Listening Deeper: The AI Stethoscope Reimagined - Lapsi Health

整个安全流程中，我们有一项叫电子安全认证，也就是EMS认证。

So all all the way, safety from for instance, we have something called electronic safety, which means that it's it's a it's called an EMS certification.

你需要证明，电子设备不会对患者造成任何伤害。

Basically, you have to prove that you the electronics won't cause any harm on patients.

此外还有皮肤测试和细胞毒性测试，也就是皮肤刺激测试，必须确保产品中接触患者的部分不会引起皮肤刺激或过敏反应。

And then you have something called the skin tests and cytotoxicity tests, and that means that you basically are or skin irritation tests, you have to prove that your solution and the part that basically touches the patient won't irritate their skin, won't cause any reactions.

整个产品是安全可用的。

It is safe for usage.

必须使用经FDA批准的材料，同时还要对这款产品所用的每一种材料单独做实验室检测，确保它们对人体安全。

You have to use only FDA approved materials and still go and do lab tests just on all the materials that have been used on this specific surface so we know that they are safe for human interaction.

当然，还需要通过网络安全测试，因为我们的系统要接入电子健康记录，还要通过蓝牙芯片和手机传输数据。

You have to have cybersecurity tests, of course, because we're talking about, like, a solution that will be integrated with EHRs, but also that is, you know, leveraging data from Bluetooth chip all the way to a phone.

必须确保信息是加密传输的，防止被其他设备截获或窃取。

So you have to make sure that you are delivering encrypted information, that it can't be just hijacked by another phone and obtained that information being obtained.

这些要求都超出了我们对患者输出结果的验证范围。

And that is outside of just the output of our validation on patients.

我们现在还做了患者验证。

Now we also did validation of patients.

我们开展了一些研究，把设备交给医生使用。

We did basically studies where we gave the device to physicians.

我们需要招募患者参与。

We we had to enroll patients.

他们使用设备听诊，然后告诉我们，是否能像传统设备一样清晰地听到所有心音。

They had to use the device, listen, and tell us their if they were able to listen all the auscultation with the same clarity as a typical device.

接着我们进行了临床试验。

Then we went through a clinical trial that we did.

我们目前还在南美洲开展另一项试验，验证该设备在儿科和小儿心脏病学中的应用。

We and we still are doing another one in South America, where we are validating the solution in pediatrics and in pediatric cardiology.

所以我们必须完成多个验证环节。

So we had to really do multiple validation endpoints.

每一个环节都有独立的可审计追踪矩阵，我们还得依据相关监管指南，才能获得FDA批准。

Each each one of them had their own auditable, you know, trace traceability matrix, and then we needed to basically use some regulatory guidelines to be able to obtain the FDA clearance.

然后你还得先拿到ISO认证，这是FDA审批的前提。

And then you have the ISO certification that is a prerequisite to the FDA validation.

所以你得先让公司作为医疗器械企业通过ISO认证。

So you need it to be ISO certified as a medical device company.

这本身又是一个巨大的挑战。

So that is another monster of its own.

得接受审核，而且 paperwork 多得吓人。

You have to have an audit, and there's, like, an amount of paper trail.

我的意思是，文件量简直离谱。

I mean, the amount of documentation is insane.

我们把这些都搞定了，可这还只是第一步。

So we did all that, and that was just, like, for the step one.

就像你说的，这过程确实很难，但我总觉得这是成长的阵痛，熬过去之后，估值就会迎来巨大突破。

I mean, as you said, it is something that is difficult, but I always see it as pain you know, something like growth pains that eventually will give you a fantastic valuation opportunity.

如果你是个初创公司的创始人，每完成一项监管要求，都是给公司估值添一块砖。

If you're thinking like a startup founder, every single piece of regulatory achievements becomes a valuation price point for your company.

我觉得，要是能听听你们在硬件开发上经历的全过程，一定会特别有启发。我明白为什么硬件领域几乎成了护城河——因为要走的步骤实在太多了。

And I think, you know, it's it's it'd be really insightful just to hear, like, the process that you had to go through for the hardware side, and I can see why it's almost a moat to develop in hardware because of all these steps that people need to get through.

你们已经把这些都做完了，这真的非常了不起。

So first, that's that's really impressive that you're you're you're you've done all that already.

我想聊聊你们提到的那项临床试验。

I did wanna talk a little bit about that clinical trial that you mentioned.

听起来这个试验是在秘鲁进行的，主要是评估Keiku设备和普通听诊器在检测心脏杂音方面的效果差异。

It sounds like you're you know, this trial is, is in Peru, and you're doing, basically evaluating the efficacy of of Keiku against normal stethoscopes and seeing if there's a difference in in murmurs being registered.

在深入之前，我想说，每当我看到有产品正在开展正式注册的临床试验，都觉得这是个明确的信号——说明你们对这件事的认真程度，已经超越了单纯的合规要求。

Before you get into that, just wanna say, I think whenever I see, like, actual, you know, registered clinical trials for a product that are in development, I think that's a a sure fire sign to show, like, the level of, seriousness you're going towards this on top of the regulatory stuff.

尤其是你们的目标客户是那些已经在研究Klein的医生，如果他们在ACC会议这类场合看到关于你们设备的研究数据，会立刻建立起信任，因为你们是用科学方法说话的。

Just because especially when you're selling to physicians who are already researching Klein, seeing a study at the, you know, ACC conference or something about, you know, what your device is doing, I think, is it builds serious trust because you're you're grounding in the scientific process.

