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嗨。
Hey.
我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
It's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
我问你个问题。
Let me ask you a question.
今天你有多少次忍住没把想说的话说出来？
How many times today did you stop yourself from saying something?
我懂。
I get it.
也许你觉得这么说会显得尴尬，或者没必要，又怕说了会让气氛变怪。
Maybe it felt awkward or unnecessary or that if you said something, it might make things weird.
于是你就想，算了，我没事。
So instead you were like, oh, I'm fine.
你故意轻描淡写地带过去了。
You kept it light.
你把那句话咽了回去。
You swallowed the comment.
你藏起了真相，然后任它过去。
You hid the truth and you let it go.
你可能对自己说，哦，这叫成熟。
You probably told yourself, oh, that's maturity.
这叫情绪智慧。
That's emotional intelligence.
这叫有边界感，什么都不说。
That's having solid boundaries, saying anything.
但要是你只是害怕说得太多呢？
But what if you're just terrified of oversharing?
你总在纠结自己会不会说多了。
You obsess over saying too much.
你反复回想那些对话，担心自己说错了话、越了界，或者别人会评判你。
You replay conversations because you're worried that you said the wrong thing or you crossed a line or people are gonna judge you.
我们大多数人觉得危险在于说得太多。
Most of us think the danger is in oversharing.
比如话太多、越了界、表现得太脆弱。
You know, saying too much, crossing a line, being too vulnerable.
但今天的嘉宾，一位哈佛商学院的行为科学家、研究决策的教授，说这种恐惧是错的。
But today's guest, a Harvard Business School professor who's a behavioral scientist and studies decision making, says that's the wrong fear.
你真正该担心的，是因封闭自己、不愿吐露心声而造成的真正伤害。
What you should be afraid of is the real damage that comes from undersharing, being closed off, not opening up about what's going on in your life.
这期节目不是要你对谁都掏心掏肺。
This episode is not about sharing everything with everyone.
这期节目讲的是学会敞开心扉、展现脆弱，以及如何真诚地表达内心真实的状态。
This episode is about the skill of being open, being vulnerable, and learning how to be honest about what's going on.
因为如果你真能应用今天学到的这些方法，你的关系会更亲密，对话会更自然，你会更快乐——这些都来自哈佛商学院排名第一的教授的建议。
Because if you really apply what you're about to learn today, your relationships will be closer, your conversations are gonna get easier, You'll feel happier because of these tips from the number one professor at Harvard Business School.
在开始之前，我想请你们继续听下去，节目后半段有个特别环节，由Expedia赞助，我会分享一个可能让你从今天起变得更快乐的小秘密。
Before we jump in, I wanna invite you to stick around for a special segment later in the episode sponsored by Expedia, because I'm going to be sharing something that might make you a happier person starting today.
嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎收听《梅尔·罗宾斯播客》。
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
很高兴你今天在这里。
I am so excited that you're here.
能和你一起度过这段时光，我真的很荣幸。
It's always an honor to be together and to spend this time with you.
如果你是新听众，或者因为别人分享才来到这里，我想特别欢迎你加入梅尔·罗宾斯播客的大家庭。
And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this episode with you, I just wanted to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.
今天我们要聊的是一项研究，它会彻底改变你的生活和事业，来自哈佛商学院决策领域排名第一的教授。
Today, we're talking about research that will change your life and your career from the number one professor on decision making at Harvard Business School.
今天的嘉宾是研究人们如何决定该透露什么、该隐瞒什么，以及这些选择如何影响信任、关系、成功与幸福的权威专家。
Today's guest is a leading authority on how people decide what to reveal, what to withhold, and how those decisions shape trust, relationships, success, and happiness.
我指的是基尔博士。
I'm talking about Doctor.
莱斯利·K。
Leslie K.
约翰。
John.
她是哈佛商学院的教授，担任詹姆斯·E。
She is a Harvard Business School professor, the James E.
伯克企业管理学教授，同时也是一位行为科学家，几十年来一直研究诚实、自我表露、信任、隐私、遗憾和决策。
Burke Professor of Business Administration, and a behavioral scientist who has spent decades studying honesty, self disclosure, trust, privacy, regret, and decision making.
她的研究成果发表在世界上最受尊敬的科学期刊上，她还是畅销书《过度分享被低估的力量》的作者，这本书彻底改变了我对沉默、脆弱，
Her research has been published in the most respected scientific journals in the world, and she is the author of the bestselling book, The Underrated Power of Oversharing, which completely changed how I think about silence, vulnerability,
还有
and
那些我们没有说出口的话。
the things we don't say.
接下来，请和我一起欢迎莱斯利·约翰博士来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
So without further ado, please help me welcome Doctor.
来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Leslie John to the Mel Robbins podcast.
哦，非常感谢你邀请我来。
Oh, thanks so much for having me.
我特别期待深入探讨你即将分享的全部内容，还有你的研究。
I am so excited to dig into everything that you're about to teach us, your research.
我想从一个自私的角度问：如果我把你在哈佛商学院教的那些课、那些洞见、那些研究成果，真正用到我自己的生活里，我的人生会有什么不同？
And where I wanna start is how selfishly, how could my life be different if I take to heart everything that you are teaching at Harvard Business School, the lessons, the takeaway, the research, and I really apply it to my life?
我的生活到底会变成什么样？
How is my life gonna change?
对。
Mhmm.
首先，你要明白，有智慧地坦露自己是一种能力。
So number one is the realization that revealing wisely is a skill.
这不是与生俱来就擅长或不擅长的事。
It's not something we're born good or bad at.
它是一种可以通过练习掌握的能力。
It is a skill.
你可以做一些非常实际的事情，我们待会儿就会谈到，来更明智地做到这一点。
And you can do some really practical things, which we're gonna talk about to to to do it really wisely.
如果你能明智地去做，它会彻底改变你的关系。
And if you do it wisely, it's gonna transform your relationships.
它会改变你在工作中的表现方式。
It's gonna change how you show up at work.
它会帮助你在工作中更好地成长。
It's gonna help you thrive at work.
它会让你更有影响力。
It's gonna make you more influential.
甚至还能改善你的整体幸福感和日常快乐。
And it's even gonna shape and improve your well-being, your day to day happiness.
只是因为更坦诚一些吗？
Just by being more open?
对。
Yes.
你会注意到，你的情商——也就是情绪智力——会明显提升。
You're gonna notice that your EQ, your emotional intelligence, is gonna increase.
你会对自己有更清晰的觉察和理解，对别人的理解也会更深。
You're gonna have much better self awareness and understanding, and you'll have a much better understanding of others.
这样一来，你就更能识别和处理自己的情绪了。
As a result, you'll be much better able to, like, identify and process your emotions.
因此，你会感到压力小多了。
You will feel, therefore, less stress.
你也不会总在脑子里反复琢磨那些事了。
You will ruminate less.
那种说完话就不停回放、心里揪着问‘天啊，我刚才是不是说错话了？’的情况，会少很多。
You will you know that that that post conversational replay, that gut wrenching, oh my god, what did I do?
这是因为敞开心扉的一部分，就是敢于说那些难开口的话。
That's gonna dial way down because part of opening up is saying hard things.
你会学会更坚定地表达自己，这也会帮你更好地设立界限。
You're going to learn to be more assertive, which will help you with boundaries beyond.
而且你会感受得更多。
And you'll feel more.
这不只是少了负面的东西，或者减轻了它们。
It's not just the absence of negative stuff or the mitigating of it.
你会感受到更多的快乐。
You're going to feel more joy.
你会更快乐。
You're going to be happier.
我本人就是如此。
I sure am.
连我这个爱抱怨的学者都有这种体会，你也会在工作和事业中受益。
And if this curmudgeonly academic feels that way, you'll also find benefits in your workplace, in your career.
有意思的是，那些能帮你提升影响力的方法，其实有点反直觉。
So it's interesting because the tools there are kind of counterintuitive, the things that you do to, say, gain more influence.
所以我特别想聊聊这个。
So I'm excited to talk about that.
那我们开始吧。
So, let's go.
约翰医生，我坐在这儿想，你站在哈佛商学院的讲台上，下面肯定坐满了典型的A型人格学生，他们一心想着进投行，当下一个亿万富翁，或者打造真正有意义的事业，个个都拼命努力。
You know, doctor John, I'm sitting here thinking, if you're standing before a class at Harvard Business School, you gotta have a bunch of really type A people in there who wanna go into iBanking or be the next billionaire or build something meaningful, hardworking, hard driving.
他们坐在你面前，你却说：嘿。
They end up in front of you and you're like, hey.
咱们来聊聊过度分享的力量吧。
Let's talk about the power of oversharing.
我懂。
I know.
你怎么向那些来上课只是为了往上爬的人，解释开放和你所说的‘过度分享’的好处呢？
How do you sell the benefit of being more open and what you call oversharing to somebody Yes.
