凯尔·布什令人震惊的悲剧性死亡，加上英国刺杀事件，以及摩根大通女性高管反诉，嘉宾：马克·艾格拉什和乔娜·斯皮尔伯 | 第1323期

这让我们把关注点转向了呼吸系统问题。

This shifts our focus respiratory issue.

他发烧、呼吸困难、咳血，目前高度怀疑是重症肺炎，年轻人中有些肺炎菌株会导致病情迅速恶化。

So he's fever, short of breath, coughing up blood, highly suspicious for severe pneumonia at this point, and there are a couple of strains of pneumonia in young people that can cause a rapid decline.

我们最初听说他有鼻窦症状时，他可能只是想说他得了上呼吸道感染。

So so when we heard originally that he had sinus symptoms, he may have meant that I just have an upper respiratory infection.

我有上呼吸道的症状。

I've got upper respiratory symptoms.

这描绘出一个患有重症肺炎的年轻男子的形象。

This paints the picture of a young man that has severe pneumonia.

像MRSA肺炎这样的情况会导致呼吸道出血，你可能会因为自己咳出的血迅速窒息。

Things like MRSA pneumonia can cause bleeding in the airway, and you can actually suffocate from that blood that you've produced and that bleeding in your airway very quickly.

所以我认为，这让我们从原本可能的脑部问题，转向了呼吸系统问题。

So I think this shifts shifts the thought that this may have been a a a cerebral issue to a respiratory issue.

拉希塔医生，您从这些描述中听出了什么特别关键的点？

Doctor Lahita, what what did you hear in there that that jumped out at you?

我听到肺部出血、咳血，这我们都知道和肺炎有关。

I heard I heard the bleeding from the lung, the coughing up blood, which we we know is associated with pneumonia.

我现在确实看到很多病人有多个感染灶，也就是多灶性肺炎，病情非常严重，还会引发败血症，这跟年龄有关。

And I do know that right now I'm seeing a lot of patients with what are called multifocal areas of infection, multifocal pneumonias, very severe pneumonias, causing sepsis depending on your age.

他才41岁，身体还能扛得住。

Now he's only 41, so he can handle that.

但我也有七十多、八十岁的病人，因为感染性休克住进医院，这种状况对七八十岁的人来说基本是致命的。

But I have patients who are in their seventies and eighties who are in the hospital in shock from septic shock, which would definitely kill a 70 or 80 year old.

但一个41岁的人出现这种情况，确实不太寻常。

But a 41 year old, this is a little unusual.

这肯定得是相当严重的感染。

It has to be a pretty severe infection.

还有一件事让我想到肺栓塞的可能性。

The other thing that goes back to what I'm thinking is the pulmonary embolus.

我见过太多这样的病例了，医生您肯定也清楚。

I have seen so many people, I'm sure Doctor.

佩里特也会同意，那些死于急性肺栓塞的人，就是一大块血栓堵住了肺部。

Perritt will agree, who die from acute pulmonary emboli, and that is a big clot that goes to the lung.

如果这些小血栓在大块血栓之前先跑到肺里，就会咳出大量鲜血。

And if these little clots go to the lung before the big one, they cough up a lot of blood.

第三种情况是充血性心力衰竭。

And the third thing is congestive heart failure.

充血性心力衰竭伴肺水肿的时候，也会咳血，肺里积了太多液体。

One can cough up blood with congestive heart failure and pulmonary or lung edema, fluid in the lungs, lots of fluid.

而这种咳血现象，

And the hemoptysis

是什么导致了肺栓塞？

What would cause the PE?

我以前在急诊室值班的时候就记得这个。

I remember that from my ER watching days.

那时候一听说是肺栓塞，大家都心里发毛，连我们自己都马上意识到：天啊，又是肺栓塞。

They would dread the you know, and and even we would come to know, oh god, it's a PE.

那是什么导致的呢？

What what would cause that?

嗯，凯尔的工作性质呢

Well, with with Kyle's job

我们先让拉希塔说，然后轮到你，佩里特。

We'll do Lahita, then we'll go to you, Perritt.

肺栓塞通常来自我们所说的高凝状态。

Well, a PE would come from we call that procoagulant.

长时间坐着，腿上可能形成深静脉血栓。

You can have a deep vein clot in your legs from sitting too long.

也可能是因为血液本身有问题，叫高凝状态，意思是血液容易过早凝结。

You can have it from having a disorder of your blood, which is called procoagulation, meaning your blood tends to clot prematurely.

在医院里，这种情况很常见。

We see a lot of that in a in the hospital.

所以这始终是一个可能性。

And so that is always a possibility.

肺栓塞会导致很多突然死亡。

Pulmonary emboli cause a lot of sudden deaths.

得肺栓塞不一定要年纪大。

You don't have to be old to get a PE.

青少年也可能出现肺栓塞。

You can see PEs in teens.

二十出头的人会得，四十岁的人更不用说了。

You can see it in early 20s and certainly in a 40 year old.

天哪，肺栓塞之前不会有明显征兆吧，医生？

Oh my gosh, but there wouldn't be like advanced notice of a PE, would there, Doctor.

佩里特？

Perritt?

我们刚才在讨论呼吸系统的问题，按你刚才说的，也许他根本不是鼻窦炎，而是肺炎，只是误以为是鼻窦炎，这跟肺栓塞有关系吗？

Like, we're going with respiratory and following what you just said, maybe it wasn't a sinus infection, maybe it was something like a pneumonia that he wrongly thought was a sinus infection, would that relate to PE?

有可能。

It can.

只要一感染，身体就会进入炎症状态。

Any anytime you get an infection, it creates an inflammatory state in in your body.

这种状态会促进血液凝固。

And so that's a pro coagulant.

所以，任何感染加上凯尔久坐不动，就可能出问题。

So, any type of infection, and then, Kyle, sits down.

他是个赛车手。

He's a he's a race car driver.

长时间保持坐姿，容易导致血栓形成。

The sitting position for prolonged periods of time can allow you to develop clots.

他可能先有感染，引发全身炎症，又在模拟器里坐了太久，腿上长了血栓，脱落之后突然堵住了肺动脉。

So it could be that he had some infection, and then because of that inflammation in his system and sitting down in a simulator for a long period of time had developed a clot in his leg and broke loose and suddenly caused an embolism to the lung.

