如何高效完成任务、保持专注并提升生产力

因为我在生意上确实能看到这一点。

Because I can see that for business.

你不可能同时经营十一家公司。

Like, you can't be in 11 businesses at once.

是的。

Yeah.

你真的知道，这一周、这个月、今年，对你事业成功最重要的两三件事是什么吗？

Do you actually know the two or three most important things that need to get done this week, this month, this year to be successful in business?

我刚开始的时候犯过很大的错误，为了生存，什么都答应。

And I made massive mistakes in the very beginning of just saying yes to everything out of survival.

我在播客里有个说法，叫‘直面效率巨龙’。

Well, I have this phrase on my podcast that's called facing the productivity dragon.

因为我做问答环节，听众会打电话进来。

Because I get q and a, so people call in.

他们常常遇到这个问题。

And they often have this issue.

他们说，你看啊。

They're like, look.

我这边有一堆事，那边也有一堆事。

I have this going on and this.

我得做这个。

I need to do this.

我正试着做这个。

I'm trying to do this.

我还在训练马拉松，还要照顾父母。

And I'm training for the marathon, and I'm taking care of my parent.

同时我还想学射箭。

And I'm also trying to learn how to shoot archery.

对吧。

Right.

你手里头这一长串事情。

What you have, these these big long list of things.

面对生产力巨龙，其实就是把所有你想做的事列出来，再算算每件事要花多少时间。

And facing a productivity dragon is actually listing out, here's all the things I wanna do and how much time this is going to take.

然后才发现，这些事根本不可能全做完。

And then realizing I can't do all these things.

我们管这叫直面巨龙。

We call it facing the dragons.

对很多人来说，这事儿特别吓人。

This is very scary for people.

你不愿意承认，也许你真正想做的事，不可能全都有时间做。

You don't want to confront the reality that maybe the things you really want to do aren't all going to fit.

等你直面了这些生产力巨龙，就会迎来一次现实的清醒。

And then the response after you face your productivity dragons like a reality check.

这时候你会想：我到底有多少时间可用？

It's like, well, what time do I have?

人生有些阶段，时间安排根本不是你理想中的样子。

And there's phases of life where it's not what you would want.

你懂的。

You know?

比如有小孩的那段日子，我就没法同时做这做那。

There's a phase of life when you have young kids, for example, where I can't also do this and that.

我没法去训练了。

I can't train for this.

没法和朋友搞起我的电影俱乐部。

I can't get my cinema club up with my friends.

这种事现在根本不可能了。

Like, that's not going to happen now.

人生另一个阶段，也许那时候就能了。

There's another season of life where maybe that that will.

或者我要照顾年迈的父母。

Or I'm taking care of a parent who's aging.

这事儿真得花掉我大量时间，我得面对现实。

This is a huge time let me face this.

这是我目前正在做的大事，占了我大量时间。

This is a major thing I'm doing, and this is eating up a huge amount of time.

当你意识到效率拖累并冷静评估后，就能更明智地安排手头的时间。

And when you face the productivity drag and you reality check, then you could make better decisions about the time you do have.

那我就明白了。

And you say, okay.

这三件事目标太高了。

These three things were too ambitious.

它们对时间的要求太死板了。

Their time demands were too static.

我根本挤不出时间来做这些。

I'm not going to be able to fit this in.

而且我压力也特别大。

But I'm also really stressed out.

那为什么不换成别的事呢？更灵活，还能让我恢复精力。

So why don't I replace this with this other thing that is more flexible and is going to help me recharge?

也许我该多到大自然里走走，这就当成我的新安排吧。

Like, maybe what I need to do is get outside in nature more, and that's just going to be my thing.

或者我就想能读完一本书，每周一本。

Or I wanna just be able to read and get through a book a week.

就是每周读一本小说，如果可能的话，每周挑两个晚上去咖啡馆静静地读。

You know, read one novel a week, and I wanna spend, you know, two evenings a week if I can at the coffee shop reading.

一周一本小说？

One novel a week?

卡尔。

Cal.

你到底有多快的阅读速度啊？

How fast do you read, for crying out loud?

这听起来有点太猛了。

That sounds a little ambitious,

卡尔，我该说，好吧。

I Cal should say Okay.

谢谢。

Thank you.

你这是在跟我们这些普通人说话啊，卡尔·纽波特。

Like, you're talking to to we mere mortals here, Cal Newport.

我想举个例子，当年我和克里斯刚当父母的时候，他一直梦想着去读MBA。

Well, I wanna give an example because one thing that came to mind is that when Chris and I, were young parents, it had always been his dream to get an MBA.

当你想到这个原则——一次只专注少数几件事的时候。

And when you think about this principle, do fewer things at the same time.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得我们每个人心里都压着一堆事，总觉得自己没做到，搁在那儿愧疚。

I think that there are a ton of things that we all have in the back of our mind that we hang over our heads and say, you're not getting to it.

对我来说，就是学西班牙语。

One for me is learning Spanish.

这事我可是聊了几十年了。

So this is something I've been talking about for decades.

明白吗？

K?

它一直都在那儿。

It's always there.

还有学吉他。

Another one, learning guitar.

我家里人人都会弹。

Everybody in my family plays.

但我不会。

I do not.

我总觉得自己欠着这件事。

I always, like, have this hanging over my head.

家里还有好多活儿没干。

There are projects around the house.

我都不想提‘照片墙’这事了，因为在这儿的人都知道我说的是什么——我都叨叨好多年了。

I don't even wanna say the word picture wall because everybody here will know what I'm talking about because I've been talking about it.

把这些都写在纸上，真的让人清醒过来，心里忍不住说：算了吧。

And it is very sobering to write all this stuff down on a piece of paper and go, come on now.

我现在这么忙，到底是在折磨自己什么？其实这些事根本没那么重要。

What is this busyness that I'm torturing myself with that I just it's just not important right now.