他们只想着在课堂里脱颖而出。
Who is just in your class to get ahead?
对。
Yes.
那这么做到底有什么实际好处呢？
What is the real benefit of that?
对。
Yes.
问得好。
Great question.
我通常会先用他们熟悉的方式来说话。
The way I start is by speaking their language.
我经常给高管们上课。
So I teach a lot of executives.
其中有些人确实比较谨慎，天生就爱怀疑。
And some of them, rightly so, well, I'm skeptical person.
他们会问：这到底是什么东西？
They're like, what is this?
尤其是谈到感受和情绪的时候，他们更会问：这到底是什么？
And especially sometimes when it comes to, like, feelings and emotions, what is this?
所以我做的第一件事，是在商业场景中向他们展示，这听起来可能有点粗俗，但确实有用。
And so what I do is I start by showing them in business contexts how this first of all, this is crass maybe.
我是商学院的教授。
I am a business school professor.
我要让他们明白，这能帮他们赚更多钱。
How it helps them make money.
没错。
Yep.
然后我会
And then I
所以你分享得越多，赚的钱就越多。
show So if you share more, you make more money.
我举的例子是，我知道。
So the example I give there I know.
什么？
What?
公司也是这样，当我们分享更多、更开放，甚至透露一些有点敏感的信息时，对方反而会更信任我们。
As a company so when we share more, when we open up, when we reveal slightly sensitive things, it causes whoever we're revealing to to trust us more.
在企业中也是如此。
And the same is true in companies.
当企业透露更多信息时，会让他们客户更信任他们、更愿意购买——我可不是随便用‘导致’这个词的。
When companies reveal more, it causes their and I don't use the word cause lightly.
对吧？
Right?
这些都是经过随机对照实验验证的。
These are randomized experiments.
会让客户更信任他们，购买意愿也更强。
It causes their customers to trust them more and to buy more.
我们和同事瑞安·比尔做过一些研究，比如澳大利亚最大的银行——澳洲联邦银行。我们在他们的信用卡网站上做了一个实验：当你在浏览他们的信用卡产品时，有一半的情况会主动告诉你，为什么这张卡可能不适合你。
So we've done studies with, like, the largest bank in Australia, for example, where with my colleague, Ryan Buell, where somehow we convince them to, on their credit card website so when you're going and looking for a credit card on their their bank, Commonwealth Bank of Australia, what we convince them to do is half of the time to reveal reasons why you might not want the credit card.
注意听好了。
So like, pay attention.
手续费太高，或者积分不划算，诸如此类。
The fees are really high or the points aren't great or whatever.
高利率，其实就是主动提醒你：别买这个。
The high interest rate, like drawing attention, basically saying, don't buy this.
但这其实是一种敏感信息的坦诚。
But that's a form of sensitive disclosure.
对吧？
Right?
那这么做产生了什么效果？
And what did that do?
结果并没有把客户吓跑。
It actually it did not scare people away.
客户获取率没降，反而提升了留存率。
It didn't decrease customer acquisition, and it increased retention.
光是这个实验就给银行带来了数百万美元的收益，之后他们就全面推广了。
The experiment alone made the bank millions of dollars, and then they rolled it out.
然后他们的竞争对手就模仿了他们。
And then their competitors copied them.
所以我就从金钱这个角度开始讲。
So so that's kinda I start in the, like, money realm.
对。
Yep.
然后他们就说，哦，原来如此。
And then they're like, oh, okay.
接着我转到领导力的话题，讲的是当你作为领导者，多透露一点自己，其实比你想象的更有用，我会带他们一步步体会。
And then I go into leadership, and there I go into how when you're a leader revealing a little bit more than you think you should, And I take them through.
我先让他们写一段简短的自我介绍。
I first get them to craft a little self introduction.
我会说，想象你现在要向一群新员工介绍自己。
I say, imagine you're about to introduce yourself to a group of new hires.
你会怎么描述自己？
What what would you say about yourself?
然后我会说，如果你在刚才的自我介绍里提到过任何缺点，请举手。
And then I say, raise your hand if you had any negative traits in that.
一片沉默。
Crickets.
接着我提到，我们曾对真实管理者做了一项研究，随机分组，一组像你们这样完全不提缺点，另一组则故意加入一两个弱点。
And then I said, we did a study with actual managers where we we randomized them to either do what you did and not share weaknesses, or some of them planted a put a few weaknesses in.
然后我们问那些员工，他们更想为谁工作。
And then we asked the employees who they wanna work for.
他们更愿意为那些有缺点的人工作。
They wanna work for the person that has the weaknesses.
他们并不觉得这样的上司能力不足。
They don't think the employer is incompetent.
相反，他们更信任这样的人，也更想跟他们一起工作。
They just trust them more and they wanna work for them.
这让我觉得特别有意思，因为一听到‘过度分享’这个词，你就会想到那些话一出口就后悔的瞬间。
Well, find this so fascinating because you hear the word oversharing and you're you think about those moments where something fell out of your mouth and then you regret it.
完全没错。
Completely.
你做的这项研究真是突破性的。
And the research that you've been doing is so groundbreaking.
到底是什么让你突然意识到，等等，我之前想错了？
What actually led you to go, oh, wait a minute.
主动透露那些你平时藏着不敢说的事，真的很重要。
Over sharing and revealing things that you may be hiding or may be scared to say really matters.
那你当时是哪个瞬间觉得，我是不是看错了？
Like, what was that moment you're like, I'm looking at this wrong?
对我而言，彻底改变看法的是一个简单的思维实验，我们让听众来思考这个小场景。
For me, the study that changed everything was a simple thought experiment I ran where we could actually ask listeners to think through this little thought experiment.
想象一下，你在两个潜在约会对象之间做选择，你跟其中一个聊了，问他们：你以前得过性传播疾病吗？
So imagine you are deciding between two possible dates, two possible suitors, and you talk to one of them, and you ask them, have you ever had any sexually transmitted diseases, STDs?
我知道这问题确实有点直接。
Now I know that that's That's kinda forward.
好的。
Okay.
就这些。
That's that's all.
哈佛商学院的教授说。
Harvard Business School professor says.
不。
No.
是的。
Yes.
这确实太直接了。
That's super forward.
显然，我们不会一开始就问这个问题。
Obviously, obviously, we're not gonna open with that one.
我简化一下说给你听，因为你们都很忙。
I'm I'm boiling it down to you because you're busy people.
所以，好吧。
So okay.
于是你问这个人，他们说：其实，是的。
So you ask the person this, and they say, actually, yeah.
我得过很多性传播疾病。
I've had a lot of STDs.
好吧。
Okay.
然后你问另一个人同样的问题，他们说：我不想回答这个问题。
So then you ask the other person same question, and they say, I don't wanna answer that question.
我不会回答的。
I'm not answering it.
拒绝回答。
Refuse to answer.
于是我们让成千上万的人陷入了这种困境。
And so we asked we put thousands of people in this quandary.
这两种情况，都跟我爸说的‘理想人选’不太一样。
Now neither of these is exactly as my father would say a fine specimen.
所以真到了关键时刻，你会怎么选？
So you'd like, you push come to shove.
你更想要一个靠谱一点、愿意回答你问题的人。
You want someone who's more responsible or who answers your questions.
但如果你必须二选一，你会选谁？
But if you had to choose, if you had to choose, who would you pick?
我们一次又一次发现，人们更倾向于选择那个愿意坦白的人——哪怕他说的是件糟糕的事，也不选那个刻意隐瞒的人。
And again and again, we found people prefer the revealer, the person who says the thing even if it's a terrible thing relative to someone who hides, who saliently withholds.
我们在约会场景里也发现了同样的趋势。
We've found this in dating context.
这里大约有65%的人这么选。
So here, it's about 65% of people.
当然不是百分之百，但绝大多数，压倒性的多数，都更愿意选这个‘熟悉的魔鬼’。
So not a 105 100% of people, but the majority, the significant majority prefer this devil they know.
在其他研究中，我们问过人们更愿意雇用谁。
In other studies, we found like in another study, we we asked people who they'd rather hire.
你会更愿意雇用这样的人吗？他在求职申请里坦白了自己最差的成绩，承认自己挂过科；还是选那个选择不回答的人？
Would you rather hire someone who, on the job application, answered the question, what are what are your worst grades and admitted that they'd failed versus the someone someone who opted out?
大约有89%的人会选择那个敢于承认缺点的人。
Something like 89% of people choose the person who admits to the bad thing.
这真的让我们感到特别震惊。
And and this just was, like, astounding to us.
于是我们做了更多研究，发现人们不愿意选那些隐瞒的人，主要是因为他们不信任对方。
So we did more studies, and what we realized was that the reason that people really didn't wanna go for the hider was because they distrusted them.
至少那个坦白的人，他愿意说实话，这就让人觉得可靠。
Because at least the person who revealed, at least they revealed and they're trustworthy.
