011 Brian Rast - The Mindset Advantage Podcast

欢迎收听《心态优势》播客第11期，嘉宾是特里西亚·卡德纳和埃利奥特·罗。

Welcome to episode 11 of the mindset advantage podcast with Doctor.

特里西亚·卡德纳和埃利奥特·罗。

Tricia Cardner and Elliot Roe.

特里西亚，跟我们聊聊你自己吧。

So Tricia, tell us about yourself.

大家好，我是特里西亚。

Hey everyone, it's Doctor.

我是《积极扑克》的作者，和乔纳森·利特尔合著的，我一直在尽力帮助人们提升心理素质。

Tricia Cardner and I'm the author of Positive Poker along with Jonathan Little And I do everything I can to help people improve their mental game.

我的名字是埃利奥特·罗。

And my name is Elliot Rowe.

我是一名催眠治疗师，主要辅导扑克玩家和UFC选手。

I'm a hypnotherapist and I work with poker players and UFC fighters.

特里西亚，这周有什么新消息要跟大家分享吗？

So Tricia, what news do you have for us this week?

埃利奥特，我想换个方式说，因为世界系列赛就快到了，我想给你和那些即将参赛的玩家一些实用建议，帮你们提前做好准备。

Well, I wanted to do something just slightly different Elliott because we're just a few weeks out from the World Series and I'm trying to give you know tips so people and players who are going out can, you know prepare themselves.

所以我打算花几分钟聊聊，怎么给自己列一份心理准备清单，这是我让客户都去做的。

So I just wanted to talk for a couple minutes about players building themselves a mental game checklist and this is something that I have my clients do.

简单来说，就是列出一些关键事项。

And basically you want to come up with a list of things.

比如你的呼吸状态、自我对话、视觉化练习、目标设定——这些都属于心理技巧的范畴。

So it would be like you know how's your breathing, your self talk, visualization, goal setting, know all those sorts of kind of mental game tactics.

然后你给自己在每项上打个分，从1到10分，看看自己掌握得怎么样。

And then what you want to do is you want to rate yourself on a scale of one to 10 on how well are you doing with that particular skill.

1分代表完全没做好，10分就是已经炉火纯青了。

So one would be, you know, I'm really not doing well and 10 is I've completely mastered it.

接着看这份清单，挑出一两个最需要改进的方面，接下来21天专门去打磨它们。

And then look at that list and pick one or two areas that need work and for the next twenty one days work on that.

比如说你选了冥想，那就承诺接下来21天，每天至少冥想五分钟，雷打不动，这样你选中的那两三个方面，一定能有明显提升。

So if you picked say meditation, so then commit for the next twenty one days you're going to meditate at least five minutes a day each and every day and that's really going to get you some good improvement in those one or two areas you chose to work on.

现在离大赛还有不少时间，大家完全来得及做好准备。

And there's still certainly plenty of time isn't there for people to get ready especially for the main event.

日常生活中这些小小的调整，到了上桌的时候真能派上大用场。

These small changes in your daily routine could really make a difference when it's time to go and sit down there at the table.

没错，现在就行动起来吧。

Absolutely, so get on it now.

你不可能一下子改掉一百个习惯，但改掉一两个，提升一两个，完全做得到。

Know you can't change a 100 things but you can certainly change and improve one or two things.

确实，这建议太棒了。

Definitely, really good advice there.

今天节目里我们请到了知名扑克选手布莱恩·拉斯。

Today on the show we've got Brian Rast, a very well known poker player coming on.

他会跟我们聊聊心态在他的牌技和职业生涯中有多重要。

He's going to talk to us about the importance of mindset in his game and his career.

那我们现在就给他打电话。

So we'll give him a call now.

嗨，Brian。

Hi Brian.

谢谢你来参加节目。

Thanks for coming on the show.

能跟我们的听众简单介绍一下你自己吗？

If you could introduce yourself to our listeners.

是的，谢谢Elliot和Tricia。

Yeah, thank you Elliot and Tricia.

我是Brian Rast。

I am Brian Rast.

我玩扑克已经十一年了。

I have been playing poker for about eleven years.

我当初辍学就是为专心打牌，之后几乎就一直干这一行。

I stopped going to school in order to do it and it's pretty much been all I've done since then.

我打过很多现金局，最近几年也断断续续参加一些锦标赛，程度不一。我主要玩的是德扑和奥马哈，不过现在我对几乎所有扑克变种都有不少经验，但说实话，前面那两种还是我最拿手的。

I've played a lot of cash games and more recently I've done tournaments off and on to varying degrees, and my main games are Nola Hold'em and Potlum and Omaha, but at this point I have quite a bit of experience in almost all the poker games, although I still think the first two I mentioned are my best.

所以，这就是我的大致情况。

So that's kinda me in a nutshell.

你在扑克圈里待了这么多年，肯定见过不少人来了又走。

So you've been around the poker scene for a really long time, and I bet you've seen a lot of people come and go through those years.

在你看来，是什么让人从优秀变成顶尖，真正能在圈子里长久立足？

What what in your opinion makes somebody go from good to great and to really be able to stick around in the game?

其实，这两个问题的答案是不一样的。

So I actually think there are two different answers to those questions.

它们是分开的。

It's separate.

从优秀到顶尖，关键在于天赋。

The thing that makes someone go from good to great is, you know, mostly at that point a question of talent.

我觉得，只要肯下功夫研究，再加上脑子够用，很多人其实都能达到不错的水平。

You know, I think with enough studying and being reasonably intelligent person, like a lot of different people can get good at poker.

