二十多岁时的金钱新规则——与杰克·雷恩斯

很多公司都在投资人工智能，但大多数公司只有一小部分人在真正使用它，而真正看到价值的人就更少了。

A lot of companies are investing in AI, but most only have a small group actually using it, and an even smaller group who are really seeing the value.

Superhuman 解决了这个问题。

Superhuman fixes that.

来自 Grammarly 的开发者，Superhuman AI 存在于你的团队已经在使用的每一个工具中。

From the makers of Grammarly, Superhuman AI lives in every tool your team already uses.

比如，帮助起草文稿、生成摘要等等。

For instance, help with drafts, summaries, and more.

这样，习惯和熟练度就会自然形成。

So habits and proficiency form naturally.

当你团队中的每个人都能发挥出最佳水平时，你的人工智能投资才开始产生复利效应。

When every person on your team works at their best, that's when your AI investment starts to compound.

访问 superhuman.com，看看 Superhuman 能做什么。

See what superhuman can do at superhuman.com.

生活中充满了不可避免的、令人不快的经历。

Life is full of inevitable, unpleasant experiences.

但多亏了现代医学，围绝经期不一定要成为其中之一。

But thanks to modern medicine, perimenopause doesn't have to be one of them.

现在仍然有一种观念，认为我们必须忍受它。

There is still this idea that we have to suffer through it.

我想对所有听众说，忍受不仅是不必要的。

And I am here to say to anyone listening that suffering not only is unnecessary.

最后没有奖赏，反而会损害你的健康。

There's no metal at the end, but it will derail your health.

本周的《给我解释一下》节目，将探讨如何在变化来临前应对。

This week on Explain It To Me, how to navigate the change before the change.

每周日，在你收听播客的任何平台，都能找到新一期节目。

Find new episodes, Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts.

第407集，407是佛罗里达中部的区号。

Episode 407 Versa is the area code for Central Florida.

2007年，布兰妮·斯皮尔斯剃了光头。

In 2007, Britney Spears shaved her head.

真事。

True story.

我打算做一个音乐剧，讲一群高中生，他们发现班里最没天赋的同学居然成了超级巨星，简直吓坏了。

I'm gonna do a musical drama about a group of high school students who are just horrified at the least talented person in their class becomes a huge pop star.

剧名就叫《布兰妮的同学》。

It's called Britney's peers.

哦，我知道。

Oh, I know.

我们得做得更好。

We need to do better.

开始。

Go.

开始。

Go.

开始。

Go.

欢迎收听《Prof G播客》第四百零七期。

Welcome to the four hundred and seventh episode of the Prof G Pod.

最近怎么样？

What's happening?

今天这期节目，我们分享的是与杰克·雷恩斯的现场对话。他是Substack平台的写作者，也是《年轻财富》——一本关于二十多岁如何积累财富和寻找人生目标的指南——的作者。

In today's episode, we're sharing our live conversation with Jack Raines, Substack writer and author of Young Money, a field guide to wealth and purpose in your twenties.

如果你不想错过我们的下一场直播——我相信你肯定不想——以及我们在Substack上的其他独家内容，可以在profgmedia.com订阅。

If you don't wanna miss our next livestream, which I'm sure you don't, our other content exclusive to Substack, you can subscribe at profgmedia.com.

网址是profgmedia.com。

That's profgmedia.com.

那么，希望你喜欢我们和杰克·雷恩斯的这场对话。

With that, we hope you enjoy our conversation with Jack Raines.

下午好，欢迎来到我们的Prof G Plus直播。

Good afternoon and welcome to our Prof G plus livestream.

今天，我们请到了杰克·雷恩斯，他主理着Substack上很受欢迎的新闻通讯《年轻财富》。

Today we're joined by Jack Raines who writes the popular Substack newsletter, Young Money.

他的新书《年轻财富：二十多岁财富与目标指南》下周就要出版了。

His new book Young Money, A Field Guide to Wealth and Purpose in Your Twenties is out next week.

杰克，感谢你来做客。

Jack, thanks for joining us.

斯科特，谢谢你的邀请。

Scott, thanks for having me.

那我们就直接进入正题吧。

So let's bust right into it.

我们在Prof G这里给年轻人的一般建议是，工作与生活的平衡是个神话，只有取舍。你知道，这只是我的看法，不一定对，但你可以把职业生涯想象成一颗炮弹或火箭，大部分燃料都消耗在试图冲出稠密的大气层上。

Our general advice here at Prof G is that young people, or for young people, the work life balance is a myth and that there's only trade offs and that, you know, and again, it's my way, it may not be the right way, but you think about your career as a projectile or a rocket, the majority of the fuel is expectorated trying to get out of the soupy inner atmosphere.

我觉得职业生涯也是一样的道理。

And I feel that the same is true in your career.

在二十多岁的时候，需要投入大量精力来建立势头，让自己脱颖而出，把职业生涯推上轨道，这样一旦进入太空，就能用很少的推力覆盖很远的距离。

It takes a lot of fuel to establish momentum in your twenties and differentiate yourself and put your career on trajectory such that once in space, you can cover a lot of distance with a little amount of thrust.

第一百万美元肯定是最难赚的，或者说头一万美元是最难的。

And that is the first million is definitely the hardest or the first 10,000 is hard.

然后接下来的1万就容易多了，而且我觉得会越来越轻松。

And then the next 10,000 gets easier and then it gets I think it gets easier.

所以我认为，年轻时那些早期的取舍是值得的，因为它们能为你以后的生活带来更多选择权和更好的生活方式。

So and I would argue that some of those early trade offs early in life are worth it for the optionality and lifestyle it gives you later in life.

再说一遍，让我先声明一下我的立场。

Again, let me do my land acknowledgment.

这并不适用于所有人。

Not for everyone.

很多人决定工作是为了生活，而不是为了工作而活。

Most a lot of people decide they wanna work to live, not live to work.

总之，杰克，你的新书《年轻财富：二十多岁实现财富与目标的实用指南》宣扬的几乎是相反的观点，那就是年轻人应该多花时间、少存钱，去追求现在真正想做的事情——旅行、创业、一时兴起就搬家——趁他们还年轻，还能享受这些，而不是指望等到自己舒适了再去做。

Anyways, Jack, your upcoming book, Young Money, preaches pretty much the opposite, and that is young people should spend more time, save less, and chase the things they actually wanna do now, travel, start a business, move on a whim while they're still young enough to enjoy them rather than banking on doing it once, they're comfortable.

换句话说，年轻时不要为了财务稳定而过度优化。

In other words, don't optimize for financial stability when you're young.

跟我们说说，为什么你推荐那条路，而不是我走的路，以及你在自己的生活中是如何意识到这一点的。

Tell us why you recommend that path versus the one I took and how you came to that realization in your own personal life.

所以我也得先声明一下，如果你负债很多，那完全别听我接下来要说的。

So I'll also make my own land acknowledgment that like, if you have a lot of debt, completely ignore anything I'm about to say.

那可能是个坏主意，等等等等。

It's probably a bad idea, blah blah blah.

