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我会另想办法绕过人力资源，让你日子不好过。
I'll find another way to come around HR and make your life miserable.
我是伊桑·埃文斯，前亚马逊副总裁，我第三次请他来做客，问他关于职场政治的问题，但问题越来越黑暗。
This is Ethan Evans, former Amazon VP, and I brought him on for a third time to ask him questions about corporate politics, but the questions get increasingly darker.
我看你是想逼我。
I see you want to push me.
有没有过为了往上爬而不得不牺牲别人的情况？
You know, were there ever cases where you had to burn someone to get ahead?
这仍然是一场心理战和竞争，我有权赢。
There is still a mind game and a competition I'm allowed to win.
你作为副总裁取得了这么大的成功。
You had so much success as a VP.
你有没有搞过权力扩张？
Did you do empire building?
我们和贝索斯开了年度会议。
We had our annual meeting with Bezos.
杰夫把我们狠狠批了一顿。
Well, Jeff tore into us.
在高压情境下，撒谎是不是最优选择？
Is lying optimal in high stakes situations?
这个坑深不见底。
This hole has no bottom.
走吧。
Let's go.
这是完整的一集。
Here's the full episode.
我不知道未来会发生什么，但看看最新的进展，这些模型似乎能胜任技术人员的活儿了。
I don't know what's gonna happen in the future, but with all the latest advancements, it seems like these models are able to do the technical work of tech workers.
如果是这样，那非技术性的工作将来可能会变得更重要。
And in that case, it feels like the nontechnical work may become more important in the future.
同时，很多人也有一种猜测——我希望这不是真的，但听起来挺合理——那就是如果这些模型能替代技术人员的工作，技术岗位可能会减少。
At the same time, this is a theory that a lot of people have, which I hope isn't true, but it's reasonable, which is if these models can do the work of tech workers, maybe there will be fewer roles in tech.
如果是这样的话，我觉得政治可能会变得更加重要，因为同样多的人在争夺更少的职位。
And in that case, I could also see politics becoming more important because there's the same number of people competing for fewer roles.
所以今天我想在对话中问你所有关于软技能和职场政治的问题，希望能帮助人们应对这些潜在的未来情况。
So what I want to do in conversation today is ask you everything in terms of soft skills, corporate politics, to try and help people in these potential future scenarios.
为了开始，我准备了一系列关于职场政治的问题，这些问题越来越黑暗，但也是人们常遇到的场景。
And to start us off, I put together a set of questions about corporate politics, which are dark and get darker as they go on, but they're also common scenarios that people experience.
我希望你能坦诚地回答人们应该如何处理这些问题，以及你在这些场景中的经历。
And I'm hoping you can answer transparently about how people should handle these and your experiences in these scenarios.
是的，当然可以。
Yeah, absolutely.
我不知道你具体想问什么，但我总是愿意回答难题。
I don't know what you have in mind, but I'm always game for hard questions.
我喜欢能推动我思考的问题。
I like questions that push my thinking.
如果这些问题很黑暗，那也没关系，生活有时就是黑暗的，所以我们就来吧。
And if they're dark, well, sometimes life is dark, so let's go for it.
第一个问题，在合作中大家都在争抢曝光度的时候，你怎么确保自己的工作得到认可？
First question, you know, how do you make sure that you get credit for your work when there's a collaboration and people are competing for visibility?
我觉得认可这件事，特别是在合作中，确实挺棘手的。
So I think recognition, particularly in a collaborative sense, is tricky.
有个好处是，晚一点再争取更多认可会更容易。
One of the good things is it's easier to claim more recognition a little later.
当下大家对这件事都很敏感。
At the moment, people are very sensitive to it.
比如我说，我帮忙创办了Prime Video，或者我是Prime Video的第一个工程师。
Like, I say, I helped start Prime Video or I was the first engineer on Prime Video.
嗯，那都是很久以前的事了。
Well, now that's, like, long ago.
可能有些人会说，那天我也是团队的一员，但他们现在不在这里。
There's some other people who would be like, well, I was part of that team too on that day, but they're not here right now.
而且就算他们看到了，他们又能怎么样呢？
And they probably even if they see this, what are they going to do?
他们会说，嘿，我当时也在场。
They're going to be like, hey, I was there too.
可能还会有人留言。
Maybe there's a comment.
如果几年后你翻看这个视频的评论区，可能会看到一条留言说，嘿，我当时也在场。
If you scroll down in this video years later, maybe there's a comment that says, hey, I was there too.
这其实不是什么大问题。
It's not really a problem.
所以，要获得认可，第一，要明白认可稍微晚一点拿会更容易。
So to get your credit, number one, realize credit is easier to take a little bit after.
你当然希望当时就能得到认可，但之后也可以，而且更容易。
You wanna get credit in the moment, but there's also later, and it's easier.
第二，获得认可的方法是，如果可能的话，尽量第一个发言。
Second, that the way to get credit is to be the first to speak if you can.
这并不意味着你必须说一些不真实的话，但那些先开口的人，如果你说，嘿，我们把这个发布了。
It doesn't mean you have to say things that aren't true, but those who speak first or those who speak up first, if you say, hey, we ship this.
我想，我想……
I wanna I wanna...
我很兴奋想分享。
I'm excited to share.
我们刚刚发布了这个功能。
We just released this feature.
不管你是内部发送还是外部发送给老板、产品经理，你都可以用“我们”来说，哦，我和Ryan、Fred、Sarah、Rajeev一起做的。
Whether you're sending that internally or externally to a boss, to a product manager, you can include the we and say, oh, I did it with Ryan and Fred and Sarah and Rajeev.
但如果你是那个说的人，你就能得到大部分功劳，即使看起来你是在分享功劳，因为说话的人得到了它。
But if you're the one saying it, you're the one who gets the lion's share of the credit even if it looks like and you are sharing that credit because the speaker gets it.
如果别人先说了，那你需要做的就是想办法补充你做了什么。
Now if someone else speaks first, what you need to do at that point is figure out a way to add on about what you did.
所以如果你先说了，而Ryan发了消息说，嗯，我们做了这个项目，什么的，我至少可以插一句，说，是的，这是个很棒的项目。
So if you speak first and Ryan sends out this message that says, well, we did this project, whatever, I can at least chime in and say, yeah, this was a great project.
我真的很享受解决这个那个问题，或者是在认领你的部分。
I really had fun solving blah, blah, blah, or, you know, in claiming your piece.
我真的很享受想出让销售额翻倍的算法。
I really had fun coming up with the algorithm that doubled our sales.
你至少得想办法说出你的贡献。
And you find a way at least to say your part.
沉默不语、指望别人注意到你的贡献，这行不通。
What doesn't work is be silent and hope your part will be noticed.
那样从来都不会有用。
That's what never works.
对，我觉得这种情况很常见，而且这跟团队结构有关。比如你有一组工程师，然后有个产品经理，通常产品经理负责向上汇报，或者也可能是工程经理在做向上汇报。
Yeah, and I think a very common pattern of this, and this is just the way the teams are laid out, is your group of engineers and then there's a product manager, and the product manager is often doing the upward reporting, or maybe it's an engineering manager that's doing the upward reporting.
所以真正干活的人可能就不那么显眼了。
And so the people who actually do the work may not be as visible.
那这种情况下你会怎么说？
What would you say in that case?
对，你可以做的一件事是跟你的经理或产品经理说，记得跟团队分享功劳，记得突出一些人的贡献。
Yeah, so one thing you can do is you can talk to your manager or product manager about remember to share the credit with the team, remember to highlight some people.
我给你举个例子。
I'll give you an example.
当我的团队终于推出Prime Video的第一个版本时，我是高级经理，上面还有一位副总裁。
When my team finally launched that first version of Prime Video, I was a senior manager, I had a vice president.
我去找那位副总裁，他说，今天就是时候了，你现在给所有人写祝贺消息。
And I went to that vice president and he said, Today's the day now you write the congratulations message to everyone.
所以我提醒了他，因为他不是那种喜欢表扬人的人。
So I prompted him, like he wasn't the sort to give out a lot of praise.
所以我提醒他说，今天你应该写个消息，说干得好，团队。
So I prompted him like, today's the day you should write the message saying, good job team.
我把消息发给他之后，他好像本来不会做的，但十分钟后，他就发出来一条说干得好，团队，等等等等的消息。
And once I sent that to him, he's like, I don't think he'd have done it, but like ten minutes later, out comes this like, great job team, blah, blah, blah message.
所以你真的可以在某种程度上引导别人，因为很多人本意是想给功劳的，但他们没考虑到。
So you could actually somewhat direct people because a lot of people intend to give credit, but they're not thinking about it.
就像那个产品经理，他们想的是，我需要汇报消息。
So like that product manager, they're thinking about, I need to report the news.
他们没觉得提一下Ryan做了什么很重要。
They're not thinking it's important to note what Ryan did.
所以只要提醒他们，嘿，这对团队来说是个大成就。
So just giving them that prompt of, hey, this is a big accomplishment for the team.
对我来说也是个重要时刻。
It's a big moment for me.
你能确保在向上汇报的时候，提一下我们做了什么，或者提到我们，而不只是发生了什么吗？
Can you make sure when you report this up to, like, mention what we did or mention us, not just what happened?
通常他们都愿意这么做。
And usually they're willing to do it.
如果他们不愿意，或者你试过了还是不行，那就自己想办法分享这个消息。
If they don't or they won't, and you've tried that, find a way to share the news yourself.
可能不会出现在给领导的公告里，但你可以发个技术说明，接着产品经理的说明说，我不知道领导们是不是都好奇，但我觉得你们可能想知道我们是怎么做到的一些技术细节。
It may not be in the announcement to leadership, but share a, like, technical note and say, follow on to the product manager's note and say, I don't know if all of you in leadership are curious, but I thought you might want to know some of the technical underpinnings of how we did this.
然后你就可以随便聊你想聊的了。
And then you could talk about whatever you want.
没有人会回来跟你说，我们不在乎这些是怎么运作的，因为那样会显得他们很没面子。
No one is going to come back to you and say, like, we don't care about how any of it works, because that makes them look bad.
所以你要找到一种方式，让别人很难不喜欢，或者至少很难打断你。
So you're finding a way to talk about things in a way that's hard for people to not like, or to at least shut down.
所以让产品经理去宣布事情发生了，然后你来补充细节和亮点。
And so let the product manager share the fact it happened, but then you share the color.
想想看，如果你看任何类型的体育比赛，解说席上总有两个人。
Think of it, if you watch any sports of any type, they always have two people in the booth.
一个是实况解说员，他会说，某某打了球，踢了球，或者接了球。
They have the play by play announcer who's like, so and so hit the ball or kicked the ball or caught the ball.
但旁边还有一位评论员，他会在那里说，对。
But then they have the color guy, and the color guy is there saying like, yeah.
他是那所大学毕业的，四年级的出色接球手。
And he's the great receiver out of this university in his fourth year.
而且，那真是一个难度很高的动作。
And, like, that's a really tough play.
我当球员的时候，跑那个路线真的很难。
When I was a player, it was really tough to run that pattern or whatever.