但同时，这事儿确实很难。

But all at the same time, it's it's it's hard.

要做一项设计严谨的临床研究，真的特别特别难。

It's very, very hard, to to do a study and do a well designed study.

所以我挺好奇的。

So I'm curious.

我知道你之前聊了不少关于监管方面的内容，但很想多听听你们在设备研究这块具体是怎么做的。

I know you talked a lot about the regulatory side, but would love to hear a little bit more on that side of how you're going about doing the research on your device.

目前我们的研究主要是在儿科心脏科领域进行验证，不过同一项研究里也会用到一些成年患者。

I mean, the the research, that we're doing currently is, to validate it mostly in a pediatric cardiology setting, but we also are using some adults in the same study.

简单来说，我们在利马的三家医院里有一支大约八位心脏病专家组成的团队，正在对比这款设备和传统听诊器在识别心脏杂音方面的有效性及其输出结果。

Basically, we have a team of around eight cardiologists in Lima and in three different hospitals, and we are looking into the efficacy of the device and its outputs compared to traditional stethoscopes in the identification of murmurs.

我们的想法是，让大家都能放心地接入这个超棒的 AI 平台。

The idea for us is to be able to know that our device, whenever you decide to jump into the into this amazing AI platform that you jump with confidence.

同样，医疗机构也能放心地使用，心想：嘿，

Also for health institutions that they can jump with confidence and say, hey.

我们的专业人员不仅依靠文档和大型语言模型获得支持，还能获得诊断方案的支持。

You know, our our professionals are not only being, you know, enabled by documentation and and LLMs, but also enabled with diagnostic solutions.

那我们要怎么做呢？说实话，整个研究审批过程简直太折磨人了，你得有专业的临床试验专家。

So how we did this, we basically I mean, the whole process of getting a study approved is another horrible thing, you know, where you have to have your proper clinical trials expert.

这次呢，Diana是我们的专家。

In this case, Diana is our expert.

她有博士学位。

She's a PhD.

她发表过很多论文。

She's she's multiple publications.

你去Google Scholar上搜她，就能看到她所有的论文。

If you look for her on Google Scholar, you'll find all the publications she has.

所以，这项研究她可是核心人物。

So, of course, she was the anchor for the research.

对吧？

Right?

研究方案就是她写的。

So she wrote the protocol.

她负责联系伦理委员会。

She contacted the ethical medical committee.

我们和首席研究员合作，确保伦理委员会批准后，团队能接受充分培训，设备也能顺利运抵国内。

We worked together with the PI to be able to make sure after the ethical committee approval was done to ensure that the the teams were getting properly trained, that the devices were arriving into into the country.

这又是个问题。

That was another another issue.

当时我们就想，好吧。

It was like, okay.

那设备该怎么安全运到当地呢？

How do we get the devices now arrive there safely?

对吧？

Right?

我们得确保设备在该国获得针对本研究的临时监管许可。

We had to, like, make sure that we they get a provisional, regulatory approval in the country specific for the study.

结果设备一到海关就卡住了，这也在意料之中。

And then they got stuck in customs as of course.

你懂的。

You know?

我的意思是，你根本不用怀疑。

I mean, you shouldn't even doubt it.

它们肯定会卡在海关。

They will get stuck in customs.

对吧？

Right?

那我们该怎么应对海关扣留的问题呢？

So then how do we get, you know, stuck in customs?

我们什么时候才能正式启动研究？

When do we start the research process?

在秘鲁，我特别喜欢在自己的国家做研究，因为当地人对科研非常认真。

And then in Peru, specifically, I love doing doing research in my home country because one is they are very serious about their studies.

疫情期间，秘鲁是多家疫苗公司最重要的研究中心之一，这也让国内的临床研究形成了一个独特的中心。

They were one of the biggest hubs for studies during the pandemic for multiple vaccine companies, and that created a very interesting hub of clinical research happening in this in the country.

我们做研究的这个地方本身就是一个支持力度很大的学术中心，这让我们很有底气。

The the place where we're doing the study also is a very supported academic academic center for research, which also allows us to be able to, really brag about it.

但关键是，我们必须和他们紧密合作，才能让这事成行。因为我们一开始在那边启动流程时，规定就要求我们必须为招募的患者提供午餐。

But the the point is that we really have to work with them very hard to be able to make this happen because we when we started the process in there, the regulation says that we also have to deliver some so the the patients that are recruited, they have to obtain, like, a lunch.

他们必须充分了解整个情况。

They have to be very well informed.

得给他们印好书面材料，安排专人详细讲解整个流程，还要提供午餐、交通、住宿这些福利——这些都是吸引他们参与研究的关键。

There has to be, you know, paper printed for them, a person that explains them the whole procedure, and then some benefits for them regarding, like, lunch and transportation, accommodation, and all those things are the ones that are recruited into the into the the study.

这基本上就是法律对我们提出的要求，再加上临床研究本身的时间安排。

So that is very basically what the law demands us to do, plus the part of the clinical research and the times that it starts.

规定非常明确，也必须严格执行。

It is very specific and very, let's say, compulsory.

