Rippling首席执行官谈如何像运营产品一样规模化管理一家160亿美元以上的公司 | Anique Drumright | E283

构建一个优秀的产品团队，最终你是在招聘那些能够像创始人一样热爱并拥有你的产品的人，就像他们最初的团队那样。

Building a great product org, you're ultimately hiring for people to love and own your product the way the founders do, the way that their original team does.

你招聘的是大量的好奇心、领导力以及对执行的承诺。

You're hiring for a mess amount of curiosity and leadership and commitment to execution.

你如何利用Rippling平台的力量，通过创建工作流、建立非常精细的用户组等功能，同时努力打造最佳的产品体验？

How do you leverage the power of the Rippling platform from the ability to create workflows, create very granular groups, and so on and so on, while also striving to build the best product experience that you can.

用户组推动着Rippling所做的每一件事。

Groups are powering everything that Rippling does.

这让我的产品变得更好。

That makes my product better.

我们如何释放平台的潜力，进一步让我们的产品脱颖而出？

How do we unlock the power of the platform to further differentiate our product?

我认为，产品管理中既有趣又极具挑战的一部分是

I think that's a fun part and a really challenging part of product management is

嘿。

Hey.

这是卡洛斯，产品学校创始人，也是本播客的主持人。

This is Carlos, CEO at Product School and your host on the Product Podcast.

今天的嘉宾是安妮克·德鲁梅特，Rippling的总经理兼产品副总裁。

Today's guest is Anique Drumright, general manager and VP of product at Rippling.

Rippling在人力资源和IT领域堪称火箭般崛起，目前估值高达168亿美元，年收入正迅速突破5.7亿美元。

Rippling is an absolute rocket ship in the HR and IT space, currently commanding a massive $16,800,000,000 valuation and accelerating past $570,000,000 in annual revenue.

Rippling通过雇佣超过100位前创始人，持续保持其卓越的产品迭代速度和AI自动化能力。

Rippling maintains its incredible product velocity and AI automation by employing over 100 former founders.

在我们的对话中，安妮克分享了她打造高效产品团队的实战方法，这些经验源于她领导Uber、Loom以及如今Rippling等数十亿美元级产品的经历。

During our conversation, Anique breaks down her playbook to build high performing product teams based on her experience leading multi billion dollar products at Uber, Loom, and now Rippling.

总经理思维：现代产品领导者必须从管理未来待办事项，转向全面负责盈亏，真正以总经理的身份推动业务发展。

The GM mindset, how modern product leaders must pivot from managing a future backlog to owning a full P and L in driving the business as a true general manager.

复合型初创企业：一种战略框架，通过整合多个企业级品类，构建一体化平台，从而形成系统性的竞争壁垒。

Compound Startups, the strategic framework for building an all in one platform that creates a systemic competitive moat by consolidating multiple enterprise categories.

现场观察文化：一种反直觉的领导策略，帮助拥有四千多名员工的全球团队，同时保持初创公司般的迅猛节奏与高品质产品。

The Go and See culture, the counterintuitive leadership strategy for keeping a startup's ruthless velocity and high product quality with a global team of over 4,000 employees.

我们开始吧。

Let's dive in.

大家好。

Hello, everybody.

我非常清楚我现在处于这个环节和欢聚时光之间，所以我保证会让这次对话尽可能地互动和有趣。

I'm very aware of the fact that I'm between this and the happy hour, so I promise I'll make this as interactive and fun as as possible.

这对我来说很容易，因为我有Anique，她太棒了。

It's easy for me because I have Anique, who's awesome.

欢迎你，Anique。

Welcome, Anique.

嗨。

Hey.

别有压力。

No pressure.

我们现在正在直播《产品播客》。

So we're doing a live edition of the Product Podcast.

这是我过去六年一直主持的播客。

This is a podcast that I've been hosting for the last six years.

挺有趣的。

It's funny.

刚开始的时候，根本没人关心。

At the beginning, nobody cared.

现在很多人关心了，但当我们能面对面做这些活动、真的有观众在场时，总是更有趣。

Now a lot of people care, but it's always more fun when we get to do these things in person and there is actually an audience.

那么，我们开始吧。

So here we go.

我和Anique认识很久了。

Anique and I go way back.

你最早为Product School做出贡献，那时你好像在Uber，之后你一直随着职业发展持续为社区做事情。

You first contributed to Product School, and you were at Uber, I think, and you've been constantly doing things for the community as you continue evolving your career.

你先后在Uber、TripActions、Loom工作，现在在Rippling。

So you've worked at Uber, TripActions, Loom, and now Rippling.

是的。

Yes.

与Product School一起走过的这段路真是一段旅程。

It's been it's been a journey with Product School.

我这里有一些关于Rippling的数据，因为它们相当令人印象深刻。

I have a few stats here about Rippling because it's pretty impressive.

你们在多轮融资中筹集了约85亿美元，最新估值为168亿美元，截至2025年初，年经常性收入超过5.7亿美元。

So you guys raised approximately approximately 8,500,000,000.0 across multiple rounds at a latest valuation of 16,800,000,000, reported annual recurring revenue exceeding 570,000,000 as of early twenty twenty five.

你们拥有超过两万名客户，全球员工超过四千人，还有一项我特别喜欢的数据：有超过一百位前创始人在公司工作。

You have over 20,000 customers, over 4,000 employees globally, and there's one stat that I love, which is there's over 100 former founders working there.

对。

Yeah.

