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嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
今天，我要请你做一件我以前从未做过的事。
Today, I'm gonna ask you to do something I have never done before.
我要请你自私一点。
I'm gonna ask you to be selfish.
你看，有一个项目、一个目标，或者某件对你来说很重要的事，你就是找不到时间去做。
See, there's a project or a goal or there's something important to you that you just can't seem to find the time to get to.
也许你想写一本书，或者终于拿到认证，成为一名瑜伽教练，又或者取得EMT执照。
Maybe you wanna write a book or finally get that certification and become a yoga instructor or the license to be an EMT.
又或者，你家里的某个衣柜或房间，你一直打算整理，又或者你计划去看望住在国家另一端的朋友。
Or perhaps there's a closet or a room in your house that you know you've been meaning to clean out or plans to go see that friend that lives across the country.
你已经谈论这件事一年了，或者你需要为父母完成去年旅行时拍的相册。
You've been talking about it for a year, or you need to get that photo album done for your parents from the trip that you guys took last year.
你总能找到借口，说为什么自己做不到。
There's always an excuse why you can't get it done.
好吧，从现在开始这一切将改变，因为今天我有一个使命。
Well, that's gonna change right now because today I have one mission.
我想在你内心点燃一团篝火。
I wanna light a bonfire inside you.
所以，无论你拖延了多久，找了多少借口，当你听完或看完今天的内容时，你一定会开始行动。
So no matter how long you have been putting this thing off or how many excuses you've made, by the time you're done listening or watching today, you will be getting started.
是时候停止躲藏，开始引领、创造，过上更宏大、更勇敢的生活了。
It is time for you to stop hiding and start leading, creating, and living a bigger, bolder life.
嘿，我是你的朋友梅尔，欢迎收听梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
我非常期待我们今天的对话。
I am so excited for our conversation today.
我很高兴你在这里。
I'm excited that you're here.
能与你相聚，共度这段时光，我一直深感荣幸。
It's always an honor to be together and to get to spend this time with you.
如果你是新听众，或者因为有人分享了这期节目而来到这里，我想花一点时间，亲自欢迎你加入梅尔·罗宾斯播客大家庭。
And if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this episode with you, I just wanna take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.
天哪，你选中了一期极其精彩的节目，因为你即将见到我的导师之一——独一无二的赛斯·戈丁。
And holy cow, you have picked one heck of an episode because you're about to meet one of my mentors, the one and only Seth Godin.
在过去十五年里，我读过赛斯写的每一篇文章。
For the past fifteen years, I have been reading absolutely everything that Seth has written.
他已出版了二十多本畅销书。
He's written more than 20 bestselling books.
他被誉为现代营销之父。
He's considered the godfather of modern marketing.
但对我来说，他的作品对我至关重要，教会了我如何停止逃避，开始领导、创造，并过上更宏大、更勇敢的生活。
But to me, his work has been pivotal in teaching me how to stop hiding and how to start leading, creating, and living a bigger, bolder life.
今天，赛斯来到我们在波士顿的演播室，为你做他多年来为我做过的事——帮助你认清什么才是真正重要的，更重要的是，教你如何克服阻力、压力、噪音、恐惧、自我怀疑和借口，最终付诸行动，成为更好的自己。
Seth is in our Boston studios today to do for you what he has done for me for decades, to help you identify what is truly important to you, and more importantly, teach you how to push through the resistance, the tension, the noise, the fear, the self doubt, the excuses, and finally, do the thing and become a better version of yourself.
请和我一起欢迎非凡的赛斯·戈丁来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Please help me welcome the extraordinary Seth Godin to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
塞斯·戈丁，欢迎来到梅尔·罗宾斯播客。
Seth Godin, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
梦想成真。
Dream come true.
谢谢你邀请我，梅尔。
Thank you for having me, Mel.
这真是梦想成真，因为除了你之外，我再也没见过谁让我一说话就差点哭出来。
It's a dream come true because more than anyone else I'm I'm gonna start crying when we're talking.
除了你之外，没有人更教会我如何克服恐惧和抗拒，把作品带到这个世界。
More than anyone else, you have really taught me how to overcome fear and resistance and put art out into the world.
你教会了我关于如何影响他人、沟通、营销以及拥有勇气的一切。
You have taught me everything I know about how I think about making an impact with people and communicating and marketing and having courage.
我真的很自豪你在这里，因为我们的公司One Four Three Studios和这个播客，都是由你的学生运营的。
And I'm really proud that you're here because our company, one four three Studios, and this podcast is run by people who are students of yours.
我迫不及待想看到这场对话对每一位听众、每一位观看者产生的影响。
I can't wait to see the impact that this conversation has on absolutely anyone and everyone that listens to it, that watches it.
我的使命是，让我们共同在某人的灵魂中点燃一团烈火。
It is my mission that together we ignite a bonfire inside someone's soul.
他们不仅聆听，还会付诸行动。
And they not just listen, but they do something with it.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
衡量我工作成效的标准，不是我教了别人什么，而是他们教会了别人什么。
One of the measures of my work is not what happens if I teach somebody, it's what they teach other people.
你已经影响了数以百万计的人，能和你同处一室，我感到无比激动。
And you have taught so many millions of people, and it's just a thrill to be in the same room with you.
好吧。
Alright.
我想我们开始吧。
I think I let's do this.
好了。
There we go.
正如你所说，让我们制造一些动静吧。
As you say, let's make a ruckus.
如果我认真对待你即将教给我和此刻正在聆听和观看的人的一切，我的生活会有什么不同呢？
What could be different about my life if I take everything to heart that you're about to teach and share with me today and the person who's listening and watching right now?
会发生什么改变？
What could change?
你知道吗，想想你所处的任何情况，无论是在工作还是在家，有没有什么办法能让它变得更糟？
You know, if you think about whatever situation you're in, whether it's at work or at home, is there anything you could do to make it worse?
有没有什么你对自己讲的故事，或者你采取的行动，会让情况变得更糟？
Is there anything you could tell yourself a story you could tell yourself or an act you could accomplish that would make it worse?
我想我们都能同意，答案当然是有的。
And I think we can all agree the answer is, of course.
那么，以此类推，也一定有一些方法能让情况变得更好。
Well, by that measure, then there are things you can do to make it better.
你可以通过有意识地选择一种策略来让情况变得更好。
And you can make it better by choosing intentionally a strategy.
也许我们可以重新塑造我们对自己讲述的故事，不再做受害者或现有体系中的一颗螺丝钉，而是构建一种具有创造性的模式，为关心的人带来更好的改变。
And maybe we can rewire the story we're telling ourselves and not be a victim or a cog in an existing system, but build something that's generative and makes things better for people who care.
这听起来可能要求很高，但如果我们几乎不费力气就能让事情变得更糟，那么我们也很可能让事情变得更好。
And that might sound like a tall order, but if we can make things worse much without hardly any effort, we can probably make things better as well.
我从未这样想过。
I've never really thought about it that way.
确实如此。
That is true.
比如，如果你真的仔细思考这个问题：我怎样才能让自己的生活变得更糟？
Like, if if you just really ponder that question, how could I make my life worse?
我能想出一百件今天就能让生活变得更糟的事。
I could come up with a 100 things that would make it way worse today.
是的。
Yeah.
然而，我们却很少停下来思考，还有无数种方式可以让你的生活、工作和人际关系变得更好。
And yet we do not really stop and think about the endless ways that you could make your life, your work, your relationships better.
考虑到你教导过这么多人，你的工作影响了这么多人，仅仅是为了为某人打开可能性的视野，人们在采纳了我们即将深入探讨的这些理念后，究竟在哪些方面改善了自己的生活？
Given how many people you have taught, given how many people who have been impacted by your work, just to open up the aperture of possibility for somebody, what are some of the wide ranging things that people have made better by embracing so many of the concepts that we're about to dig into today?
很容易只去指数字，比如你的组织增长了多少，规模有多大，但我认为一切都要从家庭开始。
It's tempting to just, you know, point to numbers and what did you grow, how big was your organization, but I think it all starts at home.
一切始于我们醒来时脑海中听到的第一声噪音，也始于我们睡前对在乎的人说的最后一句话。
It all starts with the first noise we hear in our head when we wake up and the last thing we say to someone we care about when we go to bed.
而这一切都源于我们讲给自己听的故事。
And all of that is fueled by the story we tell ourselves.
是受害者的故事，还是建筑师的故事。
The story of being a victim or the story of being an architect.
是告诉自己：那个人，就在桌子对面的那个人，在当时的处境下，他已经尽了全力。
The story of saying, that person, that one right across the table from me, under the circumstances, they are doing their very best.
我无法改变他们，但我可以改变环境。
I can't change them, but I can change the circumstances.
因此，我们首先要意识到，那些遭遇比你我更糟糕境遇的人， somehow 找到了在当下环境中茁壮成长的方法，因为唯一能开始的地方，就是你现在所处的位置。
And so we begin by realizing that people who have had much worse things happen to them than you or to me or to you have somehow figured out a way to thrive, to thrive given where they are right now because the only place to begin is where you are.
如果你一直等着到了别处才开始，那你永远也到不了。
If you're waiting to get to somewhere else before you begin, you're never gonna get there.
我们必须从当下开始，承认周围正在发生的事情，然后做出选择。
We have to start where we are, acknowledge what's happening right around us, and then make a choice.
选择是改变现状，还是让一切保持不变，但你只有在愿意的情况下才是受害者。
Make a choice about whether we wanna change things or whether we want them to stay the same, but you're only a victim if you wanna be.
我不认为有人喜欢听你说‘你只有在愿意的情况下才是受害者’。
I don't think anyone likes to hear you're only a victim if you wanna be.
让我说得更清楚一点。
Well, let me be really clear.
我赢得了生日彩票。
I won the birthday lottery.
我赢得了父母彩票。
I won the parent lottery.
我生来就拥有许多优势，比我周围的人，或者比历史上的人多得多。
I was born with, you know, so many advantages compared to people around me or people through the ages.
现在有些人正处在虐待性的关系中。
There are people right now who are in relationships that are abusive.
他们负债累累。
They're in debt up to their eyeballs.
他们正应对身体或心理上的残疾。
They're dealing with physical or mental disabilities.
这些情况都是真实的。
All of those things are true.
那你打算怎么办呢？
And then what are you gonna do?
对吧？
Right?
那你打算怎么办呢？
And then what are you gonna do?
所以我在这里非常谨慎地使用‘受害者’这个词。
So I'm using the word victim very carefully here.
我不是说坏事不会发生。
I'm not saying that bad things don't happen.
它们确实会发生。
They do.
它们经常发生在不该遭遇的人身上。
They often happen to people who don't deserve it.
我想说的是，我们该如何应对刚刚发生的事？
What I'm saying is how should we process what just happened?
我们应该加一个‘但是’还是一个‘而且’？
Should we add a but or an and?
对吧？
Right?
我在度假，但下雨了，这意味着我的假期被毁了。
I'm on vacation, but it's raining means my vacation is ruined.
但如果我说我在度假，而且下雨了，这就意味着我打开了一个新问题的大门：我现在该怎么应对这种情况？
But if it's I'm on vacation and it's raining, it means I've opened up the door to now what am I gonna do with that?
你能再给我举几个‘但是’和‘而且’力量不同的例子吗？
Can you give me a couple other examples of the power of but versus and?
