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嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
今天能和你聊天我特别兴奋，因为今天我们要做一件特别酷的事。
I am so excited to talk to you today because today we're doing something super cool.
我丈夫克里斯托弗·罗宾斯也在这里。
My husband, Christopher Robbins, is here.
嗨，克里斯。
Hi, Chris.
我在呢。
In the house.
我在呢。
In the house.
我们正在回顾三十年的婚姻生活。
And we are reflecting on thirty years of marriage.
真不敢相信我们在一起已经超过三十年了。
I can't believe we've been together for over thirty years.
感觉就像经历了成长、找工作、被解雇、养孩子、付账单、欠债、还债、搬家、吵架、挣扎、和好、互相争吵、渐行渐远、重新找回彼此、努力学会爱自己这一大堆事情。
And it feels like this giant of growing up, getting jobs, getting fired from jobs, raising kids, paying bills, getting into debt, getting out of debt, moving, fighting, struggling, making up, fighting with each other, growing apart, finding our way back to each other, trying to figure out how to love ourselves.
好吧，我们要好好聊聊这些，因为经历了所有的怨恨、挣扎、起起落落，你和我这三十年里，哦，来了来了。
Well, we're gonna unpack this because through all the resentment, the struggles, the ups, the downs, you and I over the course of thirty years, oh, here we go.
我们已经哭了。
We're already crying.
这可是你第一次比我先哭。
That's a first that you're crying before me.
我们总能重新找回彼此。
We've always found our way back to each other.
所以今天，你，哦，天哪。
And so today, you oh, God.
他也哭了。
He's crying too.
好吧。
Okay.
看来我们得赶紧插播广告了。
I guess we're gonna have to go to commercials quickly.
今天，我们要聊聊我们通过惨痛教训学到的三个道理。
Today, you and I are going to talk about the three lessons that we've learned the hard way.
这些道理，真希望几十年前就有人告诉我们，它们真的能让感情变得有意义、长久。
Lessons we wish somebody would have taught us decades ago that truly make your relationship meaningful and lasting.
既然我都快哭了，我觉得咱们最好缓一缓，然后再开始这期节目。
And so since I'm starting to cry, I think we better, take a beat, and then we'll start the episode.
你感觉怎么样？
How do feel?
感觉很好。
Feeling great.
谢谢你邀请我来。
Thanks for having me on.
我想象不出还能和谁一起做我的三十周年结婚纪念日特辑。
I can't imagine who else I'd do my thirtieth wedding anniversary episode with.
我猜是我们的夫妻治疗师吧。
I guess our couples therapist.
谢天谢地有他。
Thank God for him.
嘿。
Hey.
我是你的朋友梅尔和我丈夫克里斯托弗·罗宾斯。
It's your friend Mel and my husband Christopher Robbins.
欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
我非常激动你能来参加这次千载难逢的对话，因为今天，我和我丈夫要聊聊并回顾我们结婚三十周年的纪念日。
I am absolutely thrilled that you're here for a once in a lifetime conversation because today, my husband and I are talking and reflecting on our thirtieth wedding anniversary.
这只会发生一次，不是因为我们分手了，而是因为就像你只有一次三十周年结婚纪念日一样。
And this is only gonna happen once, not because we're breaking up, but because like you only have your thirtieth wedding anniversary once.
能和你在一起，共度这段时光，真是莫大的荣幸。如果你是新朋友，或者也许是你伴侣把这一集发给了你，或者他们现在把你困在车里，你正在听，这是他们的一种治疗方式或约会。
And it's such an honor to be together with you, to spend this time with you if you're new here or if maybe somebody you're in a relationship with sent you this episode or they've trapped you in a car with them right now and you're listening and this is their form of therapy or a date.
欢迎。
Welcome.
我也对我丈夫这么做过。
I've done that to my husband too.
欢迎来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客大家庭。
Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.
你会喜欢这次对话的，因为今天，我丈夫克里斯和我正在和你一起庆祝我们结婚三十周年。
You are going to love this conversation because today, my husband Chris and I are celebrating our thirtieth wedding anniversary with you.
我们将分享过去三十年里学到的三个教训。
And we're gonna share three lessons that we have learned over the last three decades.
这些教训，我真希望三十年前我们结婚时，有人能直接给我们总结好。
These are lessons that I wish somebody had just foamed, summed up for us when we got married thirty years ago.
这些都是我们吃了苦头才学到的。
We learned this stuff the hard way.
克里斯，这解释了我们生活中那些真的很难熬的岁月。
It explains so much about the years of our life, Chris, where we were really struggling.
这也解释了如何重新找回你爱上的那个人的路线图。
It also explains the road map for how you find your way back to the person that you fell in love with.
所以，我对此感到非常兴奋。
And so, I'm super excited about this.
欢迎来到播客，Chris。
Welcome to the podcast, Chris.
谢谢。
Thanks.
谢谢邀请我。
Thanks for having me.
我很高兴来到这里。
I'm happy to be here.
我期待这些小小的教训，因为它们确实帮助我们理清了所经历的一切。
And I'm looking forward to these little lessons because they do help crystallize all that we did go through.
天哪，我们经历了很多。
Boy, we went through a lot.
是的，我们确实经历了很多。
Yes, we have.
在一段长期关系里，不可能不经历那么多起起落落。
It's impossible to be in a long term relationship and not experience so many ups and downs.
那三十年对你来说感觉怎么样？
And what does thirty years feel like for you?
比如，当你真正想到三十年过去了，如果你是新听众，你知道，我应该提一下我们还有三个孩子。
Like, when you really think about thirty years going by, and if you're brand new to the show, you know, I should just say that we also have three kids.
他们分别是27岁、26岁和21岁。
They're 27, 26, and 21 years old.
我们经历了很多起起落落，进进出出财务危机，我们俩都被解雇过，挣扎过，也有过感到迷茫的时候。
And we have been through so many ups downs and been in and out of financial crisis, and we've both been fired from jobs and struggled and had moments where we feel lost.
我们的孩子也曾经有过困难。
We've had kids that have struggled.
我们处理了你父亲去世的事情。
We've navigated your father dying.
就是，三十年的生活，你会经历很多。
Like, just thirty years of your life, you navigate a lot.
想到我们已经结婚三十年了，你首先想到的是什么，克里斯？
When you think about the fact that we've been married for thirty years, what comes to mind for you, Chris?
说实话，就像翻页动画一样，一页页翻过去，那些当时感觉特别强烈、特别深刻的瞬间，不管是开心到顶点，还是低落到底谷，都很有意义，而且它们过去的速度真的快得惊人。
Honestly, the visual of, like, a flip book where you flip it through and it's like and all of those scenes that in the moment feel so acute, so profound, either whether you're elated or were feeling on top or feeling at the bottom, they all are meaningful, and the speed at which they have passed is quite remarkable, honestly.
想到已经过了三十年，真让人难以置信。
To think that it's been thirty years is a bit jaw dropping.
你知道吗，刚坠入爱河的时候，因为那些美妙的爱情化学物质——这是我刚编的专业术语——充满全身，你会产生一种错觉，以为以后都会这样。
You know, when you first fall in love, you have this assumption because of all the fabulous love chemicals That's a technical term I just made up that are flooding through your body attraction that you kind of gaslight yourself into thinking, Oh, it's always gonna be like this.
如果说我们通过惨痛教训学到的一件事，也是每个人在生活中都会学到的，那就是事情总是在变化。
And if there's one thing that we've learned the hard way and everybody learns in life is that things are always changing.
而检验一段关系的真正标准，不是看你们在顺利的时候相处得怎么样。
And that the true test of your relationship is not how you are together when things are good.
我的意思是，你可能会和一个不太好的人在一起，关系也不怎么样，但如果一切都很顺利，你其实不需要太依赖这段关系。
I mean, you could be with a not great person in a not great relationship, but if things are going really well, you don't really have to lean on the relationship.
真正的考验是事情搞砸的时候会发生什么。
The true test is what happens when things fall apart.
当你丢了工作，父母去世，孩子生病，压力来袭，银行账户透支，生活让你变得坚强，而生活确实如此。
When you lose the job, when a parent dies, when a child is sick, when the pressure hits, when the bank account is bouncing, when life makes you hard, and life does that.
我已经在哭了。
I'm already crying.
我不知道，因为我只是在想我们生活中经历了多少艰难的时刻。
I don't know because I'm just thinking about like how many freaking hard periods of our life we've had.
在我们的关系中，我真正挣扎的一件事是，当生活让我变得坚强时，我常常把那种锋芒带进我们的关系里。
And one of the things that I really struggled with in our relationship is how often when life hardened me, I brought that edge into our relationship.
如果你要和一个人走到最后，那真的是因为你选择了一个你可以一起面对困难、一起挣扎、可以依靠的人。
And if you're gonna go the distance with somebody, it's really because you have picked somebody that you can do the difficult things with, that you can struggle with, that you can lean on.
当我回头看时，我学到的最大的教训之一——我先用我的话解释，然后我会分享一位了不起的关系专家是怎么总结的——就是当生活变得艰难时，我变得对你非常苛刻。
And when I look back, one of the biggest lessons that I've learned, and I'm gonna explain it first in my words, and then I'm gonna share the way one of the incredible relationship experts summed it up, is when life got hard, I became very hard on you.
当生活真的开始打击我时，我开始把气撒在你身上。
When life really started to beat me up, I started to take it out on you.
我觉得这是人们常犯的一个非常大的错误。
And I think that's an extremely common mistake that people make.
如果你停下来反思一下自己的感情，想想你有多经常把一天的压力怪罪到对方头上，事实上，就在昨晚，你对所爱之人有多情绪化、多暴躁，甚至多刻薄。
And if you stop and reflect and think about your own relationship, how often you've blamed stress of the day in fact, just did this last night on how emotional or how volatile or how just mean you might be to the person that you love.
我学到的第一个教训，既是感情结束的原因，也是让你重新回到所爱之人身边的简单道理。
And the first lesson that I really learned that is both the reason why relationships end, and it's also the simple lesson that brings you back to the person you fell in love with.
那就是：你是我最喜欢的人。
And it's this, you're my favorite person.
这是我听过的最好的感情建议。
That is the best relationship advice I have ever heard.
就四个字：你是我最喜欢的人。
Four words, you're my favorite person.
所以对我来说，第一个要点是，如果你在一段感情里，你能对身边的人说出这句话吗？
And so the first takeaway for me is if you're in a relationship, can you say that about the person that you're with?
因为如果你从心底里从来没觉得这是你最喜欢的人，那你就选错了人。
Because if you fundamentally have never felt like this is your favorite person then you're in the wrong relationship.