你可以自己当那个解说员。
You can be your own color guy.
如果产品经理是播音员，那你就负责解说。
If the PM is the announcer, you give the color.
这是两个不同的角色，而且大家都欢迎解说员。
And those are two jobs, and everyone welcomes the color guy.
就这么做。
Do that.
经常有这样的领导评审会，你会贬低自己，说我想争取指导，或者想争取一些人员编制之类的。
There's often these forums for leadership reviews where you put yourself down and you say, I'm trying to get steering on this, or I'm trying to get some headcount or something.
我注意到，其实他们真正想要的是把项目展示给领导层。
And I noticed that actually the real outcome they wanted was to put the project in front of leadership.
所以当那个人要晋升的时候，项目就会被看到，领导也会知道他们的工作。
So when that person's promo is coming along, then it's visible and that person's aware of their work.
所以如果每个人都听从这个建议，大家都在争着说话，但没什么实际影响。
And so if everyone takes this advice, everyone's competing to speak but not have impact.
如果每个人都为了露脸而争，却没有实际价值，这对组织来说似乎不太健康。
It feels like that's not healthy for an org if everyone's clamoring for visibility with no value.
你怎么看这个问题？
What would you say to that?
首先，你说得对。
So first I'd say you're right.
如果每个人都为了露脸而争，却没有实际价值，那这个组织就太政治化了。
If everyone's clamoring for visibility with no value, you've got a very political organization.
但这里有一些能让你解脱的真相。
But here's some truths that will set you free.
第一，大多数人根本不会开口。
Number one, most people, never say anything.
比如，大多数人不会采取行动，包括现在正在看我的一半人，他们心里想的是，我要做点不一样的。
If, like, most people take no action, including, by the way, half the people I'm speaking to right now who are watching me, they're like, I'm gonna do something different.
但事实是，明天他们还是什么都不会做。
And the fact is tomorrow they're gonna do nothing different.
所以我挑战你，做那有行动的一半。
So I'm challenging you, like, be in the half that does something.
第二，你可以选择创造价值。
Second, you can choose to add value.
我刚才在讲怎么分享消息或细节。
I was describing how to share news or share detail.
但我说分享一些技术细节时，你可以带着目的去做。
But when I said, like, share some of the technical detail, you can do that with a purpose.
你可以想，我应该告诉领导层发生了什么，或者这个东西是怎么建成的……
You can be like, what should I tell leadership about what happened or about how this built...
这样建是为了让他们了解。
This is built so that they know.
我可以告诉他们，要么这个系统已经为扩展做好了准备，可以放心使用，要么我告诉他们，重要的是你们要知道这已经可以上线了，但如果我们的成功很大，我们就需要投资扩展。
I can tell them it either it either is built for scaling and it's ready to go and you can trust it, or I can tell them, you know, it's important for you to know this is launch ready, but if we have a lot of success, we're gonna need to invest in scaling.
你可以让它变得有点用。
You can make it somewhat useful.
我理解这种担心，确实有些公司里，太多人只是为了刷存在感而说话。
I understand the worry, and there are some orgs where, like, too many people are talking just to get visibility.
你不想那样。
You don't want that.
但我想说，如果你必须有问题，先成为那些说话的人之一，然后再想办法增加价值。
But I would say if you have to have a problem, first be one of the people who's talking, then figure out how to add value.
因为很多听这个的人会说，我才不管伊桑说什么。
Because so many people listening to this are like, I don't care what Ethan says.
我受不了自己无缘无故说话，所以我不会那么做。
I can't stand the idea of I'm talking for no reason, so I'm not gonna do that.
而那个人就是坐在工位上，考虑要么默默躺平，要么愤怒辞职，因为他们觉得自己没法出头，因为他们决定不参与这个系统。
And that's the person who's sitting in their cube contemplating either quiet quitting or rage quitting because they can't get ahead because they've decided to opt out of the system.
我理解。
And I get it.
我理解你的感受，但你这是在告诉自己，你是为了诚实而牺牲的勇士，可实际上你只是个牺牲品。
I get what you're feeling, but you're you're you're telling yourself you're this bold martyr for honesty and all you are is a martyr.
所以别这样。
And so, you know, don't do that.
相反，把它当成一个挑战，对自己说，好吧，我要开口，但我说的话一定要值得听。
Instead, take it as a challenge and say, okay, I'm gonna talk, but what I say is gonna be worth hearing.
我要对自己要求更高，而不是去生那些光动嘴皮子的人的气。
I'm just gonna raise the bar on myself as opposed to, I'm gonna get mad at all these other people I see just flapping their faces.
我不能因为说话就把自己和他们归为一类，所以干脆不说。
And I'm not gonna say anything because to talk puts me in the same bucket as them.
别那样做。
Don't do that.
别和他们混在一起。
Don't get in the bucket with them.
给自己创造一个更好的圈子。
Make yourself a new bucket that's better.
如果你真觉得自己那么厉害，觉得自己特别牛，那你肯定能说出点有用的东西来。
And if you're as good as you think, if you're sitting there about how hot shit you are, then you gotta be able to find something useful to say.
如果你连点值得听的话都说不出来，那就回去好好想想，自己是不是真的那么牛。
And if you can't construct something worth hearing, then go back and revisit that, but I'm so hot shit.
这就是我给你出的挑战。
That's the challenge I have you.
一般来说，最好的做法是不是尽量大声、直言不讳？
Is the best thing to do generally be as loud and outspoken as you can?
首先，我觉得没有什么绝对最好的做法。
First, I don't think there's ever, like, a perfect best thing.
其次，我的回答是“不是”，因为按你那种说法，别人会觉得你是个吹牛大王。
And second, I would answer that no because the way you phrased it, you're gonna be seen as a blowhard.
你会让人觉得你在虚张声势。
You're gonna be seen as claiming falsely.
如果你稍微调整一下说法，确保你合理地宣称自己能做到的事，并且稍微把“合理”的范围扩大一点，那答案就是“是”。
If you rephrase what you said slightly to make sure you claim everything you legitimately can and stretch legitimate a little bit against the limits, then yes.
举个例子。
Example.
我总说我是Prime Video的第一个工程师。
I always say I was the first engineer on Prime Video.
其实呢，有个人曾经回来质疑过我这一点。我当时做的那个产品，是亚马逊的第一个视频产品，但那时候还没叫Prime。
Now the truth is, and I've had one guy come back and challenge me on this, when I worked on that product, it was Amazon's first video product, but we hadn't named it Prime yet.
所以我做的时候，它根本不叫Prime。
So when I worked on it, it was never called Prime.
后来才改叫这个名字的。
It became that.
所以我可以解释为什么我是后来成为Prime Video的那个产品的第一个工程师。
So I could explain why I was the first engineer to work on what became Prime Video.
但这么说就太啰嗦了。
That's just a lot of extra confusing words.
所以我就把话说得夸张一点。
So I'm ballooning up my claim.
这不算假话，但就看你怎么看了。
It's not false, but it is how you look at it.
我是在简化我的说法，我就是第一个做那个项目的人。
And I'm simplifying my messaging, and I'm the first person who worked on that.
那个在它叫Prime的时候第一个做的人，他觉得我吹得有点过头了。
The guy who's the first guy who worked on it when it was called Prime, he thinks I'm claiming too much.
那好吧。
Well, fine.
你得稍微夸大一点，因为人的脑子记不了那么多。
You push those boundaries a little bit because people's brains can't hold that much.
你得把你的话讲得简单点。
You've got to make your message simple.
所以能多占点就多占点，只要合理就行。
So claim as much as you reasonably can.
别被抓到把柄。
Don't get caught out.
幸好那个人不是那种，你从来没在Prime Video工作过。
Like, luckily, that guy isn't like, you never worked on Prime Video.
他知道我做了什么。
He knows what I did.
他只是不喜欢我怎么说这件事。
He just doesn't like how I label it.
这个我能接受。
I can live with that.
如果他说，嘿，那是胡扯。
If he was like, hey, that's bullshit.
你从来没在团队里待过。
You were never on the team.
比如拿出证据来证明你在团队里待过或者你做过什么，那我就有麻烦了。
Like, you know, show me the proof you're ever on the team or you ever did anything, then I'd be in trouble.
所以你想突破那些界限，但不是为了造假，而是为了让事情变得非常简单。
So you wanna push those limits, but not to being false more to just being really simple.
因为大家更容易相信……
Because it's a lot easier to believe...
比如记得伊森一开始就在做 Prime Video，而不是那个更复杂的故事，而且这个说法也差不多能说得通。
To, like, remember Ethan started Prime Video than this more complex story, and it's close enough to write.
现在有些人会说，嗯，这也不太靠谱吧。
Now some people are like, well, that's not really close enough to write.
你这是在添油加醋。
You're embellishing.
好吧，我也不知道该怎么跟你说。
Well, I don't know what to tell you.
简单点反而更管用。
It's simpler and simple works.
简单的信息才有效。
Simple messages work.
就像所有的营销文案都特别短一样。
It's like, you know, it's all marketing messages are very short.
我明白你的意思，但这里似乎有个灰色地带。
And I hear what you're saying, but it seems like there's a gray area there.
那你怎么在灰色地带里找到合适的位置呢？
How do you find the right place in the gray area?
好吧，行。
Well, okay.
所以你今天想聊的是软技能。
So you wanted to talk about soft skills today.
你得接受一件事，所有软技能都是灰色的，对吧？
One thing you're going have to accept on all soft skills is they're gray, right?
比如你问过我几次，说最好的这个、最好的那个。
Like, you've asked me a couple of times, stated like the best is this, the best is that.
这对我来说是个很好的挑战。
That's a good challenge for me.
但“最好”几乎总是取决于具体情况的。
But best is almost always context dependent.
你在跟谁说话？
Who are you talking to?
他们关心什么？
What do they care about?
所以你得在那个灰色地带里灵活应对。
So you have to move in that gray area.
我想说的是，要习惯在灰色地带里游刃有余，而不是像我们工程师那样，习惯非黑即白的思维。
And what I would say is get comfortable in the gray as opposed to we as engineers, we're trained in binary.
要么是零，要么是一。
It's zero or it's one.
我们喜欢黑白分明。
We love black and white.
但软技能这类东西就是灰色的。
Soft skills and these kinds of things are gray.
不要越界到撒谎那种黑，但也不用把自己局限在纯白的事实里，那种没人会反驳的事实。
Never verge into the black where you're lying, but also don't feel like you have to limit yourself to the pure white of facts not a single person would argue with.
因为在团队项目里，谁贡献了什么，谁提出了想法，怎么分得清呢？
Because on a team project, who had the contribution and who had the idea?
我们再举个例子。
Let's take another example.
我持有许多专利。
I hold many patents.
其中很多专利还有其他发明人。
A lot of those patents have other inventors on them.
有时候我觉得自己才是真正的发明人，而有些人的名字是因为社交关系被加上的。
Sometimes I feel that I'm the inventor and some other people's names got added because of social circumstances.
有时候，说实话，别人是真正的发明人，而我的名字被加了上去。
And sometimes, to be honest, someone else was the inventor and my name kind of got added.