这些词在许多句子、许多我们讲给自己的故事中承担了大量重量。
Those words do a lot of heavy lifting in many sentences, in many stories we tell ourselves.
对吧？
Right?
我希望这个人能拥有他们想要的婚礼，但我同时也希望它能符合我的预算，并且是我想要的婚礼。
I want this person to have exactly the wedding they want, but I also want it to fit into my budget and be the wedding I want.
这个词‘但是’承担了太多负担，而这正是‘随他们去’理论所揭示的关键点之一：你可以允许别人做事情，但你不能同时拥有你的‘但是’。
Well, that word but is doing a lot of heavy lifting, And this is one of the key things that's unlocked with the Let Them Theory, which is you can let people do things, but you can't have your but at the same time.
你也不能同时拥有你的‘而且’。
You can't have your and at the same time.
我们面前有些事情是问题，有些事情则是状况。
There are things that are in front of us that are problems, and there are things that are in front of us that are situations.
问题有解决方案。
Problems have solutions.
情境则没有。
Situations do not.
所以，如果这是一个情境，我们别无选择，只能接受，因为它没有解决方案。
So if it's a situation, we have no choice but to accept it because it has no solution.
但如果这是一个问题，它是可以被解决的。
But if it's a problem, it can be solved.
你可能不喜欢这个解决方案，但它是可以被解决的。
You might not like the solution, but it can be solved.
因此，从你这本精彩的书中，我的领悟是：如果那个人一定会做他想做的事，我可以把它当作一个情境来对待。
And so my takeaway from your brilliant book is if that person's gonna do what they're gonna do, I can treat it like a situation.
我可以为此大吵一架。
I can have a big fight about it.
或者，我可以意识到，他一定会做他想做的事，而我对这个问题的解决方式就是放手让他去做。
Or I can realize they're gonna do what they're gonna do, and my solution to the problem is to let them.
解决方案和情境之间的区别是什么？
What is the difference between a solution and a situation?
因为我坐在这里想，情况就是你无法改变或控制的事情。
Because I was sitting here going, a situation is something that you can't change or control.
你是不是这个意思？
Is that what you're saying?
没错。
Correct.
多年前我在大学时接受过机械工程的训练。
So I trained as a mechanical engineer years and years ago in college.
你无法改写物理定律。
You can't rewrite the laws of physics.
你不可能同时出现在两个城市。
You can't be in two cities at the same time.
如果公司不想从你这里购买，你就无法说服他们购买。
You can't persuade a company to buy something from you if they don't wanna buy it from you.
这些就是情况。
Those are situations.
问题都有解决方案。
Problems have solutions.
你可能在短期内不喜欢这些方案，但如果你愿意接受一个并非你一直梦想的结果，就一定有出路。
You just might not like them in the short run, But there is a way forward if you're willing to accept an outcome that isn't the one you've been dreaming of.
因此，我试图做的，是如果你面对的是一个无法改变的情况，就让你不必自责。
And so what I'm trying to do is let you off the hook if it's a situation.
好的。
Okay.
我无法改变这一点，但这意味着我必须接受它。
I can't change this, but I it means I have to accept it.
或者，如果这是一个问题，我就要让你正视它，是的。
Or put you on the hook if it's a problem and say, yeah.
如果这是一个问题，我可能不喜欢解决方案。
If this is a problem, I might not like the solution.
而且我可能已经想到了一个解决方案，但我并不想去做，但我清楚自己能做什么。
And probably I have a solution in mind that I don't wanna do, but I know what I could do.
我只是不喜欢它。
I just don't like it.
这仍然是一个解决方案。
Still a solution.
分手、更好地照顾自己、坚持预算、主动出击并承受他人的评判。
Breakups, taking better care of yourself, sticking to a budget, putting yourself out there and risking the, you know, judgment of other people.
这些都是问题，但都有解决办法。
These are all problems, but they have a solution.
我们只是不想去做。
We just don't wanna do it.
是的。
Yeah.
所以一个简单的技术性问题。
So a simple technical one.
如果你愿意每年花十五分钟和老板进行一次不舒服的对话，你就能赚更多的钱。
If you're willing to have an uncomfortable conversation with your boss for fifteen minutes a year, you'll make more money.
因为在那十五分钟里，你可以坦诚地告诉对方你目前的状况和你想要达到的目标。
Because in those fifteen minutes, you can share your honest truth about where you are and where you wanna go.
但如果觉得这样做太麻烦、太可怕，那你就只能接受现状。
But if it's too much trouble and too scary to do that, then you should settle for what you have.
所以，薪资谈判的解决方案就是：很可能需要进行一场尴尬的对话。
So the solution to the salary negotiation is there's probably gonna be an awkward conversation.
同样的道理也适用于你的配偶把洗碗机装得让你很不爽，而你只是希望他们能知道这一点。
The same thing's true if your spouse loads the dishwasher in a way that you find really annoying, but you want them to just know that.
你不愿意花那十分钟去费心谈这件事。
You don't wanna go through the ten minutes of hassle to talk about it.
好吧，我们知道解决方案是什么。
Well, we know what the solution is.
说出真相。
Tell the truth.
进行一场尊重对方的对话，给予同理心，但同时让他们听到你真正想表达的需求。
Have a respectful conversation offering the other person empathy, but letting them hear what you need to say.
你已经解决了这个问题。
You've solved the problem.
只是解决这个问题并不有趣。
It just wasn't fun to solve the problem.
大多数问题在解决之前都不太有趣。
Well, most problems aren't all that fun to solve until you solve them.
简单的那些已经不存在了。
The easy ones are already gone.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
That's true.
你之前谈到了噪音。
So you talked about noise.
你的工作让我明白了一点，那就是我为自己制造了太多阻力。
And one of the things that your work has taught me is just how much resistance I was manufacturing and putting in my own way.
当你第一次接触到你的工作时，赛斯，它可能会让人感到非常棘手，你会开始阅读赛斯的东西，然后想：到底是谁解决了这些问题、噪音？
And when you first bump into your work, Seth, it can feel very confronting and you start to read Seth's stuff and you're like, but who the hell does it solutions, problems, noise.
我完全不知道。
I has no idea.
然后你开始认真思考，你对那些能改善现状的事情所制造出的所有阻力。
And then you start to really consider all of the resistance that you have to that list of things that you can generate that would make a situation better.
我真希望能把这些一一拆解，因为这对我产生了最大的影响——那就是诚实地面对自己，看清我有多少时候是在自己阻碍自己，又有多少次我把问题归咎于别人或其他事情，而实际上这些根本都不是原因。
I would love to just start to pull that apart because that's had the single biggest impact on me is really being truthful with myself about how much I am in my own way and how much I blame my stuff on other people and other things when it's really none of those things at all.
阻力指的是我们为了逃避那些让我们害怕的事情而做的任何事。
The word resistance means anything that we do to get in our own way to keep us from doing something that's going to scare us.
那我们来谈谈写作障碍吧。
And so let's talk about writer's block.
写作障碍这个词只有一百年的历史。
Writer's block was only invented a hundred years ago.
我们知道是谁命名了它——《弗兰肯斯坦》作者的诗人丈夫。
We know who named it, the woman who wrote Frankenstein's poet husband.
而写作障碍基于这样一种观念：你只是没有得到灵感的指引，不知道今天该写什么。
And writer's block is based on the idea that you just don't have the muse telling you what to write today.
这完全是胡说八道。
This is nonsense.
根本不存在所谓的写作障碍。
There's no such thing as writer's block.
当一件事显得很重要时——比如写一份备忘录很重要，画一幅画很重要，或者明天晚上要和你一直想约的人约会很重要——我们就会在内心做一些事情来保护自己、隔绝自己，避免自己被牵扯进去，因为我们从小被学校灌输成这样：工厂工人不需要承担责任。
What happens is if it feels important, if writing a memo feels important, if painting something feels important, if going on a date with someone you've always wanted to go on a date with and it's tomorrow night feels important, we do something internally to insulate ourselves, to protect ourselves, to keep us from being on the hook because we got indoctrinated by school to do that because factory workers don't have to be on the hook.
他们只需要按吩咐做事就行了。
They just have to do what they're told.
但我想，这也是人性的一部分。
But it's also, I think, part of human nature.
因此，抗拒是我们无法让它消失的东西。
And resistance then is something that we cannot make go away.
如果我们打算做一件重要的事，就一定会遇到抗拒。
If we're going to do something important, there's going to be resistance.
如果你感觉不到阻力，那可能还不够重要。
If you don't feel resistance, it might not be important enough.
那么问题来了，当阻力出现时，你该怎么做？
So the question then is what do you do when it shows up?
答案是：说声谢谢。
And the answer is you say thank you.
谢谢你提醒我，我正处在做一件重要事情的边缘。
Thanks for letting me know I'm on the verge of doing something important.
谢谢你提醒我，这件事应该排在我的优先事项最前面。
Thanks for reminding me that this needs to be on the top of my priority list.
我拖延的事情，之所以拖延，是因为阻力。
The things I'm procrastinating, I'm procrastinating because of resistance.
所以我现在有了一个指南针，它指引我去做那些艰难的工作。
And so I now have a compass, and the compass points me to the hard work to be done.
关于艰难的工作，我觉得值得花一分钟谈谈。
And hard work, I think, is is worth talking about for a minute.
在过去，辛苦工作意味着你能背多少磅的碎石，因为我们没有机器。
Hard work in the old days was how many pounds of gravel can you carry on your back because we don't have any machines.
但现在，辛苦工作是指：我是否提出了一个不在现有解决方案列表中的新方案？
But now hard work is, did I come up with a solution that's not on the list of solutions?
我是否以对方能听进去的方式说了真话？
Did I tell the truth in a way that the other person could hear?
我是否做出了一个正确的决定？
Did I make a good decision?
我是否写出了前所未有的文字，唱出了前所未有的歌曲，画出了前所未有的画作？
Did I write something that's never been written before, sing something that's never been sung before, paint something that's never been painted before?
这才是我们的使命。
That's our job.
因此，当我们思考如何与家人相处时，如果我们只是把东西放进微波炉，完成所有表面任务，然后每天坐下来刷三个小时的流媒体，那你只是在应付。
And so when we think about how do we engage with our family, well, if we're just gonna, you know, put the stuff in the microwave oven, check all the boxes, and then sit down and watch three hours of streaming every night, you're fitting in.
你让所有公司都开心了，但你没有面对阻力，而真正的挑战是：我害怕去做的、真正该做的事是什么？
You're making all the companies happy, but you're not facing the resistance, which is what is the work that needs to be done that I'm afraid of?
为什么做你害怕去做的事，是通往更充实生活的关键？
Why is doing the work that you're afraid of doing the secret to a more fulfilling life?
因为你可能会把'工作'这个词误解为与你的职业相关，或你待办清单上的事情。
Because you could mistake the word work for something related to your career or something that is on your to do list.
但我知道你谈论的是一个更根本的层面。
But I know that you're talking about something at a way more fundamental level
对。
Right.
这关乎你活着的体验。
That is about your experience of being alive
是的。
Yes.
以及你在人生旅途中对自己的体验。
And your experience of yourself as you're going through this life.
那么，我们能否更深入地探讨一下，这到底意味着什么，所谓的'工作'是什么？
So can we go deeper into what that means, what the work is?
