如何成为你一直想成为的人

嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。你有没有上过飞机？当你穿过头等舱时，会忍不住环顾四周，心想：哇，这真不错。可你只是耸耸肩，一路走到机尾，嘴里还说着：哦，不好意思，亲爱的，我的座位在中间那儿，谢谢。你能想象这样一个世界吗——你不再只是看看然后说一句“那真好”就放弃机会，而是停下脚步，环顾四周，对自己说：你知道吗，我觉得前面这地方，就是属于我的。

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Have you ever gotten on a plane? And as you're passing through first class, you kinda look around and think, well this would be nice. But then you just shrug your shoulders and you walk all the way to the back of the plane and you're, oh, excuse me, sweetie, I'm right there in the middle seat, thank you. Can you imagine a world where instead of looking around and saying that would be nice and then you dismiss your chance of getting it, you actually stop and look around and say, you know what, I think this thing up here, this is for me.

我想坐在这里。这些才是我的同类。也许你想坐的不是头等舱，但总有你真正想要的东西。我想让你明白，实现愿望的第一步，就是敢于自信地宣告：这就是我想要的。今天的对话，就是你去追求人生所想的通行证——无论那是坐头等舱、毫无歉意地怀抱雄心、为自己挺身而出、大胆表达，还是做出你想做的改变。

I'd like to be up here. These are my people. And look, you may not wanna fly first class, but there are things that you do want. And I want you to consider that the first step to achieving the things that you want is having the confidence to claim what you want. Today's conversation is the permission you need to go after what you want in life, whether that is flying first class or being unapologetically ambitious or standing up for yourself or speaking your mind or making the changes you wanna make.

你即将见到的人会告诉你：如果你曾对自己说“我做不到”，那你就错了。独一无二的切尔西·汉德勒来了。她是史上最成功的喜剧演员之一，著有六本连续登顶《纽约时报》畅销榜的书。

The person you're about to meet is gonna tell you if you have ever told yourself, why I can't make that happen. You're wrong. The one and only Chelsea Handler is here. Now Chelsea is one of the most successful comedians of all time. She's the author of six consecutive number one New York Times bestsellers.

我刚读完她最新的畅销书，我得承认一件事：我完全误解了切尔西·汉德勒。我根本不知道她真正的内核是谁。我从她身上学到很多，也被她深深激励。你即将听到她那些爆笑又曲折的故事，以及她用艰难方式换来的教训。

I just read her latest bestselling book and I'm gonna admit something to you. I had Chelsea Handler all wrong. I had no idea who she actually is at her core. I've learned a lot from her. I am inspired by her And you're about to hear the hilarious twists and turns and the lessons that she has learned the hard way.

这些教训你我都用得上——关于自信、做自己、放下愤怒、搞砸后重新站起、在至暗时刻寻找灵感，以及笑声的力量。最重要的是，切尔西会谈到：当你允许自己想要什么就承认什么，并毫不歉意地做自己时，那种自信会油然而生。她会告诉你，你体内有一股自己都不知道的力量储备，而今天你将学会如何开启它。嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。能与你共度时光始终是我的荣幸，我很高兴你在这里。

These are lessons that you and I can use about confidence, being yourself, getting rid of anger, picking yourself up when you blow it, finding inspiration in the darkest moments, and the power of laughter. But most of all, Chelsea's gonna talk about the confidence that comes when you give yourself permission to want what you want and be unapologetically who you are. Chelsea's gonna tell you, you have a reservoir of strength that you don't even know about, but you're gonna learn today how to tap into it. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. It is always such an honor to be together and spend time with you, and I'm so excited that you're here.

因为你特意来听这一期，所以我了解你：你准备好不再渺小度日，而要开始更宏大的生活。如果你是新听众，或因为有人分享而来，我要亲自欢迎你加入梅尔·罗宾斯播客大家庭。今天到场的是独一无二的切尔西·汉德勒。她是标志性喜剧演员、演员、作家和制作人。

And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. You're the kind of person who is ready to stop playing small and start living a bigger life. And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you, I just want to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Here today is the one and only Chelsea Handler. Chelsea is an iconic comedian, actress, writer, and producer.

她主演过五档电视节目，在HBO和Netflix推出多部脱口秀专场，两次获得格莱美提名，还著有六本连续登顶《纽约时报》畅销榜的书。她最新的畅销书《我也要她那样的》深刻又爆笑，分享了她人生中最疯狂故事背后的曲折与教训——那些后悔的错误、最黑暗的时光，以及她一次次自我重塑所学到的一切，而且常常边学边笑。切尔西今天来把这些洞察和工具分享给你我，让你不再渺小，开始更大的生活。

She has starred in five television shows, multiple stand up comedy specials on HBO and Netflix. She's been nominated for two Grammys. She's also the author of six consecutive number one New York Times bestselling books. And her latest bestseller, I'll Have What She's Having, is a profound and hysterical book that shares the twists and turns and lessons behind some of the craziest stories of her life, regrettable mistakes that she's made, darkest times, and everything that she has learned to pick herself back up and reinvent herself again and again and again, and oftentimes still smile while she was doing it. Chelsea is here to share those insights and tools with you and me so you can stop playing small and start living a bigger life.

请和我一起欢迎切尔西·汉德勒来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。切尔西，我很高兴你来了。光看履历，从二十年来标志性喜剧演员、七本《纽约时报》畅销书、五档不同的电视节目，到你正在经营的传媒公司、连续创业，成就斐然。我最欣赏你的一点是：每个读过《我也要她那样的》的人都爱上了你。

Please help me welcome Chelsea Handler to the Mel Robbins podcast. Chelsea, I'm so excited that you're here. I mean, on paper, when you look at all your accomplishments from being an iconic comedian for twenty years, seven New York Times bestsellers, five different television shows. You have so many extraordinary experiences, a media company that you are running, serial entrepreneur. And one of the things that I appreciate the most about you is everybody who read this book, I'll Have What She's Having, fell in love with you.

我觉得大家并不真正理解你内核里是多么非凡的人——外界的印象或报道，与真实的你、你的使命、你成为的人以及你在世界上的表达，有着巨大差异。所以我特别激动，因为和我一样，你是用艰难方式学到这些的。这本书精彩地拆解了那些错误、遗憾、教训，让你真正连接到核心自我。我们将深入书中的大量智慧与爆笑故事，但我想先请你直接对我们听众说。

And I don't think people understand truly what a remarkable human being you are at your core. That there is a very big difference between the perception or what may have been written and actually at your core in your purpose, who you have become and the expression that you are in the world. And so I am really thrilled because like me, you learn this shit the hard way. And this book brilliantly unpacks the mistakes, the regrets, the lessons learned that got you to truly connect with who you are at your core. And we're gonna unpack so much of the wisdom in this book, the hilarious stories, but I would love to start by having you speak directly to the person who's with us.

如果想想你书中的所有收获、你学到的教训、你想分享的东西，尤其是想告诉其他女性的，那么要是她们今天真正把你要教我们的东西听进心里，并应用到自己的生活，会有什么不同？

And if you think about all of the takeaways in your book and the lessons that you've learned and the things that you want to share, particularly with other women, what could be different about their life if they really take to heart some of the things that you're about to teach us today and they apply it in their own life?

我觉得积极和乐观是会传染的，对吧？虽然有时感觉毫无希望，有时你会很低落，我们都可以为自己的生活不如意而开自怜派对。但总有不同的视角去看待一切。而且没有人能够完美地总是看到自己生活中的积极面。

I think that positivity and optimism is contagious. Right? While sometimes it feels hopeless and sometimes you are so down and we can all get into pity parties about what's not going right in our lives. There's always a different lens to look at everything. And and no one is perfect at always looking at the positivity in their lives.

但当你更频繁地练习用积极视角去看事情时，那就会变成你的默认模式。然后就会产生一种吸引力。你吸引更多积极，因为你变得更积极。这些道理都是我在三十多岁时听到会觉得“ blah blah blah blah blah，闭嘴吧”的东西。

But when you get better at looking at it more frequently, then that becomes your default. And then there's there's a magnetism in that. You attract more positivity because you become more positive. And these are all things that when I was younger, in my thirties, I would be like, blah blah blah blah blah. Shut up.

我不想聊冥想。我不想聊那些在我看来都像是有人要把我引向脉轮的东西，你懂吧？但这确实有科学依据。只有当你真正与自己的内心相连，尽可能活在当下时，这些才有意义。然后你就会变得像一棵树一样。

I don't wanna talk about meditation. I don't wanna talk about everything to me seemed like somebody was leading me to a chakra, you know? But it is scientific. It only matters if you're a person who is really connected to who you are and to being in the moment as as much as you possibly can. Then you just become so kind of like a tree.

你知道，你是一棵树。你可以对我吹风，但我不会倒下。你可以摇晃我的叶子，也许会被吹落几片，但你永远动不了我根基分毫。

You know, you're a tree. You can, like, blow on me, but I'm not gonna fall over. You know, you can, like, rustle my leaves and I you might blow a few leaves off, but you're not ever going to fuck with the foundation of who I am.

不过以前可不是这样的。

It wasn't always that way though.

对，不是。我以前满屋子和天空乱飘，没有根基。像一片叶子。像——

No. No. I was all over the house and the sky, you know, not grounded. Like a leaf. Like a

树上的叶子，忘了自己其实有根。对，对。我觉得这本书很大程度上就是在讲这个，就是去弄清并记住你是谁——

leaf on a tree. Forgetting that you actually have roots. Yes. Yes. And I think that's a lot of actually what this book is about, is figuring out and remembering who you are Yes.

在你核心深处。

At your core.

而且我们在人生中常常与真正的自己失联。所以我想说，让自己重回正轨始终是你自己的责任。就像你老说的，没有人会来救你。没有人会被谁拯救。即便你自认为是个拯救他人的人，你也无法包办一切。

Also, we lose touch with who we are so often in our lives. So I would say that it is up to you to always get yourself back on the right track. Like you always say, no one's coming to save you. No one is coming to save anyone. Even if you consider yourself someone who saves other people, you can't do the whole job.

对吧？没有人会来把你带走。你必须拯救自己。而当你拯救了自己，你也就会拯救他人。这是其中一件——

Right? Like, no one is coming to get you. You have to save yourself. And by saving yourself, you're going to save other people. One of the things

我在你的故事中发现的迷人之处是，从非常非常小的时候起，你就对自己想成为什么样的人有着非常清晰的认识。事实上，我准备从你的《纽约时报》超级畅销书中读一段，关于你对自己的愿景。我喜欢这个。这是在书的最开头，是一个章节，叫“小女孩”。

that I found fascinating about your story is that from a very, very young age, you had a very clear idea of the kind of person that you wanted to be. In fact, I'm gonna read from your New York Times mega bestseller about the vision that you had for yourself. I love this. This is in the very beginning. It's a chapter, the little girl.

你写道，她会无比强大，这个我将要成为的女人。她会自信，从不犹豫为他人挺身而出，头脑敏锐，没有人会只称她为“漂亮脸蛋”。她会远不止于此。跟我说说你小时候是个什么样的孩子吧。因为不是每个小孩都对自己是谁有感觉。

You write, she would be nothing less than fierce, this woman I'd become. She would be confident and never hesitate to stick her neck out for other people with a mind so sharp, no one would ever call her just a pretty face. She'd be so much more than that. Tell me a little bit about the kind of little girl you were. Because not every little kid kinda has a sense of who they are.

但你，这让我觉得非常独特。

But you like, this struck me as, like, very unique about you.

我希望把这种对自己的愿景灌输给每一个小女孩。你知道吗？我写这本书的时候，就是想把自己被认为拥有的那种自信注入每个人。就像，我真希望有一支“自信版司美格鲁肽”注射器，给每个人来一针，然后说：你也可以自信满满。但随着我长大，是的，我天生就有一种特定的性格。

I would like to instill every little girl with this kind of vision of herself. You know? When I wrote this book, it was with the idea to inject everyone with the self confidence that people perceive me to have. Like, you know, I wish I had an Ozempic needle of confidence to give everybody and shoot everybody up and be like, you can be self assured and confident too. But as I've grown up, yes, I was born with a specific type of personality.

我的意思是，我可能看起来很自信。但我不想让任何人以为我时时刻刻都自信，完全不是这样。我的自信是逐步建立起来的，我也经历过信心低落的阶段。但作为一个很小的孩子，我就知道我有东西可以付出。不是说我比别人强，而是我对我想成为的女人有清晰的愿景。

I mean, I can come across as very confident. But I don't want anyone to think that I have confidence all the time in any way, shape, or form. I've built my confidence and I've gone through phases where I've had little confidence. But as a very young person, I knew I had something to offer. Not that I was better than anyone, but that I had I had a vision of of the woman that I wanted to be.

那个女人将会很强大，她会讲真话，她不会是一个追随者，而是一个领导者。对我来说，这一点非常重要——我不会只是照搬别人的做法，我要为自己开辟一条道路，因为我想成为女性气质的榜样。那时候我才六七岁，就开始思考如何成为一个女人。

And that woman was gonna be fierce, and she was gonna tell the truth, And she wasn't gonna be a follower. She was gonna be a leader. Like, that was very important to me that I wasn't just gonna do what other people did, that I was going to create a path for myself because I wanted to be an example of womanhood. And and this was when I was, like, six or seven years old. Was thinking about becoming becoming a woman.

我得把发夹拿下来，不然我要开始出汗了。就好像，我心里一直有一个我想成为的样子。我一直都知道我想独立，想变得强大，不想依赖任何人，也不想有丈夫。

I'm gonna get my hair clip out because I'm gonna start sweating. It was like, you know, I just had this idea of of, like, of what I wanted to be. I just always knew that I wanted to be independent. I wanted to be strong. I wasn't gonna rely on anyone, like, or have a husband.

那甚至不在我的视野里。我从来没想过“我要长大、结婚、找工作、上大学、生孩子”。我从来没这么想过。我会说，哇，哇。

Like, that wasn't even in my purview or, I mean, I just never identified with that I'm gonna grow up and I'm gonna get married. I'm gonna get a job. I'm gonna go to college and I'm gonna have kids. I never ever thought that. I was like, woah, woah.

那很酷。我可以按自己的方式来做，我可以独立。我最想成为的是家里的“ patriarch”，我想成为那个处理一切的人。所以我更认同一种男性化的角色，而不是传统的女性角色。

That's cool. Like, could do this my own way and I can be independent. And I wanted to be more than anything, I wanted to be a patriarch, like, to my family. Like, I wanted to be the one who handled everything. So I identified more with, like, a masculine role than I did with your traditional feminine role.

