资，我会给她什么建议。
And she wanted to know what I would say to her about how to get back into it.
但我想，等等。
But I thought, hold on.
不如我们集思广益，我就问了你们。
Let's crowdsource the information, and I asked you.
我们收到了超过3000条回复。
We've had over 3,000 answers.
我们会详细讨论这些回复。
We'll be going through that in detail.
最后，我们以一个大成功作为结尾，这是最好的结束方式。
And then we finish in the best way to finish with a big success.
仅仅通过收听播客，就多得了3000英镑的养老金。
£3,000 extra pension just by listening to the pod.
你也能做到吗？
Are you do it too?
放主题曲吧。
Play the theme tune.
大家好，欢迎收听我们播客的问答时间特辑。
Hello and welcome to our Question Time edition of the podcast.
没错，这一期就是你们可以问我任何问题的那一期。
Yes, this is the one where you can ask me a question on anything and everything.
我们一起说。
Let's all say it together.
括号，在合理范围内，括号结束。
Open brackets within reason, close brackets.
今天和我一起的，我很高兴地介绍，问题策划人本人，教授、爵士、博士、马修·伯纳姆先生。
And joining me, I am delighted to say is the curator of questions himself, Professor, Sir, Doctor, Matthew Burnham, Esquire.
这些头衔在播客的正统体系里都是合法的。
All of those are legal titles within the canon of the podcast.
马特，这周你全都拿到了吗？
You got them all this week, Matt?
我知道，我什么都没做错。
I know, I've done nothing wrong.
你什么都没做错。
You've done nothing wrong.
他们连续三周被取消了。
They've been dropped three weeks in a row.
我觉得我们是被取消了，但他们什么都没做错。
I think we've had them dropped, but they've done nothing wrong.
这周我们要庆祝一个新时代。
And we are celebrating a new era this week.
开始前得说一句，坐在我旁边的这位，过去三周一直在跟着学习GDPR的谷歌文档专家罗茜，现在正式接手了，她就是伊莎贝尔。
Important to say at the start, sitting aside me as she has for the last three weeks while she was shadowing GDPR, Google Docs professional Rosie, but now taking over in her own right, we have Isabelle.
伊莎贝尔，笑一个，挥挥手。
Give us a smile Isabelle and a wave.
伊莎贝尔在笑，还来了个皇家挥手。
Isabelle is smiling, a royal wave.
她刚才来了个皇家挥手。
She did a royal wave.
哇哦。
Woah.
这已经有点摆架子了。
Getting above the station already.
伊莎贝尔刚才来了个皇家挥手。
Isabel did a royal wave.
她在这儿呢。
She is here.
我们还没讨论过伊莎贝尔要不要在播客里发言。
We have not yet had to debate on whether Isabel will be speaking in the podcast or not.
所以现在我们先保持安静。
So we're going silent for the moment.
但伊莎贝尔会随时在线帮我核实事实。
But Isabel will be live fact checking me as we go along.
罗茜现在已经离开这栋楼了。
And Rosie has now left the building.
谢谢，祝你愉快。
Thank you and good day.
是这栋楼，但不是那栋楼。
This building, but not the building.
她还在和我一起工作，而且干得很出色。
She still works with me and is still doing a brilliant job.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
那你这一周过得怎么样？
So how's your week been?
嗯。
Yep.
好。
Good.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我们收到了一封邮件。
We had an email come in.
这不是……
Isn't isn't that
这不就是我们工作的意义吗？
sort of the point of what we do?
嗯，这封邮件很重要。
Well, this is an important email.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
这封邮件来自北爱尔兰好莱坞的马修。
This one's from Matthew in Hollywood in Northern Ireland.
好的。
Okay.
我该担心这件事吗？
Should I be worried about this or not?
嗯，不用。
Well, no.
我……
I...
这件事我完全没听说过？
No mention of this come to me whatsoever?
我觉得我比你更该担心。
I think I should be more worried
比你更担心。
than you.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Good.
他没事。
That's He fine
他说，嘿，马丁，马特，PPS，GDPR，还有团队的其他成员。
says, hey, Martin, Matt, PPS, GDPR, and the rest of the team.
好的。
Okay.
我想他指的是他的铃铛。
Think I he means his bell.
他说，这里没有问题。
He says, no question here.
我只想说，我对马特决定改变格式感到非常生气。
I just wanna say how angry I am that Matt decided to change the format.
不是这样的。
It is not
我能站起来吗？
on Can I stand up?
我站起来你还能听到我吗？
Can you still hear me if I stand up?
勉强能听到。
Just about.
好的。
Okay.
因为格式变了，我没能好好听马丁那些充满智慧的金句。我觉得马特应该再被剥夺一个头衔，希望以后的播客能恢复原来的格式。
I could not properly listen to the genius words of wisdom from Martin due to the change in formatting I believe Matt needs another title taken away, and I hope the original format is reintroduced for future podcasts.
哦，这周干脆把教授的头衔也去掉算了。
Oh, let's just get rid of Professor this week.
不行。
No.
因为我的意思是，教授需要……
Because I mean Professor needs...
我觉得你没有让听众满意。
I think you you did not please the listener.
对于那些错过了上周那场乱七八糟的播客的人，我的意思是，听众们会知道的。
For those who missed the the the aberration that was last week's podcast, I mean, listeners will know.
这个播客是有固定格式的。
The podcast has a format.
我们先读一段，然后在偶数期接听来电，然后再读一段。
We start with a read, then we do a caller on the even numbers, then a read.
所以就是：读、来电、读、来电。
So it goes, read, caller, read, caller.
上周，马特一开始就接了个来电。
Last week, Matt started the podcast with a caller.
这给我们带来了很大的麻烦。
It gave us terrible problems.
那我们后来又打了一次电话，让它落在偶数上，还是我们最后做了个朗读？
Did we then do a call a second as well so that it was on the even number or did we do a read, which we ended up doing?
但到了第三个，你现在该怎么办？
But then on the third one, what do you now do?
你是按电话、朗读、电话、朗读来，还是电话、朗读、朗读、电话？
Do you go call a read, call a read, or do you go call a read, read, caller?
那真的让人很不安。
It it was it was really disturbing.
对我们这些喜欢秩序、有点强迫症的人来说，那简直是……
For those of us who like order, somewhat obsessively petite, it was...
而且我很高兴听众们对此也不满意。
And and I'm glad that the listeners were also unhappy about it as well.
你已经被扣了一个教授职位了
You have had a professorship docked
为他们。
for them.
不过，他后来确实又说，当然，我只是开个玩笑。
Well, he does actually then go and say, I'm only joking, of course.
而且他对你给予的帮助表示感激。
And he's grateful for the help that you've given him.
哦，他说其实……
Oh, he says actually...
但我不是开玩笑。
But I'm not joking.
他说他感激的不仅仅是马丁，而是整个团队给予的所有帮助。
He says he's grateful for all the help that not just Martin does, but the entire team.
确实如此。
That's absolutely true.
这是团队合作的结果。
It is an ensemble effort.
那就是我和你，伊莎贝尔？
That's me and you, Isabelle?
对，就是你和伊莎贝尔。
Yeah, that's you and Isabelle.
我负责提供答案。
I provide the answers.
伊莎贝尔负责核实事实。
Isabelle is fact checking.
马特负责把所有内容整合起来，并整理问题。
Matt is putting it all together and getting the questions in.
利奥当然是问题的策划者。
Leo, he's the curator of questions, of course.
这是团队合作。
It's a team effort.
我觉得我们现在应该真正回答一些问题。
I think now we should actually do some answering some questions.
我同意。
I agree.
那么，第一个问题来了。
So time for question number one.
这是个奇数，所以是读出来的，对吧，Matt？
It's an odd number, therefore it's a read, isn't it, Matt?
别担心。
Don't worry.
是读出来的。
It's a read.
是读出来的。
It's a read.
Becky 把这个发到了 martin nurse podcast at bbc dot co dot uk。
Becky sent this one in to martin nurse podcast at bbc dot co dot uk.
她说，嗨，Martin 和 Matt。
She says, hi, Martin and Matt.
你好。
Hello.
我的问题，简单来说，是想弄清楚《消费者合同条例》中关于定制商品的豁免条款。
My question, in short, is clarification on the exemption of custom made items in the consumer contracts regulations.
好的。
Okey doke.
如果一件商品是从下拉菜单里选的，但下单之后才制作，这算不算定制商品？
If an item is selected from a drop down menu but then made once the order is placed, Does this count as custom made?
我本来以为自己明白这不算，但现在有点不太确定了。
I thought I understood that it was not, but I'm slightly losing confidence.
还有，如果他们没有明确说明，比如错误地写着不接受退货，那他们是不是要承担退货运费？
And am I right that if they don't specify, in this case incorrectly saying no returns, that they are then liable for the return postage?
