让他们去：如何应对难搞的人，夺回你的平静与力量

嘿。

Hey.

我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。

It's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

你们能来我特别开心，因为今天我们要聊的是我最喜欢的话题——人际关系。

I am so excited you're here because today, you and I are gonna talk about my favorite topic, relationships.

而且我们还要从一个全新的角度来深入探讨“让他们理论”。

And we're also gonna dig into the Let Them Theory in a brand new way.

我特别喜欢“让他们理论”。

I love the Let Them Theory.

我很高兴，短短一年里，超过1100万人读了这本书。

I love the fact that more than 11,000,000 of you have read this book in just one year.

它就像一根救命稻草。

It is a lifeline.

它给了你们更多的力量和内心的平静。

It has given you so much more power and peace.

它帮你改善了人际关系。

It has helped you have better relationships.

今天我要回答自从写了这本书以来，我被问到最多的一个问题。

And I'm going to be answering the single biggest question that I have been asked since writing this book.

这个问题被问到的次数比其他任何问题都多得多，那就是——

I get asked this question a hundredfold more than any other question, and it's this.

梅尔，我该怎么把“让他们理论”用在我生活中那些让我担心、让我恼火，或者就是特别难搞的人身上？

Mel, how do I use the let them theory with people in my life that I'm worried about, they frustrate me, or they're just plain freaking difficult?

我到底该怎么办？

What am I supposed to do?

难道我就该让我妈毁了我的生活吗？

I'm supposed to just let my mother ruin my life?

让我儿子在工作上毫无动力吗？

Let my son be unmotivated in his job?

让我伴侣把东西扔得满屋子都是吗？

Let my partner leave their stuff all over the apartment?

让我的朋友总是让我感到内疚？

Let my friend guilt trip me all the time?

不。

No.

你不应该那样做。

You're not supposed to do that.

你有力量。

You have power.

今天，我要教你一个全新的框架。

And today, I'm going to teach you a brand new framework.

我从未在播客中教过这个。

I've never taught this on the podcast.

这是一个简单的框架，你可以在生活中每一个让你感到沮丧、压力大或希望事情有所改变的關係中使用。

It's a simple framework that you're gonna use in every relationship in your life where you're frustrated, stressed out, or you just wish things would change.

如果你厌倦了总是做那个更懂事的人，今天，我会让你变得更聪明。

If you're tired of being the bigger person, today, I'm gonna make you smarter.

我要教你用一个简单的框架和“让他们”理论，来消除压力、摩擦和挫败感，专注于你唯一能控制的那件事。

I'm gonna teach you how to use a simple framework and the Let Them Theory to remove the stress, the friction, and frustration, and focus on the one thing that you can control.

那就是你自己。

You.

你有力量。

You have power.

当你改变我们今天要讨论的那些让你感到沮丧的关系中的事情时，一切都会彻底改变。

And when you change the things we're gonna talk about today in your frustrating relationships, absolutely everything will change.

嘿。

Hey.

我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。

It's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

今天我们的对话让我特别兴奋。

I am so fired up for our conversation today.

我很喜欢聊“让他们”理论，而且我已经一年多没讲过这个理论或者做过相关节目了。

I love talking about the Let Theory, and I have not talked about the Let Them Theory or done an episode on it in over a year.

能和你在一起，共度这段时光，真是我的荣幸。

It's such an honor to be together and to spend this time with you.

如果你是新听众，或者是因为别人分享这期节目才来的，我想花点时间亲自欢迎你加入梅尔·罗宾斯播客大家庭。

And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this episode with you, I just wanna take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

今天，我们要用一种全新的方式来深入探讨“让他们理论”，用你听众们的具体例子，来聊聊他们与所爱之人之间的棘手关系。

Today, you and I are gonna dig into the Let Them Theory in a brand new way using specific examples from your fellow listeners about difficult dynamics with the people that they love.

那些不肯照顾自己的年迈父母，那些无论你怎么做都不对的伴侣和关系，那些总是制造戏剧性冲突的家人。

The aging parents who won't take care of themselves, partners and relationships where you just can't do anything right, The family members who create so much drama.

那个突然变得刻薄，而你却不知道自己做错了什么的朋友。

The friend who is suddenly mean and you don't know what you did.

那些让你感到沮丧、担忧、精疲力尽的人。

The people who leave you frustrated, worried, exhausted.

当你改变处理问题的方式时，你的生活就会立刻变得更好。

Your life gets better the moment you change how you're dealing with the situation.

