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本·伯南克曾被问及量化宽松的目的时，他告诉所有人：去购买股票吧。
Ben Bernanke famously said when he was asked what's the purpose of QE, he told everyone, go buy equities.
但并不是每个人都能买股票，所以我们最终形成了这种两极分化的经济：要么你是资产持有者，要么你就不是。
Well, not everyone could buy equities, so we we ended up with, like, this this two tier economy where either you were an asset holder or you weren't.
我知道，我把美联储称为不平等的引擎。
You know, I I called the Fed the engine of inequality.
有趣的是，我们一直都在谈论这个。
You know, funny thing on this is keep talking about this.
我的意思是，这几乎是我们节目最关注的内容——无论是嘉宾还是首相问答，都在说这个以债务为基础的体系只会让富人更富、穷人更穷。
I mean, it's pretty much what we focus most of the show on, the guests, the PMQs, that this debt based system will only make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
我们说，这个机制已经出问题了。
We say the mechanics are screwed.
无论你投票给谁都没用。
It doesn't matter who you vote in.
你不可能通过投票把自己从这个体系中解放出来。
You're not voting yourself out of this.
我只是觉得，有这么多人知道这套机制是如何运作的，这真的让人很沮丧。
And I just find it I find it really depressing that there are so many people out there who know how how this works.
他们知道这套机制是如何运行的。
They know the mechanics work.
他们知道这会掏空整个社会。
They know that it's going to hollow out society.
他们知道这会让穷人的生活变得更加艰难。
They know it's making the lives of the poor even harder.
你知道，没人愿意为此做点什么。
You know, no one wants to do anything about it.
本节目由我的主要赞助商Iron——面向下一代重大事物的AI云平台——冠名赞助。
This show is brought to you by my lead sponsor, Iron, the AI cloud for the next big thing.
Iron构建并运营下一代数据中心，提供全部由可再生能源驱动的尖端GPU基础设施。
Iron builds and operates next generation data centers and delivers cutting edge GPU infrastructure all powered by renewable energy.
如果你需要访问可扩展的GPU集群，或者只是好奇谁在为AI的未来提供动力，请访问iron.com了解更多信息，也就是iren.com。
Now if you need access to scalable GPU clusters or are simply curious about who is powering the future of AI, check out iron.com to learn more, which is iren.com.
你好。
Hello.
你好。
Hello.
欢迎来到另一期PMQs。
Welcome to another PMQs.
我是主持人彼得·麦科马克。
I'm your host, Peter McCormack.
我请来了我的儿子、激进派康纳·麦科马克，这又是一个混乱的一周。
I got your boy, the radical, Conor McCormack, with me, and it's been another chaotic week.
发生了许多疯狂的事情。
Loads of crazy stuff is happening.
我们看到特朗普增加了军费预算。
We have seen Trump increase his military budget.
看起来第三次世界大战即将来临，而且可能正在为此做准备。
Looks like World War three is coming and potentially prepping for that.
我们自己的政府正处于彻底的混乱之中。
Our own government is in absolute chaos.
基尔斯塔玛似乎并不清楚自己在做什么，也无法掌控他的政府，而我们还看到了伊朗人的革命。
Kyrstauma doesn't appear to know exactly what he's doing or have control of his government, And we've seen a revolution from the Iranians.
外面发生的事情相当疯狂，但对我来说，这一切都归结为同一件事。
It's pretty wild stuff out there, but it all, for me, is tying back to the same thing.
我们和西蒙·迪克森一起做了一期节目。
We made a show with Simon Dixon.
你们应该去看看。
You should go and watch that.
几天前发布了这期节目，我们讨论了所有关于金钱以及货币体系如何运作的内容。
Came out a few days ago where we talked about all the money and how the money system works.
这一切都归结为同一件事。
All ties back to the same thing.
所以我们接下来要深入探讨这个话题，而且我真的需要谈谈我们的政府。
So we're gonna get into that, and I do I do really need to talk about our government.
我确实需要谈谈基亚·斯塔默和正在发生的事情，因为到处都乱成一团。
I do need to talk about Kia Stahmer and what's going on because it's just chaos everywhere.
没完没了。
Nonstop.
感觉就像每天都在经历混乱。
Feels like day it feels like daily chaos.
他完全一头雾水。
He has not got a scooby.
一头雾水。
A scooby.
他真是怪得不行，老兄。
He's so weird, man.
所以，小时候，康纳，我会看着这些政治家或总理，觉得他们就像某种神一般的人物，是掌控国家的重要人物。
So, like, when I was a kid, Connor, I would look at these politicians or these prime ministers, and I would see them as these, like, I don't know, like, godlike, these important people who ran the country.
但现在我只觉得他们是一群傻瓜。
And now I just look at them as morons.
孩子们。
Children.
孩子们。
Children.
我儿子觉得我们的政客都是孩子。
My boy thinks our politicians are children.
老兄，我根本无法从你身上获得灵感。
Can't be inspired for you, man.
完全不能。
Not at all.
他们都是软弱的个体。
They are weak individuals.
我不觉得他们是领导者。
I do not feel like leaders.
我看着他们，就想不通，你们是怎么做到掌控我们整个国家的？
Like, I look at them and I'm like, how the how have you got to that place where you're governing our entire country?
这是
It's
你知道对我来说这意味着什么吗？
do know what it is for me?
看起来他们把一切都搞错了。
It's it it seems like they get everything wrong.
不仅一切都搞错了，而且他们本可能做对的事情，却又突然改变，或者完全是失控。
Everything wrong and then stuff that they might be getting right, they then switch up on or it's just complete lack of control.
我们待会儿会谈谈其中一些事情。
We we're gonna talk about some of those things.
但对我来说，我想对小泉纯一郎发点牢骚，不过我也想以对他的一点希望结尾，因为我觉得，他最终要么会被视为史上最差的首相，要么就是根本没人记得他。
But for me, I I do wanna have a little rant about Kiyos Toma, but I wanna end on some hope for him because I I I think currently, he's gonna go down as either the worst prime minister ever or, like, people are just not gonna remember him.
这很有趣。
It was funny.
我昨天做了一个采访，有人问我一个问题，他们列出了从撒切尔夫人以来的所有首相，然后问我：你能说出他们每个人一件好事和一件坏事吗？
I was doing an interview yesterday, and somebody, one of the questions they had for me, they listed all the prime ministers back into Thatcher, and they said to me, can you name one good and bad thing they'd done?
关于撒切尔，我想谈谈她如何降低了通货膨胀，恢复了经济信心，而她做的坏事就是征收人头税，这让她丢了职位。
And so I'd like, with Thatcher, I talked about how she reduced inflation, restoring kind of economic confidence, and the bad shit that she did was the poll tax, which cost her a job.
即使是托尼·布莱尔，我确实恨他，我认为他因伊拉克战争和制造这种深层政府而堪称邪恶的化身。
And even with Tony Blair, who I literally hate, I think he's the epitome of evil for the Iraq War and how he created this deep state.
但我还是可以说，你看。
I could still say, well, look.
我们有了《贝尔法斯特协议》。
We had the Good Friday agreement.
他在某种程度上为爱尔兰带来了和平。
He bought kind of peace to Ireland to some extent.
当我想到岸田文雄时，我 literally 想不出任何正面的事——我不是在故意刁难。
And when I got to Kirstjom, I literally could not think I'm not being a dick.
我真的想不出他做过一件好事，你能想到他做过一件好事吗？
I could I could not think of one good can you think of one good thing he's done?
没有。
No.
我想不出他做过一件好事。
I I could not think of one good thing he's done.
也许有一件。
Maybe one one thing.
是什么？
What's
那个？
that?
他制造了这么多麻烦，反而唤醒了足够多的人，让他们意识到：我不再满意了。
Being such a nuisance is woken enough people up to be like, I'm not happy anymore.
他病了，是的。
He's sick yeah.
他是信号。
He's signal.
他确实是信号。
He's certainly signal.
好吧，你看。
Well, look.
不过，我一直在想这件事。
I was thinking about this, though.
他将会被载入史册，成为有史以来最糟糕的首相，甚至可能是最糟糕的之一。
He's gonna go down as the worst prime minister ever, possibly one of the worst.
但实际上，我认为他可以扭转这一局面。
But, actually, I think he can reverse that.
我认为他完全可以成为一位传奇首相，因为我在意，如果你在看的话。
I think he could go down as a total legend of a prime minister because because I care if you're if you're watching.
显然，你并不胜任这份工作。
You're obviously not up to the job.
我不是故意要刻薄，但你确实不太擅长这个。
I don't mean to be a dick, but you you're not very good at this.
而且你知道，我们正处在艰难时期，而BBC还在谈论他们那些无聊的废话，主流媒体则回避了核心议题。
And, you know, we're in really tough times while the BBC go on about whatever crap they go on about and the mainstream media avoids the main topics.
我们面临的问题是，我们处于一个以债务为基础的体系中。
The the problem we have is we are in a debt based system.
我们会背负更多债务。
We're gonna get more in debt.
通货膨胀会加剧。
There's gonna be more inflation.
每个人的生活都将被毁掉。
Everyone's lives are gonna be destroyed.
我们都明白这一点。
We all know this.
我们在节目中已经多次讨论过这个问题，而你无法解决它。
We've talked about it a bunch of times on the show, and you can't fix this.