我不
I don't
我不知道有谁愿意一辈子坐在海滩上，有人不断给他送芒果特调鸡尾酒。
know anybody who wants to spend the rest of their life sitting on a beach having a way to bring them Mai Tais.
每一天，你都不被允许做其他任何事。
Every day, you're not allowed to do anything else.
我认为这会让几乎所有人发疯。
I think that would drive almost everyone crazy.
当我们有机会以任何形式投入生产性活动时，无论是否因此获得报酬，我们都有机会真正地活出自我。
When we have a chance to be productive in whatever form that is, whether or not we are getting paid for it, we have a chance to be fully alive.
这可能是你业余时间做的陶艺，也可能是你养育孩子的方式。
It could be the pottery you make in your spare time or the way you are raising your kids.
也可能是你去当地动物收容所做志愿者。
It could be the fact that you volunteer at the local animal shelter.
那就是工作。
That's work.
你做这件事是因为工作需要完成，而把它做好会带来满足感。
You're doing it because the work needs to be done, and doing it well is gratifying.
这会产生一种神奇的副作用，这种满足感会带来一连串其他好处，比如更多的尊重、更多的独立性、更多的韧性，因为这个世界迫不及待地想要找到那些愿意认真做事的人。
There's a magical side effect, and the side effect is this gratifying life translates into a whole bunch of side effects, like more respect, like more independence, like more resilience in the bank, because the universe can't wait for people to show up who do good work.
他们会排着队来找你，向你提供友谊、尊重，甚至金钱，只要你愿意做那些别人害怕去做的事。
They will line up outside your door and offer you friendship or respect or even money if you are the person who's willing to do the things other people are afraid to do.
有一件有趣的事情是，如果你想想那些对你来说很重要的事，比如现在孩子都长大了，清理阁楼。
One of the things that is interesting is that if you think about something that you know is important to you, whether it's cleaning out the attic now that the kids are gone.
别人都不在乎，但这件事却一直萦绕在你心头。
Nobody else seems to care about but this just nags at you.
或者写下你祖母的所有食谱并自费出版一本食谱，或者在Etsy上开一家店，或者去社区花园做志愿者——我们每个人内心都有这样一种挥之不去的冲动，只是我们一直把它压下去、关闭掉。
Or it's really writing down all your grandmother's recipes and self publishing a cookbook, or it's starting that store on Etsy or it's volunteering at the community gardens, there is this nagging thing that is inside each and every one of us that we just shove away and shut down.
你所说的正是那种阻力，因为真正重要的事情是不会消失的。
And what you're talking about is that the resistance that you feel because the things that are important don't go away.
再忙也消除不了这种痛感，而你正在谈论它，并给予我们许可，让我们以全新的视角去看待它。
There is no amount of busyness that takes that kind of it's an ache in there And so you're talking about and giving us this permission to really look at it differently.
这可不是待办事项。
It's not a to do.
这是你最应该强迫自己花时间去做的最重要的事情之一。
It is some of the most important things that you could force yourself to spend time on.
为什么那个你一直想写的个人著作、想开设的YouTube频道、一直梦想着的副业，会如此具有个人意义呢？
Why is the personal nature of that nagging book you wanna write, that YouTube channel you wanna start, the side business that you keep dreaming about?
那到底是什么呢，塞思？
What is that that thing actually about, Seth?
好吧。
Okay.
两个词。
Two words.
准备好了吗？
You ready?
准备好了。
Yes.
选择你自己。
Pick yourself.
主导体系不希望你选择自己。
The dominant system does not want you to pick yourself.
主导体系希望你等待被邀请参加真人秀，被邀请申请工作。
The dominant system wants you to wait to be invited to go on a reality show, to be invited to apply for a job.
他们希望你去就业办公室，等待公司来面试你。
They want you to go to the placement office and wait for the company to come interview you.
别人会挑选你、授权你的想法。
The idea that someone else will pick you and authorize you.
他们会打电话给你，说：梅尔，我们知道你心里有一部小说。
They will call you up and they say, Mel, we know you have a novel in you.
你愿意写这部小说吗？我们会出版它。
Would you please write the novel and we will publish it?
我这是有切身体会的。
And I'm speaking from experience here.
我跟成千上万处于这种境况的人谈过，他们心里都藏着一本书。
I've talked to thousands of people in this very situation who have a book inside of them.
我对他们的建议很简单。
And my advice to them is it's simple.
把它做成PDF，发给20个人，请他们免费分享给其他人。
Make it into a PDF, email it to 20 people, ask them to share it with others for free.
如果它传播开了，你的电话就会响起来，那时你就能被聘去写另一本书了。
If it spreads, your phone will ring, and now you can get hired to write another one.
如果它没传播开，那就写一本更好的。
If it doesn't spread, write something better.
就这样。
The end.
几乎没人这么做，因为说‘是的’真的挺尴尬的。
And almost no one does this because it's really awkward to say, yeah.
我选择了自己。
I picked myself.
我在这里写的。
I wrote this here.
我做的。
I made this.
这四个词——‘我在这里写的’，非常具有挑战性，对吧？
And those four words, here, I made this, are so challenging, Right?
与其发明一些要端给在乎的人的食物，不如买本食谱照着做，这样更容易。
That it's easier to buy a cookbook and follow the recipe than to invent something you're going to serve to people you care about.
所以，如果我们能找到一种生活，能识别出真正对我们重要的事情，然后选择自己去行动——不是为了赢得奖品或奖章，而是因为我们拥有自主权，因为我们能够做到，这个词就是自由。
And so if we can find a life where we can identify the things that are important to us, truly important to us, and then pick ourselves, not to do the work to win a prize or get a medal, but because we have agency, because we could, the word for that is freedom.
承担责任，现身创作，并将作品奉献给世界。
It is the responsibility of showing up to make a thing and offering it to the world.
也许只有你的家人注意到阁楼被打扫干净了，但你知道，是你自己雇了自己来打扫阁楼。
It might just be your family that notices the attic is clean, but you you realize that you hired yourself to clean the attic.
别等到你要卖房子、房产中介雇你打扫阁楼时才行动。
Don't wait till you're gonna sell the house and the realtor hires you to clean the attic.
你给自己雇来打扫阁楼。
You hired yourself to clean the attic.
这种自由与责任，正是尊严的所在。
And that sort of freedom and responsibility, that's where dignity lies.
我认识的每个人，都渴望在生活中拥有更多的尊严。
And everyone I've ever met wants more dignity in their life.
等一下，塞思。
Hang on a second, Seth.
我得在这里暂停一下，因为如果你正在听，感到内心一震，好像有什么东西突然明白了，别独自藏着。
I need to pause right here because if you're listening and feeling that spark like something just clicked, don't keep it to yourself.
把它分享给需要的人——朋友、同事、伴侣、姐妹、成年的孩子，任何想到的人。
Share this with someone who needs it to, a friend, a coworker, your partner, your sister, your adult kids, whoever came to mind.
趁我们短暂休息时，现在就去做。
Do it now while we take a quick break.
然后别走开，因为我们马上回来，继续带来塞思·戈丁的精彩内容。
And then don't go anywhere because we'll be right back with more from the amazing Seth Godin.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
我是梅尔·罗宾斯。
I'm Mel Robbins.
你和我正在与这位非凡的畅销书作家、现象级人物戈丁对话。
You and I are sitting down with the extraordinary best selling author and phenomenon, Godin.
所以，塞思，为什么人们如此抗拒自我选择呢？
So, Seth, why is there so much resistance to picking yourself?
为什么我们总在等待别人出现，塞思，然后说：嘿。
Why are we waiting for someone else to come along, Seth, and be like, hey.
你应该写那本书。
You should write that book.
嘿。
Hey.
你应该辞掉你的工作。
You should quit your job.
嘿。
Hey.
你知道吗，我觉得你应该开始做这个生意。
You know, I think you should start that business.
嘿。
Hey.
你有没有想过结束这段关系？
Have you ever thought about getting out of that relationship?
嘿。
Hey.
你应该请家人多帮你一点。
You should ask your family to help you out a little bit more.
生活就像高中，不是吗？
Life is high school, isn't it?
确实是。
It is.
高中在我们人生的重要时刻教会了我们很多东西。
And high school taught us a whole bunch at a very important moment of our life.
那些看似最安全、顺利度过的人，并不是那些主动选择自己的人。
And the people who got by who seemed the safest weren't the ones who were picking themselves.
他们是那些躲在制服后面、躲在态度后面、躲在小团体里、躲在群体中、躲在乌合之众里的人。
They were the ones who were sort of hiding out, hiding out in a uniform, hiding out in an attitude, hiding out in a clique, hiding out in a group, hiding out in a mob.
所以，这个系统希望我们躲起来。
And so the system wants us to hide out.
如果你属于大众群体，卖你午餐盒和电视上的下一个产品就容易多了。
It's much easier to sell you Lunchables and to sell you the next thing on television if you are part of the crowd.
因此，我们必须做一些工作来打破这些自我灌输的观念，而分享这个播客正是其中一件神奇的事。
So we have to do some work to unteach us to ourselves, and that's one of the magical things about sharing this podcast.
因为当你对朋友说：‘我要这样做了，听这个，监督我’，你就选择了自己，同时也选择了一个人来监督你，这样循环就能持续下去。
Because when you say to a friend, I'm gonna start acting this way, listen to this, hold me accountable, you picked yourself, but you now picked someone to hold you accountable as well, and the cycle can continue.
我们注意到的一件事是，当你身处某个圈子时——无论是1964年芝加哥的爵士乐手，还是十年前的硅谷创业者——你都希望融入那个群体、那个圈子。
That one of the things we notice is that when you are part of a scene, whether that scene is jazz musicians in Chicago in 1964 or Silicon Valley entrepreneurs ten years ago, you want to fit in with the group, the scene you are a part of.
所以，如果你所处的环境无法带你到达你想去的地方，那就建立一个不同的环境。
So if the scene you're part of isn't getting you where you wanna go, build a different one.
建立一个由不同的人组成的圈子，他们彼此追问关于关系的问题、关于正在阅读的书、关于正在写的书，以及关于你想要创造的任何事物，因为我们成为什么样的人，取决于我们与谁为伍以及他们对我们的期待。
Build a different circle of people who ask each other hard questions about their relationships, about the books they're reading, about the books they're writing, about whatever it is you wanna make because we become who we hang out with and what they expect of us.
我相信，人类的内在构造中有一种基本需求，与成长、学习、连接和表达自我息息相关。
I believe it's a fact that there's something about the hardwiring of a human being that is a fundamental need tied to growth, tied to learning, tied to connection and expressing yourself.
无论你多么忙碌，无论你喝多少酒，无论你赚了多少钱，无论你多么贫穷，你都永远无法逃避那些此生注定属于你的事情。
And no matter how busy you get, no matter how much you drink, no matter how much money you make, no matter how broke you may get, you will still never outrun the things that are uniquely meant for you to do during this lifetime.
它们总是以一种神奇的方式萦绕着你。
They just have this kind of magical way of haunting you.
因此，这给你带来了一个选择。
And so that presents you with this choice.
你是否明知内心深处有一些改变想要实现？
Do I sit knowing deep down there's some change I wanna make?
你是否希望你自己、你的世界或你的家庭变得更好？
There's some way I want myself or my world or my family to be better?
