比特币和体育球队是对抗通胀的最佳对冲工具 | 克里斯·凯利

嗯，我是说从定向投放的角度来看。

Well, the way I mean from targeting.

谷歌在推出Gmail的时候就想到了这一点，大概是什么时候来着？

Google figured that out with Gmail, sort of when they when they launched that, you know, well back in what?

我记得是2001年吧。

Was 2001, I think it was.

所以，你知道，这是硅谷一个屡试不爽的故事，主要还是靠广告业务。

So, you know, this is a a tried and true Silicon Valley story, still primarily an advertising business.

当我们开始从谷歌挖人的时候，我觉得那是个明智的做法。

And when we started to recruit a number of people from Google at Facebook, I thought that was a smart thing to do.

我觉得他们当时就明白，这会建立一个非常有价值的业务，而且会运作得很好。

I think that there was an understanding there that was gonna be you know, build a very valuable business and one that worked very well.

我也觉得，尤其是在人工智能领域，有一个巨大的机会，可以同时涉足技术栈的多个层面。

It it feels to me also like there is this, really big opportunity in AI in particular to play multiple aspects of the stack.

所以，你有电力、数据中心，还有芯片之类的，但还有应用层。

And so you've got, you know, kind of power land, data centers, you got the chips and all that, but then you've got the applications.

你怎么看待在这个技术栈上的投资？

How do you think about investing across that stack?

你是不是就像，嘿，

Are you just like, hey.

我想尽可能多地拥有各个层面的东西，还是你会有所选择？

I wanna own as much across as I can, or do you kind of pick

我觉得基础设施仍然是一类很好的业务，你可以在技术栈的各个部分找到那些能最大化价值的公司。

I think infrastructure is is still a a great, you know, set of businesses that you can find that are are maximizing, you know, value in parts of the stack.

所以我很乐意做主要投资，我管理的基金专注于区块链相关的业务，因为我投资了Alchemy，它是这个领域里一个巨大的基础设施提供商。

And so I've been happy to to do the the main investment, the fund that I run is focused on blockchain based businesses because I angeled Alchemy, is a huge infrastructure provider in the space.

我非常相信区块链相关的业务会逐渐接管基础设施技术栈的某些部分。

And I believe very much in the way that blockchain based businesses will be, you know, sort of taking over aspects of the infrastructure stack over over time.

每个企业都需要分布式信任，而区块链是实现这一目标的最佳方式。

You need to have distributed trust in the numbers of of every enterprise, and blockchains are the best way to do that.

你需要确保AI生成的内容有来源验证，并且能够追溯回去，比如，这是不是人类做的？

You need to make sure that you have provenance checked of of what AI is generating and and that you can trace it back to, you know, is it a human doing it?

是AI吗？

Is it AI?

是代理吗？

Is it an agent?

所有这些不同的东西。

All of these different things.

区块链是一种简单的追踪方式。

Blockchains are an easy way to trace that.

所以我觉得那些基础设施项目都会发展得很好。

So I think that those infrastructure plays are all gonna do great.

我觉得会有面向消费者的垂直应用，也会有面向企业的垂直应用，针对各种AI和特定领域的玩家，比如金融智能之类的。

I think that there will be consumer you know, verticalized consumer plays, and there will be verticalized business plays for each of the AIs and specialty, you know, players in in whether it's finance intelligence or things like that.

你知道，我最看重的还是优秀的创始人。

You know, I I look for I look for great founders, more than anything else.

所以我也做了一些稍微跨界一点的投资，偶尔也投点硬件。

And so I've done some things that are a little bit further field over and a little bit of hardware here and there.

你知道，ETCHED那帮人做芯片做得特别棒。

You know, the guys at ETCHED who've done a fantastic job building chip.

现在成公司了？

Company now?

没错。

That's exactly right.

所以我投了ETCHED的种子轮。

So I'm in the seed round of ETCHED.

这可是炫耀的资本。

That's the flex.

确实。

Exactly.

而且，你知道，看到这么多企业，我真的非常高兴。

And and, you know, just very, very happy to see a lot of these businesses.

我还投了Zipline的种子轮，虽然还没公开，但它在给世界送好东西这件事上做得特别出色。

I'm also in the seed round of zipline, you know, which hasn't gone out yet, but it's done extraordinarily well in delivering amazing things to the world.

所以，物理基础设施和实际的配送，是这些东西运作方式中很重要的一部分。

So that that physical infrastructure and actual deliveries is is is is a is a big part of the way that these things work.

你之前提到区块链会逐渐接管一切。

When you mentioned earlier blockchains are gonna kinda take over.

那是什么意思呢？

What what does that mean?

你对那个世界的愿景是什么样的？

Like, what is your vision of that world?

就是说，要有一个独立可信的网络，用来验证交易，并且以不可篡改的方式追溯它们。

So it's it's a it's having a independent trusted, you know, network that works to validate transactions and and works to trace them back in an immutable format.

这就像是一个审计追踪，记录所有事情的经过，因为它承载着关于系统信任度的重要信息。

It's an audit trail for the way that everything went on because, you know, it says it carries important information about the the trust level of a system.

而且，你确实需要这个。

And, you know, you need that.

我们之所以有审计公司、上市公司等等这些东西，就是为了逐步建立对系统的信任，确保你得到的信息是真实可靠的，是你做判断所需要的。

And the reason that we have, you know, audit, you know, audit firms and public companies and all these different things is to build trust in the system over time, that you're actually getting the information that you want and that you need in order to make a judgment about it.