但真正顶尖的人，往往具备一种独特的综合能力：既有逻辑分析的敏锐，又能凭直觉感知对手的情绪和心理状态，在心理博弈中占得上风。

But there's sort of like a synergistic mix of skills between your logical reading abilities, your intuitive ability to maybe emotionally understand where people are during a poker session, how they're doing psychologically to kind of win that psychological warfare game.

不管是什么，只要把这些能力结合起来，或者某一方面特别突出，就能让人从普通玩家蜕变成顶尖高手。

Whatever it is, a mix of those or being really good at anyone in particular that can kind of take someone from the level from being a good poker player to a great one.

我觉得这主要还是天赋问题，要达到这个层次，需要几种不同的天赋，或者它们的某种组合。

I think that's mostly a talent question and there's a couple different talents or mix of talents that you can have in order to make that happen.

但什么样的人能长期坚持下来呢？

But what makes somebody last?

我的意思是，天赋当然有帮助。

You know, I mean talent helps.

水平越高，赚钱的机会自然也越多。

The better you are, the more likely you are to earn.

但我认为，能在扑克圈长久立足的最关键因素，其实是自律。

But I actually think the number one thing in lasting in the poker world is probably self control.

就是能控制自己不超出承受范围下注，清楚自己该打什么级别的牌局，能判断某个牌局是否有利可图，知道什么时候该收手——比如状态不好、累了，或者发挥失常的时候，总之要学会管理资金和管理自己。

It's basically the ability to not gamble for more than you should risk, know what size games you're playing, be able to evaluate whether or not you're plus EV ing a certain game, know when to quit when maybe you're not or you're tired or you're not playing your best, and basically just manage your money and manage yourself.

即使你不是顶尖玩家，只要特别擅长管理自己和资金，照样能打得很长久，过得不错。

You can be not a great poker player, but you could have a career and do fine just because you're very good at managing yourself and your money.

你觉得更多玩家退出，是因为在牌桌上赌得太狠，还是因为其他诱惑，比如去赌体育赛事、玩竞猜游戏之类的，这些才把更多职业玩家拉下水？

And do you think more players fall out because of gambling too excessively on the poker table, or do you think it's those other temptations, the the leading into sports betting, the pick games, things like that, take more of the professional players out?

显然是后者。

Obviously, of them.

不过现在我更多打现场牌局，觉得对现场玩家而言，确实是这些其他诱惑影响更大。

But definitely, now that I'm more of a live player, I think for live players, it's definitely more the second one, the other Temptations.

因为打现场牌，你总得待在赌场里，方方面面都绕不开。

Because a live player, you have to be around casinos and all that.

而且有时候，你手上空闲的时间特别多。

And sometimes, you're always given time.

打现场牌的时候，偶尔会有点无聊。

When you're playing live, sometimes it can be a little bit more boring.

于是大家就开始赌体育比赛了。

People start betting sports.

进出赌场的时候，总会有冲动想再赌一把。

Just walking in and out of a casino, there's always a temptation to gamble.

或者像拉斯维加斯这样的地方，到处都是别的诱惑，比如喝酒什么的。

Or just being in a lot of places like Las Vegas, there's other things, drinking and whatnot.

我觉得对现场玩家而言，确实是后者更主要。

I think for live players, it's definitely more the second one.

对线上玩家来说，可能前者的影响更大一些。

For internet players, I think it's probably a little bit more the first one.

线上玩家经常很容易就能接触到远超自己能力范围的大牌局。

Internet players, it's more of a situation where there's always very easy access to games that are bigger than what you should play.

一旦输钱了，马上就想着翻本，继续玩下去。

So if you're down one, you're already getting even.

相比之下，赌体育可能没那么容易。

Whereas it's a little bit harder to bet sports maybe.

你得先往另一个网站充钱，然后才能下注，流程麻烦多了。

You actually have to load money up on a different website, whatever, and gamble on there a lot of times.

所以我觉得，线上玩家更容易陷在不该玩的牌局里，而现场玩家则更容易被其他诱惑拖下水。

So I think for online players, it's probably more keep playing games you shouldn't, whereas for live players, it's the other temptations.

我做过一些研究，专门调查了那些非常成功的扑克玩家和多桌锦标赛选手，他们最常提到的一点就是资金管理，这其实让很多人感到意外。而你现在说的，也正是这个意思，把它看作是自我控制的一部分。

I did some research with poker players and MTT players in particular who had been very successful, and the number one thing they talked about was bankroll management, which I think surprises a lot of people, and now here you're kind of saying the same thing, you know, as part of the self control.

没错。

Yes.

资金管理、个人管理、情绪控制，这些都属于自我控制的范畴，我觉得是这样。

Bankroll management, personal management, tilt control, just like this idea of self control, I think.

我完全同意。

I agree 100%.

说实话，我一直觉得自己在这方面的做法比大多数人都早一步。

I mean, I've actually feel like I've always been a little bit ahead of the curve with that.

从打扑克一开始，我就明白这个道理，哪怕年纪还小的时候就懂了。

Like it's something just my approach from poker, I sort of understood that even when I was younger.

某种程度上，我把这套方法很好地应用到了生活中。

And in a certain sense, I think I molded it pretty well to my life.

我从来没输光过钱，但年轻单身、没什么负担的时候，我也确实敢冒更大的风险。

I've never went broke, but when I was younger and I was single and I didn't really have any responsibilities, I did take more risk.

但反过来，情况也没那么糟。

But the flip side was there wasn't really that bad.

我有过好几次，一段时间内输掉了超过一半的本金。

I had more than one occasion where over some period of time, I lost over half my bankroll.

但到了某个时候，我就转去玩更小的牌局，这样输光的风险就大大降低了。

But at some point, I would just play smaller games where my risk of ruin would go way, way, way down.

