341. 五种有毒的友谊类型

这是一档iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

大家好，我是艾德·赫尔姆斯，《SNAFU》的主持人，这档节目讲述历史上最严重的失误。新一季里，每期都会带来一个全新的灾难故事。

Hey. It's Ed Helms, host of SNAFU, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new SNAFU every single episode.

32枚遗失的核武器？你会想，等等，停一下，什么情况？

32 lost nuclear weapons? You're like, wait. Stop. What?

没错。节目将包含丰富的历史知识、大量笑料，还有众多明星嘉宾：保罗·谢尔、安吉拉与珍娜、尼克·克罗尔、乔丹·克莱珀。欢迎收听艾德·赫尔姆斯主持的《SNAFU》第四季，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的平台订阅。

Yeah. It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Scheer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan Klepper. Listen to season four of SNAFU with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

艾伯特镇正蔓延着一种邪恶的疾病。你必须根除它。掘开深层土壤，将其彻底剜除。

There's a vile sickness in Abbott's Town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out.

由iHeart播客与亚伦·曼基的Grim and Mild联合出品，《混乱小镇》——一部设定在布里奇沃特音频宇宙的全新虚构剧集，由朱尔斯·斯泰特和雷·怀斯主演。请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听。

From iHeart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jules State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是安娜·奥蒂兹。

It's Ana Ortiz.

我是马克·因德利卡多。

And I'm Mark Indelicado.

你可能认识我们，我是希尔达

You might know us as Hilda

而这是贾斯汀。

And Justin.

来自

From

《丑女贝蒂》。欢迎收听我们的新播客《万岁贝蒂》。耶。我们将从头到尾重温这部剧集，深入探讨其中的时尚、戏剧以及那些你从未听说过的幕后

Ugly Betty. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty. Yay. We're rewatching the series from start to finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama, and the behind

故事瞬间。

the scenes moments that you've never heard before.

但你当时还在做调酒师吗？

But you were still bartending?

我之前不知道这件事。

I didn't know that.

这个酒吧包就像是，是

The bar pack is like, is

那是你吗？我转过身，发现是贝蒂的广告。

that you? And I turn around, and it's a commercial for Betty.

我当时就想我得辞职。我辞职了。

And I was like I gotta quit. I quit.

收听《Viva Betty》在

Listen to Viva Betty on the

iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的地方。

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家好，怎么样？这里是陷阱宅男的小吃。整个十月，我们将为你带来恐怖内容。

What's up, everybody? It's snacks from the trap nerds. All October long, we're bringing you the horror.

布吉提布吉提布吉提。这个月我们以我最拿手的恐怖游戏开场，保证让你吓得魂飞魄散。

Boogity boogity boogity. We're kicking off this month with some of my best horror games to keep you terrified.

接着我们将聊聊最爱的恐怖片和万圣节电影，顺便探讨为什么黑人角色总是死得更早。

Then we'll be talking about our favorite horror and Halloween movie and figuring out why black people always die further.

托尼恐怖秀重磅回归，支线任务由鄙人亲自撰写并解说。我们还会带来一集完整剧情朗读加评论音轨。

And it's the return of Tony's horror show, side quest written and narrated by yours truly. We'll also be doing a full episode reading with commentary.

最后以恐怖电影大逃杀作为压轴。打开你的免费iHeartRadio应用，搜索陷阱护士播客立即收听。大家好，

And we'll cap it off with a horror movie battle royale. Open your free iHeartRadio app and search trap nurse podcast and listen now. Hello,

各位听众，欢迎回到《二十几岁心理学》，这档节目我们将探讨二十多岁面临的人生重大转变及其心理意义。大家好，欢迎回到节目。欢迎回到播客。无论你是新听众还是老粉丝，无论身处何方，非常高兴能再次与你们相聚，一起解析二十几岁的心理奥秘。

everybody, and welcome back to the psychology of your twenties, The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our twenties.

提起友谊时，我希望多数人想到的是那些光辉灿烂的关系——仿佛是世界运转的理由，充满欢笑与畅谈的荣耀时刻，那种无需解释就能彼此理解的终极舒适感。友谊本应是轻松、安全与快乐的港湾。但有时，直白地说，事实并非如此。有些友谊会开始变得像义务、消耗品或焦虑源。不幸的是，对于那些经历过的人而言，某些友谊会变得极具毒性，显现出控制、不尊重与操纵的模式，这些都会严重侵蚀我们的自尊。

When we think of friendships, I'd hope most of us think of these very glorious relationships, like the reason the world spins, the most glorious moments of laughter and conversation, and, like, someone who you don't have to explain yourself to, and, like, ultimate comfortability. Friendship is obviously supposed to be kind of a place of, like, ease and safety and joy. But sometimes, you know, let's just say it very simply, it just isn't. Sometimes a friendship does start to feel more like an obligation or a drain or a source of anxiety. Unfortunately, for those who have you know, those of us who have been in this situation, some friendships can become very toxic and show patterns of control and disrespect and manipulation that do a number on us, really start to chip away at our self esteem.

这就引出了今天节目的主题。显然我们要讨论有毒友谊，特别是你将会遇到的五种类型——不仅限于二十几岁，我认为贯穿人生始终。虽然我热衷于探讨友谊的美好——它多么美妙，带给我们多少快乐。但谈及友谊不那么阳光的一面总让我有些低落，然而这确实需要被正视。我们总是擅长讨论恋爱关系中的危险信号、有毒伴侣或自恋型伴侣的特征。

And that brings me to the focus of today's episode. Obviously, we are talking about toxic friendships, specifically the five types of toxic friendships that you will encounter, not just in your twenties, but I think in life in general. I obviously love focusing on, like, the beauty of friendship and, like, how wonderful it is and how much it brings us. And I'm kind of always a little bit bummed to talk about the less positive sides of friendship, but it does need to be acknowledged. We are so good at talking about red flags in relationships, signs of toxic or narcissistic partners.

但柏拉图式的关系同样重要，因此有时也会同样艰难且有害。而在二十多岁时，我认为这种情况更为复杂。友情在这个十年对我们意义重大。但与此同时，你的生活正快速变化，有时我们的友谊与生活中其他方面并不匹配。也许你已取得或正发现成功，突然间这段关系变得充满竞争性。

But platonic relationships are just as important and therefore can sometimes be just as difficult and harmful. And in your twenties, I think this is even more complicated. Friendship means so much to us in this decade. But also your life is rapidly changing, and sometimes our friendships don't match up with what else is happening in our life. Maybe you've had or you have found success and suddenly this relationship has become competitive.

或是你的朋友结交了新朋友，现在关系变得单向。现在它植根于批评。现在你们不再互相支持。真相是：并非每段友谊都注定永恒，但我们常因忠诚与长久这些观念而紧抓不放。

Or your friends made new friends and now it's one-sided. Now it's rooted in criticism. Now you're no longer supporting each other. Here's the truth. Not every friendship is meant to last forever, yet we so often hold on because friendship is wrapped up in these ideas of loyalty and longevity.

我认为归根结底是希望。我们都怀有这样的想象——和朋友们讨论参加彼此婚礼、认识对方孩子、一起住养老院。所以当这显然不会成为未来时，会感觉像背叛。但有时承认某段友谊不再适合我们或已变得有害，绝对必要且值得。

And I think at the end of the day, hope. We all have this image. We've all talked to our friends about being in each other's weddings, knowing each other's children, being in the nursing home together. And so when that becomes obvious that that's not gonna be the future, it can feel like a betrayal. But sometimes it is absolutely necessary and quite frankly worth it to acknowledge when a friendship is no longer suiting us or when it has turned toxic.

今天我们要探讨五种可能遇到的毒性友谊类型：如何识别、如何判断身处其中、如何脱身（尤其在更广泛的友群中）、何时该果断离开说再见，以及具体方法。我意识到内容很多，但我准备好了，希望你们也是。闲言少叙，我们开始吧。

So today, we're gonna talk about that, the five types of toxic friendships that we might encounter, how to recognize them, how to know when you're in one, how to navigate getting out of one, especially when you're in, like, a broader friendship group, and when it is absolutely time to to walk away, time to say just goodbye, and how to do that. There's quite a lot I've realized. There's a lot to talk about, but I am ready. I hope you are too. Without further ado, let's get into it.

回想童年时，你的世界相对较小。重要的人无非家人、邻里孩子或同学。这些关系并非主动选择，他们就在那里。青春期也类似。

If you think back to being a child, you know, your world was relatively small. Like, the people who mattered to you are like your family and, like, the neighborhood kids or, like, the kids you go to school with. They weren't really chosen. They're just kind of there. Same thing in adolescence.

或许他们稍重要些，但绝对与学校和地理距离相关。二十多岁则截然不同——一切都在分化。你遇见许多新人，这十年里你真正自主选择许多重要关系，而这些选择影响深远。

Maybe they matter a little bit more, but it's definitely tied up in, like, school and proximity. Your twenties are very different. Everything kind of splinters. You meet so many new people. This is the decade where you truly choose a lot of those meaningful relationships, and those choices make a huge difference.

你可能远离家人，住在陌生城市。你在探索自我，而朋友成为新身份意识的支架。因此这十年被称为'友谊十年'（主要是我这么称呼，但正努力推广）。你没有后期那些重大责任束缚，如婚姻、子女、重大职业或财务投入，但主要关系也不再是与家人的关系。

You might be living away from family, living in a new city where you don't know anyone. You're figuring out who you are, and your friends become the scaffolding for that new sense of self. It's why this decade gets called the friendship decade, mainly mainly by me, but I'm trying to get it to catch on. You know, you're not tied down by the same responsibilities that take over later on, like marriage, kids, big career investments, big financial investments. But you also aren't like, the main relationship you have isn't the one you have with your family anymore.