你得等到伦理医疗委员会正式批准后才能启动，也得在他们下令终止时立刻结束。

So you have to start when the when the ethical medical committee has given you and granted you the permission to start, and you have to end when it gave you the order to end.

所以我们当时就像有个倒计时在催着我们。

So that means that we had to we had we had a clock ticking.

你懂的。

You know?

设备滞留在秘鲁机场的海关，而我们原定一周后就要启动项目。

The devices were in port in in the in the airport in Peru, stuck in customs, and we were supposed to start in a week.

所以我不得不飞一趟南美洲，去看看团队是否准备充分，确认他们需要哪些文件，以及我需要签署哪些材料。

So, I mean, it was I had to travel all the way to South America to see if the team was well prepared, which documentation they needed, which documentations I need to sign.

最后，我们严格遵循了所有合法流程，总算赶在项目开始前把设备从海关取了出来。

Eventually, everything we followed all the the appropriate, you know, legal routes, and we were able to take the the products out of customs just in time to start the process.

我们一直和一群出色的心脏病专家和儿科心脏病专家在秘鲁合作。

And we've been working with an amazing team of cardiologists cardiologists and pediatric cardiologists in Peru.

有些医生对这个产品特别满意，所以我们已经承诺，研究结束后这些设备可以留给他们使用。

Some of them are delighted with the product to the point that, of course, we have pledged that they will be able to keep them at the end of the of the of the whole study.

我们也有意将来在拉美地区正式推出这款产品。

We also want to be able to launch the product in Latin America at some point.

我们觉得，对当地的医生来说，尤其是偏远地区的医疗环境，这类解决方案价值巨大——有了这些结合人工智能的技术，即使身处远离大城市的偏远地带，也能更精准地分诊、做出更优的临床决策。

We see the big benefit for doctors over there to have these types of solutions, especially when when it comes to rural health care where you can have these technologies that allow you to be able to make a better triage and make make better better decisions, leveraged with AI, you know, whenever you are isolated in a in a place far from big cities and far from, you know, high level hospitals.

这很有道理。

That makes a lot of sense.

听你这么一说，我觉得秘鲁确实是开展二十年临床试验的绝佳地点。

And I think from everything I'm hearing, it seems like Peru is a perfect place to launch twenty year clinical trials.

这很合理。

That makes sense.

更让人惊讶的是，据我所知，你们只用了不到六百万美元的经费，就做到了这一步。

And what's even more impressive is that you managed to do all of this and get this far with, I think, less than $6,000,000 in funding, if I recall correctly.

这真的很了不起，尤其是还要开发硬件、开展临床试验。

That's very impressive, especially building hardware, doing clinical trials.

很多人筹到几千万美元，却还达不到你们现在的进展。

People raise tens of millions of dollars and still don't get as far as you have.

显然，你们的做法非常对路。

So clearly, you're doing something very correct.

也可能是硬件领域根本没什么资源。

That or there's no resources for hardware.

我觉得这两方面原因都有。

I I think that it is basically both.

我们一开始就说好了，搞这个项目肯定不容易，真的，要是别人听说我们打算——

Well, we said we said to each other you know, when we started this process, we said it's gonna be hard to raise, you know, like I mean, if we would say, hey.

我们在开发一个全新的大语言模型，

We're building a new LLM model.

就算最后失败了，第一轮融资也至少要拿到一亿美元。

Even if we fail, we're going to raise a 100,000,000 in in the first fundraise.

但这次情况不一样了。

In this case, things are different.

风险不同了，市场对硬科技项目的接受度也完全不一样了。

The stakes are different, and the appetite for hard hardware is completely different.

所以我们从一开始就有个明确的目标：

So we, we had a goal in our minds from the beginning.

必须极度精简。

We need to be very lean.

可以说，我们公司的运营方式简直抠到了极致，正因如此，我们才能用筹集到的这笔钱，把产品做出来，甚至完成生产。

I guess the the way you can describe, the company's operations is lean as hell, And, that allows us to be able to launch a product, you know, and and manufacture even to manufacture with the with the amount that we raised.

我们还得有一套系统的设计理念。

We also had to have a strategic way of of design.

这不只是要耐用、质量高。

It's not only designed for durability and designed for high quality.

还得控制生产成本。

It's also designed for lower COGS.

你懂的。

You know?

原材料成本得尽可能压低，这样才能把技术做出来，推向市场，又不至于把公司财务拖垮。

So cost of goods need to be what what you call our bit of materials needs to be as low as it can be so we can, manufacture the technology and leverage it in the market, without constraining our company financially.

从Keikku的第一个原型开始，一直到今天，这一直都是我们战略规划里非常关键的一环。

So that was also another part of our of our strategic development that was very much important for us to from the beginning of the first, you know, the first prototype of Keikku all the way to now.

这其实是第八个原型了。

This is actually the prototype number eight.

哇，真的吗。

Oh, wow.

我们之前做了好几个原型。

So we've had multiple prototypes.

第一个是方形的。

The first one was a square.

我曾经在某个活动上做主题演讲。

I I delivered a keynote somewhere.

我展示过一张照片。

I I showed a picture.

那就是个方形的听诊器，上面装了个USB-C电路板。

It was just, like, a square stethoscope with a USB c board.

样子难看得要命。

It looked terrible.

虽然丑得不行，但能用。

It looked horrible, but it worked.