所以区块链是一种非常高效的方式来实现这一点。

And so blockchains are a very efficient way to do that.

短期内它们效率不高，因为你需要做所有的记录和验证，而且建立一个网络需要时间。

They're inefficient in the short term and that you have to do all the the writing and the validation, and you had it takes a while to get a network up and running for that.

但一旦运行起来，你就有比特币、以太坊，还有其他一些已经脱颖而出的，它们达到了理论上的水平。

But once it's up and running, you have Bitcoin and Ethereum and and all of these and and, you know, other ones that have escaped, you know, so they're they're theoretical levels.

还有Solana、XRP等等，这些基于区块链的选项，它们使用的代币各有不同的用途，如果它们用代币的话。

And Solana and XRP and all all of these options are blockchain based that have various purposes for the token that they use if they use a token.

还有很多企业使用区块链但没有自己的代币，这种基础设施也是值得投资的一个强大方向。

There are a whole bunch of businesses that use blockchains that don't have their own token too, and that infrastructure, you know, is a is a powerful one to invest in.

当你想象那个未来世界时，有一个方面，如果有人批评这个播客，他们会说，嘿。

When you think of that future world, one aspect that if people were to critique this podcast, they'd be like, hey.

你谈了很多关于比特币和加密货币在那个世界里的情况。

You talked a lot about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency in that world.

现在你又谈了很多AI相关的东西。

Now you talk a lot about the AI stuff.

而且我其实觉得这两件事是紧密相连的。

And I actually think these two things are very intertwined.

我同意。

I agree.

然后一些比较基础的分析可能会说，机器需要一种货币。

And some of the like, the the elementary analysis would be like, the machines need a currency.

没错。

Exactly.

这就是起点。

That that is that is where you start.

对。

True.

但感觉区块链，这个数字网络，我是说，AI群体是什么？

But it feels like the blockchain, the digital network, I mean, what is an AI swarm?

这是另一种形式，嗯。

It's a different version Mhmm.

但是，就像是一堆所谓的“节点”，对。

But, like, it is a bunch of, quote unquote, nodes Yes.

一起协作，对。

Working together Yes.

去完成任务，验证。

To get things done, validate.

你开始几乎看到这种融合，然后你会想，这两者是不是其实是一回事？

You start to almost see this convergence, and you're like, are these two things, like, actually the same thing?

它们肯定随着时间推移紧密相关。

They're they're definitely closely related over time.

所以你有这些代理，当它们能成群结队时，它们可以创建自己的多个实例。

And so you have these agents when they can swarm, they can build multiple instantiations of themselves.

正如我们在Hugging Face黑客松和其他类似活动中看到的，它们可以随时间思考。

And as we've seen in the hugging face hack and other things like that, they can think over time.

说“思考”有点夸张，但它们可以随时间运作，就像在执行一个策略来达成结果。

Think is a little bit strong there, but they can operate over time as if they are executing a strategy to get to a result.

而且这个系统可能会违反各种规则，这些规则可能是别人告诉它的、教给它的，或者试图硬编码进系统里的。

And one that may transgress a variety of rules that they're that they're told or taught or that are tried to be hardwired in the system.

所以这就是监管问题开始出现并且变得更加活跃的地方。

And so this is where some of the the regulatory questions start to come up and get more active.

我觉得我们也看到行业方面承担了一些责任，他们说，嘿。

And I think we've seen some responsibility on the part of the industry to say, hey.

我们得想办法让独立于我们之外的人来做这些判断，这些人要受过训练，而且是技术专家，能够随时说，嘿。

We've gotta figure out how to get independent people other than us making these judgments over time and people who are trained in the and and they're technical experts and available to, you know, say, hey.

这里风险有点太大了。

This is where risk gets a little bit too big.

我觉得这是有帮助的，但必须以不本质上反创新的方式来做。

And I think that's a helpful thing, but it has to be done in a way that's not, you know, inherently anti innovation.

所以我觉得，一直以来对此有很多担忧是合理的。

And so I think that there's been rightfully a lot of worry about that over time.

我们在设计保护儿童安全的系统时，尤其是在网络环境中，也面临过很多这样的问题。

We faced a lot of these questions in the design of systems around safety for kids, you know, in the online environment.

而且，你知道，在很多方面，很多人会说Facebook在这些事情上有点失控了。

And, you know, in a variety of ways that, you know, a lot of people would argue that Facebook sort of went off the rails on on a number of these things.

而且我觉得，他们最终采取了一些行为上的补救措施，这在我看来是相当正确的，这些措施更积极地限制孩子们接触那些可能非常强大的技术、社交技术，但方式上更像是教育和媒体素养教育，而不是那种‘嘿’的态度。

And they've, I think, quite rightfully in my view, settled out on some conduct remedies that are, you know, are more active in restricting kids' access to, you know, what can be very powerful technology, social technologies, but doing it in a way that that's that's, you know, teaching and and and sort of a a like a media literacy approach to things instead of a, you know, hey.

‘你只是太危险了。’

You just it's too dangerous for you.

我们早期在扩展到高中时也尝试过这种做法。

We've always tried it in the early days as we expanded into high school.

所以我加入Facebook的时候，它还叫‘The Facebook’，而且都是通过邮箱地址来验证身份的。

So when I joined Facebook, it was still called calling, and it was all validated based on the email address.

当我们扩展到高中时，我们尝试与执法部门的很多人合作，讨论如何确保孩子们确实是他们加入的那个社区的成员，他们能接触到其他孩子，以及如何处理假账号。

When we expanded into high schools, tried to work with a lot of folks in the particularly in the law enforcement community around how were were we gonna make sure that people the kids were actually members of the community that they were joining, that they had access to other kids in, you know, how we were going to deal with fake accounts.