我认为其中一些数据，即使过了一年，也已经过时了。

And I think some of those stats are, even a year later, very much out of date.

我心想：什么？

I'm like, what?

听起来有点少。

That sounds a little small.

但没错，Rippling 的增长、规模以及它通过贯穿客户整个技术栈为用户提供的价值非常令人印象深刻。

But, yes, it's very impressive Rippling's growth and and scale and what it's able to do for customers by working across the entirety of their stack.

这次对话的主题是打造高绩效的产品团队。

So the theme for this conversation is building high performing product teams.

我看你的履历，你曾在 Uber、TripActions、Loom 和 Rippling 工作过，这些公司里有一些我们这一代了不起的领袖，比如 Uber 的特拉维斯·卡兰尼克，以及现在的帕克·康拉德。

I mean, as I look at your track record, you've worked at Uber, TripActions, Loom, Rippling, and there's some incredible leaders of our generation, Travis Kalanick at Uber and now Parker Conrad.

所以我很想知道，当你回溯这些经历时，有哪些模式可以解释为什么这些团队都如此高效且成功？

So curious to know as you reverse engineer this this experience, what are some of the patterns that would inform the the the fact that some of these these teams are all extremely high performing and successful?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得在 Uber，我是以个体贡献者的身份加入的。

I think it so Uber, I joined as an IC.

我很幸运，这是我进入科技行业和产品领域的起点。

I was so lucky that that was my introduction to tech, to product.

当时这家公司信奉极致的责任制。

It was a company at the time that believed in ruthless ownership.

我们可以做任何事情。

We could do anything.

我们所有人都致力于改变世界，看到这种心态在5000人、甚至10000人规模的公司中依然存在，每个员工都积极追求最佳的客户体验，这令人印象深刻。

We were all there to change the world, and it was so impressive to see that at a 5,000 person scale, 10,000 person scale, that mentality, that willingness for every employee to chase down the right customer experience.

我认为在Rippling，我加入已经一年零一个季度了，看到Rippling并行开发如此多与公司核心运营和职责紧密相连的产品，同时在帕克的领导下，孵化如此多并行创意，并极其谨慎地确保它们从平台层面完全互通，这简直令人惊叹。

And I think at Rippling, you know, I'm a year and a quarter into my journey, and it is wildly impressive to watch Rippling build so many products that are so connected to critical operations and responsibilities of a company in parallel and to watch the company, obviously led by Parker, incubate so many parallel ideas and then very carefully ensure that they are completely interoperable from a platform perspective.

我认为在TripActions和Loom，我加入时都更早一些。

And I think, you know, TripActions and Loom, I joined much earlier on.

对吧？

Right?

我们那时正处于旅程的起点。

We were at the beginning of our journeys.

我认为从这四家公司我学到的，就是打造一个出色的产品团队。

And I think what I've taken away from from all four of these companies is building a great product org.

你最终招聘的是那些能够像创始人及其原始团队一样热爱并拥有你产品的员工。

You're ultimately hiring for people to love and own your product the way the founders do, the way that their original team does.

你招聘的是充满好奇心、领导力和对执行力的坚定承诺的人。

You're hiring for a mess amounts of curiosity and leadership and commitment to execution.

我认为，这在我所参与过的所有高绩效产品团队中都一直保持一致。

And I think that's been very consistent across all of the high performing product teams that I've been a part of.

对执行力的承诺，我认为这是一个关键的术语。

Commitment of execution, I think that's a critical term here.

作为我自己也是创始人，尤其是从产品背景出发，我知道委派有多难。

As a founder myself, I especially from a product background, I know how hard it is to delegate.

尽管为了扩大规模我必须委派，但你仍然希望在很多方面深入细节。

And even though I have to in order to scale, you still want to be in the details in many ways.

所以，对于那些在早期就与杰出创始人密切合作的人来说，这种关系是怎样的呢？

So for someone who's been so involved in these early days with with exceptional founders, like, how is that relationship?

你是如何确保创始人的愿景依然体现在产品中，同时又能让你影响这一愿景并保持快速交付的？

Like, how are you able to ensure that the vision of the founder is still manifested into the product while still there's room for you to influence that vision and maintain that speed of shipping?

这是个非常好的问题。

That is a really good question.

我认为这包含两个方面。

I think there's two components of it.

一是，热爱成为高效团队的一员。

One is, like, loving being part of a high performing team.

我踢过足球。

Like, I played soccer.

我打过橄榄球。

I played rugby.

我就是痴迷于成为高效团队的一员，我认为这正是成长型初创公司以及为高效创始人工作的本质。

I'm just a junkie for wanting to be part of a high performing team, and I think that is ultimately what a growth stage startup is and what working for high performing founders is.

我认为他们也希望被这样的氛围包围，因为你必须赢得这份信任。

And I think that's what they want to be surrounded by because you have to earn that trust.

对吧？

Right?

他们承担了巨大的风险。

They took immense amounts of risk.

你必须不断努力争取加入这个团队，参与这项使命并做出贡献。

And you're constantly trying out to be on the team, right, to be on this mission and contribute.

所以对我来说，我真的很享受这个过程。

And so I think for me, I actually just really enjoy it.

因此，我尽我所能，努力达到他们对责任感、承诺和细致入微的要求。

And so I I put my best foot forward, and I try to meet their bar of ownership and commitment and thoroughness.

所以我认为其中一部分是心态问题。

So I think one piece of it is just mentality.