是的。

Yeah.

以我现在的时间，我宁愿去徒步，也不想坐下来学吉他。

Based on the time that I have, I would rather be hiking than sitting down and trying to learn guitar right now.

事实就是这样，我得直面这个问题。

It just is what it is and I need to face the dragon.

克里斯特别想拿MBA，后来真进了一个两年制的项目。

With Chris, he really wanted to get his MBA, and he got into a two year program.

那时候我们两个孩子都还没满五岁。

And we had two kids that were under the age of five.

我们俩都在上班。

We were both working.

他最后的做法我觉得特别值得大家听听：他承认这确实重要，但没法全职投入。

And what he ended up doing, which I think is an important thing for people to hear, is he basically said, this actually does matter, but I can't go full time.

他每学期只选一门课。

He went one class a semester.

花了七年时间，但他终究完成了。

It took him seven years, but he got it done.

这不正是运用这个原则来面对效率怪兽的好例子吗？你可以告诉自己：现在不是时候，但如果真想做，也许得重新规划时间，对自己诚实一点。

And so is that an example of how you can use this principle to face the productivity dragon and basically say, not now, but if this is gonna happen now, maybe I've gotta expand how much time I have to give to it and be honest with myself.

我觉得这是个特别好的例子。

I think it's a great example.

我刚才笑是因为，我们家还留着从Crate and Barrel买的那箱照片墙相框。

And I should say I was laughing because we have our box from Crate and Barrel of our picture wall frame.

那箱子在地下室放了整整十年。

It's been in our basement for a decade.

我们当初买下来了。

We bought them.

我们明明知道迟早要挂上去的。

We we knew we were gonna hang them.

我觉得所有有孩子的人都有这种感觉。

I think everybody who has kids feels this way.

就是得把照片挂到墙上才行。

Like, I need to get the photos up on the wall.

我们甚至一度还专门下单拍了照片。

I think we even ordered the photos at one point.

但现在照片都过时了。

But now they're all out of date.

孩子都长大好多了。

Our kids are much older.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

这太搞笑了。

That's hilarious.

但我认为这正是个完美的例子。

But I think that's a perfect example.

对。

Yeah.

我经常讲很多故事，因为我发现这一点特别重要。

And it I tell a bunch of stories because I found this really important.

我会讲很多故事，比如在最近那本书里，我谈到了那些做出伟大成就的人，他们实际上是在多快的节奏下完成这些事的。

I tell a bunch of stories, you know, in the the more recent book about the pace at which people who did famous things actually did those things.

当你说到这个，我可太想听了。

When you oh, I wanna hear this.

都是些什么故事？

What are they?

你想想牛顿，这就是个典型的例子。

You look at someone like Isaac Newton, like a big example.

对吧？

Right?

天哪。

Like, oh god.

他写了本发明微积分、发现万有引力的书。

He wrote this book that invented calculus and figured out gravity.

他断断续续花了好几十年在上面。

He worked on that thing off and on for decades.

我们根本不知道他到底花了多久。

And we don't know how long it took him.

我们只知道，哦，他做了件特别了不起的事。

We just know, like, oh, he did this thing that was really impressive.

对吧？

Right?

或者简·奥斯汀。

Or or Jane Austen.

你懂的吧。

You know?

她其实一直在背后写这些书，但直到快四十岁的时候，才终于把它们写完。

She sort of was working on these books in the background, but it wasn't till later in life, basically, she got towards her young forties that she sort of finally finished these books.

我们不知道她花了多久时间。

We don't know how long it took her.

她写出了这么棒的书。

She wrote these great books.

对吧。

Right?

我觉得这点挺重要的：慢慢来，长远来看根本没关系。

This I think is a helpful thing to keep in mind is doing things slowly doesn't matter in the long run.

最后大家会说，克里斯拿到了MBA。

In the end, you say, oh, Chris has an MBA.

真不错。

That's great.

还打开了不少有趣的机会。

And opened up these interesting opportunities.

或者梅尔学会了弹吉他。

Or Mel learned to play guitar.

也许十年后你才真正去做了。

And then maybe it's ten years from now that you actually do it.

总觉得所有事都得立刻完成，这种想法反而困住了我们。

The idea that it all has to get done right now, I think, traps us.

所以少做点事，慢慢来，时间久了就会有积累。

So doing fewer things, taking your time with things, it adds up over time.

确实如此。

For sure.

不过我觉得，这真是个完美的例子。

It's a perfect example, though, I think.

我是真的很想做这件事，但现在没法参加全职项目。

It's like, I really wanna do this, but I can't do a full time program right now.

很好。

Great.

我会慢慢来。

I'll take my time.

我很喜欢你举的例子，就是说，我现在的人生阶段是正在抚养年幼的孩子。

And I love the example that you gave that, all right, I'm just in the chapter of my life where I'm raising young kids.

或者说，我现在的人生阶段是陪在父母身边的时间不多了，我反而更看重这一点，胜过那些以前觉得重要的事情。

Or all right, I'm in the chapter of my life where the amount of time I have with my parents is limited, and I really value that more than these other things that I thought were important.

你能对那些不擅长说“不”的人说几句吗？

Can you speak to the person who has trouble saying no?

他们一说“不”就特别内疚。

Like they feel so guilty saying no.

对于那些需要开始学会说“不”，却总是做不到的人，你有什么建议？

What is your advice to somebody who needs to start saying no but just has trouble doing it?

其实你比自己想的更常在说“不”了。

You're probably saying no more than you think.

好吧。

Okay.

对吧？

Right?

你现在手头上的工作，并不全是别人拜托你做的事。

It's not that the work on your plate right now is exactly all the things people have asked you to do.

如果你现在开始说不，别以为这是你头一回这么做，好像你以前从来没拒绝过任何人。

And now if you start saying no, that this is the first time you've ever done it, you're implicitly turning things down all the time.