没有神奇的解药。
There is no magical cure.
我知道你会让外面的人拿出一些统计数据，然后不断发布，比如‘我们缩短了国民医疗服务体系的等待时间’。
I know you'll have people out there come up with some statistics that you'll keep releasing like, oh, we've reduced wait times at the NHS.
但总体来说，你做得一团糟，而且你无法扭转这一局面，因为你的政党不会允许。
But overall, you're doing a terrible job, and you can't reverse this because your party won't allow it.
他们不相信你。
They don't believe in you.
你没有骨气。
You don't have a backbone.
你根本没有领导力，你就是一个一次性纸巾。
You've got no leadership, and you're you're a wet wipe.
但你有一件事。
But you have one thing.
你有一件事可以做。
There's one thing you can do.
就一件事。
There's one thing.
听我说完。
Hear me out.
这就是你要做的。
This is what you do.
你不要问你的顾问，因为他们会说别这么做。
You don't ask your advisers because they'll say don't do this.
但今晚，当你上床后，去你的卧室，拿出你的iPhone，打开反向摄像头，然后直接怒而退出。
But tonight, when you got to bed, go to your bedroom, get your iPhone, put it on reverse camera, and just rage quit.
直接怒而退出。
Just rage quit.
走出来，说：我干不下去了。
Come out and say, I'm done.
我做不到这一点。
I can't do this.
整个系统都烂透了。
The whole system's broken.
这根本不可能。
It's impossible.
我来这里只是为了让拉里·芬克和那些付钱的人保持富有，让精英们开心。
I'm really just here for Larry Fink and the paymasters to keep them rich, keep the elites happy.
我无法解决这个问题。
I cannot fix this.
这个问题根本无法解决。
It's impossible to fix.
我选择怒而退出，就此罢休。
I rage quit and be done.
我向你保证，你会被载入史册，但你不会做到的。
I promise you, you'll go down as a legend, but you're not gonna do it.
绝不可能。
Never.
绝不可能。
Never.
这不会发生。
That's not gonna happen.
你会禁止x。
You're gonna ban x.
不过，对他们来说，这是一周的混乱。
It's been a chaotic week for them, though.
如果你看过查戈斯群岛的事情，那本身就是一个耻辱。
If you've seen there was a Chagos Island thing, which is a disgrace in itself.
那在上议院没通过。
That didn't get through the peers.
又来一次反转，反转先生。
Another u-turn, mister u-turn.
到现在已经有多少次反转了？
How many u-turns have there been now?
你在商业税率上反转了，对农民是这样，对矿工补贴也是这样。
U-turn on the business rates, which you did with the farmers and you did with pit payments.
是矿工补贴吗？
Was it pit payments?
不。
No.
是残疾补贴，没错。
It's disability yeah.
残疾补贴、农民的遗产税。
Disability payments, farmers' inheritance tax.
我认为你会被称为‘反转首相’，但这确实表明你对你的政党或国家毫无掌控力。
I think you're gonna be known as a U-turn prime minister, but it's a real signal that you've got no control over your party or the country.
现在你还想禁止X，伙计？
And now you wanna ban X, man?
得了吧。
Come on.
我们要播放视频吗？
Should we play the video?
你这里有相关的视频。
You got a video on this.
可耻。
Disgraceful.
这令人厌恶，绝不能容忍。
It's disgusting, and it's not to be tolerated.
X必须对此加以控制，Ofcom完全有权采取行动应对此事。
X has got to get a grip of this, and Ofcom have full support to take action in relation to this.
这是错误的。
This is wrong.
这是违法的。
It's unlawful.
我们不会容忍这种行为。
We're not gonna tolerate it.
我要求将所有选项都列入考虑范围。
I've asked for all options to be on the table.
这令人厌恶。
It's disgusting.
X必须整顿好自己，我们会对此采取行动，因为这完全不可容忍。
And x need to get their act together, and we will take action on this because it's simply not tolerable.
所以我们必须在比基尼事件的背景下提及我们自己。
So we we've gotta mention us in light of people Bikini.
比基尼。
Bikini.
是的。
Yeah.
比基尼门事件。
Bikini gate.
好的。
Okay.
我们来谈谈这件事。
Let's talk about this.
好的。
Okay.
首先，我想说的是，有些人不喜欢推特，x。
First of all, first thing I wanna say is that there are some people who don't like Twitter, x.
我讨厌称它为x。
I hate calling it x.
我更喜欢叫它推特，因为埃隆·马斯克接管后，它成了算法驱动的言论自由平台。
I prefer Twitter, since Elon Musk took over because it's it's algorithmic free speech.
我觉得这很公平。
I think that's fair.
这确实是言论自由，但你知道，算法会决定你想看到什么内容，上面还有一些非常残酷和激烈的东西。
It is free speech, but, you know, the algorithm does decide what he wants you to see, and there's some pretty brutal and savage stuff on there.
我认为很多人对此感到不满。
And I think a lot of people were upset about that.
有些人无法接受言论自由，但让我们先明确基本事实。
Some people do not like can't handle free speech, but let's let's just establish the base facts.
言论自由是民主社会中一项基本自由，它保护的不是你喜欢的言论。
Free speech is a fundamental freedom that you want in a democratic society, and it's not for the speech you like.
自由言论总是意味着要捍卫你不喜欢的言论。
It's always to defend the speech you don't like.
因此，你必须接受推特上存在的所有垃圾内容，因为你希望人们能够自由地说出他们想说的任何话。
So you have to accept all the crap that exists on Twitter because you want to be able to have people have the freedom to say whatever they want.
这意味着需要一些调整。
And that means there's a bit of an adjustment.
我认为基亚斯·托马斯的问题在于他并不擅长这一点，对吧？
And I don't think I think the thing about Kias Tomas is he's not very good at it, is he?
他是个独裁者。
He's a dictator.
他不喜欢你自由表达自己的想法。
He does not like you being able to say what you like.
但在英国，X是自由言论吗？
But is x free speech in The UK?
嗯，这是个公正的问题。
Well, yes, a fair question.
我们已经进行了这么多逮捕，而它们似乎都来自X平台的帖子。
We've had all these arrests, and they all seem to be from x posts.
本集由Ledger赞助，Ledger是最值得信赖的比特币硬件钱包。
This episode is brought to you by Ledger, the most trusted Bitcoin hardware wallet.
如果你认真对待保护你的比特币，Ledger就能提供你需要的解决方案。
Now if you're serious about protecting your Bitcoin, Ledger has the solution you need.
他们的硬件钱包让你完全掌控自己的私钥，确保你的比特币免受黑客、网络钓鱼和恶意软件的侵害。
Their hardware wallet gives you complete control over your private keys, ensuring that your Bitcoin stay safe from hacks, phishing, and malware.
我自2017年以来一直是他们的客户。
And I've been a customer of theirs since 2017.
我喜欢这个产品。
Love the product.
我用它来存放我的比特币。
Use it for my Bitcoin.
我还用它配合我的Castle多重签名系统来保护足球俱乐部的比特币。
I use it with my Castle MultiSig for protecting the football club Bitcoin too.
现在，借助 Ledger 精致易用的设备和 Ledger Live 应用，管理你的比特币从未如此安全便捷。
Now with Ledger's sleek, easy to use devices and the Ledger Live app, managing your Bitcoin has never been more secure or convenient.
无论你是比特币的老用户还是新手，Ledger 都能让你轻松保护资产。
And whether you're a long time holder or new to the world of Bitcoin, Ledger makes it simple to keep your assets protected.
所以，如果你想了解更多，请前往 ledger.com，今天就为你的比特币做好安全防护。
So if you wanna find out more, please do head over to ledger.com and secure your Bitcoin today.
那就是 ledger.com，也就是 ledger.com。
That is ledger.com, which is ledger.com.
那就是 ledger.com。
That is ledger.com.
嗯。
Yeah.
言论自由真正指的是政府能否阻止你说某些话？
And then free speech really is about can the government stop you saying things?
所以我认为，当 Twitter 文件事件出现时，背景是政府与 Twitter 之间存在合作封锁账户的关系。
So I think I think the background to this when it came up with the Twitter files whereby there was a relationship between the government and Twitter to block accounts.
我们曾让特朗普被推特封禁。
We had Trump banned from Twitter.
我认为，嗯，这并不完美地保障了言论自由。
And I think and, yeah, it isn't perfect for free speech.
我认为，政府对此是有回应的。
I think there are responses to government.
但总体而言，我们正在发现并看到许多以前不知道的事情。
But, generally, we are we're getting to find out and see a lot of things on there that we didn't know.
我的意思是，就在过去一周，那个一直涉及明尼苏达收容中心的人才得以现身，在YouTube和X上发布视频并谈论此事。
I mean, only over the last week that dude who was doing all the Minnesota leering centers was able to come out, release videos on YouTube and x and talk about it.
我们还看到了其他一些非常重要的事情，比如某个政治人物出来，基尔斯塔默基本上站出来说了一些胡话。
And we we get these other really important things whereby some political leader comes out, a Kirstamer, essentially come out and they say some bullshit.
那完全是谎言，但他们被社区标记了。
That's a complete lie, and they get community noted.
我认为基尔斯塔默被社区标记了23次吗？
I think is it 23 times Kirstam has been community noted?