但我确实是个女人。所以那个角色也存在。

But I am a woman. So that role is there

我们也要吸取的教训。我在《华尔街日报》上读到一篇你写的精彩专栏。我小时候是个麻烦精。很小的时候我就清楚地意识到，家里掌权的两个人是我最不信任的人。家里毫无规矩，充满了不确定性。

for us to take as well. Well, I read in this great op ed that was published in the Wall Street Journal that you wrote. I was a handful growing up. At a young age, I had a very clear understanding that the two people in charge of our family were the two people I had the least confidence in. There was no structure at home and a lot of uncertainty.

而你的故事有趣之处在于，很多人看到现状会说“我想要那样”。你却看到现状说“我不想要那样”。对，这是一个重要的启示。因为如果你正在听或看，心里想着“她都60多岁了，怎么还能有那种‘我现在就要’的感觉”，你会对这样的人说什么？因为确实很有吸引力。

And what's interesting about your story is that a lot of people see what's going on and say, I want that. You saw what was going on and said, I don't want that. Right. And that's an important takeaway because if you're somebody that's listening or watching right now and you're thinking, how the hell does she have that sense of, I want that shit now and I'm in my 60s. What would you say to a person that's hearing you because it is enticing.

听你这样一一列出自己想成为的样子，实在太性感了。你很少听到有人这样直白地说“我想有这种感觉”，而且我们还应该这么做。所以，如果有人听了想“我也要她那样的”，你会说什么？该怎么喝下去？

It is so sexy to hear you state all these things that you want to be. You rarely hear anybody say it like that with this like, I want to feel this way, and we should be doing it. So what would you say to somebody who's listening like, I'll have what she's having? Would say Just how do I drink it?

嗯，首先，不管你多大年纪，不管你现在处境如何。如果你身处一段不想继续的婚姻，或做着不想干的工作，或住在一个不想待的城市，无论什么情况，哪怕你生病了，你都有能力掌控自己的人生，对自己的决定拥有自主权，不必把幸福拴在别人身上。

Yeah. Yeah. First of all, it's it doesn't matter what age you are. It doesn't matter what your situation is right now. If you're in a marriage that you don't wanna be in or if you're in a job you don't wanna be in or if you're in a city that you don't wanna live in, whatever your situation is, you even if you're sick, you have the ability to take control of your life and and have autonomy over your decisions and not be tethered to anybody else regarding your happiness.

我们不必为他人的幸福负责。我们可以选择那样做，但提供幸福并不是我们的责任。作为喜剧演员，我觉得在舞台上的职责就是传播欢乐和阳光，我主动选择了这份工作。

Like we don't have to be responsible for other people's happiness. That's a choice that we can make. But it is not our responsibility to provide other people with happiness. As comedian, I feel like it is my job to spread joy and sunshine when I'm on stage. I've chosen that to be my job.

可你不能命令我这么做，否则我就不想干了。你懂我意思吧？对，懂。

Like you can't tell me to do that. Then I won't want to. You know what I mean? Right. Yes.

所以我想，首先，不管你多大，没有人是不可救药的。你永远不会“熟透”。只要你还在，就有机会让生活变得精彩。

And so I think a lot of people, I think, first of all, it doesn't matter how old you are. No one is unrecoverable. You're never cooked. You're here. As long as you're here, you have an opportunity to make your life great.

你就是最好的例子。我们都知道你的故事，知道你在最黑暗的时刻如何重新站起来。每个人都有这种能力，内心有一股自己可能都不知道的力量，但它确实存在。

You're a perfect example of that. We all know your story and how you picked yourself up off the floor when you were in your darkest hour. Everybody has the capability and an inner reservoir of strength that many people know nothing about. But it's there.

我在你的书里很早就学到一课，我来读一段，然后迫不及待想听你讲这个故事。在第9页，章节叫《头等舱》。这一课讲的是：允许自己去争取想要的东西，即使看起来荒唐。你当时正第一次坐飞机横跨全国去看祖父母。

One of the lessons that I picked up very early on in your book, and I'm gonna read you a little bit, and then I cannot wait to hear you tell this story. This is on page nine. It's chapter called First Class. And this is a lesson about allowing yourself to claim the thing you want, even if it seems ridiculous. And you're talking you're literally talking about getting on your very first plane ride across the country to visit your grandparents.

你10岁，我们四个一起旅行。登机时，你走过头等舱，停下来嗅了嗅，说：“妈妈，这里好像是我的地盘。”

You're 10 years old. Four of us traveling. You board the plane, walk past the first class section, stopped, sniffed around. This seems like my group. I told my mother.

一切都已注定。如果我的家人满足于一辈子坐经济舱，那我们根本不在一个频道上。我迟早得和他们分道扬镳。十岁时，你就已经在做一件很重要的事：允许自己仅仅因为想要就去争取某样东西。然后你更进一步——我很希望你能讲讲接下来你在柠檬水摊做了什么，你是怎么开始拼命赚钱的，以及你怎么处理那些钱，因为这让我震惊不已。

The writing was on the wall. If my family was content flying coach for the rest of their lives, we simply weren't on the same page. And I would, at some point, have to split ties with them. At 10 years old, you have this really important thing that you're already doing where you're allowing yourself to claim something that you want simply because you want it. And then you go a step further and I would love to have you share the story about what you did next with the lemonade stand and then how you started to hustle and then what you did with the money because this blew my mind.

首先，我立刻意识到我得开始工作，因为我爸妈就是俩大麻烦，你懂吧？我当时想，天啊，他们什么都没给我准备，我得开始干活了，我还是个孩子。

So first of all, knew I had to start working right away because my parents were just two hot messes, you know? And I was like, oh my god. They there's no nothing set up for me here. Like, I'm gonna have to start working. I'm a child.

我能干嘛？我想，好吧，最容易上手的是什么？柠檬水摊。我就去摆了个柠檬水摊。

What can I do? I'm like, okay. What's the lowest hanging fruit? That's a lemonade stand. I'll open up a lemonade stand.

我拉上了我姐姐。我是六个孩子里最小的。我拉她入伙，所以你也知道，当你是家里最小的，你比别人都早熟，因为你必须如此。你吸收周围的一切，语言能力远超别人，因为你学会了如何周旋、谈判、争吵并获胜。于是我就开了个柠檬水摊。

I enlisted my older sister. I'm the youngest of six children. I enlist so that gives you also, you know, when you're the youngest of six children, you grow up much quicker than anybody else in the family because you you have to. You're absorbing everything around you and your language skills are far superior to anyone else's because you learn how to navigate, negotiate, argue, and win. And so I opened up a lemonade stand.

我们生意还行。我们在玛莎葡萄园岛。听起来像是有钱人家，其实没有。我爸搞到一栋很便宜的房子。

We did our business was fine. We were on Martha's Vineyard. That sounds like we came from money. We did not. My dad had got a very inexpensive house on Martha's Vineyard.

我们不知道他哪来的钱买那房子，但无所谓。那是他做过最正确的决定之一。我们因此度过了很多美好的夏天。于是我开了柠檬水摊。我对姐姐肖娜说，她比我大五岁。

We don't know how he got the money to get that house, but whatever. It was the one of the best decisions he's ever made. And we got so many beautiful summers from it. So I opened up a lemonade stand. I said to my sister, Shauna, she was five years older.

我说，要不要一起摆柠檬水摊？我们大概赚了17、18、20美元吧。对我来说不够。我当时大概十岁，我想，这不行。

I'm like, do you want to open up a lemonade stand with me? We made like maybe, I don't know, 17, $18.20 dollars. Not not enough money for me at I that was like, woah. I think I was probably around 10. And I was like, this isn't gonna work.

然后我就想，好吧，下一步就是摆个“硬柠檬水”摊。我觉得那才是大家真正想要的：威士忌、金酒、龙舌兰。我就干这个。

And then I was like, okay. The next best thing is opening up a hard lemonade stand. I'm like, that's what people really want. Whiskey, gin, and tequila. That's what I'm gonna do.

我回家拿金酒、威士忌和龙舌兰，这挺难，因为我爸妈不怎么喝酒。所以连好酒都没有。我好像去邻居家搞了点威士忌。然后我跟姐姐说，我们把饮料调一调，把酒卖给大人，把柠檬水卖给孩子。

I'm gonna go back to my house. I'm gonna get some gin, whiskey, and tequila, which was difficult because my parents didn't really drink. So it wasn't even like, you know, good stuff. Like, I think I went to a neighbor's house and got some whiskey from her. And then I told my sister, I'm like, we're gonna mix our drinks, and we're gonna sell the alcohol to the adults, and we're gonna sell the lemonade to the kids.

而且我觉得，任何十岁以上的人都可以来杯鸡尾酒。我姐姐说，我们绝对不能干这事，这是违法的。我说，那你就滚吧，因为你其实是在分我的利润。于是我炒了她。

And anyone, frankly, who's over 10 can also have a cocktail as far as I'm concerned. My And sister's like, we're definitely not doing that. That's illegal. And I was like, well, then you can go take a hike because you're actually cutting into my profit margin. So I I fired her.

然后我就在附近挨家挨户敲门，像个女商人一样自我介绍。我当时10岁，穿着短裤、人字拖什么的。我说：嗨，我叫切尔西·汉德勒，你们家有10岁的小孩可以跟我一起玩吗？

And then I went around the neighborhood and I would just knock on the door and I would introduce myself like a businesswoman. I was 10 and, you know, wearing, like, shorts and flip flops and whatever. And I was like, hi. My name is Chelsea Handler. Do you have any other 10 year olds that I can play with?

最后他们把一个叫纳尔逊的小孩派下来。我说：纳尔逊，我在开柠檬水摊，需要一个吧台助手，你会调饮料吗？他说：啥？

And finally, they sent this kid named Nelson down. And I was like, Nelson, I'm doing a lemonade stand. I need a bar back. Do you know how to mix a drink? And he was like, what?

我说：听着，我在电视上见过，就这么做。那个柠檬水摊头几周就赚了几百美元。我们赚翻了。

I was like, listen. I've seen it on TV. This is all you have to do. And that lemonade stand yielded hundreds of dollars in the first few weeks. I mean, we made so much money.

我觉得到第三周，我大概有700块，或者506块，反正书里写了。然后我给了纳尔逊提成，因为他不是我妹妹，是我雇的人。假设我赚了569块。

I think by the third week, I had like $700 or 506 or some whatever figure. It's in the book. And then I gave Nelson his commission because that wasn't my sister. It was a guy that I hired. And I think it was like, say I made $569.

我给了他5.69块提成，说：纳尔逊，这是你的。纳尔逊以为中了彩票：天啊，5块钱！

I gave him his commission, was $5.69. And I was like, this is yours, Nelson. And Nelson thought he hit the lottery. He's like, oh my god. $5.

他说：太疯狂了，比我一周掉三颗牙赚的钱还多。我说：纳尔逊，你要是还信牙仙，我们问题大了。但那就是我第一次创业，我意识到：好，我要自己干，不需要家人。

He's like, this is crazy. This is more money than I would have made if I had lost three teeth in one week. And I'm like, Nelson, if you believe in the tooth fairy, we've got bigger problems, you know? But that was my first, like, entrepreneurial endeavor that I realized like, okay, I'm going take this into my own hands. I don't need my family.

我其实谁也不需要，只需要想个点子。然后我就想：等等，我可以赚更多。我才10岁。

I actually don't need anybody. I just need to like, you know, figure out an idea. And then I was like, wait a second. I could be making more money. I was 10.

我一直看起来比实际年龄大。我想：我可以当保姆，当保姆又没年龄规定，对吧？于是我撒谎说我15岁，给马撒葡萄园埃德加敦的所有酒店打电话。

I was always I looked older than I was. And I was like, I'll be a babysitter. There's no rules around babysitting, you know? But so I lied. And I said I was 15 years old, and I called all the hotels in Edgartown, Martha's Vineyard.

我说：我叫切尔西·汉德勒，是很有经验的保姆。如果你们有客人临时需要人看孩子，请打给我。这是我的号码，我还记得：627-5889。

And I was like, my name is Chelsea Handler. I'm a very experienced babysitter. If you have any guests that are traveling and that need last minute babysitting plans, please call me. This is my number. I still remember my number, 627-5889.

我说我15岁。那个夏天我靠给一个14岁男孩当保姆度过，而我才10岁。

And and I I said, I'm 15 years old. I spent that summer babysitting for a 14 year old boy as a 10

十岁。作为一个十岁的小孩。

year old. As a 10 year old.

我的意思是，我干了三年保姆生意。所以我才买得起那张头等舱机票，嗯，我把这事讲出来

I mean, I had this babysitting business for three years. So that's how I afforded the first class ticket that Well, I took tell that on

故事，你拿那笔钱做了什么。

story what you did with the money.

我用它买了航班上的头等舱机票。

I used that to buy my first class ticket on on the flight.

但令人惊讶的是，你好像没告诉家人。所以几年后，你不是要坐飞机横跨全国去A地吗

But what's amazing about this is that you didn't tell it sounds like in the story, you didn't tell your family. So a couple years later, aren't you flying across country to go A to

几年后，没错，我十岁时第一次坐飞机。那是一切的开端。当我看到有一群人更有钱、可以坐更好的座位时，我就想，我要成为那群人。然后我回来开了柠檬水摊，我觉得这还不够。

couple years later, yeah, I had experienced my first plane ride at ten. That was the impetus for everything. Once I saw that there was a section of people that had more money and could sit in nicer chairs, I was like, I'm gonna be in that group. So then I came back, I started Lemonade. I was like, this isn't enough.

我觉得，我得干点更大的事。然后我创办了保姆公司。我有很多客户，我给五家人带孩子，还得外包给别人。

Like, I gotta do something bigger than this. And then I started my babysitting company. I made I had tons of clients. I babysat for like five different families. I had to outsource people.

我试着把我姐雇回来，因为客户太多。我攒钱。后来我妈说13岁要再回加州看外公。我跑到街上那家旅行社，给自己买了张头等舱票。然后上了飞机。

I tried to hire my sister back because I had too many clients. And I saved my money. And then my mom said we were going back to California again when I was 13 to visit my grandfather. And I went down the street to a travel agent that lived on our street, and I bought myself a first class ticket. And then I got on the plane.