遇到这种情况，我就简单说我有70项专利。
Those situations, I just say I have 70 patents.
我也可以试着细分，比如我有70项专利，其中25项我觉得自己才是真正的发明人。
I could try and divide it into like, I have 70 patents, 25 of which I feel like I was the inventor.
或者我干脆说75项专利。
Or I could just say 75 patents.
所以回答你关于灰色地带的问题，我的建议是看人下菜碟。
So answering your question about gray areas, my advice is read the room.
那“看人下菜碟”是什么意思呢？
And what does read the room mean?
意思就是了解你的听众，然后想办法把你的贡献讲得让听众觉得，哦，你确实做了那件事，而且做得不错。
It means understand your audience and figure out how to explain what you did in a way that the audience is like, okay, you did that and it was good.
你得随机应变。
You have to adjust.
我简历上的成就故事，大部分我都能用很多种不同的方式来讲。
I can tell most of my resume accomplishment stories many different ways.
我会说我是第一个做Prime Video的人。
I say I was the first person working on Prime Video.
我也可以说我是第一个做Amazon Video的人。
I can also say I was the first person working on Amazon Video.
我也可以说我是第一个经理，我招了一个团队，他们负责搭建的。
I can also say I was the first manager, and I hired a team, they built it.
这些说法都是真实的。
They're all true.
所谓的灰色地带就在于，这些说法每一句都属实，但侧重点和角度不同。
And that's the gray area is every one of those is true, but they're a different way of looking at it.
你可以继续追问。
Push me.
我看你是想逼我一把啊。
I see you want to push me.
对，我是这么想的，这里有个光谱：一端是完全没人会质疑、百分之百真实的情况；另一端则是彻头彻尾的谎言。
Yeah, look, because I'm thinking, so there's a spectrum here of complete, no one will push back on it, 100% truth, and then there's outright lie.
如果非要让你在这个光谱上找个平均位置，为了获得最快的职业晋升，你会选哪儿？
If you had to say where on the spectrum you should place yourself on average for for the fastest career growth?
你会怎么
Where would you
越多越好。
More is better.
越多越好，直到你……
More is better until you be...
直到它开始损害你的声誉，你无法兑现为止。
Until it starts to damage your reputation, you can't back it up.
更多……
More...
为什么我说越多越好？
Why I say more is better?
因为大多数人说得太少，声称得太少，而且他们有一种错误的信念。
Because most people say too little and claim too little, and they have this faith which is misplaced.
关键是我要对抗的，不在你的等式里。
The key is what I'm fighting against is not on the table in your equation.
我要对抗的是那些希望被注意到的人。
What I'm fighting against is all the people who are hoping to be noticed.
他们等着有人去查看签到记录、统计签到人数，或者去审查所有代码，然后决定谁才是真正的……
They're waiting for someone to go look at the check ins and count check ins or go look at all the code and decide who had the real...
而这永远不可能发生。
And that's never gonna happen.
他们在寻找那种能带来宇宙般公平感的深度评估。
They're looking for this deep evaluation that will create this cosmic fairness.
这很自然，因为我们都是在大学里长大的，在那里你参加考试、成绩被评定，每道题都有分数。
That's natural because we came through university where you took a test and it got graded and every question got a score.
我们被训练成认为生活中就该如此，但其实并不是。
And we're trained to think that's gonna happen in life and it's not.
所以我想要反驳的是，想象一下你参加了一场考试，回到了大学时代，但写下来的分数取决于你能让教授相信你的努力值多少分。
So what I'm pushing back is imagine you took an exam and you were back in college, but the score that was gonna be written down was what you could convince the professor your effort was worth.
因为你在工作中实际获得的评估就是这样打分。
Because that's how your work is actually scored at a job.
你填写的试卷是一样的。
You fill out the same exam.
理论上，它可以被评分并给你一个分数，但真正的情况是，六个月后，经理，也就是教授，会坐在一个房间里，看着所有这些试卷，心里想，我对瑞安怎么看？
Theoretically, it could be graded and give you a point score, but it's really gonna be six months later, the manager, the professor is going to sit down in a room with all these exams and think, what do I think about Ryan?
我觉得他这次考试大概能得75分。
I feel like he probably got about a 75 on this exam.
他们不会重新读一遍或者给每道题打分。
They're not going to reread it or grade the questions.
他们会说，我了解瑞安。
They're going be like, I know Ryan.
他大概就是75分的水平。
He's about a 75.
你得讲一个故事，让人感觉，我了解瑞安。
You wanna have told a story where it's like, I know Ryan.
他绝对是97分的水平。
He's definitely a 97.
我理解为什么有些人现在浑身起鸡皮疙瘩。
I get why some people's skin is literally crawling right now.
他们会说，这太不对了。
They're like, it's so wrong.
这家伙，我讨厌他，因为他告诉我这些不应该存在的事情。
This guy, I hate him because he's telling me these things that just shouldn't be.
我同意你的看法。
And I'm with you.
但我告诉你，现实世界就是这样，关键在于你如何处理那段关系，如何描述你的工作，如何把它展现出来。
But I'm telling you the real world and it's how well you manage that relationship and describe your work and surface it.
他们会说，天哪，瑞安就是我的97分。
They're like, man, Ryan is my 97.
顺便说一句，这也意味着黑暗的一面是……
And that does mean, by the way, the dark side is...
这意味着另一个得了75分的人会说，哦，是的。
That means someone else who was a 75 is like, oh, yeah.
阿尔弗雷德。
Alfred.
我对他印象不深。
I don't remember much about him.
这成绩是F。
That's an f.
Alfred就是那个坐在那儿盼着能公平打分的人。
Alfred's the guy who's sitting and hoping for the fair grading.
现在他坐在工位上，气得想直接辞职不干，因为他拿了个F。
And now he's in his cube contemplating rage quitting because he got an F.
这就是现实世界。
This is the world.
这个世界很讲究人际关系，而且大家记性都不太好，所以你得主动去证明你到底做了什么。
The world is a social world with short memory, and you've got to claim what you really did.
我之所以建议大家多争取一点，是因为太多人像阿尔弗雷德那样安安静静地坐着，等着别人给他们一个公平的评分。
And why I tell people to claim more is so many people are Alfred sitting quietly expecting a fair grade.
这些行为对某些嗓门大的人来说确实更自然一些。
These behaviors come more naturally to some people who are louder.
但那些天生比较安静的人呢？
But what about some people who are more quiet by nature?
你觉得他们怎么才能获得这种关注度？
Do you have any ideas on how they can get this visibility?
对，当然有办法。
Yeah, absolutely.
有好几种方式。
There's a few ways.
你看，这个世界偏爱外向的人。
Look, the world favors extroverts.
至少一百年来都是这样。
It's done that for at least a hundred years.
有证据表明过去可能不一样。
There's some evidence it was different in the past.
但回到你的问题，安静的人应该做的第一件事是——你能把它写下来吗？
But getting your point, what someone who's quieter should do is, number one, can you write about it?
如果你不是那种想在会议上发言或讨论的人，你能不能在某个地方写下你正在做的事情？
If you're not the sort of person who wants to talk about it or speak in a meeting, can you write about what you're doing somewhere?
你能发邮件吗？
Can you email it?
你能发到Slack上吗？
Can you put it in Slack?
你能用某种方式宣传一下吗？
Can you publicize it somehow?
第二，如果你做不到这些，你能让别人帮你宣传吗？
Second, if you can't do that, can you get someone else to publicize it?
所以，你能把它放到一个能得到反馈的地方吗？
So can you put it somewhere where it's going to get reviews?
你能让你的工作成果说话，但不是在真空中吗？
Can you let your work speak but not in a vacuum?
你能把它分享出去吗？
Can you share it out?
如果你只想……
If you only wanna...
比如说，如果你只想和其他工程师交流，能不能把你做的东西变成一个可以共享的组件？
Like, if you only wanna talk to other engineers, can you turn something you did into a shareable component?
能不能把它变成一场演讲，或者一份白皮书，或者一次内部交流会？
Can you turn it into a a talk for whatever, a white paper, a brown bag?
有哪些方式能让你的工作真正为自己说话，而不是孤立地进行？
What are the ways you can let your work truly speak for itself, but not in isolation?
完全低调地成功的方法，就是做出一个大家都在用的东西。
The way to succeed totally quietly is build something everyone else uses.
如果做到了，他们最终会……
If that happens, they will eventually...
他们真的会主动来找你。
They will truly come looking for you.
比如，这是谁做的？
Like, who built this?
这里有个有趣的故事，是关于一个很久以前离开亚马逊的工程师。
A story here that's fun is there's a long gone Amazon engineer.
他叫马特·朗德。
His name was Matt Round.
我从没见过他，但他做了一个叫马特·朗德工具的东西，简称MRT，那是我们用了十多年的面试跟踪系统。
I never met him, but he built something called the Matt Round tool or MRT, which was our interview tracking system for over a decade.
每个人都在用MRT。
Everyone used MRT.
对，就是那个马特·朗德工具。
Well, it was the Matt Round tool.
所以我从没见过这个人，但我能告诉你一些关于他的事，因为他的工具被所有人使用，而且以他的名字命名。
So I never met this guy, but I can tell you a little bit about him because his tool became used by everybody and it was named after him.
这是一种不用说话就能出名的办法，或者我猜你只需要说三个字母，对吧？
That's a way to be famous without ever saying a word, or I guess you had to say three letters, right?
他得叫它MRT。
He had to call it MRT.
所以这就是那些默默无闻的工程师的成名之道。
So that's the silent engineers publicity method.
我听过人们讨论过一种情况，或者我的朋友们也遇到过，就是竞争超出了范围。
One situation that I've heard people talk about, or my friends have encountered this, is competition's over scope.
比如说，你发现了一个绝佳的机会，你知道它会很有影响力，对你的职业发展也大有好处，这时候你还没告诉任何人。
So let's say you find a incredible opportunity and you know it's going to be impactful, it's going to be great for your career, this is before you tell anyone about it.
你怎么确保自己能拿到这个机会呢？
How do you make sure that you get that scope?
有几件事需要注意。
There's a few things.
首先，作为经理，我要把项目交给你，我得对你有几点信心。
Number one, for me to give you a project as a manager, I have to believe a couple of things about you.
第一，我得相信你的工作质量足够好。
First, I have to believe your work's good enough.
比如，如果你有个好主意，我得相信，好吧，你有个好主意，但你能把它执行好吗？
Like, if you have a good idea, I have to believe, okay, you've had a good idea, but are you the one who can carry it out?
你不需要是最优秀的人，但我至少得相信你不是最差的那个，或者不会带来风险。
And you don't have to be the best person, but I at least have to believe you're not the worst person or someone who's a risk.
所以这关乎对你能力的信任。
So it's a trust in your ability.
你必须建立起这种信任。
You have to establish that.
第二点是我得相信你能腾出时间，或者你本身就有时间，又或者我能帮你把时间空出来。
The second thing is I have to believe you can make the free time or that you have the time, or I can free your time.
我才能放心让你去做。
I'm gonna be able to let you do it.