我认为这是民主中非常有用的一部分，因为我们过去总是被这些人灌输大量谎言和胡言乱语，而现在他们再也无法逍遥法外了。
And I think that's a really useful part of democracy when because we used to be fed so many lies, so much bullshit from these people that actually, they can't get away with it.
社区标注让我们能够看清他们何时在撒谎。
The community know allows us to see when they're lying.
我认为即使你去看看马斯克的推特，他的最后一条推文也有社区标注。
I think even if you go and kiss Thomas' Twitter, think his last tweet has a community dote on it.
他有一阵子没发推了。
He hasn't tweeted in a while.
所以推特对这类事情非常重要。
And so Twitter's been really important for stuff like that.
这真的很有趣。
And it's really funny.
但这件事真正让我困扰的是，我不知道。
The thing that really bothers me about this is I don't know.
比基尼门事件，感觉好像是大约一周前开始的。
Bikini Gate, it feels like it started about a week ago.
你可以上去，然后有人发了一张照片。
It's like, you can go on and somebody posts a picture.
比如说，我发一张我的手机的照片。
Say I post a picture of my my cell phone.
不行。
Can't no.
也许不是康纳。
Maybe not Connor.
那太奇怪了。
That'd be weird.
但别人会说，把皮特穿上比基尼。
But somebody somebody else would say, put Pete in a bikini.
上面有一张我和汤米·罗宾逊穿着比基尼的照片。
There's there's a there's one up there of me and Tommy Robinson in bikinis.
我笑了。
I laughed.
我觉得这挺搞笑的。
I thought it was funny.
但人们经常对那些并不想要这种事的女性这么做。
But people were doing it quite regularly to women who didn't really want it.
而且我认为还存在一些指控，比如有人把儿童的照片P成穿泳装的样子。
And so and I think there's also some accusations of, like, there were child photos existing where people are dressing.
我想我们都同意，这不好。
And I think we can agree, like, that's not good.
我们不希望这样。
We don't want that.
我的意思是，埃隆·马斯克曾出来表示，任何做这种事的人，他都会追查到底并予以处理。
Well, I mean, Elon Musk came out and said anyone that was doing that, he would get to the bottom of and they would be dealt with.
是的。
Yeah.
但问题归结为，责任到底在哪里？
But it comes down to what is the what is the responsibility?
是工具的问题，还是使用工具的人的问题？
Is it the tool or the user of the tool?
如果你禁止了这个工具，禁止了X，你仍然可以在别处创建这些图像。
If you ban the tool, if you ban x, you still can create these images elsewhere.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
我认为这与煽动暴力有关。
And I think that sort of links to incitement to violence.
该怪谁呢？
Who's that blame?
是那个让你去开枪杀人的人，还是实际开枪的人？
The person that told you to go shoot someone, the person that actually shot him.
界限在哪里？
Where's the bar sit?
嗯。
Yeah.
嗯。
Yeah.
我只是觉得，这件事真正让我在意的是他们回应的速度。
And I I just think the thing that really gets me about this one is the speed at which they've replied.
看。
Look.
我们知道。
We know.
看。
Look.
我们知道，每当政府对某事不满时，就会从总部下发指令，所有议员都会抱怨。
We know whenever the government's pissed off about something, they send the messages down from HQ to all the MPs, and they all whinge about it.
所以所有工党议员都一致抱怨，这意味着纳林达会抱怨，欧文·琼斯也会抱怨，左翼的每个人都会纷纷抱怨。
So all the labor MPs have all in a chorus been whinging about it, which means Narinda's gonna whinge about it, and Owen Jones is probably gonna whinge about it, and everybody in the left is just gonna gonna whinge about it.
然后右翼的每个人都会以言论自由为由为它辩护，双方都固守自己的立场。
And then everyone in the right is gonna defend it under free speech, and everyone entrenches their position.
但从投诉到涉及通信管理局，再到根据《在线安全法》制定条件和规则，政府的反应速度之快，感觉像是几天内就完成了。
But the speed of response from the government from complaint to involving Ofcom to setting the conditions and the rules under under the online safety act, it feels like it happened in in days.
是的。
Yeah.
他们对强奸团伙却没这么快采取行动。
They didn't do this with rape gangs.
你知道，当全国成千上万的年轻女孩被性侵团伙侵害时，基思马尔甚至都不愿意展开调查。
You know, when thousands or tens of thousands of young girls were being raped across the country by grooming gangs, Kistarmer even like, he he he didn't even want to do an inquiry.
他推迟了这件事。
He put it off.
他一再拖延。
He delayed it.
这就让人想不通了，为什么政府会——抱歉。
And it's like, why would the government why sorry.
为什么工党政府会特意推迟对强奸团伙的调查，但一遇到比基尼门事件，就立刻要让通信管理局介入并立即开始封禁内容？
Why, specifically, would a labor government want to delay inquiries into rape gangs, but all of a sudden, bikini gate means they have to instantly involve Ofcom and instantly start banning things.
你看。
And look.
这很清楚。
It's pretty clear.
我不傻。
I'm not stupid.
对于强奸团伙，他们不想暴露一个投票群体，因为这个投票群体在人口统计上是穆斯林。
With the rape gangs, they didn't want to expose a vote voting block because that voting block was demographically Islam.
他们是穆斯林。
It was Muslims.
我们都明白。
And we know that.
我们知道这是工党的一大投票群体，他们担心人们会怎么说，以及是否会被视为种族歧视。
We know it's a large voting block for labor, and they're worried about what people would say and whether they'd be considered racist.
我们知道他们这么做的原因。
We know we know why they did it.
但接着你去看X平台，他们在那儿表现得很差，每次发推都会被社区标注或被刷屏。
But then you go to x, which is a platform that they're terrible at, that every time they get every time they tweet, they get either community noted or get ratioed.
我想我已经刷屏了基辅三次了。
I think I've ratioed Kiev three times now.
是的。
Yeah.
你乐在其中。
You are enjoying that.
批驳工党议员太容易了，因为他们全是骗子，但我们知道为什么。
It's so easy to ratio Labour Party MPs because they're such liars, but we know why.
这是一个不断侵犯我们公民自由的政府。
And this is a government which has continually attacked our civil liberties.
还不只是这样。
It's not just that.
现在兰米正在做他的小巡回，因为他想废除陪审团审判。
It's Lammy doing his little tour now because he wants to get rid of jury trials.
这是数字身份。
It's digital IDs.
这是他们所做过的每一项专制举措，而且
It's every single authoritarian move they've made, and
他们不会停止。
They're not stopping.
他们不会停止，你看。
They're not stopping and look.
但如果你不同意，就会觉得：我讨厌这个。
But if you disagree with it, it's like, I hate this.
如果你甚至想对此发声，你就是个叛徒。
If if if you want to even speak up against this, you're an aunts.
是的。
Yeah.
你是个不。
You're an No.
我今天早上刚有。
I had it this morning.
显然是个阿姨。
Apparently an aunt.
嗯。
Yeah.
我想说的是，就是不行。
I wanted to it's just no.
不行。
No.
看。
Look.
如果你能制定法律来界定什么是不可接受的行为，比如给儿童脱衣、骚扰，然后你可以起诉个人，但他们却想起诉平台。
If you can you can create the law for what is unacceptable, undressing children, harassment, and then you can prosecute the individual, But they wanna prosecute the platform.
他们想把责任推给平台，因为他们真的不希望人们使用X。
They wanna put it onto the platform because they really don't want people using x.
而且你看，这会引发连锁反应。
And look, it's a slippery slope.
我认为每个人都同意。
I think everyone can agree.
给儿童拍照片，让他们穿比基尼，这太糟糕了。
Getting pictures of children, putting them in bikinis is terrible.
是的。
Yeah.
我们同意这一点。
We agree with that.
百分之百同意。
100%.
如果你是个理智的
If you are a sane
这很奇怪。
It's weird.
是的。
Yes.
就像速度一样。
Same as with speed.
如果你到处对少数族裔搞种族歧视，那你就是个混蛋。
If you go around being racist to minorities, you're a prick.
没错。
Yeah.
你仍然应该被允许这么做，让公众来决定。
You should still be allowed to do it and let the public decide.
你想要社会后果吗？
You want social consequences?
我想要社会后果，因为这是一条非常危险的滑坡。
I want social consequences because it's such a slippery slope.
如果他们禁止这个，那接下来他们会禁止什么？
If they ban this, then what are they gonna ban next?
播客？
Podcasts?
我现在为你感到无比自豪。
I'm so proud of you right now.
这就像是我的底线，因为我觉得你很快就会陷入完全的控制，这真的让我害怕。
It's it's like, this is where my line is because I think you get very quickly into complete control, which have fucking terrifies me.
我们目前就是这样，这很可悲，这是波洛克们的歇斯底里，波洛克们。
Well, we have that at the moment, and this is this is a sad thing, is that and this is the hysteria of of the Pollocks, the Pollocks.
现在政治的歇斯底里就在于，这并不是基尔本人的问题，我的意思是，他是个失败者。
This is the hysteria of the politics right now, is that it's not like Keir himself is I mean, he is a loser.
不是这个问题。
It's not that.
他实际上是在揭露这个系统是如何崩溃的。
He is actually exposing how the system is breaking.
对吧？
Right?
这一切都是源于正在崩溃的债务型体系。
This is all downstream from the debt based system, which is breaking.
