自控力的科学：寻找动力、培养意志力与提升专注力

而且，你知道，尽管我们的生活中仍然存在巨大的不确定性，但我们想要的是那种可控的、数字化的不确定性，在这种不确定性中，我们能迅速完成感知与行动的闭环来解决它。

And, okay, you know, again, there's enormous uncertainty still in our lives, but what we want is the controlled, you know, digital uncertainty where we have this very short perception action loop of resolving it.

对吧？

Right?

一种适度的不确定性。

Kind of the uncertainty.

你能谈谈多巴胺和注意力缺陷多动障碍吗？

Can you talk a little bit about dopamine and ADHD?

是的。

Yeah.

我们知道，患有多动症的人更容易成瘾，但其机制尚不明确。

So we do know that people with ADHD are at higher risk for developing addiction, and the mechanism is not well understood.

但有一些有趣的研究表明，多动症患者在奖赏通路中的多巴胺传递基础水平可能较低。

But there are some interesting studies suggesting that people with ADHD might have baseline lower levels of dopamine transmission in the reward pathway.

意思是，他们自身产生的多巴胺不多，或者系统中的神经递质释放不足？

Meaning, they don't make a lot of it or they don't they don't have enough firing through in the system?

或者是的。

Or Yeah.

这些是脑成像研究，你测量健康对照组受试者伏隔核中的多巴胺传递情况。

So these are brain imaging studies where you take you measure dopamine transmission in the nucleus accumbens in healthy control subjects.

你将其与ADHD患者进行比较，结果发现，在这个奖励通路中，ADHD患者在静息状态下多巴胺传递的基线水平更低，且突触后多巴胺受体也更少，这同样与多巴胺传递有关。

You compare that to people with ADHD, and you find, lo and behold, in that reward pathway, people with ADHD appear to have lower baseline levels just at rest of dopamine transmission and even fewer postsynaptic dopamine receptors, which is, again, related to dopamine transmission.

如果你是这样，是不是意味着你会更冲动地追求令人愉悦的事物、寻求快速的分心和多巴胺刺激等等？

If you had that, would that mean you would be more impulsive at going after pleasurable things and quick hits of distraction and dopamine and all that

东西？

stuff?

是的。

Yeah.

因为你要记住，这正是我们在成瘾中看到的现象。

Because remember, that's what we see in addiction.

因此，成瘾的病理生理机制就是奖励通路中多巴胺传递的下调。

So the pathophysiology of addiction is this downregulation of dopamine transmission in the reward pathway.

因此，ADHD患者在基线状态下可能存在奖励敏感性降低，这可能导致他们的冲动行为、寻求刺激、过度消费物质的倾向，以及对成瘾的易感性。

So folks with ADHD might at baseline have some reward insensitivity, which might contribute to their impulsivity, their stimulus seeking, their vulnerability to overconsume, intoxicants, their vulnerability to addiction.

你知道，我还看到另一个与多巴胺密切相关的问题，那就是焦虑。

You know, one other thing that I see a really big connection to is anxiety and dopamine.

是的。

Yeah.

我想分享一下，因为我觉得这可能会有帮助。

And I'll share this because I think it might be helpful.

我现在和我女儿正在一起处理的一件事是，我们的关系非常亲密，我就像她的安抚物，她也毫不介意我谈论这些。

One of the things that my daughter and I are working on right now, because we definitely have a relationship where I'm like her blankie and she has no problem with me talking about this.

而且我也注意到，我在人际关系中也有类似的问题：每当生活变得紧张，或者我情绪过度波动时，是的。

And it's something that I noticed that I've struggled with in relationships too, which is whenever life gets stressful or whenever I get flooded with emotion Yeah.

无论我有点想家、对即将发生的事情感到紧张、只是处于紧张状态，还是早上醒来感觉不舒服，都会有一种近乎本能的冲动，想要立刻联系别人，寻求安慰。

Whether I feel a little homesick or I I I nervous about what's about to happen or I just am on edge or I wake up feeling like sick, that there is almost this reflexive need to quickly reach out and touch base and quickly reach out and get assurance from somebody else.

是的。

Yes.

随着年龄增长，我确实注意到这种倾向——无论是面对丈夫还是商业伙伴时——并学会自问：等等，我主动联系是因为想要沟通，还是因为自己正经历着艰难不适的情绪？而不是停留在当下、自我支撑着告诉自己‘我能挺过去，这种情绪会消散，我有能力处理这件棘手的事，有能力承受这些情绪’，我却选择向外寻求，借用他人的信心或其他什么。

And I have, as I've gotten older, really noticed this propensity, whether it was with my husband or with my business partner and taught myself to just ask, wait, am I reaching out because I wanna connect or am I reaching out because I myself am feeling something that's difficult and uncomfortable and instead of just standing in this moment and holding myself here and going, okay, I can get through this, it's This emotion's gonna pass, I'm capable of handling this difficult thing I'm about to do, I'm capable of feeling these emotions, I would reach out and borrow the confidence or whatever from somebody else.

这就像一剂快速的解药，能立刻缓解你正在经历的焦虑。

And it's like a simple quick hit that immediately resolves the anxiety you're feeling.

现在，我女儿正和我一起努力解决这个问题。

And now, daughter is working on this with me.

每当她感受到这种情绪洪流时——那种感觉确实很痛苦。

That anytime she feels this flood, and it's painful when you feel that.

显然，所有专家都说当你焦虑时，最不应该做的就是回避痛苦的事情。

And obviously every expert out there says when you're anxious, the worst thing you can do is avoid the painful thing.

但我刚刚意识到，寻求安慰其实是令人愉悦的。

But seeking reassurance, I just realized is pleasurable.

这就是为什么焦虑会加剧。

And that's why the anxiety gets worse.

这就是为什么你开始在这些时刻上瘾。

That's why you start to become addicted in those moments.

哦，得给妈妈打个电话。

Oh, gotta reach out to mom.

是的。

Yeah.

得跟妈妈联系一下。

Gotta check-in with mom.

对。

Right.

得确保我的这种行为属于这种痛苦、愉悦、多巴胺机制的一部分，而不是强迫自己去做那些小小的、令人不适的事。

Gotta make sure my spot like that that is part of this mechanism of pain, pleasure, dopamine, and not forcing yourself to do the small uncomfortable things.

你能解释得更详细一点吗？

Is that can you explain a little bit?

比如，你为什么这样？因为我看到你在点头。

Like, what are you because I see you're nodding.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

我 absolutely 爱这个。

I I absolutely love this.

这就是为什么我觉得我们是异父异母的姐妹，因为依恋本质上就是我的毒品。

And this is why I think we're sisters from another mother because that's essentially my drug of choice is attachment.

让我先说，拥有情感亲密关系、能随时联系的人、相互依赖，以及我们需要彼此、爱彼此、想主动联系彼此，这真是太好了。

Let me start by saying it is wonderful to have emotional intimacy and people in your life you can reach to and interdependency, and and that we need each other and and love each other and and wanna reach out to each other.

所以，这显然是一个美好的起点。

So, like, that that's obviously the wonderful starting point.