我觉得我们在这方面做得还不错。

And I think we did a reasonably good job of that.

而且，你知道，这也是Facebook能够击败Myspace和其他一些竞争对手的原因之一。

And, you know, that's one of the reasons that Facebook sort of won over Myspace and a number of other, you know, sort of people who had approaches there.

这些东西会随着时间慢慢变差，那份投入也会慢慢消退。

You that can deteriorate over time, and the dedication to that can deteriorate over time.

我觉得可能就是这样，现在公司也做了一些调整，跟监管机构的合作我觉得挺有成效的。

And I think that that that's what may have happened, and now there's been a bit of a reset in the company engaging, I think, very productively with regulators.

我觉得在人工智能领域也会看到很多类似的情况。

I think we'll see a lot of the same things in AI.

我不觉得说“我们就该完全放任不管”这种说法是成立的。

I I don't think that that there's a I don't think it's it's valid to say, we should just have a free for all.

说我们没法监管，这根本说不过去。

There's no way for us to regulate that.

这种说法根本不准确。

It's it's just not accurate.

你明白吗？

You know?

但监管可以做得聪明，也可以做得愚蠢。

But you can have smart regulation or dumb regulation.

而且我觉得我们正在朝着一些主张愚蠢监管的人的方向发展，不幸的是，这种情况在这个领域确实会发生。

And I think we're moving towards some people who call for dumb regulation, unfortunately, and that's, you know, that happens in the space.

而且抨击科技公司很容易，你现在看到的一些数据中心遭到反对，就是因为这成了某种替罪羊，好像在说：嘿。

And it's easy to crusade against technology companies, and you're seeing some of the data center backlash happen right now because it's proxy for, hey.

我不喜欢那种失控的感觉，或者我的孩子可能在使用这些技术，而我却无法控制。

I I don't like the fact that I feel out of control or my kids may be on this technology, and I don't and I can't control it.

如何让人们在其中有更多发言权，以及如何以明智的方式进行监管，是我们未来几年面临的关键问题之一。

How we give people more of a say in that and how we regulate in an intelligent way is one of the key questions that we've got for the next couple of years.

幸运的是，有很多人做过这方面的工作，并且对此思考很多，我们也都参与了这场对话，而且我认为大多数时候是很有意义的。

Luckily, there are a lot of people who've done this, you know, and and who think about it a lot, and we're, you know, we're all engaged in that dialogue, I think, in mostly a meaningful way.

双方都有一些作秀的成分。

There's some postery stuff that goes on and on both sides.

但我认为，现在这些公司，尤其是AI领域的，以及更广泛的科技公司，都深度参与其中了。

But I think that, the companies are deeply engaged in this now in in AI and and the broader technology companies too.

我们最近听到一些AI领袖说，有10%的可能性这可能会让我们所有人都完蛋。

We recently heard some of the, AI leaders say that, you know, 10% chance this could, like, kill us all.

把我们全干掉。

Kill us all.

就是那个天网问题。

The the Skynet problem.

我一直把这叫做天网问题。

I always refer to this as the Skynet problem.

嗯，对我来说，感觉说这种话的都是那些新公司。

Well, to me, it just feels like, the people who are saying that seem to be the new companies.

我没听到马克·扎克伯格说，多管管我吧。

I don't hear Mark Zuckerberg saying, regulate me more.

我也没听到他说，我们需要放慢脚步。

I don't hear him saying, we need to slow down.

不过，有意思的是。

Although, I mean, interesting.

我是说，他们公司确实同意了很多限制，特别是对Instagram的访问限制。

I mean, they did the company did agree to a lot of, restrictions on on, you know, access to Instagram in particular.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我说的是人工智能。

I'm talking about the AI.

不是。

No.

不是。

No.

但我觉得，归根结底，它们其实挺相似的。

And but I'm I'm I'm saying that they're they're somewhat similar at the end of the day.

就是说，你知道的……

That that, you know

因为你说的是由人工智能驱动的算法。

because you're saying the AI powered algorithms

这些算法驱动了很多所谓的成瘾机制，对吧。

powers a lot of the the things that are allegedly addictive mechanisms Mhmm.

就这个方面来说。

For this.

所以我觉得，当你在谈监管所有这些的时候，AI领域有一些更具体的问题，每个问题都有各自的特点，但AI也触及了其他领域，而那些领域里，我觉得已经有一些相当合理的共识去重新设计。

And so I think that when you're talking about regulating all of this, you're it's it's a there are more particular problems in the AI space that that have their own individual parts, but the AI is touching these other ones where there's some been been some, I think, quite reasonable consent to redesign Mhmm.

并且重新思考这些系统是如何与人类协作的。

And some rethinking about how how those systems work with with humans.

这说到底都是关于人类来监管技术，最终掌控技术，而不是让技术反过来主导对话。

It it it is all a talk about humans regulating the technology and ultimately having control of the technology rather than letting it letting the technology take over the the conversation.

自从我在网上看到一个演示，有人做了一个类似Chrome浏览器的东西，某种工具，他们在浏览X平台。

Ever since I saw a demo online, somebody had built a, like, it was something like a Chrome browser or something, some sort of, like, you know, thing where they were going through x.

当他们滚动的时候，它会自动静音或者淡化。

And as they were scrolling, it would basically, mute or, like, a kind of dull

某些帖子。

Certain posts.