而每当你在研究中回答一个问题，这正是我喜欢这份工作的原因——它总会引出下一个问题，更深一层。
And now why does then the question is you know, every question you answer in research, this is why I love my job, is another question, another layer.
那为什么这个人就显得更可靠呢？
Well, why is that person trustworthy?
我们发现，当你向别人透露一些敏感信息时，其实是在表达你对他们的信任。
And what we found was that when you think about it, revealing something sensitive to someone is showing that you trust the person.
因为我把这件事说出来了，等于把主动权交了出去，潜台词就是：我相信你不会让我出丑。
Because I'm saying the thing, and I'm, like, relinquishing control to the universe, and I'm implicitly saying I trust you to not make a fool out of me.
对吧？
Right?
所以我是在传递一种信任。
So I'm showing.
当我们感觉到别人信任我们时，就会自然而然地回以信任。
And when we feel that someone trusts us, it causes us to trust them in return.
那这为什么重要呢？
And why is that important?
因为这是人与人之间关系的基础。
Because it is the foundation of human relationships.
对吧？
Right?
我们本质上是群居动物。
We are herd creatures.
没有牢固的人际关系，我们根本活不下去。
We cannot survive without strong relationships.
所以当有人明显回避这种自我披露，比如回答‘我不想回答’时，我们会轻视他们，甚至宁愿选择一个愿意坦白一些缺点的人，也不愿选那种干脆不回应的人。
And so when someone abstains saliently from this activity of revealing when they say, I'm not I'm opting out of answering, we treat them with contempt so much so that we would rather hire someone, date someone who admits pretty bad things relative to someone who simply abstains.
你可以想一想，不回应的人可能有他的原则，觉得不该回答。
And you could think about it like there's lots of reasons why the, nonresponder it could be a principled nonresponse.
对吧？
Right?
他们可能觉得这个问题太冒犯了，根本不该问。
They could be saying this is an insensitive this is not the right question.
我反对。
I object.
对吧？
Right?
你刚才说‘想象一下’的时候。
Well, when you said imagine.
对。
Yes.
你就想象一下，你正要决定和两个人中的哪一个约会。
Just imagine you have two people you're trying to decide you're gonna go out on a date with.
你问他们：你有过性传播疾病的病史吗？
You ask them, do you have any history with STDs?
对。
Yes.
你一告诉我第二个人说‘我不回答这个问题’，
The second that you told me that the second person was like, I refuse to answer that.
我就想，你肯定是得了性病才不答的。
I'm like, well, that's because you have an STD.
对吧。
Right.
我会选那个愿意坦诚的人。
I'm going with the person Right.
愿意说实话的人，没错。
That is willing Right.
因为你说得对，他们愿意透露这些信息。
To reveal that because you're right.
你这么一解释，我现在觉得这太明显了，教授。
I feel like I mean, it's so obvious now that you explain it, professor.
对。
Right.
我觉得，真遇到这种情况时，人的第一反应就是隐瞒一切。
I think when you're in the situation, the instinct is to hide the Completely.
装出一副完美的样子。
Information to put up a perfect front Yep.
就是不想说出口。
And to not reveal Yep.
你担心别人会因此对你评头论足的事情。
Things that you believe people will judge you for.
而且
And
实际上，我们做过其他实验，让参与者置身于这种情境中。
in fact, we did other experiments where we put people in that position.
我们说，好吧。
We said, okay.
你想象一下，我们并没有让别人假想自己得了很多性病。
You have, like, imagine you have We didn't make people imagine they had lots of STDs.
而是让他们想象自己考试没通过，类似这样的事。
We've got them to imagine that they had failed an exam or something.
明白了。
Okay.
然后你正在填写一份工作申请。
And you're getting on a job application.
我们还给了他们适当的激励，确保他们真心说实话。
And we like incented them to incentive compatible.
我们真的很希望他们能坦诚相告。
And we like, we really wanted them to be honest.
我们问他们：你会选择透露这件事，还是干脆不回答？
And we said, would you reveal this, or would you choose not to answer?
几乎所有人都觉得，不回答才是明智的选择。
Almost everyone thinks the wise move there is to choose not to answer.
但其实这是错的。
And it's wrong.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
嗯，我不确定是不是
Well, I don't know if
可能是我律师的本能吧，但你现在说的是，根据研究，人天生就会觉得，只要对方回避某个问题，哪怕只是稍微有点躲闪，你就会觉得他没说真话。
it's the lawyer in me, but now what you're saying is that based on the research, it's actually human nature that when somebody avoids answering something where you even pick up on a smidge of, I don't think I'm getting the full story here.
你根本不会信任这样的人。
You will not trust that person.
所以你不肯坦白，但你知道最荒谬的是什么吗？
And so by not revealing and you know what's crazy about this?
当你认真听约翰医生说话的时候。
If you really stop as you're listening to Doctor.
想象一下这些提问，如果有人回答说：‘我不好意思回答这个问题。’
John, and you're imagining these questions, and somebody's like, well, I'm not comfortable answering that.
你第一反应就是：他在撒谎。
You immediately go liar.
没错。
Yeah.
你马上就会觉得这个人没对你讲实话。
You immediately believe and assume that the person is not telling you the truth.
但最奇怪的是。
But here's what's crazy.
是的。
Yeah.
他们这么说，是因为真的不希望你去评判他们。
The person is saying that because they literally don't want you to judge them.
通过说
By saying
这句话，其实没什么大不了的。
it, you're not, it's crazy.
挺讽刺的。
Ironic.
这太讽刺了。
It's so ironic.
在法律上，我一直觉得，呃，你明明知道该怎么说，但我这话说得有点乱——就是当你援引第五修正案的时候，法律上本来就不该因此对你做出任何负面推断。
And and in the law, like, I always think the the the law how, like, you're you're not supposed to you would know better than I'm butchering how to say it, but where where you plead Fifth Amendment or whatever, you're not supposed to make any inference from that.
这根本不可能。
It's impossible.
但我们就是会不自觉地做出这种推断。
It's an automatic inference that we make.
没错。
Yes.
确实如此。
It's so true.
你刚才提到你在做大量研究。
So you mentioned that you're doing all this research.
是的。
Yeah.
然后突然间，研究结果揭示了
And all of a sudden the research reveals
对你来说
to you
是的。
Yes.
这，太惊人了。
That, wow.
是的。
Yes.
隐瞒真相会让你显得不可信。
Not sharing the truth makes you less trustworthy.
没错。
Yes.
还有两项研究，我就不多说了。
There's two other I won't I won't say much about the other research.
还有两件事，简直让我震惊得说不出话。
There's two other things that were like, blow my mind, mom.
没关系。
That's okay.
接下来是一个研究，一项严谨的科学实验。
The next was a study, a hard scientific study.
我这是在自嘲，因为我特别喜欢设计一些有趣但能深刻揭示人性的实验，让参与者陷入尴尬的处境。
I'm making fun of myself because I love doing, you know, fun, but I think deeply revealing experiments with people where I put them in these awkward situations.
这项研究是由一位神经科学家做的，真正的硬核科学家。
This was by a neuroscientist, so like a hardcore scientist.
他们让参与者进入脑扫描仪，观察大脑哪些区域被激活。
And what they did was they put people in brain scanners to look at what areas of their brain were activated.
其中一半的人被问了一些私人问题。
And half of the people, they asked them personal questions.
就是让他们主动透露一些个人信息。
So they asked them to reveal.
另一半人则被问了不同的问题，那些问题不会让他们有机会透露私密内容。
The other half were asked different questions that didn't give them the opportunity to reveal.
他们发现，那些有机会分享的人，大脑的愉悦中枢会被激活。
And what they found was that the people who got to reveal, the pleasure centers of their brain were activated.
前提是他们说了实话。
If they told the truth.
其实也不一定是在问人会撒谎的问题。
Well, they didn't even tell like, they the questions were not necessarily places where you would lie.
比如，你最喜欢的冰淇淋口味是什么？
They were like, what's your favorite ice cream flavor?
你喜欢什么，都是一些关于你自己的普通问题。
What do you like, they were just anything about yourself.
并不特别敏感，但就是关于自己的分享和透露。
Not particularly sensitive, but talking about yourself, revealing about yourself.
大脑的愉悦中枢真的被激活了，太惊人了。
The pleasure centers of the brain activated Wow.
相比起你谈论其他事情的时候。
Relative to when you were talking about yourself.
这让我真的觉得太惊人了。
And that to me was like, wow.
这些可是大脑最古老的部分啊。
This is like these are the really old brain structures.
如果有什么东西能带来如此深层的内在满足，那一定意味着我们得认真对待这件事。
And if there's something really deeply intrinsically rewarding, there's something really important going on here that we need to pay attention to.