但你所指出的这一点非常重要，那就是我们从相互的爱与尊重，转变为实际上把你当作毒品来使用的时候。

But what you're getting at is really, really important, and it's that moment that we cross from sort of mutual love and respect to I'm actually using you to as a drug, essentially.

我利用你来帮助我调节情绪，而这本身并不一定是坏事，因为

I'm using you to kind of help me modulate, you know, my emotions, which again, in and of itself is not necessarily bad because

whoever was well.

It's whoever was well.

当然。

Of course.

是的。

Yeah.

但当它成为常态时，是的。

But when it becomes the baseline Yes.

对我来说，我开始问自己：等等，我联系这个人是因为我想和他建立联系吗？

For me, what I started asking myself is, wait, am I reaching out because I wanna connect with this person?

对。

Right.

还是我在主动联系？

Or am I reaching out?

作为一种药物。

As a drug.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我会倒一杯葡萄酒。

And Like, I'd grab a glass of wine.

是的。

Yes.

而正是在这里，科技变得如此具有破坏性和隐蔽性。

And and here's where the technology has become so destructive and insidious.

你知道，就在二十年前，如果你想要联系住在城另一头的女儿，你基本上得亲自过去。

You know, even just twenty years ago, if you wanted to reach out to your daughter living across town, I mean, essentially, you had to go over there.

对吧？

Right?

那需要花一点时间，也需要一些努力。

And it took a little bit of time and it took some effort.

现在有了这些设备，这种联系真的已经变得像吸毒一样了。

Now with the devices, this reaching out really has become drugified.

你知道，无论是否——我本人也会这样。

You know, whether it's and I do this too.

你知道的吧？

You know?

我们刚成为空巢父母，现在家里没有孩子，我真的很不适应。

We're newly empty nesters, and it's been very difficult for me to be at home without any kids there now.

而且，你知道，我一度到了几乎每天用‘查找我的iPhone’跟踪孩子的位置的地步。

And, you know, I kind of got to a point where I was, like, literally stalking my kids on Find My iPhone.

我女儿在华盛顿特区实习，我就问她：‘你现在在华盛顿特区的救世军商店吗？’

I love be like my daughter was, like, in doing an internship in DC, and I'm like, are you at a Goodwill in DC?

她跟我说：‘妈妈，这太奇怪了。’

She goes, mom, that's weird.

我的意思是，如果你打算这样盯着我，就别用‘查找我的iPhone’了。

Like, I you know, I don't want you to use Find My iPhone with me if you're gonna, like, be stalking me.

这确实是我正在努力改善的一个方面，因为我的孩子占用了我太多的心理空间。

And it it's been this is a real area I'm working on because my kids occupy a lot of my mental real estate.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

而且他们的幸福，我真的把它当成一种让我感觉更好的药物。

And their well-being I I I do use it as a drug to make myself feel better.

当他们过得好，我收到他们过得好的小消息时，我就感觉很好。

And when they're doing well and I get little information from them that they're doing well, I feel good.

而当他们过得不好时，我会反复思虑、担心，感到难过。

And and when they're not doing well, I ruminate and I worry and I feel bad.

但问题是，这对你和你的孩子来说是如此事与愿违且可能有害：你的孩子因此陷入一种困境，他们不敢告诉你事情不顺，因为他们必须表现得好，你才能安心。

But here here's how this is so, you know, counterproductive and potentially harmful for me and my kids is that my kids then get trapped in this thing where we can't actually tell mom that things are not going well because we have to be doing well for her to be okay.

哦，天哪。

Oh, wow.

非常微妙。

Very subtle.

但这种状况会悄悄地影响你。

But this creeps up on you.

我很高兴你谈到这个。

I'm so glad you're talking about this.

我们同龄。

We're the same age.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Are.

没错。

Exactly.

我们经历了空巢阶段，但我觉得，无论你处于哪个年龄段——十几岁、二十几岁还是三十几岁，你都可能经历过这样的时刻：你正经历一些不舒服的事，却试图通过依赖他人来让自己感觉好一些。

We've gone through the empty nester thing, but I think regardless of your age, if you're in your teens or your twenties or your thirties, you can probably think of moments where you have been going through something uncomfortable and you are now trying to make yourself feel okay by using another person.

我

I

邀请你，如果有一个人的位置你总是查看，或者你注意到某个人，你只在感到有点沮丧或无聊之类的时候才联系他们，那就把莱姆基医生分享的一切都记下来。

invite you, if there's a person whose location you check all the time or there is a person who you notice, you only reach out to them when you're feeling a little distressed or bored or whatever, just take everything that Doctor.

并在接下来的几周里尝试，在你感到痛苦的时刻不要给那个人发信息或联系他们，试着通过自我安慰来度过，并留意会有什么新的变化开始出现。

Lemke has shared and try to, for the next couple weeks, not text or reach out to that person when you're feeling a moment of distress and try to reassure yourself through it and just notice what starts to open up.

我认为这有点像多巴胺重置。

And I think it's a little dopamine reset.

我想你是赞同的。

Think you're like Yes.

体内平衡又恢复了。

Homeostasis sets back in.

没错。

That's right.

说得对。

That's right.

这太棒了。

It's so cool.

医生

Doctor.

莱姆基，我就知道你很棒，但天哪，我真不敢相信我们现在学到了这么多东西。

Lemke, I knew you were gonna be awesome, but holy cow, I cannot believe how much we are learning right now.

我知道多巴胺很强大，但这？

I knew dopamine was powerful, but this?

这完全颠覆了我对动机和大脑运作方式的认知。

This is turning everything that I thought about motivation and the way the brain works like on its head.

而且，你知道，在你谈话的过程中，医生

And, you know, as you've been talking, Doctor.

莱姆克，我已经想到了很多人，我迫不及待地要和他们分享这次对话。

Lemke, I'm already thinking about so many people that I cannot wait to share this conversation with.

我相信正在收听或观看YouTube的你也在想，天啊，我的伴侣、我的孩子、我的朋友、我那位一直感觉很困顿的同事

And I'm sure as you're listening or watching right now on YouTube, you're thinking, oh my gosh, my partner, my kids, my friend, my colleague at work that's been feeling really stuck.

他们也需要了解这些内容。

They need to know this stuff too.

所以，请花点时间把这段内容分享给你想到的那些人，别走开。

So take a moment and share this with the people that you have in mind, and don't go anywhere.

我们马上休息一下。

We're gonna take a quick break.

接下来让我们听听我们出色的赞助商的发言。

We're gonna hear a word from our amazing sponsors.

我们还会给你机会，把这一集分享给需要这些精彩研究的人，别走开，因为莱姆克医生才刚刚开始。

We're gonna also give you a chance to share this episode with people who need all of this amazing research, and stay with me because Doctor.

莱姆克医生的分享才刚刚开始。

Lemke is just getting started.

当我们回来时，我们将更深入地探讨大脑中的愉悦中枢，以及她如何帮助你重新调节多巴胺的方案。

We're gonna go even deeper into this plain pleasure center in the brain and her protocols for how to reset your dopamine when we return.