你其实只是等到压力大了才开始推掉一些事。

You're probably just waiting till you're stressed before you start pushing back.

这并不是要你从一个从不拒绝的人，变成一个总说不的人。

So this is not about going from someone who never says no to someone who does.

而是稍微多说几次不。

It's about saying no a little bit more often.

所以我总是试着把这事看轻一点。

So I try to lower the stakes.

对吧？

Right?

你其实已经在管理自己的工作量了。

You're already controlling your workload.

其次，要明白别人并没有你想象的那么在意你的工作量。

And then two, to recognize other people don't care about you and your workload as much as you think.

我觉得我们总是会想当然，当别人问你能不能做某事时，以为他们有个控制中心，里面详细记录了你的一切，你答应过什么、拒绝过什么，一旦你拒绝，就会警报大作，他们还会纳闷：‘这人怎么又拒绝了？’

I think we project again when someone's asking us what to do that they have a control room where everyone has all these notes on you and everything you've said yes and no to and that a red siren's gonna go off when you say no, and they're gonna be like, why is this person saying no?

但实际上，他们并没有这么在意你。

They don't care that much about you in that sense.

对吧？

Right?

他们只是随便问问，

They're just, hey.

你能帮个忙吗？

Can you do this?

你一说不干，对方就无所谓地说，哦，行啊。

And you say no like, oh, great.

我再找别人就是了。

I'll ask someone else.

对吧？

Right?

这事儿对他们来说就是顺口一提。

Like, it's just something on their mind.

所以别把这事看得太重。

So try to lower the stakes.

对吧？

Right?

对你来说更重要。

It matters more to you.

你可能因为拒绝而更不安，但你真的得这么干。

You're probably getting more thrown by saying no than the other person, but you absolutely have to.

你得管好自己的工作量。

You have to control your workload.

还有个马特·达蒙法则，

There's also the Matt Damon rule,

意思差不多。

which is similar.

他的做法是，总要想象自己就在那件你答应的事发生前一天。

His rule was always you have to project yourself to the day before the thing you disagreed to is about to happen.

如果是前一天晚上，你是会兴奋不已，还是会想，天哪，我得飞去巴尔的摩了，或者干别的什么？

So if you're the night before, are you going to be psyched or are you going to say, oh my god, I have to fly to Baltimore now or do whatever?

因为当时答应一件事，觉得挺有意思，你只想着好玩的部分。

Because it's exciting in the moment to say yes to something that sounds fun because you're just thinking about the fun part.

可到了前一天晚上，你得打包、赶机场、离开孩子的时候，你还会觉得开心吗？

But how are you gonna feel the night before when you're having to pack and go to the airport and be away from your kids?

如果你那时候并不期待，那就现在直接拒绝吧。

And if you're not gonna be excited, then say no right now.

我太喜欢这个了。

I love that.

事实上，卡尔，我能想到无数个我答应下来的事，结果前一天晚上就在想：我干嘛答应这个？

In fact, Cal, I can think of a million things that I've said yes to, where the night before I'm thinking, why did I say yes to this?

当时要么觉得这主意不错，卡尔，要么更糟的是，我根本不敢拒绝，现在后悔死了。

It either seemed like a good idea, Cal, at the time or worse, I was so chicken to say no and now I'm really regretting it.

所以我真的超爱这个方法，因为它真的管用。

So I freaking love it because it does work.

既然说到时间，我忍不住想，现在正是暂停一下，让我们出色的赞助商说几句话的绝佳时机。

And since we're talking about time, I can't help but think this is the perfect time to hit pause and give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words.

在听赞助商广告的时候，也别忘了把这期节目分享给你在乎的人。

And while you're listening to our sponsors, share this with people that you care about.

我觉得我们都掉进了伪高效、瞎忙、压力和焦虑的陷阱，现在这情况达到了前所未有的高度。

I think we all have fallen into this trap of pseudo productivity, busyness, stress, overwhelm, it's at an all time high.

而卡尔·纽波特教授今天来，就是为你和你关心的人提供真正能帮你夺回时间的工具，我们都值得拥有这样的生活。

And professor Cal Newport is here to give you and the people that you care about the tools that you need to take your time back, and we all deserve that.

说到时间，别走开，等这个短暂的广告结束后，我和Cal还会回来，我们还有很多东西要向他学习，敬请继续关注。

And speaking of time, don't go anywhere because Cal and I are gonna be waiting for you after this very short break, and we've got so much more to learn from him, so stay with us.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

我是你的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯。

It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

今天，你和我将一起向纽波特教授学习。

Today, you and I are getting to learn from Professor Cal Newport.

他是一位多次登上《纽约时报》畅销书榜的作者，也是全球慢生产力、深度工作和掌控时间领域的顶尖专家之一。

He's a multiple New York Times bestselling author and he is one of the world's leading experts on slow productivity, deep work, and taking control of your time.

所以，Cal，我想从你的书《慢生产力》里读一段给你听。

So, Cal, I wanna read you from your book, Slow Productivity.

这段话在第59页，是你深入探讨‘少做些事’这个理念的部分。

This is on page 59, and it's in the section where you're really unpacking this concept of do fewer things.

少做几件事的好处在于，它不仅增加了投入有效活动的总时长，更提升了这些时间的质量。

The advantage of doing fewer things, however, is that more than just increasing the raw number of hours dedicated to useful activity, the quality of these hours also increases.

当你不被逼着去应付一堆快失控的琐事时，做项目反而会更有空间去尝试和探索。

When you approach a project without the hurried need to tend many barely contained fires, you enjoy a more expansive sense of experimentation and possibility.

你可能会发现一个巧妙的新商业策略，设计出一个优雅的算法，或者想出一个大胆的广告创意——这些在心神分散时根本想不出来。

Maybe you're able to identify a clever new business strategy, devise an elegant algorithm, or come up with a bold advertising campaign that would have eluded you in a more fragmented state of attention.

