如何设计你的人生（完整分步指南）

嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。你上一次坐下来认真思考自己想要的生活是什么样子，是什么时候？我说的不是待办清单、晚饭吃什么，或者梦想中的下一个假期去哪儿，我说的是你的人生，全局画面。

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. When was the last time you sat down and really thought about what you want your life to look like? Now I'm not talking about your to do list or what's for dinner or where you dream about going on your next vacation. I'm talking about your life. The big picture.

你知道的，当你展望未来时，你希望它是什么样子？你想住在哪里？你想做什么工作？你和谁一起混？未来的你感觉如何？

You know, when you look out to the future, what do you want it to be? Where do you wanna live? What do you want to do for work? Who do you hang out with? What does it feel like to be you out in the future?

如果你不主动设计自己的人生，你最终会过上自己从未想要的生活。但我有个好消息：有一个经过验证的三步法，可以在任何年龄设计你的人生。一位教授教了这门课十五年，今天她会带你和我完整走一遍。我们将一起完成这个人生设计流程。

Now, if you don't intentionally design your life, you're going to end up living a life you never wanted. But I have really great news. There is a proven three step method to designing your life at any age. A professor who's been teaching a course all about this process for fifteen years is here to walk you and me through it today. And we're going to go through this life design process together.

我非常兴奋能和你一起做这件事。我还会更进一步：我们的专家和我一起制作了一份独家的免费工作手册。它会一步步带你走完整个流程，并作为你和你所爱之人的免费伴侣。它与本期节目配套，让你可以设计自己想要的生活。

I'm so excited to do this with you. And I'm going to take this one step further. Our expert and I created an exclusive free workbook. This workbook is going walk you step by step through the process and it will serve as a free companion for you and all the people that you love. And it works with this episode so that you can design the life that you want.

今天，你和我不仅要学会怎么做，还要一起动手。嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。能和你在一起、共度这段时光，一直是我的荣幸。如果你是新听众，或者因为有人分享而来，我要亲自欢迎你加入梅尔·罗宾斯播客大家庭。今天，黛比·米尔曼教授来了。

And today, you and I are not only going to learn how, we're going to do it together. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. It is always an honor to be together and to spend this time with you. And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you, I just wanted to personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Today, Professor Debbie Millman is here.

十五年来，她在纽约视觉艺术学院开设人生设计课程。她写了七本畅销书。《快公司》称她是商业界最具创意的人之一，也是美国最具影响力的设计师之一。她不仅教人如何设计人生，还是实体产品的传奇设计师。如果你现在走进一家杂货店，货架上大约20%的包装都有她的设计手笔，这意味着她是 visionary。

For fifteen years, she has taught a course on life design at the School of Visual Arts in New York City. She is the author of seven best selling books. Fast Company calls her one of the most creative people in business and one of the most influential designers in The United States. And she not only teaches people how to design their life, but she is also a legendary designer of physical products. If you walk into a grocery store right now, Debbie has had a hand in designing about 20% of the packaging you see on the shelves, which means she's a visionary.

她的专业就是能从无到有地创造。今天，当你跟我一起走完这三步流程、设计你想要的人生时，我们也会这样做。你将学会如何站在当下，展望一个真正让你兴奋的未来。多酷啊？更棒的是，米尔曼教授和我一起制作了一份独家工作手册，她亲自为你和你关心的每个人设计。

Her expertise is that she can create something from nothing. And that's what you and I are gonna do when you go through this three step process today to design the life that you want. You're gonna learn how to stand in the present and envision something out in the future that really excites you. How cool is that? And even better, Professor Millman and I have created an exclusive workbook that she designed just for you and everybody that you care about.

而且完全免费。如果你在听节目，就在简介里；或者直接去 melrobbins.com/designyourlife 免费下载。请大家和我一起欢迎黛比·米尔曼教授来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。黛比·米尔曼教授，谢谢你来到这里。我非常兴奋你能来梅尔·罗宾斯播客。

And it's free. It's right in the show notes if you're listening, or you can just go to melrobbins.com/designyourlife and download it for free. So please help me welcome professor Debbie Melman to the Mel Robbins podcast. Professor Debbie Melman, thank you for being here. I'm so excited you are here on the Mel Robbins podcast.

谢谢。能来到这里真是太棒了

Thank you. It's just incredible

能来到这里。

to be here.

我很喜欢“设计你想要的人生”这个话题。我欣赏你的作品。从一开始我就盼着你来我们波士顿的工作室。谢谢你特地赶来。我想请你先直接对此刻正在收听的朋友说几句话。

Well, I love this topic of designing the life that you want. I love your work. You are somebody that I've been wanting to have here in our Boston studios from the very beginning. So thank you for making the trip. And I'd love to have you start by speaking directly to the person who's with us right now.

他们想要设计一个自己热爱的人生。那么，黛比，什么叫“设计你的人生”？设计

They want to design a life that they love. And so, Debbie, what does it mean to design your life? Designing

你的人生就是要有意图。它不是关于家具，也不是关于衣服，而是关于意图。它意味着你决定自己的人生该是什么样子、什么感觉、体现什么，然后制定计划去实现它。

your life is about intention. It's not about furniture. It's not about clothes. It's about intention. It's about making decisions about what you want your life to look like and feel like and embody and then creating a plan to try and make that happen.

我太喜欢这个说法了，因为你确实有一套流程，过去近二十年你一直在教给学生和研究生。是的，今天你会一步步带我们走一遍。不过，万一听众对你的工作不熟悉，或者他们不是平面设计师、企业家、艺术家、创意工作者——你能简单说说，你是如何把设计原则用在打造理想人生上的吗？

I absolutely love that because you do have a process that you have been teaching to students and graduate students for almost two decades. Yeah. And you're gonna walk us step by step through that process. And one of the things though in case the person listening isn't familiar with your work or they're not a graphic designer or business owner or somebody that that thinks about design, an artist, a creative. Can you just explain, you know, how you use design principles in relation to creating the life that you want?

设计的本质，就是对任何事物如何存在做出非常审慎的决定。它可以是一件产品，一个标志，一间房间，也可以是

Design in its essence is about very deliberate decisions about how you want anything to exist. It could be a product. It could be a logo. It could be a room. It could be

一顿

a

饭。凡是我们有意为之的东西，都可以被设计。我们设计自己的外表，设计自己的生活方式，甚至能学着去设计那些更无意识的部分，而这正是这套成长路线图真正让你做到的。

meal. Everything that we do intentionally is something that we can design. We design how we look. We design how we live. We can even begin to learn how to design some of the things that are more unconscious, and that's what this road map for growth really allows you to do.

它能让你唤醒那些你心怀希望与梦想、却可能因害怕而不敢正视或设计的东西。

It allows you to sort of wake up some of the things that you hope and dream for, but might have been too afraid to look at or see or design.

我喜欢“设计”这个话题，是因为尽管我不觉得自己有设计天赋，但只要我设身处地，无论是时装设计师、产品设计师还是艺术家，他们都在创造此刻尚不存在的东西。是的，绝对如此。这就是设计最强大之处。那么，人生真的可以像那样被设计吗？因为我觉得很多人都有过这种体验：我完全卡住了。

Well, what I love about the just topic of design is that even though I don't consider myself a talented designer, if I step in the shoes of somebody, whether they're designing fashion or they're designing products or they're they're creating art, It's the ability to create something that doesn't exist right now. Yes. Absolutely. And that's the design in its highest power. Is it possible to design your life like like because because I think that anybody so many of us have had the experience where I'm like completely stuck.

我不知道自己想要什么。而你即将带我们走一遍这个神奇的过程，让我们可以设计自己的人生。真的可能吗？那么，

I don't know what I want. And you're about to walk us through this incredible process where you can design your life. Is it really possible? Well,

梅尔，看看你做了什么。不，看看你做了什么。有一种方法可以让你为自己想要的东西开辟一条道路，即使这些东西会改变。因为关键不在于确定什么是可能的，而在于确定什么是可能的。

Mel, look what you've done. No. Look what you've done. There is a way in which you can create a pathway to be able to make decisions about what you want even if those things change. Because it's not about determining what is probable, it's about determining what is possible.

能够拥有人生的各种可能性，让你可以开始去体验这些可能性会是什么感觉。

And being able to have possibilities for your life allow you to be able to start to experiment with what those possibilities might feel like.

我喜欢你刚才说的。我想确保当你

I love what you just said. I wanna make sure that as you

听黛比讲话时，你真的明白了。关键不在于什么是可能的，而在于什么是可能的。是的。很多人做决定是基于他们认为最可能成功的结果。

were listening to Debbie that you really got that. It's not about what's probable. It's about what's possible. Yes. And a lot of people make decisions based on what they think is going to be the most likely successful outcome.

他们之所以这样决定，主要是因为害怕失败、被拒绝、被羞辱或因为尝试做某事而感到羞耻，而他们可能觉得自己根本没资格想要那样东西。我是凭经验说的，不是纸上谈兵。我谈这些不是因为我在大学学过。事实上，我的大部分经历都来自失败、被拒绝、对自己想要的东西或对自己的身份感到羞耻，然后努力克服这些，去理解我们只有一次生命，你可以带着创造力、清晰的头脑、精神力量和

And they make those decisions primarily because they're afraid to fail or be rejected or be humiliated or shamed for trying to do something that they might not think that they have any right to want. And I'm speaking from experience. I'm not just speaking theoretically. I'm not talking about this because I learned this in college. Actually, most of what I've experienced comes from failing or being rejected or feeling ashamed of what I wanted or who I am and trying to work through that to understand that we have this one life that you can move forward and create something with creativity, with clarity, with spirituality, with

诚实继续前进，创造出一些东西。你将通过这个过程——你已经教了人们近二十年——教我们如何为你此刻并不存在、甚至可能无法想象自己能创造出来的人生描绘一幅愿景。而你会在这里说，不，不，不，通过像设计师一样思考的过程，你可以有意识地设计出你想要的

honesty. And you're gonna teach us through this process that you have been teaching people for almost two decades how to create a vision from your life that doesn't exist right now and might even be something that you can't even comprehend that you could possibly create for yourself. And you're here to say, no, no, no, Through this process of thinking like a designer, you can intentionally design the life you

生活。是的。

want. Yeah.

我想先请你告诉我，你最初是怎么想出这个练习的。

I wanna start by having you tell me how you came up with this exercise in the first place.

嗯，这是我从别人那里学来的。这些种子不是我种下的，是别人为我种下的。2005年2月，我上了已故伟大设计师米尔顿·格拉泽的课。米尔顿·格拉泽是二十世纪最杰出的设计师之一。

Well, it's something that I learned from someone else. I didn't plant these seeds. These seeds were planted for me. In 02/2005, I took a class with the late great Milton Glaser. Milton Glaser is one of the great great designers of the twentieth century.

