012 Antonio "bettinglife" Ramalho – The Mindset Advantage Podcast

欢迎收听《心态优势》播客第12期，嘉宾是特里西亚和埃利奥特。

Welcome to the Mindset Advantage podcast episode number 12 with Doctor.

特里西亚·卡德纳和埃利奥特·罗伊。

Tricia Cardner and Elliot Roi.

特里西亚，跟我们聊聊你自己吧。

So Tricia, tell us about yourself.

大家好，我是特里西亚。

Hey everyone, it's Doctor.

特里西亚·卡德纳。

Trisha Cardner.

我写过《积极扑克》这本书，同时也为扑克玩家、运动员和商业人士提供中局策略指导。

I'm the author of Positive Poker and middle game coach to poker players, athletes and business people.

我的名字是埃利奥特·罗伊。

And my name is Elliot Roi.

我是一名催眠治疗师，主要帮助扑克玩家和UFC拳手。

I'm a hypnotherapist and I work with poker players and UFC fighters.

那么，Trisha，这周你有什么建议要分享吗？

So Trisha, what tip do you have for us this week?

我想聊聊拖延这件事，最近有一项新研究刚发布，参与人数超过一千人。

Well, I wanted to bring up a little something about procrastination and a little piece of research just came out that had over a thousand participants take part.

这项研究的教授是奥斯曼，来自南加州大学，他提出一个真正能帮你克服拖延的方法：假设你有一个目标，需要一整年才能完成。

The professor on it was, I think you say the name Oserman out of USC and the way that you can actually stop procrastinating is let's say we have a goal that is going to take us a year to complete.

比如说，你想成为‘超新星精英’，你知道这需要一整年的时间去努力。

Let's say we want to become Supernova Elite and we know it's gonna take us the whole year to work on it.

但你可以从不同角度去看待这个目标。

Well, we can think about it in a couple of ways.

你可以想‘这得花我一整年’，也可以想‘十二个月’，甚至进一步拆成几周，或者每天的任务。

We can think about it in it's gonna take me a year to complete or we can think it's gonna take twelve months or we can even break it down to weeks or even days.

根据这项研究，帮你摆脱拖延、更快行动的小技巧就是：把未来的计划用‘天’来计算，而不是用月或年，这样更能激发你立刻行动。

And the little trick that will help you quit procrastinating and get started sooner based off this research is that you should think about your upcoming goals in terms of days instead of months or years, because that's going to motivate the action.

所以，你不是只盯着那个遥远的大目标，而是专注于每一天的小任务，一步步推进。

Okay, so it's sort of instead of just seeing this wider goal and focusing on the end result, you're just focusing on these daily targets to work your way through.

没错。

Exactly.

所以如果你这么想，比如说，你打算十八年后送孩子上大学。

So if you think about, okay, let's say you're gonna send your kid to college in eighteen years.

你刚有了孩子。

You you just had a kid.

我知道你最近刚有了孩子。

I know you have a children recently.

比如你可能会想到孩子的大学基金。

And so you might be thinking about their college fund.

你可以把它看作十八年，也可以算成六千五百七十天。

Well, you could think about it in terms of eighteen years, or you could think I have six thousand five hundred and seventy days.

用天数来衡量，你会比用年来衡量更早开始存钱。

And thinking about it in days will get you to start saving sooner than if you think about it in years.

这确实很有道理。

That certainly makes sense.

是的

Yeah.

想想还真有点吓人。

It's scary to think of.

我得赶紧开始存钱了。

Oh, I better start that saving.

对。

Yes.

今天节目里我们请到了安东尼奥，我尽量把他的姓氏读准，是拉马略。

And today on the show, we have Antonio, and I'll try and pronounce his surname correctly, Ramalho.

他被称为‘扑克之星上的投注人生’，自2012年起就是超新星精英玩家，那年他刚开始打的是10美元的Sit & Go，后来在巨大的压力下，一边提升牌桌级别，一边增加牌局数量，最终升到了超新星精英。

He's known as Betting Life on Poker Stars and he's been a Supernova Elite since 2012 where he actually started the year playing $10 sit and goes and worked his way up to Supernova Elite under an enormous amount of pressure moving up through the stakes and then also getting in the volume.

那我们现在就给安东尼奥打电话吧。

So we'll give Antonio a call now.

安东尼奥，谢谢你来参加节目。

So Antonio, thanks for coming on the show.

你能跟听众们简单介绍一下自己吗？

If you could just introduce yourself to the listeners.

大家好，我是安东尼奥。

Hello, I'm Antonio.

我在扑克巡回赛上靠打牌为生，长期玩六人桌超快牌局，没错。

I'm betting life at Poker Tour and I play 6 max hyper for a long time now and yeah.

太好了。

Excellent.

你已经是 Supernova Elite 好几年了，之前我们聊到你是怎么起步的，从低注额一路打上来的过程。

And you've been a Supernova Elite for a number of years and we were talking with you before about where that started and that sort of process from the lower stakes through.

你能跟我们说说，2012年那一年你具体是怎么做的吗？

If you could talk us through what you managed to do in that twenty twelve year.

好的。

Okay.

那时候我一直在拼命打，为了冲上 Supernova Elite 这个等级，我早就想达成这个目标了。

So when I was grinding, I grinded Supernova Elite for forever and there's this rank called Supernova Elite that I always wanted to do.