我跟两个傻哥哥格伦和罗伊一起。我在飞机上啥也没说，因为我太想看到他们脸上的表情了。我太想看到哥哥们那种厌恶的表情，我搞出了他们也想搞定的系统。你懂吧？

I was with my two idiot brothers, Glenn and Roy. And I was on the plane, and I didn't say anything because I could not fucking wait to see the looks on their faces. I couldn't wait to see my brothers, the look of disgust that I had figured out a system that they would have loved to figure out. You know what I mean?

懂。

Yes.

而且我比他们小十岁。我是家里的小妹妹。我就像，你知道的，那个没人真正当回事的小不点。我坐到自己的座位2C，拖着我的行李箱。

And that I'm ten years younger than them. I'm the baby sister. I'm like, you know, this little thing that nobody really took seriously. And I got in my seat, 2C. I had my, like, suitcase.

我把它塞进头顶行李舱。穿着小猫跟，又像职业女性了。我想，坐飞机嘛，得打扮一下。结果他们都以为我在开玩笑。

I popped it in the overhead bin. Had little kitten heels on like a businesswoman again. I was like, flying. I better get dressed up. And then they all thought I was kidding.

我说，航班结束时再见啦，然后坐进2C。大概一小时后，我哥走到我座位旁说，你不能这样。我说，不能怎样？他说，你不能自己买头等舱票，却不让给我们或妈妈。我回他，首先，我当时已经在喝香槟了，他们可能以为我21岁。

I'm like, I'll see you guys at the end of the flight and sat in 2C. And then like an hour later, my brother came up to my seat and was like, you can't do that. And I'm like, I can't do what? He goes, you can't buy a first class ticket and not give it to one of us or mom. And I was like, first of I was drinking also a glass of champagne at that point because they thought I was 21 probably.

我看着他，说，我当然可以。我说，首先，你得回到你的舱位，航班结束再见。

And I looked at him, and I was like, I I absolutely can. I was like, first of all, you need to get back to your section, and I will see you at the end of the flight.

你能把这帘子拉上然后

Can you shut this curtain and

把这该死的头等舱……你怎么还，你怎么穿过帘子的？这帘子到底是什么样的防护措施？根本拦不住任何人上来。所以那时他们就知道，天啊，她可真难搞。但我从小就跟他们说，跟紧我。

get this first fucking How do you also also, how did you get through the curtain? What kind of, well, yeah, what kind of preventative measure is that curtain? It's not stopping anyone from coming up. So that at that point, they knew, like, oh god, you know, she's a real handful. But I had told them from a very young age, like, watch out and stick with me.

我会带大家摆脱困境。我爸妈经济上不稳定。我们不算穷，但电话被停机，有很多金钱问题。

I'm gonna get us out of this mess. Like, my parents were not financially stable. We were not poor. Like, we but we had our phones turned off. We had a lot we had money problems.

并不是开新车、穿名牌那种生活。我是六个孩子里最小的，我们有房子，有基本稳定，从没挨饿。

It wasn't like we were driving in new cars and I was getting nice clothes. It wasn't like that. I was the youngest of six and it was like we had a house. We had stability. I never went hungry.

但没有余裕。你懂吧。我不喜欢那样，我想让自己和家人过得更好，不只是为了我自己。

But there was no excess. You know what I Yeah. And I didn't like that. I wanted more for myself and I wanted more for my family. Like, it wasn't just for me.

我想，看来得由我来照顾这个家了。

I was like, I guess I'll have to take care of this family.

我喜欢这个故事的地方在于——我知道我们马上就会谈到整个经历——但我想先在这里停一下，因为我觉得这对你的生活是一个很有启发性的思考：多少次你走过头等舱、看到一栋漂亮的房子、看到别人在做你一直想做的艺术创作，或者看到有人在婚礼上跳得不错，你会想，我也想

What I love about this story, and I realize we're gonna get into just the whole trajectory, but I just wanna pause right here because I think this is a really inspiring thing to consider in your life. How often do you pass through first class or you see a beautiful house or you see somebody pursuing some artistic thing that you've always wanted to do or you see somebody like who's a decent dancer at a wedding and you're like, I want to

那样。我很想跳得好。

do that. I would love to be a good dancer.

对吧？但接下来出现的不是“我要去弄明白怎么做”，而是“哦，你不行”或“我不配”或“我这种人就不该做这种事”。我们太快就放弃了。我喜欢这个故事的地方——不管你说它是勇气、是生存、是别的什么——最打动我的是：我希望我们所有人，尤其是女性，能允许自己去渴望自己真正想要的东西。然后，不是压抑欲望、否定自己，而是提醒自己：只要有时间和努力，你能搞定那件事。

Right? But then what follows is not, I'm going go figure that out. What follows is, Oh, well, you can't or I don't deserve that or people like me don't get to do things like that. We opt out so quickly and what I love about this story, whether you say it's moxie or it's survival or it's this or it's that, the piece that I love about it that struck me so beautifully is I wish we all, especially as women, could just allow ourselves to want things that we want. And then instead of blocking the desire and invalidating ourselves, we remind ourselves with time and some effort, you can figure that shit out.

你能自己买单，你能学会怎么做。这就是这个故事展示的。即使每一步都有人说“你做不到”或“你不该做”或“你这个年龄说不通”，你还是让它说得通了。这种思维转变是我们大家都需要的。

You can pay for that stuff yourself. You can figure out how to do it. That's what that story illustrates. Even if at every step of the way, people are saying, you can't do that or you shouldn't do that or your age makes no sense, you made it make sense. And that is a huge mindset switch that I think we all could use.

而且这也成了你做事方式里越来越稳定的一部分，我觉得这是你很酷的一个特质。

And it is something that also is becoming consistent with the way you approach things. And I think that's a really cool attribute about you.

谢谢。但我还想补充一点：女性必须拥有一种“不道歉”的态度。除了你刚才说的所有，还要A：别问“我配吗？”——你去追求的东西，你就配。B：别为想要更多而道歉。

Well, thank you. But I also would like to add that there's an unapologeticness that is necessary for women to claim. In addition to everything that you just said, there also has to be, A, not do I deserve this? You deserve whatever you go after. But also, don't apologize for wanting more.

这没关系。男性可不会为想要更多而道歉。我也不想把它搞成男女对立，但这些年这种对比太明显了：女性更难宣称自己想要什么、追求什么，也更难开口谈自己得到了什么。对。

That's okay too. Yeah. I mean, men don't apologize for wanting more. And I don't ever like to make it such a female male thing, but it it's become so illustrative in the last, you know, many years to see the divide and to see how how women have a harder time claiming what they want and going after they want and having a hard time talking about what they got. Yes.

对。我想

Yes. I want to

看到这种改变。所以我很高兴你讲了那个故事。后来你就想：我走了，我走了。你把自己弄到了加州。

see a shift in that too. So I'm thrilled that you told that story. So eventually, you're like, I'm out of here. I'm out of here. You get yourself to California.

那时候你觉得你想做什么？嗯，我得离开新泽西，离开我的家人。

Like, what did you think you wanted to do? Well, I had to get away from New Jersey for my family. I had to get away from my family.

所以我几乎是擦着边毕业的，我的意思是，我当时糟透了。我是个糟糕的青少年，对父母很恶劣，一团糟。我九岁时哥哥去世了。

So like I graduated by the skin of I mean, I was terrible. I was terrible teenager. I was awful to my parents. I was a mess. My brother died when I was nine.

这对家庭影响巨大。对我们家来说那是场灾难。哥哥死后，父亲彻底崩溃，再也没有真正恢复。于是，我失去了哥哥，又失去了父亲，我开始愤怒，因为我最崇拜的两个男人都让我失望，基本上抛弃了我。

That had a huge impact on the family. It was terrible for our family. My father fell apart at the seams after my brother died. He never quite recovered. And then, so I had lost my brother, and then I had lost my father, and then I became angry that the two men that I admired the most both disappointed me and basically abandoned me.

我没有任何出口，也没有心理治疗，所以我只是变得愤怒。于是我和父亲就像这样对抗了整个青春期。所以我迫不及待地想离开他们。

And I didn't have any outlet. I didn't have therapy. So I just became angry. And so my father and I were like this, my whole entire teenage years. So I couldn't wait to get away from them.

我迫不及待地想离开，尤其是离开我父亲。高中毕业后我在社区大学混了一个学期，勉强毕业。但我对学校没兴趣，只想玩、追男孩之类的。

I couldn't wait to get away from my father specifically. I went to community college for like a semester after high school where I barely graduated. But I did graduate. And I wasn't interested in school. I was interested in having fun and boys and all of that stuff.

然后我对父母说，我想我要去加州。我就觉得那里才是我的归属。你知道，那是像我这样的人去的地方。我觉得自己是个异类，觉得我永远过不了传统生活。

And then I said to my parents, like, think I'm gonna go to California. I just felt like that's where I belong. You know, that's where the land of people like me go. You know, people who are I felt like a misfit. I felt like I was never gonna lead a traditional life.

我说，我想去加州，而且我想开车去。我需要一辆车。我爸爸是二手车商，我从来没见他那么兴奋给一辆车换四条新轮胎。他说，我给你那辆奥迪换四条新轮胎。他有一辆老奥迪Quattro。

I was like, I think I wanna go to California, and I think I'm gonna drive. I need a car. My my dad was a used car dealer, and I've never seen him more excited to get four new tires for a car in his life. My dad's like, I'll get you four new tires for the Audi. He had this Audi Quattro, this old Audi Quattro.

他对我离开的前景兴奋极了，这样他们终于可以摆脱我和我所有的愤怒与闹剧。这很好，因为我上了车，横穿全国，其实我只是需要和家人分开一下，我们都需要喘口气，你

He was so excited at the prospect of me leaving so that they could finally get a break from me and all of my anger and my drama. And it was great because I got in a car, I drove across country, and and all I really needed was a break for my family. We just all needed a break, you

知道吗？嗯。

know? Yeah.

一旦我离开他们，我开始感激并爱他们。但我只是需要独立，需要开始走自己的路。他们完全理解，说，走吧，你越快离开越好。

And once I got away from them, I started to appreciate them and love them. But I just needed my individuality and I needed to start to pursue my own path. And they totally got that. They were like, go. You can't get out of here fast enough.

你知道吗？于是我们的关系因此变得更牢固。搬到加州时我并不知道自己具体要做什么，只是觉得会有人在我身上看到点什么。天啊。

You know? And then our relationship strengthened because of that. And so I didn't know exactly what I was gonna do when I moved to California. I just figured somebody will see something in me. Oh my god.

那你是怎么开始接触喜剧的？

So how did you get into comedy?

我21岁的时候因为酒驾被抓了。我当时用我姐姐的身份证在加州喝酒，因为我19岁就搬去那里了。我妈把我姐姐的出生证明给了我，我说，我怎么才能进酒吧之类的？她说，我把你姐姐的出生证明给你，别告诉她。

I got a DUI when I was 21 years old. And I was using my sister's ID to drink in California because I moved out there when I was 19. So my mom gave me my sister's birth certificate and was like, I was like, how am I gonna get into bars and stuff? And she's like, I'll give you your sister's birth certificate. Don't tell her.

你可以用她的身份证。冲啊，老妈。我妈当时就像，求你了，快走吧。

You can use her ID. Go, mom. My my mom was like, please go too.

赶紧出去。你……我们会给你

Just get out here. What what are you we'll give you

我们所有的钱

as much money as

我们所有的钱。拜托你走吧。所以……我只是想象你爸扔给你一辆旧车和新轮胎。你妈说，拿着你姐姐的出生证明和我口袋里的零钱，再见。

we have. Please leave. And so Well, I just wanna just the picture of your dad throwing an old car and new tires. Your mom's like, take your sister's birth certificate and the pocket change I have. Goodbye.

是啊。

Yeah.

拿着。快从包里拿走。也许给我们打个电话，或者别打。我们无所谓。于是我开车去了加州，我有叔叔阿姨

Get it. Get it out the bag. Call us maybe or don't. We're not worried about it. So I I drive out to California, and I have an aunt and uncle.

他们住在洛杉矶。我搬去和他们住。他们有九个孩子。

They lived in in in LA. I moved in with them. They had nine children.

那是个两居室的房子，有九个孩子、四只狗，还有一只鹦鹉。还有一只鹦鹉。对。

And it was a two bedroom house with nine children, four dogs. And a parrot. And a parrot. Yeah.

那是一团糟，简直荒唐。我当时就像个保姆，我得

It was a hot mess. It was ridiculous. And I was like the nanny. Like, I'd have

起床送孩子上学

to get up and take

去上学。后来我21岁时，我从姑姑和叔叔家搬了出来。我敢肯定他们把我赶出来了，因为我当时完全没谱。我不知道自己想干什么，浑身是劲却不知道往哪儿使，我就想，我该怎么办？

the kids to school. And then when I was 21, I I had moved out of my aunt and uncle's house. I'm sure they had kicked me out because I was just I was all over the shop. Like, I didn't know what I wanted to do. I had all this energy and I just was like, what should I do?

我该当演员吗？还是模特？我想，哦，当模特不行，我瘦不到那种程度。那我还有什么选择？

Should I be an actress? I like, should I be a model? I'm like, oh, I can't be a model. Like, I'm not gonna be that skinny. Like, what are the what are my options?

你知道吗？也许我会……后来我酒驾被抓，当时还在用我姐的身份证。虽然刚满21岁，我还是给了他们我姐的ID。结果双重翻车，因为我相当于用假证件，还酒驾。于是我在洛杉矶县女子监狱待了48小时，那是个大房间，上下铺，女人们用博洛尼亚三明治换卫生巾。

You know? Maybe I'll be an and then I I got this DUI, and I had been using my sister's ID. And even though I had just turned 21, I was I gave them my sister's ID. So that was a double whoopsie doodle because I was basically using a fake ID, and I got a DUI. So I was in Sybil Sybil County Women's Prison for forty eight hours at LA County Women's Prison, which is a big giant room filled with bunk beds and women trading bologna sandwiches for tampons.

我当时想，去他的，我干了什么？你得振作起来。我姑姑和叔叔得拿房子做抵押才把我保出来。出狱后我得去上酒驾课，每周去一次，全班人轮流站起来讲自己的故事。

And I was like, fuck this. Like, what have I done? Like, you need to get your shit together. And my aunt and uncle had to put a lien on their house to get me out of jail. And I got out of jail, and I had to go to DUI school, which meant every week, I would go to this class and everyone had got up in front of the whole class and they had to tell their story.