我想确认一下，你刚才说的这个洞见有多强，希望听众在听或看的时候，能真正体会到我们这位教授的深刻见解。
And just to make sure that I kinda got the power of that insight and that as you're listening or watching, you really pulled out from our esteemed professor.
如果我理解得没错的话，你的意思是——
What that tells you, if I'm hearing you
没错。
correctly Yeah.
你天生就会在说出真实的自我时，感到由衷的愉悦。
Is that you are hardwired to feel good about yourself when you reveal things about you that are true.
完全正确。
Completely.
这是本能的一部分，我猜如果你压抑这种冲动，反而会适得其反，因为你天生就是这样。
That it's part of the And I would imagine that if you suppress that, that it has a negative backfiring effect too since you're wired for this.
没错。
Absolutely.
完全正确。
Absolutely.
是的。
Yep.
真惊人。
Wow.
没错。
Yep.
哦，这里。
Oh, here.
还有第三项研究，真的让我大受震撼。
There is a third study which I could talk about that, like, rocked me.
是的
Yeah.
第三个研究是什么？
What's the third
让你震惊的第三个研究？
study that rocked you?
所以这个
So the
让我震惊的第三个研究，我遇到过一个老研究，效果不错，或者很糟糕，这取决于你怎么看待它的结论。研究里，他们录下了学龄前儿童看一部恐怖电影时的反应。
third study that rocked me, I encountered this oldie but goodie or baddie study, depending on how you view the conclusions, about what they did in this study was they videotaped preschoolers as they were watching a kind of scary movie.
他们录像的目的是观察孩子们脸上流露出多少情绪，有多少真实情感不自觉地表现出来。
And so they they were videotaping them to see how much they expressed on their faces, how much seeped out, how much did they show on their faces of their feelings.
他们还测量了孩子们手掌的出汗情况。
They also measured how sweaty their palms are.
这就是皮肤电反应，用来测量手指上的出汗量。
So this is the galvanic skin response, which measures sweat on your fingers.
你有没有过紧张的时候，手指头会冒汗？
You know how when you get you get nervous, you get sweaty sweaty fingers?
这种反应其实就是生理上的压力，如果你这么想的话，算是种客观的压力指标。
And so that's physiological stress, kind of like objective stress if you were to think about it that way.
他们发现，那些脸上表现得更明显的孩子，生理上反而更平静。
And what they found was that the children who let more out on their faces, they were physiologically calmer.
也就是说，他们的手指并没有出汗。
Meaning their fingers weren't sweaty.
没错。
Correct.
通过面部表情表达和释放情绪，确实如此。
Through their facial expression and reacting and revealing Right.
你是在处理内心那些紧张的情绪。
You were processing the stressful feelings you had.
正是这样。
Exactly.
没错。
Exactly.
这简直太惊人了，完全是个颠覆性的发现。
Now that's the awesome like, that's it's total revelation.
对吧？
Right?
我现在有个三岁女儿叫邦妮，还有一个五岁的孩子。
Now I am a mom of a three year old my Bonnie is a three year old and a five year old.
我读到这个的时候，想到他们当时的年龄和现在差不多。
And when I read this, you know, they were similar ages and to what they are now, obviously.
但关键在于，研究发现，等孩子们上了幼儿园，就出现了性别差异——男孩们开始憋着不表现了。
And the kicker, though, is that the study found that once the children reached kindergarten age, there had been there was a gender difference such that the boys were now holding it in.
以前在学龄前，大家都是自然流露的。
So whereas when they were preschoolers, they were kind of all expressing it.
但随着时间推移，男孩们学会了压抑情绪——如果你在听，我这儿打个引号——他们被社会文化慢慢塑造得要坚强，男孩不能轻易表露情绪。
But over time, the boys had learned, and I'm using air quotes if you're listening, they had been, like, culturally conditioned to be stoic and, like, boys don't show.
对吧？
Right?
我们这些有毒的刻板印象啊。
These these toxic norms we have.
所以作为男孩的妈妈，几个月前，我看到我那才三岁半的小家伙摆出那副表情。
And so as a boy mom, I'm you know, a couple months ago, I saw my my little three and a half year old being stoic, that face.
你知道那种面无表情的样子吗？
You know the stoic face?
对。
Yes.
我心都碎了。
And I I just broke my heart.
我就跟泰勒说：宝贝，没关系的。
And I said, Tyler, like, it's okay.
也许我有点过度补偿了，但这件事真的深深触动了我。
I may be overcompensating, but, but that really, really shook me.
是的。
Yeah.
有意思的是，我现在想到我生活中有个人，他最近跟我讲过一个故事：他小时候家里有人去世了。
Well, it's interesting because I'm thinking right now about somebody in my life who recently told me this story about how when he was really, really little, they had a death in the family.
在葬礼上，他情绪一下子崩溃了。
And at the funeral, he started to get very, very upset.
当时家里人把手放在他肩上，对他说：你要为妈妈坚强。
And, you know, when someone in the family put a hand on this little boy's shoulder and said, you gotta be strong for mom.
天哪。
Oh my.
从此，‘为妈妈坚强’就成了他心里的信条，深深影响了他表达或压抑情绪的方式，也让他觉得自己必须克制情感。
And that became strong for mom became the mantra in this person's mind that has really defined the way in which they've expressed emotion or not expressed emotion or, you know, believe that they needed to be stoic.
结合你的研究，我想你会说，打开心扉、分享情感，正是打破‘为妈妈坚强’这种束缚的关键。
And in the context of your research, I would imagine you would say that the being open and the sharing of emotion is really the opportunity to break the hold that strong for mom Completely.
彻底摆脱它的影响。
Has on you.
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完全正确。
Completely.
是的。
Yeah.
完全正确。
Completely.
那一个不善于表达情感的人，他的生活是怎样的呢？
So what is the life of an under sharer
是什么样子的？
look like?
对。
Yes.
我认为，不善于表达情感的人，过的是错失良机的人生。
I would say the life of an under sharer is a life of missed opportunities.
是那些从未开花结果的友谊。
It's a life of friendships that never blossom.
这是一种同事始终对你缺乏信任的生活。
It's a life of colleagues that never quite trust you.
这是一种恋情无法点燃或无法深入的生活。
It's a life of romances that don't spark or don't deepen.
我知道。
I know.
这真让人难过。
It's so sad.
确实如此。
It is.
那你怎么判断自己是过度内敛，而不是单纯害羞、内向，或者只是更喜欢旁观呢？
And how do you know if you're an undershare versus somebody who is just very much, like, shy or introverted or just a little bit more of an observer?
这两者有什么区别呢？
What's the difference?
还是说其实没什么区别？
Or is there a difference?
我喜欢这个问题，因为爱说话并不等于会坦诚，更别说明智地分享了。
I love that question because being talkative is not the same thing as being reveal y or revealing wisely for that matter.
我先打断你一下。
Let me just pause you there.
是的。
Yeah.
你这话是冲着我说的吗？
Because is that aimed at me?
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
我开玩笑的。
I'm just kidding.
我只是啊。
I just oh.
那是句玩笑。
That was a joke.
很好。
Good.
很好。
Good.
很好。
Good.
我喜欢这个笑话。
I love the joke.
我特别喜欢。
I love it.
是的。
Yeah.
我们这些人啊。
Those of us Yeah.
话多并不等于真的在练习分享这项技能和艺术。
That may be a little bit more talkative doesn't necessarily mean you're actually practicing the skill and art of sharing.
完全正确。
Completely.
好的。
Okay.
所以。
So
我性格比较内向，但挺愿意表达的。
I'm pretty introverted, but I'm pretty forthcoming.
我一个特别要好的朋友特别外向，可她自己却很难打开心扉。
And one of my very best friends is extremely extroverted, and she herself struggles to open up.
事实上，她说她真的很不擅长展现脆弱的一面。
In fact, she said that she really, really struggles with vulnerability.
我曾经当面跟她说过这一点。
And at first, I I would say I've said this to her face.
一开始，我以为她这只是在装谦虚，其实是在炫耀。
At first, I I I thought that that was just like an elaborate Humble brag.
我做不到敞开心扉。
I can't be vulnerable.
但我亲眼看到她真的很难做到。
But I've seen firsthand that she struggles.
这让我更加确信所谓的‘外向错觉’——我们总以为爱说话就等于深入交流、坦诚相待。
And that really has has solidified to me what I call the extroversion illusion, which is that we tend to think equate talkativeness with going deep and opening up.
其实这两者根本不是一回事。
They're really not at all the same thing.
我们喜欢外向的人，因为他们热情开朗。
So we love extroverts because they're gregarious.
他们总是有说不完的话。
They're talkative.
他们情绪特别积极。
They're they have a really positive affect.
对吧？
Right?
他们常常心情不错。
They're often in a good mood.
但说到真正深入的内心想法，想想你认识的那些外向的人。
But when it comes to revealing the really deep stuff, think about the extroverts in your life.