如果允许的话，再问一个问题：如果我的理解是对的，这不算定制商品，那他们怎么能这样操作？
Follow on question if allowed, and if I'm right that it is not custom, how can they get away with this?
我不太确定这是不是法律，但至少是法定权利。
I'm not totally sure if it's a law, but at least a statutory right.
法定权利就是法律。
Statutory right is a law.
法规本来就是法律。
Statute is by definition law.
那我们分两部分来说。
So let's split this into two.
先说说定制商品的豁免问题，然后再讲商家怎么钻空子。
Let's first of all talk about the exemption of custom made items and then we'll go on to how shops get away with it.
为了照顾那些不像贝基那么懂行的人，她在这问题上可能已经很清楚了。
So to catch up people who aren't as on it as Becky, and she's probably on it in this question.
如果你在网上买东西，从收到货那天起，你有十四天时间通知他们你想取消订单并退货。
If you buy an item online, you have up to fourteen days after it has been delivered to notify them that you want to cancel it and return it.
然后从你通知他们那天起，还有十四天时间把东西寄回去。
And then up to fourteen days after you've notified them to send it back.
所以总共最多是二十八天。
So that's a maximum total of twenty eight days.
但如果你两天后就通知取消，那你就只有十四天时间寄回商品。
But if you notify them of cancellation after two days, you only have fourteen days in which to send it back.
所以这个时间期限，其实会根据你的情况有所不同。
So the time period, it varies somewhat depending on you.
但有个例外，就是如果商品是个性化定制或者易腐烂的，因为很明显，如果你收到一束花，三天后就蔫了，那三天后蔫了也正常，然后你才决定要退回去，这对公司来说有点不公平。
The exemption to this is if items are personalized or perishable, because clearly, if you get a bunch of flowers that go off after three days, and that's fair for them to go after three days, and then you decide you're gonna send them back, that's a little bit unfair on the company.
所以这就是例外条款的由来。
So that's where the exemption comes from.
而且，因为这本质上是一种“改变主意”的规则，你在实体店是没有这个权利的。
And also, because this is effectively a change of mind rule, which you don't get in a shop.
在实体店，你只有在商品有瑕疵的情况下才有法律权利退货。
In a shop, you can only have a legal right to take stuff off if it's faulty.
但在网上，你有权改变主意，因为你没亲眼看到商品。
Online, you get a right to change your mind because you haven't seen the item.
如果商品是为你定制的，你就能理解为什么会有这个例外了。
If they've made the item for you, you can understand why the carve out was made.
现在具体说说这个例外是怎么回事，其实你在这里说的是，这是从下拉菜单里选的一个特定订单。
Now exactly what happens in the carve out, what you're effectively saying here is this is a specific order from a drop down menu.
比如说，他们可能会，我也不知道，我想了个特别糟糕的例子，但这就是我脑子里想的。
So let's say they might, I don't know, I've thought of a really terrible example, but it's what's in my head.
你知道吗，马特，你有时候会进那种店，里面挂着一堆刻着不同名字的钥匙链。
Know, you sometimes go into those shops, Matt, and they've got all those key chains with the different names on.
哦，对。
Oh yeah.
嗯，这算是定制的，但又不算，对吧？
Well, it's personalized, but it's not personalized, isn't it?
对，是啊，因为那些都是现成的。
Well, yeah, because they're all there.
没错。
Exactly.
你得找到
You have to find
你的名字。
your name.
我觉得我们这里说的个性化，其实并不是真正的个性化。
And I think what we're talking about here is personalized, but not personalized.
基于这一点，我得说这已经有点涉及法律问题了。
And so on the basis of that, I have to say it's getting quite legal.
那我能打破第四面墙吗？
So can I break the fourth wall?
我们能回到没有第四面墙的播客露台吗？
Can we go back to the podcast patio where there's no fourth wall?
好，去吧
Yeah, go
继续。
on.
所以你在前一周给我读了这个问题。
So you read this question out to me in a prior week.
是的。
Yes.
我当时说，我想先跟律师确认一下再回答这个问题。
And I said, I want to check with the lawyer before I answer it.
所以我现在带着律师的确认回来了，但我们之前没提到我们已经到了这一步。
So I'm now coming back with the lawyer's check, but we didn't put in the fact that we've got to that point.
好的，
Okay,
这是来自品诚梅森律师事务所的。
so this is from Pinsent Masons.
他们说，简短的回答是，消费者通常仍然享有十四天取消权，而且这些商品不会被认定为定制商品，但以下分析是基于具体事实的。
They say the short answer is that the consumer should usually still benefit from the fourteen day cancellation rights and the goods would not be considered custom made, subject to below as the analysis is fact specific.
现在，关键点在于法规中有两个不同的测试标准。
Now the key bits in the fact is there are two distinct tests under the regulation.
第一个测试关注的是消费者是否决定了产品的具体特性。
The first focuses on whether the consumer dictated the product specific characteristics.
所以你可以听出来，这是个性化的。
So you can hear it's personalized.
我要它这么大，这么宽，我要它这样工作。
I want it this big, I want it this wide, I want it to work this way.
但下拉菜单里并没有这个选项。
That didn't happen in the dropdown.
第二个测试是看产品是否对那个人来说是独一无二的，比如首字母或名字，但如果名字是客户指定的，并且已经被包含进去了，那就算。
The second on whether something is unique to that individual, for example, initials or a name, but a name would be if it was dictated, has been incorporated.
仅仅从预设的标准选项下拉菜单中选择，本身不太可能满足这两个测试中的任何一个。
Selecting from a preset dropdown menu of standard options is unlikely by itself to satisfy either test.
所以显然这里面总是有很多细节，但听起来律师们会强烈建议这家公司，你确实有退货的权利。
So clearly there's always details involved in this, but it sounds like the lawyers would strongly suggest that this company is, you do have a right of return.
那我们接着往下说。
Now we move on then.
所以贝基，我支持你，更重要的是，律师们也支持你，就是我们咨询过的消费者律师，顺便说一句，非常感谢他们，真的非常感谢。
So I'm with you, Becky, and more importantly, the lawyers are with you, the consumer lawyers that we check this with, and thank you very much them for doing that, by the way, it's really very much appreciated.
我支持你，他们没有这个权利。
I'm with you that they don't have a right.
那他们是怎么做到的呢？
So how do they get away with it?
好吧，我跟你说，这种情况非常非常普遍。
Well, let me tell you, this is very, very common.
其实我们查过，大概是今年年初或者去年年底的时候，我们查了400家零售商的线上退货政策，看它们是否符合法律规定。
In fact, we checked, it was either earlier this year or the end of last year, 400 retailers online return policies to see if they were compliant with what the statutory law is.
结果有30家，包括一些大型零售商，都不合规。
And 30 of them, including major retailers were not compliant.
他们说的内容是不对的。
What they said was not right.
比如他们会说，你有最多十四天的时间来退货。
For example, they would say, You have up to fourteen days to return items.
不对，你是有最多十四天的时间通知他们，然后再过十四天退货。
No, you have up to fourteen days to notify them fourteen days after to return.
或者他们会说，打折商品不享受这些权利。
Or they would say, You don't have these rights on sales items.
不对，这是不正确的。
No, that is not correct.
所以，看到你们网站上的法定权利说明有误，我一点也不意外。
So I have very little surprise that you have a website here that is specifying the statutory rights incorrectly.
他们之所以能这样，是因为监管相对薄弱。
And they get away with it because it's relatively unpleased.
这类事情本该由贸易标准局来处理，但这些年他们的预算被大幅削减了。
This is the type of things that Trading Standards should be doing, but we have decimated the budgets for Trading Standards over the years.
贸易标准局是个很好的机构，里面有很多优秀的人，但他们确实没有足够的资源来监管所有这些事情。
Trading Standards is a great organization, lots of great people work there, but they simply don't have the resources to be able to monitor all this type of stuff.
如果你愿意把详细信息发给我，我可以帮你转交，或者你也可以自己举报。
If you'd like to send me the details, I can possibly forward it on, or you can report it yourself.
但他们确实在违法。
But they are breaking the law.
他们向你传达的法律信息是错误的。
They are telling you the law incorrectly.
你仍然有合法的权利。
You still have the legal right.
所以，他们是否违法是有争议的，但他们确实在误导你关于法律的规定，我觉得这会让人不敢行使他们应有的法定权利，这不是一个好情况。
So it's arguable whether they're breaking the law, but they are misinforming you about what the law is, which I say would put people off exercising their statutory legal rights as they should do, which is not a good situation.
所以，我觉得这个情况有点复杂。
So, I mean, this one is a little bit more complicated.
说到底，说实话，只有法院才能判定具体情况是怎样的。
Ultimately, the truth is, I need to be honest with you, only a court could decide what the exact scenario is.