请继续关注。

Stay with me.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

你的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯。

It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

今天，你和我将学习来自全球顶尖多巴胺专家安娜·莱姆克博士的知识。

And today, you and I are getting to learn from the number one dopamine expert in the world, Doctor.

安娜·莱姆克。

Anna Lemke.

我们将了解她关于培养意志力、完成任务、获得幸福的方案。

We're hearing all about her protocol for building willpower, getting things done, being happier.

我希望你和我一样充满激情，因为天哪，莱姆克博士。

And I hope you're just as fired up as I am because holy cow, Doctor.

莱姆克。

Lemke.

你分享的这些信息真的会改变游戏规则。

This is really game changing information that you're sharing.

所以接下来我想和你讨论的话题是。

And so here's the next topic I wanted to talk about with you.

莱姆克博士，我真的很喜欢您的工作、研究以及您解释这些内容的方式的一点是，您对自己的故事非常坦诚。

One of the things I really love about your work and your research and your way you explain this stuff, doctor Lemke, is that you are very open with your own story.

而且我很欣赏您在这里研究所有这些内容。

And I love that here you are researching all this stuff.

您正在教授它。

You are teaching it.

您正在为您的患者简化它。

You're simplifying it for your patients.

突然间，你有了这个顿悟。

And all of a sudden, you have this epiphany.

天啊。

Oh my gosh.

我自己，是的。

I myself Yeah.

对某样东西上瘾了。

Have become addicted to something.

是的

Yeah.

您能分享一下这个故事吗？

Would you share that story?

当然可以。

Yes.

绝对可以。

Absolutely.

好的，那么。

So okay.

该从哪里开始讲起呢？

Where to where to go into this.

所以，在我四十岁出头的时候，是的。

So so in in my early forties Yeah.

你知道，那时我的生活基本上一直很顺利。

You know, life was basically running along pretty well.

而且我并不是想逃避什么。

And it's not like I was trying to escape into anything.

我的意思是，我和配偶之间确实有些婚姻矛盾，关于我们是否应该再要孩子，还是就到此为止。

I mean, I had some, you know, marital conflict around whether or not we were going to, you know, try to have more children or stop there.

但我一直是个爱读书的人。

But and I've always been a reader.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我一直享受阅读带来的乐趣，它也是一种解脱。

So I always enjoyed reading as, you know, a pleasure, an escape as well.

我当时在小学里和一些妈妈们待在一起，她们在谈论一本她们读过的书，还有这本书有多棒。

And I was hanging out with some moms at the elementary school, and they were talking about this book that they had read and, you know, how great it was.

于是我就好奇地问：‘你们在读什么书啊？’

So I was like, oh, well, what what are you reading?

她们说：‘哦，是《暮光之城》系列。'

And they said, oh, it's The Twilight Saga.

我当时想，好吧。

And I thought, Okay.

听起来挺特别的，我从来没读过这样的书。

That sounds you know, I've never read a book like that.

我去看看吧。

I'll I'll go check it out.

于是我去了书店，在成人区找这本书。

So I go to the bookstore, and I'm looking for it in the adult section.

他们说，不是在那儿。

They're like, no.

不在那儿。

No.

你得去儿童区找。

You gotta go find it in the kids.

我说，好吧。

I'm like, okay.

青少年读物区。

The adolescent section.

你知道的。

You know?

所以对于不知道的人，这是一部写给青少年的吸血鬼爱情系列小说。

So it's for those who don't know, it's a it's a vampire romance series written for teenagers.

总之，我很难用言语形容，只能说它让我完全沉浸其中。

So, anyway, I can't really explain it other than just saying I found it completely transporting.

于是我读完了整个系列，然后又一遍又一遍地回头重读。

And I I I read the whole series, and then I I went back and read it again and again and again.

它只是让我进入了一个我也不知道该怎么形容的境界。

And I just it just put me in this place that was just I don't know.

我不必再去想自己。

I I just didn't have to think about myself.

我不必去想我的生活。

I didn't have to think about my life.

那是一种恍惚的状态，非常非常愉悦，比当时我读的其他书都要更让人沉浸。

It was like a trance like state, a very, very pleasurable, more so than, you know, books I had been reading at the time.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

于是我自己想，也许还有其他吸血鬼爱情小说。

So then I thought to myself, well, maybe there are other vampire romance novels.

是的。

Yeah.

于是我去了当地的图书馆，结果发现整整一排都是这类书。

So I go to my local library, and lo and behold, there's like a whole shelf of them.

我的意思是，我知道直到晚年才接触到爱情小说有点奇怪，但我的确之前没怎么接触过。

I mean, I know it's kind of weird that I didn't really, like, discover the romance genre until late in life, but I really hadn't.

所以我就想，哇，太棒了。

So then I'm like, oh, cool.

现在我在读，你知道的，我在读安妮·赖斯。

So now I'm reading, you know, I'm reading Anne Rice.

我正在读所有关于吸血鬼的浪漫小说。

I'm reading all the romance novels that have to do with vampires.

然后我想，好吧。

And then I'm like, okay.

接下来怎么办？

What now?

接着是狼人、死灵法师、预言者和精灵。

And then it was werewolves and, you know, necromancers and soothsayers and fairies.

随着时间推移，我花在阅读浪漫小说上的时间越来越多，尤其是融合了奇幻与浪漫的‘浪漫奇幻’类作品。

And and as time went on, you know, I just was spending more and more time reading romance novels, especially romantasy, combining fantasy and romance.

然后我的朋友苏珊，你知道的，她也是我的恋人，她说：‘安娜，你应该买个Kindle。'

Then my friend Susan, you know, lover, but she's like, Anna, you should get a Kindle.

我当时想，哦，你知道的，那时候电子阅读器还很新潮。

And I'm like, oh, you know, and this was sort of like, e readers were early.

所以我就说，好吧。

So I'm like, okay.

我买了一台Kindle，突然间我可以读那些封面特别尴尬的言情小说，但没人知道。

And I get a Kindle, and then all of a sudden, I can be reading like bodice rippers with these really embarrassing covers, but nobody knows.

我是说，哦，是的。

I'm like, oh, yeah.

我正在读《战争与和平》。

I'm reading War and Peace.

这不是很惊人吗？

Isn't that amazing?

你知道的。

You know?

最疯狂的是，即使作为一名成瘾精神科医生，我也没能察觉到这个过程是如何逐步发生的，而这个过程中有几点值得注意。

And, you know, it's the crazy part is even as an addiction psychiatrist, I did not see the progression as it was happening, and there there are a couple things with the progression.

第一，我开始产生耐受性，我并没有立刻意识到，只是事后才回想起，我需要越来越露骨的内容才能获得同样的满足感。

Number one, I started developing developing tolerance where I I noticed I I didn't notice it only in retrospect, but I needed more and more graphic forms to get the same effect.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以更性化、更情色化。

So more sexualized, more eroticized.