他们在坦露多少内心事上，其实和内向的人没什么区别。
They're probably no different than the introverts in terms of how much they reveal or don't.
对吧？
Right?
所以，坦露心事和爱说话完全是两回事。
So revealing is really a different thing than talking.
我很喜欢这个区别，因为当你提到‘开放’这个词的时候，确实如此。
I love that distinction because when you bring in the word open Mhmm.
你有多坦诚？
How open are you?
对。
Mhmm.
你到底分享了多少，而不是光说些空话？
How much do you actually share versus the blah blah blah blah blah?
没错。
Yep.
我觉得，最善于坦露内心的人，往往是最有弹性的人。
And I would say that the people that are the best revealers, the best sharers are the ones that are the most flexible.
他们具备很强的自我披露灵活性。
They have the most disclosure flexibility.
所以他们的范围很广。
So they they have a wide range.
在最信任的人面前，他们非常开放；但在需要的时候，也能完全封闭自己。
They go from extreme openness with their most trusted confidants to, like, extreme guardedness when the situation calls for.
对吧？
Right?
所以他们在这些极端之间切换起来非常灵活。
So they're really nimble at moving between these extremes.
这是一个重要的区别。
That's an important distinction.
对。
Mhmm.
因为当你刚开始接触这份工作时，可能会觉得，哦，好吧。
Because when you first kinda dive into your work, you might think, oh, okay.
我只需要完全坦诚，做个透明人就行了。
I just gotta be super vulnerable, a completely open book.
没错。
Right.
我得一直说个不停。
I gotta blah blah blah.
这两种极端都包含在内。
And it's both extremes.
关键是要知道什么时候该敞开心扉，什么时候该保持警惕。
It's knowing when to be open and when to be guarded.
没错。
Right.
那你怎么区分，一个人只是天生内向害羞，和一个人真的封闭、不愿与人分享和建立联系呢？
So how do you know the difference between being the kind of person that tends to just be shy or introverted versus being somebody who's closed and is under sharing and connecting with people?
对。
Mhmm.
这是个很好的问题。
That's a great question.
我觉得首先得审视自己，尤其是当你在人际关系中遇到这种情况时，往往最能看出来。
I think that you need to look to yourself first and do a kind of audit of I think a a a place where this shows up very saliently is in one's relationships.
对吧？
Right?
比如你和配偶之间的关系。
Like, your spouse, your relationship with your spouse.
你和他/她分享多少内心的想法？
Do you how much do you share with them?
你真的觉得他/她了解你吗？
Do you really feel like they know you?
你觉得自己了解他/她吗？
Do you feel like you know them?
你们聊的是真实感受，还是只谈日常琐事？
How much are you talking about your feelings versus logistics?
你可以这样对自己做个梳理。
You do kind of an audit like that.
如果你开始留意，会发现哪些迹象呢？
What are some of the things that you would notice if you start to think?
我举个例子吧，说不定对你有帮助。我和克里斯大概是四五年前结婚的，之后我们就开始找心理咨询师了。
And I'll just I'll just, like, share this in case it's helpful as you're listening or watching So I would say, god, we've married three about four or five years ago, Chris and I started seeing a therapist.
对。
Mhmm.
最让人惊讶的是，有个人特别爱说话。
And one of the most shocking things is somebody who's very talkative.
而且
And
我嫁给了一个内向得多的人，对。
I'm married to somebody who is way more introverted and Mhmm.
他总在自己脑子里转，对。
Up in his head Mhmm.
是个喜欢深思的人。
And a thinker.
特别有意思的是，虽然我们整天在一起，处理各种日常事务，也一起玩得开心，但在对生活的感受和婚姻的联结上，我们的治疗师说，你们俩就像并排站着，各自困在自己的世界里。
And it was extraordinarily fascinating to see that we even though we were side by side, lots of logistics, doing life together, having fun, In terms of our experiences of life and in terms of our connection and our marriage, our therapist uses this term, you two are two people that stand next to each other, but you're sequestered in your own experiences.
天哪。
Jeez.
最让人想不到的是，学会彼此敞开心扉，这跟随便聊聊今天发生了啥完全不是一回事。
And what was really unbelievable about it is that learning how to be more open with one another, which is different than just blah blah blah blah blah about your day Yeah.
这是一门本事。
Is a skill.
完全没错。
Completely.
我觉得过去四年，我学会了如何对克里斯更坦诚，他也慢慢愿意靠近，愿意分享他的想法和感受。
And I feel like in the last four years, learning how to be more open with Chris and having him also lean in Mhmm.
这种真正的交流让我们比以往任何时候都更亲近。再想想过去二十六年，我们其实一直在各自的世界里生活，身体虽在一起，心里却隔得很远。
To learning how to reveal and even talk about the things that he's thinking about or feeling or whatever has brought us so much closer because and then I think about the last twenty six years, and we've had completely different experiences in our minds and bodies because we weren't really connecting over it.
我们只是并肩过日子，你懂我的意思吧。
We were just doing life together, if that makes sense.
梅尔，我觉得我们俩就像活在平行宇宙里，因为我跟我的伴侣也有过完全相同的经历。
Mel, I think we're, like, living in a parallel universe because I have had the exact same experience with my own.
我们也有婚姻咨询师。
We have a marriage therapist.
他太棒了。
He's amazing.
我渐渐意识到，我们每次吵架，都是因为我一直 assumptions，以为对方怎么想，其实我们根本没好好表达自己的感受。
You know, I started realizing I'm making all these assumptions about when and these tiffs we get into, it's because we're not actually communicating how we feel.
是啊。
Yeah.
真正打开这扇窗，去了解伴侣内心的想法和情绪，对婚姻的帮助太大了，能让我们走得更远。
And so there's so many things that that that, like, opening this this box of, like, what your spouse is thinking and feeling is just so, so helpful for marriage and staying together.
而且这能避免很多无谓的争吵，因为问题从来不是碗没洗或者洗碗机里堆着东西这类小事。
And it it prevents these stupid tips because it's never about the, you know, the dishes in the dishwasher or whatever.
对吧？
Right?
医生。
Doctor.
约翰，你今天分享的每一句话我都特别认同。
John, I love everything that you're sharing with us today.
我知道，你现在听的时候，一定能感同身受。
I know as you're listening, you can relate.
你可能正在想某个人，或者就是你自己。
You're probably thinking about somebody or yourself.
你或许在想你的伴侣、朋友、同事，甚至可能是你孩子，他们真的需要了解这些信息，这些能改变人生的感悟来自约翰医生。
You might be thinking about your partner, a friend, a coworker, even maybe one of your kids who really deserves to get all of this information and these life changing takeaways from Doctor.
约翰。
John.
既然你现在心里已经想到了这个人，那就把这期节目转发给他吧。
So while you have that person in mind, I want you to send them this episode.
我们先插个短广告，感谢我们的赞助商，但别走开，因为这场对话只会越来越深刻，因为约翰医生还有更多内容要分享。
And we're gonna take a quick break to let our incredible sponsors shine and share a few words, but stay with me because this conversation is only getting more powerful because Dr.
约翰医生还有很多话想对你说，也想对我说。
John has so much more to share with you and me.
请继续听下去。
Stay with me.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
我是你的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯。
It's your friend Mel Robbins.
今天我们要聊一个观点：你根本不是说得太多，而是说得太少。
Today, we are talking about the idea that you're not oversharing.
你正在学习开放与坦诚的技巧，学会在生活中更有勇气，以及这样做的好处。
You're saying too little.
我们邀请到了哈佛商学院教授莱斯利·约翰博士。
You're learning about the skill of openness and vulnerability and how to have more courage in your life and the benefits of doing so with Harvard Business School professor, Doctor.
约翰博士。
Leslie John.
好了。
All right.
所以，约翰博士。
So Doctor.
约翰，我们直接回到正题吧。
John, let's just jump right back into it.
你知道吗，你的研究里还提到过自我披露的决定。
You know, you also, in your work, you talk about disclosure decisions.
对。
Mhmm.
你能给听众，也给我解释一下吗？
Can you explain to the person listening and to me?
当然可以。
Yes.
什么是自我披露的决定？
What is a disclosure decision?
这个问题我喜欢。
I love that.
所谓自我披露的决定，就是你选择要不要把某件事说出来。
So a disclosure decision is simply a decision of whether to reveal something or to not reveal something.
我们很多披露的决定都是在不知不觉中做出的。
So many of our disclosure decisions ride under surface.
我们根本没意识到自己正在做这些选择。
We don't even realize we are making these decisions.
很多时候，我们只是默认选择了沉默。
So often, we just kind of default to silence.
我们甚至不会去想敞开心扉的可能性。
We don't even consider the possibility of opening up.
所以我想做的是，
And so what I'd like to do Yeah.
来做一个小演示，帮我们更好地理解这一点。
Is I'd like to do a little demo here to help us understand this a little bit.
