The One Tool to Transform Your Relationships: The Let Them Theory

好的。

Okay.

大概每小时40美元，因为“随他们去”理论是我几个月前偶然发现的。

Like, $40 an hour because, the Let Them Theory, I had stumbled upon it many months ago.

我在网上分享过。

I had shared it online.

它一下子就爆火了。

It had gone crazy viral.

我们为此做了一期播客，那期节目成了当年苹果播客上分享次数第六多的节目。

We had done one podcast episode about it, and that podcast episode became the sixth most shared episode on all of Apple Podcasts of the year.

所以当一件事火成这样，我就想，我得深入挖掘一下，得弄明白为什么它能引起这么大的共鸣。

And so when something goes that crazy, I'm like, I need to dig in deeper, and I need to understand why is this resonating?

为什么人们会去纹身，纹上“随他们去”这几个字？

Why are people getting tattoos that say let them?

在我决定写一本关于这个理论的书之前，先深入研究一下，看看你们大家告诉我们的“随他们去”理论的力量到底是什么。

Before I commit to writing a book about this thing, let's dig into the research and see what all of you are telling us the power of the Let Them Theory is.

所以我本来打算雇个人来做这件事，因为我自己心里很清楚。

And so I was gonna hire somebody to do it, and so I thought because I was very clear.

你不想为我工作。

You don't wanna work with work for me.

你一直说，你不想为我工作。

You've always said, I don't wanna work for you.

你不想为我工作。

I don't wanna work for you.

这一点我很尊重。

Which I respect.

你想走自己的人生路。

You wanna have your own path in life.

我完全同意。

Absolutely agree with that.

完全走你自己的路。

Absolutely follow your own path.

但我就想，好吧。

But I was like, okay.

我们俩都有个问题。

We both have a problem.

看看能不能一起解决。

Let's see if we can solve it together.

于是你接了这个项目，我记得是每小时40美元，做一个为期两周的快速调研。我把那个最初爆火的东西给你，大概六十秒的视频，还把播客那期也给了她。

And so you took on this project, $40 an hour, I think it was, to do a quick research project for two weeks where I gave you the thing that had gone viral initially, like a sixty second thing, and I gave her the podcast episode.

我说，我想让你深入看看评论。

And said, I want you to dig into the comments.

我本以为你两周后回来，能给我几页分析报告，但结果完全不是这样。

And I expected you to come back within two weeks and kinda give me a couple pages of analysis, but that's not what happened.

不到27小时，Sawyer就搞出了一份，怎么说呢，36页的文档，是一个带彩色下拉菜单和来源链接的Excel表格，不仅有36页的引用、分析、颜色编码和下拉菜单，还有两页的摘要，里面还提到她说，妈，你不能写这本书。

Within twenty seven hours, Sawyer produced a, like, I don't know, 36 page document that was a active Excel table with color coded drop down menus and source links, including not only the 36 pages of citation and analysis and color coding and drop down menus, but a two page synopsis, which also included the fact that she said, mom, you can't write this book.

因为我在评论里看到，90%的内容都很棒，但10%的人说，我在说‘随他们去吧’，而我真的很孤独。

Because what I'm seeing in the comments is 90% of it's amazing, but 10% of people are saying, I'm saying let them, and I'm really lonely.

我说随他们去，然后我发现朋友们都不回我电话了。

I'm saying let them, and I see that my friends don't call me back.

我说随他们去，然后我发现自己是家里唯一在付出努力的人。

I'm saying let them, and I see I'm the one in my family that makes all the effort.

我们不能写一本让人感到孤独的书。

We cannot do a book about something that makes people lonely.

必须得有第二部分。

There has to be a second part.

就在她跟我说这些的时候，我手里正拿着那厚厚一叠资料，看起来就像某个营销工程师用AI做出来的东西。

Now meanwhile, as she's saying this to me, I'm holding this very thick packet of information that looks like some sort of marketing engineer has used AI to create.

我看着你，心里想，天哪。

And I'm looking at you, and I'm thinking, oh my god.

我觉得我这辈子第一次真正理解了你大脑的运作方式。

I think for the first time in your life, I actually understand the way your brain works.

你那双明亮的蓝眼睛、漂亮的耳朵和笑容背后，基本上就像装了一台超级计算机，一直在处理数据。

That you basically have a supercomputer between those bright blue eyes and those beautiful, like, ears and smile that is crunching data all the time.

如果你没有一个庞大的项目来瞄准，你就会把矛头对准自己。

And if you don't have a monster of a project to aim it at, you aim it at yourself.

这让我差点哭出来，因为我立刻明白了你为什么对自己那么苛刻，为什么总是沉浸在自己的思绪里。

And it made me wanna cry because I understood immediately why you're so hard on yourself and why you're always in your head.

我的第一反应是，天哪。

And reaction that I had was, holy shit.

我得想办法让她为我工作，因为这家伙是个天才。

I gotta figure out how she can work for me because this kid is a genius.

我从来没见过有人像这样做研究。

I've never seen anybody do research like this before.

我也从来没见过这么有条理的东西。

I have never seen something organized like this before.

分析非常到位，我可以直截了当地告诉你，这就是为什么“随他们去”理论有两个步骤。

The analysis was spot on, and I will tell you point blank that the reason why the Let Them Theory has two steps.

第一步就是，随他们去。

Step one being say, let them.

“让他们”就是让你不再试图控制别人，让他们做自己。

And let them is where you detach from controlling another person, and you let them be who they are.

而第二步，百分之百是因为索耶。

And step two is 1000% because of Sawyer.

第二步就是“让我”。

And step two is let me.

也就是说“让我”，然后把自己引向真相——在任何关系、生活或事业中，你唯一能控制的就是你自己。

And that's where you say let me and you direct yourself to the truth, which is the only thing that you can control in any relationship or your life or your career is you.

你的反应、你的想法、你的言语、你的行动，以及你如何处理情绪。

Your response, what you think, what you say, what you do, how you process your emotions.

这就是你为自己的生活承担责任的地方。

And that's where you get to take responsibility for your life.

所有的掌控力和力量都来源于此。

That's where all the control and power comes.

因为当你说“让我”时，你是在提醒自己，弄清楚自己想做什么是你的责任，而且我们来聊聊

Because when you say let me, you're reminding yourself that it's both your responsibility to figure out what you wanna do, and let's talk about

这个词

the word

责任。

responsibility.

责任其实就是回应的能力。

Responsibility just means the ability to respond.

在我们这里，‘让他们理论’最不可思议的一点是，它不仅阻止了你我去试图控制对方，而且我们还会对彼此说‘让他们去’、‘让他们去’、‘让他们去’。

And in our case, one of the things that has been absolutely unbelievable around the Let Them Theory is that it's not only stopped you and me from trying to control the other person, but in saying let them, let them, let them to each other.

当索耶看起来很紧张时，我会说‘让他们去’。

I say let them when Sawyer seems intense.

当索耶对我生气时，我会说‘让他们去’。

I say let them when Sawyer seems pissed off at me.

当索耶双臂交叉、一副防御姿态时，我会说‘让他们去’。

I say let them when Sawyer kinda has that crossed armed vibe.

然后我会说‘让我来’。

And then I say let me.

让我来决定现在该怎么表现。

Let me decide how I'm gonna show up right now.

有些时候，我会选择走向你，让你知道我在你身边。

And there are moments where I choose to step toward you and to try to make sure you know that I'm here.