没有影像检查，比如CT，真的很难下定论。

So so it's really hard to say without having imaging, a CT scan.

但如果他来我急诊室，我一定会给他做胸部CT，同时排查肺炎和肺栓塞，找出真正的原因。

But if he came into my ER, he he'd be getting a a CT scan of his chest looking for both pneumonia, both PE to try to identify the cause.

听到 callers 说他醒着，你感到意外吗？

Are you surprised to hear the caller say he's awake?

如果你听完全部内容，会发现他提了三次。

Apparently, if you listen to the whole thing, he says it three times.

他醒着。

He is awake.

他醒着。

He's awake.

他醒着。

He's awake.

我们听到了他说醒着的部分，但他当时躺在地上。

We heard the part where he said he's awake, but he's on the floor.

所以他当时是清醒的，而且有症状。

So he was conscious and having symptoms.

我不确定，就是觉得有点沮丧，说不上来为什么。

And I don't know, feels like, I don't know, it's just my frustration.

本该能救回来的。

Should have been savable.

本该能救回来的。

Should have been savable.

如果是肺栓塞造成的，那不该有救吗？

If a PE was the problem, would that not be savable?

你明白我的意思吧？

You know what mean?

从模拟器出现状况，到他被送到急诊室这段时间里，到底会是什么原因导致他死亡的呢，医生？

What could it have been that would have killed him from the time of the simulator to the time he presumably was taken to the ER on our list of suspects, Doctor.

佩里特？

Perritt?

是的。

Yeah.

所以

So

大多数肺栓塞患者，41岁就因肺栓塞去世的情况很少见。

most PEs, it's rare to die at 41 of of a a QPE.

以现在的治疗手段，我们可以给你用抗凝药。

The treatment that we have today, we can give you blood thinners.

我们也可以直接进去把血栓取出来。

We can go in there and grab that clot.

我们可以做取栓手术，把你送到手术台，把血栓清除掉。

We can do an embolectomy, get get you over there and remove the clot.

但如果你的气道被液体、血液填满，就算给你上呼吸机也没用，这可能是由肺炎或感染引起的，因为你的肺已经没法工作了。

However, if you filled up your your airway with fluid, blood, and and you can't even if we put you on a ventilator, and this is due to a pneumonia or an infection, and we can't you because your lungs aren't functioning.

肺里全是感染。

They're full of infection.

肺里全是液体。

They're full of fluid.

肺里全是血。

They're full of blood.

这种情况可能导致死亡，除非使用ECMO——一种绕过肺部、直接为血液供氧的手段。

That can cause death unless you get on ECMO, which is a way to bypass the lungs and still oxygenate your blood.

这同样可能致命。

That could cause cause death.

拉希塔医生，在这种情况下，这属于常规做法吗？

Doctor Lahita, would it be a standard practice in a case like this?

如果他来就诊，说觉得自己是鼻窦感染，鼻子堵得慌，脸上还疼，你会不会给他做胸部X光？我知道，如果怀疑是肺炎，这确实是标准流程。

Do you think if he comes in and says, I think I have a sinus infection, you know, I'm all stuffed up, I'm in pain in my face, to do a lung x-ray, which is I know that that would be the standard if you suspected pneumonia.

没错，确实如此。

That's correct, yes.

如果是肺炎，医生会仔细听肺部，还会做全面的心脏检查。

Pneumonia, you'd listen to the lungs carefully, You would do a complete cardiac exam.

要全面了解病情才行。

You would really get the picture.

我不清楚他是否经常有医生为他做检查。

And I don't know if he had a physician that was frequently examining him.

像他这种水平的运动员，通常都会得到非常严密的医疗监护。

Most athletes of his caliber are followed medically fairly assiduously.

就在他去世前十一天，有位医生给他打了一针，当时就知道他身体不对劲。

Well, there was that one doctor eleven days before he died who gave him a shot of something and knew he was ill.

他还专门提起过这件事。

He was talking about it.

我听过他在车里的录音。

I've heard the audio of him in the car.

所以显然，他当时是接受过医疗处理的。

So clearly there was medical care involved in some way.

是的。

Yeah.

不过我现在记不清了，梅根，他们有没有提到他发烧了？

Now I don't remember, Megyn, did they say he had a fever?

那个呕吐的人——

The guy that vomited-

他们说他烧得厉害。

They said he's very hot.

他快晕过去了。

He's going to pass out.

呼吸困难，还咳血，躺在地上醒着，浑身滚烫。

Shortness of breath, blood, he's coughing up blood and is awake on the floor, very hot.

这明显是感染的迹象，医生。

That's suggestive of an infection as Doctor.

佩里特和我认为，这说明他可能得了肺炎，而且是严重的肺炎，因为肺栓塞这种大血栓，一开始通常不会引起高烧。

Perritt and I believe that suggests that he could have had pneumonia, severe pneumonia, because you don't, with a blood clot, that's a significant blood clot, a pulmonary embolus, you don't usually have a high fever at the outset.

真正造成这些症状的，是肺炎和感染本身。

I mean, it takes the pneumonia, the infection that's causing all of this to really cause problems.

很可能几天前给他打针的医生，给他注射了一种抗生素，但那种药对他这情况没用。

And it's likely that the doctor, a couple days earlier that gave him the shot, gave him a shot of an antibiotic, which doesn't cover it.

如果他病得这么重，早就该住院接受静脉抗生素治疗了，因为他很可能已经败血症了。

I mean, if he's that severely ill, he should have been in the hospital on IV therapy, IV antibiotic therapy, because he probably was septic.

败血症加上高烧、呼吸急促，如果不全力抢救，随时可能丧命。

And sepsis with a high fever, puffing up blood, that's imminent death unless treated aggressively.

这太可怕了。

That's awful.

我不清楚他做模拟训练的那家机构离最近的急诊医院有多远，也不了解他们当时能提供多高的创伤救治水平。

I don't know any of the details of how far away the center where he was doing the simulator was from an emergency care hospital or what the level of trauma care they were able to give was.