但如果是我的话，针对那个具体的零售商，我会联系公民咨询消费者直通车，告诉他们情况，如果零售商不让你退货，虽然我觉得你是在了解情况而不是真的想退货。
But what I would do if I were you on the specific retailer, I would speak to Citizens Advice Consumer Direct and tell them, and if the retailer is not letting you send it back, then although I think you're doing this as a, what is the situation rather than you actually want to send it back.
但我觉得我会强烈主张你拥有消费者合同法规下的那些权利。
But I think I would push very strongly that you have those rights under the consumer contract regulations.
真是个有趣的问题。
What an interesting question.
非常有趣。
Very interesting.
我很喜欢。
I enjoyed
对。
that.
很专业，所以你才这么喜欢。
Very technical, that's why you enjoyed it so much.
是的，我确实喜欢，我喜欢专业的内容。
Yeah, I did, I like technical.
而且，我还学到了一点东西。
Well, I also, I learned a little bit.
我之前从来没有深入研究过，到底什么才算个性化或易腐商品。
I hadn't ever gone into the specifics of what exactly defines personalized or perishable in that way.
我觉得这可以放进我未来的知识储备里，作为回答问题的参考。
And I think that's something that goes, it's going into the arsenal, the mental arsenal of answers for the future.
所以这是个好问题。
So that's a good one.
非常感谢你提出这个问题。
Thank you so much for that question.
好的，马特。
Okay, Matt.
我觉得是时候接听听众来电了，对吧？
So I think it's time for a caller, isn't it?
那就来吧。
Let's do it.
考文垂的威尔打来了。
Will in Coventry is here.
嗨，威尔。
Hi, Will.
嘿，伙计们。
Hey, lads.
你们好吗？
You alright?
你好，兄弟。
Hello, mate.
伙计们，我觉得我们从来没被叫过
Lads, I don't think we've ever been called
我挺喜欢被叫伙计的。
a I quite being a lad.
如果这是关于无遗嘱继承规则或者做便宜遗嘱的问题，我会很喜欢的。
I would love this if this was a question on intestacy rules or doing a cheap will.
因为那样的话，这就是威尔的遗嘱了。
Because then it would then be Will's will.
遗嘱在哪里呢？
Where does the will does it?
是关于那个吗？
Is is it about that?
可惜不是，我没那么聪明。
Unfortunately not, I wasn't that smart.
因为我本来可以讲一下，你看，怎么把话题硬塞进去。
Because I could have gone through the fact, look at this, how to shoehorn something in.
我本来可以讲讲遗嘱援助，现在可以预约十一月的，这样能以慈善捐款的方式获得便宜的律师起草遗嘱，或者十月是55岁以上老人的免费遗嘱月，他们可以免费立遗嘱，还有Octopus Legacy遗嘱服务。
I could have gone through the fact that will aid, you can currently book for November, which is a way to get cheap solicitor drafted wills in order for a donation for charity, or October is free wills month for people aged over 55 there, they can get free wills or there's Octopus Legacy wills.
我本来可以聊所有这些，但你剥夺了我的机会。
I could have talked about all of that, but you've denied me the opportunity.
所以我不打算提了。
So I'm not going to mention it.
你的问题是什么？
What's your question?
非常抱歉让你失望了，马丁。
I'm very sorry to disappoint you, Martin.
是的。
Yes.
所以我有个成功案例。
So I have a success.
等等。
Hold on.
如果你有成功的事，马特，放成功主题曲。
If you've got a success, Matt, play the success theme.
好的。
Okay.
现在，威尔，你的成功是什么？
Now, Will, what's your success?
嗯，根据你的指导和建议，我一直在存钱。
Well, using your guidance and sort of advice, I've been saving money.
这几年我一直在往高息储蓄账户里存钱。
I've been pumping money into high interest savings accounts for the last few years or so.
最近我实现了毕生的梦想，买了我的第一套房子。
And I've recently fulfilled a lifelong dream of buying my first house.
哦，那真的是一个成功。
Oh, that really is a success.
干得好。
Well done.
干得好。
Well done.
这始终是一个美好的人生目标，能让你在一个负担得起的房子里安定下来，给你安全感。
That's always a wonderful life goal and just can make you settle down in an affordable house and gives you security.
你是……
Are you...
你有家庭还是一个人住？
Do you have a family or are you by yourself or?
我一个人住。
I am by myself.
所以我想……
So I wanted to...
我基本上在18岁时就定下了一个目标
I basically had a goal when I was 18
太棒了。
Amazing.
我当时的目标是30岁前买一套房子，我做到了。
That I wanted to buy a house by the time I was 30, and I've achieved it.
我付了15%的首付，而且因为房屋检查报告里有一些三级问题，我还拿到了更优惠的价格。
I put down a 15% deposit on a house, and I managed to get it at a cheaper rate as well because my survey came back with a few category threes.
所以我就把价格压下来了。
So I managed to knock the price off.
真厉害。
Marvellous.
嗯，为了让你感觉更好，我33岁才买了第一套房子。
Well, just to make you feel even better, I bought my first house at 33.
哇。
Wow.
你比我早了一步。
Ahead you're of me in the line.
我……
I'm...
你才28岁，还没有房子呢。
You're 28 and don't have one yet.
所以你还有时间。
So there's still time for you.
29了，但是……
29, but...
20……
20...
哦，什么？
Oh, what?
我错过了你的生日。
I missed your birthday.
没有。
No.
你确实错过了。
You did.
那是八年前的事了。
It was eight years ago.
是在四月份。
It was in in April.
好吧。
Okay.
把那段剪掉。
Edit that bit out.
继续吧，威尔。
Carry on, Will.
我有个问题。
So I had a question.
好的。
Yes.
是关于能源价格上涨的问题。
And it was about the energy price hike.
对。
Yep.
我还没搬进新家，但我想知道能不能在搬进去之前先锁定一个固定费率。
So I've not moved into my new house yet, but I was wondering if it's possible to get on a fix before I move into my new house.
这要看情况。
It depends.
你现在是能源账单的支付人吗？
Are you currently an energy bill payer?
不是。
No.
那就很难了，因为你没有房产可以签合同。
Then it gets very difficult because you don't have a property to sign a contract for.
所以我想不出有什么办法能绕过这个问题。
So I can't think of a way around this.
你什么时候搬进新家？
When are you moving to your new house?
大概还要多久？
How long away are you?
我还没有确定日期。
So I don't have a date yet.
我想说一个月内搬，但还不确定。
I'd like to say I'm moving within the month, but I don't know yet.
好的。
Okay.
一般来说，转换需要五天。
So generally, it takes five days to switch.
你提前开始没有意义。
There is no point in you starting one beforehand.
对于其他听众，我稍后会解释一下，如果你的回答是肯定的，也就是说你有能力，有当前的能源账单，那么有一些建议我可以提供。
For everybody else listening, I'll go through a moment what the situation would have been if your answer had been yes, that you had the ability, that you had a current energy bill, because then there are some tips I can do.
其实我想跟你说，不用太担心。
I would actually say to you, I wouldn't worry too much.
好的。
Okay.
所以我呼吁大家换供应商，主要是针对那些在价格上限下的人，让他们脱离价格上限，因为这个上限太差了。
So my call for people to switch is a call for people who are on the price cap to get off the price cap because it's a pants cap.
它刚刚涨了。
It's just gone up.
上周四刚涨了，平均涨了3.6%。
It went up last week, last Thursday by 3.6% on average.
而且目前预测一月份还会再涨大约20%。
And it is currently predicted to be going up around 20% in January.
所以，现在你能找到一个比价格上限更便宜的固定费率合同，锁定一个比你现在付的还低的费率，而且很可能比一月份你要付的便宜很多，这意味着对于那些正在支付能源账单的人来说，赶紧换成固定费率合同是很紧迫的。
So the fact that you can currently get a fix cheaper than the price cap that locks in a rate cheaper than you are paying right now and will likely be very substantially cheaper than you are paying in January means it's quite urgent for those people who are paying for their energy bills to get on a fix.
但你的问题是，因为你没有固定费率合同，现在的固定费率合同实际上比以前贵不少。
But the issue for you is, as you're not on a fix, fixes right now are actually quite expensive compared to how they were.
如果你六周前锁定价格，那会便宜超过10%。
If you'd fixed six weeks ago, it would have been over 10% cheaper.
如果你在中东冲突开始前锁定价格，那会便宜大约20%。
If you'd fixed before the start of the Middle East conflict, it would have been around 20% cheaper.
大概估算一下。
Rough ballpark.
所以现在看今天锁定价格的实际成本，其实并不便宜。
So when we actually look at the cost of getting a fix today, it's not that cheap.
而且锁定价格每天都在变动。
And the prices of fixes move every day.
你一个月后要搬家，我之所以催你，是因为别再付太多钱了，赶紧锁定一个固定价格。
So you're moving in a month, my call for urgency is stop paying too much and get on a fix.
你现在没有多付钱，因为你根本没有能源账单要付。
You're not paying too much because you're not paying anything because you don't have an energy bill.