他创造了“我爱纽约”的标志。他创作了那张令人难忘的迪伦海报，迪伦是剪影，但他的头发是飞扬的彩色。这门课程最后一个练习是写一篇给五年后自己的文章，描述你希望自己的生活变成什么样。如果你能拥有、得到、成为任何你想要的东西，任何事。他要求我们认真对待。

He created the iHeart New York logo. He created that magnificent memorable Dylan poster where he's in silhouette, but his hair is all flying colors. And the last exercise of the class of this program was writing an essay to yourself about what you wanted to your life to look like five years in the future. If you could have and get and be anything that you wanted, Anything. And he asked us to take it very seriously.

他说他教这门课已经五十年了。

He said he'd been teaching this class for fifty years.

五零。

Five zero.

五零。对。他让我们写一篇作文，设想五年后如果我们能拥有完全理想的生活，会是什么样子。他要求我们从五年后某一天醒来的那一刻，一直写到晚上闭上眼睛睡觉的那一刻。尽管他是美国乃至世界上最著名的平面设计师之一，他却说这门课是他生命中最重要的事情。

Fifty zero. Yep. And he asked us to write an essay five years in the future if we could have exactly the life that we wanted. So he wanted us to write it from the moment we woke up on a day five years in the future till the moment we closed our eyes to go to sleep. Even though he was one of the most famous, if not the most famous graphic designer in The United States, maybe the world, he said that this class was the most important thing he was doing with his life.

哇。

Wow.

他还说，出于某种神秘的原因，这个练习改变了很多人的人生；他坚持做了这么久，几乎每周都有以前的学生写信告诉他：“一切都实现了。我不知道怎么做到的，但全都成真了。”所以我不仅写了一篇12页的作文，还列了一张清单，写下2010年我会做的20件事。然后，Mel，我就把它忘了。它被我写在一本记了很多其他笔记的日记里。

He also said for some mysterious reason, this was an exercise that changed people's lives, that he had been doing it for so long that virtually not a week went by when a former student wrote him and said, everything came true. I don't know how or why, but everything came true. So not only did I write a 12 page essay, I also made a list of 20 things that I would be doing in 2010. And then, Mel, I forgot about it. It was in a journal that I was keeping that I had a lot of other notes in.

大约一年后，我想回忆某个重要地址写在哪里，我觉得可能写在那本红色日记里。于是我翻回那本已经写完的红色日记，结果看到了那篇作文。我惊呼：“哇。”

And about a year later, I was trying to remember where I had written an address down of something that was important to me. And I was like, oh, I think I wrote it in that red journal. And I went back to my journals, and I took out the red journal, which I had finished. And I came across the essay. I was like, oh, wow.

因为我写下的所有内容，都是我渴望实现的。那些我热爱的事情，我正在做得更多，但还有很多。比如？比如在视觉艺术学院教书，比如成为美国平面设计协会的领导成员，写一本书，策划一场艺术展览。

Because everything that I had written, was aspiring to. Mhmm. The things that I was doing that I love doing, I was doing more of, but there were so many things. Like what? Like teaching at the School of Visual Arts, like being a member a a leader in the American Institute of Graphic Arts, writing a book, of curating an art exhibit.

到2006年2月，我已经开始在视觉艺术学院任教。我早忘了自己曾把这条写进清单。我拿到了第一本书的出版合同，还被邀请担任AIGA纽约分会的董事会成员。我惊叹：“哇。”

By 02/2006, I had started teaching at the School of Visual Arts. I had forgotten that I'd even put that on the list. I had gotten my first book deal. I had been invited to be a board member of the New York chapter of AIGA. And I was like, woah.

这是怎么发生的？因为我完全不记得自己写过这些，彻底抛到了脑后。Milton当时还要求我们把作文大声读给全班听，所以每个人都站起来分享。

How did that happen? Because I didn't remember that I had written any of that. I had completely put it out of my mind. Now one thing that Milton asked us to do was to read it out loud to the class. So everyone got up and shared.

我确实认为那种宣告非常重要。写下来然后藏起来是一回事；几乎承认“是的，这些就是我想要的”则是另一回事。

And I do think that that declaration was really, really important. It's one thing to write something and sort of hide it. Yep. It's another thing to almost admit Yes. That these are things that you want.

一旦你大声承认它，我觉得它就会以某种方式融入你自己的意图之中。

And once you admit it out loud, I think that there's a way that it somehow integrates into your own intentions

是的。

Yes.

这就是设计——你刻意做出的决定。所以你可以决定自己想怎样生活，可以决定你想爱谁。这些很大程度上取决于我们认为自己应得什么、配拥有什么，以及我们觉得自己是否有足够才华去实现。

Which is what design is. It's decisions that you make intentionally. So you can make a decision about how you wanna live. You can make a decision about who you want to love. These things are very much determined by what we believe we're entitled to, what we believe we're worthy of, and what we think we have enough talent to be able to achieve.

但其中很多是自我设定的，而且往往在我们还很年轻、甚至没意识到自己在做决定时就已定型，而这些决定随后会影响我们的一生。

But a lot of those are so self determined, and often they're determined at a very young age before we're really even conscious of making those decisions that then impact the rest of our lives.

这个练习如何改变了你的人生？嗯，它

How did this exercise change your life? Well, it

在方方面面都改变了我。它改变了我的工作方式、合作对象、做什么、怎么做。当时的情况是 Milton 不再教了，而我开始教。

changed my life in in every possible way. It changed how I work, who I work with, what I do, how I do it. So what happened was Milton stopped teaching. K. And I started teaching.

Milton 是视觉艺术学院的董事会成员。我也问他，既然他不再教这门课，我是否可以在我的课上用这个练习。但因为我的学生比那些想重塑职业的中层设计师年轻得多，我想给他们更长的跑道，让他们的生活有更多耐心去展开。

Milton's on the board of directors at the School of Visual Arts. I also asked him if it would be okay since he wasn't teaching it anymore to use that exercise in my classes. But because I was teaching much younger people than mid level designers looking to read with their life, I wanted to give them a bit more runway. I wanted to give them more of an opportunity to have their lives unfurl with a little bit more patience.

于是你把 Milton 在你四十多岁上这门课时带给你的、具有变革意义的练习拿来，加以改造，因为你想到很多学生才二十出头。是的。你能一步步带我们走一遍这个过程吗？当然可以。

So you took the exercise that was transformative to you that Milton had taught you when you were in your forties taking this class and you made it your own because you were thinking about the fact that a lot of your students are in their twenties. Yes. Can you walk us step by step through this process? Yes. Absolutely.

好的，太好了。因为此刻是我和这个在世界某处、愿意花时间

Okay. Great. Because it's me and this person somewhere around the world that's taking the time

倾听的人。我们怎么开始？嗯，开始的方法就是开始。好。你只需要决定：我要为自己开始，我会经历各种不同的情绪。

to listen. How do we start? Well, you start by starting. K. You just decide, I'm gonna start this for me and I'm going to experience a lot of different emotions.

它们并不都会令人愉快，但它们都是真实的情感。这些情感非常重要，需要被正视，因为有些人在做这类练习时会感到压力。他们感到压力的原因可能有很多。第一，他们可能觉得自己做不到。他们可能觉得自己不配。

Not all of them are going to be pleasant, but they're all real emotions. And those emotions are really important to look at because some people do have stress doing these types of exercises. They have stress for any number of reasons. One, because they might not think that they can achieve it. They might not think they're worthy.

他们可能对“想要”这件事充满恐惧。想要某样东西、真正渴望某样东西，并承认你想要某样东西，这意味着什么？

They might have a lot of fear about wanting things. What does it mean to want something, to really want something, and to admit that you want something?

你有一副超棒的牌，叫做“非凡人生牌”。

You've got this incredible deck of cards called the remarkable life deck.

这是一副我亲自创建的牌。我设计并撰写了所有问题。这副牌里包含说明书，还有一本小册子，如果你想的话可以写点东西。它共有30张牌，提供两种不同的练习方式。第一种是非常有指导性的，就像我喜欢的那样，问题非常清晰。

This is a deck of cards that I've I've created. I I designed and and wrote the the questions. It is a deck that includes instructions. It includes a little journal so that you can write in it if you want, and it includes 30 cards that have two different ways you can approach this exercise. The first is very prescriptive, the way I like things with very clear questions.

你如何定义幸福？你的职业目标是什么？你告诉自己做不到但其实可以做的事情是什么？我喜欢这种非常明确的问题。

How do you define happiness? What are your career goals? What are you telling yourself you can't do that you can? Those are the kinds of questions I like. Very clear.

但有些人可能更抽象一些，希望有更多自由，去走向他们未曾计划的方向。所以牌的另一面是提示语。想象无限可能，让不可能变为可能——这句也花了我好久才想出来。所以，如果你更喜欢抽象，它给你更多自由；如果你喜欢有步骤，它给你更多清晰指引。

But other people are maybe a little bit more abstract, want a little bit more freedom to go in lots of different directions that they aren't planning for. And so the other side of the cards are prompts. Imagine immensities, make the impossible possible, took a long time too. So it gives you a little bit more freedom if you prefer being more abstract, and it gives you a little bit more clarity if you like a protocol.

关于你，有一点我必须说：你坚持确保我们接下来要做的这个过程，不一定非得买这副牌才能完成。所以我想向你，教授，表达敬意，因为你提供了一个免费下载的资源。无论你是在看还是听，都可以去melrobins.com/designyourlife，米尔曼教授为你设计了一份可以免费下载的资料，它会作为我们讨论内容的对照伴侣。我要提前谢谢你。

And one thing I wanna say about you is that you were adamant that we made sure that the process that we're going to go through isn't something that you have to necessarily buy the deck of cards for. And so I wanna just acknowledge you professor for making a download available for free. So wherever you're watching this or you're listening, you can go to melrobins.com/designyour life and professor Millman has designed something for you that you can download that will act as a companion to everything that we're talking about for free. And so I wanna thank you upfront for that.

哦，不客气。当初我被邀请围绕这个练习做点什么时，我明确希望它是卡片的形式，这样人们可以像玩游戏一样使用。他们可以回答其中一些问题。

Oh, my pleasure. I I wanted when when I was asked to to create something around this exercise, I I was very specific about it at the time being cards Yeah. That people can play with. Yep. They can answer some of the questions.

他们可以回答全部问题，可以按任意顺序来，也可以按从盒子里抽出的顺序来。所以，让人们能够接触到这个练习，对我来说是最重要的事。

They can answer all of the questions. They can go in any order they want to, or they can go in the order that they came out of the box. And so for people to have this access to this exercise is the most important thing

那么一个快速的问题是：我们到底该怎样做这项练习？因为你知道，此刻正在听或看的人，可能跟我很像：米尔曼教授，我该怎么操作？告诉我具体步骤。

to me. So one quick question is how specifically should we do this exercise? Because you know, know the person that's with us right now listening or watching is probably a lot like I am. Like professor Millman, how do I do this Debbie? Tell me what to do.