我一直觉得那些玩家都是天才，或者有我不具备的特殊天赋。

I always thought that these players were like genius or they had some special talent that I didn't have.

但其实这是我真凭实学赢来的，到2011年底，我还在玩平均投入10美元的牌局。

But it was something that I truly won, and I was playing like an average buying of $10 in the end of twenty eleven.

到了2012年，我突然有了一个全新的目标，干劲十足，虽然我知道这种状态不会持久，但那一刻我下定决心，一定要拿到这个头衔。

And in 2012, I had this like new resolution high motivation peak that I know is temporary, but for a moment I decided I really want this and I really wanna get it.

但我根本不知道要经历多少磨炼才能达成，我只是决定开始每天工作十个小时，拼了命地干。

But I didn't really know what I had to go through to get it, and I just decided, and I started working every day, like ten hours, and just crazy work.

那时候我对数据分析一窍不通，统计知识也特别浅薄。

I didn't know any statistics, of this not very deep knowledge in statistics by then.

我得一步步走完整个过程，结果到六月份，我就已经打上高注额了。

I had to go through all the process, and I just was able to be in high stakes by June.

到六月的时候，我只攒了20%的超新星精英积分。

So I had to grind, I had only 20% of Supernova Elite in June.

所以我从六月到十二月，一点一点地刷，终于拿到了超新星精英。

So I had to grind my way to Supernova Elite from June to December.

我得完成剩下的80%。

I had to do 80%.

所以我觉得那一年我总共花了大约两千五百个小时。

So I had to I think I worked around two thousand five hundred hours that year.

那都是在牌桌上花的时间吗？

And that was just on the table working?

不是。

No.

总的来说，我觉得不算。

Overall, I think no.

哦，这样啊。

Oh, okay.

我不太确定，但总体来看，应该是的。

I'm not sure, but I think overall, yes.

每个月大概两百个小时。

Two hundred hours a month.

是的。

Yeah.

大概吧。

Probably.

在你决定实现这个目标之前，你打扑克的认真程度如何？

So before you decided to undertake this goal, how serious of a poker player were you?

其实我当时已经靠这个赚钱了，但葡萄牙生活成本低，赚得不多也能过活。

Well, I was already making a living out of it, but because Portugal, you don't need much to make a living.

不过我谈不上特别专业，比如在自律方面。

But but I was not, like, super professional in terms of, like, discipline.

即使牌局不错，我周末还是照常出去玩。

I would go out on weekends even if the games were good.

我从不规律地学习研究。

I wouldn't study on a regular basis.

我的心理状态根本没被我重视过，我甚至都不知道打扑克还有心理层面需要打磨。

My mental game was not even I I was not even aware that there was a mental game to be worked on.

我那时候有很多方面需要改进，说白了，就像一块还没打磨好的钻石。

And I had a lot of things to work on and just really, how do you say, it's like a diamond that was not in shape yet.

我不太知道该怎么形容。

I don't know what it

你确实需要好好打磨一下。

was gonna you You needed some refining.

对。

Yes.

那在那几年里，你后来又拿到了Supernova Elite称号，对吧？

And then in terms of those years, you then continued to get Supernova Elite after that.

你2012年第一次拿到Supernova Elite，之后一直保持着，对吧？

So you have that big year, 2012, you got your first Supernova Elite and then you've also kept Supernova Elite up, haven't you?

接下来这些年，保持这种动力有多难？

How hard has it been to keep that motivation with the following years?

我觉得动力这东西很短暂，就跟其他情绪一样。真正能让你长期保持高水平的，是第一次拿到Supernova Elite时养成的习惯和仪式感。

I think motivation is something really temporary, it's like any other emotion and I think the biggest key for maintaining the high level is habits and rituals that you acquire during your first time of Supernova Elite.

我以前没有这种自律和努力工作的习惯，所以我就刻意培养它们，一旦养成了，坚持下去就容易多了。

Like I didn't have this discipline and habits of working hard, so I trained myself to add them, and then it's easier to just keep doing them.

但第一次最难，这是肯定的。

But the first time is definitely the hardest one.

看到朋友出去玩、聚会，而你却知道必须埋头苦干；你明明有钱去旅行，却不能花，因为还得工作。

When you see your friends having fun, partying, and you know that you have to just grind, You see you have money to travel and you cannot spend it because you have to work.

这才是最艰难的部分——为了更高的目标，放弃本可以享受的东西。

And that's the hardest part, like sacrificing other things, even though you can do them in order to, for a higher purpose.

我特别感兴趣你提到的这种习惯，还有打造属于自己的卓越环境，我在我的书《积极扑克》里也写过这个。

You know, I'm really interested in this idea of habits and developing your own environment of excellence and I actually write about it in my book Positive Poker.

你能跟我们的听众分享一下，你培养了哪些关键习惯，才达到今天的水平吗？

But can you just tell our listeners some of the key habits that you developed that enabled you to get to this level?

对我来说，我会把大目标拆解，比如我想一年赚一万五千块，我就给自己设定小目标。

Okay, so for me what I try to do is I try to break down, for example if I want to work $1,500 a year, I try to make small goals for myself.

我会定每天的目标、每周的目标，还有每月的目标。

I try to make daily goals, week goals, and month goals.

我还会安排好时间，让自己有空闲，不然总觉得看不到头。

And I try to organize myself so I can have some free time and I don't see any light in the end of the tunnel.

要是全年都埋头工作，那也太疯狂了。

I'm just going to work all year, that would be crazy.

