008 艾萨克·哈克斯顿——心态优势播客

欢迎来到《思维优势》播客第八期，我是主持人。

Welcome to episode eight of the Mindset Advantage podcast with Doctor.

我是特蕾西·卡德纳和埃利奥特·罗。

Tricia Cardner and Elliot Rowe.

特蕾西，跟我们聊聊你自己吧。

So Tricia, tell us about yourself.

大家好。

Hi, everyone.

我是《Positive Poker》一书的作者，专门为中阶和顶尖扑克选手提供心理辅导。

I am the author of Positive Poker and I do middle game coaching for up and coming as well as elite poker players.

我还在 Red Chip Poker 平台上提供中阶心理辅导。

And I do middle game coaching over at Red Chip Poker.

我叫 Elliot，专门从事针对扑克选手和 UFC 格斗选手的催眠治疗。

And my name is Elliot and I specialize in hypnotherapy for poker players and UFC fighters.

这期节目我们请到了 Ike Haxton，他是 PokerStars 的在线职业选手，来跟我们聊聊心态在他的扑克生涯中产生了怎样的影响。

This week we've got Ike Haxton, who's a Team PokerStars online pro coming on to talk to us about how mindset has impacted him over his poker career.

不过在那之前，特丽莎，这周你有什么新鲜事要跟我们分享吗？

But before that, what news have you got for us this week Tricia?

埃利奥特，你有没有想过，听音乐对打牌时的人会产生什么影响？

Elliot, have you ever wondered the impact that listening to music can have on a person while they're playing poker?

确实有不少我的客户提到过这个问题，想知道是不是某种类型的音乐更适合在打牌时听。

It's actually something that quite a few of my clients have mentioned as to whether there's sort of a better type of music to be listening to.

那具体有什么发现呢？

So what's come up?

其实已经有了一些研究。

Well, there's been some research.

不过这些研究是针对运动员的。

Now it has to do with athletes.

这一点你要记清楚。

So keep that in mind.

虽然还没人专门研究过扑克玩家，但结果挺有意思的。

Nobody's done it with poker yet, but there has been some interesting findings.

比如研究显示，乡村音乐能提升击球表现，说唱音乐有助于提高投篮命中率，而跑步时听任何节奏快的音乐都能让你跑得更久、更快。

For example, research shows that country music improves batting, rap music improves jump shots, and people who are doing running, any up tempo music will improve your running.

你会跑得更久、更快，总之效果更好。

You'll run longer, faster, whatever.

这些都属于高强度的体育运动。

Now those are all sort of super athletic sports.

不过最近我看到一项研究，对象是高尔夫球手。

So in a recent study that I found, they looked at golfers.

研究人员让高尔夫球手听不同类型的音乐，包括古典、乡村、摇滚、爵士和嘻哈，还设了一个不放音乐的对照组，看看哪种音乐最能提升推杆表现。

And basically they had golfers listen to music and they included classical country, rock, jazz, hip hop, and there was a no music condition to see which version would make you putt the best.

你想猜猜看，哪种音乐对高尔夫球手帮助最大？

And would you care to guess which one was the most helpful to golfers?

我猜是古典音乐。

I guess classical.

这个猜测很棒。

That is a great guess.

但有趣的是，爵士乐效果最好，这就是他们的想法。

But interestingly enough, jazz was the best Now this is what the idea was.

顺便说一下，这项研究发表在2014年的《运动增强期刊》上。

And by the way, this can be found in the Journal of Athletic Enhancement in the 2014.

我记得应该是2014年11月的那一期。

I think it was like November 2014 edition.

不过总的来说，他们发现唯一没有帮助的是完全不听音乐。

But anyway, they found the only condition that did not help was no music.

每种音乐至少都带来了一些好处，但爵士乐的效果最明显。

Every kind of music at least provided some benefit, but jazz provided the most.

他们认为这是因为爵士乐有种让人平静的作用。

And they thought it was because the jazz had like a calming effect.

而如果你听节奏快的音乐，反而会提高你的兴奋程度。

Whereas if you listen to something up tempo, it can increase your level of arousal.

这其实挺有意思的，因为不听音乐反而效果更差，有些扑克玩家为了避免干扰，平时根本不敢听音乐。

And that that's actually really interesting that no music was a negative because there are some players who actually hold themselves back from listening to music whilst playing poker in case it's an issue.

但我认为，在高尔夫果岭上思考筹码压力，和在扑克桌上那种感觉其实很相似。

But I would think the sort of the pressure of thinking through a pot on a golfing green is very similar to the sort of feelings that people are gonna have on a poker table.

没错，我也是这么想的。

You know, that's kind of what I thought.

既然还没人做过关于扑克玩家的研究，那玩家们不如自己动手试试看。

So I'm thinking since, you know, research hasn't been done with poker players, so players are gonna have to do a little experimentation for themselves.

我建议你多试几种不同类型的音乐，看看对你的牌技有什么影响。

But I would definitely try and listen to some different genres of music and just see what impact it has on your game.

对。

Yeah.