我要把它写下来吗？我可以先听这段独步播客，然后再回来写吗？就像，在你带我们浏览提示和问题之前，实际的步骤到底是什么？

Am I writing it down? Can I listen to this podcast of a monowalk and then come back and write it down? Like, what's the actual steps before you walk us through the prompts and questions?

我建议你用任何你喜欢的方式写。K. 如果你喜欢在手机上写，就在手机上写。如果你想在iPad上写，也可以在iPad上写。如果你想用纸写，太棒了。

I would suggest that you write however you like to write. K. If you like to write on your phone, write it on your phone. If you wanna write it on your iPad, you can write it on your iPad. If you wanna write it on paper, awesome.

如果你想写在日记本里，也很美。只要你觉得舒服，这就是最重要的。没有规定必须怎么做。我会等待一个机会，或者为你安排一个机会，让你身处一个你觉得平静、自由、有属于自己的空间的地方，然后开始设想：如果你能拥有任何你想要的东西，并且你无所畏惧地追求梦想，你的生活会是什么样子。

If you wanna write it in a journal, beautiful. However you feel comfortable, that's the most important thing. There's no prescription to how it's done. And I would wait for an opportunity or carve out an opportunity for you to be in a place where you feel peaceful, where you feel free, where you'll have some space just for you, and then start to work on beginning to envision what your life could be like if you could have anything that you wanted and you were unafraid to pursue your dreams.

我喜欢这一点。所以，如果你此刻正在听或看，我邀请你把整个对话听完或看完，因为我了解你的工作，我知道仅仅体验这段对话本身就会打开某种东西，这样当你有时间坐下来写日记，或身处可以写下来的地方时，你已经迈出了第一步，真的准备好像温暖夏日里跳进冷水池一样投入其中。是的。那会非常不可思议。太棒了。

I love that. And so if you're listening or watching right now, I'm gonna invite you to just listen or watch this entire conversation because I know your work and I know simply experiencing the conversation right now will actually crack something open so that when you find time to sit with a journal or be in a place where you can write this stuff out, you're gonna have already taken the first step and be really ready to just jump into that cold pool on a warm summer day Yeah. And it's gonna be incredible. So awesome.

再说一遍，我让他们所有人写的第一句话是：现在是2035年10月29日。我睁开眼睛，我在哪里？我在做什么？我和谁在一起？我身边有人一起睡觉吗？

And again, the first sentence I asked them all to start with, it is 10/29/2035. I opened my eyes and Where are you? What are you doing? Who are you with? Are you sleeping next to someone?

你有宠物吗？你有孩子吗？你的床单是什么样的？你的卧室长什么样？你的一天从什么开始？

Do you have pets? Do you have children? What are your sheets like? What does your bedroom look like? What does your day start with?

你怎么锻炼？你有灵性练习吗？你吃什么？你去哪里上班？你有会议吗？

How do you exercise? Do you have a spiritual practice? What are you eating? Where do you go to work? Do you have meetings?

你需要什么样的钱？等等。你有自行车吗？你有车吗？你有滑板吗？

What kind of money do you need? And so on. Do you have a bicycle? Do you have a car? Do you have a skateboard?

任何你能想象到的、如果你无所畏惧、不用担心实现方式就能显化的东西，都可以写进去。这就是你十年后的生活。

Whatever it is that you imagine you could have if anything that you wanted could be manifested without fear, without worrying about the ways in which it could happen. Just this is your life ten years from now.

这就是开头的邀请。所以，无论今天的日期、你身处何地、你多大或多年轻，邀请就是从今天起穿越到十年后。是的。这就是我们开始设计你想要的生活的练习的方式。为什么十年是一个重要的时间框架，它能帮助你不去思考概率，而是去想象什么可能是可能的？

That's the opening invitation. So whatever date and wherever you are and however old or young you may be, the invitation is to time travel ahead ten years from today. Yep. And that is how we begin this exercise of designing the life that you want. Why is ten years an important time frame to help you not think about probability, but to imagine what might be possible?

这其实是在修改米尔顿最初设计的练习。他给了我们一个

This is really amending the original exercise that Milton created. He gave us a

五年的时间框架。我觉得那完全不现实，我也不希望大家觉得必须现实。这个练习让人焦虑的另一个原因是，人们总在想“现实吗”。我不要你想现实，我要你想“反现实”。

time frame of five years. I don't think that's realistic at all, and I don't want people to feel they have to be realistic. One of the other reasons that this can be distressing for people is that they are thinking about what is realistic. I don't want you to think about realistic. I want you to think the opposite of realistic.

人们还很容易被过程困住。这不是关于过程的练习，我甚至不让你想过程，我要你想结果。一旦开始琢磨“我怎么做”，就全毁了。

They also get very caught up in the process. This is not an exercise about process. I don't even want you to think about the process. I want you to think about the outcome. If you start thinking about how am I gonna do this, it defeats the whole purpose.

把它变成你的梦。这是我对生活的幻想——如果我想要什么就能得到什么。不意味着你真会得到一切，但肯定比现状多得多。

Make it your dream. This is my fantasy about what my life could be if I could get everything that I wanted. And it doesn't mean you're gonna get everything you want, but it's certainly gonna get you more than what you have.

没错。

That's true.

这一点我可以保证。

And that I can guarantee.

所以我们要往前想十年。我五十六岁，现在我要想象十年后，我六十六岁。你可能二十出头，现在在想三十岁的自己。

So we're gonna think ten years ahead. I'm fifty six years old. So I'm now going to think ten years ahead. I am 66 years old. You may be in your twenties, and now you're thinking about being in your thirties.

你可能还是青少年，现在在想二十多岁的自己；你可能三十多岁，在想四十多岁的自己。所以，这是邀请你往前跳十年，然后问自己下一个问题：

You may be a teenager, and now you're thinking about your twenties. You may be in your thirties. You're thinking about your forties. And so this is an invitation to go one decade ahead, ten years in your life, and then the next question you ask yourself is

十年后，你住在哪里？描述你的环境。

Ten years from now, where do you live? Describe your surroundings.

所以我醒来，我六十——我不敢相信我竟然六十六岁了。

So I'm waking up. I'm 60 I cannot believe I'm 66 years old.

哦，等你到了我这个年纪再说。那时你就七十多岁了。

Oh, wait until you're my age. Then you're in your seventies.

于是你想象自己老了十岁。你想象自己醒来、睁开眼睛，问自己的第一件事是：我住在哪里？

And so you think about yourself ten years older. And you imagine waking up and opening your eyes and the first thing that you ask yourself is where do you live?

你在哪儿？

Where are you?

对我来说，我看到的是大海。

Well, me, I see the ocean.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而我目前并不住在海边。

And I don't live near the ocean right now.

我觉得这就是提示。

Well, I think that's cue.

如果你第一眼看到的东西完全说不通，会发生什么？或者，人们睁开眼睛、想象十年后的自己时，会不会根本看不到自己住在哪里？嗯，一个

What happens if the thing that you immediately see makes no sense or you do people ever open their eyes and imagine themselves ten years from now and they can't see where they live? Well, one

我想问你的问题是：为什么它会说不通，梅尔？如果这是你在为自己设想的东西，这片大海，为什么它说不通？你已经在告诉自己，某件事也许不可能、不合理，在它还没成为可能、甚至还没开始合理之前。你已经谈起了过程。你已经说：我想先搞懂我为什么想要、怎样想要、又要如何得到，而不是先允许自己去想象身处那个环境。

question that I would ask you is why doesn't it make sense, Mel? If it's something that you're envisioning for yourself, this ocean, why doesn't it make sense? You're already telling yourself that something maybe isn't possible or doesn't compute before it's possible and before it could even maybe remotely compute. You've already said process. You've already said, I wanna understand why I want this or how I want this or how I'm gonna get it without just allowing yourself to envision being in that environment.

而正是这种想法让我们永远无法得到它，因为我们在想过程、在想概率、在想现实。

And that's what holds us back from ever getting that because we're thinking process. We're thinking probability. We're thinking realistic.

所以如果你问自己这个问题：十年后，我睁开眼睛，我住在哪里？你会有一个愿景——巴黎。

So if you ask yourself the question, it's ten years from now. I open my eyes. Where am I living? And you have a vision. Paris.

哦，我住在山里。哦，我住在滑雪小镇。哦，我住在海边。哦，我住在高层公寓的顶层豪宅。这房子太棒了。

Oh, I live on the mountains. Oh, I live in a ski to. Oh, I live in a beach. Oh, I live in a high rise, a penthouse. This is a spectacular home.

什么？是的。如果这听起来不合理，

What? Yeah. If it doesn't make sense,

你立刻就会想：呃，不行。流程、现实、概率。

you immediately go, uh-uh. Process, realism, probability.

但这个练习并不是关于流程、概率和现实。你教我们的练习是如何设计你真正想要的生活。对。这些问题帮助我们想象那些我们甚至没意识到随着时间推移可以触及的可能性。

But this exercise isn't about process, probability, and realism. The exercise you're teaching us is how to design the life you actually want. Right. And these questions help us imagine possibilities that we don't even realize are within our reach over time.

是的。或者我们可能希望它们触手可及，但我们没有——我猜人们会说——去实现的信心。但我真的认为信心不仅是个神话，而且把它当作实现目标的依靠也被严重高估了。

Yes. And or we might hope that they're within our reach, but we don't have what I guess people would say is confidence to go out and make it happen. But I really think that confidence is not only a myth, but it's really overrated in terms of being able to depend on it to help us make things

发生。黛比，我非常感激这次对话。我知道你身边爱你的人也会喜欢。我们稍作休息，听听我们优秀赞助商的寄语。休息期间我想让你做一件事。

happen. Debbie, I am so grateful for this conversation. And I know that the people in your life are going to love this too. We're gonna take a quick break so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And here's what I want you to do over the break.

把这一集发给某个对更大生活有梦想的人。某个你在乎、你想赋予力量、想激励的人，让他们拥有创造那种生活所需的工具。别忘了，黛比和我送你一本免费工作手册，她专门为你设计，带你一步步走过我们现在谈到的工具和流程，好让你设计一直想要的生活。你只需去看节目备注或访问 melrobbins.com/designyourlife，免费下载。请分享给所有人，因为每个人都值得设计自己热爱的生活，尤其是当他们还不知道想要什么的时候。

Send this episode to somebody who has a dream for a bigger life. Somebody that you care about and that you want to empower and inspire with the tools they need to create that life. And don't forget, Debbie and I are giving you a free workbook that she designed just for you that walks you through the step by step tools and process that we're talking about right now so you can design the life you've always wanted. You can just go to the show notes or go to melrobbins.com/designyourlife, Download it for free. And please share it with everybody because everybody deserves design a life that they love, particularly if they don't know what they want.

别走开，我们马上回来，黛比和我会等你。别换台。欢迎回来，我是你的朋友梅尔。今天你和我在向黛比·米尔曼教授学习如何采取行动、使用工具来创造你的梦想生活。

And stick with us because we'll be right back, and Debbie and I will be waiting for you after the break. Stay with me. Welcome back. It's your friend Mel. Today you and I are learning from Professor Debbie Millman all about taking the steps and using the tools to create your dream life.