你带着怎样的心态去工作？

What's the mentality you're you're bringing to work?

我认为另一部分是持续学习，对他们的视角保持好奇心，明白你不可能每次都做对，但你会承担责任，并迅速改正。

I think the other piece is constantly learning and having a curiosity for their perspective and knowing that you're not gonna get it right a 100% of the time, but you're gonna own it, and you're gonna get it right really fast.

你最终希望为用户、为共同的客户打造最好的产品。

And that you you ultimately want to build the best product for customers, for joint customers.

我发现，这种态度和承诺总体上为我带来了很好的效果。

And I found that generally that approach and commitment has worked really well for me.

我想进一步深入探讨一下，针对那些在这里接受你培养的下一代领导者。

I want to try to unpack this even further for kind of the next generation of leaders that start being groomed under you here.

你提到自己是个运动员，我认为这种特质在商业世界中也能很好地迁移，因为最终，这几乎可以被看作是一场运动。

You mentioned you're an athlete, and I think some of that transfers really well to the business world because almost ultimately, this can be treated as a sport as well.

我钦佩那些知道自己不会放弃的人。

And I admire people who know they are not going to give up.

他们会拼命努力。

They are going to hustle.

他们会不择手段地完成任务。

They are going to do whatever it takes.

同时，你们现在已经有四千多名员工了，对吧？

At the same time, you're you're you guys are over 4,000 employees right now.

对吧？

Right?

所以早期阶段有一种神奇之处，对吧？那时所有人都在同一间房间里，每个人都能直接接触到创始人，所有人都在以光速前进。

So it's something magical about the early days, right, when everybody's in the same room, where everybody is has direct access to the founder, everybody's moving at the speed of light.

那么，当你需要更多地授权时，如何在这样的规模下维持这些原则、这种速度和这种渴望呢？

Now how are you able to maintain those type of principles, that type of speed and and hunger at a level where, obviously, you need to delegate more?

这不仅仅是创始人对你而言。

It's not just the founder to you.

也是你对整个团队而言。

It's also you to the rest of the team.

所以我认为这其中有一部分是组织层面的，即你能否组建出拥有单一专注目标的团队？

So I think there there's a component of it that is organizational, which is, are you able to create teams with Singular Obsessions?

对吧？

Right?

我负责IT业务。

I am I lead the IT business.

我每天每时每刻都在思考IT，这很棒。

I think about IT all day, every day, and it's great.

我有一个出色的销售团队、市场团队、产品团队和实施团队，我们都专注于这一个核心问题。

And I have an incredible sales team and marketing team and product team and implementation team, and we're all thinking about this, this singular problem.

在Rippling，你可以看到这种极致的专注贯穿始终，这让一家5000人的公司也能深度投入自己所负责的工作，这与TripActions的Ariel过去的做法非常相似。

And you'll see those extreme areas of focus throughout Rippling, which allows, you know, a 5,000 person company to deeply own the work that they are working on, it was very similar to what Ariel at TripActions used to do.

如果我们从零到一打造某个东西，就会组建一个专门的团队。

We if we were building something zero to one, it was a carved out team.

对吧？

Right?

关键是如何创造一种专注力，让一群人能全力以赴地投入某件事？

It was how do you create singular focus that allows a group of people to go as hard at something as possible?

我认为Rippling在组织层面做得特别好的另一点是确保目标可衡量。

And then I think the other component that Rippling does really well organizationally is making sure that it's measurable.

对吧？

Right?

我们如何衡量自己正在推动的方向？

How do we measure what we are driving towards?

我们如何设定看似不可能的目标，以推动自己更快前进？

How do we put goals in front of us that seem impossible so that you move faster?

对吧？

Right?

这样你就能带着速度和清晰的思维前进。

And you move with velocity and with clarity of thought.

我认为，从组织层面来看，Rippling 在这一点上做得极为出色。

And that's what I think organizationally, Rippling does exceptionally well.

然后我认为另一点是招聘，以及团队的构成。

And then I think the other piece is hiring, right, and the mixture of the team.

你们招聘的是那些渴望创造事物、打造业务、接触客户并深入掌握细节的人吗？Parker 从顶层就完美地展现了这种‘亲临现场’的态度。

And are you hiring for people who want to to create things and build businesses customers and go and see and own the details, you know, something that Parker models unbelievably well from the very top is a go and see mentality.

对吧？

Right?

如果他遇到一个不理解的客户问题，他会一直追查到底。

If there is a customer issue that he doesn't understand, he will run it all the way down.

比如，他会一直深入到聊天中，因为他想了解我们客户的实际体验。

Like, the way down to the chat because he wants to understand what is the customer experience of our customers.

产品哪里存在缺口？

Where did the product have gaps?

实施过程中哪里出了问题？

Where did the implementation have gaps?

我们能从中吸取什么教训？

What can we learn from it?

我们该如何改进？

How do we improve?

当你的首席执行官兼创始人以这种方式行事时，他就为你们设定了标准，也为全体员工设定了标准。

And when your CEO founder is operating with that way, sets the bar for you, right, and sets the bar for the rest of the employee base.

于是，你就会拥有这些具有单一专注力的团队，能够努力达到这种对责任的追求标准。

And so you have these teams that have singular focus and are able to attempt, right, to get to the that bar of ownership.

我认为这正是Rippling取得成功的关键所在。

And I think it's it's a lot of Rippling success.