还有些时候，我会说，让我给她一点空间吧。

And then there are moments where I say, let me just give her space.

与其过度干涉她，觉得她出了什么问题，不如尊重她作为一个25岁的成年人，她有权经历生活中可能充满挑战的事情，我不需要插手去扮演母亲的角色。

Instead of micromanaging her and thinking something's wrong, let me just respect her as a 25 year old human being who is allowed to have experiences in life that may be challenging, and I don't need to step in and mother her.

我不需要插手去窒息她。

I don't need to step in and smother her.

我只需要让她做自己。

I can just let her.

让她现在对工作充满热情，因为事情确实很多。

Let her be intense about work right now because there's a lot going on.

总之，你同意加入并帮我写《让他们理论》这本书。

And so long and the short of it is, you agreed to step on and help me write The Let Theory book.

我还是不敢相信。

I still can't believe it.

你为什么不敢相信呢？

Why can't you believe it?

我又不是作家。

I am not a writer.

嗯，我不同意你的说法，但请继续。

Like, I am not I beg to differ, but go ahead.

我只记得你说，索耶，我觉得我们得一起写这本书。

And I just remember you saying, Sawyer, I think we need to write this book together.

在喜欢上那个研究项目之后，我就答应了，说好吧，但不是全职。

And after loving the research project, I signed up and said, okay, but not full time.

我会在边上帮忙，做个合同工。

I will be on the side, and I will be a contractor.

然后我就……这还没完呢。

And then I was This still

这一点真的很重要。

is really important.

因为我必须得好好夸夸你，你设界限的能力太强了。

Because I gotta I gotta give you massive props for boundaries.

所以注意看她在做什么。

So notice what she's doing.

因为事情是这样的。

Because here's the thing.

在任何关系中，当关系开始发生变化时，它不会一下子就变。

In any relationship, when things start to shift, it doesn't shift like that.

你和你生活中的人之间的这些互动模式，无论是你的母亲、父亲、姐妹、兄弟，还是你的成年子女。

These dynamics between you and the people in your life, whether it's your mother or your father or your sister or your brother or maybe it's your adult kids.

这些模式已经存在了很长时间。

These dynamics have been in place for a very long time.

你们彼此之间都有各自的故事。

You both have stories about each other.

首先，你得愿意问问自己，我到底想要什么？

And you gotta be willing to, first of all, go, well, what do I actually want?

我知道我现在拥有什么。

I know what I have.

我真正想要的是什么？

What do I actually want?

其实，在《让他们理论》这本书和“让他们、让我自己”这些方法出现之前，我们在一起玩得很开心。

And the thing is before the Let Them Theory book and before the tools of Let Them and Let Me, we had a lot of fun together.

我们可以一起喝酒、聚会、狂欢。

We could get drunk and hang out and party.

我们可以出去吃饭。

We can go out to dinner.

我们可以和其他人一起参加母女旅行，然后发照片。

We can go on mother daughter trips with everybody else and post all the photos.

但在所有这些表面之下，总有一种感觉：我不是她的优先考虑，她不理解我，因为她总是在工作，我只能靠自己，爸爸才是那个陪着我的人，而不是她。

But underneath all the veneer, there is that sense of I'm not a priority, and this doesn't understand me because she's always working, and I gotta do it on my own, and and dad's the one that's there for me, not her.

我当时就有种感觉，不管我怎么做，Sawyer都不会对我热络起来。

And I had this sense of I no matter what I do, Sawyer's never gonna warm up to me.

我知道她爱我，但她刻意保持距离，不让我走进她的内心，我能感觉到。

Like, I know she loves me, but she is intentional about needing to separate and not let me in, and I can feel it.

你能感觉到，就像生活中有人双臂交叉、剑拔弩张，只有她想让你靠近的时候，或者喝了几杯龙舌兰之后，才会让你靠近。

Like, you can feel it when somebody in your life is like arms crossed, swords up, I'll let you in when I feel like it, or I've had a couple tequilas.

生活中就是有这样的人。

Like, it's just there's people in your life like that.

你竖起这些防线可能是有充分理由的，因为他们伤害过你，因为他们不可预测。

And you may have good reason to have those boundaries up because they've hurt you and because they're not predictable.

随着我越来越多地自我成长，你也开始自我成长，我们俩都清楚，我们只想抛开那些隔阂，更亲近一些，就在这时，转机出现了。

And the more that I was working on myself and the more you started working on yourself and the more we both knew we just wanted to be closer without the bullshit between us, that's where the opening happens.

但首先，你得下定决心，为了体验不一样的东西，我要改变自己心里讲的那个故事。

But first, you gotta decide, I wanna change the story here that I'm telling myself for the sake of experiencing something different.

那时候，我并没有抱着“我要改善和妈妈的关系”这样的心态。

And at this point, I was not in the mindset, I'm doing this to improve my relationship with my mom.

说实话，我当时根本不是抱着这个目的去的。

Like, that is not what I was going into this.

我就是需要点钱，而她正好有。

It was I need some moolah, and she's got it.

所以我想说清楚，这根本不是一次有意识的自我探索，也不是为了改善我和我妈的关系。

So so I just wanna put that out there that this was not in a intentional self discovery, I need to improve my relationship with my mother.

是我妈把它包装成一个跳板。

This was how my mom marketed it was this is a launching pad.

我说，行啊。

And I said, great.

听起来像是为了什么？

It sounds For?

为了去纽约。

For New York

对。

Yes.

还有，为了你的下一个项目。

And for your next gig.

你想学多少就学多少。

And you can learn as much as you want.

你想待多久就待多久。

You can stay for as long as you want.

没有任何限制，但我确实需要有人帮忙做这个项目。

There is no guardrails, but I really need some help with this project.

所以，你想待多久都行，由你决定，我们可以马上开始。

So for however long you wish, it's up to you, and we can get started.

我当时就说，好吧，但我绝对不会全职做。

And I had said, okay, fine, but I'm never gonna be full time.

随他们去吧。

Let them.

我觉得这特别好笑，因为从小到大，我妈几乎每周都会说一次，我真等不及要……

And I think it's so hilarious because growing up, every single week, I think mom would say once a week, I just can't wait to have

一个家族企业。

a family business.

我特别希望你们能参与家族企业，因为我亲眼看到这让我妈妈家在纽约州北部一直保持紧密联系。

I wanted so desperately for you guys to be part of a family business because I saw how that kept my mom's family in close proximity in Upstate New York.

我只是觉得这个世界太忙碌了。

And I just figured the world is so busy.

要是大家能一起工作，把我们聚在一起，那该多好啊？

How cool would it be to all have work to keep us together?

而且因为工作是数字化的、有趣的、媒体相关的，你们可以做很多不同的事情。

And since the work is digital and interesting and media, there's lots of different things you could do.

所以我一直觉得，我为什么要让别人来经营这个企业呢？

So I always saw it as why would I want someone else to run this business?

我为什么不希望你们中的一个人来经营呢？一起工作不是更好的方式让我们在一起吗？

Why wouldn't I want one of you to run this business, and what a better way to be able to be together than to work together?

我得说，看到你作为同事的经历是一份特别的礼物，因为我得以了解你的思维方式。

And I will say the experience of seeing you as a colleague has been an extraordinary gift because I get to see how your mind works.