虽然没有确凿的结论，但值得一试。

So nothing definitive, but definitely worth giving a try to.

如果你从来没在打扑克时听过音乐，至少试着听一两次，看看专注力会不会提升。

And if you've never listened to music during your poker, worth giving it a try at least once or twice just to see if your focus does start to increase.

这周的建议太棒了。

Great, great, great tip this week.

谢谢，特里莎。

Thanks, Trisha.

现在有艾克要上场了。

And we've got Ike coming on now.

正如我所说，他是PokerStars的线上职业选手。

He's, as I said, a PokerStars online pro.

他经常参加各种线上高额桌游戏。

He's in a lot of online high stakes games.

他玩的是无限注德州扑克。

He plays No Limit.

他在线上也玩PLO。

He also plays PLO online.

此外，他在现场锦标赛中也取得了巨大成功，累计奖金超过九百万美元。

But he's also had a lot of success in live tournaments with over $9,000,000 of cashes in live tournaments as well.

所以他现在要上场了。

So he's coming on now.

那我们这就给他打个电话。

So we'll just give him a ring.

谢谢伊克来参加我们的节目。

So thanks, Ike, for coming on the show.

能不能跟我们的听众聊聊你的经历和你的扑克故事？

If you could tell our listeners about yourself and your poker story.

嗨。

Hey.

是的。

Yeah.

能来这儿非常荣幸。

It's a pleasure to be on here.

我玩扑克已经有些年头了。

I've been around poker for a while at this point.

我大学一年级的时候就开始玩了，大概是2004年左右。

I started playing my freshman year of college back in, I guess, was 2004 or so.

我刚开始打牌的时候，线上线下都玩一点，那是我职业生涯的早期。

I started out I played a little bit of live end online poker both early on in my career.

一开始玩的是限注德州，赌注很小，但开局运气不错，很快就升注了。

Started out playing limit hold'em, playing pretty small stakes, and ran pretty hot early on and moved up pretty quickly.

到第一年结束的时候，我已经在玩十五三十、三十六十的限注德州了。

By the end of my first year, I was playing, like, fifteen thirty, thirty sixty limit hold'em.

后来这些年，我慢慢转到了无限制玩法，也开始打一些锦标赛。

And, yeah, over the years, transitioned to no limit, started playing some tournaments.

最近几年，我还开始玩PLO。

In the last couple of years, I've been playing PLO as well.

过去几年，我一直都是PokerStars线上战队的成员。

For the past few years, I've been a member of PokerStars team online.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yes.

你的扑克经历可真丰富啊。

So quite the poker history.

我在这行也混了不少年头了。

Been around a little while, this one.

这些年你见证了扑克界的种种变化，心态对你在牌桌上——无论是线上还是线下——的成功有多重要？

So over those years and all the sort of changes you've seen in poker, how important's mindset been for you in terms of your success at the table, be it online or live?

我觉得这影响特别大。

I think it's made a big difference.

我见过太多人，职业生涯来来去去，问题不在牌技，而在心态和打法，他们没能调整好，最终影响了长期的职业表现。

I've seen a lot of people over the course of my career come and go because their mindset and things about their approach to the game apart from the hand to hand strategic decision making were not as good as they could have been and interfered in their ability to play both professionally in the long run.

其实我本来想说，

You know, I was gonna

有些人一受挫就情绪失控，把钱全扔进去。

some people just tilt and throw in their money.

有些人就是专注不了，没法坚持长时间打牌。

Some people can't focus and get the hours in.

我一直都很重视这些方面，而且它们对我来说也相对自然地就掌握了。

And I've always taken those parts of the game seriously and to a pretty significant extent had them come fairly naturally to me.

所以我觉得这些年里，这对我帮助很大。

So I think that that has made a big difference to me over the years.

我本来想问问你，你觉得大家最容易在哪些方面自我设限，从而阻碍自己取得成功呢？

I was gonna kinda ask you about that in terms of what would be the most common ways you see people kind of get in their own way of success?

这个问题挺难回答的。

That's a tricky question.

确实有很多。

There really are a lot.

我觉得有一件事不太常被提到，但影响很大，就是有些人把自尊心看得太重，觉得自己扑克打得特别厉害，结果反而阻碍了自己进步。

One thing that I think, doesn't get talked about that much, but that can be a big issue is when people get their ego too wrapped up in how great they are at poker and allow that to interfere in their ability to learn.

他们不愿意听取别人的意见，也不愿意复盘自己的牌局，或者看教学视频之类的，因为潜意识里害怕看到自己犯错的证据，害怕发现自己其实没那么厉害。

They don't want to ask other people's opinions or review their own play or watch videos or anything like that because they're sort of subconsciously afraid of coming into contact with evidence that they're making mistakes and that they're not as good as they'd like to think they are.

这确实很有道理。

That definitely makes sense.

自信对玩家在牌桌上的感受和发挥影响巨大。

The confidence plays a huge role how people feel at the table and then how they play.

确实有很多人不敢去确认，自己以为对的东西其实可能是错的。

And there's definitely a lot of guys who shy away from finding out something they know is right could actually be wrong.