我们来谈谈组织设计，因为

Let's talk about org design because

我认为你们的结构非常独特，因为你们所负责的产品已经发展到如今成为一个业务单元的程度。

I think you guys have a a very unique structure in the sense that product or the product that you own graduated to a point where it's now a business unit.

你是一名总经理，而不仅仅是产品副总裁。

You are a GM, not just the VP of Product.

对吧？

Right?

那么，一个产品要达到这个水平需要什么条件？

So what does it take for a product to get to that level?

作为总经理，你现在在衡量整个业务单元的成功时，与以往有什么不同？

And what is the difference for you now as as the GM in terms of how you're measuring success for the entire business unit?

是的。

Yep.

对于Loom，我们也朝这个方向发展了，但方式略有不同，因为原因不同：它是一个以产品驱动增长的模式，我们发现产品、营销和销售高度交织，以单一业务单元运作比矩阵式管理更有效。

And I would say with Loom, we also moved in that direction, and that was a little bit differently because for different reasons, it was a product led growth motion, and it became very clear that product marketing sales were very much intertwined, and it would be more successful for us to operate as a single business unit rather than matrixed.

我认为对于Rippling来说，这关乎于如何提供最佳的客户体验。

I think for Rippling, it has to do with, in many ways, like, what's the best customer experience?

对吧？

Right?

如果我正在和一个实施人员合作，而这个人正在为我实施薪酬系统，那么当同一个人为你实施IT系统时，客户体验会同样好吗？

If I'm working with someone on implementation that is implementing me on payroll, is that gonna be as strong if that same person implements you, is that as strong of customer experience as someone who's getting implemented for IT, for example?

这种体验贯穿整个流程，一直到实施后支持人员为你提供服务。

And that goes all the way through down to the end of, like, a support agent supporting you after you've been implemented.

我认为这确实源于从销售、实施和产品角度出发，什么样的客户体验才是理想的。

And I think that it it really does come from the place of what's the ideal customer experience from a sales perspective, an implementation perspective, a product perspective.

如果你正试图在这一领域实现增长的跨越式提升，难道不是让所有这些职能作为一个团队协同工作，更有可能成功吗？

And if you are building and trying to make a step change in growth in that area of the business, isn't it more likely to succeed if all of those functions are working as a single team?

尤其是对于有产品背景的人来说，这还会影响整个公司的文化。

Especially for someone who comes from a product background, I think it also influences the entire culture for the company.

比如，你会对所构建的产品有一种关怀，这种关怀与来自销售等其他背景的总经理是不同的。

Like, there's a care for what you are building that is different than if that GM would come from a different background such as sales, for example.

所以，当你建立自己的业务单元时，也会存在一些冗余，因为你最终是在建立一个业务，而可能还有另一位总经理在建立他们自己的业务。

So the trade off as well is that as you build your own business unit, there might be some redundancy because you're ultimately building a business, and maybe there's another GM building their own own business.

那么，你如何确保有共享服务、共同的目标，而不是让不同的总经理朝不同方向推动呢？

So how do you ensure that there's actually shared services and, like, a common goal and we don't have different GMs pushing in different directions?

我觉得这是个非常好的问题。

I think that's a really good question.

我认为我们正在不断进化，我们知道很多事情做对了，也有一些地方做错了。

I think that we are evolving and we're you know, we get many things right and a few things wrong.

但我认为，Rippling的首席营收官马特·普林克在支持业务单元方面做得非常出色，他始终保持参与，提供支持，确保各业务单元取得成功，同时也确保客户成功，因为客户可能希望将Rippling的使用范围扩展到IT、薪资和支出等多个领域。

But I think, you know, Matt Plink, who's the CRO of Rippling, has done an incredible job of supporting the business units and ensuring that he's staying involved and he's supporting to make sure that the units are successful and also to make sure that the customers are successful as they may wanna, you know, expand their Rippling footprint across IT, across payroll, across spend.

我想谈谈这里的扩展模式，因为你亲身经历了Loom的发展，我认为它是PLG模式中巨大成功案例的先驱之一。

I want to talk about the the expansion motion here because you you live through Loom, which is, I think, one of the pioneers of these huge success cases in in the PLG motion.

对吧？

Right?

最终还促成了它被Atlassian收购。

And eventually led to an acquisition by Atlassian.

Rippling 在某种程度上也是如此，尽管他们有平台愿景，但最初只有一些零散的解决方案，却迅速扩张了。

Rippling, kind of the same in a way, even though they had as platform aspirations, they they had some few point solutions, and they expanded rapidly.

那么，对于还没有建立平台的公司来说，这种扩张模式是什么样的呢？

So what is that motion for, let's say, a company that doesn't have a platform in place?

我们不妨说，这是一家正试图打造首个 HR 和 IT 平台的初创公司。

Let's call it like a startup that is trying to get their first HR and IT platform.

你如何才能证明足够的价值，从而有可能扩展到其他领域？

And how do you kind of prove enough value to potentially expand into other verticals?

我认为，对于 Rippling 来说，关键洞察在于，你所有的业务运营都依赖于员工数据。

I think for Rippling, the key insight is all of your business operations run off of employee data.

对吧？

Right?

每个新加入公司的员工，都会入职，领工资， hopefully。

Every person who joins a company, they start, they get a paycheck, hopefully.

他们还会拿到一台电脑。

They get a computer.

他们还能访问各种应用程序。

They get access to apps.

也许他们需要提交费用报销。

Maybe they need to run an expense report.