而且我也没法告诉你，因为固定价格一个月后会更贵还是更便宜，完全取决于全球宏观经济政策和国际政治的走向。
And I can't tell you because it literally depends on global macroeconomic policy and what goes on in international politics, whether fixes will be more expensive or cheaper than they are right now in a month's time.
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它们已经非常高了。
They are already very high.
要再高的话，情况得变得更糟才行。
Things would have to get even worse for them to be higher.
同样也有可能中东局势会稍微缓和，那样的话，一个月后的固定费率会比现在便宜。
There is equally a possibility we see a slight de escalation in The Middle East that means fixes are cheaper in a month's time than they are now.
所以既然你对此无能为力，我能给你的最好建议就是，现在不锁定费率，你完全有可能更划算。
So as there's nothing you can do about it, the best thing I can say to you is it is perfectly possible you'll be better off by not doing it now.
同样也有可能现在不锁定会让你更吃亏。
It's equally possible you'll be worse off by not doing it now.
但我不担心这个，因为你现在不用付能源账单。
But I wouldn't worry about it because you're not paying your energy bill right now.
这样讲你明白吗？
Does that make sense?
明白，完全明白。
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
这让我稍微安心了一点。
That puts me at ease a little bit.
那就好。
Good.
嗯，这正是我想做的。
Well, that's what I want to do.
现在我要来回答这个问题。
And I'm now going to answer the question.
假设我们要让你撒谎。
Let's pretend we're going to ask you to lie.
我们从不让人撒谎，但这次我要让你撒谎。
We never ask people to lie, but I'm going to ask you to lie.
我们不会剪辑这段。
We're not going to edit this.
我们会把两部分都播出来。
We're going to pay both bits in.
那你能对我撒个谎吗？
So could you lie to me?
威尔，你现在有在交能源账单吗？
So Will, are you currently paying an energy bill?
是的，我在交。
Yes, I am.
好，那我来给大家说说这种情况的答案，给所有正在听的人。
Hey, well, let me give you the answer for that scenario then, for everybody else listening in reality.
好的，现在市面上有两种能源账单。
Okay, so there are two forms of energy bills out there.
一种是可转移的，就是说你搬家的时候可以带着走，但如果你搬家时想停掉不带过去，就得付提前退出的违约金。
There are those that are portable, that literally means you could take them with you when you move house, but if you wanted to stop them when you moved house and not take them with you, you'd have to pay an early exit penalty.
还有一种是不可以转移的，这种如果你因为搬家而取消，他们不会收你提前退出的违约金。
And there are those that are not portable, and the ones that aren't portable, they will not charge you an early exit penalty if you ditch them because you're moving house.
这个可能每个套餐不一样，但通常是根据供应商来定的。
Now it can be tariff by tariff, but it tends to be at a provider level.
那我就说说供应商通常的做法，但你也应该总是去查一下具体的套餐。
So I'm gonna give you what providers normally do, but equally, you should always check with an individual tariff.
通常来说，可携带的套餐有British Gas、EDF、EON Next、Fuse Energy、Octopus、Ecotristi、Utility Warehouse；不可携带但搬家不罚钱的，有Outfox、OVO、Scottish Power、Sainsbury's Energy。
So normally the portable tariffs, British Gas, EDF, EON Next, Fuse Energy, Octopus, Ecotristi, Utility Warehouse, the non portable but no early exit penalties if you move house, Outfox, OVO, Scottish Power, Sainsbury's Energy.
所以如果你想上比价网站找最便宜的，而且想要可携带的，那你大概得看British Gas、EDF、EON Next、Fuse Energy、Octopus、Ecotristi和Utility Warehouse。
So if you want to go onto a comparison site and find your cheapest and you want a portable one, then you're probably looking for British Gas EDFE on next, Fuse Energy, Octopus, Ecotristian Utility Warehouse.
如果你现在就想锁定一个便宜的固定套餐，因为你现在正在付电费，对吧？那我就会看这些。
And that's what I would be looking at if you wanted to lock in a cheap fix right now because you're paying your bill right now, aren't you?
是的，
Yes,
先生。
sir.
非常感谢。
Thank you very much.
我觉得，虽然我们不能给一个来电者发两个徽章，但我觉得就冲你配合这一点，Matt，这几乎值两个徽章，但还是只能给你一个。
I think, I mean, we can't give two badges to one caller, but I think for playing along with that, Matt, I think that would have been almost worth two badges, but it's only one badge still.
只有一个徽章。
Only one badge.
只有一个徽章。
Only one badge.
抱歉，威尔。
Sorry, Will.
抱歉，所以……
Sorry to So what...
那这个徽章，你想寄到现在的房子还是新房子？
But the badge, do you want the badge sent to the current house or the new house?
哦。
Oh.
因为我们不想
Because we don't
它在邮寄途中丢了。
want it lost in the post in transit.
你知道吗？
You know?
我其实没想到这一点。
I I didn't think of this, actually.
我可能会考虑把它寄给我爸爸，他也是听众之一。
I might actually nominate to send it to my dad, actually, who's also a listener.
我们之前确实遇到过这种情况，有人因为搬家，在播客里聊过搬家的事，然后说寄到我妈妈家或者爸爸家。
We have actually had this before where someone said, because they're moving house, they've been on the pod talking about moving house and they've said, send it to my mom's house and my dad's house.
对，因为我是第一个。
Yeah, because I'm the first.
这太有价值了。
This is incredibly valuable.
确实。
It is.
我的意思是，威尔，我最担心你搬进来的时候，我们已经帮你省了不少钱。
I mean, my biggest worry for you, Will, moving in, we've saved you a lot of money.
但当你跟房屋保险公司谈财产价值时，告诉他们你有一个MartinLewisPodcast徽章，那可能会让价格大幅上涨。
But when you speak to the home insurer about the value of the contents, and you tell them that you have a MartinLewisPodcast badge, I mean, it could put the prices up hugely.
这真是有钱也买不到的东西。
I mean, it's money can't buy stuff.
我已经决定了，我要建一个神龛。不错。
I've already I've already decided I'm gonna build a shrine Nice.
为了
For
我们喜欢这样。
We like that.
它会放在一个小玻璃柜里，还有其他东西。
It's going it's going in like a little glass cabinet and everything.
这非常合适。
It's very appropriate.
那旁边会不会放一张马丁的小照片，或者其他什么东西呢？
And is there gonna be a little picture of Martin and something else next to it, maybe?
哦，那会是一张照片，
Oh, it'll be a picture of
你的，马特。
you, Matt.
哦，谢谢。
Oh, thanks.
记住，马特在徽章上。
Remember, Matt is on the badge.
任何拿到徽章的人，你就在……
Anyone who gets a badge, you're in...
是那个“我”字吗？
Is it the I you're in?
不是。
No.
我是说，其中一个句号。
I mean, one of the the the full stops.
末尾的那个省略号，就是三个点连在一起的那个。
The ellipses at the end, it's called, with the three full stops.
你就是其中一个省略号。
You're one of the ellipses.
里面还有一张马特的小照片。
There's a little picture of Matt in there.
他把自己藏进去了，藏得可深了。
He weaved he weaved all his way in.
我觉得是这样。
I guess.
你到时候得……
You'll to...
拿到手之后，你得用放大镜仔细看看这些。
Look at all this with a magnifying glass when you get it.
威尔，非常感谢你。
Will, thank you so much.
真的很感谢你，兄弟。
Really appreciate that, mate.
祝你好运，也恭喜你。
And good luck and congratulations.
谢谢你们。
Thank you, guys.
谢谢。
Thank you.
干杯。
Cheers.
干杯。
Cheers.
你是不是坐在那儿想，哦，我知道我想问他什么了？
Are you sitting there thinking, oh, I know what I wanted to ask him?
好吧，这就是你的机会。
Well, this is your opportunity.
如果你有问题，就发到 martinlewispodcastbbc dot co dot uk。
If you've got a question, then just send them in to martinlewispodcastbbc dot co dot uk.
还有，亲爱的马丁，请开始提问吧。
And please do start them, dear Martin.
不，亲爱的马特。
No, dear Matt.
亲爱的马丁。
Dear Martin.
亲爱的马特。
Dear Matt.
好的，马特，刚才我们解决了能源问题，你也调整了节目形式，那你肯定有东西要读给我听吧。
Right, Matt, so that was fixing energy and you fixed the format, so you must have a read for me.
等等，马丁，这是我们的实验性问题。
Hang on, Martin, this is our experimental question.
哦，我们要做那个吗？
Oh, we're doing that one, are we?
是的。
We are.
好的，各位，这非常令人兴奋。
Okay, this is very exciting everyone.
我们以前从未尝试过这个。
We have never tried this before.
所以对于这个问题，我把它发到了社交媒体上，因为我觉得它挺有意思的，然后请社交媒体上的人帮我回答，因为这是一个观点问题，是主观的，而不是客观事实。
So with this question, I put it on social media because I thought it was an interesting one and asked people on social media to answer it for me, because it's an opinion, a subjective one rather than a factual objective one.