来看看披露决定在一天中的样子。
A day in the life of disclosure decisions.
好的。
Okay.
所以你要带我们走一遍普通的一天，指出那些你在人际交往中潜意识里决定闭口不言的瞬间？
So you're gonna walk us through the average day, and you're gonna point out all of these subconscious moments where something is happening in your interpersonal life and you just decide not to say anything?
对。
Yes.
我感觉这过程可能会挺难受的。
Oh, I have a feeling it's gonna be painful.
明白了。
Okay.
就是普普通通、平平无奇的一天，而这正是关键所在。
It's just gonna be an average boring day, but that's the point.
没错。
Right?
普通又无聊的一天。
Average boring day.
还有医生。
And Doctor.
约翰弯下身去，她则往上拉。
John is reaching down and she is pulling up.
有个篮子，里面装着一些黄色的乒乓球似的玩意儿，像那种小威浮球。
There's a basket, and there are yellow ping pong ball things, like little wiffle ball things that she has in the basket.
就在那儿有一个。
There's one right there.
明白了。
Okay.
你听到了吧。
You hear it.
你能给我们讲讲接下来要发生什么吗？
And why don't you walk us through what's about to happen?
还有一个大玻璃罐。
And there's a big mason jar.
好的。
Okay.
接下来我来带大家梳理一下日常生活中那些关于信息披露的决策。
So I'm going to walk us through the day in a life of decision disclosure decisions.
我在这里的目的，是想把我们平时根本没意识到的一件事变得清晰可见——那就是我们实际上在不知不觉中做了多少次信息披露的决定。
And what my purpose here is I want to make visible something that is typically invisible in our lives, and that is the sheer number of disclosure decisions we actually make unknowingly.
这也让我们好好想想，你是开放的吗？你在主动透露信息吗？
And this is also helping us really consider, are you open, and are you revealing Mhmm.
现在发生了什么？
What's happening?
对。
Mhmm.
还是说你一直封闭着，对生活中的事隐瞒得太多？
Or are you staying closed and you're under sharing what's happening in your life?
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
当你在听的时候，就能感受到这一点的影响。
And, you know, as you're listening, you will be able to hear the impact of this.
但如果你在YouTube上观看，就会看到这个情况。
But as you're watching on YouTube, you're gonna see this.
没错。
Right.
所以我这里有
So I have
这个广口玻璃瓶。
this mason jar here.
这个广口瓶代表的是你心里想过的、却没说出口的话。
What this mason jar represents is it represents the things that you thought but did not say.
说实话，你根本就没想过要把这些话说出来。
In fact, you didn't even consider saying them, frankly.
所以，好吧。
So okay.
这些小球就代表你的想法。
And these are gonna be your thoughts.
每一个
Each one of
小球
these little balls
都代表一个过程。
are the process.
好吧。
Okay.
你的想法，那些没说出口的。
Is your thoughts, the unsaid.
好的。
Okay.
你早上醒来的时候。
So you wake up in the morning.
在床上翻个身。
You roll over in bed.
抱住你的伴侣。
You hug your spouse.
你说：我爱你。
You say, I love you.
然后你心里想：唉，今天状态真差。
And then you think to yourself, oh, I feel so crappy.
睡得简直糟透了。
I had the worst sleep.
所以你能听到，这是你内心第一个被压抑的真实感受。
So you can hear that's your first thought feeling that you have suppressed, really.
你可能没意识到这是压抑，但我们正试着让你觉察到这一点。
You haven't thought of it as suppression, but we're trying to bring awareness to this.
然后你心想，天啊，今天情绪肯定很难控制，因为一睡不好，我就特别容易失控。
And then you think, jeez, I'm gonna be really it's gonna be hard to regulate my emotions today because when I'm sleep deprived, that's really hard.
接下来是第二个球，放进罐子里。
Next one in the ball in the jar.
然后你走向洗手间。
Then you go over to the bathroom.
你站在配偶旁边。
You're standing beside your spouse.
你开始刷牙。
You're starting to brush your teeth.
你看着镜子里的自己，心想，外表看起来还行，但就是不喜欢现在的样子。
You look at yourself in the mirror, and you think, I look fine, but I don't love the way I look.
你心想，我真的以为到了这个年纪，自己会感觉更年轻一些。
You think, you know, I really I really thought I would feel younger at this age.
可我现在觉得，比想象中老多了。
I feel older than I thought I would.
然后你们俩一起下楼去了厨房。
Then you both go down to the kitchen.
孩子们在屋里跑来跑去，你丈夫或配偶开始为他们准备午餐，这时对方对你说：嘿。
Your kids are frolicking and scampering about, and your husband or your spouse starts making their lunch for the day, and the the spouse says to you, hey.
你觉得他们想干什么？
What do you think they want?
你觉得他们想吃点什么零食？
What do you think they want for snack?
你就说，随便给他们点什么就行。
And you say, just give them something.
别说了。
Stop.
你随便选一个吧。
Just just you pick.
配偶说：哇哦。
Spouse says, woah.
你心里想：天哪。
And you think, oh my gosh.
我真的太累了。
I'm just so exhausted.
今天我就想多点空间，实在撑不住了，就想要个拥抱。
I just need a little bit more leeway today because I'm so tired, and I really just need a hug.
我马上要有个重要演讲，压力大得不行。
And I've got this big presentation coming up, and I'm so overwhelmed.
这些话你一句都没说。
You don't say any of these things.
相反，你跟丈夫吵了起来，因为他问：什么？
Instead, you're now in a fight with your husband because your husband's like, what?
我或者你配偶，怎么了？
I'm or your spouse, what?
我这可是在做好事。
I'm doing something nice.
你上了车。
You get in the car.
你开始开车去上班。
You start driving to work.
你爸爸给你打来电话。
Your father calls you.
你心想，天哪。
You think, oh, jeez.
啊？
What?
我爸这是要干嘛？
What's my father doing?
因为你突然意识到，他在开车。
Because you realize that he's driving.
我爸爸在开车。
My father is driving.
我爸爸不该开车。
My father shouldn't be behind the wheel.
你心里想，他真能开车吗？
You're like, should he be behind the wheel?
我觉得他的视力不够好。
I don't think his eyesight is good enough.
我觉得他不该开车。
I don't think he should be behind the wheel.
但你只是说，爸，等等。
But instead, you just say, hey, dad.
咱们等你开完车再聊吧。
Let's have let's let's let's talk later when you're not driving.
你去上班了。
You get to work.
你的助理问你：最近怎么样？
Your assistant says, how are doing?
你回答：挺好的。
You say, great.
你没说的是：我快撑不住了。
What you don't say is, I'm feeling overwhelmed.
今天有个重要的汇报。
I've got a big presentation today.
你进了办公室。
You get into your office.
这种事我能说一整天，对吧？
I could go on and on, right?
你进了办公室，你的工作搭档进来了。
You get into your office and your work bestie comes in.
他们问你，最近怎么样？
They say, how are doing?
今天有什么安排？
What's on tap today?
你说，有个重要会议，还要做一场大汇报。
You say, I got a big meeting, big presentation.
我特别期待。
I'm super excited.
但你没说的是，其实有点紧张。
What you don't say is, I'm feeling anxious.
要不咱们先一起过一遍开头？
Maybe we could go through the beginning together.
这样可能会让我好一点。
That might help me.
就这么一直继续下去。
And on and on.
我已经在这儿撑满了。
And I'm already full here.
现在才九点半呢。
I think it's only 09:30.
没错。
Exactly.
你可以想象，到了下午，老板走过来对你说：干得漂亮。
Like you can think of then later in the day, your boss comes, says, congrats.
演讲太棒了。
Great job on the presentation.
你回一句：谢谢。
And you say, thanks.
但你其实可以这么说：你根本不知道这对我有多重要。
But what you could have said is, you have no idea what that means to me.
我当时紧张得要命，但还是完美完成了。
I was super anxious, and I crushed it.
我为自己感到特别骄傲。
And I'm so proud of myself.
也许你可以多给我一些发言的机会，因为我真的特别喜欢。
And maybe you could give me more opportunities to speak because I love it so much.
这其实关系到职业发展。
And then it's like career advancement.
对吧？
Right?
所以我想说的是，我不是建议我们把所有这些话都大声说出来。
So the point here is not to I'm not saying we should say all of these things out loud.
那会乱套的。
That would be chaos.
我们之所以不说，其实有很多正当的理由。
We there's lots of good reasons why we withhold.
我们在体谅别人。
We're being kind.
我们没时间去处理这些事。
We don't have the time to get to it.
我们这是在策略性地保留。
We're being strategic.
你知道，我们的助理总会问我们过得怎么样。
You know, our assistant asks us how we're doing.
我们不想给他们添负担。
We don't wanna bog them down.
我们只想来个简单轻松的回答。
We want a quick, easy, breezy.