现在，如果我想起IT部门，我刚看过一份用户调查，结果显示有65%的IT团队在使用七种以上不同的产品。

And, you know, right now, if I think about IT, I think I just looked at a user survey, and it was like 65% of IT teams are using over seven different products.

而且，有13%的团队在使用十种甚至十三种以上的产品。

And, like, 13% are using over 10 or over 13.

但这带来了大量的管理负担。

But it's just a lot of overhead.

所以，如果你正在创办一家公司，为什么还要去跟二三十家不同的供应商打交道呢？

And so if you are starting a company, why on earth would you wanna be talking to 20 or 30 different vendors?

而且，在招聘、离职、团队调整或组织重组时，效率也会大幅提升。

And then there's all of this efficiency when you're hiring, when you're off boarding, when you're changing teams, when you're reorging.

因为我们掌握了所有员工数据，所以能够简化所有这些流程。

Because we own all of that employee data, we can just streamline all of those all of those activities.

这完全说得通。

And that makes total sense.

我想起以前，不知怎么的，我们搞错了方向，很多人只想买一个工具来解决单一问题。

I think back in the day, somehow, we got it twisted where a lot of people wanted to build to to buy a tool for a single solution.

下一次，当你需要深入细节并完成整个流程时，你就得去买一个平台了。

And the next time you know, you have to go in the details and do the whole thing, buy a platform.

平台的权衡在于，由于它们没有单一的专注点，因此无法在所有方面都做到最好。

The trade off with the platform sometimes is that because they don't have that singular focus, they cannot be the best at everything.

所以从产品角度来看，我想更深入地了解，人们选择平台的原因，除了便利性和可能的成本节约之外，是否也包括产品的质量？

So from a product perspective, I want to understand more about how do you ensure that the reason why someone would buy a platform is not just convenience and maybe cost savings, but also, like, quality of the product?

我认为这就是产品经理的职责。

I think that's the role of the product manager.

我认为这正是在Rippling担任产品经理如此有趣的原因。

I think that's what makes being a PM at Rippling really fun.

你如何利用Rippling平台的强大功能，通过创建工作流、建立非常精细的用户组等等，同时努力打造最佳的产品体验？

How do you leverage the power of the Rippling platform from the ability to create workflows, create very granular groups, and so on and so on while also striving to build the best product experience that you can.

是的

Yeah.

我认为这就是产品经理的职责

I think that's the job of

产品经理。

the PM.

很高兴你对此如此清晰，也许我们可以分享一些经验，因为我亲身经历了这一演变过程。

Well, I'm glad that it's so clear to you, and maybe we can share some of that because I've lived through this evolution.

十二年前我刚开始做产品时，产品管理甚至还不算酷。

When started product school like twelve years ago, product management wasn't even cool.

所以很多人会问，产品经理是什么？

So a lot of people would come and say, what is a product manager?

他们应该做些什么？

What are they supposed to do?

我认为在早期，很多工作都围绕着用户满意度，而不是将用户满意度与业务成果结合起来。

And I think early days, a lot of that was around just user satisfaction, not so much bridging that user satisfaction with with business outcomes.

显然，现在的情况已经完全不同了，人们的期望也高得多。

Obviously, with a in a whole different world now where the expectations are much higher.

但就你而言，当你思考你们产品团队的职责时，你们如何真正确保他们平衡好这两项重要的工作？

But in your case specifically, as you think about the responsibilities of your product team, how are you really ensuring that they are balancing those those two important pieces?

我认为平台并没有提升Singular产品。

I think there's also platform does not enhance the Singular product.

我不同意这个观点，因为从平台的角度来看，你们可以大力投资于群组功能，因为群组支撑着Rippling的所有功能。

And I would I would disagree with that because, you know, from a platform perspective, you're able to invest really, really heavily in, let's say, groups because groups are powering everything that Rippling does.

这意味着，当我构建访问管理工具时，我可能拥有市场上最强大的细粒度群组功能之一。

That means when I'm building an access management tool, I probably have one of the most powerful granular groups capabilities out in the market.

这使我的产品更出色。

That makes my product better.

所以我认为关键在于以这种思维来构建产品，并确保在进行产品评审时，我们思考如何释放平台的力量，进一步提升我们产品的差异化优势？

And so I think it's about taking that mentality to building products and ensuring that as we're doing product reviews, we're thinking about how do we unlock the power of the platform to further differentiate our product?

我们如何跨越IT和HR等不同产品线，释放更多价值？

How do we reach across product lines within IT, within HR and IT to unlock more value?

我认为最清晰的例子，或者说对我来说最典型的例子，就是招聘体验。

And I think the the clearest example or, like, go to example for me is is really in the hiring experience.

对吧？

Right?

在传统产品中，你雇了五个人，然后给IT部门开一个工单。

In a traditional product, you hire five people and then you create a ticket for IT.

但在Rippling，这一切都一步到位。

With Rippling, that's all right?

你只需要说：好的。

You just are like, yep.

我要雇这个人。

I need to hire that person.

我要寄出那台设备。

I need to send that device.

他肯定需要访问这些权限。

They should definitely have access to that.

对吧？

Right?

整个流程完全 streamlined，这是一种完全不同的产品开发方式

It's completely streamlined, and it's just a really different way to

来开展产品开发。

approach product development.

我认为这种思维方式在没有遗留系统的公司中尤其强大，因为为什么不从零开始这样做呢？

And I think that mindset is especially powerful in companies that don't have legacy because why wouldn't they start from scratch that way?