关于如何把学习融入每周安排，这么多年下来，你现在是怎么提升牌技的？

In terms of integrating study into your week, how do you work on your game now after all of these years in the game?

我会复盘自己的牌局，用PokerTracker逐手分析，打牌时还会标记手牌——这个功能其实早就有了，但我最近才注意到HUD上有个小按钮，可以一键标记手牌，方便之后回看。

Reviewing my own play, just going through PokerTracker, and I'll tag hands while I'm playing, which is I think a feature that's been around forever, but only discovered somewhat recently that there's a little button on the HUD you can hit to tag a hand for review later.

最近我经常用这个功能，挺方便的。

I've been using that a bunch recently, and that's pretty nice.

我也会观察对手的打法，既看单手牌的细节，也从宏观层面分析他们的行动频率，还会和别人讨论牌局，都是些常规做法。

And, yeah, looking at what my opponents are doing both in individual hands and looking at frequencies on a macro level, talking about hands with people, the usual things.

从比例上来说，你平时花多少时间在研究扑克上？

Percentage wise, what sort of percentage poker to study do you do?

这个比例对我来说变化挺大的。

That varies a lot for me.

首先，我打的注码挺高的。

Well, for one thing, I play pretty high stakes.

所以有些周特别忙，有些周几乎没什么牌局。

So some weeks it's really busy and some weeks there's almost no action.

忙的时候，打牌和研究的时间比例可能是九比一，甚至更高。

And in a busy week it might be ninety-ten poker to studying or even more.

但另一些周，情况可能正好相反。

But then on another week, it could be close to the inverse.

那会儿我几乎不打牌，却花大量时间研究。

I'll play almost no poker and spend a lot of hours studying.

所以算上我整个职业生涯，大概平均有75%的时间在打牌，可能还略少一点。

So I guess over the course of my career, I've probably averaged maybe 75% actually playing or a little less.

明白了。

Okay.

以前你打无限制德州扑克单挑的时候，别人都不愿意跟你玩。

Now back in the day, you know, you were playing no limit, hold them, heads up, and people didn't want to play with you.

那这方面有什么变化吗？

So how has that changed?

现在人们还是不太愿意跟艾克·哈克森对局吗？

Is it still the case that, you know, people are a little bit hesitant to play with Ike Haxton?

还是说现在找你对局的人变多了？

Or are you getting more takers these days?

确实有一小撮人特别想跟我打，但我自己反而不太想跟他们玩。

Well, there's definitely a short list of people who are eager to play me, who I've been reluctant to play against myself.

但认为自己能赢我、想跟我打单挑无限注或单挑PLO的职业玩家，名单还是非常短。

But the list of people, professional players who think they have an edge on me and want to play heads up no limit or heads up PLO for that matter with me is still pretty short.

不过也不是完全没有。

But it's not zero.

我之前看过你的一次采访，说你对冥想感兴趣。

And I read in a previous interview you'd done that you're interested in meditation.

现在我做的很多工作都是引导式冥想。

And now a lot of the work I do is guided meditation.

催眠其实只是换了个名字而已。

Hypnosis is it under a dunth name.

特里什在书里也写了很多关于冥想的内容。

And Trish has actually also written a lot about meditation in the book.

你觉得冥想对你的扑克牌技有什么帮助？

So how do you feel that the meditation helps you as a poker player?

我觉得这非常有用。

I think it's enormously useful.

我几乎每天都会冥想五到二十分钟，看当天能抽出多少时间，或者有多想静下心来坐二十分钟。

I start almost every day by meditating for five to twenty minutes, depending on how much time I can spare or how motivated to sit still for twenty minutes I'm feeling.

如果哪天没做，我立刻就能感觉到自己的专注力、情绪控制力全都下滑了。

And on days where I skip it, it's really noticeable to me that my focus and emotional control and everything like that is much worse.

是的，我觉得这真的特别有帮助。

Yeah, I find it hugely helpful.

我更能集中注意力，耐力也更好，能打更长时间，水平也更高。

I have better focus, more stamina, can put in more hours playing at a higher level.

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，我确实注意到，我合作过的高注额玩家中，有很大一部分人经常冥想。

I mean, it's definitely something I've seen that a large percentage of the highest stakes players I work with meditate frequently.

是的

Yeah.

这在圈子里显然非常普遍，我也完全认同这一点。

It certainly seems to be very big in the community and as I say obviously I certainly agree with them.

关于你对扑克未来几年发展的看法，你预计会看到什么变化？

In terms of how you see poker moving forward over the next few years, what are you expecting to see?

真的很难说。

It's really hard to say.

无限注德州扑克似乎正在走下坡路，至少在现金桌形式上是这样。

No Limit Hold'em seems to be a little bit on the way out, at least in the cash game format.

但锦标赛显然不会消失，只是我觉得，如今玩无限注现金桌的盈利空间已经不如其他牌型了。

No tournaments don't appear to be going anywhere, but it doesn't feel to me like there's that much money to be made as a no limit cash game player these days, at least relative to other games.