我有一件事想做。
There's something I wanna do.
我想找到一些人。
There's people I wanna find.
但我不去行动，反而坐着任由抗拒感慢慢吞噬我，每当我想到它时，就主动否认或说服自己放弃。
But instead of doing it, I am going to sit with the resistance that slowly is killing me as I think about it and actively deny or talk myself out of it.
塞思，我经常看到，当人们写信来时，有人会写说：你知道吗，我已经改变了我的生活。
One of the things that I see a lot, Seth, when people write in is somebody will write in and say, you know, I've changed my life.
我减掉了一些体重。
I've lost some weight.
我在锻炼。
I'm exercising.
我感觉棒极了。
I feel incredible.
我开始每天写日记。
I've started journaling every day.
我现在也在销售这个新的护肤系列，或者我拿到了房地产经纪人执照。
I'm also now selling this new skincare line or I got my realtor's license.
我的伴侣不喜欢我正在做的事情。
My partner hates what I'm doing.
他们完全不支持我。
They're not supportive at all.
所以你能谈谈来自周围人的噪音和阻力吗？如果你迟迟没有做出想要的改变，其中一个原因就是这些外部压力，你该如何应对？
So can you talk a bit about the noise and the resistance that comes from the people around you and what to do with it if one of the reasons why you're not making the change you wanna make is because of that outside
压力。
pressure.
所以当不确定时，去找出你的恐惧。
So when in doubt, look for the fear.
人们有三种驱动力：恐惧、归属感和地位。
There are three things that motivate people, fear, affiliation, and status.
那我们倒过来谈这三种动力。
So let's do them in reverse order.
地位就是谁先吃午饭，谁在上位谁在下位，你开什么车，你的办公桌是不是离老板更近，你是不是妈妈最偏爱的孩子——这些都属于地位。
Status is who eats lunch first, who's up and who's down, what kind of car are you driving, you know, is your desk closer to the boss's, who are you mom's favorite kid status.
归属感就是谁在你左边，谁在你右边，你穿的衣服对不对？
Affiliation is who's to my left, who's to my right, Am I wearing the right outfit?
你的发型够不够时尚？
Is my hair the right style?
你戴的眼镜对不对？
Am I wearing the right glasses?
你能不能融入其中？
Do I fit in?
在这两者之下，潜藏着恐惧。
And between those two, underlying both is fear.
恐惧当然始于对死亡的恐惧，因为我们终将一死，但它还延伸到无数其他方面。
It starts, of course, with the fear of death because we're all gonna die, but extends to a million things.
我们已经找到了方法，把几乎所有事情都和恐惧联系起来。
We figured out how to hook almost everything up to fear.
所以，围绕在你身边、关心你的人也都很害怕，你也是如此。
So the people who are around you, who care about you are afraid, so are you.
这种恐惧可能源于不确定自己即将成为什么样的人。
And that fear might involve not knowing the person you're about to become.
这种恐惧也可能源于对世界变化后可能发生的一切灾难性想象。
That fear might involve catastrophizing what might happen if the world changed.
但关键是，梅尔。
But here's the thing, Mel.
现在这个世界真的非常疯狂，而这种状态，恐怕就是今后最正常的状态了。
The world is really crazy right now, and this is as normal as it is ever going to be again.
如果你在等待事情回到正常，那你得等很久很久。
If you're waiting for things to get back to normal, you're gonna be waiting a very long time.
既然变化无论你愿不愿意都会发生，那么问题来了：我们是应该主动掌握、控制并影响这种变化，还是坐等其变？
And so given that change is happening whether you like it or not, the question is, should we take agency and control and influence of that, or should we sit back and just wait?
所以，你正在倾听、以之为榜样的那些人，他们的本意都是好的。
And so the people who are you are listening to, who you are modeling your behavior around, they mean really well.
在这种情况下，他们爱你、关心你，但情况决定了一切。
Under the circumstances, they love you and they care about you, but the circumstances determine everything.
而这些情况包括我们所学的一切、我们被引导期待的一切，以及我们所处的所有系统。
And the circumstances involve everything we've been taught, everything we've been led to expect, and the systems we're all part of.
如果这对你是有效的，那就不要做任何改变。
And if it's working for you, don't change anything.
但如果这对你是无效的，那我们就回到‘而且’和‘但是’的问题上。
But if it's not working for you, then we get back to the and and but thing.
如果这对你是无效的，你就必须做出决定。
If it's not working for you, you have to decide.
如果情况糟糕到你愿意面对改变所带来的短期阻力和挑战。
If it's not working bad enough that you're willing to deal with the short term resistance and challenges to change it.
你不能保证结果会如你所愿，但你能保证的是，你可以影响它。
And you're not guaranteed it's gonna work out the way you hope, but you are guaranteed that you can influence it.
比如，有个人改变了生活方式，现在更健康了，可能减少了饮酒，早起，而他们的伴侣还在睡觉，这让他们感觉彼此之间有了一点距离。
So in the instance of somebody who has changed their lifestyle, they're now healthier, maybe they've cut back on the drinking, they're getting up earlier, their spouse is sleeping in, it feels like they're growing a little bit apart.
如果我们用‘但是’，你可以说：我正在变得更健康，感觉很棒，也在做出积极的改变，但我的配偶不喜欢这样。
If we use the but and, you could say, I'm getting healthier and I'm feeling great and I'm making positive changes, but my spouse doesn't like it.
而如果说：我正在变得更健康，正在做出积极的改变，感觉好多了，而我的配偶不喜欢这样。
Versus, I'm getting healthier, I'm making positive changes, I'm feeling much better, and my spouse doesn't like it.
如果是第二种情况
And if it's the second one
是的。
Yeah.
现在你对这段关系负有责任，因为你的配偶无法独自解决这个问题。
Now you owe your relationship something because your spouse can't fix this problem by themselves.
因为如果他们能解决，早就解决了。
Because if they could, they already would've.
所以，你可以只是宣布这是一个状况并接受它，或者你可以思考：真正理解我的配偶意味着什么？真正看到他们的恐惧，真正理解他们为何会因为我在做这件事而感到被排斥或贬低——而这件事他们自己其实也偷偷想做却做不到？
So you can just announce its a situation and live with it, or you could say, what would it mean for me to really see my spouse, to really see their fear, to really understand how they might feel rejected or denigrated by the fact that I'm doing this thing that they secretly would like to do do but can't?
我该如何努力，让他们感受到我们关系最美好时那份稳固的基石？
How can I put effort into helping them feel the firm foundation that our relationship has when it's at its best?
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实现这一点有很多方法，但没有一种是 guaranteed 的。
And there are lots of ways to do that, but none of them are guaranteed.
但如果你不努力去经营，它很可能不会顺利进行。
But if you don't work at it, it's probably not gonna work very well.
我就是喜欢‘但是’和‘而且’这种简单的表达方式。
Well, I love just the simplicity of but and and.
因为当你用‘但是’时，突然间，配偶就成了你必须停止做这件事的原因，或者成了你遇到困难的最主要理由。
Because when you say but, now all of a sudden, it means the spouse is the reason you gotta stop doing it, or they're the biggest reason why it's hard for you.
当你用‘而且’时，你实际上把你自己和他们分开了，同时承认这两件事都可以是真实的。
When you say and, you basically separate yourself and them and you hold space for both things to be true.
而且
And
因此，他们不会成为借口，而只是你所面对的问题或事实之一。
therefore they don't become the excuse, they just become one of the problems or the facts of what you're dealing with.
现在你可以决定如何让这种情况变得更好。
And now you can decide how you're going to make this better.
对。
Correct.
完全正确。
It's exactly right.
非常简单。
It's super easy.
所以如果你想想这场马拉松，是的。
So if you think about the marathon Yes.
我们在波士顿。
We're in Boston.
好。
K.
有些人跑波士顿马拉松，跑到24英里就停下了。
Some people run the Boston Marathon and make it 24 miles, and then they stop.
有些人则跑完了全程。
And some people finish it.
完成马拉松的人和几乎完成马拉松的人之间的唯一区别，在于完成马拉松的人知道如何安放疲惫。
And the only difference between the people who finish the marathon and the people who almost finish the marathon is the people who finish the marathon figure out where to put the tired.
他们都很疲惫。
They're both tired.
对吧？
Right?
但如果你在24英里处放弃，你就无法承受所有的疲惫。
But if when if if you quit at 24, you can't handle all the tired.
你必须停下来。
You gotta stop.
但那些坚持到26英里的人，也同样疲惫。
But the difference is the people who make it to 26, they're tired too.
他们只是知道如何安放这种疲惫。
They just figure out where to put it.
所以如果你去找跑步教练说想跑马拉松，你不能说：我想完成比赛但不感到疲惫。
So if you go to a running coach and say, wanna run the marathon, you don't get to say, and I want to finish without getting tired.
不允许。
Not allowed.
你必须说，我要跑马拉松，我会感到疲惫，而且我必须能够应对这两者。
You have to say, I'm going to run the marathon, and I'm gonna get tired, and I need to be able to do both.
所以，这种前进、改变你的外貌或生活的方式，必然伴随着一种疲惫感。
So this idea that forward motion, changing your appearance or your life, it comes with a form of tired that goes with it.
你打算把这种疲惫放在哪里？
Where are you gonna put it?
你打算如何付出努力，学会应对这些影响？
How are you gonna put in the effort to get good at dealing with the effects?
你刚才说的一句话非常令人解脱。
You just said a sentence is very liberating.
尽管我读过你所有的书，但我不确定这一句以前有哪次像现在这样深深打动了我。
And even though I've read absolutely all your books, I'm not sure this one has ever hit me the way that it hit me right now.
我必须能够应对这两者。
I need to be able to do both.
有一种假设，几乎像是一种妄想，是的。
There is this presumption, almost like a psychosis Mhmm.
当你觉得某件事对你很重要时，你会认为它做起来会很容易。
That when something's important to you, you believe it's gonna be kinda easy to do.
如果你一开始就假设这件事很重要，我会感到疲惫，会很难，会有很大的阻力，所以我必须能够同时应对这两点。
And if you were to start with the presumption that this thing's important and I'm gonna get tired and it's gonna be hard and there's gonna be a lot of resistance, so I need to be able to do both.
去做那件重要的事，同时也要明白，疲惫和困难是其中的一部分。
Do the thing that's important and also know that this is part of the package.
对。
Right.
对于那些一直深思某个想法，或感受到积极改变召唤的人来说。
You know, for someone who's who's been really sitting with an idea or feels that pull toward a positive change.
对吧？
Right?
但他们一直坐在那里，等待合适的时机，等待自己准备好，一直等，一直等，一直等，一直等。
But they've been sitting there waiting for the right time, waiting to feel ready, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting.
那你该说什么或做什么呢？
What do you say or do?
恭喜你啊。
Well, congratulations.
你得到了你想要的一切。
You got exactly what you wanted.
你什么意思？
What do you mean?
没人强迫你等待。
No one's forcing you to not wait.
是你自己选择等待的。
You're choosing to wait.
这真是个安全又美好的避风港啊。
What a safe, lovely place to hang out.
你可以说：我已经把我的小说投给了20家优秀的出版社，但都被拒了。
To be able to say, I've submitted my novel to 20 great publishers, and they all turned me down.
好吧。
Okay.
你解脱了。
You're off the hook.