但对工作上的密友，我们却不敢说其实有点焦虑。
But our work bestie, like, we can't tell them we're feeling a little anxious.
他们可能会给你一个拥抱。
They could give you a hug.
他们可能会说，我最近也感觉一样。
They could say, oh, I've been feeling the same way.
他们可能会说
They could they could say
太多话了。
so many things.
他们无论说什么，都会对你有帮助。
Almost anything they say will be helpful.
这个例子真正有力的地方在于，不管你只是听到，还是看着这些没说出口的话一点点堆积起来，你都会感受到自己有多沉重。
You know, what's really powerful about this example, whether you're just hearing the or you're watching all of these unsaid things pile up is you feel how weighed down you are.
我特别想听听，长期压抑情绪对你的精力、心情或者健康会有什么影响。
And what I would love to hear is what is the implication in terms of your energy or your mood or your own health Mhmm.
长期隐瞒真实感受，对你的幸福感会有什么影响。
Your happiness from constantly withholding Mhmm.
还有过度保留。
And undersharing.
对。
Mhmm.
没错。
Right.
关于隐瞒和压抑，我们其实知道很多。
So there is a lot that we know about undersharing, withholding.
这对我们的心理和身体健康危害很大。
It's really bad for our mental and physical health.
比如，当我们保守秘密时，往往会反复琢磨，这会降低专注力。
So for example, when we keep secrets, we tend to ruminate about them, and that decreases mental focus.
研究显示，保守秘密真的会暂时降低你的智商测试成绩。
It it it literally lowers your IQ one tests when you're holding secrets.
它还和整体幸福感下降有关。
It also is associated with decreased well-being.
那些长期保守秘密的人，身体健康的客观指标也更差。
Like, people who hold secrets, they have lower objective measures of physical health.
所以，这背后牵涉到各种健康问题。
So there's there's all kinds of health issues.
我这会儿主要说的是对身心健康的直接影响。
And and I'm just getting at the, like, physical mental health.
我还没说到因为你不愿敞开心扉，而错失了关系本可以达到的深度，以及由此带来的各种问题。
I'm not even getting at the missed opportunities of what your relationship could be and the problems you're causing by not opening up.
对吧？
Right?
如果我们只拿一个例子来说，确实如此。
Well, if we just take the example Yeah.
比如错失的联结机会，还有你刚才说的——一个人先开口说：‘我做了一个可怕的梦。’
Like, the missed opportunities and what you just said is connection with the person first saying, I had a scary dream.
天哪。
Oh my god.
我越说越觉得是这样。
I'm getting really Yeah.
你其实错失了情感上的联结和安慰。
He likes you're missing connection reassurance.
是的。
Yes.
当你照镜子的时候，如果只是对自己说‘我老了’，我通常会想，天啊，你看起来……
When you look in the mirror and you were nice to yourself by just saying you're old, I'm normally like, god, you look
糟透了。
terrible.
我并没有刻意美化自己。
I don't say I'm filtering a little bit.
对。
Yeah.
明白。
Know.
对。
Yeah.
比如，如果我对克里斯说
Like, but if I say to Chris
我到现在还长痘。
I still have acne.
我都四十多岁了。
I'm in my forties.
这到底是怎么回事？
What's up with that?
看来你的荷尔蒙还在活跃。
Apparently, your hormones are still working.
这就是原因。
That's what's up with that.
是的。
Yeah.
但我说给克里斯听的时候，就觉得最近特别难看。
But, know, when I say to Chris, I just feel really ugly lately.
我总觉得不够好看，他总安慰我。
I just feel unattract he always reassures me.
是的。
Yeah.
而且我觉得现在没那么困扰我了。
And it feels like it has less of a grip on me.
对。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
从工作上来说，你缺少了应有的支持。
In terms of work, you're missing out on getting the support that you need.
还有一件事一直让我很在意，我不知道你听医生讲话的时候有没有注意到。
The other thing that kept really striking me, and I don't know if it really hit you as you were listening or watching to Doctor.
约翰，每次那个球掉下来，我都感觉到有人觉得所有压力都压在自己肩上，好像一切都得靠他一个人扛。
John, is how every time that ball dropped, I felt the weight of somebody feeling like everything was on their shoulders, that it was all up to them.
是的。
Yeah.
好像他们只能自己硬扛，没人帮他们解决。
That nobody that they had to figure it out on their own.
对。
Yep.
看这个过程挺有意思的，因为这一直是我努力想改变的一个想法——总觉得所有事都得自己扛。
And it was interesting to watch that because I think that's been one of my big stories that I've been working to change, which is, oh, it's all up to me.
没错。
Oh, yeah.
而且这种情况还经常被强化，对。
But and a lot of that gets reinforced Yep.
你要是从不敞开心扉，确实如此。
When you don't open up Totally.
不跟别人说你正在经历什么，也不说你心里的真实感受。
About what you're dealing with or you don't open up about the emotions that you're feeling.
没错。
Right.
你就是一直压着，压着，压着，压着不放。
You just bury it and bury it and bury it and bury it.
实际上，我家也在处理类似的问题。我跟科林说，我每天要做的决定实在太多了，累得不行。
In fact, we it's something in my household I'm working on as well, and I said to Colin, I'm really exhausted by the number of decisions I need to make every day.
不是关于坦白的决定，而是像吃点什么这种小事。
Not disclosure decisions, but, like, snack.
我跟他说了之后，他才明白我没法让他猜，现在他就主动做决定了。
And and so just telling him that, he's he he he couldn't read my mind, and now he's just making decisions.
我说，你直接做决定就好。
I said, I would love for you to just make the decision.
如果我不赞成，我会告诉你。
If I disagree, I'll tell you.
我有个特别要好的朋友，母亲节那天，她特别了解自己。
But so that I have a a dear friend of mine who, for Mother's Day, she she's so in tune with herself.
母亲节那天，她要求自己一个决定都不做。
For Mother's Day, she asked to make zero decisions.
那简直太棒了。
It was so awesome.
这听起来是不是特别惬意？
Doesn't that sound so blissful?
但这也正是关键所在——要想做好这件事，你得有自知之明。
But this is also part of the point, which is that in order to do this well, you have to have self awareness.
你得真正明白自己内心的状态。
You have to really understand what's going on in your mental state.
所以，像表达自己的感受这类事，还有大量科学研究表明，无论是跟治疗师倾诉，还是写在日记里，都能带来极大的疗愈效果。
And so even things like like sharing your feelings and all the the things the the scientific research on how opening up, whether it's to a therapist or writing it down in a journal, that is extremely therapeutic for us.
它能帮我们梳理情绪。
It helps us process our feelings.
它能让我们感觉更好。
It helps us feel better.
要想做到这一点，你就得对自己心理状态有清晰的认识。
In order to do that well, you have to have insight into your psychological state.
当我开始这么做的时候，这也是为什么我再说一遍，我把自己的经历当作实验品，因为我曾经是个情感文盲。我记得有一次，我的咨询师问我……
And when I when I started doing this, and this is why, again, I'm telling you I was a guinea pig because if if like, I'm a recovering emotional illiterate because I went well, my therapist, I was I don't know.
他当时在关注某件事。
Was fetching about something.
然后他问我：那你感觉怎么样？
And he's like, well, how do you feel?
我当时回答的却是我的想法。
And I I was saying cognitions.
你懂的吧？
You know?
比如，我觉得自己被困住了，或者类似的感觉。
Like, I feel trapped or whatever.
我觉得这说不通。
I feel like this doesn't make sense.
他说，这些都是情绪化的想法。
He's like, those are thoughts of feeling.
我就直接问他了：什么是情绪？
I'm like then I literally asked him, what is a feeling?
我是说，你都拿博士学位了，情绪到底是什么？
Like, PHD, what is a feeling?
然后他给了我一个叫‘情绪轮’的东西，我在书里也放了这个图，真的特别有用，能帮你搞清楚自己到底在感受什么。
And then he handed me this thing called an emotions wheel, which I I printed a version of that in the book, which I found so helpful, which helps you to really figure out what you're feeling.
如果你从最基础的情绪开始，比如说，我书里用的那个版本，对我这种完全不懂情绪的人来说，特别友好。
And if you start with a really core feeling so for example, the way the wheel works is you start off with you just ask yourself the version I have in my book is, like, super, for me, emotional illiterate.
它一开始就是个特别简单的问题，比如：感觉好，还是感觉不好。
So it starts off with a very simple question, like, thumbs up, thumbs down.
正面的，还是负面的。
Positive, negative.
明白了。
Okay.
我懂了。
I got that.
接下来，这个圆圈的外一层会更细致一些，就是判断这种情绪是不是很有活力。
Then the next layer out of this circle is getting a little bit more refined, which is simply, is this an emotion that's very arousing?