就是说，很多建议的前提是，如果你处于一个能做出与众不同选择的位置，那么年轻时这么做可能很有价值。

Like there's, a lot of this comes from if you're in a place where you can do something differentiated or different, there's probably a lot of value in doing that if you're young.

如果你欠着四万美元的信用卡债，或者十万美元的学生贷款，那还是先把债还了吧。

If you're like $40,000 in credit card debt, a $100,000 in student debt, you should probably pay off the debt.

但说到我的核心观点，我其实很大程度上同意你的看法——二十多岁打好职业基础很重要。我关于尝试其他事情、承担其他风险的建议，和你说的其实差别不大，因为年轻时你的开销低，大概率没孩子、没结婚，时间上有很多选择，可以尝试和体验各种不同的事情。

But to get to my main point there, I actually largely agree with you that like setting the foundation for your career matters a lot in your twenties, and a lot of my advice for like doing other stuff and taking other risks isn't that different from what you're talking about in that because your burn rate is lower, you probably don't have kids, you're probably not married, you just have a ton of optionality in what you can do with your time when you're young, and you can try and experiment with a lot of different stuff.

所以我真正的建议，与其说是你应该在事业上努力还是不该努力，不如说你应该去尝试那些以后可能没机会做的事。因为将来你可能会因为孩子、房贷，或者口味和欲望的改变而变得更保守。但二十多岁时有些你想做的事，年轻时享受起来其实花不了多少钱，而且老了可能就做不了了。

So like my actual advice is less so about like you should work hard in your career or shouldn't work hard in your career, but you should take shots that you probably won't be able to take later in life because you are gonna have to be more risk averse because you have kids or you have a mortgage or your just tastes and desires are gonna be different, but there's a subset of things that you're probably gonna want to do in your twenties that actually cost a lot less money to enjoy when you're young than they will older when you're older, and also, like, you might not be able to do them when you're older.

比如我自己的例子，我在读商学院之前花了一年时间背包旅行欧洲和拉丁美洲，住青年旅社，玩得特别开心。

Like, my version of this was I'd spent a year backpacking Europe and Latin America before business school, and I was living in hostels, and I had a blast.

就是那种，你睡在上下铺，和十二个人挤一个房间。

You're, like, in a bunk bed with, like, 12 roommates.

我现在29岁了。

Again, I'm 29 now.

听起来挺可怕的。

That sounds horrible.

24岁的时候，那真的很有意思，那是我特别想去的一次旅行，我想趁自己还年轻，还能享受那种廉价刺激和冒险的时候去。

At 24, it was a ton of fun, and that was just a trip I really wanted to do, and I wanted to do it when I was young enough that like I could enjoy the cheap thrills and adventure.

不过，就像你说的，我一直有个计划，就是我已经被一所不错的商学院录取了。

But to your point, I always had a plan where I had gotten into a good business school.

我知道，我职业生涯的大部分进展和收入潜力，大概要到27岁以后，也就是从商学院毕业之后才会体现出来。

I knew that like most of my career progression and earnings potential would come, call it age 27 and after once I graduated from business school.

所以对我来说，就是有一个我想去体验的有趣冒险，而且有一个非常明确的时间窗口去做这件事，知道有截止日期，所以我就去做了。

So to me, it was like I had this fun adventure I wanted to do and a very finite defined window when it made sense to do it, knowing there was an end date, so I went for it.

在谨慎理财的建议，比如养成健康的储蓄习惯，和趁还能动多创造美好回忆的建议之间，你如何平衡？

What's your advice for navigating the tension between prudent financial advice like building healthy saving habits with the optimize for good memories while you still can advice?

我觉得债务其实是个关键因素。

The I think debt is a big part of it actually.

如果你不欠别人钱，又年轻，其实你的处境还不错。

Like if you don't owe anybody money and you're young, you're actually in a good spot.

我是这么想的：我的第一份工作是在亚特兰大为UPS做企业财务，我记得年薪大概是五万六千美元，这不算多，但我的房租每月也就一千二到一千三，因为我在亚特兰大，不是在纽约、旧金山或洛杉矶。

Again, the the way I think about it is like my first job, I made I think like $56,000 working in corporate finance for UPS in Atlanta, which isn't that much money, but my rent was also 1,200, $1,300 a month because, again, I was in Atlanta, not New York, SF, LA.

所以我的生活成本真的很低。

So my cost of living was just really low.

如果必要的话，我每个月大概两千美元就能生活，对吧？

Like, if I had to, I could have lived on like 2,000 a month, right?

所以，如果你赚得不多，但开销很低，我觉得为了省点钱而错过和朋友一起的欢乐夜晚、一次有趣的旅行，或者那些能创造美好回忆的即兴活动，是很不划算的——尤其是当你二十三、四岁的时候，你知道未来还有五六十年甚至七十年可以回味这些经历。

So at that point, if you're not making that much money, but your burn rate's really low, I think it's a really bad trade off to skip out on like a fun night out with friends or a fun trip or just like doing that spontaneous thing that could create a fun memory when you're 23 or 24, knowing that you're gonna be able to have the next fifty, sixty, seventy years of your life to look back fondly on that.

比尔·帕金斯在他的书《以终为始》里用了“记忆红利”这个词，指的是创造那些能在余生中不断增值的回忆。

Bill Perkins has a in his book, Die with Zero, he uses the term memory dividends to talk about like creating memories that compound over the rest of your life.

我觉得二十多岁是一个特别有趣的阶段，因为这是你和朋友们第一次开始赚钱，开始独立生活，可以随心所欲地做自己想做的事。

I think you have like a really fun window in your twenties because it's the first time you and your friends are making money, you're kind of responsible for yourselves out of the house, and you can sort of do whatever you want.

如果你没有债务，你可以去尝试一些冒险，即使存不下太多钱也没关系，但前提是你得让自己走上一条收入能快速、指数级增长的职业道路——比如你二十三岁时年薪六万没问题，但希望到了二十八、九岁时，你能赚到二十万以上，这样就能弥补早期收入的不足。

Again, if you don't have debt, you can like take some of those shots, and it's okay if you're not saving that much, but the caveat is you want to put yourself on like a career path where your earnings can scale quickly and exponentially, where if you're 23 and you're making $60,000 fine, but like hopefully by the time you're, you know, 28, 29, you can get it to $200,000 plus, and you can like more than compensate for the lack of money you were making early.

所以，我确实认为专注于技能积累、建立人脉、让自己处于能赚更多钱的位置，这些都很重要。

So it's I do think focusing on like skill accumulation, building a network, putting yourself in a position to earn more money matters.

但如果你有信心自己的收入能翻倍、翻三倍甚至翻四倍，那就不必过分担心23岁时没把401(k)存满。

But if you're confident that you're gonna be able to double, triple, quadruple your income, you shouldn't overly stress about not maxing out your four zero one k when you're like 23.

你也提出过相当具体的理财机制，就是在收入较低或职业生涯早期多花一些，然后随着收入增长再逐步提高储蓄率，而不是为了投资而牺牲生活体验。

You've also laid out fairly concrete money mechanics, spending a bigger share of small income earning or early, and as you said ramping up savings as your income climbs rather than front loading investments at the expense of experiences.