当政府失去控制时，他们会试图加强控制。
And when a government is losing control, they try to increase controls.
我的意思是，正在发生什么其实很明显，但问题在于，当我们反抗这种状况时，我们反抗的不只是政府。
I mean, it's pretty obvious what's happening, but the the the problem is is when we revolt against this, we're not just revolting against the government.
我们还得反抗那些愿意投票支持这种做法的公众，他们听从政府的指令，因为他们也是问题的一部分。
We have to revolt against the public who wanna vote for this, who are doing the bidding of the government because they're part of the problem as well.
这又回到了我说的，你可以回溯过去。
And this comes back to I mean, you you can go back.
我刚刚想到了那个托尼·本的视频。
I was thinking of that Tony Ben video.
这周有人在推特上发布了这个视频。
Somebody put it up on Twitter this week.
我们应该播放这段，因为这一切都是源于我们把决策权交给了少数我们并不了解的人——他们是谁、代表什么，其实我们是知道的。
We should play it because this is this is all downstream from when we've put I mean, this is the off com point, really, that we are putting the decision into the hands of a few people who we don't know who they are, what they stand for Well, we do.
其实我们知道。
While we do.
我们最近刚看到过。
We saw it recently.
一点都不多元化。
Not very diverse.
我的意思是，你
I mean, you
我不认为你会在这里表现出厌女倾向。
I don't think you'll be a misogynistic here.
不会。
No.
我不是这样的人。
I'm not.
我只是在想，他们怎么能代表整个英国人口给出一个好意见呢？
I'm just saying how can they give a good opinion for the entire population of The UK?
嗯，这个，我
Well, the the I
我觉得这又反转了。
think this is DI reversed again.
这太蠢了。
It's stupid.
嗯，我认为这个问题的关键是它又回到了原点。
Well, I think the thing on this is it's it goes back.
我们要播放这段视频。
We're gonna play this play the clip.
你拿到的是哪一部分？
What part have you got?
你从哪儿弄到的？
Where did you get it from?
你为谁的利益在行使权力？
In whose interest you exercising?
你向谁负责，我们如何才能摆脱你？
To whom you're accountable, and how can we get rid of you?
如果你无法摆脱统治你的人，那你生活的就不是民主制度。
And if you can't get rid of the people who govern you, you don't live in a democratic system.
这就是关于通信管理局的问题。
And this this is the thing about Ofcom.
通信管理局并不是真正民主的。
Ofcom is not really democratic.
我知道有些人会说，哦，我们投票选了政府。
And I know some people argue, oh, we voted for the government.
他们管理通信管理局，但他们并没有。
They manage offcom, but they don't.
责任被委托给了这些机构，这才是关键。
This is where responsibility is delegated to these these institutions.
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照片出来了。
The photo came out.
照片里是五六个看起来中产阶级的白人女性，我对此没什么意见。
It was five or six kind of middle class looking white women, and I've got nothing against.
嗯。
Yeah.
我对这些人没什么意见。
I got nothing against these.
我不认识他们。
I I don't know them.
他们可能非常有才华，但我怀疑我在政治上可能和他们非常不同。
They might be very talented, but my suspicion is that, politically, I may be very different from them.
百分之百。
100%.
我是个自由意志主义保守派。
I'm a libertarian conservative.
他们的机构是一个审查媒体的机构。
Mean, their institution is one which censors media.
是的。
Yeah.
所以
So
他们的职责是控制你被允许相信、思考和听到的内容。
The job is to control what you're allowed to believe and think and hear.
他们想决定成年人可以听到什么。
They want to decide what adults are allowed to hear.
但你看。
But so look.
但这又回到了那个观点。
But it goes back to the point.
这并不重要。
It doesn't matter.
听好了。
Listen.
他们可能都是疯狂的自由主义者。
They might all be crazy libertarians.
他们也许是。
They could be.
但关键是，我们不知道他们是谁。
Would you but the point is we don't know who they are.
我们也没投票选他们。
And we didn't vote them.
我们没投票选他们。
We didn't vote for them.
我们不知道他们是谁。
We don't know who they are.
我们不知道他们代表谁的利益。
We don't know whose interests they're serving.
那我们为什么要相信呢？
And so why why should we trust?
我的意思是，通信管理局根本就应该解散。
I mean, Ofcom just needs to go.
幸运的是，他们还没来找播客的麻烦。
Luckily, they haven't come for the podcast yet.
来啊，通信管理局，冲我来吧。
Come come at me, Ofcom.
所以，我真的觉得，如果你看看这个，我们以前就讨论过这个信号，对吧？一切都在崩溃。
And so I really just think that if you look at this, we've we've talked about the signal before, right, that everything is breaking.
这很清楚。
That's pretty clear.
你同意吗？
You agree?
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yes.
一切都在崩溃。
Everything is breaking.
我们之所以有混乱的政府，是因为全球舞台上也一片混乱。
The the reason we have a chaotic government but we've got chaos on the global world stage.
我的意思是，如果你看看伊朗正在发生什么，其实应该去看看格拉德斯坦的推特。
I mean, if you look at what's happening in Iran, you should go and look at Gladstein's Twitter, actually.
他说了类似‘我不知道’这样的话。
He says something like I don't know.
我的数字可能不对，但货币已经几乎崩溃到归零。
I have the numbers wrong, but the currency has collapsed to essentially zero.
以美元计算，它已经几乎崩溃到归零。
If you measure it in dollar terms, it's essentially collapsed to zero.
全球动荡和国内动荡正发生在这种完全彻底崩溃的债务驱动体系中。
And the global chaos and the domestic chaos is happening in this desk debt based system that's that's completely and utterly broken.
我认为我们在这里看到了症状。
And I think we see the symptoms here.
对吧？
Right?
我不是说基尔斯贾玛应该走人。
It's not that it's like we I I mean, think Kirstjama should go.
我现在就想把他撤了，但谁来接替他呢？
I'd get rid of him now, but who's gonna replace him?
他的价值下跌了42%。
He's had a 42% drop in value.
在什么时间段？
In what period?
一个月内。
In a month.
但你看，一切都在崩溃。
But look, everything is breaking.
那么，我们知道政治家的角色是赢得权力、维持权力，政治家们会怎么做呢？
And so what do politicians we know the role of a politician is to win power, maintain power.
在一个正在崩溃的体系中，他们试图做什么？
And so on a system that's breaking, what are they trying to do?
他们会怎么做？
What will they do?
他们会关闭护栏，因为他们试图维持对权力的掌控。
They're gonna close the guardrails because they're trying to maintain that grip on power.
但我们已经看到了改革的兴起。
But we've seen that rising reform.
我们看到了绿色力量的崛起，这并不是对某个新政党的支持，我认为这其实是对体制的抗议，想想看。
We've seen the rising green, and that is not a vote for a new party that actually I think these are a vote against the system because well, think about it like this.
我们一直有保守派、工党和工党。
We've had conservative labor and labor
他们认为自己可以投出对体制的反对票。
the way they think they can vote against the system.
是的。
Yes.
但事实上，这只不过是投票支持系统中的另一部分。
But really, it's just voting for another part of the system.
是的。
Yes.
抱歉，孩子们，得跟你们说这个。
Sorry to tell you this, kids.
如果我们选出一个改革派政府或绿党政府，也不会有任何改变。
It's nothing's gonna change if we get a reformed government or we get a green party government.
颜色会变。
Color does.
颜色会变，是的。
The color changes Yeah.
而且人也会变。
And the people change.
如果你改革了，也不是所有人都是如此。
It's not not all of them if you're reformed.
确实。
True.
还是那些人。
It's the same people.
但我认为这是对体制的抗议，因为我觉得对大多数人来说，他们会想：你有什么选择？
But I think it's a vote against the system because I I think for most people, it's like, what options you got?
你对持续的失败、腐败、被欺骗、税收上涨、不得不接受更少、期望更低、一切变得越来越贵感到厌倦。
You're so sick of constant failure, corruption, being lied to, taxes going up, you're having to accept less and expect less, everything getting more expensive.
你生活在一个通货膨胀的环境中，却面对着一个像小丑秀一样的政府。
You're like this inflationary environment that you're having to live through with a clown show of a government.
你会想：我能做什么？
You're like, well, what can I do?
我的选择是什么？
What are my options?
是的。
Yeah.
有些人离开了这个国家。
Some people leave the country.
我明白这是一种选择，但你真正的另一个选择就是把他们投票赶下台。
I I I get that's an option, but your only other option really is to vote it out.
但如果这个系统的机制已经自我崩溃了，你到底是在投给谁呢？
But if the mechanics of the system have broke itself, what are you really voting for?
你是在投票选一个新管理者来继续管理衰退。
You're voting for I I guess you're voting for a new manager of decline.
就是这样。
That's it.
没错。
Yep.
另一个会继续管理衰退的人。
Somebody else who's gonna manage decline.
一份美好的宣言会出台，许下诸多承诺，但他们无法兑现，因为系统本身及其激励机制决定了你只能管理衰退。
A lovely manifesto will come out with all these promises, and they won't be able to deliver it because the system itself and the incentives of the system are such that all you can do is manage decline.
所以，是的，这就是我们所面对的现实。
So, yeah, this is the this is the reality of what we're dealing with.