我能看到你在和Audible、Hay House、公关团队以及《今日秀》开会时的样子，能看到你完全不同的一面，这真的太棒了。

I get to see you in meetings with Audible and Hay House and the PR teams and the Today Show, and it's just incredible to get to see a completely different dimension of who you are.

我觉得，如果你有孩子、兄弟姐妹或父母是运动员、艺术家，或者从事能让你看到他们这一面的工作，你就会明白我在说什么。

And I think if you've got a kid or a sibling or a parent that is an athlete or they're an artist or they do something where you can see this side of them, you know what I'm talking about.

但对于我们这些不表演的人来说，谁知道你的技能是像超级计算机一样的大脑，能做数字营销、项目管理，还能当业务负责人呢？

But for those of us that don't perform, like, who knew your skill was a supercomputer brain that can do digital marketing and project management and be a business lead?

这些能力小时候是看不出来的。

Like, that doesn't come out when you're little.

如果不是我们一起写这本书的经历，我可能永远也不会在你身上发现这一点。

And I probably would never have seen it in you but for the fact that we had this experience of writing the book together.

我这么说是因为我特别喜欢一个想法：你以为你了解的人，其实你并不真正了解。你爱的人还有你从未体验过的另一面，无论是艺术天赋、写诗的才华，还是在森林里超强的方向感，能带你到任何地方。我们给自己讲的那些关于最熟悉的人的故事，会让我们困在与那个版本的对方的关系里。

And I'm saying this because I love thinking you don't know the people you think you know, that there's a whole different side of the person that you love that you've never even experienced before, whether it's artistic talent or a knack for writing poetry or they're an incredible sense of direction out in the woods and they can guide you anywhere, that the stories that we tell ourselves about the people that we know the best trap us in a relationship with that version of the person.

这限制了你用新的眼光去体验一个人的能力。

And it limits your ability to experience someone in a new light.

这也是为什么我们很多人爱朋友胜过爱家人的原因之一。

It's one of the reasons why so many of us love our friends so much more than our family.

因为朋友会走进又走出我们的生活，看到我们在外面的样子，而家人几乎从来不会这样。

Because our friends come in and out of our lives and experience us out in the world, and our family almost never does.

家人仍然用我们在那个家庭系统里的样子来看待我们——是乖孩子、捣蛋鬼，或者别的什么角色——然后你就会开始怨恨，为什么别人看不到完整的你。

Our family still experiences us as we were inside that family system as the golden child or the troublemaker or the one that's this, and you start to resent the fact that people don't see you for your full self.

而过去这一年，我和你的关系就经历了这样的转变。

And that's what this experience this past year has done with my relationship with you.

这也是为什么“随他们去”理论和说“随他们去”、说“让我来”能彻底改变你的人际关系。

And it's also why the let them theory and saying let them and saying let me is a game changer in your relationships.

因为当你开始说“随他们去”，尤其是对家人说的时候，你就为自己创造了空间，去接受他们本来的样子，甚至可能第一次真正看清他们是谁。

Because when you start to say let them, especially with family, It creates the space for you to accept someone as they are and perhaps start seeing them for who they are for the very first time.

不再评判、期待、操心或担忧，当你说“随他们去”时，你做到了每个人都想要的——真正学会接纳别人，而不是试图控制他们。

Instead of judging or wishing or managing or worrying, when you say let them, you do what everybody wants, which is you truly learn how to accept somebody instead of trying to control them.

然后当你说“让我来”时，你就是在提醒自己，你可以选择如何与这个人相处。

And then when you say let me, you're now cueing yourself and reminding yourself that you get to choose how you show up with this person in your life.

你选择带来什么样的能量。

What energy you bring.

你明白吗？

You know?

你会问什么样的问题？

What what sort of questions you ask?

当你开始关注自己带来的能量，以及如何与那些你以为最了解的人相处时，这就会产生连锁反应，带来改变。

And when you start to focus on the energy that you bring and how you show up with the people that you think you know best, that's what creates the ripple effect that creates change.

当我们开始一起工作后，我终于理解了你所做的一切，以及你在过去二十五年里经历的所有事情。

When we started working together, I finally understood everything that you do and everything that you have gone through in the past twenty five years that I've been alive.

我当时心里充满了感激和同情，对你每天所做的一切，以及你所承受的压力和负担——我现在也正在经历这些。

And I just had such an overwhelming, like, appreciation and compassion for everything that you do on a daily basis and how much stress and overload, which I am now experiencing, you experience.

这真的是……

And it's

经营这么大的一家公司。

Running a business this size.

是的。

Yes.

没人知道这家公司有多大。

It's No one knows how big this business is.

这太疯狂了。

It is insane.

说实话，我真的觉得肯德尔·奥克利或者爸爸永远不会知道你承受了多少，我以前也永远不会知道。

And, like, I genuinely don't think Kendall Oakley or dad will ever know how much you go through, and I would never know how much you go through.

还有所有依赖你的人，所有需要你关注、需要你付出的人，我觉得这真的帮我站在你的角度和立场去看问题。

And every thing everyone that is relying on you and needing your attention and needing things from you, and I think that that also really helped me basically look through your frame of reference and your lens.

我觉得这让我对你有了更多的同情、更多的理解，还有更多的感激。

And I think it just allowed me to have so much more compassion for you and so much more understanding and just appreciation.

当我真正看到公司内部的情况，设身处地为你着想之后，我才意识到，我需要换一种方式出现，我要为她加油。

And once I saw, like, the internal side of the business and truly put myself in your shoes, I think it's only then that I was like, I need to show up differently, and I wanna cheer for her.

我不想给她喝倒彩。

I don't want to boo her.

现在我明白了。

And now I understand.

这一点非常重要，这也引出了我想对听众们说的一个要点。

It's such an important point, and this brings me to kind of a takeaway for you listening.

那就是，如果你想改变与某个你在乎的人之间的叙事、故事或关系动态，尤其是如果你已经认识他们很久了，你必须真正愿意站在他们的角度去思考。

And it's if you wanna change the narrative or the story or the dynamic with somebody that you care about, especially if you've known them for a long time, you have to truly want to step into their shoes.

我们详细讨论过我从朋友丽莎·比约那里学到的这个叫“参照系”的工具，以及如何把它和“随他们去理论”结合起来使用。

And we talk about this tool called frame of reference that I learned from my friend Lisa Billieux at length and how you use it with the Let Them Theory.

但我会给你举几个简单的例子，因为这真的很重要。

But I'm gonna give you a couple quick examples because this is really important.

最近有人对我说，我不明白为什么我的孩子们会因为我们在选举中投票给谁而生气。

I recently heard somebody say to me, you know, I don't understand why my kids are upset by who we voted for in the election.

我对他们说，我觉得你问的问题不对。

And what I said to them is, I don't think you're asking the right question.

因为你刚才对我说的是，我不明白他们为什么生我的气。

Because you just said to me, I don't understand why they're upset with me.

也许问题应该是，我需要站在他们的角度去理解他们为什么可能生我的气。

Maybe the question needs to be, I need to step into their shoes to try to understand why they might be upset with me.

所以我觉得我们总是站在自己的立场上，看着别人，然后评判他们，说‘我不明白他们为什么会这样’。

So I think we stand on our side of the line and we look at somebody else and we judge them and say, well, I don't understand why they're like this.

你有没有停下来问过自己：‘我想知道我妈妈当时是什么感受？’

Have you ever stopped and asked yourself, I wonder what it was like for my mom.