这意味着如果你手头还有其他工作，得能交接出去，文档写得清清楚楚，或者实现自动化，总之你要把所有必要的事情都做到位，腾出时间来接手这个项目。
And that means if you have other work, being able to hand it off, having it well documented, automating it, whatever it is you need to do in order to get that work to a point where you have the time to do this project.
所以你要提前想好，怎么跟经理（或者相关负责人）说明白，这个项目很有价值，而且无论是能力还是时间上，你都是最合适的人选？
So what you wanna do is think through, how am I going to make the case to my manager that this is, or to whoever, that this is a valuable addition and that I'm the right person, both ability and time to take it on?
关键在于，你从一开始就占着优势。
The key is you do start with an advantage.
如果是你的主意，那你就是最了解它的人。
If it was your idea, then you're the one who understands it best.
你是想得最多的人。
You're the one who's thought about it most.
所以你应该在这个角色上处于领先位置，只要你不搞砸，只要你没有不良记录，或者没有糟糕的人际关系，或者没有其他特别严重的问题。
So you should be in a leading position for that role as long as you don't screw it up, as long as you don't have a bad track record or have a bad relationship or have something else going on that's super critical.
另外一件事就是明确地提出请求。
The other thing is be clear to ask for it.
比如说，我有一个很棒的新想法。
Say, I have this great new idea.
你不必说，我想确保你让我来做这件事。
You don't have to say, And I want to make sure you put me on it.
你可以这样说，我有一个非常有价值的想法，我觉得它会改变我们的业务或团队，我很兴奋能把它付诸实践。
You phrase it as, I have this really valuable idea I think is going to change our business or change our team, and I am excited to bring it, you know, to build it.
我很期待把它变成现实。
I'm excited to make it happen.
这种表达方式会让别人觉得你就是那个人，如果他们要把机会给别人，就得选择让你失望，而大多数人都会尽量避免这样做。
That messaging sets in people's minds that you're the person and that they have to choose to disappoint you if they're gonna give it to somebody else, which most people will shy away.
如果你什么都不说，那别人就会觉得，哦，这主意不错。
If you don't say anything, it's like, oh, it's a good idea.
那就交给弗雷德吧。
I'll give it to Fred.
但如果你说了你想做，那他们就得考虑，哦，如果我把这个给弗雷德，我得告诉瑞安，让他想想，这值得吗？
But if you've said, and I wanna do it, then they have to decide, oh, well, if I give it to Fred, I'm gonna tell Ryan that and get him just to think, like, is that worth it?
这是我告诉别人的另一条规则。
This is another rule I tell people.
你确实需要有点刺头。
You do need to be a little thorny.
我认为伟大的领导者，包括伟大的工程师，都有一个特质，那就是让别人失望会让他们感到痛苦。
One of the traits I think great leaders have, and this includes great engineers, is disappointing them comes with pain.
不是说他们是混蛋，但他们不会只是说，哦，没关系。
Not that they're jerks, but they're not just gonna be, Oh, that's fine.
哦，对，没事，别担心。
Oh, yeah, no, don't worry about it.
你得表现出那种，什么？
You gotta be like, What?
你干了什么？
What did you do?
不行。
No.
这是我的主意。
My idea.
要是这样的话，我以后就不提想法了。
If this is how it's gonna be, I just won't bring any more ideas.
搞什么鬼？
Like, what the hell?
然后你得稍微顶回去一下，表示这不行。
And then, you know, you gotta put that little pushback in there of like, this is not okay.
再说一次，如果你表现好，我的威胁就是我会把我的好点子带到别的地方去。
And again, if you're good, the threat is I will take my good ideas somewhere else.
这一点很重要。
And this is important.
再想想可怜的阿尔弗雷德，他坐在那儿，拿着他的F，心里很不爽。
Again, remember poor Alfred, he's sitting there with his F and he's mad.
他有个好主意。
He has a good idea.
如果我能把他的主意拿走，他就只能坐在自己的工位上继续生气，阿尔弗雷德就这样被欺负了。
If I can take away his idea and he's just gonna sit there in his cube and be mad again, like, Alfred gets abused.
为什么？
Why?
他之所以被欺负，是因为作为经理，我这么做没有任何代价。
He gets abused because it's free to me as a manager.
我必须在瑞安和阿尔弗雷德之间做取舍，瑞安一直催我要东西，而阿尔弗雷德总是愿意默默忍受。
I have to make a trade off between Ryan who's pushing me for stuff and Alfred who's always, like, just willing to suck it up.
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嗯，也许我真的觉得你有点太强势了，我想帮阿尔弗雷德一把，但我确实得做个艰难的取舍，那就是，如果我不满足瑞安，他就要走了。
Well, maybe I actually think you're a little bit too pushy, and I'd like to help Alfred out, but I do have an ugly triage to do, which is, well, if I don't cater to Ryan, he's out of here.
但如果我不照顾阿尔弗雷德，那家伙稳如磐石。
Whereas if I don't cater to Alfred, that guy is solid as a rock.
两年后他还会在这里。
He'll be here two years from now.
我给他一些免费午餐券和电影票，他就会感激涕零。
I'll give him, like, some free lunch coupons and movie passes, and he'll be so grateful.
别做阿尔弗雷德。
Don't be Alfred.
你得有点刺头精神。
You've gotta be a little thorny.
然后那些人又会说，为什么我得那样做？
And again, those same people are like, why do I have to do that?
为什么我要……
Why should I...
为什么？
Why?
他们就是喜欢说“应该”这个词。
They love the word should.
为什么我就非得这么做？
Why should I have to do that?
好吧，行。
Well, okay.
如果是在一个讲求宇宙正义的地方，你选的神会让一切公平，那你确实不用这么做。
In cosmic justice land where the God of your choice is making everything just, you shouldn't.
但我们不是活在那个世界里。
But we don't live in that land.
我们活在现实世界里，在这里，经理们是有选择的。
We live in reality land where managers have a choice.
他们手下有些强势但很优秀的人，他们想留住这些人。
They have some pushy people that are still good and they wanna keep on their team.
而且他们还有一些挺随和的人，基本上就是随波逐流的那种。
And they have some pretty easygoing people that are kind of gonna go with the flow.
事实上，作为经理，对我来说正确的决定，不是公正的决定，而是实际的决定，就是从那些能接受的人那里拿一点，给那些不能接受的人，因为这样我才能保住整个团队。
The fact is the right decision for me as a manager, not the just decision, but the practical one, is take a little from the people who are gonna be all right about it and give it to the ones that aren't because that's how I keep my whole team.
是的，对于那些不喜欢这样做的你们，我刚刚确实说了，有点亏待好人来照顾坏人，但我有我的工作要做。
And yes, for all of you who don't like it, I have just said a little bit screw the nice people for the bad people, but I have a job to do.
所以，当然，我也从不会对自己说，我刚才对你们说的那些话。
And so, of course, I also never tell myself how I just said it to you.
比如，作为经理，绝不会说，哦，我要亏待我所有的好员工，去帮这两个讨厌的家伙。
Like, as a manager, never say like, oh, I'm going to screw all my nice people to help these two jerks.
但在潜意识里，我在做这种权衡，而我告诉自己的是，我会回头补偿他们，照顾他们。
But subconsciously, I'm making this trade off, and what I'm telling myself is I will get back to them and take care of them.
问题是，你回头又来向我要更多的东西，而我却一直没有机会去补偿他们。
The problem is you're back around asking me for more stuff, and I never quite get back to them.
我本来是想补偿的，而且我出发点是好的，但就是没做到。
And I meant to, and I had a good heart about it, and it just didn't happen.
尽管如此，你得到了你想要的一切，而他们只能接受剩下的。
And nonetheless, you got everything you wanted, and they lived with what was left over.
如果你属于被剩下的那一类，那并不是说我对你有什么恶意。
And if you're in this leftover bucket, it's not that I meant bad things for you.
而是因为有个人一直缠着我，我需要尽快把他打发走。
It's I had, you know, there was this person always talking to me, and I needed to get them out of my office.
所以我给了他们想要的，因为我是人嘛。
So I gave them what they wanted because I'm human.
我当经理的时候，经常思考什么样的团队组合在性格上是最理想的。
When I was a manager, I used to think about, you know, what's optimal team composition in terms of the personalities of the people.
我很想听听你的想法。
I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
你是更想要一个全是超级有野心、咄咄逼人的明星员工的团队，还是更想要纯粹的角色球员？
Would you rather have a team that's full of these super ambitious, pushy superstars, or would you rather have pure role players?
是的，我很想告诉你我喜欢全是那种强势的明星员工，但除非你的业务状况好到能不断给你送来好项目，否则你没法让那么多人满意。
Yeah, so I'd love to tell you I'd like all like pushy superstars, but you can't keep that many people happy unless your business circumstance is just dropping choice projects in your lap.
这种情况在高增长的环境下是可能发生的，那时候每个人都在突破自己的增长极限。
That can happen in a high growth scenario where, like, everyone is against their growth limits.
但如果没有这种环境，尤其是现在很多公司都冻结了招聘名额，这些人就会互相撕咬。
But absent that, and particularly now when there's a lot more, like, flat head count scenarios, those people just eat each other.
他们会变得像吃人一样，对你和彼此都毫不留情，场面非常难看。
They turn cannibal, and they turn cannibal towards you and each other, and it's very ugly.
所以，虽然不能全是角色球员或者全是随和的人，但你需要一些能带来改变、有野心、能推动变革和提出新想法的人。因为如果团队里全是随和的人，团队可能很平静，但没有人会去推动事情。
So a few of them, though, the reason you don't want all role players or all people who are very easygoing is you need those spark of change, of ambition, of you need people who are agitating for changes and ideas, I think, because in this world of very easygoing people, the team may be calm, but no one is pushing.
所以虽然很和平，但影响力不大。
And so it's peaceful, but it's not high impact.
我特别喜欢一句话，就是：讲道理的人会适应环境。
There's a quote I love or a saying I love, which is, reasonable people conform to their environment.
因此，所有的进步都来自于不讲道理的人。
Therefore, all progress is due to unreasonable people.
人们会问：但为什么呢？
People are like, But why?
但为什么？
But why?
为什么非得这样？
Why does it have to be that way?
为什么要点三下？
Why does it take three clicks?
为什么客户不肯付一百万美元？
Why won't the customer pay a million dollars?
为什么我们不能都有气垫船？
Why can't we all have hovercraft?
就是这些人推动事情前进。
Like, those are the people who push things.
你需要一些这样的人。
You need some of them.
但太多的话，就会乱套，因为大家都在往不同方向使劲。
Too many, though, and, you just have chaos because everybody's pushing different directions.
在项目还没公开、你又特别想推进的情况下，我觉得很多工程师其实不担心经理会泄露出去。
In the situation where you have a project and you haven't unveiled it yet and you really wanna work on it, I actually think a lot of engineers, they don't worry about the manager giving it away.
他们担心的是其他工程师对他们热衷的东西也兴奋起来。
They worry about other engineers getting excited about their thing that they're excited about.