不过，对于我们在播客开头讨论的那个复杂技术问题，我就不会这么做。
Now I wouldn't do that with the what the complex technical one that we started the podcast with.
所以我们把这个环节叫做“你们的答案”。
So we're calling this your answers.
马特，也许我需要一点混响效果。
Maybe I need some reverberation, Matt.
好的。
Okay.
这个我可以做到。
I can do that.
你的答案。
Your answers.
所以我会先给出你们的答案，然后再给出我自己的答案。
So I'm gonna give your answers, then I'm gonna give my answers on the back.
反响真是出乎意料。
The response was unbelievable.
有多少人回答了，真是厉害。
How many people answered was Okay.
所以你把它发在了Facebook和X上。
So you posted it on Facebook and x.
对。
Yep.
X上你得到了1100条回复。
X, you got 1,100.
所以是1100。
So 1,100.
1100，然后你
1,100, and then you
在Facebook上得到了2100。
got 2,100 on Facebook.
所以我们收到了大量的。
So we've had Massive.
我们收到了3300个对这个问题的回答。
We've had 3,300 responses to this question.
Matt，我们要把所有的都读出来吗？
Matt, are we going to read them all out?
我全都拿来了。
I've got them all here.
所以请稍等一下。
So if you just bear with me.
坐下吧。
Sit down.
把脚放好，准备好。
Put your feet up and get ready.
大家还在纳闷为什么播客有二十四个小时那么长。
People were wondering why the podcast was twenty four hours long.
播客马拉松。
Podcast marathon.
所以，Matt，你显然挑了一些要念出来。
So, Matt, you've clearly selected a few to read out.
我们可能应该先念一下问题。
We should probably read the question first.
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
所以这个是有人发来的。
So this one was sent in.
亲爱的马丁，我五十多岁了，以前因为对股市紧张，从来没投资过。
Dear Martin, I'm in my fifties and I'd never invested before due to nervousness about the stock market.
但去年，听了你的建议，我投了大约五千英镑到一个股票和股份ISA。
But last year, following your advice, I put about £5,000 in a stocks and shares ISA.
我当时觉得自己很勇敢，对自己很满意。
I felt very brave and happy with myself.
然而，第二天，特朗普轰炸了伊朗，我一夜之间亏了一百五十英镑。
However, the next day, Trump bombed Iran, and I lost a £150 overnight.
简直不敢相信自己这么倒霉。
Couldn't believe my bad luck.
我赶紧把钱又取出来了，怕亏得更多。
I hurriedly took it back out again, fearing I would lose even more.
你能对像我这样的人说点什么，让他们重新开始投资吗？
What can you say to someone like me to get them investing again?
我上网一看，到处都是警告，说更大的股市崩盘要来了。
When I look on the internet, it's full of warnings and even bigger stock market crash is coming.
真的会来吗？
Is it coming?
这个嘛，我也不知道会不会来。
Well, I don't know if it's coming or not.
没人能预测股市。
No one predicts the stock market.
我只知道投资是长期的事。
What I do know is investing is for the long term.
如果你当时没把钱取出来，我不知道你投的是什么基金，希望是投在某个投资基金里。
And if you hadn't taken that money out, I don't know what your, what fund, hopefully it was in an investment fund.
如果你是新手投资者，投的是全球指数基金、标普500指数基金或者英国指数基金，现在要是还留着，几乎肯定能赚到钱，前提是投在基金里。不过我不该回答这个问题。
If you're a beginning investor, a global tracker or an S and P tracker or a UK tracker, almost certainly you would have made money if you'd kept it in now, if it was in a fund, but I shouldn't be answering.
马特，大家都怎么说？
Matt, what have people been saying?
他们会怎么对焦虑的安吉拉说呢？
What would they say to anxious Angela?
所以埃德温娜·柯里回复了。
So Edwina Curry replied.
好的，就是前部长埃德温娜·柯里。
Okay, well, as in former minister, Edwina Curry.
对，她确实回复了。
Yeah, she did.
任何顾问都会告诉你，如果你选了一只好的股票，一家管理良好、没有太多债务的公司，而且所在行业增长前景不错，那你就拿着，股票会回升的。
Any advisor would tell you that if you have chosen a good share, a well run company that isn't loaded down with too much debt and a sector with good growth prospects, then you hang on, stocks recover.
原则上我同意，但我绝不会让新手投资者买单一股票，那风险真的非常高。
I agree in principle, although I'd never have a beginner investor in a single share, that really is very, very high risk.
我更鼓励人们买基金，比如像全球指数基金那种，里面有1500只股票。
I would be far more encouraging people to buy in a fund of, perhaps something like a global tracker that has a 1,500 shares in it.
这样你就分散了风险，风险回报比也相对平稳一些，把部分风险去掉了。
So you're spreading the risk and the risk reward profile is flattened a bit to take some of the risk out.
但原则上，是的，是的。
But in principle, yes, yes.
史蒂夫说，我设立了一只股票……
Steve said I set up a stock...
史蒂夫是前议员还是电视主持人？
Was Steve a former MP or television presenter?
我觉得不是。
I don't think so.
好的。
Okay.
他大约十八个月前设立了一个股票和股份ISA。
He set up a stocks and shares ISA about eighteen months ago.
一开始，我每天都查看它。
At first, I was checking it every day.
高兴得不得了，真是个错误。
Ecstatic such a mistake.
我知道。
I know.
涨的时候特别兴奋，跌的时候又慌得不行。
Ecstatic when it went up, panicking when it went down.
现在我就放着不管了，刚才看了一眼，收益率是13.99%。
Nowadays, I just leave it to itself, checked it just now and it's returning 13.99%.
我现在可开心了。
I'm a happy bunny right now.
不错。
Cool.
而且就算过了一年或十八个月，现在判断还太早。
And even after a year or eighteen months, it's too early to judge.
我们回到投资有效的基本前提上来。
Let's just go back into the basic premise of when investing works.
投资要有效，作为新手，你应该把那些五年内用不到的钱投进去，因为市场本身就是波动的。
Investing works, you should be looking at as a beginner for money you don't need that you're putting away for more than five years because the market is by definition volatile.
市场的本质就是有涨有跌。
The whole point of markets is they go up and they go down.
你要的是，我觉得，把它想象成过山车。
What you want, I think of it, think of it like a roller coaster.
它永远都是过山车，但你希望的是，最终的高度比你出发时更高。
It's always going to be a roller coaster, but what you're hoping for is a roller coaster where you end up higher than you started.
所以，你知道，就像过山车在爬悬崖一样。
So you're, know, it's like a roller coaster going up a cliff.
这就是你想要的。
That's what you want.
所以它会上下起伏，上下起伏，上下起伏。
So it's going to go up and down, up and down, up and down.
但最终的位置比你出发时高。
But where you end up is higher than where you started.
但如果你每天都盯着看，那就不是它存在的意义了。
But if you look at it every day, it's not what it's there for.
你不是做日内交易的。
You're not a day trader.
这不是你的职业。
It's not a profession.
你是把钱长期投在一个广泛的投资组合里，希望它能反映全球经济或者某个国家经济的表现，然后获得好的回报。
You're putting money away for a long period in a broad spread of investments, and you're hoping that it's reflecting the performance of a global economy or maybe one country's economy, and that's gonna do well, and it's gonna return you money.
每天看盘简直是噩梦。
Day by day nightmare.
对心理状态特别不好。
Terrible for the psyche.
所以Lee说，重要的是在市场上的时间，而不是抓住市场的时机。
So Lee said time in the market, not timing the market.
这句话太重要了。
Such an important phrase.
在市场上的时间比抓住市场的时机更重要。
Time time in the market beats timing the market.
没有人能完全猜对或猜错。
No one gets it right or wrong.
但如果你长期持有，关键是把那些涨跌平均下来。
If you hold it for a long time though, it's about balancing those averages out.
Jay，我最大的建议就是待在市场里，而不是试图抓住时机。
Jay, time in the market over timing the market is my biggest advice.
稳妥一点，买标普500，别把鸡蛋都放在一个篮子里。
Play it safe with S and P 500 instead of all eggs in one basket.
别一次性投5000，而是每个月投个400英镑，分散到一年里，这样就能赶上低点和高点。
Instead of 5,000 in one go, put monthly amounts of like 400 pounds a month over the year so you can catch those lows and highs.
所以这就是定投，另一个好方法。
So that's drip feeding, which is another good technique.
定投，或者叫平均成本法，最早是从美元成本平均法来的，它的原理是，你每个月投钱，而基金的价格会上下波动，那么某个月你可能买得便宜一点，下个月贵一点，再下个月可能又便宜了，或者更贵了。
So what drip feeding does or pound cost averaging or dollar cost averaging as it originally comes from, is if you're putting money in each month and the stock, the price is going up and down of that particular fund, well, one month you might be buying it slightly cheaper than the next month when it's more expensive and it might be cheaper again the month ends or more expensively after that.