不仅如此，对手还更弱，通常我都能赢回来，慢慢把本金再攒回去。

And not only that, the competition was softer and generally, I would win and be able to build back up.

那时候我并不处于走投无路的状态，跟几年前不一样。

From a situation though where I wasn't desperate, you know, like my years ago.

但我一直保持着十万现金的缓冲资金，足够应付当时在拉斯维加斯或洛杉矶打的五到十、十到二十的现场牌局，还有些线上小局，那些牌局都挺松的。

But my cushion was always a 100,000 liquid bankroll, which is plenty to play the live five ten or ten twenty games back at the time in Las Vegas or LA, which were very soft and some smaller games online.

你提到了情绪控制。

You mentioned tilt control.

你有没有专门做过什么来提升自己在牌桌上的情绪控制？

Is there anything you've done specifically to improve your tilt control in the game?

我并没有刻意做过什么长期的调整。

There hasn't been any long term focused thing that I've done.

我确实想过这个问题。

I've thought about it.

我也看过不少相关的资料。

I've read various things about it.

在不同阶段我都尝试过一些方法。

I have from various times.

我做过一些冥想。

I've done some meditation.

但我觉得真正起作用的，是我对自己状态的觉察力很强。

But I'd say the biggest thing that's really happened with it is I feel like I'm a pretty aware person of what's going on with me.

尤其是我刚玩扑克的时候，容易失控。

And I think tilting was something, especially when I started playing.

扑克和我过去对生活、对自己的认知方式完全不同。

Poker is very different than how I had experienced life and evaluating myself.

我觉得在打扑克之前，比如上学的时候，大多数时候你都能顺利成功。

I think with most things prior to poker, like when I was in school, for the most part, you just get successes.

我上学的经历一直都很顺利，成绩非常好。

I had a long history of going to school and doing very, very well.

即使在大学里遇到困难，我也很清楚，主要原因是我自己没怎么用心。

And even in university, when I struggled, I knew in a very large part it was just because I wasn't really putting in the effort.

我不再在乎了，成绩自然也就下滑了。

I didn't care anymore and my grades weren't very good.

但在扑克桌上，我非常在意输赢，可还是经常在离开赌场、关掉在线平台时发现输钱了。

But in poker, I cared very much about my results, but yet there were plenty of times when I'd walk away from the casino where I'd log off the online site and I lost.

所以一开始这让我特别沮丧，因为我从来没怎么习惯面对失败。

And so, it was very frustrating at first for me because I wasn't that used to dealing with failure.

说实话，经过很长一段时间，我慢慢学会了如何应对这种挫败感，虽然一开始我根本没准备好。

I mean, I feel like I, over a long period of time, was able to slowly learn how to cope with that personally if from the outset I wasn't necessarily ready.

我记得自己当时用来应对失败的一些方式。

I remember some of the ways I dealt with failure.

我记得刚退学那会儿，有时候从赌场开车回家，一路上自己跟自己说话，到家后就在公寓里来回踱步，不是冲谁吼，就是特别沮丧，因为输了一大笔钱，简直不敢相信这事居然发生了，诸如此类的。

I remember when I first dropped out of college, there were some times I would drive home from the casino literally talking to myself and get home and be pacing my apartment, not yelling at nobody or just upset because I had lost this money and I couldn't believe that this had happened and blah, blah, blah.

现在回想起来，我根本不会再做任何类似的事了。

And I kind of think back now and it's like I would never even do anything remotely near to that.

所以，我内心的处理方式，跟以前完全不同了。

So the process internally, it's way different than it used to be.

顺便问一下，你觉得这是不是因为你从看短期博弈转向了长期视角？

And out of interest, do you think that's turning it from seeing it as a short term game to a long term game?

也就是说，你不再执着于赢下一手牌或一局，而是开始关注长远结果？还是说你找到了别的方法来应对这种波动？

So rather than trying to win over a hand or a session, you're now looking at the long term, or is it something else you think you've created there to help you through that variance?

我确实觉得这是其中一部分原因。

I definitely think that's part of it.

我觉得另一部分是意识到，这种事情总会发生，扑克本来就是一场长期的游戏。

I think part of it is realizing that these things happen and it is a long term game.

还有一点，就是学会接受失败。

I think another part of it is learning just to accept failure.

失败其实是扑克乃至生活中许多事情成功的一部分。

That failure is part of success in poker or indeed many things in life.

这些事总会发生，真正衡量成败的，甚至更重要的是，如何不让失败影响你的心态。

That these things will happen and really kind of the measure and even more than that, the way to really achieve success is to not let these failures deter you and not let them change your state of mind.

真正让情况变糟的，是你因为这些事改变行为，情绪失控，打得更差，做出错误决定。

So that despite that these things are happening, the way that really exacerbates them is you changing your behavior, tilting, playing worse, making bad decisions.

真正让这些事变得糟糕的，就是这个。

That's kind of what makes these things bad.

本身来说，这些只是我在玩一个赌博游戏时必然会出现的事件，坏结果总会发生。

In and of themselves, they're just events where I'm playing a game where I'm gambling and bad events are going to happen.

这本来就是游戏的一部分。

It's just part of the game.

我接触过很多策略上还不成熟的玩家，他们一输就容易崩溃，根本受不了失败。

You know, I deal with a lot of players who are not as well developed strategically, and they really tilt hard and don't deal with failure well.

你对这样的玩家有什么建议吗？

What kind of advice could you give to a player like that?

我觉得我之前说过，这需要一种自我觉察。

I think I said this, there's a sense of self awareness.

所以当你感觉到这些情绪开始冒头时，立刻意识到它们很重要。

So I think it's important once you feel these feelings coming on that you're immediately aware of them.

