这样做提升新陈代谢、减脂并即刻改善健康状态——与William Li博士一起

嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。准备好了吗？很好。因为今天你要见到的人上次在梅尔·罗宾斯播客上大受欢迎。我们当时在讨论燃烧脂肪和减肥的话题。

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Are you ready? Good. Because the person that you're about to meet today was so popular the last time he appeared on the Mel Robbins podcast. We were talking about burning fat and weight loss.

让我告诉你，我的收件箱被你们挤爆了，大家都渴望从他那里获得更多惊人的研究成果。现在，世界著名的威廉·李医生回来了，他将为我们解析新陈代谢的科学。无论你是想减肥、燃脂、变得更健康，还是试图管理某种疾病，李医生——

Well, let me tell you something. You crashed my inbox begging for more incredible research from him. So now, the world renowned Doctor. William Lee is back to unpack the science of metabolism. Whether you're looking to lose weight, burn fat, or just be healthier, or maybe you're trying to manage a medical condition, Doctor.

李医生此刻就在我们波士顿的演播室里，他将告诉你所有你需要掌握的健康知识和激活新陈代谢的方法。他还会揭穿关于新陈代谢的四大迷思——那些你深信不疑却完全错误的观念。我也曾相信这些，但今天谈话结束后，我震惊得合不拢嘴。

Lee is here in our Boston studios and he has everything that you need to know to take control of your health and jumpstart your metabolism. He's also going to address the four major myths about metabolism. These are things that you believe that are just not true. I believe them too. And after this conversation today, my jaw on the floor.

李医生拥有科学依据、研究成果和简单步骤，能帮助你释放新陈代谢的潜力。是的，你可以改善它；是的，你能获得更多能量；甚至通过今天学到的研究，连你也能拥有更快的新陈代谢。

Doctor. Lee has the science, the research and the simple steps to help you unlock the power of your metabolism. Yes, you can make it better. Yes, you can feel more energized. And yes, even you can have a faster metabolism using the research you're going to learn today.

嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯。你的到来让我充满激情，你从我的声音就能听出来。能与你共度时光总是我的荣幸。如果你是第一次收听，请允许我欢迎你加入梅尔·罗宾斯播客大家庭。

Hey, it's your friend Mel Robbins. I'm so fired up that you're here. You can hear it in my voice. Now, it's always an honor to be able to spend some time with you and to be together. And if you're brand new, just I want to take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

既然你点开了这期节目，我知道你是这样的人：珍惜时间，渴望学习改善生活、提升健康的方法，并希望为你所爱之人带来改变。今天这场对话中的信息，每个你在乎的人都应该听听。所以我要提前感谢你的分享和聆听，因为这期节目将改变你对健康的认知，更重要的是，它将赋予你改善健康的能力。今天，我们将与杰出的威廉·李医生一起深入探索新陈代谢的科学。

And because you hit play on this episode, here's what I know about you. You're the type of person who values your time and you're also interested in learning about ways that you can improve your life, you can improve your health, and you can improve the life of those people that you love and care about. And this is one of those conversations that has information that every single person that you care about needs to hear. So, I want to thank you in advance for sharing this and for taking the time to listen to this because this episode is going to change how you think about your health and more importantly, it's going to empower you to make some changes that improve your health. And today, we're going to dive headfirst into the science of metabolism with the extraordinary Doctor.

在进入精彩的科学内容前，我想先介绍一下非凡的威廉·李医生。李医生是世界知名的医师和科学家，也是波士顿血管新生基金会的创始人兼主席。他已培训超过40,000名医生，致力于研究食物如何帮助治疗和预防疾病。

William Lee. Now, before we jump into all the amazing science and the things you're about to learn, I just want to tell you a little bit about the incredible Doctor. William Lee. Doctor. Lee is a world renowned physician and scientist, and he's also the founder and president of the Angiogenesis Foundation here in Boston, where he's educated over 40,000 physicians and is working to provide cutting edge research on how food can help heal and prevent diseases.

李医生的研究成果已惠及全球超过5000万人，在癌症、肥胖、心脏病和糖尿病等疾病的预防、治疗甚至逆转方面取得突破。他在顶尖医学期刊和教科书上发表过100多篇论文，出版了两本畅销书，并曾在塔夫茨大学、达特茅斯学院和哈佛医学院任教。他能抽空来波士顿演播室与我们分享新陈代谢的奥秘，我无比激动。

Doctor. Lee's work has impacted more than 50,000,000 people worldwide and has led to the prevention, treatment and even reversal of diseases spanning cancer, obesity, heart disease and diabetes. He has over 100 scientific publications in leading medical journals and textbooks and has published two bestselling books. He's also served on the faculties at Tufts, Dartmouth, and Harvard Medical School. And I'm just thrilled that he found the time to come over here to our Boston studios and be able to share everything that he knows about metabolism with you and me.

现在请和我一起欢迎了不起的威廉·李医生来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。李医生，你的到来让我欣喜若狂。我想先请你告诉听众：如果他们认真践行你即将教授的新陈代谢科学，他们的生活会发生怎样的改变？

So please help me welcome the amazing Doctor. William Lee to the Mel Robbins podcast. Doctor. Lee, I'm so excited that you're here. And the way that I wanted to start is could you tell the person that's listening how they could experience life differently if they take to heart everything that you're about to teach us about the science of metabolism and they put that to use in their life today?

身体的新陈代谢就是你的能量源泉。若想获得更多活力，你需要激活与生俱来的代谢潜能。无论你处于健康旅程的哪个阶段，无论过去在减肥或健康方面经历过何种挣扎，每个人都能做到这一点。

Your body's metabolism is your energy source. And if you want more energy in your life, what you wanna do is tap into your what's already hardwired into you in order to be to unleash that energy. And everybody can do it no matter where you are in your health journey, no matter what type of struggles you've had previously in order to be able to lose, weight or and be able to achieve better health.

哇。好吧，我们大约三分之一的听众设定了减肥或开始新饮食的目标。我很想知道如何利用新陈代谢来变得更健康、体型更好。但新陈代谢到底是什么意思？因为可能你说的新陈代谢，我想的是另一回事。

Wow. Well, about a third of our listeners have set a goal to either lose weight or to start a new diet. And I would love to know how to leverage my metabolism to be healthier, to be in better shape. But what does metabolism mean? Because maybe when you say metabolism, I'm thinking something else.

让我们从这里开始。新陈代谢实际上是什么意思？

Let's start there. What does metabolism actually mean?

好的。如果你去谷歌搜索新陈代谢，他们会给你一个化学定义，一个科学定义。它是你体内所有化学反应的总和，等等等等，为你提供能量。我喜欢用更简单的方式来思考它。

Okay. So if you go to Google, when you look at metabolism, they'll give you a chemistry definition, a science definition of it. It's the sum of all the chemical reactions in your body, blah blah blah, to give you energy. I like to think about it in a much simpler way.

好的。

Okay.

新陈代谢就是你的身体如何获取和消耗能量，就像你是一辆车一样。明白吗？所以想想看。我是说，我们大多数人开过使用汽油的车。当你开车时，车依靠燃料前进，你只是坐在驾驶座上，想着如何从A点到B点。

Metabolism is how your body gets energy and burns down energy, just like if you were a car. Okay? So think about it. I mean, most of us, have driven a car that uses gas. And, you know, when you're driving a car, which relies on fuel to actually drive forward, you were just sitting in the driver's seat going about your way, thinking about how to get to point A to point B.

你不会想到燃料。这基本上就是我们新陈代谢的运作方式。我们只是继续做我们的事。我们有待办清单。我们要去购物。

You're not thinking about the fuel. And that's basically how we operate with our metabolism. We just keep going, doing our thing. We got the checklist. We got to go shopping.

我们要去学校接孩子或什么的。明白吗？我们不会想到新陈代谢。但就像一辆需要燃料的车，当油表接近空的时候，突然，如果你坐在车里，你会突然想，哪里能找到加油站？

We got to go pick up the kids from school or whatever. Okay? We don't think about our metabolism. But like a car, which requires fuel, when the fuel gauge goes towards empty, suddenly, if you're sitting in your car, all of a sudden you're like, where do I find that filling station?

对。

Right.

我得加点油。是的。明白吗？你的身体也是一样。当你的能量不足时，突然你就需要补充燃料。

I gotta get some gas. Yes. Okay? Same deal on your body. When your energy runs low, suddenly you gotta get fuel.

事实证明，我们用于汽车的燃料是汽油，取决于你住在哪里。如果你看看身体里发生了什么，我们身体的燃料就是食物。是的，我们称汽油为加仑或升，取决于你住在哪里，而食物是用卡路里来衡量的。所以很简单。

And it turns out the fuel that we use for a car, which is gasoline, petrol, depending on where you live. If you actually look at what happens in the body, the fuel for our body is our food. Yeah. We call gasoline in gallons or liters, depending on where you live, food that measures in calories. So it's very simple.