我会建议任何听这段话的人，如果你觉得，‘是啊，皮特。’
And I I would advise anyone listening to this who's like, yeah, Pete.
你只是个在网上疯狂发泄的YouTube博主。
You're just like some crazy ranting online YouTube guy.
听着，你可以做两件事。
Like, go and watch well, you can do two things.
你可以环顾四周，看到一切都在变得更贵，一切都在崩溃，但去观看我们与西蒙·迪克森的访谈吧。
You can look around you and see everything's getting more expensive and everything's breaking, but go and watch the interview we did with Simon Dixon.
那是几天前做的。
It's had a few days ago.
他把一切都解释清楚了。
He explained it all.
去看看那个塔克的采访。
Go and watch that Tucker interview.
那个家伙是谁？
What was that guy?
那真是太冷酷了。
That was so cold.
你知道吗？你有没有看到关于X在其他哪些地方被禁的事？
Do you know did you see the thing about where else x is banned?
没有。
No.
中国、伊朗、土库曼斯坦、朝鲜、缅甸、俄罗斯、巴基斯坦、委内瑞拉。
China, Iran, Turkmenistan, North Korea, Myanmar, Russia, Pakistan, Venezuela.
我的意思是，我认为英国也正好符合这个名单。
I mean, I think The UK fits nicely within that list
目前。
at the moment.
目前。
Currently.
是的。
Yeah.
这太疯狂了。
That's wild.
我不认为他们会得逞。
I don't think I don't think they will get away with that.
他们不会得逞的。
They won't.
他们不会得逞的。
They won't get away with that.
但接着你说这是滑坡效应。
But then you say that it's the slippery slope.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，如果设定是，你知道的，你必须禁止，因为我认为他们不想起诉个人的原因是因为那太简单了。
Like, what if what if the setup is, you know, you have to ban because I think the reason they don't wanna prosecute the individual because that's the easy thing.
对吧？
Right?
如果他们把责任推给个人，法律就是你不能给小孩脱衣服，也不能用X来脱衣和骚扰他人。
If they put the responsibility on the individual, the law is you cannot undress kids and you cannot undress and harass people using x.
如果你这么做了，就会像发推文一样被起诉。
If you will, you'll be prosecuted like a tweet.
这事儿做起来太简单了。
That's a very easy thing to do.
你来制定法律吧，康纳。
You create the law, Conner.
你脱衣服
You undress
对。
Yeah.
但这需要大量人力。
But it takes a lot of manpower.
你得一一筛选所有那些甜点，伙计。
You gotta sift through all the sweets, mate.
不。
No.
好好想想。
Think about it.
无论如何，他们都得这么做，而且人们可以举报他们。
Well, they're gonna have to do that anyway, and people will be able to report them.
你知道，我们很快就会有第一次逮捕。
And you know we're gonna get that first arrest.
比如，在接下来几周内，就会有人被敲门。
Like, within the next couple of weeks, someone's gonna get a knock on the door.
八辆警车会赶到现场。
Eight police cars are gonna turn up.
特警队。
SWAT team.
对，警察。
Right, police.
然后因为一些我不知道的原因，去逮捕一个65岁的老人。
And then gonna arrest a 65 year old man because he's I don't know.
但说实话，我对这件事并不生气。
But honestly, I'm not angry about that.
嗯，没错。
Well, no.
但我很生气。
But I am.
不。
No.
这是不理智的行为。
It's nonsy behavior.
嗯，不是。
Well, no.
要看他做了什么。
Depends what he's done.
这取决于他做了什么。
It depends what he's done.
但我的意思是
But what I'm saying
就是说，没错。
is it's like, yes.
在X平台上给小孩脱衣服的人，统统关进监狱。
Anyone undressing kids on x, chuck them in prison.
是的。
Yeah.
别误会。
Don't get me wrong.
我不是在说那个，但这是滑坡效应。
I'm not talking about that, but it's the slippery slope.
那些是我们看到过推文的情况，其实也没那么严重，但人们却被逮捕了。
It's the ones where we've seen the tweets, which aren't really that bad and people are being arrested.
我们前几天看到有人因为喂鸽子而被逮捕了。
We saw somebody arrested the other day for feeding pigeons.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
当然。
Of course.
我不喜欢禁止这种行为的想法，但如果他们要上门找那些在网上给小孩脱衣服的人，我倒是支持。
And I don't I don't like the idea of banning it, but if they're gonna knock up on people's doors who've been undressing kids online, I'm cool with that.
是的。
Yeah.
我不是。
I'm not.
我们不需要进行那样的争论。
We don't need to have that fight, that argument.
但这是最简单的一个，问题在于它涉及到了网络上对人的性化。
But it's that's the easy one, but it's where it gets to the the it's like the sexualization of people online.
比如，假设基yo萨马下周发了条推文，我说把基拉裹上尿布。
So for example, say, I don't know, say, Kiyosama tweet something next week, and I say, put Kiera in a nappy.
这违法了吗？
Does is that broken the law?
没有。
No.
但也许违法了，因为这让基yo萨马丢脸了。
Well, maybe it has because it's embarrassed Kiyosama.
也许我会被上门敲门。
Maybe I get a knock at the door.
也许我会被逮捕。
Maybe I get arrested.
我理解你的观点，但我只会对儿童加以限制。
I I understand your point, but I would I would limit on on kids.
但重点是他们会做什么。
But the point is what they're going to do.
而他们要做的，是把法律施加在平台上，而不是针对个人。
And what they're going to do is they're gonna set the law on the platform, and they're not gonna get set the law against the individual.
为什么？
Why?
所以这是以埃隆·马斯克为借口。
So pretext Elon Musk.
不。
No.
这并不是以禁止为借口来封禁平台。
It's not that there it's a pretext to ban in the ban in the platform.
想一想。
Think about it.
但他们不喜欢埃隆·马斯克，因为他把言论自由或某种形式的言论自由带入了我们这个并不自由的言论体系。
But they don't like Elon Musk because he's brought free speech or a version of it into our not so free speech system.
当然。
Sure.
但埃隆关注的是个人。
But Elon is about the individual.
当然。
Sure.
他们不喜欢他。
They don't like him.
但这个平台日复一日地让劳动节蒙羞。
But but the platform embarrass es labor day in, day out.
他们无法传达自己的观点而不受羞辱。
They cannot get their messages out without being humiliated.
所以目前这对工党来说是净负面影响。
So it's it's a net negative for the labor party right now.
所以如果你想消除这种现象，如果你把焦点放在个人身上，他们就得逮捕大量个人。
So if you want that gone, if you make it about the individual, they've got to arrest lots of individuals.
这个平台仍然存在。
The platform still exists.
他们仍然不能在不使用社区笔记的情况下发推。
They still can't tweet without community notes.
他们发推时总会被大量回复嘲讽。
They can't tweet without being ratioed.
但如果他们把焦点放在平台本身上，只要有人曝光安妮·怀特克或安吉拉·雷纳的丑闻，哦，X就失败了。
But if they make it about the platform, the minute somebody undresses Anne Whitacre or Angela Rayner, oh, well, x has failed.
我们必须封禁你，直到你这么做为止。
We're gonna have to ban you until you do.
然后突然间，我们在英国就没了这个平台。
And then suddenly, we don't have that platform here in The UK.
是的。
Yeah.
但那样的话，我们就得封禁谷歌、ChatGPT。
But then we've got to ban Google, chat GBT.
他们在那儿被羞辱了吗？
Are they being embarrassed there?
嗯，情况一样。
Well, the same thing.
是的。
Yeah.
但我觉得你没理解我想表达的重点，我认为这是英国通过X来禁止言论自由的借口，你看。
But I think what you're missing the point I'm trying to make is I think this is a pretext to ban free speech in The UK via Rx because it's and look.
如果人们转而使用Facebook，他们也会这么做，但我认为这只是一个清除言论的借口。
If people then start to go to Facebook, they'll do the same, but I think it's a pretext to get rid of speech.
最疯狂的是，这只会让人们更加讨厌他们。
It's not gonna the crazy the crazy thing about this is, like, it's only gonna make people hate them more.
当然。
Of course.
我的意思是，他们已经在推迟选举了，因为他们知道自己会输掉选举，并且会被彻底击败。
I mean, they're already delaying elections because they know they're going to lose those elections and get absolutely eviscerated in
选举。
the elections.
我认为他们已经意识到无法翻身了，现在只是想在剩下的时间里尽可能多地做点事。
I think they're at the point where they realize there's no coming back, and they're just trying to do as much as they can with the time they've got left.
我的意思是，如果你看看那些预测，只有四个席位。
Well, what I mean, if you look at those projections, four seats.
是的。
Yep.
还是四个吗？
Is it still four?
感觉他们是在轰轰烈烈地收场。
It feels like they're just they're going out with a bang.
我想我这周看到有报道说，一位工党议员说，如果他们推行某项政策——我记不清是哪一项了，是他们那些愚蠢的政策之一。
I I think I read this week that one Labour MP said if they progress with one policy I can't remember which one it was, one of their stupid policies.
我觉得是陪审团审判。
I think it's jury trials.
他说，如果他们这么做，他就会触发一次补选。
He said if they do that, he'll trigger a by election.
这可不是普通的后座议员投票，而是工党议员本人这么说。
Like, this is a Labour MP who's not it's not just a backbench vote.