但当你也去与那些可能已经部署了一些独立解决方案的大型企业合作时，你如何渗透这些客户？

But when you also go and work with larger enterprises that may have some of those point solutions in place, how do you kind of penetrate that account?

如果他们还不准备采用一体化平台，你如何仍能找到方法提供一些价值，以便在未来逐步扩展？

And if they're not ready to go for an all in one platform, still find ways to deliver some value so you can potentially expand as you go?

我的意思是，我认为所有面向客户的团队，都必须认真倾听客户的声音。

I mean, I think all customer facing teams, it's it's really important to listen to your customers.

对吧？

Right?

如果你倾听他们的痛点，了解你的产品最擅长解决哪些问题，你就能找到正确的切入点、合适的节奏以及合作方式。

If you listen to their problems and you understand the products that your product is really good at solving, you will find the right in, the right pace, the right way to partner.

但我认为这始于倾听并提出真正有价值的问题

But I think it begins with listening and asking really good questions

针对任何评估你产品的人。

of anyone evaluating your product.

假设你现在就处于这种情境中。

Let's say you are in that scenario right now.

这是一个大型企业。

It's large enterprise.

他们会说，嘿，阿尼克。

They will say like, hey, Anique.

我非常喜欢你的产品。

I love your product.

我明白。

I get it.

但你看，我现在被逼到角落了，我觉得现在产品团队的一个优点是，他们开始从商业角度思考了。

But look, I'm using this Really putting me on the spot on this I think the good thing about product teams now is that they are thinking business.

对吧？

Right?

而你显然是一位商业领袖。

And you are you are obviously a a business leader.

因此，对于很多正在向上市场拓展、并面临已有 incumbent 嵌入系统的人而言，他们很想知道如何通过集成或其他方式找到切入点，从而保留未来扩展的主动权。

So very curious for a lot of folks in the room as they are moving upmarket and facing a situation where there is a incumbent already in the system, and they have to figure out some sort of entryway via integrations or something else to still have the agency to eventually expand.

但我很好奇，你是如何证明这个概念的，让这些人即使还没准备好全面部署整个平台，也能愿意让你进入他们的系统？

But I'm curious to know how are you able to kind of prove prove that concept in ways that allows these people to get you in the door even if they're not ready to dev you know, deploy the entire platform.

我的意思是，我认为Rippling最有力的证明之一，就是它让团队的效率提升了很多。

I mean, I think one of the greatest proof points of Rippling is how much more efficient we make teams.

对吧？

Right?

你不需要一个20人的团队来做这件事，这个产品实际上能以一种全新的方式帮助你实现规模化。

That you don't need to have, you know, a 20 person team to do this thing, that the product actually enables you to scale in a different way.

Rippling的使命是让聪明的人专注于解决难题。

The mission of Rippling is to free smart people to work on hard problems.

我认为，我们与客户合作的产品的核心投资回报率在于：如何确保你的团队专注于最困难的任务，而不是那些行政或运营工作——而这些工作恰恰是Rippling产品能为你高效承担的？

And I think that's really the ROI of the product that we partner with customers on is how do we ensure that your team is working on the hardest things versus, let's say, admin work or operational work that that the Rippling product can can really take care of for you?

我刚才在听，非常喜欢这一点。

I was listening, and I love that.

每次听到有人谈论投资回报率，我都觉得太棒了。

Every time I I I hear someone talk about ROI, like, great.

你说到我心坎里了。

You're speaking my language.

因为最终，高管们关心的正是这一点。

Because, like, ultimately, that's what an executive would would care about.

对吧？

Right?

这如何为客户提供更多价值，帮我赚更多钱，或者降低成本？

How is this going to deliver more value to customers, make me more money, reduce some cost?

我上周听了帕克在红杉播客中的访谈。

I was listening to Parker's interview at the Sequoia podcast last week.

太棒了。

So good.

太棒了。

So good.

他提到一点，他分析了使用Rippling竞争对手的公司与使用Rippling的公司中HR或IT团队的规模，发现使用Rippling的公司团队规模大约只有一半。

And and one of the things he said is that he was able to analyze what is the size of the HR or IT teams for the companies that use a competitor of Rippling versus the size of the teams of the companies that use Rippling, and it was around half the size for the teams that use Rippling.

值得注意的是，这虽然是唯一的成功指标，但却是非常有力地证明了：通过更好的解决方案，你可以自动化工作流程，更快地实现价值，最终可能需要更少的人力。

And note that that's the only success metric that but it was, like, such a powerful way to demonstrate that with a better solution, you can actually automate workflows, and you can probably get to value much faster with eventually less headcount.

没错。

Absolutely.

所以我也想稍微转变一下话题，谈谈你作为总经理，刚开始分配资源时的思考方式。

So I also want to kind of pivot the conversation a little bit more and and and talk about how you're thinking now as a as a GM as you start, you know, allocating bets.

对吧？

Right?

现在已经是相当大的生意了，有太多方向可以探索。

Like, pretty big business now, and there's so many directions you can take it to.

所以房间里有不同的声音。

So and and there are sort of voices in the room.

对吧？

Right?

除了听客户、听创始人、听自己之外，这个练习到底是什么？

So other than listening to customers, listening to your founder, listening to yourself, like, what is that exercise?

在第四季度，时机正好，来做战略规划。

Where in q four, perfect timing, you know, to do the strategy planning.