我觉得这是第一步。

I think that's the first step.

接下来就是，好吧，那你打算怎么应对？

The next step would be, Okay, so what are you going to do about them?

不管怎样，如果你需要离开桌子，错过几手牌，只是为了跟自己说说话、冷静下来、调整心态，或者因为发生的事实在太糟而选择退出，那也没关系。

Whatever it is, I mean, if you need to walk away from the table and miss a couple hands in order to, I don't know, talk to yourself, calm yourself down, change your state of mind, if you need to quit because whatever's happened is so bad.

我觉得一旦你意识到这些情绪，并开始采取行动，接下来当然还有一些远离牌桌的应对方法——说实话，我自己没怎么做过这些。

I think that once you're aware of them and then you start taking steps, and then obviously there's things you could probably do that are away from the table that I'm going to be honest, I haven't really done a lot of that.

我整个职业生涯里，一直是个硬扛的人。

Throughout my career, was kind of a fighter.

我一路挺过了很多这样的情况。

I fought through a lot of this stuff.

我以前并不总是选择离开牌桌。

I didn't always walk away from the table.

我自我控制能力还算不错，但年轻时确实有过失控的时候。

I had relatively good self control, though there were definitely times when I was younger.

直到现在，我偶尔还是会情绪失控。

And even to this day that I can tilt.

说实话，现在我的情绪波动和年轻时已经不太一样了。

I mean, I'd say nowadays, I find my tilt to be a little bit different than when I was younger.

那时候有各种各样的表现方式。

There were a lot of different ways.

当然，最常见的就是输钱后的情绪崩溃，或者手气特别差的时候。

Obviously, there's loser's tilt or when things are going bad.

但年轻时，我有时也会在顺风顺水的时候失控，我管这叫‘顺风病’。

But when I was younger, I also used to have winter's tilt sometimes, like things were going really well.

那时候我会觉得自己无所不能，牌桌上总想做点出格的事，后来才明白，那不过是被胜利冲昏了头脑，高估了自己能掌控的局面。

And I used to get, I think, an inflamed ego and think I could do too much at the table during hands, maybe trying to do something that I realized later was just kind of me getting carried away with sort of what I could do or get away with or whatever the case may be.

所以我觉得第一步是要意识到这一点。

So I think the first step is to be aware of it.

然后一旦你发现自己正在这样，或者察觉到那种情绪，就要试着在当下抓住它并改变，但这真的很难。

And then once you know that you're doing it or you're aware of that feeling, trying to capture it in the moment and change it, which that's very difficult.

所以我也不太清楚该怎么做到。

So I don't really know how to do that.

而且

And

你举办的那些世界扑克系列赛的研讨会，其实是一种更全面的扑克训练方式，对吧？

you've got the seminars that you're running at the World Series of Poker, which is sort of a more of a holistic approach, aren't they, to poker?

你能谈谈这个吗？跟其他一些培训机构相比，你的做法有什么不同？

Can you talk a bit about that and explain what you're doing differently to perhaps some of the other training groups out there?

我倒想问问你们。

Well, can I ask you guys?

因为这其实是你们的专业领域。

Because this actually would be your area of expertise.

因为回答这个问题的时候，我感觉自己有点懵。

Because I felt a little lost answering that question.

我的意思是，你对玩家有什么建议？

I mean, what do you recommend for players?

其实我很想先听听你们的看法，咱们先把这个问题放一放，回头再说。

Because I'd love to hear before, you know, let's remember this question and forget it.

嗯。

Well

要说的实在太多了，但我认为最有效的方法之一，就是养成冥想的习惯——有些人也叫正念或者正念冥想。我相信埃利奥特一定会认同这一点。

I mean there's so many things, but I think one of the most efficacious things that people can do to raise their self awareness and decrease stress and all that sort of thing is to develop a meditation habit or sometimes it's called mindfulness or mindfulness meditation and I know Elliot probably is going to agree with that.

对，尤其是在催眠疗法这方面。

Yeah, obviously with the hypnotherapy side.

正念真的特别有用，能帮你清空思绪，更好地应对牌局中的波动和起伏。

The mindfulness is really really useful in terms of clearing your mind, being able to cope with those that variance and the swings.

如果是一些特别具体的问题，比如一个人反复出现同样的情绪——严重的焦虑、强烈的愤怒，或者赌博成瘾，那我建议还是走心理咨询的路子。

I think if it's very specific issues, so someone's getting the same emotion coming up time and time again, serious anxiety, serious levels of anger, a gambling problem, then I would say more the therapy route.

我们为个人客户做的工作，就是帮他们梳理这些问题，理解情绪的根源，这样在牌桌上就不会再对同样的事情产生强烈的反应。

So the sort of work that we do with individual clients, working through those issues, understanding where they're coming from so that you're not having that emotional response to the same level at the table.

另外就是一些基本的职业素养。

The other things are just the general professionalism.

比如打牌前吃好饭，保持规律的锻炼，制定好资金管理规则，还有控制每局的时长。

So making sure you've eaten before you play, having a good exercise routine, having some rules in place regarding bankroll management and just length of session.

这些小事对延长你保持冷静、不爆掉的时间，能起到很大作用。

Those sort of things can make a huge difference as to how long you can last at the table without tilting.

还有一点，就是要真正搞清楚哪些事会触发你的自我破坏行为。

And the other thing is really learning what your triggers are for self sabotage.

大多数人其实根本没意识到这一点，但只要你开始留意和记录，就会慢慢发现。

And for most people they're not really aware of that, but if you start kind of tracking it.

害怕失败很常见，但反过来，害怕成功也同样普遍。

So fear of failure is common, but the other side of the coin fear of success is also very common.