你觉得传统理财观念里，哪一条对年轻人来说可能是错的？

What's the standard piece of personal finance advice that you think is part of the conventional wisdom that might be wrong for young people?

把401(k)存满。

Maxing out four zero one ks.

我觉得最普遍的好建议是，先想办法还清高利率的债务，比如信用卡债或者利息很高的学生贷款。

I think it's like so, like I think the best like, normal broad advice is get on a path to pay off like high interest rate debt, whether that's credit card debt, expensive student loan debt.

尽快还清这些债务，无论从财务健康还是心理健康来说，都是最重要的事，不用让这些债务一直压在心里。

Paying that off quickly is like the most important thing you can do, both from getting your finances right and just like mental well-being, not having that hanging over your head.

但我在商学院的时候，一边兼职，一边住在纽约，同时还在为一家媒体创业公司工作。

But like when I was in business school, I was working part time, but I was also living in New York and I was working for a media startup.

我当时想参加一些有趣的商学院活动，比如春假旅行之类的。如果要在存更多退休金和跟朋友去日本之间做选择，我觉得花几千美元去旅行，比多投三千美元到退休账户里值多了。那笔钱现在就算跟着标普涨了，可能也就值个四五千块。所以我觉得那种‘尽量存满退休账户’的盲目建议，虽然出发点是好的，但未必适合每个人，得看你处在人生的哪个阶段。

And I wanted to do like fun business school stuff, whether it was a trip for spring break or whatever, and if the trade off was, okay, I could put more money back toward retirement or I could go to Japan with my friends, I just, I think spending a few thousand dollars on the trip was worth way more than investing another $3,000 or whatever and then maybe it's worth, what, 4,004 thousand $500 now with how the S and P has grown, but I think that like the blind advice of like maxing out whatever retirement options you have, it's well intentioned, but it doesn't always necessarily make sense depending on where you are in life stage.

到了某个阶段，生活开销能砍的也就那么多了，再砍就触及基本生存线了。我觉得大多数财务问题，归根结底是靠赚更多钱、扩大自己的容错空间来解决的。

Like, you hit a point where there's only so much, so many more life expenses you can cut before you hit your bare essentials, And I think most money problems are actually solved by making more money and increasing the margin of error that you have.

如果你现在的收入还处于你一生预期收入的下限，那我觉得适当减少退休金的投入也是可以的。

And if you're like at the lower end of what your projected earnings are gonna be over your lifetime, I think it's okay to like dial back contributions to retirement.

在你书里的第九章，你提到‘追求热情是很糟糕的职业建议’，这一点我们完全同意，也经常这么说。

In chapter nine of your book, and we're brothers from another mother here, you say pursuing your passion is terrible career advice, which is something we agree with and say all the time.

你为什么觉得这是个糟糕的建议？

Why do you think it's bad advice?

我差点就犯了这个错，对吧？

Well, almost did it, right?

我热爱写作。

Like I love writing.

我的第一份工作是在企业金融领域。

My first job was corporate finance.

那挺无聊的。

It was pretty boring.

而且那会儿正好赶上疫情，我觉得这完全是另一个话题了。像我这样二十多岁、快三十岁的人，毕业就撞上疫情，其实错过了那种22到24岁在办公室被逼着干活的日子。

It was also during COVID, which I think this is a whole another topic, but like people my age, like mid to late twenties who graduated into COVID kind of missed that I'm 22 to 24, I'm in an office, just like being forced to do stuff.

我可能本来能从中受益不少。

I probably would have benefited from that.

我觉得每个人多少都受成长环境和所处时代的影响。

I think everybody is somewhat a product to their environment they grew up in or kinda came of age in.

关于热情这件事，我的看法是这样的：我热爱写作，疫情期间开始写旅行博客和投资博客。

My my my whole thing on the passion is like, so I love writing, and I started writing a travel blog and like an investing blog during the pandemic.

我提过我想去欧洲背包旅行。

I mentioned I wanted to go backpack Europe.

我写我和朋友在国外做的事，也写金融市场上那些疯狂的事，然后我的Substack订阅量就开始涨了。

I was writing about what I was doing abroad with my friends, and I was writing about crazy stuff going on in financial markets, and my Substack started growing.

我当时就想，我真该在媒体这块加倍投入。

I was like, I should really double and triple down on the media thing.

所以我在商学院期间，一边做流动性相关的工作，一边运营那个金融媒体表情包页面和新闻通讯。

So I'm working for liquidity, the media finance meme page, newsletter, all that during business school.

到了第二年，我其实不太确定自己想做什么。

And going into my second year, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do.

后来Robinhood给了我一个工作机会，让我帮他们创办一家叫Sherwood News的媒体公司。

And I got a job offer from Robinhood to help them build a media startup called Sherwood News.

那时候，我真正喜欢的两件事就是投资金融市场，以及媒体和写作。

And at the time, like the two things I'd really liked were investing in financial markets and media and writing.

所以我觉得应该全力走内容这条路。

So I figured I should go all in on the content path.

我一直很喜欢做这件事。

I've enjoyed doing this.

感觉这是正确的选择。

This feels like the right move.

但等我到了那里才发现，我喜欢写作是因为那只是我自己写博客、分享想法，是一件有趣的事，是在自己的平台上建立受众；而当你的薪水取决于你能不能快速产出专栏、身处一个更结构化的企业环境时，感觉就完全不一样了。

And then I got there and realized that like I had liked writing when it was just me blogging and putting my thoughts out there, and it was like this fun thing, building an audience on my own platform versus when your paycheck is determined by your ability to like churn out columns and like you're in a more structured corporate environment.

我既看不到在传统媒体环境里长期收入和职业发展的前景，也意识到自己一直很向往的另一件事——投资金融市场——同样能带来智力上的满足感，而且这还是一条收入更高、选择更多的职业道路。

I both didn't see the long term like income and career progression for me in the call it traditional media setup, And I also realized that like the other thing I'd been really pulled toward, like investing in financial markets, I found equally intellectually stimulating, but it was also just a much like both higher earning and higher optionality career path.

所以我现在在一家风险投资基金工作。

So like I I work for a venture capital fund now.

我转了方向，但最初犯的错误是：我喜欢写作，所以就应该把写作当成职业。而实际上正确的思考方式是：我通过写作建立了很好的人脉网络。

I pivoted, but the initial mistake I made was like, I love writing, therefore I should make my career writing, when the actual way to think about it was I've built a good network from writing.

那怎么利用这个网络来发展职业呢？

How do I leverage that career wise?

风险投资本质上就是拼项目来源的行业。

Well, venture capital's a deal flow game.

我有人脉网络。

I have a good network.

我能接触到那些正在创业的创始人。

I have access to founders starting stuff.

所以，我能不能利用自己通过平台建立起来的东西，把它应用到更赚钱的行业和职业路径上呢？

Like, can I leverage the thing I built with my platform so I could apply it to a more lucrative industry and career path?

对，这就是我做的转型。

And, yeah, that was the pivot I made.

所以我觉得，光凭热情是没用的，因为第一，如果你对某件事充满热情，它很可能不会给你带来高收入。

So like, I think passion is stupid because, one, if you're passionate about a thing, it probably won't pay you well.