就是那种“分享你的羞耻”的环节。结果整堂课其实教的是怎么避免下次再被抓。教练说：“听着，下次被拦下，千万别承认喝过酒。”我心想，这有点怪，但行吧。

And it was, you know, like, shame, you know, like, share your shame. Yeah. Meanwhile, the whole class was about basically how to get out of your next DUI. The instructor was like, listen, next time you get pulled over, just don't admit to having anything to drink. I was like, well, this is a little bit weird, but okay.

于是我得做五百小时社区服务，各种事。但只要一听说要在全班面前讲话，我就躲，缩在教室最后一排，最后才

And so I had to go. I had to do like five hundred hours of community service. I had do all this stuff. But anyway, as soon as I found out you had to speak in front of the class, I would just like hide. I'd get in the back of the class and last Really?

真让我意外。是啊，不

That surprises me. Yeah. No.

不，我当时怕公开演讲怕得要死。我觉得大多数人都怕。是的，我就躲。

No. I was so scared to death of public speaking. I think most people are. Yes. And I I would hide.

我当时就想，好吧，我得想办法脱身。就像以前在学校那样，知道怎么让自己消失，让别人忘了你。这门课持续了大概十二周吧，是最后一节课了。

I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna get out of this. Like, knew how to do this in school. Like, how to just disappear and have them forget about you. It went on for like twelve weeks or something. It was the very last class.

我心想，我成功了。结果他说，切尔西，你得上去讲。我就站起来讲了我的酒驾故事。那故事挺搞笑的，我还骂那个警察种族歧视。

And I was like, I've done it. And then he's like, Chelsea, you know, you have to get up there. And I got up and I told my DUI story. And it's a pretty funny story. I called the cop racist.

我们俩都是白人。故事里的细节全都很荒谬。比如，我当时就在我家外面，因为我喝醉了，直接开过了家门。然后我开始讲故事的时候，大家都笑了，我就继续讲下去。

We're both white. Like, none of the details about the story were they were all ridiculous. Like, I was outside of my house. Like, I passed my house because I was drunk. So and and then I was as I was telling my story, like, everyone started laughing, and I just kept going.

我越来越放松，感觉太棒了。最后老师走上台说，好了，这不是脱口秀俱乐部，快结束吧，你现在太享受了，这跟课程目的正好相反。

And and I got more and more relaxed, and it felt amazing. And then finally, the instructor came on stage, and it was like, okay, that's this isn't a stand up comedy club. Like, wrap it up. Like, you're enjoying this now. It's like the opposite of the point.

我心想，我确实挺享受的。然后我下台后，一群人围过来，说你必须去当脱口秀演员，太搞笑了，你的节奏、时机掌握得太好了，等等。

And I was like, I am enjoying this. And then I got off stage and a a bunch of people came up to me. They're like, you have to be a stand up comedian. That was so funny. Your delivery, your timing, blah blah blah.

我心想，我从没想过这个。脱口秀演员？我就是在讲自己的想法，不用读剧本。

And I was like, oh, I had never thought about that. And I was like, a stand up comedian. I was like, oh, okay. That's me talking about my own thoughts. I'm not reading a script.

我不用念别人的台词，我完全自主。然后下周，我在Laugh Factory进行了人生第一场脱口秀演出。我从凌晨两点开始排队，等了24小时才轮到。我上台讲了3分钟脱口秀。

I don't have to read somebody else's dialogue. I have total autonomy. And then the next week, I did my first stand up set ever at the Laugh Factory. I waited outside like from two in the morning till like for twenty four hours, had to wait in line. And I got on stage and did three minutes of stand up comedy.

所以，酒驾这个人生中最糟糕的决定之一，反而变成了最好的事情之一，因为我想也许我该试试脱口秀，也许这很适合我。然后就这样了，我开始做脱口秀。

So one of the worst decisions of my life, which was getting a DUI, turned into one of the best things that ever happened to me because I thought maybe I will try stand up. Maybe that's perfect for me. And then that was it. And then I just started doing stand up.

太搞笑了，切尔西。你讲故事的能力太棒了，我们还有更多见解和教训要深入探讨。但首先，我们得休息一下。休息期间别走开，我想让你把这期节目分享给你的姐妹、母亲、闺蜜、同事，让我们一起传播切尔西今天带给我们的智慧和欢笑。

That is hilarious, Chelsea. I mean, you are such an incredible storyteller and there's so many more insights and lessons that we are going to dig into. But first, we gotta take a quick break. So while we're on break, don't go anywhere. I want you to send this episode to your sister, your mother, your best friend, your coworkers, and let's share the wisdom and the laugh ter that Chelsea is giving to you and me today.

大方点分享。等你分享完，我和切尔西会回来继续。欢迎回来，我是你的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯。

Be generous. And by the time you're done, you and I are gonna come back with Chelsea Handler. So stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins.

今天，和我一起的是非常有趣、非常睿智、也非常慷慨的切尔西·汉德勒。你提到一种“自信版的司美格鲁肽”。我对自信的定义是：愿意尝试。是的，你正是这种什么都愿意尝试的化身。

And today, you and I are here with the very funny, very wise, and very generous Chelsea Handler. You talked about like an Ozempic of confidence. My definition of confidence is the willingness to try. Yes. You embody this willingness to try anything.

只要你想要什么东西，我就会立刻去争取；只要你遇到麻烦，比如“我得远离这些人”，我也会立刻行动。所以，我的定义就是：自信就是愿意尝试。正是在尝试的过程中，你向自己证明你有能力做成事情，这才是建立自信的根本。

The second that you want something, I'm gonna try to get it. The second you have a problem, I gotta get away from these people, I'm gonna try to do that. And so confidence in my definition is just this willingness to try. And it's in the trying that you prove to yourself that you're capable of doing things. That's what builds confidence.

因此，无论经历怎样的曲折，我都希望大家在听或看、在与我和切尔西共度这段时光时，能体会到她那种“哦，那我就试试”的态度。对我来说最神奇的是，我根本不知道你究竟是怎么准备的。假如一周后我要去参加开放麦，我甚至不确定自己知道该怎么准备。你……不过，你

And so in every twist and turn, want you to make sure as you're listening or watching and spending time with me and Chelsea that you're getting that she's demonstrating just as, oh, I'll try that. Oh, okay. And so to me, it's fascinating that I don't even know how the hell you prepared to do. Like if I were going to an open mic night a week from now, I don't even know that I would know how to prepare. Did you But do

你肯定行的。你会搞明白的，一定会。因为——反复尝试却仍旧失败，和第一次就抱着开放心态去尝试，是有区别的。对吧？对吧？

you would. You would figure it out. You would because and there's a difference between trying something over and over again and it not working. Right. Right?

或者，足够开放地去第一次尝试某件事。确实。对。所以，有时候，我可不想告诉你：“哦，好吧，那就继续干”，然后你就一直撞南墙。

Or being open minded enough to try something for the very first time. True. Right. Yes. So, sometimes, I wouldn't want to tell you to say, oh, okay, keep doing something and then beating your head against a wall.

但一定要有足够开放的心态，让自己出一次糗，知道吗？因为谁知道呢？也许会有好结果。确实如此。

But definitely be open minded enough to make a fool out of yourself one time. You know? Because who knows? Maybe it'll work out. That's true.

就像你说的，也许会有好结果。结果真的成了。我花了很长时间才建立起现在的自信，大概干了二十五年。不，我当时21岁。

Like, you say that all Maybe the it'll work out. And guess what? It did work out. And it was and it took me a long time to gain the confidence that I have now after doing it for probably twenty five years. No, I was I was 21.

所以其实更久。但年复一年，我都知道自己走在正确的路上，于是就这么坚持下来了。那是一段疯狂的经历把我带到那里，也是我人生故事里荒诞的一部分。别回避它，你知道，我并不为酒驾感到骄傲。

So it's even more than that. But it took for years and years and years, but I knew that I was on to something. And I just continued to do that. And it was a crazy circumstance that led me there, but also part of the ridiculousness that is my life and story. And not to be not to shy away from that, you know, I'm not proud of getting a DUI.

但这正是我弄清楚人生方向的一部分。只要你保持眼睛和耳朵开放、抬起头，最大的失望和失败就能带来最大的成功。

But it's part of how I figured out what I was going to do with my life. Your biggest disappointments and your biggest failures can lead to your biggest successes if you keep your eyes and your ears open and your head up.

说来也巧，你拼了五年，终于在蒙特利尔迎来第一次大突破，却并没按计划进行。给我们讲讲那段经历吧。是

Well, funny you should say that because you bust your ass for five years and then you get your first big break in Montreal and it doesn't go according to plan. So tell us that story. Is a

给你讲个好故事。我当时是蒙特利尔喜剧节的“下一个It Girl”，那时候这个节就是在这个行业、在单口喜剧圈里成名的跳板。只要你上了那个节，你就上地图了，大家就知道你是谁，所有能决定你职业前途的行业大佬都会去。我去蒙特利尔之前呼声很高，我还专门有个展示秀。

good story for for you to hear. I was the next It Girl for this Montreal Comedy Festival, which is basically, at the time, the festival to get recognized in this industry or in this stand up industry. If you're if you're at that festival, you're on the map, people know who you are, everyone in the industry that could make decisions about your career is going to be there. There was a lot of buzz about me going to Montreal. I had a special showcase.

所有有头有脸的人都会来看那场秀。所有人。结果我炸得稀烂。我练过这套段子，是十分钟的量。

Everyone who was anyone was coming to that show. Everybody. And I bombed badly. And I had practiced this set. I had it was a ten minute set.

可一看到观众的反应，我立刻没了底气。我开始赶节奏，说话飞快。我知道不妙，然后就越讲越糟，越来越糟。下台后，我心里明白，这锅没的洗。我直接回了酒店房间。

But just based on everyone's reaction right away, I lost my confidence. And I was like, I started rushing and I was talking too fast. I was like, knew it wasn't going well, and then it got worse, and it got worse. And I got off stage, and I was just like, there was no denying what had happened. And I went back to my hotel room.

扎克·加利菲亚纳基斯把我送到房门口，说：‘你得一个人待会儿。这太惨了，我说啥都帮不了你。’我当时崩溃到极点，觉得事业还没开始就已经结束。

Zach Galifianakis walked me to my hotel room and was like, yeah, you're gonna wanna sit by yourself for a while. This sucks. And there's nothing I can say to help you. And I was devastated. I thought my career had ended before it had begun.

我完全不知道下一步怎么办。那晚我就坐在那儿想：我还能去办公室上班吗？我还能干啥？是不是得重新上大学？我该怎么从头再来？

And I just didn't know what I was gonna do. I really sat there that night thinking, could I work in an office? Like, what could I do? Do I have to go to college now? Like, how do I begin again?

我当时想，完蛋已成定局。接着第二天晚上我还有一场演出，哦，天呐，结果没人来，因为他们已经觉得——我们看过她了，她还没准备好。

And I'm like, nothing was an option. And then there were I had another show the next night. Oh, god. But no one came because and no one they were already were like, we already saw her. She's not ready.

她太嫩了，还没准备好。然后那场演出当然很成功，但没人看到。我回到洛杉矶后，当时的经纪人马克·舒尔班给我打电话，说NBC的高管格蕾丝·吴周六晚上没去蒙特利尔看你的演出。

She's too green. She's not ready. And then that show, of course, went great, but nobody was there to see it. And then I get back to LA. My manager at the time, this guy Mark Schulbain called me and he said, Grace Wu, who was an executive at NBC, was not at your show in Montreal on Saturday night.

她想明天晚上来Luna Park看你。我当时想，行吧。于是我给Luna Park打电话，给自己订了场子，我说，让我上。

She wants to come see you tomorrow night at Luna Park. And I was like, okay. I so I called Luna Park. I booked myself. I was like, put me up.

我演了完全一模一样的一套段子，但此时我已经没什么可失去的了，因为我早就搞砸了。

And I did the same exact set, but I had nothing to lose at this point because I'd already blown it.

你是怎么给自己打气的？明知道这就是最后机会。你一定离开蒙特利尔时觉得事业完了，没戏了，然后接到这个电话，但现在的压力是不是更大？你刚说已经没什么可失去的——不，压力没更大，只是觉得已经被拒了，还能再糟到哪去？

How did you psych yourself up knowing like this is it? Because you must have left Montreal feeling like career's over, no chance, and then you get this call, but now the stakes probably feel higher. You just said I have nothing to lose but No, they didn't feel higher. They just felt like I've already been rejected. What more could

到这一步我就输了？对，我已经失去了所有能影响我职业生涯的人的尊重。他们不再把我当回事。所以我就去做了，看看会怎样。

I lose at this point? Yeah. I've already lost the respect of like all of these people that can impact my career. So they don't take me seriously. So I'll just go and do it and we'll see.

我知道我能做到。于是我就上了，而且大获成功。我那场表演非常棒。第二天我就拿到了第一份开发协议。他们给我打电话说，NBC想以你的生活为原型做一部情景喜剧。

Like, I know I can do it. And so, did it and I crushed it. I had a great set. I got my first development deal that next day. They called me and they're like, NBC wants to create a sitcom around your life.

所以我想告诉你，你可能遭遇人生中最惨的失败，但你根本不知道转角会遇到什么。你唯一能掌控的，就是点头说“好”，伸出手去尝试。我就这么又试了一次，结果永远改变了我的人生。真的，那一刻永远改变了我。

So, what I want to say to you is that you can have the biggest failure of your life and you have no idea what's around the corner. All you have control of is your ability to say yes and to reach out and try. And that's what I did again. And it turned out to change my life forever. Like that changed my life forever.

前后只隔了七十二小时。这个故事特别值得分享，因为它适用于任何人、任何阶段，不管你从事什么、过着怎样的生活。事实就是如此：你必须抬头继续前行，因为你不知道彩虹什么时候出现——而它真的会出现。

Only seventy two hours went by. So it's such an important story to share, because it's applicable to anybody in any part of and it doesn't matter what you work in and what kind of life you have. That is the truth of the matter. That you don't you have to keep your head up because you do not know when the rainbow is coming. And they're coming.

我在书里写到，光明与黑暗像搭档一样彼此追随，因为确实如此；没有其一，就没有其二。我得经常提醒自己。人生总会遇到各种事，你以为自己搞懂了，突然又被击中，心里喊“怎么又来？”但你得凭自己的人生经验相信，事情终究会解决，尤其当你保持开放心态——我当时也可以说“不，我不想再做了”。

You know, it's like I write in the book that lightness and darkness follow each other around like partners because they do. You know, without one, you don't have the other. And I have to remind myself of it often. Going through different things in life, you know, you think you get things figured out, and then all of a sudden something hits you and you're like, I have to deal with this again? But you have to know from the experience of having your own life that things can and do work out, especially when you're when your head is like in a state of opportunity and like, okay, you know, I could have said, no, I don't want to do that.