比如如果是广告，滚动到那里时，它就会直接显示“广告”。

So if it was an ad, as they were scrolling, it would just you'd get to it, it would just say, ad.

但是你看不到那个

But you couldn't see the

广告。

ad.

把它模糊掉。

Blur it out.

对。

Correct.

或者就像垃圾内容。

Or it would be like slop.

你知道吗？

You know?

就像，你不需要读这个。

And, like like, you don't need to read this.

在演示中，大概每四五个帖子才有一个是真正值得人看的。

As it was going, it was like, maybe one every four posts, five posts, you know, in the demo was, like, actually worth consuming for the human.

而且，这个演示挺可爱的。

And again, like, cute demo.

他们是想展示实时处理的能力，我记得好像是跟JEV有关，就是能实时合成内容的那种。

They were trying to show how, you know, real time I think it was, like, something related to JEV and the ability to kinda do this, you know, synthesizing, in real time.

但这让我想到，如果你没开那个功能，你就是在直接消费这些内容，我的大脑就是在直接接收。

But it got me thinking, like, if you don't have that turned on, you're you and my brain is just consuming it.

说到底，最稀缺的资源就是时间和人的注意力。

And this is like the ultimately, the scarce resource is time and human attention.

所以问题就是，你怎么能用AI来帮你，让你的时间和注意力更高效，让你得到有用的信息。

And so the question of how can you use AI on your on your behalf to make your time and your your attention more efficient to get you good information.

当然，问题在于，它可能被操纵，用来展示坏信息，或者假信息，或者可疑的信息，还可能用来推动一些分裂性的论点。

You know, the problem, of course, is that it can be manipulated to present bad information or or, you know, false information or questionable information and to advance, you know, arguments that that might be, divisive.

所以这些都是让人担心的地方。

And so all of these are concerns.

而且，看事实，看谁有动机去传播假信息，这是所有这些网络的关键部分，也是怎么让信息更有效地呈现出来，让人们自己做选择的关键。

And looking at facts and who has incentives to present disinformation is a critical part of all of these networks and how it gets surfaced more effectively for people to make their own choices.

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If you want one app for your entire digital asset life, check out Uphold today.

前往uphold.com了解更多信息。

Go to uphold.com to learn more.

Uphold.com。

Uphold.com.

今天就去看看吧。

Go check them out today.

当我想到网络时，再回到比特币这个例子，它是一个开放的网络。

When, when I think of networks, again, going back to this example of, like, Bitcoin is an open network.

任何能上网的人，抱歉，任何在世界任何地方能上网的人，都可以上线，买一些比特币。

Anyone with an Internet connect, excuse me, anyone with an Internet connection anywhere in the world, they can get online, they can buy some Bitcoin.

对。

Yep.

这正是它的美妙之处。

And that's part of the beauty.

就是开放获取，谁都能用。

It's just like open accessibility.

体育队嘛，嗯。

Sports teams Mhmm.

可没那么容易。

Not exactly so easy.

对。

No.

对。

No.

确实不容易。

It's not.

这也是我在新项目里想传达的一个见解，就是我现在正在做的那个基金项目。

And that's part of the the insight that I think, you know, we're trying to take in the new project that I'm working through on the fund So

我刚才

I was

想让你解释一下。

gonna have you explain one.

对。

Exactly.

这个想法就是，你几乎想把比特币那种开放获取的精神，用到这个资产类别上，对吧。

Is this idea of, like, you're almost trying to take some of the, like, Bitcoin ethos of open accessibility and say, well, this asset class of Right.

你知道，冠军赛或者职业体育队，普通人很难接触到。

You know, championship, or professional sports teams are so hard to access.

是的。

Yes.

如果我们能以某种方式让这种获取变得民主化，对吧。

If we could somehow democratize Right.

那可能会有很多人感兴趣。

That access, there's probably a of people who'd be interested.

对。

Exactly.

那你讲讲你的策略吧，我觉得你的做法跟我听过的其他人都不太一样。这个基金是不是叫Sports One？

And so describe kind of your strategy, because I think it's a little bit different than anyone else I've heard with this I think the fund is called Sports One.

Sports One

Sports One

就是我们为这个项目成立的公司，目标就是持有多个球队的少数股权，然后把这些资产打包成一个体育资产的组合，人们可以买这家公司的股票，它将来会上市，或者买跟它挂钩的代币。

is the exact exactly the company that we've founded to focus on this, and the goal is to own multiple minority stakes in teams and use that as a as an effective sort of basket of, you know, of of of sports assets that people can either buy the equity in the company of it will be a public company or buy a token that's associated with that.

这个代币是给那些比较随性的用户设计的，他们想要一个门槛更低的入场方式。

And the token is designed for people who may be more casual users who want a cheaper access point.

我们认为，持有多个球队的少数股权，因为球队经常会有公开估值和讨论，所以这本身就能提供一个不错的入场点。

The the we think that the multiple minority stakes in the teams because there are regular public valuations and discussions about the teams that that, you know, will provide enough of an access point.

这真的很了不起。

It it is incredible.

这里面的稀缺性和挑战性都非常大。

There is incredible scarcity and incredible challenge.

有很多人在其他行业赚了很多钱，经营着家族办公室，这些人已经富裕多年，现在他们把体育球队看作一种资产类别。

There are a lot of people who have made a lot of money in other businesses and who run family offices, you know, where folks have have have been wealthy for years and they're looking at this as an asset class.

实际上，要进入这个领域真的很难，因为你必须得到批准，

It's it's actually really hard to access because you have to get the approval of

双方

both

球队的批准。

the team.