你是怎么进行战略规划的？

Like, how are you approaching strategy planning?

你今天一整天都跟我在一起。

Like, you were with me all day today.

我觉得在做规划时，我通常会先想清楚：哪一两件事会带来突破性的投入？

I think what when in planning, what I generally like to start with is what are one or two things that will be a step change bet?

我不是说这些一定能100%奏效，但如果其中一两件事成功了，那就是一个质的飞跃。

I'm not saying it's gonna work a 100%, but if one or two of these things work, it's a step change.

所以我心里一直有个念头，没错。

So I always kind of know that in the back of my head of, yes.

我真的想在这里放手一搏。

I really do wanna take a swing here.

然后我觉得另一部分是深入理解以往的支持反馈和客户反馈。

And then I think the other piece is being really steeped in what has been the support feedback, what's been the customer feedback.

我们有一个很棒的IT Wavemakers项目，类似于客户顾问委员会。

We have a great IT Wavemakers program, which is similar to a customer advisory board.

我的销售团队在分享什么？

What is my sales team sharing?

我自己在和客户交流时听到了什么？无论是用户研究访谈，还是与大客户的发布会议等等？

What have I heard from talking to customers myself, whether it's UXR calls or, you know, launch calls with larger customers, etcetera?

然后这就带点艺术性了。

And then it's a bit of an art.

对吧？

Right?

有这么多科学方法，你会获得大量数据，但你也需要考虑这些工作领域是如何相互关联的？

There's all this science science of you're gonna get tons of data, but then you also need to take into account how do these bodies of work interconnect?

对我们来说，最有效的方式是什么样的排序顺序？

What is the most efficient way for us to sequence it?

工程团队在提供哪些反馈？或者他们有没有关于如何以不同方式解决这个具体问题的创新想法？

What is engineering giving feedback on or they have an innovative idea on on how we could solve this specific issue in a different way.

这就是你如何进入排序的过程。

And that's how you get into sequencing.

但总的来说，我总是喜欢先从一两件能带来显著增长或体验提升的事情开始。

But I think in general, I always like to start with what are one or two things that would be a step change either in growth or in experience.

然后在此基础上，有哪些可以对市场上产品进行的重大——甚至不一定是重大，但切实重要的改进领域？

And then from there, what are, like, the large not even large, but, like, meaty buckets of improvements we could make to to the product out in market?

所以这总是这两方面的结合。

And so it's always a combination of those two things.

比如大的赌注或重大突破，搭配一些小的胜利，或者另一个类别是什么？

Like big bets or step up changes with kind of smaller wins, or what is that other bucket?

是的。

Yeah.

有时候人们会提到巨石、岩石和沙子。

I mean, sometimes people talk about, like, boulders, rocks, and sand.

我觉得这种说法相当有帮助。

I think that's, like, relatively helpful.

但我觉得，作为领导者，你越能明确聚焦于这两项重大投入，以及那三到五件你坚信必须修复和改进的事情，你的思路就越清晰。

But I think as much as you can narrow the focus on, like, these are the two larger investments we wanna make, and these are the three to five things that we just believe is the right thing to to go fix, to go improve upon, and you have that clarity of thought as the leader.

作为IT套件负责人，我确实对整个套件有清晰的思路，但每个产品经理都必须对哪些是自己的重大赌注有绝对清晰的认识。

And it's like, yes, I, as a as the IT suite lead, I have the clarity of of thought for for the suite, but then every single product manager needs to have that absolute clarity of thought of these are my big bets.

哪些是接下来同样重要的事项，我会抽调团队的这部分人去专注这些重大投入。

These are the next set of things that are also really important, and I'm gonna be carving out this portion of my team to go work on this larger investment.

而团队的另一部分则系统性地推进这些改进、优化，以及解决阻碍销售的障碍。

And I'm gonna have this other portion of my my team methodically working through these improvements, these enhancements, these these blockers to sales.

我认为这通常会带来一个更健康的路线图，但这一切都始于清晰的思考。

And I think that generally leads to a healthier road map, but it all begins with clarity of thought.

那么你在这两大部分之间，也就是重大投入与中期成果之间，如何分配精力呢？

And and how much kind of energy do you allocate between

这两大部分，比如重大投入与中期成果之间的分配？

those two big blocks, like the big bets versus the the more midterm wins?

我是一个非常注重仪式感的人。

I'm a very ritualistic person.

因此，从产品路线图的角度来看，我的每周安排通常都是一样的。

So my weeks generally always look the same from a product road map perspective.

我总会在周一留出时间，专门梳理一到两个关键投资领域，同时我也会与各个产品负责人和工程负责人会面，了解路线图其他部分的执行状况——这些部分旨在改进产品、消除销售障碍，并支持面向客户的团队，因为客户需求是不断出现的。

So I always have time on Mondays to go through the the one or two key investments areas, but then I also meet with the various product leads and engineering leads to understand the health of how how are we metabolizing the other portions of the road maps that are to improve the product, to unblock sales, and also to to support our customer facing teams because customer needs constantly arise.

我认为，管理这些涌现的问题和机遇，正是产品管理中既有趣又极具挑战的部分。

And I think that's a fun part and a really challenging part of product management is managing these emerging problems and opportunities.

我热爱仪式感。

I love rituals.

我对这个特别着迷。

I'm a geek for that.

所以我确实需要在这方面多学习一些。

So I I definitely need to learn more on that.