所以，如果你一次性全投进去，然后价格跌了，你马上就亏了。
So instead of if you put it all in at once and then it drops, you've suddenly got a loss.
如果你一次性全部投入，然后它涨了，那你就赚了。
If you put it all in once and then it rises, you've got a win.
但如果你把同样金额的钱分散在一年里慢慢投入，你就是在分散短期波动对买入价格的影响，然后期待长期的收益。
But if you put it in the same amount of money in over a year as you're dripping it in, you're spreading out the short term volatility that affects the buying price and then you're hoping for the long term gain.
这就是……
That...
这就是其中的道理。
That's the philosophy there.
莎拉，每次特朗普一搞事情，比如发动战争，我的养老金账户就跟着遭殃。
Sarah, I watch my pension pot being hit every time DJT does something like start another war.
但我通过仔细观察学到，这是场马拉松，不是短跑。
But I've learned by watching closely that it's a marathon, not a sprint.
每次它都能恢复过来，而且涨得很猛。
Every time it's recovered and grown strongly.
当然，等到不久的将来我开始取钱的时候，我可能会发现自己说错了话，但我绝对不建议像这次这样冲动行事。
Of course, I might eat my words when the time comes in the not too distant future to start withdrawing it, but I certainly don't recommend any knee jerk reactions like this one.
而且你看，投资并不是稳赚不赔的。
And look, investing isn't guaranteed.
这正是关键所在。
That's the whole point.
你投钱进去是希望获得更高的增长，但代价可能是表现更差，对吧？
You're putting money in in the hopes of higher growth but the cost of it may perform worse, right?
你的钱可能会缩水。
And your money might shrink.
所以我们总是要先强调这个重要的警告。
So we always have to start with that important warning.
这就是为什么要分散风险，并且长期坚持。
This is why the spreading your risk and you're doing it over the long period.
风险总是在变现的那一刻出现。
The danger is always at the point of crystallization.
风险在于你不得不卖出的那一刻，这也是为什么这笔钱应该是你长期不需要用的，这样你才能计划好什么时候卖出。
The danger is at the moment that you have to sell, which is one of the reasons it's money you don't need for a long term so that you can plan when you're gonna sell.
如果你因为经济状况被迫卖出，那总是有风险的，因为你是在过山车往下冲的时候卖出，而其实你并不需要这么做。
If you're forced to sell because of financial circumstances, that can always be a risk because you're doing it at the down bit of the roller coaster when you don't need to be.
这就是为什么投资需要长期。
And that's why it's a long period.
但某种程度上，恐慌性抛售就是你之前做的，安吉拉，你能问这个问题真的很好。
But the panic selling in a way, which is what you did, Angela, and it's great you're asking the question.
你愿意重新考虑这件事，真的很好。
It's great you're open again to considering it.
我的意思是，有些人会认为，当市场刚下跌时，那正是买入的时机。
I mean, some people would argue when it's just gone down, that is the point to buy.
投资时，真正重要的其实只有三件事。
There are only really three things that matter when you're investing.
你买入的价格、你卖出的价格，以及你获得的任何收益。
The price you buy at, the price you sell at and any income you've earned.
而你选择在市场刚下跌时卖出，所以你就亏了钱。
And you chose to sell when it had just gone down, So you lost money.
当人们跟我说，我刚刚亏了，你知道，我因为股票下跌而亏了钱。
When people say to me, I've just lost, you know, I've just lost money because my shares have gone down.
嗯，股票是跌了，但这关乎每日的波动。
Well, they've gone down, but it's about that daily volatility.
你只有在卖出的那天才真正亏了钱。
You've only lost money on the day you sell.
如果你在下跌时把亏损变现，那你就亏了。
If you crystallize the loss when it's down, you've lost money.
如果你在上涨时变现，那你就赚了。
If you crystallize it when it's gone up, you've made money.
我知道这很明显，但很重要。
I know that's very obvious, but it's important.
你亏钱的原因，而且你没必要那样做，我理解你当时很紧张，是因为你在它刚下跌的那天卖出了。
The reason you lost money and not having to go in any way, I understand that you were nervous, is because you sold on the day it had just gone down.
Fay说，如果房子贬值了，你会马上卖掉吗？
Fay said, Would you quickly sell your house if it dropped in value?
投资也需要同样的心态。
Same mindset needed for investments.
只有在下跌时卖出，你才会亏钱。
You only lose money if you sell when it takes a dip.
所以我觉得这点我们已经讲清楚了。
So I think we've got that.
我觉得，很明显，我们大家，包括我和所有听众，都是同一条船上的。
I think, I mean, clearly we're all on the same boat, myself and all the answers out there.
我们有没有收到一些不同的意见，比如有人说你一开始就不该投资之类的？
Did we have any, we should always provide the contrarian view of some people who said you should never have been in it in the first place or anything like that.
是的，确实有几个人说，如果你是这样的心态，那你就不该投资。
Yeah, couple of people did say, if that's your mindset, then you shouldn't be investing.
对，我能理解这种说法。
Yeah, I can understand that.
而且这也有道理。
And it is right.
我觉得，你应该投资，但可能得调整一下心态，这是我比较倾向的看法。
I mean, you should be investing, but you should probably change your mindset is probably where I'd go on this.
而且，你知道，如果你问的话，会有三千种意见，总会有反对的声音。
And what about just because, you know, if you ask, you've got 3,000 opinions, you're always gonna get contrary ones.
有没有人跟你说过，投资就是骗人的把戏？
Do you have anyone who said investing is a mugs game?
我有时候会收到一些人的回复，说投资就是赌博，我不同意这种说法。
I mean, I sometimes get people respond to me saying, it's just gambling, which I disagree with gambling.
对我来说，赌博和投资的区别在于，赌博时，庄家总是要抽成的。
The difference for me between gambling and investing, by the way, is when you gamble, the house is always taking a cut.
所以，付出的钱总是比回报的多。
So there is always less money being paid out than is being put in.
而投资呢，因为跟经济增长和底层资产有关，所以整个蛋糕是在变大的。
When you invest, because it's about economic growth and there's underlying assets, then the whole pie is growing.
这不是同一个概念。
It's not the same construct.
我们有收到这样的回复吗？
Did we get any of those?
没有。
No.
哦，我挺惊讶的。
Oh, I'm surprised.
我找不到任何人
I couldn't find anyone
说别投资了。
to say, don't bother.
我是说，我们不能保证，我们有3300条回复。
I mean, we can't guarantee, I mean, were 3,300.
我其实没机会把每一条都看完。
I mean, I didn't get a chance to go through every single one.
所以挺有意思的，我们居然没收到这样的回复。
So it's interesting that we didn't.
所以我觉得大家都很积极，因为我认为在英国，我们在投资方面非常保守，这让人很沮丧。
So I think that people were very keen, because I think there's a lot of frustration that we in The UK are very risk averse when it comes to investing.
所以我觉得大家都很想说服别人。
So I think that people were very keen to persuade.
我也同意这一点。
And I would agree with that.
如果这笔钱你很长时间都不需要用到，也许可以再试一次。
If this is money you don't need for a long period, maybe have another go.
我觉得效果不错。
I think that worked well.
我也觉得不错。
I think it did too.
我觉得我们需要再找一些。
I think we need to find a few more.
你来回答问题。
Your answers questions.
你知道如果我们真的找到更多，而且它开始变得定期的话，我会怎么做吗？
And you know what I'll do if we do find them more and it starts becoming regular?
说吧。
Go on.
我会要求你给它配一个专属的旋律或者小曲儿。
I will be asking you for it to have its own like jingle or Jingle.
像那种歌一样。
Song like that.
我是说，它确实需要一个。
I mean, it needs one.
好的。
Okay.
你的回答，你的回答。
Your answers, your answers.
我们想听听你的回答。
We want to hear your answers.
你觉得呢？
Do you think?
把你的答案告诉我们。
Your your answers to us.
那怎么样？
How was that?
你觉得BBC会为一个完整的安静……付钱吗？
Do you think the BBC would pay for a whole quiet...
我是说，我只是……
I mean, I just...
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
我是说，我刚编了这段，我愿意放弃我的权利，我的知识产权，就为了我刚才那段绝妙的小曲儿。
Mean, I've just composed it, and I'm I'm willing to throw away my rights, my intellectual property for that incredible original ditty I just did.
我觉得我……
I think I...
我的意思是，也许……
I mean, maybe...
有没有伦敦爱乐合唱团？
Is there a London Philharmonic Choir?
我不知道，但我知道爱乐乐团在索尔福德。
I don't know, but I do know the the Philharmonic is based up in in Salford.
所以我总是可以过去，然后……
So I could always go over and
问一下。你可以去。
ask You could go.