而且当你正在经历非常艰难的时刻，我喜欢这四个字的地方在于，你是我最喜欢的人，这就是救命稻草。
And if you're going through a very rough time what I love about these four words, you're my favorite person, is this is the lifeline.
它就像一根牵引绳，你可以抓住它，把自己拉回到仍然真实的事情上，因为即使生活艰难，你爱上的那个人仍然在那里。
It's like a tow rope that you can grab onto to pull you back to what is still true because even when life is hard, that person that you fell in love with is still in there.
我也喜欢这个问题，因为你不仅问自己，你是我最喜欢的人。
And I also love this question because you not only ask yourself, You're my favorite person.
克里斯是我最喜欢的人吗？
Is Chris my favorite person?
当然，我只是现在讨厌我的生活。
Of course, I just hate my life right now.
但他仍然是我最喜欢的人。
But he's still my favorite person.
然后你问自己第二层，我有没有像对待我最喜欢的人那样对待他？
And then you ask yourself the second layer, is am I treating him like my favorite person?
没有。
No.
这对我来说，我觉得就是关键时刻了。
That's kinda where the rubber meets the road, I think, for me.
因为当我回想我们刚认识的时候，当然，你是我最喜欢的人。
Because when I think about when we first met, absolutely, you were my favorite.
一直到现在，事实上，在我们结婚之后，那是几年后的事了。
All the way up until, in fact, after we got married, which was a couple years later.
但在那段时间里，你每时每刻都是我心中最喜欢的人，因为某种程度上，我们真的还没遇到什么困难。
But in that time frame, you were my favorite every moment of every day because, to some extent, we really hadn't hit anything hard.
我们完全不知道在那些艰难时刻我们会变得多坚强，或者会怎么表现，我觉得这正是让关系变得有挑战性的原因，因为早期是所谓的蜜月期，每个人都是彼此的最爱，直到事情变得一团糟。
We had no concept of how we might harden or how we might behave in those tough times, which I think is what makes relationships challenging because in the early days, it is a honeymoon period, as they call it, and everybody's everybody's favorite until it hits the fan.
我知道你意识到事情变得一团糟的那一刻，你开始从我最喜欢的人变成不是我最喜欢的人，变成我生气的对象。
I know the moment that you know what hit a fan, and you started going from my favorite person to not my favorite person, to somebody that I was mad at.
那是在我们二十多岁的时候，我们在纽约认识，当时我们的事业都刚起步，你决定转行，然后你不喜欢，接着你决定创业，但生意不好，然后你决定赶紧找份工作，有一段时间我们连账单都付不起。
And it was when we were in our twenties, and we had met in New York City, and we were early in our careers, and you decided to make a career change, and then you didn't like that, and then you decided to launch a business, and it didn't do well, And then you decided to scramble and get a job, and there was a point where we were so struggling with paying our bills.
我当时是法律援助的公共辩护人。
I was a public defender working for legal aid.
你有一阵子没工作了。
You had not had a job for a while.
你还记得吗？
Do you remember this?
我们当时在讨论作为新婚夫妇搬去和你父母住，我们得搬进他们那个退休房的步出式地下室。
We were talking about moving in with your parents as a new married couple, and we were gonna have to move into, the basement walkout part of their, like, retirement house.
我其实不记得那件事了，但你提起来挺有意思的，因为你让我想一个时刻时，我想到的也是差不多同一时期，既是在我同样开始讨厌自己的背景下，也是我意识到那是我开始不听你说话的时候，因为，因为，不。
I don't actually remember that, but it's funny that you bring this up because when you asked me to think about a moment in time, that's about the same time frame that I thought about myself, both in the context of me also beginning to hate on myself, but also recognizing that that's when I stopped listening to you because because no.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不是，那跟你没关系。
Not it had nothing to do with you.
我太专注于自己，以及我觉得自己应该取得什么成就或产出什么，以至于你几乎不存在了。
I was so focused on me and what I thought I should be achieving or producing that you barely even existed.
所以其实我根本没在听你说话，也没在听你的需求或者你的兴趣。
And so I really wasn't listening to you or your needs or your interests.
所以呢，当我想起那件事的时候，那真的是事情开始有点失控的地方，我当时说，嘿，你知道吗？
And so anyway, when I was thinking about that incident, that was really where things started to unwind a little bit when I said, Hey, you know what?
我想去读MBA，而且我想在波士顿读，我想搬出纽约市。
I wanna go get my MBA, and I wanna do it in Boston, and I wanna move out of New York City.
然后你说，你是在开玩笑吗？
And you said, Are you kidding me?
就像，我热爱我的工作。
Like, I love my job.
这太棒了。
This is great.
我们为什么要离开？
Why are we leaving?
而且我们搬上去的时候，你过得很痛苦。
And you were miserable when we moved up there.
说实话，当时我太执着于自己觉得该为你做的事，以至于完全没注意到你对这个想法其实并不开心。
And, honestly, in the moment, I was so blind to what I thought I should have been doing for you that I was oblivious to the fact that you were even unhappy with the idea.
哇。
Wow.
你以前在治疗中从来没提过这件事。
You've never even brought this up in therapy before.
没有。
No.
但这次是你让我想到这些的。
But you prompted me to think about this.
克里斯，你知道这有多奇怪吗？我一直觉得你是个很能忍的人。
You know what's crazy about this, Chris, is that I always called you stoic.
我说你是个爱思考的人。
I called you a thinker.
当我真的对你很恼火的时候，我会说你反应慢。
I called you, a slow processor when I was really annoyed with you.
我当时只是把你的沉默寡言归咎于你自身的问题，完全没意识到你是在故意不理我。
I just sort of put your sequestering into a box that was about you, and I had no idea that you tuned me out.
当这种情况开始发生时，对我这样的人来说，我只会变得更大声，因为那样我会感到孤独和不安全。
And what happens when that starts to happen is for somebody like me, I just get louder because then I feel alone and unsafe.
而对你这样的人来说，你只会更加沉浸在自己的思绪里。
And for somebody like you, you just sequester more into your head.
我觉得，我们大概有整整十年都是这样过来的吧？
Like, I think that there was like, what, a full decade where we were like this.
不止十年？
It was longer?
不，差不多就是十年。
No, that sounds about right.
总之，十年。
Anyway, ten years.
但十年已经足够造成很大的伤害了。
But that's enough to cause enough damage.
确实，而且确实造成了伤害。
I mean and it did.
而且，你知道，重要的是，我觉得这是我们婚姻中你会形容为‘我们只是室友’的时期。
And, you know, the thing that's important about this is this is, I think, a period of our marriage that you would describe as we were just roommates.
我们会说我们处理日常事务很在行，能送孩子去该去的地方，能喂狗，能把食物摆上桌。
We would say that we do logistics really well, so we can get the kids where they need to go, we can get the dogs fed, we can get groceries on the table.
我们能出现在节日聚会上。
We can get We can show up at the holiday celebration.
我们能完成任务。
We can check the boxes.
我觉得室友阶段没那么早开始，因为我们刚开始有孩子，正在学习如何应对新生儿的挑战。
Can I don't think the roommate phase set in that early because we were beginning to have kids, and so we were learning a new challenge of being parents to newborns?
所以室友状态直到，我想，三个孩子都来了，或者至少两个来了之后，才真正开始，然后隔离就确实开始了。
And so the roommate thing didn't quite settle in until, I think, once all three, or at least two had arrived, and then it was and then the sequestering began for sure.
嗯，我觉得我用的词可能不太贴切。
Well, I think we're I'm kind of using a word maybe that doesn't resonate.
感觉就像生活琐事和日常事务占据了主导。
It felt like logistics and life took over.
而我们的连接，这四个字——你是我最喜欢的人——不再是我们婚姻的核心原则。
And our connection, these four words, you're my favorite person, stopped being the central organizing principle of our marriage.
我真心相信，这四个字作为一种教训和哲学，你可以随时用来检验，立刻就能看出你们的关系是否出现了裂痕。
And I truly believe that these four words as a lesson and a philosophy that you can anchor yourself to immediately reveals whether or not the connection is frayed.
因为如果你不再对伴侣有这种感觉，而以前有过，那就说明生活让你变得坚硬，你们已经进入了疏离的阶段。
Because if you don't feel that way about your partner and you once did, that's a sign that life has hardened you and you're in this phase where you've pulled apart.
然后能够对自己说：我该怎么重新开始把这个人当作我最喜欢的人来对待？
And being able to then go, How do I start treating this person like my favorite person again?
即使事情已经变糟，即使还有很多困难，即使我们在为钱争吵，我们确实为钱吵了几十年，真的是几十年。
Even if things have gone down, even if there are still a lot of struggles, even if we are fighting about money, which we did for decades, absolute decades.
但我想播放梅尔·罗宾斯播客中的这一段，当时世界知名的离婚律师詹姆斯·塞克斯顿在节目里说了这四个字。
But I want to play this moment from the Mel Robbins podcast when a world renowned divorce attorney, James Sexton, said those four words on the show.
就像，婚姻的核心，归根结底就是四个字，我觉得这可能是你能对某人说出的最美好的四个字，或者希望别人对你说，并且你知道那是真的。
Like, at its core, marriage should boil down to four words that I think I think are potentially the most beautiful words you could say to someone and mean or have someone say to you and know they're true.
那就是，你是我最喜欢的人。
And that is, you're my favorite person.
还有什么比被告知并且确信更美好的呢？
Like, what could be more beautiful than being told and knowing?
就是，当这个人说这句话的时候，他们是真心的。
Like, that when this person says it, they mean it.
你是我最喜欢的人。
You're my favorite person.
然后也回应对方，对。
And to say to someone back, yeah.
你是我最喜欢的人。
You're my favorite person.
世界上还有什么比拥有这个更美好的呢？
Like, what would be better in the world than having that?
你懂吗？
You know?
所以我喜欢思考事情的结局，然后反过来推导。
And and so I like to think about kind of the end of things and then reverse engineer.
对我来说，比如在你生命的尽头，如果你能看着另一个人说，你帮助我成为了最真实的自己，而且你仍然是我最喜欢的人。
And to me, like, at the end of your life, if you could look at another person and say, you helped me become the most authentic version of myself, and you're still my favorite person.
那将是你所能拥有的最棒的婚礼祝词。
That's the greatest wedding toast you could ever have.
就像，那是你生命中最棒的祝福，我觉得也是你生命中最宝贵的财富。
Like, that's the greatest blessing you could have in your life, and I think it'd be the greatest asset you could have in your life.
你想对此回应一下吗？
Do you wanna react to that?
我觉得他刚说那将是你所能拥有的最棒的婚礼祝词。
I think he just said that's the greatest wedding toast you could have.