而且就算你找到了跟热情相关的工作，也很可能会慢慢不再喜欢那份热情了。

And then even if you find a job in your passion and go after it, there's a very good chance you'll start to really not enjoy that passion anymore.

它会变得很有压力，因为你得从石头里榨出血来，想方设法从以前用来玩的事情上赚钱。

It becomes stressful because you're trying to like draw blood from a rock, trying to make money from a thing you used to do for fun.

但在追求热情的过程中，很可能培养出一些在其他领域很有用的技能。

But there's probably skill sets developed in pursuit of that passion that are high leverage in other fields.

所以，弄清楚如何把这些技能或兴趣用在市场真正需要的地方，这一点非常重要。

So like figuring out how to leverage those skills or interests in something the market actually cares about is very important.

这样既能让你更享受自己的热情，因为你可以把它当成业余爱好，又能把从中学到的东西用到能真正赚钱的事情上。

It both makes you enjoy your passion more because you can make it your free time, and then also you can apply things learned from it to something that'll actually get you paid.

比如，我就喜欢赚钱。

Like, I like making money.

我觉得做个资本家、渴望金钱，这完全没问题。

I think it's very okay to be like a capitalist and desire money.

有钱的生活比没钱的生活好太多了。

Life is much better with money than without money.

对，所谓的追求热情，不过是富人们自己有了钱之后才劝别人去做的事，对吧？

And yeah, the pursue your passion is just like rich people tell people to do that once they already have money, right?

当你手里有一个亿的时候，说这话当然轻松。

Like it's easy to say when you have like a $100,000,000.

但如果你刚毕业或者身无分文，那情况就完全不一样了。

It's different when you're just coming out of school or you're broke.

你写了很多关于选择权作为一种贬值资产的概念。

You write a lot about the concept of optionality as a depreciating asset.

我特别喜欢这部分。

And I love this part.

你认为完全不追求选择权，最终会导致中年危机，因为那些崩溃得最厉害的人，往往是最早选错了路的人。

You argue that not pursuing it at all is a path to a midlife crisis because the people who spiral the hardest are the ones who committed to the wrong path too early.

能多说一点吗？

Say more?

对，所以我觉得，选择权这个概念挺有意思的。我现在29岁，算是快三十了。

Yeah, so like I, optionality's interesting and like I'm 29 now, so like late twenties.

在纽约，大家都说我年轻。

In New York people say I'm a baby.

要是在佐治亚，我早该有三个孩子了。

In Georgia, I should have like three kids already.

我来自南佐治亚，住在纽约，所以能体验到各种不同的生活方式。

Being from South Georgia, living in New York, you get the full spectrum of lifestyle optimization.

在纽约和旧金山湾区这种地方，很多人会不断积累资历，就为了下一步能走得更远。

Something, and this happens a lot in the New York SF Bay Industrial Complex, is like people keep doing things to stack credentials to actually do the next thing.

举个例子，先进银行，然后去私募股权，再读商学院，接着可能转咨询，或者试试对冲基金之类的。但这样一路走来，你只是按部就班地走别人铺好的路，从来没想过自己真正想做什么。

It's like the example of this is I go into banking to go into private equity, to go to business school, to maybe you pivot to consulting or you try to join a hedge fund or whatever, but you kind of just stayed on a track that has like the next step laid out without ever thinking about what you wanna do.

问题在于，总有一天，这条路会走到尽头。你玩了一通选择权的游戏，最后只能被带到那些剩下的选项里。

And the issue with that is like at some point, the optionality path runs out and you sort of end up in a nurse who kinda just takes you to like whatever options are left after you play the optionality game.

反过来，有些人又太快做出承诺，比如你上医学院，只是因为觉得自己应该当医生，而没有真正想清楚自己是否愿意每天做医生该做的事。

The flip side is some people commit to stuff really fast where, you know, you go to medical school because you just think you should be a doctor without deciding if you actually wanna spend your time doing what doctors do every day.

然后22岁进了医学院，接着做住院医师，等到三十出头开始赚钱时，已经背了一身债，这时候才发现，自己花了十年走这条路，其实如果当初在21、22岁时多想想，可能根本就不会喜欢，完全可以换个方向。

And then at like 22, you go to medical school, and then you're in residency, and by the time you're out making money, you're in your early thirties, you have a lot of debt, and it's like, all right, I just put a decade toward this path that I actually, if I'd thought about it a little more 21 or 22, might not have enjoyed in the first place and could have redirected.

所以，我其实有个问题想问你。

So I actually this is actually have a question for you.

你觉得，你比我年长，见过很多人的人生轨迹，

Do you think it's you know, you're older than me, so you've seen a lot of people's lives play out.

那些过早切断选择、选错了方向的人，和那些一直保留选择权到三四十岁的人，哪一类人的人生满意度更低？

Do you think the people who, like, cut off their optionality too early and committed to the wrong thing had less life fulfillment, or the people who, like, chased optionality preservation into their thirties or forties were worse off?

对，我在这方面可能有点老派，这很大程度上是因为我身边的人跟我差不多。

Yeah, I'm sort of a, I'm a bit of a boomer on this and a lot of it is proximity bias because the people I grew up with were like me.

我出身中下阶层。

I was in the lower middle class.

我大多数朋友都来自中上阶层。

Most of my friends were upper middle class.

他们想做能给自己带来经济保障的事情，这其实是个政治正确的说法，说白了就是想赚大钱。

They wanted to do something that would provide economic security for them, which is a politically correct term, a way of saying they wanted to make bank.

对，而且我觉得我们很多人都发现，你不可能一边讨厌一件事，一边还能从中赚大钱。

Yeah, and what I think a lot of us found was that you can't hate something and make a lot of money out of it.

因为我进了投行，我讨厌它，它也讨厌我，我根本不可能靠它赚大钱。

Because I went into investment banking, I hated it and it hated me and I was never gonna make a lot of money doing it.

因为如果你讨厌一件事，你就不可能把它做得很好。

Because if you hate something, you're just not gonna be very good at it.

但说‘找到快乐’这个词不太准确。

But you can find joy is the wrong word.

你可以在一些看似不有趣的事情中找到满足感，比如税法。

You can find satisfaction in something that may not seem like fun, you know, tax law.

如果你喜欢数字，考个证，享受把法律应用到税务上，帮企业和个人制定税务策略，这其实还挺有智力上的成就感的。

If you enjoy numbers, you get the certification, you enjoy applying the law to taxation, helping corporations and individuals figure out their tax strategies, it can be actually kind of intellectually rewarding.

这就像解谜一样，而且报酬很高，这特别有成就感，尤其是年纪越大越有这种感觉，因为那些叫‘孩子’和‘年迈父母’的麻烦事，真的很需要你找到办法建立经济保障，这样才能开始照顾他们。

It's like it's trying to solve a puzzle, and it pays really well, which can is exceptionally rewarding, especially it gets more rewarding as you get older because these terrible things called kids and aging parents demand or really appreciate you figuring out a way to develop economic security such that you can start taking care of them.

我觉得很多人不愿意承认，但那些进入所谓‘虚荣行业’、比我们其他人更晚才开始真正生活的人，可能后来都后悔了。

I would say that I think a lot of my I don't think people want to admit it, but I think a lot of people who went into the vanity industries and then had to start their lives later than the rest of us probably regret it.