那能有多安全？
How safe could that be?
我有一个很棒的演讲想做，但他们不让我在TED上登主舞台。
That I have a great talk I wanna give, but they won't let me get the main stage at TED.
只要他们一打电话，我就准备好去演讲了。
I they just won't as soon as they call, I'm ready to go give the talk.
恭喜。
Congratulations.
你打造了一个完美的藏身之处。
You've built a perfect place to hide.
我们都这么做。
And we all do this.
无论我们身处何地，无论我们从事什么职业。
No matter where we are, no matter what our we do for a living.
这就是我们所做的。
This is what we do.
我们总会找到一个完美的地方躲起来。
We find a perfect place to hide.
如果这对你有效，就别停下。
And if it's working for you, don't stop.
但如果这对你无效，我们就得面对这个问题。
But if it's not working for you, then we get to this and thing.
对吧？
Right?
我有一场想讲的演讲，我昨天录好了，明天就会上传到YouTube。
I have a talk I wanna give, and I recorded it yesterday, and it's on YouTube tomorrow.
对吧？
Right?
然后啊，就像那个，哦，我不想做那种事。
Then Oh, like, that right there is like, oh, I don't wanna do that though.
对。
Right.
用另一个名字做。
Do it under another name.
对吧？
Right?
多年来我一直建议人们：你应该开个博客。
I've suggested to people for years, you should start a blog.
如果你想用化名做，我无所谓。
And if you wanna do it under an assumed name, I don't care.
但一百天后，你就想署上自己的名字了。
But after a hundred days, you'll wanna put your name on it.
所以明天
So tomorrow
为什么我一百天后要署上自己的名字？
Why would I wanna put my name on it after a hundred days?
因为你会对自己的所作所为感到无比开心。
Because you're gonna be so happy with what you are doing.
你会为这项作品感到无比自豪，因为你完成了它，所以想为此承担责任。
You're gonna be so proud that this work is there, that you did it, that you wanna take credit for it.
对吧？
Right?
这不过是说一句：看，这是我做的。
It's just the act of saying, here, I made this.
我把这个带到了世界上，供可能从中受益的人们使用。
I put this into the world for people who might benefit from it.
而且你会感受到一种慷慨之情，因为别忘了，分享这个想法并不需要我们付出任何代价，但它却具有杠杆效应。
And the generosity feeling because remember, it doesn't cost us anything to do this idea sharing, and it has leverage.
它可能会被传播给成千上万的人。
It might be multiplied to a whole bunch of people.
这和在Instagram上到处求人给你点赞之类的行为完全不同。
This is not the same as going on Instagram and hustling everybody you know to give you a like or whatever it is.
他们设计了算法，让你在没做他们希望你做的事之前，一直感到不安。
They are structuring their algorithm so that you will feel bad until you do more of what they want you to do.
这就是他们的生财之道。
That's how they make a living.
当我们不断创作内容却不向他们收费，还让所有朋友都去消费这些内容时，我们其实是在替他们干活。
That when we are constantly creating content without charging them and telling all of our friends to absorb that content, we're doing their work.
这是一种陷阱，因为你可能会说：我已经做了所有该做的事。
It's a trap because you can say, well, I've done all the things.
我戴上了宽边帽。
I've got the wide brimmed hat.
我设置了灯光。
I've got the lighting.
我像其他人一样，把所有该做的都做了。
I'm doing all the things like everybody else is doing.
我要成为一名网红。
I'm gonna be an influencer.
我只是还没有达到三十万粉丝而已。
I just don't have my 300,000 followers yet.
现在你又找到了另一个可以困住自己的安全地方。
And now you found another safe place to be stuck.
于是，你通过自私地要求人们在线为你做事情，耗尽了你的人际关系，还一味迎合一群你根本不认识、也不在乎的人。
And so you end up burning your relationships by selfishly asking people to do things for you online, and you're pandering to a crowd you don't know and don't care about.
再一次，你陷入了困境。
And once again, you're trapped.
你所说的意思是，如果你一直坐在自己的脑子里，等待合适的时机，或者 obsessively 追求做这件事的正确方式，很可能是因为你在意——我希望别人喜欢它。
What you're saying is if you're sitting in your head waiting for the right time or obsessing over the right way to do it, probably because you're managing, I want people to like it.
所以，与其这样，不如干脆选择自己，告诉自己：等等，我想把这件事发布出去，不管这是我的房地产生意、我的艺术作品，还是我只是开始写点什么，我想做是因为我坐在这里，看着别人不断行动，而我却在悄悄放弃自己，这让我无法忍受。
So instead of picking yourself and saying, wait a minute, I wanna put this out there, whether it's my real estate business or it's my art or it's just me starting to write something, I wanna do it because it's killing me to sit here and watch everybody else do stuff and to know I'm quietly quitting on myself.
我称之为有意识的设计。
There's something I call intentional design.
好。
K.
而且这是两个简单的问题。
And it's two simple questions.
嗯。
Mhmm.
它是给谁的？目的是什么？
Who's it for and what's it for?
你发在社交媒体上的这个东西，究竟是给谁的？
So this thing you're putting on social media, who exactly is it for?
你能具体告诉我吗？如果可以的话，说出名字，它是给谁的？
Tell me exactly, by name if you could, who is it for?
如果目标不是这些人，你就不希望他们看到。
If it's not one of those people, you don't want them to see it.
他们喜不喜欢，你根本不在乎。
You don't care if they don't like it.
它的用途是什么？
What's it for?
你为什么投入这么多精力？
Why are you putting in this effort?
你能从中得到什么？
What do you get out of it?
他们能从中得到什么
What do they get out
如果
of If
如果你答不出这两个问题：它是给谁的？
you can't answer those two questions, who's it for?
它的用途是什么？
What's it for?
那你就是在盲目摸索。
Then you're floundering.
那你就是在逃避。
Then you're hiding.
对于那个从未真正开始过的人，你怎么激励自己？
For the person who never actually starts, how do you pick yourself?
你坐在家里，听着这些话，感到沮丧，因为你一直想重返护理学校，却想了一千个理由说明自己做不到——钱不够、这个人那件事、时机不对、我年纪大了，诸如此类。
You're sitting in your house, you're listening to this, you're frustrated because you've been thinking about going back to nursing school forever, and you've thought of all the bazillion reasons why you can't and the money and the this and the people and the timing and I'm old and all that other stuff.
在这种情况下，你怎么激励自己？
In that instance, how do you pick yourself?
因为你一直处在那种状态中。
Because you've been in that right
当然。
For sure.
这是一种根深蒂固的习惯。
It's such a grooved habit.
两个相关的想法。
Two related ideas.
最小可行受众和最小可行的艺术作品。
The smallest viable audience and the smallest viable piece of art.
那么，最小可行受众是指最少有多少人？
So the smallest viable audience is what's the smallest group of people?
如果你对他们产生了影响，那就足够了。
And if you made an impact on them, it would be enough.
如果是家庭，一个孩子就够了。
So if it's a household, one kid.
这就足够了。
That would be enough.
我不在乎邻居怎么想。
I don't care what the neighbors think.
这是为他们做的。
It's for them.
而最小的艺术作品是指，我能做出怎样的改变才值得？
And the smallest piece of art is what's the shift I could make that would be worth it?
所以，如果你因为重返护理学校而瘫痪了二十年，为什么不每周去当地的养老院或医院做一天志愿者呢？
So if you've been paralyzed for twenty years by going back to nursing school, why don't you go to the local senior home or hospital and volunteer for one afternoon a week?
他们不会把你拒之门外的。
They're not gonna turn you away.
如果你每周能花两个小时改变某个人的生活，会发生什么？
What would happen if for two hours a week you could change somebody's life?
你希望更多地做这样的事吗？
Do you wanna do that more?
其实有很多方式可以让你做更多这样的事。
Well, there's lots of ways you can do that more.
但你并没有坐在家里空想。
But you're not sitting at home wishing.
你实际上正在每天或每周花两个小时去改变别人的生活。
You're actually spending two hours a day or a week changing someone's life.
最小可行的艺术单位非常、非常小。
The smallest viable unit of art is very, very small.
我对那些说‘我老板不让我’的人说，这是一种非常常见的说法。
I say to people who say, my boss won't let me, which is a very common expression.
我想在工作中有所作为，但我老板不让我这么做。
I wanna make a difference at work, but my boss won't let me.
他们真正想表达的是，他们想从上到下彻底改革整个工作环境，但别人不给他们这个权力。
What they're really saying is I wanna revamp everything at work from the top down, and they won't give me authority to do so.
当然，他们不会给的。
Well, of course, they won't.
但你知道你可以做什么吗？
But you know what you could do?
你可以在周五午餐时组织一个读书小组，只邀请五个人，说：我们都来读梅尔的书。
You could start a book group over lunch on Fridays, and you could just invite five people and say, we're all gonna read Mel's book.
下周五午餐时准备好讨论这本书。
Come next week prepared to discuss it on Friday over lunch.
如果这个办法有效，你就可以继续做更多类似的事情。
And if it works, you get to do it more.
如果没效果，我们就可以停止。
And if it doesn't work, we can stop.
这些都是你为自己选择的绝佳例子。
Those are great examples of you picking you.
最小可行受众，会不会其实只是你自己？
Is the smallest viable audience, could it also just be you?
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I'm saying?
还是说，真正重要的是，你要好好琢磨如何把这件大事缩小，变成一件能影响他人的小事？
Or is it important that you to really hack this well groove thing to say, how could I shrink this big thing and turn it into a little thing that impacts somebody else?
真的有必要想，我害怕在Substack上发布关于我各种想法的文章，但我可以给妹妹发封邮件吗？
Is it really important to think about, well, I'm scared to put up a substack thing about my musings about whatever, but I could send an email to my sister.
你是不是就是这个意思？
Is that kinda what you're thinking?
是的。
Yeah.
那我们从爱好开始吧。
So let's begin with hobbies.
我非常喜欢爱好。
I love hobbies.
我有太多爱好了。
I have so many hobbies.
好的。
K.
爱好是为你而存在的。
Hobbies are for you.
不要因为邻居不喜欢你刚雕刻的独木舟桨就放弃你的爱好。
Do not stop your hobby because your neighbor doesn't like the canoe paddle you just carved.
这不是为他们做的。
It's not for them.
这是为你做的。
It's for you.
所以，如果你在做某件事只是为了自己，请为自己做点什么。
So if you're doing something just for you, please do something for you.
把它称为爱好。
Call it a hobby.
不要在它上面加任何但是或和。
Don't add any buts or ands to it.
这是为你而做的。
It's for you.
但那之后最小的单位是你妹妹，是一个人。
But the smallest unit after that is your sister, is one human.
我们需要花一点时间谈谈依恋。
And we have to talk for a second about attachment.
K。
K.
依恋是一个佛教术语，但很容易理解。
Attachment is a Buddhist term, but it's pretty easy to understand.
执著意味着你试图控制结果。
Attachment means that you're trying to control the outcome.
你执著于女儿婚礼当天的天气会怎样。
You're attached to what the weather's gonna be like at your daughter's wedding.
你执著于人们是否喜欢你制作的这一集。
You're attached to whether people like the episode you're making.
你执著了。
You're attached.
你试图从外部控制某件事。
You're you're trying to control something from the outside.