比如，它背后是不是充满能量，还是更偏向平静那种低能量的状态？
Like, is there there's a lot of energy behind it, or is it more of a non arousal energy, like a calm?
结果发现，一共有四种组合。
And it turns out there's four combinations.
对吧？
Right?
所以，你可以有积极且高能量的情绪，比如喜悦、兴奋。
So you could have you could have a positive that's really active, like joy, excitement.
也可以有积极但低能量的情绪，比如平静。
You can also have a positive emotion that's low arousal, like like calm.
负面情绪也是一样，像愤怒、狂怒，都是强烈而活跃的。
The same is true about negative things like anger, rage.
但像无聊这种，就属于比较平淡的类型。等你弄清楚这些，下一步就能进一步细分了，不过我先不展开讲了，再外一圈就是像愤怒这样的具体情绪。
Those are full force active, but like boredom would be something that's more and so and then once you get those, you can get I won't go into deals now, but the next ring is like anger.
好的。
Okay.
是失望吗？
Is it disappointment?
是愤怒吗？
Is it rage?
对吧？
Right?
你可以直接指出，就是这个，这个，还有这个。
And you can, like, literally, like, oh, that one, that one, that one.
这就是我。
That's me.
一旦你开始这么做，就能丰富自己的情绪表达，更清楚地认识自己，也能更好地与人沟通。
And once you start doing this, you expand your emotional vocabulary, which helps you understand yourself better, which helps you communicate better.
那么，这个简单的分类法有什么用呢？比如，我此刻是感觉好还是不好？
Well, what's helpful about that very simple construct, am I feeling good or bad?
是的
Yep.
而且我是想做点什么，还是觉得没劲，或者心里挺低落的？
And am I feeling like I wanna do something about it, or am I, like, energy, or am I feeling low about it?
对
Mhmm.
对
Mhmm.
就连你躺在床上，跟爱人说‘我爱你’的时候，如果突然意识到——
That just even considering that, if you're laying in bed and you're like, I love you, honey.
等等，我现在其实挺难受的。
And then you're like, wait, I I feel bad right now.
没错
Yeah.
这让我感觉更糟了。
And it's like bringing me down.
是的。
Yeah.
这是一种察觉到不对劲的方式。
A way to access in that, like, something's up.
就是今天感觉特别没劲。
Like, just feel really low energy today.
你能抱抱我吗？
Can you give me a hug?
你现在只是
Now you just
我明白你的意思。
I see what you're saying.
能量确实能作为一个信号，帮你更清楚地理解自己的状态。
Like, the energy can serve as a cue to help you understand for sure.
没错。
For sure.
我特别喜欢这一点。
I love that.
对。
Yeah.
咱们来提炼一个特别具体的要点吧。
Let's just give, like, a really specific takeaway.
比如说，你听了或看了这一集之后。
So let's say you listen to this episode or you watch it.
到晚上回家的时候。
You go home at the end of the day.
是的。
Yeah.
你伴侣问你：今天过得怎么样？
Your partner's like, how is your day?
就只说还行？
Only fine?
还是哪里不对劲？
Or what's wrong?
你却说，没什么。
You're like, nothing.
我说的就是这种情形。
That's I'm talking about.
对。
Yeah.
你有没有那种
Do you have Yeah.
简单又快速的方法，能让自己哪怕累得不想说话，也稍微敞开心扉一点？
Any kinda easy, quick ways to make yourself a little bit more open even if you're exhausted and you don't wanna talk?
有。
Yes.
如果你累得不想说话，可以先缓一缓，说：我现在太累了，不想聊，但谢谢你关心。
Well, so if you're exhausted and you don't wanna talk, you can defer it and say, I'm exhausted and I don't wanna talk, But thank you for asking.
让我喝点东西，或者放松一下。
Let me have a drink or let me have a relaxation time.
对吧？
Right?
这主意真好。
So Love it.
第一条。
Number one.
但如果你愿意交流，那就完成两个句子。
But if you are ready to engage, you're gonna do you're gonna do two complete the sentence.
明白吗？
Okay?
你要做两件事。
You're gonna do two.
第一件，也是最重要的一件，你说：我感觉。
The first one, which is the most important, you're gonna say, I feel.
你得把这句话说完。
You're gonna complete that sentence.
然后你说‘我需要’，再把这句话补全。
And then you're gonna say, I need, and you're gonna complete that sentence.
‘我感觉’这部分更重要。
The I feel is even more important.
有时候你也不清楚自己到底需要什么，可能对需求说得有点模糊。
Sometimes you don't know what you need, and maybe you rough a bit on what you need.
但‘我感觉’真的非常关键。
But I feel is is really crucial.
它特别重要，因为比想法更脆弱。
It's really crucial because it is more vulnerable than a thought.
而且因为我们谈的是亲密关系，当你表现出脆弱时，就会让人想关心你。
And because it's more and we're talking about a personal close relationship, when we show some vulnerability, it invites care.
它也不像想法那样容易被争论。
It's also not debatable the way a thought is.
想法是由对错和逻辑决定的。
Thoughts are dictated by right and wrong and logic.
所以如果你说出你的感受，感受就是感受。
And so if you say how you feel, feelings are feelings.
它们是合理的。
Like, they're valid.
不过这可能没听起来那么简单，有时候你列出的只是形容词，而不是真正的情绪，我们之前也常犯这种错，得真正深入到感受里去。
Now it might not be as easy as it seems because sometimes you list adjectives instead of thoughts, and and we've kinda been there that you wanna really get into feelings.
我觉得这其实挺容易的。
I think that's very easy.
我觉得这太简单了。
Like, I think this is so simple.
好的。
Okay.
很好。
Good.
很好。
Good.
因为如果你在想
Because if you're
你回想今天过得怎么样，发现自己觉得压力很大。
thinking about how was your day and you're like, I feel overwhelmed.
对。
Yeah.
完全没错。
Totally.
或者我为自己感到骄傲。
Or I feel proud of myself.
是的。
Yeah.
我都不知道自己需要什么，因为实在太有压力了。
I don't even know what I need because I'm so overwhelmed.
没错。
Right.
这跟说‘还行’完全是两回事。
Like, that's a different conversation than fine.
对。
Yep.
如果有人问你怎么了，你却说我现在有点搞不清楚自己的感受，
If somebody says what's wrong and you say, I feel kinda confused about
是的。
Yeah.
我到底怎么了，自己都说不上来。
How I'm feeling right now.
我根本不知道。
I don't even know
到底哪里不对。
what's wrong.
我现在的感受。
How I feel.
对。
Yes.
我彻底不用‘还好’这个词了。
And I banish the word fine.
第三条规则就是别再说‘还好’了。
And that third rule is don't say fine.
我喜欢，因为简单，咱们都能用这两句话。
I like it because it's simple, and we can all take those two sentences.
我感觉，我需要。
I feel, I need.
我就是这么觉得。
I feel exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
你也可以对同事这么做。
And you can do that with a work colleague too.
我感觉，我需要。
I feel and I need.
我也喜欢说‘我需要’，因为这样能帮你更清楚地了解自己真正需要什么，好好想想自己到底想要什么。
And I like I need too because the reason I like I need, it helps you get you in touch with yourself of what you need and think about what you need.
而且这样也有帮助，因为你的伴侣又不是读心专家，你得直接说出来你想要什么。
And it helps to because your partner can't read your mind, say what you need.
比如，我需要一个拥抱。
And so some examples may include, I need a hug.
我需要你只是好好听我说。
I need you to just listen.
我不是想让你解决问题。
I don't wanna fix.
我就是需要你听我说。
I just need you to listen.
我希望你能站在我这边。
I need you to be on my side.
我需要你帮我看看，我这样想是不是对的。
I need you to help me see if I'm thinking through this the right way.
我需要你帮我找出我漏掉了什么。
I need you to help me figure out what I'm missing.
对吧？
Right?
我所需要的，就这么多了。
All I need.
这句话你可以用很多种方式说完。
You can finish that in so many different ways.
我需要的东西不止一个。
I need multiple things.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这其实很简单，但特别有效。
It's really simple and powerful.
医生。
Doctor.
约翰，我还有很多问题想问你，但咱们先停一下，因为这段对话特别关键——你听或看的时候，肯定也会想：哎，我平时也这样。
John, I have so many more questions that I want to ask you, but let's just pause for a second because this part of the conversation is one of those moments where I know as you're listening or watching, you're thinking, oh, wait, I do that.
我选择沉默。
I stay silent.
我试着把事情轻轻带过。
I smooth it over.
我告诉自己，不值得提出来。
I tell myself it's not worth bringing up.
我不知道你怎么样，但我已经开始在脑子里回放她说的那些话，回放很多我本该开口却没说的场景，心里一遍遍问：我为啥当时不说呢？
And I don't know about you, but I'm already starting to replay a lot of what she's saying and replaying a lot of things where I'm like, why didn't I just say something?
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