现在玩PLO感觉是个不错的选择。

Right now, PLO feels like a pretty good place to be.

我觉得混合游戏正在兴起。

I think mixed games are growing.

我一点都不奇怪，未来三到五年里，一些现在没人玩的游戏突然火起来。

I wouldn't be surprised to see games that are presently not at all popular take off in the next three to five years?

你看那些最高注额的现场扑克，玩家们都特别想尝试新玩法。

It seems like, definitely if you look at the highest stakes live poker, people are eager to play new games.

老游戏的高手们太强了，大家玩起来反而没意思，不如试试点新鲜的。

The specialists in the established games have gotten so good that it's really more fun for everybody to play something a bit novel.

所以在这种环境下，我觉得能快速学会新游戏会变得越来越重要。

So in that climate, being good at learning new games is going to be increasingly important, I think.

你觉得在线扑克什么时候能全面重返美国市场？

What do you think about the likelihood of online poker coming back in full force to United States?

你觉得这一天快来了吗？

Do you think that's on the horizon?

在你看来，我们还有很长的路要走吗？

Or do we still have a long way to go in your opinion?

说实话，我对这个领域并不太了解。

You know, I'm really not an expert on it.

我实在没法静下心来细想美国的政治问题。

I can't really stomach thinking about American politics for too long.

所以我干脆接受它超出了我的掌控，只能跟着世界的发展做自己该做的事。

So I pretty much accept that it's out of my control, and I will do what I have to do with the way the world progresses.

我并不特别乐观。

I can't say I'm hugely optimistic.

现在有大量资金在对抗在线扑克的发展。

There seems to be a lot of money laid out against online poker interests.

这并不

That doesn't

是个好兆头

Doesn't bode well

在美国政治里。

in American politics.

说到大笔资金投入，你很久以前有过一段经历，可能我们一些听众还记得。

Speaking of large outlays of money, you were a long time ago and maybe some of our listeners will remember this.

你当时有大约80万美元被卡在了网络银行系统里，就是那种Net Teller的时代吧。

You had about $800,000 stuck back in the, what was it, net teller days or whatever it was.

是啊，那事儿有多让人崩溃？

Yeah, how tilting was that?

它影响到你的打法了吗？

Did it change your game?

你当时很担心，还是照常继续打？

Were you worried about it or did you just go on as normal?

那事儿真挺让人难受的。当时我预期最糟的情况几乎就要成真了，因为有人告诉我，即使拿不回那笔钱，我也得为它缴税，这意味着我的净资产可能变成负数。

It was pretty upsetting At the sort of trough of my expectations for how that could play out, it seemed pretty likely that it would produce a situation where my net worth was very negative because I had been advised that I was going to owe taxes on that money even if I never got it back.

那笔钱占了我总资产的很大一部分。

And it was a big fraction of my net worth.

所以我当时眼看就要亏近一百万美元，还欠国税局二十五万美元。

So I was looking at having just one close to $1,000,000 and being left in a quarter million dollars of debt to the IRS.

那时候我确实压力很大。

So I was pretty stressed out about that.

不过我觉得这并没有太影响我在牌桌上的发挥，只是那段时间资金悬而未决时，我正好碰上了一段很糟的连败。

I don't think it affected my play at the tables all that much, though I did happen to go on a fairly bad downswing over the period of time where that money was in limbo.

这确实让人很焦虑。

It was certainly stressful.

而且如果连败正好发生在那时候，那恐怕也不是巧合。

And possibly not coincidental as well if the downswing came just at that time.

听起来这两件事很可能是有关联的。

That sounds like something that could have easily been connected.

确实有可能。

It certainly could.

我没法排除这种可能性。

I can't rule that out.

那看来你再经历一次全投、绝对这些事的时候，心理上已经更有准备了。

Then I guess you were a little more equipped to go through it again with the whole full tilt, absolute and all that business.

是的。

Yep.

没错，第二次、第三次遇到这种情况时，对我的职业生涯来说，压力没那么大了。

Yeah, it was less of an existential threat to my career the second and third times around that I've had to deal with those sorts of things.

而且那时候很多玩家都离开了线上，只想去打现场。

And I mean, players moved away from online and just wanted to play live for a while.

你有没有动过这个念头？

Is that something that you were ever tempted to do?

就是与其换种方式打，不如直接去现场桌边坐着玩。

So sort of rather than move away to some way you could play, just go and sit in the live game somewhere instead.

没有。

Not really.

我其实不太喜欢打现场的现金局。

I don't really like playing live cash games all that much.

我一直在努力改善这一点。

I've been trying to work on that.

我觉得现场现金局确实有赚钱的机会，如果遇到这样的机会，我应该更愿意去把握。

I do think there's money to be made in live cash games, and it would be good to be more open to taking those opportunities when they present themselves.

但说实话，我对现场现金局的整个体验都觉得挺让人烦躁的。

But, yeah, I find everything about the live cash game experience kind of frustrating.