我在加州大学洛杉矶分校时，和一群运动员住在一起，其中有些人还参加过奥运会。他们28岁时就打电话来找工作。

I lived in with and knew a bunch of athletes at UCLA, some of whom went to the Olympics, and they were calling me at 28 looking for a job.

当然，在首尔奥运会上拿块铜牌是很风光，但我不确定如果他们对自己足够诚实的话，会不会宁愿22岁就直接进入职场，然后买票去看奥运会就行了。

And sure, it's great to win a bronze medal at the Seoul Olympics, but I'm not sure if they were really honest with themselves if they wouldn't have gone straight into the workforce at 22 and then just bought tickets to the Olympics.

所以，我在这方面非常务实。

So I'm very much a pragmatist around this.

不幸的是，被大肆宣传的故事往往是那些拒绝了企业世界、无聊工作或父母建议的人，他们决定去实现开餐厅的梦想。

And unfortunately, think the stories that are publicized are the people who turn away the corporate world or the boring job or their parents' advice and they decide their dream is to open a restaurant.

我不想打击任何人的梦想。

And I don't want to crush anybody's dreams.

我给那些追求所谓‘虚荣行业’的人的建议是：当然可以去做，但要给自己设定明确的标准——如果24岁还不能搬出父母家，那可能意味着你选择的职业行不通，需要想想别的出路。

My advice to people who are pursuing what I call a vanity industry is sure, go into it, but have clear benchmarks for yourself that if I can't move out of my parents by the time I'm 24, it probably means my chosen profession is not working and I need to think about something else.

如果你想当演员，三年内还买不起自己的健康保险，那可能就该考虑换行了。因为根据美国演员工会的数据，83%的演员收入不到两万三千美元，根本不够资格买健康保险。

And if I wanna be in acting, if I can't have my own health insurance within three years, then I should probably pursue another profession because eighty three percent of actors don't qualify for health insurance because they don't make more than $23,000 a year according to SAG AFTRA.

我觉得有些事我可能坚持得太久了。

And I think I probably stuck with some stuff too long.

我在Red Envelope坚持了十年，以为自己比市场更强大。

I stuck with Red Envelope for ten years believing that I was bigger than the market.

如果我把所有精力都投进去，最终它一定会成功。

And if I just threw everything I had at it, eventually it would be successful.

但市场比我强大，公司在2008年倒闭了，那时距离创立已经十一年了。

And the market was bigger than me and the company folded in 2008 after eleven, you know, eleven years post founding.

我想给年轻人一个建议：你得学会区分什么时候该放弃，什么时候只是工作变得困难了。

A piece of advice I would give to young people is that you have to discern between quitting and when working just gets hard.

大多数工作和公司一开始都很糟糕。

I mean, the majority of jobs and companies are awful in the beginning.

你会遇到不公平的事，然后问自己：好吧。

You're gonna face injustice and ask yourself, alright.

如果我坚持下去，我是在进步吗？

If I stick with it, am I making progress?

要平衡这一点，有时候确实该认输放弃，告诉自己，好吧，这真的行不通。

And trying to balance that with there is a time to throw in the towel and give up and say, okay, this just isn't working.

那就继续往前走。

Let's move on.

我职业生涯中最大的失败，其实不是那些最明显的失败。可以说，我最大的失败是筹了一大笔钱，在纽约搞了一个电商孵化器。

And the the the biggest failures in my life professionally haven't been the biggest fail I mean, arguably, biggest failure I've ever had was I raised a ton of money to start an ecommerce incubator in New York.

问题是，这笔钱是1999年12月筹到的，结果三个月内就基本结束了。

The problem is I raised the money in December '99, and it was kind of over within three months.

只是我们当时没意识到，因为2000年的纽约，根本不可能再有资金投给电商孵化器了。

We just didn't know it because there was never gonna be any more capital for an ecommerce incubator in New York in 2000.

好在，我很快意识到了这一点，市场也基本让我快速失败了，那件事在我人生中就像个小插曲。

The good news is I recognize that, and the market basically I I failed fast, and it was just like a blip in my life.

慢慢失败才是最糟糕的，你总会看到一些成功的迹象，让你舍不得放手。

Failing slowly, the worst thing that can happen to you is there's just enough signs of success to keep at it.

然后，当你为一个东西拼了十年之后，一觉醒来才发现。

And then you wake up after throwing yourself at something for ten years.

所以成功是最好的，但快速失败是次好的。

So success is the best thing, but failing fast is the next best thing.

因此，我建议，有时候从瓶子里面看标签是很难的。

And if so what I would suggest is sometimes it's hard to read the label from inside of the bottle.

所以，组建一个智囊团，这样你就能分辨出两种情况：一种是‘对，欢迎来到工作周，坚持下去，你做得很好，这很难，对，但不要屈服于放弃的诱惑’；另一种是‘老板，你已经努力了这么久，市场在告诉你一些事情，你应该转向其他事情了’。

So assemble a kitchen cabinet such that you can discern the difference between, yeah, welcome to the work week, just stick with it, you're doing well, it's hard, yeah, but don't resist the temptation to quit, versus, boss, you've been at this, the market is telling you something, you should move on to something else.

有什么想法吗？

Any thoughts?

这有点像我们最初讨论这个话题的起因，就是我对选择权的看法，这跟对自己诚实面对时间线有关。

That's kinda like like the the original thing that put us on this thread was my thoughts on optionality, and it's it ties to being honest with yourself about timelines.

比如，年轻人最大的资产就是二十多岁时的选择权，在生活的方方面面，比如感情、工作等等。

Like, young people have like, best asset you have in your twenties is optionality in like every facet of life, like relationships, work, whatever.

如果你是一个24岁的单身男性，你可以约会的女孩有很多。

If you're like a 24 year old single guy, there's plenty of girls you can date.

实际上，在二十多岁到三十岁出头的时候，你在约会市场上可能更有价值，因为你开始赚钱了。

Actually, you're like, you're probably more valuable in the dating market, your late twenties and early twenties, as you actually make money.

找工作容易多了，因为你可以比较轻松地找到一个入门级的工作。

It's much easier to get a job because you can take a starter job pretty easily.

比如，如果你表现出自己聪明、有干劲、愿意努力，而且大家也喜欢你，他们很可能会录用你，也知道你需要一两年才能完全上手。

Like, if you show that you are smart and driven and will work hard, and people like you, they'll probably hire you and know that it'll take a year or two for you to get up to speed.

所以，再说一次，如果你找到了自己擅长又喜欢的事情，不管是工作还是人，比如你觉得那个人就是你的真命天子，而且一切都很好，那太棒了。

So like, again, if you find the thing that you're good at and you enjoy, whether that's like a job or a person, like you think should be your person, and it's just like, you just know everything's good, great.

如果你24岁就找到了，那就定下来。

You find that at 24, commit.

太好了。

Awesome.