那么，在设计你想要的生活的过程中，下一个你该问自己的问题是什么？你已经睁开眼睛，想象自己住在哪里，不需要合理，只管继续。我们接下来问自己什么问题？

So what is the next question you need to ask you should ask yourself in this process of designing the life that you want? You've now opened your eyes. You imagine where you live, it doesn't have to make sense, just keep going with it. What's the next question we ask ourselves?

你的家是什么样子的？

What does your home look like?

家。有意思。因为它其实有点现代，而且非常海滩风，我想。

Home. Interesting. Because it doesn't it it's somewhat modern and very beachy, I guess.

嗯，就像你

Well, just like where

现在住的地方。

I live now.

我能想象你在那样的环境里。你说的时候，我就觉得很有道理。

And I can envision you in that. Like, when you say it, it makes sense to me.

是啊。

Yeah.

感觉就像家。我挑出来的很多问题现在不一定按顺序，但它们都是我最喜欢的几个问题。你需要什么样的爱？

It feels like home. And a lot of the questions here that I pulled out aren't necessarily in order now, but they're just some of the questions that I love most. What kind of love do you need?

我需要持续的爱。一样。我需要狗到处跑。我需要有人把咖啡端到床上。我需要孙子孙女到处跑。

I need constant. Same. I need the dog running around. I need the coffee brought to me in bed. I need grandchildren running around everywhere.

正是如此。

Exactly.

持续的爱。这就是

Constant love. That's what

我需要。

I need.

嗯。你现在处于

Yep. Are you in

一段恋爱关系中吗？描述你最爱的人，他们是什么样，以及你为什么爱他们。描述你的身体自我。你的健康状况如何？你如何照顾自己？

a relationship? Describe who you love most, what they're like, and why you love them. Describe your physical self. How is your health? How do you take care of yourself?

我对另一边抱有希望，因为我希望自己保持健康。我希望我们都保持健康。这个问题有时会让人停顿。你如何占据空间？这是什么意思？

I have hope on the other side because I hope that I stay healthy. I hope we all stay healthy. This is one that sometimes gives people pause. How do you take up space? What does that mean?

这意味着，你是否允许自己完全在场？你是否试图让自己变小，以便别人可以存在？我认为很多人害怕占据空间，因为他们可能觉得自己无论是字面上还是比喻上都太大，觉得自己不知怎的超过了应有的程度，觉得自己太过分，想要的比应该的多。你有精神实践吗？如果有，它包括什么？

That means, do you allow yourself to be fully present? Do you try to make yourself smaller so other people can be present? I think that a lot of people are afraid of taking up space because they might feel like they're literally and figuratively too big, that they're somehow more than they should be, that they're too much, that they want more than they should. Do you have a spiritual practice? If so, what does that entail?

概述你与金钱的关系。你需要多少？你想要多少？你想用它做什么？十年后，你在什么方面已经掌握了精通？

Outline your relationship with money. How much do you need? How much do you want? What do you want to do with it? Ten years from now, what have you developed mastery of?

背面写着，这也花了很长时间，因为我认为掌握任何东西都需要很长时间。我认为，在今天科技速度如此之快的情况下，有一种期望是，你一大学毕业，就成为你想掌握的任何东西的大师，你被期望一出道就成功。我认为这令人心碎，因为这需要很长时间。做任何值得的事情都需要很长时间，因为你必须练习。

And on the back, it says it took a long time too because I think it takes a long time to gain mastery of anything. And I think that in today's speed of technology with today's speed of technology, there's an expectation that as soon as you graduate college, you are a master of whatever it is you wanna be a master of, that you are expected to be successful out of the gate. And I think that's heartbreaking because I think it takes a long time. It takes a long time to do anything worthwhile because you have to practice at it.

那个精通的问题真的很有趣。如果你不知道你想做什么怎么办？所以我在想，那些会把这个问题分享给20多岁的人，或者那些30多岁、已经在某个职业上花了一些时间的人，现在他们说，我不喜欢这个。我需要重塑自己。我需要改变。

That mastery question is really interesting. What if you don't know what you wanna do? So I'm thinking about the number of people that are gonna share this with 20 in their life or people in their thirties who have spent time doing a certain career and now they're like, I don't like this. I need to reinvent myself. I need to change.

如果当你问自己，问题是什么来着？你已经掌握了什么？如果

What if when you ask yourself what was the question again? What have you developed mastery of? What if

你不知道？很可能你心里藏着对某些东西的热爱。我不认识任何没有梦想的人。当我第一次写我的五年计划时，它后来变成了十二年计划，我开了很多会。我和画廊开过会。

you don't know? Chances are you are harboring some love of something. I don't know anybody that doesn't have dreams. What I did when I first wrote my five year plan, which turned into a twelve year plan, was have a lot of meetings. I had meetings with gallery.

我和出版商开了会。我和可能合作的公司开了会。我在做播客。我在写作。所以我今天非常忙。

I had meetings with a publisher. I had meetings with corporations that I might be working with. I was doing a podcast. I was writing. So I just had a very busy day.

那是你想象的样子。

That's what you imagined.

那就是我想象的样子。我一件事接一件事地赶。我约了午餐，约了晚餐，我度过了非常充实的一天，做了所有我想做的事。如果你想做很多事，那就去做。

And that's what I imagined. I was just going from thing to thing. I had a lunch date. I had a dinner date, and I just had a very full day of doing all the things that I wanted to do. Now if you wanna do a lot of things, do a lot of things.

我能告诉你的一件事是，当你做很多事时，掌握它们需要更长的时间，因为你必须大量练习才能精通。如果你像我一样一辈子做五到十件不同的事，那我在四十、五十、现在六十岁才把它们做好就不足为奇了。我是否希望自己曾把更多时间花在其中的某一件、两件或三件事上？不。因为我喜欢充实的生活，我仍然热爱学习新事物。

The one thing that I can tell you is when you do a lot of things, it takes a longer time to develop mastery of those things Because you don't develop mastery until you practice a lot. If you're doing five or 10 different things like I've always done my whole life, it's not a surprise that I didn't get good at them until I was in my forties, fifties, and now my sixties. Do I wish that I had spent more time doing any of those one or two or three things? No. Because I like a full life and I like I still love learning new things.

所以，如果我当初只做一两件事，我觉得那会以对我并不健康的方式限制我的创造力。当然也有人会说，我就想干这个，我想当职业运动员，我想当滑冰选手，我想当老师。

And so if I was only doing one or two things, I think I'd have limited my own creativity in ways that wouldn't have been healthy for me. Now there are some people that are like, I want to do that. I wanna be a professional athlete. I wanna be an ice skater. I wanna be a teacher.

我想当医生。那就专注做那一件事。但如果你还不知道那一件事是什么，就去尝试尽可能多的东西。

I wanna be a doctor. Then focus on that one thing. But if you don't know what that one thing is, play with as many things as

你觉得我们很多人被困住，是因为我们不清楚自己想要什么吗？

you want to. Do you think a lot of us get stuck because we're not clear what we want?

嗯，我不确定是不是不清楚，而是我们害怕让自己去想象宏大的可能。我们害怕去渴望，因为担心如果渴望了却没得到，就等于失败或会蒙羞。我曾问一个学生，如果你没得到想要的东西，最坏会怎样？他说，我会心碎而死。

Well, I don't know if it's that we're not clear. It's that we're afraid to allow ourselves to imagine immensities. We're afraid to want things because we're afraid that if we want things and we don't get them, that we are failing or that we'll be humiliated. I once asked a student, well, what what would be the worst thing that happened if you didn't get this thing that you wanted? And he said, I would die of heartbreak.

我说，不，你不会。你会消化那份心碎，并明白它教给了你什么。人们常常在还没尝试可能之前，就先判定什么是不可能的。

And I said, no. No. You won't. You'll metabolize that heartbreak, and you'll be able to understand what it taught you. People determine what is impossible before they even try what is possible.

再多说说这个。能给我个例子吗？

Say more about that. Can you give me an example?

你想成为大写的“艺术家”。你觉得自己不会成功，觉得没人会欣赏你的作品，觉得靠它养活不了自己。于是，你就不去追了。

You wanna be an artist with a capital a. You don't think you could be successful at it. You don't think that anyone will appreciate your work. You don't think that you'll be able to make a living at it. Therefore, you don't pursue it.

这就是在盯着“不可能”——觉得它对我来说不可能。可这一切都是你自己定的。你没验证过，没试过，只是凭自我价值感、觉得自己配得什么、人生能怎样，就下了结论。

And that's looking at what the impossible it is impossible for me. But it's all self determined. There's no you haven't tested it. You haven't tried it. You've just assumed it because of your own feelings of self worth or what you're entitled to or what your life can be.

于是你决定：我不干这个，因为我觉得我不会成功。你在还没开始之前，就给自己判了“不可能”。太多人这样。我既教本科生也教研究生，21 岁的孩子就已经认定某件事这辈子不可能，这让我心碎。

So you're determining, I'm not gonna do this because I don't think I'm going to be successful at it. And therefore, you are determining what is impossible before you even try. And so many people do that. I teach both undergraduate students and graduate students. And 21 year olds are already deciding that something is not possible for their lives, and that breaks my heart.

因为我自己也经历过同样的情绪、同样的感受，所以我尽力帮他们走出来，别仅仅因为“觉得自己不够好”就认定某件事不可能。

And because I experience that exact same emotion and that same feeling, I try to help them move through feeling that something isn't possible just because they don't think that they're good enough.

哇。下一个问题是什么？

Wow. What's the next question?

如果注定不会失败，你会做哪五件事？

What are five things you would do if you knew you would not fail?

所以是十年以后——嗯——五件事，是你“将会做”的，还是“已经做”的？怎么理解？

So ten years from now Mhmm. What are five things is it that you would do or that you've done? Like, how

随便怎么想。如果注定不会失败，你会做哪五件事？如果你现在就在做，多半是你觉得自己不会失败；如果还只是未来的念头，那多半就会写进这份清单。

do you do this? Just anything. What are five things you would do if you knew you would not fail? If you're doing them now, chances are you probably think you're not gonna fail. If you have things as future ideas, chances are you would put those on the list.

我给你几个答案吧。刚才你问我想精通什么，我就想到：如果不会失败，我会做哪五件事？第一件——我都笑自己了，好像大家要把话说出口时都会有点不好意思，我也不知道为啥要笑——我真的想写一部长篇奇幻小说。

Well, I'll give you a couple answers because as you asked me about the things that I wanna master, what are five things I would do that I wouldn't fail? Well, one is and I'm even laughing at myself. Like I would imagine that that's kind of a normal response that you feel almost embarrassed that you're about say this out loud. And I don't know why I am laughing at myself. But one of them is I really want to write a fantasy novel.

听起来挺傻，可我不知道为什么。为什么觉得傻？我也不明白。

Like, it seems stupid, but I but I don't know why. Why does it seem stupid? Why don't know?