这种现象背后当然有生理和神经科学的解释，比如日程排得太满时皮质醇会抑制大脑，或者大脑神经元之间建立深层联系需要时间。

There are boring physiological and neurological explanations for this effect involving the mind constricting impacts of cortisol when your schedule becomes unrealistically full or the time required to excite rich, semantic connections among your brain's neurons.

但其实我们根本不需要科学来证明一件事：我们都亲身体验过，不赶时间的时候，脑子反而更清醒。

But we don't need science to convince us of something that we've all experienced directly: our brains work better when we're not rushing.

读到这一章时，我感觉自己的大脑终于松了一口气：我们不仅觉得被逼着拼命产出，

What I got from this section of the book, I could feel my brain exhale, is that in addition to that sense that I think we all feel that we're being squeezed to death to produce as much as we can.

更错过了慢下来之后，身心真正能发挥出的最佳状态能带来的可能性。

That we're also missing out on what's possible when we slow down and give our mind, body, and spirit its best chance to do our best work.

无论是你为YouTube频道拍的视频，还是陪父母那一个小时，能真正陪着他们，

Whether that's the video you're creating for a YouTube channel, or it's simply being able to be present with your parents when you're spending that hour with them.

或者陪孩子的时候不忙着接十五个电话，而是专心待在他们身边。

Or present with your kids when you're spending a little bit of time with them instead of jamming in 15 phone calls.

后来发生了一件事，真让人难过。

And I had something happen that was so kind of sad.

有个女人走过来跟我打招呼，说：嗨。

I had a woman come up to me and say, oh, you know, hi.

我超爱你的播客。

I I I love your podcast.

那周末我老公和我出去了，我就跟她聊了起来。

And my husband and I were away for the weekend, and I and I started chatting with her.

她说：是啊。

And she said, oh, yeah.

我这次是带着孩子出来的。

Well, I'm here with my kids.

她转过头对我说：我得出来一趟特别重要，因为我平时工作太拼了，创业搞这么大一个公司，天天在线，要不是出来度假，根本没法陪孩子。

And she turned to me and said, You know, it's really important that I'm away because you know, I work like crazy and I've built this big business and I'm constantly online and I'm never present with them unless I'm on vacation.

她说这话的时候，语气简直像在炫耀自己有多忙。

And she said it in a way that was almost like bragging about the busyness.

我觉得我们每个人头上都戴着一顶这样的王冠。

And I do think that there is this sort of crown that we're putting on our heads.

我比你忙多了。

I'm busier than you are.

我干了这么多事。

I'm doing all these things.

这让我感到特别难过。

It just made me feel so sad.

是啊。

Yeah.

她居然能这么说，说我只有在度假时才陪孩子，因为那是我唯一不工作的时刻。

That she could actually say that, that I'm only present with my kids when I'm on vacation because that's the only time I'm not working.

是啊。

Yeah.

真让人难过。

What a sad thing.

我觉得这个角度值得提一下，就是说，宣称自己比谁都忙，其实有种心理上的安全感。

I think this is an angle that's that's worth putting in there is that there is a bit of a psychological safety in saying, I can be busier than anyone else.

至少这件事我肯定不会搞砸。

I'm not gonna fail at that.

但如果你的目标是制定一个能带来实际收益的策略，

But if it's instead, I'm gonna try to produce a strategy that's gonna put dollars on the board.

你的市场指标是这场活动的效果，

My marketing measure this campaign.

这本书会卖多少本，

This is gonna this book is gonna sell this many copies.

那你就有可能失败。

You can fail at that.

所以我们对‘我只是想把这事搞定’这种说法，反而不太自在。

And so we're less comfortable with, I'm just focusing trying to get this done.

你经常能在研究生身上看到这种情况。

You know where you see this a lot is grad students.

对吧？

Right?

所以我是个学者。

So I'm an academic.

当我还在波士顿读博士的时候，尤其是在MIT，那段日子至今让我记忆犹新。

And, you know, I when I was at the doctoral program, you know, here in Boston, MIT, just have a lot of memories of being back here.

很多刚进入博士项目的学生都会感到害怕，因为你有大把的时间，很大的自由度，目标却非常明确。

It's very scary for a lot of students who arrive at something like a doctoral program because you have a lot of time, you have a lot of flexibility, and the the goal is very clear.

做出研究成果。

Produce research.

写论文。

Write papers.

这其实特别让人紧张，因为方向太松散了，可能你得花六个月反复琢磨才能出成果。

And that's really scary because it's loose, and it could take you six months of thinking to produce it.

很多研究生都会陷入一种状态：拼命让自己看起来很忙，好让自己心里不那么愧疚。

And there's an effect that hits a lot of grad students where they inject a lot of busyness into their life so that they don't feel guilty.

因为太让人害怕了。

Because it's too scary.

一想到要一个人坐着干想，指望六个月后能写出一篇好论文，这实在让人压得喘不过气。

It's too overwhelming, this idea of I'm just gonna sit and think, and hopefully, I produce a good paper six months from now.

你经常能看到，那些受苦的学生总会给自己堆满各种任务。

And you see it all the time that you can point out these are the students who are suffering from They take on all sorts of obligations.

他们变得特别焦躁。

They get really frantic.

结果就是根本没法完成学业。

They never make it through the program.

但他们还是这么干，因为心理上实在没法接受：我就得慢慢熬，最终产出点像样的东西。

But they do it because it was it was too scary psychologically to say, I just have to eventually produce something good.

我觉得这其实直接对应到每个人的日常生活。

Well, you know, I think this is a direct application to people's personal lives.

如果你曾经经历过人生中某个卡住的阶段

Because if you've ever been in a period of your life where you're stuck

是的。

Yeah.