我想知道我姐姐当时是什么感受。

I wonder what it was like for my sister.

我想知道我弟弟当时是什么感受。

I wonder what it was like for my little brother.

我们太沉浸在自己的经历里，以至于开始构建一个故事，却从未真正想要去换位思考。

We're so consumed with our experience that we start to build a narrative around it, but we never actually even want to step in and consider.

我记得我和妈妈的关系在我停下来问自己‘我妈妈19岁时是什么感受？’的那一刻立刻改变了。她当时在堪萨斯城中部，嫁给了刚开始读医学院的我爸，刚生完孩子，晚上还要在国税局工作，她的家人远在半个国家之外，只有她和刚开始读医学院的我爸。

And I remember my relationship with my mom shifted immediately the second I stopped to ask myself, wonder what it was like for my mom to be 19 years old in the middle of Kansas City, married to my dad who was starting medical school, and here she has a newborn and she's working nights at the IRS, her family is halfway across the country, it's just her and my dad who's starting medical school.

她是个新手妈妈。

She's a brand new mom.

她身边只有她的朋友。

She's just got her friend.

我在想那会是什么感觉。

I wonder what that was like.

当你停下来，设身处地地站在别人的角度去想，你会发现大多数人并不是什么怪物。

And when you stop and step in someone else's shoes, what you realize is most people are not monsters.

大多数人都在用他们拥有的资源和人生经历，尽自己最大的努力去生活。

Most people are doing the best that they can with the resources and the life experience that they have.

用阿瓦隆医生的话来说，人只有在有能力的时候才能做得好。

In the words of doctor Avalon, people do well when they can.

我们总是从自己的角度去评判别人，然后双手抱胸坐在那里想：我不明白为什么我妈对我这么生气。

And we tend to judge from our point of view, and then we sit there and cross our arms and go, I don't understand why my mom's so upset with me.

我不明白为什么我姐姐那么自私。

I don't understand why my sister's so selfish.

我不明白为什么……那你有没有停下来问过自己：我想知道那个人到底经历了什么？

I don't understand why well, have you stopped and asked yourself, I wonder what it must be like to be that person.

如果我假设对方是善意的，我想知道那会是什么样子。

If I assume good intent, I wonder what that must be like.

因为希望别人理解你，和真正花心思去理解他们为什么那样想，这两者是有区别的。

Because there's a difference between wishing someone would understand you and actually taking the time and being interested in understanding why they might think the way that they think.

当你和某个人——兄弟姐妹、父母、成年子女——处于一段关系中，积累了太多包袱，以至于每次打电话、发短信、任何互动都带着这些情绪时，我希望你想象一下，你身边就停着一辆搬家卡车。

And when you're in a relationship with somebody, a sibling, a parent, an adult child, where you have got so much baggage built up, like, are literally pulling up to any conversation on the phone, any text message, any anything, I want you to imagine you have a freaking U Haul next to you.

里面装满了所有发生过的事，所有那些千刀万剐般的伤害。

You got everything that's ever happened, all the death by a thousand cuts.

你们俩都被困在这个局面里。

You're both kinda locked in this.

其实只需要一个人就能改变这种互动模式。

It just takes one person to change the dynamic.

但问题是。

But here's the thing.

如果你是那个去接受心理治疗的人，是那个听播客的人，是那个读《Let Them Theory》这本书的人，是那个开始让自己冷静下来、在关系中表现得像个更成熟的成年人、更有爱心的人，是那个使用这些工具并对自己说“我想知道我妈当时是什么情况”或“我想知道我妹妹当时经历了什么”或“我想知道我爸爸当时是什么感受”的人，当你设身处地为他们着想时，不要指望对方也会做同样的事。

If you're the one that goes to therapy, if you're the one that listens to the podcast episodes, if you're the one that reads the Let Them Theory book, if you're the one that starts to calm yourself down and act like a more mature adult in the relationship, more loving person, if you're the one that's using the tools and you're saying, I wonder what it was like when my mom was such and such, or I wonder what it must have been like for my little sister, or I wonder what it was like for my dad, and you step into their shoes, do not expect the other person to do the same thing.

因为指望别人能跟上你现在的成长步伐，和你一起学习、一起面对生活，除非他们自己也付出了努力，否则是不可能的。

Because expecting someone else to meet you at the same level that you are now trying to learn about and meet yourself and go through life, they cannot do that unless they've done the work.

我们在《让他们理论》这本书里详细讨论过这一点，实际上，这本书分为八个部分，其中一部分专门讲的是，我们试图改变别人、期待他们改变，反而会让关系陷入僵局。

And what we write about extensively in the Let Them Theory book in fact, the book is divided into eight sections, and one of the sections is all about how our attempts to make other people change and our expectations that they should keeps the dynamic stuck.

所以，这件事最难的地方在于，没错，你确实可以改变关系的动态。

And so the hardest part about all of this is that, yes, you can change the dynamic.

这毫无疑问。

No question.

绝对可以。

Absolutely.

而且你只需要你自己。

And all you need is you.

你不需要对方的配合，因为你的行为和情感成熟度本身就很有力量，足以影响关系的动态。

You do not need the other person's participation because your behavior and your emotional maturity is so powerful that it influences the dynamic.

如果运气好的话，随着时间的推移，它还能改变关系的动态。

And if you're lucky, over time, it changes the dynamic.

我希望你这样来理解这件事。

And I want you to think about it this way.

假设你和某人的关系非常紧张。

Let's say you have a really antagonistic relationship with somebody.

每次通电话或见面，就像你们都开着装满行李的U-Haul拖车赶来。

Every time you get on the phone or you see each other, it's like you both pull up in your U Haul trailers with all the baggage.

你们都希望这次能好一点，但这段关系就像一场拔河比赛。

You both hope it goes better, but the relationship is a lot like a tug of war.

你们各自抓起绳子，把它拴在拖车上，然后开始互相拉扯，带着所有的行李和重量。

You each pick up the rope, you hook it to the U Haul, and now you're pulling each other with all the baggage and the weight.

赢得拔河最快的方法其实就是直接放手。

The fastest way to win the tug of war is to actually just drop the rope.

别玩了。

Don't play.

随他们去。

Let them.

让他们自己拉吧。

Let them tug.

别往回拽。

Don't tug back.

然后对方就会开始发脾气。

And what's gonna happen is the person's gonna tantrum.

对方会说些难听的话。

The person's gonna say flipping things.

哦，这就是你在那儿学到的？

Oh, is this what you learned in there?

你现在是在用那套心理学的说法来对付我吗？

Is this therapy speak that you're using on me now?

让他们说去。

Let them say it.

我不知道，妈。

I don't know, mom.

就是受够了这种紧张的气氛。

Just tired of the tension.

真的很想和你有更好的关系，所以我正在努力。

Really would love to have a better relationship with you, so I'm trying.

哦，随他们去吧。

Oh, let them.

因为他们还不知道怎么适应这种新的相处模式。

Because they don't know how to operate in the new dynamic yet.

他们还是放不下那些包袱和旧故事。

They're still committed to the baggage and the story.

他们根本不知道还有别的可能。

They don't know anything different.

而现在你表现得不一样了，你更冷静了，不再较劲，不再反击，只是坦然面对，你很清楚自己想改变这种关系模式。

And now that you're showing up different, you're calmer, you're not pulling on the rope, you're not stabbing back, you're just showing up, you're clear that you wanna shift the dynamic.