等座位要等很久，牌局又慢得要命。就算你一天能打个几百手，真当职业玩家也行，但在我看来，这日子太难熬了。

There's so much waiting around for a seat in the game, and the game moves so slow Once you're all playing, you're getting to play a couple 100 hands a day is you can be a professional live cash game player for sure, but it sounds like a tough life to me.

感觉你动不动就遇到半年连败的情况。

It sounds like you have a lot of six month losing streaks.

我可不想经历这种事。

And I wouldn't particularly like that.

是的。

Yeah.

顺便问一下，早年你刚入行的时候，据说你给自己定过一个目标，就是一年赚一百万美元，后来你确实做到了。

Just to kind of follow-up, back early in your career, you had set a goal for yourself or at least this was what was reported that you to make a million dollars in a year, which you did end up doing.

很多人说，作为扑克玩家，不该设立这种金钱目标，但我特别欣赏你设立了这样的目标，而且真的做到了。

A lot of people say, you know, as poker players, you shouldn't make these monetary goals, but I love it that you did make that goal and you did achieve it.

那你现在对扑克玩家设立这类目标怎么看呢？

But what are your present thoughts about that kind of goal setting for poker players?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得设定具体的金钱目标，通常并不是个好办法。

I think monetary goal setting is typically not a good way of going about things.

就连当年那件事，也并不是我刻意定下一个具体的金额目标。

And even in that case, it's not exactly the case that set a specific monetary goal.

那时候的情况是，UIGEA法案通过了，我正犹豫要不要休学一年，全职打牌，趁法案生效前抓紧机会，毕竟之后在美国玩在线扑克可能就没法进行了。

It was more that the context that came up in was UIGEA passed, and I was deciding whether or not to take a year off from school to play full time before UIGEA went into effect and potentially playing online poker from The US is to be an option.

所以我更多是在估算，如果全职打牌，一年大概能赚多少，而不是给自己设了个硬性目标。

So it was more I was estimating what I thought I could expect to make in a year than that I was specifically setting myself a target.

也就是说，是根据情况估算出一个合理可行的年收入水平。

So sort of an achievable level of income if everything goes correctly.

没错。

Right.

当时只是在认真权衡要不要休学一年。

It was just weighing the pros and cons of taking a year off from school.

我觉得估算一下能赚多少钱，是个挺相关的参考因素。

It seemed like a relevant factor to try to quantify how much money I thought I would make.

你确实休了学，也赚到了钱，之后又回学校把学业完成了。

And then you did take the time off, you did make and the you went back to school and finished.

是这样吗？

Is that right?

是啊，我只剩一年就毕业了，索性趁还没变成校园里那个怪老头儿之前把这事办了。

Yeah, I only had one year left and I figured I may as well get it done before I'm the weird old guy on campus.

我注意到你以前是下国际象棋和玩魔术出身的。

And one of the things I've seen is that you came from a background in chess and magic as well.

我们聊过的很多人，都有类似的经历。

This is something that comes up an awful lot with people that we talk to.

我是说，我们请了来自在线团队的Jen来电台节目做客。

I mean, we had Jen from Team Online on the radio show.

我们也请过Jonathan Little。

We've had Jonathan Little on.

很明显，她是从国际象棋背景来的，他也是从魔术背景来的。

They obviously she came from chess, he came from magic as well.

你觉得从这些其他游戏转过来，是什么让这些人能够去打职业扑克的？

What do you think sets people up to be able to play professional poker coming from those other games?

我觉得这在某种程度上确实有点巧合，因为那些性格和兴趣适合成为职业扑克选手、并且能在这一行取得成功的人，年轻时往往就会自然而然地被这类活动吸引。

To some extent I think it's partly just coincidental in the sense that the people with the personality types and interests to want to be a professional poker player and to succeed as a professional poker player are likely to have gravitated to those sorts of things when they were younger.

除此之外，我

But in addition to that, I

觉得

do

我从下棋和玩万智牌的经历中，学到了很多关于如何研究一款游戏以及如何精通它的知识。

think I learned a lot about how to study a game and how to become proficient in the game from my experiences in chess and magic.

我觉得那些有类似背景的人也大多如此。

And I think that's pretty common with other people who've come from those backgrounds.

玩扑克的人里，很多人是通过电视看到的，这才开始接触这项运动。

With poker, a lot of people, they see it on TV and that's how they get introduced to it.

对这类人来说，你建议他们怎么才能真正掌握这个游戏？

For folks like that, what do you recommend for them becoming proficient in the game?

你觉得理想的入门或学习路径应该是怎样的？

What would you see as kind of the ideal learning path or study path?

我觉得每个人的情况差别挺大的。

I think it varies a lot from one person to the next.

有些人天生靠直觉学习，就是边玩边学。

Some people are much more intuitive learners and just learn by doing.

对这类人来说，尤其是在初期，进步最大的方式就是多打，同时仔细观察自己的每一步，对手的举动，哪些策略有效、哪些没用。

And I think that for those people, very likely, at least early on, most of the improvement is to be made just by playing and paying close attention to what you're doing and what your opponents are doing and what seems to be working and what doesn't.