当我们进食时，实际上是在给身体补充燃料。明白吗？我们称之为卡路里。别被‘卡路里’这个词搞糊涂了，人们对它有很多误解。

When we eat food, we're actually putting in fuel into our bodies. All right? And we call them calories. Don't get confused about the word calorie. There's a lot of misunderstanding about that.

它就是燃料。就像给汽车加油，你开到加油站，取出油枪，往油箱里加满燃料。加满后油枪会‘咔哒’一声。

It's just fuel. Now, in the car, you're putting pull by the filling station. You're taking out the nozzle. You're filling up the tank in your car with fuel. It fills up to the top and now it goes click.

然后就不会再出油了。谢天谢地。

And now no more fuel will come out. Thank goodness.

是啊。

Yep.

你把油枪放回加油机，回到车里。这时候你根本不会再去想燃料的事了。

And you put the nozzle back on the pump, get back in your car. Now you're not even thinking about the fuel anymore.

没错。

Right.

你继续上路。对。我们的身体也是同样道理。我们坐下来，发现燃料快耗尽了。

You're on your way. Yep. In our body, the same deal. We sit down. We're looking for Fuel's running low.

身体会提醒：去找些燃料。于是我们坐到餐桌前，去餐厅，或者点外卖。

Our body says, go find some fuel. We sit, go to the dinner table. Right. Go to a restaurant. Go get delivery, food delivery.

或者站在冰箱前打开门，拉开抽屉把手伸向薯片——就像我上次那样。

Or stand in front of the fridge and open it up or pull out the drawer and put your hand on the chips with me last That's

这是你的选择，而这非常重要。让我告诉你，这就是扰乱新陈代谢的方式。你刚才说的正是关键——当你需要燃料时，你可以做出选择。明白吗？

your choice, and this matters. This matters a lot. And let me tell you, this is how you derail your metabolism. So this is actually the unlock, what you just said, is about the choice that you can make when you need fuel. All right?

你可以给身体注入优质燃料，也可以是劣质燃料。想象一下，当你开车到加油站，面对三四种不同品质的汽油选择。大多数人会告诉你：往油箱里加最好的油。没错。

You can put good quality fuel into your body or poor quality fuel. So think about it. Pull your car up to the filling station, and you got a choice of three or four different kinds of gasoline you're gonna put into your fuel tank. Now, most of people will tell you, put the best quality fuel you can into the tank. Yep.

但你知道，有时候我们手头紧——比如这个月我有点缺钱。这时候你会怎么做？你会选择加些便宜油凑合。

But, you know, all of us, you know, I'm running a little low on cash this month. And so what do you do? You go out and, like, I'm gonna put some of that cheap stuff in there.

确实。

Right.

但关键在于：偶尔加一箱廉价汽油，你可能察觉不出差别。但如果每次加油都选择劣质油，日复一日、周复一周、月复一月，我敢保证你的车绝对比不上那些坚持加优质油的车——不仅性能会变差，使用寿命也会缩短。更何况，选择优质油的人往往也更注重车辆的整体保养。

You know what? You you fill up your car with a tank full of cheap gas once in a while. You're not going to know the difference. But if you do that every single time you go fill up your tank day in and day out, week after week, month after month, I guarantee you, your car is not going to run as well or as long as somebody who really takes care of their car by putting higher quality fuel into their car. And by the way, beyond the quality of the fuel, that person who's choosing making that choice is probably also taking better care of their car in general.

我们的身体也是同样道理。当需要补充能量时，我们选择食物就像选择汽油。如果长期为身体选择优质燃料，最终你会获得更健康的体魄。

And that's exactly what happens to our body. When we're actually needing fuel, we go for food, we reach for choice, just like at the fuel tank. And what we'll know is that if you actually choose higher quality fuel for your body, it's actually going to be a lot better for you in the long run.

李医生，关于新陈代谢这个话题，最常见的误解是什么？

Doctor. Lee, what are the misconceptions when it comes to the topic of metabolism?

很高兴你邀请我来破除迷思，因为减肥和新陈代谢领域充斥着太多谬论。虽然人们自以为很懂新陈代谢，但其实存在许多需要澄清的误区——比如我们常听到的说法：每个人的新陈代谢都不同。

Well, I love the fact that you are inviting me to MythBust because there's so much myth when it comes to weight loss and metabolism. And everyone thinks they know a lot about metabolism, but there are a lot of myths about it that everyone needs to find out because we've all heard of them. Right? Yeah. So you basically say, well, everyone's metabolism is different.

比如有人说这全靠运气——我姐姐瘦得像竹竿却怎么吃都不胖，而我却要终身与体重斗争，必须严格控制饮食。这就是典型误区之一。

Yes. It's the roll of the dice. My sister's skinny as a stick and she can't eat anything, and I've been fighting with with weight my whole life, and I have to be careful with food. That's one myth, or one idea.

等等，让我打断一下...

Well, hold on. Let me just stop you right

好的。

there. Yeah.

李医生，所以你是说，并非每个人的新陈代谢都不同，这不是真的吗？

So are you saying, Doctor. Lee, that it's not true that everybody's metabolism Not true. Is What?

不是真的。我们出生时新陈代谢都相同，因为新陈代谢就像电脑的操作系统。梅尔，如果你我去不同电脑店买同款笔记本，开箱充电启动时，操作系统会完全一样。

Not true. We're all born with the same metabolism because our metabolism is like the operating system of a computer. So, Mel, if you went to the computer store and I went to a different computer store, we bought the same model of laptop. Out of the box, plug it in, charge it up, start it. Operating system would be the same.

你会听到相同的启动声，屏幕以相同方式亮起。我们出生时也是如此——相同的肾脏、视力、大脑功能和舌头运动能力。凭什么认为新陈代谢会不同呢？

You hear the same sound, and then the screen would come on the same way. That's how we're born. We're born with the same kidneys, the same eyesight, the same brain function, the same ability to move our tongue. What makes us think metabolism is different?

呃，可能因为我总觉得有人新陈代谢快有人慢。这...这说法是真的吗？

Well, I guess because I've just always thought that some people have a metabolism that's faster and some people have metabolism that's slower. And is I mean, is that true?

不真实。让我们根据某项研究来剖析这个迷思。这是第一个谬误。

It's not true. So let's come back and talk about that myth based on a research study that was done. So that's one myth.

好吧。

Okay.

第二个迷思是：当青少年成长期间狼吞虎咽两三顿晚餐还精力过剩时，人们认为他们青春期新陈代谢飙升。对吧？因为他们不断进食，充满能量。这也是谬误。

The second myth is that when you've got teenagers and they are growing up and they're eating two or three dinners and bouncing off the walls, you're thinking that in their adolescence, their metabolism is going sky high. Yes. Right? Because they're feeding themselves, they're packed with energy. That's also a myth.

并非事实。

Not true.

开玩笑吧？我记得青春期时我妈常说'趁现在多吃汉堡，年纪大了就没这口福了'，我对孩子也这么说。这不对吗？

You're kidding. I remember my mom saying to me when I was a teenager, oh, you better enjoy that, you know, hamburger now because it's gonna not be, you know, you're not gonna be able to eat like that when you get older. I've said that to my kids. That's not true?

不对。第三个迷思：我们都认为人到中年（40、50岁及以上）新陈代谢必然减缓。我们恐惧这个人生阶段，总觉得'完了，这些衣服再也穿不下了'。

Not true. Third thing, that's a myth. We all think that when we reach middle age, 40, 50, and beyond, our metabolism is going to automatically slow down. And we all dread that kind of portion of our lives where we're saying, you know what? I'm not going to fit in these clothes anymore.

我只是需要习惯它。你看看别人就会想，他们肯定正步入中年。然后你就开始有种放弃与身体旧有关系的心态。是啊，你会觉得自己的新陈代谢现在完蛋了。

I just got to get used to it. You look at other people and you go, well, they must be entering their middle age. And you sort of just have this culture of like giving up with your former body relationship. Yeah. And you're like, my metabolism's shot now.

我会发胖的，再也穿不下以前的衣服了——这也是个误区。第四个误区是认为新陈代谢变慢导致我们体脂增加。

I'm gonna gain weight. I'm not gonna fit into the clothes anymore. Also a myth. Fourth myth is that when our metabolism is slow, that that's why we gain body fat.

好吧。

Okay.

不是这样的。

Not true.

那我们为什么会增加体脂呢？

Then why do we gain body fat?

体脂增加有各种原因，但真相其实是体脂会减缓新陈代谢，而不是新陈代谢慢导致体脂增加。

Different reasons why we gain body fat, but it turns out the truth is that it's our body fat that slows our metabolism, not the other way around.

天啊。好吧，我想确认下自己是否理解对了——你开门见山说的第一点是：我们出生时新陈代谢的运作方式都相同。

Oh my god. Okay. So I just wanna make sure that I am digesting, no pun intended, the things that you've come right out of the gate and said, which is we're all born with a metabolism that works the same way.

没错。

Yep.