每次他们说出那些平时会让你火冒三丈的话，你就对自己说，随他们去吧。

Every time they say something that would normally agitate the hell out of you, just say, let them.

我要提醒自己，就算他们表现得像个八岁小孩，我也不是他们的家长，管理这些不是我的责任。

And let me remind myself that even when they act like an eight year old, I'm not their parent, and it's not my job to manage this.

那就随他们去吧。

So let them.

当你保持自己的主动权，并且一次又一次地这样做，你生活中的人就会展现出他们能在多大程度上跟上你的节奏。

And when you stay in your power and you continue to do it over and over and over, the person in your life reveals how much they can meet you at this level.

你可能会感到惊讶。

And you might be surprised.

你知道吗，我过去和一些人关系很紧张，但现在我有了‘随他们去’理论，我的表现完全不同了。

You know, there are people in my life that I've had antagonistic relationships with, and now that I have the Let Them Theory, and I show up very differently.

我变得更冷静、更有同情心、更善解人意，一旦嗅到任何压力或敌意的苗头，我就会立刻抽身离开对话，整个关系动态就变了。

And I'm calmer, and I'm more compassionate, and I'm more understanding, and I walk away the second I sniff any kind of stress or antagonism coming, I just remove myself from the conversation, the dynamic's different.

当我设身处地为别人着想时，我会想，那会是什么感觉。

As I step into someone else's shoes and I go, I wonder what it must be like to be.

我会真的从对方的角度在脑海里演绎这个故事——比如那个没结婚的兄弟姐妹，那个生活一团糟的兄弟姐妹，不知道作为被父母支持的那一方是什么感觉。

And I really play out the story in my mind from the other person's point of view, You know, the sibling that didn't get married, the sibling that can't get it together, wonder what it must be like to be the one that mom and dad is supporting.

那种感觉肯定不太好。

That can't feel that great.

你懂吗？

You know?

哇。

Wow.

我……我其实可以更宽容一点。

I I could be a little bit more compassionate here.

也许这件事根本不值得我花时间和精力去烦恼。

Maybe it's not worth my time and energy to actually get bothered by this.

也许我该替对方感到惋惜，觉得他们的人生就是这样，然后随他们去吧。

Maybe I should just bathe myself in feeling sorry for somebody compassionate that this is what their life is like, and just let them.

让我提醒自己，我对自己现在的状态很满意，我为自己是个情感成熟的人感到骄傲。

And let me say, let me remind myself that I'm really proud of where I'm at, and I I'm proud that I'm the emotionally mature person.

你会发现，这需要时间。

And what you're going to notice is it takes time.

因为就像你说的，Sawyer，我觉得你分享的那点很棒——当你生气的时候，你确实引起了我的注意。

Because as you said, Sawyer, and I thought it was a beautiful thing to share, that when you were angry, you got my attention.

你生活中很多人之所以生气、崩溃，或者用被动攻击的方式对待你，就是因为这样能引起你的注意。

And a lot of people in your life are angry, or they're in breakdown, or they treat you in passive aggressive ways because it gets your attention.

这说明了什么？

And what does that tell you?

这说明他们一直以来想要的，只是你的关注而已。

It tells you all they ever wanted was your attention.

也许你可以成为那个拉近距离的人，因为你开始用一种全新的方式去给予他们关注。

And maybe you can be the one that can close this distance because you start giving them the attention in an entirely new way.

当一个人开始感受到被关心，觉得自己得到了你更多的关注时，人的变化往往会让人惊讶。

And when somebody starts to feel tended to and they start to feel like they have a little bit more of your attention, it's kinda shocking how people change.

当然，这并不总是奏效，这一点很重要，得说清楚。

Now it doesn't always happen, and that's something that's important to say.

因为“随他们去”本身并不会改变什么。

Because let them doesn't change things.

它只是为改变创造了空间。

It creates the space for things to change.

这就是为什么这个方法这么强大。

And that's why this is so powerful.

我很喜欢那个拔河的比喻。

I loved the visual of the The

拔河比赛。

tug of world.

拔河比赛让我立刻想到，如果我和你站在绳子两端，是的。

The tug of world because immediately what I thought was if you put me and you on either side of the tug of rope Yep.

每次我对你生气的时候，我都在用力拉。

Every single time that I was mad at you, I was tugging.

而每次你都会紧紧抓住绳子，然后向我这边靠近。

Every single time, you would basically hold on tight and tug closer to me.

对。

Yeah.

因为你只是想救我，想为我做这做那。

Because you just wanted to save me and do all this and do all that.

以前我们吵架的时候，总是两个人互相拉扯。

Whenever we fight, whenever we used to argue in the past, it would be both of us tug of warring.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我觉得有了“随他们去”理论——你早在我意识到之前就开始在我和家里实践了——结果就是，我一拉绳子，你就松手，我每次都摔个跟头。

And I think with the Let Them Theory, which you started implementing with me and our family way before I even knew it, I think what ended up happening is I would start to tug and you would drop the rope and I would fall down, which happens every single time.

这摔跟头不是说我看不起她或者觉得她活该。

And it's not falling down in the sense of I'm less than or screw her.

更像是，哦，她不再玩这个游戏了。

It's more so, oh, she's just not playing this game anymore.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我觉得这正是它美妙的地方。

And I think that's what's so beautiful.

“随他们去”理论最美妙的一点就是，当一个人不玩的时候，拔河游戏根本进行不下去。

What what is so beautiful about The Let Them Theory is you actually can't play the game of tug of war when one person isn't playing.

这需要两个人。

It takes two.

我们都不愿意承认自己是某种关系模式中的参与者。

And none of us want to see that we are a participant in a dynamic.

所以，改变不仅需要一个人来改变你生活中任何人的关系模式，而且只需要一个人就能改变整个家庭系统。

And that's why it takes one person to change not only the dynamic with anyone in your life, but it takes one person to change an entire family system.

而且，你知道，虽然你可以改变和任何人的关系模式，改善任何一段关系，因为你能够调整自己的表现方式，但你一定要记住一点。

And, you know, as much as you can change the dynamic with anybody, and you can improve any relationship because you can shift how you show up, you have to always remember something.

有一件事你永远无法改变，那就是另一个人。

There is one thing you will never be able to change, and that's another person.

人们只有在他们自己想改变、并且改变的条件成熟时才会改变。

People only change when they feel like changing and when the conditions for changing are present.

这一点很重要，因为如果一个人现在不想改变，或者因为生活中的某些状况无法改变，那他们就不会改变。

And that's important because if somebody doesn't want to change or they can't change due to some condition in their life right now, they're not going to change.

太多关系里，你总希望对方改变，但你其实是在违背人性的基本规律——人必须感到自己掌控着自己的生活。

And there's too many relationships where you're wishing someone would change and you're working against the fundamentals of human wiring, which is people have to feel that they are in control of their own lives.

这就是为什么他们一直在拽绳子。

That's why they're tugging on the rope.

他们想要你的关注。

They want your attention.

他们想赢。

They wanna win.

他们想证明自己是对的，所以拽绳子。

They wanna be right, so they tug on the rope.

当你选择放手，不参与这场游戏，你就改变了这个互动模式。

When you say let them and you don't play that game, you just shifted the dynamic.