这些细节以后都会水落石出。

All those details will come out.

你刚才说，41岁的人必须做吗？

And did you say it's mandatory for a 41 year old?

医院对41岁的人做尸检，是硬性规定，还是只是建议？

Was that just loosely mandatory or actually mandatory for hospitals to give an autopsy to a 41 year old?

是强制的。

Mandatory.

所以

So

会做尸检吗？

there will be an autopsy?

会的。

Yes.

我的意思是，这个我不太清楚，医生。

I mean, don't know, Doctor.

佩里特，我知道在纽约大都会区，年轻人去世的话，法律规定必须做尸检。

Perritt, is it I in know in the New York Metropolitan Area, it's mandated in a young person who dies.

在德克萨斯州，要看有没有明确的死因。

In Texas, it's it depends on, if you have an explainable cause of death.

如果医生能确定死因，而且没有他杀嫌疑，那就不用做。

So if if the doctors were comfortable, they knew what caused this, there was no foul play.

但前提是死因必须能说清楚。

It is not mandatory, but, you have to have a explainable cause of death.

我觉得，像他妻子这样年轻的配偶，既然有孩子，肯定希望做尸检。

I feel like any spouse, a young woman like his wife is, would want one because they have kids.

你想排除一下，这会不会是遗传问题，需要为下一代做检测，我们也得提高警惕。

You wanna rule out, was this something genetic that we need to be testing for in the next gen, and so we need to be on alert for it.

我明白她现在可能脑子有点乱，但只要配偶突然因病离世，谁都会担心孩子，总想把各种可能性都查清楚。

I'm sure she's not thinking entirely straight, but I think whenever your spouse would die suddenly of a medical thing, you'd be worried about your children too, just ruling things out.

这真是个巨大的悲剧。

It's such an awful tragedy.

各位太感谢了，这么短的时间赶来帮忙，还分享这么专业的见解，给我们和观众都帮了大忙。

Guys, thanks so much for pinch hitting on short notice and offering your expertise to us and our viewers.

当然应该的。

Absolutely.

谢谢你们。

Thank you.

真的非常感谢。

Really appreciate it.

天哪。

Wow.

为他们祈祷吧。

Say a prayer.

为这个悲痛的家庭祈祷吧。

Say a prayer for that grieving family.

突如其来的死亡真是太残酷了。

It's so sudden death is just so awful.

实在太残酷了。

It's so awful.

你知道吗，我们都希望要是自己走了，也能突然就走，对吧？

You know, it's like for the person who goes, we all kind of hope we'll go suddenly, right?

其实不是这样的。

It's like, no.

我的意思是，对我们这些还活着的人来说，这种事不会发生在我们身上。

I mean, for the rest of the people out there, that's not gonna happen to any of us listening, dying.

我们还会继续活着。

We're just gonna stick around.

但对于家人来说，这实在太痛了。

But for the family, it's just so painful.

连一句告别都来不及说。

There's no chance to say goodbye.

根本没时间去接受亲人可能离开的现实。

There's no chance to acclimate yourself to the possibility of one going.

如果有孩子在，母亲瞬间就成了单亲妈妈，要独自面对如此剧烈的悲痛。

And when there's children involved, just so much acute pain for the mother to deal with their grief, being a single mom in a minute.

你看看这个人。

You know, look at this guy.

他身材高大，是位职业运动员，性格强悍，说话时气势逼人，从不退让。

He's like a strong, tall, professional athlete, fierce, you know, the way he would battle rhetorically and take no, you know what.

她一定习惯了被他保护着。

Like, I'm sure she's used to being protected by him.

他肯定是家里那个最强势的人。

I'm sure he was the alpha figure in the family.

现在他走了，她需要大量的支持。

And now he's gone and she's gonna need a lot of support.

我敢打赌，她一定会得到这些支持。

And I'll bet you anything, she's gonna get it.

NASCAR这个大家庭非常团结，我敢肯定粉丝们都在想，自己能做点什么。

The NASCAR family's very close, and I'm sure the fans are just wondering what they can do.

也许我们可以发起一个募捐，帮帮他们。

Maybe we'll start a GoFundMe, or something to help.

我肯定他们不缺钱，但总得想办法让她和孩子们感受到我们的心意。

I'm sure they weren't hurting for money, but there's gotta be some way of sending her and the kids our love.

首先，我们应该为他们祈祷。

It should start with prayer.

谢谢大家收听这段内容。

Thank you all, for tuning in and listening to that.

接下来我们转到其他新闻，因为关于凯莉法庭的节目已经安排好了，我们刚拿到一段独家视频，内容跟昨天提到的那个苏格兰青年有关——他在英格兰被一名男子用刀刺死，而那名男子声称，因为宗教原因，他被允许携带这把极其可怕的刀具，事实也的确如此，他用这把刀刺死了这名18岁的年轻人。

We're gonna move on to other news because, we do have a whole show lined up for you on Kelly's Court, and we have just gotten ourselves a hold of some exclusive video in connection with the young Scottish man we told you about yesterday who was stabbed to death by a man in England who said he was allowed to carry this amazing, terrifying knife, thanks to his religion, and did in fact stab this 18 year old young man with it.

警察来了。

The cops came.

行凶者却说自己才是受害者。

The stabber claimed that he was the victim.

他指控受害者对他喊了什么种族歧视的话，但根本没有任何证据。

He accused the victim of shouting some sort of racial epithet at him, of which there is zero proof.

当那个年轻人奄奄一息时，警察还告诉他：‘你没被刺中’。

And as this young man lay dying, the police told him he wasn't, that he hadn't been stabbed.

他们什么都不知道。

They didn't know anything.

可他的袭击者有没有喊出来：‘不，他确实被刺了’？

And did his assailant cry out, no, he has been stabbed.

我很抱歉。

I'm sorry.

他说这是意外，或者自卫——这正是他现在在英国法庭上所声称的。

It was an accident, or it was self defense, which is what he's now claiming as that case is on trial this minute in The UK.

没有，他没有。

No, he didn't.

他一直闭口不言。

He kept his mouth shut.

关于这名被告，几乎没有任何照片证据。

There's been almost no photographic evidence of the alleged perpetrator here, the defendant.