我会给自己定目标，比如这周要工作四十个小时。

I try to put, okay, I'm gonna work this week, I'm gonna try to work forty hours.

这些小目标能让人更有动力，因为完成它们会让你觉得，更大的目标也并非遥不可及。

And these small goals make us much more motivated because we realize that we can achieve these small goals, so we're likely to achieve the higher goals.

我也会尽量让生活保持平衡。

And I try to balance my life a little bit.

我经常锻炼。

I work out a lot.

第一年我根本没注意这个，但现在我觉得，当你设定如此高远的工作目标时，保持生活平衡至关重要，这样才能持久坚持下去。

And I think it's something that I didn't do in the first year, but I think it's really important to have a life balance when you're just making such an ambitious goal in terms of work, like in terms of work ethic and in order to be sustainable.

很多成功的嘉宾都提到过这一点：锻炼身体、保持良好体态，和在扑克桌上取得成功之间有着密切联系。

And this is something that's come up with quite a few of the guests who've been successful, this link between exercise, being in physically good shape and succeeding in poker.

你对此有什么看法？

What do you have to say on that?

你觉得锻炼对你在牌桌上的耐力有多重要？

Like how important do you feel that exercise has been for your stamina at the table?

说实话，我没法比较，因为我从来就没在饮食或锻炼上不健康过。

To be honest with you, I can't really compare because I've never been unhealthy in terms of food habits and exercise.

不过根据我最近打现场扑克的经验，我特别注意自己的饮食。

But from what I see, like, I've been playing some live poker recently, and I take all my diet.

我进赌场之前会把一天所有餐食都提前准备好。

I I prepare everything before I go into the casino, and I prepare all my diet for all the meals of the day.

我看那些人打到第三四天就撑不住了，身体状态明显垮了，累得不行，而我反而更清醒，更有状态去竞争。

And I can see these guys burning out, like, in terms of body language and after three or four days of work, they're just so much more tired than me and I'm just more sharp and ready to compete.

你以前打过什么竞技运动吗？

Were you any sort of competitor outside of poker?

比如有没有参加过体育项目，这些想法是这么来的，还是有别的来源？

You know, like did you ever play sports or anything like that and that's where you got these ideas from or did it come from somewhere else?

不，说来有趣，我所有的自律其实都是打扑克练出来的。

No, it's funny because all my discipline came actually from poker.

自从开始打牌，我就对自己要求严格多了，也更有规律了。

Started to be much more harsh with myself and more disciplined since I started playing.

以前我其实挺懒的。

And I was actually pretty lazy before.

那你现在主要玩什么牌局？

And, which games are you playing at the moment?

就只玩一种类型吗？

Do you just play one game type?

还是会玩好几种不同的牌局？

Would you play over multiple game types?

我主要玩六人桌，还有单桌赛，偶尔也打一些高注额的MPT，但基本上就是这两种，单桌赛。

I play six max, see and goes, but I also play some MPTs, the higher stakes that run, but yeah, pretty much it, sit gos.

那现在单桌赛的局势怎么样？

Okay, and how's the dynamic of the sit and gos at the moment?

现在玩这个的，是常客多，还是还有休闲玩家在玩？

Is it lots of regulars or are there still recreational players playing them?

我觉得现在这种模式可能是最激烈的赛制之一。

I think right now are likely one of the most competitive structures.

也许高注额现金局更激烈，但问题是现在牌堆更浅，反而更容易达到均衡状态。

Maybe high stakes cash games are more competitive, but what happens is that we're playing shorter stacks so it's in a way easier to achieve an equilibrium.

所以每个人打得都特别接近GTO。

And so everybody's really playing close to GDO.

结果就是，大家都拼命打，就为了攒够两个或三个超新星精英积分，或者一个。

And what happens is everybody's just making this crazy grind to grind two or three Supernova Elite or one Supernova Elite.

可这样一来，他们连返水都拿不到，加上比赛竞争太激烈，波动又大，人人都在死磕自己的技术。

And what happens is they lose rakeback, and games are so competitive, It's such a big variance, everybody working on their game.

所以心理层面就变得特别关键，因为当你在策略上再怎么钻研，进步也微乎其微——你已经练得够多了。

So that's where mental games takes part because when you work a bit on your theory game, the incremental improvement is slight because you just worked so much in it.

但如果你从来没练过心理素质，哪怕只是稍微花点心思，提升也会非常显著。

But if you never worked on your mental game, if you invest a little bit on it, it's gonna be huge improvement.

所以我觉得这是个值得考虑的问题。

So I think that's something to think about.

没错，我觉得这确实是技术很强的人最容易获得优势的途径。

Yeah I mean I think it's definitely something where it's the easiest way for people to generate an edge if technically they're really very strong.

因为像你说的，很多人根本从来没练过心理层面。

Because so many people, as you say, just have never really worked on their mental game at all.

对。

Yeah.

尤其是当玩家往上走的时候，级别越高，这种情况就越普遍，我觉得。

Especially as people are moving up, obviously, the higher stakes, it's more normal, I think.

是的。

Mhmm.

对。

Yeah.

我最近一直在尝试打更高注额的比赛。

I've been trying to play higher stakes for some time.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我觉得我就是个例子，想打高注额并不真的需要多有天赋，因为我失败过太多次了。

I I think I'm the example that in order to play a certain high stakes, you don't really need to be really talented because I failed so many times.