这是第一个真正能运行的设备，帮我们一开始拉到了一点投资。

It was the first device that worked, and it allowed us to to raise a little bit of capital at the beginning.

这确实是个不错的起点。

It was a good stepping stone for sure.

正如你提到的，Keikku 最有潜力发挥作用的地方，是那些偏远地区，或者硬件资源、专业人员和优质医疗都比较匮乏的地方。

So I think as you mentioned already, one of the most meaningful air locations where Keikku could be useful is in more rural areas or in places where there's less accessibility to, you know, different hardware or specialists or just, you know, good high quality care.

我想知道，你们当初是怎么制定市场推广和上市策略的？

So I'm curious, how did you approach sort of your marketing or go to market strategy?

你们在荷兰设有办公室。

I mean, you have an office in Netherlands.

现在又在德克萨斯州休斯顿设立了办公室，还在秘鲁开展临床试验。

You now have an office in Houston, Texas doing clinical trial in Peru.

你们是怎么决定首先在哪些地方推出 Keikku 的？又怎么锁定目标医生群体来推广销售？

How did you decide where to first launch Keikku and how to sort of target specific type groups of physicians when you're trying to sell?

就像任何科技公司一样，我们得从一个能快速普及、迅速推广的地方开始。

I think just as as any technology company, we need to to start from a place where we can have fast adoption, fast and and in a in a very, accelerated way.

毫无疑问，美国是最合适的选择。

So, definitely, The United States is the place to be.

紧接其后，大概就是欧洲了，这主要关乎接受度和文化差异。

And, and right after that, probably Europe, it is it is a matter of just adoption and culture.

迟早我们得进入那些接受度更低、阻力更大的地方。

At some point, we have to go to other places that are a little bit less adopting and where we know we're gonna encounter more friction.

目前，AI领域正上演着一场非常有意思的竞争。

The thing is that there's a competition happening in the space right now of AI that is very interesting.

一方面，有很多公司推出各种专用AI软件平台；而我们则不一样，我们说：

You have on one side, you have all these different companies that are delivering, you know, software platforms with specific niched usages of AI, And then you have us that are saying, hey.

我们提供的是整套解决方案——一个硬件设备，搭配无限可能的软件功能。

We're gonna give you the whole thing with with one hardware device and and then unlimited software opportunities.

那我们怎么说服医生们选择我们的产品，而不是其他竞争对手，或者那些碎片化的方案呢？

And then there is so how do we convince, what you said, clinicians to use our offer versus any other competitor's offers or, you know, what we call them fragmental competitors.

是的。

But yeah.

那么，我们该怎么从这个阶段继续推进呢？

Well, how do we how do we go from that from that space of, okay.

我有你的信任，我有这份信誉。

I have this your credit I have the credibility.

我赢得了你的信赖，但接下来该怎么推进呢？

I have your trust, but how do you make that move?

我觉得这个问题真的很关键。

I think that that is a really interesting question.

我们相信，单靠硬件本身，并不足以让临床医生做出选择。

We we believe that the hardware value is not the only thing that will make a clinician move forward.

真正关键的是安全性和信任感。

It has to be safety and trust.

在医疗AI领域，大多数公司面临的评判标准没那么高，但我们不一样——我们持有FDA认证，而且不是一类认证。

It has it has to be the fact that we are being judged by higher stakes in the majority of AI companies in the space of health care because we hold an FDA certification, and it's not a class one.

是二类认证。

It's class two.

因此，作为二类医疗器械制造商，我们接受着ISO认证体系的严格审查。

So we are scrutinized by ISO certifications as a medical device manufacturer of class two medical devices.

这意味着我们在推出产品时必须保持极高的严谨态度。

This means that the level of seriousness that we have to take to to have to launch a product is extreme.

我们必须以专业的医疗设备制造商标准来运作。

We have to be professional medical device manufacturers.

当你购买我们的设备，或者订阅我们的平台，说：嘿，

And when you buy a device, like, from ours or when you subscribe in our platform and you say, hey.

我想用你们的记录助手，

I would like to use your scribe.

想用你们的工具、你们的诊断AI时，你就知道，我们所有这些都基于最严格的标准打造，确保安全与信任。

I would like to use your tools, your diagnostic AI, then you know that we have built all this based on the strictest measures possible to ensure safety and trust.

所以美国市场肯定是我们的首发市场，而且已经开始了。

So US will be definitely our first to market, and it is already.

我们现在正准备推出全新的平台。

Now we're about to launch our new platform.

很快你就能看到了。

You'll see it very soon.

这基本上就是我们起步的地方。

And that basically will be the place where we start.

我们想把整个流程都过一遍。

We wanna go a little bit through through all the process.

我们特别希望把服务拓展到美国的农村地区。

We would love to go into rural USA.

我们希望能帮助那些独自执业的医生，还有在公立机构或私立医院工作的医生。

We like to we would love to, you know, enhance doctors that are working also solo or in official federal organizations or in private hospitals.

这项技术是为所有人设计的。

Basically, the technology is for everyone.

正是考虑到这一点，我们才确定了合适的价格，并确保这项技术真正 accessible。

We that in mind has also, or having that that idea in mind also made us decide what is the the correct price point of the technology and how can we make sure that we create accessibility in terms of this technology.