朋友填补了家人留下的空白，在子女或重要伴侣出现之前，他们成为了我们的一切，如同家人一般。我知道这听起来很肉麻，但我们都明白这是事实。我们知道在这十年里，朋友比任何其他关系都重要。这背后有着充分的理由。

Friends step into this empty space left by family and before, you know, kids or a major life partner steps in, and they become everything to us. They become like family. I know that sounds so cringe, but we know that's the truth. We know that they are more important in this decade than any other. And there's good reason for this.

2023年《心理学前沿》发表的一项研究显示，对年轻人而言，成年友谊是生活满意度的最强预测因素，甚至超过事业成就、财务状况或恋爱状态。这很惊人。意味着此刻咖啡馆里坐在你对面的那个人，或群聊里的朋友，对你幸福感和当下快乐程度的影响力几乎胜过其他一切。健康的友谊首先给予我们心理安全感，让我们可以困惑、可以混乱、可以野心勃勃、也可以脆弱，而不必担心被评判。

A 2023 study published in Frontiers in Psychology actually demonstrated that adult friendships are the strongest predictor of life satisfaction for young adults even more than career success, finances, or romantic status. That's crazy. It means that, you know, the person sitting across from you at the cafe right now or the person in your group chat has more of an influence on your well-being and whether you're going to be happy than almost anything else right now. A healthy friendship gives us psychological safety, first of all. It gives us a space where we can be confused and we can be messy and we can be ambitious or we can be vulnerable without fear of being judged.

我认为朋友还像一面镜子。我们通过朋友的反应真正看清自己。当朋友说为你骄傲时，你会备受鼓舞；当他们提醒你收敛锋芒时，你会变得谦逊。你透过他们看见自己。

And I think they also give us a mirror. You know, we really see ourselves reflected in how our friends respond to us. When a friend tells us they're proud of you, you know, that gives you a boost. When they tell you to kind of pull your head in, that humbles you. You see yourself through them.

很多人不知道的是，友谊在生理层面也会调节我们。神经科学家露丝·费尔德曼的研究表明，经常相处的好友之间会出现生理状态同步：心率趋同、同步释放催产素、脑电波呈现相似模式。

And friendship, which I don't think a lot of people know, actually regulates us biologically. The neuroscientist Ruth Feldman has conducted a lot of research in this area, and her work has shown that close friends that spend time together, their physiological states literally sync up. Their heart rates align. Their bodies release oxytocin in tandem. Their brain activity shows similar patterns.

这种现象称为生物行为同步性，解释了为何待在信任的朋友身边能显著降低压力水平。我和几位朋友就有这种感应，尤其想到我最好的朋友——最近我特意去她居住的澳大利亚小岛塔斯马尼亚给她惊喜。每次相聚，我们都会感叹那种平静与协调感，仿佛一切都变得更轻盈、更简单、更柔和。

This is a phenomenon called biobehavioral synchrony, and it explains why being near a trusted friend can and will significantly lower your stress levels. I have this with a couple of my friends, but I'm really thinking about my best friend. I surprised her recently in Tasmania, which is like this tiny island off of Australia where she lives. And every time I'm around her, we always talk about how calm and co regulated we feel. Like, everything just feels lighter and easier and softer.

换言之，真正美好的友谊不仅让生活更愉悦，更能让你成为更稳定的自己。因此当友谊变质时，造成的伤害会让人感到失衡——因为你失去的不只是一段关系，更是一个协调者、一面镜子、一股力量源泉。带着这样的认知，让我们深入探讨五种需要警惕的有毒友谊类型。

In other words, you know, really great friendships don't just make life enjoyable. They actually make you a more stable version of yourself. So that's why when friendship tips into, like, unhealthy territory, the damage can feel so destabilizing. Because in essence, you know, you're not just losing a relationship, you're losing a co regulator, you're losing a mirror, you're losing a source of strength. So with that in mind, let's dive into these five types of toxic friendships to look out for.

首先需要说明：所谓'有毒'究竟指什么？我认为'有毒'不是形容某个人，而是形容某种关系状态——我对此深信不疑。

Firstly, I wanna just give a brief caveat. What do we mean when we actually say by toxic? I don't think that toxic describes a person. I'm using it to describe a relationship. I fully believe this.

我不认为任何人天生就是有害的。我们都有一些性格特点和缺点，可能某些人不喜欢，但其他人却不会在意。有些人可能比其他人更心怀恶意或善于操纵，但这并不意味着他们本质上就是有毒的人。我也相信人天生就有改变的能力。

I don't think that anyone can be toxic. We all have character traits and flaws that someone else won't like, but other people won't have an issue with. There are some people that maybe are more malicious and manipulative than others. It doesn't mean that they are inherently a poisonous person. I also believe people inherently have a capacity to change.

这是我个人的信念。我过去做过一些不完全值得骄傲的事，也有过让人失望、做错事的时刻。确实如此。比如，我记得有些时候我没有考虑到别人的感受，结果真的伤害了他们。

That's my personal belief. There are things in my past that I'm not entirely proud of. There are moments that I have let someone down and I've done the wrong thing. Absolutely. Like, I I can remember these times when I didn't think about someone else's feelings and that really hurt them.

但我知道自己成长了，认识到了自己的行为和责任，这让我对过去伤害过我的朋友有了新的看法。仅仅根据五年前、十年前的最后印象来评判一个人并不总是公平的。在那段时间里我们变化很大，尤其是如果事情发生时你还不到30岁。我认为只有真正的反社会者才能被贴上‘有毒’的标签，即便如此，他们中有些人功能正常，学会了同理心，在友谊中的行为方式与你我并无不同。

But I know I have grown and I've acknowledged my role and my actions, and that has really helped me have this new perspective for friends that have hurt me in the past. It's not always fair to judge someone based on the last impression you had of them five years ago, ten years ago. We change so much in that time, especially if you were, like, under the age of 30 when it happened. I think only true sociopaths can be labeled as toxic, and even then, some of them are very functional, and they learn empathy. And they are no different to you and me in terms of how they act in friendships.

所以我们这里讨论的是有毒的互动模式，以及由于一个人的行为方式、另一个人的反应、他们的环境以及性格冲突可能产生的摩擦。我想一开始就澄清这一点。话虽如此，让我们介绍第一种有毒的友谊类型——竞争者。对于这类朋友或友谊，一切感觉都像是在试图超越你。你找到新工作了？

So what we are referring to here is toxic dynamics and the friction that can be created between two people because of how one person is acting, another person is responding, their environment, and how their personalities may be clashing. So I just wanna clear that up at the top. That being said, let's introduce the first type of toxic friendship, the competitor. For this type of friend or friendship, everything feels like they're trying to one up you. You got a new job?

哦，那和他们上个月的升职完全没法比。你刚跑了五公里？他们正在训练十公里呢，祝你好运。如果你去了伦敦，他们就去过巴黎。每次你分享成功或引以为豪的事情时，他们的第一反应就是匹配、超越或贬低它。

Well, that doesn't compare at all to their promotion that they had last month. You just ran five k? Well, they're training for a 10 k, so good luck with that. If you've gone to London, they went to Paris. Each time you share successes or something you're proud of, their knee jerk reaction is to match it, beat it, or downplay it.

甚至连痛苦也能变成比赛。不知道你是否经历过，但你知道那种朋友——如果你压力大，他们压力更大；如果你受伤了，他们伤得更重；如果他们刚经历分手，那你得听听他们五年前的分手故事，那才叫惨。

Even suffering can become a contest. I don't know if you've experienced this, but you know what that one friend where if you're stressed, they're more stressed. If you're hurt, they're hurting worse. If they've been through a breakup, well, you should hear about their breakup from five years ago. It was awful.

这不仅令人厌烦。久而久之，它真的会侵蚀你与他们分享任何事情的能力。因为何必呢？如果他们只会把它变成一场竞争，何必分享？这种行为的根源通常是社会比较。

This isn't just annoying. Over time, it really erodes your ability to share anything with them. Because why would you? Why would you if they're just gonna turn it into a competition? The root of this is usually social comparison.

对吧？这源于他们内心的不安全感。他们在你身上看到了威胁其脆弱自我认同的东西，于是必须通过一种特定的社会比较方式——向下社会比较，通过贬低你来让自己感觉良好。但这往往导致你开始自我审查，而友谊最美好的部分本应是分享成就与困境。若连这都做不到，友谊的意义何在？

Right? And it comes from an insecurity in them. They see something in you that threatens their, obviously, quite weak sense of self, and so they have to engage in a very specific form of social comparison called downward social comparison to make themselves feel better by making you positioning you as inferior to them. But it often means that you start to censor yourself, and one of the best parts of friendship is sharing your achievements and also sharing your hard moments. If you can't do that, what's the point?

想想看，如果永远无法真诚交流生活中的喜怒哀乐，这样的友情还有什么意义？这是第一种类型——竞争型朋友。其次，还有那种对你所做之事永远要指手画脚的朋友。接下来这类有毒朋友，我们称之为批评者或控制狂。

You know, what's the point of genuinely never being able to communicate anything good or bad about your life? So that's number one. That's the competitor. Secondly, there's the friend who always, always has something to say about what you're doing. This next type of toxic friend, we're gonna call the critic or the controller.

当你告诉对方开始新爱好时，他们翻白眼说这破坏环境/你坚持不下去/太老土。你恋爱了，他们就挑剔伴侣缺陷，说对方配不上你。起初你可能觉得好笑，

You tell them you're trying a new hobby, they roll their eyes. They tell you it's, you know, it's actually really bad for the environment, that you won't stick with it, that that's kind of lame. You're dating someone new, well, pick apart their flaws. They talk about how terrible they might be for you, how you could do better. At first, maybe you'll laugh.