他明确表示：如果你们要废除陪审团审判，我就要发起一次补选。
He's literally saying, if you proceed to get rid of jury trials, I'm gonna trigger a by election.
这意味着这位议员本质上是在以身殉职。
And what that means is that guy is essentially falling on his sword.
这是一位工党议员以身殉职，他说：我知道我会输掉这场补选，但你们会失去一名议员。
That's a labor MP falling on his sword saying, I know I'll lose that by election, but you're gonna lose an MP.
我不知道他们的多数席位有多少，但有多少人愿意这样以身殉职呢？
And I don't know what their majority is, but how many could fall on their swords?
他们为什么这么挣扎？
Why are they struggling so much?
我的意思是，这简直太丢人了。
I mean because this is an embarrassing amount.
至少你希望他们能想出某种办法坚持下去。
Like, at least you would hope they've they've got a way of somehow just holding on.
但一切都感觉像是
But everything feels like it's
挣扎。
struggle.
看吧。
Look.
如果我们回到托尼·布莱尔时期，我不是托尼。
If we go back to Tony Blair like, I'm not a Tony.
我想我已经说得很清楚了。
I think I've made it clear.
对吧？
Right?
我非常憎恨那个人，而且我不同意他的许多政策。
I hate that man with a passion, and I disagree with a lot of his policies.
他基本上创造了这种深层次的困境。
He created the deep stay pretty much.
我的意思是，即使他没有创造它，他也加速了它的增长，并带领我们发动了对伊拉克的非法战争。
I mean, if he didn't create it, he accelerated its growth, and he led us into an illegal war in Iraq.
但当时国家感觉还不错。
But the country felt good at the time.
比如，经济状况很好。
Like, the economy was good.
是的。
Yeah.
一切都感觉很好。
Everything felt good.
我认为衰退从撒切尔时代就开始了，但我觉得布莱尔上台后加速了这一趋势。
I think the decline started since Thatcher, but I think it's been accelerated since Blair.
这就是一种从生存危机转向另一个生存危机的翻转。
And it's that x it's like that flip from existential crisis to existential crisis.
左派把右派视为生存危机，而右派则把左派视为生存危机。
The left see the right as an existential crisis, and the right sees the left as an existential crisis.
工党实在太糟糕了。
Labor are so so bad.
工党糟糕到这种地步，基亚·达默如此糟糕，以至于扎克·波兰斯基现在都被一些选民视为可信的替代人选。
This is how bad labor this is how bad Kias Dahmer is that Zach Polanski is now considered by some voters to be a credible alternative.
有些人真的认为扎克·波兰斯基应该成为这个国家的首相。
Zach Polansky is some people actually think he should be prime minister of this country.
我的意思是，他真是个傻瓜。
I mean, he he he's a moron.
根本没法执政。
Can't run.
不。
No.
但而且，认真说吧，我们得现实一点。
But but also, like, look, like, let's be serious.
他根本不理解基本的经济学。
He doesn't understand basic economics.
他完全不懂。
He doesn't understand.
当他谈论其他政治观点时，有人问他谁是他的榜样，结果他说是真正的马克思主义者。
When he was on the rest of his politics, they asked him who his inspiration was, and it was literal Marxist.
但工党太糟糕了，以至于有人觉得扎克·波兰斯基应该当首相。
But Labour is so bad that they that people think Zach Polanski should be prime minister.
抱歉，但首相是个非常严肃的职位。
I'm sorry, but, like, the prime minister is a very serious job.
对吧？
Right?
这不适合戏剧研究专业的毕业生。
It is not for a theater studies graduate.
这也不适合一个善良的人。
It's not for a a be kind guy.
嘘声驯服者。
Boop whisperer.
这也不适合乳头驯服者。
It's not for a tit whisperer.
对不起，扎克。
Sorry, Zach.
但你根本不会提供这个。
But you're just not gonna offer this.
这适合一个严肃的人。
It's like for a serious person.
即使在左派内部，我也不是在专门针对左派。
And even on the left, like, this isn't me just picking on the left.
一个像威廉·克拉斯顿那样的严肃人物，对我来说会是一个可信的角色。
A serious person like a William Cluston would be a, for me, a credible character.
也会同样感到挣扎。
Would also struggle as well.
我的意思是，不管谁掌权，无论是特朗普还是基亚，无论左右，一切看起来都像彻底崩溃。
Like like this, I'm trying to get to is like everything, no matter who's in power, if it's Trump or Kia, right or left, everything just seems like a complete meltdown.
存在主义的，就像你所说的那样。
Existential, existential, like you said.
是的。
Yeah.
但这是因为债务负担越来越大。
But but it's because the the debt pile gets bigger.
政府有能力支付其想要支付的开支变得越来越困难。
The ability for the government to be able to pay for the things that it wants to pay for gets harder.
所以他们有各自的手段，那就是印钞或增加税收。
So they have their their levers, which is create money or tax people more.
多征税会让公众不满。
Tax people more pisses off the public.
印钞会导致通货膨胀，无论他们做什么，每个人都会被压得更惨。
Create money money creation generates the inflation, Whatever and happens, whatever they do, everyone just gets squeezed more.
所以所以
And So so
那他们能做什么呢？
so what can they do?
我的意思是，这是一个更大的问题。
I mean, that's that's a that's a bigger question.
我的意思是，我不会投任何这些烂摊子的票。
I mean, I wouldn't vote for any of this shit.
这就是我不投票的原因。
This is why I don't vote.
我觉得你看。
And I think that look.
有趣的是，这不仅仅在这里发生。
The interesting thing is it's like, you this isn't just happening here.
你看看美国的情况。
You look across to America.
完全是一模一样的。
It's exactly the same.
特朗普没能实现他的承诺，虽然不是全部，但很大一部分他都没能做到。
Trump is failing on his mandate, not entirely, but a large part of his mandate he's failed on.
一切依然很昂贵。
Everything's still expensive.
债务现在差不多达到了四万亿美元，感觉他们几乎每个月都要印上一万亿。
The the debts at, I don't know, nearly 40,000,000,000,000 now, and it feels like they print another trillion nearly every month.
今年他们还要进行中期选举，这场选举将激烈异常，而两年半后又将举行另一场选举。
And they're gonna have midterms this year, which are gonna be hotly fought, and they're gonna have another election in two and a half years.
民主党会把矛头指向任何接替特朗普的人，无论是让特朗普连任第三届，还是JD·范斯，或者你的朋友马可·卢比奥。
And the Democrats are gonna make out that whoever follows Trump, whether it's there's put this a third term for Trump, or it's JD Vans or your boy, Marco Rubio.
康纳对马可·卢比奥有好感。
Conor has a crush on Marco Rubio.
无论谁当选，左派都会说，如果共和党再次执政，这对国家来说是一场生存危机。
Whoever it is, the left are gonna say, it is an existential crisis to this country if the Republicans win another term.
而共和党人会说，我不知道。
And the Republicans are gonna say I don't know.
说是加文·纽森。
Say it's Gavin Newsom.
他们会说，这是一场生存危机。
They're gonna say, it's an existential crisis.
每次的摇摆都越来越大，而仇恨却在加剧。
And these swings are getting bigger each time, and the hatred is getting cut.
它正在变得——我的意思是，简直是雪上加霜。
It's getting I mean, just the icing.
对吧？
Right?
我认为，这件事只是进一步表明，这个国家和政治体系正在崩溃。
I think the ice thing is just, again, more signal of a country and a political system that is breaking.
我们应该谈谈这个‘冰’事。
We should talk about that ice thing.
所以，你知道我发现关于‘冰’这件事最奇怪的是什么吗？
So do you know do know what I found really weird about the ICE thing?
对吧？
Right?
事情发生时，所有共和党人都坚定地为这名男子辩护，他朝一名女子开枪——我不记得她名字了——但当时她正在车里，被射中了脸；而所有左翼民主党人则坚称她只是想开车离开，这是一起谋杀。
It's like, when it happened, all the Republicans got an entrenched position defending this guy for shooting that lady in a I don't know her name, but in the car in in the face, And all the left wing Democrats entrenched their position that she was just trying to drive away, and it was murder.
现在根本没有任何中间立场了。
Zero middle ground whatsoever now.
是的。
Yeah.
但你知道这一切中最奇怪的是什么吗？
But you know what the weirdest thing about it all is?
一天又一天，不断出现新的解释和新的摄像角度。
It's it was like day after day, there were new explanations, new camera angles.
还有慢动作回放，人们纷纷探讨各种细致入微的理由，说明他开枪是正当的，或者根本不是正当的。
There were slow mos showed of it, and and people were going into the like, this detailed nuanced reason for why he was justified to shoot her or why he wasn't justified to shoot her.
然后他这么做了，如果你仔细想想，他们必须得找到新的慢动作镜头和不同角度，他们花时间去慢放，只是为了寻找开枪的正当性依据。
And then he did and if you think about they had to if you think about how they had to get new kind of slow mos and different angles, they're spending time trying to slow motion look at a justification.
方向盘当时指向了什么角度？
What what what angles the wheel pointed at?
真的会吗
Will it really
吗？
be?
让我讲完。
Let me finish.
我们再想想，你仔细想想。
Let's just and then you go then you you think about it.