但你已经在活在一个幻想里了，为什么不想写一本奇幻书呢？

But you're already living a fantasy. Why wouldn't you wanna write a fantasy book?

我知道。我觉得，我猜这里面有点东西，比如，也许它不会那么好。

Know. I like, I guess there's something in it, like, maybe it wouldn't be that good.

也许这就是过程，概率，现实。

Maybe that's the Process, probability, realistic.

是的。我其实是在贬低什么是可能的。你的学生对这个问题的回答有哪些？你能再读一遍

Yes. I'm actually trashing what's possible. What are some of the things that your students say in response to that question? Will you read the

问题吗？如果你知道自己不会失败，你会做哪五件事？

question again? What are five things you would do if you knew you would not fail?

那我们按十年一个阶段来看吧，因为你一直在把这个过程教给各个年龄段的人。二十多岁的人通常会怎么说？一份好工作。

So let's kinda take it by decades since you've been teaching this process Mhmm. To people of all ages. What do people in their twenties tend to say? A good job.

一份好工作？一份好工作。他们想要一份让自己感到自豪的工作。他们想要一份理想的工作，我鼓励他们去追求自己想要的。第一份工作真的可以让你走上一条现实主义或可能性的道路。

A good job? A good job. They want a job that they feel proud of. They want a dream job and I encourage them to go after what they want. That first job can really set you up for a path of either realism or possibility.

很多时候，他们会接受第一份到手的工作，不是因为他们想要那份工作，而是因为得到一份工作让他们有安全感。我并不是建议他们拒绝工作，但我确实建议他们可以继续寻找一份能让他们内心和灵魂充满更多喜悦的工作，而不是仅仅因为必须还学生贷款就接受一份工作。

And so often, they'll take the very first job that comes their way, not because they want that job, but because they have security in getting a job. And I'm not suggesting that they turn a job down, but I am suggesting that they could keep looking for something that does fill their heart and soul with more joy than what they might be taking because they have to pay their student loan back.

对。所以你先接受这份工作，但继续寻找。

Right. And so you take the job, but you keep looking.

不仅要继续寻找，还要持续创作。你知道，我的学生都是很有创造力的人，所以他们常常发现自己在为某人工作，所做的作品可能并不是他们心目中的作品集素材，也不是他们愿意展示给别人的东西。但尤其是年轻人，没有什么能阻止他们去创造任何他们想创造的东西，并发布到任何他们想发布的地方。在人类历史上，从未有过一个时代，人们可以如此自由地向无数人分享他们的梦想、希望和创造力。这是一件非凡的事情。

Not only do you keep looking, but you keep making things. You know, my students are very creative people and so they often find that they're working for somebody that the work that they're doing might not be what they would consider portfolio material, something that they'd wanna show other people. There's nothing stopping young people especially from creating whatever they wanna create and posting it wherever they wanna post it. There's never been a time in our history as a species where people could share their dreams, their hopes, their creativity with as many people as they want to. That's an extraordinary thing.

所以我鼓励我所有的学生进行一个一百天的项目，他们必须在一百天里每天都创作一些东西。这让他们积累出一批作品，之后可以随心所欲地发挥，没有限制，没有客户，也不用担心无法取悦他人。同时，这也能让他们看清自己关于“完成”这件事的内心独白：仅仅因为没心情做，并不意味着你就能拿到“不做”的通行证。对你来说，什么更重要？

And so I encourage all of my students undertake a one hundred day project wherein they have to make something every single day for one hundred days. And that gives them a body of work that they can then make as they wish without parameters, without a client, without worrying that they're not gonna satisfy someone. But it also allows them to understand some of what they tell themselves about finishing something. Just because you're not in the mood to do something doesn't mean you have a permission slip to not do it. What matters more to you?

是完成这项任务、履行你对自己的个人承诺、对自己的责任感，还是去看《熊家餐馆》的新一季？

Completing this assignment, fulfilling your own personal obligation, your accountability to yourself, or watching the new season of the bear.

下一个问题是什么？

What's the next question?

你告诉自己做不到、但其实你能做到的事情是什么？

What are you telling yourself you can't do that you can?

大家通常怎么回答这个问题？

How do people answer that one?

天哪！通常伴随着令人窒息的自我破坏——他们告诉自己永远遇不到理想伴侣；告诉自己永远买不到面朝大海的房子；告诉自己永远创不了业。这些都是盘旋不去的限制，让我们干脆不去尝试。

Oh my god. Usually, with breathtaking self sabotage, they tell themselves that they aren't, ever gonna meet the person of their dreams. They tell themselves that they're never gonna get the house with the with the ocean. They tell themselves that they never can have their own business. This is all of the circling restrictions that keep us from actually trying.

这些依旧关乎概率、现实和过程。在你真正尝试之前，你根本不知道自己能不能做到。仅仅因为害怕，并不意味着你就能拿到“不做”的通行证。当你害怕某件事时，你必须做出选择：你对这件事成真的希望，是大于恐惧，还是恐惧压倒了希望？

These are the things that are all about, again, the probability, the realism, and the process. You don't know that you can't do something until you try to do it. And just because you're afraid doesn't mean that, again, that gives you a permission slip to not do it. When you're afraid of something, you have to decide. Do I have more hope for this possibility happening than I do fear, or do I have more fear than I have hope?

这是至关重要的问题。如果你一直在退缩，那就说明你更相信恐惧，而不是希望。于是你就得认真审视：为什么我这么害怕它失败？可要是它成功了呢？

That's a really important question. If you're holding yourself back, it means that you have more faith in the fear than you do in your hope. And then you have to really examine why. Why am I so afraid of it not working out? What if it does?

我鼓励我的学生们——他们都还年轻——我告诉他们：你们永远不会比现在更年轻，永远不会比现在更美丽。这句话我几乎可以对任何人说：你永远不会比现在更年轻，永远不会比现在更美丽。

And I encourage my students who are all young, and I tell them you're never gonna be younger. You're never gonna be more beautiful than you are right now. And I can say that about pretty much anybody. You're never gonna be younger. You're never gonna be more beautiful.

你还在等什么？

What are you waiting for?

等着恐惧消失，可它就是不消失——那就直接上吧。对。下一个问题是什么？

Waiting for the fear to go away, but it doesn't That's actually do it. Yeah. What's the next question?

你如何定义幸福？你如何定义幸福？这个问题我想了很久。我什么时候最快乐？梅尔，我最快乐的时候是在创作东西的时候。

How do you define happiness? How do you define happiness? I thought about this one a lot. When when am I happiest? And Mel, I'm I'm happiest when I'm making things.

那就是我最快乐的时候。做这些卡片，画它们、写它们，给了我巨大的快乐。写我最近这本书时——它是本视觉书，我边画边写，是我写给一座花园的情书——做那件事的时候，我意识到我可以这样过一辈子。那就是幸福。

That's when I'm happiest. Making these cards, drawing them, writing them gave me a great deal of joy. Writing my most recent book, it's a visual book, so I drew and wrote at the same time, my love letter to a garden. When I was doing that, I realized I could do this for the rest of my life. That's happiness.

幸福就是和我妻子在一起。和她在一起时，我感到极大的平静与满足。赛斯·戈丁是我另一位挚友兼导师，他说幸福就是满足。幸福不是去找“快乐”；快乐就在当下，你满足了，就快乐了。

Happiness is being with my wife. I feel an enormous amount of peace and contentment when I'm with her. You know, Seth Godin is another dear friend of mine and my other mentor, and he talks about happiness as contentment. Happiness isn't searching for happy. Happy is in the moment and you're content.

没有什么能让你快乐。如果你对所拥有的一切感到满足，那就是幸福。

Nothing's going to make you happy. If you are content with what you have, that's happiness.

我同意。我也会这么回答：就是我活在当下，这一刻，我对自己正在做的事感到满意。

I agree. That's how I would have answered it. Like, just I'm present. I'm in the moment. There's something about what I'm doing that I'm satisfied with.

并不是那种……创作是一个空间，当我做东西、和克里斯一起混的时候，感觉都一样。我觉得——

It's not some like and creating is a space when I'm making something, when I'm hanging out with Chris. It's all the same. I I think a

很多人都有同样的感受。真的。很少有人写十年计划时会写“我要找到治愈癌症的方法”“我要上火星”。那些，我不知道有没有出现过。

lot of have the same thing. It's true. Very few people write their ten year plan and write on it, I'm going to find the cure for cancer. I am going to go to Mars. Those, I don't know that they've ever come up.

大家总是在问：我怎样才能创造、构建一种有意义、内心满足的生活？

It's always about how can I create, create, construct a life of meaning, being content?

当你问这个问题——时空穿越到十年后，醒来发现自己老了十岁，你住在哪里？想象你的一天：从睁眼那一刻起，床单的感觉、房间的样子、你在做什么、谁在身边、你看到什么、你如何支配时间。一路想到你吃的饭、见的人、时间的流逝、入睡的地方、整天的感受。当我这样可视化时，它简单得令人心疼。真的。

When you ask the question, time travel ten years, wake up and you're ten years older, where do you live? Imagine your day from the moment your eyes open, the way that the sheets feel, the room that you're in, what you're doing, who is there, what you see, what you do with your time. Imagine it all the way through to the meals that you eat, the people that you see, the way that you spend your time, where you fall asleep, how the whole thing feels. When I visualize that, it's painfully simple. It really is.

是啊。今天天气真好。我被家人包围着。还有爱。对，还有爱。

Yeah. It's a beautiful day. I'm surrounded by family. And love. Yeah, and love.

我看到几个亲密的朋友。我在户外。对，在大自然里。我正在做点什么。对。

I see a couple close friends. I'm outside Yeah. In nature. I'm I'm working on something. Yeah.

那本我感兴趣创作的奇幻小说。对。我所做的事情并不复杂，但我很满足。

That fantasy novel that I'm interested in creating. Yeah. There's not a whole lot of complexity to what I'm doing but I'm content.

你感受到一种在家的平静。一种认同，这就是我。

You feel a sense of peace at home. Recognition, this is me.

Debbie，我非常感激这次对话，感激你带给我的清晰、灵感和鼓励，也感激你带给听众的这些。让我们听听赞助商的寄语。花点时间，把这段分享给生活中的每一个人。也许他们正站在十字路口。也许他们不知道下一步想做什么。

Debbie, I am so grateful for this conversation and for the clarity and the inspiration and the encouragement that you are bringing to me and to the person listening. Let's hear a word from our sponsors. Take a moment, share this with everybody in your life. Maybe they're at a crossroads. Maybe they don't know what they want to do next.

也许他们真的感到困顿。这是你可以免费送出的一份礼物，能帮助他们重回正轨，看到人生更大的愿景。好了。别走开，因为我马上带着更多来自Debbie Millman教授的内容回来。跟我一起。

Maybe they're feeling really stuck. This is a gift for free that you can give to them that will help them get back on track and see a bigger vision for their life. Alrighty. And stick with us because I'll be right back with more from Professor Debbie Millman. Stay with me.