你知道，必须有人愿意出售。

Know, somebody has to be selling something.

而且联盟也有相当严格的审批流程。

And then the leagues also have a pretty extensive approval process.

另外，正如我们最近看到的，联盟里也有很多规则需要注意，有些东西有时被视为良性竞争，有时被视为试图规避规则，有时会被联盟严厉打击。

Then also, as we're seeing recently, there are a lot of rules you need to pay attention to in the league too, where some things that have been sometimes are seen as just healthy competition and attempts to evade the rules that sometimes get cracked down on quite extensively by the leagues.

这是有道理的，因为你要保持竞争平衡。

And for good reason because you're trying to preserve competitive balance.

你要确保这个生态系统运转良好。

You're trying to make sure that this ecosystem works well.

所以，我们进入体育这个生态系统的方式是，我们最终会收购大概三到五支球队的少数股权，这样就能为持有这些球队的公司股权以及相关的代币提供一个基础价值。我们会持有大约10%到15%的代币。

So our approach to access to sports as an ecosystem is we'll acquire sort of somewhere between ultimately sort of we we target three to five teams to start, minority stakes in teams, and that'll provide a floor value of both the equity in the company that owns them and of for the token that's associated with it, where we'll hold about 10% of the token, 10 or 15% of the token in the company.

这样你就可以据此推算出一个基础估值。

And you can back into a a floor valuation from that.

从那里开始，我们计划做很多非常支持运动员的事情，比如允许他们发行个人代币来支持自己的职业生涯，这样可以筹集资金，让他们能够参与其中，并且从中受益。我们真的希望那些正在崛起的、有抱负的运动员能够被他们身边的粉丝群体资助。

From there, we plan to do a lot of stuff that's very pro athlete over time, allowing people to issue their individual coins to support their own careers, that will raise the money, that will allow them to, you know, participate and and get from their you know, we we really wanna, you know, have the the, you know, striving athlete who's up and coming be able to be financed by a set of fans around them.

显然，一些知名运动员也会想参与其中，我们认为这很棒。

And obviously, some famous athletes will wanna participate in that too, and we think that's great.

而且，他们可以把这作为粉丝俱乐部的基础，或者作为与粉丝长期沟通的方式。

But, you know, when they can use that as the basis for their fan club or how to communicate with people over time.

但是，我们需要一个外部价值来源来支撑这个生态系统。

But we needed an extrinsic source of value to, you know, think about that ecosystem.

即使你和一个知名运动员一起推出一个代币，如果它没有关联任何实际价值，最终还是会崩盘的。

If you even if you launch with a famous athlete, a coin that doesn't have something associated with it, you know, it's it's it's ultimately gonna crash.

所以，已经有过几个这样的例子了。

So and there have been a couple examples of that.

所以我们决定，如果有一个关联公司，跟代币挂钩，实际持有多个球队的少数股权，这样你就不用担心控制权的问题了。

So we decided that if we had an associated company that tied to the token that actually owned multiple minority stakes in teams, and that way you don't have there's not a control factor that you're worried about.

你不需要深入参与这些球队的日常运营，但是有Sportico、Forbes和CNBC的估值，这些都会发布出来，给投资者提供这些资产类别的估算。

You're not, you know, sort of deep in the day to day of any of these teams, but there's, you know, the Sportico and the Forbes and the CNBC valuations that all come out and and provide these estimates that investors can, you know, have access to the to the to the asset class.

同时也能支持那些包含在组合里的球队。

And and and, you know, and support the teams that are part of the basket too.

当你考虑这个策略时，你是怎么选择球队的？

When you think about this strategy, how do you go about which teams?

如果我想买一个不太热门联赛的球队，可能我对那个球队了解不多，这跟Apollo最近据报道想买洋基队16%的股份是不同的情况。

It's different if I wanna buy a team in, you know, one of the less popular leagues that maybe I don't even know that much about the team versus, you know, Apollo recently wants reportedly 16% of the Yankees.

对。

Exactly.

我是洋基队的球迷。

I'm a Yankees fan.

我知道它们肯定会很值钱。

That I know they're gonna be valuable.

虽然都是职业体育，但你怎么

It's all professional sports, but how do

去考虑选择呢？

you kinda think through selection?

我们会和各种现任老板进行多种讨论，看看我们在哪些地方能成为好的合作伙伴。

We're gonna have a variety of discussions with, you know, the variety of current owners and where we think we can be a good partner.

因为我们在这一领域有经验，我有参与国王队收购过程的经验，也有在棒球大联盟的经验。

Because of our experience in the space, my experience with both the Kings process, but also in Major League Baseball.

所以我们五年前，或者说六年前，买下了巨人队在萨克拉门托的三A球队。

So we bought the Giants triple a team in Sacramento five years ago, six years ago now.

然后我们利用这一点，在一些讨论中，也帮助了奥克兰运动家队应对困境。

And and and then we've leveraged that in in some discussions and and helping out, you know, a a challenging situation for the Oakland A's.

所以他们在搬到拉斯维加斯之前，以及他们的球场在建期间，一直在我们位于西萨克拉门托的球场打球。

So they've been playing in our ballpark before they in West Sacramento before they move to Las Vegas eventually and while while their ballpark is constructed.

而且，你知道，显然现在还有很多东湾的球迷还能看到运动家队的比赛，因为他们暂时在西萨克拉门托打球。

And while, you know, we we obviously, you know, there are a lot of East Bay fans that can still have access to the a's for now, playing in West Sacramento.