那在这种情况下，你怎么防止其他工程师跑过来说，哦，我也想掺一脚。
So in that case, how would you defend against other engineers coming in saying, Oh, I want a piece of that.
哦，这个看起来挺有意思的。
Oh, that looks fun.
哦，这个看起来挺有影响力的。
Oh, that looks impactful.
嗯，首先，这可能是件好事。
Well, number one, that might be a good thing.
我会问自己的第一个问题是，如果我的同事对我的工作感到兴奋，我怎么能把它做得足够大、足够有挑战性，或者分派一些任务出去，这样我就成了那个分蛋糕的人？
The first question I would ask myself is, if my fellow engineers are excited about what I'm doing, how do I make, like, great, how do I make it big enough or tricky enough or hand pieces out so I'm kind of the kingmaker?
所以我就成了那个拿着饼干罐、发饼干的人。
So I'm like the person holding the cookie jar, handing out cookies.
这个角色很棒，或者可以很棒。
That's a great role to be in or could be.
如果你真的很担心被抢，一个办法当然是，等到来不及了再告诉他们。
Now if you're really worried about defending, one thing, of course, is don't tell them until it's too late.
先自己干着。
Work on it.
自己藏着，或者等到任务正式分配给你。
Keep it to yourself, or until it's assigned to you.
另外，如果你能想到一个好点子，那你多半也能想出好几个好点子。
The other, thing is if you had one good idea, you're probably smart enough to come up with multiple good ideas.
所以你可以去找你的经理说，我有个很棒的想法。
So can you, like, go to your manager and be like, I have this great idea.
我要做这个。
I'm gonna work on this thing.
顺便说，还有另外两个想法，我觉得团队里的人会感兴趣的。
But by the way, there's these two other ideas, and I think people on the team would be excited about it.
不管是不是真的，你已经留下了一些，怎么说呢，其他的诱饵线索。
Whether they are or not, you've you've given some, like, I don't know, other bait trail.
这并不意味着那是不正当的。
And it doesn't mean that's illegitimate.
只是你给了别人其他有趣的事情去做。
Just you've given people other interesting things to work on.
但如果纯粹从防御的角度来看，我觉得，如果你在想怎么把自己的好工作留给自己，我会说，跑赢竞争。
But from a pure defensiveness, I guess, if you're thinking about how do I keep my good work to myself, I would say outrun the competition.
比他们领先一点。
Be a little ahead of them.
在原型开发上走得更远，或者在谈论它时更深入，以至于他们跟不上。
Be further down the prototype avenue or further down talking about it or, to where they're not, up to speed.
他们跟不上。
They can't keep up.
另一件事有点阴暗，你喜欢阴暗，你可能有工作要从你的盘子里拿掉。
The other thing that's a little bit darker, you like dark, you probably have work to get off your plate.
想想你手头有哪些活儿。
Think about what you have on your plate.
你可以把活儿甩给他们。
You could get stuck on their plates.
他们也有事可做。
They have something to do.
比如，我想把这个处理掉。
Like, I wanna get rid of this.
你跟老板说，我有个很棒的新想法。
You talk to your boss, you're like, I have this great new idea.
这能帮我们赚不少钱，或者带来很多客户，但我得先把产品foo处理掉。
It's gonna make us a bunch of money or get us a bunch of customers, but I have to get rid of product foo.
但你知道吗？
But you know what?
伊桑和莎拉都很适合接手项目foo。
Both Ethan and Sarah would be great to take over project foo.
他们已经跟上了进度。
They're up to speed on it.
现在他们可能会讨厌你。
Now they may hate you.
你得小心点。
You gotta be careful.
你会树敌的。
You'll make enemies.
你得想办法说，我们得想办法管理这个产品……
You gotta figure out a way to, like, say, we'd have to figure out how to manage product...
项目福。
Project Fu.
还有几个人在做这个项目。
There's a couple other people working on it.
也许我们可以调整一下，然后让老板说，哦对，弗雷德和莎拉，我来处理。
Maybe we can move it around and then get the boss to say, Oh yeah, Fred and Sarah, I got it.
或者伊桑和莎拉，对吧？
Or Ethan and Sarah, right?
我喜欢做事光明正大。
I like to do things above board.
我觉得在这些问题里，我想挑战你的一些心态，就是那种稀缺心态。
I think one of the things I wanna challenge about some of your mentality in these questions, there's scarcity mentality.
好工作就那么多。
There's only so much good work.
这倒是真的。
It is true.
晋升和曝光的机会就那么多。
There's only so much promotion, so much visibility.
但说到好工作，其实有很多。
But when it comes to good work, there's a lot of it.
即使晋升和曝光有限，如果公司真想，他们想提拔谁就提拔谁。
Even with promotions and visibility, if a company wants to bad enough, they can promote whoever they want.
所以我首先尝试不把这些当成零和游戏或者囚徒困境来解决。
So I try first to solve these not as a zero sum game or a prisoner's dilemma.
我试着想怎么才能让它们变成双赢的局面。
I try to figure out how can I actually make them win win?
这不一定总是可行，但至少我会从怎么把这个项目做得更大开始想。
It isn't always possible, but I at least start there of how can I find a way to make this project bigger?
如果别人也想参与进来，我会想办法对他们说，太好了，我们怎么把它做得更好，并且用一半的时间完成？
How can I find a way to, if somebody else wants in on it, say to them, great, how can we make it better and do it in half the time?
或者我甚至会给他们一点压力。
Or, you know, I even give them a hard time.
我会说，好吧，但你知道这是个很酷的项目，比你现在做的要好。
I'll say something like, well, okay, but you know this is a cool project and it's better than what you're working on.
所以让我看看你是认真的。
So show me you're serious.
这个周末你打算做点什么来推进它？
What are you going to build this weekend to move it forward?
然后他们就说，哦，这个周末我有安排了。
And they're like, Oh, this weekend, I have plans.
那好吧，那抱歉了。
Well, then sorry.
这可是个周末就能搞定的项目。
This is a weekend's project.
我可以笑着说这话。
I can say it with a smile.
就像，我以为你很有干劲呢。
Like, I thought you were committed.
如果你能把它当成一种激励，说，嘿，加把劲，那你就能在很多事情上得心应手。
You can get away with a lot if you can play it off as, Hey, like, step up.
来吧，我都在做了。
Come on, I'm doing it.
这其实就像一场游戏，因为人都是互相激励的，对吧？
You know, and there's just a game to that because humans push each other, right?
那些最后以“看好了，扶好我的啤酒”结尾的故事，然后有人做了件疯狂的事，通常都是被人怂恿的。
How do all those stories that end with like, Watch this, hold my beer, and then some guy doing something crazy, it's usually he got pushed into it.
就像，哦，你应该从桥上跳下去。
Like, oh, you should jump off the bridge.
也许你应该从桥上跳下去。
Maybe you should jump off the bridge.
好吧，如果是我，我会来个后空翻。
Well, if I did it, I'd do a backflip.
我觉得就是这样，这就是人的本性。
I think it's this, that's how humans are.
又是一个关于软技能的扎心话题。
Another tough message about soft skills.
人际技能就是应对人类那些奇怪、不理性、有缺陷的思维。
Human skills are about dealing with humans' weird broken minds that are not rational.
人是情绪化的，这也有好的一面。
They are emotional and that can be good.
情绪给我们带来能量。
Emotions give us energy.
它们让我们感到兴奋。
They give us excitement.
但你必须了解人的心理。
But you have to understand human psychology.
我想对所有听众说，你们中很多人，要么是……
And I would say to anyone listening, you're either, many of you...
比如，很多工程师都懂扑克，也知道那个故事：如果你在牌桌上分不清谁是冤大头，那你自己就是。
Like, lot of engineers understand poker and that story about if you can't tell who the mark is at the poker table, it's you.
在理解彼此心思、动机和软技能的这场游戏里，如果你不掌握主动权，那你就是那个冤大头。
Well, in the game of understanding each other's minds and understanding each other's motivations and soft skills, if you're not in charge, then you're the mark.
因为这场游戏在每次会议中都在有意识或无意识地进行着。
Because that game is happening in every meeting consciously and unconsciously.
如果你不去考虑别人的动机、满意度和恐惧，不是为了操控他们，而只是为了理解并打好自己的牌，那你就不在这场游戏里。
And if you're not thinking about people's motivations and their satisfaction and their fears, not to manipulate them, but just to understand and be able to play your cards right, you're not in the game.
记住，扑克不是互相操纵的游戏。
And remember, poker isn't a game where you manipulate each other.
我没办法强迫你按某种方式出牌，但它仍然是一场心理战，一场我有权赢的竞争。
I can't make you play cards a certain way, but it is still a mind game and a competition I'm allowed to win.
所以我觉得，你可以既讲道德，又是个牌场高手，非常擅长打好自己的牌。
And so that's where I feel like you can be ethical and be a card shark and be really good at playing your hand.
我赢你并不是在贬低你。
I'm not putting you down by beating you.
我只是赢了你。
I'm just beating you.
你有公平的机会，你手里有牌。
You had a fair chance you held your cards.
我技高一筹，我赢了，我拿钱。
I was better, and I won, and I get the money.
这就是我告诉人们去做的。
That's what I'm telling people to do.
另一种做法就是，比如，有人站在你身后偷看，或者偷偷装了摄像头。
Like, the other way to do it is like, oh, I have someone standing over your shoulder or a planted camera.
那就是作弊。
That's cheating.
那就是操纵。
That's manipulation.
只要真正擅长读懂别人的心思就行了。
Just be really good at understanding people's minds.
当你想接手那个项目时，也许你可以把一些不想做的事情分给别人。
When you want to take on that project, maybe you off board some of the stuff that you don't want to do to other people.
我觉得很多人都经历过被这样对待。
And I think a lot of people have experienced receiving that.
就是有人想把不想干的活儿推给你。
So someone's trying to give them scope that they don't want.
通常有什么办法来防范这种情况，然后说，哦，我不想干这个？
What's the typical ways to protect against that and say, Oh, I don't want to
接下这个工作。
take on this work.
不过，还是谢谢你。
Thank you, though.
如果你已经处于这种被指派的境地，不得不拒绝，那第一轮你就已经输了。
If you're in this situation where it's been pointed to you and you have to refuse it, you've already lost round one.
也许还能挽回，但避免这种情况的办法是主动提出方案，向团队、老板、公司等等。
There may be recovery, but the way to avoid that is to be the one proposing something, to the to the team, the boss, the company, whatever.
要主动出击。
Be playing offense.
一旦你处于防守状态，你就已经输了，所以我会讲讲怎么防守。
Once you're playing defense, you're already losing, so I will answer how to defend.
但第一道防线，就是那个……
But the first defense, right, the the...
在这种情况下，最好的防守就是进攻，也就是主动提出想法，讨论可能发生的事，这样大家都会觉得，瑞安点子真多，而且他做了这么多事。
You know, in this case, the best defense, a good offense, is be the one putting forward ideas and talking about what could happen so that everyone's like, Ryan's full of ideas, and he's doing all this stuff.
我们根本不可能给他任何东西。
We couldn't possibly give him anything.