执著的问题在于这里。
Here's the problem with attachment.
假设你和我想游过一个小湖，并且希望安全抵达。
Let's say you and I wanna swim across a small lake, and we wanna be safe.
对吧？
Right?
稳妥的做法是保持八英尺的距离，各自游泳。
Well, the safe way to do it is eight feet apart, we swim.
如果其中一人遇到麻烦，另一人就能提供帮助。
And if one of us gets into trouble, the other one can help.
愚蠢的做法是我用绳子把我的右臂和你的右臂绑在一起，四根绳子，臂对臂、腿对腿，结果我们俩都会淹死，因为这样根本无法生存。
The stupid thing is for me to attach my right arm to your right arm by a rope and four ropes, arm to arm, leg to leg, we're both gonna drown because you can't survive that way.
所以当我们着手做这件事并把它带给世界时，我做了这个，但并不意味着‘我希望你喜欢它’。
So when we are going to do this work and bring it to the world, here, I made this, but it's not followed by, and I need you to like it.
它就在这里。
It's just here.
它是一份礼物。
It's a gift.
这才是这里让某物成为礼物的原因。
That is what makes something a gift here.
而不是‘你得给我写感谢信’、‘你得给我一个大大的微笑’、‘你得把盘子吃得干干净净’、‘你得好好珍惜它’。
Not, and you owe me a thank you note, and you owe me a big smile, and you better clean your plate, and you better appreciate it.
因为现在我被绑住了，还在试图控制它。
Because now I'm attached, and I'm trying to control it.
这已经不是一份礼物了。
That's not a gift anymore.
这只是把别人卷入你的故事里，这注定会让人失望。
That's just getting somebody else wrapped up in your story, and that's a recipe for disappointment.
好的。
Okay.
你现在也有这样的时刻吗？
Are you having those moments right now?
因为我确实有。
Because I certainly am.
我想让你记住，这并不是偶然的。
And I want you to remember that's not random.
这是你恰好得到了你来这里想要的、需要的东西。
That's you getting exactly what you came here for and what you needed.
所以在你们聆听我们出色的赞助商广告时，我想请大家分享塞思此刻给予你们的这段精彩建议和灵感。
So while you listen to our incredible sponsors, I'm gonna ask, please share this incredible advice and inspiration that Seth is giving to you right now.
把这个节目转发给其他可能今天也需要同样激励的人，因为帮助别人不仅会帮到他们，也会反过来帮助你自己。
Send this episode to someone else who might need the same push today because it's not only gonna help them, when you help somebody else, it helps you right back.
说到回来，塞思和我将在短暂的广告后等你们回来。
And speaking of being right back, Seth and I are gonna be waiting for you after this short break.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
我是你们的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯，今天我和你们一起与杰出的畅销书作家塞思·戈丁对话。
It's your buddy Mel Robbins, and today you and I are talking with the incredible best selling author Seth Godin.
所以塞思，我们不断回到的话题是‘你’，选择你自己，任命你自己。
So Seth, what we keep coming back to is the you, the picking you, the hiring yourself.
我知道在这背后，你最终并不是为了任何人去上护理学校。
And I know that underneath this is that ultimately you're not necessarily going to nursing school for anybody.
你上护理学校是为了你自己。
You're going to nursing school for you.
然后呢？
And And?
你之所以会喜欢做这件事，很大一部分原因在于它能改善他人的生活。
A big part of why you're gonna like doing that is the way you make other people's lives better.
这并不是一种自私的、安·兰德式的观念，认为永远只做对自己有利的事。
This is not some selfish Ayn Randian thing of always do what's for you.
因为大多数普通人，对你有利的事，就是那个听懂笑话的人的反应。
Because most normal people, what's for you is the reaction someone who gets the joke has.
对吧？
Right?
在百老汇演出中，你需要很长时间才会对谢幕时的掌声感到厌倦。
So it takes a long time of being in a Broadway show before you're tired of the applause at the end of the show.
掌声并不是为了让你知道自己演得好。
The applause isn't for you to know you did a good job.
你早就知道自己演得好。
You knew you did a good job.
它是为了让某人参与、连接，让那里发生一些事情。
It's for someone to engage, to connect, to make something happen there.
哦，我想我刚刚明白了什么。
Oh, I think I just got something.
所以，你之所以在坐着面对你想要做的事情、想要做出的改变，或你希望生活变得更好的方式时感到如此痛苦，是因为在做这些事的过程中，你的身心灵都清楚地知道：当你克服了阻力、不再自我阻碍，真正表达出你的生命力时——无论你是通过创办一个社区花园、重返校园、改变自我照顾的方式、在离婚或失去所爱之人后重新进入约会世界——我们内心深处都明白，你现在的生活中缺失了一种深刻的联结，而这种联结唯有通过做这件对你而言重要的事才能感受到。
So one of the reasons why you feel so tortured as you're sitting there with this thing you wanna do or this change you wanna make or the ways in which you wish your life were better is because in doing it, somehow your mind, body, spirit, and soul knows that on the other end of you getting through resistance and out of your own way and really expressing your aliveness, whether it's through a community garden you start or it's going back to school or it's changing the way you take care of yourself or stepping back into the dating world after divorce or losing somebody that you love, that I think deep down we know that there is some profound connection that is missing in your life right now that can only be felt by doing this thing that feels important to you.
而这与另一个让我们停滞不前的词押韵，那就是拒绝。
And it rhymes with another word that's keeping us stuck, is rejection.
如果我把自己暴露出来，也许我会被拒绝。
That if I put myself out there, maybe I'll get rejected.
如果我把自己暴露出来，也许我会被看作一个骗子。
If I put myself out there, maybe I will be seen as the fraud that I am.
如果我把自己暴露出来，也许会发生什么糟糕的事。
If I put myself out there, maybe something bad will happen.
所以，与其去做这件富有善意的事，不如待在这里抱怨，可能反而更轻松。
So it might be easier to just stay here and whine about it than to do this generous act.
我想聊聊我妈妈。
So I wanna talk about my mom.
我每天都想她。
I miss her every day.
她去世得太早了。
She died way too young.
我妈妈最初是志愿者，后来成为布法罗最重要艺术博物馆——奥尔布赖特-诺克斯美术馆的员工，这家博物馆被认为是美国最伟大的艺术博物馆之一。
My mom was a volunteer and then an employee at the most important art museum in Buffalo called the Albright Knox, and it's considered one of the great art museums in America.
当她加入时，博物馆商店还不是一个概念。
And when she got there, the museum store wasn't really an idea.
当时大多数博物馆都没有商店，只卖一些明信片。
Most museums didn't have stores, and they sold some postcards.
她和她的搭档莱塔一起，把商店发展到了原来的十倍规模。
And she took it over and with her partner, Leta, grew it to 10 times the size.
她共同创立了博物馆商店协会，全国的博物馆商店都以这个模式为榜样。
She cofounded the Museum Store Association, and museum stores around the country looked to that thing.
她做的一件事是，她很困扰于布法罗很多人从不去博物馆，因为去那里被视为一种身份象征，而这不是他们成长环境中的常态。
So one of the things that she did was it bothered her that in Buffalo, a lot of people never came to the museum because it was a status thing, and it wasn't the way they were raised.
我妈妈在《寻宝》电视节目播出之前就想出了这个主意。
And my mom came up with this idea before the antiques roadshow was on television.
她请了两位来自苏富比的人来博物馆。
She got two people from Sotheby's to come to the museum.
那是1973年。
It's like 1973.
如果你家阁楼里有古董，就可以让苏富比的这些人来帮你鉴定它们是否有价值。
And if you had antiques in your attic, you were gonna get these people from Sotheby's who would be able to tell you if they were worthwhile.
所以她在周五下班回家时，活动明天就要举行了。
So she comes home from work on Friday and the thing's the next day.
她为这个活动做了一些宣传，但不多。
And she had done a little press for it, but not much.
她当时明显感到不自信，这对她来说很不寻常。
And she was notably insecure, which was unusual for her.
她说，塞思，我有点紧张，因为明天我们要办这个活动，要是没人来怎么办？
And she said, Seth, I'm a little nervous because we're doing this thing tomorrow, and what if no one comes?
然后她转向我，说：如果没人来，也没人会知道没人来。
And then she turned to me and she said, well, if no one comes, no one will know that no one came.
第二天，有五千人排起了长队。
The next day, there were 5,000 people waiting in line.
这太不可思议了。
That's incredible.
但对我来说，这个教训是：如果她只是照着工作说明书上的内容去做，那博物馆现在可能还是个卖明信片的小电话亭。
But the lesson for me was if she had just done what was on the paper in her job, it would still be a little phone booth that sold postcards.
她工作中所引发的所有慷慨循环，都源于她愿意举办一场可能没人会来的活动。
And all the generous cycles that came out of her work happened because she was willing to do an event, and maybe no one's gonna come.
因为她意识到，如果没人来，也没人会知道没人来。
Because she realized if no one comes, no one will know that no one came.
这简直就像那些微小的冲动和想法，是你内心等待实现的东西，而你感受到的阻力，只是用‘安全’当借口。
It's almost like these little pulls and ideas and that thing that's inside you that you're waiting to do that you feel this, like, resistance that you're excuse is you're safe.
这就像我特别喜欢花，因为从一颗小小的种子长成如此惊人、复杂而庞大的东西，真的让我惊叹不已，是的。
It's almost like I I love flowers so much because it just amazes me that from a tiny seed Yeah.
随着时间推移，最非凡、最精妙、最宏大的事物也能绽放出来。
The most extraordinary, intricate, big thing can bloom over time.
这就是我如何看待我们内心那些微小的冲动、种子之类的东西——你根本不知道它们何时会绽放，会开出什么样子，但我们却不让它们被种下。
That's how I visualize these little impulses and seeds and stuff inside of us that you have no idea when it could bloom, what it would bloom into, but we don't allow them to, like, be planted.
我们把它们深深藏在黑暗里。
We keep them deep inside in the dark.
你知道吗，大多数种子不会在袋子、寒冷的棚屋角落里发芽。
Like, you know, most most seeds don't bloom in a bag in the cold in a shed somewhere.
对。
Right.
它们需要被种到开阔的天地里。
They need to be planted out into the open.
你常让人去做的其中一件事，就是追求卓越。
You know, one thing that you ask people to do is to be remarkable.
那意味着什么？
What does that mean?
如果你想产生影响，想成长，想让人们参与进来，就不要对他们大喊大叫。
If you want to make an impact, if you want to grow, if you want people to show up, don't yell at them.
创造一些值得被谈论的东西。
Make something worth making a remark about.
所谓非凡，就是当别人谈论你时，他们会从中受益。
That what it means to be remarkable is someone will benefit if they talk about you.
他们不是因为你才这么做。
They won't do it because of you.
而是因为他们自己才这么做。
They'll do it because of them.
所以，所谓非凡，并不是拼命努力、搞怪表演，或者戴一顶紫色独角兽帽子。
So what it means to be remarkable is not to hustle or put on a weird show or, you know, wear a purple unicorn hat.
而是做一件事，让别人在谈论你时能从中获益。
It means do something that other people will benefit from if they remark about you.
对我来说，这与你如何去做有很大关系。
And to me, that has a lot to do with how you do it.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，
You know
我的意思你明白吗？
what I mean?