不知怎么的，他在网上的一切都被清理得干干净净。

Somehow he's all been scrubbed from the Internet.

我们手头只拿到一段视频，清楚地拍到他手里握着两把刀。

Well, we've gotten our hands exclusively on a video that shows him up close and personal with not one, but two knives.

其中一把看起来像把长剑。

One of which appears to be a sword.

我是说，一把很长的剑，类似日本的太刀。

I mean, a long sword, like an epi.

接下来我们就给你们播放这段视频。

And we're gonna show it to you next.

咱们来聊聊一个让人不舒服的现实。

Let's talk about an uncomfortable reality.

我们不在了之后，家人在经济上会面临什么？

What happens financially to our loved ones once we are no longer here?

我们总是因为各种原因回避思考这个问题，但真正能为家人做的，就是确保他们不会背负房贷、学费、医疗费这些沉重的经济压力。

We put off thinking about it for obvious reasons, but the best thing we can do for our family is to ensure that they are not left with a financial burden of mortgage, tuition, medical bills, all of it.

幸运的是，现在为家人做财务保障比过去简单多了。

Fortunately, taking steps to financially protect your family is easier nowadays than it used to be.

这时候，Ethos 就派上用场了。

And that's where Ethos comes in.

Ethos 让购买人寿保险变得又快又简单，全程在线完成。

Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy and 100% online.

几秒钟就能获得报价，几分钟内完成申请，甚至当天就能生效。

You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and even get same day coverage.

不需要体检，你只需要回答几个简单的健康问题，搞定，一切就都解决了。

There's no medical exam, and all you need to do is just answer a few simple health questions, and boom, Bob's your uncle.

最高可获得三百万元的保障。

You can get up to $3,000,000 in coverage.

通过他们合作的可靠保险公司，你还能拿到最低费率，有些保单每月只需三十元。

You get the lowest rate from their network of trusted carriers with some policies as low as $30 a month.

难怪Ethos在Trustpilot上获得了4.8分的高分，评价超过四千条。

It's no wonder why Ethos has 4.8 out of five stars on Trustpilot with over 4,000 reviews.

花十分钟，今天就通过Ethos搞定人寿保险。

Take ten minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos.

立即前往ethos.com/mk获取免费报价。

Get your free quote at ethos.com/mk.

记得去ethos.com/mk。

That's ethos.com/mk.

申请时间可能有所不同。

Application times may vary.

费率也可能有所变化。

Rates may vary too.

现在我们转到凯莉的案子。

We are jumping into Kelly's court now.

今天要处理的事情可真不少。

There's a lot on the docket today.

我们来聊聊默多克的最新动态。

We're gonna cover, the latest in Murdoch.

在那起摩根大通的案件里，最近出现了重大进展——那名男子指控洛娜·哈吉迪尼对他性骚扰，甚至强迫他遭受性侵。

There's been a massive update in that JP Morgan case where that guy is accusing Lorna Hajdini of sexually harassing and even forcing essentially sexual assault on him.

这背后有太多细节要跟你们说。

Lots to tell you there.

我们还会谈到路易吉·曼吉奥内，以及英国的亨利·诺瓦克，接下来会放一段我们和专家小组讨论的视频。

We've got, Luigi Mangione, and we're gonna get into Henry Nowak in The UK in our video that we wanna show you with our panel.

为大家解析最新热门法律新闻的是马克·艾格拉什和乔娜·斯皮尔博。

Here to break down the hottest legal stories are Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor.

他们是全新节目《Positively Legal》的主持人，你可以在MK真实罪案频道的任何播客平台，或者YouTube上的youtube.com/@the@signmk True Crime上收听观看。

They are hosts of the brand new show, Positively Legal, which you can find on the MK True Crime channel, wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube at youtube.com/@the@signmk True Crime.

马克，乔娜，欢迎回来。

Mark, Jonna, welcome back.

离整点没剩多少时间了，我想先聊个网上最离谱的新闻。

We have a short time here before, the end of the hour, and I just wanna kick it off with the most bizarre story on the Internet.

这事儿不算法律问题，但你可能会有想法。

It's not legal, but you might have thoughts.

就是那个戴面具的男人，据称是戴面具的人。

It's this masked guy, alleged masked guy.

我知道你们都看过这个视频。

I know you've seen it.

他上了福克斯新闻，叫罗伯特·哈弗德。

He went on Fox News and his name is Robert Harvard.

他以前在中央司令部工作，就是中东那边的。

He is of formerly of CENTCOM, Central Command in The Middle East.

他是个军人。

He's a military guy.

他当时是在我以前的节目《美国新闻室》上，采访了我的老搭档比尔·哈默和达娜·佩里特。

And he was speaking to my old pals, Bill Hammer and Dana Perritt on my old show, America's Newsroom.

这段视频现在疯传了，因为你仔细看他衬衫上方的脖子位置，特别像是一个没贴紧皮肤的口罩边缘。

And that video has now gone super viral because if you focus on his neck right above his shirt, it very much looks like the bottom of a mask that is detached from the skin.

我实在想不出还能有别的解释。

I don't know what else this could be.

网上有些人猜测，说那可能只是个阴影。

There's some speculation by some online saying maybe it's a shadow.

但在我看来，那根本不像阴影，可要说真是口罩，又有点让人难以置信。

It doesn't look like a shadow to me, but it's kind of hard to swallow mask.

我们还有他其他几次露面的视频。

We have other video of this man from other hits he's done.

我得说，他在《美国新闻室》这段看起来比其他视频里要自然得多。

And I will say he looks a little smoother in his America's Newsroom hit than he does in some of his other videos.

所以，我也说不准了。

So it's like, I don't know.

我真不明白他干嘛要戴口罩。

Maybe I have no idea why he would be in a mask.

我一开始看到的时候，还以为是啥疯狂的阴谋论。

At first I saw it and I said, this is some crazy conspiracy theory.

现在的人真是够离谱的。

People are nuts.

但这段视频传得特别火，连我认识的那些正经记者、不是搞阴谋论的人都在问：这到底是什么东西？

But it's gone so viral with so many people who I consider legitimate reporters, non conspiratorial people saying, What in the hell is this?