然后如果我找你，你会说，兄弟，我很想帮忙，但我手头有项目A、B、C，或者我有这些新计划要做，实在没法接。
And then if I come to you, you're like, man, I'd love to, but I'm on projects a, b, and c, or I have these new initiatives to do this stuff, and I can't possibly do that.
现在，如果你搞砸了，看起来闲着，又没有什么想法在酝酿，有人硬要把活儿塞给你，那有几招可以应对。
Now, if you've screwed up and you looked idle and you didn't have some ideas cooking and somebody's trying to shove stuff on you, there are a couple defenses.
第一招就是，嘿，如果这事儿这么……
Number one is, hey, if this is so...
我接不了。
I can't take this on.
太大了。
It's too big.
太多了。
It's too much.
然后他们会说，哦，那简单。
And they're like, oh, it's easier.
就这个而已。
It's just this.
就是，挺好的。
It's just like, great.
你把它自动化了。
You automate it.
去做吧。
Go ahead.
所以他们会反驳说，你怎么不解决自己的问题？
So pushback, like, why aren't you solving your own problem?
记得我说过要有点刺头吗？
Remember I said be a little thorny.
下一个防御手段是，你不是团队里唯一的人。
The next defense is you're not the only person on the team.
所以我敢保证，团队里肯定有人不会拒绝。
So I guarantee you there's somebody on the team who's not gonna resist.
所以，你只要表现得够难缠，他们就会去找别人而不是找你。
And so just be thorny enough that they go to that other person instead of you.
当别人来找你的时候，你要表现出‘我可不想接你的烂活’的样子。
Be the person when they come here like, I'm not taking on your shit work.
你以为你是谁啊？
Who do you think you are?
然后他们就会去找那种‘哦，好啊，我能帮忙’的人。
And then they'll go to the person who's like, Oh yeah, I can help with that.
那种人肯定存在。
That person is out there.
所以，你保护自己的方式就是让自己不值得被麻烦，对吧？
So the way you defend yourself is to be not worth it, right?
就像刺猬或者豪猪的防御一样。
It's like a hedgehog defense or porcupine.
比如说，老虎或者狗能吃掉豪猪吗？
Like, yes, can the tiger or the dog eat the porcupine?
它们能，但没必要。
They can, but it's not worth it.
我去找个软乎乎的松鼠吃。
I'll go find a nice, mushy squirrel.
所以当他们来找你的时候，你亮出那些豪猪刺，他们就会说，哎哟。
And so when they come to you, you get those porcupine thorns out, and they're like, Ouch.
我还是去找松鼠吧。
I'll go find the squirrel.
然后草坪上到处都是兔子的内脏，那是你同事的，但不是你。
And then, you know, there's bunny guts all over the lawn somewhere else, and that's your peer, but it's not you.
对经理说“不”，给他们豪猪刺，可他们掌握着你的去留。
To say no, to give porcupine, you know, quills to your manager, they control if you get fired or not.
他们掌握着你的绩效和所有那些。
They control your performance and all that.
所以如果你总是说“不”……
So if you're constantly saying no.
如果你总是说不行，那你就显得不太帮忙了。
If you're constantly saying no, then you're just not helpful.
再见。
Goodbye.
但这就是我说的主动出击，对吧？你得做一些能带来足够价值的事情，这样经理就不会总是给你派活儿。
But that's my point about play offense, right, is you've gotta be doing something that brings enough value so the manager isn't always bringing you things.
另外我想说的是，如果这招不管用，试试做个交易。
The other thing I would say is if that doesn't work, try making a deal.
就直视经理的眼睛，说，你看。
Just look the manager in the eye and say, look.
我们都知道这活儿不太招人喜欢。
We both know this is not very appetizing work.
我们能不能承认这一点？
Can we just agree that's true?
经理们要么会说，对，但这活儿总得有人干。
The managers are either like, Yeah, but it needs to be done.
或者他们会说，不，这挺好的。
Or they'll be like, No, it's great.
然后你就可以翻个白眼，好像在说，得了吧。
And you can just roll your eyes in a way that's like, Come on.
所以不管怎样，你就继续做，然后说，我会做这个，但我想做那个。
So then you just move on either way and you're like, I'm gonna do this, but I wanna do this other thing.
所以我会赶紧把这个做完，但条件是接下来我要做那个。
So I'm gonna crank through this, but the deal is I get this next thing.
而且大多数经理其实不想吵架。
And again, most managers, they don't wanna fight.
他们还有别的事要忙。
They got other things to do.
他们需要团队跟他们一条心，而且他们也知道让你做这些活儿不太招人喜欢，所以他们会愿意谈条件的。
They need their team pulling with them, and they know they're asking you to do some unappetizing work, and so they will make a deal.
所以，当个团队合作者，承担一些需要做的事情，是有必要的。
So there is a role to be a team player and to take on some of the stuff that needs to be done.
其实还有一种方法可以让你得到认可。
There's also a way actually to get credit.
比如说，你的同事或者经理想把活儿交给你，你可以去找他们说，嘿，我真的很喜欢做X、Y和Z这些项目。
Let's say your peer wants to hand stuff off or your manager wants to hand stuff off, go to them and say, Hey, you know, I've really enjoyed getting to work on X, Y, and Z.
你给我的项目都挺好的。
You've given me some good projects.
我知道我们团队有一些维护性的工作，而且我知道你一直在找人做这些。
I know our team has some maintenance work, and I know you're always hunting for people to do it.
接下来的两周，你想让我做什么维护工作都行，因为我想让你知道我是站在你这边的。
I'm gonna spend the next two weeks doing whatever maintenance you want because I want you to know I'm on your side.
你想给我什么活儿都行。
And give me anything you want.
我会快速搞定这些，然后我想做这个，或者我想做那个。
I'm gonna crank through it, and then I wanna do this or then I wanna do that.
但你就……
But you you just...
反正你都得挨这一下，不如把它变成个优点。
If you're gonna have to take the hit anyway, turn it into a virtue.
如果你觉得打击要来，或者你已经看到了苗头，就主动去揽下来，提前谈好条件。
If you think the hit is coming or you've seen a pattern, go volunteer for it and bargain up front.
比如说，嘿。
Like, hey.
我知道我们积压了很多任务，或者满是bug。
I know we're buried in backlog or buried in bugs.
我想帮大家把这些搞定。
I wanna get us through that.
我这周末、明晚、下周，或者下次值班的时候，自己来搞个bug清理。
I'm gonna do my own bug bash this weekend, tomorrow night, next week, fill in whatever, my next on call.
告诉我什么对你最重要，因为我想先搞定这些，然后我就能自由地去……
Tell me what is most important to you because I wanna get to where then I'm free to...
我们都能自由地去做你需要的那个更好的事情。
We're both free for me to work on this thing that you need, this better thing.
不过，这些其实都是主动出击的策略。
So about all of these are strategies, though, to play offense.
真正没用的做法是，坐在你的工位或者家里办公桌前，不管你在哪儿，就干坐着盼着……
What doesn't work is to sit in your cube or sit in your home office, wherever it is you're sitting, and hope you...
比如，那种希望自己别被注意到的情况，恰恰是最行不通的。
Like, is the one case where hope you don't get noticed doesn't work.
平时你什么都不做，确实没人会注意到你。
Normally you won't get noticed if you do nothing.
但当我需要分配烂活儿的时候，我会扫一圈团队，看看谁好久没露面了。
But when I'm handing out shit work, I go look around my team, like, who haven't I seen in a while?
哦，是阿尔弗雷德，那个总板着脸的家伙。
Oh, it's Alfred, the grumpy guy.
那就他了。
Here we go.
反正他本来就不高兴。
He's already grumpy.
为什么不把这个给他呢？
Why not give him this?
那他为什么脾气不好？
Well, why is he grumpy?
因为他在测试中得了F，因为他的工作没被注意到。
Because he got an F on the test because his work didn't get noticed.
其实是我让他脾气不好的，但我自己不知道。
I actually made him grumpy, but I don't know that.
我只知道他有点脾气不好，但他还是配合，所以我就给他了。
I just know he's kind of grumpy, but he still goes along with stuff, so I'll give it to him.
作为经理，我会去找谁能接手这个。
As a manager, I go looking for who can I give this to?
人际交往技巧是一门艺术。
Human skills are an art.
它不是一门纯粹的科学。
They're not a pure science.
做一个让人不舒服但又不会让人觉得你是个混蛋，这本身就是一门艺术。
There's an art to being the thorny person without being seen as a jerk.
你可以像豪猪一样，但不用当混蛋。
You can be the porcupine without being a jerk.
就像在说，嘿，兄弟，我可没扎你。
It's like, hey, man, I didn't stab you.
这些只是我的刺而已。
These are just my quills.
那到底该怎么做呢？
Like, so how do you do that?
这是什么意思？
What does that mean?
意思就是，你稍微表现出一点不满，但又不直接反对。
It means the little signs that you're not quite happy without actually opposing stuff.
比如说，老板给你塞了一堆额外的烂活儿。
Let's say the boss brings you some extra crap work.
你可以说，好吧，这个……
You could be like, all right, this is...
我会把它做完，但咱们得改进一下。
I will get this done, but we gotta do better.
我是说，下次希望能做得更好。
Like, I'm looking for better next time.
这就是那种小小的挑战。
It's just that little challenge.
你只是埋下一个小伏笔，比如‘我明天想找个更有挑战性的活儿’，或者‘这事儿一完，我就想要点更带劲的’。
You're just setting that little hook of, I'm looking for a better challenge tomorrow, or, Soon as this is done, I want something juicier.
你就这么轻轻抛出一个引子。
And you're just setting that little hook.
要是他们回头又说：‘这儿还有个事儿你得办。’
If they come back and like, Here's another thing you need to do.
你就可以说：‘我都说了要刺激的，咱俩都清楚这个可不够味儿。’
And I'm like, I told you juicy, we both know this isn't that.
我会再给你一次机会。
I'm going to give you one more pass.
大多数经理承受不了这个，因为大多数人都承受不了。
Most managers can't take that because most humans can't.
即使他们从未同意过，他们也受不了反复面对那种期望，就像‘我再给他带点别的东西，他又要给我脸色看’。
Even though they never agreed, they can't take going up against that expectation over and over of like, I'm gonna take him something else and he's gonna give me shit again.
这不值得，因为再说一遍，还有别人会在我吃掉他们时变成兔子肉酱。
It's not worth it because, again, there's somebody else who's gonna turn into bunny guts when I eat them.
我也知道有人在听的时候会想，这太不公平了，我受够了当兔子肉酱被狼吃掉后撒在草坪上。
And I also know there's people listening who are like, this is so unfair, and I'm so sick of being bunny guts spread on the lawn when the wolf got me.
对，改变吧。
Yeah, change.
先变成豪猪，再变成熊。
Become the porcupine, then become the bear.
这没关系。
And it's okay.
这就像是一个学习的过程。
It's like a learning process.
每个人在职业生涯的某个阶段都曾经像兔子一样软弱，因为他们当时不懂事。
Everybody was bunny guts at some point in their career because they didn't know better.
我想说……他有点失控了。
I wanna He's losing it.