最终，那边的老板决定把球队搬到拉斯维加斯，这件事谁也改变不了。

Ultimately, the ownership there decided to move the team to Vegas, and there's not much that anyone can do about that.

我们觉得这对他们和我们来说都是一个挺不错的过渡。

We, you know, think that that that's been a a pretty good transition for them and for us.

而且，我们还必须经过美国职棒大联盟的审批流程，这是收购三A球队必须要走的程序。

And and, you know, we think that there's just and what we also had to go through the Major League Baseball approval process, which you have to do for for triple a teams.

所以，既然我们在四大联盟中的两个都经历过这个过程，而且我们的合作伙伴也经历过NFL和NHL的流程，我们认为我们很有希望成功收购这些球队的股份，并得到联盟的批准。

So having been through the process in two of the four major leagues, having partners of ours that have been through the NFL process, they've been through the NHL process, we think we have a likelihood of success in getting pieces of these teams and getting approved by the leagues.

同时，我们也觉得，凭借我们的经验，我们能给这些合作带来很多价值。

But also, we think that we have a lot to offer those partnerships in terms of our experience.

现在，联盟对机构投资者有限制，他们不能进入董事会。

Now the leagues have set restrictions on institutional owners such that they can't take board seats.

他们不能直接参与日常运营，但这并不意味着我们不能成为好的顾问和合作伙伴。

They can't, you know, be, you know, involved directly in the day to day operations, but that doesn't mean that we can't be good advisers and good partners.

你提到公司里有股权。

You mentioned that there's equity in the company.

我记得你宣布了一个公开交易计划。

I think you've announced a public transaction that you are planning

我们计划合并进一个公开壳公司。

public shell that we are planning to merge into.

好的。

Okay.

然后从那里开始，我们会在这个公司里购买球队。

And and then from there, we'll be, you know, sort of purchasing the teams within that company.

好的。

Okay.

然后你还提到了代币。

And then you mentioned that there's a token as well.

股权和代币之间有什么区别？

What is the difference between the equity and

代币？

the token?

所以股权和代币，代币是一种与公司以及我们正在构建的生态系统建立关联的另一种方式。

So the equity and the token so the token will be a, you know, sort of a separate way to have association with the company and with the ecosystem that we're building.

股权则是传统的公开上市，在公开交易所交易，我们认为主要面向较大的持有者。

The equity will be a classic publicly traded, you know, on public exchanges and and available largely for, we think, larger holders.

而代币则是普通消费者参与系统的一种购买方式。

Whereas, you know, the token will be a way to buy in for for average consumers and a way to participate in the system.

而且感觉这两者正在融合。

And it also feels like those two things are converging.

比如，我们看到很多代币化的证券。

Like, we see a lot of tokenized securities.

这些东西现在开始逐渐出现了。

All that stuff is now starting to to kinda show up.

你觉得最终这两者之间会没有区别吗？

Do you think eventually there's no difference between the two?

我觉得你会看到两者之间有一些交易，因为人们喜欢的不同方面，代币可能会有一些正式的关联，比如访问底层团队福利，而股权可能没有。

I think that you'll you'll see some trading, you know, between one and the other for various, you know, aspects of what people like, the the token may have, you know, some formal associations with it in terms of access to the underlying, you know, team benefits that that the equity might not.

但我们最终可能会同时向股权持有者和代币持有者提供这些福利。

But we might end up offering it both to equity holders and token holders.

我的意思是，我们认为这会随着时间慢慢演变。

I mean, we think that that'll just evolve over time.

我们会观察市场对交易方式的反应，以及人们如何看待它作为一种价值储存手段。

And we'll watch the way that marketplaces react to the way that it trades and the way that that that people think about it as a store of value.

看起来国内市场非常注重股权。

It also seems like domestic markets are very equity focused.

国际市场开始更注重代币。

International markets start to be more token focused.

这些联盟肯定在努力扩张。

These leagues are definitely trying to expand.

比如，NFL最近在澳大利亚打了一场比赛。

Mean, NFL's got games, you know, where where they recently played a game in Australia.

没错。

Exactly.

所以墨尔本有49人队对公羊队的比赛。

So Melbourne 49ers Rams in in Melbourne.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

49人队打了比赛。

49ers played.

49人队对公羊队在墨尔本，而且我觉得今年柏林也会有一场比赛。

49ers Rams in Melbourne, and there will be, I think, a game in Berlin this year.

接下来还有墨西哥城的比赛。

There's a Mexico City game coming up.

你知道的，对吧？

There's you know?

而且NBA在季前赛也经常在菲律宾和中国打比赛。

And the and the NBA has largely in preseason done, you know, games in The Philippines, in in China.

我们和国王队一起去了中国。

We went with Kings, we went to China.

我们和合作伙伴一起去了印度，其中两位合作伙伴是第一代印度移民，包括我们的主要合伙人维韦克。

We went to India with our partners, you know, two of our partners being first generation Indian immigrants, including Vivek, our lead partner.

我们去了孟买，打了NBA在孟买的首场比赛。

We went to Mumbai and played the first NBA games in Mumbai.

这里正在进行大量的国际化进程。

There's a whole bunch of different internationalization that's going on here.

我们还会关注Sports One、英超联赛，以及其他各种欧洲足球运营，看看有没有可能把它们纳入我们的投资组合。

And we'll look at Sports One at the English Premier League, at a variety of of your you know, other European soccer operations and the possibility of of having those in our basket.

我们也会关注印度板球以及其他一些项目。

We'll look at Indian cricket and a number of others.