无论是二十几岁、三十几岁时纠结职业方向，还是处理感情问题，或者像我这样五十多岁了，还在想该怎么重新开始，却不知道下一步该做什么，情况都一样。

Whether it's trying to figure out what your career should be in your twenties or thirties figuring out relationships or whatever it may be, You're in your 50s like me and you're thinking about reinventing yourself and you don't know what the next move is.

我看到过同样的情况反复发生。

I see the same thing happening.

人们用一堆琐碎的事情填满每一天，只为让自己忙个不停，因为真正静下心来思考‘我接下来该做什么’，认真读书、看视频，或者去接受心理咨询，都让人害怕。

People fill their days with meaningless stuff to stay busy because contemplating the deeper questions of what should I do next and really leaning into that and reading books about it and watching videos about it or going to therapy is scary.

于是，你可能就这样虚耗了好几年，做着一堆毫无意义的事，只因为你不敢放慢脚步——而这，正是你教我们的‘慢生产力’理念，可这跟我们今天的生活方式完全背道而驰。

And so you can waste years of your life piddling around doing a lot of meaningless stuff because you were scared to slow down, which is what you're teaching us, this concept of slow productivity, which isn't how we're wired today.

我想继续讲讲这三个原则。

And know, I wanna keep going with the three principles.

第二个原则是：按自己的自然节奏工作。

The second principle is work at a natural pace.

这到底是什么意思？

What does that mean?

这其实关乎你放慢节奏，不再急于完成每件事

Well, this goes back to slowing down how long you spend on things

好的

k.

并且学会接受这样

And being okay with it.

我们给自己设定了一个标准

Like, we we set the standard

好的

K.

编了个童话故事给自己听

Where we're gonna we write ourselves a fairy tale.

好的

K.

没错

Right.

我们想做这些事。

Here's these things we wanna do.

我想拿个MBA学位。

I wanna get my MBA.

我想把房子翻新一下。

I wanna renovate the house.

是的。

Uh-huh.

我想学这个编程语言，好在工作上更进一步。

I wanna learn this programming language so I can get ahead at work.

我们编了个童话，想象要是能在六个月里把所有这些事都做完该多好。

We write a fairy tale about wouldn't it be great if I got all of these things done in six months?

然后我们就渐渐爱上了这个故事的结局。

And then we begin to fall in love with the ending of that tale.

想想看，六个月后我得多有成就感啊。

Man, I'd be in such a good place six months from now.

那该多好啊。

Wouldn't that be so great?

没错。

Great.

我就要这么做。

This is what I'm going to do.

我现在就要把所有这些事都办了。

I'm going do all these things right now.

但这根本不可能，因为这些事都需要大量时间，我们把自己逼得太紧，最后反而撑不住了。

And it's impossible because these things take a lot of time and we stress ourselves out and we we fall apart trying to do it.

所以，按自然的节奏来，别写童话故事。

So working at a natural pace is don't write a fairy tale.

好的。

K.

该花多少时间就花多少时间，一次只做一件事。如果你花好几年才拿到MBA，那房子就得两年后才能动；编程语言也别急，等明年夏天事情少了，再安心报个课慢慢学。

Take the time things need and maybe do one thing at a time and know that if it takes you this many years to do the NBA, you don't get to the house until two years from now, and that you'll later maybe you'll pick up this programming language, you're going to wait till next summer when things are quieter and then you can actually take time to take a course.

所有事情最终都会做完，但没必要非得用最快的速度去做。

All of it will get done, but you don't have to do it at the fastest possible pace.

按自然节奏做事的另一层意思是，哪怕在一天之内，也不用从早到晚拼命干。

The other thing that work at natural pace means is in the context of even like a given day, you don't have to be all out all day.

好的。

Okay.

那我们来聊聊这个。

Well, let's talk about this.

我觉得很多人，包括我自己，都因为那种虚假的效率观，还有对忙碌的执念，早就习惯了那种压力山大、心神不宁的状态。比如我，对能完成多少事有着极其不切实际的期待。

Because I feel that the there's a lot of us that I think because of pseudo productivity and this obsession with busyness and the fact that we're very used to feeling this overwhelm and this stress and this constant buzzing, that I have, for example, Cal, the most unrealistic expectation about what I could get done

是的。

Yeah.

十分钟内搞定。

In ten minutes.

我看到你脸上那种表情，就像我老公克里斯常有的那样。我猜你太太可能也跟我差不多——开车等她的时候，她还在家里跑来跑去，一边打电话，一边赶着做这做那，居然能在九分钟里塞进二十五件事。

And I or I I I I'm seeing this expression on your face that I've seen on my husband Chris's face, so I would imagine maybe your wife is a little bit more like me, where you're in the car waiting and she's still running around the house trying to get some things done and make a phone call and then, like, she can squeeze 25 things into about nine minutes.

对。

Yeah.

但我做同样多的事得花上一个半小时。

And it takes me ninety minutes to do the same amount of things.

是的。

Yes.

但你是知道的。

But you know that.

我知道。

I know that.

没错。

Yeah.

但我每天早上还是醒来就给自己施加这种不切实际的压力，真的。

But I still wake up every day and it's like I impose this insanity on myself Yeah.

明明知道要花二十三分钟才能开车到地方，我却以为自己十ー分钟就能把所有事做完，其实我早该十七分钟前就上路了。

That I can get all this stuff done in a matter of eleven minutes when I know that it's gonna take me twenty three minutes to even drive to the place, and I should have been in the car seventeen minutes ago.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

那这种所谓的高效到底是怎么体现的呢？

So how is this a function of this pseudo productivity?

其实吧，我们写的不是待办清单。

Well, yeah, we don't write to do lists.

我们写的是愿望清单。

We write wish list.

你再说一遍？

Say that again?

我们以为自己在列当天的待办事项，其实列的是愿望清单。

So we think we're making a to do list for the day, but it's a wish list.