听起来可能有点奇怪——我为什么会害怕成功呢？

Even though that sounds weird like why would I be afraid of success?

但俗话说得好，每升一级，就会遇到新的难题。

But you know with every new level comes a new devil the saying goes.

随着期望越来越高，压力感也会随之加大。

So it can be, you know as the expectations get greater, the perceived pressure gets greater.

有好多方面因素，但我特别欣赏你提到自我觉察最重要这一点，我完全同意。

So a lot of different things but I really love that you hit on how self awareness is the most important because I completely agree with that.

如果你连自己出了问题都不知道，又怎么可能会去寻求帮助呢？

If you're not aware, how can you even think to get help?

是的，听你们聊这个特别有意思。

Yeah, it's interesting hearing you guys talk about that.

就说我的扑克生涯吧，我总觉得自己在很多事情上不该设限。

I mean I will say in my poker career, it's almost like I've expected myself not to really have much of a limit with things.

我好几次都连续玩了四十个小时以上，而且大多数时候都是因为我赢钱才坚持下来的。

I mean, I've multiple times played forty plus hour sessions, and actually, most of those sessions are because I'm winning.

要是之前那段时间状态特别差，我早就不玩了。

Because if I was having a really bad session at some point before that, I probably would have quit.

所以是因为我在大牌局里赢了很多钱。

So it's that I'm winning a lot in a big game.

通常也有过几次输得挺惨的局。

Usually, there have been a couple times when they were bad sessions.

我的意思是，如果你想想那些局，我猜你肯定是桌上的职业玩家。

I mean, if it if you if you think of those sessions, I'm assuming that, you know, you're one of the professionals at the table.

就算你累了，桌上的业余玩家或者水平差的玩家，肯定比你更累。

Although you might be tired, it's very likely that the recreational player at the table or weaker player is far more tired than you.

你坐在那儿，优势巨大，但外面很多玩家要是也想打四十个小时，又没好身体、没做好心理准备，那四十小时绝对能把他们的资金打光。

And you're sitting there with an enormous edge and there are a lot of players out there who if they try and do that forty hour session but without being physically fit, without being mentally prepared, that forty hour session could absolutely destroy their bankroll.

对。

Yes.

我一开始就有意识地做了一些训练。

I did have a little bit of training even as for it, even starting out.

有时候打小注的牌局，或者在线对局，我也会撑到二十、二十四小时，只是没达到四十小时那么久。

Mean, were some times when I was playing small limit in the casinos or even just online sessions where I would push the twenty, twenty four hour barrier, maybe not go to forty.

但那些时候，确实帮我锻炼了应对能力。

But, you know, in some of those sessions, I don't know, helped train me to be able to deal with it.

后来我的职业生涯里，有几次在澳门打牌，对手都是水平很低的玩家，他们就是不肯走，非得把面前的钱输光，或者碰上一次大逆转才罢休。

And so, later in my career, there were some times I was in Macau in amazing games with weak players who just wouldn't quit until they basically lost what they had in front of them or had some amazing win.

他们就是想一直玩下去。

They just wanted to keep playing.

在那些局里，我感觉随着牌局推进，很多职业选手都还在，但牌桌上的人员流动却非常少。

And I actually always felt during those sessions that as it went on and a lot of the pros stayed, there'd be a very small turnover.

但有很多人，一坐就是二十、三十小时，甚至整整四十个小时。

But there were a lot of the people who were in the game for twenty, thirty, the whole forty hours, whatever it was.

正因为经历过这些，我越到后面反而越有劲。

I almost felt stronger as the game went on just because of some of that.

因为我觉得，连续打那么久的扑克，一直坐着、保持专注、扛住压力，真的特别难。

Because I think it's very hard to play poker for that long, to sit at a table and stay focused and stay tough.

这绝对是最重要的能力之一。

That's really one of the biggest things.

我发现，大概玩到十五个小时，有些人甚至更早，就会失去耐力。

I find that at some point at about fifteen hours or even sooner for some people, people lose their toughness.

像加注、硬拼这种主动打法，真的很难坚持下去。

It's very hard to do active things like three betting and playing tough.

到了某个阶段，大家都会不自觉地转成被动打法，因为那样省力。

People start playing a more passive style at some point because it's easier.

是的。

Yeah.

这可是超长的牌局啊。

I mean, that's that's incredibly long session.

在这种牌局里，如果你中途走了，会不会就再也进不去了？

And in those games, is there a risk that if you leave, you won't get another invite?

还是说，不管怎样，你都能随时回到这些牌桌？

Or are you had you always have access to those games, whatever happens?

最大的风险就是，我刚才说的那些牌局，很多都是在赌场里，根本没法保证跟你玩的那个人下次还会回来。

Well, the biggest risk is that there's just I mean, a lot of these games that I'm talking about were sort of at a casino, and there's sort of no guarantee that whoever the person you're playing with will come back again.

我记得有一场特别的牌局，有几个水平比较差的玩家，其中一个甚至把筹码堆到了二十五万美元。

And I remember one of the particular games, there were a couple weaker players and one of the weaker players had run it up to having a quarter of 1,000,000 US.

于是很多职业选手都追加了筹码，大家就这么一直玩下去。

And so a lot of the pros had added on money and everyone just kept playing.

这种局面几乎不可能再重现了。

And there's just almost no guarantee that that situation is going to happen again.

我不是在说那种私人牌局，比如洛杉矶那种，我知道过几天或者下周同一时间，同样的人还会再聚。

I'm not talking about this in the sense of this is like a private game, like the LA private games or something, where I know this game is going to happen again with kind of the same players three days from now or next week at the same time.