我试过，然后就做到了。

And I I tried it, and then I did it.

而为了达到我现在这个位置，我就是一次次地失败。

And then I in order to be where I am, I just failed so many times.

你明白吗？

You know?

我不是那种一上来就一路飙升、事事顺遂的玩家。

I I was not the player that you see the stories like, I just moved so much so quick in stakes, and I everything went well for me.

我就是那种反复尝试、反复失败，一次次回去，最后才成功的那种人。

You know, I'm the guy that tried and failed and had to go there again many times, and then he did it.

所以我觉得，如果有人想打高注额，至少先打到像超新星精英这个级别，那更多靠的是努力，而不是天赋。

So I think if if somebody wants to play high stakes, then goes at least until a certain level, like Supernova Elite level, I think it's more related with hard work than a talent.

也许在顶尖的那1%的顶级选手身上，天赋还能起点作用，但总的来说，在这个领域，努力本身就是一种天赋。

Maybe you can use talent in some maybe top 10, top 0.1% world class players, but in general I think so hard work would be talent in this case.

在心理学里，我们有个词，你可能听说过，叫‘韧性’。

You know in psychology we have this term and maybe you know it, we call it grit.

就是那种能一直坚持做一件事的性格特质。

And that's just this personality trait where you can really stick to something.

研究发现，有韧性的人，长期来看比天生有天赋的人更有优势。

And we find that gritty people have the edge long term over just naturally talented people.

这个概念你熟悉吗？

Is that a concept familiar to you?

这个词我不太熟，但我认为，生活中那些有坚定性格的人，往往更容易成功，因为坚持和卓越不是一时的行为，而是一种习惯，对吧？

Not the word itself, but I think people in life that trade our personality will likely succeed more because perseverance and like excellency is not an act, it's an habit, Right?

亚里士多德就说过这话。

Aristotle would say that.

所以我觉得，如果你有非常严格的习惯，每天都坚持做事，不管发生什么都不找借口，那你一定会更成功。

So I think if you have, like, these really strict habits and you just do the work every single day no matter what, no excuses, you're just gonna be more successful.

如果你去问迈克尔·菲尔普斯，谁是最伟大的运动员，为什么，他会说，是那个不管怎样都坚持训练的人。

And if you ask Michael Phelps, who's the greatest athlete and why, he says, it's the guy who just puts the work no matter what.

不管生什么病，遇到什么困难，他每天都照常训练。

No matter what disease, no matter what problems he has, he just puts the work every single day.

因为那些灵感和动力都是暂时的，就像一阵冲动，来得快去得也快。

Because, you know, these inspiration and motivations are just temporary, like, fool that you have, but then they're gone.

很多时候训练特别枯燥，人也会疲惫，这时候你只能靠意志力硬撑下去。

And there's a lot of times that you're just so boring playing and burnout, and you just have to be willing to put the work.

她提到，你在2012年那段时间训练时曾经精疲力尽。

And she mentioned that you burnt out during that original 2012 grind to us.

对你来说，精疲力尽是什么感觉？

What was burnout for you?

是啊，今年我也经历过一些疲惫期。

Yeah, burnout for me is like, even this year I had some kind of burnout.

我现在了解自己的身体和状态，一有苗头就能察觉到。

I know my body now and I know myself and I can feel it.

那时候我太投入了，简直着了魔，整天研究牌局，坐在桌边打，下了桌还在琢磨第二天怎么打，整个人的生活都围着牌转。

It's like when I put so much, I'm so obsessed with the game, then I'm studying so much, I'm playing at the tables, then I go outside the tables, and I'm studying for the next day, and I'm putting as much, just all my effort in my life is just a game.

所以那阵子我确实进步很快，但显然没法一直这样撑下去，最后 inevitably 就撑不住了。

So when it happens, I improved a lot for some period of time, but then it's not sustainable, of course, and then I'll eventually burn out.

一到那时候，我就完全不想打牌，脑子反应特别迟钝，坐在桌边心里清楚得很——我 burnout 了，必须得歇个一两周，等缓过劲来，才能重新变得敏锐、有状态。

And what happens is that I don't feel like playing, my brain is very slow in terms of thought process, I'm at the tables and I'm I can feel it, you know, I have experienced that I know that I'm burned out, I need to take some time off and like a week or two, and then I'm feeling great and sharp to play again.

但2012年那会儿，情况不一样。

But in 2012, it was different.

我根本没时间休息。

I didn't have time to take breaks.

只能硬撑着，带着 burnout 继续打。

So I had to keep playing burned out.

我记得那时候打牌都出冷汗，心里烦得要命，可还是得硬着头皮打，结果发现，居然靠继续打牌，反而能把 burnout 挺过去。

And I remember I was sweating like of being like, it was so irritating for me to play at the moment, but I had to just keep playing and I could cure my burnouts by playing.

我想接着问一下，你刚才提到学习，我本人特别支持学习，但你能跟听众说说，你平时是怎么学习的？或者你建议别人怎么学扑克？

I wanna follow-up because you did just mention studying and I'm a big proponent of studying, but can you give the listeners an idea of how you study or how you would propose that they study poker?

这得看他们现在打到什么级别了。

Well, it really depends on the level they're playing.

但如果你打算往中高级别打，之前最好先想清楚，自己到底是不是真想要这个。

But for eventual players that wanna play higher, like mid stakes and high stakes before studying, I think they should realize if there's something they truly want.