要是今天能把这些全做完，那该多好啊。

It's wouldn't it be great if we got all of these things done today?

然后你就对这个想法着了迷。

And you fall in love with that story.

你会想，要是今天能把这些琐事和电话都搞定，那该多好。

You're like, man, if I got all of these errands done and all these calls, this would be great.

光是想象着把这张清单全部完成，你就觉得特别满足。

And you feel so good about imagining that list being done.

你根本没意识到，你把原本得花三天才能做完的事全塞进了一天里。

You don't realize that you just put three days worth of work onto your plan for the day.

所以我总跟人说，得真真正正地给一天安排好时间块。

It's why I tell people to to actually make a blocked plan for their day.

嗯，行。

Okay.

等一下。

Hold on.

咱们能不能好好聊聊这个‘愿望清单’的问题？

Can we just unpack the wish list thing?

对。

Yeah.

我现在感觉自己被说中了。

I feel very called out right now.

我超爱列待办清单，但说实话，这些其实都是愿望单。

I love making to do lists, but I do think they are wishlists.

而且有个问题是，每当我把所有事情写下来，我就觉得特别满足，因为脑子里不用再一直惦记着了。

And and part of the thing is is that when I write them all down, I write them down and I feel so satisfied because now I don't have anxiety of having to hold it in my brain.

对。

Yeah.

但奇怪的是，卡尔，我总觉得只要写下来了，事情就会自动搞定。

And there is this weird sense, Cal, that simply because I wrote it down, somehow it's gonna magically get done.

是啊。

Yeah.

大家列长清单的时候，都是这么想的吗？

Is this, like, how everybody feels when they make a long to do list?

没错。

Yes.

或者我该现在叫它愿望清单？

Or wish list, I should call it now?

感觉挺好的。

It feels good.

对。

Yes.

但这不是你的错，清单确实不现实。

But it's not your fault that it's unrealistic.

人类的大脑本来就不太擅长预测时间。

It's the human brain is not good at these time predictions.

嗯。

Okay.

估算回邮件要花多久，这根本不是大脑进化出来擅长的事。

Estimating how long it takes to answer for emails is not something our brain evolved to do well.

所以我们特别不擅长估算时间。

So we're really bad at estimating time.

所以我们的大脑就直接说：嘿。

So our brain just says, hey.

要是能把这些事都做完就好了。

It would be great if we did all these things.

这可不是你的错。

It's not our fault.

从人类进化史来看，我们从来没被训练去精确估算这类现代生活中抽象任务所需的时间。

I mean, there's nothing in our history as a species that made us good at fine tuned time estimations of these really abstract things we do in the modern world.

所以我们在这方面真的很不擅长。

So we're really bad at it.

所以我才说，要根据你真实可用的时间来制定计划。

And that's why I say, make a plan with your actual time.

接下来这段时间，我到底要做什么？

What am I doing in this next block of time?

这是深度工作，还是不是深度工作？

Like, is this deep work or is this not deep work?

好的。

K.

如果不是深度工作，那正好。

And if it's not deep work, then great.

我们就回一堆邮件，把各种琐事都处理掉。

Let's let's answer a bunch of emails, get a bunch of errands done.

干脆把这些事集中在一起处理。

In fact, let's batch that together.

对。

Yep.

如果我们注定要来回切换，那就干脆切换个痛快。

If we're going be bouncing all around, let's bounce all around.

把它们都集中起来处理。

Let's consolidate that.

如果是深度工作，我的原则很简单。

If it's deep work, though, my rules are simple.

完全不能分心。

No distractions at all.

一旦我给这段时间标好标签，就一清二楚了。

So once I've labeled this block of time and I'll be clear.

这段时间有多长，就这么定下来。

Here's how long this block of time goes.

我会把一整天的时间都安排好。

I block out my day.

这回就定九十分钟。

So this is going be ninety minutes.

不管是一个小时、两个小时，反正按安排的时间来。

It's going to be one hour, two hours, whatever the block is.

在这段时间里，绝对不能有干扰，也就是说，我的注意力只能集中在当前正在做的事上。

There will be no distractions during that time, which means I don't want my attention to shift to anything other than the thing I'm working on right now.

不能看邮件，不能接电话，也不能到处乱跑。

So no email, no phone, no jumping

你关上笔记本电脑了吗？

on the your you do you shut your laptop?

如果我在用笔记本电脑工作，就绝不会做别的事情。

Or if I'm working on my laptop, I'm not doing anything else on it.

明白了。

Okay.

那你真能对自己有信心吗？

Now now You can trust yourself for that?

我觉得很多人会说，好吧。

Because I think a lot of us will say, okay.

我准备开始干活了。

I'm about to do some work here.

结果刚一打开，就忍不住想看看有没有新消息。

And then you flip it over, and you're oh, maybe I just check the message to see if anything came in.

时间长了就习惯了。

You get used to it.

这其实是一种训练。

It's a training.

我不是那个意思。

I don't

你说的‘适应’是什么意思？

What do you mean you get used to

啊？

it?

这其实是可以练习的。

You can actually practice this.

那我该怎么练呢？

And I How the hell am I gonna practice this?

我以前带别人这么练过。

I've done this with people before.

我们管这叫间歇训练。

We call it interval training.

这确实没错。

And this is true.

真的很有道理。

This really

你是在说我要为我的肌肉、腹部肌肉和二头肌做训练，卡尔。

doing this for my muscles and my my stomach muscles and my biceps, Cal.

你是说我的大脑也得做间歇训练？

You're saying I gotta do interval training for my brain?

情况已经糟糕到这种地步了？

That's how bad it's gotten?

你在这上面得到的成效，可能会超过你练肌肉的间歇训练。

You'll get better results than you probably will do an interval training for your muscles.

对吧？

Right?

因为我们的大脑可是非常宝贵的。

Because, like, our mind is very valuable.