而我的观点是，当我归根结底想为什么你是我最喜欢的人时，这确实让我想哭，因为我可以这么说，在我们刚认识的那几天里，你让我展现出了真实的自我。
And that's my point is that when I boil down what has you be my favorite person, it was and it does make me cry, because I can say that in those first few days when we met, you brought out the authenticity in me.
我
I
感觉就像有人把真正的我解锁了，那个假的我消失了。
felt almost like somebody had unlocked the real me, and that, like, the fake me was had gone away.
那种自由的感觉，确实让我觉得你就是我最喜欢的人。
And that freedom I felt was definitely one of those things that made me feel like you were my favorite.
但有趣的是，你提到关于“变硬”的观点。然后进入所谓的三十年，我们一起经历起起落落、曲折迂回，那才是真正考验人的地方。我觉得，就是要能每天醒来对自己说，这就是当初为什么这个人是我最喜欢的，然后在面对困难时，努力保持那份初心。
What's interesting about that though is your point about hardening, And then you get into, let's now call it, thirty years where we're going through the ups and the downs and the twists and the turns, and that's where the hard work is, I think, is being able to wake up and say, this is originally why this person was my favorite, trying to presence that in the face of the tough stuff that's going on.
嗯，我觉得这就是为什么困难时期那么痛苦。
Well, I think that's why the tough periods are so painful.
因为当你爱上一个人，而且你爱上的那个人真的是你最喜欢的人，你之所以喜欢他们，是因为和他们在一起时，你对自己的感觉。
Because when you fall in love, and you fall in love with somebody who is truly your favorite person, they are your favorite person because of how being with them makes you feel about you.
所以当你最喜欢的人背叛你时，才会那么痛苦。
And that's why it's so painful when your favorite person turns on you.
你会开始觉得，要么他们不再是你最喜欢的人了，因为他们做了某些事；要么是这个世界在考验你，你把压力带回了关系里，发泄在他们身上；要么是你自己出了什么问题，不再像以前那样对待这个你曾经最喜欢的人了。
And you start to feel as if either they are no longer your favorite person because of things they've done or because the world is just pressure testing you and you're now bringing it to the relationship and taking it out on them, or something has happened with you and you're no longer treating this person that you once treated as your favorite person, you don't treat them that way anymore.
詹姆斯·塞克斯顿在梅尔·罗宾斯的播客里分享的这个建议，之所以让我印象深刻，是因为它听起来有点奇怪。
And one of the reasons why I was so struck by this advice that James Sexton shared on the Mel Robbins podcast because it kinda strikes you as odd.
为什么你会从一个世界知名的离婚律师那里寻求感情建议呢？
Why on earth would you get relationship advice from a world renowned divorce attorney?
他基本上是说，因为你会把车开到哪里去修？
And he basically said, because who do you take a car to to fix it?
修车师傅那里。
A mechanic.
因为修车师傅见过车的一切故障。
Because a mechanic has seen everything break in a car.
所以修车师傅能看出问题正在变得严重的迹象。
So a mechanic can spot the signs that things are headed towards a serious thing.
他们能判断出这个可以修好。
They can head this can be fixed.
这个修不好。
This can't be fixed.
这已经彻底报废了。
This is a total wreckage.
詹姆斯还分享了一个观点，我想跟你分享，那就是离婚最确切的预兆，因为这跟第一课有关。
And one of the things that James also shared that I would love to share with you is the surest indicator of a divorce because it does tie to this first lesson.
你是我最喜欢的人。
You're my favorite person.
那我们来听听詹姆斯·塞克斯顿是怎么说的。
So let's hear James Sexton reflecting on that.
我经常跟别人说，对我来说，离婚最确切的预兆不是任何人说的话。
Like, I often tell people, to me, the surest indicator of a divorce is not anything anyone says.
而是一种声音。
It's a sound.
就是这种声音。
And it's this sound.
就是那种，当对方在说话的时候，你心里就发出那种，呃。
It's just that, like, like, when the other person's talking and there's just this, like, ugh.
比如说，什么？
Like, what?
什么什么？
What what?
好吧。
Okay.
就是说，你为什么要拿你说的话来烦我？
Like, why are you bothering me with what you're saying?
或者那种，就是翻白眼的样子。
Or that, like, kind of eye rolling.
就是那些细微的不礼貌和不尊重。
Like, it's just those subtle discourtesies and disrespects.
是语气。
It's the tone.
是肢体语言。
It's the body language.
对，那占了很大一部分。
Like, that's a huge piece.
所以，当你在观察那些迹象时，看看你们在身体上是怎么互动的。
And so I would when you're looking at signs, look at how you physically relate to each other.
我是说，你肯定见过情侣，我敢说，哦。
I mean, you've seen couples, I'm sure Oh.
就是那种……
Where it's
就像，他们为什么……
like Why are they?
即使他们碰一下对方，就像，你知道，刚开始在一起的时候，你碰到对方的皮肤，就像一股电流穿过你，感觉就像，天哪。
Even when they touch each other, it's like, you know, when you're first together, like, you touch your skin, it's like an electric bolt through you of like, oh my god.
这个人碰了我。
This person touched me.
这种感觉，就像，天哪。
This like, oh my god.
我们的腿碰在一起了。
Our legs touched.
就像，我只是说，而且谢天谢地这种感觉会过去，不然我们什么都做不了。
Like, it's just that I mean, and thank god that passes or we just never get anything done.
你懂吗？
You know?
但按理说这种感觉会慢慢过去，变成一种舒服又亲密的连接，因为也许那个人，你不喜欢牵手。
But it's supposed to sort of pass and become, like, still something comfortable and connected because all that person maybe you don't like holding hands.
那没关系。
That's okay.
但也许他们在试着跟你建立联系。
But maybe they're trying to connect with you.
那你想不想跟他们建立联系呢？
So do you wanna connect with them?
就像，如果是因为我不喜欢手汗，那好吧，那你就搂着我的肩膀。
Like and if it's that I don't like sweaty hands, okay, so put your arm around me.
就像，你知道的，靠近一点，做点什么，大家各退一步，折中一下。
Like, you know, lean in and do something like meet each other halfway.
这种小小的肢体和言语上的疏离感有很多。
There's a lot of these little tiny physical and verbal disconnections.
我现在马上就能想到五对夫妻。
I can immediately think of, like, five couples right now.
克里斯，你难道想不到吗？
Can't you, Chris?
比如翻白眼，或者那种“你烦不烦”的态度。
Like, the eye roll, the you're bothering me.
我大概有十年时间都那样对你。
And I was that way with you for probably a decade.
不是一直这样，但我确实那样对过你。
Not all the time, but I threw that at you.
那种不礼貌，那种“哎呀，抱歉”的态度。
That discourtesy, that kinda I'm sorry.
谢谢你这么说。
Thanks for saying that.
我感受到了。
I felt it.
我的意思是，我想我也可以说，我对你也有过那些行为。
I mean, I think I could say the same that I had those things certainly on you as well.
但我认为我们之间的区别是，我比你更会把事情往心里去。
But I think the difference between us is that I internalize things way more than you ever did.
比如，你会爆发出来。
Like, you would lash out.
你——你对这些事的反应是外在的，而我的反应则是相当内在的。
You Your reaction to these things would be external, whereas my reaction would be quite internal.
这并不是说我没有，或者，你知道，或者那些我嘴里嘟囔的声音是什么，但有一半时间，那些话更多是对我自己说的，而不是对你说的，我觉得正是这一点加剧了你对我的愤怒、不信任，或者不管是什么情绪。
That's not to say that I wasn't or, you know, or whatever those noises were that were going on under my breath, But half the time, they were aimed at myself more than they were at you, which I think is the thing that compounded your either anger, distrust, or whatever it was towards me.
因为当你沉默不语，而我因为难过、心烦、害怕或者别的什么而爆发出来——对。
Because when you went silent and I'm lashing out because I'm, like, sad or upset or scared or whatever Right.
而愤怒是最快的发泄方式，然后你变得沉默，我就感觉更加疏远了。
And anger is the fastest, like, valve, and then you go quiet, I feel even more disconnected.
对。
Correct.
其实你当时需要的是一个拥抱，而我却往相反的方向跑。
Really, what you needed was a hug, and I'm running in the opposite direction.
这我不怪你。
Which I don't blame you for.
但话说回来，你知道，当你说要设身处地地理解别人时，那并不总是能做到。
But still, you know, when you talk about meeting people where they are, that wasn't always going down.
我想给你一个非常实际的例子，当你在听或看的时候，看看你如何开始应用这第一课。
I wanna give you, as you're listening or watching, a very real application of how you start to apply this first lesson.
你是我最喜欢的人。
You're my favorite person.
这既是一个测试，你和对的人在一起了吗？
This is both a test of, are you with the right person?
因为如果你从未对那个人有过那种感觉，那你就是没有和对的人在一起。
Because if you've never felt that way about the person, you're not with the right person.
这也是一个让你感受你们关系温度的方式。
It's also a way for you to just take the temperature of your relationship.
什么，什么，怎么了？
What what's what's?
继续吧。
Carry on.
我只是……
I'm just
哦，我以为你要哭了。
Oh, I thought you're about to cry.
我确实快哭了，但那是因为我在想我们生活中的所有时刻。
I was about to, but that's because I'm thinking about all the moments in our life.
它们现在在我脑海里飞速闪过。
They're they're racing by in my head right now.
有很多这样的时刻，即使在糟糕的十年里，也有那么多令人难以置信的、充满欢乐的，就像我们经历过的剧烈起伏一样。
There were a lot of them, and there were so many like, even during the crappy decade, like, there were so many incredible, joyful, like, it's like violent ups and downs that we experienced.
而你可以开始应用这个的方法，我们接下来会深入探讨更深层的问题。
And the thing that you can do to start to apply this, and we are gonna get into the deeper issues.
如果对方做了什么事，你因此怨恨他们，那该怎么办？
What if the person has done something and you're you resent them for it?
如果有人真的伤害了你，你放不下那个心结，那又该怎么办？
What if somebody really hurt you and you can't let go of the grudge?
我们一会儿会聊到这些，但我想先给你分享一个克里斯的做法，我希望你能偷学过来。
We're gonna talk about that in a minute, but I wanna give you something that Chris does that I want you to steal.
这是免费的，而且我现在就可以告诉你，从今天开始，你可以用一张便利贴来改善你们的关系。
It is free, And I will tell you right now that you can use a Post it note to make your relationship better starting today.
因为写便条、藏便条给你伴侣，是重新建立联系最简单、最酷、最快的方法。
Because writing notes and hiding notes to the person you're in a relationship with is the single coolest and fastest way to start to recreate a connection.