甚至认为这是保护。但久而久之，这种持续不断的批评会像慢性毒药侵蚀一切。有时更会演变成赤裸裸的贬低，他们摆出无所不知的姿态，让你感到渺小，仿佛你的决定永远错误、永远不够好。

Maybe you'll see them as being protective. Over time, though, this, like, steady drip of criticism starts to kind of poison everything else. This can also sometimes transform into straight up belittlement, whereby they act as if they always know best. They make you feel smaller, like your decisions are never gonna be right. They're never gonna be good enough.

棘手之处在于，这种行为常被伪装成关心。他们会说'只是不想看你受伤'或'因为在乎才告诉你'。但真正的关心应该给予你力量，让你有信心做自己。比如'无论怎样我都支持你，不过你考虑过这个吗？'

And again, what's tricky is that this is often disguised as care. Right? They might phrase it as, I just don't wanna see you get hurt, or I'm only telling you this because I care. But if they actually cared, or they were mature enough to show they cared properly, it would actually build you up and give you the confidence to act in your own way. Something like, hey, I support you no matter what, but have you considered this?

或是'做对你最好的选择，需要时我都在，但这个其他因素你想过吗？'注意到表达方式的差异了吗？真正的朋友会谨慎温和地提出建议。

Or you do what's best for you. You know I'll always be there if you need me, but have you considered this other thing? Do you see, like, the shift in framing here? They would be delicate about it. They would be gentle.

这才是朋友应有的样子。当然，你也不需要永远附和你或对你说谎的朋友。我认为友谊的最佳标志，是当需要时能对你残酷诚实的人。但若你们事事针锋相对，这段友谊还有何存在价值？世上肯定有更合适的人。

That is what a friend should do. And sure, you know, you actually don't want a friend who is always going to agree with you or lie to you. I always say the best sign of a friendship is someone who's gonna be ruthlessly honest with you when it is helpful. But if you always disagree with someone in every single thing, and if it's always, like, a power struggle, why are you even friends? Surely, there's someone better.

事实上，他们不断的批评往往是一种试图让你保持渺小、控制你并确立主导地位的方式。根据戈特曼研究所（堪称全球顶尖的婚姻与关系专家组织之一）的研究，批评是他们所谓的'关系末日四骑士'之一。按照他们的观点，批评是关系破裂的最大征兆之一，与轻蔑、防御和沉默抵制并列。它的破坏性在于会瓦解关系中的信任，让人长期处于紧张状态。

In fact, their constant criticism is often a way to try and keep you small and control you and to assert dominance. According to the Gottman Institute, the Gottman Institute is basically like one of the leading marriage and relationship expert groups in the world. They say that criticism is one of their four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse. It is, like, one of the biggest signs of relationship breakdown according to them, and it sits alongside contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. And it's damaging because of how it breaks down trust in a relationship and puts someone on edge constantly.

批评也预示着轻蔑情绪将在你心中滋生，或导致防御心理出现，最终你会进入沉默抵制阶段——那时你已完全不在乎了。如果他们执意发表意见而你又不想听，何必再理会他们说的任何话呢？好了，目前我们已经分析了'竞争者'和'批评者'这两种有毒友谊，现在稍事休息。

Criticism is also a sign that contempt will build on your end or defensiveness will occur, and eventually you will get to that stonewalling stage where you just don't care anymore. If they're gonna give their opinion, like and you don't wanna listen to it, why listen to anything they have to say? Okay. So so far, we've had the competitor, and we've had the critic. We are gonna take a short break now.

但待会回来后，我们将向你介绍剩余三种有毒友谊类型。请继续收听。

But when we return, let's introduce you to our three remaining toxic friendships. Stay with us.

大家好，我是艾德·赫尔姆斯，欢迎回到我的播客《SNAFU》，这里讲述历史上最严重的搞砸事件。新一季节目中，每期都会带来一个全新的灾难故事。

Hey. It's Ed Helms, and welcome back to SNAFU, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new SNAFU every single episode.

32枚遗失的核武器？等等...停一下...什么？没错。

32 lost nuclear weapons? Wait. Stop. What? Yeah.

厄尼·沙克尔顿听起来像七十年代很靠谱的篮球运动员。

Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid seventies basketball player.

而且还是戴着护膝的那种。确实。

Who still wore knee pads. Yes.

这将充满历史，非常非常

It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot

的

of

有趣，还有众多嘉宾。伟大的保罗·谢尔让我感觉很好。我心想，哇哦。安吉拉和珍娜，你们能来我太兴奋了。

funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Scheer made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow. Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched you're here.

对你来说，这样温和地启动节目是什么感觉？

What was that like for you to soft launch into the show?

抱歉，珍娜。今天由我来提问。

Sorry, Jenna. I'll be asking the questions today.

我忘了我们是在录谁的播客。

I forgot whose podcast we were doing.

尼克·克罗尔，希望这个故事足够精彩，能让你放下手中的三明治。所以，让我们看看进展如何。请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听由艾德·赫尔姆斯主持的《SNAFU》第四季。

Nick Kroll, I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's let's let's see how it goes. Listen to season four of snafu with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

阿巴斯镇染上了一种恶疾。你们必须将其根除。深入地下，彻底挖出病灶。整个村庄饱受摧残，许多家庭已全军覆没。

There's a vile sickness in Abbas Town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

你知道从梦中醒来时，熟悉的地方会变得完全陌生吗？

You know how waking up from a dream, a familiar place can look completely alien?

大家退后，我们继续前进。

Get back, everyone. Let's go next.

若你们看见恶魔在光天化日下与凡人同行，就必须剜出他的心脏，焚毁其躯体，将骨灰撒在这座城镇最偏远的角落以示警戒。

And if you see the devil walking around in sight of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body, and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town as a warning.

由iHeart播客与亚伦·曼基的Grim and Mild联合出品，《混乱小镇》——一部设定在布里奇沃特音频宇宙中的全新虚构播客剧，主演朱尔斯·斯泰特与雷·怀斯。请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任意播客平台收听《混乱小镇》。

From iHeart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jules State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

恶魔正在阿巴斯镇游荡。

The devil walks in Abbasstown.

嘿，姐妹。如果我保证你再也不用听那些居高临下的金融男说教如何理财呢？欢迎收听《棕色雄心》。偿还信用卡债务是最艰难的部分。如果你没弄清当初为何透支信用或依赖信用卡，一年后很可能重蹈覆辙。

Hey, sis. What if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance bro tell you how to manage your money again? Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now.

当你确实因高利率感到不堪重负时，我建议你开始寻找债务合并贷款，先从当地信用合作社着手，再到网上多方比较，寻找一些在线贷款机构，因为它们通常收费更少、更经济实惠。听着，我不是来评判的。现在生活成本实在太高了。我完全能理解短短几个月内，你怎么会累积这么多信用卡债务，这确实让人喘不过气。

When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan, starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen. I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets. I a 100% can see how in just a few months, you can have this much credit card debt, and it weighs on you.

人们很容易像鸵鸟一样把头埋进沙子里。沙子里又舒服又黑暗。但即使你逃避现实，问题也不会自动消失。事实上，这只会让情况变得更糟。想获取更多不带批判色彩的理财建议，请收听iHeartRadio应用或苹果播客上的《Brown Ambition》节目，或在任意播客平台搜索收听。

It's really easy to just, like, stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not gonna go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it make it even worse. For more judgment free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

欢迎收听《解码女性健康》。我是伊丽莎白·波因特医生，纽约市Atria健康研究院女性健康与妇科主任。在本节目中，我将对话顶尖研究人员和临床医师，解答你们最关切的问题，把关于女性健康与中年期的前沿信息直接传递给大家。

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm doctor Elizabeth Poynter, chair of women's health and gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you.

百分之百的女性都会经历更年期。这可能严重影响我们的生活质量，但即便这是自然过程，为什么

A hundred percent of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life, but even if it's natural, why

我们就该默默忍受这些痛苦？

should we suffer through it?

人们常提到的症状包括健忘——我以前从不会忘事。她们一方面担心自己得了痴呆症，另一方面又在怀疑：我是不是患了注意力缺陷多动症？

The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one, they have dementia and the other one is do I have ADHD?

大麻素类药物展现出前所未有的潜力：它能改善睡眠、减轻疼痛、调节情绪，最终提升日常生活质量。

There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood and also to have better day to day life.

请收听伊丽莎白·波因特医生主持的《解码女性健康》节目，可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您当前使用的任何播客平台收听。

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with doctor Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening now.

好的。我们已经讲完两种类型，还剩三种。准备好了吗？继竞争者与批评者之后，我们要说的是八卦者。相信大家都遇到过这类人。

Okay. So we have two down, three to go. Are you ready? After the competitor and the critic, we have the gossip. I know we've all met one of these people before.

有趣的是，他们最初可能极具吸引力。你知道的，这些人往往消息灵通，由于知晓所有人的私事而显得很受欢迎。接近他们会有种成为圈内人的感觉，他们通常魅力十足。

The funny thing about them is that they can actually be really magnetic at first. You know, they are often the ones who always know what's happening. They seem kind of popular because they know everything in everyone's business. Being close to them can feel like being on the inside. They're often very charismatic.

但最终你会意识到：等等，他们好像从未谈论过自己。他们只讨论别人或对别人的看法。又或者，在八卦间隙中，他们开始打探你生活中极其私密的细节。这时你会顿悟——既然他们这样议论所有人，肯定也会这样议论我。我不觉得自己能成为例外。

But eventually you realize, hey, I don't think they've talked about themselves once. They only talk about other people or their opinions about other people. Or maybe in between all the gossip, they start asking you really personal, really intrusive questions about your life. And then you kind of have this realization, like, If they're talking about everyone else like this, they're probably talking about me too. I don't think that I'm gonna be excluded from this.