很多人不是这样的，这也没关系。如果你尝试一份工作两年后，发现市场前景不好，或者你不擅长也不喜欢，那就转个方向试试别的。年轻时，你可以在生活的各个方面多次尝试，理想情况下，你能快速积累很多经验，从中学习，并且有更多的参照点。比如，我二十多岁的时候做过两三份不同的工作。

A lot of people aren't like that, and it's okay to like, if you try a job for two years and then realize the market outlook is bad, or you're bad at this thing and don't enjoy it, pivot and try a new thing, and you can take several shots on goal in basically every facet of your life when you're young, and ideally from that, you can accumulate a lot of experiences quickly that you can learn from and have a lot more touch points on, okay, I had two or three different jobs in my twenties.

这个我真的很擅长。

I was really good at this.

这个我完全不行。

I sucked at this.

这个我真的很喜欢。

I really liked this.

现在我的技能面广了很多，就像一把瑞士军刀，或者说成了一个通才，比原来强多了。

I've now developed like a much broader skill set, like almost like a Swiss army knife or a generalist than I would otherwise have.

我该怎么把这些积累的技能整合到一件事上，让它产生复利效应呢？

How do I apply these skills I've developed into one thing that can compound?

我觉得在26岁左右，很容易感觉自己落后于那些22岁就锁定方向的人。

And I think it's easy at like 26 to feel like you're falling behind the people who locked in on, I think, at 22.

但我猜，等你到了五六十岁，23岁还是27岁找到自己的方向其实差别不大。与其23岁就草率地押错宝——不管是选错人导致离婚，还是选错职业方向，十年后发现自己并不在想要的位置——不如多尝试几件事，到27岁找到真正愿意投入的方向，这样要好得多。

But I would guess that like, you know, when you're 50 or 60, it doesn't matter that much if you found your thing at 23 or 27, and it's way better to have like tried a few things and found something you're really committed to at 27 than just like pot commit to the wrong thing at 23, whether it's a person and you get divorced or it's a career path and you're not where you wanna be ten years down the road.

所以关于选择权，年轻时如果对自己的道路有任何疑虑，就应该快速利用这个优势，要知道花几年时间摸索清楚是完全可以的。

So like on optionality, it's like you should rapidly exploit that when you're young if you have any doubt on your path, knowing that, like, it's okay to spend a few years figuring it out.

我们稍作休息，马上回来。

We'll be right back after a quick break.

本期节目由领英广告赞助播出。

Support for the show comes from LinkedIn ads.

没有什么比花大价钱投资某样东西，结果却发现它根本不值得更让人难受的了，比如买了件高科技产品最后只能放在角落里吃灰，或者参加了个商业研讨会，结果最大的收获就是几句励志的话。

There's no worse feeling than making a major investment in something only to realize it didn't exactly live up to the hype, such as buying a nice piece of tech that ends up in storage collecting dust or taking a business workshop where your main takeaway was little more than a few motivational words.

如果你做市场营销，这种情况在广告上也会发生。

If you work in marketing, this can happen with ads.

你优化那些看起来很棒的数据，比如曝光量、覆盖人数、互动量。

You optimize for the numbers that look great, impressions, reach, reactions.

但如果这些数据没有带来收入，那跟CFO汇报的时候可就不太好聊了。

But when they don't show revenue, well, that can turn into an unfun conversation with the CFO.

LinkedIn给这种情况起了个名字，叫“无效花费”。

LinkedIn has a word for that, bull spend.

通过LinkedIn广告触达合适的买家，投资那些能让你的CFO眼前一亮的东西。

Reach the right buyers from LinkedIn ads and invest in what looks good to your CFO.

根据2026年梦想数据基准报告，LinkedIn广告在所有主流广告平台中投资回报率最高。

According to the 2026 Dream Data Benchmark Report, LinkedIn ads generated the highest ROAS of all major ad networks.

达到了121%。

It's a 121%.

你可以按公司、行业、职位等条件进行精准定位。

You can target by company, industry, job title, and more.

是时候停止那些无效支出了。

It's time to cut the bull spend.

在LinkedIn上做广告，这个平台会为你带来回报。

Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you.

在LinkedIn广告上首次投放250美元，下次投放就能获得250美元的信用额度。

Spend $250 in your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a $250 credit for the next one.

只需访问linkedin.com/scott。

Just go to linkedin.com/scott.

网址是linkedin.com/scott。

That's linkedin.com/scott.

条款和条件适用。

Terms and conditions apply.

本期节目由MongoDB赞助支持。

Support for the show comes from MongoDB.

AI辅助编码和智能代理编程能让你比以往更快地构建应用。

AI assisted and agentic coding can help you build faster than ever.

但如果你的数据层成了瓶颈，那还有什么意义呢？

But if your data layer is a bottleneck, what's the point?

MongoDB实际上不会给你添麻烦。

MongoDB actually gets out of your way.

MongoDB是一个统一的、为AI准备的数据平台，让你能够构建可扩展的生成式AI应用。

MongoDB is a unified AI ready data platform that empowers you to build scalable generative AI applications.

它通过将灵活的文档模型原生地与语义向量搜索、全文搜索和实时操作数据结合，消除了对单独专用向量数据库的需求。

It eliminates the need for separate specialized vector databases by combining a flexible document model natively with semantic vector search, full text search, and real time operational data.

你不需要跟僵化的模式较劲，也不用转换数据格式，MongoDB的原生数据模型直接反映了LLM已经理解的语言。

Instead of wrestling with rigid schemas or translating data formats, MongoDB's native data model mirrors the language LLMs already speak.

此外，MongoDB还让你能以AI的速度灵活交付。

Plus, MongoDB gives you the flexibility to ship at the speed of AI.

它的ACID合规性让你晚上能安心睡觉，并且能扩展到处理大规模财富500强的工作负载。

The ACID compliance lets you sleep soundly at night and scales to handle massive Fortune 500 workloads.

开发者对这种可靠性有个说法。

Developers have a word for that kind of reliability.

其实，是四个字。

Actually, four words.

那就是：这是个很棒的数据库。

It's a great database.

开始构建，请访问 mongodb.com/ai。

Start building at mongodb.com/ai.

本期节目的支持来自 SoFi。

Support for the show comes from SoFi.

富人最大的优势之一，就是能雇人帮他们做出更好的财务决策。

One of the biggest advantages wealthy people have is the means to hire people who can help them make better financial decisions.

但对大多数人来说，手机里装着六个互不关联的金融应用。

But for most of us, there are six different financial apps that don't talk to each other.

这正是 SoFi Coach 能帮上忙的地方。

That's where SoFi Coach can help.

教练会通过聊天的方式，一步步指导你处理所有财务问题，帮你还清债务、增加储蓄、更明智地消费和投资。

Coach provides step by step chat based guidance for all your finances, helping you pay down debt, save more, spend smarter, and invest.

它不只是给你建议。

It doesn't just give you advice.

它实际上可以在你同意的情况下，帮你执行这些操作。

It can actually execute the moves for you with your approval.

你还可以问一些重要的问题，比如，我今年买得起房吗？

You can also ask important questions such as, can I afford to buy a home this year?

或者，我怎样才能提高我的信用评分？

Or how can I improve my credit score?

而且因为它关联了你的账户，所以给出的答案都是针对你个人财务状况量身定制的。

And because it's connected to your linked accounts, the answers are tailored to your specific financial situation.