而且克里斯，我发誓，克里斯一直在我钱包里藏便条。
And Chris, I swear to God, Chris has been hiding notes in my wallet.
看看这张有多旧了。
Look at how old this one is.
上面写着：又是我，就是想着我有多爱你。
It says, me again, just thinking about how much I love you.
看看这纸条多旧了。
Look how old this thing is.
他也不告诉我，就随手塞进什么东西里。
And he doesn't tell me, he just pops it in something.
你把这张藏起来了。
You have hidden this one.
他把这张便利贴藏起来了。
He hid this post it note.
梅尔，我爱你。
Mel, I love you.
谢谢你爱我。
Thank you for loving me.
他把那张便利贴藏在我那该死的药盒里了。
He hid that post it note in my freaking pill case.
我出差的时候打开这个玩意儿，你知道的，为了吃那些专家们说的能活到一百岁、精力充沛、健健康康的那些东西。
I was on a trip and I opened this sucker up, you know, to take all the things that all the experts tell us we need to take in order to live to be a 100 and like be energized and healthy and all that stuff.
结果它就在那儿。
And there it is.
当你看到这样的便条时，天哪，这儿还有一张。
And when you see a note like that, oh my gosh, here's another one.
我说过我有多爱你了吗？
Did I mention how much I love you?
看看这些东西有多旧了。
Look at how old these things are.
这儿还有一张。
Here's another one.
嗨，你好。
Hi there.
看，这就是我怦怦跳的心。
Look, it's my bursting heart.
天哪，你有点像克里斯。
Oh my God, you're kinda Chris.
或者这里还有一张。
Or here's another one.
它们简直到处都是。
Like they're literally all over the place.
他这么做已经好多年了。
He's been doing this for years.
我会打开我的眼镜盒。
I'll pop open my glasses.
你知道我有多爱你吗？
Did you know how much I love you?
每当我收到这些纸条，我就觉得自己是你最喜欢的人，而你立刻就成了我最喜欢的人。
When I get one of these notes, I feel like your favorite person, and you immediately become mine.
这让我想起我们之间的联系。
And it reminds me of our connection.
它能解决我们可能面临的巨大问题吗？
Does it solve the massive problems that we may be facing?
不能。
No.
它能消除压得我们喘不过气的财务债务吗？
Does it remove the financial debt that is crushing us?
不能。
No.
它能抹去孩子们可能正在挣扎、让我们为怎么处理而争吵的那些问题吗？
Does it erase the issues that our kids may be struggling with that are causing us to argue over what to do about?
不能。
No.
但在那一刻，那张小小的便条，就是你在忙碌生活中表达“你是我最喜欢的人”的方式，而且它是免费的。
But in that moment, that singular note is your way to use your my favorite person in a busy life, and it's free.
你可以像我在你桌上留便条那样，当你去主持你灵魂层面的静修时，你也可以留下它，就像你就是这样渗透进我的生活，并和我建立了联系。
You could leave it like I leave it on your desk when you go and lead your soul's degree retreats, like that's how you have infiltrated and created a connection with me.
不管我在哪里，当我发现其中一样东西时，我就会想，天哪。
That no matter where I am, when I find one of these things, I'm like, oh my god.
他，他想到了我。
He's he thought about me.
他爱我。
He loves me.
他把那个放在那里，知道我会发现，天哪。
He stuck that in there knowing I would find oh my god.
他是我最喜欢的人。
He's my favorite person.
我没意识到你有时留在我桌上的便条是受我的便条启发的。
I didn't realize that the notes you sometimes leave on my own desk were inspired by my notes.
那很酷。
That's cool.
当然，这招管用了。
Of course, it worked.
明白了。
Got it.
我回来的时候，那些感觉真好。
Those feel so good when I come back.
你刚把一张塞进了信用卡卡套里，我好像从来没发现过。
You just tucked one in to the credit card thing that I don't think I've ever found.
天哪。
Holy cow.
我在想这个在这里面放了多久了。
I wonder how long this has been in here.
这好像是你在某个Omni酒店度假村拿的，我猜。
This is from an Omni hotel and resort somewhere that you were, I guess.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我爱你。
I love you.
那正好在信用卡的小卡槽里。
That was right in the little credit card slot.
我从来没见过那个。
I've never even seen that one.
那是老款了。
That's an old one.
我都不记得上次去Omni是什么时候了。
I can't remember the last time we were at an Omni.
所以，那确实是老款了。
So, it is an old one.
哇。
Wow.
你用花来做那个。
You do that with flowers.
你什么意思？
What do you mean?
对我来说。
For me.
你真的喜欢花吗？
Do you even like flowers?
我喜欢。解释一下我做了什么，这样我就知道你是……
I do Explain what I do so I know that you're
更多的花，但我主要是喜欢它们，因为我可以从你对花的爱中感受到那种间接的快乐。
more flowers, but I mostly love them because I get to live vicariously through the love you have for flowers.
而且这有点……
And it's a little
那解释一下我做了什么，这样大家都能学走。
So explain what I do so that everybody can steal this.
嗯，你就是那么喜欢花，你趁我不在的时候来我办公室，放一朵小花，选你当天最喜欢的那朵，插进一个小花瓶或者随便你怎么摆，就放在我桌上，然后我回来就看到你。
Well, you just have such a love of flowers, and you come into my office when I'm not there, and you put one little flower, whichever your favorite of the day is, and slide it into a tiny little vase or however you like to present it, and you leave it right on my desk, and then I come back and there's you.
其实不是花的问题，我只是看到你。
It's not even the flower, I just see you.
而且有意思的是，这也是你成为我最喜欢的人的原因之一，不只是因为花，还有我们第一次见面的时候。
And it's funny because that's another thing that makes you my favorite person, not just the flower, but when we first met.
还有
Also
让我想哭。
makes me cry.
第一次约会，走在人行道上。
First date, walking down the sidewalk.
纽约市。
New York City.
晚饭后我们正聊着天，我甚至不记得我们在聊什么，然后你就跑了起来。
We're in mid conversation after dinner, I can't even remember what we were talking about, and you took off running.
我当时想，这女人到底在干什么？
And I thought, What the hell is this woman doing?
当我追上你时，你手心里有一片心形的叶子。
When I caught up to you, you've got a leaf in the palm of your hand shaped like a heart.
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我觉得那好像是丝兰树。
It was a yucca tree, I think.
银杏树。
Ginkgo tree.
哦，银杏树。
Oh, ginkgo tree.
你看，我根本不知道发生了什么。
See, I don't even know what's happening.
你高兴得跳起来，就像冰淇淋车刚来了一样。
And you were jumping for joy as if the good humor truck just showed up.
你那么兴奋，因为那片心形叶子和那棵树，还有那是你最喜欢的。
Like, you were so excited about this heart shaped leaf and this tree and how it was your favorite.
我的意思是，你身上那种真实感和那种对生活的热爱，真是没得说。
I mean, talk about authenticity and sort of that joie de vie that I felt from you.
所以当你把一朵小花放在我桌上时，那让我立刻想起你对花的热爱，也让我觉得我是你的最爱。
So when you put a little tiny flower on my desk, that brings me right back to your own love affair with flowers, but makes me feel like I'm your favorite.
太棒了。
Amazing.
我们不是应该休息一下什么的吗？
Aren't we supposed to take a break or something?
对，确实。
Actually, yes.
我刚才太投入了，都忘了这回事。
I was just so kind of in the moment with you that I forgot about that part.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
好的。
Alright.
别走开。
Don't go anywhere.
我们回来后会继续分享这三十年婚姻中的更多经验。
When we come back, we're gonna share more of these lessons from thirty years of marriage.
接下来的内容你肯定不想错过。
You're not gonna wanna miss the next one.
而且我相信你心里一定在想某个人。
And I'm sure there's somebody that you're thinking about.
这次对话是一份特别的礼物，我希望你能和你爱的人分享。
This conversation is an extraordinary gift that I hope you will share with the people in your life that you love.
别走开，因为我们接下来要聊的内容你一定会喜欢。
And don't go anywhere because you're gonna love what we will be digging into next.
请继续收听。
Stay with us.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
我是你们的朋友梅尔。
It's your friend, Mel.
还有克里斯。
And Chris.
克里斯，
Chris,
谢谢你邀请我。
thanks for having me.
你答应来，我特别高兴。
I'm so thrilled you said yes.
我们要分享我们三十年婚姻中的三个教训。
We are unpacking three lessons from our thirty year marriage.
今年是我们结婚三十周年，这三个教训是我们刚认识时希望有人能告诉我们的。
We're celebrating thirty years this year, and these are three lessons we wish somebody would have shared with us when we first met.
那会不一样。
Would have made a difference.
好，我们直接继续吧。
Well, let's just jump right back in.
所以，这是第一个教训。
So, that's the first lesson.
你是我最喜欢的人，而这是你可以开始应用的两种简单方法。
You're my favorite person, and those are two simple ways that you can start to apply it.
这就引出了第二个教训。
And that brings me to the second lesson.
第二个教训真的很重要，因为我们多年来学到的很多，或者我应该说是我多年来学到的，就是柔和有多重要。
And the second lesson is really relevant because a lot of what we've learned over the years, or I should just say I've learned over the years, is how important softening is.
所以，你听到世界知名的关系专家谈论善良、好奇心和开放的心态。
So, you hear the relationship experts that are world renowned talk about kindness and curiosity and having an open heart.
很多时候，当你处于生活的忙碌中，你会想，当这个人现在让我烦得要命的时候，我到底该怎么做？
And oftentimes when you're in the thick of life, it's like, Well, how the hell do you do that when this person's freaking pissing me off right now?
对我来说，我认为我们的婚姻比以往任何时候都更牢固，我比以往任何时候都更深地爱着你，其中一个原因就是我学会了柔和的重要性，并且记住了我嫁的那个人。
And for me, one of the reasons why I think our marriage is stronger than ever, I love you more deeply than ever, is that I have learned the importance of softening and remembering the person I married.
这就到了第二个教训。
And this comes to the second lesson.
如果你想让你的关系持久、有意义且紧密相连，永远记住，你嫁的不是站在你面前的这个成年人。
If you want your relationship to go the distance and be meaningful and deeply connected, always remember you did not marry the adult who is standing in front of you.
你嫁的是那个人八岁时的样子。
You married the eight year old version of that person.
而且你小时候有一部分自己，从来没有真正得到过那种……我连专业术语是什么都不知道。
And there are pieces of you as a little kid that never got the real, I don't even know what the technical term is.