那种认为有人天生代谢快或慢、且无法改变的说法是错的。年轻时代谢快、年老时代谢慢这个说法也是错的。我的天！那你今天要教我们什么？我现在满脑子都是：老兄，怎么才能让我的代谢火力全开？

That the idea that some people have a fast or a slow metabolism and that's just what you got and that's what you're stuck with is not true. The fact that your metabolism is faster when you're younger and slower when you're older, also not true. Holy cow. And what are you going to teach us today? Because I'm assuming like now I'm like, dude, how do I get my metabolism to get cranking?

好的，我们来讲讲这个。因为对于观看节目的观众来说，知道这些突破性发现能赋予你们力量很重要。关键在于：我们出生时新陈代谢就像电脑操作系统一样，已经固化在身体里了。

Alright. So let's go at this because I think that, you know, for the people who are listening and watching this, you know, it's good to know that the breakthroughs actually give you power. And here's what it is: We are all born with our metabolism hardwired in our body, just like an operating system of your computer.

好的。

Okay.

我们的新陈代谢从出生那一刻起就以完全相同的方式运作。

Our metabolism, we come out of the womb exactly packaged to work in exactly the same way.

好的。

Okay.

是之后发生的事开始改变它。但杜克大学的赫尔曼·庞泽几年前联合90位研究者完成了一项最新研究——这是项大型研究，是人类有史以来规模最大、覆盖全生命周期的新陈代谢研究。

It is what happens afterwards that starts to change. But a recent study that was done a couple of years ago by Herman Ponzer at Duke University that he collaborated with 90 other researchers. This is a big research study. It was the largest study of human metabolism across the entire lifespan ever done. K.

仅通过一杯水就完成了这项研究。

And it was done with just a drink of water.

这是什么意思？

What does that mean?

他试图通过观察两天大的婴儿...

Well, what he was trying to do is to figure out if you take a look at people from two days old

嗯。

K.

从新生儿到90岁老人，人类新陈代谢呈现何种面貌？又如何随生命进程变化？他如何用统一方法研究所有人？这项研究覆盖20个国家、90位研究者、6000名从两天大到90岁的受试者。

Newborn to 90 years old, what does your metabolism look like? And how does it change over the course of your life? So how did he study everybody in exactly the same way? This was across 20 different countries. 90 researchers, 20 countries, 6,000 people from two days old to 90 years old.

这是新陈代谢领域有史以来最宏大的里程碑式研究。

The most ambitious landmark study in metabolism ever.

K。

K.

好的。这就是我们如何确认那些传说实际上只是传说的依据。

Okay. This is how we know that those myths are actually myths.

好吧。但他怎么用一杯水来测量呢？李博士，你比我聪明多了，得给我解释清楚。

Okay. But how did he measure it with a glass of water? Like, you're way smarter than me, doctor Lee, so you gotta explain this to me.

我来告诉你。众所周知，水是H₂O。H代表氢，O代表氧。

I'll tell you. So now water, most people know, is H2O. Right? The H is a hydrogen. The O is the oxygen.

研究人员所做的就是调整氢和氧的组成，这样当你喝水后，通过测量呼吸、血液、尿液和汗液，就能精确计算出实际代谢率。明白吗？这种简易代谢测量法应用于20个国家6000人终生追踪研究。最初得到的结果看起来完全符合那个传说——每个人的代谢率差异巨大。

And what the researchers were able to do is to tweak the hydrogen and tweak the oxygen so that when you drank the water, you could measure the breath, the blood, the urine, the sweat, and you can actually calculate what the metabolism actually was. All right? Simple way of actually measuring metabolism applied across 20 countries in 6,000 people across the lifespan. So when they actually got the results of this study, initially, it looked exactly like the myth. Everybody's metabolism was all over the map.

这在我预料之中。

Which I would expect.

确实如你所料。

Which you would have expected.

对。

Right.

但我们现在处于机器学习和人工智能时代，可以用计算机深度挖掘数据。

But we now live in the era of machine learning, artificial intelligence. Like, we can use computers, to really crank data.

明白了。

Okay.

于是他们做了这样的尝试：提出假设——如果通过根据个体体型调整新陈代谢数据来修正代谢研究结果，实现个性化分析会怎样。

So here's what they did. They said, I wonder if we corrected the results of the study of metabolism by adjusting the metabolism to what the individual's body size is, personalizing it.

明白，按体重来调整。

Okay. So by mass.

没错。他们掌握了性别、身高和体重数据，实际上还能计算出个体有多少多余体脂，然后从代谢结果中剔除多余体脂的影响。

By mass. So they the gender, they knew the height, and they knew the body weight, and they could actually figure out, well, how much excess body fat did this individual have and subtract out from the results of metabolism the effect of excess body fat.

懂了。

Okay.

当他们对6000人进行多余体脂影响剔除后——梅尔，这就像首次揭开大卫雕像的遮布——发现人类新陈代谢一生仅经历四个阶段。

So when they did that, so 6,000 people subtract out the effect of excess body fat. I'll tell you, Mel, it was like pulling the cloak off the Statue of David for the first time. They discovered that human metabolism across a lifetime follows only four phases.

具体是哪四个？

Okay. What are they?

第一阶段始于出生。所有人起点相同：0-1岁期间，人类新陈代谢水平飙升，比成人代谢率高出50%。一岁婴儿的新陈代谢就像开了加力燃烧室。

We're all born in the phase one. We're all born the same way. Phase one is from day zero to one year old. Human metabolisms goes skyrockets higher, higher, higher, 50% higher than the adult level of a metabolism. So one year old is firing up their jets big time.

必须如此，因为他们需要快速成长。

Have to because they've got to grow fast.

完全正确。这提醒我们：必须慎重考虑婴儿第一年接触的所有物品——微塑料、牙胶、安抚奶嘴...

Totally. Okay. But I'll tell you what it tells us. It tells us whatever we're exposing them to in that first year of life, we better think about that. The microplastics, the whoobies, the pacifiers, the binkies.

我们往这个代谢引擎（喷气发动机般的）里塞了什么东西？第一阶段0-1岁，第二阶段1-20岁。

What are we putting into this metabolic engine, jet engine? Yeah. All right. So phase one is zero to one years old. Phase two is from one year old to 20 years old.

这正是青少年精力旺盛、能吃两三顿晚餐的时期，对吧？你可能会认为他们的新陈代谢在加快。但这项研究表明，从1岁到20岁，新陈代谢水平其实是持续下降、下降、下降，直至达到成人水平。明白吗？

This is that time where the teenagers are bouncing off the wall, eating two or three dinners. Right? And you would think that their metabolism is going up. But this research shows that between the ages of one year old and 20 years old, metabolism going down, down, down, down, down to adult levels. Okay?

所以青少年虽然体型在变大，但新陈代谢却在放缓。

So the teenager is getting bigger, but the metabolism is slowing down.

明白。

Okay.

现在要揭晓最颠覆性的发现了——在第三阶段，也就是20岁到60岁期间（就是你以为腰围会变粗、体重会增加的时期），研究发现：只要剔除多余体脂的影响，我们20至60岁的新陈代谢机制就像风平浪静时的海面一样稳定可靠。

Now, and this is the mic drop discovery. All right? So for anybody who's watching this, like, you're going to want to rewind and listen to this again. This research discovered between the third phase is between the age of 20 and 60, right the time when you think that your waistline is going to expand and you're going to gain all this weight. It turns out that when you remove the effect of excess body fat, our hardwiring for metabolism between the ages of 20 to 60 is rock solid, flat as an ocean on a calm day.

它根本不会改变。这意味着只要顺应身体本能，60岁时的代谢能力完全可以像20岁一样。稍后我会解释为什么现实中人们的体重体型会变化。而第四阶段即最后阶段是60到90岁——猜猜新陈代谢会怎样？

It does not change. And what that means is that the way that we're hardwired is that 60 can be the new 20 when it comes to your metabolism if you follow what your body wants to do. Now, I'm going come back to this because obviously people's weight changes and their size changes, but there's a reason for that. And the fourth phase, the final phase, is from 60 to 90 years old. Guess what happens to metabolism?

确实会开始轻微放缓。毕竟60到90岁了嘛，但也只下降17%。90岁时新陈代谢仅比60岁慢17%，而60岁本该和20岁一样稳定。

It does start to slow down a bit. I mean, come on. You deserve it, 60 to 90, but only by 17%. By the time you're 90 years old, your metabolism's only 17% slower than when it was at 60. And 60 should be rock solid at 20.

我想重复确认几个要点：第一阶段0-1岁代谢飙升；第二阶段1-20岁实际是下降至成人水平；第三阶段20-60岁，你将告诉我们影响代谢的因素。

I have a couple things though that I want to repeat back just to make sure that I understand this. So phase one, zero to one, through the roof. Phase two, one to 20. It's actually coming down to hit adult levels, which is what you're in from phase three, which is 20 to 60. And you're going to tell us the factors that can impact your metabolism.