所以我们不得不聊聊这个事。

That we gotta talk about it.

马克，你有啥看法？

Any thoughts, Mark?

我看见你点头了。

I saw you shaking your head yes or nodding your head yes.

你觉得这到底是怎么回事？

What do you make of it?

这实在太奇怪了。

It's just bizarre.

我真不知道该怎么理解这事。

I don't know what to make of it.

我的第一反应是，这肯定是口罩，结果你却说，也许只是个影子。

I mean, first thing is I thought it was a given that it was a mask and then you're raising, well, it could be a shadow.

我心想，等等，咱们是不是该先假设人家没戴口罩呢？

I'm like, oh, wait, let's give them the presumption of innocence here.

也许那根本不是口罩。

Maybe it's not a mask.

如果不是口罩，那我们到底在讨论什么？

And if it's not a mask, then what the hell are we doing talking about it?

对吧？

Right?

但如果它

But if it

是，

is,

那是维瓦·弗莱，我们都很喜欢他，他也是个律师。

Well, that's Viva Fry, who we love, he's a lawyer too.

他还是个记者。

He's a journalist.

他说他认为那是个影子。

And he said he thinks it's a shadow.

他说，如果你看这个横跨他喉咙的痕迹，正好是那种罩在头上的面具会结束的位置，他认为那是他嘴唇动作的反射。

He thinks if you watch this mark, which is horizontal across his throat, right exactly where a mask that you might pull over your head would end, he thinks it's mirroring his lip movements.

我明白他什么意思。

And I can see what he means there.

确实是在模仿他的唇部动作。

It is kind of mirroring his lip movements.

所以我不确定这能说明什么，乔娜。

So I don't know what that tells us, Jonna.

不知道是啥-

Don't know what-

咱们在干嘛？

What we doing?

这到底是什么？

What is it?

还有一种说法是，这可能是提词器的反光，但Veeva，嘉宾根本用不着提词器。

Theory is also that somehow it's a reflection of the teleprompter, but Veeva, there would be no teleprompter for the guest.

你们俩上福克斯新闻当嘉宾的次数多得数不清了。

You guys have been guests on Fox News countless times.

嘉宾是不会有提词器的。

The guest does not get a teleprompter.

最多就是有个小摄像头，对着它看。

At best, they get a little camera that they look into.

而且摄像头也不会在嘉宾脸上投下影子。

So and the camera doesn't cast shadow on the per on the guest.

所以会不会是他衣服造成的阴影？

So I don't maybe it's his shirt causing a shadow?

我不确定。

I don't know.

乔娜，你怎么看？

Jonna, what do you think?

我一开始还以为这是Zoom的特效，因为Zoom有时候会把画面处理得特别奇怪。

Well, I originally thought before I realized that this wasn't Zoom, sometimes Zoom, when it enhances your image, can make things look really weird.

但我现在觉得，这可能是某种面具或者伪装，梅根。

But I actually think if it's a mask, disguise onto something, Megyn.

你听我说完。

Hear me out.

我知道这种事可能没在你身上发生过，但我确实遇到过好几次。

I know this probably doesn't happen to you, but it's happened to me.

你有没有过早上醒来，突然发现不对劲，心里一紧的时刻？

How many times do you wake up in the morning one day and you're like, oh, no.

我的肉毒杆菌效果过去了。

My Botox wore off.

对吧？

Right?

然后你上了电视。

And then you got and you have TV.

对吧？

Right?

你有个大场面。

You've got some big thing.

你有个

You got a

大项目。

big comp.

天哪。

You're like, shoot.

好的。

Okay.

我去拿面膜。

Let me get the mask.

哎呀。

Whoop.

在你去找打玻尿酸的医生之前。

And until you can get to your Botox doctor.

反对。

Objection.

完全没法感同身受。

Unrelatable.

我喜欢这个。

I love it.

你可以提出异议。

You can object.

不行。

No.

那是什么？

What is it?

这会很有帮助。

It would be so helpful.

等等。

Wait.

我们还真从网上找了个视频，有人在戴一种超逼真的硅胶床垫。

We actually pulled video from the internet of somebody putting on an ultra realistic silicone mattress

太厉害了。

Amazing.

硅胶。

Silicone

你看看这个。

Watch this.

好了。

All right.

听众朋友们，你们得去四十分钟过后的那个节目看看这个。

So listening audience, you gotta go to the show at forty four after the hour and look at this.

他正在把脸戴上去，把边缘拉一拉，好让鼻子那块贴合到位。

He's putting on his face, he's pulling it to sort of get it on the nose properly.

他把脖子下面的部分塞进T恤里，还戴了顶帽子，这样就能遮住那些奇怪的地方了。

He's putting the bottom neck underneath his T shirt, he's putting on a cap so you can hide the weirdness.

哇，他看起来太逼真了，有点瘆人。

Ew, he looks very creepily real.

对。

Yeah.

在

At

那儿。

that.

你根本看不出来。

You would not know.

梅根，为了坦诚起见，她想说几句。

Megyn, in the interest of disclosure, wanted to say something.

天哪，别吓我啊。

Oh gosh, don't freak me out.

别闹了，真吓人。

No, ew, you're freaking me out.

他假装在摘下面具。

He's pretending to pull off his mask.

我跟你说件事。

Let me tell you something.

昨晚网上因为这事炸锅了，我本人也刷得停不下来。

So the internet was going nuts with this last night, yours truly included.

其中流传最广的一个视频里，压根儿没人知道还有这么个人。

And one of the clips that started to circulate was of the I didn't even know there was such a person.

前中情局的伪装专家。

The former chief of disguise at the CIA.

这工作简直太酷了。

Coolest job ever.

谁不想要这份工作呢？

Who doesn't want that job?

她叫乔娜·门德斯。

Her name is Jonna Mendez.

她后来上了那个歌手詹妮弗·哈德森的节目。

And she went on you know the singer, Jennifer Hudson?

哈德森当时有个谈话节目，这位女士就去了。

She had a talk show for a while, and this woman went on.

我当时就觉得，这也太意外了。

I was like, so random.

什么？

What?