我们今天就开始这样做。

And we're gonna start doing that today.

当一段关系走不下去的时候，其实两个人都在为这种相处模式添柴加火。

When you're in a relationship that doesn't work, there are two people in the relationship contributing to the dynamic.

相信我，我以前也不爱听这个，因为我自己跟别人处不来的时候，就特别喜欢怪别人。

And trust me, I didn't wanna hear that either because I personally love to blame other people when I'm not getting along with other people.

但也许，只是也许，你那种讨好别人的习惯，正是问题的一部分。

But maybe, just maybe, your people pleasing is part of the problem.

也许你总是小心翼翼、如履薄冰，也在助长这种相处模式。

Maybe walking on eggshells is contributing to the dynamic.

也许你花太多时间在对方身上，这也是问题的一部分。

Maybe giving them too much of your time is part of the problem.

也许你总是为对方的无礼找借口，这才让你留在一段你早该离开的关系里。

Maybe explaining away the disrespect is keeping you in a relationship you need to leave.

也许你从来不敢摊开来说那些难听的话，才让这段关系变得这么难。

Maybe never ever having the hard conversation is what's making the relationship hard.

又或者，也许你总是主动去修补、去努力，盼着事情能有所改变。

Or maybe how often you're showing up and you're trying to make things better, hoping things will change.

这其实也是问题的一部分。

That's actually part of the problem.

那你是不是应该换个策略呢？

Doesn't it make sense that you should change your strategy?

你是不是应该把百分之百的精力放在这段关系里你能改变的那部分，也就是你自己身上？

Shouldn't you focus a 100% of your energy on the part of this relationship dynamic that you can change, which is you?

你看，当你改变自己的态度、方式，或者投入这段关系的时间，或者改变你说话的方式，你就有了主动权，因为你创造了让一切改变的条件。

See, when you change your attitude or your approach or the amount of time you put into the relationship or you change the way you're having conversations, you have the power because you create the conditions for everything to change.

今天我们要聊的是我在所有关系里犯过的三个错误，以及应该怎么做，因为这三个错误很可能你现在就在犯。

And we're gonna talk today about three mistakes that I've made in all of my relationships and what to do instead, because these are three mistakes that you're probably making right now in the situation that you're in.

而且因为你生活中每一段关系和情况都是个人的、不同的，我没有具体细节，我也不是心理治疗师，所以我不会给你具体的建议。

And because every single situation and relationship in your life is personal and different, and I don't have the specific details, and I'm also not a therapist, I'm not gonna give you specific advice.

我要教你一个框架，这个框架在我的关系里帮了我很多。

I'm gonna teach you a framework that has helped me profoundly in my relationships.

这个框架能帮我在具体情况下找到正确的应对方式。

And it's a framework that helps me figure out what the right response is given the specific situation.

这就是你今天要带走的。

And that's what you're gonna leave with today.

好。

Okay.

那我们来说说你在人际关系中犯的第一个错误。

So let's talk about the first of the three mistakes that you're making in relationships with other people.

第一个错误，你期望别人改变。

Mistake number one, you expect someone else to change.

确实。

You do.

这样做是个大错。

And it's a giant mistake to do so.

我会教你一种不同的方式来处理你期望别人改变的情况，我们会通过回答一位名叫特蕾莎的听众的问题来做到这一点。

And I'm gonna teach you a different way to approach situations where you're expecting someone else to change, and we're gonna do it by answering a question from your fellow listener named Teresa.

特蕾莎的工作压力非常大。

Teresa has an incredibly demanding job.

她是个学校行政人员，然后她回到家，就像很多人一样，还要做另一份全职工作，就是照顾她68岁妈妈的健康。

She's a school administrator, and then she comes home like so many people do, and she has another full time job trying to manage the health of her 68 year old mother.

但问题是这样的。

But here's the thing.

她妈妈不听她的话。

Her mother doesn't listen to her.

她妈妈根本不做特蕾莎想让她做的任何事。

Her mother doesn't do any of the things that Teresa wants her to do.

事实上，她妈妈连医生让她好好照顾自己的建议都不听。

In fact, her mother doesn't even do what her doctors are telling her to do to take better care of herself.

当你听的时候，我希望你想的是这个。

And as you listen, here's what I want you to think about.

你生活中有谁让你有这种感觉？

Who in your life does this feel like?

你担心你生活中的谁？

Who in your life are you concerned about?

你生活中有谁是你希望他们能更好地照顾自己的？

Who in your life do you wish would take better care of themselves?