我花在阅读上的时间越来越多，熬夜越来越晚，第二天又很疲惫，精神上也完全被它占据，满脑子都想的是这个。

I was spending more and more time reading, so staying up later and later at night, being tired the next day, I was becoming mentally preoccupied where that's all I wanted to do.

我只想赶紧过完一天，应付孩子，应付丈夫，然后回到自己的地方，读我的言情小说。

I just wanted to get through my day, deal with the kids, deal with my husband, and then get to my place where I could read my romance novels.

对吧？

Right?

这种注意力的狭窄化，正是成瘾的特征。

So this kind of narrowing of focus which we see with addiction.

然后，还出现了真正的后果。

And then then there were also real consequences.

主要的后果是我对孩子们、家人和病人的陪伴减少了。

And the main consequences were I was less present for my children and my family and my patients.

我开始把言情小说带到工作场所，甚至在病人之间的十分钟空档里读小说，而不是反思或记录病人的状况。

I started bringing romance novels to work and actually reading them in the ten minutes between patients instead of reflecting on patients or documenting my patients.

我们一家人去海边度假了。

We we went on a family vacation at the beach.

我没去海滩。

I didn't go to the beach.

我一整天都待在房间里读言情小说。

I spent the whole time in the room reading romance novels.

我们甚至去参加了邻居的聚会。

We even went to, like, a neighborhood party.

这真是太奇怪了。

And this is so bizarre.

在别人在后院玩的时候，我竟然在他们家找了个房间，趁聚会时读言情小说。

I actually found a room in their house while other people were in the backyard, and I read romance novels during the party.

所以，这又是那种注意力狭窄的表现，无法从其他微小的快乐中获得满足，我的快乐阈值被重新设定了。

So it was, again, this kind of narrowing of focus of the inability to take joy and other modest rewards, this resetting of my joy set point.

唯一能带给我快乐的，就是那些言情小说。

The only thing that gave me pleasure was the romance novels.

最终，我到了一个地步，根本不在乎写作、情节结构或人物了。

And eventually, I got to a point where, like, I didn't care about the writing or the plot structure or the characters.

我在亚马逊上试图找免费的，你知道的，像那种免费的药物一样。

I was on Amazon trying to get, like, free because, you know, free drugs like that.

这听起来不错。

That sounds good to me.

我不想多花钱，所以就拿了免费的言情小说。

I didn't wanna pay more money, so I got, like, free romance novels.

过了一阵子，我甚至都没看完它们。

I I didn't even finish them after a while.

我只是读到大概四分之三的地方，而任何言情小说的设计都是这样的。

I just got to, like, three quarters of the way through, which any romance novel is designed.

如果你打开书看到四分之三处，就会直接进入高潮。

If you open it to three quarters of way through, you'll get right to the climax.

是的。

Yeah.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

这在很多方面都是如此。

That in multiple ways.

是的。

Yep.

我甚至都没读完。

And I didn't even finish it.

然后我...直到后来回想起来，我才意识到自己身上出现了患者们描述的那种情况，就是那种‘我绝不会碰海洛因’的念头。

Then I there was and it was really only in retrospect that I I could see in myself what my patients had been describing where, you know, it was like, oh, I'll I'll never use heroin.

然后突然间，你知道，他们就在田德隆区，为了少量黑焦油海洛因卖掉外套和笔记本电脑。

And then all of a sudden, you know, they're in the Tenderloin, you know, selling their jacket and their laptop for a tiny amount of black tar heroin.

你知道，这种...就像是...某种最低共同分母的感觉。是的。

You know, this kind of, like, sort of this kind of lowest common denominator Yeah.

只要能满足我的瘾，什么都行。

Anything to get my fix.

现在我不想轻描淡写

Now I don't wanna trivialize

你当时那种‘天哪’的时刻。

moment where you were like, holy cow.

是的。

Yeah.

我所说的那种愉悦与痛苦

I I the the pleasure pain

就像，这本来会

Like, it's it's it would've

得到了，是的。

gotten yeah.

我就是想知道，有没有那么一刻，你突然觉得‘天哪’。

I am I'm, like, was there a moment where you're like, holy cow.

因为说实话，你所描述的听起来就像每个人日常使用手机的样子。

Because what you're describing honestly sounds like everybody's basic use of their phone.

是的。

Yeah.

冲突，这个

The conflict, the

紧握，这个，那个。

grip, the this, the that.

这并不令人满足。

It's not satisfying.

我为什么要做这个？

Why am I doing it?

我在寻找更多。

I'm searching for more.

他们关注不同的东西。

They follow different things.

对。

Right.

所以我喜欢这个故事。

And so I love this story.

我也喜欢这个故事。

I also love this story.

我来告诉你一个原因。

I'm gonna tell you a reason.

因为我发现了成人奇幻童话这一整个类型。

Because I found the whole genre of adult fairy fantasy.

是的。

Yeah.

荆棘与玫瑰的宫廷。

Court of Thorn and Rosens.

是的。

Yeah.

有声书。

Graphic audio.

对。

Right.

我会在厨房里听这个。

I would I would be in my kitchen listening to this.

是的。

Yeah.

克里斯会站在那里。

Chris would be standing there.

音量开得很大，我正听着夜之法庭，沉浸在角色们所处的另一个世界里。

The volume would be I'm in the night court listening to my characters in a completely different world.

我能听见他在说话，我不由得点头，仿佛身临其境。

I can hear him talking and I'm kinda nodding as if I'm there.

我当时就想，梅尔，你必须这么做；另外一件事是，我听完整个系列后，让我全家和公司一半的人都听了，之后一直在找类似的作品。

And I'm like, Mel, you have to and the other thing that happened is after I finished the entire series, which I got my whole family and half this company to listen to, have been looking for something Like it.

能让我如此专注的，却一直没找到。

That holds my attention and haven't found it.

是的。

Yeah.

那么，你能用这一点来解释一下愉悦与痛苦的循环，以及多巴胺是如何参与其中的吗？

And so when you have can you use that to explain just the cycle of pleasure pain and how dopamine is involved?

是的。

Yeah.

就像第一个时候，你真的会想，天哪。

Just like in the so the first one you're really like, oh my god.

对。

Right.

所以这是新颖的。

So it's novel.

多巴胺之所以被释放，是因为什么原因。

Dopamine gets released because of why.

再次强调，多巴胺是我们大脑中的奖励神经递质。

Again, dopamine is our reward neurotransmitter.

好的。

Okay.

它是向我们发出信号，表明环境中某些事物对我们的生存至关重要。

It it it it is what signals to us that something in the environment is important for our survival.

我们应该去接近它、探索它，并可能利用它。

We should approach it, explore it, and potentially exploit it.

多巴胺的进化是为了引导我们获取生存所需的自然奖励，比如食物、衣物、住所、寻找伴侣。

Dopamine evolved to bring us to the natural rewards that we need to live, food, clothing, shelter, finding a mate.

成瘾过程中发生的是，多巴胺信号和奖励通路被这种药物所劫持，它模仿自然奖励并通过类似机制起作用，但实际上并非自然奖励，对我们的健康有害或不利。

What happens in addiction is that that dopamine signal and the reward pathway gets hijacked by this drug that resembles a natural reward and works through that similar mechanism, but is not in fact a natural reward and is not and is actually adverse or contrary to our well-being.