在那种牌局里，大家打满十二个小时就离场很常见，因为谁都清楚这局还会再开。

I think in those types of games, it's a lot more common for people to quit after playing twelve hours because everyone kind of knows the game's going to happen.

但说实话，我职业生涯里参加过的私人邀请局其实很少。

But I've actually played very few private invite games in my career.

我打的几乎全是赌场里的牌局，那种玩完就散、下次未必再有的类型。

There's almost all casino games in which it's sort of like, This is it.

说不定那个玩家明天还会回来，也可能就再也不出现了。

And maybe whoever it is is going to come back or maybe not.

但你一旦离开，就再也进不去了，因为通常都有排队名单。

But when you get up, you won't be able to get back in the game again because there's generally a list.

所以，得趁热打铁，抓住机会才行。

So, you've to strike while the iron's hot type of deal.

没错。

Exactly.

这种机会可不能轻易放弃，谁知道下次还能不能碰上。

You wouldn't want to give up that opportunity because you'd never know if it's coming back again.

你想想，那人就坐在那儿，手里攥着二十五万，要么输光走人，要么干脆一走就再也不回来了。

You know, that guy's there with his two fifty ks and you know, either he loses it and leaves or he just leaves and he never comes back

也许他会回来，但这是在中国。

Maybe or he will, but this is in China.

他又不是有我联系方式，下次回来还能给我打电话。

It's not like he has my number and he's going to ring me up the next time he comes back.

而且我去中国的时候，一年就去个两三回，每次待几周——至少以前是这样。

Also, when I go to China, I'm there a couple times a year for a few weeks, or at least that's what I used to do.

所以就算他两周后回来，我也可能不在了。

So even if he came back two weeks later, I might not be there.

所以这往往是另一个关键点。

So that's oftentimes another part of it.

能跟一位既在大中华区、也在拉斯维加斯打过大赛的人聊聊，挺有意思的。

And it's interesting to talk to someone who's been in the big games in China and in Las Vegas.

从打法风格来看，中西方文化之间差别大吗？

And is there a big difference in terms of style of play between the cultures?

首先，我觉得打法上的差异，就跟我说的这些有关。

First, I would say there's a difference in the style of play in the sense of what I'm just talking about.

我觉得很多中国玩家打得特别拼。

I mean, I think a lot of times the Chinese players are just more hardcore.

有不少中国休闲玩家，除非把钱输光，否则绝不收手。

I think there's a number of Chinese recreational players who you can expect that they just won't quit until they lose their money.

或者，他们得赢上一大笔才肯罢休。

Or they just have some really, really big win.

所以，通常是把钱输光为止。

So, usually, it's lose their money.

这就不太一样了。

So, that's different.

我觉得在美国，往往没那么拼死拼活。

I think oftentimes in The US, it's not quite as do or die.

所以游戏时间可能没那么长。

So maybe the sessions don't go as long.

但这也不是绝对的。

And that's not always true.

我只是说，这种情况比较常见。

I'm just saying it tends to be true.

两国都有人恰恰相反。

There's definitely people in both countries that will go the opposite way.

就打法而言，普通中国休闲玩家通常打得更松一些。

In terms of style of play, I think the Chinese recreational players on the average tend to be a little bit more looser.

他们倾向于打更多的牌。

They'll tend to play a little bit more hands.

他们可能更常 bluff 和跟注。

They tend to probably bluff and call a little bit more.

我的意思是，不是特别多，但这两种情况的比例还算不错。

I mean, not a lot, but that's pretty good mix of the two.

所以，我的意思是，如果他们没牌，他们可能更常 bluff，也更常拿着弱牌跟注到底。

So, I mean, they're a little bit more likely, if they have nothing, to maybe bluff and a little bit more likely to call down weak.

底池可能会稍微大一些，因为两边弃牌的情况都少了。

The pots will probably be a little bigger because that's like less folding, sort of, on both ends.

所以这可能会相当艰难。

So that can be pretty tough.

这稍微有点跑题了，因为不是关于在中国打牌，而是关于今年夏天即将举行的一场大型赛事——Colossus。

This is a little bit off the track because it's not about, you know, playing in China, but rather a huge game that's coming up this summer, the Colossus.

几乎所有人都对这场世界系列赛中5650美元买入的赛事感到兴奋。

Everybody and their mother is excited about this $5.65 buy in at the World Series.

对于那些对参加Colossus赛事充满期待的听众，你有什么快速实用的建议吗？

Do you have any tips that you could share quickly for our listeners who are excited about going to the Colossus?

这大概是因为这是最低入场费的赛事。

So this is probably because it's the lowest buy in tournament.

对很多新手来说，这可能是他们参加世界系列赛的首个或少数几个赛事之一。

It'll be maybe the first or one of the first tournaments, I guess, for World Series tournaments for more inexperienced people.

我第一个想到的通用建议是：这是一场超长的比赛。

I would say the first thing that comes to my mind as a general tip would be, it's a long tournament.

估计会持续四天左右。

It's probably going to be like a four day event or something like that.

想赢下这场比赛，需要花很长的时间。

So it's going to take a long time to win the tournament.

你不可能在第一天、第二天，甚至第三天就赢下来。

You're not going to win the tournament on day one or day two or even day three.

只有打到最终桌，你才真正有机会夺冠。

You don't win it until you get to the final table.

所以记住要耐心，让牌自然来找你。

So just remember to stay patient and let the cards come to you.

当然，这是建立在你的筹码量还不错的前提下。

Now, that's assuming that you have a reasonable stack size, obviously.

等你的M值变低时，就得开始找机会抢筹码了，不能光等着盲注把你耗光。

At some point, when your M gets low, you need to start looking for ways to pick up chips, to not just blind out.