我确实跟别人这么做过。

And I actually do this with people.

我以前也跟本科生这么练过。

I've done this with undergraduates before

行。

K.

他们一开始注意力全都是分散的。

Who have been completely distraction riddled.

但到了学期末，我能让他们一坐就是九十分钟，完全专注。

And by the end of a semester, I can get them locked in for ninety minutes at a time.

或者，Cal，你帮帮我。

Or or Cal, help me out here.

其实就这么简单。

Here's all it is.

好吧。

Okay.

我们先从二十分钟开始。

We start with, let's say, twenty minute interval.

你要专心做这个需要高度集中注意力的任务，比如学习、写作、看书，或者别的什么。

You're gonna focus on this cognitive demanding task, studying or writing or reading a book or whatever.

交账单。

Paying your bills.

是的。

Yeah.

二十分钟。

Twenty minutes.

这事儿得是需要专注的，你得设个计时器。

It's gotta be something that requires focus, and you're gonna set a timer.

如果你走神去干别的，比如瞄一眼手机，或者切换到网页标签什么的，就得把计时器停下，重新开始。

And if you wander off and do something else, if you glance at that phone or you go to an Internet tab or what have you, you got to stop that timer and start it over.

真的吗？

Really?

是的

Yeah.

好的

Okay.

现在大多数人能做到，因为你有这个后果。

Now most people can do that because you have this consequence.

有点尴尬。

It's kind of embarrassing.

你会想，我二十分钟总能坚持吧。

You're like, I can do twenty minutes.

好的

Okay.

我知道我特别想看手机，但二十分钟我还是能撑住的。

I know I really want to check my phone, but twenty minutes I can do.

好的

Okay.

对吧？

Right?

你就这样不断练习，直到不再觉得困难，心里也不会再抗拒了。

So you you practice that until it's no longer so difficult, not your mind isn't rebelling.

好的。

Alright.

我能问你个问题吗？

Can I ask you a question?

当然。

Yeah.

大概要连续多少天，人才能开始建立起这种能力？

How long like, how many days in a row does it take for somebody to start to build this muscle?

两个星期。

Two weeks.

两个星期。

Two weeks.

就是这样

That's what

我也有同感。

I've noticed.

为什么是两周？

Why two weeks?

这是我通过实际观察得出的结论。

That's just what I've noticed empirically.

对。

Yeah.

坚持两周，通常就会感觉轻松多了。

Two weeks, you're usually pretty comfortable.

然后你再增加十分钟。

And then you add ten minutes.

那加起来就是三十分钟了？

So then it becomes 30?

那就变成三十分钟了。

It becomes 30.

然后你再这样坚持两周。

And you do that for another two weeks.

对。

Yeah.

接着就变成四十分钟了。

And then it becomes 40.

对。

Yeah.

根据你的研究，单次专注工作的时间有没有一个推荐的上限？

And is there a certain amount of time that based on your research is kind of the maximum amount of time you should work in in a time block?

我知道你大脑的耐力很强，但我这儿呢，就像一堆松垮的肉在晃悠，耐力没那么好。

Like, I realize you got a big muscle in terms of your brain, but I got, like, meat flabs up here waving in the wind, and so mine's not that strong.

所以，你建议普通人做这种深度工作的时间块，最多能到多久？

Like but is there, like, a limit to how much you would recommend somebody do these time blocks for deeper work?

目标是九十分钟。

Ninety minutes would be the goal.

九十分钟才是目标。

Ninety minutes is the goal.

我就是让别人朝这个标准努力。

That's where I had people aiming.

如果你能专注地读一本书、写东西，或者思考商业策略整整九十分钟，还不容易分心，那已经非常不错了。

If you can do ninety minutes and you're pretty comfortable reading a book or writing or working on a business strategy for ninety minutes, you're pretty comfortable not going to distraction, that's very good.

真厉害。

Wow.

然后就得休息一下。

And then take a break.

这话说得对。

Well, that's true.

如果你每天都能完成九十分钟的专注工作，那可能比你八小时里东一榔头西一棒子干的还多。

Because if you could get ninety minutes of focus work done every day, that's probably more that you do in eight hours being distracted.

一天中有没有哪个时间段更容易集中注意力？

Is there a particular time of day where it's easier to focus?

大多数人觉得早上比较好。

Most people, it's morning.

也有人声称晚上效率更高。

There are people who claim evening is better.

但这些人通常没有孩子。

They tend not to have kids.

这是我观察到的情况。

This has been my observation.

那些人会说，确实如此。

They've the the people who say, yeah.

我喜欢半夜到凌晨四点工作，那会儿最安静，一般都没孩子。

I like midnight to four in the morning is when I get my work done Typically don't have kids.

唯一的例外是小说家布兰登·桑德森，他常常工作到凌晨三四点，然后睡到中午。

The one exception is the novelist Brandon Sanderson who will work until three or four in the morning and then sleep till noon.

但这可不是个长久之计。

But that's not exactly a very sustainable plan.

对大多数人来说，早上一醒来就是状态最好的时候。

But for most people, first thing in the morning, like, that's when their energy is the highest.

那时候注意力也最集中。

That's when their focus is the highest.

他们趁大脑还有力气的时候，先处理最重要的事。

They use the brain muscle early when it's strong.

到了下午，再处理那些不需要太多脑力的，比如回邮件、跑腿之类的。

And then in the afternoon, you can use it for the stuff that doesn't require the strength, the emails, the errands, etcetera.

那你平时会列待办事项清单吗，卡尔？

So do you ever make a to do list wishlist thing, Cal?

不会。

No.

不过我会用别的办法让自己心里踏实下来。

But here's what I I do to get the the mental relief.

好的。

Okay.

我所有要做的事都会记在某个地方。

I keep everything I need to do written down somewhere.

好的。

Okay.

但我不会把它当成当天的计划。

But I don't treat it as a plan for the day.