我的意思是，那里……
I mean, there...
我的意思是，这……
I mean, it's...
我正看着伊莎贝尔，把她从话题中带出来。
I'm looking at Isabelle here, taking her out of a subject.
伊莎贝尔，philharmonic这个词是什么意思？
What does the word philharmonic mean, Isabelle?
我……
I...
我突然意识到我在文化方面太差了。
I've suddenly realized I'm so bad in culture.
是……
Is...
什么是philharmonic？
What is a philharmonic?
根据伊莎贝尔的说法，我想说如果她说错了，欢迎写信告诉她，这是她的第一期节目，所以她需要经历一次火的洗礼。
According to Isabelle, and I'd like to say if she's wrong, feel free to write in and tell her it's her first program, so she needs a baptism of fire.
根据伊莎贝尔的说法，这是一个相对无意义的术语，用于音乐和管弦乐团的名称中。
According to Isabelle, it is a relatively meaningless term that is used in the names of musical and orchestral groups.
所以按照这个定义，你可以有一个爱乐合唱团。
So you could have a philharmonic choir therefore under that definition.
你同意吗？点头还是摇头？
Do you agree nod or shake?
好的。
Okay.
所以她现在又反过来认为，它指的是交响乐团。
So she's now coming up with a converse decision that it's a symphony orchestra.
我不确定。
I don't know.
也许有人能告诉我们。
Maybe somebody can tell us.
爱乐乐团的定义到底是什么？
What is the definition of a Philharmonic?
嗯，我想我找到了
Well, think I found
它。
it.
好，继续吧。
Okay, go on.
我觉得我又要赢过伊莎贝尔了。
I think I'm gonna beat Isabelle her again.
不。
No.
伊莎贝尔，说句公道话，她不在场，没法核实音乐方面的事情。
Isabelle, to be fair, isn't here to fact check on musical stuff.
确实。
True.
所以在这个斯德哥尔摩皇家爱乐乐团的网站上
So on this Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra website
好的。
Okay.
他们说这是一个常见的问题。
They say it's a commonly asked question.
交响乐团。
A symphony
我知道，管弦乐团。
orchestra I know.
关于像我这样的普通人提出的问题。
About the question asked by someone common like me.
描述性的……
Is the descriptive...
所以交响乐团就是演奏交响乐的管弦乐团的描述性名称。
So symphony orchestra is the is the descriptive name of an orchestra that plays symphonies.
这很清楚。
That is clear.
它来自希腊语symphonia，意思是，对。
It comes from the Greek symphonia, meaning Yeah.
我们想要爱乐乐团。
We want phillomonic.
声音的。
Of sound.
等一下。
Hang on.
philharmonic这个词是由……
The word philharmonic comp...
由希腊词philos和harmonicos组成，基本上就是爱好和谐或热爱和谐的意思。
Composed of the Greek word philos and harmonicos essentially means a friend or love of harmony.
好的。
Okay.
所以合唱团也可以是爱乐性质的。
So a choir could be philharmonic.
我觉得可以。
I think so.
所以是他们彼此之间和谐共鸣吗？
So is it them that harmonize with each other?
我的意思是，我会这么说。
I mean, I would argue.
我会说这个播客《为什么是它》
I would argue this podcast Why is it
是和谐的？
a harmonic?
我觉得它就像是一个合奏版的《问答时间》。
I think it's Question Time as an ensemble.
我们算是一个爱乐播客吗？
Are we a philharmonic podcast?
因为我们很和谐。
Because we're in harmony.
所以是《马丁·刘易斯爱乐问答时间》播客吗？
So is it the MartinLewis Philharmonic Question Time podcast?
太啰嗦了。
It's too wordy.
去掉它。
Get rid of it.
我喜欢。
I like it.
我不喜欢。
I don't.
好吧。
Okay.
对吧，马特？
Right, Matt?
这是偶数。
It's even number.
这是节目里的第四个。
It's the fourth one in the show.
上周你完全打乱了流程，搞得我录完节目后还得躺下来缓一缓，因为我实在受不了你不按顺序来。
After all of your format breaking last week, which needed me to have us lie down after we'd done the recording because I couldn't cope with you doing things out of order.
我们回到正常了，偶数集，是个来电。
We're back to normality, even number, it's a caller.
对吧？
Correct?
是个来电。
It's a caller.
是的。
Yes.
但是什么？
But What?
没太打破规则。
Not breaking it too much.
好的。
Okay.
成功了。
It's a success.
这是本周的成功案例。
It's a success of the week.
所以我们要播放主题曲。
So we'll play the theme.
我们都……
We've all...
等等。
Hold on.
等等。
Hold on.
你们已经有过本周的成功案例了吗？
Have you already had a success of the week?
嗯，这个，这个……
Well, this is this is
是正式的、正经的成功。
the formal, proper success.
这是我们的大成功。
This is our big success.
那只是听众提问前的开场小成功，没错。
That was a preamble success in a caller question Exactly.
对吧？
Wasn't it?
这是你真正的成功，只是成功，不是提问。
Is this is your actual, it's only a success, not a question.
对。
Yep.
我允许了。
I will allow it.
你可以播放本周成功。
You can play success of the week.
好的。
Okay.
是CJ。
It's CJ.
她在格拉斯哥。
She's in Glasgow.
嗨，CJ。
Hi, CJ.
嗨，Martin。
Hi, Martin.
嗨，Matt。
Hi, Matt.
嗨，团队。
Hi, team.
你好。
Hello.
你好，CJ。
Hello, CJ.
你知道的，我一直很喜欢成功的故事。
I'm always love a success, as you know.
那我们做了什么？
So what did we do?
嗯，马丁，我这周的成功完全归功于你。
Well, Martin, so my success of the week is entirely down to you.
今年夏天早些时候，也就是七月份，我像往常一样开车上班时听播客，你几乎是一带而过地提到，如果有人缴纳私人养老金并且是高税率纳税人，我们可能需要自己申请一些税收减免。
So earlier this summer in July, I was listening to the podcast while driving into work, as I often do, and you mentioned kind of almost in passing that if someone pays into a private pension and they're a higher rate taxpayer, that we might need to claim some tax relief ourselves.
我当时就想，等等，这不就是我嘛。
And I thought, hang on a moment, that's me.
自从我离开私营部门加入NHS以来，我一直通过银行直接借记向Aegon个人养老金缴费，这已经是十四年前的事了。
I've been paying into an Aegon personal pension by direct debit from my account since I left the private sector for the NHS, which was fourteen years ago.
我从18岁起就有养老金了，因为我一直听从马丁·刘易斯这位先知的建议，现在……
I've had my pension since I was 18, because I do what I'm told by the Oracle MartinLewis, and now...
但我可没那么老。
But I'm not that old.
好，简单说一下。
Okay, just quickly.
不知道。
Don't know.
神谕也可以很年轻。
Oracle's can be young.
我们不必有偏见。
We don't have to discriminate.
好，不错。
Okay, good.
所以我现在是苏格兰NHS的主任，而且是苏格兰高税率纳税人。
So I'm now director in the NHS in Scotland, and I'm a Scottish advanced rate taxpayer.
我不做自我评估，因为都是通过PAYE管理的，我从来没真正考虑过养老金的税收减免。
So I don't do a self assessment, because it's all managed through PAYE, and I ve never really considered tax relief on pensions.
我的账单上只写着政府加了税收减免，所以我就以为，那就这样了。
It just says on my statements the government has added tax relief, so I assumed, well, that s that.
所以那天我上班后，登录了我最喜欢的AI工具，问它这个适不适用于我，然后我在网上翻了一些我的账单，发现Aegon只加了基本税率20%，但我从来没申请过我有资格获得的额外减免。
So when I got into work that day, I logged on to my favourite AI tool and asked whether it would apply to me, and I looked through some of my statements online and realized that Aegon was adding the basic rate 20%, but that I'd never claimed any additional relief that I was entitled to.
然后我上了HMRC的网站，真的超级超级简单。
So I went on to the HMRC website and it was so, so, so easy.
我花了大概四十分钟，把还能申请的四年都提交了申请表格，然后计算就开始进行了。
It took me about forty minutes to submit claim forms for the four years that were still claimable, and then the calculation started make through.
所以仔细检查之后，他们发现有一年我欠了他们59英镑，但即使扣掉那笔钱，HMRC到目前为止已经退给我1853.47英镑了。
So checking everything out did mean that they uncovered a year where I owed them $5.00 £9 but even after that was accounted for, HMRC has so far refunded me thousand £853.47.
太好了！
Lovely!
这很厉害，对吧？
That is massive, right?
我想告诉你这件事的原因是，我一直觉得自己挺精明的。
And I think the reason I wanted to tell you is that I do consider myself to be extremely savvy.
我平时处理大笔预算，但我真的完全不知道我需要做这个。
I deal with huge budgets for a living, but I genuinely had no idea I needed to do this.