他脑子里全是屠宰场里一堆兔子的画面。
He's got this vision of a slaughtered field of rabbits.
天哪。
Oh my god.
好吧。
Okay.
我们待会儿再回来。
We're gonna come back.
我换个比喻吧。
I'll get a new analogy.
我就不用那个比喻了。
I'll save you from my analogy.
好的。
Okay.
接下来这个情况，虽然有点沉重，但也很现实。想象一下，你想升职，但只有一个名额。
The next situation, a little bit darker as I mentioned, but also realistic is imagine, you you wanna get promoted, but there's only one available slot.
可能是有晋升名额限制，或者那种岗位只有一个经理职位，而你很想要。
Maybe there's a promo quota or maybe it's one of those roles where, you know, there's there's only one manager role and you kinda want it.
你怎么确保自己是最有希望得到那个位置的人？
How do you make sure that you're the the first in line to get that?
首先，说实话，有时候就是不可能。
So first, honesty, sometimes it's not possible.
有时候，我不会承诺别人做不到的事情。
Sometimes, like, I'm not gonna promise people things that are impossible.
如果你团队里有几个比你资历深的人，他们也有能力，并且已经很好地表达了自己的意愿，那正确的做法就是退出竞争，去别的地方发展。
If you have several more senior people in your team who are qualified and have done a good job expressing their interest, the right thing to do is get out of line, go somewhere else.
去一个机会更多的地方。
Go somewhere where there's more opportunity.
我提到这个是因为我总爱拿邮局开玩笑，因为我实在想象不出在邮局里怎么升职。
And I mention that only because some people I always make fun of the post office because I can't imagine how you move up in the post office.
要么送信，要么不送，然后有个邮政局长，就一个，他们一直干到退休。
Like, either you deliver the mail or you don't, and then there's Postmaster and there's one of those, and they stay there until they retire.
我真不知道在邮局能干什么。
I don't know what the hell you do at the post office.
所以如果你在邮局那种地方，就赶紧离开。
So if you're at the post office metaphorically, get out.
去一个正在发展的地方。
Go somewhere that's growing.
如果那里在发展，会有职位空缺，你得明白，经理们不会读心术。
Now if it is growing and there's gonna be spots, you have to be sure managers aren't mind readers.
他们不知道你想要什么。
They don't know what you want.
所以你得确保他们知道你想要这个职位。
So you've gotta make sure they know you want the role.
第二件事，你可以问他们，比如，我怎样才能成为这个职位的首选？
The second thing is you can ask them like, how can I be your first choice for this role?
或者需要什么条件？
Or what would it take?
一个很好的问法是，在什么情况下？
A great way to phrase that is under what circumstances?
比如，什么会让你选择我？
Like, what would lead you to choose me?
即使你得问得有点夸张，比如，嘿，Ryan，不管多难，什么情况下你会把我提到最前面，让我排第一？
Even if you have to be kind of absurd, like, hey, Ryan, against all odds, what would cause you to bump me to the front of line and put me first?
比如，那得是什么样的情况？
Like, what would that have to look like?
为什么要这么问？
Why do you ask it that way?
这个问题谁都能回答。
Everyone can answer that.
每个人都能说，嗯，这就是需要做到的事情。
Everyone can say, well, this is what it would take.
然后至少你知道了，你可以就这些条件进行协商，说，那这样行不行？
And then at least you know, and you can negotiate those criteria and say, what about this?
那样行不行？
What about that?
不过第二点是，能升职的人，是那些不可或缺的人，是我能指望的人，是我知道遇到问题时一定会来帮我的人。
The second thing, though, is who gets promoted is who's indispensable, who I can count on, who I know is gonna ride to my rescue when there's a problem.
所以我会这么做：如果我想插队，如果我想确保自己能到那个位置，我就得主动去处理危机。
So what I would do is I'd say if I wanna jump the line, if I wanna make sure I can get there, I have to jump on crises.
哪里有火情，我就得扑上去。
When there's a fire, I have to jump on it.
为什么？
Why?
把日常工作做好，很多人都在这么做。
Doing your regular job well, there's a lot of people doing that.
在危机时刻，比如系统宕机，或者客户因为服务中断而生气时，谁站出来处理问题，谁技术过硬，谁有领导力，谁就会被注意到。
In a crisis, when a system is down, when a customer is angry because they have an outage, who steps up to handle that and who is technically brilliant and maybe a leader, they get noticed.
在晋升的时候，我问自己的问题是：我准备放进团队里的这个人，是不是无论发生什么我都能依靠的人？
And the question I'm asking myself at promo time is this person I'm about to put on my team, are they going to be the person I can count on no matter what?
他们能不能帮我避免麻烦？
Are they gonna keep me out of trouble?
所以你必须展现出这种特质。
So you have to show that trait.
不过，这通常意味着，危机很少会恰好发生在朝九晚五的工作时间内。
Now, what that usually means, crises unfortunately rarely happen conveniently between nine and five.
它们总是发生在周末或节假日，所以你可能需要做出一些牺牲来应对。
They're always on a weekend or a holiday, so you're gonna have to make some sacrifices to do that.
但为了展示这一点，你可以和你的领导聊聊，问问他们：最近有什么让你夜不能寐的事情吗？
But to show, you wanna have a discussion with your leader, What's keeping you up at night?
你最需要什么？
What do you need most?
我就去解决那些问题。
I'm going to work on those.
我刚跟一个人聊过。
I just spoke to someone.
他们有个很好的原则。
They had a great rule.
他们会去找经理，跟经理聊一聊，问：你最大的三个问题是什么？
They went to their manager, and they would have a chat with their manager and say, What are your three biggest problems?
经理们总有问题的。
Managers always have problems.
他们总能说出：我有这三个问题。
They can always say, I have these three problems.
他们就会说：太好了。
They would say, Great.
哪个最严重？
Which one's worst?
然后他们会说，哦，这个。
And they'd say, Oh, this one.
然后就说，好。
Say, Great.
我想帮你解决你最头疼的问题。
I want to work on your worst problem.
我想去帮你把最棘手的问题搞定。
I want to go solve your worst problem.
我们怎么才能做到呢？
How do we make that happen?
当然，如果有人反复向我证明他们想解决我最头疼的问题，那我还想要谁加入我的团队呢？
Well, of course, somebody who's shown me repeatedly they wanna solve my worst problem, who else do I want on my team?
这就是你成功的方法。
That's how you get there.
这确实很难。
It is hard.
好，你问了一个问题。
Okay, you've asked a question.
我想说清楚。
I wanna be clear.
我已经回答了怎么得到那个位置。
I've answered how do you get the spot?
很多人真正想知道的是，怎么不用付出太多就能得到那个位置。
What a bunch of people actually wanted to know is how do I get that spot without putting myself out too much?
这个我没法替你回答。
That I can't answer for you.
我不知道，除非是贿赂什么的。
There isn't, you know, I don't know, bribery.
这个问题真的没有答案。
Like, there isn't an answer for that one.
在最后那部分，你提到了一个人……
In that last bit there, you mentioned someone...
他问，你最头疼的问题是什么？
He asked, what are your worst problems?
我在想，会不会有什么意想不到的反效果。
I wonder if there might be some unexpected opposite effect.
或者说，如果我是个领导，有人走过来，特别明显地想升职，几乎是在拍马屁，然后说，嘿，你最头疼的问题是什么？
Or what I mean is if I was a leader and someone was coming up to me and overly obviously eager to try to get promoted, almost kissing up to me and saying, Hey, what's your worst problem?
好，我去解决那个问题。
Okay, I'm gonna go solve that.
这可能会让那个领导觉得怪怪的。
It might make that leader feel weird.
嘿，有可能。
Hey, it could.
再说一次，这说的是每个人的性格都不一样，你得学会怎么跟不同性格的人打交道。
I mean, again, this is about all personalities are different and you have to figure out how to approach each personality.
问题是一样的，就是他们觉得什么值得投资在我身上，值得冒险来帮我？
The question is the same, which is what are they gonna value enough to invest in me and enough to really get out on a limb to try and help me?
我怎么才能建立一个双赢的局面，我帮他们，他们也愿意帮我，然后我们可以不断把这个推向更极致。
How do I set up a win win deal where I'm helping them and they wanna help me and we can keep pushing that to be more and more extreme.
就像你问我越来越深入的问题一样，你通常不会直接跳到最深处，而是逐步推进。
That, just like you're pushing me with darker and darker questions, you don't normally jump straight to the end, you build up.
所以你先做好本职工作，扎实，非常扎实。
So you start by doing good work, just being solid, really solid.
然后你变得非常出色。
Then you get really good.
然后你开始问你的经理，我能帮你什么？
Then you start asking your manager, what can I help you with?
你需要完成什么？
What is it you need done?
我有个想法，我就直接做了，我觉得这对你有帮助。
I had this idea, so I just did it and I thought it would help you.
你一步步来，然后开始问，嘿，我想成长，而且我们工作关系看起来很好。
You just build, and then you start asking like, hey, I wanna grow, and it seems like we have a great working relationship.
你能给我一些关于如何成长的建议吗？
Could you give me some tips on how to grow?
你能告诉我一些你觉得我需要改进的挑战吗？
Could you give me some things that you think are challenges I need to work on?
有什么特别的事情需要你帮忙吗？
Is there something special you need done?
然后你做完这些之后，再加深关系，你会说，嘿，我真的想……
And then after you do that, you deepen it again, and you're like, Hey, I would really...
对我们俩来说，有没有一个角色需要你信任的得力助手，在危机时能依靠的人？
For both of us, is there a role where you need a right hand person who's your go to in a crisis?
因为我喜欢难题。
Because I love hard problems.
我喜欢面对危机的挑战，我相信你肯定有一些。
I love being challenged with crisis, and I'm sure you have some.
有没有一个双赢的机会，让我去接手那些事情？
Is there a win win where I jump on those?
对我来说，能有这样的机会是好事，对你也有好处。
It's good for me to, like, have that chance, and it's good for you.
你知道，总会有一个人在你需要的时候挺身而出。
You know there's somebody who's always gonna step up when you need it.
而你……
And you...
你已经一步步走到了这个位置。
You've built your way into it.
所以这有点像……
So this is a little bit...
你这是在问那个经典的温水煮青蛙的问题。
You're kind of asking the classic frog in a pan thing.
如果你把你的经理直接扔进热水里，比如直接说，嘿，我想升职。
If you take your manager and throw them in the hot water of like, hey, I wanna be promoted.
我怎么做才能让你愿意提拔我呢？
How can I do anything you need so that you wanna promote me?
很多人会觉得这样挺奇怪的。
A lot of people are gonna be like, creepy.
好吧，你得慢慢加热那锅水。
Okay, you gotta boil that water a little slowly.
这不是操纵，而是建立关系，对吧？
And this is not manipulation, it's relationship, right?
如果你在约会，你会给对方发个信息或者表达兴趣，约对方出来，一起吃个饭，这是一个逐渐了解对方的过程。
If you're dating, you like send someone a note or express interest, you ask them out, you go to dinner, you know, there's a process of getting to know someone.