但排除这些因素后，人体基础代谢就像同年龄段最健康的人那样高效运转。第四阶段60-90岁仅下降17%，意味着身体引擎依然强劲。我们现在是不是该先破除你刚才颠覆的认知误区，再探讨如何运用这项令人振奋的研究？因为你显然很激动。关于代谢科学，我们最需要理解什么？我觉得你传递的信息充满希望。

But if we remove those factors, your metabolism underneath the hood is hardwired to just work as well as the healthiest person you've ever seen your age. And then the fourth phase is 60 to 90 and it only comes down 17%, which basically means you're still cooking with a great engine. And I guess where I think maybe we should start as we start to unpack not only the myths you've just dropped a bomb on, but also how we unlock this exciting research because I can tell you're very excited about it. And what do we need to understand about just the science of metabolism? Because I think your message is really hopeful.

这非常鼓舞人心，因为研究本质上在提醒我们：身体本就是为燃烧脂肪和能量设计的。只要懂得科学原理，看待减肥与健康的关系就会完全不同，因为你能激活代谢潜能。

And it's very empowering because you're basically, through the research reminding all of us, listen, your body is designed to burn fat. Your body is designed to burn through fuel. If you understand the science, then you're going to look at the topic of losing weight for overall health in a very different way because you can tap into your metabolism.

没错。我们的新陈代谢就像笔记本电脑预装的操作系统，天生就设定好了运行机制。代谢系统既会储存能量到体脂中，也会燃烧能量支撑日常活动。

Yeah. So our metabolism is hardwired in our body just like in a laptop, You know, the operating system is hardwired out of the box. It's gonna be firing up. And our metabolism is designed to store energy, and it stores it into our body fat. And it burns energy just to allow us to do ordinary things.

你不必跑马拉松来消耗能量。我是说，那确实会消耗大量能量。但洗衣服、洗碗、爬楼梯、整理床铺，这些同样能消耗能量。明白吗？打电话也会消耗能量。

You don't have to run a marathon to burn energy. I mean, that'll burn a lot of energy. But doing the laundry, washing the dishes, walking up a bunch of steps, making the bed, that also burns energy. Okay. Talking on the phone burns energy.

滑动手指浏览社交媒体动态也会通过这种方式消耗能量。

Moving your fingers to scroll down your, social feed burns energy, by the

并不能消除内脏脂肪，你知道的，那种我们都不想要的脂肪。

not getting rid of the visceral fat that, you know, none of us really want.

没错。任何形式的运动实际上都会消耗一些能量。所以我希望人们明白，任何类型的运动都是良好的开端。顺便说，研究显示就连坐立不安的小动作——比如抖腿、不停敲打——也能消耗能量。对吧？

Right. So movement of any sort will actually burn some energy. So I'm trying to make sure people understand that any kind of movement is a good start. By the way, studies have actually shown that even fidgeting, you know, shaky the leg, tap, tap, tap. Alright?

这些动作确实能通过消耗能量来加速新陈代谢，但从燃烧效果来看，没有什么能替代真正的运动。因为当你需要燃烧燃料时，就像在高速公路上疾驰——你会更快消耗油箱里的燃料，而这些燃料其实就是储存在体脂中的能量。那么有哪些有效燃烧体脂的方式呢？散步三十分钟，人人都能做到。

Those actually rev up your metabolism as well by burning down some energy, but nothing substitutes from a burn perspective from actually really getting into motion. Because when you're burning down when you need fuel to burn, it's like driving really fast on the highway. You're gonna burn down your the fuel in your tank a little bit more, and that fuel is really the fat the the energy stored in body fat. So what are some of the great ways to actually burn down body fat? Going for a walk, you know, for thirty minutes, anybody can do.

如果可以的话去跑步——只要膝盖没问题，我会建议这么做。游泳是燃烧多余体脂的绝佳方式，对骨骼和肌肉压力较小。跳舞同样是燃烧体脂的好方法。所以你摄入食物的量、摄入燃料的质量，这是方程式的一边，而你可以控制这部分。

Going for a run, if you can do it, if your knees are good, I would I would consider doing that. Swimming, great way to actually burn down extra body fat. It doesn't put too much stress on your bones or your muscles. Dancing is a great way to actually burn body fat as well. So the amount you intake food, the quality of the fuel that you're actually putting into your body, the amount of fuel you're putting in your body is one side of the equation, and you can control that.

这是个极好的消息，因为只需稍微减少摄入，然后燃烧掉积累的燃料。现在有人说：你看我体型庞大，一直没能减掉这些脂肪。这不可能一蹴而就，知道为什么吗？你就像皮卡车长期拖着额外油箱，那些汽油罐你已积攒多年。

So that's super good news because, yeah, just cut down a little bit and then burning it, burning down the fuel that's been accumulated. Now some people say, well, look, I have a really big body, and and I haven't been able to lose this fat. It's not gonna happen overnight because guess what? You have been accumulating that extra those extra tanks on your pickup truck for a long time. Those extra cans of gasoline that you fuel, you've been piling up for a long time.

需要时间才能消耗殆尽，你必须保持耐心。所以当你看到'两周减重X磅'这类宣传时，即便能做到，也不可持续。你要追求的是持续、健康的脂肪燃烧。

It's gonna take some time to burn it down. You gotta be patient. So whenever you see these things like lose x number of pounds in two weeks or ten days, if you can do that, alright, it won't be sustainable. You're looking for sustainable, healthy fat burn.

说到这个话题，或许你可以解释下脂肪是什么。因为在文化语境中我们常讨论它，当它开始堆积时又会自我苛责。但作为医学博士、研究员和新陈代谢专家，脂肪究竟是什么？

You know, on this topic, it would probably be helpful if you could just explain what fat is. Because it's a like, I think it's something that we talk about in culture and then we get upset at ourselves over when it starts accumulating. But as a medical doctor and a researcher and an expert on metabolism, what is fat?

好的。脂肪是我们都认识却可能闻之色变的物质——人们总说'不要太多脂肪'，用餐时总想把它切掉搁在盘边。但我必须告诉你们，脂肪是人体最重要的组织之一。事实上，在你父亲精子与母亲卵子结合后数周，当你还只是个细胞团时，脂肪组织就形成了。

Alright. So fat is a substance that we all recognize and maybe recoil from hearing like, I don't want to don't do much fat. You know, you wanna cut it off on your plate and put it onto the side. But I can tell you fat is one of the most important tissues in your body. And in fact, it forms within weeks after your dad's sperm met your mom's egg and you were just a ball of cells.

你的脂肪在你拥有面孔、腰身和大腿之前就已形成。那时你的体脂正在生成。关于脂肪如何形成有个非常有趣的现象。最先形成的器官是血管，因为所有组织都需要血液供应。所以，那时你只是一团细胞，几天大，几周大的初期阶段。

Your fat formed before you had a face, before you had a waist, before you had thighs. You had body fat forming. And here's how it's really interesting about how fat forms. The first organ that forms are your blood vessels because everything needs a blood supply. So, again, you're just a ball of cells, few days old, a few starting to be a few weeks.

最先形成的器官是循环系统。第二个形成的器官是神经系统，因为每个器官都需要电力系统。想象建房子，你得从基础开始，对吧？

The first organ that forms is your circulation. Second organ that forms are your nerves because every organ needs an electrical system. Think about building a house. You got to start with the basics. Right?

没错。你需要循环系统，需要电力系统——也就是神经系统。第三种形成的组织是体脂，而体脂是沿着血管形成的。

Yeah. You need the circulation. You need an electrical system, a nervous system. Third tissue that forms, body fat. And body fat forms around the blood vessels.

明白吗？没有脸。没有手臂。没有大腿。懂了吗？

Okay? No face. There's no arms. There's no thigh. Okay?

也没有腰线。它像气泡膜一样包裹着血管。而你提出的正是关键问题：为什么脂肪在生命早期就沿着血管生长？因为脂肪最终会成为燃料箱，而你需要燃料箱紧邻燃料源。

There's no waistline. It forms around the blood vessels like bubble wrap does. And the question you ask is exactly the interesting question. Why does fat grow around blood vessels very early in life? Because fat winds up picking me in the the fuel tank, and you want the fuel tank to be near where the fuel is.

当你进食时，你摄入的是燃料。燃料进入血管。如何将血管中的燃料储存进这个燃料箱？它就紧挨着血管，这就是脂肪从一开始就以这种形态形成的原因。

When you eat food, you're eating fuel. The fuel goes into your blood vessels. And how do you store the fuel from your blood vessels into this fuel tank? It's right there, right next to the blood vessels. That's why the fat started forming very early on in that configuration.

哇。脂肪细胞和其他细胞一样吗？它们有何不同？

Wow. Are fat cells like all the other cells or how are they different?

它们能拉伸膨胀。会充满食物转化的能量。明白吗？能膨胀300%。

They can stretch and expand. They fill up with the energy from from food. Alright? They can expand 300%.

所以它们的体积能膨胀300%？

So they can expand 300% in size?

能膨胀到神经细胞的三倍大小。普通脂肪细胞肉眼不可见，显微镜下才能观测。但关键在于——这就是为什么当脂肪膨胀时，当你用燃料（即我们摄入的食物，也就是我们实际需要的能量）填充它时...想想看，我们的身体天生就会寻找燃料，通过进食将燃料存入体内，储存在我们的燃料箱——也就是脂肪里。

They can expand three times the nerve size. So a regular fat cell, you can't see with the naked eye. Under a microscope, you could see it. But I'm telling you, and this is why when fat expands, when you're loading it with fuel, which is the food that we eat, which is the energy that we actually need I mean, think about it. We our our body is designed to find fuel, put the fuel into our body by eating it, storing it, stores it in our fuel tank, which is our fat.