就是说，你身上有些部分，比如你躲到角落里去，是因为你小时候就是这么做的。
That there are parts of you like the reason you run into the corner is because that's what you did as a kid.
你总是沉浸在自己的思绪里，也是因为你小时候就是这样。
The reason why you go into your head is because that's what you did as a kid.
克里斯，你之所以不开口要自己需要的东西，是因为你像很多人一样，在一个大家庭里长大，是最小的孩子，家里事情很多，你的需求根本没人管，或者有人在乎但没人听。
The reason why you don't ask for what you need, Chris, is because you grew up like a lot of people did in a family as the youngest with a lot going on where it didn't matter what your needs were because people didn't care or they cared but they didn't listen.
所以，你干脆就不说话了。
And so, you just stop talking.
所以，当我看到你五十七岁的样子，我很容易就生你的气，心想：这男人是个成年人了。
And it's easy for me to get mad at you when I look at the 57 year old version of you and be like, The man's a grown ass adult.
他为什么还这样？
Why is he acting like this?
他为什么不直接告诉我他为什么……他为什么不停下来，说，好吧，等等。
Why doesn't he just tell me what he Why is he not stop and go, Okay, hold on.
这是我最喜欢的人。
This is my favorite person.
我面对的不是一个57岁的人。
And I'm not dealing with a 57.
我面对的是他内心那个充满恨的部分。
I'm dealing with the part of him that's hate.
就像你面对的是我内心那个小女孩一样。
Just like you're dealing with the part of me that is a little girl.
这真的很重要，因为从专家那里学到的，还有从我们自己的治疗中学到的——我们俩跟治疗师合作五年了——其中很重要的一点是，这能让你变得柔软。
And this is really important because one of the things that I've learned from the experts and what I've learned from our own like therapy, you and I have been working with a therapist for five years that what's very important about this is it softens you.
因为我觉得很容易就会想，那个人真糟糕。
Because I think it's easy to be like, that person is awful.
然后你就会开始变得特别爱评判。
And you start to get super judgy.
而且因为这个世界会让你变得坚硬，你不想把世界让你变硬的那一面带进关系里。
And because the world can make you hard, you don't want the way the world hardens you to be the part of you that you bring into the relationships.
而且我发现，当我想到我了解你的本质时，如果你和一个人在一起一年，你就知道他们的本质是什么。
And I find that the moment that I think about the fact that I know who you are at your core, if you've been with somebody for a year, you knew who they are at their core.
而且当你能记住，大多数人并不是故意想伤害你，或者故意想让你怨恨他们，或者故意想惹你生气。
And when you can remember that most people aren't intentionally trying to hurt you or intentionally trying to make you resent them or intentionally trying to piss you off.
他们只是在我们生活的这个艰难世界里尽力而为。
They're just doing the best that they can in a very difficult world that we live in.
而且我通过想到你有时候会害怕这一点，真的能够变得柔软下来。
And I've really been able to soften by thinking about the fact that there are times that you get scared.
有时候你会不知所措。
There are times that you're overwhelmed.
有时候你不知道该要什么。
There are times that you don't know what to ask for.
而且这帮助我真正停止那么爱评判、生气和怨恨，当你没有完全按我想要的去做，或者没有按我想要的方式表现时，而是稍微放慢一点节奏。
And it's helped me really stop being so freaking judgy and angry and resentful when you're not doing exactly what I want you to do or behaving how I want you to behave and just slow the roll a little bit.
因为你和我一直在纠结一个事情，就是那位世界知名的夫妻治疗师特里·里尔谈到的。
Because you and I have struggled with something that the world renowned couples therapist, Terry Real, talks about.
他上过梅尔·罗宾斯的播客。
He came on the Mel Robbins podcast.
我知道你对特里很熟。
I know you know Terry very well.
他谈到了一些事情，让人感觉，哇。
And he talked about something that was like, Woah.
他有个术语。
He has this term.
克里斯，看看这个是不是让你有共鸣。
Let's see if this rings a bell, Chris.
正常婚姻中的厌恶感。
Normal marital hatred.
来听听特里·里尔在梅尔·罗宾斯播客上谈正常婚姻中的厌恶感。
Let's hear, Terry Real on the Mel Robbins podcast talking about normal marital hatred.
正常的婚姻仇恨。
Normal marital hatred.
正常的婚姻仇恨。
Normal marital hatred.
正常的婚姻仇恨。
Normal marital hatred.
打一架。
Fight.
天哪。
God.
我得告诉你，我在世界各地讲“正常的婚姻仇恨”这个话题，讲了四次，从来没有人到后台问我：“你这话是什么意思？”
And I gotta tell you, I've been around the world talking about normal marital hatred for four not once has anyone come backstage and said, what what do you mean by that?
我喜欢说，我们嫁给了自己未完成的事业。
I like to say, we all marry our unfinished business.
哇。
Woah.
等等。
Hold on.
我们都嫁给了自己未完成的事？
We all marry our unfinished business?
没错。
You got it.
你知道吗？
You know what?
年轻的梅尔本可以找一个什么都听她话的男人。
Young Mel could have had a guy that would have done everything she wanted him to do.
我保证，你以前约会过的那些人里，有些人是不会让你经历这种危机的。
I guarantee you there are guys you dated who you would not have gone through this crisis with.
他们根本没入你的眼。
They did not blip on your screen.
我把这称为婚姻的神秘感。
I call this the mysticism of marriage.
婚姻的神秘感？
The mysticism of marriage?
对。
Yes.
我们有机会治愈内心最深的创伤。
We have the opportunity to heal our deepest wounds.
陷入爱情不是意味着，哦，对，这个人会给我这些。
Not falling in love means, oh, yeah, this person's gonna give it to me.
我会被治愈。
I'm gonna be healed.
他们会给我所有我未曾拥有的一切。
They're gonna give me everything I didn't get.
祝你好运。
Good luck.
一段真正的关系，我想说，是当你意识到你的伴侣，用我的话来说，就是被精心设计来把燃烧的长矛直插进你眼球的。
A real relationship comes, I like to say, when you realize your partner is, here's my quote, exquisitely designed to stick the burning spear right into your eyeball.
这就是危机。
That's the crisis.
这不是一段糟糕的关系。
That's not a bad relationship.
这是一段真实的关系。
That's a real relationship.
问题是，接下来怎么办？
The question is, now what?
你打算只是重复老一套吗？
Are you just gonna repeat the same old same old?
那就是地狱。
That's hell.
还是你打算醒过来，做点不一样的事？
Or are you gonna wake up and do something different?
如果你允许，危机可以让你觉醒，但你必须自己去做。
The crisis can wake you up if you allow it, but you have to do it.
所以，有很多原因导致我们醒不过来，怎么醒过来，以及如果我们真的保持清醒，那接下来到底该怎么办？
And so there's a lot that goes into why we don't wake up, how to wake up, and if we do stay awake, what the hell do we do then?
未完成的事情是什么意思？
What does unfinished business mean?
那是因为，因为这是真的。
That what does because because it's true.
你交往的那个人，总有办法让你心烦意乱，惹你生气，把你气得要命。
The person that you're in a relationship with has an uncanny way to get under your skin, piss you off, frustrate the hell out of you.
你爱他们，但有时候又恨不得杀了他们。
You love them, but you wanna kill them at times.
肯定想改变他们。
Definitely wanna change them.
但对我们来说，未完成的事情到底意味着什么？
But what does unfinished business mean exactly for us?
这意味着你现在正好陷入了你选中的那个家伙本该永远不会让你陷入的童年创伤之中。
It means that you are now exactly in the childhood wound that that son of a gun that you picked was supposed to never put you in.
你被彻底背叛了。
You have been fundamentally betrayed.
你回到了过去。
You are back.
你才四岁。
You're four.
你和你那疯狂的家人在一起，结果发现你的伴侣和你爸一样混乱。
You're with your crazy family, and your partner is just as chaotic, it turns out, as your dad was.
你的伴侣和你妈一样会背叛人。
Your partner is just as betraying as your mom was.
不管那个创伤是什么，突然之间就摆在你面前，而这并不是你当初想要的。
Whatever the wound is, all of a sudden, it's in your face, and that's not what you signed up for.
你恨死那个混蛋了。
And you hate that son of a gun.
克里斯，当你听到“正常的婚姻仇恨”时，你想到的是什么？
When you hear normal marital hatred, what comes to mind, Chris?
开车的时候你坐在副驾驶，低着头，不知道在忙什么，一声不吭，感觉就像——或者说，我感觉你虽然离我只有两英尺，却像在千里之外。
Driving down the road with you in the passenger seat, head down, doing whatever you're doing, silent, feeling like, or I should say, I'm feeling like you are a million miles away, even though you're two feet from me.
特里说得太对了，因为我觉得人们常说，你要么娶了妈妈，要么嫁了爸爸，大概是这个意思。
And that's so on point what Terry is saying, because I think they say, you either marry your mother or your father or something to that effect.
我很多痛苦都源于父亲在身体和情感上的缺席，我觉得这确实是我们最艰难时期的症结所在，因为我们俩都在害怕，都在拼命做自己的事。
And a lot of my struggle was the physical and emotional absence of my dad that really, I think, was at the crux of our hardest times because we were both running scared, trying to do what we were doing Millions
欠着几百万的债。
of dollars in debt.
就像室友一样，经济压力，所有这些让我们各自躲在自己的角落里，这只会加剧我所经历的那种感觉，就是你经常在身体和情感上缺席。
Like roommates, financial pain, all of these things that had us be in our separate corners, which only exacerbated what I experienced, which was a lot of physical and emotional absence from you.
所以，是的，那就是刺痛眼睛的尖棍子，或者随便怎么说。
So, yeah, that's the sharp poker in the eye or what have you.
感觉就是这样。
That's how it felt.
我想好好深入探讨一下这个，因为我觉得这是很多人都会有的感受。
I wanna just really unpack this because I think it's a very common thing that people feel.
当事情变得困难时，你会对你最喜欢的人发脾气，然后立刻感觉到关系中的变化，开始感到距离。
When things get hard, you turn on the person that was your favorite person, and you immediately feel that shift in a relationship, and you start to feel the distance.
然后你们都躲进自己的角落，结果，至少对我来说，当你们停止交谈，沉默寡言，退缩时，我感到孤独。
And then you both go into your corners, and what ends up happening, at least for me, is when you stop talking and you're silent and withdrawn, I feel alone.
这真的让我感到不安全。
And it really makes me feel unsafe.
然后我生气，因为你没有把一切都解决好。
And then I get mad that you're not just fixing everything.