我很确定自己也会成为谈资。这破坏了信任。而一旦信任破裂，我认为几乎不可能再安心敞开心扉。友谊建立在保密基础上，依赖于相信你的脆弱会被小心守护。当这些被四处传播，任何亲密关系的根基都会崩塌。

I'm fairly sure, like, I'm gonna be a target. That breaks trust. And once that trust is broken, I think it's nearly impossible to feel safe about opening up again. Friendship thrives on confidentiality and on the belief that your vulnerabilities are held close and and careful. So when those get broadcast, any foundation of intimacy, like, falls apart.

我还发现，八卦者往往把他人的秘密当作社交货币，就像某种权力工具。当你成为被牺牲的那个人时，感觉糟透了——你的隐私正被用来满足他们的虚荣。最终，这种社交性的秘密挖掘会反噬他们自己。

I've also found that with the gossip, they tend to use others' secrets as social currency, like, as a form of money. Like, they're a way to gain power for themselves. And so when you're the kind of person who they're sacrificing, like, it doesn't feel good. Your secrets are being used to bolster their ego. Eventually, all of that kind of social secret mining, it's gonna turn on them.

也一定会反噬到你身上。我向你保证。终有一天你会发现，有人知道某个你从未告诉过他们的秘密。是谁泄露的？就是那个八卦者。

It's gonna turn on you. I promise you that. You will realize one day that someone knows something about you that you did not tell them. Who told them that? The gossip.

此外，我也觉得整天谈论别人会变得相当无聊，而且感觉有点恶心。你能在身体里感受到那种共情和愧疚。并不是说我们所有人都不该八卦——这其实是人类非常自然的行为。但事后，我不知道你怎么想，我会感到非常不舒服。

Additionally, I also just think it gets pretty boring talking about other people all the time, and it feels kind of nasty. You feel the empathy and guilt in your body. It's not to say that none of us, all of us, like, shouldn't be gossiping. It's actually a very natural human thing. But afterwards, I don't know about you, I feel pretty gross about it.

我总是忍不住要补充说，'哦，但他们其实人很好，只是这个那个...' 所以如果你有个朋友总是八卦且毫无愧疚感，这可能反映出你们价值观的深层差异。你最终会想：他们哪来这么多精力？他们真正感兴趣的到底是什么？我们之间还能聊些什么？

And I always feel the need to be like, oh, you know, but they're such a good person, but this this this. So if you're friends with someone who's always gossiping and doesn't seem to have that same reaction, sometimes it could say something deeper about your values. You kind of end up thinking, like, how in the world do you have the stamina for this? What else are they actually even interested in? What do we even talk about?

他们自己的生活还剩下什么？什么都没有。问题未必在于你的秘密被泄露，而是这段友谊本身就很乏味。接下来这种有毒友谊很难察觉，那就是受害者或操控者类型。

What's left in their own life? Nothing. It's not necessarily that your secrets are being shared. It might just be that this friendship is kinda boring. This next toxic friendship is actually pretty hard to spot, and this is the victim or the manipulator.

受害者永远是被亏待的那个。老板总是不公平，伴侣总是很刻薄，其他朋友总是疏忽大意。起初你可能会同情他们。

The victim is always wronged. Their boss is always unfair to them. Their partner is always cruel. Their other friends are neglectful. At first, you might feel bad for them.

当然会这样。你自然会想相信他们——这些人对待他们的方式太可怕了，这太糟糕了。你想给予支持。

Of course, you would. Of course, you would wanna believe them. You know, how awful are these people treating them? This is so terrible. You wanna show them support.

但在某个时刻，你会开始注意到对话里永远没有你的需求。另一个迹象是他们从不为自己行为负责。当然，友谊中总会有人需要更多支持，不可能永远五五开。但如果经过你的建议、帮助和安慰后情况毫无改善，而且他们总是换新的抱怨对象...那我只能说...

But somewhere along the line, you do begin to notice how your needs never really make it into the conversation. And another thing you may notice is that they never seem to take responsibility for their actions. Of course, there are always going to be times when someone needs more support than others within a friendship. It can't always be a fifty fifty split. But if nothing ever resolves, even after your advice, your assistance, your comfort, and it's always a new person for them, well, I don't know.

我不相信一个人的运气能糟糕到这种程度。更可能的情况是：当你终于设定界限说'我太累了不能见面'，或者表达自己感到被忽视时，他们会突然反转剧情。他们可能会说：'看来我是个糟糕的朋友'。

I just don't believe one person's luck is ever that bad. What might happen is that when you finally set a boundary and you say, you know, I can't hang out. I'm super exhausted. Or you mentioned that you feel a little bit unheard or you don't feel great, they flip the script. They might say something like, well, I guess I'm a bad friend.

我想我还是让你一个人待着吧，让你感到内疚，怀疑自己是否过于苛刻，尽管你所做的只是设立了一个界限。在极端情况下，我认为这有时会演变成心理操控。他们可能会扭曲事实，让你成为他们不快乐的罪魁祸首。你变成了他们向其他朋友讲述的反派角色。某种程度上，可能还会卷入流言蜚语中。

I guess I'll just leave you alone then, leaving you feeling guilty, wondering if you were too harsh, even though all you did was put a boundary in place. In the most extreme cases, I do think this sometimes veers into gaslighting. They might turn the narrative so that you're the one at fault for their unhappiness. You become the villain they tell all their other friends about. Maybe converging in a sense into the gossip as well.

这种不断循环的试图做正确的事、内疚、自我怀疑，然后疲惫不堪的过程非常消耗精力，它会让你对自己的立场感到不确定。你不想让他们失望，但你也想尊重自己。我认为在这五种有毒的友谊中，这是最难摆脱的一种。最后，我们还有最罕见的一种，那就是纯粹刻薄的朋友。他们是竞争心强、控制流言和扮演受害者的综合体。

This constant cycle of trying to do the right thing, guilt, self doubt, and then exhaustion is super draining, and it can leave you kind of unsure of where you stand. You don't wanna let them down, but you also wanna respect yourself. I think of all the five toxic friendships, this is the hardest one to walk away from. Finally, we have the rarest type of all, and that is the friend who was just downright mean. They are the combination of competitive, controlling the gossip and the victim.

有时你可能很难在他们身上找到任何可取之处。简单来说，他们就是对你不太友好。在群体场合中，他们让你成为笑话的靶子。他们似乎总是破坏原本愉快的时光。他们总是充满敌意。

Sometimes you might struggle to find, like, literally any redeeming quality about them. Simply put, they are just not very nice to you. They make you the punchline of the jokes in the group setting. They always seem to ruin a perfectly nice time. They are always hostile.

他们背叛你。他们与你的伴侣调情。他们泄露你的秘密。他们暗中破坏你。这个人可能是朋友。

They betray you. They flirt with your partner. They out a secret about you. They sabotage you. This person may be a friend.

我也认为他们有时可能是家庭成员、兄弟姐妹或同事。坦白说，你可以看出他们不喜欢你。但出于某种原因，他们最终仍留在你的生活中。也许因为你们身处相同的社交圈。也许因为你们的生活紧密交织。

I also think that they could sometimes be a family member, a sibling, a colleague. To put it frankly, like, you can tell they don't like you. But for some reason, like, they end up remaining in your life. Maybe because you run-in the same circles. Maybe because, you know, your lives are so intertwined.

也许他们是家人。也许他们有时表现得非常友善。但他们的敌意也同样明显。我认为所有这些有毒的友谊都会留下伤痕。

Maybe they're family. Maybe they are super nice. Sometimes. But their hostility is also super obvious. I think all of these toxic friendships can leave scars.

尤其是这种类型，我认为它会造成与恋爱关系非常相似的依恋创伤，因为它可能感觉像是一种彻底的冒犯。在我们讨论你们现在可能都在问的问题——为什么我们不直接离开之前，让我们先简单谈谈如何识别自己是否处于这种动态的友谊中。识别有毒友谊最困难的部分之一是，危险信号并不总是显而易见的。不像有人会大喊大叫。

This kind in particular though, I think can cause attachment wounds very similar to that of a romantic relationship, because it can feel like a full on affront. Before we talk about the question you're probably all asking right now, why don't we just walk away? Let's just quickly talk about how you can spot if you are in a friendship with with this kind of dynamic. One of the hardest parts of recognizing a toxic friendship is that the red flags don't always look obvious. It's not like someone is being like, woo hoo.

别和我做朋友。我会对你很糟糕。这不像伴侣对你不好时那样，比如他们出轨或对你刻薄，那是非黑即白的。我们可以公开讨论这些。就像我说的，我们经常谈论恋爱中的危险信号。

Don't be friends with me. I'm gonna treat you terribly. And it's not like when a partner has been awful to you, you know, if they've cheated or were nasty to you, it's pretty clear cut. And we talk about it openly. Like I said, we talk about red flags in relationships all the time.

但朋友间的伤害要微妙得多。是你看到他们进房间时微微退缩的样子，是计划取消时的如释重负，是发现和他们相处后自我感觉更糟而非更好。我们可以用'情感残留'这个概念来描述这种现象。

But with friends, it's a lot more subtle. It's the way you shrink a little when you see them come in the room. It's the feeling of relief when your plans get canceled. It's noticing that after hanging out with them, you feel worse about yourself, not better. So a concept we might use to refer to this is what we call emotional residue.

即使对话结束，即使聚会散场，那种负面黏腻的残留感仍挥之不去。你感到不适，反复咀嚼自己说过的话，怀疑是否反应过度，整个人精疲力竭。

Even when the conversation is over, even when the hangout is done, that negative sticky residue lingers. You feel gross. You replay what you said. You question if you overreacted. You feel really drained.