如果你问SoFi教练，我有一万美元该怎么做？

And if you ask SoFi coach, what should I do with $10,000?

如果你运气好的话，你可能比你想象的更快需要这个答案。

And if you're lucky, you might need the answer sooner than you think.

你就有机会赢得10美元。

You'll be entered for a chance to win $10.

了解更多并参与，请访问sofi.com/propgcoach。

Learn more and enter at sofi.com/propgcoach.

网址是sofi.com/propgcoach。

That's sofi.com/propgcoach.

这是SoFi Technologies的付费广告，不构成财务建议。

This is a paid advertisement by SoFi Technologies and is not intended to be financial advice.

无需购买。

No purchase necessary.

购买不会增加中奖机会。

A purchase will not increase your chances of winning.

仅限美国50州及哥伦比亚特区18岁以上合法居民参与，法律禁止地区无效。

Open only to legal residents of the 50 US slash DC, 18 plus, void where prohibited by law.

抽奖活动于美国东部时间2026年9月15日晚上11点59分结束。

Sweepstakes ends at 11:59PM Eastern Standard Time on 09/15/2026.

你认为有抱负的年轻人往往集中在少数几个领域——金融、大型科技公司、科技初创企业、法律咨询——而像科技销售这样的工作却被低估了，因为它被视为低地位。

You argue that ambitious young people tend to cluster around a few sectors, finance, big tech, tech startups, law consulting, and that something such as tech sales is undervalued because it reads as low status.

你觉得还有哪些事情，年轻人可能因为同样的原因而忽略了？

What do you think are some of the other things that young people might be overlooking for that same reason?

科技销售这事儿挺有意思的，因为现在整个行业都在重新包装，把销售叫做‘市场推广’，毕竟从耶鲁毕业的人可不想说自己干的是销售。

So the tech sales one is funny because there's been this whole rebrand of like calling sales go to market because nobody that went to like Yale wants to say that they do sales.

比如说，你加入一家像Cognition这样的公司——他们现在可是最火的AI编程公司之一，对吧？

The if if you join like, I don't know, like say you join Cognition on their like they're one of the hottest like AI coding companies right now, right?

如果你几年前在那里当客户经理，你赚的钱可比那些在私募股权公司工作、基金业绩糟糕、分红泡汤的人多得多。

If you joined as a, like, an account exec there a couple years ago, you've made so much more money than somebody who's like in private equity and their fund is kind of trashed and it carries underwater.

比如，说自己是KKR的合伙人听起来很风光，因为纽约人都知道KKR。

Like, if the, like, the idea of saying I'm an associate at KKR sounds really good because people in New York know what KKR is.

可你知道吗？

Guess what?

那个在外面到处向科技公司推销Cognition的人，可能已经赚了50万到100万，具体看他们的目标薪酬是多少。

The person out there slinging, like, cognition to random, like, tech companies might have pulled between 500 k and 1,000,000 depending on what their, like, OTE is.

所以这里面其实有个套利空间——就是去做一份在那些沃顿本科同学眼里没那么光鲜的工作，但实际上你能赚到更多的钱。

So there's like a real arbitrage in, like, being able to take a job that sounds less sexy to, like, the other kids who went to Wharton undergrad, but you can make way more money.

比如我认识一个叫Sam Buck的人，他很早就加入了Rap。

Like, the guy I know, Sam Buck, who, like, joined rap really early.

他在高盛待了几年。

He was a Goldman for a couple years.

他当时在Rap基本上就是个销售开发代表，而且那时候Rap还没什么人听说过。

He was just like basically an SDR rap, and nobody really heard of rap.

他们当时才刚融完A轮。

They were like series A at that point.

你猜怎么着？

And guess what?

Rap的估值从那以后，大概涨了50倍吧。

Rap's valuation has like, I don't know, 50x since then.

他现在已经是Rap的高级副总裁或者高管了。

He's now like a very high up VP or exec there.

那是销售岗位。

It was sales.

甚至更早的时候，就算不算股权激励，我敢肯定随着他逐步成长，佣金收入也非常可观。

Like even before, like, even excluding the equity comp, like, I'm sure he had a very good commission comp on that as he grew into it.

所以我觉得，销售类工作整体来说，除非你铁了心要进金融市场，比如想做交易员或对冲基金分析师，否则典型的投行、咨询或私募股权分析师，如果转去做销售、合作伙伴这类工作，可能赚得更多，生活也更开心。

So like, I think sales jobs in general, unless you are like a dialed financial markets, like, I want to be a trader or hedge fund analyst, I think your typical investment banker, consultant, or like private equity associate could probably earn more money and enjoy their life more if they just leaned into doing like sales partnerships, whatever.

我觉得还有其他方向，比如你刚才提到的税务会计。

I think there's other stuff too with like, like you were talking about being like a tax accountant.

会计也是那种听起来很枯燥的工作。

Accounting is another one where like it's boring.

大多数对金融感兴趣的人更愿意去银行，但如果你能找到一个细分领域，比如做税务、遗产规划这类事情，然后逐步往上走，或者服务越来越有钱的客户，那赚钱的机会真的很多。

Most people interested in finance would prefer to go into banking, but if you can carve out a niche where you're doing taxes, estate planning, stuff like that, and like move up or you're dealing with like higher and higher net worth clients, there's just so much money to be made.

所以一般来说，那些听起来很无聊、需要你既会社交又懂点数字、而且你觉得在酒吧跟女生说都不好意思的工作，往往有公司可以让你去做，还能赚大钱。相比之下，私募股权现在还是金融圈的热门，但它的薪酬很大一部分是递延的，还有附带权益。而且私募股权这个行业，可以说有些臃肿，他们对自己投资组合公司的估值也常常不切实际。

So like as a general rule, boring thing where like you either have to be like sociable or like fairly good with numbers to do, and you don't think it would be that impressive to like tell a girl at a bar, there's probably companies where you can join and do that and make a lot of money versus I would argue like private equity, which is still the hot finance thing, so much of the compensation is backloaded and carry, and like private equity as an industry, you could argue is bloated and a lot of their marks are unrealistic on their portfolio companies.

问题是，八年后你真的能拿到那些附带权益吗？

Like, are you gonna get any of that carried interest in eight years?

这我可说不准。

I don't know.

他们不断设立续期基金来维持这个游戏，但大家还是照着那个模式走。

They keep raising continuation funds to try to keep the game alive, but that's what everybody's still pattern matching to.

所以我对就业市场的看法是，对典型的投行人士来说，科技销售可能比私募股权更靠谱。

So like my hot employment take is like tech sales is probably a better bet than private equity for your typical investment banker.

五年后看看我是不是说对了。

We'll see if I'm right in five years.

你说得对。

You are right.

我觉得，如果考虑到他们承担的结构性风险或者工作时间，我们经济体系中薪酬最过高的就是销售员。

I think the most overcompensated, if you think about relative to the, well the structural risks they take or the amount of hours they work, the most overcompensated people in our economy are the salespeople.