这真是改变人生的做法。

Oh, this is life changing.

是的。

Yeah.

把让你心烦的所有事情都记下来，这样心里才会轻松。

So keep all of the stuff that's causing you agita written down somewhere because that gives you mental relief.

这非常关键。

Oh, it's critical.

没错。

Yeah.

时间管理领域里其实有个完整的理念。

There's there's a whole idea in the time management world.

是的。

Uh-huh.

有个人叫戴维·艾伦。

There's a guy named David Allen.

当然。

Of course.

对。

Yeah.

他提出了这么一个想法。

And and he had this idea.

他管这叫全面收集。

He called it full capture.

好的。

K.

这是他的观点，但我完全照着做。

So it's his idea, but I live by it.

他的核心理念是：所有你该做的事，都得写下来，不是大部分，而是每一件，这样你就能获得巨大的心理放松。

And it full captures this idea if everything we need to do is written down somewhere, not most things, but everything, you get huge mental relief.

因为他的理论认为，任何你心里记着却没写下来的责任，大脑就得一直维持着它。

Because his theory is anything that you've you're obligated to do that's only in your head, your brain has to keep that alive.

这就像是脑子里开着一堆没关的标签页。

It's like the tabs are open upstairs.

对。

Yeah.

他管这叫‘未完成的循环’。

He calls it open loops.

大脑得一直维持着这些循环，这会消耗心理能量，带来一点压力。

It's gotta keep the loop going, and that is going to use mental energy and be a little bit source of stress.

我觉得，至少对我来说，之所以忙碌到了临界点，就是因为脑子里开着太多未关闭的任务。

Well, I feel like part of the reason why, at least for me, the busyness has hit this critical thing is because of the number of open tabs.

这跟我在你这儿学到的有关——就是涌入的信息量太大了。

And that has to do, because I'm learning from you, with the amount of input that's coming in.

我总觉得自己得像个杂技演员一样，不停地抛接越来越多的盘子。

And my sense of obligation that I'm somehow supposed to be like a juggler handling more and more plates in the air.

所以，列个愿望清单来减轻心理负担、关闭一些任务，对你腾出空间去做深度工作和慢速高效至关重要。

So the act of creating a wish list to lighten the mental load and close some of these tabs is critically important for your ability to create the space to do more of the deep work and slow productivity.

我想念一段你书里的话，你提到要按自然节奏工作。

You know, I wanna read to you from this part of your book where you talk about working at a natural pace.

在第115页。

It's on page 115.

我们没日没夜、没完没了地硬撑，这种疲惫感其实比我们想象的更随意。

Our exhausting tendency to grind without relief hour after hour, day after day, month after month is more arbitrary than we recognize.

确实，很多人有老板或客户提要求，但他们并不总是决定我们每天的具体安排。

It's true that many of us have bosses or clients making demands, but they don't always dictate the details of our daily schedules.

往往正是我们自己的焦虑，扮演了最严苛的任务下达者。

It's often our own anxieties that play the role of the fiercest taskmaker.

我们之所以承受着不切实际的时间表和混乱的工作量，是因为内心深处害怕停下脚步，逃离那种让人麻木的忙碌疲惫。

We suffer from overly ambitious timelines and poorly managed workloads due to a fundamental uneasiness with ever stepping back from the numbing exhaustion of jittery busyness.

卡尔，我很想听听你对这一点的看法，因为如果你从事某些类型的工作，想要按自然节奏做事，感觉根本不可能。

I'd love to have you, Cal, talk about that because working at a natural pace doesn't feel like it's accessible if you work in certain times jobs.

你明白我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

比如你在医院工作，或者在大公司里，整天都是Zoom会议，根本没时间做正事，这种情况下，你有什么建议能帮人从工作中抢回一点时间？在学校里也是一样，感觉时间完全不够用的时候该怎么办？

Like if you're in a hospital, if you're in a big company and they have Zoom meetings all day long and you have no time to get work done, what are your recommendations for how you pull back time when you feel like you just don't have time at work or at school?

我注意到一点，我们常常以为别人想要的是即时响应和随时可及。

Well, one thing I've noticed is we often think people want accessibility and immediacy.

我们觉得上司希望你越快把事情做完越好。

We think what our bosses want is you to do this thing as quickly as possible.

他们希望你立刻回复，马上回信，尽快把事情搞定。

They want you to answer me as soon as possible, get back to me as soon as possible, do this thing as soon as possible.

但实际上，他们真正想要的并不是这个。

The reality is that's not really what they want.

他们想要的是你去解决他们面临的这个问题。

What they want is you to take care of this problem that exists for them.

对吧？

Right?

所以，这件事在他们心里是个负担。

So here's this thing that's on their mind as a source of stress.

他们希望这个压力消失，也希望你能帮他们把这个压力消除。

They want that stress to go away, and they want you to help them make that stress go away.

这其实就是双方之间真正的交换关系。

Like, this is the transaction that's happening.

明白。

Mhmm.

如果他们觉得你做事有条理，能按时完成承诺的事，靠得住，从不掉链子。

If they trust that you have your act together, so if you're organized, if you deliver when you say you're gonna deliver, you're reliable, you never drop the ball.

当他们把事情交给你的时候，他们的压力就没了。

When they pass something on to you, their stress goes away.

知道吗，Mel会把这事办妥的。

Know, Mel's gonna get this done.

她特别有条理。

She's really organized.

我信得过她。

I trust her.

她从不掉链子。

She never drops the ball.

你不一定非得马上做这件事。

It's not so important that you do it right away.

关键是，你接下这事儿，我就知道你肯定能搞定，压力自然就没了。

It's just that you've taken the stress away because I know you're gonna get it done.

所以，只要你有条理、靠得住的名声，就不必非得立刻动手。

So if you have a reputation of being organized and on the ball, you don't have to do things immediately.