你生活中有谁特别固执，让你压力很大？

Who in your life is just being so stubborn and it's stressing you out?

说实话，可能还让你感到害怕。

And frankly, it might be scaring you.

你好。

Hi.

我妈妈住在我们家院子里的自己的房子里。

My mom lives in her own home on our property.

她有糖尿病。

She has diabetes.

她有肝病。

She has liver disease.

她完全不照顾自己。

She does not take care of herself.

我经常做很多饭，而且都是健康餐，但很多时候她都会让它们浪费掉，然后晚餐吃个鸡腿或者冷冻卷饼之类的。

I cook a lot of meals and healthy meals, but a lot of times she will let them go to waste and eat a drumstick or a frozen burrito or something like that for dinner.

我是唯一住在镇上的孩子，她跟我住在一起。

I am the only child who lives in town, and she lives with me.

我一直在纠结，到底是干脆让她自己待着不管，还是努力去照顾她。

I struggle between essentially just letting her sit there and rot and trying to help care for her.

我会请假带她去看医生，结果她总是在我安排好之后最后一刻取消。

I'll take days off work to take her to the doctor, and she will just cancel at the last minute after I've made the plans to do that.

我爱她，但我不想跟她待在一起。

I love her, but I don't wanna be around her.

她总是那么消极。

She's always so negative.

所以我一边想支持她走出这个低谷，一边又不想在这个过程中迷失自己，这真的很难。

So I am, like, trying to support her in this really dark place that she's at without losing myself in the process, and it's hard.

很喜欢你的建议。

Love your advice.

你知道吗，虽然这个话题很沉重，但真的特别能引起共鸣。

You know, as heavy as that is, it's an incredibly relatable situation.

现在全世界有很多人都在经历类似的情况。

There are so many people around the world that are dealing with this right now.

所以我想先感谢特蕾莎分享了这么私人的问题，还提供了这么多细节，因为我敢打赌，你听她说话的时候，能感受到她的疲惫。

And so I just wanna start by thanking Teresa for sharing such a personal question and giving so many details, because I bet as you heard her speaking, you could hear the exhaustion.

你能听到她的悲伤。

You could hear the sadness.

你能听到她的沮丧，也许你现在也有这种感觉。

You could hear the discouragement, and maybe you feel that right now.

她说的有两件事真的让我印象深刻。

And there were two things that she said that really struck me.

我爱我的妈妈，但我不想和她待在一起。

I love my mom, but I don't wanna be around her.

我想在支持她的同时，不失去自我。

I wanna be able to offer support without losing myself.

这是一个非常私人的情况，如果这种关系模式不改变，后果会很严重。

This is a very personal situation, and there are serious consequences if the dynamic doesn't change.

同样的情况也适用于你或你爱的人正在经历的任何类似问题。

And the same is true with any type of situation like this that you or somebody that you love are dealing with.

因为基本上，你们现在处于一种对峙状态。

Because basically, you're in a standoff.

你和你在乎的这个人处于对峙状态，而且风险非常高。

You're in a standoff with this person that you care about, and the stakes are super, super high.

如果你什么都不改变，什么都不会变。

If you change nothing, nothing changes.

我再说一遍。

I'm gonna say it again.

如果你什么都不改变，什么都不会变。

If you change nothing, nothing changes.

但如果你改变一件事，一切都有可能改变。

But if you change one thing, everything could change.

你能改变的一件事，就是换一种方式去面对，因为你永远改变不了你妈妈。

And the one thing you can change is how you show up differently because you are never gonna change your mother.

所以，我们来聊聊这个全新的框架，好吗？我希望你在任何一段和他人有矛盾的关系里，都能用上它。

And so let's talk about this brand new framework, okay, that I want you to start to use in any relationship where you have an issue with someone else.

这个框架非常简单。

And the framework is very simple.

就是“我”、“我们”和“他们”。

It is me, we, and them.

再说一遍。

Say it again.

“我”、“我们”和“他们”。

Me, we, and them.

在这三种不同的关系层面里——我、我们、他们——我们都会用“让他们理论”来看待。

And in each of these three different things in every relationship, me, we, and them, we're gonna look at using the Let Them Theory.

在“我”这个层面，我能控制什么？

What can I control with me?

在“我们”这个层面，我能控制什么？

What can I control with we?

在“他们”这个层面，我能控制什么？

What can I control with them?

这是为了帮你应对和别人相处的具体情况。

As a way to help you navigate specific situations with other people.