另一些人——我就属于这一类——更偏向系统化、学术型的学习方式。

Other people, and this is the category I fall into, are more, systematic academic sort of learners.

对他们来说，找到好的教学资源很重要，不管是书籍、视频，还是一对一的指导。

And for them, I think that finding good instructional material is important, whether that's books or videos or one on one coaching.

如果你是这种学习类型的人，尽早就要学会系统性地自我学习。

And then if you're that sort of learner relatively early on, you're also going to want to learn how to teach yourself in a systematic fashion.

你需要学会分析自己的对局记录，利用各种软件工具来自主钻研。

You're gonna wanna learn how to study your hand histories and use the various available software tools and stuff like that to study on your own.

那你觉得一对一指导对飞行员来说有多重要？

And how important do you think that one on one coaching is for pilots?

这种指导真的能缩短学习时间吗？

Is that something that you feel really would cut down the learning time?

还是说先读几本书，打好基础，再找人做指导比较好？

Or would you say read a few books first, get yourself get a background knowledge and then start with some coaching with somebody?

我觉得很有帮助。

I think it can be very useful.

在我职业生涯的某些阶段，它确实对我帮助很大。

At points in my career, it's been very useful to me.

特别是我从限注德州扑克转向无限制德州扑克的时候。

Specifically when I was transitioning from no limit hold'em or from limit hold'em to no limit hold'em.

我当时请了一位教练，对我帮助特别大。

I had a coach who was extremely helpful to me.

但我认为，在深入之前，先打点基础会更有帮助。

But I do think it's probably worthwhile to get a bit of a foundation before you move into that.

你得学会独立思考教练给你的建议，因为糟糕的教练和优秀的教练一样多。

You do want to be able to think critically about what your coach is telling you because there are at least as many terrible coaches out there as good ones.

如果你没准备好去批判性地评估所学的内容，很可能就会接受一些没用甚至误导性的观点。

So if you're not prepared to critically evaluate the instruction you're getting, you're likely to get that instruction and learn unhelpful ideas.

至于升级牌局，比如现在玩中等注额、想冲高注额的玩家，你有什么建议？

And then for the moving up, so perhaps for someone who's playing mid stakes currently, who wants to reach the high stakes, what sort of advice would you have for those players?

我觉得这类玩家最能从一对一指导中获益。

Those are the players, I think, who are probably best positioned to benefit from one on one coaching.

如果你能找到那些已经在你目标级别打得很好的人，他们很可能掌握着你还不懂的关键技巧。

If you can find somebody who is excelling at the level that you want to reach, it's very likely that they can teach you some things you don't already know.

当然了，说到最高水平的教练，收费肯定高得离谱，对吧？

And obviously, you know, when we're talking about coaching at those highest levels, they're going to be pretty extortionate prices, aren't they?

我听说一小时教练费要一千五百美元以上。

Mean, I've heard of $1,500 plus an hour for coaching.

如果你正从中级水平往上冲，你会建议别人说，这钱花得值吗？

Is that something you would say to people if you are moving up from mid stakes, that's probably good value?

你还是得仔细想想，你找的教练到底能给你带来什么真正的帮助。

Again, you need to think critically about who you're working with and what they're actually providing you.

但如果你算算自己打牌的量、当前的级别，以及赢率哪怕微小提升能带来多少收益，就会明白——作为职业高注额玩家，为了提升一点点，花多少钱都值得。

But if you think about the amount of poker you're playing and the stakes you're playing it at and how much a very small improvement in your win rate is worth, it becomes clear that you can justify almost any expense to get a little bit better at poker if you're a professional high stakes player.

埃利奥特，看来我们得涨涨价了。

Well, Elliot, it sounds like we need to raise our rates

因为很可能

because probably

太便宜了。

too cheap.

心理素质训练，我觉得对很多玩家来说，还是一个被严重忽视的方面。

Mental game coaching is kind of one of the most untapped elements I think for many players.

大家都懂，找技术教练、学策略、看书、看视频，但没几个人会想到去请一位心理教练。

Everybody knows, get a technical coach or strategy coach, read the books, get the videos, but not everybody knows or thinks about getting a mental game coach.

确实如此。

That's true.

你之前提到，你职业生涯中一直挺能控制情绪波动的。

And you mentioned earlier that you felt that you dealt with tilt pretty well throughout your career.

你觉得这是天生的性格使然，还是靠冥想才慢慢调整到这种状态的？

Do you think that was a natural personality trait or is it something that you needed the meditation to get yourself into that state?

我也就是最近五年才开始冥想的，但早在那之前，我就很少有情绪失控的问题。

I've only been meditating for the past five years or so, and I never had much of a tilt problem even before that.

我最初接触冥想，主要是为了应对抑郁、缺乏动力、焦虑这些事，而这些情绪在真正打牌的时候，基本都会消失。

Really what got me interested in meditation in the first place had more to do with dealing with depression and motivation issues and anxiety and stuff like that, rather than all of which tended to go away as soon as I was actually playing poker.

它们更多是影响我生活中的其他方面。

It tended to impact other parts of my life more.