但我们不再这样认为，部分原因是随着时间的推移，我们的大脑适应了这种增强的多巴胺释放。

But we no longer recognize it as such in part because over time, our brain adapts to that increased dopamine firing.

最终，我们会陷入这种慢性多巴胺缺乏的状态。

Eventually, we end up in this chronic dopamine deficit state.

现在我们使用药物不再是为了获得愉悦，而实际上只是为了让自己恢复到基线水平并停止痛苦感。

And now we're needing to use not to get pleasure, but actually just to bring ourselves back up to baseline and stop feeling pain.

但我们看不到这一点。

But we don't see that.

对。

Right.

我们看不到这一点。

We don't see that.

好的。

Okay.

所以让我试试能不能把这一点还给你。

So let me see if I can give this back to you.

所以你不断寻找新的刺激，不断回头去追求新奇，这正说明你处于多巴胺匮乏状态，因为你正在追逐这样的东西？

So the fact that you keep looking for another novel, the fact that you keep going back to the novel, that's a sign that you're in a dopamine deficit state because you're chasing something like that?

更重要的是

Even more importantly

是的。

Yeah.

当你意识到自己在使用上失去了一些自主权时。

When you you that you lose some agency around your use.

即使你或他人意识到这是有问题的，你仍然难以停止。

And that even when you or others recognize it's problematic, you have trouble stopping.

好的。

Okay.

当你不使用时，你会经历强烈的渴望和由这种渴望驱动的强迫行为，即使你已经承诺不再使用。

And when you're not using, you experience a lot of craving to use and a compulsion driven by that craving to want to do it again even when you committed to not doing it.

明白了。

Got it.

好的。

Okay.

你提到，在当今世界，我们每个人都有可能上瘾，即使我们自己没有意识到。

You've said that in today's world, every single one of us is vulnerable to addiction even if we don't realize it.

你能解释一下你这么说是什么意思吗？

Can you explain what you mean by that?

是的

Yeah.

所以我们讨论了这些让数字媒体更具成瘾性的技术特性。

So we talked about these technological affordances that make digital media more addictive.

而且，你知道，《多巴胺国度》的核心观点是我们本质上已经把一切都‘药物化’了。

And, you know, kind of the big idea in dopamine nation is that we've essentially drugified everything.

无论是物质、行为、工作还是人际关系，我们都让它们变得更易得、更强烈、更新颖，以至于我们现在几乎对任何事物都可能上瘾，包括那些我们通常认为是健康的东西。

Whether it's substances or behaviors or work or relationships, we've made it more accessible, more potent, you know, more novel such that now we're vulnerable to get addicted to just about anything, including things that we typically think of as healthy.

比如哪些？

Like what?

比如阅读。

Like reading.

对吧？

Right?

不是。

No.

不。

No.

现在我们却觉得，太好了。

Now we're like, oh, great.

我孩子在看书。

My kid's reading a book.

这太棒了。

That's awesome.

但我可以告诉你，我和许多患者都对各种形式的阅读上瘾了。

But I can tell you, I and many of my patients have gotten addicted to various forms of reading.

还有我们之前提到的人际连接也是如此。

But also things like human connection as we talked about.

对吧？

Right?

这些都很健康。

Like, they're super healthy.

我们需要彼此。

We need each other.

我们需要人际连接。

We we need human connection.

但现在我们有了这些设备，它们凭借动态的设计特性极具强化作用，即使没有真正的连接发生，也能制造出一种连接的错觉。

But now we have these devices that are so reinforcing because of their dynamic design features that they create the illusion of connection even when there's no real connection happening.

更重要的是，它们劫持了我们的奖励系统，让我们即使在用尽了它们的功能后也不愿停止使用。

And more importantly, they hijack our reward system so that we don't wanna disengage even when we've exhausted their utility.

对吧？

Right?

所以，当我们把数字媒体当作工具使用时，它们很棒；但当我们把它们当作改变情绪的毒品使用时，就不那么好了。

So these these digital media are great when we use them as a tool, not great when we use them as a drug to change the way we feel.

好的。

Alright.

我就直说了。

I'm just gonna come out and say it.

这场对话真深刻。

This conversation is intense.

我的意思是，最好的那种，莱姆克医生。

I mean, in the best way, Doctor.

莱姆克。

Lemke.

就像有人在你脑子里打开了一扇窗，啪地一下把灯全打开了。

It's like someone just opened a window in your brain and flipped the lights on.

如果你和我一样，你此刻一定在想：天哪，我伴侣得听听这个。

And if you're like me, you are already thinking, holy cow, my partner needs to hear this.

我孩子也得听听这个。

My kid needs to hear this.

我明天早上得再回放一遍。

I need to play this back tomorrow morning.

所以在你把这期节目发给需要重新获得动力的人的同时，我们先短暂休息一下，让我们的赞助商露个脸。

So while you text this episode to somebody who needs a motivation reset, we're gonna take a quick break and let our sponsors shine.

但别走开。

But don't go anywhere.

医生

Doctor.

莱姆克将在我们回来后详细指导如何重置你的多巴胺。

Lemke is about to walk us through exactly how to reset your dopamine when we come back.

请继续收听。

Stay with me.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

我是你的朋友梅尔·罗宾斯。

It's your buddy Mel Robbins.

今天，你我都有幸向世界顶尖的多巴胺专家学习，博士。

Today, you and I are getting to learn from the number one dopamine expert in the world, Doctor.

安娜·莱姆克。

Anna Lemke.

我们正在学习她关于重置多巴胺、增强意志力、完成任务以及变得更快乐的方案。

We're learning her protocols for resetting your dopamine, building willpower, getting things done, being happier.

那么，医生。

So Doctor.

莱姆克，接下来我想问您的是这个。

Lemke, the next thing I wanted to ask you about was this.

为什么连最简单的事情都这么难做到，比如去健身房、健康饮食，或者只是开始那个项目或学习？

Why is it so damn hard to do the simplest things, like going to the gym, eating healthy, or just getting started on that project or on studying?

你知道你需要去做，但似乎就是提不起劲来行动。

You know you need to do it, but you can't seem to get the get up and go to do it.

我们进化出了趋乐避苦的本能反应。

We evolved to reflexively approach pleasure and avoid pain.

明白了。

Gotcha.

在一个资源匮乏的世界里。好的。

In a world of scarcity Okay.

在那个世界里，我们需要做大量的前期工作才能获得微小的回报。

Where we would have to do a lot of upfront work for a tiny little bit of reward.

明白了。

Got it.

所以我们天生就会趋向于当下容易、当下愉悦的事物，而本能地回避去健身房或不想做的项目。

So we are designed to move toward what's easy now, towards what's pleasurable now, and we are designed to move away from the gym or away from the project that we don't wanna do.

是的。

Yes.