但这就要深入讨论策略了，比如在什么位置该开牌、全下或加注，用什么牌型。

But that gets into more strategic considerations about what hands do you open, shove, or re raise from what positions.

但总的来说，我还是建议你保持耐心。

But just in general, I would say you want to stay patient.

这是一场漫长的赛事。

It's a long tournament.

我觉得很多新手习惯的都是单日赛事，对吧？

I think a lot of people who are more inexperienced, they're used to just one day tournaments, right?

比如你去赌场，花一百块或五十块买个赛位。

Like you go to a casino, you buy in for the $100 or $50 tournament.

那天比赛就结束了。

That tournament's over that day.

我是说，这可是个三到四天的赛事。

I mean, this is a three or four day tournament.

所以盲注结构会比你平时打的更长，你也不会像打十五或二十分钟一轮的赛事那样赶时间。

So, the blind structure will be longer than what you're used to, and you're in a little bit less of a rush than tournaments that have fifteen or twenty minute levels.

不会出现两个小时之内，整个牌桌所有人手里的筹码都只剩十五个大盲注的情况。

You're not gonna be, all of a sudden, the whole table's not gonna have 15 big blinds in two hours.

所以比赛的大部分时间都会有大量牌局可打，你也得相应地调整策略。

So there's gonna be a lot of play throughout most of the tournament, and you should, you know, act accordingly.

这正好引出了我们之前在世界系列赛前开的那些课程。

And I guess that's a perfect segue taking us back to your seminars at the World Series before the classes.

那你能不能跟我们说说，你们都会讲些什么内容？

So do you want to talk to us about what it is you guys will be covering?

是的，我们会在世界系列赛前办一天的课程，专门讲现金桌游戏。

Yeah, so we're going to have a one day class right before the World Series that's going to cover cash games.

我觉得这会是一场现金桌研讨会。

I believe it's going be a cash game seminar.

对，会有部分讲解，但主要是实战演练，大家打牌，高手来分析。

Yeah, it's going to be a little bit of lecture, but mostly just hand labs where people will play through hands and pros will analyze.

像我本人也会在现场。

Like myself, I will be there.

我会观察大家的打法，指出哪些地方可以做得不一样。

I'll analyze what people are doing and what they could have done differently.

而且临近世界系列赛，这样能帮你提前掌握策略，从我这样的老手这里学到一些打扑克的真本事。

And maybe discuss, as it's good going into the World Series, to get a leg up on your strategy and get some insight from someone like me who's been around and might have a thing or two to teach you about how to play poker right.

那你自己对世界系列赛期待吗？

And are you looking forward to the World Series yourself?

这么多年了，这一年这个时候对你来说还是那么令人兴奋吗？

Is it still an exciting time of the year for you even after all of these years?

是的。

Yeah.

相比五年前，世界系列赛对我来说反而更精彩了，但跟第一次去的时候比，还是差了点意思。

The World Series has actually gotten more exciting for me than it was maybe five years ago, but it's not quite what it was the first time that I went.

我以前主要打现金牌，刚去参加世界系列赛那会儿成绩不太好，之后就很少打锦标赛了。

Since I was predominantly a cash game player for a while, you know, after initially going to the World Series and having things not work out too well, I kind of just didn't play very many tournaments.

有一年世界系列赛，我干脆跑去澳门了，压根没参加。

And there was even one World Series where I missed it to go to Macau.

那时候我就想，算了，随它吧。

And I just was like, Ah, whatever.

不就是一堆锦标赛嘛。

It's a bunch of tournaments.

我就想打现金牌。

I just want to play cash.

我其实也拿过锦标赛的冠军，现在打的锦标赛比以前多了些。

I've had tournament success and I play more tournaments maybe than I used to.

我确实期待世界系列赛的到来，不过它现在未必是我最想要的了——毕竟那时候是新玩意儿，人生中每回遇到新鲜事，总会有点兴奋，因为你从来没经历过。

I do look forward to the World Series coming around and it's maybe not what I want to because it was, you know, a new event and you're always, whenever it's something new in your life, you're always excited in a way because you're going to experience something you've never experienced.

现在没那么激动了，但我还是很期待。

Now, it's not quite as eager, but I definitely look forward to it.

这时候能见到很多多年未见的朋友，平时几乎只有在世界系列赛时才能碰面，大家都来，扑克圈里一连一个多月都有各种精彩赛事，气氛特别热闹。

It's a time where I'm going to see a lot of people who I've met over the years and I kind of only might see them during the World Series and everybody comes, and poker players all there's a bunch of interesting, exciting tournaments and just good action for a month and a half.

除了正式比赛，贝拉吉奥、Aria、里约这些地方也都会有私人牌局。

So even outside of the tournaments, there'll be games at the Bellagio, the Aria, the Rio.

这确实是这一年里挺不错的一段时间。

And, yeah, it's good time of the year.

我猜你也会打One Drop这场吗？

And I assume you'll be playing the One Drop?

今年我会打。

Actually, this year.

One Drop是十万美金的那场，不是百万美金的那场，我会参加。

One Drop is the one hundred ks one, not the one million one, and I will play that.

今年夏天最大的赛事，你可能还没听说，叫超级高额奖金赛。

But the biggest tournament this summer, I don't know if you've heard of it yet, there's gonna be, it's called the Super High Roller Bowl.

你们知道卡莉·卡茨是谁吗？

Do you guys know who Carrie Katz is?

知道。

Yes.

卡莉·卡茨过去一年半一直在Aria赌场办这种一天制的高额奖金赛事。

So Carrie Katz has been running these one day high roller tournaments at the ARIA for the last year and a half.

而且他正打算创办一个扑克电视频道。

And He's actually starting a poker TV channel.