这就是问题变得严重的地方，直到你和我开始和心理咨询师合作之前，我从未想过这一点，而特里提出了“正常婚姻中的仇恨”这个说法。
And that's where it goes way deep, and it never occurred to me until you and I started working with a therapist, and Terry put those words normal marital hatred out there.
我以前从未听过这个，直到我真正理解他在说什么，我开始意识到，等等，当我感到害怕时，通常是因为你也感到害怕。
I'd never heard that before that I really understood what he was talking about and I started to realize, wait a minute, when I get scared it's typically because you're also scared.
而我那个八岁的内在小孩会感到焦虑、愤怒和孤独，你可能也有同样的感觉，但我开始飞速运转，而你只是变得沉默。
And my little eight year old version gets anxious and angry and feels alone and yours probably feels the same way, but I start going a million miles an hour and you just get quiet.
那时你就能识别出这不是某个人故意做的，也不是某个人在针对你。
And that's when you can identify it not as something somebody's doing intentionally, not as something that somebody's out to get you.
这些小事不断累积，才造成了这么大的距离和隔阂。
This is the compounding effect of all of these smaller moments that creates this massive distance and disconnection.
这就是你可以着手去解决的地方。
That's where you can go to work.
对我帮助最大的就是，我意识到我嫁的是你年轻时的样子。
And what's really helped me is basically going, I married like the younger version of you.
你对自己还有些未了的心结。
You have unfinished business with yourself.
我对自己也有未了的心结，如果我们这样看待问题，就有机会一起努力，互相帮助，把那些心结解开，彼此更加支持。
I have unfinished business with myself, and we have an opportunity when we come at it that way to work together to help each other finish that business and be more supportive of one another.
你想说什么？
What do you want to say?
我只是充满感激，我们在一起三十年，能一起走过这些，而不是选择放弃。
Just feeling a whole lot of gratitude that we've had thirty years together to move through it versus throw in the towel.
克里斯，现在是个休息的好时机，不仅是为了给赞助商机会说几句话，我也得去趟洗手间。
Chris, this feels like a good place to take a break, not only so that we can give our sponsors a chance to share some words, but I need to go to the bathroom.
我还有很多话想跟你聊，而且我得去上个厕所。
So I have so much more I wanna talk to you about, and I need to have a bathroom break.
而且你也得听听我们那些超棒的赞助商。
And I you also need to listen to our amazing sponsors.
你需要去上个厕所吗？
Do you need a bathroom break?
当然需要。
Always.
我们还有很多内容要跟大家分享。
We've got a lot more to share with you.
别走开。
Don't go anywhere.
我们马上回来。
We'll be right back.
嘿。
Hey.
欢迎回到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Welcome back to the Mel Robbins podcast.
那是我的丈夫克里斯·罗宾斯。
That's Chris Robbins, my husband.
我们正在庆祝结婚三十周年，我们有三件事想和你们分享，真希望我们当初认识彼此时就知道这些。
We are celebrating thirty years of marriage, and we have three things that we're sharing with you that we wish we would have known when we met each other.
我们直接继续吧。
Let's just jump right back into it.
好，开始吧。
Let's do it.
如果正在听的人，先说说正在听的人，如果你正在和像你那样会沉默的人谈恋爱，你会给那个人什么建议？
If the person listening let's start with the person listening who is in a relationship with somebody who shuts down like you do.
当伴侣沉默不语、不沟通时，你希望他们知道什么？
What would your advice be to that person about what you want them to know when a partner is shutting down and not communicating.
因为我正好相反。
Because I'm the opposite.
我会生气、发泄、情绪失控，然后变成混蛋，接着道歉，然后陷入这个循环，之后感到越来越孤独。
I get angry and vent and get flooded, and then I'm a jerk, and then I apologize and then I get in that cycle and I then feel more and more alone.
而且我知道这只会让你更加封闭。
And I know that it just shuts you down more.
你有没有花点时间注意一下自己的感受？
Do you even take a moment to notice how you're feeling?
没有。
No.
嗯，
Well,
我那时候没有。
I didn't back then.
如果我有，如果我多年来只是简单地在车道上停一下，深呼吸，然后说，好的，记住梅尔，克里斯是你最喜欢的人。
If I did, if I had simply for many years paused in the driveway and taken a deep breath and said, Okay, remember Mel, Chris is your favorite person.
现在生活很艰难，但你们俩会一起度过这个难关的。
Life is hard right now, but you two are gonna get through this together.
现在互相支持，试着对彼此好一点，关心、体贴、对彼此好奇，这样你们俩更有可能一起度过难关。
And supporting each other right now and trying to be kind to each other and caring and considerate and curious of one another is gonna make it way more likely that you two can get through this together.
不要让这个世界、压力和那些非常真实的压垮感，压垮你们的婚姻、你们的关系，以及你们站在一起的力量。
Do not let the world and the stress and the overwhelm that is very real overwhelm your marriage and your relationship and the power of the two of you standing together.
所以他是你最喜欢的人。
So he's your favorite person.
克里斯是你最喜欢的人。
Chris is your favorite person.
他可能和你一样害怕。
He's probably just as scared as you are.
他可能和你一样有压力。
He's probably just as stressed as you are.
深呼吸，走进那扇门，你可以累，但仍然可以保持友善。
Take a deep breath and walk in that door, and you can be tired and still be kind.
我觉得这很美，说得也很好，但对我们大多数人来说，说起来容易做起来难。
I mean, that's beautiful and beautifully said and easier said than done for most of us.
我说，真希望我做到了。
I said, wish I did it.
我不是说我
I didn't say I
做到了。
did it.
所以
So
我其实没有一个简洁的答案来回答“什么”
I don't I don't really have a succinct answer to What
你希望别人知道什么？
do you want somebody to know?
比如说，现在有人在听，他们一直觉得，哇，我嫁/娶了一个不爱说话的人。
Let's say somebody's listening right now, and they've always thought, wow, I'm just married to somebody who doesn't talk.
我嫁/娶了一个爱思考的人。
I'm just married to a thinker.
我嫁的这个人，就是那种不太会表达自己感受的人。
I'm just married to somebody who, like, doesn't really talk about how they feel.
我觉得你刚才说的特别重要的一点是，表面安静的人，内心其实有着非常非常深的感情。
What I think is very important about what you're talking about is that somebody who's quiet on the surface is still feeling deep, deep, deep emotion.
那你平时是怎么帮助你的伴侣的？
And how do you help your partner?
因为我以前常问你，你在想什么？
Because I used to say to you, what are you thinking?
你脑子里在想什么？
What's going on up there?
你在想什么呢？
What are you thinking about?
克里斯，你心里在想什么？
What's on your mind, Chris?
但你总是会转移话题。
And you would still deflect.
可能是因为你不想在准备敞开心扉的时候被我吼吧。
Probably because you didn't want me to yell at you if you were about to open up about something.
但是，我是说，也许有那么一段时间我什么都不想说。
But, I mean, maybe there was a period there where I didn't wanna say anything.
但我觉得归根结底，是的，那里面有深沉的思考。
But I think it gets back to, yes, there was deep thought in there.
这不算什么好答案，因为当时做起来并不容易。
And this is not a great answer because it's not easy to do in the moment.
但理解为什么，比如说在我沉默的时候，你知道，那是什么？
But understanding why it is that, let's say in the instance where I'm being quiet, you know, what is that?
比如，对我来说，那源于哪里？
Like, where does, what's the origin of that for me?
而这就是我做了很多功课的地方，去认识到我错过了什么或者想要什么。
And that's where I think there was a lot of work that I did to recognize what I was missing or what I wanted.
而且，你知道，很多时候，我想我的一个顿悟是，在那些艰难、我们像无头苍蝇一样乱转的岁月里，我们很少能聚在一起真正地好好谈一谈。
And, you know, a lot of the time, I think one of my light bulbs was, you know, in those, in those years where it was tough and we were running around like chickens, it was rare that we would come together and actually have a powwow.
其实，我们唯一一次这么做，就是需要核对日程表的时候。我以前还挺不屑的，因为记得小时候看父母这么做，心里想这太傻了。
In fact, the only time we did it was when we needed to go over our calendars, which I used to kind of scoff at because I remember watching my parents do that when I was a kid and thinking that is so stupid.
结果到了星期天晚上，我们自己也开始这么做了。
And then here we were on Sunday night trying to do that for ourselves.
虽然我不太喜欢这样，但正是这件事把我们拉到了一起。
And as much as I didn't like that, that's what was pulling us together.
对我来说，那是个很棒的瞬间，因为那是一种尝试去亲近、去对齐、去沟通。
That was a great moment for me because there was an attempt to be close, to be aligned, to be in communication.
我拿这个当例子，就像在说，哦，我缺的就是这种连接，不只是沟通，甚至只是肢体接触。我小时候很少有这样的接触。
And I use that as example, it's one of those things that was like, Oh, this is what's missing for me is that connection and not just communication, but as even just touch, like I didn't grow up with a lot of touch.
所以我花了三四十年才意识到，就像你伸出手来握住我的手，或者把手放在我肩膀上，那种简单的亲密举动，对我来说就是世界上最棒的事。
And so it took me whatever thirty, forty years to realize just like you reaching out and holding my hand or putting your hand on my shoulder, or that, that simple act of intimacy was like the greatest thing in the world for me.
这需要一点时间，至少对我来说是这样，才意识到这就是我需要的。
And it takes a little bit, at least it did for me to recognize that this is what I need.
这就是我想要的。
This is what I want.
其中一部分可能来自于我们一起经历的挣扎、破裂，甚至突破，以及我们一起做的一些事情。
And some of that may have come in the form of the struggles and the breakdowns and even the breakthroughs and some of the work that we've done together.
但再说一次，为什么这听起来不像一个很好的答案，是因为其中一部分是时间和认知，能够停下来放慢一点，甚至去识别情绪或感受，这就是为什么我问你，你觉得呢？
But again, the reason why it doesn't sound like a great answer is because some of it is time and recognition of being able to stop and slow down a little bit to even recognize the emotion or the feeling, which is why I asked you, do you think that?
因为你是一个典型的“先做后想”的人。
Cause you are very ready, fire, aim kind of person.
是的。
Yes.
而我绝对更像“先想好，再瞄准，再想一下，然后再行动”的人。
And I am definitely more like ready, aim, okay, aim again, then fire.
是的。
Yes.
我觉得有很多东西我真的想深入探讨，因为这把我们带到了第三个教训。
I think there's a lot that I want to really dig into there because it kind of brings us to the third lesson.
你用了“简单的亲密”这个词。
You used the word simple intimacy.