再提醒一下，如果你还不知道“让他们理论”是什么，它其实就是一种界限。

And just to remind you, in case you don't know what the Let Them Theory is, it's just a boundary.

它是世界上最强大的界限。

It's the most powerful boundary in the world.

这个界限能让你立刻看清什么在你掌控之中，什么不在。

It's a boundary that shows you immediately what is in your control and what is not in your control.

那我们先从“我”开始。

So let's start with me.

“我”意味着给自己留出空间。

Me means creating space for yourself.

我希望你每次看我的时候，都专注于积极的一面和进展顺利的事情。

And I want you to focus always when you look at me with the positive and what's going well.

好的。

Alright.

那我来告诉你什么进展顺利吧。

Well, let me tell you what's going well.

给自己一些肯定。

Give yourself some credit.

你是一个非常出色的女儿。

You're an extraordinary daughter.

你妈妈很幸运，身边有你这样一个人，一直关心她、爱她、支持她，即使她一直拒绝。

Your mother is so lucky to have someone in her life who continues to care about her, to love her, to offer support even when she keeps saying no.

所以，这当然会影响到你。

So, of course, this is affecting you.

事实上，我觉得你感到担心、疲惫、沮丧，并且想寻找不同的方法来处理这件事，这恰恰说明你对这个非常困难的处境有着健康的心理反应。

In fact, I think the fact that you're worried and exhausted and frustrated and looking for a different way to approach this is a sign that you're having a mentally healthy response to a very difficult situation.

所以，当你想到我的时候，我希望你考虑的一件事是，给自己留出空间去获得支持，无论是找心理治疗师，还是找合格的心理健康专家，他们都能帮你处理压力，继续讨论这个情况。

And so one of the things that I want you to think about when you think about me is creating space for yourself to get support, whether that's speaking to a therapist or a qualified mental health professional who can help you process the stress and continue to talk through the situation.

或者，也许你有一个很好的朋友，一直在处理同样的事情，或者曾经处理过同样的事情，比如父母或亲人遇到类似的情况。

Or maybe you've got a really good friend who's been dealing with the same thing or has dealt with the same thing with a parent or a loved one.

你不需要独自承担这些情感上的重担，我也不希望你这样做。

You do not need to carry the emotional weight of this by yourself, and I don't want you to.

这就是关于我的部分。

That's the me part.

这是目前进展顺利的地方。

This is what's going well.

这是我现在真正觉得困难的地方。

This is what's really hard for me right now.

好的。

Okay.

很好。

Good.

第二部分，我们。

Second piece, we.

框架中的“我们”部分，现在是你想如何处理这段关系。

The we part of the framework is now what do you want to do about the relationship?

很明显，你想和你妈妈保持关系。

And it's very clear you want to be in a relationship with your mom.

你想看到你妈妈恢复健康。

You want to see your mom get healthy.

如果她愿意接受，你想提供支持，这意味着在这种情况下，“我们”部分意味着要坦诚地谈论这段关系以及它对你的影响。

You want to provide support if she'll accept it, which means in that case, the we part means having an honest conversation about the relationship and how it's impacting you.

这不再是关于你妈妈的另一次谈话。

This is not another conversation about your mother.

这不是关于她需要做什么的谈话。

It's not a conversation about what she needs to do.

这不是关于她应该吃什么或医生说了什么的教训。

It's not a lecture about what she should be eating or what the doctor said.

这是一场关于“我们”的对话，以及“我们”这段关系如何影响你。

This is a conversation about the we and how the we, the relationship, is impacting you.

治疗师特里·里尔在梅尔·罗宾斯的播客里教了我们一个简单的方法来进行这种对话，天哪，就像挥动魔法棒一样神奇。

There's a simple way that therapist Terry Real taught us on the Mel Robbins podcast to have these conversations, and oh my gosh, it's like waving a magic wand.

方法如下。

And here it is.

开始“我们”的对话时，你可以说：妈妈，事情是这样的。

You start out the we conversation by saying, mom, this is what happened.

这是我自己编的故事，这是我需要你做的。

This is the story I'm telling myself, and this is what I need from you.

就这样。

That's it.

妈妈，我想和你谈谈，这不会很容易，但我真的需要告诉你我的感受。

Mom, I'm gonna have a conversation with you, and it's not gonna be an easy one, but I really need to share with you how I'm feeling.

你知道，当我为你做饭而食物被浪费时，当我请假而你又取消预约时，当我看到你被感染折磨时，天哪。

You know, when I cook for you and the food goes to waste, when I take time off of work and you cancel the appointment, when I see you suffering with infections, oh my gosh.