欢迎回来。我是你的朋友Mel。今天，你和我都在向Debbie Millman教授学习，关于采取步骤和使用工具来创造你梦想中的人生。在我们深入之前，我想告诉你，Debbie Millman教授和我共同制作了一份独家的免费工作手册，帮助你设计自己的人生。在melrobbins.com/designyourlife获取，或者在节目注释里找，或者在YouTube本集描述里找。

Welcome back. It's your friend Mel. And today, you and I are learning from Professor Debbie Millman all about taking the steps and using the tools to create your dream life. Before we jump in, I want to let you know that Professor Debbie Millman and I have created an exclusive free workbook to help you design your life. Get it at melrobbins.com/designyourlife or write in the show notes or in the description in YouTube that goes with this episode.

所以当你和二十多岁、三十多岁、四十多岁、五十多岁、六十多岁的人做这项练习时，你会看到不同年代的人在想象上有什么差异吗？会的。当你教二十多岁的人时，他们展望未来十年，想象的大主题是什么？通常，二十多岁会包括工作、恋爱、

So when you do this exercise with people in their twenties or thirties or forties or fifties or sixties, do you see a difference based on decades in terms of what people visualize? Yes. What do you see when people when you're teaching this to 20 year olds, what are the big themes that people imagine when they look ahead ten years? Usually, the twenties include job, relationship,

公寓、房子。好。三十多岁很多关于家庭、孩子、在专业领域达到精通。四十多岁，人们开始想要创造更多，产出更多，拥有更多时间，拥有更多平衡。他们开始更多考虑健康。

apartment, home. K. Thirties is a lot about family, children, mastery of a professional discipline. Forties, people start to want to create more, to make more, to have more time, to have more balance. They start thinking about their health more.

他们开始考虑身体健康，以及随着年龄增长自己会是什么样子。金钱贯穿始终。没有哪个年代的人不写金钱。也没有哪个年代的人不写宠物。这不是很有趣吗？

They start thinking about physical fitness and what they're going to be like as they get older. Money is all the way across. There's not a decade that people don't write about money. There's also not a decade that people don't write about pets. Isn't that interesting?

嗯，这就是爱。

Well, it's love.

是的。无条件的爱。对。五六十岁时，更多关乎时间。我要如何利用我所拥有的这段时间？

Yeah. Unconditional love. Yeah. Fifties and sixties, it's more about time. How am I going to use this time that I have?

我要如何创造更多意义？我的遗产是什么？我能留给家人、孩子什么？有时是关于第二居所。

How am I going to create more meaning? What is my legacy? What am I leaving my family, my children? Sometimes it's about a second home.

如果现在有人在听，他们可能会想，好吧，这听起来很棒。我确实想设计自己想要的生活。我确实想栖居于可能性之中，但这听起来像是属于有钱、有特权的人，我没有这种奢侈。提前十年旅行、想象自己身处不同地方，究竟如何帮助你应对此刻非常真实的困境与卡住的感觉？

If somebody's listening right now and they're like, okay, well, this sounds incredible. I do wanna design a life that I want. I do wanna dwell in possibility, but that kinda sounds like for people with like money, privilege, like I don't have the luxury of that. How does traveling ten years ahead and imagining yourself in a different place actually help you address the very real problems and stuckness you may feel right now?

我不确定这真的关乎奢侈，而更多是关乎许可。是的，如果你能想象一种自由的生活，那背后就假设你可以自由。

I don't know that it's really about luxury as much as it is about permission. And, yes, if you are able to imagine a life of freedom, there's an assumption there that you can be free.

我们得强调这一点。我想把这一点放大。如果你能设计一种让你更自由的生活，那就意味着你相信这种可能性。这会立刻改变你，因为那成为锚点，给你希望。是的。

We gotta highlight that. I wanna just take that high. If you can design a life that makes you feel more freedom, it means that there is a belief in that assumption that it's possible. That that changes you now because that's what anchors and gives you hope. Yes.

看见更光明的未来能帮你在当下站稳脚跟，让你更有能力、更有韧性去穿越此刻的困境，因为你知道未来会有东西在等你。

Seeing a brighter future helps you shore yourself up now, and that makes you better equipped and more resilient to move through where you're at now knowing that there's something coming in the future.

是的。如果我们都有幸拥有自由，那就让我们更刻意地使用这份自由。我正在和一个组织合作，要去和服刑人员一起想象他们的人生可以怎样。这让我深刻意识到，当我们拥有自由时，我们多么有特权，要非常认真地对待它。我认为希望是人类最非凡的东西之一。

Yes. And if we are all privileged enough to be free, then let's be more intentional with that freedom. I'm actually working with an organization where I'm going to go and work with incarcerated people to imagine what their lives can be. And that really showed me how privileged our how privileged we are when we have our freedom and to take it very very seriously. I think that hope is one of the most extraordinary things humans have.

当我们失去希望，我们就失去了生命，失去了灵魂。即使你无法拥有我们这种自由，也仍有希望去创造意义。我非常好奇，那些可能不享有我们这种自由的人，对自己仍能创造和期待什么有何感受。能见证他们如何做到这一点，对我来说将是极大的荣幸。

When we lose hope, we lose our lives. We lose our spirit. And even if you don't have the kind of freedom that we have, there is still hope at creating meaning. And I'm very curious to see what people that might not have the same type of freedom that we enjoy feel about what they can still make and hope for in their lives. And that will be a great privilege to me to be able to see how people do that.

在你教授的学生和练习者中，当他们尝试设计自己想要的生活时，你看到的常见错误有哪些？大多数人被困在流程里。好。

What are some of the common mistakes that you see your students and the people that you've taught this exercise to making when they try to design the life that they want? Most people get caught up in the process. K.

我怎么敢以为自己能在没有这种教育、这种金钱、这种自信、这种伴侣、这种身材的情况下做成这件事？于是他们开始限制可能性，因为他们无法想象拥有这些东西。再者，他们会以为自己想要某样东西，是因为他们在拿自己的生活和别人比较。我觉得这和社交媒体有很大关系。如果那个人在做这件事，我也应该做。

How how dare I think I can do this without this type of education or this type of money or this type of confidence or this type of partner or this type of body? And they begin to curtail the possibilities because they can't envision having these things. Again, they will think that they want something because they're comparing their lives to others. And I think that's a a lot to do with social media. That if this person is doing this, I should be doing it too.

他们可能甚至并不是真的想做，只是觉得自己应该做。想着家人对你的期望。尤其是我有很多外国学生。在某些亚洲文化里，父母对孩子的期望，或者孩子所做的事，是对家庭、对长辈、对父母的尊重。他们真的很挣扎：我到底欠家人多少，又欠自己多少。

And they might not even really want to do it, but they think that they should. Thinking what your family expects of you. And if you especially, I have a lot of foreign students. And in certain Asian cultures, what the parents want for the children or what the children do and that is respect for the family and for elders and for parents. And they really struggle with how much do I owe my family versus how much do I owe myself.

那么平衡点在哪里？我作为一个人，可能把忠诚或尊敬长辈和家庭当作价值观，但它却迎面撞上——也许我不想要孩子。

So what is the balance between I may have a value as a person of kind of being loyal or respectful to elders and my family and yet it's coming right up against like maybe I don't want kids.

嗯。

Mhmm.

也许我不想住在家人所在的镇上。是啊。也许我是同性恋。也许我是同性恋。也许，你知道，不管怎样。

Maybe I don't wanna live in the town where my family is. Yeah. Maybe I'm gay. Maybe I'm gay. Maybe, you know, whatever.

我不想从事他们想让我做的职业。是啊。

I don't wanna do the profession that they want me to do. Yeah.

我觉得这个练习最有力的一点就是宣言。我在课堂上做这些时，学生有一周时间完成练习。他们下周回来，我们要分享。这对大家来说很可怕。

I think one of the most powerful things about this exercise is the declaration. So when I do these in my class, when the students have completed, they have a week to do the exercise. They come back the next week, and we share them. And that's terrifying to people.

你说的分享，是指大声读出来吗？

And by share them, you mean read it out loud?

大声读出来。米尔顿当年就是这样要求我们。我们必须大声读。有些人很兴奋，他们冲到教室前面，准备分享。

Read them out loud. That's what Milton did with us. We had to read it out loud. Some people are really excited. They, like, charge up to the front of the room, and they're, like, ready to share.

而另一些人非常害怕，手发抖，不敢向大家承认，不敢分享自己的渴望、需求、希望和梦想。当人们听到别人分享梦想、希望和对未来的想法时，会获得力量。和别人一起做这项练习很棒，因为你可以分享，最爱你的那些人也能鼓励你走得更远。于是课堂上就会发生：突然大家听到别人在想象宏大的未来。你知道，我最喜欢的一张卡片就是这张——想象宏大。

And then other people are super scared and very shaky and afraid to admit this to folks, afraid to share their desires, their needs, their hopes, their dreams. And when people hear other people share their dreams and hopes and ideas about their future, it empowers them. This is a wonderful exercise to do with other people because you can share and also the people that love you most can also encourage you to go further. And so what happens in the classroom is suddenly people hear other people imagining immensities. You know, one of my favorite favorite cards is is this one, imagine immensities.

帮你做到这一点的问题是什么？在这个例子中，就是：你的职业目标是什么？你的职位名称是什么？你怎么去上班？你会因公出差吗？

What's the question that helps you do that? Well, in this case, it's this is what are your career goals? What is your job title? How do you get to work? Do you travel for your job?

你和多少人一起工作？你工作中最棒的部分是什么？但这里的“想象无限”是在考虑这一切。想象无限。当人们听到别人分享时，没有人会回应说，真的吗？

How many people do you work with? What is the best part of your job? But this Imagine Immensities is in consideration of everything here. Imagine immensities. And when people hear other people, nobody responds with, really?

你怎么会觉得自己能做到？更多人会哭，是因为他们听到有人分享并宣告时太激动了。我觉得这一部分让人们能再往前走一点。所以在第一周结束后，当我们分享时，我会让大家再回去一次，补充任何你可能遗漏的内容。

How do you ever think you can do that? It's more people cry because they're so thrilled at hearing somebody share and declare. And that part of this, I think, is allows people to go a little bit further. So after that first week and when and when we share, I ask people to go back one time and add anything you think you might have missed.

哦。所以在你读完之后，还可以再补充？那是我加的部分，不是 Milton。我喜欢这个。我们可以“超大杯”我们的

Oh. So after you read it, you get to add more? And that's something I did, not Milton. I love that. We get to supersize our

当你听到别人能如何扩展他们的可能性、扩展他们对生活的想法时，如果你一直被流程、概率或现实主义所束缚，这就会打开一扇门。他们看到别人，这就是一种最好的比较方式：天啊，这个人给了我许可，让我对自己期待更多、希望更多、实现更多。然后他们就这么做了，然后就成了。就成了。

When own you hear how much other people can expand their possibilities, expand their ideas about their lives, if you have been consumed with process or probability or realism, opens up a door. They see that somebody else and that's kind of comparison in the best possible way where, oh my god, this person is giving me permission to expect a little bit more from myself, hope for a little bit more from myself, manifest a little bit more from myself. And then they do that, and then it's done. And then it's done.