为了启动这个频道，他正在操办这个超级高额奖金赛，内容包括一到两天的电视直播高额现金局，还有一场五十万美元买入的锦标赛，而且他不抽水。

As part of starting it, he's running this Super High Roller Bowl, which is going to be one or two days of televised high stakes cash games, and then a $500,000 buy in tournament, which he isn't raking.

真的吗？

Wow.

所以完全不抽水。

So there's no rake.

会有一些像他这样的业余玩家参加。

There's going to be some amateurs like himself who play it.

有个网站，我记得是 superhighrollerbowl.com。

There's a website, I think it's superhighrollerbowl.com.

已经口头承诺参赛的人数越来越多了，虽然他们还没交那五十万的报名费。

The number of players who have committed, albeit they haven't put up the 500 ks, they've made a verbal commitment, is starting to get very large.

我上次看的时候，已经有五六十人了，这还不包括那些可能临时决定报名的人。

The last I looked, it was like 50 or 60, and this isn't even including some people who might sign up and play more on a last minute basis.

哇，今年最大的赛事可能就在Aria举办了。

Wow, so the biggest tournament might be at the ARIA this year.

今年夏天最大的赛事，除了主赛事之外，应该就是他办的这个超级高额奖金赛了，地点不一定在Aria，但肯定就在他办赛的地方。

It looks like the biggest tournament this summer, other than the main event, is going to be I don't know if it's at the ARIA, but it's wherever he's having the super high rollerball.

太惊人了。

Wow.

报名费全免，不抽水。

Buy in no rake.

比赛全程直播。

It'll be televised.

我不确定是只会在他的扑克电视频道播出，还是会先在别的电视台播，然后再上那个频道，毕竟那个频道现在还没上线呢。

I don't know if it's gonna just come out on his poker TV channel, or it's gonna be on another network as well before it goes on that channel, because that channel's not obviously up yet.

所以我也说不准具体会怎样。

So, I don't know exactly.

不过这个夏天你可得留意一下，这将是除了主赛事之外规模最大的比赛。

But yeah, would look out for that one this summer, because that will be the biggest tournament other than the main event.

是的，听起来太棒了。

Yeah, that sounds amazing.

对，这个夏天肯定会特别精彩。

Yeah, it's going to be an exciting summer.

现在世界系列赛就是这样的。

That's the thing about the World Series now.

如今赛事安排得太疯狂了，One Drop赛事启动了，今年还是个非主办年。

There's just so much crazy action thrown in nowadays with the One Drop starting, and this year on an off year.

我不清楚One Drop今年会怎么安排。

I don't know what's going to happen with the One Drop.

去年的情况并不乐观。

Last year was not a good sign for it.

说实话，能帮慈善机构确实很好，能做这件事也很棒。

The truth of it is that it's great to help out Charity, and that it's awesome that it's doing that.

作为一次性的活动，他成功拉来了一批富有的业余玩家参赛，结果不少职业选手也跟着报名了。虽然这确实对慈善有帮助，但说实话，职业选手自己掏一百万，再找人买股份，利润考量也难免会掺进来。

As a one off event, he got a bunch of rich amateurs to sign up, and that in turn, a bunch of pros came and signed up, which, as much as it's great to help out Charity, the truth is, for a professional, putting up a million and then asking a bunch of people to buy pieces of them, a profitability aspect does come into play as well.

而且

And

尤其是，哪怕只是一次没那么重要，但如果每两年就办一次，那就真不能忽视了。

especially, even if just one time maybe it wasn't that important, if you're gonna do the event every other year, it does become important.

你不能总指望别人每两年就为大局牺牲一次。

You can't really ask people just on an every other year basis to just take one for the team.

你可是想筹一百万美元呢。

You're trying to raise a million dollars.

所以你看，第二次办的时候，业余玩家少了，虽然多了一张桌子，理论上能从48人涨到56人，结果参赛人数反而更少了。

So, I think what you saw was when less amateur players played the second time, even though they had one extra table available, so they could have jumped from 48 to 56, there was actually less people.

他们这次的人数甚至比第一次还少。

They didn't even get as many as the first time.

这可不是个好兆头，毕竟你不可能在这么大规模的百万美元入场费活动中，只靠抽成11.1%来吸引职业选手参与，哪怕是为了慈善。

And it's kind of not a good sign, and that's what's just going to happen because you just can't rake an event 11.1% even for charity on an event like that big, on a million dollar buying event and just get a bunch of professionals to do it.

要筹到这么多钱，实在不容易。

It's just a lot of money to raise.

我会看看会不会再办一次百万美元入场费的活动。

I will see whether or there will be another million dollar buying event.

可能不会再有了。

It might not happen again.

但十万美元的赛事就相对现实多了。

I But don't the one hundred ks one is a little bit more reachable.

我觉得这种赛事，更多业余玩家都能负担得起。

I think that's an event that a lot more amateur players can put up the money.

如果你是个身家四千万的业余扑克玩家，凑出十万应该不难。

If you're a guy worth $40,000,000 which is a lot, and you're an amateur poker player, you can probably figure out a way to put up 100.

但一百万就完全是另一回事了。

But a million is like another story.

这已经占到你净资产的很大一部分了。

That's a significant percentage of your net worth now.

而且在你 poker 技术又不好的情况下，确实挺难的。

And in a situation where not only are you not a good poker player, so yeah, it's rough.

哇哦。

Wow.

非常感谢你来参加，布莱恩。

Thank you so much for coming on, Brian.

人们在哪里能了解到你的研讨会信息？

Where can people find out about your seminars?

是的。

Yeah.

搜索 zenpokermentoring.com 就行。

Look up zenpokermentoring.com.