当你准备燃烧脂肪时，它会像汽车一样从燃料箱中提取燃料，通过引擎运转将其真正燃烧掉。这非常简单，这就是新陈代谢的本质。用这种方式理解非常直观。

And then when you're ready to burn the fat, it takes the fuel from the fuel tank, just like your car, and runs it through the engine so you can actually burn it down. It's very simple. That's what metabolism is. It's a very simple way to think about it.

这太不可思议了。我太爱听你讲话了。虽然有点不好意思说，但我不得不按下暂停键，让我们出色的赞助商说几句话。当您收听这些为我们免费带来威廉·李博士及其非凡见解的赞助商时，请把这份知识分享给您关心的人——我们每个人都值得让这项研究触手可及并改变生活。

That is unreal. I just love listening to you. And I almost hate to say this, but I got to hit the pause button and give our extraordinary sponsors a chance to say a few words. And while you're taking a listen to our amazing sponsors who are bringing you Doctor. William Lee and all this extraordinary information at zero cost, share this with people that you care about because we all deserve to have the benefit of this research at our fingertips and in our lives.

请别走开，我们还有更多精彩内容待探讨。短暂休息后我们将继续等待您。我是您的老朋友梅尔·罗宾斯，今天我们将继续向杰出的李博士学习如何通过科学研究提升新陈代谢。

And don't go anywhere because we got so much more to dig into, and we're going to be waiting for you after a very short break. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins. And today, you and I are getting to learn the science and the research around how we can boost our metabolism from the extraordinary Doctor.

威廉·李博士。李博士，此刻我想到了我的两个女儿——我知道她们不会介意我分享这个，因为我们在《放任他们理论》书中写过。您最先破除的迷思就是：无论体型胖瘦，每个人的新陈代谢机制本质相同，且都具有重新编程的潜力。

William Lee. So Doctor. Lee, I'm thinking about my two daughters. I know that my daughter will not be upset that I shared this because we wrote about it in the Let Them Theory book. And one of the first myths that you talked about is that underneath our body type and underneath how much fat we have or how little fat we have, everybody's metabolism works the same and everybody's metabolism is capable of rewiring.

当我女儿索耶听到这个观点时——她这辈子总看着妹妹抱怨：这不公平！你随便吃都不发胖，代谢快；而我代谢慢，减肥塑形特别难。对于那些同样心存怀疑的听众，他们可能在想：李博士，我不信这套，我明明看到有些人怎么吃都不胖...

And when somebody like my daughter Sawyer hears that and she for her entire lifetime has looked at her younger sister and been like, It's not fair. You can eat anything you want and you don't balloon. You have a very fast metabolism, I have a slow metabolism, I have a hard time losing weight and staying in shape. And so it just doesn't seem fair. If you could talk specifically to a person who's listening, who feels like my daughter does, who's like, Well, I don't believe you, Doctor.

您希望这些听众首先了解哪些科学依据？如果他们接受您关于重启代谢的理论，又将获得哪些可能性？

Lee. Because I see people with a fast metabolism. I see people that can just like, you know, eat whatever they want and just sheds right off their body. What do you want them, first of all, to know that the science says and what's possible for them if they embrace what you're sharing with us in understanding how to turn your metabolism back on?

首先最重要的是：不要和他人比较。要比较就和自己比，这才是健康减重的起点。想要战胜体脂...

Yeah. Well, first, the first and most important thing is don't compare yourself to other people. Okay? You're comparing yourself to yourself.

明白。

K.

...就必须从这里开始。

That's where healthy weight loss starts. So you wanna fight body fat.

确实。您说我们底层代谢机制都相同，但当我减肥困难时，我内心就会反驳：胡说！你懂我意思吧？这根本不成立。

It's true. And you said, we all have the same metabolism underneath it all. And if if I'm struggling, I basically go, bullshit. You know, like, you know what I'm saying? That's not true.

但你说这是可以自我激活的东西。

But you're saying it's something you can activate in yourself.

你需要真正回归身体的原生操作系统。

You wanna actually get back to your own body's operating system.

好的。

Okay.

明白吗？记得我那个比喻吗？就像刚拆封的电脑看起来很棒，运行流畅。但随时间推移，处理速度变慢，功能反应迟钝——都是长期积累的各种小问题导致的。

Okay? And remember that analogy I gave you, like, you know, out of the box, the computer looks really great and it works really well. And over time, you know, it slows down the the processing, the functions don't work quite as quickly. It's just accumulated all kinds of little things over time.

我有个问题：有哪些不为人知的新陈代谢减速器？比如我们都知道超重或垃圾食品会拖慢代谢，但还有哪些容易被忽视的隐藏因素？

Well, I've got a question for you. What are four things that slow down your metabolism that you may not know slow it down? Like, I think we all understand that if you're carrying a lot of extra weight or you're eating really crappy food, that that probably doesn't help. But are there other hidden things that that you may not be aware of that are actually slowing your metabolism down?

确实存在这类食物。比如酒精——很多人没意识到它的影响。真的吗？是的。

Yeah. Well, know, like, I mean, so I think that there are some actual food items that people consume that they don't realize that will do that. Alcohol is one of them. Really? Yeah.

酒精本质是碳水化合物。过量摄入会改变体内化学环境，干扰激素分泌，降低次日运动欲望。睡眠质量也会下降——虽然还没讨论睡眠与代谢的关系，但缺乏深度睡眠就无法进入真正的燃脂阶段。深度睡眠对最大化脂肪燃烧至关重要。

Because alcohol is, first of all, it's carbs. But when you have a lot of alcohol, it changes the chemistry in your body, affects your hormones, and makes you less eager to actually exercise the next day. You don't get as good enough quality sleep. We haven't talked about sleep and metabolism, but you don't actually get to that real fat burning part of sleep if you're not getting good quality sleep. You want deep sleep in order to be able to really burn as much fat as possible.

明白了。所以酒精和缺乏深度睡眠都会影响。

Gotcha. So alcohol and not getting a good night's sleep in terms of deep sleep.

这两者往往相辅相成。

Which kind of go hand in hand.

没错，而且这会拖累新陈代谢。

You're right. And that impacts your metabolism.

这会影响你的新陈代谢。不仅是酒精或空热量会让你增加体脂，现在它实际上还影响了你的行为。我认为有一点我们还没真正谈到，但很重要，记得我告诉过你研究显示20岁到60岁之间的第三阶段新陈代谢是稳定不变的，是一条平线，这是我们与生俱来的。但显然，四五十岁甚至六十多岁的人会发现，他们在增重，体型在变化。那么实际上发生了什么？

And that'll impact your metabolism. And not only the alcohols or the empty calories that will have you grow more body fat, but now it's actually affected your behavior as well. And, you know, one of the things that we haven't really touched on, I think it's important, is that remember I told you that the research shows that between the third phase of metabolism between age of 20 and 60 is rock solids, a flat line, and that's how we're hardwired. But obviously, people in their forties and fifties and even sixties, they see, you know, they're they're gaining weight, their body shape changes. And so what's actually happening there?

嗯，生活正在发生。明白吗？到了四五十岁，你生活中有太多事情，不太可能像二三十岁时那样有规律锻炼的时间。我们还没谈到压力，但当你压力过大时，你处于持续的'战斗或逃跑'模式，燃烧脂肪的效率就不如平时。

Well, life is happening there. Okay? By the time you're 40 and 50, you've you've got so much going on in your life that you're less likely to have the same time that you had when you were 20 or 30 to be able to exercise regularly. We didn't talk about stress yet, but when you're super stressed out, you're in a constant fight or flight mode, and you're not burning fat as efficiently as you could.

稍等一下。关于这点我想问个问题。这很有趣，因为很多上过节目的专家都谈到，约80%的人处于慢性压力状态。所以如果你正与焦虑或抑郁斗争，处于那种'战斗、逃跑或冻结'状态，这会影响新陈代谢吗？

Hold on a second. Let me ask you a question about that. That's really interesting because there's been a lot of experts that have come on the show that have talked about the fact that like eighty percent of people are stuck in a state of chronic stress. So if you're somebody that struggles with anxiety or depression and you're in that kind of fight, flight, or freeze, that impacts your metabolism?

是的，绝对会。短暂的'战斗或逃跑'反应，你的儿茶酚胺分泌，交感神经系统激活。懂吗？比如家里进了入侵者。砰。

Yeah, absolutely. So a small hit of fight or flight, your catecholamines, your sympathetic nervous system firing up. All right? Intruders in your house. Boom.

就像车祸。你会完全清醒。这种小冲击实际上会燃烧脂肪。对吧？因为你准备好抵御敌人或应对灾难。

You know, like car accident. Like, you're like totally awake. A little jolt like that actually will burn fat. Right? Because you're you're ready to you're ready to fend off the enemy or react to the disaster.