“我不想再羞辱自己了。”可我却想：反正没什么可失去的，做就做，做就做，做就做！

I don't want to humiliate myself anymore. Instead, I was like, okay, I've got nothing to lose. I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it.

我相信自己。真的，就算没人信我，我知道只需要一个人点头说“好”。——我喜欢这句话，太喜欢了。

You know, I believed in myself. I did. Even though nobody else believed in me, I knew I just needed one person to say yes. Oh, I love that. I love that.

因为我们总四处奔波，觉得需要所有人认可。其实只需要一个人。——是。我也爱这个故事，它再次体现了我想让大家都拥有的、而你正好展现的品质：电话一来，很多人会说“我不行，我做不到”。

Because we all do run around thinking we need everybody. You just need one person. Yeah. And I also love that this is an illustration again of this trait that I want everybody to have and that you demonstrate which is the call comes, a lot of us would be like, I can't. I can't do that.

“我需要时间，我得准备，我还没准备好。”而你只是：“行，我试试，我来想办法。”

I I need time. I gotta figure it out. I'm not ready. And you're just like, alright, I'll try. I'll figure it out.

在很多转折点上，你都愿意加码下注，相信自己的本事——不一定能完美，但起码能完成、能扛住失败；或者完成后发现自己比想象得更好。说“好”就对了。——太酷了，真的。你知道书里我最喜欢的故事之一是什么吗？我差点把书掉地上——你收到简·方达的邮件，写着：“嗨，Chelsea，我是Jane。”

Like in so many instances and twists and turns, it's you're willing to double down and just trust in your capacity, not necessarily to nail it, but just to do it and survive if it doesn't go well or to do it and surprise yourself in case it does, to say yes, to Right. It's so cool. It's so cool. You know, one of my favorite stories that you write about in this book, I almost dropped the book honestly, was a story where you get an email from Jane Fonda, and the email says, Hi, Chelsea. It's Jane.

我在想你能不能来我家吃晚饭。我想跟你聊几件事。但我丈夫说，梅尔，我得跟你谈几件事。我心想，天啊，我做了什么？你收到那封邮件时，是什么感觉？

I was wondering if you could come over to my house for dinner. I'd like to talk to you about a couple things. But my husband says, Mel, I need to talk to you about a couple things. I'm like, Oh my God, what did I do? When you got that email, like, how did you feel?

然后我想请你交代一下背景，告诉我们简邀请你去她家、跟你聊几件事时发生了什么。

And then I'd love for you to set the context and tell us what happened when Jane invited you to her house and talked to you about a few things.

我收到邮件立刻就明白了，因为我们是女人，天生就能直觉到气氛不对。光看那封邮件的语气我就知道——我被召见了。我回信说：当然，我哪天都能来吃晚饭。她回：今晚怎么样？我心想，糟了。

Well, I got the email and I knew right away because we're women and we know exactly instinctively when something's off or if there's a vibe. And I knew just from the tone of that email, like, I was being summoned. Like and then I wrote back, of course, I'll come to dinner any night. She's and then she wrote back, how about tonight? And I'm like, uh-oh.

今晚？这是什么意思？我给我最好的朋友打电话：简·方达让我过去。她问：你觉得是为什么？

Tonight? What does that mean? And I called my best friend. I'm like, Jane Fonda wants me to come over. And she's like, what do think this is about?

我说：我……我不知道。但感觉不妙。于是我去了她家，她的厨师过来问：要不要来杯马提尼？我说：不，不用了。

I'm like, I I don't know. But I don't know. But I don't have a good feeling. So I went over to her house and her chef came over and was like, do you want, you know, a martini? And I was like, no, no.

我想保持清醒面对接下来的一切。我不知道会发生什么，这到底会是什么事？

You know, I'm gonna be sober for this part. Like, what's coming? I'm not sure what's coming. Like, what is this gonna be about?

你们当时是朋友吗？嗯。

Were you guys friends? Yeah.

我们曾经是朋友，几个月没联系了。她开场就说：你可能注意到，在约翰·刘易斯为那位已故老议员办的筹款会上，我对你有点冷淡，地点在珊达·莱姆斯家。

Okay. We had been friends. I hadn't spoken to her in a few months. But she started the meal by telling me, she goes, you may have noticed I was a little chilly towards you at this John Lewis fundraiser we were at for the old congressman who since, you know, passed away. He was at Shonda Rhimes' house.

我见过她，但那时我状态不稳，没意识到她在冷落我。那是筹款会，她匆匆擦肩而过，我心想：咦，好怪。

I had seen her. But again, I wasn't grounded and rooted at this time in my life to know that she was blowing me off at that party. It was a fundraiser. She kind of brushed past me. I was like, oh, that's weird.

她肯定很忙。我……我知道邮件的调调，因为那是大白天，我清醒又稳当。筹款会上人多嘈杂，各种寒暄，所以我没往心里去。

She must be busy. Like, I wasn't I wasn't I knew the tone of that email because it was in the light of day. And I was, you know, sober and grounded. At that fundraiser, there was a lot of people around, you know, you're mixing blah blah blah. So I didn't take it personally.

我当时就想，哦，我确实注意到了这一点

I just thought, oh, I definitely clocked it,

但我没有过度纠结。

but I didn't overthink it.

对。她说，你可能注意到我对你有点冷淡。我想和你谈谈。你当时在我的生日派对上，或者是一个派对。我甚至觉得那不是她的生日派对。

Right. She said, you may have noticed I was a little chilly towards you. And I wanted to talk to you. You were at my birthday party or a party. I don't even think it was her birthday party.

可能是她的生日派对。那是她在家里办的一个派对。她说，你很糟糕。你对别人很糟糕。你很讨厌。

It may have been her birthday party. It was a party she had at her house. She said, you were awful. You were awful to people. You were obnoxious.

你当时情绪很差。你身上笼罩着一团乌云，我不知道你吃了什么药。说实话，我也不知道，因为我在想，等等，什么派对？

You were in a terrible mood. You had a dark, dark cloud, like, hanging around you. I don't know what drugs you were on. And quite frankly, neither did I because I was like, wait, hold on a second. What party?

然后我隐约想起了那个派对。我记得那个派对，但我在回想当时的互动。就在那一刻，我知道不要为自己辩解

And then I kind of vaguely remembered the party. I remembered the party, but I was like thinking about what interactions. And just in that moment, I knew don't don't don't defend yourself

现在。我当时

right now. I had I

那时我刚开始接受心理治疗，就在几周前。谢天谢地，因为我学到的第一件事就是不要为自己辩解。如果你在为自己辩解，那就等于承认有什么地方不对。如果你不需要辩解，那就别辩解，这是非常有价值的一课，因为防御性真的很让人反感。她说，我不知道你为什么会带着那种情绪来参加派对。

had started therapy at that time in my life just weeks prior. I had started and thank God because one of the first things I learned was don't defend yourself. Like, if you're defending yourself, then you're admitting that something's wrong. If you don't have to defend yourself, then you don't have to, which is such a valuable lesson because defensiveness is just so ugh. And she said, you I don't know why you would ever come out in a mood like that.

你为什么要带着那种情绪来参加我的派对？她没有说我毁了她的派对，但你知道，这让很多人心里不舒服。我说，非常抱歉。我非常感激你愿意花时间坐下来告诉我这些，因为这本身就是姐妹情谊的体现。真正的姐妹情谊就是在不方便的时候也要告诉别人真相，做一个真正的姐妹。

Why would you come to my party in that mood? And she didn't say I ruined her party, but, you know, it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. And I said, I'm so sorry. I am so grateful that you've taken the time to sit down with me and say this to me because that in and of itself is such a demonstration of sisterhood. Like, that is the definition of sisterhood is to tell somebody the truth when it's inconvenient for you to do so and to be a sister.

就在那一刻，我顿悟了，明白了我想成为什么样的女人，也提醒了我自己已经偏离了轨道。

And in that moment, it was such a light bulb went on about the type of woman that I wanted to be and a reminder that I had gotten off track.

而且

And

她是那种一直如此的女性。她是我一生中可能最钦佩的人，简。她向我展示了我想成为的那种女性：在不合时宜时仍会说真话的人。她本可以余生都躲着我，什么都不说。

she was the type of woman and is always. She's was somebody I admire more than probably anybody in my life, Jane. She demonstrated to me exactly the type of woman that I wanted to become. Somebody who was going to tell the truth when it's inconvenient. She could have just avoided me for the rest of her life, you know, and just never said anything.

但她选择花那个时间。那天晚上她对我说了一些很有力量的话。我对她说，你再也不必因为任何糟糕行为而跟我说话了，这一次就是最后一次。我对重大错误也是这种感觉。

But she chose to take that time. And she said some powerful things to me that night. I said to her, you know, you're never going to have to speak to me again about any bad behavior. Like this, the first time will be the last time. And that's how I feel about big mistakes.

第一次就让错误成为最后一次。这是玛丽亚·施赖弗说的，我不想据为己有。但我很久以前听她采访时说过这句话。我相信它。我不想去夏令营。

You make the first time the last time. And that's a Maria Shriver quote, so I don't wanna pretend that it's mine. But I heard her say that in an interview many, many moons ago. And I believe that. I don't wanna go to summer camp.

我不想两次、三次地学同样的教训。我想学新的教训。对，我不想两次都约同一个混蛋。我想约一次就吸取教训。

I don't wanna learn the lessons twice and three times. I wanna learn the new lessons. Yeah. I don't wanna date the same asshole twice. I wanna date him once and learn my lesson.

她确实说了很有力量的话。你在《I'll Have What She's Having》第27页写到，她告诉我：去弄清楚你的问题是什么，因为你的天赋很多。有时天赋最多的人最容易把天赋扔进垃圾桶。别成为你环境的产物，切尔西。

She did say powerful things. You write about this on page 27 of I'll Have What She's Having. She told me, Go find out what your problem is because your gifts are plentiful. And sometimes people with the most gifts have the easiest time throwing them in the trash. Don't be a product of your environment, Chelsea.

让你的环境成为你的产物。这对你意味着什么？让你的环境成为你的产物。

Make your environment be a product of you. What does that mean to you? Make your environment be a product of you.

意思是把你的好撒出去，把你的仙女粉撒出去。首先找到你的仙女粉，找到你的东西，你擅长做什么、擅长传播什么，然后去影响别人的生活。别进监狱就像你看到的其他人那样表现。去提高监狱的档次，懂吗？

It means like sprinkle your goodness around. Sprinkle your fairy dust around. First of all, find your fairy dust, find out what your thing is, what you're good at doing, what you're good at spreading, and then go impact other people's lives. Don't just go to jail and act like everybody else that you see. Go, like, raise the stock in jail, you know?

对。无论你在哪儿，都让那里变得更好。

Yeah. Wherever you are, make it a better place.

我喜欢这个故事的一点是，当别人惹你生气或你觉得被冒犯、烦他们时，很容易直接把他们一笔勾销，或者冷淡、带刺，从不真正给他们反馈。这个故事展示的不仅是姐妹情，也是一种美丽的方式——尽管很难——去跟某人谈他们的行为以及它对你的影响。但这也说明她看到了你更大更好的版本。她为你描绘了一个不同的愿景，她知道你是谁，而不是你在那些情境下的表现。你可以想想，在你自己的生活里，无论是姐妹、朋友还是你深爱的人让你失望或惹你生气，而你忙着发泄、八卦或把他们踢开，想象一下成为那种人，能为别人描绘一个更好的愿景，并告诉他们行为不匹配，因为这为你打开了一扇门，不是吗？

One of the things that I love about that story is it is so easy when somebody pisses you off or when you feel slighted or annoyed with them to just write them off or to be cold and bristly and never actually give them the feedback. And what that story illustrates is not only sisterhood, but it is a beautiful way, even though it's hard to do, to have that kind of conversation with somebody about their behavior and how it impacted you. But what it also illustrated is that she saw the bigger and better version of you. She held out a different vision for who she knew you were versus the way you were acting in those circumstances. And if you can think about even in your own life, whether it's a sister or a friend or somebody that you care deeply about that's disappointing you or pissing you off and you're busy venting or gossiping or writing them off, imagine being the kind of person, right, that you could hold out a better vision for somebody else and actually share with them that their behavior doesn't match because that opened a door for you, Didn't it?

比如，那件事是如何改变你的？

Like, how did that change you?

嗯，它改变了我，让我也像她对我那样去对待其他女性——书里也写了这些故事，我会对其他女性说真话。我的意思是，我本来就这样，有时候确实挺让人受不了的。但通过治疗，我学会了更温和地表达。

Well, changed me with I've I've done what she did for me to other women, which are also, you know, stories in the book where I've said to other women, I've told them the truth when I mean, I'm a I I do that anyway. Like, it's pretty unwelcome sometimes, you know. But I've learned how to kind of do it in a more careful way

嗯。

Mhmm.

经过治疗，我意识到自己性格有多强势。我明白不是每个人都能接受直球，有些人需要更柔软的触碰。但我确实会特意去帮女性更清楚地认识自己，看清她们所面对的问题根源。不一定是朋友，只要是女性，甚至男性也行。

After going to therapy and understanding how strong of a personality I have. I've under I've I've learned to understand that it's not for everybody, you know, certain people need a different touch. But I've definitely gone out of my way to help women see themselves more clearly and see what the problems that they were experiencing are, where they're coming from. It doesn't even have to be a friend. It just has to be a woman, you know, or a man.

我是女性，自然更偏向帮助其他女性。但我也对男性这样做。我觉得抽时间说“嘿，我想帮你，我不会丢下你不管，我们可以继续聊、可以跟进”这件事意义非凡。

I mean, I obviously am a woman, so my natural predilection is towards other women. But I've done it with men too. And I just think it means so much to take the time out of your life to go, hey, I want to try and help you here. And I'm not going to leave you hanging. We can follow-up and we can still talk about this.

但我想让你知道，作为客观的旁观者，或者某种程度上也是局内人，我是怎么看这整件事的。

But I want I want to let you know how I'm seeing the situation as an objective outsider or somebody, you know, who's inside.