而且，这确实是一种在匮乏世界中让我们存活下来的绝佳内置机制。

And, again, that is a great built in mechanism to keep us alive in a world of scarcity.

但在这个充斥着过度丰裕的世界里，这个机制就变得非常糟糕，因为我们的大脑正暴露在多巴胺的洪流之中。

But in this world of overwhelming overabundance, it it's a very bad mechanism because now we're exposing our brains to this fire hose of dopamine.

我们正陷入这种多巴胺缺乏的状态。

We're getting into this dopamine deficit state.

现在我们的注意力已经变得狭窄了。

Now we've narrowed our focus.

我们只想不断追求快感来让自己恢复到基准线，而要从沙发上起身、真正走出门去，更不用说去健身房了，这已经变得像攀登珠穆朗玛峰一样困难。

All we wanna do is keep pursuing pleasure to bring ourselves back up to baseline, and the prospect of getting up off the couch and actually going out the door, much less going to the gym, has become a kind of a Mount Everest for us.

对吧？

Right?

因为我们重置了自己的快乐设定点。

Because we've reset our hedonic or joy set point.

此外，我们身处一种文化中，它告诉我们痛苦是危险的，如果我们感到不适，就可能造成心理创伤，为未来的痛苦埋下伏笔，比如创伤后应激障碍，我们需要的是追求舒适、快乐和放松，任何形式的痛苦实际上都会损害我们的大脑。

Plus, we are embedded in a culture that tells us that pain is dangerous, that if we're uncomfortable, then we're potentially creating a psychic scar that's gonna set us set us up for future pain in the form of post traumatic stress disorder, that what we need is to pursue comfort, to be happy, to be relaxed, that any kind of distress is actually going to harm our brains.

事实上，情况恰恰相反。

And in fact, the opposite is true.

当生物体承受适度痛苦时，实际上会触发我们身体自身的再调节修复机制，并开始上调让我们感觉良好的神经递质，如多巴胺、血清素、内源性阿片类物质以及内源性大麻素。

That when an organism is exposed to right sized pain, that actually triggers our body's own reregulating healing mechanisms, and we start to upregulate our feel good neurotransmitters like dopamine, like serotonin, endogenous opioids, like our endogenous cannabinoids.

因此，我们通过预先付出代价来间接获得多巴胺，这正是我们进化过程中获取它的方式。

So we get our dopamine indirectly by paying for it up front, which is the way that we evolved to get it.

重申一下，我们进化出的机制就是必须通过付出努力才能获得少量回报。

Again, we evolved to have to do work to get a little bit of reward.

所以这里的启示是，为了更快乐、体验更多喜悦，我们需要做一件反直觉的事：适度减少并大幅降低对即时、轻松愉悦的依赖，主动拥抱适度的痛苦，以重新平衡我们的快感与痛苦。

So the message here is to be happier, to experience more joy, we need to do the counterintuitive thing of moderating and greatly reducing our use of instantaneous easy pleasures and intentionally leaning into right sized pain in order to reset our pleasure pain balance.

这太有道理了。

That makes so much sense.

人类的设计本就需要一整天都经历一些痛苦的时刻。

The way that a human being is designed is we need moments of pain all day long.

你所说的，就是强迫自己从床上起来。

And what you're talking about is shoving yourself out of bed.

你所说的，是走出门去散步。

You're talking about getting out the door for a walk.

你所说的，是克服那种低迷状态，关掉电视，站起来去叠衣服，这过程可能非常痛苦。

You're talking about how painful it can be to just get yourself out of that lull, turn off the TV, stand up, and go fold the laundry.

你所说的，是拿起电话，进行一场艰难的对话。

You're talking about picking up the phone and having the hard conversation.

你所说的，是花时间更新简历或参加人工智能技能课程，而不是刷手机，而我们恰恰需要这样的时刻。

You're talking about working on your resume or taking that AI skills class instead of scrolling on your phone and the problem and and that we need that.

我们需要能够全天不断地推动自己度过痛苦时刻，因为这就是我们被设计的工作方式，而现代生活如此便捷，我们已将其优化到极致——你甚至可以直接点餐。

We need to be able to push ourselves through moments of pain all day long because that's how we were designed to work and modern life and the way it is so easy and so convenient and we've optimized for, you can order your food.

你完全不需要自己做饭或思考吃什么。

You don't even have to cook anything or think about it.

哦，你可以坐在沙发上，就会有人给你送来。

Oh, you can sit on the couch and somebody will bring it.

你甚至都不用动。

You don't even have to.

你可以在上班路上收听15个不同的电台，如果感到无聊的话。

You can listen you you can listen to 15 different radio stations on the way to work if you get bored.

所以你甚至无法忍受无聊，我猜这原本只是那些微小痛苦时刻之一。

So you don't even tolerate boredom, which was I would imagine would be just one of these small moments of pain.

感到无聊并不有趣，但我们却伸手去拿手机。

It's not any fun to be bored, but we reach for our phone.

因此我们从内到外彻底打乱了自己，因为我们如今不断追求愉悦。

And so we've so completely whacked ourselves from the inside out because we're constantly now reaching for pleasure.

我们现在已经习惯了持续不断的刺激。

We are so used now to constantly being stimulated.

对吧？

Right?

仅仅安静地坐着对我们来说就令人恐惧。

That simply sitting in the quiet is terrifying for us.

这确实令人恐惧，因为我们总是在对外部刺激做出反应。

It's absolutely terrifying because we're always reacting to external stimuli.

我们无法安心面对自己的思绪。

We we're not comfortable with our own thoughts.

当你暂时断开连接时，那些被你一直压抑的想法和情绪会汹涌而来，你通过各种愉悦的刺激来分散注意力，从而回避它们。

You know, when we disconnect for a period of time, we have this flooding of these, you know, thoughts and emotions that we've been putting at bay, you know, by distracting ourselves with all these, you know, pleasurable stimuli.

这真的可能非常可怕。

And and it can be really scary.

这确实很痛苦。

Like, that is painful.

但我们坐得越久，就越能逐渐适应，好吧。

But the longer we can sit and just kind of like, okay.

对我们浮现的念头保持好奇，这正是正念练习如此重要的地方，甚至要欢迎这种不适感，但同时也要命名并识别它。

Be curious about what comes up for us, and this is where mindfulness practices are so important, and even welcome that discomfort, but also name it and recognize it.

所以，你知道，不仅仅是强行忍受不适，而是去接受它，好吧。

So, you know, not even just so much pushing through discomfort, but just going, okay.

我现在感到不舒服，但这没关系。

I'm uncomfortable now, and that's okay.

你知道吗？

You know?

我可以坦然面对它，只是保持好奇，它也会过去的。

And and I can sit with this and just be curious about it, and it it too will pass.

我会达到一个境界，在那里我已经建立起心理上的老茧，能够忍受更多的不适。

And I will get to a place where I've actually then built up mental calluses to tolerate more discomfort.

当然，这就是我认为很多人觉得有帮助的暴露疗法的基本理念。

And this is, of course, you know, the the sort of underpinning of exposure therapy that I think so many people are are finding helpful.