我们吃过很多苦头才学到一件事，那就是当我们关系处于一个真正紧密相连、彼此支持、生活也感觉可控的阶段，我觉得你是我最喜欢的人，而我也确实那样对你的时候，有些东西是非常明显和实在的。
And one of the things that we have learned the hard way is that when we are in a chapter in our relationship where we're really connected and we feel supportive of each other and life feels manageable and I feel like you are my favorite person and I'm also treating you that way, there's something that is very obvious and present.
那就是一周里那些简单的连接点。
And it is simple points of connection throughout a week.
你提到日历，因为我从没想过你会为这个哭，但我理解你为什么会哭。
And you mentioned the calendar because this is something I never expected you to cry over, but I understand why you did.
因为如果你认真想想为什么会爱上一个人，那不仅是因为这个人让你感到安全，让你觉得可以做自己，你不需要妥协自己的价值观或本性。
Because if you really think about why you fall in love with somebody, it's because not only does this person make you feel safe and make you feel like the version of you that you can be yourself, You don't have to compromise your values or who you are.
他们能激发出你最好的一面。
They bring out the best in you.
而且还有一件很奇妙的事，就是在一开始，你们有那么多共同的目标和梦想。
But there's also this incredible thing that in the beginning you have all these shared goals and dreams.
你们有愿景。
You have a vision.
你们对自己的人生会如何发展有自己的设想。
You have a way you think your life is going to turn out.
而且在一段关系刚开始的时候，你们会花很多时间讨论要做什么、这周末干什么，还会见朋友，这些每周的连接点就像脚手架一样，提醒你这段关系为什么重要。
And there's a lot of time spent about what are we gonna do and what are we doing this weekend and you see your friends and there's this scaffolding and these points of connection every week in the beginning of a relationship that remind you of why this relationship matters.
有了这些连接点，两个人就能感觉像一个人。
And why, two, can feel like, one, when you have these points of connection.
说到日历，不管你们是年轻父母还是刚搬到一起住，生活总是会被各种琐事压得喘不过气来。
And the thing about a calendar, whether you're young parents or you've just moved in together, is that life does trample you with logistics.
现在更糟了，有短信、社交媒体、Slack、Monday、工作、邮件、手机等等这些东西。
And it's way worse today with texting and social and Slack and Monday and work and email and cell phones and all that stuff.
就像，那些像潮水一样把你从伴侣身边冲走的输入，简直是无穷无尽的。
Like, the volume of input that can act like a tidal wave to wash you away from your partner is endless.
所以，周日晚上的日历会议，虽然不是世界上最性感的事情，但它能把你们拉在一起，让你们朝着共同的愿景对齐。
And so, a calendar meeting on a Sunday night, not the sexiest thing in the world, brings you together and gets you aligned against a shared vision.
这就是为什么它很重要。
That's why that matters.
克里斯，我注意到在我们关系特别好的那些阶段，总有一些东西是始终存在的，而且这些并不复杂。
And there are a couple things that are always present, Chris, I notice in the periods of our life where things are really good and this is not complicated stuff.
第一，我们开日历会议，因为我的一个委屈的妥协是觉得，你知道，一切都靠我，或者，你知道，我没要求帮助什么的，而那是你可以开始问，这周你需要什么支持吗？
Number one, we do the calendar meeting because one of my resentful accommodations is feeling like, you know, it's all up to me or, you know, I didn't ask for help or whatever and that's a moment where you can start to ask, is there something that you need for support?
这周你有什么需要的吗？
Is there something you need this week?
你知道你上周很忙，我记得我说过让我来负责所有的晚餐。
You know you had a huge week last week and I remember saying let me take all the dinners.
让我用那种方式支持你。
Let me support you that way.
你绝不会走过来对我说，嘿，我这周很忙，你能负责晚餐吗？
Now you would never have come up to me and said, hey I have a big week, Could you do dinners?
但是那次日历会议让我们提醒自己，我们是一起的。
But that calendar meeting allowed us to remind ourselves we're in this together.
你需要什么帮助？
And what help do you need?
你总是问我，这周我能帮你做些什么？
And you always ask me, What can I do to help you this week?
你需要什么？
What do you need?
我注意到的第二件事是，我们有几个早晨会去散步。
The second thing that I noticed is present is we take a walk a couple mornings.
不是每周七天，但我们可能会沿着我们住的那座山的后山小径走一走。
Not seven days a week, but we might walk up the back loop up the mountain we live on.
我们可能会带着狗沿着车道走走，但实际上我们每周会抽出两三次时间，就简单走一走。
We might go walk down the driveway with the dogs, but we actually two or three times a week we just get a short walk in.
另一件事是，我们会一起吃几顿饭，如果运气好，还会一起做饭。我们有个习惯，就是会聊聊一天中最高兴和最不开心的事。
Another thing that I notice is we have a couple meals together and if we're lucky we cook together and we have this ritual where we ask the high, the low of the day.
很多人都有类似的习惯，不管是叫“玫瑰、刺、花苞”还是什么的。
Lots of people have a version of this, whether it's rose, thorn, bud, or whatever.
这其实就是促使你多分享一些你期待的事情。
It just kind of prompts you to share more about what you're looking forward to.
最后一点，我觉得这真的很重要，因为我们有一段时间忽略了这一点。
And then the final thing, and I think this is really important because we neglected this for a while.
你们的关系不是孤立存在的。
Your relationship does not exist in a vacuum.
如果你把关系跟那些能巩固承诺、爱和支持的力量的结构隔离开来，这种孤立会开始侵蚀你们的连接，因为你会开始觉得这是你我对抗，这是我们对抗全世界，我整天就是工作然后回家，这就是我的全部生活。
And if you isolate your relationship from the structures that reinforce the power of being in a committed and loving and supportive relationship, that isolation starts to tear away at your connection because you start to feel like it's me against you, it's us against the world, all I do is work and then come home and that's my existence.
我们做过的一件事，我注意到在三十周年结婚纪念日时，我们没开派对，而是说，你们知道我们要做什么吗？
And one thing we have done that I noticed at remarkable distances for our thirtieth wedding anniversary instead of having a party, we said, you know what we're going to do?
我们要优先去见朋友。
We're going to prioritize seeing friends.
我们要优先去见那些三十年前参加我们婚礼的人。
And we're going to prioritize seeing people that, God, were in our wedding thirty years ago.
我们要优先去见那些一直在那里的其他夫妻、家庭或朋友，因为花时间，无论是跟家人、老朋友还是新朋友，花时间去做这些会强化回忆。
We're going to prioritize seeing other couples or other families or other friends that have been there because making time whether it's with family or old friends or new friends making time for that reinforces the memories.
这会强化你们共同建立的社交网络。
It reinforces the network that you've created together.
乐趣和连接是其中很重要的一部分，当我回想我们真的互相攻击的时候，我们并没有在做这些。
Fun and connection is such a huge part of it and when I look back at the times when we were really at each other's throats, we were not doing that.
我们当时很孤立。
We were isolated.
我们被自己的问题困住了。
We were barricaded with our problems.
我们互相攻击。
We were at each other.
我们把自己锁在各自的心里，我的愤怒。
We were locked away in your head, my anger.
而且，跳出日常节奏，进入一个有计划的循环，有期待的事情，这很有意义。
And there's something about getting out of your rhythm and into an intentional cycle of having plans to look ahead to it.
可以只是这周末和朋友一起做顿饭。
It could just be making dinner with friends this weekend.
也可以是去看现场演唱会，就像我们和一个两年没见的朋友那样做的。
It might be going to a live concert like we did with one of our friends that we hadn't seen these friends for two years.
我们想，为什么不和他们一起去看场演唱会呢，这也是我们三十周年结婚纪念日的一部分。
We're like why don't we go for a concert with them that's part of our thirtieth wedding anniversary.
对我来说，这带来了巨大的改变，而且它确实让我再次回想起我们刚认识的时候，那时整个未来都充满了无限可能。
And to me it's made a huge difference and it does something that really again takes me back to the beginning of when we met and when the whole future was just wide open.
当你和你的人在一起时，你会觉得我们有着共同的愿景，我们会一起实现它。
And you feel when you're with your person like we have a shared vision, and we're gonna do this together.
通过我们谈论的这三件事，你可以重新找到那种感觉。
And you can find your way back to it with these three things we're talking about.
那句话就是，你是我最喜欢的人。
That four words, you're my favorite person.
这一课是关于放软态度，并记住你是在和伴侣未完成的事情打交道。
This lesson around softening and remembering you are in a relationship with your partner's unfinished business.
只要把他们想象成八岁的小孩，你可能就不会对他们大喊大叫了，这样就有机会一起成长，而不是记仇，而是互相依靠，这就是机会。最后一点就是，真正去思考你们的关系是关系中的第三个人。
Just think about them as little eight year old and you probably won't scream at them and there's an opportunity to grow together instead of to hold grudges and to lean into each other that's the opportunity And then the final thing is just like really thinking about the fact that your relationship is a third person in the relationship.
比如，你和我，你对自己负责某些事情，我对自己负责某些事情，你负责支持我，我负责以某种方式支持你。
Like, it's you and you're responsible for certain things for yourself and me and I'm for certain things for myself, and you're responsible for supporting me, and I'm responsible for supporting you in ways.
但这段关系需要我们的关注。
But there is this relationship that needs our attention.
不然的话，这段关系就会走向终结。
Otherwise, it's going to die.
所以，那些能加强彼此默契的事情，比如一起期待未来、每周规划日程、互相问候，这周我能帮你做点什么？
And so those things that reinforce alignment, things to look forward to, planning the calendar every week, checking in, how can I help you this week?
你需要什么？
What do you need?
优先去见那些能巩固美好时光和回忆的朋友和家人，你知道的，就是那些一起经历过风风雨雨的人。
Prioritizing seeing friends and family that reinforce the good years and the memories and, you know, what you've all been through.
因为被提醒你曾经挺过来了，而且能走出困境，这真的很有价值。
Because there's so much value in being reminded that, yeah, you've been through things and you can come out the other side.
我想补充的一点是，要时刻意识到变化正在发生，因为在蜜月期，你不想有任何改变，也想象不到会有什么变化。
The only thing I would add to that is just the constant recognition of the changes that are occurring because in the honeymoon phase, you don't want anything to change and you don't imagine anything changing.
但现实是，变化总会发生。
And the reality is that change will occur.
而且，碰巧的是，我们很多人随着时间的推移都在寻求变化，但我们肯定无法预见到所有可能出现的模糊情况，无论是我们主动推动变化，还是变化强加在我们身上。
And coincidentally, many of us are seeking change over time, but we certainly can't anticipate all of the ambiguities that are going to pop up when these changes are occurring, whether we are forcing the change or they are being forced upon us.