随着情况变化，影响到对方时，他们就会开始思考：如果以前那套不管用了，也许我该试试别的办法。

And as things shift and it impacts someone else, now they have to question, If what I used to do doesn't work, maybe I should try something else.

这意味着你触发了人性的真相——人只有在愿意改变的时候才会改变。

And that means you're triggering the truth about human beings, which is they only change when they feel like it.

如果你改变了互动模式，过去那些老套路和包袱都不再起作用，因为你不再为那些陈年旧事争吵了，那么突然之间，可吵的事情就少了很多。

And if you're changing the dynamic and what has always happened and all the baggage is no longer relevant because you're not arguing over the same old crap anymore, then all of a sudden, there's a lot less to argue about.

正是这种空间，才让对方真正愿意改变。

And that's what creates this space that makes someone else actually want to change.

因为大多数人其实在寻找你的意图。

Because most people are actually seeking your intention.

他们想感受到自己的重要性和被看见，只是过去一直用消极的方式或潜意识里的旧模式，而这些已经行不通了。

They're seeking to feel important and seen, and they've just been going about it in very negative ways or in subconscious patterns that just don't work anymore.

你知道吗，当你听我分享这些我们一路摸爬滚打学到的东西时，我真的很期待看到你会如何运用这次对话。

You know, as you're listening to me and so I share all this and everything that we've learned the hard way, I really can't wait to see what you do with this conversation.

我也很期待听到你的反馈，想知道它如何改善了你的生活、你的人际关系，如何消除了我们一直在说的那种距离感。

And I can't wait to hear from you and to hear how it's improved your life, your relationships, how it's helped to disappear this distance that we're talking about.

而且我很兴奋，希望你能把这段内容分享给你在乎的人。

And I just am excited for you to share this with someone that you care about.

所以，Sawyer，在我们一起学习如何运用“随他们去”理论，为我们的关系创造更多改变空间的过程中，真正以全新的方式认识你，这真的非常特别。

So, you know, in the process, Sawyer, of you and I really learning how to use the Let Them Theory to create more space for our relationship to change, it's really been extraordinary to get to know you in a totally different way.

我觉得今天聊这个话题最激动人心的一点是，当你作为听众在听我们对话时，你根本不知道你的人际关系里还有多少可能性。

And I think that's one of the most exciting things about talking about this today with, you know, you as you're listening to us is that you have no idea what's possible in your relationships.

你只知道过去是什么样子。

You only know what the way it's been.

但我看到了你更大的可能性。

But I see a bigger possibility for you.

我毫不怀疑你身边的人是可以改变的。

There's no doubt in my mind that people in your life can change.

你同意吗，Sawyer？

Don't you agree, Sawyer?

是的。

Yes.

完全同意。

100.

于是我们开始一起写这本书。

So we start writing the book together.

安吉的。

Angie's.

你说安吉的什么？

What do mean Angie's?

天哪。

Geez.

哦，天哪。

Oh, jeez.

那可不是件轻松的事。

It was not a breeze.

我的天啊。

Oh my god.

不。

No.

我们

We

妈妈。

mom.

是的。

Yes.

这真是

This was

太糟糕了。

Horrible.

我真的觉得，如果这本书的主题不是关于让别人做自己、过自己的生活，好让你也能活出最好的自己、最终做回自己，那我今天就不会坐在这里。

I genuinely think if the topic of the book was not letting other people be themselves, live their lives in order for you to live your best life and for you to finally be yourself, I would not be sitting here today.

怎么

How

说？

come?

因为写这本书的过程让我们更亲近了，但也真是……哎。

Because this book writing process brought us closer, but also was whew.

挺奇怪的。

Weird.

这确实很难。

It was hard.

真的非常难。

It was really hard.

你知道，“让他们”理论，就是先说“让他们”，再说“让我”，用来缓解关系中的紧张、沮丧和压力，但这并不会让事情变得轻松。

You know, the let them theory and saying let them and then saying let me as a way to diffuse tension and frustration and stress in your relationships, it doesn't make anything easy.

它只是让事情发生。

It makes it happen.

我们一起写这本书的时候，想想这有多疯狂。

As we are writing this book together and just imagine the craziness of this.

我们是母女关系，女儿不想为妈妈工作，妈妈压力很大，经营着这么大的生意，又特别想和你更亲近。

We have a mother daughter relationship, a daughter who does not wanna work for her mother, a mom who is stressed out and running this massive business, dying to be closer to you.

我们现在做这个项目，仅仅是因为你需要钱。

We now have this project that we're working on only because you need money.

而恰好这个项目修复了我们的关系。

And it just so happens that the project heals our relationship.

因为我们写的这个工具，就是通过放下控制他人来拉近彼此距离的。

Because the tool that we're writing about is a tool that brings you closer to other people by letting go of controlling them.

它迫使你让别人做自己，这让你第一次真正看见他们。

And it forces you to let other people be themselves, which makes you see them for the first time.

所以我大概每天要对你说五次‘随他们去，随他们去，随他们去’。

And so I said let them, let them, let them with you probably five times a day.

我觉得我一天说了二十五次。

I think I said it 25 times a day.

让我给大家描绘一下当时的场景。

And let me just paint the picture for you guys.

好。

Okay.

我们当时住在一起。

So we are living together.

这一点我可不推荐。

Which is I would not recommend

强烈推荐。

20 recommend.

不如搞个虚拟项目什么的。

Do a project virtually or something.

但我们确实住在一起。

But we are living together.

所以过去整整一年，每天都是这样过的。

So every single day for the entire last year, this is how it'd go.

我们起床。

We'd wake up.

嘿，妈。

Hey, mom.

嘿，小豆。

Hey, Soy.

你怎么样？

How are you?

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

你睡得好吗？

You sleep well?

是的。

Yeah.

睡得好。

Sleep well.

好的。

Okay.

然后我们一起去锻炼。

Then we go to exercise together.

完全没有界限。

No boundaries.

然后我们一起吃早餐。

Then we eat breakfast together.

我们其中一个人会做同样的奶昔，两个人一起喝。

One of us is making the same smoothie for the both of us.

然后我们心情都特别好。

Then we're in such a positive mood.

我们一起上楼去办公室。

We go up to the office.

坐下来。

We sit down.

然后突然之间，我们的个性就全冒出来了。

And then all of a sudden, our personalities come out.

妈，她的脑子是我这辈子合作过的最漂亮、最有创意、绝对灾难性的龙卷风。

Mom, her brain is the most beautiful, creative, absolute disaster tornado I've ever worked with in my entire life.

她根本做不了决定。

She cannot make a decision.

她天马行空，你根本没法用条条框框把她框住。

She is all over the place, and you cannot contain her in structure.

她想搞创意写作，说实话，我真不知道你那另外两本书是怎么写完的。

She wants to creative write for I don't even know how you got your other two books done, to be completely honest.

我也不知道。

Me either.

但她恨不得一辈子每天都搞创意写作。

But she would love to creative write every single day for the rest of time.

她不要任何限制，不要任何结构。

She wants no boundaries, no structure.

她基本上能把同样的东西连续写20遍，而且写得很烂。

She pretty much writes the same thing 20 times in a row, and it sucks.

然后我来了，我满脑子想的都是：组织在哪里？

And then I come in, and all I wanna do is what is the organization?

结构在哪里？

What is the structure?

给我目录。

Give me the table of contents.

给我大纲。

Give me the outline.