随着时间的推移，这种残留感还会累积。它不仅是情绪消耗，更会切实影响我们的身体状况。关于社交压力的研究表明，不良关系会提升皮质醇水平，损害睡眠质量。

And over time, that residue actually accumulates as well. It's not just emotionally draining. This actually has a huge impact on how we feel in our bodies. Studies on social stress show that difficult relationships elevate cortisol. They impair sleep.

它们还会削弱免疫力。犹他大学2012年发表的一项研究揭示了这种影响的严重程度。该研究涉及136名成年人，调查了他们与朋友、家人及熟人的关系，测量了这些纽带带来的积极与消极感受。研究人员主要观察参与者端粒长度的差异——端粒是染色体末端的保护帽。

They weaken immunity. One such study published in 2012 by the University of Utah shows the extent of this impact. So in the study, this involved a 136 adults, and they looked into their relationships with friends, with family, with acquaintances, and they measured both the positive and negative feeling associated with these bonds. The researchers were basically looking into whether there was any difference in the length of the participants' telomeres. Telomeres are basically the protective caps we have on our chromosomes.

本质上它们保护DNA免受损伤，就像DNA的安全头盔。虽然有些专业，但简而言之端粒越短，患慢性病风险越高，寿命也越短。研究想探究积极/消极关系与端粒长度是否存在关联。结果发现：那些拥有更多大起大落（本质上是毒性友谊）关系的参与者，其端粒长度更短。

Basically, they protect our DNA from damage. They're like helmets for our DNA. It's kind of technical, but basically the shorter the telomere, the higher the risk of chronic diseases and the shorter lifespan. And they wanted to see, is there a link between positive and negative relationships and telomere length? What they found was that for the participants with a higher number of relationships that had both really high highs and really low lows, basically a toxic friendship, the shorter the length of the telomeres.

让我们深入解读这些发现。研究表明，与拥有全然美好关系的人相比——有趣的是，甚至与那些只有糟糕关系的人相比——处于动荡关系中的人患慢性病和应激反应的风险更高。该研究的关键发现是：真正影响健康和端粒长度的，是关系好坏转换的剧烈程度，是这些关系的'毒性指数'。那种好坏参半、情感拉扯的状态才是最危险的。

Let's dive into these findings a little bit more. They basically suggest that these participants who had been in turbulent up and down relationships had a higher risk of chronic conditions and stress reactivity compared to people who had obviously all great relationships, but interestingly, also people who just had a lot of pretty terrible relationships. According to the findings of this study, what really mattered here, what really impacted health and and telomere length was the intensity of the switch up and was the kind of toxicity meter of these relationships. It was the fact that there were some good parts and some bad parts. This emotional push and pull, that was dangerous.

这意味着即使这段友谊本身并非全然糟糕，但其不稳定性本身就会造成伤害。与之形成对比，让我们谈谈健康友谊的样貌。我知道这听起来有点傻，但我认为这真的非常非常有趣。而且我从未见过有人讨论过这一点。九十年代，研究者Medelson和Abbott提出了坚固友谊的六大关键特质模型。

That means that even when the friendship isn't necessarily all bad, the inconsistency itself in this friendship is what can take a toll. So to contrast that, let's talk about what a good friendship feels like. And I know this feels kinda silly, but I actually think this is really, really fascinating. And I've never seen anyone talk about this before. In the nineties, researchers Medelson and Abbott proposed a model of six key qualities of strong friendships.

这些特质包括：激发性陪伴（即共同参与愉悦活动）、互助（彼此提供支持与指导）、亲密（分享私人事务）、可靠同盟（信任与情感安全感）、以及自我价值确认。简而言之，你们互相鼓励以保持积极自我认知——好朋友会为你喝彩而非竞争，给予鼓励而非批评。

These included stimulating companionship, so engaging in enjoyable activities together, help, providing each other with support and guidance, intimacy, so sharing personal things with each other. They also included a reliable alliance, so trust, emotional security, and self validation. Basically, you encourage each other to feel good about each other and to maintain a positive self image. That means a good friend celebrates you instead of competing with you. They encourage you instead of criticizing you.

他们会倾听你，陪伴你，不会在背后议论你。研究不仅表明拥有更多优质深厚友谊的人对生活满意度和幸福感的评价更高，2022年的后续研究还发现这类友谊几乎能形成对抗压力的防护罩。

They listen to you. They spend time with you. They don't gossip about you. Not only does the research suggest that those who have more of these good quality strong friendships tend to rate their life satisfaction and their well-being more highly? But a follow-up study in 2022 found that having these strong friendships is almost protective against stress.

这项在奥地利进行的研究聚焦疫情期间的大学生群体，发现拥有良好友谊的人实际上承受的长期伤害更小。当然现在时过境迁，但我认为这个结论在其他层面依然成立——友谊正是让我们坚强的支柱。若某人暗地里希望你失败，这种关系显然毫无助益。

So that study, it was done in Austria. It found and it focused on university students during the pandemic, and it found that when they had good friendships, they actually suffered less long term. Obviously, like, that's a different time now, but I still think this plays out on a lot of other scales. You know, they are what keeps us strong. And so if you've got someone who secretly wants to be your worst enemy and secretly like, secretly wants to see you fail, it's not they're pretty it's not gonna help.

这类人虽难以察觉，但其负面影响真实存在。既然有毒关系的危害如此明显，我们为何仍深陷其中？这个问题很复杂，我曾多次自问。让我们在短暂休息后继续探讨。

Like, it it's hard to notice them, but their impact is felt. So if it's so clear that these toxic relationships harm us, why do we stay? This is complicated. I've asked myself this question many times. So let's talk about it after this short break.

大家好，我是艾德·赫尔姆斯，欢迎回到我的历史重大失误播客《SNAFU》。新季节目中，每期都将带来一个全新槽点。

Hey. It's Ed Helms, and welcome back to SNAFU, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new SNAFU every single episode.

32枚遗失的核武器？等等...什么？你再说一遍？

32 lost nuclear weapons? You're like, wait. Stop. What? What?

是啊。厄尼·沙克尔顿听起来像是个七十年代坚如磐石的篮球运动员。

Yeah. Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid seventies basketball player.

还戴着护膝的那种。

Who still wore knee pads.

没错。这将充满历史、笑料和众多嘉宾。伟大的保罗·谢尔让我感觉超棒，心想‘哇哦’。安吉拉和珍娜，你们能来我太兴奋了。

Yes. It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Scheer made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow. Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched you're here.

对你们来说，这样温和地开启节目感觉如何？

What was that like for you to soft launch into the show?

抱歉珍娜，今天该由我来提问。

Sorry, Jenna. I'll be asking the questions today.

我都忘了这是在做谁的播客了。

I forgot whose podcast we were doing.

尼克·克罗尔，希望这个故事精彩到能让你扔掉手里的三明治。咱们拭目以待吧。请在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或任何你获取播客的平台收听艾德·赫尔姆斯主持的《Snafu》第四季。

Nick Kroll, I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's let's let's see how it goes. Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

阿巴斯镇染上了一种恶疾。你们必须将其根除。深入地下挖掘，彻底铲除它。村庄已被摧毁，整户整户的人家都遭了殃。

There's a vile sickness in Abbas Town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out. The village is ravaged. Entire families have been consumed.

你可曾有过这样的体验——从梦中醒来时，熟悉的地方会变得完全陌生？

You know how waking up from a dream, a familiar place can look completely alien?

大家退后。我们去跳舞吧。还有

Get back, everyone. Let's go dance. And

若你看见恶魔在光天化日下行走于人群之中，就必须剜出他的心脏，焚烧其躯体，将骨灰撒在这座城镇最偏远的角落，以儆效尤。

if you see the devil walking around in sight of another man, you must cut out the very heart of him, burn his body, and scatter the ashes in the furthest corner of this town as a warning.

本节目由iHeart Podcasts与亚伦·曼基的Grim and Mild联合呈现，欢迎收听《混乱之城》——一部设定在布里奇沃特音频宇宙中的全新虚构类播客，由朱尔斯·斯泰特和雷·怀斯主演。您可通过iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何播客平台收听《混乱之城》。

From iHeart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jules State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

恶魔正在阿伯特镇游荡。

The devil walks in Abbottstown.

欢迎收听《解码女性健康》。我是伊丽莎白·波因特医生，纽约市阿德里亚健康研究所女性健康与妇科主任。在本节目中，我将对话顶尖研究人员和临床医师，解答您最关切的问题，将关于女性健康与中年期的前沿资讯直接传递给您。

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Doctor. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you.

百分之百的女性都会经历更年期。这对我们的生活质量可能是一场巨大的挣扎。但即便这是自然现象，为什么

A hundred percent of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life. But even if it's natural, why

我们就该默默忍受？

should we suffer through it?

人们常讨论的症状包括忘性大。我以前从不会忘事。她们一方面担心自己得了痴呆症，另一方面又在想：我是不是有注意力缺陷多动症？

The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one, they have dementia, and the other one is do I have ADHD?

大麻和大麻素在改善睡眠、减轻疼痛、调节情绪以及提升日常生活质量方面展现出前所未有的潜力。

There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day to day life.

欢迎收听《解码女性健康》节目，伊丽莎白·波因特医生主讲，您可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或当前使用的任何平台收听。

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Doctor. Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening now.

姐妹听我说。要是我保证你再也不用听那些居高临下的金融男说教如何理财呢？欢迎来到《棕色雄心》。偿还信用卡债务是最艰难的部分。如果不深究当初为何频繁刷卡或依赖信用卡，一年后你很可能重蹈覆辙。

Hey, sis. What if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance bro tell you how to manage your money again? Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now.