在一切之前，我们首先希望成为一家让所有人都用得起的公司。

We wanna be an accessible company before anything else.

接下来自然的一步，就是回到欧洲，在这里也推广开来。

And then the next natural step would be to come home to Europe and also deploy it right here.

你知道的吧。

You know?

我们有很多需求要处理。

We have a lot of, requirement requires.

很多医生一直在给我们发邮件。

Many doctors are just sending us emails all the time.

嘿，各位。

Hey, guys.

这个设备什么时候能用上？

When is this device available?

这个平台什么时候能上线？

When is this platform available?

我很想用你们的Scriba。

I would love to use your scriba.

我亲眼见过它实际运行。

I've seen I've seen it in action.

我真的很想用一下。

I would love to use it.

有几位医生以前在美国工作，见过这个产品，后来搬到了欧洲。

We had a couple of doctors that were working in The US, that have seen the product, and they moved to Europe.

他们就来找我们说，嘿。

And they were like, hey.

这东西在这儿能用吗？

Is this available here?

我们回答说，还没上线，但快了。

We were like, not yet, but soon.

所以我觉得，我们干脆直接在欧洲推出，也很自然。

So I think that it is also natural, thing for us to launch it in Europe right away.

之后还有很多其他地方，机会非常多。

And then after that, there's a lot of other other places with loads of opportunity.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，机会真的非常多。

It it I mean, I think the opportunities are, are abundant.

我很好奇，你们这个平台已经在国际上有所部署了——比如在欧洲开发，同时在秘鲁也在做试点。

I'm I'm curious too when you're talking about a platform that's already been kinda deployed internationally in in the sense that you're building in Europe, you have trials going in Peru.

你们还在努力进入美国市场。

You're trying to deploy in The US.

你们得跟这么多不同的机构打交道，真是不容易。

I mean, there is so many different organizations you're interfacing with.

我有两个后续问题想问问。

And I guess there's there's two two follow-up questions to that.

你之前提到，这个产品最初是个简单的方块，后来才慢慢发展成现在这样。

One, you know, you mentioned that the product was a square, and then eventually, obviously, it's developed into what it is now.

我想知道，这个转变是不是来自用户的反馈？你们当时和用户是怎么交流的？

But I'm wondering if that came from user feedback that you you heard and what those conversations might have looked like with users.

第二个问题是，当你们在打造一个能适应欧洲、秘鲁这些不同国家的工具时，是怎么看待 Scribe 这套工具的？

And then the second part is, like, when you're talking about building a tool that scales to different countries like Europe and Peru, how do you look at then, you know, this tooling of scribe?

对吧？

Right?

那你得提供非常完善的多语言支持。

Then you have to do, like, pretty pretty robust language support.

这一层其实也有不少挑战。

I mean, there are difficulties with with that layer too.

所以两个问题，一是用户反馈是怎么影响产品的，有哪些重大产品决策是源于用户反馈的？

So so so the two questions are, one, like, user feedback, how has that shaped your product, and what are some big product decisions that have come from user feedback?

二是，从技术本身来看，当你在不同国家做开发时，这背后有什么根本性的变化？

And two, when you're thinking about, you know, the technology itself, how does that fundamentally change when you're working in different countries?

设备的外形并不是根据用户反馈设计的。

So the the shape of the device was not, done, via user feedback.

实际上，设备的外形是戴安娜的主意。

Actually, the shape of the device was, an idea from Diana.

她说，如果我们要做一个类似听诊器的设备，因为它本来就有听诊功能，那就该有个脖子一样的设计，让人能用手指轻松握持。

She was like, if we're gonna build a device that resembles or the the the stethoscope because one of its functions is to be a stethoscope, we should give it that neck, you know, that you can just you feel that you can just grab with your fingers, and and they can just fit in that neck.

对吧？

Right?

然后你就可以直接把它放在病人身上。

And then you can just, like, put it on the on the patient.

感觉特别自然。

Like, it feels like it's natural.

对吧？

Right?

另一边，我们要把它设计得特别未来感，让人一看就觉得这不只是个听诊器。

On the other side, we should make it so futuristic that whenever you see it, you don't necessarily believe that it is just a stethoscope.

你会觉得它是个别的东西，一个承载着人工智能力量的设备。

You believe that it is a something else, right, and a device that carries that power of AI.

所以我们才加入了人工智能，内置了LED灯，所有这些设计都是为了传达这种感觉。

And and that's why we we built it in with with AI and with LED lights inside and and the whole thing to be able to to deliver that, you know, that message.

最后，这些LED灯也肩负着传递信息的使命。

And then finally, the LEDs have the the also carry the responsibility of, you know, delivering a message.

我们从很多用户那里听到，他们特别反感用手机做记录的一个原因是，患者根本不知道什么时候在记录、什么时候没在记录。

So one thing that we heard from lots of users was that one of the things that they hate about scribing with phones is that patients are never aware of actually when the scribe is happening and when it's not happening.

患者总是会跟医生说，他们觉得这样有点不舒服。

And patients always deliver this message to doctors that they feel a little bit uncomfortable with it.

我能想象得到。

So I can imagine.

我记得当Breach推出他们的患者应用，让患者也能自己记录诊疗过程时的情况。

I mean, I remember when a breach launched launched their patient app so the patient could also scribe their own consultations.