我就是觉得又沮丧又害怕，特别担心事情会变成这样。

Like, I just feel frustrated and scared, and I'm so afraid at where this is headed.

然后我告诉自己一个故事。

And here's the story I'm telling myself.

我告诉自己的故事是，你不想接受帮助。

The story I'm telling myself is you don't want help.

你不想做出改变。

You don't wanna make changes.

我理解得对吗？

Am I understanding this correctly?

你真的是这么觉得的吗？

Is that how you actually feel?

那就别说了。

Then stop talking.

而这就是最难的地方。

And that's the hard part.

别说了，给她空间让她回答。

Stop talking and give her the space to answer.

这就是关系。

This is the relationship.

就像跳舞一样。

It's a dance.

有来有往，因为你可能会感到意外，你不需要给她下任何诊断。

It's back and forth because you might be surprised, and you don't need to diagnose her with anything.

你不需要当她的心理咨询师。

You don't need to be her counselor.

你是在创造空间，让你们俩分享这段关系对你的影响和你需要什么，也给她空间分享她自己的情况。

You're creating space for we, for you to share how this relationship is impacting you and what you need, and for you to give her the space to share what's going on for her.

难就难在，谁知道你妈会说什么呢？

And the hard part is who knows what the hell your mother's gonna say?

她可能会说，我不需要任何帮助，或者她可能会说，我只是害怕。

She might say, I don't want any help, Or she might say, I'm actually just scared.

我确实需要帮助。

I do need help.

然后你下一个问题可能是，那你愿意接受什么样的帮助呢？

And then maybe your next question is, well, what help are you willing to accept?

因为妈妈，我需要你这样做。

Because here's what I need from you, mom.

你让我做什么都行，但我需要你告诉我你愿意做什么，因为这样我才能知道我愿意提供什么样的支持。

I will do whatever you need me to do, but I need you to tell me what you're willing to do because that will show me what support I'm willing to offer.

如果她的回答是，那些事我一样都不想做。

And if her answer is, I don't wanna do any of those things.

我就想坐在这儿吃卷饼。

I just wanna sit here and eat burritos.

那又有什么关系呢？

So what does it matter?

那答案不就出来了嘛。

Well, there's your answer.

这就是答案。

There's your answer.

你可以说，妈妈，你看。

And you could say, mom, look.

我听到了。

I hear you.

我尊重你的身体。

I respect your body.

这是你的选择，我需要退后一大步。

It's your choice, and I need to take a giant step back.

我爱你，我需要尊重你自己的经历。

I love you, and I need to give you the dignity of your own experience.

如果你改变主意，如果你决定不需要帮助，就告诉我。

And if you ever change your mind, if you ever decide that you don't want help, just ask.

我在这里。

I'm here.

我意识到我不能比你更想要这件事，而且我不会再为了强迫你改变而迷失自己。

And I realize I can't want this for you more than you want it for yourself, and I will no longer lose myself trying to force you to change.

我不会再那样做了。

And I'm gonna stop doing that.

现在你明白这段对话有多有力量了吗？

Now do you see how powerful that conversation is?

因为你只是在坦诚而充满爱意地谈论事实。

Because you're just having an honest and loving conversation about what's so.

就是这样。

That's it.

这就是“我们”的部分。

That's the we part.

这是关于我们之间的关系如何影响我。

It's about how this relationship between us is affecting me.

你的感受，那就是“我们”。

How you're feeling, that's the we.

而且通过谈论这件事，那些你一直绕来绕去的事情现在都浮出水面了，事情就变得非常非常清楚了。

And by talking about it, now all the things that you've been kinda dancing around, they come to the surface, and it makes things very, very clear.

然后框架的第三部分来了，就是“他们”。

And then comes the third part of the framework, them.

你必须让他们做自己。

You have to let them.

特蕾莎必须让她妈妈做她想做的事。

Teresa has to let her mother do what she's gonna do.

而且我想把话说清楚。

And I wanna be very clear about something.

“让他们做自己”并不意味着抛弃某人，尤其是当他们无法做出安全决定的时候。

Let them doesn't mean abandoning somebody, especially if they can't make safe decisions.

但如果你妈妈明白情况和后果，她有能力自己做决定，她只是不想改变，她会继续拒绝你提供的健康，而且她会告诉你这一点，那就让她去吧。

But if your mom understands the situations and the consequences and she is capable of making her own decisions and she just doesn't wanna change and she's gonna continue to reject the health you're offering and she'll tell you that, let her.