我还参与了一个与巴塞罗那足球俱乐部相关的1899创新基金，和一群朋友一起，他们大多来自美国，当然也有不少来自欧洲。

I've also I'm I'm part of a of a group that's there's a $18.99 innovation fund associated with FC Barcelona that I'm participating in with a bunch of friends, mostly from The States, but but a number obviously from Europe as well.

所以

So

这感觉就像我小时候的体育。

It feels like sports when I grew up.

那时候人们买球队几乎是因为热爱球队。

It was almost like people bought teams for the love of the team.

你知道有商业运作，但没那么明显。

You knew there was a business, but it wasn't as obvious.

而且我也不太清楚体育老板们到底赚了多少钱。

And I don't know how much money the sports owners really made.

他们确实赚钱，但不像现在这样。

You know, they made money, but, like, it wasn't what it is now.

感觉这已经变得非常专业化了。

It feels like this has been professionalized.

感觉竞争激烈多了，甚至有点残酷，尤其是私募股权公司介入之后。

It feels like it has become much more competitive and and almost, like, a level of, ruthlessness to it, especially when the private equity firms are getting involved.

比如大学体育，你肯定能看到这种情况。

Like, college sports, you're definitely seeing this happen.

这个演变过程挺有意思的。

It's been an interesting evolution.

是正面还是负面的？

Like, positive or negative?

或者说，你怎么看体育本身正在发生的变化？

Or, like, how do you evaluate how sports themselves are changing?

我们也都看到了。

And we see it.

比如，现在大学里的球员都在转学。

Like, the players now are transferring teams in college.

这个周末的莱恩·吉芬。

Lane Giffen this weekend.

我是说

I mean

那真是一系列有趣的对话。

That was an interesting set of conversations.

你知道，摩根·弗里曼都会点名批评你。

You get, you know, Morgan Freeman calling you out.

说你是叛徒。

Calling you a rat.

这真的是非常厉害的事情。

It's a it's a it's a very powerful thing.

所以，你怎么看待，也许大学体育更纯粹，或者曾经更纯粹。

So, like, how do you just think about and maybe college is, like, a more pure thing or it was.

我觉得曾经是的。

It was, I would say.

比起职业体育，这一点更明显。

You see it more obviously versus professional sports.

我觉得人们都听说过这些故事。

I think people, you know, they've heard the stories.

你可能今年是明星，明年就被裁掉了。

You can be the star one year, you're cut the next year.

这其实有点商业化的味道。

It's kind of a business to it.

但我认为，我们通过Sports One和运动员币，希望最终能让运动员在这个过程中更有话语权。

And I but I think that we have aspirations through Sports One and and the, you know, athlete coins that we think will be affiliated with it over time at at returning to, you know, both making athletes more powerful in that process.

但长远来看，我们认为这为个人提供了另一种参与方式，不是赌博。

But over time, you know, we think that that allowing another access point for individuals that's not necessarily it's not betting.

不是那些乱七八糟的东西。

It's not all these different things.

而是用其他方式来表达你对运动员和球队的兴趣和热爱。

It's other ways to express, you know, your interest and your love for the athletes and the teams that you're you're around.

而且我们认为这有一定的经济基础。

And, you know, we think that that has some financial basis to it.

人们花钱买票，花时间在体育场，还有买纪念品，所有这些都包含在内。

You know, people spend their money on tickets, the time that they spend at at stadiums, and then the on memorabilia, on all of those things that that go into this.

我们认为这最终是大家会正面看待的事情，即使有竞争关系，比如那种深仇大恨，如果你是洋基队的球迷，那对手是红袜队，而不是大都会队，但你知道，道奇对巨人，所有这些经典的对决。

We think that that ultimately is a thing that people positively associate, even when there's a rivalry associated with it, where there's there's, you know, a deep enmity, you know, going on for, you know, for if if if you're if you're a Yankees fan, not so much the it's the Red Sox, not the Mets, in town, but, you know, the dodgers, giants, and all of these kind of classic rivalries.

我之前跟你说过，你知道，布鲁克林篮网队，我说，没人会生气。

I told you earlier, you know, the Brooklyn Nets, and I said, no one get mad.

我能这么说是因为，你会说，不。

The reason I can say that You're you're gonna no.

因为真的没那么多人在为他们加油。

Because no one really cheering for them as much.

但如果我说大都会队和喷气机队，

Now if I was to say the Mets and the Jets,

你知道，

you know,

不仅会被我们旁边的马特揍一顿，而且会有很多人不高兴。

not only would I get beat up by our friend Matt over here, but but, there'd be plenty of people mad.

但最终，我们认为这些竞争是良性的，而且，你知道，这是体验它的另一种方式。

But but ultimately, we think that the those rivalries are are healthy ones and that, you know, this is another way to to experience it.

我也觉得反过来也一样。

I also think the reverse is true.

就像金融市场变得有点像体育比赛一样。

Like, financial markets have become somewhat like sports.

人们为自己喜欢的公司加油。

And people cheer for their favorite company.

他们穿着公司的周边产品。

They wear the company swag.

我经常看到人们在推特上发布图表，比如这个打败了那个。

They are, I see people all the time tweeting out charts of, like, this beat this.

而且，你知道，这确实挺有意思的。

And, you know, I mean, it it is kinda interesting to

看，投资中确实有一种支持的性质，人们有自己的选择偏见，他们想显得聪明，想证明自己是对的，这是一种

see There is definitely a a rooting nature that goes into investments, and that people have, you know, their own selection bias that they wanna be they wanna be smart, and they wanna be right, and that's a

完全正确。

100%.