因为这条路会遇到很多困难，也会经历很多艰难的时刻。

Because there's gonna be a lot of difficulties and really hard things that will happen to them.

如果你想通过学习去打更高注额，这几乎是大概率会出问题的事，对大多数人来说都是如此。

If you wanna study to play higher stakes, which is the most likely, It's very likely that it will go wrong, at least for most people.

一旦情况变糟，很多人就放弃了。

And when things go wrong, this is when people give up.

其实他们心里愿意努力，但不愿意为此放弃其他东西。

So in their minds, people are willing to work hard, but they're not willing to sacrifice other things.

他们还想聚会、看电影、约女生，可时间是有限的资源。

They wanna party, they wanna watch movies, hanging out with girls, and and time is a limited asset.

我觉得这才是最大的挑战。

And I think it's the biggest challenge.

所以，如果你愿意投入这么多努力，并且愿意牺牲其他方面，那就可以一步步把基础打牢。

So if you're willing to put all this work and sacrifice other things, then you can go through the basics of work.

你可以分析自己的对局记录，或者如果你玩的是网站上更低的级别，那就去观察那些玩更高级别的人，看看他们为什么这么做、那么做。

I think you can analyze your end histories, or if you're playing lower stakes than the ones that are available on the site, you can just look at the regulars that are playing higher and figure out why they're doing this or that.

他们做的事情肯定和你不一样，当你看懂了他们的做法，逐渐熟悉他们的思路，你就越来越接近能和他们同台竞技的水平了。

They're definitely doing things different than you are, And when you see what they do and you get more comfortable with their information, then you're getting closer to ready to play at their level.

在你的牌局里，显然波动特别大，因为每个人水平都差不多。

And with your games, there's there's obviously an awful lot of variance because everyone is so close.

你是怎么应对这种6人桌里不可避免的起伏的？

How do you deal with just the natural swings of of being in those 6 max games?

这确实很难，从理论层面来说，我处理得还不错，但情绪上，我其实挺难扛住的。

It's pretty hard because I know it's my in terms of, my theory, I deal with it pretty well, but in terms of emotionally, I don't deal with that well.

我懂理论。

I know the theory.

我所有计算都自己做。

I I run all the calculations.

我知道自己需要多少资金。

I know the the bankroll that I need.

我知道这种情况多多少少总会发生，但一旦发生，影响就特别大。

I know that it will happen a percentage of the time this or that, but when it happens, it's a big difference.

明白吗？

Know?

每年年初，我都会定好全年所需的资金，然后留出足够覆盖开销的部分。

It's it's like when I'm in the beginning of the year, I usually set my bankroll that I need for the year, and I take the money enough that I cover my expenses.

所以其实我没什么压力。

So I don't really I don't feel the pressure.

输钱的时候，我也不会觉得非得借钱补上。

When I lose, I don't feel that I need the debt money or anything.

但因为比赛竞争太激烈，波动实在太大，有时候真很难保持冷静。

But the variance is so high because games are so competitive, it's really hard to keep, like, irrational sometimes, to keep it cool.

比如说，一个玩家的年预期收益是十万块，这就是个例子。

And what happens is that, let's say the expected value of a player is, sixty years a year, like 100 ks, as an example.

但波动太大了，一个月内就可能亏掉那笔钱的百分之三十，这对玩家来说真是极大的考验。

But the variance is so high that it can lose that 30% of that amount in a month and that can be really testing, like challenging for a player, yes.

听起来你讲的正是我们常说的‘情绪失控’吧。

So it sounds like you're talking about our dreaded friend Tilt here.

你意思是不是说，玩家因为连输而心态崩了？

Is that what you're kinda getting at, tilting?

没错，就是那种运气差到爆导致的情绪崩溃。

Yeah, definitely, like running bad tilt.

这种情绪失控特别有意思，我见过不少顶级选手，虽然不能点名，但有人因为连输就疯狂降级打低注额，就为了找回信心——而他明明有足够资金打最高级别的牌局，还是世界顶尖水平的玩家。

This form of tilt is very funny because I've seen, I'm not gonna mention any M's, but I've seen world class player tilting so hard about his bad run that he started to play ridiculous low stakes for some time to get his confidence back while he had so much money to play the highest stakes available, and he was one of the best in the world.

你想想，这个人，论实力，我觉得他就是最强的，至少是顶尖之一，手头宽裕，却跑去打十分之一注额的游戏。

So, like, imagine this guy, like, the best, one of the best, for me he was the best, but he was one of the best, and he had money, and he was playing 10 times lower ABI.

有一阵子，他教的学生打的注额都比他高，还是他出钱赞助的。

Some time, and his students were playing higher than him, staked by him.

这事儿真是让人哭笑不得。

So it's, like, very funny.

你 definitely 能看出这里有个心理问题，这确实是需要去调整的，因为影响的不只是你打牌时犯的错误，还有错失的机会，对吧？

You you definitely can see a mental game issue here and, something that you work on because it's not just the mistakes you make on the game, it's also the opportunity cost, right?

那是如果你没被心理问题拖累，本来可以做到的事情。

It's what you could have done if you didn't have the mental game issue.

你在实际牌桌上也能观察到这种情况吗？

And do you actually see it in real time on the tables as well?

比如有人牌局不顺，突然就开始做出一些特别古怪的举动。

So perhaps somebody who's going through a session that's not going well for them and suddenly they start making very bizarre plays at the table.