给她自己经历的权利，也把你自己的人生还给你自己。

Give her the dignity of her own experience and give yourself your life back.

你看，你的任务不是让你妈妈开心或健康。

See, your job is not to make your mother happy or healthy.

你的任务是认清什么是你能控制的，什么是你不能控制的，并且如实说出情况和关系、互动模式对你的影响，为自己感受留出空间。

Your job is to recognize what's in your control and what's not in your control and to tell the truth about how situations and relationships and dynamics are impacting you, to make space for what you're feeling.

然后，当你看清楚事情之后，提供你实际能做到、也愿意提供的支持。

And then once you see things very clearly, to offer support that you can realistically give and that you're willing to give.

这样你才能保护好自己的健康、理智和幸福。

That's how you protect your own health and sanity and well-being.

这样你才能专注于自己能控制的事情。

That's how you focus on what's in your control.

当你这样做的时候，你看到整个互动模式的变化了吗？

And when you act that way, do you see how the whole dynamic changes?

你可以让你妈妈自己做选择。

You can let your mom make her choices.

改变的是你。

You're the one that changed.

当你改变时，整个互动模式都会变，不是因为你的母亲变了，而是因为你变了。

And when you change, everything about the dynamic changes, not because your mother changed, but because you did.

而最棒的是，你不再为她的决定负责，也不用承担那些决定带来的后果。

And the greatest part of this is you no longer carry the responsibility for her decisions, and you don't carry the consequences that come with them.

那是她的事。

She does.

这个框架真的能帮你分清什么是我的事。

And this framework really helps you navigate what's mine?

那是我。

That's me.

什么是我们的事。

What's ours?

那是我们。

That's we.

什么是你的事。

And what's yours?

那是他们的。

That's them.

而这正是能帮助你在处理事情时更有效、同时不迷失自我的关键。

And that is what's gonna help you be more effective about how you approach things without losing yourself in the process.

我想再引入一个问题，这个问题来自一位听众，他正在为生活中某个没有动力改变的人而苦恼。

I wanna bring in another question, and this one comes from a listener who's struggling with someone in their life who is not motivated to change.

他们非常担心那个人，也对这种情况感到沮丧，我敢保证，你会在这个问题中看到自己或你爱的人的影子。

And they're very worried about them and frustrated with the situation, and I guarantee you, you are gonna see someone or someone you love in this question.

所以，千万别走开。

So do not go anywhere.

我们回来后，会一起拆解这个问题，并继续深入探讨这个框架。

We're gonna unpack that question and keep digging into this framework when we return.

请继续收听。

Stay with me.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

我是你的朋友，梅尔·罗宾斯。

It's your buddy, Mel Robbins.

今天，我们要用一种全新的方式来探讨人际关系和“让他们理论”，我要教你一个我从未在这个播客里讲过的全新框架——“我、我们、他们”，以及如何用它来改变任何一段不顺利的人际关系。

Today, you and I are digging into relationships and the Let Them Theory in a whole new way, and I'm teaching you a brand new framework I've never taught on this podcast, me, we, and them, and how to use it to change any dynamic with another person that's just not working.

休息之前，我们聊到了我在人际关系中犯过的第一个错误，也是你也会犯的，那就是期待别人改变。

Before the break, we were talking about the first mistake that I've made that you make in relationships, and that's expecting other people to change.

相反，我希望你期待自己改变。

Instead, I want you to expect the change of yourself.

这就引出了听众特里提出的一个问题，她正为其中一个成年儿子感到困扰，这个儿子在职业方面非常缺乏动力。

And that brings me to a question that we got from your fellow listener, Terry, who is struggling with one of her adult sons who is really unmotivated when it comes to his career.

问题如下。

Here's the question.

梅尔，我有两个儿子，一个30岁，一个27岁，他们都因为感情破裂回到了家里。

Mel, I have two boys, 30 and 27, who have both come home after broken relationships.

我27岁的儿子干着一份没前途的工作，也没什么上进心，而我30岁的儿子在政府部门工作，一门心思扑在事业上。

My 27 year old works a dead end job and has no ambition, while my 30 year old has a career in government and is fixated on where he needs to be.

我和我丈夫该怎么跟我小儿子沟通呢？

How can my husband and I get through to our youngest?

我们很担心他以后不会有什么出息。

We're very concerned he won't ever be successful.

他不听我们的，我需要一些指导。

He won't listen to us, and I need some guidance.