你注入其中的个人风格，你对待世界的方式所体现的用心，人们总在寻找那些非凡的事物，但其中很大一部分其实体现在你做事的方式上。
The personal flare that you bring into something, the care that you, you know, do in terms of how you move through the world that it's like, people are looking for the thing that's remarkable, but so much of it is in the way that you operate.
我曾与已故的亚伦·索伦森有过这样的经历，他是第一家非家族成员担任万豪公司首席执行官的人。
I had this experience with the late Aaron Sorenson, who was the first non family member to be the CEO of The Marriott Corporation.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我当时在一个大型活动上对他进行采访。
And I was interviewing him at this massive event.
台下有大约五千名观众。
There were, like, 5,000 people in front of the audience.
当时正是喜达屋与万豪合并的时候。
It was right when Starwood was merging with Marriott.
所有人都在热议他们的积分。
Everyone was going bananas about their points.
所以我们进行了一次非常棒的访谈，他还谈到了品牌。
And so we had this great interview, and he had also talked about the brand.
他认为，品牌的核心在于一种感觉——当你推门而入时，仿佛回到了家，而创造这种体验是每个人的责任。
And that at the heart of the brand was this feeling that you felt like you were being welcomed home when you walked through the door, and that it was everybody's responsibility to create that experience.
总之，谈话结束了，非常精彩。
And so anyway, the conversation's over, it was wonderful.
我们站起来鼓掌，然后准备离场。
And then we stand up, the applause, and we go to head off the stage.
他没有任何张扬的举动，只是静静地转身，拿起我们两人的咖啡杯和两张纸巾，万豪的首席执行官亲自把它们带下了舞台。
And without any fanfare, without anything demonstrative, he quietly turns and picks up both our cups of coffee and the two napkins, and the CEO of Marriott carried them off the stage.
对我来说，这就是你所谈论的例证，因为我曾提到，他这种行为给我留下的印象——关于他的正直以及他作为一个人和领导者的本质——是任何言语都无法表达的。
And to me, that is an example of what you're talking about because I have remarked about the impression that that left on me in terms of his integrity and just who he was as a person and a leader that no words could have done.
我读到过，你经常写到你并不落后，你正在成长。
I have read where you often write you are not behind, you are becoming.
为什么这种心态如此重要？
Why is this an important mindset?
让孩子们表现良好的最佳方法，就是给予积分，然后说积分会被扣除。
So the single best way to get kids to behave is to award points and then to say points will be deducted.
在美国，现在有一个庞大的产业，通过给课堂上表现良好的孩子积分，让他们之后可以兑换甜食。
That there's a huge business in The United States now where they give kids points for behaving in class, which they can trade in for sugary snacks later.
积分是一种绝佳的操控工具。
Points are a wonderful manipulation tool.
当我们想到高中体育时，人们总好像觉得奖杯不够用。
And, you know, when we think about high school sports, they act like there's a trophy shortage.
根本不存在奖杯短缺的问题。
There's no trophy shortage.
高中足球的目的不应该是赢得比赛，因为谁赢并不重要。
The purpose of high school soccer should not be to win the game because it doesn't matter who wins the game.
真正的目的应该是如何成长为我们想成为的人。
The purpose should be how do we develop into the people we'd like to be.
但相比之下，仅仅记录比赛比分作为下一步应做之事的替代品要容易得多。
But it's much easier to just keep score of the game as a a proxy for what should happen next.
我们被这种地位竞争所包围，这导致了许多婚姻矛盾，因为你赚的钱不如街对面的人多，因为他们能去更棒的度假胜地，等等。
So we're surrounded by this status game, and it causes lots of marital strife because you don't make as much money as the people down the street because they have to go on a nicer vacation than us, etcetera.
这之所以进入你的视野，是因为我们生活在一个甚至可以飞往巴黎的世界里。
That's only on your radar because we live in a world where it's possible to even fly to Paris.
三百年前没人会去巴黎度假，所以我们只是不断抬高标准，像棘轮一样，不断设定新的目标。
No one went on vacation to Paris three hundred years ago, so we just keep upping the game, a ratchet, to say, there's a carrot.
这和惩罚是相连的。
It's connected to the stick.
我们必须跑得更快。
We gotta run faster.
这是一个陷阱。
And it's a trap.
另一种选择是问：我想成为怎样的人？
The alternative is to say, who do I seek to become?
不是和谁比较。
Not compared to who.
回到初衷：这一切是为了谁？为了什么？
Back to who's it for, what's it for.
我目前在工作中做的这些，是为了赚得比邻居更多吗？
This work I'm doing at work, is it so I can make more money than my neighbor?
为什么？
Why?
我比邻居赚更多钱能得到什么？
What do I get by making more money than my neighbor?
我不认为这是有用的驱动力。
I don't think that's useful fuel.
我认为，当我们选择动力来源时，我们就是在选择自己正在过的生活。如果选择‘我比你强’这种动力，陷入地位竞争的循环，就永远不会结束。
I think when we choose our fuel, we choose the life we're living, and choosing the fuel of I'm better than you, getting into a status loop, it never ends.
当你在听的时候，如果意识到，天哪。
And if you recognize as you're listening, oh my god.
那就是我。
That's me.
比如，我 obsess 于我邻居的厨房，现在即使我自己的厨房一周前还好好的，我也开始不喜欢了。
Like, I am obsessed with my neighbor's kitchen, and now I don't like my kitchen even though my kitchen was fine a week ago.
但后来我去他们家，看到他们有梦想中的厨房，然后你就陷进去了。
But then I went over to their house, and then they've got the dream kitchen, and then you get into that thing.
一旦你意识到，好吧，赛斯，你说到我心坎里了。
How do you once you recognize, okay, Seth, bingo, you nailed me.
我正处于地位竞争的循环中。
I am in the status loop.
我用错了动力。
I have the wrong fuel.
我到底在用什么填充自己？
What am I filling myself with?
我们先给它命名吧。
Let's name it first.
K。
K.
我要去珠宝店。
I'm going to the jewelry store.
我要去手袋店。
I'm going to the handbag store.
我要去运动用品店，因为我需要买点身份象征。
I'm going to the athletic store because I need to buy some status.
我需要买点保护盔甲。
I need to buy some armor.
我花400美元买运动鞋，而它们其实50美元就能买到，因为这种身份象征对我有帮助。
I'm paying $400 for sneakers I could buy for 50 because the status will help me.
反复说出来它的名字。
Just name it repeatedly.
我这么做是因为我害怕。
I am doing this because I am afraid.
我这么做是因为在高中时，我总觉得自己被排斥，而现在我有机会花这笔钱来避免被排斥。
I am doing this because in high school, I always felt left out, and now I have a chance to spend this money to not feel left out.
如果你把这些话大声说出来，你可能会意识到它们听起来有多荒谬。
If you say these things out loud, you might realize how ridiculous they sound.
所以，说出它的名字。
So name it.
接下来第二点是，我要把目光放在什么上面？
Then the second thing is, what am I gonna rest my eyes on?
我要专注于什么？
What am I gonna focus on?
我们要追踪什么？
What are we keeping track of?
当我们一家人坐下来吃晚饭，互相聊聊一天的情况时，我们会宣布什么、抱怨什么，又会对什么感到高兴呢？
When we sit down to dinner as a family and we talk to each other about our day, what do we announce, and what do we complain about, and what are we glad for?
对吧？
Right?
假设你有一个六岁的孩子。
So let's say you have a six year old.
一个六岁的孩子带回了他们人生中的第一份成绩单，上面有三个A和一个C。
A six year old brings home their very first report card, and they got an a, an a, and a c.
我们该怎么回应？
How do we respond?
为什么我们会在意一个六岁的孩子某门课得了C？
Why do we care that a six year old got a c in something?
我们在意，是因为我们知道十一年后，他们就要开始申请名牌大学了。
We care because we know that in eleven years, they're gonna start applying to famous colleges.
别用‘好大学’这个词。
Don't use the word good colleges.
他们只是名牌大学。
They're just famous colleges.
我们需要在家中建立一个体系，让好成绩变得重要，因为我得在车后贴个贴纸，这个贴纸能显示我是个好妈妈或好爸爸。
And we need to create a system in our house where good grades are important because I'm gonna get a sticker for the back of my car, and that sticker is gonna show I'm a good mom or a good dad.
你不会把这些话大声说出来，但这就是正在发生的事。
You don't say any of those things out loud, but that's exactly what's happening.
我敢肯定，听你这么说的时候，我一直在点头，点头，点头。
I'm sure like, this is something as you're talking, I'm like nodding my head nodding my head nodding my head.
很长一段时间里，我都被地位感驱使着。
And for a very, very long time, I was fueled with the status.
我很痛苦，因为我一直在追逐那些我以为其他体面人拥有、但我买不起的东西。
I was miserable because I was chasing all the things that I thought all the other fancy people had that I couldn't afford.
不断努力证明自己足够好、能融入其中、不落下风的循环，让人精疲力尽。
And the endless cycle of trying to prove that we were good enough, that we were fitting in, that we were keeping up was exhausting.
我记得当我终于开始这么做时，当时我并没有意识到，但你所说的正是这样——给它命名，听起来很傻，但我真的对我的孩子说：‘我们不做那事，因为我们付不起。’
And I remember when I finally just started doing, I didn't realize it at the time, but what you're saying, which is naming it, as dumb as it sounds, I literally just turned to my kid and said, well, we're not doing that because we can't afford it.
我们不去那个度假，因为我们没有那么多钱。
We're not going on that vacation because we don't have that kind of money.
只是把这件事说出口，就化解了大部分压力，因为现在我不再和自己抗争了，我接受了现实，我可以自己决定是否要解决这个问题，但不是因为我觉得必须跟别人攀比，而是因为，嘿，如果我接下来三年认真努力做点副业，攒下一点钱，我们真的能出去玩一周，那感觉会很好。
And just naming it diffused so much of it because now that I'm not in this battle with myself and I'm accepting the reality of it, I can choose whether or not this is a problem that I want to solve for a different reason, not because I feel I need to keep up, but because, boy, like it would feel kinda good if I worked really hard for the next three years on something on the side and saved up a little money that we could actually go away for a week.
那种感觉会很好，但我这么做是为了不同的原因，而不是为了证明什么，那些东西是我被洗脑后以为必须去衡量的。
That would feel good, but I'm doing it for a different reason than to measure something that I've been gaslit into thinking that I need to measure.
是的。
Yeah.
把事情说清楚是关键，我们又回到了‘但是’和‘而且’的问题上。
Naming it is key, and we're back to the but and the and.
对吧？
Right?
我们可以去干那个，或者拥有这个、这个、这个、这个、这个和这个生活。
We could go do that, or we could have this, this, this, this, this, and this in our life.
你觉得哪一个会让我们更快乐？让我们坦诚地和家人聊聊，我们到底能负担得起什么、负担不起什么？
Which one do you think would make us happier that's generous to have an honest conversation with our family about what we can afford and can't afford?
这不再是一种自私的行为。
It's not selfish anymore.
这不应该是我们感到羞愧的事情。
It's not something we should feel ashamed of.
这应该是我们引以为傲的事情，因为我们出现在了需要我们的地方。
Something we should be proud of because we're showing up where we're needed.
我很想谈谈完美主义，因为这在你的作品中对我来说是一个巨大的突破，那就是直接发布它。
I'd love to talk about perfection because this was a huge breakthrough for me in your work and just ship it.