在我们讨论到底该怎么做之前，我想问一个问题，Lemke医生：长期沉迷于这些微小、廉价、容易获得的多巴胺快感，总是选择轻松、轻松、再轻松的事情，这会如何长期破坏我们的动力？

One thing I wanna ask before we talk about what the hell do we do, doctor Lemke, is how does overwarding yourself with these small, little, cheap dopamine pleasure, easy, easy, easy, do the easy thing, How does that mess up our motivation in the long term?

这会破坏我们的动力，因为我们变得只关注短期回报。

It messes up our motivation because we become narrowly focused on short term rewards.

我们失去了看到长期回报的能力，而那些回报需要前期付出努力，却对我们的福祉更有益——从数月到数年来看都是如此。

And we lose the ability to see the longer term rewards that require the upfront work that are actually better for our well-being, you know, over months to years.

那么，痛苦也会感觉更强烈吗？

So does the pain also feel bigger?

所以，如果你身边总是充满愉悦和轻松的干扰，你就会选择做简单的事。

So if you have constant pleasure, easy distraction around you, I'll just do the easy thing.

我会直接点个饿了么。

I'll just order the Uber Eats.

我就做这个。

I'll just do this.

我就做那个。

I'll just do that.

从长远来看，要从沙发上起来去散步会不会感觉更难？

Does it feel harder over the long run to get off the couch or to go for that walk?

当然。

Absolutely.

而且，通过改变我们的享乐或快乐设定点，是的。

And, again, by changing our hedonic or joy set point Yep.

这意味着我们需要更大的愉悦感才能感受到任何快乐。

What it means is that we need bigger pleasures to feel any pleasure at all.

哦。

Oh.

即使是最轻微的痛苦也变得极其难熬。

And even the merest pain is incredibly painful.

我们现在在临床护理中也看到这种情况，人们谈起一些他们难以完成的非常普通的事情。

And we see this now in clinical care where, you know, people talk about really quite ordinary things that they struggle to do.

比如，仅仅支付账单、从沙发上起来去见人，或者洗碗。

You know, simply paying a bill or getting off the couch and going and meeting with people or doing the dishes.

要知道，这些其实是日常生活中常见的事情，通常我们都不太喜欢做，但它们带来的痛苦感却比前几代人更强烈。

Now these are, you know, kind of everyday things that, you know, nobody really likes or generally we don't like, but they're even more painful than in prior generations.

嗯，我可以举个例子来扩展一下，说明一个普通人正如何与动力不足作斗争。

Well, you know, one example that I can point to to kinda broaden this out to a normal person who's just really struggling with motivation Yeah.

你知道，这就像是，我其实并没有对什么东西上瘾，但是……

You know, doesn't it's like, well, I'm not really addicted to anything, but Right.

确实可以说，但我真的把痛苦和快乐的关系搞砸了。

Has really leaned in to say, but I've really screwed up the pain pleasure Yes.

身体的平衡。

Balance in my body.

我发现自己越来越难以集中注意力，或者去做那些有点困难的小事，或者有动力去做我需要做的事情。

I am finding it harder and harder to concentrate or to do the little hard things or to be motivated to do the things that I needed to do.

如果你曾经有过这样的经历，或者作为父母有这样的经历，你的孩子去参加学校的过夜露营或者实地考察，他们的手机被收走，他们被迫忍受这种情况。

If you've ever had an experience or you have an experience as a parent where your kids go to like a school sleepaway camp or they go on a field trip and they take their phones away and they are forced to tolerate that.

是的。

Yeah.

他们变得快乐多了。

They are so much happier.

对。

Yes.

这就是你的身体如何自然恢复的例子。

And so it's an example of how your body naturally resets.

对。

Yes.

一旦你环境中和你身上移除了廉价的多巴胺来源，身体就会恢复到稳态。

To a homeostasis once the cheap dopamine thing is removed from your environment and from you.

这就是为什么我认为我们都需要一次多巴胺排毒。

And that's why I think we all need a dopamine detox.

是的。

Yeah.

而且要真正理解，如果你在生活的任何方面都感到缺乏动力，或者难以完成任何困难的事情，是的。

And to really understand that if you're struggling with motivation in any area of your life, if you're struggling with doing anything difficult Yes.

如果你在享受生活各方面时感到困难，那这是一个非常值得重视的问题，因为这很有道理。

If you're struggling with enjoying aspects of your life, that this is a really serious place to take a look because this makes a lot of sense.

那就加点别的东西进去。

Just add something in there.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，这种禁欲试验或多巴胺排毒的关键在于，我们其实并没有戒除多巴胺，因为我们并没有摄入多巴胺。

So and key to this this absence trial or this dopamine detox, and we're not actually abstaining from dopamine because we're not ingesting dopamine.

它只是在我们的大脑中被触发的一种机制，但如今它更像是一种隐喻或网络迷因。

It's it's something that gets triggered in our brains, but it's kind of a metaphor or a meme at this point.

但关键在于，要足够长时间地戒除，让那些小鬼从痛苦的一端跳开，让身体恢复稳态。

The key to it, though, is to abstain for long enough to allow those gremlins to hop off the pain side of the balance and for homeostasis to be restored.

因为如果我们戒除的时间不够长，结果就是：我们把愉悦和奖励从愉悦的一端移开，而痛苦一端积累的小鬼会把我们拖垮，导致我们出现戒断反应。

Because if we don't abstain from for long enough, what happens is we take our pleasure our reward off of the pleasure side, the gremlins accumulating on the pain side crash us down, and we are in withdrawal.

对吧？

Right?

在这种戒断状态下，我们会经历焦虑、易怒、失眠、情绪低落，以及一种仿佛永远不会好转的强烈渴望。

And in that state of withdrawal, we experience anxiety, irritability, insomnia, dysphoria, and also intense craving that feels like it will never get better.

但最令人惊叹的是，一旦我们熬过急性戒断期——对大多数人来说大约是十四天——我们就能够走出来。

But what is so amazing is that once we get over the hump of sort of that acute withdrawal for most people, which is about fourteen days, we come out the

变成另一个人。

other person.

是针对硬毒品，还是适用于所有情况？

Hard drug, or is that for everything?

这会不会也适用于，比如不查看某人的位置？

Could that be for, like, not checking Oh.

是查看某人的位置吗？

Person's location?

这可能适用于

It could be

是的。

Yes.

事实上，研究发现，那些戒掉社交媒体的青少年会感到不那么抑郁、不那么焦虑、也不那么孤独，但前提是他们能坚持足够长的时间——平均而言，大约需要三到四周不使用社交媒体。

In fact, you know, studies looking at teenagers who get off of social media find that they feel less depressed, less anxious, and less lonely, but only if they go for long enough, which is on average about three to four weeks of abstaining from social media.

根据我的临床经验，无论是什么药物，也不管依附程度有多严重，只要人们能坚持三到四周，大多数人——虽然不是全部，但大约百分之八十的人——都会感觉更好，渴望感也会减轻。

In my clinical experience, kind of no matter the drug and no matter the the sort of severity of the attachment, if people can go for about three to four weeks, they generally, not always, but about eighty percent of folks feel better and experience less craving.