慢性压力下，压力激素持续偏高，会干扰身体燃烧脂肪的能力。所以抑郁、长期压力、创伤后应激障碍等都会干扰身体机能。这开始解释了为什么人到四五十岁（虽然不限于这个年龄段，但多数人处于中年阶段），我们面对太多事情：担心工作、

Chronic stress, where the hormones, stress hormones are continuously high, they interfere with your ability to burn down body fat. So people who are depressed, people who are chronically stressed, PTSD, all those kinds of things actually will interfere with that body. And this is starting to explain why when you get to that stage in your life, forties and fifties, okay, and it's not just exclusively there, but most of us, you know, is that middle age level. We're we're dealing with so much. You're worried about your employment.

担心老板、担心职位、担心战争、担心经济。还有气候呢？

You're worried about your boss. You're worried about your job. You're worried about the war. You're worried about the economy. And what about the climate?

孩子怎么办？房贷怎么办？这么多事情堆积，让你长期处于'战斗或逃跑'状态。所以我认为重置健康最有效的方法之一就是真正解决生活中的压力。人们总说自我关爱。

What about your kids? What about your mortgage? You know, like, so many things pile up that you're in a constant state of fight or flight. So this is why I think one of the most powerful things that you can do to reset your health is to really address the stress that you're your life. You know, people talk about self care.

我要说的是，如果你想看起来更好、感觉更好、活得更久，就解决那个压力。它是悄无声息剥夺我们燃脂能力的元凶。

I'm just telling you, like, if you wanna look better and feel better and you wanna live longer, address that stress. It's the silent thing that robs us of our ability to be able to burn down body fat.

哇。我觉得确实如此。我们有很多年轻听众，其中不少人正为生活成本挣扎，迷茫于人生方向，二十多岁时因朋友四散而感到孤独。这是很多人没停下来思考的重要问题。如果你一直减肥困难，又面临睡眠差、工作压力大、个人生活问题，或焦虑抑郁等困扰（像我过去会借酒减压），所有这些都在影响新陈代谢，让你难以减重。

Wow. Well, I think it's true. We have a lot of really young listeners and there's so many of them that are struggling with the cost of living and the sense of not knowing what they want to do with their life or hitting their twenties and feeling completely lost as their friends scatter and people move in different directions and loneliness. And I think that's a really important thing that a lot of us don't stop and think about. Like it makes sense that if you've been struggling to lose weight and you've got any one of those factors, you're not sleeping well, you got a lot of stress at work or something going on in your personal life, or you're struggling with any kind of issue like anxiety or depression or like I used to, you drink a little too much to take the edge off the stress, All of that's impacting your metabolism, which is what's making it hard to lose weight.

然后想想压力性进食。对吧？现在你压力山大。你

And then think about stress eating. Right? Now you're super stressed. You have

必须去那里吗？因为我在想，李医生，我需要一件好事。

to go there? Because I'm like, I need one good thing, doctor Lee.

所以我的意思是，所有这些因素共同作用

So what what I'm saying is that all these things conspire

是啊。如果我不喝酒，看在老天的份上，我就得靠暴饮暴食缓解压力。

Yeah. If I'm not drinking, I gotta stress eat for God's sake.

好的。这解释了为什么尽管我们天生在二十到六十岁间代谢稳定，但当生活变故袭来，这些因素渗透进生活后，要回归代谢基准线就更困难了——但并非不可能。

Okay. So this helps explain why even though we're hardwired to have a stable metabolism between twenty and sixty, when life happens to us and all these things start to penetrate our lives, it's harder to get back to that baseline of your metabolism, but it's possible.

李医生，你知道我欣赏你和这次谈话的哪一点吗？就是当人对自己的身体不满意，日常感觉不健康时，真的会怀疑自己出了问题。而这项研究让我充满力量——因为你能跳脱出来说：原来这些外部因素都说得通。既然它们合理影响着我的代谢，那体重减不下去、为此感到沮丧就都情有可原了。

You know what I love about you and this conversation, Doctor. Lee, is that I think when you're not happy in your body and you're not feeling healthy and good just day to day, you literally think there's something wrong with you. And this research I find to be very empowering because you can then look outside yourself and say, Oh, all of those factors make sense. And if those make sense and they're impacting my metabolism, it makes sense why this weight's not coming off. It makes sense why I feel down and discouraged about this.

反过来也成立：如果研究证实这些因素确实在损害代谢，而我们全盘接受你三十年研究验证的、帮助人们战胜疾病和减重的理论，那么你同时也为我们指明了一条重燃代谢活力的积极路径。李医生，现在正是完美暂停时刻。虽然还有大量内容待探讨，但我想让杰出赞助商说几句，也请听众朋友们分享给所爱之人。

And then the flip side becomes also true, which is if you see all of these things based on research are negatively impacting your metabolism, and we accept at face value everything that you've taught us, that your research of thirty years has shown and is helping people beat diseases and lose weight, you're also offering us a pathway to reactivate and rewire our metabolism in a very positive way. Doctor. Lee, this feels like the perfect moment to hit pause. I know we got a lot more to cover, but I want to our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words. And I also want to give you, as you're listening, a chance to share this with people that you love.

请别走开，广告回来后我们将与李博士深入探讨更多内容。我是你们的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯，

But don't go anywhere because there is so much more to dig into with Doctor. Lee when we return from a short break. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins.

欢迎回来。今天我们将与卓越的威廉·李博士共同探索新陈代谢与健康奥秘。李博士，告诉我一个关于体重增长的冷知识吧。

And today, you and I are learning all things metabolism and better health with the extraordinary Doctor. William Lee. Tell me something about weight gain, Doctor. Lee, that nobody would know.

好。体重增长并非始于腰间赘肉。明白吗？

Okay. Weight gain does not start with your muffin top. All right?

什么？

What?

或者你的大腿。体重增加最初是以非常微妙的方式开始的。这已经过临床研究验证。是内脏脂肪，我们体内看不见的脂肪。

Or your thighs. Weight gain starts with in a very subtle way. This has been studied with clinical research. It's the visceral fat, the fat that's inside our body. You can't see it.

这种脂肪早期就开始增长。当你摄入过多卡路里，超出身体燃料库容量时，最先增长的脂肪就在体内，你看不见。能猜到脂肪最初堆积在哪个部位吗？

That starts to grow early. So when you have too many calories and you overflow your fuel tank, the first fat that grows is inside your body. You can't see it. Can you guess where you start getting fat accumulating first?

呃，我在想我自己的身体

Well, I'm thinking about my own body

现在。

right now.

呃，我正想说，我有点像梨形身材。从奶油夹心蛋糕变成梨子那样。所以是臀部。

Well, I was gonna say, like, kind of I kind of grow like a like a pear. I go from a Twinkie to a pear. So the the rear end.

不是那里。所有人开始堆积脂肪的第一个部位是舌头。

It's not there. The first place anybody starts to gain body fat is in the tongue.

舌头？

The tongue?

没错。这很惊人，因为研究甚至针对瘦人进行。即使瘦人开始增重，第一个发胖的部位也是舌头。听着：人类舌头由三部分组成。

The tongue. Now this is amazing because it's been studied in in in skinny people, actually. Even skinny people start to gain weight, and the first place they gain it is in their tongue. So check this out. The human tongue is made of three parts.

舌尖像太阳马戏团的杂技演员灵活，舌中部肌肉发达力量十足，而舌根则是巨大的脂肪枕头——整整三分之一都是脂肪组织。

You got the tip of the tongue, which is like a Cirque du Soleil acrobat. You got the middle of the tongue, which is really strong, packed with muscle. Yep. And the back of the tongue is a big fat pillow, a pillow of fat. A third of it is all fat.

明白吗？就像你舌根处那些大理石般的脂肪，它们能让咀嚼过的食物顺利滑入胃里。懂吗？所以舌根主要由内脏脂肪构成。当你体重增加开始堆积多余脂肪时，舌根是最早发胖的部位之一。

Okay? Like, marbly fat in the back of your tongue to allow food that you've chewed up to slide all the way back down into your stomach. Okay? And so the back of your tongue is mostly visceral fat. And when you gain weight and start to grow extra body fat, one of the first places that it grows is in the back of your tongue.

好的。你舌头的后三分之一。你是怎么知道这个的？

Okay. The last third of your tongue. Now how do you how do you know this?

我正想问你呢。

I was just about to ask you.

怎么判断呢？如果你的同床伴侣开始说：嘿，你开始打呼了。明白吗？以前不打呼的，现在开始打了。

How do you know it is if your bed partner you're sleeping with starts to say, hey. You're starting to snore. Okay? You didn't snore before. You're starting to snore.

顺便说下，这是针对瘦子的研究。实际情况是，当你体重增加舌根脂肪堆积时，你就有了条肥舌头。懂吗？舌头变胖了。那么睡觉时会发生什么？

So this is, by the way, studying skinny people. What happens is that when you actually start to gain weight and body fat grows in the back of your tongue, you got a fat tongue. Alright? Your tongue's getting fatter. Now what happens when you're sleeping?