我真的会帮她搭好框架。

And I would literally set up outlines for her.

在这里写这句话。

Write this sentence here.

在这里写这个。

Write this this here.

写这个。

Write this.

你真该看看我们的谷歌云端硬盘。

And the amount you should see our Google Drive.

里面大概有5000个不同的文档——因为我负责搭结构，梅尔不写，她也不写进去，然后她自己另建一个文档，把所有内容写在那里，再回来找我，我们再一起整合。

It is like 5,000 different documents because it is me creating structure, Mel not writing mom not writing in it, and then her creating a whole separate document where she chooses to write everything, and then coming back to me and then we come back together.

我们俩的思维方式就是合不来。

It was both of our brains do not work well together.

所以那段时间我一直想控制她，而她基本上是想躲着我。

And so the entire time I was trying to control her, and she was trying to basically run away from me.

所以每天一开始，我们都会说‘随它去吧’，每次都这样。

And so every single day, it would start off with us just saying let them every single time.

我真的得放下那种非要把它整理成结构、提炼要点、总结出来、按章节顺序写的执念。

I really had to let go of my need to put this into a structure and come up with the main points and summarize it and just work in order of chapters.

与此同时，我们写作时天马行空，一会儿写这个，一会儿又把这个推翻。

Meanwhile, we are all over the place and creative writing and we're doing this and then we're scrapping this.

我们真的写了11个版本的手稿。

We literally went through 11 manuscripts.

我说的11个版本，可不是改几个句子那么简单。

And when I say 11 manuscripts, it's not a sentence change.

而是整个推翻，从零开始重写整部手稿。

It is a scrap the entire thing and rewrite from page zero the entire manuscript.

去年一年就写了11个版本。

11 of them in the last year.

每次我都说，我觉得这样差不多了。

All of which I said, I think we're good here.

觉得够好了。

Think we're good enough.

但结果还是不够好。

And it was not good enough.

我同意。

I agree.

随它去吧。

Let them.

但我真的每次都得说‘随它去吧’。

But I literally had to say let them every single time.

所以大概到中午十二点十二分的时候，我们就开始饿得烦躁了。

And so that's about 12:12PM when we start getting hangry and annoyed.

然后我们就去吃饭，因为我们都注意到彼此开始变得不耐烦、容易发火。

And then we eat because we both noticed that we're starting to get snippy and on edge with each other.

然后到了下午，情况可能往两个方向发展。

And then comes the afternoon where it can go one of two ways.

大部分时候是一种方向，就是大吵一架，哭一场。

Mostly one way, which is blow up fight, crying.

你根本不听我说话。

You don't you don't listen to me.

你也不做这个。

You don't do this.

你也不做那个。

You don't do that.

然后就成了我们俩之间的一场彻底的关系治疗，最后哭着抱在一起，再回去工作。

And then it's a total relationship, like, therapy session between the two of us where we end up crying and hugging and then getting back to work.

如果那天过得不错，我们就喝杯酒。

And then if it was a good day, we have a glass of wine.

如果那天过得很糟，我们也喝杯酒，然后就去睡觉。

If it was a bad day, we have a glass of wine, and then we go to bed.

然后我们真的，每天从周一到周日，这就是我们的日常。

And then we literally, every single day, Monday through Sunday, that was our routine.

在那期间，还要制作这么多播客节目、发表演讲等等。

And then in between that, producing all these podcast episodes and giving speeches and everything.

工作量真的很大。

It was a lot.

太多了。

It was too much.

但更重要的是这一点。

And but but the bigger takeaway is this.

因为我不想让你对经营家族企业感到灰心，也不想让你觉得所有的紧张和争吵都白费了。

Because I don't want you to be discouraged from ever working in a family business, and I don't want you to think that all of the tension and fighting was for naught.

因为说到底，写一本书是一项巨大的工程。

Because the bottom line is writing a book is a colossal undertaking.

通常，你需要两年时间才能完成。

Typically, you would do it in two years.

我们八个月就完成了这本书。

We produced this one in eight months.

这个时间线简直疯狂。

That is insane in terms of the timeline.

而它之所以能完成，唯一的原因就是你。

And the only reason why it got done, it was because of you.

当你不仅要和一个你心里有故事、想改善关系的人打交道，而且你们的工作方式和思维方式还截然不同时，使用“随他们去”理论简直就是救命稻草。

And when you're not only dealing with somebody that you have a story about and you wanna have a better relationship with, but you also have very different working styles and thinking styles, using the Let Them Theory is a lifesaver.

因为每次我说“随他们去”的时候——比如索耶冲我吼，说我重写章节、不按大纲来，还质问既然不打算按大纲走，那当初做大纲还有什么意义——每次我说“随他们去”，我都能意识到你脑子里的天才之处，因为这就是你的思维方式。

Because every time I would say let them, because Sawyer was yelling at me that I was rewriting a chapter and I wasn't following the outline, and why even bother doing an outline if you're not even gonna follow it, Every time I said let them, what happened is I recognized the genius in your brain because this is how you think.

你知道吗，生活中，我把人分为两种：跳箱子和踩箱子。

You know, in life, there are what I call box jumpers and box steppers.

想象一条路，每一步都按顺序走，从A点到Z点。

So if you imagine a path, every step, a b c d e, the path leaves from point a to point z.

索耶，你是那种不需要看到Z点的人。

You're the kind of person, Sawyer, that you don't need to see point z.

你完全清楚从A到B，再到C，再到D的每一步。

You know exactly what a to b to b to c to c to d.

你是个天才。

You are a genius.

你是个按部就班的人。

You are a box stepper.

你能处理任何流程。

You can take any process.

你能围绕它构建一个结构。

You can organize a structure around it.

我的脑子就做不到这一点。

Like, my brain cannot do that.

真的做不到。

It can't.

你爸爸也是这样的。

Your dad is the same way.

我是另一种类型的思考者。

I am a different type of thinker.

我是那种所谓的‘跳跃思维者’。

I am what you call a box jumper.

我的天赋就是站在起点A，一眼看到终点线，然后说，哦，我们要去W。

And it is my genius to stand at point a and see all the way down the line and go, oh, we're going to w.

我完全不知道怎么规划路线到那儿，但我知道我们一定能到。

Now I have no idea how to create a map to get there, but I know we're gonna get there.

而我们大多数关系的问题就在这里。

And here's the problem with most of our relationships.

我希望索耶也能成为一个跳跃思维者。

I want Sawyer to be a box jumper.

我希望她能像我一样思考。

I want her to think like me.

我希望她能像我一样。

I want her to be like me.

所以我会感到紧张、愤怒和怨恨，因为你和我不一样，你的思维方式也和我不同。

And that's why I feel frustrated in tension and, like, anger and resentment because you're not like me and you don't think like me.

与此同时，索耶只希望我能从A到B，再从B到C，她不明白为什么我的大脑不能像她那样运作。

Meanwhile, Sawyer just wishes I was a that I could go from a to b and then b to c, and she doesn't understand why my brain doesn't work the way that her brain works.

我觉得我们大多数人都在彼此之间建立了一种无形的距离，因为我们从未学会如何说‘随他们去吧’。

And I think most of us build up this invisible distance with one another because we've never learned how to say let them.

当你学会说‘随他们去吧’，允许别人因为思维方式不同或期望落空而情绪失控时——尤其是在节假日或重大庆祝活动期间，我对此想了很多。

And when you say let them and you let somebody freak out because their brain works differently or because their expectations weren't met, like, think a lot about especially around the holidays or big celebrations.