这很可能是出于一种自我保护，也可能是回应患者的反馈。

And probably as a defense mechanism, probably because of patient, you know, feedback.

所以我们想，最好的办法就是让这个过程一目了然——医生一使用，患者立刻就能明白现在正在做记录；但同时又要让人觉得安心，知道这设备其实就是医生用来听心肺的工具，这样才合情合理。

So we we were like you know, then then the best idea for us will be to make this so clear that whenever a doctor is using it, they you meet they immediately the patient immediately realizes that there's scribing happening in real time and but then make it so safe that the patient knows also that that this is also the device that the doctor uses to listen to my heart and lungs so it makes sense.

对吧？

Right?

我们在美国做过一次试点，医生们都在用，而我很幸运，因为我本人也是医生。

So we had a pilot in The US where doctors were using it, and I was I was very privileged because I'm a I'm an MD myself as well.

我很幸运，在患者同意的情况下，我旁听了其中一场问诊，观察患者当时的反应。

I was very privileged to be able to, with the consent of a patient, step into one of the consultations just to listen and see how the patient reacted.

你知道吧。

You know?

医生就带着这个设备，直接放在桌上。

So the doctor just had this device, and they just put it on the desk.

然后他们就说，好了。

And they were like, okay.

这个设备呢，既能记录问诊内容，也是一台听诊器。

Well, this device, you know, is a device that annotates documents our consult, but also it's a stethoscope.

待会儿我会用它听你的肺部，但现在先帮您记一下笔记。

And I'm gonna be listening to your lungs in a bit, but for now, it's gonna take some notes.

患者听了之后，就说，好。

And then the doc the the patient is like, okay.

没问题。

Sounds good.

医生一打开设备，LED灯就亮了。

So the doctor turns it on, and then the LED lights go on.

那一刻，病人脱口而出：‘天哪。’

And at that point, the patient says, goddamn.

对我来说，这简直让我惊呆了。

So for me, that was like, wow.

病人是真的被震撼到了，不是随便说说。

Like, it was it was a big big wow from the patient.

他不是那种轻描淡写地‘哦’一下。

It was not like, hey.

他不是担心自己的安全，而是真的在说：‘哇。’

I'm I'm I'm afraid about my my safety, but more like, wow.

他觉得你们用的技术太厉害了。

Like, you guys are using, like, really amazing technology.

接着他问了一句：‘这设备通过FDA认证了吗？’

If this FDA and the next thing that he said was, is this cleared by the FDA?

然后医生就说，百分之百。

And then the doctor's like, 100%.

就是这样。

That's it.

你懂的。

You know?

正是这些因素让我们在设计、功能这些方面做了决定，你知道的。

So these are the things that that made us decide on design, function, you know, all those other things.

另外还有一个问题，就是你们有没有收到临床医生的反馈？

And if we've had any the other question was if you had any feedback from from clinicians?

有。

Yeah.

比如医生们本人有没有给出什么意见？

Like, any any feedback from the physicians themselves.

百分之百。

100%.

我们收到了大量反馈，并且已经把很多建议融入到了产品里。

We've we've got a we've got a lot of feedback, and we've implemented loads of the feedback into the product.

有一位医生提到，他希望这个设备能完全不用手机或电脑就能操作。

So, one of the one of the things that one, doctor said was that, he was wondering if we could use this device without having to in in to use the phone or a desktop at all.

这个想法真的让我特别有共鸣。

So that that really resonated with me a lot.

我们做的是音频相关的产品，所以很快就会推出语音功能。

And we are in a business of audio, so there's something that's gonna be happening with voice soon.

这个功能一定会很出色。

And that is gonna be pretty cool.

没错，我们确实从医生那里收到了很多反馈。

Then so, yes, we're, like, getting a lot of information from doctors.

目前我们只支持西班牙语、英语和荷兰语。

Now currently, we have it in available in Spanish, English, and Dutch only.

其他语言还没上线，不过我们每周都能推出多种新语言。

We we haven't launched any other languages yet, although we can launch multiple languages every week.

但我们想先确保这个设备在三种语言中都能良好运行。

But we we wanted to make sure that this device works well for those three languages first.

所以我们有多个测试用户每天用它来做记录和听诊，覆盖这三种语言。

So we have multiple beta users that are using it, for scribing and for, auscultation every day in the three languages.

到目前为止，我们几乎没有收到任何负面反馈。

So far, we haven't really gotten any bad feedback from it.

我们有一些超级用户，他们几乎在平台上每一次互动都会使用它，我特别喜欢看到他们这样。

We we have some super users that are incredibly our users that I love to see, you know, in the platform using it for absolutely every interaction.

我觉得Keikku一整天都陪着他们，尤其是在医院里，这一点我特别欣赏。

I think that the Keikku is on the whole day when they're in a hospital so that I I love that.

你知道吗？

You know?

我就是担心电池续航，但真的很喜欢这个设备。

I'm just worried about the battery, but I love it.

所以我们才把它设计成这样。

So, yeah, we we designed it like this.

我们特意设计成支持无线充电。

One thing that we did design on purpose was to make it be charged wirelessly.

你知道的，它根本没有USB-C接口。

As you know, it doesn't have any any any USB C plug.

你只需要把它放在Qi充电器上，就能无线充电了。

You have to you have to just put it on top of a Qi charger, and it charges wirelessly.