前中情局伪装主管在詹妮弗·哈德森的节目中提到，中情局确实会使用一种完整的头部面具，连脖子部分都包住，他们真的用过这种东西。

The former CIA chief of disguise was speaking to Jennifer Hudson and talked about how this is absolutely something they do at CIA, a full head mask that you put on over that has like the neck ending, and they used it.

她还讲了自己在椭圆形办公室向一位前总统展示这个面具的经历。

And she talked about when she revealed it to a former president in the Oval Office.

你看看这个。

Watch this.

对你来说，执行伪装任务时最难忘的时刻是什么？

What's the most memorable moment from being in disguise for you?

有很多难忘的时刻，但有一个特别突出的。

There were a number of them but the one I mean, one that has to stand out.

我曾经去过白宫。

I went to the White House

对。

Mhmm.

当时我戴着全套面部面具，向老布什总统做简报。

And I briefed George h w Bush, the president at the time, while I was wearing a full face mask.

所以我们坐得特别近，我告诉他我要给他展示我们最厉害的伪装。

So we're sitting like this close together and I'm telling him that I'm gonna show him the best disguise that we have.

他东张西望，想找那个袋子，‘袋子在哪？’

And he's looking for a bag like, where where is it?

我说：‘其实我就戴着呢。’我正要摘下来，他立马喊停，站起来前后左右看，怎么都看不出那是面具。

I said, well, I'm wearing it and I'm going to take it off and I reached to start taking it off and he said, stop and he got up and he walked and he looked and he looked and he couldn't, he didn't know it was a mask.

他根本搞不清我头上戴的是什么。

He wasn't sure what I was wearing.

他重新坐了回去。

He sat back down.

他说：‘好吧。’

He said, okay.

于是我摘下面具，举起来让他好好看看。

So, I took it off and I was holding it up in the air so he could see it.

整个脑袋都在里面。

My whole head.

它有头发、脸，还有脖子。

It had hair and a face and a neck.

所以你可以扮成另一个人到处走。

So, you could walk around as someone else.

当然可以。

Absolutely.

那就是伪装的全部了。

And that would be the disguise.

没错。

Absolutely.

那真是个绝妙的伪装。

That was a great disguise.

直接上珍妮弗吧。

Just go go Jennifer.

不过几年前倒是有个萨莉·杰西。

But Go go Sally Jesse around years ago.

哇。

Wow.

这也太离谱了。

That was was so random.

真是没法编出来的。

You can't make it up.

不过，对于正在听的听众来说，她身后有一张她的照片，照片里她举着那个小面具，看起来就像一颗被砍下来的头放在椭圆形桌前一样。所以，这家伙出于某种原因真的戴了个面具，这完全不是不可能。

But there for the listening audience, there's she there's a picture of her behind her talking of her holding her little mask up like a like almost like a severed head sitting in the oval, and it it's it is not impossible at all that this guy, for some reason, was wearing an actual mask.

我们就是不知道原因。

We just don't know why.

要是这位前CIA官员在美国新闻节目上这么说，我肯定会信服的，马克。

Now if this guy's former CIA talking on America's newsroom, I I think I'd be con convinced, Mark.

但他只是前情报局的。

But he's former scent com.

对。

Right.

他的动机是什么？

What's his motive?

他确实没有。

And he doesn't Right.

对。

Yeah.

他秃头，根本不需要操心头发和皱纹。

He doesn't have the he's bald.

他不用在意头发和皱纹的问题。

He doesn't need to worry about the hair, the the wrinkles.

也许他并不秃头。

Maybe he's not bald.

对，没错。

What yeah.

而且，除非这个人根本不是他。

What's and and also well, unless this isn't him.

我觉得这是某些人的看法。

Like, I think that's the theory by some.

这是他早些时候的镜头，形象跟之前在《美国新闻台》里那张脸不太一样，看起来更粗犷一点，没那么光滑。

So here's an earlier shot of him on a different appearance where he does look a little bit more rugged and less smooth than in this other one on America's Newsroom.

但我想问的是，各位，那个在《美国新闻台》出现的人，真的是罗伯特·霍华德本人吗？

But I think the the question is, guys, was it actually this man, Robert Howard, on America's newsroom?

因为我听了很多观众的反馈。

Because, you know, I I've listened to the audience.

很多人觉得乔·拜登有个长得特别像的替身，经常戴着他的面具露面。

Many of them thought that Joe Biden had a lookalike or a sort of a stand in who wore a Joe Biden mask many, many times.

网上还能找到一些剪辑视频，能明显看出身高差异。

And there there would be videos on the Internet they'd cut where, like, you could see the height differential.

我们有大量乔·拜登和吉尔·拜登站在一起的视频。

We had tons of video of Joe Biden next to Jill Biden.

有几段视频里，他身体不太利索，看起来矮了不少，几乎跟吉尔一样高。

And in a couple of videos, you know, and he was infirm, you'd see him much shorter, like almost her height.

人们都会说：天哪，这是怎么回事？

And people would be like, woah, what happened?

人不可能一下子矮了六英寸吧。

You don't shrink, you know, by six inches.

那我们能不能排除这种可能，还是说我们只是被卷入了眼下这股狂热——外星人层出不穷，以前说全是胡扯的事，现在居然都成真了？

So can we rule it out or are we just getting pulled into the madness that's in the right now with all the aliens coming out and like all the things we were told were bullshit are true.

没错，大脚怪还活着。

Right, Bigfoot is alive.

我们现在确定了。

We know that now.

它是真实存在的。

It's real.

我们在《美国新闻之旅》那期节目里做过一个相关片段。

We did a segment on that at America's New Trip No.

有一次，夏天特别无聊的时候，艾格拉什，这事儿真难办。

One time In the doldrums of summer, Eiglarsh, it's hard.

要填满两小时的节目时间真不容易。

It's hard to fill the two hours of airtime.

天啊，我们就不能聊点谋杀案吗？

God, can't we just talk about a murder?

我知道。

I know.

来点简单点、好解决的吧。

Something simple to solve.

好吧，那我们不是已经有答案了吗？

All right, so don't we have answers.

是不是说到底就是

Is that is that basically

我们不清楚。

where We don't know.