哇。

Wow.

但如果他们只坚持了两周或更短时间，通常就无法摆脱那股渴望的漩涡，也不会真正相信这个实验，因为他们会觉得：‘这对我没用。’

But if they only go for two weeks or less, they do not typically get out of that vortex of craving, and then they don't also kind of, you know, believe in the experiment, right, because they feel like, oh, it didn't work for me.

那你要问，你戒了多久？

It's like, well, how long did you abstain?

因为这真的需要足够长的时间，让那些比喻中的小妖精离开，让基础的奖赏系统重新恢复平衡。

Because you it really needs to be long enough, you know, again, for those metaphorical gremlins to hop off and for sort of baseline reward to be

helpful to say to know that the craving is simply your body working through this pain pleasure seesaw being out of whack.

helpful to say to know that the craving is simply your body working through this pain pleasure seesaw being out of whack.

而且这是暂时的。

And it's time limited.

这是暂时的。

It's time limited.

它会过去的，但这确实是一个信号。

That it will pass, but it is a sign Yes.

这表明一切都在正常运作，因为你正在努力恢复平衡状态。

That everything's functioning as it should be because you're trying to get back to homeostasis.

如果你感到渴望，实际上你做得对。

And if you're feeling the craving, you're actually doing it correctly.

没错。

That's right.

正是如此。

Exactly.

你正在朝一个好的方向前进。

You're you're moving toward a good place.

因此，与其把多巴胺戒断或戒断试验看作是剥夺自己奖励，不如将其重新定义为一种健康的行为，迈向更好的生活。

So it's reframing the dopamine fast or the abstinence trial as not denying ourselves a reward, but actually doing something healthy, moving toward a better life.

所以你可以针对任何事情，在三到四周的时间里进行一次多巴胺戒断。

So you could create a dopamine detox over a three to four week period over anything.

是的。

Yeah.

无论是‘我四周内不会把手机放在床边睡觉，早上醒来时虽然会很想伸手去拿，但我不会这么做’。

Whether it's I'm not going to sleep next to my phone for four weeks, And I'm gonna wake up in the morning, and I'm gonna feel the craving to reach for it, I'm not gonna do it.

你也可以尝试排队挑战。

You could take on the standing in line challenge.

在接下来的四周里，每次排队时我都不会去拿手机。

Every time I'm standing in line for the next four weeks, I am not going to reach for my phone.

我会练习忍受那种焦虑、沮丧、烦躁、恼火的痛苦体验。

I'm going to practice all the tolerance and the painful experience of feeling anxious, depressed, agitated, pissed off in that line.

如果我感受到这些情绪，说明我做对了。

And if I feel those things, I'm doing this correctly Yeah.

因为我正在让自己重新回到内稳态。

Because I'm getting myself back into homeostasis.

哦，我太喜欢这个了。

Oh, I love this.

这对我来说非常有道理。

This makes a lot of sense to me.

是的。

Yeah.

很好。

Good.

很好。

Good.

我们来谈谈不适感。

And let's talk about discomfort.

刻意制造不适感如何帮助我们变得更快乐、更有动力？

How can intentional discomfort help us become happier and more motivated?

你能向听众解释一下，这具体是什么样的做法吗？

And could you explain to the person listening, what does that look like?

太好了。

Great.

回到多巴胺戒断和快乐痛苦平衡的话题，我们鼓励人们在一段时间内，至少四周，戒除他们依赖的‘药物’，让那些小恶魔慢慢离开。

So getting back to dopamine fasting and the pleasure pain balance, we're encouraging people to abstain for a period of time, minimum four weeks from their drug of choice to allow those gremlins to slowly hop off.

这需要时间，以便体内平衡得以恢复。

It takes time so that homeostasis can be restored.

但是，假设性地，我们可以通过有意识地按压天平痛苦的一侧来加速这个过程。

But, hypothetically, we can speed up that process by intentionally pressing on the pain side of the balance.

例如，有研究表明，正在戒除酒精和药物成瘾的人，如果他们进行剧烈运动，可以减轻戒断症状。

So for example, there are studies showing that people in withdrawal from, you know, alcohol and drug addiction, if they engage in vigorous exercise, they can decrease the symptoms of withdrawal.

他们可以达到一种感觉更强烈康复的状态，并且实际上可以通过锻炼来预防或降低复发的风险。

They can get to a place where they're feeling more of a strong recovery, and they can actually prevent or decrease their risk of relapse just by engaging in exercise.

为什么？

Why?

嗯，再次用这个比喻来形象化大脑中可能发生的情况：如果我们现在有意地按压天平痛苦的一侧，那些小妖精，那些比喻中的小妖精就会跑到快乐的一侧，我们可以通过预先支付来间接获得多巴胺。

Well, again, using this metaphor to sort of visualize what might be happening in the brain is that if we intentionally now press on the pain side of the balance, those gremlins, those metaphorical gremlins will go to the pleasure side, and we can get our dopamine indirectly by paying for it up front.

这方面的经典例子就是跑步者的愉悦感。

And the classic example of this is the runner's high.

对吧？

Right?

我们知道，运动实际上会对细胞造成损伤。

So we know that that exercise is actually injurious to cells.

因此，在细胞层面，运动是有毒的。

So at the cellular level, exercise is toxic.

但我们也知道，运动对我们非常有益。

But we also know exercise is really good for us.

那么它是如何起作用的呢？

So how does it work?

很可能的情况是，身体在感受到运动带来的轻微损伤后，会开始上调我们自身的愉悦神经递质，包括多巴胺。

What's probably happening is that the body senses minor injury in response to to exercise and then starts to upregulate, again, our own feel good neurotransmitters, including dopamine.

既然我们现在明白，全天有意地承受痛苦——做困难的事、推动内心的杠杆、强迫自己去做这些事——对你的幸福至关重要。

Since we now understand that intentional pain throughout your day, doing hard things, pushing that lever inside yourself, forcing yourself to do these things, that it is so important for your happiness.

这对你身体和大脑的正常运作至关重要。

It's so important for your body to function correctly and your brain to function correctly.

所以我希望你以医生的身份接受这一点。

And so I want you to take this on as Doctor.

莱姆克是这样描述的。

Lemke describes this.

从你醒来那一刻到上床睡觉，为了自己的幸福和健康而开始刻意引入不适感，这会是什么样子？

What would it look like from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed to start to insert intentional discomfort for your own happiness and well-being?

我们就以一位非常担心自己过度使用手机和科技产品的人为例，他们仍然需要去工作，让我们从你醒来的那一刻开始，看看你可以如何通过有意识地制造不适来帮助自己重新调整。

Let's just take somebody who is really concerned about their overuse of the phone and technology, they still have to go to work, and let's just walk through the moment you wake up and what you could do with intentional discomfort to start to help yourself reset this.

好的。

Okay.

你醒来的那一刻，嗯哼。

The moment that you wake up Mhmm.

实际上从前一天晚上就开始了。

Actually begins with the night before.