当然，你的家人会因为你不能来而感到失望。

Of course, your family's bummed you're not coming.

他们爱你。

They love you.

他们难道不应该难过吗？

Shouldn't they be upset?

他们难道不应该失望吗？

Shouldn't they be disappointed?

我是说，那还能怎么办呢？

I mean, what's the alternative?

难道要说‘你不来我反而高兴，反正我本来就讨厌你’吗？

I'm glad you're not coming because I hate you anyway?

与其这样，不如想想，别人失望到底意味着什么？

Instead of saying, oh, well, what does it actually mean if someone's disappointed?

那只是说明他们爱我，他们只是希望我在场。

It just means they love me, and they just wish I were there.

但这不代表我必须改变自己的计划。

Doesn't mean I have to change my plans.

因为两件事可以同时成立。

Because two things can be true at once.

有人可以对我失望，同时依然爱我；我也可以因为今年要去婆家、错过一些事而感到有点难过——这些感受可以同时存在。

Someone can be disappointed in me and still love me, and I can be kinda sad that this year I'm going to my in laws, and I'm gonna miss out, but those can both be true.

同样可以成立的是，我和我女儿思维方式可能很不一样，我们的大脑构造也截然不同。

And what can also be true is my daughter and I can be very different thinkers, and we can be wired very differently.

通过理解和接纳，我们俩都能找到自己的位置。

And through understanding and acceptance, there's room for both of us.

正是在这种空间里，索耶会感到沮丧，因为我又一次以艺术家的身份行事。

And it's in that space where Sawyer can be frustrated because I'm yet again as an artist.

我就是个艺术家。

I'm just an artist.

这就是我的本质。

That's what I am.

我把事情搞砸，是因为我知道这条路走不通。

I blow something up because I know that this isn't gonna take us to w.

我没办法跟她解释我们怎么才能走到终点，但我知道她的才华能带我们到达那里。

And I can't explain to her how we're gonna get to w, but I know her genius will get us there.

如果我能为你的悲伤、情绪化或愤怒创造空间，让它们自然存在，然后我说，好吧，让我……

If I can create space for your experience to be sad or emotional or mad and just let them, and then I say, well, let me.

让我诚实地面对自己知道的事实，同时我也为你留出空间，让你可以表达不满。

Let me be honest with myself about what I know to be true, and let me hold space for you to be upset.

你也是一样的。

Same thing's true with you.

好的。

Okay.

随她去吧。

Let them.

妈妈又来了。

Here goes mom again.

那个疯狂的艺术家，随她去吧，我作为项目经理提醒自己，如果这个项目赶不上截止日期，不是我的错，是她的。

The crazy insane artist, let her, and let me remind myself as the project manager on this, if this doesn't hit the deadline, not my fault, it's hers.

所以让她搞砸吧，因为封面上是她的名字。

So let her blow it up, because it's her name on the cover.

让她去做吧，因为她得承担后果。

Let her do it, because she's gonna have to reap the consequences of it.

这并不容易。

And it was not easy.

这就是‘随他们去’理论作为工具的关键所在。

And that's the thing about the Let Them Theory as a tool.

这是一个你每天、在每段关系中都会用到的工具。

It's a tool that you are going to use every day in every relationship.

我在婚姻里几乎天天都在说这句话。

I literally say it every day in my marriage.

我和索耶相处时也每天都会说，因为小事总会让人心烦。

I say it every day with Sawyer because little things piss you off.

小事会让你忍不住翻白眼。

Little things make you roll your eyes.

但与其让这些小事变成无形的伤口，慢慢拉开距离，让关系逐渐枯萎、被怨恨占据，不如说一句‘随他们去’，直接放下，这样就不会积压。

But instead of letting those little things become the invisible cuts that create the distance that makes your relationship slowly die and resentment take over, when you say let them, you just let them go, and it doesn't build up.

你学会去爱对方本来的样子，而不是总希望他们跟你一模一样——因为他们永远不可能。

And you learn how to love the person as they are instead of constantly wishing they were just like you, because they're never gonna be.

我觉得在写这本书的过程中运用‘随他们去’理论，也让这本书变得好多了。

I think that also using the Let Them Theory in this book writing process made this book so much better.

因为你让我从二十多岁的视角来写，而我也让你从五十多岁的视角来写，尽管我无法感同身受。

Because you let me write from a twenties perspective, and I let you even though I can't relate from a fifties perspective.

所以我觉得这本书里有很多能引起共鸣的故事，能覆盖到不同年龄段的人——你那个年龄、我这个年龄、还有中间的所有人——这让最终的作品

And so I feel like this book has so much relatable stories, and so it reaches so many different age groups, mine, yours, everyone's in between, that it actually brought the finishing product

天哪。

Oh my god.

太棒了。

Incredible.

变得

To be

更好了。

so much better.

而且我觉得，我们两个人的写作风格交织在一起，对。

And I think that that, like, just having both of our writing styles woven in throughout of it Mhmm.

真的很棒。

Is really amazing.

要是没有‘随他们去’这个理念，我们可能早就把这个项目扔到一边，说算了别折腾了。

Well, if we hadn't had Let Them, we probably would have thrown this project out the window and said, let's not bother.

你大概会辞职搬到纽约，然后说‘看吧，我早说了’。

And you would have quit and moved to New York and said, see, I told you.

但正是‘随他们去’和‘随我来’这两个工具，为我们创造了合作的空间，让我们能带着截然不同的风格和经历一起做项目。

But it was the tool of saying let them and then saying let me that created the space for us to work together on a project and have very different styles and also very different experiences.

因为这是我的第九本书了。

Because this is my ninth book.

我们给Audible做了六本有声书。

We've got we've done six audiobooks for Audible.

还做了《五秒法则》和《击掌习惯》。

We did the five second rule and the high five habit.

所以我对这套流程已经很熟悉了。

So I've been through this rodeo.

你还没经历过。

You haven't.

所以这也是一种体验，把一个人带入一个项目，他边学边做，干得非常出色，但同时也承受着从未做过这件事带来的所有压力和焦虑。

And so it's also this experience of bringing someone into a project who is learning in the seat doing a remarkable job, but also all the stress and anxiety that comes from never having done it before.

完全同意。

100%.

而且我觉得，你也注意到，在我为一些你觉得没什么大不了的事情抓狂时，你对我用了很多次“随他们去”，反过来也一样。

And I think that also you I noticed that you had done Let Them a lot with me when I was freaking out about things that you didn't think were a big deal and vice versa.

我想说两件事。

And I wanna say two things.

我想分享一个建议，关于另一种使用“随他们去”和“随我去”的方式，还想说一个我在这个过程中经历到的警示。

I wanna say one piece of advice of another way that you can use let them and let me, and I wanna say one warning that I experienced during this process.

哦。

Oh.

所以第一点是，我喜欢“随他们去”理论的地方在于，你可以把它说出来。

So the first is that what I love about the Let Them Theory is that you can vocalize it.

所以我觉得，在我们很多次谈话结束时，妈妈，我会对你说，我在努力让你按自己的节奏来，我在努力让你在这个话题上自由创作。

And so I feel like in a lot of our conversations at the end of the day, mom, you would I would say to you, I am trying to let you have your process, and I am trying to let you creatively write about this topic.