这个设计是故意的，因为我们希望设备看起来更安全，避免各种接口积攒细菌，成为感染源。

That was an that was an intentional decision because we wanted to have a device that feels very safe, also that feels that you are not gonna be accumulating any microbes in different ports and then to become a vector of infection.

我们也想让医生们有这种安心感。

So we wanted to make sure the doctors had also that feeling of security.

它达到了IP44级防水防尘标准，而且因为没有接口，灰尘也不会往里钻。

It is p 44 in in water safety, and also dust doesn't accumulate inside because of that.

所以这么做完全合理。

So it it actually makes complete sense.

你明白吧？

You know?

它放在无线充电器上就能充电，而且充电时你照样能写字，真的很酷。

It it charges on its on its wireless charger when you you can scribe even with it on its charger, so it's actually pretty pretty cool.

把它放上去的时候，指示灯会亮得特别柔和。

And then when you put it on, it the lights turn on really nice.

有点未来感。

It's a little bit futuristic.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

我们马上就要结束了，对那些看不到视频的听众来说，这个设备其实就是听诊器的钟形或膜形部分。

As we wrap up in just a couple of minutes, to our listeners who can't see the video, the device is essentially, like, the bell or diaphragm of a stethoscope.

它没有连接的导管。

There's no tube coming out of it.

也没有耳机之类的东西。

There's no sort of headphones.

就是一个圆环状的装置，可以直接贴在病人的胸口上。

It's just sort of that circle apart that you can place directly on a patient's chest.

而且正如乔纳森提到的，这个设备非常容易消毒。

And to Jonathan's point, it's very easy to sanitize.

甚至可能比传统听诊器还更容易清洁。

It's probably easier than a real stethoscope even.

你只要用布一擦，就能彻底清洁干净。

You can just wipe it down completely if you really want to.

如果你提到它防水，那用肥皂水清洗也完全没问题。

If you mentioned it's waterproof, you can probably wash it with soap and water as well if you want to.

但我很好奇。

But I'm curious.

你说它能记录病人的的心音和呼吸音，但你使用的时候能实时听到吗？

So you said it records the patient's sort of heart sounds, lung sounds, but can you actually hear it live when you're using it as well?

它是通过耳机播放，还是内置了扬声器，让你能实时听到声音？

Does it connect to headphones, or does it sort of have a speaker built in so you can hear it live as well?

你得戴上耳机才行。

You have to put on earphones.

这是因为麦克风和扬声器常见的反馈回路造成的。

That is because of the typical loop in microphone speaker integrations.

你明白吗？

You know?

你有没有去过演唱会？有时候你对着麦克风说话，就会听到那种刺耳的啸叫声。其实就是麦克风接收了扬声器发出的声音，再传回扬声器，循环放大，就形成了这种反馈。

I I don't know if you've ever been to a concert, but sometimes you speak at a microphone and then you sound like this this very typical so that loop is basically when a microphones when a microphone gets polluted by the sound of a speaker, and then it creates that loop in which the microphone thinks the sound of the speaker, then it deploys it on the speaker, then it faces from the speaker and it plays on the speaker, and it creates a loop.

如果扬声器离麦克风太近，就会出现这种情况。

So that is what would happen if you have a speaker that is so close to a microphone.

Keikku不能这样用，但你可以用蓝牙音箱，也可以用耳机。

So you cannot do that with the Keikku, but what you can do with the Keikku is use Bluetooth speakers and also use earphones.

用耳机是最好的选择，因为它能隔绝周围环境的噪音。

Earphones are the best thing to do to use because it isolates the noise around your head.

它就像听诊器的耳塞一样贴在耳朵里，能让你清晰听到心脏低频声音——那些频率太低，普通耳机根本还原不了。

They are just like stethoscope earplugs inside of your ears, give you that sensation of the depth of the low frequencies of the heart that are so low that some some headphones or some normal ear earphones won't be able to deliver.

最好用带主动降噪功能的耳机，这样能更好地屏蔽周围杂音。

Best to use earphones with active noise cancellation to be able to cancel the noise around your head.

如果周围有人说话或者有背景噪音，你也可以随时把它消除掉。

And if people are are speaking around you or there's some background noise, you can always cancel it.

Keikku自带降噪算法。

The Keikku has its own noise suppression algorithm.

但如果你的耳机没有降噪功能，还是能听到噪音，因为耳机本身不具备降噪能力。

But if you don't have noise suppression on your earphones, then you will still hear it because your earphones are not noise suppressed.

所以整个系统必须配套使用。

So the system has to be complete.

因此我们建议，一定要用带主动降噪功能的耳机。

So we are saying always use earphones that have active noise cancellation.

音质相当不错。

The quality of the sound is pretty good.

大概能放大40倍左右。

It's basically around 40 x amplification.

它还具备降噪功能。

It has noise suppression.

而且，确实用起来特别自然。

And, yeah, it feels very natural.

你懂的。

You know?

感觉特别像医疗设备，这正是我们想要的。

It feels it feels very medical, and that's what we wanted.

我们希望营造一种感觉：你就像在用一个更强大、无线版的普通听诊器。

We wanted to to create this sensation that you're basically using a typical stethoscope with a little bit more power but wirelessly.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们看到很多优势，尤其是在儿科领域。

So we see a lot of benefits, especially in the pediatric space.