而且在我创办的公司里，我发现大家通常讨厌他们，因为他们九点、甚至十点才来上班，还带着宿醉，人倒是挺聪明，但也不是天才。

And typically I found in the companies I've started, people hate them because they show up at nine, maybe ten, they're hungover And they're they're they're reasonably smart, but they're not geniuses.

但他们要么玩错了玩具，要么玩对了玩具，我搞不清楚优秀的销售员到底是自尊心特别低还是特别高。

But they played with either the wrong toys or the right toys, and they have I can't figure out if good salespeople have especially lower, especially high self esteem.

而且我觉得98%的人都不愿意去推销。

And I I think 98% of the public isn't willing to sell.

我高中那会儿还挨家挨户敲门卖过杂志订阅。

I used to knock on doors and sell magazine subscriptions when I was in high school.

你知道吗，忍受销售这件事本身，大多数人就不愿意干。

You know, it just the ability to endure sales is something most people are not willing to do.

别再给我打电话了。

Do not call me again.

哦，那你的意思是我应该过两周再打给你？

Oh, so you you're saying I should call you back in two weeks maybe.

我是说，你得有那种厚脸皮，能吞下那么多委屈，但大多数人就是做不到。

I mean, you have to be willing to to get out such a big spoon and eat so much shit, and most people just aren't willing to do that.

所以结果就是，那些有点脑子、有点情商的人，就能赚得盆满钵满。

So as a result, the people who do bring some intelligence, some EQ can just make a shit ton of money.

有意思的是，在每个行业的顶层，本质上还是个销售工作。

It's also funny because like in every industry at the top of the ladder, it's still like a sales job.

在投资界，你猜怎么着？

In the investment world, guess what?

说到底，真正的老板其实是那些有限合伙人。

Like at the end of the day, the actual boss is the LPs and like

就是那个负责筹钱的人。

the The guy people raises money.

对，对，对。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

你想去筹五亿美元，你就是在推销自己、你的声誉和你的业绩。

Like you wanna go raise $500,000,000, you're selling yourself, your reputation, your performance.

如果你一开始连说服别人给你钱都做不到，那选股或者选公司这些事根本就不会发生。

Like the whole like picking stocks or companies doesn't even happen if you can't convince somebody to give you the money in the first place.

经营对冲基金的两个人，通常是两个联合创始人，一个是对市场有深刻理解的内向型投资者，另一个是高情商的人，能去说服加州公务员退休基金给他们投一个亿。

The two people that run a hedge fund, the two partners are usually the two co founders are usually an introvert who sees the matrix, who really understands investing, and then a high EQ person who can go convince CalPERS to give them, you know, a $100,000,000.

这就像巧克力和花生酱一样，是绝配。

And that's the the chocolate and and peanut butter.

你最近有几篇文章也提到了我们在Prof G这里经常讨论的趋势，就是大家都觉得自己了解，但其实谁都不真正知道什么，那种优化文化通过指标把人变成了奴隶，还有用AI写的文章发表出来是对读者的不尊重。

A few of your recent posts also cover trends that we talk a lot about here at Prof G that we're all informed, but no one really knows anything, that optimization culture turns people into slaves through the metrics, and that publishing AI written work disrespects the reader.

再多说说。

Say more.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得我最喜欢的观点之一就是，我从来没用过智能手表。

I mean, one of my one of my favorite takes is like the whole like, I've never had a smartwatch.

对吧？

Right?

想想看，整个那种‘我的第八睡眠告诉我昨晚没睡好，今天肯定完蛋了’的心态。

Like, think the the entire, oh, like, my eighth sleep said that I didn't sleep well last night, now my day is gonna suck.

我就觉得，老兄，不至于吧。

It's like, I don't know, man.

我睡普通床垫，要是醒来感觉不对劲，我可能就去冲个冷水澡或者去健身房了。

I sleep on a normal mattress, and if I wake up and feel weird, I probably need to take a cold shower or, like, go to the gym.

我也不太清楚。

And I don't know.

我觉得这种对数据的痴迷，尤其是健康方面的，有点问题。因为你会开始围绕“怎么达到那个数字”来安排生活，而不是说理想情况下，数字只是提醒你“哦，我可能喝太多了”。

I I think this whole, like, metric obsession, especially with health, is a little bit problematic because, like, you then start architecting your life around, like, how do I hit the right number versus, like, in an ideal world, the number informs you of, oh, like, maybe I've been drinking too much.

我应该调整饮食。

I should change my diet.

但实际上，数字开始主导决策，而不是提供参考。

But in reality, the number starts driving the decision rather than informing it.

我真的不知道。

And I just I don't know.

现在什么都有数据指标。

Like, we have so many metrics for everything.

健康方面。

Health.

比如社交媒体帖子的表现数据，可能会让博主或播主陷入“观众绑架”的境地。

Like, you have performance data on social media posts that can lead people to, like, audience capture if they're a YouTuber or a podcaster.

就像健康数据这种东西，可能会让人……怎么说呢，你没法量化周五和朋友们喝三瓶啤酒有多开心，但你知道吗？

You have like health stuff that can make people, I don't know, like you can't really quantify how fun it is to have three beers with your friends on a Friday, but guess what?

比如我周六的睡眠评分可能因为喝多了点而变差，但我开心了吗？

Like my sleep score is probably worse on Saturday if I got a little bit drunk, but did I have fun?

你说，怎么量化三瓶喜力啤酒和喝无酒精喜力带来的社交收益呢？

Like, how do you quantify the, like, the social benefit of, like, I don't know, like three Heinekens versus, like, getting the Heineken Zeros?

我觉得，只要没有成瘾或物质滥用问题，这个权衡大概是值得的。

I think the trade off's probably worth it if you don't have, like, like an addiction or substance abuse problem.

还有你刚才提到的AI和内容创作，现在有太多表演型网红了，总觉得得不停发内容。比如在推特上，我知道你不太用了，但在风投和创业圈里，到处都是那种明显的、用Claude生成的垃圾内容，大家想靠这个当意见领袖，我根本懒得看。

And the same things that you were talking about like AI and content, it's like, there's such this performative influencers like, I need to keep putting content out that like, like on Twitter, I know you don't really, your ex, I know you don't really post on there anymore, but there's a whole like, in the VC startup world, the amount of like obvious, like, Claude slop that people are trying to be thought leaders on there, I just don't read it.

我一条X上的文章都不看，因为大概率就是表演性质的垃圾，谁知道呢。

Like I don't read a single X article because it's probably just performative slop that, I don't know.

我觉得，一味追求指标和表现，而不认真思考‘我想怎么安排自己的生活’、‘我真正在优化什么目标’，这是很危险的。因为你可能只是在原地打转，做各种事情，却让一个数字来主导你的人生决策，而不是让它给你一点参考。

It's all just like, I think metric chasing and performance chasing without actually thinking through like, how do I want to orchestrate my life and what actual goal am I optimizing for is pretty dangerous because you can just find yourself running around circles and doing things, and you're just like letting a number drive your life decisions rather than like lightly inform it.

你觉得居住地是影响幸福感的一个被低估的因素，每个人都应该在生孩子之前去纽约住几年——这一点我们也同意。

You argue that where you live is an underrated driver of well-being and that every person should spend a couple of years in New York before having kids, which again we also agree with.