不同类型的关系之间有很多相似之处，都有一个过程，你某种程度上是在和你的经理“约会”，来建立关系。
There are a lot of analogies between different types of relationships and there's a process and you're dating your manager in a way to build a relationship.
这不是因为你们要结婚，但某种程度上这就像一场职场婚姻，至少在一段时间内是这样。
It's not because you're gonna get married, but it is a work marriage in a way, for a while anyway.
这没什么不好的。
And that's okay.
你建立好关系之后，就能占据一个有利的位置。
You build that relationship and then you hold a privileged position.
这是你没问过的事情。
This is something you haven't asked.
这个问题你不能问。
You can't ask this question.
有人会跑来问我，比如，你为什么对某某那么好？
People would come to me and say, like, Why do you treat so and so so well?
或者，为什么他们能得到所有好处？
Or, Why do they get all the benefits?
他们还会说，那你为什么不提拔我？
Or they would also say, Why didn't you promote me?
每次有人问我，为什么不提拔我？
And I always, when I say, why didn't you promote me?
我就会说，你为什么不争取呢？
I say, why didn't you earn it?
你为什么不给自己争取晋升机会呢？
Why didn't you promote yourself?
比如，我想提拔你。
Like, I wanna move you up.
你得拿出点成绩来。
Show me something.
如果你问的是那个人，哦，我很乐意列出他们做的所有贡献。
And if you're asking about this person, oh, I'm happy to list all the ways they are contributing.
如果你能在同样的时间里做到同样的事，我也会把你放到他们的位置上，对吧？
And if you want to do the same for the same period of time, I'll put you where they are, right?
因为顺便说一句，他们不会一直待在这里。
Because they'll be gone, by the way.
他们是那种往上爬的人。
They're a climber.
他们要么在我们公司升职，要么就会离开。
They're gonna either move up in our company or move out.
会有一个空缺。
There will be a hole.
赶紧行动吧。
Get moving.
所以我觉得我是个不一样的老板。
So I was a different boss, I guess.
但我总是告诉别人，你想要升职吗？
But I always tell people, like, You want a promotion?
我给你讲个道理。
Here's a piece of logic for you.
有些老板不够聪明，想不明白这个。
Some bosses aren't smart enough to figure this out.
我希望我的团队是最资深、晋升最多的。
I want the most senior, most promoted team I can have.
为什么？
Why?
我怎么可能不想让最优秀的人加入我的团队呢？
Why on earth would I not want the best people on my team?
所以如果你能晋升到新的级别，我愿意给你相应的薪酬和职位，因为我宁愿要一个资深的人，也不要一个初级的人。
So if you can rise to be at a new level, I wanna pay you that and have that because I'd rather have a senior person than a junior person.
虽然我有预算限制，还得费劲争取，但我完全不怕跟管理层据理力争，跟他们说，你看。
Now I have a budget and whatever, and I have to fight uphill, but I have no problem fighting up to my management saying, look.
是的。
Yes.
我的团队成本很高。
I have an expensive team.
为什么成本高？
Why are they expensive?
因为我的团队非常出色，你也知道。
Because my team is damn good, and you know it.
而且我把团队成员调到其他团队，他们现在都成了那边的领导，你也知道那里有明星员工。
And I've moved people out of my team to other teams, and now they're leaders on those other teams, and you know there's stars there.
我们是一个明星组织。
We have a star organization.
我们培养的明星是要花钱的，但这对你有好处。
We build stars that cost money, but it's good for you.
我可以面不改色地跟财务主管或其他任何人说这话，直视他们的眼睛。
And I can tell that with a completely straight face and look the financial officer, whoever, in the eye.
再讲一个故事。
Another story.
我现在正在用这个方法辅导一家公司，我给那里的领导写了封信。
I'm coaching a company right now on this method, and I wrote the leader there.
他是首席产品和技术官。
He's the chief product and technical officer.
我写信给他说，我可以让你的团队表现更出色，但他们在晋升时会要求加薪。
I wrote him and I said, I can make your team higher performing, but it's gonna cost you salary when they step up.
他们会想要得到回报。
They're gonna wanna be rewarded.
你准备好为绩效付钱了吗？
Are you ready to pay for performance?
所以这只是一个我在辅导的人，我告诉他，我可以提升你团队的表现，但你会需要发放更多的股票期权。
So this is just somebody I'm coaching and I'm telling him like, I can raise your team's performance, but it is gonna, like, you're gonna have to hand out more stock options.
你准备好了吗？
Are you ready?
我在内部一直这么做。
I did that internally all the time.
这就是让它运作起来的方法。
That's how you make it work.
当有人说，为什么你没有提拔我？
When someone would say, Why didn't you promote me?
你会直接回他们，为什么你没有提拔你自己？
You would say directly back to them, Why didn't you promote yourself?
当然。
Absolutely.
就是这些话。
Those words.
你为什么没提拔我？
Why didn't you promote me?
你为什么没提拔你自己？
Why didn't you promote yourself?
比如，你的工作成果呢？
Like, Where's the work?
你也没来找我。
You didn't come to me.
你也没从我这儿拿到特别项目。
You didn't get a special project from me.
我们也没达成协议，面对面看着对方。
We didn't make a deal and look each other in the eyes.
你做到这个、这个、这个，并且交付成果，这就是标准。
You do this, this, and this, and deliver, and that's the bar.
有一个工程师，我写过这件事，我职业生涯早期犯过一个错误。
There is one engineer, I've written about this, I made a mistake early in my career.
二十年了，我现在还在后悔。
I still regret this twenty years ago.
有个工程师来找我，我们达成了协议，但我没兑现。
An engineer came to me, he made a deal, and I failed to deliver.
我不是故意的。
It was not intentional.
我当时刚进亚马逊。
I was new to Amazon.
我不懂那里的制度。
I didn't understand the system.
等我后来去给他争取晋升的时候，已经太晚了，错过了窗口期，而且我根本不知道还有窗口期这回事。
And by the time I went to get him promoted, I was too late and had missed the window, and I didn't even know there was a window.
然后他气冲冲地辞职了。
And he rage quit.
他确实应该那样做，不幸的是，因为是我搞砸了。
And he should have, unfortunately, because I blew it.
但那更像是操作失误，不是故意的。
But that was like user error, not intent.
我再也没犯过那样的错误。
And I never made that mistake again.
我承诺过要帮他们晋升的人，有时候是按我说的那样，有时候不幸花了更长时间，但我总是做到了。
Anyone I promised I would help them move up, sometimes it was when I said, sometimes unfortunately it took longer, I always got it done.
但那些只会抱怨的人，我对他们不感兴趣。
But the people who just whined, they're uninteresting to me.
我总是尽量对人们说清楚，门是开着的。
And I always tried to be clear to people, the door was open.
关于晋升，对每个人来说，从来没有人说过，你可能是少数例外之一。
The other thing about promotion for everyone, no one ever in life said, you might be one of the few exceptions.
我知道你有着非凡的职业生涯。
I know you had a remarkable career.
很少有人，甚至可能包括你，会说：哦，对，我升职升得太早了。
Very few people, maybe even not you, ever said, oh yeah, I got promoted way too early.
他们给了我一大堆我都没预料到的东西。
They gave me a bunch of stuff I wasn't even expecting.
几乎每个人在生活中都会觉得：这花的时间太长了。
Almost everyone in life is like, This took too long.
这肯定是事实。
That's gonna be true.
每个人都讨厌这个时间线，因为谁会觉得自己不是最棒的呢？
Everyone hates the timeline because who imagines ourself to be best?
总是我们自己。
It's always us.
所以你提到了和经理建立关系这件事。
So you mentioned that relationship building with the manager.
有这么一个游戏。
There's this game.
我们在聊这个游戏，就是关于怎么在体制内升职的。
We're talking about this game, you know, on how you get promoted in the system.
有些人不喜欢这个游戏，甚至不愿意直接谈，而另一些人则很愿意坦诚相待。
Some people don't like the game to the point where you wouldn't wanna talk about it directly, And others are fine with being very transparent.
听起来你属于那种很透明的人。
Sounds like you're I'm very the type of transparent.
我可以直接去找你说，嘿，我现在是这个级别。
I could go to you and say, Hey, I'm this level.
我想升到这个级别。
I wanna be this level.
需要什么条件？
What does it take?
然后你就会直接回答。
And you would just answer.
我会的。
I would.
不过我能想象，有些经理可能会回避这个问题，或者这对话让人不太舒服。
I could imagine there's some managers, though, that kind of push it off, or maybe it's an uncomfortable conversation.
如果你的经理不愿意明确谈晋升，你会对这样的人说什么？
What would you say to someone that's under a manager that doesn't want to talk explicitly about promos?
我有点想说，找个更好的经理吧。
Part of me wants to say find a better manager.
找一个有上进心的人，因为有时候那些经理自己也没什么野心，所以他们很难理解想往上走的人。
Find someone who's motivated because sometimes those managers aren't ambitious themselves, and so they're going to have trouble relating to someone who wants to move up.
但如果你的情况就是这样，必须和这样的人共事，那我觉得你得看看他们奖励的是谁。
But if that's your situation and you have to work with someone like that, I think then what you have to do is look at who they're rewarding.
看看他们提拔了谁，为什么提拔。
Look at who have they promoted, and why.
你可能会想，哦，那我怎么知道原因呢？
And you might think, oh, well, how do I know why?
好吧，一个例子可能看不出来，但如果你看到他们手下有好几个人被提拔了，你就能找到规律。
Well, one example may not show you, but if you see several people who got moved up under them, you can find a pattern.
他们提拔的是哪些人？
Who are they moving up?
然后我想说的是，如果他们不愿意谈这个，第一，你可以试着找那些被提拔的人聊聊，比如，我看到伊森提拔了你。
And then what I would say is if they can't talk about it, number one, you might be able to talk to some of those people and say, like, I see that Ethan promoted you.
那是怎么做到的？
How did that work out?
那是怎么发生的？
How did that come to be?
或者我看到你升到了高级经理或高级工程师。
Or I see you got to senior manager or senior engineer.
发生了什么？
What happened?
搞清楚他们看重什么，然后去成为那样的人。
Figure out what they're rewarding and go be that.
那是个比较慢的过程。
And that's a slower process.
这可能没那么让人安心，但你要搞清楚他们的表达方式。
It may not be as comforting, but figure out their language.
每个人都有自己表达这件事的方式。
Everyone has a language to express this.
你得弄清楚他们是怎么进行那种对话的。
You have to figure out how do they have that conversation.
再说一次，我会去找那些升职的人聊聊，问他们有没有进行过什么对话。
Again, I would go talk to the people that did get promoted and say, Did you have any kind of conversation?
他们有没有问过什么问题？
Did they ask something?
你有没有在年度考核里把它写下来作为目标？
Did you write it down in your annual review that it was a goal?
我会试着弄清楚，经理是怎么做出那个决定的。
I try and find out, how did the manager make that decision?
然后我会尽量去适应那种模式，因为那样做会有效，而不需要像我那样直接。
And then I would go conform to that pattern as best I could, because that's what's gonna work without being as direct as I am.
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