切尔西，我真的听不够你说话。你对人生的见解和智慧太棒了。趁我们短暂休息前，我想请你把这一集转发出去——发给那个正在自我怀疑、不敢放大招的人，告诉他们你在支持他们。

Chelsea, I just cannot get enough of you. I think you have some of the best takes on life and the best wisdom to share. So what I want you to do while we take a short break right now is I want you to share this episode. Text it to somebody who's playing small. Text it to somebody who's doubting themselves right now and let them know you're behind them.

分享给想活得更加精彩的人。分享完别走开，因为休息片刻后切尔西和我会继续等你回来。别换台。欢迎回来，我是你的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯。

Share it with somebody who wants to live a brighter life. And when you're done sharing, don't you dare go anywhere because Chelsea and I are gonna be waiting for you after a short break. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins.

今天我们要聊的是如何不再缩手缩脚，开始活得更大胆、更自信，而分享智慧的正是切尔西·汉德勒。你提到刚开始做治疗。你在书里写到你曾害怕治疗，也谈到你开始经历恐慌发作。我记得你有一次做节目时坐在桌子后面，因为腿在抖。

And today, you and I are talking about how to stop playing small and start living a bigger life, how to gain more confidence from none other than Chelsea Handler. So you were talking about that you had just started therapy. And in your book, you write about how you were scared of therapy. And you also talk a lot about how you had started having panic attacks. And in fact, I remember you did a special where you're sitting behind a desk once because your leg was shaking.

那么在治疗过程中，你最先认识到自己的是什么？

And so what was it in therapy that you started to recognize about yourself? I got

首先是自我觉察这份礼物，它是一份美妙的礼物。我经历了哥哥去世带来的延迟性悲伤，那种悲伤最终变成了愤怒与暴怒，也就是我在简·方达派对上经历的状态——用毒品和酒精去掩盖或逃避某些东西，却没有真正面对。我在亲密关系里缺乏亲密感，在某些方面非常不成熟。那些早年助我成功的张扬与种种手段，开始不再奏效。

the gift of self awareness, first of all, which is a beautiful gift. I dealt with my brother dying, which was delayed grief that had turned into anger and rage, which was what I was experiencing at Jane Fonda's party, you know, using drugs and alcohol to cover something up or to escape and not really having being in touch. I had a lack of intimacy within my relationships. I was very immature in certain respects. And my bombast and all of the things that had worked for me so early on in my career were starting to not work for me anymore.

奥普拉有句话：‘一切帮到你的东西，直到它不再帮你。’我以前完全不懂，心想她到底在说什么？可那些曾经让我成功、定义我身份的东西，渐渐失效了。

Oprah has that saying where she says, everything works for you until it doesn't. And I never understood. I was like, what does that mean? What is she talking about? But it just all of the things that made me who I was and made me so successful started to kind of stop working.

于是我不得不审视自己。接着2016年大选来了，我反应极其糟糕，因为终于有个地方能让我安放愤怒——我有了愤怒的理由：‘怎么会发生这种事？’但其实问题并不在于选举。

And then I had to look at it. And then there was the election in 2016 and that I had a really bad reaction to because that was somewhere I could place my anger. Then I had a reason to be angry. Then I was like, how could this happen? But it wasn't about that.

问题在我自己。我得敢于脆弱，承认哥哥去世让我心碎；在我九岁小脑袋看来，我被抛弃了。他说‘我马上回来’，却再也没有回来。对我来说，那是谎言。

It was about me and it was about being able to be vulnerable about the fact that my brother dying broke my heart, that I was abandoned in my mind, in my little nine year old brain. That's what I felt, you know. He told me he was gonna be right back. And then he never came back. And to me, that was a lie.

“他为什么骗我？”——我不去想他是出了可怕事故，只觉得他说谎。他怎么能丢下我？就这样，我触及了核心。我遇到一位超棒却贵得离谱的治疗师。

Why did he lie? Not that he went off and had a terrible accident. He lied to me. How could he leave me? So, getting to the core, I had this amazing therapist who's completely unaffordable.

丹·西格尔。我请他上过我的节目。我曾在Netflix做过一档脱口秀，请他聊青少年大脑及其发育。我听着听着心想：这说的好像就是我的大脑啊——那时我都四十了。

Dan Siegel. I had him on my show. I had a talk show on Netflix for a while and I had him on my show talking about like the adolescent brain and the development of the adolescent brain. And I was like, that kinda sounds like my brain. You know, meanwhile, was like, you know, 40.

“有很多相似之处。”我说，“我想再跟你聊聊。”他说：“那你约个时间吧。”我回：“不，咱们就录节目聊，我可不想……”但他激起了我的兴趣，让我觉得：好吧，我可以谈谈。

And I was like, there's a lot of similarities. I was like, I'd like to talk to you some more. And he's like, well, maybe you should, you know, make an appointment. And I was like, no, no, we'll do it on camera. You know, like, I don't wanna go to And then he piqued my interest enough that I thought, okay, I could talk.

我是个爱学习的人，对大脑发育、什么伤害大脑、什么滋养大脑特别好奇。于是我用非常线性的方式，像在读心理学学位一样去钻研。

I'm such a learner. Like, I love learning about stuff. And I was very curious about the brain development and what hurts your brain, what helps your brain. And so I went out at a very like linear approach. And and I I acted like I was, you know, almost getting a degree in psychology.

记得第一次会谈，他说：“聊聊你的童年吧。”我说：“我九岁时哥哥死了，父亲——”他说：

And I remember in one of our very first sessions, he said, let's talk about your childhood. I was like, my brother died when I was nine. Father He said,

“等等。”

hold on.

我妈死了。我爸也该死。希望他能快点死。我当时想，但这不是重点。我一点耐心都没有。

My mom's dead. My dad should die. Hopefully, he'll die soon. Like and I was like, but it's not about that. I have no patience.

我很愤怒，对蠢人毫无耐心。就像，我的，你知道。他说，好吧。但他得下功夫，因为他看出来我全副武装、外壳很厚，而且开始裂了。他的任务就是把我撬开，他做到了。

I'm angry and I have no patience for stupid people. Like, was my, you know. And he was like, okay. But he had to work me because he saw what he was dealing with and that I had this huge veneer and like armor on and that it was kind of cracking. And then it was his job to crack me open and he did.

然后，这本身又是另一段经历，大概花了两年。我就想，好了，治疗够了。我学到了很多。我学到了很多关于自己行为的东西，关于我为什么做这些事。

And then I, you know, that in and of itself is a whole other experience because that took about two years. And then I was like, okay, that's enough therapy. Like, I got it. I got a lot of a lot of lessons here. I've learned a lot about my behavior, about why I do the things I do.

我学到了很多共情、很多怜悯，也学到更谨慎地选择什么时候插话、什么时候表达观点。然后你开始困惑，心想，这个新版本是谁？那个有趣的我去哪了？现在这是我吗？有点无聊啊。

I learned a lot about empathy, a lot about compassion, and a lot about being more discerning about when I insert myself and express my opinions. And then you become confused because you're like, who is this newer version of me? Is this who I where's the fun me? Is this me now? Like, this is a little boring.

接着你记得我去参加晚宴，不再插话，因为他一直强调：你不必当每个人的娱乐，那不是你的责任。你不必一出现就点亮整个房间。我说，好。于是我就去晚宴，然后变得特别安静。

And then you're like, oh, I remember going to dinner parties and, like, not inserting myself because he like, one of his big things is like, you don't have to be everyone's entertainment. That's not your responsibility. You don't have to go light up a room when you're there. And I'm like, okay. So I'd go to dinner parties, and then I'd be, like, really quiet.

我朋友问，你怎么了？怎么不说话？我说，我在观察。他们说，这不好玩，我们要原来的Chelsea回来。

My friends are like, what's your problem? Why aren't you talking? I'm like, I'm just observing. I'm like they're like, this isn't fun. Like, we want Chelsea back.

我说，我不知道她现在在哪，不知道她还会不会回来。我正在尝试几种不同的人格。所以那是一段很怪异的时期。昨天我在Instagram上看到一段话说——是个治疗师发的。

And I'm like, I don't know where Chelsea is right now. Like, I don't know if she's coming back. I'm experimenting with some different personalities right now. So it was just a very strange period. And I I saw something on Instagram yesterday where somebody was saying like, it was a therapist.

她说，你会经历这些阶段，非常不确定发生了什么，感觉很不稳，但没关系，因为你正在成长为更新的自己。是的。所以治疗后的几年里我一直很不舒服，还在想，这到底是什么？直到我站稳脚跟，真正明白我是谁，并去直面所有让我不安的东西，那些让我失衡、让我无法

And she was saying, you go through these phases and you're so unsure of what's happening and you feel so unsteady, but it's Okay because you're growing into the newer version of yourself. Yes. And so, was so uncomfortable for a couple like a couple of years after therapy, subsequent to therapy, I was still like, what is this? And then when I landed on my feet and really understood who I am and went after all of the things I was having insecurities about, like all of the things that kind of were tipping me over that weren't allowing me to

“成为一棵树”。你到底有什么不安的？说真的。

be a tree. What the hell did you have insecurities about? Like, honest to God.

所有事。比如，为什么我无法像别人那样想要个丈夫？是不是我有什么问题？也许我性格有问题，连跟另一个人一起生活都做不到。

Just everything. Like, why didn't I, like, relate? Like, why don't I want a husband? Maybe something's wrong with me. What maybe something's wrong with my personality that I can't even put up with another person.

我的事业，就像，我经历过一段事业低谷期，事情都不顺利，我想要的机会也得不到。但不安全感，你可以对任何事都不安，你知道吗？也许我太过了。也许我是个自恋狂，你知道吗？就像，也许我疯了。

My career, like, I went through a period of my career where things weren't going well and I wasn't getting opportunities that I wanted to get. But just in insecure, you can be insecure about anything, you know? Maybe I am too much. Maybe I'm maybe I'm a narcissist, you know? Like, maybe I'm crazy.

也许我不值得被爱。也许我所有这些问题都有。任何人会经历的，我都经历过。而且，你知道，那更像是一次漂洗周期。就是说，它没有持续很久，因为我知道这是又一次我对自己说：得靠你自己爬出来。

Maybe I'm unlovable. Maybe I'm all these things. Anything that anyone goes through, I went through. And, you know, it was more of a rinse cycle. Like, it didn't last for very long because I know I knew it was another instance where I was like, it's up to you to climb out of this.

所以就继续爬，继续做。我开始冥想。我开始真正扎根。你知道，我停掉了所有负面的东西。我不再和朋友八卦。

So keep climbing and keep doing it. I started meditating. I started getting really grounded. You know, I stopped with all of the the negative. I stopped gossiping with my friends.

我失去了很多朋友，因为我不想再做以前那些事。但后来我又交到了很多更好的朋友。你明白我的意思吗？就像，是啊。我当时就想，我是不是个孤僻的人？

I lost a lot of friends because I didn't wanna do the shit I used to do. But then I gained so many friends that were are such better friends. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. I just thought, like, am I a loner?

我是不是根本不适合这个世界？我是不是选错了职业？那是一段两年的时间，我

Am I just not meant for this world? Am I in the wrong career? It was a period of two years where I

就是觉得没有根基，觉得自己不像站在自己的鞋子里。那你学到了什么？因为我觉得愤怒这种情绪，尤其是对女性来说，它会在表面下 simmer，即使对那些更克制、是观察者或讨好者型的女性也是如此。会有那种怨恨。就像，连那些用愧疚感操控孩子的妈妈，她们表面下也有愤怒，觉得“我付出了这么多，我应该被好好对待，却没有得到我应得的照顾”。

just didn't feel grounded and I didn't feel like I was in my shoes. And what did you learn? Because I think the emotion of anger, particularly for women, it kind of simmers under the surface even for women that are a little bit more pulled back and are watchers or people pleasers. There's that sort of resentment. Like, even with moms that put on the guilt trip, there's that anger that simmers underneath that that something is owed to me and I'm not being cared for in the way that I deserve based on what I've done.

所以我很想听听，在治疗过程中，你对愤怒以及如何处理愤怒有什么洞察，它背后可能藏着什么。嗯，它背后其实是痛苦。你在受伤。而愤怒就像，

And so I would love to hear if there was any insight that you had in the process of therapy around anger and dealing with anger and what might be underneath it. Well, what's underneath it is pain. You're hurting. And anger is like,

你知道的，是你的盾牌。愤怒是你不愿脆弱的方式。愤怒是你说“我哭不出来”的方式。我直到40岁才为我哥哥哭出来，直到我去看那位治疗师。我从不允许自己足够脆弱，如果有人说，“天啊，你哥哥在你10岁时去世了。”

you know, your shield. Anger is your way to not be vulnerable. Anger is your way to say, like, I couldn't cry. I couldn't cry about my brother until I was 40 years old, until I went to this therapist. I would never allow myself to be vulnerable enough to, if someone said, Oh, my God, your brother died when you were 10.

我会说，是啊，又怎样。又不是你杀了他。不是你的问题。就像，愤怒是你的盾牌，也是你的恢复。你不是愤怒，

I'm like, Yeah, whatever. You didn't kill him. It's not your problem. Like, the anger is your shield and your recovery. You're not angry.

你是受伤了。而且没人来照顾你。没人问“你还好吗？”没人，没人这么做。没人问我好不好，但我也不会让任何人靠近那个话题。

You're hurt. And no one came to take care of you. No one said, Are you Okay? No one no one did. No one asked me if I was okay, but I wasn't gonna allow anybody to get that close on that subject matter.

所以我觉得，每当我们生气时，它其实都是在掩盖受伤。你知道吗？就像一条毯子。而当你能够变得脆弱，承认你感到受伤，那么一切皆有可能。就像，一切都能解决。

So I think anytime we're angry, it's covering up hurt. You know? It's like it's blanket. And when you can get to be, like, when you can get to be vulnerable about the fact that you feel hurt, then anything is possible. Like, then anything is solvable.

因为任何爱你或关心你的人，只要你诚实地说，这就是我的感受。怨恨也是一样。你在怨恨什么？你受伤了。你在痛苦中。

Because anyone who loves you or cares about you, as long as you can be honest and be like, this is how it feels. Like, resentment is the same thing. What are you resentful about? You're hurt. You're you're in pain.

你觉得被轻视了。有人对你做了什么。那是关于你的自尊吗？还是关于别的什么，你到底怎么了？我刚从一个场合出来，离开时满心怨恨。

Something you feel slighted. Somebody did something to you. Is that about your ego? Or is that about something like, what's going on with you? I just came from a situation where I came away feeling resentful.