你知道吗，我想分享一下，因为你们正在听，Bell Robins 播客完全是把一句话当成可能性而诞生的。这个“想象无限”的概念，我真的会对 Tracy——执行制片人和我的商业伙伴 Christina——说：你能想象吗？如果有一个播客，我们在波士顿做。波士顿可以说是全球高等教育之都。

You know, I just wanna share this because for you as you're listening, the Bell Robins podcast was completely born out of speaking it as a possibility. This notion, I'm realizing what would imagine immensities. I literally would turn to Tracy who's the executive producer and my business partner, Christina, go, could you imagine? Like, if there was a podcast and we had it in Boston. Boston is like the home of higher education globally.

想想这里的大学做的所有研究，大波士顿地区有大约五十二所两年制、职校、学院和大学。有那么多实验室、生物科技公司、研究，以及全球第一的研究型医院。想象一下，如果有一个播客，感觉就像和朋友散步。不是科学家在对谈。

Think about all of the research done here in the universities, like fifty two second like two year schools and trade schools and colleges and universities in the greater Boston area. There's all these labs and biotech and research and number one research hospitals in the world. Like, imagine if there was a podcast. It felt like a walk with a friend. It wasn't like scientists talking to each other.

而是像朋友聊天，但我们邀请这些世界级专家、思想家、研究者顺道来我们的工作室，然后我们可以免费分享给全世界。那不是很酷吗？就这么开始了。是啊。很多人会说，呃，波士顿没有播客。

It was like friends talking, but we were inviting these world class experts and thinkers and researchers to just hop on over to our studios and then we get to share this for free with the world. Wouldn't that be cool? That's how it began. Yeah. And a lot of you are like, well, are no podcasts in Boston.

好像大型节目都在奥斯汀、洛杉矶和纽约。

Like, it's really Austin and LA and New York where the big shows are.

难道你不喜欢去证明你可以做任何想做的事吗？

Don't you love to prove that you can do whatever you wanna do?

嗯，你知道，我我我认为这是一个重要的提醒，因为尤其是如果你是新听众，而且你发现它是世界上最成功的播客之一，你不会意识到它像所有事情一样始于一个“如果想象一下”。如果想象一下。而如果你不向这个问题敞开心扉，不给自己停留在可能性中的许可。

Well, you know, I I I think that it's an important note because especially if you're a new listener and you're discovering it because it's one of the most successful podcasts in the world, you don't realize that it began like everything with a imagine if. Imagine if. And without opening up your mind to that question and without giving yourself permission to dwell in possibility.

喜欢这句话。停留在可能性中。太美了。永远不会是。我喜欢。

Love that. Dwell in possibility. That's beautiful. It will never be. I love that.

它只是一个被压抑的愿望或渴望。

It's just it's just a want or a desire that you're keeping trapped.

嗯。

Yeah.

它就在那儿，所以我这么说只是因为如果不让那种可能性存在，哪怕只是朋友间的一个想法。

And it's in there and so I only say that just because without allowing that possibility to exist even as just an idea among friends.

嗯。

Yeah.

你就不可能做出任何改变。嗯，我觉得人们有时在等待机会，而不是创造机会。多说说这个。等待机会和成为能创造机会的人之间有什么区别？当你等待机会时，你是在被动地等事情发生

There is no change that you're gonna make. Well, I think people sometimes wait for opportunity as opposed to creating opportunity and Say more about that. What's the difference between waiting for opportunity versus just becoming the kind of person that can create opportunity? When you're waiting for opportunity, you are passively waiting for things to come your way

并希望事情会降临到我身上。我希望这件事会发生。我祈祷那件事会发生。我极度渴望它发生。但你也可以从另一个角度看。

and hoping that things will come my way. I'm hoping that this will happen. I'm praying for that to happen. I'm desperate for that to happen. But you can also look at it from another perspective.

我太想要这个了。我要为自己创造这个机会，努力去实现它。虽然没有保证。但如果你去尝试，你实现它的机会就比干等要多。

I want this so much. I'm going to create this opportunity for me to try to make it happen. Now there's no guarantee ever. But if you try, you have more chances of being able to manifest that than if you were waiting.

确实。我们播客的一群制作人尝试了这个练习，他们中的很多人，尤其是二十五六岁以上的制作人，发现连问自己这个问题都压力巨大：想象一下醒来时你老了十岁，你的生活是什么样子、什么感觉？你住在哪里？你看到什么？感觉如何？

It's true. A bunch of our producers on the podcast tried the exercise and a lot of them, especially the producers who are in their mid to late twenties, found it extremely stressful to even ask themselves the question, imagine waking up and you're ten years older, what does your life look and feel like? Where do you live? What do you see? What does it feel like?

你为什么觉得想象理想未来会如此有压力？

Why do you think it's so stressful to imagine your ideal future?

我觉得现在对二十多岁的人来说尤其有压力，因为世界太不确定了。在当今这个我们不断被成功的表演性方面轰炸的世界里，成功被包装得看起来毫不费力、触手可及，这让人心碎，因为我几乎没见过谁轻轻松松就成功了。除了天才，大多数人都要非常努力才能得到真正想要的东西。是的。

I think it's particularly stressful now for people in their twenties because the world is so uncertain. And it's very hard in today's world where we are constantly being bombarded with the performative aspects of success, where success is made to look effortless and easily attainable. And that breaks my heart because I know very few people that have become successful easily. There's always the prodigy, but most people have to work really hard to get what they really want. Yeah.

而且为了获得工作本身，就得付出同样多的努力。

And it takes as much work to get the work.

这确实很多。你怎么穿透这些，找到那个可能性的空间？因为你的梦想还在。你几乎是在说，眼前的巨大压力、 overwhelm、不确定性和选项让你更加质疑可能性。

That's a lot. How do you cut through that and find that space of possibility? Because your stream your dreams are still there. It's almost like what you're saying is the acute amount of pressure and overwhelm and uncertainty and options that are before you make you question the possibility even more.

是的，绝对如此。这时你就得加倍坚持你认为可以在人生中创造的东西。我故意用“创造”这个词，因为你就是一边走一边编。这是一个机会，让你允许自己假设你可以拥有一种满足与平静的生活。

Yeah. Absolutely. And that's when you have to double down on what you think you can create in your life. And I say that word create very intentionally because you are making it up as you go. And this is an opportunity to let to give yourself permission to assume that you could have a life of contentment and peace.

还有美、爱以及所有那些东西。要是有人觉得矛盾：难道我不该更关心环境吗？难道我不该更关心世界的问题吗？为什么我要去想想要什么样的生活、房子等等？在一个感觉失控的世界里，为什么设计一种让你满足、让你栖居于可能性的生活很重要？嗯

And beauty and love and all those things. What what about somebody who feels this conflict that, well, shouldn't I care more about the environment? Shouldn't I care more about the issues of the world? Why like, why should I be thinking about the kind of life or house or all that stuff? Like, why does it matter to design a life that makes you content and that allows you to dwell in in what's possible Mhmm.

在一个感觉失控的世界里。

In a world that feels like it's spinning out of control.

这不是设计一种奢侈的生活。至少在我看来，这不是设计一种消费主义、疯狂消费的生活。实际上，我认为那恰恰是我希望鼓励大家避免的。这是关于：我想在十年后有什么感觉。你越满足，就越能为他人服务。

This isn't about designing a life of extravagance. This isn't about, at least from my perspective, designing a life of consumerism, of rampant consumerism. I actually think that that's sort of the opposite of what I want to be able to encourage people to do with this. This is about how do I wanna feel in ten years. And the more content you are, the more of service you can be to others.

对我来说，能为他人服务，能帮助人们避开我犯过的一些错，或者至少让他们对有意义的生活有所视角，那我就算完成了使命。

And for me, being of service to others and being able to help people avoid some of the mistakes that I made or at least giving them a sense of perspective about what it means to live a life with meaning, then then I'm I'm I've done my job.

是的。我相信你有很多学生做过这个练习，他们就是不知道自己想要什么。他们知道自己不开心，但不确定到底要什么。有没有什么提示能真正帮助某人开始推进这个练习并把它可视化？

Yeah. I'm sure you've had so many students go through this exercise and they just don't know what they want. They know they're unhappy, but they're not sure what they want. Is there any prompt or anything that really allows somebody to start to move themselves forward with the exercise and visualizing it.

我常常问别人：你嫉妒什么？你羡慕谁？你能从那些人身上学到什么？这种嫉妒在告诉你你想做什么？这有时让人难以理解。

Often, I'll ask somebody, what are you jealous of? Who do you admire? What can you learn from those people? What is that jealousy telling you you wanna do? And that's sometimes hard for people to understand.

没人愿意承认自己在嫉妒。但在只给自己看的文字里，如果他们认真思考别人拥有而自己想要的东西，也许就能找到一些可以尝试的方向。

Nobody wants to admit to being jealous. But in the privacy of their own essay, if they think about what it is that somebody else has that they really want, it might give them some clues about what they think they can try for.

假设我们已经做完了这个练习。你把它写了出来，并大声朗读。我很想知道你读完后的感受，因为这确实有效。过去十五年我生活中创造的一切，都源于这个练习。

So let's say that we've done the exercise. You've written this out. You have read it out loud. You know, I'd love to hear how once you do that because it does work. Absolutely, my life, the things that I've created in my life in the last fifteen years are a function of that.

接下来，你仍然需要每天出现，去做那些艰苦、无聊的小事，一步步靠近目标。当微小的迹象开始出现在生活里，你如何平衡大胆梦想、想象可能，与保持现实？还是我们根本不该用这些词来思考？

Now, you still have to show up every day and do the grueling, boring things of walking toward it Yeah. As the small things start to appear in your life. How do you balance kind of that dreaming big and imagining possibility and being realistic? Or should we not even think about it in those terms?

完全不要平衡。现实感必须消失，必须消失。如果你的梦想是中彩票，那我认为这就是现实与非现实的分界线，因为那变成了外部依赖的魔法思维。

Don't balance that at all. Realism has to go away. Has to go away. If your dream is to win lotto, that is where I think the line in the sand is in terms of realism. That then becomes magical thinking because it's an external thing.

你无法让那发生，你无法创造它，它不是一个可制造的过程。除此之外，我认为要大胆做梦，狂野做梦。

You can't make that happen. You can't create that. It's not a process of making. So other than that, I think dream big, dream wild.

我喜欢这句话。我绝对喜欢。所以没有现实主义。

I love that. I absolutely love that. So no realism.

没有现实主义。没有概率。没有流程。

No realism. No probability. No process.