我觉得，如果能在过程中停下来，承认这些变化，有时候它们会成为怨恨之类的来源，这样做会很有帮助。
And I think stopping and acknowledging those along the way as being sources sometimes of things like grudges and what have you can be helpful.
你知道吗，我在想，我们的女儿们经常会对我说，我真的很想找一个像爸爸那样的人。
You know, I'm thinking about the fact that our daughters will often say to me, I really, like, really wanna find someone like dad.
我真心希望我的婚姻能像你们一样。
I really hope I have a marriage that's like your guys.
天哪。
Oh, my gosh.
你知道我会怎么跟她们说吗？
And you know what I say to them?
我会说，首先，你们看到的这个57岁的男人，并不是我26岁时遇到的那个。
I say, first of all, the man you see at 57 is not the man I met at 26.
所以，我们经历了很多磨合，也积累了很多经验，成长了很多。
So, have been a lot of skill building, there have been a lot of water under the bridge, there's been a lot of growth.
我们的婚姻，刚开始的时候，并不是现在这个样子。
Our marriage, when we started, did not look like it looks today.
所以，如果你正处在那种状态，想着：这是对的人吗？
And so, if you're in that spot where you're like, is this my person?
还是不是对的人？
Is it not my person?
你觉得你能和现在的伴侣一起走过三十年吗？
Will I ever have the Do you think that you could spend thirty years with the person that you're in a relationship with?
在这三十年里，这个人愿意投入、愿意和你一起成长吗？
And over the course of thirty years, is this person the kind of person that's willing to lean in and work on it and grow with you?
从第一天起就很清楚，我们俩都对成长、学习和理解感兴趣，首先是了解自己。
That was clear from day one was our mutual interest in growth and learning and understanding, first and foremost of ourselves about ourselves.
但我们都想一起跳进那个池子里，这非常吸引人。
But the fact that we wanted to jump into that pool together was very, very attractive.
我觉得这就是你判断是否和对的人在一起的方式。
I think that's how you know you're with the right person.
你感觉能做自己。
You feel like yourself.
你们看到的是共同变老的愿景。
You see a shared vision of growing old together.
你们有共同的价值观，对生活的看法和追求有重叠的目标和梦想。
You share values and have some overlapping goals and dreams about the way you think about your life and the things you want out of your life.
而且你们都愿意努力，一起成长。
And you're both willing to lean in and grow together.
你们拥有这些。
You have that.
你们拥有生命中最珍贵的礼物之一。
You have one of the single greatest gifts that you will ever experience in life.
克里斯，你还有什么想说的吗？
Chris, is there anything else you wanted to say?
没有了。
No.
虽然听起来有点老套，但我就是很感激我们在一起三十年，尽管其中很多年都很艰难。
I mean, it sounds trite, but I just love the fact that we've had thirty years, even though lots of them were tough.
我很喜欢我们仍然在一起。
I love that we're still in it together.
我很喜欢我们花时间去学这些东西，给对方空间去学这些东西，我知道有时候这并不容易。
I love that we took the time to learn some of these things, to give each other the space to learn these things, which I know at times didn't come easy.
但我对咱们这三十年充满感激。
But I am feeling lots of gratitude for our thirty years.
嗯，我们确实一起成长了。
Well, we definitely grew together.
那是当然。
Majorly.
我还记得有些时候我会想，这只是一个瞬间。
And I do remember times where I'm like, this is just a moment.
这不是整个婚姻。
This is not the whole marriage.
这只是一个瞬间。
This is just a moment.
我们会挺过去的。
We will get through this.
一切都会好起来的。
Things will be better again.
不过，我真希望我们结婚时就能拥有今天分享的那三样东西。
And I really do wish, though, that the three things that we shared today, you and I had had going into this marriage.
而且我很感激我们继续往前走时手里有这些工具，因为我知道我们在庆祝三十年，但我今天一直在想这个。
And I'm grateful that we have these tools as we continue forward in it because I know we're celebrating thirty years, but I was thinking about it today.
我数学不太好。
I can't do math very well.
我在试着算这笔账，各位。
I'm trying to think of the math here, guys.
比如，如果我能活到一百岁，七十五岁会是什么时候？
Like, if I live to be one hundred years what would seventy five be?
所以，五十五岁就是再过四十五年。
So, five would be forty five more years.
天哪。
Oh, God.
那是一百零二岁？
That's one hundred and two?
不是。
No.
那还得再过二十年。
It'd be another twenty.
什么？
What?
不对。
No.
我们已经结婚三十年了。
We've been married thirty.
哦，哦，是说我们的婚姻里。
Oh, oh, in our marriage.
庆祝我们结婚七十五周年纪念日，那该多酷啊？
Wouldn't it be cool to celebrate our seventy fifth wedding anniversary?
人真的能活那么久吗？
Is it even possible to live that long?
那得多少岁啊？
How old is that?
我现在
I'm
50岁，我们还需要40年。
50 We'd 40 need five years.
哇。
Wow.
我还能和你一起度过四十五年？
Forty five years I could spend with you?
只要我不流口水，那当然好啦。
As long as I'm not drooling on myself, yeah, that'd be awesome.
你依然会是我最喜欢的人。
You'd still be my favorite person.
我对此表示怀疑。
I wonder about that.
哦，天哪。
Oh, God.
我希望能活到我们结婚七十五周年。
I would love to reach our seventy fifth wedding anniversary.
那我们就都102岁了。
That would put us at 102.
你觉得我们能活到那时候吗？
Do you think we can make it?
我觉得我们正在做所有正确的事情来确保能走到那一步。
I think we're doing all the right things to try to get there for sure.
好的。
Alright.
好，那咱们就把它记在日历上吧。
Well, let's put it in the calendar.
嗯，我只是想提醒你，在我们第二次约会的时候，我们宣布要结婚，我当时犹豫要不要说我想和你共度余生。
Well, I just want to remind you that on our second date, when we declared we were gonna marry each other, I hesitated to say that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with you.
我当时真的认真想了想。
I really thought about it in the moment.
就是，我该不该告诉她呢？
Like, should I tell her that?
因为我有那种感觉。
Because I'm feeling that.
我之所以有那种感觉，并且在第二次约会时说了那些话，是因为那一刻，我脑海里浮现出你和我，很老了，坐在一栋老房子前廊的两把摇椅上。
And the reason why I did feel that, and I said something on our second date, was because in that moment, I had a visual of you and I, very old, in two rocking chairs on the front porch of an old house.
那个画面突然出现在我脑海里，我就想，我真的很想和你一起坐在那两把摇椅上。
And that vision popped up in my head and I thought, I really do want to be in those rocking chairs together.
正是那个画面让我说出了，我想要那样。
And that's what compelled me to even say, I want that.
所以，是的，102岁，阿门。
So, yeah, amen to 102.
希望我们——让我们
Hope we're Let's
去创造它，克里斯·罗宾斯。
create it, Chris Robbins.
让我们去创造它。
Let's create it.
我非常高兴你能和我和克里斯在一起。
I am so happy that you were here with me and Chris.
感谢你抽出时间听这个。
Thank you for taking the time to listen to this.
感谢你观看这个。
Thank you for watching it.
比如，你不能和你正在交往的人一起听或看这段对话，而不觉得有必要进行更深入的对话。
Like, you cannot listen to or watch this conversation with the person you're in a relationship with and not feel compelled to have a deeper conversation.
根据克里斯分享的内容、我分享的内容、这些课程以及我们讨论的话题，我几乎能感觉到你在点头，就像在说‘那就是我，那就是我的伴侣’。
There's just no way based on what Chris shared, based on what I shared, based on these lessons, based on the topics that we covered that I'm sure I could almost feel you nodding along like that's me, that's my partner.
如果我们反复强调过一件事，那就是你无法解决不愿意谈论的问题，而且你永远无法处理你一直压抑的感受。
And if there's one thing that we kept coming back to over and over and that we've come back to is that you can't solve problems you're not willing to talk about, And you'll never process feelings that you keep bearing.
而且变得冷漠不会改善你们的关系。
And hardening isn't going to improve your relationship.
所以，如果你真的想和对方走到最后，你当然想，这就是你在听的原因，为什么不软化一点呢？
So, if you really do want to go the distance with one another, and of course you do, that's why you're listening, why not soften?
为什么不试着找回你爱上的那个人呢？
Why not find your way back to this person that you fell in love with?
我们在这里告诉你，因为我们经历过地狱又回来了，这绝对是可能的。
And we are here to tell you because we've been through hell and back, it is absolutely possible.
我们分享的这些简单课程和我们使用的一些简单工具帮助我们做到了这一点。
And these simple lessons that we shared and some of the simple tools that we've used have helped us do that.
如果别人告诉你这些，我想作为朋友告诉你，我爱你，我相信克里斯也爱你。
And in case someone else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you, and I'm sure Chris loves you too.
我们相信你有能力创造更好的生活。
And we believe in your ability to create a better life.
而让生活更美好的一部分，就是更充实的人际关系。
And part of what makes for a much better life is more fulfilling relationships.
我知道我们分享的内容会给你工具去创造这些。
And I know that what we shared with you will give you the tools to create them.
好了。
Alright.
我们下一集见。
I'll see you in the very next episode.
你一按下播放键，我就欢迎你。
I'm gonna welcome you in the moment you hit play.
嗯，我要跟你分享的是，这一刻可能是
Well, the one thing that I will share with you is this moment is possibly
你一生都在等待的时刻？
What you've been waiting for all your life?
好吧，又没人给我做头发和化妆。
Well, once again, nobody did my hair and makeup.
所以
So
我自己做的。
I did my own.
我，我
I'm I
可以帮你做。
could do yours.
我可以给你点粉。
I could give you some powder.
通常，我才是那个没耐心的人。
Normally, I'm the one that's impatient.
我准备好了，兄弟。
I'm ready, man.
我一直在准备。
I have been prepping.
把麦克风靠近嘴巴。
Put your put your mic up to your mouth.
好的。
Alright.
我们回到正题。
Let's go back to the thing.
那可以当作花絮。
That can be a blooper.
哦，还有一件事。
Oh, and one more thing.
不，这不是花絮。
And no, this is not a blooper.
这是法律用语。
This is the legal language.
你知道，律师写的东西和我需要念给你们听的。
You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you.
这个播客仅供教育和娱乐目的。
This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes.
我只是你的朋友。
I'm just your friend.
我不是持牌治疗师，这个播客也不能替代医生、专业教练、心理治疗师或其他合格专业人士的建议。
I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.
明白了吗？
Got it?
好。
Good.
我们下集见。
I'll see you in the next episode.
SiriusXM播客。
SiriusXM Podcast.
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