我当时想，我对这感觉不好。我刚刚和一群我爱的人在一起，为什么我却感觉不好？我得跟自己独处了三天。然后我明白了，哦，你受伤了，你怨恨是因为这个、这个、这个和这个。

And I was like, I don't feel good about this. I just spent time with a bunch of people that I love. Why do I not feel good about this? And I had to sit with myself for like three days. And I'm like, oh, you're hurt and you're resentful because of this, this, and this, and this.

而这责任在你。你知道的，就像，我从未表达过这些。所以别人根本没有机会理解我的感受，因为我从未让自己说出，我需要你们给我这些。

And that's on you. You know, like, that's I've never communicated that. So no one has any ability to even understand how I'm feeling because I've never allowed myself to say, these are the things I need from you.

这真是个美妙的洞见，就刚刚那段。因为在那些时刻，生活里确实很容易——尤其是和家人、密友或伴侣在一起时——就默认事情会按某种方式发展，然后你觉得被轻视，或觉得没人关心你。是的，然后你说得对，怨恨就堆积起来，你还以为那是他们的错。

That's a beautiful insight, by the way. Like just that right there. That in those moments, because it is easy in life, typically with family or close friends or partners or whatever, to just expect that things are gonna go a certain way and then you feel slighted or you feel like nobody cared. Yeah. And then you're right, the resentment builds up and you think it's on them.

可如果你真的停下来，再深入一点，确实如此。你有没有开口要你需要的东西？你因为没得到而受伤，但你知道吗，你有没有把需求说清楚，好让别人能回应？我此刻不是在说你，你知道我是在对我自己说，因为我想让这话刻进脑子里，这样我就不会对我在乎的人积攒那么多愤怒和怨恨。

But if you really stop and drop in a little bit deeper, it's true. Like, did you ask for what you need? Like, you're hurt you didn't get it but you know, do you even ask for the things to make it clear so people can show up, which I'm not talking to you right now. You know I'm talking to myself because I'm trying to make sure that this imprints so I don't have so much anger and resentment toward the people that

还有评判。你知道吗？评判也会立刻反噬你自己。我可能非常爱评判，什么都可能评头论足。

I care It's also like judgment. You know? Judgment is go right back at you. Like, I can be very judgmental. It could be about anything.

是的。每当我发现自己又在评判时，我得问自己，你现在在干嘛？你对自己哪点不满意，才需要去评判别人？一个毫无评判的人最让人神清气爽，真的。

Yes. And every time I catch myself being judgmental, I have to say, what are you doing right now? What is this about with you that you don't feel good about yourself, that you feel the need to judge someone else? There's nothing more refreshing than a person that has no judgment. It's so true.

确实如此。最好的人就是那样的人。一个毫无评判、不在乎你做什么、穿什么、说什么，只是单纯觉得你有趣的人，你知道吗？那就太棒了。啦啦啦。

There really isn't. Like, that's the best kind of person there is. Somebody who is judgment free, doesn't give a shit what you do, what you wear, what you say, and just gets a kick out of you, you know? And it's like, that's great. La la la.

这就是生活。而这正是我想成为的样子。我想成为一个不带任何评判的人。就像，那是下一个境界。我迫不及待想有一天达到那里。

C'est la vie. And that's really what I wanna be. I wanna be somebody who doesn't have any judgment. Like, that's the next level. Like, I can't wait to get there one day.

我还没到那一步。就像当你对某人生气，有人让你神经紧绷，那其实都关乎你自己，你知道吗？就像，有人嚼东西让你烦，那是你的问题。你明白吗？

I'm not there yet. It's like when you get annoyed with somebody, somebody grates on your nerves, that's all about you too. You know? Like, somebody's chewing and that's bothering you, that's about you. You know?

有人发出你不喜欢的声音。

Somebody's making noises you don't like.

我的天啊。那也是你的问题。真的不关他们的事。你知道吗？你得问问自己，你干嘛要在意？

Oh my god. That's about you too. That's really not about them. You know? You kinda have to go, why are you who gives a shit?

我很好奇你这些自我成长的工作是如何影响你的喜剧的，我来告诉你为什么。我妈曾经说了一句特别搞笑的话。她说，我为什么要去做心理治疗？就为了发现我余生都恨你爸？我宁愿就这么痛苦地熬过去。

I'm curious about how all of this work on yourself impacted your comedy and I'm gonna tell you why. My mom once said something so hilarious. She goes, why would I wanna go to therapy? So I can find out I hate your father in my life? I I think I'd rather just suffer through it.

懂了吗？她是开玩笑，但我觉得她是认真的。你懂我意思吗？我可以说，哦，你有没有担心过你会失去你的锋芒，或者在那两年里？因为即便你不做治疗，如果发生了可怕或出乎意料的事，比如惨烈的分手、失业。

Okay? You know, she was joking, but I don't think so. You know what I'm saying? I can say, oh, was there were you concerned at all that you'd like lose your edge or that, you know, in that two year period? Because even if you don't go through therapy, if you have something horrendous happen or surprising happen, go through a horrible breakup, you lose your job.

就像当你脚下的土地崩塌，你失去了所爱的人，你不得不面对废墟并清算自己、重新建立新的人生，那种天翻地覆会让你疑惑我是谁？但当你主动走进治疗并开始改变，我喜欢你坦诚地说出那一刻：我到底喜不喜欢这个人？我还是我自己吗？你有没有担心这会影响你的喜剧，或者你就不好笑了？

Like when the earth shatters beneath you and you lose somebody you love and you are now dealing with the wreckage and the reckoning of having to create something new, there is that ground shifting of wondering who am I? But when you're doing it intentionally in therapy and then you start to change and I loved how honest you were about that moment when you say, do I even like this person? Am I even myself? Am I no did you have a concern that it would impact your comedy or you wouldn't be funny?

那时候我根本没演脱口秀，因为我确定自己不会好笑。我当时想，我现在一点都不好笑。我大概停了六年没演脱口秀。我彻底燃尽了。三十多岁时我把生活的一切——节目、书、脱口秀——都推得太猛太快。

I wasn't even doing stand up at that time because I I was like, definitely not gonna be funny. I was like, oh, I'm not funny right now. I had taken a break from stand up for about six years. I got so burned out. I just went so hard and so fast with everything in my life when I was in my thirties with my show and my books and my stand up.

结果把自己累垮了。我就是这种人，我会把杯子倒得溢出来。我想要两杯，不止一杯。我想全力以赴，你知道，这就是我的人生方式。

And I burned myself out. And that's me. I overfill. Like, I, you know, I want two glasses, not one. I want I I wanna go for it, you know, like, that's that's kind of my my life.

所以之后，我长时间停了脱口秀，也就是那时我开始做治疗。那段时间里我一点也不觉得自己好笑，我只是在努力搞清楚自己是谁，并且有幸不必非去演脱口秀。我给Netflix拍了一部更严肃的纪录片系列，还做了几个更严肃的项目。

So after that, like, I took a long break from stand up and that's when I went to therapy. And there was no time during that did I feel funny. I was just trying to figure out who I was and had the luxury to not have to to do stand up. And I, you know, I filmed a documentary series that was much more serious for Netflix. And I filmed a couple of more serious projects.

那就是我当时必须做的事。如今我重新站起来，自复出以来我已经做了三场专场。最近的一部在Netflix上线，叫《那种感觉》，几个月前刚发布。那段适应期、天翻地覆期，一旦你穿过那片泥泞，你会比经历之前强大十倍。你更坚韧、更健壮、更沉稳、也更脚踏实地。

And that's what I needed to do at that time. Now that I've come back to stand up, I think I've done three specials since I started back up. My most recent one being on Netflix called The Feeling that just came out a couple months ago. That adjustment period and that ground shifting period, once you get through that mud, like, you are 10 times the person you were before you got went through it. You are stronger, you are fitter, and you are stable, and you are grounded.

然后一切就都值得了。但那段过程并不迷人、也不好玩，甚至可以说毫无吸引力。

And and then it's all worth it. But that period of time is not attractive or fun or appealing, I should say.

让我感触最深的一点是，我特别喜欢把书当礼物送人。这本《我要她所拥有的》，我会毫不犹豫地送给我生命中任何一位女性，因为它不仅爆笑，而且你——显然，我觉得我在说废话——你金发碧眼，还是个超有梗的作家。谢谢。你的故事太搞笑了。

Well, one of the things that struck me is I love giving books as a gift. This book, I'll Have What She's Having, I would 1000% give to absolutely any woman in my life because not only is it hilarious, but you're obvious. I feel like I'm like, not only are you a white woman with blonde hair, you know, like I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but you're a hilarious writer. Thank you. You have hilarious stories.

而且书里有很多深刻的感悟让我惊喜。第162页有一段话特别美：‘我成了自己想为每个重要的人成为的样子——我最好的朋友、我自己的啦啦队。’天啊，我都要哽咽了。

And there's also such profound takeaways that really surprised me. And one of the most beautiful passages in this book is on page 162. I have become for myself what I've tried to be for every important person in my life. My own best friend, my own cheerleader. Oh my God, this makes me choke up.

‘我自己的倾听者、我的母亲、我的姐妹。我成了我自己的女儿。’这是什么意思？

My own listener, my mother, my sister. I became my own daughter. What does that mean?

意思是我给自己撑腰。当我跟自己对话、经历难关时，我会说：‘我罩着你。我罩着你。我一直都在，已经把你带到这么远，也会把你送到下一个目的地。’

That means I got my back. Like, when I'm talking to myself and I'm going through something, I'm like, I got you. I got you. I've been here this whole time, and I've gotten you this far, and I will get you to the next place you're going to.

我们为什么会忘记这一点？

Why do we forget that?

我不知道。真的不知道。其实今天我也需要听到这句话，需要从我自己的书里听到，说给我，也说给你。

I don't know. I don't know. I needed to hear that today, actually. I needed to hear the words from my own book to me and to you.

那你读读看？

Why don't you read it?

‘我成了自己想为每个重要的人成为的样子：我最好的朋友、我自己的啦啦队、我自己的倾听者、我的母亲、我的姐妹。我成了我自己的女儿。’

I became for myself what I've tried to be for every important person in my life. My own best friend, my own cheerleader, my own listener, my mother, my sister. I became my own daughter.

你是怎么为自己做到这一点的？

How do you do that for yourself?

你得爱自己。而且你必须每天醒来都说，我知道你每天早上都会对着镜子给自己击掌。我每天醒来，都会看着镜子说，今天咱们要去搞点什么好玩的事呢，你这个漂亮的人类。

You have to love yourself. And you have to wake up every single day and say, I know you've high five yourself in the mirror every day. I wake up every single day. I look in the mirror and I say, what kind of shenanigans are we gonna get up to today? You beautiful human being.

你真的会这么说。我会这么说。是的。我是说，有些早上我没说，但我确实会说。我今天早上就说了。

You literally say that. I say that. Yes. I mean, there are mornings I don't say it, but I say it. I said it this morning.

我一直对自己说，你太棒了。如果我看见镜子，我就会说，你太棒了。看看你做到了什么。你真不可思议。就像，还有谁会每天告诉我们这些？

I say to myself all the time, you're amazing. If I see a mirror, I'm like, you're amazing. Look what you've done. You're incredible. Like, who the fuck else is gonna tell us that every day?

我们必须这么做。我们所有女性，以及对正在听这段话的女性，你知道，我们必须确保每天都提醒自己我们内在和天生的价值。我们非常有价值。仅仅因为我们存在，就已经是价值。而且我们可以为很多人的生活增添巨大的价值。

We have to. And we all as women and to the woman that is listening to this, you know, to we have to make sure that we remind ourselves every day of our intrinsic and innate value. We are so valuable. Just by the nature of us being here is value. And we can add so much value to so many people's lives.

无论你是名人还是公众人物，都没有关系。作为一个过着更安静生活的普通人，你同样有能力做到这一点。每次你在街上看到一个新的人，你都可以用充满爱意的眼神对他们微笑。你可以在机场看到有人正经历困难，走过去说，你需要帮助吗？我能帮你吗？

And it doesn't matter if you're a famous person or you're a public person. You either have the ability to do that as a private person with a quieter life. Every time you see a new person on the street, you can smile at them with love in your eyes. You can see somebody going through a hard time at the airport and come over and be like, do you need help? Can I help you?

在机场洗手间工作的那个人，也可以微笑着说，你怎么样？今天过得好吗？我总觉得心情好的时候这么做很容易。但当你心情不好时，在你根本不想动的时候仍然伸出慷慨之手，那才是更高层次。当你情绪低落，看到有人也在挣扎，而你说，我要把自己从自我中抽离出来，去关心别人一秒钟，猜猜看，你同时完成了两件事。

The person that's working in the airport bathroom to smile and say, how are you doing? Are you having a good day? I always think that's easy to do when you're in a good mood. But when you're in a bad mood, to extend your generosity when you don't fucking feel like it, that's like next level. When you're in a bad mood and you see somebody that's struggling and you're like, I'm gonna take myself out of myself and go and think about someone else for a second, guess what you're accomplishing two things.

你在帮助别人，同时也在疗愈自己的愤怒。因为你会立刻意识到，问题并不在于你的渺小，也不在于那些让你烦心的事。你明白我的意思吗？

You're helping another person, and then you're healing your anger. Because then you realize right away it's not about your smallness and whatever is upsetting. You know what I mean?

太对了。太对了。你知道，你说过的另一句话我很爱，你说经过多年的治疗，你意识到有时候你只需要放手。不一定非要打一场仗。没有什么比不发脾气更像胜利了。

So true. It's so true. You know, another thing that you said that I love is you said after years of therapy, you realize sometimes you just need to let go. It doesn't have to be a war. And nothing feels like winning more than not losing your temper.

怎么

How

你学会怎么不发脾气了吗？

did you learn how to not lose your temper?

从Dan Siegel那里学的。Dan Siegel教会了我。我以前脾气特别暴躁。现在当我生气时，比如我一直在处理一些私事，那些是物质层面的，不值得在这里说。但它还是对我造成了影响，对我的人际关系，对很多事情。

From Dan Siegel. Dan Siegel taught me that. I used to have the craziest temper. Now when I get mad, like I've been dealing with a lot of some, like, personal stuff that's not, it's material stuff, so it's not worth discussing on this. It's still it's taken a toll, right, on me, on my relationships, on a lot of things.

它确实让我受累了。现在当我真的因为那个问题而心烦，收到坏消息时——有时候感觉没完没了——我会退后。我不会暴怒，不会大喊，我只是离开。

It's taken a toll. And now if I when I do get upset and I get bad news regarding that matter, which seems never ending at times, I retreat. I don't I'm not rageful. I don't yell. I just go away.