我们不知道是谁。

Who We don't know.

你投哪一票？

What's your vote?

如果必须选，你觉得那是面具吗？

If you have to vote, what was it a mask or not?

你怎么看？

What do you say?

乔娜，你说呢？

Jonna?

唉。

Ugh.

看起来确实像面具。

It kinda looks like a mask.

但如果你真有那么高明，都敢戴别人的脸，那应该会戴得更久一点吧？

But if you're that sophisticated where you're gonna put on somebody else's face, wouldn't it be a little bit longer?

你难道不会像奥斯汀·鲍owers那样围条围巾吗？

Wouldn't you wear a scarf like a Austin Powers?

想办法遮一下。

Do something to cover that up.

或者围条领巾。

Or like an ascot.

对。

Yeah.

我选阴影。

I'm going with shadow.

这根本就是小题大做。

This is much ado about nothing.

根本没什么。

Nothing.

没有。

No.

不确定是否

Don't know if

你真的这么想？

you want Really?

你不知道吗？

You don't know?

它动起来就跟面具底部一模一样，真的。

It moves just like the bottom of a mask, it really does.

我想我还是选阴影吧，毕竟奥卡姆剃刀原理，最简单的解释通常才是对的。

I guess I'll go with shadow because Occam's razor, simplest explanation is usually the best.

再说，这个人为什么要戴面具？

And again, why would this guy be wearing a mask?

他的声音跟罗伯特·霍华德在其他作品里的声音一模一样。

And his voice sounds just like the voice of the actual Robert Howard in other hits.

所以我不觉得是另一个人。

So I don't believe it was a different person.

但我们能知道真相吗？

But will we ever know?

他得发个声明。

He's gonna have to put out a statement.

我打赌，他最多再过两小时就会出面回应了。

I guarantee you, we are T minus like two hours from him putting or out a doing a hit.

他一出现，我们就立刻把视频更新给观众。

He's gonna show up and we'll update the audience with that video when it happens.

好了，大家稍等一下，今天我们有好多法律案件要聊，而且都不错。

All right, stand by guys, because we've got so many medical or sorry, legal cases to get to, and there's some good ones today.

趁现在有空跟你们说一下，今天是周五，也就是我们每周只发一次邮件的日子。

While I have you, it is Friday, and that means it is the one day of the week we send you an email.

只要你在我们的邮件列表里，我们就不会像别人那样拿你的信息去赚钱。

If you are on our list, we don't sell our list like so many others so we can make money off of you.

我们每周只发一封邮件，里面用六十秒以内的时间，汇总一周的所有重要资讯。

We just send you one email a week, and in it, we give you all the news of the week in sixty seconds or less.

哪怕你只看开头的那几条要点，也能跟上最新动态。

If you just wanna read the opening bullet point bullet points, you'll be up to speed.

这周我们会分享一些幕后内容，一些你们可能错过的视频，我们认为这些都是最棒的。

This week, we're gonna give you a bunch of behind the scenes stuff, videos that you may have missed that are we think are, our best.

总有一个点击量最高的内容，那就是我的小红狗斯特鲁威克，他特别调皮，不过没以前那么闹腾了。

And there's always the most clicked on item, and that would be Strudwick Brunt, my little red boy who is very, very naughty, though not as naughty as he used to be.

他现在好多了。

He is getting better.

谢谢所有人在他一岁、两岁、三岁当小狗的时候告诉我，只要耐心等，他一定会变好的。

So thanks to all of you who told me when he was just a one and two and three year old lab that if I just waited, he would get better.

你们没说他会变得完美，这很好。

You never said perfect, and that's good.

你们也没给我错误的期待。

You didn't totally mislead me.

他还没到完美的地步，我觉得他这辈子也难了，但我们每次都会更新斯特鲁威克的近况。

He's not perfect, and I don't think he's ever gonna be, but we always put an update on Strudwick in there.

幸运也好，不幸也罢，就像我们总统说的，他总能给我带来新动态。

And fortunately or unfortunately, to quote our president, he always gives me an update.

如果你夏天出门连个急救药箱都没有，那可是在冒险——很多人直到出事了才想起来这事儿。

If you are heading into summer without a medical emergency kit, you're taking a risk most people don't think about until it's too late.

夏天的感冒特别难好，一不小心就会发展成持续几周的鼻窦炎。

Summer colds linger and can turn into sinus infections that last for weeks.

我跟你说，我朋友家有个人最近就碰上一回，情况差点失控，真的很危险。

Can I tell you, my friend's family member just had one of these that got out of control, actually dangerous?

鼻窦炎这事儿真得盯紧了，不能拖。

You do have to stay on top of sinus infections.

假期前突然生病，啥计划都得泡汤。

Getting sick right before vacation can derail everything.

在外头旅行时，想找医生、买药，那真是又累又烦。

And when you're traveling, finding a doctor and pharmacy is stressful.

我来给你说说The Wellness Company推出的急救药箱。

But let me tell you about the medical emergency kit from The Wellness Company.

这东西就像把急诊室和药房直接搬到了你家。

It's like an urgent care and a pharmacy right at home.

它包含了像阿莫西林和仿制Z Pax这样的关键处方药，能应对多种常见且严重的疾病。

It includes essential prescriptions like amoxicillin and generic Z Pax to treat a wide range of common and serious illnesses.

不用等医生预约，不用在急诊室耗上几个小时，不用排长队取药，也不用付自付额。

No waiting for your doctor, no hours at urgent care, no pharmacy lines, no copays.

只要对照手册里的症状找到对应的药，或者直接联系他们随时待命的远程医生就行。

Just match your symptoms to the right prescription in your guidebook or call their telemed doctor standing by.

早点用药，恢复得也更快。

Start in your meds sooner and feel better faster.

在线下单几分钟就能搞定，药直接送到你家，用我的优惠码MK还能省45美元，网址是urgentcarekit.com/mk。

Order yours online in minutes and it is shipped to your door and save $45 with my promo code MK at urgentcarekit.com/mk.

优惠码是MK。

That's promo code MK.

去urgentcarekit.com/mk下单吧。

Go to urgentcarekit.com/mk.