那这些也会影响你的游戏量吗？

And would they impact volume as well?

因为很明显，很多人跟我提到过，他们因为心态问题，根本没法打开桌子、进不了大厅。

Because obviously the motivational issues, depression issues, these are things that people talk to me about quite a lot and saying their mindset is really stopping them being able to open the tables, open the lobbies.

你以前也这样吗？

Is that something that was happening with you?

是的，偶尔确实会这样。

Yeah, on occasion it did for sure.

所以在这方面，冥想确实对我的扑克心理有帮助。

So yeah, in that respect it has helped my mental game with poker.

至于情绪波动，我从来就没怎么为此困扰过。

Tilt specifically is just not really a thing I've ever struggled that much with.

我整个人在生活各方面都比较情绪平稳。

I tend to be a bit emotionally flat in all aspects of my life.

我对事情的反应一向很淡，尤其是扑克里的输赢。

I just don't react very much to things and especially not to results in poker.

那你找到合适的工作了。

You found the right job then.

但人们不应该低估抑郁和焦虑的普遍程度。

You know, but people shouldn't underestimate the rates of depression and anxiety.

如果看 poker 之外的世界，抑郁简直就像心理健康领域的普通感冒，全球至少五分之一的人都会经历抑郁或焦虑。

If we look outside of poker, depression is basically the common cold of the mental health world because it's at least one out of five people worldwide suffers from depression and anxiety.

虽然比例稍低一些，但依然非常严重。

So a little bit lower rates but still very significant.

无论你从事什么职业，它都可能影响到你。

And it can impact you no matter what your profession.

但在扑克圈里特别难，因为这是一项极其孤独的游戏，而且低谷期又多又长。

But it is really hard I think in the poker world because, you know, it's such a solitary type of game and, you know, it has its downswings and just so much of that.

那你生活中除了扑克之外，还有没有其他平衡的东西，能帮你缓冲这些低谷？

And have you got a lot of life balance outside of poker so that these downswings don't affect you?

还是说，你根本就不太受这些影响，就是能坦然面对？

Or is it just that it genuinely just doesn't affect you and you just deal with it?

我不觉得生活平衡是我的强项。

I would not say life balance is one of my strengths.

我大部分时间都花在扑克上。

I spend a lot of my life on poker.

除了和妻子、家人以及几个密友的关系外，我其他方面没什么太多安排，但我对此挺坦然的。

And apart from my relationships with my wife and my family and my close friends, I don't have all that much else going on, which I'm pretty okay with.

我非常喜欢扑克，觉得它特别让人全身心投入。

I enjoy poker very much and find it a very consuming pursuit.

所以现在这个阶段，我对有点失衡的状态已经挺接受了。

So at this point in my life, I'm pretty okay with being a little unbalanced.

我觉得只要不影响到你的牌技就行。

Well, I think so long as it's not coming into your game.

通常人们出问题，是因为扑克占满了生活，一发到烂牌、输了一局，就陷入抑郁。

So usually where the people have the issue is if poker consumes them and then getting a bad hand, having a bad session, then throws them into a depression.

他们需要生活中的其他事情来中和这种影响。

They need the life balance to balance that out.

如果你打牌时心态很稳，能扛得住糟糕的几周，那生活平衡对你在牌桌上的成功就没那么重要了。

If you're absolutely balanced with your poker and you can deal with those bad weeks, then obviously the life balance isn't quite so important for your success at the table.

是的，我自己的经历也证明了这一点。

Yeah, I've found that to be fairly true in my life.

遇到状态特别差的日子，比如早上起来心情不好，或者感觉整个人不在状态，但这时候你发现桌上有特别好的对局，你会硬着头皮上，还是等状态好一点再坐下去？

And on those sort of down days when if you do wake up in a bad mood or you're just feeling a little bit off and then you notice that there's someone at a table you should really be playing, will you play them anyway, or will you hold off if you don't feel your mind's quite right before taking that seat?

这其实不是非黑即白的事。

You know, it's not really a binary thing.

如果我早上起来状态只有三成，但桌上有特别好的局，我还是会打。

If I wake up feeling, you know, maybe about a three out of 10 and there are very good games, I'll play anyway.

如果我状态特别差，那可能就不打了。

If I wake up and I'm really feeling terrible, then maybe I won't.

但牌局的质量和我的心情，都不是非好即坏的二元状态。

But, obviously, neither the quality of the games nor the quality of my mood is a binary thing.

就算我状态不太好，但如果这是今年在网上遇到的最好的一桌，我大概还是会坐下去。

If it's the best game I've seen online all year, but I'm feeling quite bad, I'll probably play.

如果牌局只是稍微好于平均水平，而我状态又比平时差一点，我可能会选择休息一天。

If it's a slightly above average game and I'm feeling a bit worse than usual, I might take the day off.