我会沉默，一个人待着，因为没有人该承受我的怒火。

I become silent and I stick to myself because no one deserves my anger.

没有人。尤其不该是你。对吧。

No one. Especially not you. Right.

下一步我甚至觉得我连自己都不该承受这份怒火。但我恢复得更快了，多亏了Dan，我不再向外爆发。我不会对人吼，不会对任何人尖叫。我以前会。

And that would be the next step that I don't even deserve my anger. But I am I recover much more easily because of Dan, and I don't I don't outwardly rage. I don't yell at people. I don't scream at anyone. I used to.

现在我很尴尬，那完全是失控。就算我和别人严肃谈话，我也不会吼他们。比如飞机上有人混蛋，男人对空姐不好，我会开口，但我会冷静、有尊严地说，这样对方就无法升级冲突。

I'm embarrassed now. It's such a loss of control. I mean, even if I'm having a stern conversation with someone, I'm not yelling at them. You know, if someone's an asshole on a plane, like a man is treating the flight attendant in a bad way, I will say something. But I will say it with cum and, you know, in an indignified way because then they can't escalate.

你知道，你没法跟一个讲道理的人争吵。

You know, you can't argue with somebody who's being reasonable.

这

That's

是真的。所以最大的胜利就是别发脾气。

true. So the biggest victory of all is to not lose your temper.

你真的把书献给了空乘人员。

You actually dedicate your book to flight attendants.

我爱空乘。

I love flight attendants.

为什么？

How come?

因为他们太棒了，他们忍受的那些破事简直难以置信。他们真的经历了很多。他们在天上基本上就是人质。我是说，有些男人上飞机后会脱袜子抠脚趾。还有个女人。

Because they're amazing, and the shit that they put up with is unbelievable. They have been through it. They are basically hostages when they are up there in the sky. I mean, there are men that go on planes and take their socks off and pick their toes. There was a woman.

大家总在Instagram上给我发这些东西，因为我一直公开讲飞机礼仪。就是要把脚盖好，把手放在大家看得见的地方。对。

Somebody people send this stuff to me all the time on Instagram because I've been very vocal about, you know, plane etiquette. It's like keep your feet covered and keep your fingers where everybody can see them. Yes.

你知道，

You know,

有个女人在飞机上晾内裤，就在那个——那叫什么？你的桌子——小桌板？小桌板。对，你的桌面。

there was a woman who was drying her underwear on a plane on her what is that called? Your desk your The tray table? Tray table. Yes. Your desktop.

有人发给我这个：一个女人在小桌板上晾内裤。我是说，人都疯了。所以空乘值得我们尊敬，我们必须照顾他们。

There was a woman somebody sent me this. A woman drying her underwear on her tray table. I mean, people have lost it. So flight attendants deserve our respect. We have to always look out for them.

如果他们被骚扰，我们必须站出来保护他们。

And if they're getting harassed, we have to defend them.

是的，我同意，我完全同意。你说快乐是你的目标。对你来说快乐意味着什么？

Yes. I agree. I absolutely agree. You say that joy is your purpose. What does joy mean to you?

意思是点亮一切，你知道的，就像把灯打开，走进一个房间，让大家因为你出现而感觉良好，确保你看见大家，点亮他们，尤其是那些被忽视的人。现在对我来说站在舞台上，就像我通过休息六年重新校准了自己，我重新调整了。现在当我在舞台上、巡演时、录制专场时，我如此敏锐、如此专注，我更加意识到笑声这份礼物，没有什么比看到两个陌生观众一起笑得前仰后合并靠在一起更让我开心。对我来说，这就是礼物。哦，我能给你们这个。

Means lighting things up, you know, like lighting things up, walking into a room and making sure people feel good about you being there, making sure you see people, lighting them up, you know, especially the people that don't get the attention, you know. Like being on stage now for me, like I've recalibrated by taking that break that I took six years, like, I've recalibrated. I'm so sharp and so focused when I'm on stage now, when I'm touring, when I my specials, like, I'm so much more aware of the gift of laughter that, you know, like nothing brings me more joy than seeing two people, strangers in my audience laughing hysterically together and kind of like leaning on each other. Like, that to me is the gift. Like, oh, I get to give you that.

你知道，你能忘记一小时这个世界有多疯狂，不管发生了什么。我能给你这个。现在，因为我所做的努力，我到了人生的这个阶段，我非常珍惜它。我非常感激。当我走上舞台时，我迫不及待想开始表演。

You know, you forget for an hour that the world is a crazy place and whatever is happening. Like, I get to give you that. And now I'm at a stage in my life because of the work that I've done where I I'm I'm so I honor that. Like, I I'm I'm so appreciative. When I walk out on stage, I can't wait to get on stage.

我绝不会抱怨。而年轻时我会说，我太累了，我做不到。你知道的，就是被宠坏了。嗯。

I would never complain about it. Whereas when I was younger, I'd be like, I'm so tired. I can't do this. You know, like, just spoiled. Yeah.

还有感恩，真的对每一次机会心怀感激。即使，我刚结束欧洲巡演，25天里走了17个国家。

And just gratitude, really being grateful about every opportunity that I have. And even if, you know, I just did a European tour, I did like 17 countries in twenty five days.

哦我的天。我听说我变得负面了。对不起，但这真的——

Oh my gosh. I hear I went negative. I'm sorry, but that's It's so

疯狂，但也特别美好。年轻时我会想，为什么这里只有一千人？为什么没有一千五百人？但这次，在那些演出没售罄的夜晚，我会说：不，我是来为到场的人表演的。

crazy, but it was so beautiful. Like when I was younger, I would have been like, why isn't this, know, why aren't there only a thousand people? Why aren't there 1,500 people? This but this time, like, on in those instances, on the nights where where the shows weren't sold out, was like, no. I'm here to perform for the people that are here.

我是来把快乐注入他们生活的。我不关注没来的人，我关注在场的人。所以这种思维转变几乎可以应用到——

Like, I'm here to inject joy into their lives. I'm not focusing on the people that are not here. I'm focusing on the people that are here. And so, like, that mind switch about almost everything. You can apply it to

任何事。就像，你追着某些朋友跑，但你真的感激那些就在身边的人吗？你追着你没去的派对，但你真的感激在你需要时出现的人吗？对，有太多可以套用，因为我们总看到没有的，或我们缺失的，而不是真正面对眼前就在的东西。

anything. Like, you chase certain friends, but are you actually grateful for the ones that are here? You know, you chase the parties that you're not at but are you grateful for the people who actually show up when you need them? Right. There's so much to apply to that because we see what's not or we see what we don't have or what's lacking instead of really being present to the thing that's right there in front of your face.

太美了。嗯，太美了。你知道，你在书结尾写了一段我特别喜欢的话。如果你翻开书，从第一百九十三页开始，我想请你读一读你的畅销大作《我也要她拥有的》。

It's so beautiful. Yeah. So beautiful. You know, you write this passage at the end of the book that I just loved. And if, if you open up your copy and you start on page one ninety three, I would love to have you read from your blockbuster bestseller, I'll Have What She's Having.

好的。这是写给此刻正在听的你。也给你很多爱。我的中间名是Joy，我现在明白快乐就是我人生的目的。把快乐、安慰、理解、可靠带给任何需要的人。

Okay. This is to the person who's with us right now. Sending you lots of love too. My middle name is Joy, and I now understand that joy is my purpose in life. To bring joy, comfort, understanding, dependability to anyone who needs it.

我想传播和创造的这份喜悦没有任何条件。我是风暴中呼啸的风，是给那些急需生命能量的人带来的那股冲劲。我为女性而来，这就是我的使命。我来是为了托起、激励和倾听。

This joy that I want to spread and create doesn't come with any conditions. I am the wind blowing through a storm, the jolt of energy that I can bring to people who are in desperate need of a life boost. I am here for women. That is my purpose. I am here to lift, to inspire, and to listen.

只要有一位女性身处困境，我都会尽力把她从深渊里拉出来，助她重新站起。我为LGBTQ+群体的每一位成员而来，也为任何感觉被忽视的人而来。我为弱者而来，我来展示同情、共情与爱。一旦我明确了自己的使命，我那明亮的灯泡与光辉便开始闪耀。我能在绝望中找到喜悦，在纷争中慷慨以待。

There is not a woman in need that I wouldn't try to help pull out of whatever hole she is in to help lift her up. I am here for every member of the LGBTQ plus community and for any person who does not feel seen. I'm here for the underdogs, and I'm here to demonstrate compassion, empathy, and love. Once I identified my purpose, my bright bulb and effulgence began to shine. I am able to find joy in times of despair and generosity in times of strife.

我的人生已经超越了我小时候坐在草坪上、等待那个再也没有回来的哥哥向我解释一切时所能想象的一切。

My life has become even more than I could have imagined as a little girl sitting on my lawn waiting for the brother who never returned to explain himself to me.

现在请你翻到第299页，把最后那段读给听众听。

And now I want you to flip to page two ninety nine and read that last part to the listener.

现在，你的工作就是让那支蜡烛继续燃烧，不要让任何人——包括你自己——把它吹灭。你光芒四射，你真实不虚，你是慷慨的明亮光束。别停下你正在做的事，因为你正走向伟大的未来。

Now it's your job to keep that candle lit and not to let anyone, including yourself, blow it out. You are effulgent. You are true. You are a bright beam of generosity. Don't stop what you're doing because you are on your way to great things.

抓住那束光。每天照镜子，对自己说：嗨，美人儿，今天我们要一起干点什么大事？看，我确实这么说。

Hold on to the light. Look in the mirror every day and tell yourself, hello, beautiful. What great things are we going to get up to today? See, I do say that.

是的，你确实这么做了。我喜欢这一点，因为它感觉像是一个完整的循环：简对你说，别让环境改变你，你要做你自己，然后去改变环境。而这正是你所做到的。

Yes, do. You do. What I love is that it feels very full circle because what Jane said to you, don't let the environment change you. You be yourself and change the environment. And that's exactly what you've done.

我脑海里一直浮现一个画面：我不知道你在主持哪个颁奖典礼，但那幅画面完美呈现了今天的你。你站在舞台上，看起来绝对惊艳绝伦，你掌控着整个房间。

And I keep having this vision of you. I don't know what award ceremony you were hosting, but it feels like this perfect vision of the woman that you are today. You're standing on stage. You look absolutely devastatingly spectacular. You are commanding the room.

所有的目光都聚焦在你身上，每个人都在笑。你稳稳地掌控着场子，从容自在，乐在其中。

All eyes are on you. Everybody's laughing. You just are holding the space. You are at ease. You're having fun.

你穿着一条绝美的直筒礼服，手臂上打着石膏。我之所以喜欢这幅画面，是因为在通读你的书、真正与你共度时光之后，我明白了：那就是你在我们所有人面前疗愈、并立于力量之中的样子。我为你感到无比骄傲。哦，我爱你。我也爱你。

You're wearing this gorgeous column dress, and you have a cast on. And what I love about this image of you, now that I've gotten to devour your book and to really get to spend time, is that that's you healing in front of us all and standing in your power. I am so proud of you. Oh, I love you. I love you too.

太美了。谢谢你这么说。

That's so beautiful. Thank you for saying that.

我是认真的。就像真的突然浮现在我眼前，你站在那里，我能看见那条柱形长裙和那双高跟鞋，大概，我不知道，像摩天大楼那么高，但你却打着石膏，这象征着所有美好事物的汇聚，也象征着你站在我们面前，示范如何疗愈自己、如何玩乐、如何为自己保留空间。

I mean it. Like it really just struck me like this image just came to me of you standing there and I can see the column dress and the heels that were like, I don't know, skyscraper high but then you had this cast on and that's representative of all the beautiful things that have come together and how you stand before us and show us how to heal ourselves and have fun and hold space for ourselves.

你说这个太有趣了。真的很有趣，因为影评人选择奖，我连续主持了三年，今年又要再主持，我却得了肩部感染。我冬天会在惠斯勒滑雪，我超爱滑雪。所以我在加拿大惠斯勒，回家后做了这个PRP注射。

It's so funny that you say that. It's so funny because that the Critics Choice Awards, which I've hosted for the last three years and I'm hosting again this year, I I got a shoulder infection. I was I I I ski in Whistler in the wintertime. I love skiing. So I was in Whistler, Canada, and I came home and I got this PRP injection.

立刻我就觉得，这不对劲，有毛病。他们说，没事，会肿一阵子。我回到洛杉矶。

And right away, I was like, this doesn't feel right. Something's wrong. And they're like, it's fine. It's gonna be inflamed for a little bit. I go back to LA.

他们说，哦，你得了葡萄球菌感染，必须手术。我说，什么？他们又说，你不能滑雪，什么都不能做。

They're like, oh, you have a you have a staph infection. We have to surgically operate. And I was like, what? And they're like, you can't ski. You can't do anything.

我说，我得拍我的生日滑雪视频啊，我每年穿比基尼拍，整座山都租好了，我必须滑。他们就说，不行。

I'm like, I have to film my birthday ski video. Like, I do this annually in my bikini every year. I've rented a mountain. Like, I I have to ski. And they're like, no.

你得在手臂上装PICC管，每24小时静脉注射一次，接下来30天出行都要带护士。我说，啥？啥？我只好说，好吧，好吧。

You're gonna get a PICC line in your arm, and you're gonna get intravenous injections every twenty four hours, and you're gonna have to travel with a nurse for the next thirty days. And I'm like, what? What? So I'm like, okay. Okay.

行，我要把坏事变好事。我想，显然有人想让我休息，对吧？你不能喝酒。

Fine. I'm gonna make the best out of a bad situation. I was like, obviously, somebody wants me to rest. Right? I you can't drink.

你什么都不能做，我痛苦死了。但我肩膀抬不起来，什么都干不了。我又想，可我得拍生日视频啊。

You can't do anything. I'm I'm miserable. And but I'm like, I can't lift my shoulder. I can't do anything. And I'm like, but I gotta film my birthday video.

我就说，咱们必须拍。他们劝我，你带着PICC管真不该拍。然后一周后我还得主持影评人选择奖。于是我带朋友飞到爱达荷那座山，我们就拍了。

And and I get my and I'm like, we gotta do it. And they're like, you really shouldn't be doing that, you know, with your pick line. Then I had to host the Critics Choice Awards, right, like a week after that. So I flew my friends to this mountain in Idaho. And we we we do the shoot.