你是从常客身上看到这种现象吗？还是说常客们牌风都挺稳的？

Do you see that from the regs or are the regs all pretty solid in their play?

我一般不太关注别人在干嘛。

I usually don't pay attention much to what they do.

我只专注自己的发挥，而且我同时打很多桌。

I just focus in what I do, but and I play many tables.

但我很清楚他们很容易崩盘，有些玩家会在 Skype 上找我抱怨，说赢不了我是因为波动太大，还说我状态好得离谱。

But I definitely know that they tilt hard because some guys write me on Skype complaining that they can't win against me because of the variance, saying I just felt good.

这事儿特别有意思。

And it's very funny.

有时候我输得惨不忍睹，他们却直接跑来跟我说：天哪。

Like, sometimes I'm losing so much, and they come right to me like, my god.

我根本赢不了你。

I can't win against you.

你运气也太好了吧。

You're so lucky.

这明显是心理层面的问题，而且我们说的可是靠扑克赚几百万的人。

And this is definitely a mental game issue, and we're talking about guys that combine millions with poker.

他们可不是那种低中档桌边的玩家。

And so they're not like these low mid stakes players here.

我说的是高注额的玩家。

I'm talking about high stakes players.

对我来说，这真的特别滑稽。

So it's really funny to me.

我真不太明白。

I don't really understand.

我一直以为这是个大问题，直到昨天看了菲尔·赫尔穆特的视频。

And I thought this was a big leak until I saw Phil Hellmuth's video yesterday.

我才意识到，这家伙菲尔·赫尔穆特，简直是心理博弈问题的传奇人物。

And I realized that this guy, Phil Hellmuth, he's the legend of the mental issues games, mental game issues.

传奇，但不是那种好意义上的，对吧？

Legendary, not in a good way, right?

不是好意义上的，没错。

Not in a good way, yes.

我根本没想到人还能这样表现。

I didn't even know it was possible to behave like that.

他是个非常典型的例子。

He's a very interesting example.

为了说明这一点，我想问你个问题。

To get at this, I wanna ask you something.

你之前提到过追求卓越的习惯。

You talked about having habits for excellence.

你有没有想过，情绪失控其实也是一种习惯？

Do you ever think that tilt is a habit?

是的，某种程度上它确实像一种习惯。

Yeah, in a way it might be a habit.

但我觉得情绪失控更多是跟情绪挂钩的，说不清，也许在某种意义上它算是一种习惯吧。

But I think tilt, it comes with your emotions, I don't know, maybe in a way it might be a habit, yes.

对某些玩家来说是这样。

For some players.

或者说是对情绪失控的反应成了习惯，不过说实话，我也不是很确定。

Or maybe the reaction to tilt might be a habit, but I'm not really sure, to be honest.

这确实是个有意思的角度。

It's an interesting part.

过去确实有人跟我讲过，说它就是一种习惯。

I've definitely had some people describe it to me as a habit in the past.

说实话，我很多观点都觉得，背后往往藏着更深层的情绪问题。

You know, obviously, a lot of my beliefs are that there's sort of a deeper emotional issue.

但有时候，即使情绪缓和了，人还是会觉得自己该在聊天框里发点什么。

But I think even sometimes as they resolve, someone can feel that they should be writing in the chat box.

看到烂牌时，该骂两句才对。

They should be swearing when they see a bad beat.

可实际上情绪已经慢慢淡了，有些人却还一直维持着这种反应，停不下来。

And it just it loses its emotion but they sort of some people keep up with this continual reaction even though the emotion starts to dissipate.

所以对某些玩家来说，这确实可能成了习惯，但更严重的问题，通常还是源自更深层的原因。

So I think for some players, it it can be a habit, but usually sort of the more serious issues tend to be coming from us from somewhere a bit deeper.

那今年你对扑克有什么打算？想做些什么？

And for your plans for the year, what are you looking to do in poker this year?

我今年没什么特别宏伟的目标。

My plans this year, well, I haven't any, like, legendary goal.

就是想继续稳扎稳打，冲 Supernova Elite，也可能多打点线下比赛。

I just just wanna keep grinding Supernova Elite, and, I might start playing more live.

我觉得打现场挺有意思的，虽然现场的每小时收益低一点。

And I find live live interesting even though my hourly rate is a bit lower live.

我觉得现场牌局有种特别的地方——打线上时，你做个决定，哪怕没那么有把握，也没关系，下一手马上来了，你接着打，前一手就抛在脑后了。

I think live has some special aspect where, you know, when you're playing online and you you make a play, even though you're not so secure about your play, it doesn't matter because another hand pops up and you're just playing the other hand and you forget the previous hand.

但打现场时，如果你拿不准，你会整整两分钟都在想那手牌。

When you're playing live and you're not sure, you will be thinking about that hand for two minutes.

这其实特别有意思，因为现场牌局能让你清楚看到自己哪里有问题，你会反复琢磨每一个决定，心里更没底，因为你没法靠下一手牌来冲淡之前的失误。

And it's really interesting because live you can really feel where your leaks on the game are because you really think so much thoroughly about the plays that you made and you feel more insecure because you don't have that kind of comfort of seeing other hands and make the right play in other hands.

一旦犯了错，一整天你都会想着它。

If you make a bad play, you're going to think about it all day.

所以我觉得这对提升我的牌技很有帮助。

So I think it's something good to improve my game.