就好像，如果你需要这么多细节才能看清汽车的角度、车轮的角度，那我们能不能直接回到那一刻的现实？
It's like, if you need all that detail to be able to look at the car angle and the angle of the wheel and the different can we just go to the reality of the moment?
拿枪的男子和开车的女子并不会这样思考。
The guy with the gun and the woman driving the car aren't thinking like that.
她绝对不想被射中脸部。
She definitely didn't wanna get shot in the face.
如果你直接告诉她：‘你要是开车跑，就会被射中脸部’，她根本就不会开车。
If you just said to her, if you drive off, you're gonna get shot in the face, she's not driving anyway.
如果你对他说：‘看好了。',
And if you said to him, look.
如果你开枪，举起你的枪，你就会射中她的脸。
If you shoot you let you laugh for your gun, you're gonna shoot in the face.
你将终生背负着你杀了人的念头。
You're gonna live with the idea that you've killed somebody.
我认为他们都不希望出现这样的结局，但那种情境下的压力如此之大、如此激烈，以至于人们无法做出理性决定。
I don't think either of them wanted that outcome, but the pressure of that situation is is so high and so hot that people aren't making rational decisions.
我们在谈论的是，有人把ICE来到英国这件事类比，但在我看来。
And we're talking about like, people are talking about similar to ICE coming to The UK and to me look.
我其实觉得人们应该去看看戴夫·史密斯关于这个的那期节目。
I actually think people should go and watch the Dave Smith episode on this.
他在上一期中讨论过这个话题。
He discussed it in the last episode.
对我来说，戴夫就是那种什么都能懂的人。
And for me, Dave just like he just gets everything.
嗯，也不是全部。
Well, not everything.
我同意他大部分观点。
I agree with the majority of what he says.
我的意思是，我们几乎可以把这个节目叫做‘戴夫说了什么’。
I mean, we could almost call this show, what Dave says.
直接去听戴夫的吧。
Just go and listen to Dave.
但他实际上是个投了特朗普票的人，可能更偏向共和党，但现在对特朗普非常愤怒。
But but, actually, he's a guy who voted for Trump, probably swings a little bit more Republican, is definitely angry with Trump right now.
就像觉得因为投了他一票而被彻底辜负了。
Like, just feels totally let down for giving him his vote.
但就连他都说，你看。
But even he was saying, look.
你们派这些ICE人员带着枪进入社区，他们可能没有警察那么专业，去强行驱逐人们。
You're sending out these ICE guys into neighborhoods with guns, probably not as trained as police, to forcibly remove people.
你们会制造一个非常紧张、敌对的局面。
You're going to create a very hot, hostile situation.
你们到底要赶走多少人？
Like, how many people are you gonna get rid of?
最多也就十几万人？
Couple 100,000 at best?
这值得吗？
Like, is this worth it?
Anyway，我打断你了。
Anyway, interrupted you, though.
嗯。
Yeah.
他们会说，共和党人会说，是的。
They they would say well, the Republicans would say yes.
如果他们做不到，那这不过是另一件你无法做到的事。
And if they can't, then this is just another thing you cannot do.
改变主意。
Change your mind.
不。
No.
不。
No.
你就别想了。
You just no.
也就是说，这只是另一件事情
As in this is just another thing
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
在执政期间你无法做到的事情。
You cannot do whilst governing.
所以我不介意这个想法。
So I I don't mind the idea of it.
但我想说的是，当这件事发生时，完全没有中间立场。
But what I would say is when this happened, there was zero middle ground.
完全没有中间地带的空间。
There was zero room for middle ground.
当时的讨论要么说他开枪杀她就是邪恶的，要么说她就是疯狂愚蠢的泼妇。
The discourse was either he's evil for shooting her or she's just crazy stupid lip tard.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，当时只需要有个人站出来说句公道话。
Like, all I think it needed was someone to go, right.
别拿着枪冲着一个好人开车。
Don't drive at a guy with a gun, a nice agent.
或者干脆开车离开。
Or drive off.
不。
No.
或者根本就别开车。
Or just don't drive at all.
对。
Yeah.
而且别朝她开枪。
And don't shoot her.
她根本不会撞到你。
She's not really gonna run you over.
其实根本没必要开枪打她。
Like, there was no need to shoot her.
我觉得另一点是，你在推特上看过多少这样的视频，有人被警察拦下，却对警察态度恶劣，结果突然就被枪杀了。
I think the other thing is, how many of those videos have you seen on Twitter where it's like somebody being pulled over by the police, and they're hostile to the police, and it suddenly ends up with them getting shot.
我觉得人们应该明白，千万别惹警察。
I think people should know just don't fuck with the police.
我经历过。
I had it.
你当时和我在一起吗？
Were you with me?
嗯。
Yeah.
你还记得我们去优胜美地的时候吗？
Do you remember when we were in Yosemite?
不记得。
No.
我们在优胜美地，是的。
We were in Yosemite and yeah.
你是说你妹妹在那里。
You mean your sister there.
我们开车时，我开进了一条不该走的路。
And we drove I drove down a road where I wasn't meant to drive down.
我当时不知道。
I didn't know.
他不理解这些路。
He's not I don't understand the roads.
一辆警车从后面追上来，打开了警报器，还用扩音器喊话。
And a cop car pulled up behind us, like, putting sirens on, and and it came over a loudspeaker, a megaphone.
他们说：把双手放在方向盘上。
They were like, put your hands on the wheel.
我就坐在那里，一动不动。
I just sat there, and it did not move.
我等着他们走过来。
I waited for them to come over.
他们向我解释了我哪里做错了。
They explained what I'd done wrong.
我被允许开车离开，但你不能惹这些人。
I was allowed to drive out, but you don't fuck with these people.
你不想搞错。
You don't wanna get it wrong.
我不想过被枪击。
I don't wanna get shot.
但没错。
But yeah.
我的意思是，你看。
I mean, look.
我认为，英国和美国正在发生的事情，根源是一样的。
I think on this, what is happening in The UK and what is happening in The US is coming from the same place.
这是一个金融体系的崩溃，因为目前债务的负担如此之重，维持这个体系需要对政府施加更多的控制和约束。
It's a collapse of the financial system in that the weight of the debt now is so high that to try and keep that system going is requiring more control and grip over government.
我们这里的情况更糟。
We're doing a lot worse here.
我们这里确实正变得越来越专制，但我认为这其实是同一件事。
We're definitely getting very authoritarian here, but I think it's the same thing.
我的意思是，我觉得特朗普根本不是重点。
Like, I don't even think Trump is the story.
我可以坐在这儿大谈基尔·斯塔默，但他也不是重点。
It's like, I could sit here and rant about Keir Stahmer, but he's not the story.
重点在于，这是一个以债务为基础的体系正在崩溃，而这个体系正在惩罚我们所有人，我们仅仅靠投票是无法摆脱它的。
Like, the story is is a debt based system which is collapsing, and that is punishing all of us, and that we are just we're just not voting our way out of it.
我的意思是，这真的挺奇怪的。
I mean, it was really weird.
你知道这周最有趣的是什么吗？
Do know what's fascinating this week?
这就是美联储最近发生的事情吗？
Was that what's been going on with with the Fed?
我不确定你们有没有人看过这个。
I'm not if if none of you have seen this.
有人正在对杰罗姆·鲍威尔进行刑事调查，因为他涉及美联储大楼翻新工程的资金问题。
There's a criminal investigation into Jerome Powell for the funding of a of the refurbishment of the Fed building.
天啊，你知道他们花了多少钱吗？
They spent god.
天啊，你知道预算有多少吗？
God, do you know what the budget is?
我觉得你说的是15亿。
I think you said 1,500,000,000.0.
我不知道。
I no.
我觉得最初的预算可能是17亿或18亿。
I think the original budget was 1.7 or 1,800,000,000.0.
现在费用已经涨到了25亿美元，对杰罗姆·鲍威尔的刑事调查是他是否就此事向国会撒了谎，我认为是这样。
Now it's gone up to 2,500,000,000.0, and the criminal investigation into Jerome Powell is whether he lied to congress, I think, about this.
顺便说一下，25亿美元。
But by the way, 2,500,000,000.0
就为了翻新？
For a refurb.
就为了翻新。
For a refurb.
是啊。
Yeah.
是啊。
Yeah.
你见过翻新后的样子吗？
Have you seen the refurb?
看起来疯狂极了。
Looks insane.
嘿。
Hey.
当你从事印钞业务，又想翻新你的大楼时，也许你可以印点钱。
When you're in the business of printing money and you wanna refurb your building, maybe you can print some money.
但真正有趣的是，我觉得我们没必要播放杰罗姆·鲍威尔的那段视频。
But what was really interesting, I mean, I don't think we need to play the Jerome Powell clip.
人们应该去看看，因为他实际上是在点名批评特朗普。
People should watch that because he's basically calling out Trump.
对吧？
Right?
真正有趣的是斯科特·贝松的这段视频，他在里面明确地说了出来。
What's really interesting is this Scott Scott Besson video where he says it quite a bit out loud.
美联储启动了我们所说的量化宽松或大规模资产购买。
The Fed began began what we call QE or large scale asset purchases.
他们进入市场，开始购买长期债券，其理论是：你创造流动性，把市场上的安全资产——长期安全资产——拿走，然后收到这笔钱的人会去购买风险更高的资产。
They went in went in the market, started buying long bonds, and the theory of the case there is you create liquidity, you take safe assets out of the market, long duration safe assets, and then the people who receive that money would buy more risky assets.