现在回到节目，欢迎收听我们MK真实犯罪频道的《Positively Legal》主持人。

Back with me now are the hosts of Positively Legal on our MK True Crime channel.

这档播客叫 MK True Crime。

That's a podcast that's called MK True Crime.

你可以过去订阅，收听《Positively Legal》，好好享受一下。

You can go over there and subscribe and listen to Positively Legal and enjoy.

他们是我们的 Kelly's Court 元老级嘉宾，Mark Eiglarsh 和 Jonna Spilbor。

These are our Kelly's Court OGs, Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor.

去 mktruecrime.com 查看他们在哪些平台上线，以及如何订阅。

Check out mktruecrime.com to find out all the platforms that they are on and how to subscribe.

对了，《Positively Legal》每周三更新新一期。

By the way, new episodes of Positively Legal drop every Wednesday.

我们叫它《Positively Legal》，是因为这两位律师虽然专打硬仗，却总是待人和善，总能从困境中找到积极的一面。

We call it Positively Legal because these two happen to be like these crushing killer lawyers who are actually always affable and can always find the positive in a situation.

节目特别有意思。

And it's a fun show.

来听一小段。

Here's just a little.

我们截取这段音频，就是为了让大伙儿感受一下在《Positively Legal》里能听到什么风格的内容。

We pull the sound bite just so people can get a flavor of what they might find on Positively Legal here

在Sot 20。

in Sot 20.

你要是忙到连注射肉毒杆菌的医生都发消息来关心你安不安全，那说明你真的压力很大了——我就是这么个情况。

You know that you are so busy and stressed when you get a text from your Botox doctor checking on your well-being, which I did, by the way.

我那个打肉毒杆菌的医生跟我说：嘿。

My Botox doctor's like, hey.

你还好吗？

Everything okay?

他真是专门来查岗的，因为我好一阵没去复诊了。

Like, he literally did a welfare check because I haven't been there.

为啥？

Why?

因为实在太忙了。

Because we're so busy.

我忙得不可开交。

I'm busy.

你也一样忙。

You're busy.

而且我

And I

我对整容医生这事有点复杂。

have mixed feelings about a Botox doctor.

真的吗？

Really?

整容医生？

Botox doctor?

我的意思是，他又不是你的心脏医生。

I mean, he's not your heart doctor.

他只是想往你脸上打东西。

He wants to put this stuff in your face.

明白吧？

Okay?

对。

Yes.

真的吗？

Yes?

对。

Yes.

而且其他地方我也会让他打

And anywhere else that I'll let

那东西。

him put it.

所以我还挺想他的。

So I miss him.

说得不错。

Good stuff.

真糟心。

Fuck.

你不懂。

You don't know.

不是每个人都能像你一样天生丽质。

Not everybody wakes up gorgeous like you.

别说了。

Stop it.

我们其他人得拼命争取，乔娜。

The rest of us have to fight for it, Jonna.

我支持你随时预约肉毒杆菌医生。

I support you in having the Botox doctor on speed dial.

我要让马克也试试。

I'm gonna turn Mark.

你知道吗，现在男人也做这个了，马克。

You know, men are doing it too, Mark.

当然了。

For sure.

对。

Yeah.

我老是被人指责，

I get accused,

但他们确实如此。

but They are.

你会很惊讶的。

You'd be surprised.

不会的。

No.

我绝对不会做这种事。

Ain't gonna do it.

我肯定没法让道格去做，但我确实认识一些在电视圈甚至政府里打玻尿酸的男人，我说的是真男人。

Now I I will never get Doug to do it, but I do know some people in television and even in government who are getting the Botox, and I speak of men.

我的意思是，女人打这个不奇怪，但连男人都开始打了。

I mean, women, it's like not a shock, but even men.

要是做得好，根本看不出来。

And if they get it done right, you don't even notice.

你只会觉得他们状态特别好。

You just think that they look great.

完全看不出来。

You can't tell.

但如果他们的笑容只到这儿，那你就知道，很多男性都是在这儿打的。

But if their smile ends here, then you know that's where a lot of guys get it.

当然还有那著名的川字纹，那就是

And of course the famous elevens, that's

我打的是匹克球，那地方就是我的注射点。

where that's My injections are pickleball.

幸好这句话说到这儿就停了。

I'm glad that statement ended where it did.

好的。

Okay.

我想先聊聊这个可怕的亨利·诺瓦克案件。

I wanna kick this off with this horrific Henry Nowak case.

他是个苏格兰人，当时在英国南安普顿的一所大学读书。

So he's a Scot and he was going to college in Great Britain in the English city of Southampton.

他和朋友出去玩完，走在回家的路上。

He was walking home after a night out with friends.

昨天我们说这事发生在2023年，其实不对。

Yesterday, we said this happened in 2023.

我得纠正一下。

I'd like to correct that.

其实是2025年12月。

It was December 2025.

他是个大一学生，学会计，那天和朋友玩完正往家走。

He was walking home, first year college student studying accounting, from a night out with friends.

他喝了一点酒，但没喝多少。

He had been drinking, but not much.

他还没达到酒驾的标准。

He was not legally drunk.

有个叫维克拉姆·迪格瓦的男人靠近了他，他是锡克教徒，穿着传统的锡克服饰，随身带着刀具，这是他们宗教习俗的一部分。

And a man approached him named Vikram Digwa, who is Sikh and dresses in traditional Sikh garb and carries knives as part of that chosen garb.

在英国，某些刀具是禁止携带的，但如果是宗教原因，可以例外。

You're not allowed to carry certain knives in Great Britain, but there's an exception if it's for your religion.

比如他随身带着一把八英寸长的沙斯塔刀，还有一把锡克教的库尔潘仪式短刀。

So for example, he carried an eight inch long shastar, which is a knife, as well as a Sikh kurpan, a ceremonial blade.

好的。

Alright.

我们现在展示的是这把刀和这个人的照片。

So we're we're showing a picture of it now and of this particular guy.

在英国，锡克教徒依法可以在公共场合携带库尔潘刀，因为这受到宗教豁免条款的保护。

In The UK, Sikhs are legally permitted to carry a kurpan knife in public as it's protected under religious exemption laws.