我现在既打现场，也在打Supernova Elite，可能还会参加一些多桌锦标赛，我觉得这才是未来的方向。

And I've been playing live, I'm playing Supernova Elite and I might play some MTTs because I think it's the game of the future.

这确实挺有意思的。

And that's really interesting.

你说过MTT是未来的趋势。

You said MTTs are the game of the future.

你指的是转向线上MTT，还是觉得现场MTT才是扑克的未来？

Is that online that you're thinking of switching, or is that with the live MTTs you're thinking that's the future of the game?

我觉得整体来看，PokerStars推出的Spin & Go新赛制，高额抽水加上高波动，基本上把这类玩家的活跃度给打压没了。

I think overall, like, PokerStars introduced new structures spin and goes, with the high rake structure with high variance, it kinda killed action for seed and go players.

现金桌的氛围也挺冷清的，不光是在Hold'em里是这样。

Cash games, I think they're pretty low action on cash games, at least not only in Holden.

所以MTT才是正道。

So entities must be the way.

我不觉得能有多少人长期在赛季目标里赚到六位数收入。

Like, I don't think many guys will keep making 6 figures for a long time in season goals.

也许今年、明年，或者2018年那些顶尖玩家还能做到。

Maybe in this year, next year, and maybe some of the very best in 2018.

当然，单挑玩家永远有饭吃，但我讲的是普通MTT玩家，过去那么多人都能靠MTT稳定赚六位数，我觉得未来很多年还是会这样。

Of course heads up guys will always do, but I'm talking about general Syngos, and so many people making 6 figures in MTTs in terms of EV, And I think you'll be able to make it for many years to come.

我挺好奇的，你说要去打现场赛，因为我接触的很多线上玩家都觉得现场比赛特别无聊。

I'm kind of interested in you saying, talking about going to play live because my experience with a lot of online players is that they find the live arena to be extremely boring.

是啊，没错。

Yes, Yes.

这对我来说是最大的挑战。

That's very the biggest challenge for me.

有时候真想把牌直接拍桌上，但我还是尽量克制。

Really like flipping on the table sometimes, but I try not to.

我努力培养专注的习惯，因为线上我每小时打一千手是家常便饭，可一到现场，每小时才打二十五手，感觉慢了二十到四十倍。

I try to create some habits of focus because playing 1,000 ants per hour online is standard for me, and when I go and play 25 live, it's like performing 20 40 times slower.

对吧？

Right?

我就在想，我坐这儿干嘛呢？

So I'm like, what am I doing here?

但另一方面，你在线上打牌，知道自己是盈利玩家，就算不是顶尖水平，只要玩够一定手数，赚钱是迟早的事。

But but at the same time, it's like you know, when you're playing online and you know you're a profitable player, you'd know that even though you're not the very best, with a certain amount of sample, you'll make money.

线下打牌也是这样。

And that happens live as well.

但你没法指望有个确定的样本量，那得花上一辈子。

But there will be no certain amount of sample because it would take a lifetime.

所以你的目标就是做到极致，把波动降到最低。

So what your goal is to be the really, really best so you reduce the variance the most.

至少我是这么觉得的。

At least that's what I feel.

所以我打线下的时候，感觉竞争更激烈，即使对手水平普遍差一些，我也想把每手牌都打到最好，避免那种永远无法突破的不确定性。

So when I'm playing live, I feel for me it's more competitive because even though players are worse, even all that, I just wanna play my very best so I don't have that impossible variance of never reaching.

我就想，每手牌都要赢。

Like so I just wanna be like, win every single hand.

我所说的每手牌都赢，意思是每手牌都要打出最佳水平。

What I mean by winning every single hand, play the very best in every single hand.

但打线上时，我有时候就没那么在意了。

While online I don't care so much sometimes.

在真人比赛中，你打的是那种即开即走的形式吗？

And in the live games, are you playing sort of sit and goes live?

你主要是打线下的多桌锦标赛，还是在当地打现金局？

Are you playing live MTTs mainly or are these cash games in your local area?

我参加的是欧洲扑克巡回赛。

I'm playing European poker tour.

哦，原来如此。

Ah, okay.

对的。

Yep.

是的，我主要打主赛事，偶尔也会参加一些附加赛事。

Yeah, I'm playing the main events and, yeah, some eventual some side events.

如果我在主赛事中晋级了，我通常会请几天假，不过主要还是打亚太扑克巡回赛。

I usually just go and take some time off if I pass in the main event, but, yeah, just just APTs.

今年夏天你会来参加世界扑克系列赛吗？

Will you, be joining us for the World Series of Poker this summer?

我觉得不太行。

I don't think so.

不好意思。

I'm sorry.

因为那时候线上比赛的高注额局通常特别好打，毕竟大多数常客都去打世界系列赛了，桌面上都是新手。

Because, you know, online games usually get really good, the high stakes at that time because most of the regulars are in the World Series, so we can really have soft games.

我觉得那个月在线上赚钱能赚得特别多。

And I think you can make so much money online during that month.

所以我就把那个月当成我最拼的时段。

So I I just put that's the month where I work the most.

而且葡萄牙玩家去美国打球，税负也挺高的。

And there there's also a lot of taxes for Portuguese players on US when you go to play there.

不过我还是可能会去一趟。

So I might go on all of this though.