你全身放松，包括肥舌头也开始松弛。现在这条肥舌头开始阻塞气道。它堵住了呼吸道。于是你惊醒打鼾，这就是伴侣注意到的现象。斯堪的纳维亚对此做过研究，追踪正在增重的瘦子，试图找出最初发胖部位。

You're relaxing, including your fat tongue starts to relax. And now your fat tongue is occluding your airways. It's blocking your airway. So you wake up and you snort you start to snore, and you wake up, and this is what your bed partner notices. So this has been studied in Scandinavia with thin people who are gaining weight and trying to figure out where is it at at beginning.

而最明显的征兆就是打鼾，或是睡眠中突然惊醒——因为舌头是最先堆积脂肪的部位。

And the telltale sign is snoring or being startled when you're sleeping because the tongue is the first place to get fat.

哇。那这也意味着你的新陈代谢正在变慢。

Wow. And it's also then a sign that your metabolism is slowing down.

这是个警钟，提示你的身体机能可能真的开始减速了。

It's a it's a it's a warning bell that things might actually be slowing down for you.

那么根据你的临床经验和著作研究，对于那种'叮叮叮说的就是我'的人，你推荐哪些最有效的方法来重启新陈代谢？

So what are like the top things that you recommend in your practice and in the books that you write based on research that somebody that's like, ding, ding, ding, that's me. What do I do to jump start my metabolism?

第一件事是间歇性断食。

The first thing is intermittent fasting.

现在，你能解释一下这是什么吗？以防听众从未听说过或尝试过。

Now, can you explain what that is in case the person listening has never heard of it or done it?

断食指的就是你不进食。当你不吃东西时，身体实际上会切换到一种模式，开始燃烧多余的体脂。所以间歇性断食其实就是你周期性地不进食，就像你睡觉时发生的那样。睡觉时你不吃东西，不吃东西就是在断食。

Fasting means that you're not eating. And when you're not eating, your body will actually switch into a mode where it begins to burn down extra body fat. So intermittent fasting is really just when you are are not eating periodically, which is exactly what happens when you're sleeping. When you're sleeping, you're not eating. When you're not eating, you're fasting.

因为我们不会一直睡觉，大部分时间我们是清醒的，然后才去睡觉。这就是间歇性断食。这是最自然的减肥方式——实际上就在你睡觉的时候。没错，当你静止不动睡觉时，你正在消耗和燃烧脂肪。

And because we don't sleep all the time, you know, we we're awake most of the time, but then we go to sleep. That's intermittent fasting. It's the most natural way for you to lose weight is when you're actually asleep. And that's right. You're losing and burning fat when you're sleeping and not in motion.

太神奇了。

Amazing.

第二件事是真正动起来。我们现在处于一个工作型社会，大多数人久坐不动，尤其是年轻人整天坐着。站起来走动走动。我不是说要你去买台跑步机来锻炼。

Number two is actually get in motion. We are in a work society now. We're mostly sitting down, particularly younger people who are just sitting down all the time. Get up and walk around. I'm not talking about, you know, you don't have to get a treadmill to work on.

我经常看到那些设备。我只是建议出去享受新鲜空气，散步更好的是和朋友一起。这样还能获得社交联结，降低压力。这实际上也非常有帮助。我刚才提到了压力。

Like, I see that stuff all the time. I'm just saying go out and enjoy get some fresh air and enjoy walking around with a friend is even better. Now you get some social bonding, which lowers stress. That's actually really helpful as well. And I've mentioned stress.

减轻压力很重要。人类本能会关注所有困扰我们的事情。我建议人们通过思考一件让你真正快乐满足的事情来减压，专注于此。因为光是心理想象就能帮助降低压力。记住，压力实际上会干扰身体燃烧脂肪的能力。

Lowering stress is important. It's our human instinct to focus on all the things that bug us. I would encourage people to lower stress by thinking one thing that makes you really, really happy and content and focus on that. Because even just imagining that mentally can actually help to lower your stress. And remember, stress actually interferes with your body's ability to burn down fat.

第三件事是无论吃什么，别吃太多。好吗？退出'光盘俱乐部'。我们从小就被妈妈和食堂阿姨教育要把盘子吃得干干净净。知道吗？

Third thing is whatever you eat, don't eat too much. Alright? Quit the clean plate club. Now we all grew up, you know, with our moms and a lunch lady telling us you gotta clean up the whole plate. You know what?

不必全部吃完。只吃半盘完全没问题。别为此感到愧疚，因为如果你清空盘子，就是把所有多余的热量塞进身体，然后这些热量会常年累月堆积在你的躯体里。

Don't eat it all. You don't have to eat it all. If you eat only half the plate, that's totally fine. Alright? Don't feel guilty about that because if you clean that plate, you are loading all that extra energy calories into your body, and then you gotta carry it in your carcass all the years down the place.

所以干脆别放进去。这是最简单的方法。最后我想说的是，尽可能食用你能获取的最高品质的食物。

So don't even put it in. That's the easy way. And then finally, what I would say is eat the highest quality food that you can actually have.

李医生，如果要推荐三种能改善新陈代谢、帮助减肥的食物，您会建议添加哪三样？

If you could recommend three foods, doctor Lee, that somebody add that would improve their metabolism and help them lose weight, what would those three things be?

豆类。用特级初榨橄榄油健康烹饪，因为它们能滋养肠道微生物群——你体内390亿个'减肥教练'会帮你燃烧脂肪。明白吗？

Beans. Okay. Cook them in a healthy way with extra virgin olive oil because they actually feed your gut microbiome, which lets your bacteria have 39,000,000,000,000 trainers in your gut actually help you lose weight. Alright? Burn down body fat.

第二，番茄。生切、烹煮、煎炒、炙烤...番茄含有的番茄红素能有效燃烧有害体脂。

Number two, tomatoes. So many ways that you can make tomatoes absolutely delicious. Raw, sliced, cooked, sauteed, seared, so grilled. So many ways you can actually have tomatoes. Tomatoes actually contain lycopene that burn down harmful body fat.

第三个可能让人意外——洋葱。其中的槲皮素能激活棕色脂肪燃烧有害脂肪。如果觉得味道冲，可以焦糖化处理。

And then, you know, here's one that, you know, I think people might be surprised by, but onions. Turns out that onions have something called quercetin, and quercetin is a natural bioactive that fires up your brown fat to burn down extra harmful body fat. Now you might say, man, onion's a little too strong for me. Caramelize them. Okay?

用橄榄油。

In olive oil.

用特级初榨橄榄油。让洋葱天然甜味软化，煮沸后刺激性气味会挥发。你可以避开蒸汽或开抽风机，最终得到柔和的洋葱配料，可搭配任何菜肴。

In in extra virgin olive oil. Let the natural sweetness within an onion soften it up and boil and it just takes off all that extra oniony stuff. I mean, look away if you so you don't have to breathe it in or turn on the fan. And then you actually have this nice soft onion stuff that you can put on anything. Put it on a salad.

三明治、沙拉、意面都能用。刺山柑也含槲皮素——这种地中海手工采摘的小花蕾通常泡在醋或盐里，洗净切碎后能为菜肴增色提味。

Put it on a sandwich. It's actually absolutely delicious. Put it in a sprinkle it in a pasta. Those are three simple foods. Quercetin, also found in capers.

这让我想到多数人可能不熟悉的刺山柑。这种地中海手工采摘的小花蕾在超市货架有售，通常装在小罐里醋渍或盐腌，洗净后切碎可搭配各种菜肴。

Now you made me think about something I personally love that most people might not be familiar with. Capers are a small little flower bud that is picked by hand from the Mediterranean, but you can find it in the middle aisle of a grocery store. It's in a tiny little jar, usually packed in a little bit of vinegar, like pickled kind of thing, and you just pull them out or packed in salt. You pull them out, rinse them off, and you can chop them up and sprinkle them to anything, a salad, chicken, fish, whatever it is, pasta. You'll really light up the thing.

推荐它的原因是刺山柑堪称槲皮素炸弹。

And the reason I'm saying that is because capers are bombs packed with quercetin.

我为什么要在意槲皮素？

Why do I care about quercetin?

槲皮素能燃烧有害体脂。它能激活你的好脂肪——棕色脂肪来消耗坏脂肪（白色脂肪），同时它还是味蕾的超级激活剂。

Quercetin burns down harmful body fat. It activates your good fat, your brown fat to burn down your bad fat, which is white fat, and it's a super activator of your taste buds.

现在我问这个问题几乎有点紧张，因为你的建议总是这么积极。我注意到你分享的内容基本都是关于如何以不同视角看待新陈代谢和减肥话题，以及需要补充的事项。但我必须问，你会和患者讨论卡路里吗？关于卡路里是否有新的思考方式？因为我感觉自己一辈子都在计算卡路里，然后盯着步数，再计算消耗了多少热量。

Now I'm almost nervous to ask you this question because you have such positive advice. And I noticed that everything that you basically are sharing with us are about ways to think differently about the topic of metabolism and losing weight, and also things to add. But I have to ask you, do you talk about calories with your patients? Is there like a way to think about calories? Because I feel like I've spent my entire life counting calories and then looking at steps and then looking at how many calories I've burned.