当你被高利率压得喘不过气时，建议你开始寻找债务合并贷款，先从本地信用合作社着手，再到网上比价，看看在线贷款机构——它们通常手续费更低、更实惠。听着，我绝非来评判的。这年头生活成本太高了。我完全理解短短几个月就能累积这么多信用卡债务，这种压力确实令人窒息。

When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan, starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable. Listen. I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets. I a 100% can see how in just a few months, you can have this much credit card debt, and it weighs on you.

把头埋进沙子里逃避现实确实很容易。沙子里又舒服又黑暗。但即使你躲着它，可怕的事情也不会消失，反而可能变得更糟。想获取更多不带评判的理财建议，请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你收听播客的平台关注《布朗雄心》。

It's really easy to just, like, stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not gonna go away just because you're avoiding it, and in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我在播客里多次讲过这个故事，跨越了很多年。小时候我曾遭受严重欺凌。记得小学时，我特别想加入一个朋友圈子。每个周末我都让父母用座机打电话约他们玩耍，但对方家长总说'抱歉，她这周很忙'。

I've talked about this on the podcast a few times, throughout the many years. But when I was a kid, I was pretty badly bullied. When I was in primary school, I remember once, like, this group of friends that I really liked. Every weekend, I would get my parents to call them on, like, the home phone to have, like, play dates on the weekends. And they would always be like, oh, sorry.

那些家长总是推脱说'不好意思，孩子没空'。结果周一上学时，我就会从他们口中得知周末所有人都聚会了。

Like, the parents would be like, oh, sorry. She's busy. Sorry. They're busy. And then on Monday, I would, like, find out that they were all hanging out, because they'd tell me.

高中时有次我提议玩秘密圣诞老人，朋友们都说这主意蠢透了。学期最后一天，我骑车经过学校旁的公园，却看见他们正在交换礼物。发现我后，他们大笑着躲藏起来。可我还是和这些人做朋友，直到我离开那个州。

One time I remember when I was in high school, I was like to my friends, let's do Secret Santa. And they were all like, that's such a stupid idea. And then on the last day of school, I was riding my bike home through the park next to our school, and I saw them there, all like exchanging gifts. And they, like, saw me, and they laughed, and they, like, ducked down. I stayed friends with those people until I left the state.

为什么这样？部分源于历史惯性。多年友谊让你依赖他们构建自我认知，至少不用独自面对世界。斩断联系太难了——他们已织进你生命的经纬，强行抽离会让人感到绝望、恐惧与孤立无援。

Why did I do that? Part of it is history. If you've been friends for years, you're reliant on them for at least some sense of who you are or just to not feel alone. Cutting ties feels very difficult. You have woven them into your life, and so to untangle that can feel impossible and very, very scary and very isolating.

害怕被排挤、担心破坏团体和谐、恐惧再无他人可依——这些都很关键。社会归属感是人类核心需求，我们天生会不计代价维护它。但最重要的原因或许是研究中提到的：希望。有毒友谊从来不是100%糟糕，其间闪烁着快乐、温情与怀旧时刻。

The fear of being left out, the fear of rocking the boat in the broader group, fear of not having anyone else, like, that's a big factor. Social belonging is a really important human need, and we have been wired to protect it at all costs. But maybe the most significant reason we're drawn back into this time and time again is what that study said earlier, the hope, the up and down relationships. Toxic friendships are never a 100% bad. There are flashes of joy and kindness and nostalgia.

每个人都有可取之处。心理学家称之为间歇性强化——当好坏不可预测地交替出现时，关系反而更难割舍，因为你总在追逐下一个美好瞬间，期待它能抵消伤害。这种模式见于赌博、成瘾、虐恋关系中，那种推拉循环与对快感的追逐。

Every single person has redeeming qualities. Psychologists have a name for this. It's called intermittent reinforcement. When good and bad are mixed kind of unpredictably, the bond becomes even harder to break because you keep chasing the next good moment, and you hope that it will be enough to outweigh the bad. We see this play out in gambling, in addiction, toxic romance relationships, the push, the pull, the cycle of chasing the highs.

让我们停滞不前的并非软弱，而是一种非常人性化的、想要维系连接的渴望。这种循环使得抽身变得异常困难，因为如何判断一个人已经耗尽了太多机会？这是个令人痛苦的问题。事实上，我无法给你标准答案——世上不存在通用的次数上限。

It's not weakness that keeps us stuck, but actually a very human desire to preserve the connection. And this kind of cycle makes it really hard to walk away, because how do you know when someone's had too many chances? It's a very agonizing question. The truth is, I'm not gonna be able to give you an answer. There isn't a universal number.

更值得思考的问题是：他们如何对待你给过的机会？既然你开始考虑这个问题，说明这已不是孤立事件，而可能形成了某种模式。当你表达感受时，他们是倾听还是敷衍？是承担责任还是推诿指责？

Instead, the better question to ask is, what have they already done with the chances you have given them? Because the fact that you're considering the question means it's not a one off event. It's likely become a pattern. So when you bring up your feelings, do they listen, or do they dismiss you? Do they take responsibility, or do they shift blame?

他们是否做出改变，还是不断重复错误？若这是恋爱关系，你会容忍这种模式吗？健康的关系不在于完美无缺，而在于修复冲突的能力——这正是心理学中的'破裂与修复'理论。

Do they make changes, or do they repeat it again and again? And if this was a romantic partner, would you tolerate this pattern? Healthy relationships aren't perfect. They're not defined by the absence of conflict, but the ability to repair this conflict. This is known in psychology as rupture and repair theory.

许多长久的关系都经历过艰难时刻。你们共同修复裂痕的过程恰恰证明了爱与承诺。如果对方通过道歉、行为改变和持续努力来弥补，或许值得再给机会。但若每次机会都换来空洞道歉、借口或故态复萌，问题就不再是'该给几次机会'，而是'为何我还要继续给予'。若你陷入这种困境，那确实非常艰难。

A lot of really long lasting relationships have really hard moments. The fact that you band together and fix it and repair it shows love and commitment. If someone shows willingness to repair after a rupture through apologies, changed behavior, consistency, yeah, they may deserve another chance. But if every chance is met with empty apologies, excuses, or if they just go straight back to what they have done before, the question may become not how many chances should I give them, but why am I still offering them? If you find yourself at this point, that's very difficult.

友谊不像婚姻或工作那样有契约或仪式维系。它们可能若即若离，悄然演变，这使得何时该放手变得难以判断。我将提供处理毒性友谊的步骤，首先是：在身心安全的前提下，澄清问题永远是第一步。我们常幻想直接消失，但有时所谓的'毒性'可能仅仅源于对方的无意识。

Friendships aren't built on contracts or ceremonies like marriages or jobs. They can fade in and out, and they can evolve silently, and that can make knowing when to walk away very confusing. So I'm gonna outline some steps that you can take to address a toxic friendship, starting with this first one. If you feel physically and emotionally safe, clarity is always the first step. It's very easy to fantasize about just disappearing, but sometimes what feels like toxicity can actually stem just from a lack of awareness.

他们根本不知道你的感受。相信我，幽灵式断联绝非良策。我曾因种种原因对一位朋友这样做，尽管当时觉得无法挽回，现在我深感后悔——真的非常后悔。

They just don't know how you're feeling. And trust me, ghosting isn't a good solution. I've done that to a friend I really didn't think I could repair things with for a lot of reasons. And despite that, I really regret it. I regret it actually a lot.

当时觉得理所当然，但我多希望我们曾有机会好好沟通。当然，若用'你总是这么消极'或'你这个朋友真差劲'这类指责开场，对方必定会防卫反击。但当我们围绕自身感受表达关切，就为修复留下了可能。比如可以说：'当你临时取消约定时，我会觉得自己不被重视。'

At the time, it felt right, but I wish that we'd had a chance to maybe just maybe been able to hash things out. Of course, when we approach someone with accusations like you're always so negative or you're such a bad friend, They're gonna get defensive. They're gonna turn it back on you. But when we frame our concerns around our own feelings, we leave the door open for, again, repair. That might sound like, you know, when you cancel last minute, I feel unimportant.

我知道你不是那个意思，但这让我感觉自己无足轻重。焦点在于对你造成的影响，而非他们的品性，这样对话就从指责转向了可能性。有时人们就是意识不到自己的行为会造成什么影响。他们只是不知道。他们习惯了用另一种方式与人相处。

I know you don't mean it that way, but this makes me feel like I don't matter. The focus is on the impact it had on you, not their character, and this shifts the conversation from blame to possibility. Sometimes people just don't realize how their behavior lands. They just don't know. They're used to interacting with people in a different way.

在这种情况下，一次简单的交谈就能彻底改变局面。听我说，当你感到不堪重负、愤怒或沮丧时，发泄是最容易的事。但长远来看，成熟地处理问题会让你感觉好得多。我告诉你，当你意识到'嘿，我这次处理得比以前好多了'的那个瞬间——

And in those cases, like a simple conversation can actually change the entire dynamic. Let me tell you this. When you are overwhelmed, angry, frustrated, lashing out is the easiest thing you can do. But, oh my gosh, in the long term, it feels a lot better to handle things maturely. And I'm telling you, like, when you get to a moment where you realize, hey, like, I handled this so much better than I would have before.

比如'我为自己能和他们谈这件事感到骄傲'，你会自我感觉非常好。你甚至会想和他们聊聊，说'嘿，我们处理得太棒了，看我们在成长呢'。那是个美妙的时刻。

Like, I'm so proud of talking with them about this. You feel great about yourself. Like, you kind of even wanna talk to them about it and be like, hey, we handled that so well. Like, look at us growing as people. It's a good moment.