就是别再试图把它做得完美了，直接发布吧。
Like, just stop trying to make it perfect and ship it.
我想你会为我是你的学生而感到自豪，因为《让他们理论》这本书在出版时有大约117个错误，人们 painstakingly 找到了它们并指了出来。
And I think you will be proud since I am a student of yours to know that there were about 117 errors in the Let Them Theory book when it went to print, and people have painstakingly found them and pointed them out.
我为此感到自豪，因为那并不完美。
And I am proud So many that wasn't perfect.
这里有很多值得剖析的地方，因为词语很重要。
So many things to dissect here because the words matter.
好吧？
Okay?
书里有错别字，但这本书的核心理念和交付成果并不是错误。
There were typos in the book, but the concept of the book, the deliverable of the book is not an error.
好吧？
Okay?
我们先从这一点说起。
Let's start with that.
但现在我们来谈谈质量，因为‘质量’这个词含义很丰富。
But now let's talk about quality because quality is a really loaded word.
质量意味着三种不同的东西。
Quality means three different things.
我们来分别讨论它们，因为只有其中一种与完美有关。
So let's talk about each of them because only one of them has to do with perfection.
有一种质量是符合规格的质量。
There is the quality of meeting spec.
这意味着一辆1984年的丰田凯美瑞，它始终能完全实现其应有的功能。
This means that a 1984 Toyota Camry, it does exactly what it's supposed to do all the time.
零件安装得恰到好处。
The parts fit correctly.
这就是质量的全部含义。
That's all quality is.
它符合规格。
It meets spec.
质量 simply 意味着打造一个符合规格的系统。
Quality simply means build a system that meets spec.
所以1969年在底特律，当他们组装汽车时，最后一步中，所有工人都拿着橡胶锤，因为让零件拼合的唯一方法就是用锤子敲打。
So in 1969, in Detroit, when they put together a car, one of the last pieces, all the people there had rubber mallets because the only way to get the pieces to fit together was to hit them with a mallet.
在日本，所有部件都像手表一样严丝合缝。
In Japan, everything fit together like a watch.
是
Was
完美。
perfect.
如果你的规格定义正确，一切都会运行得更好。
If you got the spec right, everything works better.
但这并不意味着你希望超越规格。
But that doesn't mean you you want to be better than the spec.
那是浪费。
That's a waste.
只需符合规格即可。
Just meets spec.
第二种质量是豪华品质。
The second kind of quality is the quality of luxury.
我认为，当我们真正想表达豪华时，却误用了这个词。
This is the word we use, I think, incorrectly when we really mean luxury.
所以劳斯莱斯比凯美瑞更豪华。
So Rolls Royce is a more quality car than a Camry.
不。
No.
只是更豪华而已。
It's just more luxurious.
第三种是我们用来为完美主义找借口的类型。
And the third time is the kind we use as an excuse to be a perfectionist.
你可以找到零缺陷，无论你多么仔细地查找。
And this is you can find zero defects no matter how hard you look.
按这个标准，没有任何东西是完美的。
And by that measure, nothing is perfect.
完美主义的目的不是让它变得更好。
The point of perfectionism is not to make it better.
而是让你无法交付产品。
It's to keep you from shipping it.
你可以吹毛求疵，因为你试图保护自己，而不是因为这东西是为谁做的、有什么用。
You can nitpick because you're trying to protect yourself, not because it's who's it for, what's it for.
所以我从未说过‘直接发布’。
So I have never said just ship it.
我说的是‘仅仅发布’。
I say merely ship it.
这两者是不同的。
They're different.
‘直接发布’意味着这是一堆垃圾。
Just ship it means this is junk.
这很糟糕。
This is crap.
随便吧。
Whatever.
我不在乎。
I don't care.
‘仅仅发布’意味着这已经符合规格。
Merely ship it means this has met spec.
看，我做了这个。
Here, I made this.
不带执着，不带争论，看，我做了这个。
Without attachment, without argument, here, I made this.
在纽约图书出版界，标准是不能有明显的拼写错误，因为那就是他们的标准。
In the world of New York City Book Publishing, the spec is there should be no obvious typos because that's their spec.
这是可以达到的。
It's attainable.
但从来没有人出版过一本完美的书，因为每本书都可以改进。
But no one has ever published a perfect book ever because every book could be improved.
《了不起的盖茨比》里有一个词，如果我们稍微调整一下，就能让这本书更好一点。
There is a word in the great Gatsby that if we shifted it just a little, would make that book a little bit better.
你可以无穷无尽地继续下去。
You could go on forever.
这正是完美主义的症结所在。
That's the point of perfectionism.
我们可以一直说下去。
We could go on forever.
所以我对人们说的话很简单。
So what I say to people is simple.
标准是什么？
What's the spec?
一旦达到这个标准，就结束了。
The minute that is met, it's gone.
只要发布它，我们就转向下一件事，因为我们已经达到了标准。
Merely ship it, we're on to the next thing because we met the spec.
如果你不喜欢这个标准，就制定一个更好的标准。
If you don't like the spec, make a better spec.
这很有趣，因为你提到当你执着于做到完美时，你可以一直做下去，但事实上你根本毫无进展。
Well, it's interesting because you said that when you obsess about getting it perfect, you could go on forever, but the fact is you actually go nowhere.
对。
Right.
当你真正开始接纳你今天所分享的一切时，令人困惑的是，唯一的答案就是行动，开始停止思考。
And the confounding thing when you really start to embrace everything that you're sharing today is that the only answer is to do, to start to stop thinking.
这就是我们成为的样子。
That's how we become.
我们成为我们所做的事情。
We become what we do.
我们不是因为成为了什么才去行动。
We don't do what we become.
如果你
If you
想再次强调，是我们做些什么，从而成为什么
want again, we do we become what
我们成为我们所做的事情。
we We become what we do.
所以，如果你想成为一个诚实的人，那就开始说真话，你就会成为一个诚实的人。
So if you wanna be a truthful person, start telling the truth, and you'll become a truthful person.
看起来如此简单。
It seems so simple.
为什么
Why is
很难呢？
it hard?
梅尔，这太难了。
Mel, it's so hard.
为什么这么难，塞思？
Why is it so hard, Seth?
很难是因为这个过程是这样的。
It's hard because the progression goes like this.
我会犯错。
I will make a mistake.
这会让我感到羞愧。
It will cause me shame.
我会被我的社群排斥。
I will be ostracized from my community.
我会孤独一人，然后死去。
I will be alone, and then I will die.
因此，我们可以在不到两秒内完成整个过程。
And so we can do that whole progression in less than two seconds.
这就是为什么会有情绪表达。
And that's why there's expression.
我是真的觉得自己会死。
Like, I I I was gonna die.
我的牙齿上沾着口红。
There was lipstick on my teeth.
我们就是从牙齿上的口红直接走向了死亡，这就是为什么我要给它命名。
That's how we went from lipstick on my teeth to being dead, and that's why I like to name it.
因为牙齿上沾口红居然会导致你死亡，这实在太荒谬了。
Because it's so absurd that lipstick on your teeth is gonna cause you to be dead.
所以我们必须决定，我们是否把不安全感当作燃料？
And so we have to decide, are we using as fuel insecurity?
我总需要一套更好的衣服。
I always need a better outfit.
我总希望自己再高一点、再瘦一点，说话更得体，等等。
I always need to be a little taller or a little thinner, better spoken, etcetera.
还是我们要采取一种宽厚的心态，说：我出现了。
Or are we gonna adopt a generous mindset that says, I showed up.
我说了些什么，让事情变得更好了。
I said something that made things better.
那就是那一点微光。
That's the speck.
如果你穿着短裤也能做到这一点，那就穿短裤吧，因为短裤和那一点微光毫无关系。
And if you can do that wearing shorts, do it wearing shorts because the shorts have nothing to do with the speck.
这很有趣，因为我立刻想到，你每天醒来或每天结束时都可以对自己说：我今天醒来了，而且做得更好了。
It's interesting because I immediately thought you could wake up every day or end every day by saying, I woke up today, and I did better.
是的。
Yeah.
没人说你做得完美，因为这不真实，但你可能确实做得更好了。
No one says I did perfect because it's not true, but you might have done better.
那我们来谈谈真实吧。
So let's talk about authenticity.
我们可以吗？
Can we do that?
好。
Yeah.
我们来谈谈真实吧。
Let's talk about authenticity.
真实是个幌子。
Authenticity is a crock.
它是个
It's a
你什么意思说真实性是个骗局？
What do you mean authenticity is a crock?
这是一种虚构。
It's a fiction.
没人希望你真实。
No one wants you to be authentic.
也许你的最好的朋友会，但除此之外没人会。
Maybe your best friend, but nobody else.
你是我认识的最真实的人。
You're the most authentic person I know.
这就是我喜欢你的原因。
That's why I like you.
我只是始终如一。
I'm consistent.
等等。
Wait.
等等。
Wait.
你是有原则的。
You're consistent.
所以，保持一致就是真实的秘诀吗？
So is the secret to being authentic being consistent?
服务他人的秘诀在于保持一致。
The secret of being of service is to be consistent.
让我问你一个问题，梅尔。
So let me ask you a question, Mel.
是的。
Yeah.
今年你有没有哪一天状态特别差，有点烦躁，不是最好的自己？
Did you ever have a day this year where you were just really off, a little cranky, not your best?
我管那叫星期二。
I call that Tuesday.
当你状态不好、站在麦克风前录制节目时，你是真实地表现出烦躁和低效的一面，还是展现出了你所能达到的始终如一的神奇版梅尔·罗宾斯？
So when you were like that and you got behind the microphone to record an episode, were you authentically cranky and subpar, or did you show up as the consistently magical version of Mel Robbins that you're capable of?
我始终如一地出现了。
I showed up consistently.
我不太会这样对待我的家人。
I don't do that with my family as much.
比如，我在家人面前就对自己放宽要求了。
Like, I I let myself off the hook there.
我同意。
I agree.
而且，塞思，我正在努力在这方面变得更好，因为我觉得把最糟糕的自己留给最爱我的人，真的非常糟糕。
And and, you know, Seth, I I I am trying to be better there because I think it's really awful to save the worst of me for the people that love me the most.
所以，真实做自己是给最好的朋友，或者给家人看的。
So authenticity is for your best friend, maybe for someone in your family.
他们希望从你身上看到的就是这个。
That's what they want from you.
但其他人希望你做的，是让你的故事成为真实的。
But what everyone else wants from you is for you to make the story of you true.
如果你需要做心脏手术，天啊，你绝不会希望医生只做一次‘真实的’手术。
And if you need heart surgery, god forbid, you don't want the surgeon to do an authentic job.
你希望他们每次都做到卓越非凡。
You want them to do a consistently amazing job.
这就是你雇佣他们的原因。
That's why you hired them.
我可以继续列举下去。
And I can go down the list.
所谓专业，就是做出承诺并信守承诺。
What it means to be a professional is to make a promise and keep it.
所以我穿这件白大褂，每天上班时都穿着。
So the reason I wear this smock, I wear it every day when I'm at work.
因为当我牵着狗去上班时，我只是赛斯·戈丁，一个普通的小人物。
Because when I go to work walking there with my dog, I'm Seth Godin, small s, small g.
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