如果你去的话，说不定能亲眼看到菲尔·赫尔穆特现场打牌。

Well, if you go, you might have a chance to see Phil Hellmuth live in action.

这值了。

That would be worth it.

说实话，我真没想到有人能这样行事。

I mean, I I didn't know it was possible to behave like that.

我觉得这事儿太好笑了。

I was it was hilarious for me.

我从来没见过这种场面。

Like, I never saw something like that.

有意思的是，他当时在跟一个线上玩家对局，却一直骂人家是傻子，还疯狂刷屏攻击。

And it's funny because he was playing against an online guy, and he was calling him idiot and names and flaming at him.

结果那玩家反而下了一手特别漂亮的棋。

And the guy made actually a really good play.

不过在当年，这种下法在菲尔·赫尔穆特眼里大概算个大错吧。

But I guess back in the day that was considered a bad play for Phil Hellmuth.

其实，情绪失控本来就是他个人品牌的一部分。

Well, tilting is a big part of his brand as well.

所以我有时候会想，他这些表现到底有多少是真实情绪，又有多少是为了打造个人品牌、吸引媒体故意演出来的？不过那就是另一个话题了。

So I sometimes wonder how much of that is his true emotion and how much of it is his shtick for his brand and to get media, but that's a whole nother ball of wax.

明白了。

Okay.

他经常被邀请上电视节目，对吧？

Gets some invites to TV shows, isn't it?

没错。

So right.

就是这样。

Exactly.

如果你已经建立了这样的名声，发脾气其实也有它的用处。

There's some value in getting angry if you got the reputation.

没错。

Exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

也许一开始那笔交易是出于自然反应，后来你就意识到，这事儿能赚钱。

Maybe the first deal was natural, then you were like, I can make money with this.

然后他就开始故意这么做了。

And then he started doing that on purpose.

我觉得他的这种态度也会让对手感到压力，从而改变对局方式。

And I think it would intimidate some opponents as well into playing differently against him.

肯定有人会因为怕他而不敢做某些操作，这点毫无疑问。

There would definitely be some people who would be uncomfortable making certain plays, I'm sure.

是的。

Yeah.

关于直播，这事儿还挺有意思的。

That sounds also something interesting about live.

在线上，至少我觉得，我根本不在乎别人怎么看、会发生什么。

Online, people, at least what I feel is that I don't really care what happens and what people think on live.

我就想，要是我这么表现出来会怎样？也许我经验还不足，但我觉得直播真的更私人、更真实。

I'm like, what if I show this and what if I, maybe I'm not so experienced so I can talk, but I think live is so much more personal.

所以没错，就像你说的，这些行为都会影响对手。

So yeah, all these type of behaviors influence our opponents like you said.

没错。

Absolutely.

这确实很有道理。

There's definitely something to be said there.

线下游戏能带来一种线上游戏完全没有的额外优势。

The extra edge that can be found live that just isn't there in the online game.

正如你所说，现场的社交压力、个人气场，还有各种读牌和微表情，全都派得上用场。

So as you say the social pressure of the situation, force of personality, obviously there's all of the reads and the tells.

我常跟玩线上扑克的人说，要是觉得打现场太无聊，不如在牌局里找点别的乐子。

One thing I talk to online players about when they talk about the boredom of playing a live game, it's try and find another game within the live game.

别只盯着自己参与的牌，试着给每个对手的每手牌都估算范围。

So put your opponents on ranges in every hand they play rather than just the hands that you're in.

留意所有牌局中的微表情，因为就像你说的，从每小时一千手降到二十五手，你脑子里空出来的时间多得是，很多人发现这招特别管用。

Look for tells throughout all of the hands because as you say, if you've dropped from a thousand hands an hour to 25, you've got a lot of mental capacity you can be playing with at the table and guys have found that really useful.

是的，我完全同意。

Yeah, totally agree with that.

对。

Yes.

在实况游戏中，你能获得的优势种类多得多。

You have so much different type of edge on live game.

确实很不一样。我觉得大多数擅长线上扑克的玩家，理论基础都不错，但一旦打实况，就会发现要学的东西、要抓的细节多太多了。

It's different definitely a different like, I think that most good players online would do well in live in terms of theory, but then when you play live, you will realize that you have so much more variables to learn from and edges to get, I guess.

那如果大家想更多了解你，该去哪里找呢？

So if people wanna find out more about you, where can they go?

你有网站可以推荐吗？

Do you have a website they can look at?

有，我有个博客网站，叫 bettinglifepoker.com，我偶尔会在上面写点东西。

Yeah, I have a blog, website blog, which is bettinglifepoker.com and I write sometimes there.

太好了。

Excellent.

非常感谢Antonia今天来做客，和我们聊了关于线上Supernova Elite刷分的事，很多人都对这个特别感兴趣。

Well, thank you Antonia so much for coming on today and talking about the online Supernova Elite Grind, which is, like, so many people are interested in this.

很多人会想跟着你的做法来试试。

Lots of people will be trying to follow what you've done.

我觉得最重要的是让大伙明白，这其实没什么玄机，就是做决定、肯下苦功而已，这对大家会很有帮助。

And I think just explaining to people that really this is just about making a decision and putting in the hard work more than anything else is gonna be really useful for people out there.

真的很感谢你来参加这个节目。

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

哦，谢谢你们，Elliot和Tricia。

Oh, thank you myself, Elliot and Tricia.

太好了。

Excellent.

再见了。

Cheers.

再见。

Bye bye.