真正要从这里开始。我恳请你从这种清醒的认知出发。如果行为没有改变，那就是设定界限的时候了。有件事值得强调：界限不是惩罚。

Really start there. I implore you to start at that point of clarity. If the behavior doesn't change, that's when boundaries come in. Here's something worth emphasizing. Boundaries are not meant to be punishments.

它们实际上是你希望被如何对待的说明。有句我喜欢的名言：界限是让我既能爱你，同时又不失去自我的距离。我觉得这很深刻。它们不是将人拒之门外的墙，而是保持连接的准则——只要对方愿意尊重这些界限。

They are actually instructions for how you want to be treated. There is a famous quote that I love that says boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and still love myself simultaneously. I think that's profound. They're not walls to, like, shut people out. They're actually guidelines that allow you to stay connected if the other person is willing to respect them.

一个界限可以是：如果你让我在谈话后感到被评判，我就无法继续交谈。或者当你在他人面前开那种玩笑时，我需要退出。界限必须具体，要有因果关系。因为你做了这件事——

A boundary is I can't keep talking to you if you make me feel judged afterwards. Or when you make those jokes in front of other people, I need to step back. The boundaries need to be specific. There needs to be cause and effect. You did this.

所以我这样回应。它们不能是模糊的要求，比如'对我更用心些'或'友善点'。必须具体明确：我需要你和我制定计划，需要你信守我们的承诺。

I'm responding this way. They cannot be, like, vague demands to, like, you know, try harder with me or be nicer. They need to be specific. I need you to make plans with me. I need you to honor our commitments.

我希望你在他人面前积极评价我。如果对方仍无视这些界限，采取行动至关重要，这也是最困难的部分。并非指戏剧性的最后通牒或争吵，可以只是减少相处时间、不再分享脆弱心事，或让友谊逐渐淡出焦点。

I need you to speak positively about me around other people. If the person in question then decides to disregard these boundaries, it is really important to act. It's the hardest part. And it doesn't mean, like, a dramatic ultimatum or a fight. It can simply mean reducing how much time you spend together or choosing not to share vulnerable information or letting the friendship kinda just move to the background a little bit.

界限是份契约。若你宣称某界限不容妥协，却允许其被突破而不予追究，它就沦为一种建议。有时你需要教会别人如何对待你——这本是常识，但不同人的行为习惯确有差异。

A boundary is a contract. If you say a boundary is a nonnegotiable, but then allowed it to be crossed without consequences, you know, it doesn't really work. It just kinda becomes like a suggestion. So you need to be ready to teach people sometimes how to treat you, which everyone knew. But, again, sometimes people just are used to different things.

他们的表达方式不同，文化背景不同，性格也不同。因此确立清晰的界限反而能帮助他们更好地对待你。我建议你寻求其他可信赖朋友的意见，尤其是那些能提供客观视角的。

They have a different way of saying things. They have a different culture. They have a different personality. So make sure that you have a clear boundary that may actually help them treat you better. I would also advise that you lean on other friends for their perspective, specifically ones that you trust.

我们讨论过朋友如同镜子。有毒的朋友会扭曲这面镜子，让你觉得自己无理取闹。与支持你的人探讨能获得现实检验，还能预先演练应对方式。有毒关系常伴随煤气灯效应和转移话题，提前练习保持冷静很有帮助。

We've talked about how friends can be mirrors to ourselves. Toxic friends can warp that mirror, make it feel like we're being unreasonable or selfish. Talking it through with supportive people gives you that reality check. It allows you to practice possible responses in advance as well. Toxic dynamics often come with gaslighting or deflection, so rehearsing how you'll stay calm can really help.

比如预判对方会说'你反应过度'时，可以和朋友演练回应：'我理解你的看法，但这对我很重要。'最关键的是——允许自己在不想继续时退出。友谊固然珍贵，但并非都值得挽救，有时顺其自然才是最健康的选择。

For example, if you know they're gonna say, like, you're overreacting, practice saying to a friend, I hear you, but this is still important to me. And I think maybe most importantly to note, give yourself permission to step away if you don't wanna be there anymore. Friendships are valuable. Not all of them are worth preparing. Sometimes the healthiest thing is simply just to let nature take its course.

就让关系自然淡化。当然并非总能如此。常有人问我：'这个糟糕的朋友和我同属某个圈子，牵扯众多共同好友，局面会很难处理。'

Just let the person fade out. That might not always be possible. Something I always get asked is like, I have this terrible person that I'm friends with, but but we are in a friendship group. We have all these friends, all these connections. It's gonna get messy.

该怎么办？这种情况下，目标应从终结友谊转为管理相处模式。坦白说，这会很尴尬，偶尔也不舒服，只因关系本质已变。

What do I do? I think in those moments, the goal shifts from ending the friendship to managing the dynamic. I'm gonna be honest. It's gonna be awkward. It's gonna be a little bit uncomfortable at times, purely because the dynamic has changed.

但我向你保证，你能承受不适感。这没关系。但非常关键的是，避免试图拉拢整个群体并要求他们选边站队。这是一种非常自然的冲动。不要强迫他人接受你的观点。

But I promise you, you can handle discomfort. It's okay. But it is really important to avoid trying to recruit the whole group and ask them to take sides. This is, like, a very natural instinct. Do not force people to see your perspective.

他们自会形成自己的看法。你的任务不是说服他们。但也不要回避问题。逃避往往比那个恶毒之人更能孤立你，而且这可能正是他们的手段之一。相反，你应该制定行动计划。

They will naturally form their own opinions. Your job isn't to convince them. Don't avoid the situation either. Avoidance can often isolate you more than the toxic person ever did, and it can be part of their toolkit. Instead, go on with a game plan.

你要保持礼貌。保持中立态度。把精力集中在支持你的朋友身上。因为如果他们是真朋友，完全可以同时与两个人保持友谊。我知道这有时很难，你会想：他们怎么看不出那人对我做了什么？怎么看不出那人有多恶劣？

You will stay polite. You will keep things neutral. You will focus your energy on the friends who support you. Because if they are still good friends, they can actually be friends with two people at once. I know this is really hard sometimes because you're like, how do you not see what they've done to me and how awful they were to me?

请相信我。他们最终会明白的。一定会明白的。我有个挚友曾与我们共同的朋友闹翻，而我仍与那人保持了一段时间友谊，因为直接断交让我感到不适——那本就不是我的矛盾。

Just trust me. They're gonna figure it out. They will figure it out. I one of my best friends had this falling out with a mutual friend of ours, and I stayed friends with this other person for a little while because it was kind of uncomfortable for me to walk away. It wasn't my fight.

噢，她从未抱怨。她对此非常理解，说'你继续和他们做朋友吧'。而过了一段时间，我就完全明白了他们友谊破裂的原因——这种事情迟早会水落石出。

Oh, she didn't say anything. She was great to me about it. She was like, you stay friends with them. And I figured out exactly after a while what had caused their friendship breakup, you know, sooner soon enough. It always happens.

这是我前几天刚给朋友的建议，她正面临类似群体动态：有人明显不喜欢她，却未直接表态。你要若无其事地应对这些互动。只要对方没当面挑明，哪怕你知道他们在背后议论，那也与你无关。你必须调动全身细胞保持友善，表现得一切如常。对你而言，根本不存在任何问题。

This is is advice I gave to my friend, like, literally the other day, who was dealing with, like, a big group dynamic where one person obviously doesn't like her, but hasn't said anything directly. Approach those interactions like nothing is wrong. If they haven't confronted you, even though you know they're talking about it behind your back, it's still none of your business. I need you to use every fiber in your body to be kind, to be normal. To you, there is no problem.

若对方想摊牌，那很好——但那是他们的事。你要向群体证明，向自己证明：你远比这些闹剧更超脱。这才是处理这种局面最有力的方式。现在，让我们谈谈友谊破裂的问题。

If they wanna bring a problem to you, great, but that's their business. You are showing the group. You are showing yourself that you are bigger than the drama. That is the most powerful way that you can manage the situation. Now let's talk about the friendship breakup.

我感觉我们像是迂回曲折地走到了这个爆发点。我们都知道友谊的破裂不像恋爱分手那样引人注目，但它们带来的痛苦却可能同样深刻。允许自己为此感到悲伤很重要，你有权为这个人哀悼，为你们曾共同期待的未来哀悼——这其实很浪漫，因为友谊有时就是浪漫的，你确实会憧憬未来。

I feel like we've kind of been snaking our way to this moment where the explosion happens. We know that friendship breakups do not get the same attention as romantic breakups, and yet we know they can be just as hard. It's important that you allow yourself to be sad about this. You're allowed to grieve this person and what the future you really thought you had with them might it's so romantic because friendship is romantic at times. You do imagine a future.

但我认为真正令人振奋的是，看到这会为你打开怎样的新空间。有毒的友谊会消耗大量精力，它们占据我们脑海太多时间和空间。所以当它们消散时，那个空间突然又属于你了。好好利用它吧。

But I think it's really refreshing just to see what space that opens up for you. Toxic friendships take up a lot of energy. They take up a lot of time and space in our mind. So when they fade, that space is suddenly yours again. Use it.

给那个失联的老朋友发条消息。加入读书会。参加跑步小组。组织个智力竞赛之夜。报个陶艺班。

Text that old friend that you've lost touch with. Join a book club. Join a run running group. Do a trivia night. Do a pottery class.

重新投入那些让你找回自我的爱好和事物。说实话，这就像分手后的重建——你必须重新策划自己的社交生活。这意味着你可以选择那些让你感觉良好、充满能量、想要更多的事物。失去友谊会严重打击你的自信。

Dive back into your hobbies and the things that make you feel like you again. Honestly, it's like a breakup. After a breakup, you've got to kind of curate your social life all over again. That means you get to choose what feels good, what energizes you, what you want more of. Losing a friendship knocks your confidence so hard.