不过我觉得，你给人的感觉至少是个意志坚定的人。我见过你几次在牌桌上的情形，明明筹码落后了，但你却特别专注地思考怎么翻盘，然后真的能做出一些不可思议的举动来逆转局势。

I think though, you come across at least as a guy who has an iron will, Just in some situations where I've seen you at the table, it's almost like maybe you're behind in chips, but it's almost like you really just think really hard about how can I turn this situation around and then you'll do like amazing things to pull it out?

我觉得，关键在于不被逆境压垮——或者换个说法，只要你每次轮到你行动时，都只专注于做出最好的决策，那么你是领先还是落后，根本就不会影响你的判断。

Well, I think in terms of not getting overwhelmed by adversity or whatever the alternative to what you're describing would be is if you're just focused on making the best play that you can each time that it's your turn, then whether you're ahead or behind just doesn't really enter into the equation.

当你唯一关心的就是把每一步都下到最好时，哪怕胜算很小，也不会觉得更难打。

It's not any harder to play well when your chances of winning are small if the only thing you're concerned with is playing as well as you can.

这番话真是非常有道理。

That's some very sound advice there.

那你今年对牌局有什么打算？

And and how do you see this year going for you in the games?

你是打算更多地打无限制德州，还是转向PLO，或者像你之前说的那样，多玩一些混合牌局？

Do you see yourself pulling more out of No Limit, going more into PLO or the mixed games like you were describing, or perhaps having one of those really

或者玩一些特别冷门的变种？

strange variants?

去年我就玩PLO远多于无限制德州，今年我预计还会继续这样。

Even last year, I played much, much more PLO than No Limit, and I expect that to continue this year.

我正在努力冲 Supernova Elite 等级，这需要我打大量的牌局。

And I'm trying to make Supernova Elite, so that requires a lot of volume from me.

不过我现在开始玩一些六人桌单挑赛，这让我更容易达成目标。

But I have started playing some six max sit and goes, which is making that easier to accomplish.

到目前为止，我今年在 Supernova Elite 的进度已经远远领先于预期。

I'm actually well ahead of pace on Supernova Elite so far for this year.

如果我能保持这个节奏，到年底或许就有足够的时间去尝试混合牌种，比如三张抽牌之类的。

So if I can maintain that pace, I might find myself with enough time to start trying to get into the mixed games or some triple draw or something like that later in the year.

今年你会在世界扑克系列赛上看到你吗？

Will we see you out at the World Series this year?

会的。

Yeah.

会的。

Yeah.

去年我大部分时间都没打，结果后来挺后悔的。

Last year, I skipped most of it and pretty much ended up regretting the decision.

那时候线上扑克比赛根本没多少可打的。

There was not that much online poker to be played.

那个月我打得特别没成效。

And I had a pretty unproductive month.

所以今年我打算去拉斯维加斯，可能更多玩现金桌，少打锦标赛。

So I think I'm going go to Vegas this year and I might play more cash games than tournaments.

你会继续专注PLO和无限注吗？

Would you stick to the PLO and the No Limit?

还是会试试中国开面、或者其他混合游戏？

Or will you be trying your hand at things like Chinese open face and some of the other mixed games?

我打算

I plan

如果其他游戏有机会，我会保持开放心态去玩一玩。

to keep an open mind about playing some of the other games if there seem to be good opportunities there.

这确实很有道理，对吧？

It certainly certainly makes sense, doesn't it?

保持灵活性总是好的。

Keeping your options open.

非常感谢你今天来和我们聊心态、职业生涯这些话题。

Well, you so much for coming on and talking to us today about mindset and your career and things.

你是PokerStars在线战队的成员，对吧？

You're a member of Team PokerStars online, aren't you?

大家可以通过那个网站了解你。

So people can find out about you on that website.

除了那里，还有没有其他地方可以让大家进一步了解你？

Is there anywhere else that people can find out about you if they want to find out some more?

你可以关注我的推特，账号是IkePoker。

You can check out my Twitter, which is IkePoker.

I K E P O K E R。

I K E P O K E R.

我没有个人网站之类的东西。

I don't have like a personal website or anything like that.

大家都去关注一下 IkePoker 的推特吧。

Everyone go and follow IkePoker on Twitter.

再次感谢你来做客，我们世界扑克系列赛上见。

And as it once again, thank you so much for coming on and we'll we'll see you at the World Series of Poker.

不客气。

My pleasure.

到时候见。

See you there.

非常感谢。

Thanks a lot

谢谢，Ike。

for Thanks, that, Ike.

再见。

Cheers.

再见。

Bye.

再见。

Bye.

再见啦。

Bye bye.

特里莎，大家怎么才能了解你呢？

So Tricia, where can people find out about you?

你可以在Twitter上关注我，账号是DrTrishaCartner，也可以去Red Chip Poker看看，或者访问我的网站www.drtrichacartner.com。

You can always follow me on Twitter DrTrishaCartner or you can check me out on Red Chip Poker or www.drtrichacartner.com.

如果大家对我的辅导或产品感兴趣，可以访问www.pokermindcoach.com找到我。

And if people are interested in my coaching or my products, you can find me on www.pokermindcoach.com.

我们期待下周再和你们交流。

We look forward to talking to you next week.

谢谢大家。

Thanks guys.