非常人性化的东西。

Very human thing that

体育般的热情在金融市场兴起，同时也伴随着体育博彩的兴起。

The rise of sports like enthusiasm and financial markets is also meeting the rise of sports betting.

是的。

Yes.

而且人们希望他们的钱和他们认为的娱乐能一致。

And it's like people want their money and the things they deem entertainment Right.

对。

To be aligned.

现在我要说，虽然我认为股市就像赌场一样，但赔率更好。

Now I would argue that, you know, although I believe the stock market is just as much of a casino, the odds are better.

你知道吗？

You know?

哦，好多了。

Oh, much.

还有体育博彩。

And sports gambling.

而且这些数据的公开性也是一个很重要的方面。

And then the and the public nature of that data is a significant part.

这也是我们Sports One业务的另一部分，我们正在努力收集更好的数据，并以智能的方式应用AI，给大家提供对运动员和球队更深入的洞察，既包括商业方面，也包括现场表现方面。

And this is another part of our Sports One business is that we're trying to gather better data and apply AI in a smart way to, you know, give people deeper insights into individual athletes and teams and both their biz on the business side, but also on the on the live performance side.

让我觉得很有意思的是，之前居然没有人做过这件事。

It's fascinating to me that, no one's done this yet before.

我记得我们第一次聊的时候，我就跟你说过这个。

I I think at the first time we talked, I told you this.

当然，人们肯定想接触这些资产。

Like, of course, people want exposure to these assets.

比如，Fenway Sports One是什么？

There are things like, what is, Fenway Sports One.

他们，他们

They They

他们拥有一些球队，通过

they own some teams by

像Archos和Dial这些玩家，都已经以封闭式基金的形式，积累了一些球队的少数股权。

the Archos and Dial, the all of these players have have amassed certain minority stakes in teams as sort of closed end funds

没错。

Correct.

这些主要是面向那些已经投入其中的富裕投资者。

For, you know, largely the wealthy investors who are already putting into that.

我们希望这能更加大众化，我们认为这对球队、联盟以及各地的球迷都是有益的。

We we want that to be much more democratized, and we think that that's healthy for the teams, for the leagues, and for and for fans everywhere.

我觉得这很有道理。

I mean, it makes makes a lot of sense.

那么，对于对Sports One感兴趣的人，我们应该让他们去哪里了解呢？

Where for people who are interested in Sports One, where where should we send them

去那边吗？

to up there?

目前，我们，你知道的？

Right now, we're you know?

所以，我们已经宣布了计划，要和这家上市公司合并。

So we we've, you know, announced that we plan to to merge with this public company.

这家公司原本叫Sono，我们预计这件事能完成，但需要一些时间。

It was originally called Sono that's out there, and we we expect that we will, you know, get that done, and and it'll take some time.

不过现在大家就可以去公开渠道了解一下。

But But they can go read, like, publicly read about it right now.

我们在Google上搜过Sports One。

We've done a Google Sports One.

如果大家去Google搜Sono，就能看到基本信息。

If they Google, you know, Sono, they'll see the basic Information.

这是我们目前已经公布的计划。

Plan from here that we've announced so far.

当然，随着我们推进，还会有更多公告。

And, obviously, there will be further announcements as we move down down that road.

然后从那里开始，我们希望能在短时间内获得多个股份，虽然你不想设定太具体的时间表，但凭借我们的经验、知识和正在进行的对话，我们认为可以很快实现。

And then from there, you know, we'll we'll achieve the the, you know, hopefully multiple stakes in in a in a matter of you know, you never wanna put a you know, too much of a time frame on it, but we think we can get that done quickly given our experience and our knowledge and the conversations that we're having.

所以从那里开始，我们最终会推出代币，然后我们想为运动员和他们的粉丝提供投资单个运动员的能力。

So from there, that you know, we'll we'll launch the token eventually, and then, we we wanna provide, for athletes and for their fans, the ability to invest in individual athletes too.

我们会以正确的方式来实现这一点。

We'll we'll get to that in in the right way.

幸运的是，美国证券交易委员会在哪些是证券、哪些不是证券方面已经明确了很多，这让我们能够思考并设计这些产品，以提供尽可能广泛的访问。

And, luckily, the SEC has been a lot clearer in terms of what what are securities and what are not, and that's enabled us to think about that and design these in a way that that will provide the broadest access that we can.

我认为，这是人们在比特币世界、人工智能世界、体育世界和Facebook世界所学到的东西的融合。

I I think, I I think that this is a convergence of things that people learned in the Bitcoin world, in the AI world, in the sports world, in the Facebook world.

比如，你处于一个独特的位置，考虑到所有这些

Like, you you are kind of uniquely positioned given all of

你的兴趣。

your interest.

我们想把这一切整合在一起。

We're trying to bring it all together.

我们想把这一切整合在一起。

We're trying to bring it all together.

这种做法很独特，但我觉得，顺便说一句，政府永远不会停止印钱。

Very unique way to do it, but but I think that by the way, the government's never gonna stop printing money.

所以我也觉得这些资产将来可能会更值钱。

So I do think these assets will probably be worth more in the future too.

我觉得

I think

我觉得没错。

I think that's right.

没错。

That's right.

太棒了。

Amazing.

好的。

Alright.

好，谢谢

Well, thank

非常感谢你

you very much for

来做这个，Chris。

doing this, Chris.

我们以后

We'll do

一起做。

it together in the future.

这太棒了。

This is fantastic.