那么当我们增加刺山柑摄入、改善睡眠、更好地管理压力、减少进食量、通过间歇性禁食让新陈代谢有机会启动并燃烧体内储存的卡路里和能量时，我们该如何看待卡路里？还需要计算吗？李医生，您怎么看？

And so as we add in capers, as we try to get a better night's sleep, as we are managing our stress in a better way, as we are eating less, as we're taking breaks from eating to give metabolism a chance to fire up and actually burn the calories and the fuel that's stored in our bodies, how do we think about calories? Should we be counting them? Like, what do you say, Doctor. Lee?

其实卡路里只是燃料的计量单位。如果把食物比作燃料，我们把燃料称为卡路里，你当然不希望燃料过剩。但问题是人们总喜欢设定具体数字目标来严格执行——顺便说，我理解这种心态。

Well, Calories are just a unit of measure, like for fuel. K. If our food is our fuel and we call the fuel calories, you don't want too much fuel, so you don't want too many calories. But here's the thing when people like to really try to create a little a number to say, you got to count to hit this. And I understand this, by the way.

这就像生物黑客的基础理念对吧？人们总说：'我要掌握所有数据，我是个量化主义者，我要追踪所有指标'。

This is like the basis of biohacking. Right? People go, I want to know everything there is to know. I want I'm a quantitative person. I want to get all my numbers.

这没问题。但我要说明，我之所以不鼓励人们计算卡路里或每小时监测血糖值——

That's fine. Okay? But I can tell you the reason I try to discourage people from counting calories or tracking their blood sugar on an hourly basis or, you know

或者宏量营养素之类的——

Macros or whatever the The

关键在于这会造成很大压力。而当你处于压力状态时，恰恰会阻碍你真正想达成的目标——减重和燃烧有害脂肪。如果让我整天计算卡路里、测算...

problem is that actually that's quite stressful. And when you're stressed, it actually counters what you're exactly trying to do, which is lose weight and burn harmful body fat. It's very stressful for me if I had to sit there to calculate my calories, calculate my

蛋白质摄入...那你们改用哪种方式呢？

protein So what do you do instead?

我认为这正是与营养师合作的真正价值所在——它能提供个性化方案。即使是一次性咨询，对方也会坐下来询问：你的生活状态如何？描述一下你典型的一天。有哪些你想做却做不到的事？你的整体目标是什么？

Well, I think that this is again where working with a nutritionist is really, really helpful because it's personalized. Somebody sitting with you, even it's like a one off consult, they're going to ask you, what is your life like? Tell me what you do on an average day. What do you want to do that you're not able to do? And what are your overall goals?

基于这些信息，结合你的身高、体重、性别及潜在疾病，才能更科学地推算出每日所需卡路里。顺便说，如果某天活动量增加，自然需要更多热量。这就是为什么我认为与营养师合作确定卡路里区间更健康——它能减轻压力。你需要的是量身定制的方案，所以我不愿直接给出所谓'李医生推荐范围'。

And then based on that, and based on your height and your weight and your gender and any other diseases you might have, that's actually a better way to come up with the number of calories that you should have every day. And again, by the way, if you're more active one day, you're going to need more calories. And so that's why I think the range of calories is probably working with a nutritionist is going to be a healthier way that decreases your stress. You know, you want a consultant to come in that tailors it to you, and which is why I'm reluctant now to give you kind of like, okay, doctor Lee, what's the range that we should be aiming for?

知道我刚在想什么吗？比如给个最低值？最高值？结果你直接否决了。

You know what I was thinking. Like, what about a low? What about a high? You're like, don't do it.

别往那方向想，这太令人焦虑了。我说的数字可能完全不适用于正在收听的你，反而会让你产生'我达不到'的挫败感。所以重点在于——不要过度纠结数字。

Don't go there because it's too stressful. And whatever I say might not fit the person you who's listening to this, it might not actually fit your situation. And and all of a sudden, it's like, oh, I can't achieve that. And now you're feeling stressed again. So, you know, there's something to be said about not worrying so much about numbers.

停止计算。保持对份量的觉察即可。如果某天摄入超标，第二天减少些。精准达标本就不现实。我想让大家明白：对数字的执念正是现代人营养管理、减肥过程中最大的压力源。

Stop counting. Be aware that the amounts matter. And by the way, if you consume too many calories one day, consume less the next day. So it's very hard to hit that number every single time. And that's what I want to let people know is that focusing on the numbers is a big source of modern stress when it comes to nutrition and dieting and weight loss.

更好的方式是转换思路：认识那些真正能对抗体脂的食材，它们能激活你体内固有的燃脂机制。这样才能过上更顺畅、更完整的生活，而不是被数字绑架。

It's much better to flip the script to recognize the ingredients that actually fight body fat that can tap into your and activate your body's hardwiring to burn down extra body fat and in order to be able to live a more, I would say, a smoother, more integrated life so you're not focused on those numbers.

今年初你做过一期精彩节目，用超过一小时详述那些能激发人体自然燃脂能力的食物（我们会把链接放在备注区）。李医生，我想问：对于那些终生与新陈代谢或体重抗争的听众，你想传达什么？

And earlier this year, you did a extraordinary episode where you spent over an hour going through all of those foods that you can add in that tap in your body's natural ability to burn fat and we're going to link to it in the notes section. I'm curious Doctor. Lee, what is your message to the person who's listening to us right now who has struggled with their metabolism or with their weight for their entire life?

我想对你说：你完全正常。你体内本就具备成就真实自我的一切先天条件——我们生来都有相同的生理机制。关键在于找到能唤醒你核心力量的方法，不要与他人比较，要与过去的自己对照。

My message to that person, to you, is that you're perfectly normal. You've got everything inside you that's hardwired for you to be able to tap into who you actually are because you're no different than anyone else. We're all born with the same hardwiring. What you gotta do is to figure out what works for you to tap into that inner strength that's your core, and don't compare yourself to other people. Compare yourself to you.

你取得的进步只关乎你自己，而非与他人的外貌对比。

The progress you're making is about you, not about how you look compared to somebody else.

最后还有什么要补充的吗，李医生？

And what are your parting words, doctor Lee?

我的临别赠言是：热爱你的食物，从而同时热爱你的健康和新陈代谢。

My parting words are to love your food in order to love your health and love your metabolism at the same time.

李医生，谢谢您。非常感谢您今天来到我们波士顿的演播室，教会我们这么多知识。我还要感谢您一直听到最后，花时间陪伴我和李医生。

Doctor Lee, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here in our Boston studios with us and teaching us everything that you did today. And I also wanna thank you for listening all the way to the end, spending time together with me and Doctor. Lee.

感谢您将这些分享给您关心的人。如果没人对您说过，我想告诉您：我爱您，我相信您，也相信您改变生活的能力。毫无疑问，今天所学将让您做到这一点。我们下期节目再见。这正常吗——有人跟您说话时会流口水？

Thank you for sharing this with the people that you care about. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to change your life. And there's no doubt in my mind that after what you learned today, you will. And I'll see you in the next episode. You're absolutely, is it normal for somebody to talk to you and be, like, salivating?

我感觉自己在流口水。您点击播放并花时间聆听，说明您不仅珍惜时间，而且对...我嘴里口水太多了。李医生是著名医学科学家，血管新生...天啊，又出错了。

I feel my mouth watering. The fact that you've hit play and you've taken the time to listen to this tells me that you're the kind of person who not only values your time, but you're also inter I got too much saliva in my mouth. Doctor. Lee is a renowned physician scientist, and he is the founder and president of the angiogenesis oh, Jesus Christ. There goes our bloopers.

这个词怎么说？能告诉我「血管新生」怎么说吗？这个我懂。好的。

What how do you say it? Can you just give me the word angiogenesis? That I understand. Okay.

喝茶时永远不要把茶放在旁边。这...

Whenever you drink your tea, you never put the tea nearby it. This

我丈夫从来不放好茶杯，特别烦人。不过好吧，继续。

never is put my husband. It's super annoying. But okay. Keep going. Alright.

别摧毁你的肠道。

Don't nuke your gut.

别摧毁...别摧毁你的肠道。

Don't nuke don't nuke your gut.

实际上你越...抱歉。（笑声）嘤嘤。

And the more you actually put Sorry. A laugh. Ying ying.

这是个医学术语吗？

Is that a medical term?

那是个医学术语。

That's a medical term.

抱歉打断你，特蕾西。你难道不觉得这很棒吗？你太厉害了。哦，还有一件事。不，这不是口误。

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Tracy. Are you not just loving this? You're amazing. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.

这是法律条款。你知道的，就是律师写的东西，我需要念给你听。本播客仅用于教育和娱乐目的。我只是你的朋友。我不是持证治疗师，本播客不能替代医生、专业教练、心理治疗师或其他合格专业人士的建议。

This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

明白了吗？很好。我们下期节目见。天狼星XM播客。

Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. SiriusXM Podcasts.