所以我想，肯定还有很多其他按较高税率缴纳PAYE、又有私人养老金的人，也没意识到这一点。
So I figured there must be loads of other PAYE higher rate taxpayers with private pensions who don't realise either.
这真是太好了，感谢你这么热心分享，也谢谢你愿意站出来说这些。其实我们每个人都可能在某些事情上栽跟头。
This is, well, it's wonderful, and thank you for your evangelism, and thank you for coming out and saying, you know, and the truth is we can all get caught by something.
我自己也会遇到一些没想到的事情。
I can get caught by stuff as well.
这种事谁都可能碰上，但一旦学会了，就明白了。
It happens to all of us, and once you learn, it comes through.
所以我真的很喜欢这个分享。
So I really love it.
真的很喜欢。
I really love it.
让我简单解释一下。
Let me just explain it briefly.
基本上，这主要涉及那些通过源头抵扣方式缴税的人。
So basically this is primarily about people who do relief at source.
所以这就是你自己往养老金里存钱的情况。
So that's where you're paying into your own pension.
当你自己往养老金里存钱时，不是从工资里直接扣，也不是雇主帮你操作的那种，通常不是税前扣除，也不是工资牺牲计划，而是你有养老金账户，你把钱存进去，他们向税务局申请20%的基本税率减免，然后加到你的账户里。
When you pay into your own pension, so it's not coming off, your employer isn't doing it for you where it's often, it's taken straight out of your salary before tax, or it's not salary sacrifice, you've got a pension provider, you put the money in, they claim 20% basic rate relief from HMRC and it adds it to your pot.
所以如果你存80英镑，只要在你年收入范围内，就会有100英镑进账。
So if you put an £80, a £100 goes in as long as it's within the amount that you're earning in a year.
但如果你是更高税率纳税人，你有权拿回你本应缴纳的剩余税款，而且你得自己去申请。
But if you're a higher rate taxpayer, you are entitled to the rest of the tax that you would have paid back and you have to claim that.
真的就这么简单。
It really is that simple.
而这就是你做的，对吧？
And that's exactly what you did, isn't it?
我唯一没完全搞清楚的是，有时候他们做了，有时候没做。
So the only thing I didn't quite pick up straight was sometimes they had done this and sometimes they hadn't.
这就是关键点吗？
Was that the point?
我觉得是因为有些年份我交的税本来就少了，然后这个就被发现了。
I think it was because there were years where I had paid too little tax anyway, and this had discovered it.
太好了，没错。
Perfect, right.
所以是的，因为再说一次，这个你应该知道，有几百万人税号是错的。
So yes, because again, and this you will know, millions of people have the wrong tax code.
税号就是告诉你的雇主在PAYE下该扣多少税，这个你也得自己检查。
The tax code is what tells your employer how much tax to take when you're on PAYE, and you have to check that one too.
而且这些错误有上百万个，这是个人责任，不是雇主或HMRC的责任。
And there are millions of errors in those, and that is the individual's responsibility, not the employers or not HMRC.
真是个精彩的故事，还赚了3英镑。
What a wonderful story and $3 to boot.
我是说，显然，我们总是会说，3英镑很值钱，对很多人来说也很有启发。
I mean, clearly, as we'll always say, $3 is very valuable and it's inspirational for many people.
而且我觉得很多人会从中得到启发，但这比不上你上过这个节目这件事，你知道的。
And I think many people will say from it, but it isn't as valuable as the fact that you've now been on the show, and you know
哇，真的吗？你太厉害了。
what Oh, wow, you're gonna exactly.
无价之宝。
Priceless.
无价之宝。
Priceless.
除了这些钱，你还会收到一枚徽章。
There is a badge coming your way on top of all the money.
哦，太感谢了。
Oh, thank you so much.
哦，谢谢。
So Oh, thank you.
现在我们通常不会这么做……
Now what we don't normally do...
我对这个很感兴趣。
I'm interested to this.
作为常听节目的听众，我们是不是你开车时的伙伴？
As a regular listener, are we your car companions?
我们通常是不是就在车里听播客？
Is that our normal place, the pod?
我经常要通勤。
I I do a lot of commuting.
我每周大概要通勤十个小时。
I commute about ten hours a week.
所以我有一份固定的播客清单，定期听。
So I've got a a roster roster of regular podcasts that I listen to.
所以每次有机会，我都会听你和Adrian、你和Matt的节目，而且总能从中得到一些启发，应用到日常生活中。
So I listen to you and Adrian and you and Matt every time I get the opportunity to, and always have a little nugget of something that I take away and apply to my everyday life.
哦，我就说到这儿吧，因为不能再好了，对吧，Matt？
Oh, I'm going to leave it there because it couldn't be any better, could it, Matt?
对，不能再好了。
No, it couldn't.
这真是没法再好了。
Can't do anything with that.
真希望你是……
I wish you were...
真希望你上周录BBC节目的时候说这个，那时候我们正需要一些宣传语和预告。
I wish you'd done this last week when we were recording the BBC of putting out some trails and some promos for us.
我们就能用上那句话了。
We could have used that sentence in it.
太棒了。
Was so wonderful.
我本来可以的。
I could have done.
我会发给他们的。
I'll send it to them.
随时都可以。
Anytime.
马特有我的号码。
Matt has my number.
是的，我有。
I do.
非常感谢你。
Thank you so much for that.
我们喜欢成功的故事，这真是个好消息，我希望
We love a success, and that's such a good one that I hope
谢谢你，马丁。
Thank you, Martin.
能有更多人这么做。
Can get many other people doing it.
谢谢你的来电。
Thank you for calling.
很感激。
Appreciate it.
干杯。
Cheers.
谢谢你们两位。
Thank you, both.
干杯。
Cheers.
谢谢。
Thanks.
再见。
Bye.
我很喜欢阿德里安、马丁、阿德里安和马特。
Loved Adrian and Martin and Adrian and Matt.
我也是。
I did.
怎么可以
How can
你怎么看出来的？
you tell?
所以，Matt，我可以……
So, Matt, I could...
把那段留着。
Just keep that in.
那段得放进去。
That bit needs to go in.
对吧，Matt？
Didn't you, Matt?
她说Martin和Adrian，还有Martin和Matt的时候，你有多高兴？
How happy were you that she said Martin and Adrian and and Martin and Matt?
我……
I...
我非常喜欢。
I enjoyed it a lot.
我就说这么多。
That's all I'm gonna say.
因为大家还在等马特呢。
Because we're still waiting everybody for Matt.
马特需要获得他的名气积分。
Matt needs to get his fame points.
如果有人遇到马特，而那个人不是BBC的员工，需要说：你是马丁·刘易斯播客里的马特吗？
Someone, when they meet Matt who does not work for the BBC, needs to say, are you Matt from the MartinLewisPodcast?
需要有人对他说这句话。
Someone needs to say it to him.
如果你在听，并且你遇到一个29岁、原本是伯明翰口音、在曼彻斯特工作的BBC电台制作人，他的名字叫马特，那你可能想确认一下：你不是马丁·刘易斯播客里的马特吧？
If you're listening and you ever meet a 29 year old, originally brummy, Manchester based BBC Radio producer, and his name is Matt, then you might wanna check, you're not Matt from the MartinLewisPodcast, are you?
前几天我在火车上，我在说话，我转向卢克，然后
I was on a train the other day and I was talking and I I turned to Luke and
我就在想，我在想
I was like, I wonder if I wonder
有没有人认出我的声音，然后听过这个播客。
if anyone here recognizes my voice and listens to the podcast.
因为我确实看到一个人，我透过缝隙看到他们手机上正在听这个播客，我真的很想过去。
Because I did see someone, I looked through the gap and I could see on their phone they were listening to the podcast And I really wanted to go.
真的吗？
Could you really?
你能……
Could you...
那是很久以前的事了。
This was a while ago.
那是我刚开始做播客的时候。
This is when I first started on the podcast.
我看到他们在听。
And I saw that they were listening to it.
我真的很想说，天哪。
And I really wanted to be like, oh my god.
那就是我。
That's me.
而我的反应正好相反。
And then I have the opposite reaction.
我会尽量低下头，缩在角落里，不是因为不喜欢，我很喜欢别人跟我打招呼，但我……
I try and put my head down and just and just shrink in the corner because I have, not in a bad way, I love people saying hello, but I...
以前在火车上，我遇到过这种情况，一个人认出我之后，突然所有人都开始问我问题，我就像在做一场手术一样，一路回答个不停。
When I've been on trains before, I have ended up having to do a surgery where one person notices and then suddenly I'm doing everyone's questions all the way.
嗯……
Well...
我要是说“我还有自己的工作要做”，会觉得很不好意思。
I feel really bad going, I have actually got my own work to do?
真的很抱歉，我赶着交稿呢。
I'm so sorry, I'm on the deadline.
但事情就是这样。
But so there we go.
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