这种感受充满矛盾。你明知这是最好的结局，却仍会隐隐觉得自己是个坏人，有时还会后悔。所以把所有这些能量重新投资到自己身上真的很有帮助。

It's so conflicting. You know it's for the best. You feel like a bad person implicitly. Sometimes you have regrets. So just investing all of that energy back into yourself can really help.

庆祝这种升级也让人充满力量。我不想显得冷漠或无情，但某种程度上是他们失去了更好的人——他们失去了你，失去了那个给过他们无数次机会、帮他们分析行为、为他们喝彩、爱过他们的人。无论什么原因导致友谊无法继续...

It's also so empowering to celebrate the upgrade. And I don't wanna come across as cold or dismissive or insensitive, but they're kind of losing the better person here. They're losing you. You know, they're losing the person that gave them a bunch of chances, that talked them through their behavior, that celebrated them, that loved them. For whatever reason, the friendship didn't work out.

你们就是不合拍。但这不意味着你没有尽力尝试，也不代表你现在不够优秀。在这段关系里你没有输——你不可能和这辈子遇到的每个人都做一辈子朋友，这其实是种收获。

You guys didn't gel. So that doesn't mean that you didn't try your hardest and that you're not still a catch. You're not losing in this situation. You cannot be friends with every single person you've ever met for the rest of your life. That is actually a gain.

当你意识到有人无法跟上你的情感频率，无法与你同步，不像你在乎他们那样在乎你时，这其实是一种收获。作为一个在青少年时期、大学时代经历过无数次类似遭遇的人，我曾拼命努力想成为人人都想结交的朋友，在友谊中倾注全部心血——为他们的生日精心准备惊喜、主动买单请客、出席他们的比赛并喝彩。但有些人就是不懂得珍惜。

It's a gain when you realize that someone can't keep up with your emotional bandwidth, can't keep up with you, doesn't care about you the way you care about them. As someone who had so many experiences when they were a teenager, when they were younger, when they were in university, where they would try very, very hard. I would always try so hard to be the friend that everyone wanted to be friends with, and I would put so much into my friendships. And I would love them so much and do the exciting things for their birthdays and shout dinners and, you know, be at their runs and celebrate them. Some people just don't appreciate that.

关键在于我等待了很久，现在终于遇到了懂得珍惜的人。所以我可以肯定地告诉你，这样的人确实存在。前段时间我和一个比我年轻许多的亲戚聊天，她正在经历校园生活的艰难时期。我对她说：我完全理解你的感受。我人生前二十年几乎没有任何真正的朋友，只有一个知己。

And the thing is is that I waited a long time, and now I have the people that do. So I can tell you that they're out there. I was talking to, like, a family member of mine who's a bit a lot younger than me, who was, like, going through a really hard time at school. And I just was like, I totally get where you're coming from. I spent, like, the first two decades of my life without any real friends, with, like, one real friend.

但当我二十五六岁时，仿佛一夜之间，优秀的人们纷纷出现在我生命里。就像我在爱情中不愿将就一样，在友情上我也坚持宁缺毋滥。现在我觉得，曾经在友谊中遭受的失望与痛苦都得到了补偿。我深信每个人最终都会等到这样的时刻。

And then suddenly, like, I entered my mid twenties and everyone, like, came out of the woodwork. Everyone was like, I suddenly just met these amazing people. And the same way I didn't settle in a romantic relationship, I didn't settle when it came to my friendships either. And now I just feel like I have been rewarded for for my suffering and for my times when I I didn't get what I wanted in terms of friendship. And I truly believe that that happens for people.

等待真正的友情，就像等待真挚的爱情一样值得。衷心祝愿你好运。希望本期节目能让你更清晰地看待这些关系，明白适时抽身并非坏事，更不会使你成为坏人。没错，那些消耗你的人确实存在，他们很糟糕。

And that holding out for good friends is just, again, like holding out for good relationships. So I'm wishing you the best of luck. I hope this episode has brought you some clarity when it comes to these relationships. I hope it has given you a sense that stepping away is not necessarily a bad thing, is not and does not make you a bad person. And that, yeah, these people exist and they suck.

选择不再和他们做朋友完全没问题。希望本期内容对你有所启发。感谢我们出色的研究员Libby Colbert对本期的贡献。如果你听到这里，请在下方留言，向生活中那个从不带给你负能量的朋友表达爱意吧。

And it's okay to, like, not wanna be friends with them anymore. So I hope this episode helped. I hope you learned something from it. I wanna thank our wonderful, wonderful researcher, Libby Colbert, for her contributions to this episode. If you have made it this far, I want you to leave a little comment down below showing some love for a nontoxic friend in your life.

让我们向世界证明这样的朋友依然存在。我要特别提到我的好友Erin——她就像是这个播客的编外成员，老听众应该经常听到她的名字，她曾两次做客我们的节目。

Let's show people that they still exist. I wanna shout out my friend Erin. Erin is like the other member of this podcast. I feel like if you've been around for a while, you will have heard her name quite a few times. She's been on the podcast, like, twice.

上周末我给Erin制造惊喜时，我们度过了无比美妙的时光。22岁才相识的我们，让我第一次感受到来自非亲属非恋人关系的深厚情谊。这样的朋友确实存在，在此我要向她致敬。

I had such a great weekend with Erin last weekend when I went and surprised her. So I just wanna give a shout out to her. You know, we didn't become friends till I was, like, 22. And I've never felt so much love from another person who I was not, like, either a family member of or dating. So those friends do exist, and I wanna give her a shout out.

希望你能在下方评论区向这样的人表达支持，如果你有此意愿的话。无论你在哪里收听，无论是YouTube、Apple、Spotify还是iHeartRadio应用，请确保你已关注或订阅。若你愿意，别忘了留下五星好评，并在Instagram上关注我们的账号“那个心理学播客”。前几天有人问我为什么不用‘二十几岁的心理学’这个名字，我很确定要么是名字已被占用，要么就是太长了。

And hopefully, you can give a shout out to someone like that in the comments below if you feel called to do so. Make sure that you are following along or subscribed wherever you are listening, whether that is on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, the iHeartRadio app. Make sure to leave a five star review if you feel called to do so, and follow us on Instagram at that psychology podcast. Someone was asking me the other day why it's not the psychology of your twenties. I'm fairly sure either that name was taken or it was just too long.

所以答案就是这样。就叫‘那个心理学播客’。但在下次见面之前，请保持安全，善待他人，在面对可能存在的有毒友谊时也要温柔对待自己。我相信你，我们很快、很快就会再聊。

So there you go. There's your answer. That psychology podcast it is. But until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself in the face of maybe a toxic friendship. I believe in you, and we will talk very, very soon.

嘿，我是Ed Helms，我的播客《Snafu》的主持人，讲述历史上最严重的失误。在新一季中，每一集我们都会带来一个新的‘Snafu’。

Hey. It's Ed Helms, host of Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new Snafu every single episode.

32枚遗失的核武器？等等，停一下，什么？

32 lost nuclear weapons? You're wait. Stop. What?

是的，这将充满历史、幽默和众多出色的嘉宾。Paul Scheer、Angela和Jenna、Nick Kroll、Jordan Klepper。在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的地方收听Ed Helms主持的《Snafu》第四季。

Yeah. It's gonna be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Scheer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan Klepper. Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

艾伯特镇上有一种邪恶的疾病。你必须根除它。深入地下，将其彻底切除。

There's a vile sickness in Abbott's town. You must excise it. Dig into the deep earth and cut it out.

来自iHeart Podcasts和Aaron Mankey的Grim and Mild，这是《Havoc Town》，一部设定在Bridgewater音频宇宙中的新虚构播客，由Jules State和Ray Wise主演。在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的地方收听《Havoc Town》。

From iHeart Podcasts and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey, this is Havoc Town, a new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater audio universe, starring Jules State and Ray Wise. Listen to Havoc Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

大家好，我是安娜·奥尔蒂斯。

Sami gente. It's Ana Ortiz.

我是马克·因德利卡多。

And I'm Mark Indellicado.

你可能认识我们饰演的希尔达

You might know us as Hilda

和贾斯汀。

And Justin.

来自《丑女贝蒂》。欢迎收听我们的新播客《万岁贝蒂》。耶。我们将从头到尾重温这部剧集，深入探讨其中的时尚、戏剧性情节以及

From Ugly Betty. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty. Yay. We're rewatching the series from start to finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama, and

那些你从未听说过的幕后故事。

the behind the scenes moments that you've never heard before.

但你当时还在当酒保吗？

But you were still bartending?

我之前不知道这件事。

I didn't know that.

酒吧那群人像是...那是你吗？

The bar pack is like, is that you?

我带她上了节目，那是给Betty拍的广告。

And I took her on it, and it's a commercial for Betty.

我当时就想我必须辞职。我辞职了。

And I was like I gotta quit. I quit.

收听Viva Betty节目

Listen to Viva Betty on

可在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你获取播客的地方收听。

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我们真的需要又一个高高在上的金融男来教我们怎么花自己的钱吗？不，谢谢。不如来听听《Brown Ambition》吧。每周，我——你们的主持人Mandy Money——都会用大量'我感觉自己很没用'的真实对话给你建议，比如每周五我回答你们的BAQA提问环节。

Do we really need another podcast with a condescending finance bro trying to tell us how to spend our own money? No. Thank you. Instead, check out Brown Ambition. Each week, I, your host, Mandy Money, gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel useless, like on Fridays when I take your questions for the BAQA.

无论你是为未来投资，还是在有毒的工作环境中周旋，我都支持你。请在iHeartRadio应用、苹果播客或任何你获取播客的地方收听《布朗雄心》。

Whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic workplace, I got you. Listen to Brown Ambition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

这是iHeart出品的播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.