比如，如果我仔细看看你的日程，找出一些主要主题，你通常是怎么分配时间的？

Like, if I were to zoom into your calendar and identify some of those major themes, like, how do you usually kind of allocate your time?

对你来说，有哪些关键主题？

What are some of those key themes for you?

我的意思是，最重要的是在周一弄清楚你的关键团队在季度承诺的重大事项上进展如何，并且了解一下过去一周是否出现了任何新信息。

I mean, I think the the biggest thing is that on Monday is understanding where your key teams are on either big rocks in in quarterly commitments and, you know, a touch base on on how any new information that may have risen over the last week.

所以我会在周一上午分别与各个产品负责人和工程负责人进行主题会议。

And so I basically do thematic Monday morning meetings with the various product leads and and eng leads.

然后我喜欢在周末安排一次团队会议。

And then I like to end the week with a team meeting.

这样你就为一周做了标记。

So you you bookmark your week.

那中间呢？

And then what's in between?

产品评审。

Product reviews.

营销评审。

Marketing reviews.

所以，具体细节上。

So, like, in the details.

是的。

Yes.

我认为，这种做法不仅在创始人中很常见，在那些表现卓越的高管中也是如此。

I think that is a commonality I've observed across not just founders, but, like, really high performing executives.

这显然是一个可以授权出去的地方，但总有一部分需要亲自核实，因为这很重要。

It's obviously a place to delegate, but there is always a verified piece that it's important to kind

为卓越定下基调。

of set the tone for what's excellence.

我还要说，每周抽出时间去实地看看，这正是Rippling文化的重要组成部分。

I also would say that during the week, and this is very much a part of the Rippling culture, is carving out time to go and see.

所以，听销售电话、观察用户研究访谈，了解你的产品是如何被使用、如何被体验的，我认为这正是Rippling能够如此成功扩张的关键原因——得益于这种‘走出去看’的文化。

So listening to sales calls, watching, you know, UXR calls and understanding how your product's being used, how that's being experienced is, I think a lot of the reason as to why Rippling has been able to scale the way that it has is because of this go and see culture.

每个人每周都会专门腾出时间去实地看看，确保自己真正理解这些情况。

And every single person is carving out time during the week to go and see and make sure that you actually understand it.

无论是亲自做竞品调研、阅读客户支持工单、参加销售电话，还是观看Gongs录音，抽出时间去实地观察都极其重要。

Whether it's competitive research that you're personally doing or reading support tickets or joining sales calls or watching Gongs, it's really, really important to carve out that time to go and see.

我可以坦诚地说，当我感受到自己处于低谷时——每个人在工作和职业生涯中都会经历起起落落——回顾我在Rippling的经历，我学到的一点是：当我真正抽出时间去实地观察时，我会感觉更加投入、更能掌控自己的角色。

And I can tell you personally when I feel really on everyone goes through ebbs and flows in in their in their job, in their career, and I can say one thing that I've learned reflecting on my time at Rippling, I feel so much more present and on top of my role when I am carving out that time to go and see.

我认为，高效团队的一个关键方面，就是把时间合理投入到真正重要的事情上。

One of the, I think, critical aspects of being a high performing team is investing the right amount of time on the things that matter.

过去，我们所处的文化是‘朝九晚五’的工作生活平衡。

And, you know, like, we come from a culture in the past of, like, oh, nine to five work life balance.

但现在，我们看到越来越多的公司正在走向‘996’文化。

Think now we're seeing more and more companies approaching the nine nine six culture.

我不确定这两种极端中的任何一种都是正确的，但我很好奇，你对成为Rippling高绩效团队所需的努力程度和时间投入有什么看法？

And I'm not sure either extreme is is the right one, but I'm curious to know what is your take on the level of commitment and and time investment that's required to be part of a high performing team at Rippling?

这是个有趣的问题。

That's an interesting question.

我认为这要回到我一开始说的，那就是：嘿。

I think it goes back to what I said at the beginning, which is, hey.

你加入的是一家高速成长的初创公司。

You're joining a high growth stage startup.

你选择加入Rippling。

You're joining Rippling.

你选择来为Parker工作。

You're choosing to come work for Parker.

这难道不令人兴奋吗？

Isn't that exciting?

这难道不有趣吗？

Isn't that fun?

我认为，每个人在这种环境下的表现形式都截然不同，但在任何真正致力于打造公司和业务的环境中，想要取得成功，没有其他途径。

And what that looks like for everyone, I think, looks really different, but I don't think there's any way to succeed in that environment or in any company where you're truly building a company, a business.

有很多员工和客户，并不具备高度的主人翁意识。

There are many employees, many customers without high levels of ownership.

依我的经验，真正合适的人知道这意味着什么、会如何体现，他们会全程主动承担责任，无论这表现为：嘿。

And I think in my experience, the right people know what that means and what it looks like, and they are gonna own it all the way through, whether that looks like, hey.

我每天九点到四点工作，然后晚上再加几个小时。

I'm working nine to four, and then I'm gonna work for a couple hours in the evening.

我对这些没有强烈的意见。

I don't have strong opinions on it.

感谢你抽出时间与我们分享这些见解。

Well, thank you for carving out time to sharing some of those insights with with all of us.

这是一次愉快的经历。

It's a pleasure.

能够从你打造卓越产品和背后优秀团队的亲身经历中学习，真是太好了。

It's great to learn from your own experience building great products and great teams behind those those products.

谢谢。

So thank you.

非常感谢你。

You so much.

这很有趣。

It was fun.