很多儿科医生都对它特别感兴趣。

A lot of pediatricians are super excited about it.

还有一些护士在使用，直接把它放在保温箱里。

Also, we have some nurses in using it and just they leave it inside of the of the incubators.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

对吧？

Right?

说到这种技术的应用，现在越来越多的医生都在用它来做诊断。

And in the case of of describing technology, we're seeing loads of doctors using it nowadays for for describing.

他们觉得它既安全又便携。

They find it so safe and so portable.

所以它能从多个角度帮上忙。

So it's one of those things that it just gives you all these different angles.

你可以随时问，这个部件是做什么的？

So you can always ask, you know, what is this part?

那个部件又是干什么的？

What is that part?

实际上，这个设备在制造时就完全保证了品质。

In in reality, the device has has been built with all the quality.

我们希望越来越多的医生能采用这项技术。

We are hoping that more and more physicians will adopt.

而且，确实，我们对即将到来的机遇感到非常兴奋。

And, yeah, we're really excited about the opportunities that are coming right ahead.

谢谢，约翰纳坦。

Thanks, Jhonatan.

这真的很有意思。

And it was really interesting.

我觉得这开辟了听诊和诊断方式的新领域。

I think it's a it's a new frontier for how we listen and auscultate.

我之前根本没想过新生儿重症监护室的应用场景。

And I think the NICU use case was what I hadn't really thought about at all.

比如让婴儿在保温箱里睡觉的同时，还能持续监测声音——这恰恰是NICU护士的重要职责之一，他们得不断用听诊器检查，确认各项体征正常。如果能实现这种持续监测，我觉得这真是一个非常了不起的洞察。

Like, to sleep and get an incubator to be able to actively monitor sounds is I mean, that's one of the big roles of a of a NICU nurse is to continue to check with their little stethoscopes and make sure that, you know, things are things sound so to have that in a as a as a continuous measure, I think, is really, really interesting insight.

今天我们聊了很多，非常感谢你分享你的经历、你正在打造的产品，还有你为此付出的全部努力。

You know, we've talked a lot about a lot today, and really, really appreciate learning about your journey, learning about, what you're building, and and all the the work you put into it.

快结束了，你还有什么想分享的吗？

As we wrap up, is there anything else that you wanted to wanted to share?

我知道你提到还有很多未来计划，可惜现在还不能透露，但我真的很想给你这个机会，看看有没有我们还没问到、但你特别想谈的事情。

I know you you mentioned there's a lot on the horizon that, unfortunately, we can't share just yet, but, would would love to also just give you the floor and and and see if there's anything else that we haven't addressed that that you're particularly passionate about.

我其实对很多方面都很有热情。

Well, I'm passionate about, multiple things.

我对人工智能在医院里的整个应用前景特别兴奋。

I am really excited about the whole, opportunity of AI in the hospital.

我觉得我们现在才刚刚开始触及皮毛。

I think that we have just, we're just scratching the surface currently.

我们太满足于现有的解决方案了，只想着慢慢优化，却没怎么去探索更有创新性的可能，尤其是在诊断方面。

We are we're getting very content, I think, with with the solutions that are there, and we're trying to only continue to tweak them, but we're not really looking into more innovative opportunities, especially on the diagnostic side.

所以我想对创业者们说，千万别忽略了诊断这个领域。

So I would say that one of the things that I want to say to to tell founders is to please don't forget diagnostics.

还有，别忘了诊断和病历记录是紧密相连的。

Also, don't forget that diagnostics merge with documentation.

诊断和大语言模型是密不可分的。

Diagnostics merge with LLMs.

如果脱离了诊断和诊疗方案的背景，再厉害的文书生成或生成式AI工具也很难真正发挥作用。

They they they cannot be a very an an amazing software solution that in that embodies scribing and generative AI research search AIs without the context of diagnosis and diagnostic solutions.

所以千万别忽略这一点，不然每家公司都在做同样的事，最终我们永远无法充分挖掘问诊的价值。

So don't forget about that because, otherwise, we're gonna be all doing the same thing, every single company, you know, and we are not gonna be able to squeeze the value of a consultation ever.

一次问诊的价值可以分成两部分。

The value of a consultation is divided in two.

第一，来自患者口头表达的信息。

One, what you obtain verbally from your patient.

第二，来自患者生理指标的客观数据。

Two, what you obtain physiologically from your patient.

这一点每个临床医生都心知肚明。

And that is something that every clinician knows.

所以我特别想向医疗界再强调一遍。

So I just wanna emphasize it, you know, to the clinical community.

这确实很有道理。

That that makes a lot of sense.

谢谢你分享这些。

Thank you for sharing.

乔纳森，今天能请到你真是太好了。

Well, Jonathan, was really great having you.

能了解你的经历，还有像阿尔文说的，你正在打造的东西和你付出的努力，我感到非常荣幸。

It's been an honor learning about your journey and, as Arvin said, sort of the what you're building and the work you put into it.

我们非常期待继续关注Lapsi Health的发展，关注Keikku在全球范围内获得更多关注和应用，也期待看到你接下来会带来什么。

So we're very excited to continue watching Lapsi Health grow, watching Keikku gain more prominence and usage around the world, and excited to see what comes next from you.

谢谢你们。

Thank you, guys.