你认为写下梦想后，为了真正实现它，最重要的一步是什么？

What do you think the most important thing that you can do after you write it down is to actually make it happen.

读一遍，然后收起来。

Read it and put it away.

收起来吧。对。

Put it away. Yeah.

收起来，一年后再读一遍。

Put it away. Read it again in a year.

当事情开始发生时，承认它正在发生重要吗？宣称这些小迹象正在发生重要吗？我不会以公开的方式宣称它。我觉得这是一种

And when things start to happen, is it important to acknowledge that it's happening? Is it important to claim that these small signs are happening? I wouldn't necessarily claim it in a public way. I think it's a

一种可爱的方式，让你确信自己为自身做了有意义的事，并且你能为此欣赏自己。但我也觉得这在很多方面是一种非常私密、充满灵魂的体验，因为它不是为了低调炫耀、炫耀或比较。它真正关乎的是显化。我认为其中有一种非常安静而强大的力量。

a lovely way to reassure yourself that you've done something meaningful for yourself and you can appreciate that in yourself. But I think it's also a very private, soulful experience in a lot of ways because it's not about humble brag or brag or comparison. It's really about a manifestation. And I think there's something really quietly powerful in that.

嗯。我甚至经常想起我86岁的婆婆，因为她总是说她想参加每个人的婚礼。她说“每个人”时，意思是如果他们选择结婚的话；她想参加全部九个孙子的婚礼。对。这也是她每天走五英里的原因之一。

Yeah. I'm thinking a lot even about my mother-in-law who's 86 because what she says all the time is she wants to make it to everybody's wedding. And when she says everybody, she's taught it'd be if they choose to get married, but she would like to make it to all nine of her grandkids' wedding. Yeah. And it's one of the reasons why she walks like five miles a day.

真棒。哇。但这里有一种编码，在想象可能性的同时，而不是用“最小的才20岁，你不知道他们会不会——你懂我意思吧？”来否定它。

Good for her. Wow. But there is a encoding and in imagining what's possible versus dismissing it by saying, well, the youngest is 20. You don't know. Are they gonna you you know what I'm saying?

嗯。所以这里的邀请就是栖居在可能性里，是允许自己去想象。如果现在有人在听，还处在“这真的有用吗？这适合我吗？这真的适合任何年龄的人吗？”这样的阵营里——

Yeah. And so the invitation here is to dwell in possibility, is to allow yourself to imagine. And if somebody is listening right now and they're kind of still in that camp of does this really work? Is this for me? Like, is this really for anybody of any age?

我看不出希望对任何人有限制。我想和你分享一件事：当人们尝试做某事时，有一句常见的说法。嗯。人们说，“装到你成功为止”。我不相信这个。

I don't see any restrictions to hope. One thing that I do want to share with you is that there's a common, statement that people make when they're trying to do something. Mhmm. And people say, well, fake it till you make it. And I don't believe in that.

我觉得那很不真实。我说“做到你成功为止”。如果你装到你成功为止，你是在假装；如果你在努力做，直到你真正做到，你就是过程的一部分，你是有意图的。

I feel that that's very inauthentic. I say make it until you make it. If you fake it until you make it, you're pretending. If you're working at making it until you make it, you're part of the process. You're intentional.

当你“做到你成功为止”时，你正在设计你的人生；而对我来说，“做到你成功为止”与“在制作东西时最快乐”这两股生活的线索正好交汇在一起。

You're designing your life when you're making it until you make it. And that for me, between making it until you make it and being happiest making things feels like where the threads of my life dovetail.

而这个过程实际上能帮助你从今天开始，去创造你想要的东西。你知道，你已经教这个方法很多年了。那些学过你“设计人生”流程的学生，有没有在多年后写信给你说些什么？

And where this process actually helps you Yeah. To start today Yeah. Making what you want. You know, you've been teaching this process for years. What what if some of the students that you've taught this design your life process to written to you years later to say?

到现在我已经教了大约45到50个班，每班平均18到25名学生。我会收到邮件、便条，有时还有贺卡，他们分享这个练习如何创造了他们的人生，因为他们用心写下了这篇文章。五年、八年、十年、十二年、十五年后，他们要么实现了最重要或全部的目标，要么让他们明白了自己不想要什么，从而可以重新设计——因为重新设计在很多方面和设计一样有趣——这让我心花怒放。

So I've been doing this now with about for about 45, 50 classes with an average of 18 to 25 students per class. And I get emails, notes. I sometimes get cards in the mail where they share how this exercise created their lives because they designed this essay and wrote this essay with their hearts open. And five, eight, ten, twelve, fifteen years later, they've manifested either the most important things or everything, or it gave them a sense of what they didn't want and then what they could redesign because redesigning is as much fun as designing in a lot of ways and makes my heart sing.

太美了，真的太美了。

It's beautiful. It's so beautiful.

然后这些人又能帮助别人做同样的事，如此循环往复。

And then those people can help other people do it And so on and so on and so on.

所以我特别兴奋你来到这里，因为我觉得这场对话不仅邀请你去梦想、沉浸在可能性中，并认真对待“有意设计你想要的人生”这份邀请；我更激动的是，当你观看或聆听时，你不仅为自己做这件事，还会把这份邀请分享给你关心的每一个人，让他们也能为别人完成同样的过程。是的。

Well, that's why I'm so excited that you're here because I see this conversation as an invitation to not only allow you to dream and dwell in possibility and take the invitation to intentionally design the life that you want seriously. Yeah. But I'm also super excited because you know, as you've been as you watch this or as you listen to this, you're not only gonna do it for yourself, but every person that you care about that you share it with Yeah. You are sharing that invitation to be able to do that same process for somebody else. Yes.

是的，这是多么不可思议的礼物。太棒了。那么黛比，如果听众在听完你分享的所有内容后只做一件事，你觉得最重要的一件事是什么？

Yes. And what an incredible gift that is. Incredible. So Debbie, if if the person with us does just one thing after hearing everything that you've shared with us? What do you think the most important thing to do after listening or watching this is?

我会说：就试试看吧。试试看，你会对自己有新的认识。而这不正是我们能给自己的最棒的礼物吗？

I would say just give it a shot. Give it a shot. You'll learn something about yourself. And isn't that the greatest gift we can give ourselves?

谢谢你给我们一个具体可行的流程，帮助我们做到这一点。我的荣幸。

Well, thank you for giving us a process and a very specific thing that we can do to help us do that. My pleasure.

黛比、梅尔，临别有什么话？那我就借这个机会问一个我几乎每天都会问自己的问题：如果不是现在，那要等到何时？如果不是现在，那要等到何时？你太棒了。

Debbie, Melvin, what are your parting words? Well, I'm going to use this as an opportunity to ask a question I ask of myself almost every day. If not now, when? If not now, when? You're incredible.

谢谢。梅尔，你真的能激发人们最好的一面。我得告诉你，你真的做到了，你给了别人闪耀的机会。

Thank you. Well, you bring out the best in people, Mel. I have to tell you. You really do. You give people an opportunity to shine.

谢谢。

Thank you.

嗯，这就是我想让你做的。我欣赏你的作品很多年了。你一直在嘉宾名单上

Well, that's all I wanted you to do. I've admired your work for years. You have been on the list of guests

谢谢。

Thank you.

从一开始。所以我很高兴我们能把你请到波士顿，让你教授这种改变人生的方法，并从你的人生经历和你一直教授学生的课程中学习。所以我发自内心地，也代表那位一直在听或看并和我们一起度过这段时间的人，我只是谢谢你。谢谢你做的工作。谢谢你来到这里。

Since the beginning. And so I'm glad that we could get you here to Boston and have you teach this life changing method and to learn from the lessons of your life and from what you've been teaching students. And so I just from the bottom of my heart and on behalf of the person that's been listening or watching and spending time with us together, I just thank you. Thank you for the work that you do. Thank you for being here.

谢谢你和我们分享这个过程，因为我认为每个人都值得设计他们想要的生活。我真的真的希望如此。嗯，我们现在知道怎么做了，所以我想确保告诉你，如果不是现在，那是什么时候？作为你的朋友，我要告诉你，今天。今天就是我想让你翻开书并为自己回答这些问题的那一天。

Thank you for sharing this process with us because I think everybody deserves to design the life that they want. I really, really hope so. Well, we now know how to do it, and so I wanna make sure to tell you if not now, when? And as your friend, I'm gonna tell you, today. Today is the day that I want you to crack open the book and answer these questions for yourself.

因为我毫不怀疑，如果你这样做，你实际上就会创造出你想要的生活。万一没有别人告诉你，我想作为你的朋友确保告诉你，我爱你，我相信你。我相信你有能力创造更好的生活。由于黛比·米利安教授今天教给你的一切，你现在有了路线图，所以去做吧。我会在下一期节目里等着欢迎你。

Because there is no doubt in my mind, if you do, you will actually be creating the life that you want. And in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. And because of everything that professor Debbie Millian taught you today, you now have the road map to do so, so go do it. And I will be waiting to welcome you in to the very next episode.

那里见。那个有降下来一点吗？好了。这样好一点。嗯。

I'll see you there. Did that bump down at all? There you go. That's a little better. Yep.

我们开始吧。先保留那个想法。因为我们当时有一台摄像机。我听到了。嗯。

Here we go. Hold that thought. Because we had a there was a camera. I heard that. Yeah.

嗯。不过你表现得很棒，一直在继续。

Yeah. It's But you did great continuing to just go.

我不知道。我觉得我没做对。

I don't know. I don't think I'm doing the right.

在右手上。哦，怪不得。

It's on the right hand. Oh, that's why.

我刚才在弄左边。

I was doing left side.

好吧。他们设计反了，所以这样。

Okay. They designed it wrong. That's why.

我是左撇子。好了。

I'm a left. There we go.

试试那个。

Try that.

好了。头发。炸毛了吗？没有。看起来很好。

There we go. The hair. Is it frizzed up? No. It looks great.

我看起来像《老友记》里的莫妮卡吗？

Do I look like Monica and friends

其实真有人认出她？我跟你说，我越邋遢，我们的内容数据越好。我们去超市就长这样。所以，完全没问题。

actually gets her? I'm a tell you what. My our content does better the worse I look. We look like this at the grocery store. So Absolutely.

我遛狗时就这模样。

This is how I look

我女儿甚至会打电话问我：你为啥发那条视频？我说：我就那副样子去逛超市啊。哇。

when I'm walking my dogs. Yes. My daughters literally will call me and be like, why did you post that video? I'm like, I just went to the store looking like that. Wow.

谢谢。你太棒了。是的。哦，还有一件事。不，这不是花絮。

Thank you. You're so good. Yeah. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper.

这是法律用语。你知道的，律师写的那些，我得读给你听。本播客仅供教育和娱乐目的。我只是你的朋友。我不是持证治疗师，本播客不能替代医生、专业教练、心理治疗师或其他合格专业人士的建议。

This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

明白了吗？很好。下期节目见。

Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

SeriousXM播客。

SeriousXM Podcasts.