我很喜欢这个问题，因为我们每个人身边都有那么一个想激励的人。

I love this question because every one of us has somebody in our life that we're trying to motivate.

我们能看到他们的潜力，但他们就是不听我们的。

We can see their potential, but they won't listen to us.

那我们就来看看这个框架。

So let's go to our framework.

我、我们和他们，先从“我”开始。

Me, we, and them, and let's start with me.

而且我总想让你从做得好的地方开始。

And I always want you to start with what's going well.

对吧？

Okay?

所以我觉得从个人角度来看，做得很好的一点是你儿子回家了。

So I think personally what's going really well is that your son came home.

这挺不错的。

That's pretty cool.

挺不错的是他这么爱你和你丈夫，他觉得在你们身边很安全，所以在经历一次痛苦的分手后，他回家寻求支持。

That's pretty cool that he loves you and your husband so much, and he feels safe with you that he came home for support after a devastating breakup.

我还觉得你儿子在这个经济环境下还能有工作，这也很棒，这就引到了我做得不太好的那部分。

I also think it's great that your son is working in this economy, and that brings me to the me part that's not going so well.

他的感情结束了。

His relationship's ended.

他27岁了，还跟父母住在一起。

He's living with his parents, and he's 27.

他现在的工作挣得比他弟弟少。

He's working at a job where he makes less money than his brother.

他觉得自己不如弟弟成功。

He feels less successful than his brother.

现在你想知道还有什么不顺心的事吗？

And now you wanna know what else isn't going well?

他的父母也在评判他。

His parents are also judging him.

你看，

And look.

我理解。

I get it.

你担心他，这让你心里很难受，你也在想未来会怎样。

You're worried about him, and it's kinda eating you up, and you're thinking about the future.

但担心很容易变成评判，而你儿子真正需要的是安慰和支持，因为他正在自我否定。

But it's really easy to have the worry flip into judgment when what your son really needs is reassurance and support because he's judging himself.

这就带我们进入第二部分，我们。

And that brings us to the second part, we.

在一段关系中，你可以带来评判，也可以带来鼓励。

In a relationship, you can bring judgment or you can bring encouragement.

你可以带来对某人改变的期待，也可以带来对他们现状的接纳。

You can bring the expectation that somebody changes or you can bring an acceptance for where they are.

现在，当你进行这次对话时，我最想提醒你的是这个。

Now when you have this conversation, here's what I really wanna caution you about.

我特别想提醒你，不要把他和他的哥哥作比较。

I would really caution you around comparing him to his older brother.

没有两个兄弟姐妹是完全一样的。

No two siblings are the same people.

没有两个兄弟姐妹走的是同一条路。

No two siblings have the same path.

没有两个兄弟姐妹注定要过同一种生活。

No two siblings are meant for the same kind of life.

而且当你拿一个孩子跟另一个比，觉得一个比另一个成功时，这不仅会在他们之间制造矛盾，你还在针对那个没按你期望的方式生活的孩子制造评判。

And when you compare one of your kids to another and you consider one of your kids more successful than the other, it not only creates friction in their relationship, you're now creating judgment aimed at the person who's not doing life the way you want them to do life.

而能把人推开的，就是评判和比较。

And the one thing that will push someone away is judgment and comparison.

所以，就让他去吧。

So let him.

让他做你不喜欢的工作。

Let him be in a job you don't like.

让他跟你住在一起。

Let him live with you.

你当然可以定规矩，规定他得为家里做什么贡献，以及他跟你住的条件和期限。

And you can certainly make rules around what he's gotta contribute to the house and the terms and conditions under which he lives with you and for how long.

但我真正想让你关注的是，你在这段关系、这个“我们”里所持的态度。

But the one thing I want you to really focus on is the attitude that you're bringing to this dynamic, to the relationship, to the we.

你能拥有的最强大的态度就是鼓励，相信你儿子会自己搞明白的。

The single most powerful attitude you can have is encouragement, The belief that your son is gonna figure this out.

相信你的儿子有他自己的路要走。

The belief that your son is on a path of his own.

相信你的儿子能按自己的方式取得成功。

That your son can become successful on his terms.

接下来是怎么跟他谈，公式就是：这是正在发生的事情。

Here's how you have the conversation, and the formula is this is what's happening.

这是我自己编的故事，这是我需要的。

This is a story I'm telling myself, and this is what I need.

在这种情况下，听起来可能有点像这样：嘿。

And in this case, it might sound a little something like, hey.