本·伯南克曾被问及量化宽松的目的时， famously 回答说：‘大家去买股票吧。’
Ben Bernanke famously said, when he was asked what's the purpose of QE, he told everyone go buy equities.
但并不是每个人都能买股票。
Well, not everyone could buy equities.
因此，我们最终形成了一个两极分化的经济：要么你是资产持有者，要么你不是。
So we we ended up with, like, this this two tier economy where either you were an asset holder or you weren't.
而且，美联储很可能将量化宽松政策维持了太久，或者至少维持得过长了。
And, you know, the the Fed constant probably kept or definitely kept QE going for too long.
我曾称美联储为不平等的引擎，有人问我：‘你能相信美联储是促进经济平等的推手吗？’
And, you know, I I called the Fed the engine of inequality, and someone said to me, would you believe that the Fed is responsible for economic equality in the system?
我回答：‘绝对不是。’
And I said, absolutely not.
促进平等并不是他们的职责，但他们也不应该加剧这种不平等。
That is not one of their mandates, but they shouldn't be exacerbating it.
这有点
It's a bit
相当明显。
Quite a bit out loud.
我的意思是，这正是西蒙·迪克森所说的。
I mean, it's what Simon Dixon said.
是的。
Yes.
唯一的问题是，正如他所说，并不是每个人都能成为资产持有者。
The only issue with it is, like he said, not everyone can be an asset holder.
但那确实相当明显。
Well, that's but that's quite a bit out loud.
对。
Yeah.
所以他基本上是在说，当经济放缓时，出现衰退在政治上是不受欢迎的。
So so what he's basically saying is that the when the economy slows up, it's not politically popular to have a recession.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，我们现在知道的是，在中期选举前夕，特朗普希望取得好成绩。
I mean, we know this right now is that going into the midterms, Trump wants to do well.
他希望经济蓬勃发展。
He wants the economy flying.
所以，现在出现衰退在政治上是不受欢迎的。
So it's not politically popular to have recessions anymore.
我们不再这么做。
We don't do that.
我们已经禁止了衰退。
We've banned recessions.
因此，为了避免衰退，我们采取量化宽松政策。
So to avoid it, we have QE.
而量化宽松的问题在于，它回归到对这种债务驱动体系的支持。
And the thing about QE is it goes back to it's the it's the sponsoring of this debt based system.
他提到，当美联储启动量化宽松时，富人们会怎么做？
And he was telling that when the Fed activates QE, what do rich people do?
资产会怎样？
What do assets.
如果我们知道量化宽松即将来临，你应该怎么做？
If we know that QE is coming, what should you do?
买入资产。
Buy assets.
买入资产。
Buy assets.
你应该购买比特币。
You should buy Bitcoin.
你应该购买股票，因为你的钱会增值。
You should buy equities because your money is going to increase in value.
现在它会在名义上增值，但你的购买金额可能不会同等受益。
And now it's gonna increase in value nominally, but your purchase amount might not be hit the same.
但所有身处这个金融体系之外的人，所有没有钱购买资产的工人阶级或中产阶级，都会被这种方式伤害。
But all the people outside of this financial system, all the working class or the middle class people who've got no money to buy assets, well, they get screwed by this.
这是资金向上层转移的过程，而他把这层意思说出来了。
This is the extraction of the money upwards, and he's saying the quiet bit out loud.
但奇怪的是，康纳，我的意思是，我并不喜欢央行。
But the weird thing is on this, Connor, is like I mean, I'm no fan of central banks.
我认为货币应该有一个自由市场。
I think we should have a free market for money.
我认为让12个人在房间里决定政策，影响数百万、上千万甚至数亿人，这不是个好主意，因为央行的职责就是维持整个体系的运转。
I think having 12 guys in a room deciding policy which impacts millions and tens of millions, even hundreds of millions of people is not a good idea because a central bank is its job is to keep the system alive.
对吧？
Right?
因此，为了维持一个以债务为基础的体系，它需要不断注入更多资本。
And so to keep a debt based system alive, it needs more and more capital put into it.
所以它在功能上就是设计用来将资金向上层转移的。
And so it's functionally designed to extract money upwards.
因为当你了解这个系统如何运作时，你就知道市场何时被刺激，也知道该把钱投到哪里。
Because when you know how to play the system, you know when the market's getting juiced, you know where to put your money.
所以，这真是个糟糕的系统。
And so, like, it's a terrible system.
但关于这一点，真正有趣的是什么？
But what's really interesting about this?
他公开说出了那个隐晦的真相，这延续了杰罗姆·鲍威尔在视频中点名特朗普的举动，但我不认为他是在说那个隐晦的真相，因为特朗普政府会站出来说：‘没错。’
He's saying the quiet bit out loud, following on from the Jerome Powell video calling out Trump, but I don't think he's call I don't think he's saying the quiet bit out loud because he's the Trump administration is gonna come and say, yeah.
我们会停止这样做。
We're gonna stop doing this.
我们会停止所有这些市场操纵。
We're gonna stop all this market manipulation.
我认为这实际上是关于对美联储控制权的斗争。
I think this is actually for a fight over control of the Fed.
因为我认为特朗普政府想要把市场刺激得更厉害。
Because I think the Trump administration, they wanna juice it even more.
更多的控制。
More control.
更多的控制。
More control.
是的。
Yeah.
所以并不是说，我们赶走了杰罗姆·鲍威尔，然后特朗普政府就要接管美联储。
So it's not like, oh, we've got rid of Jerome Powell, and it's not like the Trump administration is gonna take control of the Fed.
他们只是会安插自己的人。
They're just gonna put in their guy.
这其实是一个信号，我认为杰罗姆·鲍威尔这件事就像是给继任者的一个警告，因为他本来也快卸任了，对吧？
This is a this is a cent I think the Jerome Powell thing is like a is a warning shot for whoever takes over, because he's due to step down soon anyway, is it?
我也一直觉得，狗狗币这件事这么快就被抛在脑后，真的很奇怪。
I always found it weird as well how quickly the Doge thing kinda just went out the window.
是的。
Yeah.
他们之前做得还不错，但后来就突然悄无声息了。
Like, they were doing some good, and then it kinda just went quiet.
所以在本播客中，你肯定会经常听到我谈论比特币。
So on this podcast, you are definitely hearing me talk about Bitcoin a lot.
但为什么呢？
But why?
我们正生活在一个政府通过挥霍支出和无休止印钞推动通胀的非常奇怪的时代。
We live in a really strange time with governments driving inflation with their reckless spending and endless money printing.
这里有一条出路。
There is a way out of this.
有一种方法可以保护你的资金，那就是积累比特币。
There is a way to protect your money, and that is by stacking Bitcoin.
我已经做了很多期关于比特币的节目。
I've made loads of shows about Bitcoin.
你可以去研究一下。
You can go and research this.
你可以去读这些书，但事实是，比特币是有史以来最硬的货币。
You can go and read the books, but the truth is it is the hardest money ever created.
如果你希望保护自己的财务未来，现在是时候登上比特币的列车了。
If you are interested in protecting your financial future, it's time for you to get on the Bitcoin train.
我已经这么做了。
I have.
自2017年以来，我一直在个人层面和通过我的企业积累比特币。
I've been stacking Bitcoin personally and through my businesses since 2017.
它保护了我。
It's protected me.
它保障了我家庭的未来，也增强了我所有企业的实力。
It secured my family's future, and it also strengthens all of my businesses.
所以，如果你想开始积累比特币，该从哪里入手呢？
So if you wanna start stacking Bitcoin, where do you do it?
对我来说，是在Gemini平台上。
Well, for me, it's with Gemini.
它们是一家完全持牌、全额储备的交易所和托管机构，能为你提供安全购买和持有比特币的方式。
They're a fully licensed full reserve exchange and custodian, so they give you a secure way for you to buy and own your Bitcoin.
没有任何风险，也没有任何花招。
There's no risks and no funny business.
所以，如果你认真想正确地积累比特币，就去 gemini.com，也就是 gemini.com。
So if you're serious about stacking Bitcoin the right way, head over to gemini.com, which is gemini.com.
是的。
Yeah.
他们曾经有，但那感觉只有几十亿而已。
They've it was but it didn't it felt like it was only a few billion.
我的意思是，这是另一个完全不同的话题。
I mean, it's a whole different subject.
但你有没有看过那些报道，说高达25%的联邦资金正通过某种腐败手段被挪用？
But, I mean, have you seen that stuff where they found, like, is it 25% of all federal money is being taken through kind of corrupt mechanisms.
我的意思是，这又回到了那个问题。
I mean, that comes back to that.
国家的规模越大，腐败就越容易发生。
The the larger the surface area of the state, the easier it is to corrupt.
这就是为什么你想要小政府。
That's why you want small government.
但这其实很有趣，因为我觉得这是对美联储的一场战争。
But but it's really interesting because I think this is a war for the fed.
正如你所说，这是更多的控制。
This is, like you said, more control.
对吧？
Right?
嗯。
Mhmm.
比如，特朗普想让市场更加火爆。
Like, Trump wants to juice juice the market even more.
我们基本上陷入了左翼和右翼的威权主义。
We basically have lefty, right authoritarianism.
是的。
Yeah.
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