你知道，我看你经历了很多。

You know, I see you have gone through a lot.

我甚至都没问过你。

I haven't even asked you.

你还好吗，伙计？

How are you doing with all this, buddy?

感情破裂、搬回家和我们住、还有一份你明显不喜欢的工作，这些确实很难承受。

It's a lot to have your relationship blow up and to move home with us and to be in a job that, you know, I can tell you don't really like it.

不过，我一直在心里跟自己说，你被困住了，你没有动力，而且你觉得自己搞不定。

You know, here's the story I've been telling myself, though, that you're stuck and you're not motivated and, you know, you're not gonna figure it out.

而我现在需要的是——

And here's what I need.

我需要向你道歉。

I need to apologize.

我需要为那些可能让你觉得不舒服、觉得我在评判你的地方道歉。

I need to apologize for what probably feels kinda crappy, that it feels like I'm judging you.

我想让你知道，我相信你一定能搞定，我知道你有自己的节奏，我也知道你一定会按照自己的方式和时间取得成功。

And I want you to know, I know you're gonna figure it out, and I know you're on your own timeline, and I know that you are gonna be successful on your own terms and your own time.

我只是想让你知道，我们相信你。

And I just wanna acknowledge that we believe in you.

这就是我们相信你的意思。

That's the we.

你看到那一场对话如何改变了一切吗？

Do you see how that one conversation shifts everything?

然后来到这个框架的第三部分：他们。

Then comes the third part of the framework, them.

让他们去。

Let them.

让他们自己解决。

Let them figure it out.

他27岁了。

He's 27 years old.

他还有五十年、六十年，甚至七十年的生活要过，而且他不会永远待在这份工作上。

He's got another fifty, sixty, or seventy years to live, and he's not gonna be in this job forever.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

即使他真的待着，那又怎样？

Even if he is, so what?

如果你不再评判和施压，让你的儿子自己去摸索，而是开始说一些像‘嘿’这样的话。

And if you stop judging and pressuring your son to be motivated and just let him figure it out, and if you start saying things like, hey.

我知道你有能力把自己的生活安排好。

I know you're capable of figuring your life out.

嘿。

Hey.

我为你感到骄傲，因为你意识到自己需要支持，并且搬回了家。

I'm proud of you for recognizing that you need support, and you moved home.

嘿。

Hey.

你有工作，这很好。

It's great that you have a job.

这有助于减轻生活开销。

It's helping offset the cost of living.

人们只有在愿意为自己努力改变时，才会真正改变。

People change when they're willing to do the work to change for themselves.

而当他最终决定要改变时，你想知道好消息吗？

And when he finally does decide that he wants to change, you wanna know the good news?

他能把在这份工作中培养的所有技能和经验都带走，因为根本不存在没有出路的工作，绝对没有。

He's gonna be able to take all the skills and experiences that he's developed in this job with him because there is no such thing as a dead end job, period.

所有工作都有价值。

All work has value.

每份工作都能教你技能。

Every job teaches you skills.

每份工作都能让你积累经验。

Every job is a job you can gain experience in.

而这让我回到了你需要改变的那一点，这一点可能改变一切。

And that brings me back to the one thing that you need to change that could change everything.

开始表现得好像你相信你儿子会自己搞定这件事，然后让他自己去搞定。

Start acting as if you believe your son is gonna figure this out, and then let him figure it out.

因为如果你在他所在的地方赋予他力量，你就是在抬举他，让他自我感觉更好。

Because if you empower him where he's at, you'll be lifting him up and making him feel better about himself.

当一个人自我感觉更好的时候，他们往往会做得更好。

And when someone feels better about themselves, they tend to do better.

你看，这两个例子说明你的生活不必等着别人改变。

See, these two examples prove your life doesn't have to wait for someone else to change.

当你改变处理问题的方式时，你的生活就会变好，而且现在就可以开始。

Your life will get better when you change how you're dealing with the situation, and that's starting right now.

因为正如你正在学习的，也是我一直在重复的，你无法改变别人的行为。

Because as you're learning and as I keep repeating, you can't change what someone else does.

所以别再指望他们改变，而是要求自己改变。

So stop expecting them to change and demand the change of yourself.

因为当你改变对待事情的方式，一切都会随之改变。

Because when you change your approach to the situation, that changes everything.

好的。

All right.

接下来我们进入第二个错误，这个错误会给你所爱的人带来各种压力和烦恼。

Let's jump in to mistake number two that is causing all kinds of stress and frustration with the people that you love.